CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Roy H. on December 07, 2017, 12:03:50 PM
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BOSTON – A picture of Gordon Hayward without a boot on his left leg, posted by his wife Robyn, sent Celtics Nation into a brief tizzy that maybe, just maybe, the season-ending ankle injury he suffered five minutes into the opener may not be season-ending after all.
Danny Ainge -- while stressing the recuperation timetable hasn't changed -- says Hayward "deep inside . . . wants to come faster than anybody has from this kind of injury."
"He's got a competitive streak to him and he's asking lots of questions," Ainge said Thursday morning on 98.5 The Sports Hub's Toucher & Rich. "He's diligent in his rebab. I know what's going on his mind, but I don't think he'll say anything about how fast he wants to get back."
Officially, however, he's still on pace for a 2018-19 comeback.
"He can take the boot off for short periods of time," Ainge said. "But yeah, he's doing really well. His therapy is going great. He's right on schedule. He's sometimes doing two workouts a day, trying to get stronger. The next phase is getting out of the boot completely, but I still think that's a couple weeks away, from being permanently out of the boot."
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Good luck on the recovery Gordon.
We'll need you for the ECF series vs Cleveland! 8)
Even if it's from a wheelchair, off the bench, you're 20 PPG will come in handy! :laugh:
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I bet he will be back.
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I'm guessing he will be healed in time to return at some point this spring, but have a hard time believing the team will allow him to play knowing the mental and physical risks that will be associated with such an early return.
Fingers crossed for an April miracle!
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I bet he will be back.
A third of the season gone and his team still with the league’s best record. I’m sure he was already incredibly motivated to get back, but it’s a special season he doesn’t want to miss out on. It’s a tough rehab, and the team’s success should help him get through the rough days. There’s something worth coming back for as soon as possible.
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Would be awesome if he could play this year. But only if he's back to full strength and entirely ready in mind and body. The only thing worse than that injury would be an unnecessary re-injury.
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Even if Hayward comes back for the playoffs, we can't expect him to play like a star. I'd just as soon he sit this one out.
That said, it's great news that a return is even on the table. The smoother the recovery, the less risk that his athleticism will suffer in the long run.
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I bet he will be back.
A third of the season gone and his team still with the league’s best record. I’m sure he was already incredibly motivated to get back, but it’s a special season he doesn’t want to miss out on. It’s a tough rehab, and the team’s success should help him get through the rough days. There’s something worth coming back for as soon as possible.
Yeah, I mean, even if it's for only ~15 MPG or so for April/the playoffs, the team would LOVE to have him and he would want nothing more than to be a part of this surprising season.
When a player makes a decision as big as the one he made this past offseason, uprooting his family in the process, and only gets to play 5 minutes with his new team, I would imagine he would do everything possible to avoid waiting until October to play real basketball again.
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I hope he starts to be more “part of the team” and seen at games as the season progresses.
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I'm guessing he will be healed in time to return at some point this spring, but have a hard time believing the team will allow him to play knowing the mental and physical risks that will be associated with such an early return.
Fingers crossed for an April miracle!
Heck, I'll take mid-May.
Fingers are crossed that we shouldn't really need him before then anyway.
Don't think we should throw him fully back in and risk his body/mess up our chemistry. But for 15min off the bench....I have to think he'll be a better option than Semi and/or Rozier 6 months from now.
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I bet he will be back.
A third of the season gone and his team still with the league’s best record. I’m sure he was already incredibly motivated to get back, but it’s a special season he doesn’t want to miss out on. It’s a tough rehab, and the team’s success should help him get through the rough days. There’s something worth coming back for as soon as possible.
Yeah, I mean, even if it's for only ~15 MPG or so for April/the playoffs, the team would LOVE to have him and he would want nothing more than to be a part of this surprising season.
When a player makes a decision as big as the one he made this past offseason, uprooting his family in the process, and only gets to play 5 minutes with his new team, I would imagine he would do everything possible to avoid waiting until October to play real basketball again.
If he comes back for the playoffs he should/will be restricted to those minutes, 15-20, off the bench and then maybe some crunch time minutes. He shouldn't rush it and I would make sure every doctor is on board with this before giving him a green light.
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Even if Hayward comes back for the playoffs, we can't expect him to play like a star. I'd just as soon he sit this one out.
That said, it's great news that a return is even on the table. The smoother the recovery, the less risk that his athleticism will suffer in the long run.
I don't think anyone is expecting a star. But if he's healthy, and the risks are low, as long as he's better than the next guy then why not have him back?
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About the picture - I read that this is Kind of means nothing. He may have just taken a shower or In a rehab where he has to take it off periodically
Edit - just read what ainge said. Good stuff I figured he still wore the boot
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Even if Hayward comes back for the playoffs, we can't expect him to play like a star. I'd just as soon he sit this one out.
That said, it's great news that a return is even on the table. The smoother the recovery, the less risk that his athleticism will suffer in the long run.
I don't think anyone is expecting a star. But if he's healthy, and the risks are low, as long as he's better than the next guy then why not have him back?
agreed, if he's healthy. restrict him to coming off the bench to ensure he plays limited minutes. imagine having a second unit with him and possibly Morris (depending on who starts between Morris and Baynes) with Theis, Smart and Rozier. that second unit would be better than some teams' starting line-ups. should be able to do a tune on the bench brigade of other teams.
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When George came back from a similar injury, he played 15 minutes a game in 6 games with 9 points, 4 rebounds, 1 assist, and 1 steal on 37, 41, 73 shooting percentages.
Expect a similar struggle. Getting feel and playing speed back takes time. That being said, I'd love to have him work his way back on the court. He'd still give us positive help.
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I bet he will be back.
A third of the season gone and his team still with the league’s best record. I’m sure he was already incredibly motivated to get back, but it’s a special season he doesn’t want to miss out on. It’s a tough rehab, and the team’s success should help him get through the rough days. There’s something worth coming back for as soon as possible.
