CelticsStrong
Around the League => Around the NBA => Topic started by: celticsclay on November 30, 2017, 05:05:49 PM
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We know this all too well...
http://realcavsfans.com/community/index.php?threads/welcome-2018-brooklyn-nets-1st-round-pick.48261/page-124
Some quotes:
"All the other bad teams play like they don’t give a Edited. Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. but BKN brings playoff effort every night. They have massive injuries and it makes no difference because they just try WAY harder
Trade the Edited. Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.n pick tired of watching these dudes"
"Also, man... the Nets aren't a bottom five team, Jae Crowder can't shoot, IT is still a question mark, and Zizic can't get on the floor."
"[dang] its over,,,I'm making my prediction on the pick,,,it falls between 7 and 10."
"Dallas was supposed to be a better team than them. They get healthy and suddenly they look like the 9th or 10th worst team. They're missing 3 starters right now, no reason they should have won in Dallas other than they play hard and are well coached. It's gonna keep them from getting anywhere near the bottom."
"The Nets have a team full of Lester Hudsons. Just when you think your team shouldn't win a [dang] game, Lester Hudson shows up to Edited. Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. up your tank."
"All I know is - IT better come in and help pick Crowder up off the floor, tear things up and turn the Cavs into a team that can truly threaten GS - because if not, the way this pick is trending we may have gotten completely worked over on the Kyrie trade. Still a lot of time to accurately judge the trade but early returns are concerning."
"I can't believe they're gonna end up keeping this Edited. Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.ty pick."
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The Lester Hudson comment is hilarious. These comments remind me of the sky is falling types of comments here last season when the Nets managed to win a bunch of games early in the season.
The Nets do indeed play hard under Atkinson, who I think has been doing a good job over there. After rooting against them for so long, I'd like to see them have a good season especially now that it's at the Cavs expense. Go Nets!
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The Lester Hudson comment is kind of a false analogy though. The Nets don't own their pick and thus aren't tanking.
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Hahahaha. Thanks for Kyrie. Enjoy Anthony Bennett 2.0
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Great. Just great.
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Fans are fans no matter who they root for.
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Dinwiddie’s underrated IMO
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Cavs lost that trade unless IT brings them a ring. Everything pointed to that pick being anywhere from 5-10 before the lottery results.
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Complaining about an unprotected lottery pick from a bad team is silly. Especially so from Cavs fans considering their lottery luck. As long as its top 10, they ought to get a good prospect.
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Cavs lost that trade unless IT brings them a ring. Everything pointed to that pick being anywhere from 5-10 before the lottery results.
Considering Kyrie demanded to be traded, they actually got a good return assuming IT comes back and performs reasonably well this season.
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I posted something like this when trade first went down. There is a pretty good chance this could go horrible for cavs. Worst case scenario:
IT plays there for partial year and moves on for payday or I hope not for his sake but never gets back to last years level
Lebron sees this and the way team is currently playing, moves to another team
Zizic never works out
Draft pick...
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Cavs lost this trade the moment Kyrie requested to be traded.
There was zero chance of them bringing back anything equal to losing a young superstar and franchise cornerstone. They were backed into a corner and they lost this trade before it even happened.
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I am loving this so much.
:)
TP for the OP!
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I posted something like this when trade first went down. There is a pretty good chance this could go horrible for cavs. Worst case scenario:
IT plays there for partial year and moves on for payday or I hope not for his sake but never gets back to last years level
Lebron sees this and the way team is currently playing, moves to another team
Zizic never works out
Draft pick...
Pretty confident that last year was IT's career season. Meaning, he will never have as good of a season, and surely not a better one. Not sure he ever makes another all star team. Would almost bet against it.
Crowder is who he is, which is who he's been all along. He got more love here than he might have deserved, aside from just giving effort every night. Respect for that, but that's his role, so... yeah.
Lebron was likely gone either way.
Zizic and a pick.
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Cavs lost this trade the moment Kyrie requested to be traded.
There was zero chance of them bringing back anything equal to losing a young superstar and franchise cornerstone. They were backed into a corner and they lost this trade before it even happened.
You couldn't be more correct. Thankfully, Danny's assets were ready and waiting to pounce on the opportunity and Danny wasn't afraid to let emotions get in the way of business.
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Cavs lost that trade unless IT brings them a ring. Everything pointed to that pick being anywhere from 5-10 before the lottery results.
Considering Kyrie demanded to be traded, they actually got a good return assuming IT comes back and performs reasonably well this season.
Good return but Kyrie is the prize in the deal.
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ah what a few months brings where so many people play the revisionist history game.
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ah what a few months brings where so many people play the revisionist history game.
Not sure if you are referring to me big mo, but I feel like I have been pretty open about my take on the trade on here. When it happened I was pretty bummed and thought we got ripped off. I thought IT was as good as Kyrie and we were giving them a top 3 pick to boot. It also seemed like we were throwing in Zizic for free who others were high on. In the following months it became clear IT was not going to be ready to start the season and there became significant doubt raised on if the injury may impact him going forward. Meanwhile a lot of the league imploded (did ya see the clippers play without Blake last night?) and the nets got scrappy. The pick would need some real magic to get too 3 and has a very reasonable chance of being 8th or 9th as more and more teams join the tank wars. Obviously from the Cavs forum you can see the cavs fans realize the pick is losing value. Hence the thread
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not you per se, but everyone in this thread makes it seem like they were always on board with the trade, which just wasn't the case. Most of this board was very upset when the trade was made, calling for Danny's head, saying we traded a top 3 pick for a lesser player and giving up a starter, etc.
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not you per se, but everyone in this thread makes it seem like they were always on board with the trade, which just wasn't the case. Most of this board was very upset when the trade was made, calling for Danny's head, saying we traded a top 3 pick for a lesser player and giving up a starter, etc.
Most of this board did not feel that way. From what I recall, there is no doubt that people initially thought we overpaid, but understood that Kyrie was a better investment than IT for the future. And, while giving up the BKN pick was killer at the time, many were giving Danny a semi-pass since he was the one who initially made the incredible deal that brought those picks here in the first place (he 'earned' the right). He had also just acquired another high pick from Philly in the Tatum deal so that took away from some of the 'sting.' I can only recall a couple of people 'calling for Danny's head' and those people were quickly shut down.
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ah what a few months brings where so many people play the revisionist history game.
all history is revisionist in that all histories are narratives authored by people who are located in particular historical, economic, social, cultural, and political settings. being "first in line" does not change this and make "original" authorings automatically more credible.
whew....got that cultural studies blast out of the way. ;D
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If DA Rusell and Lin is not injuried, the Nets is much better than now.
Hope they can finish top 10 pick.
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not you per se, but everyone in this thread makes it seem like they were always on board with the trade, which just wasn't the case. Most of this board was very upset when the trade was made, calling for Danny's head, saying we traded a top 3 pick for a lesser player and giving up a starter, etc.
Most of this board did not feel that way. From what I recall, there is no doubt that people initially thought we overpaid, but understood that Kyrie was a better investment than IT for the future. And, while giving up the BKN pick was killer at the time, many were giving Danny a semi-pass since he was the one who initially made the incredible deal that brought those picks here in the first place (he 'earned' the right). He had also just acquired another high pick from Philly in the Tatum deal so that took away from some of the 'sting.' I can only recall a couple of people 'calling for Danny's head' and those people were quickly shut down.
Yeah, I think Moranis is revising history a bit here.
Many thought we significantly overpaid initially, but that was mainly due to IT's injury significance not being reported at the time. Hell, everyone thought he'd be ready for training camp or at the latest the season opener when the rumors first started, and it wasn't until Cleveland started wanting more that IT's injury significance started becoming clearer.
Context matters.
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This will be the only entertainment I would need for the rest of the day.
This is glorious, absolutely...
(https://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/bobby-roode-glorious-gif-4.gif)
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I kind of hope they trade that Nets Pick for someone who honestly doesn't truly thread the needle for them (like DeAndre Jordan) :laugh:
Hopefully not Cousins though (because he would "thread the needle"). Fortunately Pelicans doing decent so they may not sell at the deadline.
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I was pro trade, and still am, but honestly feel it is way too early to judge it. BKLN could still crash, CLE could trade pick for a great player, Kryie could slack off on D.
Plus CLE is currently on a 10 game win streak WITHOUT IT. If IT comes back anywhere near his 2016-17 self, CLE is going to be really tough to beat. That goes for GSW as well.
Much too early to gloat.
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I was pro trade, and still am, but honestly feel it is way too early to judge it. BKLN could still crash, CLE could trade pick for a great player, Kryie could slack off on D.
Plus CLE is currently on a 10 game win streak WITHOUT IT. If IT comes back anywhere near his 2016-17 self, CLE is going to be really tough to beat. That goes for GSW as well.
