Celtics Blog Forums

Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Roy H. on November 18, 2017, 09:17:07 PM

Title: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Roy H. on November 18, 2017, 09:17:07 PM
If so, what do you see in this kid?

If you need rebounds out of your backup PG, I guess he’s okay. Otherwise, he’s got to be one of the worst rotation players in the NBA.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: azzenfrost on November 18, 2017, 09:19:33 PM
He has the best defensive rating in the team according to basketball-reference. But I don't know how accurate that site is.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on November 18, 2017, 09:32:24 PM
NO
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Neurotic Guy on November 18, 2017, 09:41:53 PM
Sorry to rain on this parade.  Love the guy.  Great energy ALWAYS.   Sometimes it causes problems for him, sometimes for the opponent.   Still young.  Will keep getting better.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Roy H. on November 18, 2017, 09:44:52 PM
Sorry to rain on this parade.  Love the guy.  Great energy ALWAYS.   Sometimes it causes problems for him, sometimes for the opponent.   Still young.  Will keep getting better.

Has he gotten better?
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: colincb on November 18, 2017, 09:55:46 PM
http://bkref.com/tiny/hzXr4

He's been better than Smart, but both have been disappointing.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Darío SpanishFan on November 18, 2017, 10:00:35 PM
Here's one. Energy, rebounding, defense, rookie contract. You can't have ten stars on a team, it's a good backup.

Hopefuly he will improve his shot selection a bit and improve his %.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: SCeltic34 on November 18, 2017, 10:00:42 PM
I've been a supporter and was still high on Rozier even if he didn't improve much over the course of last season.  He's a remarkably fluid athlete who could be a solid scorer if he put his ball-handling, quickness, and decision making together.  His game is herky-jerky yet at the same time smooth- it seems like he glides with the ball at times and his explosiveness seems effortless.

I'm beginning to lose faith however since he continues to shoot poor percentages despite good looks (esp from 3).  His decision making is maddeningly poor at times.  And he consistently loses his man on defense, leading to open perimeter shots for the other team.  He just hasn't improved much.

I like his energy and rebounding and I'm still keeping my mind open about him, but won't shed any tears if we trade or don't re-sign him.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Jiri Welsch on November 18, 2017, 10:04:20 PM
I think he's clutch. I like him for his rebounding as well. Gotta keep our expectations in check
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: jambr380 on November 18, 2017, 10:04:37 PM
Terry has fantastic energy, is in the vicinity for every loose ball/rebound, plays hard D, and can absolutely hit an open 3. I wish he would better figure out his driving game since he moves so well and covers so much ground, but it doesn't look promising.

And, what's your solution, to play Larkin more or unleash Smart's outside shooting on the opponent? As a back-up guard making under $2M/yr, I am not sure what else we could hope for. He is an all-world athlete and proven NBA player - with [believe it or not] still potential to tighten things up on the offensive end.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: DooVoo on November 18, 2017, 10:09:36 PM
What exactly are you expecting from your backup PG? I know we are 15-2 and have reached the point where a fandom has to find flaws or things to complain about but Terry Rozier isn't one of them.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Roy H. on November 18, 2017, 10:10:43 PM
Terry has fantastic energy, is in the vicinity for every loose ball/rebound, plays hard D, and can absolutely hit an open 3. I wish he would better figure out his driving game since he moves so well and covers so much ground, but it doesn't look promising.

And, what's your solution, to play Larkin more or unleash Smart's outside shooting on the opponent? As a back-up guard making under $2M/yr, I am not sure what else we could hope for. He is an all-world athlete and proven NBA player - with [believe it or not] still potential to tighten things up on the offensive end.

He hasn’t improved in three years, he is a really bad shooter, and defensively he always takes the second best guard so his impact is mitigated.

Well over half his minutes have been next to Smart. Having two guys the opponent barely has to cover will eventually bite us.

Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: colincb on November 18, 2017, 10:16:28 PM
Terry has fantastic energy, is in the vicinity for every loose ball/rebound, plays hard D, and can absolutely hit an open 3. I wish he would better figure out his driving game since he moves so well and covers so much ground, but it doesn't look promising.

And, what's your solution, to play Larkin more or unleash Smart's outside shooting on the opponent? As a back-up guard making under $2M/yr, I am not sure what else we could hope for. He is an all-world athlete and proven NBA player - with [believe it or not] still potential to tighten things up on the offensive end.