Yeah, I mean, even if it's for only ~15 MPG or so for April/the playoffs, the team would LOVE to have him and he would want nothing more than to be a part of this surprising season.
When a player makes a decision as big as the one he made this past offseason, uprooting his family in the process, and only gets to play 5 minutes with his new team, I would imagine he would do everything possible to avoid waiting until October to play real basketball again.
If he comes back for the playoffs he should/will be restricted to those minutes, 15-20, off the bench and then maybe some crunch time minutes. He shouldn't rush it and I would make sure every doctor is on board with this before giving him a green light.
Why? There should be no pre-ordained restriction. If he can play 15 safely, then he should play 15. But if he can play 25, then he should get those minutes. If he can play even more, then so be it.
I don’t understand the desire for people here to put him on a minutes restriction just because. Certainly the Celtics won’t ask him to do more than he’s able. That would be foolish. But next in line for foolishness is asking him to do less than he’s able.
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Even if Hayward comes back for the playoffs, we can't expect him to play like a star. I'd just as soon he sit this one out.
That said, it's great news that a return is even on the table. The smoother the recovery, the less risk that his athleticism will suffer in the long run.
I don't think anyone is expecting a star. But if he's healthy, and the risks are low, as long as he's better than the next guy then why not have him back?
Yes, he can have Semi's minutes.
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I bet he will be back.
A third of the season gone and his team still with the league’s best record. I’m sure he was already incredibly motivated to get back, but it’s a special season he doesn’t want to miss out on. It’s a tough rehab, and the team’s success should help him get through the rough days. There’s something worth coming back for as soon as possible.
Yeah, I mean, even if it's for only ~15 MPG or so for April/the playoffs, the team would LOVE to have him and he would want nothing more than to be a part of this surprising season.
When a player makes a decision as big as the one he made this past offseason, uprooting his family in the process, and only gets to play 5 minutes with his new team, I would imagine he would do everything possible to avoid waiting until October to play real basketball again.
If he comes back for the playoffs he should/will be restricted to those minutes, 15-20, off the bench and then maybe some crunch time minutes. He shouldn't rush it and I would make sure every doctor is on board with this before giving him a green light.
Why? There should be no pre-ordained restriction. If he can play 15 safely, then he should play 15. But if he can play 25, then he should get those minutes. If he can play even more, then so be it.
I don’t understand the desire for people here to put him on a minutes restriction just because. Certainly the Celtics won’t ask him to do more than he’s able. That would be foolish. But next in line for foolishness is asking him to do less than he’s able.
Only because he's had training camp for action since last year. Why push him, even if he gets himself in great shape? You see how they've brought Morris along slowly. I would expect the same for GH, especially if he comes back only for the playoffs. Expecting more is not realistic.
I guess we'll have to wait until we get more news on his recovery and timetable for return before discussing his minutes and how he should fit in or this is going to get stupid as you may expect his return in April while others may expect him only for the playoffs. I'm currently in the latter group.
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I hope his first game back is against Cleveland in the playoffs, and the first time he touches the ball, he drills a 3 in Crowder’s face.
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His first game has to be game 7 nba finals vs warriors. He hits the game winning buzzer beater
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I would just be happy with Gordon being in sweats with the rest of the bench guys waving towels and cheering his teammates on in the playoffs. Anything else will be ice cream on the cake.
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His first game has to be game 7 nba finals vs warriors. He hits the game winning buzzer beater
and then pulls a Paul Pierce quote "THIS IS WHY I'M HERE!"
also redeem himself that Brad and him talk about all the time back when he missed the game winner in Butler
definitely gonna make it very sweet
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When George came back from a similar injury, he played 15 minutes a game in 6 games with 9 points, 4 rebounds, 1 assist, and 1 steal on 37, 41, 73 shooting percentages.
Expect a similar struggle. Getting feel and playing speed back takes time. That being said, I'd love to have him work his way back on the court. He'd still give us positive help.
Would have been interesting to see what would happen if the Pacers made the playoffs that year (and actually advanced), if George's minutes would have increased or not, especially in later rounds.
Pacers were 1.5 games behind the C's for the 8th seed when George came back and then went on to win 5 of their last 6. Despite his lackluster stats, George definitely seemed to give the Pacers a boost. Unfortunately for them, but lucky for us, the C's went on a 6 game winning streak to close the season so the Pacers couldn't gain any ground on Boston, and ended up losing the tie breaker with Brooklyn for the 8th seed.
And it's not like the Pacers would have been doomed to a LeBron sweep in the 1st round (as we got those honors instead), but would have faced a 60 win Atlanta team. Pacers could have made some noise too, especially if George was able to step up a little more, a 38 win Brooklyn team took them to 6 games after all.
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When George came back from a similar injury, he played 15 minutes a game in 6 games with 9 points, 4 rebounds, 1 assist, and 1 steal on 37, 41, 73 shooting percentages.
Expect a similar struggle. Getting feel and playing speed back takes time. That being said, I'd love to have him work his way back on the court. He'd still give us positive help.
Would have been interesting to see what would happen if the Pacers made the playoffs that year (and actually advanced), if George's minutes would have increased or not, especially in later rounds.
Pacers were 1.5 games behind the C's for the 8th seed when George came back and then went on to win 5 of their last 6. Despite his lackluster stats, George definitely seemed to give the Pacers a boost. Unfortunately for them, but lucky for us, the C's went on a 6 game winning streak to close the season so the Pacers couldn't gain any ground on Boston, and ended up losing the tie breaker with Brooklyn for the 8th seed.
And it's not look the Pacers would have been doomed to a LeBron sweep in the 1st round (as we got those honors instead), but would have faced a 60 win Atlanta team. Pacers could have made some noise too, especially if George was able to step up a little more, a 38 win Brooklyn team took them to 6 games after all.
Or we could have missed the playoffs and ended up with Turner or Winslow in the draft (of course no Rozier in that scenario).
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Happy to hear that everything is coming along like it should. I still don’t think he’ll play this year and I’m ok with that. I do not want to rush him at all and the guy we get back at the end of this season if rushed wouldn’t be the guy we’ll have next year when he’s really 100% anyway. I see no reason to rush anything.