Much too early to gloat.
Yeah you can't judge who won the trade for a few years.
Also have to see how Zizic does and whether the Cavs get their Isaiah Thomas with that 2020 Miami 2nd rounder :P
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There's a long way to go in the season. Brooklyn is a bottom-3 team.
Mike
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I was pro trade, and still am, but honestly feel it is way too early to judge it. BKLN could still crash, CLE could trade pick for a great player, Kryie could slack off on D.
Plus CLE is currently on a 10 game win streak WITHOUT IT. If IT comes back anywhere near his 2016-17 self, CLE is going to be really tough to beat. That goes for GSW as well.
Much too early to gloat.
I don't really feel it is too early to judge the trade. We have had over 1/4 of a season to see how Kyrie has fit into the Cs culture and Stevens' system and it has shown that he fits incredibly well. Unless Stevens begins to rub Kyrie the wrong way (doubtful), then I don't really see how this blows up.
If you are of the belief that Danny wouldn't (or shouldn't) have signed IT to a max contract after the season and you were okay with letting go of Crowder to open up more time for Brown/Tatum, then it really comes down to if you thought/think the BKN pick is worth Kyrie. Personally, I would have been extremely happy if we drafted a player as good as Kyrie with that pick. And, at 25 years old, we should be able to get another 10 years of All-Star level play out of him. We also don't have to wait for him to mature - as he is already entering his prime.
Now, if Kyrie leaves after the 2018-19 season, then we can re-visit this discussion :D
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There's a long way to go in the season. Brooklyn is a bottom-3 team.
Mike
On what basis? It sure isn't on any statistics, point differentials or the standings? Just kind of trolling?
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There's a long way to go in the season. Brooklyn is a bottom-3 team.
Mike
On what basis? It sure isn't on any statistics, point differentials or the standings? Just kind of trolling?
Bulls, Hawks, Kings, Suns and Mavs will all probably be worse. They're a long way from a bottom-3 team.
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If the pick is anywhere in the lottery, history shows that Cleveland will get the first pick.
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"[dang] its over,,,I'm making my prediction on the pick,,,it falls between 7 and 10."
This is my prediction since the season started just based on their roster. Teams like ATL, Chicago, Dallas, PHX, and Sacramento are just worse and poorly run.
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Considering that Kyrie demanded a trade, I thought the Cavs got a terrific deal. They got a rotation player/starter in Crowder on a bargain contract, an allstar guard (albeit an injured one) in Isaiah, a young big who many on this board thought would have been a lotto pick in this past draft with Zizic, and what will be a top 1-8 lottery pick. Oh, and they got a decent 2nd rounder tossed in too.
Usually in the NBA when you trade a disgruntled player that has demanded a trade you get crap in return. Or certainly, you get 50 to 75 cents on the dollar. I think the Cavs did very well. Key will be what Isaiah looks like when he comes back. If he's himself, he's going to really make that team tough to handle.
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Gotta love this one:
"Ainge strikes again. I know it was reported the celtics wouldnt do it, but we should have held out of IT+Tatum or nothing. Would have rather sent him to Denver or the Suns.
Creating our biggest obstacle in the East wasnt worth the 10th pick in the draft+diet Demarre Caroll and rolling the dice on ITs hip.
Love the way the cavs have been playing without Kyrie, but as David Griffin said, history will not view this trade kindly for the Cavs."
Diet Demarre Carroll Lol
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Considering that Kyrie demanded a trade, I thought the Cavs got a terrific deal. They got a rotation player/starter in Crowder on a bargain contract, an allstar guard (albeit an injured one) in Isaiah, a young big who many on this board thought would have been a lotto pick in this past draft with Zizic, and what will be a top 1-8 lottery pick. Oh, and they got a decent 2nd rounder tossed in too.
Usually in the NBA when you trade a disgruntled player that has demanded a trade you get crap in return. Or certainly, you get 50 to 75 cents on the dollar. I think the Cavs did very well. Key will be what Isaiah looks like when he comes back. If he's himself, he's going to really make that team tough to handle.
I think the Cavs did very well too considering their situation. But didn't the Celtics did well also? We have Kyrie playing better than anyone expected and appearing to be the anchor of our team for years to come. I think both teams did well.
When IT gets up to speed for CLE, they may be the best team in the league. They have won 12 in a row without him and they will add an elite player to the mix at a position of real need. They have been starting Jose Calderon at PG. Plus they can trade the BKN pick if they want to for more reinforcements.
CLE is set but I would not reverse the trade. I like where the Celtics are with Kyrie and we still get to add in Hayward. CLE may win the title and then blow up with IT and LeBron leaving.
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Considering that Kyrie demanded a trade, I thought the Cavs got a terrific deal. They got a rotation player/starter in Crowder on a bargain contract, an allstar guard (albeit an injured one) in Isaiah, a young big who many on this board thought would have been a lotto pick in this past draft with Zizic, and what will be a top 1-8 lottery pick. Oh, and they got a decent 2nd rounder tossed in too.
Usually in the NBA when you trade a disgruntled player that has demanded a trade you get crap in return. Or certainly, you get 50 to 75 cents on the dollar. I think the Cavs did very well. Key will be what Isaiah looks like when he comes back. If he's himself, he's going to really make that team tough to handle.
I think the Cavs did very well too considering their situation. But didn't the Celtics did well also? We have Kyrie playing better than anyone expected and appearing to be the anchor of our team for years to come. I think both teams did well.
When IT gets up to speed for CLE, they may be the best team in the league. They have won 12 in a row without him and they will add an elite player to the mix at a position of real need. They have been starting Jose Calderon at PG. Plus they can trade the BKN pick if they want to for more reinforcements.
CLE is set but I would not reverse the trade. I like where the Celtics are with Kyrie and we still get to add in Hayward. CLE may win the title and then blow up with IT and LeBron leaving.
I pretty much agree with everything that Real World and Vermont Green said. However, I don't think IT makes them the best team in the league. That will pretty much always be GSW for the time being. Integrating IT is going to take some time. He is best when he has the ball in his hands. Changing up what LeBron has around him has always taken time. Look at the first 1/4 of the season when he went to Miami, or this season.
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#Nets have played ONE game this season decided by 15 points or more. Competitive basketball on a nightly basis.
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#Nets have played ONE game this season decided by 15 points or more. Competitive basketball on a nightly basis.
i'm lovin' it
#lemmegetaMcpick2
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Considering that Kyrie demanded a trade, I thought the Cavs got a terrific deal. They got a rotation player/starter in Crowder on a bargain contract, an allstar guard (albeit an injured one) in Isaiah, a young big who many on this board thought would have been a lotto pick in this past draft with Zizic, and what will be a top 1-8 lottery pick. Oh, and they got a decent 2nd rounder tossed in too.
Usually in the NBA when you trade a disgruntled player that has demanded a trade you get crap in return. Or certainly, you get 50 to 75 cents on the dollar. I think the Cavs did very well. Key will be what Isaiah looks like when he comes back. If he's himself, he's going to really make that team tough to handle.
I think the Cavs did very well too considering their situation. But didn't the Celtics did well also? We have Kyrie playing better than anyone expected and appearing to be the anchor of our team for years to come. I think both teams did well.
When IT gets up to speed for CLE, they may be the best team in the league. They have won 12 in a row without him and they will add an elite player to the mix at a position of real need. They have been starting Jose Calderon at PG. Plus they can trade the BKN pick if they want to for more reinforcements.
CLE is set but I would not reverse the trade. I like where the Celtics are with Kyrie and we still get to add in Hayward. CLE may win the title and then blow up with IT and LeBron leaving.
I pretty much agree with everything that Real World and Vermont Green said. However, I don't think IT makes them the best team in the league. That will pretty much always be GSW for the time being. Integrating IT is going to take some time. He is best when he has the ball in his hands. Changing up what LeBron has around him has always taken time. Look at the first 1/4 of the season when he went to Miami, or this season.
I am a bit surprised that IT is viewed as really helping the Cavs. Do people realize the Cavs lead the eastern conference in scoring per game (111 points per game). The reason they have lost some games is because of their defense. It is the worst of all teams currently holding a playoff spot in the east at 108 per game allowed. So adding in the worst defensive guard to a team that currently has no back line defenders other than Lebron (who gets gassed exerting all his energy on defense and takes plays off) is going to make them better? Maybe IT helps them score a few more points a game, but even the Warriors only score 114. To me, especially for playoff basketball they need to focus on decreasing their points allowed, not improving their elite offense.
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I pretty much agree with everything that Real World and Vermont Green said. However, I don't think IT makes them the best team in the league. That will pretty much always be GSW for the time being. Integrating IT is going to take some time. He is best when he has the ball in his hands. Changing up what LeBron has around him has always taken time. Look at the first 1/4 of the season when he went to Miami, or this season.
