CelticsStrong
Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: perks-a-beast on November 27, 2017, 11:24:12 AM
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MEM can thrown in Bron Bron's buddy Chalmers to sweeten the deal a bit (especially since CLE might be losing Rose)
Gasol is 33 but is still one of the most versatile bigs in the game. Still has 2 years left on contract after this year. Would be dynamic in a CLE-GS series since GS has lots of trouble guarding the interior. MEM is on the verge of a rebuild anyways.
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Cleveland should seriously consider some form of Thompson, salary, and BK pick for Gasol. Better yet, Thompson, Love, Thomas, and BK pick for Gasol and Conley. Who says no?
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Doubt CLE would consider doing that unless LBJ promised to stay in CLE, which by all accounts he won't. CLE needs to have the option to build for the future. Losing LBJ after the season is too big a risk for this move.
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Doubt CLE would consider doing that unless LBJ promised to stay in CLE, which by all accounts he won't. CLE needs to have the option to build for the future. Losing LBJ after the season is too big a risk for this move.
I just don't see what other teams are a threat to sign LeBron. Why wouldn't he stay in the JV east on his hometown team if Love, Thomas, and Gasol were all there?
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I would 100% do it for both sides.
Gasol and Love will at least keep you competitive for the next few years, regardless if Lebron leaves.
If you use the BKN pick and do a full rebuild, you won't see the playoffs for a half decade.
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I don't think Gasol and Love is a great fit for the Cavs. If I'm Cleveland, I'd rather just trade Love for Gasol straight up and keep Thompson to do the dirty work as a bench big and keep the BKN pick.
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Doubt CLE would consider doing that unless LBJ promised to stay in CLE, which by all accounts he won't. CLE needs to have the option to build for the future. Losing LBJ after the season is too big a risk for this move.
I just don't see what other teams are a threat to sign LeBron. Why wouldn't he stay in the JV east on his hometown team if Love, Thomas, and Gasol were all there?
Right - and honestly, if you're Cleveland, you don't trade away contention just so you'll suck 25% less than you would otherwise if Lebron leaves. If I were GM there, I'd go all in right now. Go for a title right now. Lebron is 33 and if he leaves it's only your fault if you don't put him in a position to win. Basically: If Lebron leaves, you'll suck either way. If the impulse is truly to not suck after Lebron leaves, then you might as well trade him too! The goal is to win a title, so go get guys that would get you there.
Then again, I sure hope they don't trade for Gasol.
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Doubt CLE would consider doing that unless LBJ promised to stay in CLE, which by all accounts he won't. CLE needs to have the option to build for the future. Losing LBJ after the season is too big a risk for this move.
I just don't see what other teams are a threat to sign LeBron. Why wouldn't he stay in the JV east on his hometown team if Love, Thomas, and Gasol were all there?
Right - and honestly, if you're Cleveland, you don't trade away contention just so you'll suck 25% than you would otherwise if Lebron leaves. If I were GM there, I'd go all in right now. Go for a title right now. Lebron is 33 and if he leaves it's only your fault if you don't put him in a position to win. Basically: If Lebron leaves, you'll suck either way. If the impulse is truly to not suck after Lebron leaves, then you might as well trade him too! The goal is to win a title, so go get guys that would get you there.
Then again, I sure hope they don't trade for Gasol.
If they believe Lebron is leaving, then they absolutely should not trade the BKN pick unless they get a young star signed long term back in return.
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Doubt CLE would consider doing that unless LBJ promised to stay in CLE, which by all accounts he won't. CLE needs to have the option to build for the future. Losing LBJ after the season is too big a risk for this move.
I just don't see what other teams are a threat to sign LeBron. Why wouldn't he stay in the JV east on his hometown team if Love, Thomas, and Gasol were all there?
Right - and honestly, if you're Cleveland, you don't trade away contention just so you'll suck 25% than you would otherwise if Lebron leaves. If I were GM there, I'd go all in right now. Go for a title right now. Lebron is 33 and if he leaves it's only your fault if you don't put him in a position to win. Basically: If Lebron leaves, you'll suck either way. If the impulse is truly to not suck after Lebron leaves, then you might as well trade him too! The goal is to win a title, so go get guys that would get you there.
Then again, I sure hope they don't trade for Gasol.
If they believe Lebron is leaving, then they absolutely should not trade the BKN pick unless they get a young star signed long term back in return.