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Out of the boot for short periods of time, huh?
(https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-05-2016/ZfGxxx.gif)
Get his uniform ready.
Coach Stevens will manage his minutes appropriately.
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We will need any help from Hayward against Cavs later and I'm sure that if he's ready he'll be on the court without any restrictions. IMO, eventual struggles in case he's back, will only be his mental shape and fear of reinjury.
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I hope his first game back is against Cleveland in the playoffs, and the first time he touches the ball, he drills a 3 in Crowder’s face.
I don't want Crowder anywhere near Hayward. Otherwise, I agree with everything you said.
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Its really up to Hayward. ALl indications after the injury were it was a 5-6month injury that would put hayward right at that March date to be 100%
If he is 100% and MENTALLY wants to be on the court and play, then I see no reason not to ease him in with 15mpg to start getting acclimated back to the NBA.
it sounds like from Ainges interview Hayward is motivated to make his way back to the court
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sounds like he ll be on the bench cheering them on at least.
Great news
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Its really up to Hayward. ALl indications after the injury were it was a 5-6month injury that would put hayward right at that March date to be 100%
If he is 100% and MENTALLY wants to be on the court and play, then I see no reason not to ease him in with 15mpg to start getting acclimated back to the NBA.
it sounds like from Ainges interview Hayward is motivated to make his way back to the court
Ainge was early on the sleep-deprivation discussions and changing when the C’s held practice, etc.
I imagine he’ll have a psychiatrist work with Hayward on the mental part just as much as the trainers will work on the physical part. He may have a little PTSD and working through that is probably high on Ainge’s to do list.
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Boston sports tonight, 12/12 Michael Holley reports that Brad Stevens's said he may have his walking boot off this Wednesday :)
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When George came back from a similar injury, he played 15 minutes a game in 6 games with 9 points, 4 rebounds, 1 assist, and 1 steal on 37, 41, 73 shooting percentages.
Expect a similar struggle. Getting feel and playing speed back takes time. That being said, I'd love to have him work his way back on the court. He'd still give us positive help.
Would have been interesting to see what would happen if the Pacers made the playoffs that year (and actually advanced), if George's minutes would have increased or not, especially in later rounds.
Pacers were 1.5 games behind the C's for the 8th seed when George came back and then went on to win 5 of their last 6. Despite his lackluster stats, George definitely seemed to give the Pacers a boost. Unfortunately for them, but lucky for us, the C's went on a 6 game winning streak to close the season so the Pacers couldn't gain any ground on Boston, and ended up losing the tie breaker with Brooklyn for the 8th seed.
And it's not like the Pacers would have been doomed to a LeBron sweep in the 1st round (as we got those honors instead), but would have faced a 60 win Atlanta team. Pacers could have made some noise too, especially if George was able to step up a little more, a 38 win Brooklyn team took them to 6 games after all.
I mean, I would be pretty happy if Hayward could give us that stat line in his first six games. Then I would expect him to get better the more games he played.
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He could lose the boot today:
https://t.co/Ms7f60vEqy
Anyone notice Gordon recovery news has picked up steadily recently? Wonder if he’s recovering quicker than expected
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Get him back by late March or early April. Bench him and limit him for precautious reasons. Need him 100% for next season.
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Get him back by late March or early April. Bench him and limit him for precautious reasons. Need him 100% for next season.
If we're thinking about next season then why bring him back at all?
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He could lose the boot today:
https://t.co/Ms7f60vEqy
Anyone notice Gordon recovery news has picked up steadily recently? Wonder if he’s recovering quicker than expected
Even if he is not recovering faster than planned, hopefully the reports are putting enough fear into teams like the Cavs to make a panic trade well before the deadline.
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I think what's best for Hayward -- probably returning next season -- is what's best for the Celtics. We're not beating GSW in a 7 game series, so rushing him back for essentially nothing more than risk of further complications doesn't make sense to me.
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I think what's best for Hayward -- probably returning next season -- is what's best for the Celtics. We're not beating GSW in a 7 game series, so rushing him back for essentially nothing more than risk of further complications doesn't make sense to me.
Well if the medical staff determine he is in good enough shape to not have to worry about causing complications with the injury, then he should play. But otherwise, I agree. We aren't winning anything this year, especially with the bench constructed like it is. Let Gordon get back into fantastic shape, practice with the team this summer and get going next year with a more experienced and possibly reconstructed bench.
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I think what's best for Hayward -- probably returning next season -- is what's best for the Celtics. We're not beating GSW in a 7 game series, so rushing him back for essentially nothing more than risk of further complications doesn't make sense to me.
Well if the medical staff determine he is in good enough shape to not have to worry about causing complications with the injury, then he should play. But otherwise, I agree. We aren't winning anything this year, especially with the bench constructed like it is. Let Gordon get back into fantastic shape, practice with the team this summer and get going next year with a more experienced and possibly reconstructed bench.
Yeah, makes sense to me too. Interesting side note--I've read that such an injury does not increase the risk of breaking the same bone again. Seems hard to believe, but apparently true. i wonder if the psychological aspects are the biggest hurdle to optimal recovery.
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I think what's best for Hayward -- probably returning next season -- is what's best for the Celtics. We're not beating GSW in a 7 game series, so rushing him back for essentially nothing more than risk of further complications doesn't make sense to me.
Well if the medical staff determine he is in good enough shape to not have to worry about causing complications with the injury, then he should play. But otherwise, I agree. We aren't winning anything this year, especially with the bench constructed like it is. Let Gordon get back into fantastic shape, practice with the team this summer and get going next year with a more experienced and possibly reconstructed bench.
Yeah, makes sense to me too. Interesting side note--I've read that such an injury does not increase the risk of breaking the same bone again. Seems hard to believe, but apparently true. i wonder if the psychological aspects are the biggest hurdle to optimal recovery.