Nothing you say is wrong, GSW is the top dog until they aren't and IT does have to get back on the court and prove he still has it and that he can make it work with LeBron and the rest his new team.
His health is a big question of course and I have no idea but somehow I believe that he will be fine. He just seems like that kind of player who will defy whatever odds and excel. In terms of integrating with the Cavs, I don't think either LeBron or Isaiah NEED to have the ball in their hands. I predict that at crunch time, LeBron will take over but he is a willing passer and if IT is open for a big shot, he can hit them. IT gives the Cavs the flexibility to hand it over to IT for stretches to take some load off LeBron which I don't think will hurt anyone's feelings and will be a benefit.
Yes, there are some big "Ifs" for CLE but I see them giving the GSW a real run for it this year. They have added IT, Wade, and Crowder in place of Kyrie. For a one year run at it, I think they are better than last year, they have added real depth and they weren't really using Kyrie to his full potential (I think IT will fit better and can replace most if not all of Kyrie's production and big shot making). I hope it goes well for IT.
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not you per se, but everyone in this thread makes it seem like they were always on board with the trade, which just wasn't the case. Most of this board was very upset when the trade was made, calling for Danny's head, saying we traded a top 3 pick for a lesser player and giving up a starter, etc.
Very revisionist history. Most of this board was absolutely on board with it.
I, on the other hand, was not though I never once called for Danny's head (and I don't remember anyone doing so). I said we swapped IT for a younger version of IT and threw in a likely top 5 pick, Zizic and one of the better contracts in the NBA to boot.
Of course, we had no idea that IT wouldn't be playing in November or even December. The Nets are exceeding expectation and I doubt anyone expected that Demarre Carroll would be averaging a career high in points. No one expected Jae Crowder to TS% to drop 80 points and his scoring to go down 5ppg. Few anticipated that Kyrie would be playing defense (though he's slipped considerably in recent games). Zizic, who many experts around the nation predicted would have been a later lottery pick, has a whopping 32 total minutes played.
On this trade, everything is coming up Millhouse for Danny. Even he couldn't have predicted this. I expect the pendulum to swing back the other way at some point. But at this stage there's nothing for me to say but I was wrong. The trade looks brilliant because of all of these unforeseen (or highly unlikely) events.
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not you per se, but everyone in this thread makes it seem like they were always on board with the trade, which just wasn't the case. Most of this board was very upset when the trade was made, calling for Danny's head, saying we traded a top 3 pick for a lesser player and giving up a starter, etc.
Very revisionist history. Most of this board was absolutely on board with it.
I, on the other hand, was not though I never once called for Danny's head (and I don't remember anyone doing so). I said we swapped IT for a younger version of IT and threw in a likely top 5 pick, Zizic and one of the better contracts in the NBA to boot.
Of course, we had no idea that IT wouldn't be playing in November or even December. The Nets are exceeding expectation and I doubt anyone expected that Demarre Carroll would be averaging a career high in points. No one expected Jae Crowder to TS% to drop 80 points and his scoring to go down 5ppg. Few anticipated that Kyrie would be playing defense (though he's slipped considerably in recent games). Zizic, who many experts around the nation predicted would have been a later lottery pick, has a whopping 32 total minutes played.
On this trade, everything is coming up Millhouse for Danny. Even he couldn't have predicted this. I expect the pendulum to swing back the other way at some point. But at this stage there's nothing for me to say but I was wrong. The trade looks brilliant because of all of these unforeseen (or highly unlikely) events.
Yeah, wasn't there a thread with a poll where the majority of the board was actually on board with the trade or at least okay with it? I remember CBers discussing how the poll results were surprising given how vocal the fans that disliked the trade were.
Gotta love this one:
"Ainge strikes again. I know it was reported the celtics wouldnt do it, but we should have held out of IT+Tatum or nothing. Would have rather sent him to Denver or the Suns.
Creating our biggest obstacle in the East wasnt worth the 10th pick in the draft+diet Demarre Caroll and rolling the dice on ITs hip.
Love the way the cavs have been playing without Kyrie, but as David Griffin said, history will not view this trade kindly for the Cavs."
Diet Demarre Carroll Lol
Diet Demarre Carroll... oh my. :o :P
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I could care less how IT or Crowder or Zizic or the draft pick comes out - I am perfectly happy with Kyrie Irving. I'd do that trade every day until the end of time.
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not you per se, but everyone in this thread makes it seem like they were always on board with the trade, which just wasn't the case. Most of this board was very upset when the trade was made, calling for Danny's head, saying we traded a top 3 pick for a lesser player and giving up a starter, etc.
Very revisionist history. Most of this board was absolutely on board with it.
I, on the other hand, was not though I never once called for Danny's head (and I don't remember anyone doing so). I said we swapped IT for a younger version of IT and threw in a likely top 5 pick, Zizic and one of the better contracts in the NBA to boot.
Of course, we had no idea that IT wouldn't be playing in November or even December. The Nets are exceeding expectation and I doubt anyone expected that Demarre Carroll would be averaging a career high in points. No one expected Jae Crowder to TS% to drop 80 points and his scoring to go down 5ppg. Few anticipated that Kyrie would be playing defense (though he's slipped considerably in recent games). Zizic, who many experts around the nation predicted would have been a later lottery pick, has a whopping 32 total minutes played.
On this trade, everything is coming up Millhouse for Danny. Even he couldn't have predicted this. I expect the pendulum to swing back the other way at some point. But at this stage there's nothing for me to say but I was wrong. The trade looks brilliant because of all of these unforeseen (or highly unlikely) events.
Granath I looked this up and you are correct. Moranis' memory on this is not accurate from the poll I could find.
66% of the board gave it an A or a B as an initial reaction. Only 11% gave it a D or an F.
As mentioned earlier I was very against the trade initially myself. However, I have basically 180'd.
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=93180.0
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Considering that Kyrie demanded a trade, I thought the Cavs got a terrific deal. They got a rotation player/starter in Crowder on a bargain contract, an allstar guard (albeit an injured one) in Isaiah, a young big who many on this board thought would have been a lotto pick in this past draft with Zizic, and what will be a top 1-8 lottery pick. Oh, and they got a decent 2nd rounder tossed in too.
Usually in the NBA when you trade a disgruntled player that has demanded a trade you get crap in return. Or certainly, you get 50 to 75 cents on the dollar. I think the Cavs did very well. Key will be what Isaiah looks like when he comes back. If he's himself, he's going to really make that team tough to handle.
I think the Cavs did very well too considering their situation. But didn't the Celtics did well also? We have Kyrie playing better than anyone expected and appearing to be the anchor of our team for years to come. I think both teams did well.
When IT gets up to speed for CLE, they may be the best team in the league. They have won 12 in a row without him and they will add an elite player to the mix at a position of real need. They have been starting Jose Calderon at PG. Plus they can trade the BKN pick if they want to for more reinforcements.
CLE is set but I would not reverse the trade. I like where the Celtics are with Kyrie and we still get to add in Hayward. CLE may win the title and then blow up with IT and LeBron leaving.
I said shortly after the deal that Kyrie did Cleveland a solid. He quietly went about the trade request not being disgruntled (ie. hurting his trade value) and even increasing his value by eventually waving his trade kicker.
CLE did very well in this trade if IT comes back strong and CLE surpasses Boston in the East, and/or if that BK '18 pick is top-5. Lebron will do as much as he possibly can to make sure the former part of those conditions becomes true, so even if IT doesn't add much I think CLE fans will be fine in the end.
The CLE fans are whining because Boston looks really good (like maybe they could win the East good) and that BK '18 pick is looking more like a 7-through-12 pick and not a top-5. More importantly, Kyrie is playing like an MVP candidate and at 25 years old, if all CLE walks away with is a mid-lottery pick and a couple projects (IT and Lebron can leave), then this is a huge L for the Cavs
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I think CLE fans will be fine in the end
Only until the next time the Browns play.
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not you per se, but everyone in this thread makes it seem like they were always on board with the trade, which just wasn't the case. Most of this board was very upset when the trade was made, calling for Danny's head, saying we traded a top 3 pick for a lesser player and giving up a starter, etc.
Very revisionist history. Most of this board was absolutely on board with it.
I, on the other hand, was not though I never once called for Danny's head (and I don't remember anyone doing so). I said we swapped IT for a younger version of IT and threw in a likely top 5 pick, Zizic and one of the better contracts in the NBA to boot.
Of course, we had no idea that IT wouldn't be playing in November or even December. The Nets are exceeding expectation and I doubt anyone expected that Demarre Carroll would be averaging a career high in points. No one expected Jae Crowder to TS% to drop 80 points and his scoring to go down 5ppg. Few anticipated that Kyrie would be playing defense (though he's slipped considerably in recent games). Zizic, who many experts around the nation predicted would have been a later lottery pick, has a whopping 32 total minutes played.