He hasn’t improved in three years, he is a really bad shooter, and defensively he always takes the second best guard so his impact is mitigated.

Well over half his minutes have been next to Smart. Having two guys the opponent barely has to cover will eventually bite us.

Not sure that answers jambr380's question.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Roy H. on November 18, 2017, 10:19:03 PM
What exactly are you expecting from your backup PG? I know we are 15-2 and have reached the point where a fandom has to find flaws or things to complain about but Terry Rozier isn't one of them.

Do you know how many guys playing 20mpg have both a lower eFG% and fewer assists per game than Rozier?

Zero. Not a single rotation player.

Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Roy H. on November 18, 2017, 10:22:26 PM
Terry has fantastic energy, is in the vicinity for every loose ball/rebound, plays hard D, and can absolutely hit an open 3. I wish he would better figure out his driving game since he moves so well and covers so much ground, but it doesn't look promising.

And, what's your solution, to play Larkin more or unleash Smart's outside shooting on the opponent? As a back-up guard making under $2M/yr, I am not sure what else we could hope for. He is an all-world athlete and proven NBA player - with [believe it or not] still potential to tighten things up on the offensive end.

He hasn’t improved in three years, he is a really bad shooter, and defensively he always takes the second best guard so his impact is mitigated.

Well over half his minutes have been next to Smart. Having two guys the opponent barely has to cover will eventually bite us.

Not sure that answers jambr380's question.

My solution? Acquire a guy who can play. I don’t care if it’s a free agent like Deron, a trade, a D-League call-up, etc. Backup PGs who can’t shoot or pass aren’t worth having, especially when they’re playing beside an even worse shooter.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: kozlodoev on November 18, 2017, 10:24:19 PM
What exactly are you expecting from your backup PG? I know we are 15-2 and have reached the point where a fandom has to find flaws or things to complain about but Terry Rozier isn't one of them.
No, I think we've reached the point where we're so far removed from 2008-2010 that the fandom has forgotten what a good backup player looks like.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: tstorey_97 on November 18, 2017, 10:24:55 PM
Celtics bench is mid pack in the NBA.

Can't hit a barn lately.

Rozier was superb in the first 6 games or so.

He is part of Steven's set up and I think he's used well....I guess we have to get a magnifying out to find  problems as the Celtics and Terry Rozier haven't last a game for a MONTH.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: JSD on November 18, 2017, 10:26:23 PM
My biggest problem with Terry Rozier is that he's openly a GMB gang member and nobody seems to care.

https://twitter.com/t_rozzay3/status/691842185327726592?lang=en

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=u_kQWp6nO8WKmQHosZmoCA&q=gmb+gang&oq=gmb+gang&gs_l=psy-ab.3...946.3822.0.3935.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.r-uuC6FpI4o
Quote
Rozier's teammates simply aren't used to seeing people play around with him.

"A lot of people don't want to mess with Terry. He's really with that. I will tell you that now," guard Isaiah Thomas said.

"He's a guy who can step up to his own battles," forward Jae Crowder said.

http://www.nbcsports.com/washington/washington-wizards/celtics-players-genuinely-surprised-brandon-jennings-messed-terry-rozier

Move on, Danny.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: jambr380 on November 18, 2017, 10:26:46 PM
Terry has fantastic energy, is in the vicinity for every loose ball/rebound, plays hard D, and can absolutely hit an open 3. I wish he would better figure out his driving game since he moves so well and covers so much ground, but it doesn't look promising.

And, what's your solution, to play Larkin more or unleash Smart's outside shooting on the opponent? As a back-up guard making under $2M/yr, I am not sure what else we could hope for. He is an all-world athlete and proven NBA player - with [believe it or not] still potential to tighten things up on the offensive end.

He hasn’t improved in three years, he is a really bad shooter, and defensively he always takes the second best guard so his impact is mitigated.

Well over half his minutes have been next to Smart. Having two guys the opponent barely has to cover will eventually bite us.

My solution? Acquire a guy who can play. I don’t care if it’s a free agent like Deron, a trade, a D-League call-up, etc. Backup PGs who can’t shoot or pass aren’t worth having, especially when they’re playing beside an even worse shooter.

Not sure that answers jambr380's question.

Just not sure I am into bringing in veteran retreads. Terry and Smart aren't exactly lighting it up on offense, but they are a nightmare for teams on the defensive side of the ball. I think Brad likes having two guys who will go balls to the wall on every defensive possession and go after every loose ball.