Gotta think that the psychological aspect is the biggest hurdle to overcome. Bones heal permanently and become stronger after a break. Its the tendon tears and ripping from the bone that are most likely to set back injuries and from what I heard that wasn't a problem with Hayward.
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I think what's best for Hayward -- probably returning next season -- is what's best for the Celtics. We're not beating GSW in a 7 game series, so rushing him back for essentially nothing more than risk of further complications doesn't make sense to me.
Well if the medical staff determine he is in good enough shape to not have to worry about causing complications with the injury, then he should play. But otherwise, I agree. We aren't winning anything this year, especially with the bench constructed like it is. Let Gordon get back into fantastic shape, practice with the team this summer and get going next year with a more experienced and possibly reconstructed bench.
Wait so you are 100% confident a team that has the second best record in basketball and has an open roster space to add a piece or two at the deadline "isn't winning anything" even if we add an all-star for the playoffs?
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I think what's best for Hayward -- probably returning next season -- is what's best for the Celtics. We're not beating GSW in a 7 game series, so rushing him back for essentially nothing more than risk of further complications doesn't make sense to me.
Well if the medical staff determine he is in good enough shape to not have to worry about causing complications with the injury, then he should play. But otherwise, I agree. We aren't winning anything this year, especially with the bench constructed like it is. Let Gordon get back into fantastic shape, practice with the team this summer and get going next year with a more experienced and possibly reconstructed bench.
Wait so you are 100% confident a team that has the second best record in basketball and has an open roster space to add a piece or two at the deadline "isn't winning anything" even if we add an all-star for the playoffs?
Yup. GSW is just too good and we simply aren't better than Cleveland, especially with a healthy IT. And, I don't expect Hayward to return at All-Star quality if he returns this year. We might and hopefully make the ECF but we aren't going any farther than that.
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Get him back by late March or early April. Bench him and limit him for precautious reasons. Need him 100% for next season.
If we're thinking about next season then why bring him back at all?
I think having Hayward see the court this season, assuming he is 100% physically ready, would be a positive going into the off season and he would be better off for it next season. That is not a reason to rush him back in any way but playing some I think would have tangible benefit to him.
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I think what's best for Hayward -- probably returning next season -- is what's best for the Celtics. We're not beating GSW in a 7 game series, so rushing him back for essentially nothing more than risk of further complications doesn't make sense to me.
Well if the medical staff determine he is in good enough shape to not have to worry about causing complications with the injury, then he should play. But otherwise, I agree. We aren't winning anything this year, especially with the bench constructed like it is. Let Gordon get back into fantastic shape, practice with the team this summer and get going next year with a more experienced and possibly reconstructed bench.
Wait so you are 100% confident a team that has the second best record in basketball and has an open roster space to add a piece or two at the deadline "isn't winning anything" even if we add an all-star for the playoffs?
Yup. GSW is just too good and we simply aren't better than Cleveland, especially with a healthy IT. And, I don't expect Hayward to return at All-Star quality if he returns this year. We might and hopefully make the ECF but we aren't going any farther than that.
Yeah, why even play any games at all? Or at the very least, just sit Irving, Hayward, Horford, Brown, Tatum, etc until a year or two when we might be able to compete. No need to waste anybody’s energy or time with actually trying to win basketball games now - just seems foolish... ::)
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I think what's best for Hayward -- probably returning next season -- is what's best for the Celtics. We're not beating GSW in a 7 game series, so rushing him back for essentially nothing more than risk of further complications doesn't make sense to me.
Well if the medical staff determine he is in good enough shape to not have to worry about causing complications with the injury, then he should play. But otherwise, I agree. We aren't winning anything this year, especially with the bench constructed like it is. Let Gordon get back into fantastic shape, practice with the team this summer and get going next year with a more experienced and possibly reconstructed bench.
Wait so you are 100% confident a team that has the second best record in basketball and has an open roster space to add a piece or two at the deadline "isn't winning anything" even if we add an all-star for the playoffs?
Yup. GSW is just too good and we simply aren't better than Cleveland, especially with a healthy IT. And, I don't expect Hayward to return at All-Star quality if he returns this year. We might and hopefully make the ECF but we aren't going any farther than that.
Yeah, why even play any games at all? Or at the very least, just sit Irving, Hayward, Horford, Brown, Tatum, etc until a year or two when we might be able to compete. No need to waste anybody’s energy or time with actually trying to win basketball games now - just seems foolish... ::)
No need to take it to such an extreme or call my POV foolish. So I am not as bullish on this team as presently constructed or because of the amount of inexperienced youth. So I think we are one more year away from being a legitimate contender. Nothing wrong with that.
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I think what's best for Hayward -- probably returning next season -- is what's best for the Celtics. We're not beating GSW in a 7 game series, so rushing him back for essentially nothing more than risk of further complications doesn't make sense to me.
Well if the medical staff determine he is in good enough shape to not have to worry about causing complications with the injury, then he should play. But otherwise, I agree. We aren't winning anything this year, especially with the bench constructed like it is. Let Gordon get back into fantastic shape, practice with the team this summer and get going next year with a more experienced and possibly reconstructed bench.
Wait so you are 100% confident a team that has the second best record in basketball and has an open roster space to add a piece or two at the deadline "isn't winning anything" even if we add an all-star for the playoffs?
Yup. GSW is just too good and we simply aren't better than Cleveland, especially with a healthy IT. And, I don't expect Hayward to return at All-Star quality if he returns this year. We might and hopefully make the ECF but we aren't going any farther than that.
Yeah, why even play any games at all? Or at the very least, just sit Irving, Hayward, Horford, Brown, Tatum, etc until a year or two when we might be able to compete. No need to waste anybody’s energy or time with actually trying to win basketball games now - just seems foolish... ::)
No need to take it to such an extreme or call my POV foolish. So I am not as bullish on this team as presently constructed or because of the amount of inexperienced youth. So I think we are one more year away from being a legitimate contender. Nothing wrong with that.