The BKN pick by itself doesn't get you anything, really. There's a good chance it isn't even top-5. IF they had the chance to package that with other pieces to get Gasol, that gives them a chance at a title - the second one the city has EVER had. As opposed to what - gambling on some unknown?
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Usually, I'd be against Cleveland trading the BK pick but I think it would makes sense for them to do it for Gasol. He gives them a legitimate chance to win the championship this year and his presence could help convince LeBron to stay.
If LeBron leaves, they can still field a competitive team in the East the next few years by re-signing Isaiah (IT, JR, Crowder, Love, Gasol, Korver, Shump). They'd also have the option of trading Gasol, Love, and/or Crowder in the summer if they wanted to get younger, acquire picks, and tank.
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The Brooklyn pick has to be about half as valuable as it was at the end of last season. Since then
Chicago has become one of the worst teams in league losing Butler, Wade and Rondo
Atlanta has become one of worst teams in league losing Milsap, Hardaway and Howard.
Dallas has become a dumpster fire with further aging of Dirk, benching of Noel and a 5-15 start
Clippers have become a surprise blow it up option after losing 11 of 13 and having injuries to 60% of their starting lineup
The Kings and Suns have predictably sucked
Even the early darlings of the league, the Magic, have lost 8 straight and are only one game up on the Nets.
This is unfortunately, to say nothing of the overachieving Lakers who are one game better than the Nets.
What is that pick going to be 10th?
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Right now BKN has the 6th worst record in the league (tied with Memphis). I expect BKN to finish ahead of Atlanta and Chicago in the East, but finish behind every other Eastern team. So the question is how many teams in the West will actually finish with a worse record than the Nets. Right now the Mavs, Suns, and Kings are all worse, they are tied with the Grizzlies and the Clippers and Lakers aren't far behind (neither are the Magic, Hornets, Thunder, or Jazz, but I'd be surprised if any of those teams finish worse then the Nets). I'd expect Memphis and LAC to finish ahead of the Nets, which just leaves the Lakers and the 5 teams currently worse. Any of those Western teams could pick up some wins, but any could easily finish behind the Nets. that puts the Nets as the 7th worst team at best (without some very strange things going on or teams going into full bore tank). Let's say they end up with the 7th pick. Robert Williams or someone like him probably isn't a difference maker, but what if they finish 5th worst or win one of the lottery slots. Bamba is projected at 5th on many mocks. Bamba absolutely could be a difference maker. You don't trade a chance at a difference maker for a 33 year old center that only moderately increases your chances of winning a title this year, if James is going to leave. It is an absolutely terrible move for your franchise. Now if James indicates he'll opt in or you believe making the trade greatly increases your chances of keeping him, then you have to make the trade. The thing is, James isn't going to tell you anything, because James has no idea what he is going to do and he won't till after the season, when he makes all of these decisions.
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Right now BKN has the 6th worst record in the league (tied with Memphis). I expect BKN to finish ahead of Atlanta and Chicago in the East, but finish behind every other Eastern team. So the question is how many teams in the West will actually finish with a worse record than the Nets. Right now the Mavs, Suns, and Kings are all worse, they are tied with the Grizzlies and the Clippers and Lakers aren't far behind (neither are the Magic, Hornets, Thunder, or Jazz, but I'd be surprised if any of those teams finish worse then the Nets). I'd expect Memphis and LAC to finish ahead of the Nets, which just leaves the Lakers and the 5 teams currently worse. Any of those Western teams could pick up some wins, but any could easily finish behind the Nets. that puts the Nets as the 7th worst team at best (without some very strange things going on or teams going into full bore tank). Let's say they end up with the 7th pick. Robert Williams or someone like him probably isn't a difference maker, but what if they finish 5th worst or win one of the lottery slots. Bamba is projected at 5th on many mocks. Bamba absolutely could be a difference maker. You don't trade a chance at a difference maker for a 33 year old center that only moderately increases your chances of winning a title this year, if James is going to leave. It is an absolutely terrible move for your franchise. Now if James indicates he'll opt in or you believe making the trade greatly increases your chances of keeping him, then you have to make the trade. The thing is, James isn't going to tell you anything, because James has no idea what he is going to do and he won't till after the season, when he makes all of these decisions.