As far as Terry's shooting goes, I am not sure what to say. When he is open, I still [weirdly] feel comfortable with him taking the shot - much more comfortable than Marcus. Maybe this is a cold streak or maybe this is who he is, but I still think he adds a positive element to the team that we would miss if he were gone.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Roy H. on November 18, 2017, 10:28:16 PM
Celtics bench is mid pack in the NBA.

Can't hit a barn lately.

Rozier was superb in the first 6 games or so.

He is part of Steven's set up and I think he's used well....I guess we have to get a magnifying out to find  problems as the Celtics and Terry Rozier haven't last a game for a MONTH.

We’ve got two guys in our rotation who are shooting sub-40% and can’t hit threes. That’s not really a “magnifying glass” problem.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: nickagneta on November 18, 2017, 10:34:42 PM
I am not in love with Smart or Rozier and haven't really seen any growth from them since they were rookies. But they are cheap, effect the team on the defensive side of the game positively and unbelievably, the team is better offensively when Smart is on the floor.

We have a lot of draft picks coming up in the next few years. I would have no problem letting each player playing out their contracts while we replace them with 1st round draft picks.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Roy H. on November 18, 2017, 10:40:01 PM
I am not in love with Smart or Rozier and haven't really seen any growth from them since they were rookies. But they are cheap, effect the team on the defensive side of the game positively and unbelievably, the team is better offensively when Smart is on the floor.

We have a lot of draft picks coming up in the next few years. I would have no problem letting each player playing out their contracts while we replace them with 1st round draft picks.

Smart is a really weird player. He might be the worst non-rookie shooter in the NBA, but he is a really good passer, and plays elite def Mae. He is an impact player.  He’s like a good-passing Tony Allen.

Rozier just doesn’t bring that nightly impact, while shooting almost as poorly.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: colincb on November 18, 2017, 10:49:01 PM
Terry has fantastic energy, is in the vicinity for every loose ball/rebound, plays hard D, and can absolutely hit an open 3. I wish he would better figure out his driving game since he moves so well and covers so much ground, but it doesn't look promising.

And, what's your solution, to play Larkin more or unleash Smart's outside shooting on the opponent? As a back-up guard making under $2M/yr, I am not sure what else we could hope for. He is an all-world athlete and proven NBA player - with [believe it or not] still potential to tighten things up on the offensive end.

He hasn’t improved in three years, he is a really bad shooter, and defensively he always takes the second best guard so his impact is mitigated.

Well over half his minutes have been next to Smart. Having two guys the opponent barely has to cover will eventually bite us.

Not sure that answers jambr380's question.

My solution? Acquire a guy who can play. I don’t care if it’s a free agent like Deron, a trade, a D-League call-up, etc. Backup PGs who can’t shoot or pass aren’t worth having, especially when they’re playing beside an even worse shooter.

Need a better name than DWill whose defense is atrocious and a G-leaguer isn't the answer. That leaves a trade for a PG who will play defense as well and shoot better. Need a name that we can afford.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: KGs Knee on November 18, 2017, 10:53:56 PM
Rozier just doesn't really have a fit with the team.

You can deal with Smart's poor offense because he contributes in so many other ways.

I'd look to replace Rozier with a guy like  JJ Barea or Lou Williams.  Our bench could desperately use a scorer.  It's not as important what that player can do on defense, that's what Smart is for.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: nickagneta on November 18, 2017, 10:59:22 PM
Rozier does just about everything better than Smart except passing offensively and is a top notch defender, though not elite. I seriously think they are equally replaceable. Both are horrendous offensively but excellent defensively. Need more offense from our two back up guards to make this team take the next step. Or keep one on the cheap and bring in a scoring backup guard.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on November 18, 2017, 11:00:33 PM
Rozier just doesn't really have a fit with the team.

You can deal with Smart's poor offense because he contributes in so many other ways.

I'd look to replace Rozier with a guy like  JJ Barea or Lou Williams.  Our bench could desperately use a scorer.  It's not as important what that player can do on defense, that's what Smart is for.


^. This
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on November 18, 2017, 11:02:18 PM
Yes.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Chris22 on November 18, 2017, 11:03:46 PM
15-2 and somebody wants to complain about Rozier.
Sheesh.
I love Rozier.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Celtics4ever on November 18, 2017, 11:06:22 PM
Quote
My biggest problem with Terry Rozier is that he's openly a GMB gang member and nobody seems to care.