On this trade, everything is coming up Millhouse for Danny. Even he couldn't have predicted this. I expect the pendulum to swing back the other way at some point. But at this stage there's nothing for me to say but I was wrong. The trade looks brilliant because of all of these unforeseen (or highly unlikely) events.
Granath I looked this up and you are correct. Moranis' memory on this is not accurate from the poll I could find.
66% of the board gave it an A or a B as an initial reaction. Only 11% gave it a D or an F.
As mentioned earlier I was very against the trade initially myself. However, I have basically 180'd.
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=93180.0
TP for finding this!!
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not you per se, but everyone in this thread makes it seem like they were always on board with the trade, which just wasn't the case. Most of this board was very upset when the trade was made, calling for Danny's head, saying we traded a top 3 pick for a lesser player and giving up a starter, etc.
Very revisionist history. Most of this board was absolutely on board with it.
I, on the other hand, was not though I never once called for Danny's head (and I don't remember anyone doing so). I said we swapped IT for a younger version of IT and threw in a likely top 5 pick, Zizic and one of the better contracts in the NBA to boot.
Of course, we had no idea that IT wouldn't be playing in November or even December. The Nets are exceeding expectation and I doubt anyone expected that Demarre Carroll would be averaging a career high in points. No one expected Jae Crowder to TS% to drop 80 points and his scoring to go down 5ppg. Few anticipated that Kyrie would be playing defense (though he's slipped considerably in recent games). Zizic, who many experts around the nation predicted would have been a later lottery pick, has a whopping 32 total minutes played.
On this trade, everything is coming up Millhouse for Danny. Even he couldn't have predicted this. I expect the pendulum to swing back the other way at some point. But at this stage there's nothing for me to say but I was wrong. The trade looks brilliant because of all of these unforeseen (or highly unlikely) events.
Granath I looked this up and you are correct. Moranis' memory on this is not accurate from the poll I could find.
66% of the board gave it an A or a B as an initial reaction. Only 11% gave it a D or an F.
As mentioned earlier I was very against the trade initially myself. However, I have basically 180'd.
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=93180.0
TP for finding this!!
that thread was open for voting for a long time after the trade and well into the season, so it is hard to definitively say what it was right after the trade. The comments though have a lot of negatives right after and at a much larger percentage then the positives. There were countless threads about how the Cavs won the trade initially as well. Obviously once the extent of Thomas' injury became more known the tide shifted heavily back towards Boston.
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not you per se, but everyone in this thread makes it seem like they were always on board with the trade, which just wasn't the case. Most of this board was very upset when the trade was made, calling for Danny's head, saying we traded a top 3 pick for a lesser player and giving up a starter, etc.
Very revisionist history. Most of this board was absolutely on board with it.
I, on the other hand, was not though I never once called for Danny's head (and I don't remember anyone doing so). I said we swapped IT for a younger version of IT and threw in a likely top 5 pick, Zizic and one of the better contracts in the NBA to boot.
Of course, we had no idea that IT wouldn't be playing in November or even December. The Nets are exceeding expectation and I doubt anyone expected that Demarre Carroll would be averaging a career high in points. No one expected Jae Crowder to TS% to drop 80 points and his scoring to go down 5ppg. Few anticipated that Kyrie would be playing defense (though he's slipped considerably in recent games). Zizic, who many experts around the nation predicted would have been a later lottery pick, has a whopping 32 total minutes played.
On this trade, everything is coming up Millhouse for Danny. Even he couldn't have predicted this. I expect the pendulum to swing back the other way at some point. But at this stage there's nothing for me to say but I was wrong. The trade looks brilliant because of all of these unforeseen (or highly unlikely) events.
Granath I looked this up and you are correct. Moranis' memory on this is not accurate from the poll I could find.
66% of the board gave it an A or a B as an initial reaction. Only 11% gave it a D or an F.
As mentioned earlier I was very against the trade initially myself. However, I have basically 180'd.
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=93180.0
TP for finding this!!
that thread was open for voting for a long time after the trade and well into the season, so it is hard to definitively say what it was right after the trade. The comments though have a lot of negatives right after and at a much larger percentage then the positives. There were countless threads about how the Cavs won the trade initially as well. Obviously once the extent of Thomas' injury became more known the tide shifted heavily back towards Boston.
No, I kept up with it right when it started (and I'm sure others did, as Granath alluded to), and it was always majority for the C's. I remember being surprised as the numbers mounted during the first week of the poll. The people against it were the most vocal, but the majority were good or at least okay with the trade.
tl;dr the people not happy with the trade were the loudest and made the most threads, but that wasn't the opinion of most posters
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not you per se, but everyone in this thread makes it seem like they were always on board with the trade, which just wasn't the case. Most of this board was very upset when the trade was made, calling for Danny's head, saying we traded a top 3 pick for a lesser player and giving up a starter, etc.
Very revisionist history. Most of this board was absolutely on board with it.
I, on the other hand, was not though I never once called for Danny's head (and I don't remember anyone doing so). I said we swapped IT for a younger version of IT and threw in a likely top 5 pick, Zizic and one of the better contracts in the NBA to boot.
Of course, we had no idea that IT wouldn't be playing in November or even December. The Nets are exceeding expectation and I doubt anyone expected that Demarre Carroll would be averaging a career high in points. No one expected Jae Crowder to TS% to drop 80 points and his scoring to go down 5ppg. Few anticipated that Kyrie would be playing defense (though he's slipped considerably in recent games). Zizic, who many experts around the nation predicted would have been a later lottery pick, has a whopping 32 total minutes played.
On this trade, everything is coming up Millhouse for Danny. Even he couldn't have predicted this. I expect the pendulum to swing back the other way at some point. But at this stage there's nothing for me to say but I was wrong. The trade looks brilliant because of all of these unforeseen (or highly unlikely) events.
Granath I looked this up and you are correct. Moranis' memory on this is not accurate from the poll I could find.
66% of the board gave it an A or a B as an initial reaction. Only 11% gave it a D or an F.
As mentioned earlier I was very against the trade initially myself. However, I have basically 180'd.
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=93180.0
TP for finding this!!
that thread was open for voting for a long time after the trade and well into the season, so it is hard to definitively say what it was right after the trade. The comments though have a lot of negatives right after and at a much larger percentage then the positives. There were countless threads about how the Cavs won the trade initially as well. Obviously once the extent of Thomas' injury became more known the tide shifted heavily back towards Boston.
With all due respect, you're objectively wrong. Let it go.
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not you per se, but everyone in this thread makes it seem like they were always on board with the trade, which just wasn't the case. Most of this board was very upset when the trade was made, calling for Danny's head, saying we traded a top 3 pick for a lesser player and giving up a starter, etc.
Very revisionist history. Most of this board was absolutely on board with it.
I, on the other hand, was not though I never once called for Danny's head (and I don't remember anyone doing so). I said we swapped IT for a younger version of IT and threw in a likely top 5 pick, Zizic and one of the better contracts in the NBA to boot.
Of course, we had no idea that IT wouldn't be playing in November or even December. The Nets are exceeding expectation and I doubt anyone expected that Demarre Carroll would be averaging a career high in points. No one expected Jae Crowder to TS% to drop 80 points and his scoring to go down 5ppg. Few anticipated that Kyrie would be playing defense (though he's slipped considerably in recent games). Zizic, who many experts around the nation predicted would have been a later lottery pick, has a whopping 32 total minutes played.
On this trade, everything is coming up Millhouse for Danny. Even he couldn't have predicted this. I expect the pendulum to swing back the other way at some point. But at this stage there's nothing for me to say but I was wrong. The trade looks brilliant because of all of these unforeseen (or highly unlikely) events.
Granath I looked this up and you are correct. Moranis' memory on this is not accurate from the poll I could find.
66% of the board gave it an A or a B as an initial reaction. Only 11% gave it a D or an F.
As mentioned earlier I was very against the trade initially myself. However, I have basically 180'd.
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=93180.0
TP for finding this!!
that thread was open for voting for a long time after the trade and well into the season, so it is hard to definitively say what it was right after the trade. The comments though have a lot of negatives right after and at a much larger percentage then the positives. There were countless threads about how the Cavs won the trade initially as well. Obviously once the extent of Thomas' injury became more known the tide shifted heavily back towards Boston.