Right now BKN has the 6th worst record in the league (tied with Memphis). I expect BKN to finish ahead of Atlanta and Chicago in the East, but finish behind every other Eastern team. So the question is how many teams in the West will actually finish with a worse record than the Nets. Right now the Mavs, Suns, and Kings are all worse, they are tied with the Grizzlies and the Clippers and Lakers aren't far behind (neither are the Magic, Hornets, Thunder, or Jazz, but I'd be surprised if any of those teams finish worse then the Nets). I'd expect Memphis and LAC to finish ahead of the Nets, which just leaves the Lakers and the 5 teams currently worse. Any of those Western teams could pick up some wins, but any could easily finish behind the Nets. that puts the Nets as the 7th worst team at best (without some very strange things going on or teams going into full bore tank). Let's say they end up with the 7th pick. Robert Williams or someone like him probably isn't a difference maker, but what if they finish 5th worst or win one of the lottery slots. Bamba is projected at 5th on many mocks. Bamba absolutely could be a difference maker. You don't trade a chance at a difference maker for a 33 year old center that only moderately increases your chances of winning a title this year, if James is going to leave. It is an absolutely terrible move for your franchise. Now if James indicates he'll opt in or you believe making the trade greatly increases your chances of keeping him, then you have to make the trade. The thing is, James isn't going to tell you anything, because James has no idea what he is going to do and he won't till after the season, when he makes all of these decisions.
I am a bit surprised you think the Magic are suddenly not in contention to be really bad. They had a very good start to the season but it was mostly behind career shooting from a bunch of players including a really ridiculous start by Gordon. They are a team that won 29 games last year and really haven't added any significant difference makers. Their biggest addition was probably Simmons who is an ok role player. They also haven't just been losing, they have been getting completely blown out during this 8 game losing streak only one loss by less than 8 points. What are you seeing there that makes you have any confidence they will win more games than the Nets?
Another thing to keep in mind is that the Nets have played a really road heavy schedule this month. They will finish the month having played 9 games on the road and 4 at home including 2 west coast trips. The fact that they have won 4 games so far on this stretch and have been in just about every other game really shows how well they have been playing. I think there is a very reasonable chance they end up something like 9th or 10th.
We are also getting to the point that teams like the Clippers and Memphis will start giving serious thought to blowing it up. Even if healthy they are not in contention to win a playoff series. In Memphis in particular nobody knows when Conley can even play again and how good he will be... Achilles injuries are not good.
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Right now BKN has the 6th worst record in the league (tied with Memphis). I expect BKN to finish ahead of Atlanta and Chicago in the East, but finish behind every other Eastern team. So the question is how many teams in the West will actually finish with a worse record than the Nets. Right now the Mavs, Suns, and Kings are all worse, they are tied with the Grizzlies and the Clippers and Lakers aren't far behind (neither are the Magic, Hornets, Thunder, or Jazz, but I'd be surprised if any of those teams finish worse then the Nets). I'd expect Memphis and LAC to finish ahead of the Nets, which just leaves the Lakers and the 5 teams currently worse. Any of those Western teams could pick up some wins, but any could easily finish behind the Nets. that puts the Nets as the 7th worst team at best (without some very strange things going on or teams going into full bore tank). Let's say they end up with the 7th pick. Robert Williams or someone like him probably isn't a difference maker, but what if they finish 5th worst or win one of the lottery slots. Bamba is projected at 5th on many mocks. Bamba absolutely could be a difference maker. You don't trade a chance at a difference maker for a 33 year old center that only moderately increases your chances of winning a title this year, if James is going to leave. It is an absolutely terrible move for your franchise. Now if James indicates he'll opt in or you believe making the trade greatly increases your chances of keeping him, then you have to make the trade. The thing is, James isn't going to tell you anything, because James has no idea what he is going to do and he won't till after the season, when he makes all of these decisions.
I am a bit surprised you think the Magic are suddenly not in contention to be really bad. They had a very good start to the season but it was mostly behind career shooting from a bunch of players including a really ridiculous start by Gordon. They are a team that won 29 games last year and really haven't added any significant difference makers. Their biggest addition was probably Simmons who is an ok role player. They also haven't just been losing, they have been getting completely blown out during this 8 game losing streak only one loss by less than 8 points. What are you seeing there that makes you have any confidence they will win more games than the Nets?
Another thing to keep in mind is that the Nets have played a really road heavy schedule this month. They will finish the month having played 9 games on the road and 4 at home including 2 west coast trips. The fact that they have won 4 games so far on this stretch and have been in just about every other game really shows how well they have been playing. I think there is a very reasonable chance they end up something like 9th or 10th.