Where I am from gangs are people too weak to defend themselves so they band together for safety.  Some guys in the Army tried to use that stuff on me, a guy told me " I am a Crip", I said, "isn't that where you bury dead people" before I laid hands on him.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: rondofan1255 on November 18, 2017, 11:07:04 PM
Yes. *raises hand*

I expect him to raise his game in the playoffs again
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: jpotter33 on November 18, 2017, 11:07:10 PM
Rozier does just about everything better than Smart except passing offensively and is a top notch defender, though not elite. I seriously think they are equally replaceable. Both are horrendous offensively but excellent defensively. Need more offense from our two back up guards to make this team take the next step. Or keep one on the cheap and bring in a scoring backup guard.

Terry has certainly improved his defense, even to the point that I'd call him slightly above average, but I'm completely confused where this notion that he is a "top notch" defender is coming from. Sure, his individual defensive ratings are good, but there's so much noise in the advanced defensive stats that you can't take them at face value without also considering the eye test. And the eye test tells me that he still regularly gambles in bad situations and has problems at times getting around screens.

I think the problem is more of the combination of Smart and Rozier rather than either of them individually. They both seem to play much, much better when with the starters, but together they are just not equipped to handle the bench's offense.

I think Smart clearly brings more to the team than Rozier with his greater defense, versatility, and passing, but Rozier's contract status and cost do make up the gap somewhat.

I think adding a scorer like a Lou Williams with the DPE to pair with Smart would be the best bet for us.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Sophomore on November 18, 2017, 11:10:15 PM
What exactly are you expecting from your backup PG? I know we are 15-2 and have reached the point where a fandom has to find flaws or things to complain about but Terry Rozier isn't one of them.
No, I think we've reached the point where we're so far removed from 2008-2010 that the fandom has forgotten what a good backup player looks like.

Fun fact: Brian Scalabrine was on that team and shot 39.3%from three (on low volume...).
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Boston Garden Leprechaun on November 18, 2017, 11:11:38 PM
Rozier does just about everything better than Smart except passing offensively and is a top notch defender, though not elite. I seriously think they are equally replaceable. Both are horrendous offensively but excellent defensively. Need more offense from our two back up guards to make this team take the next step. Or keep one on the cheap and bring in a scoring backup guard.

Terry has certainly improved his defense, even to the point that I'd call him slightly above average, but I'm completely confused where this notion that he is a "top notch" defender is coming from. Sure, his individual defensive ratings are good, but there's so much noise in the advanced defensive stats that you can't take them at face value without also considering the eye test. And the eye test tells me that he still regularly gambles in bad situations and has problems at times getting around screens.

I think the problem is more of the combination of Smart and Rozier rather than either of them individually. They both seem to play much, much better when with the starters, but together they are just not equipped to handle the bench's offense.

I think Smart clearly brings more to the team than Rozier with his greater defense, versatility, and passing, but Rozier's contract status and cost do make up the gap somewhat.

I think adding a scorer like a Lou Williams with the DPE to pair with Smart would be the best bet for us.

we need a scorer bad with the DPE.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: CelticD on November 18, 2017, 11:13:23 PM
Other than passing/playmaking, Rozier and Smart aren't that different statistically. The edge may actually go to Rozier in that regard.

Intangibly, Smart is much better. Rozier doesn't take charges, or dive for the ball, and he's not usually in the game down the stretch so he doesn't get the chance to make "Game winning plays".

T-Roze is a good defender and was given the Stephen Curry assignment during the C's 19-0 run against the Warriors so he has value, but putting him next to Smart makes him look expendable.

I'm not a fan of either player really, but if I had to choose one, I'm picking Smart every time.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: loco_91 on November 18, 2017, 11:18:46 PM
I think he's gotten better. He used to be a liability on defense and a spaz on offense. Now I'd say he's slightly above average on defense and below average on offense. Not a good return for a mid-first round pick, but not a bust, either. He's OK.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Fred Roberts on November 18, 2017, 11:44:03 PM
Definitely high on Terry. His flashes of excellent defense, sound ball handling, strong rebounding and fearless shot making are enough for me.
Not every player is going to play great all the time. Over 82 games, I expect to see many memorable contributions.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Phantom255x on November 18, 2017, 11:52:30 PM
Yes, Danny clearly is a fan!  8)

(https://i.imgflip.com/1vmcy4.jpg)
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: chilidawg on November 19, 2017, 12:02:05 AM
Yes
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: JSD on November 19, 2017, 02:22:23 AM
Quote
My biggest problem with Terry Rozier is that he's openly a GMB gang member and nobody seems to care.


