CelticsStrong
Around the League => Around the NBA => Topic started by: slightly biased bias fan on December 10, 2017, 09:12:04 PM
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I know everyone now knows that the Harden trade was a huge mistake (probably massive understatement) but I actually wonder what if you could go back in time and resign Harden...but then actually trade away Westbrook.
The Harden trade was obviously to save money and undervaluing Harden's potential, but if they actually kept Harden, in the short term it may have been beneficial (although I am still not convinced they would have beaten the Heat) in the long term I think trading away Westbrook could have saved Scott Brook's job, kept Durant from leaving and saved the OKC franchise from the mess they are now in. Allowing Harden to start and assume the ball handling role would have allowed him to development into the player he is today (perhaps even better) and as we've seen in Houston, Harden is much better at sharing the ball around than Westbrook and at the same time much less enamoured with putting up personal stats, this keeps his team mates much more engaged and this includes Durant. With Westbrook gone, Durant would have become the sudo alpha and with the Thunder becoming 'his team' would have enjoyed playing for Oklahoma more and would have been almost a certainty to resign for the long term. Trading Westbrook at that time would have brought in a treasure trove of assets that could have pushed Thunder towards a title, be it bench depth, a fourth star or a top draft pick the return would have been much higher than an expiring 6th man Harden.
If you think where OKC were in 2010 to now, there is actually a good chance that Paul George will walk and leave the hollow remains of Carmelo Anthony and a selfish stat padder in Westbrook who may be forever stuck in NBA purgatory, unwilling to change.
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Looking back, it really is astounding they were able to draft three players of that level of talent. Durant, Harden, and Westbrook are all bona-fide MVP level superstars. Ironically enough, the huge, somewhat unforeseen at the time, cap increase probably meant OKC could have kept all three for a lot longer than they did.
Hard to say what would have happened if OKC had kept Harden. Maybe they would have eventually traded Westbrook. Maybe Harden never becomes the player he is today, being stuck as the third fiddle behind Durant and Westbrook. Maybe Durant leaves anyway, but OKC still has Harden and Westbrook. Maybe they all just kept progressing as they were and became the most fearsome trio in the league (they were already really close). It's a lot of 'what if's'.
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They let Harden go over 4.5 million dollars. Not a year, in total. There was no hope for a franchise that frugal.
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Looking back, it really is astounding they were able to draft three players of that level of talent. Durant, Harden, and Westbrook are all bona-fide MVP level superstars. Ironically enough, the huge, somewhat unforeseen at the time, cap increase probably meant OKC could have kept all three for a lot longer than they did.
Hard to say what would have happened if OKC had kept Harden. Maybe they would have eventually traded Westbrook. Maybe Harden never becomes the player he is today, being stuck as the third fiddle behind Durant and Westbrook. Maybe Durant leaves anyway, but OKC still has Harden and Westbrook. Maybe they all just kept progressing as they were and became the most fearsome trio in the league (they were already really close). It's a lot of 'what if's'.
I think they could have easily afforded Harden at the time, it was just the ownership not wanting to pay the luxury tax. You're right though that it is amazing how they were able to draft all three, a lot of credit has to go to Presti and his team, given it looks like Harden will win the MVP this season I wonder if three former team mates have ever won MVP's...highly doubtful.
My basic point is that a team consisting of Harden, Durant, Ibaka would be more functional and team oriented than with Westbrook. Can you imagine what they could have traded Westbrook for back in 2011? Anyone not named Kobe Bryant or Lebron James essentially.
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They let Harden go over 4.5 million dollars. Not a year, in total. There was no hope for a franchise that frugal.
The sad irony of this is that Seattle have been dying for a team like this for their entire existence perhaps as a sports city collectively and if it wasn't for their owner wanting a quick buck and selling the Oklahoma buyers, they would have been more profitable and perhaps have had a dynasty in Seattle as the Sonics even without the Stadium upgrade.
Note. Howard Schultz (net worth 3.1 Billion) sold the then Seattle Sonics and Seattle Storm to Clay Bennett and OKC group for 350 Million. Oklahoma is a much smaller market and OKC is currently valued at 1 Billion.
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They chose the worst possible avenue. They could have waited out the following season, see where the team was going, and then decide what to do with their roster. Instead, they panicked and sold Harden for scraps.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't they have afforded to give Harden the max had they just amnestied Perk, who was a terrible fit on that team anyway?