Right, I feel the exact same way. And as of now, we appear to be the team in the best position to contend for many years to come. Couldn't have a brighter future, it's just not quite our time. But this season is also an incredible opportunity for Jaylen and Jason to develop.
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Well, as we all know too well, dating back to the great teams of the 80's, that injuries happen and sometimes to more than one key player. There's no guarantee that GSW are going to be healthy all season. Curry is out now and who knows what can happen at any time. That's why they play the games. If Curry or Durant get injured do we still have no shot? I think we do, especially if GH comes back, we stay healthy and we beat Cleveland in the ECF.
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NBC Sports just posted a clip of Hayward out of the boot. Looks like he got cleared. Really happy for him. He must feel great
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I think what's best for Hayward -- probably returning next season -- is what's best for the Celtics. We're not beating GSW in a 7 game series, so rushing him back for essentially nothing more than risk of further complications doesn't make sense to me.
Well if the medical staff determine he is in good enough shape to not have to worry about causing complications with the injury, then he should play. But otherwise, I agree. We aren't winning anything this year, especially with the bench constructed like it is. Let Gordon get back into fantastic shape, practice with the team this summer and get going next year with a more experienced and possibly reconstructed bench.
Correct. The fact of the matter is Hayward will always be at some risk for future injury. But at some point that is low enough that playing in an NBA game is worth it. It is possible that could be this year.
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I think what's best for Hayward -- probably returning next season -- is what's best for the Celtics. We're not beating GSW in a 7 game series, so rushing him back for essentially nothing more than risk of further complications doesn't make sense to me.
Well if the medical staff determine he is in good enough shape to not have to worry about causing complications with the injury, then he should play. But otherwise, I agree. We aren't winning anything this year, especially with the bench constructed like it is. Let Gordon get back into fantastic shape, practice with the team this summer and get going next year with a more experienced and possibly reconstructed bench.
Yeah, makes sense to me too. Interesting side note--I've read that such an injury does not increase the risk of breaking the same bone again. Seems hard to believe, but apparently true. i wonder if the psychological aspects are the biggest hurdle to optimal recovery.
Gotta think that the psychological aspect is the biggest hurdle to overcome. Bones heal permanently and become stronger after a break. Its the tendon tears and ripping from the bone that are most likely to set back injuries and from what I heard that wasn't a problem with Hayward.
His biggest issue will be that his calf has atrophied from non-use for 2 months.
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His biggest issue will be that his calf has atrophied from non-use for 2 months.
I honestly don’t think that’s a big deal. I only have anecdotal evidence, but the couple times I’ve been in a walking boot no serious atrophy happened after only 2 months.
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NBC Sports just posted a clip of Hayward out of the boot. Looks like he got cleared. Really happy for him. He must feel great
the road to returning officially begins
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I think what's best for Hayward -- probably returning next season -- is what's best for the Celtics. We're not beating GSW in a 7 game series, so rushing him back for essentially nothing more than risk of further complications doesn't make sense to me.
Well if the medical staff determine he is in good enough shape to not have to worry about causing complications with the injury, then he should play. But otherwise, I agree. We aren't winning anything this year, especially with the bench constructed like it is. Let Gordon get back into fantastic shape, practice with the team this summer and get going next year with a more experienced and possibly reconstructed bench.
Wait so you are 100% confident a team that has the second best record in basketball and has an open roster space to add a piece or two at the deadline "isn't winning anything" even if we add an all-star for the playoffs?
Yup. GSW is just too good and we simply aren't better than Cleveland, especially with a healthy IT. And, I don't expect Hayward to return at All-Star quality if he returns this year. We might and hopefully make the ECF but we aren't going any farther than that.
Yeah, why even play any games at all? Or at the very least, just sit Irving, Hayward, Horford, Brown, Tatum, etc until a year or two when we might be able to compete. No need to waste anybody’s energy or time with actually trying to win basketball games now - just seems foolish... ::)
No need to take it to such an extreme or call my POV foolish. So I am not as bullish on this team as presently constructed or because of the amount of inexperienced youth. So I think we are one more year away from being a legitimate contender. Nothing wrong with that.
Right, I feel the exact same way. And as of now, we appear to be the team in the best position to contend for many years to come. Couldn't have a brighter future, it's just not quite our time. But this season is also an incredible opportunity for Jaylen and Jason to develop.
I agree with you guys that it would seem unlikely we beat Golden State, but we are definitely a top 5 team in the league and we have flexibility to fortify our bench at the trade deadline and with buyouts. I don't really get acting like Cleveland will clearly beat us, especially if we have Hayward back.
I know not everyone thinks this, but Cleveland's biggest problem is far and away defense and IT actually makes that a bigger problem for them. I also am very very confident that if we played them in a playoff series Stevens would exploit him on defense to the point that they would have to consider benching him and that is IF he can even get close to his athleticism prior to going 7 months without being in NBA action.
If you have a legit chance to get to the finals (which just about everyone has Boston Golden as the 2nd or third likeliest matchup), you don't act like you have no chance of winning the championship.
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I think what's best for Hayward -- probably returning next season -- is what's best for the Celtics. We're not beating GSW in a 7 game series, so rushing him back for essentially nothing more than risk of further complications doesn't make sense to me.
Well if the medical staff determine he is in good enough shape to not have to worry about causing complications with the injury, then he should play. But otherwise, I agree. We aren't winning anything this year, especially with the bench constructed like it is. Let Gordon get back into fantastic shape, practice with the team this summer and get going next year with a more experienced and possibly reconstructed bench.
Yeah, makes sense to me too. Interesting side note--I've read that such an injury does not increase the risk of breaking the same bone again. Seems hard to believe, but apparently true. i wonder if the psychological aspects are the biggest hurdle to optimal recovery.
Gotta think that the psychological aspect is the biggest hurdle to overcome. Bones heal permanently and become stronger after a break. Its the tendon tears and ripping from the bone that are most likely to set back injuries and from what I heard that wasn't a problem with Hayward.