Where I am from gangs are people too weak to defend themselves so they band together for safety.  Some guys in the Army tried to use that stuff on me, a guy told me " I am a Crip", I said, "isn't that where you bury dead people" before I laid hands on him.

There is obviously a ton of overlap between Patriots and Celtics fans, after what we all saw go down with Aaron Hernandez I’m surprised more people are not taking the Celtics organization to task on this.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Beat LA on November 19, 2017, 02:27:33 AM
Okay, from now on, whenever someone, whether they're a Celtic or not, plays completely out of control, can we say that they've gone "full Rozier" ;)? :laugh:

On a more serious note, we could have replaced both him and Smart with second round picks from this past year in Jawun Evans and Sindarius Thornwell who were taken at 39 and 48, respectively.  Think about that for a moment.  Man that second round was loaded, not to mention the undrafted market, and if we're going for a minor league call-up, allow me to recommend Xavier Rathan-Mayes from the Knicks' g-league affiliate, although I'm not sure that that's possible.  He's not shooting well at the minute and has been inconsistent, but he's as tall as Smart and can actually create his own offense, not to mention pass, rebound, and defend, even though I know that we won't sign him.  It would be awesome to see XRM and Kyrie go at it in practice every day, though, lol.  Nigel Hayes has been beasting, too, btw, not to mention Antonius Cleveland who just signed with the Mavs.  Doh! #ShouldHaveBeenACeltic

I guess that all that I'm trying to say, here, is that we had plenty of better and cheaper options, but we are where we are.  Welp :-\.

Edit - I would have mentioned GP II but he's in Milwaukee so we'd have to trade for him.  Oh darn ::).
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: PhoSita on November 19, 2017, 02:38:44 AM
Rozier, like Smart, is a classic Danny Ainge hustle guard who can't score with consistency or efficiency.

He makes lots of "winning plays" and is solid to great defensively depending on matchups.

I like having him on the team, so long as he doesn't become super expensive.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: CelticsFanFromNYC on November 19, 2017, 02:45:21 AM
I claimed Rozier as an X-factor on a thread prior to the season starting. Still going with that notion. Second unit scoring is an issue and Smart is clearly not the answer. The season is young.

Edit**: Rozier has raw offensive penetration skills. Clear ability to create his own shot. Decent on the catch and shoot. He is also the 7th man on a elite Eastern conference team. His room for error is minimal right now. 
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: GreenEnvy on November 19, 2017, 02:56:57 AM
Rozier has the talent to be a stud. He can defend and he can ball.

He can knock down clutch shots, he can defend in crunch time. He can swing the ball. He can rip down a board that a PG probably shouldn’t.

Nothing TRIII does surprises me. He’s the untouchable.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: jdz101 on November 19, 2017, 03:19:52 AM
One of the youngest minutes-weighted average age teams beats half the league on the trot and threads pop up calling for the head of the 3rd string point guard, and worrying about lebron joining philadelphia.

I'm now convinced this board can never truly remain positive about anything.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Darío SpanishFan on November 19, 2017, 06:59:39 AM
Terry has fantastic energy, is in the vicinity for every loose ball/rebound, plays hard D, and can absolutely hit an open 3. I wish he would better figure out his driving game since he moves so well and covers so much ground, but it doesn't look promising.

And, what's your solution, to play Larkin more or unleash Smart's outside shooting on the opponent? As a back-up guard making under $2M/yr, I am not sure what else we could hope for. He is an all-world athlete and proven NBA player - with [believe it or not] still potential to tighten things up on the offensive end.

He hasn’t improved in three years, he is a really bad shooter, and defensively he always takes the second best guard so his impact is mitigated.

Well over half his minutes have been next to Smart. Having two guys the opponent barely has to cover will eventually bite us.

Not sure that answers jambr380's question.

My solution? Acquire a guy who can play. I don’t care if it’s a free agent like Deron, a trade, a D-League call-up, etc. Backup PGs who can’t shoot or pass aren’t worth having, especially when they’re playing beside an even worse shooter.