We are also getting to the point that teams like the Clippers and Memphis will start giving serious thought to blowing it up. Even if healthy they are not in contention to win a playoff series. In Memphis in particular nobody knows when Conley can even play again and how good he will be... Achilles injuries are not good.
Brooklyn has played a lot of "bad" teams. They've played Portland, Denver, Phoenix, and Utah twice already. They've played the Lakers, Grizzlies, and Warriors once each. In the East, they've played Orlando and Cleveland twice, and Atlanta, Indiana, NY, and Boston all once. They have Houston next, but then play Dallas and Atlanta twice in a row. The next month after that, they play a much more difficult schedule. So I could see them win 3 of their next 4, but then lose something like 17 of 18. They aren't a good team (and this is from the guy that predicted them 6th worst before we traded the pick).
Orlando has lost 8 in a row, 6 on the road (funny the road only matters for BKN, not ORL), but those 8 games have collectively been pretty strong competition at Denver, Golden State, Portland, Minnesota, Boston, and Philly and home against Utah and Indiana. Utah is the only team below .500 in that group. Of the other Western teams below .500, the Magic have only played the Suns and Grizzlies, beating both of them. They've only played the Nets twice, the Bulls, and the Hornets from the East of the below .500 teams. The Magic's schedule has been front loaded with the better teams. Their next 4 games should be tough, but after that it opens up a lot more for them. A young team winning 29 games the prior season, should improve. I expect the Magic to finish in the mid-30's for wins, which I can't see Brooklyn getting to.
The Clippers and Grizzlies could start tanking, but with all those teams tanking they do actually have to play each other which means someone is winning and those two teams have talent they aren't going to trade so I can't see them doing a full bore tank like the Sixers.
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Pretty good idea to both sides for me. I hear people talking about Cleveland holding on to the Brooklyn pick for "the rebuild" but I think they have a better chance of overall success holding on to some chance that Lebron stays rather than a chance of building around an OK Brooklyn pick. That pick is no guarantee for future success in an Eastern Conference with promising teams like Boston, Philly, Milwaukee, and maybe even NYK if they build well around Porzingis.
I think Moranis' Love for Gasol deal is sensible as well for Cleveland and like it a little more since Love has been pretty poor in their NBA Finals matchups. Although I don't think Memphis would prefer Love to the other package and wonder if they even would prefer Love to Gasol? They'd then need to go find a center if they make that swap.
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Pretty good idea to both sides for me. I hear people talking about Cleveland holding on to the Brooklyn pick for "the rebuild" but I think they have a better chance of overall success holding on to some chance that Lebron stays rather than a chance of building around an OK Brooklyn pick. That pick is no guarantee for future success in an Eastern Conference with promising teams like Boston, Philly, Milwaukee, and maybe even NYK if they build well around Porzingis.
I think Moranis' Love for Gasol deal is sensible as well for Cleveland and like it a little more since Love has been pretty poor in their NBA Finals matchups. Although I don't think Memphis would prefer Love to the other package and wonder if they even would prefer Love to Gasol? They'd then need to go find a center if they make that swap.
Love is a lot younger than Gasol and presumably could be re-signed to pair with Conley and keep Memphis relevant enough and for a longer window. I'd imagine Cleveland might give up Zizic or Osman if needed to get the deal done as well.
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Right now BKN has the 6th worst record in the league (tied with Memphis). I expect BKN to finish ahead of Atlanta and Chicago in the East, but finish behind every other Eastern team. So the question is how many teams in the West will actually finish with a worse record than the Nets. Right now the Mavs, Suns, and Kings are all worse, they are tied with the Grizzlies and the Clippers and Lakers aren't far behind (neither are the Magic, Hornets, Thunder, or Jazz, but I'd be surprised if any of those teams finish worse then the Nets). I'd expect Memphis and LAC to finish ahead of the Nets, which just leaves the Lakers and the 5 teams currently worse. Any of those Western teams could pick up some wins, but any could easily finish behind the Nets. that puts the Nets as the 7th worst team at best (without some very strange things going on or teams going into full bore tank). Let's say they end up with the 7th pick. Robert Williams or someone like him probably isn't a difference maker, but what if they finish 5th worst or win one of the lottery slots. Bamba is projected at 5th on many mocks. Bamba absolutely could be a difference maker. You don't trade a chance at a difference maker for a 33 year old center that only moderately increases your chances of winning a title this year, if James is going to leave. It is an absolutely terrible move for your franchise. Now if James indicates he'll opt in or you believe making the trade greatly increases your chances of keeping him, then you have to make the trade. The thing is, James isn't going to tell you anything, because James has no idea what he is going to do and he won't till after the season, when he makes all of these decisions.