No, I kept up with it right when it started (and I'm sure others did, as Granath alluded to), and it was always majority for the C's. I remember being surprised as the numbers mounted during the first week of the poll. The people against it were the most vocal, but the majority were good or at least okay with the trade.
tl;dr the people not happy with the trade were the loudest and made the most threads, but that wasn't the opinion of most posters
This is correct. As one of the most vocal posters on the board in favor of the trade at the time, I can say that the poll was always at least a 50/50 split or slightly in favor of the trade, and that there seemed to be more posts slamming the trade than defending it... but it was tons of repeat posters commenting similar things again and again.
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Did they expect Brooklyn to be the worst team in the league? Not sure everyone here thought that was the case, even before the pick was traded. I figured them for a bottom 5 team. That could still happen. Only Atlanta, Chicago and Sacramento are pretty much guaranteed for one of bottom 5 spots.
The Cavs fans need to stop crying like 'bron does. They'll still get a decent pick out of the deal. Even if the pick falls between 7-10 there will be talent there. Can't have everything go your way like when you got 'bron and Kyrie and f'd-up the other no.1 overall pick.
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not you per se, but everyone in this thread makes it seem like they were always on board with the trade, which just wasn't the case. Most of this board was very upset when the trade was made, calling for Danny's head, saying we traded a top 3 pick for a lesser player and giving up a starter, etc.
Very revisionist history. Most of this board was absolutely on board with it.
I, on the other hand, was not though I never once called for Danny's head (and I don't remember anyone doing so). I said we swapped IT for a younger version of IT and threw in a likely top 5 pick, Zizic and one of the better contracts in the NBA to boot.
Of course, we had no idea that IT wouldn't be playing in November or even December. The Nets are exceeding expectation and I doubt anyone expected that Demarre Carroll would be averaging a career high in points. No one expected Jae Crowder to TS% to drop 80 points and his scoring to go down 5ppg. Few anticipated that Kyrie would be playing defense (though he's slipped considerably in recent games). Zizic, who many experts around the nation predicted would have been a later lottery pick, has a whopping 32 total minutes played.
On this trade, everything is coming up Millhouse for Danny. Even he couldn't have predicted this. I expect the pendulum to swing back the other way at some point. But at this stage there's nothing for me to say but I was wrong. The trade looks brilliant because of all of these unforeseen (or highly unlikely) events.
Granath I looked this up and you are correct. Moranis' memory on this is not accurate from the poll I could find.
66% of the board gave it an A or a B as an initial reaction. Only 11% gave it a D or an F.
As mentioned earlier I was very against the trade initially myself. However, I have basically 180'd.
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=93180.0
TP for finding this!!
that thread was open for voting for a long time after the trade and well into the season, so it is hard to definitively say what it was right after the trade. The comments though have a lot of negatives right after and at a much larger percentage then the positives. There were countless threads about how the Cavs won the trade initially as well. Obviously once the extent of Thomas' injury became more known the tide shifted heavily back towards Boston.
With all due respect, you're objectively wrong. Let it go.
Yea unless everyone on the board is a Chad Ford type that wanted to go back and change their vote retroactively or something this makes no sense. I agree with others that the most vocal posted a lot making it seem like more people were against it (and i started a thread against it), but to say the majority were against the trade is definitely objectively false.
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not you per se, but everyone in this thread makes it seem like they were always on board with the trade, which just wasn't the case. Most of this board was very upset when the trade was made, calling for Danny's head, saying we traded a top 3 pick for a lesser player and giving up a starter, etc.
Very revisionist history. Most of this board was absolutely on board with it.
I, on the other hand, was not though I never once called for Danny's head (and I don't remember anyone doing so). I said we swapped IT for a younger version of IT and threw in a likely top 5 pick, Zizic and one of the better contracts in the NBA to boot.
Of course, we had no idea that IT wouldn't be playing in November or even December. The Nets are exceeding expectation and I doubt anyone expected that Demarre Carroll would be averaging a career high in points. No one expected Jae Crowder to TS% to drop 80 points and his scoring to go down 5ppg. Few anticipated that Kyrie would be playing defense (though he's slipped considerably in recent games). Zizic, who many experts around the nation predicted would have been a later lottery pick, has a whopping 32 total minutes played.
On this trade, everything is coming up Millhouse for Danny. Even he couldn't have predicted this. I expect the pendulum to swing back the other way at some point. But at this stage there's nothing for me to say but I was wrong. The trade looks brilliant because of all of these unforeseen (or highly unlikely) events.
Granath I looked this up and you are correct. Moranis' memory on this is not accurate from the poll I could find.
66% of the board gave it an A or a B as an initial reaction. Only 11% gave it a D or an F.
As mentioned earlier I was very against the trade initially myself. However, I have basically 180'd.
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=93180.0
TP for finding this!!
that thread was open for voting for a long time after the trade and well into the season, so it is hard to definitively say what it was right after the trade. The comments though have a lot of negatives right after and at a much larger percentage then the positives. There were countless threads about how the Cavs won the trade initially as well. Obviously once the extent of Thomas' injury became more known the tide shifted heavily back towards Boston.
With all due respect, you're objectively wrong. Let it go.
Yea unless everyone on the board is a Chad Ford type that wanted to go back and change their vote retroactively or something this makes no sense. I agree with others that the most vocal posted a lot making it seem like more people were against it (and i started a thread against it), but to say the majority were against the trade is definitely objectively false.
Yeah, as someone who was (and still is) not a supporter of the trade, I can safely say I was in the minority from Day 1.
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The cavs as organisation should leave top picks for others... their history with the picks is bad... irving and Wiggins are out of there and bennet was a comical pick... keep Bron till 40...
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Some of them said they wanted the Memphis pick too or Tatum lol
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The cavs as organisation should leave top picks for others... their history with the picks is bad... irving and Wiggins are out of there and bennet was a comical pick... keep Bron till 40...
Don't forget Dion Waiters
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not you per se, but everyone in this thread makes it seem like they were always on board with the trade, which just wasn't the case. Most of this board was very upset when the trade was made, calling for Danny's head, saying we traded a top 3 pick for a lesser player and giving up a starter, etc.
Very revisionist history. Most of this board was absolutely on board with it.
I, on the other hand, was not though I never once called for Danny's head (and I don't remember anyone doing so). I said we swapped IT for a younger version of IT and threw in a likely top 5 pick, Zizic and one of the better contracts in the NBA to boot.
Of course, we had no idea that IT wouldn't be playing in November or even December. The Nets are exceeding expectation and I doubt anyone expected that Demarre Carroll would be averaging a career high in points. No one expected Jae Crowder to TS% to drop 80 points and his scoring to go down 5ppg. Few anticipated that Kyrie would be playing defense (though he's slipped considerably in recent games). Zizic, who many experts around the nation predicted would have been a later lottery pick, has a whopping 32 total minutes played.
On this trade, everything is coming up Millhouse for Danny. Even he couldn't have predicted this. I expect the pendulum to swing back the other way at some point. But at this stage there's nothing for me to say but I was wrong. The trade looks brilliant because of all of these unforeseen (or highly unlikely) events.
Granath I looked this up and you are correct. Moranis' memory on this is not accurate from the poll I could find.
66% of the board gave it an A or a B as an initial reaction. Only 11% gave it a D or an F.
As mentioned earlier I was very against the trade initially myself. However, I have basically 180'd.
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=93180.0
TP for finding this!!
that thread was open for voting for a long time after the trade and well into the season, so it is hard to definitively say what it was right after the trade. The comments though have a lot of negatives right after and at a much larger percentage then the positives. There were countless threads about how the Cavs won the trade initially as well. Obviously once the extent of Thomas' injury became more known the tide shifted heavily back towards Boston.
With all due respect, you're objectively wrong. Let it go.
Yea unless everyone on the board is a Chad Ford type that wanted to go back and change their vote retroactively or something this makes no sense. I agree with others that the most vocal posted a lot making it seem like more people were against it (and i started a thread against it), but to say the majority were against the trade is definitely objectively false.
Yeah, as someone who was (and still is) not a supporter of the trade, I can safely say I was in the minority from Day 1.
What needs to happen for you to change your mind? A ring? The pick to be in the 20's? Or is it a principled position?
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The cavs as organisation should leave top picks for others... their history with the picks is bad... irving and Wiggins are out of there and bennet was a comical pick... keep Bron till 40...
Don't forget Dion Waiters
And that Lebron guy. What. A wasted pick he was. ::)
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Yeah, as someone who was (and still is) not a supporter of the trade, I can safely say I was in the minority from Day 1.
What needs to happen for you to change your mind? A ring? The pick to be in the 20's? Or is it a principled position?
I am actually surprised to see SL take this position.
I imagine he isn't this extreme, but for some people, it's not even about where the pick lands, but how the player taken with the pick (or within range of the pick) turns out. Regardless of how great (and young) Kyrie is and continues to be, it could be 5-7 years before those against the trade finally accept (or reject) it.