1. Deron plays ZERO minutes with Stevens with his (lack of) defense. He's not last year's IT to compensate with the offense.

2. James Young just scored 40. This is the G-League level.

3. I don't know if you can upgrade Rozier (knowing the system and contract, putting aside his skills where we don't agree at all) in a reasonable trade right now. You can't trade rotation player after winning 15 in a row and Yabusele, Nader etc. can't get you a stud.

So you complain about the seventh-eighth player in a 15 game-winning-streak team (not very understandable) and propose such solutions instead. Not very inspiring. As JDZ (TP) has said, we can't remain positive even with our great situation.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: chambers on November 19, 2017, 07:27:14 AM
Is there a better defensive bench back court in the NBA than Smart and Rozier?

His penetration ability is pretty crucial to our 2nd unit finding open shots and setting up ball movement. He hasn't been finishing well in the last 5 games but he started off the season amazingly and he should round back into form soon.

He's shooting 32.5% from three so far this season which isn't completely awful and he's making solid decisions for the most part.

So to answer the OP's question, yes, there are certainly plenty of Terry Rozier fans left, me being one of them.

If we had this conversation after the first 5 games we'd be saying how he's the next big thing.
Give him a solid 20-30 games or a third of a season before judging if he's a black hole/bum.

Right now he's cheap, he plays good D, and he's come up really clutch for us in some earlier wins. Plenty of time for him to prove himself this season.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on November 19, 2017, 07:49:27 AM
Irving has a tendency to hold the ball too long. He is getting better in that, but its still a tendency of his. Rozier offers a really good change-of-pace to Irving. He gets the ball moving. He drives and kicks.

On top of that, he provides some nasty disruptive defense.

I'm a believer in his game. I think his shooting percentages will come up a bit this year. I know its his 3rd year, but with the roster turnover, it seems like he has struggled to find a rhythm, especially with the early season injuries.

Our second unit with Morris, Smart, and Rozier has been decent. That unit can score, but has also had some droughts. There just aren't very many options out there that would be a significant upgrade offensively without sacrificing our defense.

By putting the emphasis on internal development (ala the Spurs), we open ourselves up for getting the right guys on good contracts. This is a transition of philosophy. I know Ainge has made a lot of trades, and he may make more in the future, but we may need to get used to the idea that any weaknesses we have will be addressed through internal develop. That's not fast and easy and flashy in the modern NBA Trade Machine era, but it is how to build a dynasty.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: KGs Knee on November 19, 2017, 11:53:10 AM
Is there a better defensive bench back court in the NBA than Smart and Rozier?


Maybe not, but there also isn't very many back courts worse on offense than Smart/Rozier.

I like both players fine enough, individually, but Smart and Rozier are far too redundant and it would be better to replace one of them with more of a 'microwave' type scorer.

Sure, we've won 15 in a row and I super pumped about that, but it's not too hard to see that our woeful bench scoring is an issue that needs resolving.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: eja117 on November 19, 2017, 12:54:37 PM
Does this mean we'd like to see a lot more Shane Larkin or Jabari Bird? Is that the idea?
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: eja117 on November 19, 2017, 12:54:58 PM
I am not in love with Smart or Rozier and haven't really seen any growth from them since they were rookies. But they are cheap, effect the team on the defensive side of the game positively and unbelievably, the team is better offensively when Smart is on the floor.

We have a lot of draft picks coming up in the next few years. I would have no problem letting each player playing out their contracts while we replace them with 1st round draft picks.
This. Absolutely this
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: eja117 on November 19, 2017, 12:57:08 PM
It's not that I love Rozier at all. It's that for some reason I don't understand Smart will probably make something like 9 to 16mill per year next year.

Rozier will get something like 3 to 7.  Smart is just not twice as good, and really when you consider the luxury tax he'd have to be 3 or 4 times as good.

Rozier does something similar and will make way less money.

For a team that clearly needs to pay a lot of money in the not too distant future to Kyrie, Jaylen, Tatum, and maybe someone else the choice is clear to me.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Darío SpanishFan on November 19, 2017, 01:09:53 PM
It's not that I love Rozier at all. It's that for some reason I don't understand Smart will probably make something like 9 to 16mill per year next year.

Rozier will get something like 3 to 7.  Smart is just not twice as good, and really when you consider the luxury tax he'd have to be 3 or 4 times as good.