His biggest issue will be that his calf has atrophied from non-use for 2 months.
yeah, the most common post injuries are muscle related, like a bad hammy or a calf or quad.
we can debate all year long but the fact is that the both sides will have to be convinced that he is ready in order for him to play. i'd say it's around 70:30 in favor of him not playing, aldo you can count me in for that 30. I think there is plenty of time for him to recover and get in shape.
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His biggest issue will be that his calf has atrophied from non-use for 2 months.
I honestly don’t think that’s a big deal. I only have anecdotal evidence, but the couple times I’ve been in a walking boot no serious atrophy happened after only 2 months.
Trust me, that will be his biggest issue.
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His biggest issue will be that his calf has atrophied from non-use for 2 months.
I honestly don’t think that’s a big deal. I only have anecdotal evidence, but the couple times I’ve been in a walking boot no serious atrophy happened after only 2 months.
Trust me, that will be his biggest issue.
Well that depends, if they have been using NMES, (neuromuscular electrical simulation) Which would help with that. So then Ankle stiffness could be a big issue, and it's been reported that lateral movement will be the last thing to come out side mentally trusting his leg. Could have some atrophy in the leg since he hasn't been using it normally. While its more common for that kind of injury to have atrophy, it could be a number of things, all depends on his treatments, which he's going to have better than we would ever get.
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he is young . If he was 50 it would take twice as long
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Forsberg
Celtics forward Gordon Hayward did indeed get out of his waking boot today. No guarantee he stays out, depending on how his foot reacts, but he’s hopeful he’s done with it. Said Hayward: “Today has been awesome without the boot.”
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His biggest issue will be that his calf has atrophied from non-use for 2 months.
I honestly don’t think that’s a big deal. I only have anecdotal evidence, but the couple times I’ve been in a walking boot no serious atrophy happened after only 2 months.
Trust me, that will be his biggest issue.
Well that depends, if they have been using NMES, (neuromuscular electrical simulation) Which would help with that. So then Ankle stiffness could be a big issue, and it's been reported that lateral movement will be the last thing to come out side mentally trusting his leg. Could have some atrophy in the leg since he hasn't been using it normally. While its more common for that kind of injury to have atrophy, it could be a number of things, all depends on his treatments, which he's going to have better than we would ever get.
From the video his leg didn't appear smaller. Perhaps it is, but the difference isn't visibly apparent.
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Yeah, why even play any games at all? Or at the very least, just sit Irving, Hayward, Horford, Brown, Tatum, etc until a year or two when we might be able to compete. No need to waste anybody’s energy or time with actually trying to win basketball games now - just seems foolish... ::)
No need to take it to such an extreme or call my POV foolish. So I am not as bullish on this team as presently constructed or because of the amount of inexperienced youth. So I think we are one more year away from being a legitimate contender. Nothing wrong with that.
I didn't mean it that way - 'foolish' was in relation to sarcastically resting our players, not anything to do with your post.
It's just that you so matter-of-factly stated that we have no chance of getting past Cleveland in the ECF, nevermind competing in the Finals. There is a reason they play the games in the NBA and, as CClay stated, we are one of the top teams in the whole league and are slated to get a good player with the DPE, possibly another Vet Min signing, and [of course] a decent possibility we get our max All-Star back before the playoffs.
A lot of people watch every game and/or even have season tickets - let's just have a little more of an open mind with how things could turn out.
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Yeah, why even play any games at all? Or at the very least, just sit Irving, Hayward, Horford, Brown, Tatum, etc until a year or two when we might be able to compete. No need to waste anybody’s energy or time with actually trying to win basketball games now - just seems foolish... ::)
No need to take it to such an extreme or call my POV foolish. So I am not as bullish on this team as presently constructed or because of the amount of inexperienced youth. So I think we are one more year away from being a legitimate contender. Nothing wrong with that.
I didn't mean it that way - 'foolish' was in relation to sarcastically resting our players, not anything to do with your post.
It's just that you so matter-of-factly stated that we have no chance of getting past Cleveland in the ECF, nevermind competing in the Finals. There is a reason they play the games in the NBA and, as CClay stated, we are one of the top teams in the whole league and are slated to get a good player with the DPE, possibly another Vet Min signing, and [of course] a decent possibility we get our max All-Star back before the playoffs.
A lot of people watch every game and/or even have season tickets - let's just have a little more of an open mind with how things could turn out.
I really can't understand how people can say we won't win anything this year when we are the second likeliest finals matchup in the entire league according to Vegas... What would your feelings be if we were the hawks, knicks or magic?
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Yeah, why even play any games at all? Or at the very least, just sit Irving, Hayward, Horford, Brown, Tatum, etc until a year or two when we might be able to compete. No need to waste anybody’s energy or time with actually trying to win basketball games now - just seems foolish... ::)
No need to take it to such an extreme or call my POV foolish. So I am not as bullish on this team as presently constructed or because of the amount of inexperienced youth. So I think we are one more year away from being a legitimate contender. Nothing wrong with that.
I didn't mean it that way - 'foolish' was in relation to sarcastically resting our players, not anything to do with your post.
It's just that you so matter-of-factly stated that we have no chance of getting past Cleveland in the ECF, nevermind competing in the Finals. There is a reason they play the games in the NBA and, as CClay stated, we are one of the top teams in the whole league and are slated to get a good player with the DPE, possibly another Vet Min signing, and [of course] a decent possibility we get our max All-Star back before the playoffs.
A lot of people watch every game and/or even have season tickets - let's just have a little more of an open mind with how things could turn out.
I really can't understand how people can say we won't win anything this year when we are the second likeliest finals matchup in the entire league according to Vegas... What would your feelings be if we were the hawks, knicks or magic?
Clay, I'm with you. I think a lot of fans are keeping their feelings measured/protected, so that if we lose in conference finals to Cavs, they won't be too disappointed. While I agree with them that the Cavs should be favored against us, especially after Thompson and IT return, it is not at all out of the realm of possibility that we can beat them. As for the Warriors, we just beat them on our home court, and did not play that well. Why is it so far fetched that we can make it a very good series vs. them? Frankly, I feel we match up better against them than we do against the Cavs.