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All this and no mention of Oladipo, who just went for 47 tonight.
Edit: finally read the OP’s post instead of skimming it. Choosing Harden over Westbrook, keeping KD, and getting a treasure trove from Westbrook...
Does NOP trade their 1st overall for Westbrook? That’s Anthony Davis.
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All this and no mention of Oladipo, who just went for 47 tonight.
The whole idea that you could put Oladipo and Westbrook together and have it work well was kind of silly.
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All this and no mention of Oladipo, who just went for 47 tonight.
The whole idea that you could put Oladipo and Westbrook together and have it work well was kind of silly.
Considering the play style yes, but I’d hope you agree it says more about Westbrook than it does Oladipo.
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Okc is garbage and presti is highly overrated. He paired Durant and Westbrook with overrated players in ibaka and Perkins as well as sefolosha. None of these players are relevant anymore. Then out of the 3 superstars drafted, he keeps the worst ball hog and pairs him with another ball hog in Carmelo and an inefficient wing in George as well as a depleted bench. Disaster
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Me too thought that this was about the Oladipo trade( which is currently being won by the Pacers by a mile ).
OKC is going to be a cursed franchise and is resigned to have Westbrook as their franchise player when they could have easily have Durant, Harden, Oladipo trio or could have just kept Ibaka than what they have now who is a good talent but I just could not see myself liking Westbrook's game.
Its turning out to be that Durant made a good decision leaving that dysfunctional franchise at the right moment...PG will leave and Melo will be useless there and yet the management is always praised for pressing the right buttons...well this mess they are in right now is just not one of em.
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I agree with OP about Russ being the "worst" face franchise out of the 3, among him KD & Harden.
"Worst" as there are many teams that would like to have that kind of a flawed, media-darling leader then no such leader at all.
Russ was always the same; magnetic, appearing fearless, nuclear reactor of the energy. Unfortunately, he just doesn't have a championship DNA. He can't play off the ball both on offense and on defense, he can't shoot on spot-ups, has a high TO rate. We could name it as a low BBIQ.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVnMcxw3FZE
Revisionist would say keep KD & Harden, other will figure itself out.
They could have gotten "hills and meadows" in a trade for Russ back then. Enabling a franchise to be a powerhouse (contender) in the long-run.
Having Russ means not having KD and Harden and that's kind of sad for their/his outlook.
P.S. revise the last years MVP disgrace too.
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The Westbrook/Harden thing is interesting to me because they had Reggie Jackson already. They wouldn't have known that he was going to develop as he has but he, I think, would've been a nice compliment to that team as a scoring guard who can bring the ball up but let Harden run the offense. I think that team would've fit together a little better than the one with Westbrook.
It's a good what-if.
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All this and no mention of Oladipo, who just went for 47 tonight.
The whole idea that you could put Oladipo and Westbrook together and have it work well was kind of silly.
Considering the play style yes, but I’d hope you agree it says more about Westbrook than it does Oladipo.
Oladipo is very ball dominant as well. That said, he is basically the same player this year as he was last year (a better 3 ball shooter, but that seems a bit flukey), he just has a much higher USG.
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If I recall correctly, didn't Danny mention that he never wanted to be in a position again where he didn't have the assets to make a trade for a player of Harden's caliber? I guess he would have said the same thing if Westbrook was the one traded. If OKC kept all three players, does Danny ever make the Brooklyn trade? I know Danny mentioned he would have traded Larry and Kevin if he were Red. However, was the inability to trade for Harden the leverage Danny needed to convince ownership to trade Pierce and Garnett?
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If I recall correctly, didn't Danny mention that he never wanted to be in a position again where he didn't have the assets to make a trade for a player of Harden's caliber? I guess he would have said the same thing if Westbrook was the one traded. If OKC kept all three players, does Danny ever make the Brooklyn trade? I know Danny mentioned he would have traded Larry and Kevin if he were Red. However, was the inability to trade for Harden the leverage Danny needed to convince ownership to trade Pierce and Garnett?
Its funny you mention that, because Harden wouldn't have ever been traded if the CP3 trade wasn't vetoed. Kevin Martin was the main return that OKC was eyeing, along with the 2 picks and Jeremy Lamb, (who they believed could eventually replace Harden's input and usage.) The NBA is crazy sometimes.