Rozier does something similar and will make way less money.

For a team that clearly needs to pay a lot of money in the not too distant future to Kyrie, Jaylen, Tatum, and maybe someone else the choice is clear to me.

I mostly agree with you, but size matters. Also, the ability to defend 1 to 3 (even 4) positions also should matter, and Smart has the edge here by miles.

Difficult situation, but I agree the financial terms will be a key factor here (also, the rest of this season, POs and if the LA pick conveys).
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: jambr380 on November 19, 2017, 01:22:28 PM
Does this mean we'd like to see a lot more Shane Larkin or Jabari Bird? Is that the idea?

I honestly would like to see a little more Jabari Bird; I've had quite enough of Larkin and think he should only be playing in blow-outs or when Rozier/Smart are absolutely horrible/in foul trouble.

Hopefully Rozier starts playing a little more like he was earlier in the season (or playoffs) so that these types of threads can go away.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Csfan1984 on November 19, 2017, 02:50:03 PM
Right now I'd guess Smart is only going to get a QO and if another team offers more than 12 per DA will decline to match. We thus will need Rozier.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: JHTruth on November 19, 2017, 03:08:56 PM
I like him better than Smart who I think is just terrible. I just hate they always play together. Brick City
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Ilikesports17 on November 19, 2017, 03:39:19 PM
I like him better than Smart who I think is just terrible. I just hate they always play together. Brick City
When they are on the floor together, the Celtics outscore opponents by 10.1 points per 100 possessions.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: td450 on November 19, 2017, 03:40:40 PM
It's not that I love Rozier at all. It's that for some reason I don't understand Smart will probably make something like 9 to 16mill per year next year.

Rozier will get something like 3 to 7.  Smart is just not twice as good, and really when you consider the luxury tax he'd have to be 3 or 4 times as good.

Rozier does something similar and will make way less money.

For a team that clearly needs to pay a lot of money in the not too distant future to Kyrie, Jaylen, Tatum, and maybe someone else the choice is clear to me.

I mostly agree with you, but size matters. Also, the ability to defend 1 to 3 (even 4) positions also should matter, and Smart has the edge here by miles.

Difficult situation, but I agree the financial terms will be a key factor here (also, the rest of this season, POs and if the LA pick conveys).
Sure size matters, but this isn't last year's team. We don't need Smart to step in and handle wings any more.

In the end, this is up to Smart alone. I think they like him warts and all and will pay him up to a number only Danny's team knows, probably around 12M. If he wants a few million more, someone else will probably pay it and he will be gone.

Let's keep in mind that Smart and Rozier play because no one has come along who is better yet. If Hayward hadn't gotten hurt, a sizeable chunk of those minutes would have come from them. The talent level on this team is still going up and they won't keep their jobs shooting like this for very much longer.

Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Jvalin on November 20, 2017, 11:28:33 AM
I have zero trust in Rozier to handle the ball in the crunch. Cannot play on a set tempo, just runs full speed up and down the court. That's a major problem come playoff time. As a matter of fact, CBS was mostly using him off the ball as a weak side shooter during the playoffs.

In all honesty, I want us to trade him since the day we drafted him. Hopefully, he still has some value around the league. Any trade ideas people?

I bet Jonathon Simmons would do a good job for the C's as a backup SG (he is on a team friendly 3-year contract as well). Would you guys do Rozier + filler for Simmons?
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: JBcat on November 20, 2017, 12:09:49 PM
I like him better than Smart who I think is just terrible. I just hate they always play together. Brick City
When they are on the floor together, the Celtics outscore opponents by 10.1 points per 100 possessions.

They aren’t perfect but they are a big reason for this.

They are both 23 now and at some point you just have to say they are what they are.  It’s easy to fall into the Kelly Olynyk syndrome where you see pockets of hope every year, but never that big leap in their game.

What’s frustrating for me is Rozier has the physical profile to be so much better.  You see lanes for him to drive so much more if only he was more confident and crafty in his ball handling. He has the burst and first step but rarely uses it IMO.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: incoherent on November 20, 2017, 12:16:08 PM
There's a lot of things to love about Terry Rozier and you can cherry pick a couple bad stats on anyone.

Terry has logged 414 minutes and has only turned the ball over 12 times.  That's remarkable considering when he's on the court the ball is always in his hands.