What they aren't taking into consideration is IT's age, health, and contract situation and the fact that we are now set to compete for the present and the future with Kyrie at the helm. As I recall, SL was also a huge fan of Crowder's contract (me, too, btw).
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no sympathy for Cleveland regarding the pick. predicted Nets with top 8 pick before the season started. still well within the probably range for the pick.
still think we overpaid. Kyrie's been amazing and better for this team than IT IMO which is what I expected but there should have been protections on that Brooklyn pick. if nothing else but a top-1 protection like the one Philly put on the Laker/Sac pick
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This thread keeps giving. Following the Nets upset win over the Thunder:
"I know I'm quite far from the only one but I've said it a few times starting with opening night that this pick wasn't going to be the uber premier pick we all hoped it would be, and every time got funny's and disagrees. Well now none of us are laughing, d&*%s."
and my personal favorite: "Hope we can avoid Brooklyn in the playoffs."
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Yeah, as someone who was (and still is) not a supporter of the trade, I can safely say I was in the minority from Day 1.
What needs to happen for you to change your mind? A ring? The pick to be in the 20's? Or is it a principled position?
I am actually surprised to see SL take this position.
I imagine he isn't this extreme, but for some people, it's not even about where the pick lands, but how the player taken with the pick (or within range of the pick) turns out. Regardless of how great (and young) Kyrie is and continues to be, it could be 5-7 years before those against the trade finally accept (or reject) it.
What they aren't taking into consideration is IT's age, health, and contract situation and the fact that we are now set to compete for the present and the future with Kyrie at the helm. As I recall, SL was also a huge fan of Crowder's contract (me, too, btw).
I can't speak for SL but I'm also still cautious about this trade (which is a couple of steps up from where I started).
The current situation far improves my opinion of the trade. After all, everything that could go right for the Celtics in this deal has gone right (or wrong from Cleveland's standpoint):
- IT is still hurt
- Crowder isn't playing particularly well
- Zizic isn't seeing the floor.
- The Nets have 10 wins before January
- Kyrie is playing defense (although that's slipped lately), has been relatively healthy and hasn't fallen off the (flat) Earth
- The Cs are winning
Much of that could not be reasonably predicted when this deal was done. As I've said before, it's all coming up Millhouse for Ainge. But there's a lot that could still reasonably happen to make this deal go south again.
- Irving could choose not to re-sign in two years
- Irving could go back to playing no defense (this is more of a concern lately) or get hurt and start playing 50 games again (as he's been prone to do)
- IT could get perfectly healthy and with that injury may resign for less than the max
- Brooklyn could go on a losing streak and the pick ends up being Bagley who looks more and more like a generational talent
Is any of that likely to happen? Probably not but any single one of those really colors the deal. Then there's the normal stuff - IT coming back and playing well, Crowder's shooting has been improving, Zizic will improve, etc.
So I'm not sure that there will be a verdict on this for a while yet. If the Cs win the title then that's the definitive answer. Let's hope for that outcome.
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Time for Okafor and Nik to have breakout seasons...go Nets!!
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They're panicking big time after that win over okc. There's 5 to 10 pages of posts since last night
"Also, I know it's crying over spilt milk because there really wasn't a better deal out there, but if IT doesn't come back as IT from last year, the trade for Kyrie will go down as one of the biggest trade thefts ever."
"Eh it's more just the frustration seeping out over Danny Ainge cackling to the bank after dumping this asset right when it peaked. Anyone who watched them coached by Atkinson last season knew they were poised to make a leap. It's getting to that time when people on this forum stop deluding themselves about this being the most valuable asset in the league."
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They're panicking big time after that win over okc. There's 5 to 10 pages of posts since last night
"Also, I know it's crying over spilt milk because there really wasn't a better deal out there, but if IT doesn't come back as IT from last year, the trade for Kyrie will go down as one of the biggest trade thefts ever."
"Eh it's more just the frustration seeping out over Danny Ainge cackling to the bank after dumping this asset right when it peaked. Anyone who watched them coached by Atkinson last season knew they were poised to make a leap. It's getting to that time when people on this forum stop deluding themselves about this being the most valuable asset in the league."
great ones. I know we would be losing our mind over that game last night if we still had the pick.
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Lebron might be sensing the pic won't be high enough to get a top STAR to join him. He knew they could get Love with that pick when he fled Heat.
If Lebron thinks the FO won't spend the pic on getting him another star or the pick looks to be out of top 5-6 ......Lebron sees the writing on the wall. I thinking he is skeptical Cavs would resign IT for a max no matter how his hip plays out .
Leaving Bron with midget with a bad hip and no top 5 draft pick is gonna push him out the door.
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They're panicking big time after that win over okc. There's 5 to 10 pages of posts since last night
"Also, I know it's crying over spilt milk because there really wasn't a better deal out there, but if IT doesn't come back as IT from last year, the trade for Kyrie will go down as one of the biggest trade thefts ever."
"Eh it's more just the frustration seeping out over Danny Ainge cackling to the bank after dumping this asset right when it peaked. Anyone who watched them coached by Atkinson last season knew they were poised to make a leap. It's getting to that time when people on this forum stop deluding themselves about this being the most valuable asset in the league."
great ones. I know we would be losing our mind over that game last night if we still had the pick.
We would be arguing over whether they’re going to make the playoffs. :P
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They're panicking big time after that win over okc. There's 5 to 10 pages of posts since last night
"Also, I know it's crying over spilt milk because there really wasn't a better deal out there, but if IT doesn't come back as IT from last year, the trade for Kyrie will go down as one of the biggest trade thefts ever."
"Eh it's more just the frustration seeping out over Danny Ainge cackling to the bank after dumping this asset right when it peaked. Anyone who watched them coached by Atkinson last season knew they were poised to make a leap. It's getting to that time when people on this forum stop deluding themselves about this being the most valuable asset in the league."
great ones. I know we would be losing our mind over that game last night if we still had the pick.
We would be arguing over whether they’re going to make the playoffs. :P
i hope the cavs play them in the first round of the playoffs somehow...
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They're panicking big time after that win over okc. There's 5 to 10 pages of posts since last night
"Also, I know it's crying over spilt milk because there really wasn't a better deal out there, but if IT doesn't come back as IT from last year, the trade for Kyrie will go down as one of the biggest trade thefts ever."
"Eh it's more just the frustration seeping out over Danny Ainge cackling to the bank after dumping this asset right when it peaked. Anyone who watched them coached by Atkinson last season knew they were poised to make a leap. It's getting to that time when people on this forum stop deluding themselves about this being the most valuable asset in the league."
great ones. I know we would be losing our mind over that game last night if we still had the pick.
We would be arguing over whether they’re going to make the playoffs. :P
i hope the cavs play them in the first round of the playoffs somehow...
and lose.
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Time for Okafor and Nik to have breakout seasons...go Nets!!
I really didnt like the Jah trade for us. Liked it for both Philly and Brooklyn.
Okafor is talented, but Booker was such a grinder. Really good defensive player who competes. Have to imagine he contributes more to winning than Jah does for the rest of the year.
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They're panicking big time after that win over okc. There's 5 to 10 pages of posts since last night
"Also, I know it's crying over spilt milk because there really wasn't a better deal out there, but if IT doesn't come back as IT from last year, the trade for Kyrie will go down as one of the biggest trade thefts ever."
"Eh it's more just the frustration seeping out over Danny Ainge cackling to the bank after dumping this asset right when it peaked. Anyone who watched them coached by Atkinson last season knew they were poised to make a leap. It's getting to that time when people on this forum stop deluding themselves about this being the most valuable asset in the league."
Funny thing is, the most valuable asset in the league right now might be the Kings pick and it seems likely that we own that pick! ;D
Imo
Nets pick : mid/late lottery
Lakers pick : mid/late lottery
Kings pick : mid/early lottery
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Yeah, as someone who was (and still is) not a supporter of the trade, I can safely say I was in the minority from Day 1.
What needs to happen for you to change your mind? A ring? The pick to be in the 20's? Or is it a principled position?
I am actually surprised to see SL take this position.
I imagine he isn't this extreme, but for some people, it's not even about where the pick lands, but how the player taken with the pick (or within range of the pick) turns out. Regardless of how great (and young) Kyrie is and continues to be, it could be 5-7 years before those against the trade finally accept (or reject) it.
What they aren't taking into consideration is IT's age, health, and contract situation and the fact that we are now set to compete for the present and the future with Kyrie at the helm. As I recall, SL was also a huge fan of Crowder's contract (me, too, btw).
I can't speak for SL but I'm also still cautious about this trade (which is a couple of steps up from where I started).
The current situation far improves my opinion of the trade. After all, everything that could go right for the Celtics in this deal has gone right (or wrong from Cleveland's standpoint):
- IT is still hurt
- Crowder isn't playing particularly well
- Zizic isn't seeing the floor.