Biggest issue for us right now is the uncertainty concerning Morris' return. If he is done for the season (have not heard that he is, but you have to start wondering), it will be very, very tough to play the Cavs competitively.
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Yeah, why even play any games at all? Or at the very least, just sit Irving, Hayward, Horford, Brown, Tatum, etc until a year or two when we might be able to compete. No need to waste anybody’s energy or time with actually trying to win basketball games now - just seems foolish... ::)
No need to take it to such an extreme or call my POV foolish. So I am not as bullish on this team as presently constructed or because of the amount of inexperienced youth. So I think we are one more year away from being a legitimate contender. Nothing wrong with that.
I didn't mean it that way - 'foolish' was in relation to sarcastically resting our players, not anything to do with your post.
It's just that you so matter-of-factly stated that we have no chance of getting past Cleveland in the ECF, nevermind competing in the Finals. There is a reason they play the games in the NBA and, as CClay stated, we are one of the top teams in the whole league and are slated to get a good player with the DPE, possibly another Vet Min signing, and [of course] a decent possibility we get our max All-Star back before the playoffs.
A lot of people watch every game and/or even have season tickets - let's just have a little more of an open mind with how things could turn out.
I really can't understand how people can say we won't win anything this year when we are the second likeliest finals matchup in the entire league according to Vegas... What would your feelings be if we were the hawks, knicks or magic?
Clay, I'm with you. I think a lot of fans are keeping their feelings measured/protected, so that if we lose in conference finals to Cavs, they won't be too disappointed. While I agree with them that the Cavs should be favored against us, especially after Thompson and IT return, it is not at all out of the realm of possibility that we can beat them. As for the Warriors, we just beat them on our home court, and did not play that well. Why is it so far fetched that we can make it a very good series vs. them? Frankly, I feel we match up better against them than we do against the Cavs.
Biggest issue for us right now is the uncertainty concerning Morris' return. If he is done for the season (have not heard that he is, but you have to start wondering), it will be very, very tough to play the Cavs competitively.
I think we will add a body or two at the trade deadline though too. I feel like some are acting like that is not happening even thought we have done it almost every season. (do people already forget the people we added each trade deadline through buyouts during the big 3?, most of those teams had a lot worse record than we will this year.
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Yeah, why even play any games at all? Or at the very least, just sit Irving, Hayward, Horford, Brown, Tatum, etc until a year or two when we might be able to compete. No need to waste anybody’s energy or time with actually trying to win basketball games now - just seems foolish... ::)
No need to take it to such an extreme or call my POV foolish. So I am not as bullish on this team as presently constructed or because of the amount of inexperienced youth. So I think we are one more year away from being a legitimate contender. Nothing wrong with that.
I didn't mean it that way - 'foolish' was in relation to sarcastically resting our players, not anything to do with your post.
It's just that you so matter-of-factly stated that we have no chance of getting past Cleveland in the ECF, nevermind competing in the Finals. There is a reason they play the games in the NBA and, as CClay stated, we are one of the top teams in the whole league and are slated to get a good player with the DPE, possibly another Vet Min signing, and [of course] a decent possibility we get our max All-Star back before the playoffs.
A lot of people watch every game and/or even have season tickets - let's just have a little more of an open mind with how things could turn out.
I really can't understand how people can say we won't win anything this year when we are the second likeliest finals matchup in the entire league according to Vegas... What would your feelings be if we were the hawks, knicks or magic?
Clay, I'm with you. I think a lot of fans are keeping their feelings measured/protected, so that if we lose in conference finals to Cavs, they won't be too disappointed. While I agree with them that the Cavs should be favored against us, especially after Thompson and IT return, it is not at all out of the realm of possibility that we can beat them. As for the Warriors, we just beat them on our home court, and did not play that well. Why is it so far fetched that we can make it a very good series vs. them? Frankly, I feel we match up better against them than we do against the Cavs.
Biggest issue for us right now is the uncertainty concerning Morris' return. If he is done for the season (have not heard that he is, but you have to start wondering), it will be very, very tough to play the Cavs competitively.
I think we will add a body or two at the trade deadline though too. I feel like some are acting like that is not happening even thought we have done it almost every season. (do people already forget the people we added each trade deadline through buyouts during the big 3?, most of those teams had a lot worse record than we will this year.
Here's my thing. I say do what we can to get as far as we can. I mean, I would love to get to the finals and be center stage. I think we CAN get past Cleveland and would do what is necessary to give us the biggest shot.
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Well at least Gordon is out of the boot! Hoping he has a speedy and full recovery. I'm sure he has been itching to play after seeing how well we have done without him. But a healthy Hayward would make us stronger for sure. The Celtics could run the Eastern version of lineup of death with Kyrie, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, and Horford.
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we are certainly ahead of schedule...even without hayward. before the season I think everyone kind of viewed this as a growing year. but the unexpected growth of Jaylen brown and the poise of Tatum has allowed us to beat those expectations.
the real year I think we can go to the finals is next season with tatum/brown having another year of development/returning hayward....and the cavs just getting older
I think there is a strong possibility hayward comes back this year, but I am not sure he will be all-star hayward yet, but he HAS to be an improvement over smart/rozier
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News today:
http://celticswire.usatoday.com/2017/12/19/gordon-hayward-return-nba-playoffs-danny-ainge-boston-celtics/
Ainge: "Hayward had an amazing workout today."
Hayward continues to ramp up his rehab program
Q: could he come back for the post season?"
Ainge: "[Gordon] didn't rule it out... But were not putting any pressure. he's coming along quickly."
Ainge said that he doesn’t know about how much the Celtics would need to see out of him to bring him back on the court in a game this year, but it would require a multitude of play behind the scenes to bring him out for the real thing.
“It all depends and obviously, he’ll need a long time on the court and many practices before he would even consider playing in a game.”