I am a bit surprised you think the Magic are suddenly not in contention to be really bad. They had a very good start to the season but it was mostly behind career shooting from a bunch of players including a really ridiculous start by Gordon. They are a team that won 29 games last year and really haven't added any significant difference makers. Their biggest addition was probably Simmons who is an ok role player. They also haven't just been losing, they have been getting completely blown out during this 8 game losing streak only one loss by less than 8 points. What are you seeing there that makes you have any confidence they will win more games than the Nets?
Another thing to keep in mind is that the Nets have played a really road heavy schedule this month. They will finish the month having played 9 games on the road and 4 at home including 2 west coast trips. The fact that they have won 4 games so far on this stretch and have been in just about every other game really shows how well they have been playing. I think there is a very reasonable chance they end up something like 9th or 10th.
We are also getting to the point that teams like the Clippers and Memphis will start giving serious thought to blowing it up. Even if healthy they are not in contention to win a playoff series. In Memphis in particular nobody knows when Conley can even play again and how good he will be... Achilles injuries are not good.
Brooklyn has played a lot of "bad" teams. They've played Portland, Denver, Phoenix, and Utah twice already. They've played the Lakers, Grizzlies, and Warriors once each. In the East, they've played Orlando and Cleveland twice, and Atlanta, Indiana, NY, and Boston all once. They have Houston next, but then play Dallas and Atlanta twice in a row. The next month after that, they play a much more difficult schedule. So I could see them win 3 of their next 4, but then lose something like 17 of 18. They aren't a good team (and this is from the guy that predicted them 6th worst before we traded the pick).
Orlando has lost 8 in a row, 6 on the road (funny the road only matters for BKN, not ORL), but those 8 games have collectively been pretty strong competition at Denver, Golden State, Portland, Minnesota, Boston, and Philly and home against Utah and Indiana. Utah is the only team below .500 in that group. Of the other Western teams below .500, the Magic have only played the Suns and Grizzlies, beating both of them. They've only played the Nets twice, the Bulls, and the Hornets from the East of the below .500 teams. The Magic's schedule has been front loaded with the better teams. Their next 4 games should be tough, but after that it opens up a lot more for them. A young team winning 29 games the prior season, should improve. I expect the Magic to finish in the mid-30's for wins, which I can't see Brooklyn getting to.
The Clippers and Grizzlies could start tanking, but with all those teams tanking they do actually have to play each other which means someone is winning and those two teams have talent they aren't going to trade so I can't see them doing a full bore tank like the Sixers.
I hadn't paid attention to the fact that that many of the magic games were on the road just noticed the blowout scores (so fair point there). That being said, they just haven't been competitive and it is hard to imagine 20 point losses become wins at home. Perhaps they will play a lot better at home throughout the year. Still can't believe you really see them winning in the mid 30's? That is pretty wild.
They also really are not that young a team. Vucivic probably is what he is at 27. They have been playing Ross, Simmons, Augustin, Mack pretty heavy minutes throughout the season. Those guys aren't old by any stretch, but I don't think anyone expects big improvements from them. This is Fournier's 6th season. Do you really see him taking a big leap? It seems like Payton, Gordon and Issaac will possibly improve, however Isaac isn't ready for this year. They have completely given up on Mario.
It is just a bad team. Making the claim that the Nets are clearly worse than the Magic becomes even more questionable when you throw in the fact that the Nets will get Russell back at some point... Rosters just don't speak to one team being clearly better than the other.
Edit: I will also admit that I was impressed to them to start the season. That being said digging in deeper it was based on insane 3 point shooting from guys that are not very good shooters.
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20 point losses to good teams on the road become wins at home against bad teams.
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20 point losses to good teams on the road become wins at home against bad teams.
Lol. You honestly crack me up. They lost by 20 to Philly without Simmons. They lost by 40! to a Jazz team playing horrible basketball at home. They lost by 8 to the Pacers at home. They fell behind by 40 against us (and as well as we have played we haven't had a lot of laughers like that). Home, road, good or bad, they are playing awful the last 8 games. No way to paint it any differently right now..