- The Nets have 10 wins before January
- Kyrie is playing defense (although that's slipped lately), has been relatively healthy and hasn't fallen off the (flat) Earth
- The Cs are winning
Much of that could not be reasonably predicted when this deal was done. As I've said before, it's all coming up Millhouse for Ainge. But there's a lot that could still reasonably happen to make this deal go south again.
- Irving could choose not to re-sign in two years
- Irving could go back to playing no defense (this is more of a concern lately) or get hurt and start playing 50 games again (as he's been prone to do)
- IT could get perfectly healthy and with that injury may resign for less than the max
- Brooklyn could go on a losing streak and the pick ends up being Bagley who looks more and more like a generational talent
Is any of that likely to happen? Probably not but any single one of those really colors the deal. Then there's the normal stuff - IT coming back and playing well, Crowder's shooting has been improving, Zizic will improve, etc.
So I'm not sure that there will be a verdict on this for a while yet. If the Cs win the title then that's the definitive answer. Let's hope for that outcome.
Major TP's for the "coming up Millhouse" line.
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not you per se, but everyone in this thread makes it seem like they were always on board with the trade, which just wasn't the case. Most of this board was very upset when the trade was made, calling for Danny's head, saying we traded a top 3 pick for a lesser player and giving up a starter, etc.
I was always on board with the trade from a talent standpoint, but I was, and still am, sad to see Isaiah go. Kyrie is better than him (it hurts to say that even though I'm basically a Kyrie fanboy at this point), and the team appears to be a lot better with Kyrie--I always assumed that would be the case but it still stung to lose Isaiah who truly embraced playing for this team and seemed to love the city and fans.
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That cavs forum thread is highly entertaining. There's new posts panicking on an hourly basis
"First it was as long as this is a top 3 pick it will be good.
Then it was as long as this pick was a top 5 things are gravy.
Then 5-7 would be good
Now I see people people will be happy in the 7-10 range.
Seems like people are going to talk themselves into wherever this pick lands. This is not a very good trend. By the end of the month I expect to see as long as it's in the 10-13 range.
This was obviously the best deal available and I get why they would think this would be a high pick but as of right now we're getting screwed."
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That cavs forum thread is highly entertaining. There's new posts panicking on an hourly basis
"First it was as long as this is a top 3 pick it will be good.
Then it was as long as this pick was a top 5 things are gravy.
Then 5-7 would be good
Now I see people people will be happy in the 7-10 range.
Seems like people are going to talk themselves into wherever this pick lands. This is not a very good trend. By the end of the month I expect to see as long as it's in the 10-13 range.
This was obviously the best deal available and I get why they would think this would be a high pick but as of right now we're getting screwed."
Nice.
For me, if the pick lands outside the top 5 I will be happy. I feel pretty confident at least 4 teams will finish below the Nets and I wouldn't be surprised to see the pick wind up 9th if things all break the right way.
Of course, this being the Cavs, the Nets will have the 9th worst record and get the #1 pick anyway.
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"OH GOD ANYTHING BUT THAT. I already can't stand Danny Ainge. A decade of Celtics dominance in the East would be the worst possible scenario for LeBron's twilight.
Would certainly add more salt in the wound.
Couldn't pry away Tatum or Brown and then they traded us the lesser pick.
Thats why I root for the Lakers this year:chuckle:
Bagley or Ayton + Tatum, Brown and Kyrie? Scary for the years to come.
Lets hope the Nets start to fall off though"
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The best part is they are dreaming they "can" trade the pick and LBJ will stay to compete 2~3years
Gilbert will NOT trade that pick unless Lebron claim to stay and he will NOT, so no trade and Lebron will leave, the beauty of strategy by Danny
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The best part is they are dreaming they "can" trade the pick and LBJ will stay to compete 2~3years
Gilbert will NOT trade that pick unless Lebron claim to stay and he will NOT, so no trade and Lebron will leave, the beauty of strategy by Danny
haha
Also I've seen some of them want to trade it for steven adams, paul george, etc. they think other trams aren't aware that the nets are better than before lol
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The best part is they are dreaming they "can" trade the pick and LBJ will stay to compete 2~3years
Gilbert will NOT trade that pick unless Lebron claim to stay and he will NOT, so no trade and Lebron will leave, the beauty of strategy by Danny
haha
Also I've seen some of them want to trade it for steven adams, paul george, etc. they think other trams aren't aware that the nets are better than before lol
Most of the rumored guys probably won't even be available LOL.
Like if OKC figures it out in the coming months, no chance of Adams/George. Pelicans aren't trading Cousins. DeAndre Jordan may be an option but he's not threading the needle at all lol (esp. at expense of Tristan and Nets Pick). Already missed out on Bledsoe (who would have really helped them IMO).
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"OH GOD ANYTHING BUT THAT. I already can't stand Danny Ainge. A decade of Celtics dominance in the East would be the worst possible scenario for LeBron's twilight.
Would certainly add more salt in the wound.
Couldn't pry away Tatum or Brown and then they traded us the lesser pick.
Thats why I root for the Lakers this year:chuckle:
Bagley or Ayton + Tatum, Brown and Kyrie? Scary for the years to come.
Lets hope the Nets start to fall off though"
They do know that the Lakers pick will convey as the Sacramento pick next season, right? ::)
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That cavs forum thread is highly entertaining. There's new posts panicking on an hourly basis
"First it was as long as this is a top 3 pick it will be good.
Then it was as long as this pick was a top 5 things are gravy.
Then 5-7 would be good
Now I see people people will be happy in the 7-10 range.
Seems like people are going to talk themselves into wherever this pick lands. This is not a very good trend. By the end of the month I expect to see as long as it's in the 10-13 range.
This was obviously the best deal available and I get why they would think this would be a high pick but as of right now we're getting screwed."
Keep up the updates. I'm loving it. TP
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i hope the nets don't trade Dinwiddie but I fear they will, he's been great for them
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Now they're bickering. Some are furious
"Every time they win, you have a long explanation as to why it happened because it allows you to hold on to your original premise that they are one of the worst teams in the nba. Bottom line is they are playing without two major pieces and still competive right now.
We all thought they were going to be horrible. We were wrong, they are just below average. Some of us have just come to terms with what is actually happening, not what we want to happen"
"You guys need to stop coming up with excuses on why the Nets win. Someone is playing, someone is not, someone is having a career year. It's time to admit the Nets aren't as bad as we needed them to be and if Isiah doesn't come back close to the player he was last year then we got Edited. Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.ed in the Kyrie trade. They have a good coach and they play hard, two things that the teams worse than them don't have in some cases. Keep the pick and expect it to be in the 10-15 range, don't raise your expectations."
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Now they're bickering. Some are furious
"Every time they win, you have a long explanation as to why it happened because it allows you to hold on to your original premise that they are one of the worst teams in the nba. Bottom line is they are playing without two major pieces and still competive right now.
We all thought they were going to be horrible. We were wrong, they are just below average. Some of us have just come to terms with what is actually happening, not what we want to happen"
"You guys need to stop coming up with excuses on why the Nets win. Someone is playing, someone is not, someone is having a career year. It's time to admit the Nets aren't as bad as we needed them to be and if Isiah doesn't come back close to the player he was last year then we got ****ed in the Kyrie trade. They have a good coach and they play hard, two things that the teams worse than them don't have in some cases. Keep the pick and expect it to be in the 10-15 range, don't raise your expectations."
Nets are two games out of the playoffs right now. They are definitely playing significantly better than Orlando right now. I forget who was saying they would win 35 games
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Now they're bickering. Some are furious
"Every time they win, you have a long explanation as to why it happened because it allows you to hold on to your original premise that they are one of the worst teams in the nba. Bottom line is they are playing without two major pieces and still competive right now.
We all thought they were going to be horrible. We were wrong, they are just below average. Some of us have just come to terms with what is actually happening, not what we want to happen"
"You guys need to stop coming up with excuses on why the Nets win. Someone is playing, someone is not, someone is having a career year. It's time to admit the Nets aren't as bad as we needed them to be and if Isiah doesn't come back close to the player he was last year then we got ****ed in the Kyrie trade. They have a good coach and they play hard, two things that the teams worse than them don't have in some cases. Keep the pick and expect it to be in the 10-15 range, don't raise your expectations."
It's so beautiful!
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Now they're bickering. Some are furious
"Every time they win, you have a long explanation as to why it happened because it allows you to hold on to your original premise that they are one of the worst teams in the nba. Bottom line is they are playing without two major pieces and still competive right now.