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News today:
http://celticswire.usatoday.com/2017/12/19/gordon-hayward-return-nba-playoffs-danny-ainge-boston-celtics/
Ainge: "Hayward had an amazing workout today."
Hayward continues to ramp up his rehab program
Q: could he come back for the post season?"
Ainge: "[Gordon] didn't rule it out... But were not putting any pressure. he's coming along quickly."
Ainge said that he doesn’t know about how much the Celtics would need to see out of him to bring him back on the court in a game this year, but it would require a multitude of play behind the scenes to bring him out for the real thing.
“It all depends and obviously, he’ll need a long time on the court and many practices before he would even consider playing in a game.”
Those words, coming from Ainge, are the best news we've had so far about Hayward. Ainge is very careful with his words and managing the expectations of both the press and the fanbase. He honestly sounds like a highly optimistic fan in that article and he has intimate knowledge related to Hayward's recovery. Certainly this should mean that Hayward's ankle has responded well, to date, since the boot has been taken off and that that means they have been able to progress him as quickly as they could have hoped.
Obviously, this could change if he were to start experience pain, discomfort or swelling. The course of treatment would shift to a more conservative approach and would be more likely to experience those things again in the future.
But the human body is really incredible and when it's not held back barriers (i.e. lack of, or low quality, treatment) or set backs (swelling, nerve damage, joint damage) it can recover very quickly. Conditioning will be aided by his years of muscle memory and hard work. He seems like someone who has always taken care of nutrition and well-being.
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News today:
http://celticswire.usatoday.com/2017/12/19/gordon-hayward-return-nba-playoffs-danny-ainge-boston-celtics/
Ainge: "Hayward had an amazing workout today."
Hayward continues to ramp up his rehab program
Q: could he come back for the post season?"
Ainge: "[Gordon] didn't rule it out... But were not putting any pressure. he's coming along quickly."
Ainge said that he doesn’t know about how much the Celtics would need to see out of him to bring him back on the court in a game this year, but it would require a multitude of play behind the scenes to bring him out for the real thing.
“It all depends and obviously, he’ll need a long time on the court and many practices before he would even consider playing in a game.”
Those words, coming from Ainge, are the best news we've had so far about Hayward. Ainge is very careful with his words and managing the expectations of both the press and the fanbase. He honestly sounds like a highly optimistic fan in that article and he has intimate knowledge related to Hayward's recovery. Certainly this should mean that Hayward's ankle has responded well, to date, since the boot has been taken off and that that means they have been able to progress him as quickly as they could have hoped.
Obviously, this could change if he were to start experience pain, discomfort or swelling. The course of treatment would shift to a more conservative approach and would be more likely to experience those things again in the future.
But the human body is really incredible and when it's not held back barriers (i.e. lack of, or low quality, treatment) or set backs (swelling, nerve damage, joint damage) it can recover very quickly. Conditioning will be aided by his years of muscle memory and hard work. He seems like someone who has always taken care of nutrition and well-being.
yup 100% agree. We keep hearing fast progression on Hayward. He's literally working out now. Ainge seems to have a cautious but "edited to see what happens" type of tone
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"Amazing Workout"...could mean a few things...stationary bike?...bench presses?
Highly doubt he's doing any running yet.
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I worry about him regaining his lateral speed after an injury like that. Sounds like he is determined to beat the odds and come back stronger. My hat is off to him.
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"Amazing Workout"...could mean a few things...stationary bike?...bench presses?
Highly doubt he's doing any running yet.
Dec 14
Danny Ainge said on @985TheSportsHub Gordon Hayward's doing "full body strength training" and working the ankle, calf, and muscles around the injured area. He's doing 4-5 hours of rehab every day.
Dec 15
https://twitter.com/Scott_Souza/status/941826423156719616
My mind is open to the idea of returning this season
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Dec20
Hayward does yet another interview, a "must read for Celtics fans"
https://t.co/DdeZe3XCpu
-According to plan, He is still wearing the post-boot brace that was planned for 2 weeks after the boot is off.
-he has a sports psychologist to help along the way
When the Celtics are on the road, Ainge sits next to Hayward in the weight room at the club’s headquarters in Waltham, distracting him from monotonous calf raises. “What do you think of the adjustment we made last night?” he asks, the day after a win in Detroit, atoning for a loss to the Pistons two weeks earlier. “Andre Drummond had 20 and 20 last time,” Hayward replies. “So we packed it in the paint, dared them to shoot, and they couldn’t throw it in the ocean. Maybe it caught them off guard.” When the Celtics are home, head coach Brad Stevens spells Ainge. Even though a flight from Chicago landed at 4:45 a.m., Stevens was at the facility by 11, ensuring he would overlap with Hayward.
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Just no more alleyhoops when GH comes back...I remember GH doing a lot of backdoor alleyhoops with Utah and there are moments when he really does take too much risks in doing them...and it finally came and im not surprised that it was at the hands of Crowder and the Cavs..like they totally wanted for GH to have a bad fall though they probably didnt expect him to have a greusome injury.
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Just no more alleyhoops when GH comes back...I remember GH doing a lot of backdoor alleyhoops with Utah and there are moments when he really does take too much risks in doing them...and it finally came and im not surprised that it was at the hands of Crowder and the Cavs..like they totally wanted for GH to have a bad fall though they probably didnt expect him to have a greusome injury.
I agree. The reward of 2 points isn't worth the risk.
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Just no more alleyhoops when GH comes back...I remember GH doing a lot of backdoor alleyhoops with Utah and there are moments when he really does take too much risks in doing them...and it finally came and im not surprised that it was at the hands of Crowder and the Cavs..like they totally wanted for GH to have a bad fall though they probably didnt expect him to have a greusome injury.
Yes, they did that a lot in Utah but also the backdoor alley oop at Butler.
In the SI article it says the Celtics practiced that play A LOT in training camp as well. It's beautiful when it works. It was just a bad pass and a chop block by Crowder and Lebron. That is one HUGE hurdle that GH will have to clear after he gets back on the court, if they try to run that play for him.