We all thought they were going to be horrible. We were wrong, they are just below average. Some of us have just come to terms with what is actually happening, not what we want to happen"
"You guys need to stop coming up with excuses on why the Nets win. Someone is playing, someone is not, someone is having a career year. It's time to admit the Nets aren't as bad as we needed them to be and if Isiah doesn't come back close to the player he was last year then we got ****ed in the Kyrie trade. They have a good coach and they play hard, two things that the teams worse than them don't have in some cases. Keep the pick and expect it to be in the 10-15 range, don't raise your expectations."
It's so beautiful!
I do agree with the posters there about how ridiculous some people are talking about how lucky the Nets have been every game. The Nets are in every game and their point differential shows they are right about where they should be. It would be amazing if they actually made a small trade to compete for the 8th spot. Interestingly I don't think Okafor got off the bench for them last night.
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There’s one guy who keeps claiming other teams are injured when the nets play them and that’s why they win. Nice job ignoring the season ending Lin injury, the bad Russell injury, and the many other nets injuries They had
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Got to see this thread tomorrow. I wouldn't be as upset as normal if we lose
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Now they're bickering. Some are furious
"Every time they win, you have a long explanation as to why it happened because it allows you to hold on to your original premise that they are one of the worst teams in the nba. Bottom line is they are playing without two major pieces and still competive right now.
We all thought they were going to be horrible. We were wrong, they are just below average. Some of us have just come to terms with what is actually happening, not what we want to happen"
"You guys need to stop coming up with excuses on why the Nets win. Someone is playing, someone is not, someone is having a career year. It's time to admit the Nets aren't as bad as we needed them to be and if Isiah doesn't come back close to the player he was last year then we got ****ed in the Kyrie trade. They have a good coach and they play hard, two things that the teams worse than them don't have in some cases. Keep the pick and expect it to be in the 10-15 range, don't raise your expectations."
It's so beautiful!
I do agree with the posters there about how ridiculous some people are talking about how lucky the Nets have been every game. The Nets are in every game and their point differential shows they are right about where they should be. It would be amazing if they actually made a small trade to compete for the 8th spot. Interestingly I don't think Okafor got off the bench for them last night.
He hasn't gotten off the bench in at least a couple weeks, I don't think.
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Cavs fans are convinced we are trolling them today
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We just helped the Cavs by beating the Nets. ???
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Now they're bickering. Some are furious
"Every time they win, you have a long explanation as to why it happened because it allows you to hold on to your original premise that they are one of the worst teams in the nba. Bottom line is they are playing without two major pieces and still competive right now.
We all thought they were going to be horrible. We were wrong, they are just below average. Some of us have just come to terms with what is actually happening, not what we want to happen"
"You guys need to stop coming up with excuses on why the Nets win. Someone is playing, someone is not, someone is having a career year. It's time to admit the Nets aren't as bad as we needed them to be and if Isiah doesn't come back close to the player he was last year then we got ****ed in the Kyrie trade. They have a good coach and they play hard, two things that the teams worse than them don't have in some cases. Keep the pick and expect it to be in the 10-15 range, don't raise your expectations."
It's so beautiful!
I do agree with the posters there about how ridiculous some people are talking about how lucky the Nets have been every game. The Nets are in every game and their point differential shows they are right about where they should be. It would be amazing if they actually made a small trade to compete for the 8th spot. Interestingly I don't think Okafor got off the bench for them last night.
He hasn't gotten off the bench in at least a couple weeks, I don't think.
he appears to be in the rotation now. Guess he finally learned the Nets complicated system such that they feel comfortable with him out there
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I think they looked good against the celtics last night. played hard.
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they might be helped out by that last play, DeMarre Carroll looked in rough shape
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Some joy for Friday from the thread that keeps giving:
"Why the ____ aren't we trading IT for Dinwiddie at this point?"
"It’s a sad world where I’m constantly tuning into Brooklyn games over the Cavs because they’re more competitive. A ____ lottery team, how the ____ is that? I really hope some playoff contenders give up a 1st rounder for DinWiddle and Carroll.
"There's no point talking about the Kyrie trade now.
"Kyrie wanted to leave. I was in favour of still keeping him after the trade request but after reading the stuffs he did, it was pretty evident he wanted to ____ off asap. And him being a ____ didn't help us get a better deal either.
Where we made the mistake is not anticipating IT would never be the same player. Also, not considering how bad his defense would be and how much it would affect us, who were already a poor defensive team. Thats where the front office deserve a lot of criticism. They should have traded IT straight away for a pick or two, and then use that to get Bledsoe."
Can't really find a fan happy with the trade there...
Note they swear a ton, i put in blanks to make it celtic blog forum friendly
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Some joy for Friday from the thread that keeps giving:
"Why the &*^% aren't we trading IT for Dinwiddie at this point?"
"It’s a sad world where I’m constantly tuning into Brooklyn games over the Cavs because they’re more competitive. A *&%$# lottery team, how the &%$% is that? I really hope some playoff contenders give up a 1st rounder for DinWiddle and Carroll.
"There's no point talking about the Kyrie trade now.
"Kyrie wanted to leave. I was in favour of still keeping him after the trade request but after reading the stuffs he did, it was pretty evident he wanted to ____ off asap. And him being a ____ didn't help us get a better deal either.
Where we made the mistake is not anticipating IT would never be the same player. Also, not considering how bad his defense would be and how much it would affect us, who were already a poor defensive team. Thats where the front office deserve a lot of criticism. They should have traded IT straight away for a pick or two, and then use that to get Bledsoe."
Can't really find a fan happy with the trade there...
But it's an even sadder world when somebody is thinking "Why the &*^% aren't we trading IT for Dinwiddie at this point?"
Mike
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Some joy for Friday from the thread that keeps giving:
"Why the &*^% aren't we trading IT for Dinwiddie at this point?"
"It’s a sad world where I’m constantly tuning into Brooklyn games over the Cavs because they’re more competitive. A *&%$# lottery team, how the &%$% is that? I really hope some playoff contenders give up a 1st rounder for DinWiddle and Carroll.
"There's no point talking about the Kyrie trade now.
"Kyrie wanted to leave. I was in favour of still keeping him after the trade request but after reading the stuffs he did, it was pretty evident he wanted to ____ off asap. And him being a ____ didn't help us get a better deal either.
Where we made the mistake is not anticipating IT would never be the same player. Also, not considering how bad his defense would be and how much it would affect us, who were already a poor defensive team. Thats where the front office deserve a lot of criticism. They should have traded IT straight away for a pick or two, and then use that to get Bledsoe."
Can't really find a fan happy with the trade there...
But it's an even sadder world when somebody is thinking "Why the &*^% aren't we trading IT for Dinwiddie at this point?"
Mike
On the ringer podcast they were talking about how IT's next contract is going down in value every day. Which stinks for him.
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Thomas had a serious hip injury and didn't play for a long time. I don't know why anyone would expect him to be 100% immediately. It will take him 20 games to really get back into form. I find overreactions by all fans just funny. Thomas will likely never match last year (even if he was 100% healthy that was unlikely), but he will certainly get a lot better than he is right now. Just the way injuries work.
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Thomas had a serious hip injury and didn't play for a long time. I don't know why anyone would expect him to be 100% immediately. It will take him 20 games to really get back into form. I find overreactions by all fans just funny. Thomas will likely never match last year (even if he was 100% healthy that was unlikely), but he will certainly get a lot better than he is right now. Just the way injuries work.
...Except for when they don't. IT's hip is NOT normal and this injury has a chance to be chronic, or even career-ending.
Add to this that he's the smallest player in the league who was already a bad defender, and his game is built on speed, and you have a recipe for potential disaster.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20595342/nba-cleveland-cavaliers-guard-isaiah-thomas-faces-uncertain-return-potentially-career-ending-hip-injury
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Thomas had a serious hip injury and didn't play for a long time. I don't know why anyone would expect him to be 100% immediately. It will take him 20 games to really get back into form. I find overreactions by all fans just funny. Thomas will likely never match last year (even if he was 100% healthy that was unlikely), but he will certainly get a lot better than he is right now. Just the way injuries work.
...Except for when they don't. IT's hip is NOT normal and this injury has a chance to be chronic, or even career-ending.
Add to this that he's the smallest player in the league who was already a bad defender, and his game is built on speed, and you have a recipe for potential disaster.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20595342/nba-cleveland-cavaliers-guard-isaiah-thomas-faces-uncertain-return-potentially-career-ending-hip-injury
That's the thing that was so scary is the nature of this injury. Other players have more ways to change their game also. Marc gasol, through age and injury has slowed down, but he has really
Increased his range offsetting some of the slight lost quickness. At 5'9, if he loses quickness, IT can't reinvent himself in he post or develop a fadeaway to offset his lost quickness. Also, it isn't just fans. There is a lot of smoke that the front office is open to trading him. It's clearly gone worse than they expected.