He also leads the league by a wide, wide, margin in Steals Per Assist.  Meaning Terry is generating about 2-3 extra possessions a game more then the rest of the leagues point guards, when most point guards are actually giving up possessions.

So you have a back up PG who takes care of the ball at an elite level and plays defense at an elite level, makes his free throws.  And his shooting percentages go up in the playoffs.  He's also pretty darn clutch just from the eye test.

Yeah Im a fan.

 
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: indeedproceed on November 20, 2017, 12:18:27 PM
(https://indilens.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/LaVar-Ball-returns-to-SNL-to-brag-about-Lonzo-unveil-new-sneakers-that-cost-700000-per-shoe.jpg)

NEVER LOST. (Faith)
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: rollie mass on November 20, 2017, 12:33:34 PM
Just recently became one-he has made great strides in his game and think the addition of Kyrie is already showing in his dribbling skills-
I read someone calling Smart and Rozier -the Bruise Brothers-thought that very apt as a defensive pairing.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: footey on November 20, 2017, 12:38:48 PM
I'm still a fan of Terry, although I wish he would be more efficient offensively.   
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: bdm860 on November 20, 2017, 01:04:10 PM
He also leads the league by a wide, wide, margin in Steals Per Assist.  Meaning Terry is generating about 2-3 extra possessions a game more then the rest of the leagues point guards, when most point guards are actually giving up possessions.

This is a stat I've never seen before.  Googling it only turns up one result, which is a Sixers blog. (https://www.google.com/search?q=%22steals+per+assist%22)

So where do you see this stat?
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Roy H. on November 20, 2017, 04:36:33 PM
He also leads the league by a wide, wide, margin in Steals Per Assist.  Meaning Terry is generating about 2-3 extra possessions a game more then the rest of the leagues point guards, when most point guards are actually giving up possessions.

This is a stat I've never seen before.  Googling it only turns up one result, which is a Sixers blog. (https://www.google.com/search?q=%22steals+per+assist%22)

So where do you see this stat?

What’s it even measuring? Steals relative to an opponent’s assists? That would be pretty flawed on an individual basis.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: fairweatherfan on November 20, 2017, 04:40:03 PM
He also leads the league by a wide, wide, margin in Steals Per Assist.  Meaning Terry is generating about 2-3 extra possessions a game more then the rest of the leagues point guards, when most point guards are actually giving up possessions.

This is a stat I've never seen before.  Googling it only turns up one result, which is a Sixers blog. (https://www.google.com/search?q=%22steals+per+assist%22)

So where do you see this stat?

It sounds more like he's describing steal/turnover ratio, which is still pretty obscure but at least is a thing I've heard of before. Logic is possessions taken from the other team vs possessions given over to them.

Anything over 1 is exceptional for a ball-handling guard, and Terry's is currently 1.58. No idea if that leads the league or whatever but it's still a testament to his ball control.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: tstorey_97 on November 20, 2017, 05:51:03 PM
The debate is a popularity contest.

He is a backup guard.
You can define him by his cons and, as he is a bench player, he's got plenty.
You can define him by his strengths which is fine, Stevens gives him a lot to do on a top team.

A lot of fans appreciate his effort on both ends, the guy doesn't ever dog it.
More fans appreciate that he actually helps the Celtics win a game once awhile. Look it up.

On the other side wow, he's not much of a shooter and
he tends to operate at about 120 miles per hour when on the court, which can be a liability.

I understand that the brilliance of our starters causes us to seek out a whipping boy or two, it's human nature but, Christmas folks....Smart and Rozier enter the game at about 6 minutes to go in the first quarter and play great defense. Back courts don't like playing against these guys. Admit it, they positively cranked on the Warriors. The two top rated players in the NBA had worse stats than....Terry freaking Rozier. Does Jaylen Brown get credit on this? Obviously, but he's only got 30 minutes and he needs a little help right? Team sport?

I suppose we can bring up the contract thing, but, we all know that Ainge would trade his grandmother to the Romanian league for contract relief if he felt it would help the team. The fact that Rozier is still here, I think, is that his defense is inexpensive and, if our starting back court goes down, Rozier wouldn't make a hash of the extra minutes.

Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on November 20, 2017, 06:27:17 PM
maybe DA would trade Rozier for Lonzo Ball  ;D
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Billz401 on November 20, 2017, 06:31:34 PM
Here's my take on T. Ro, ultimate energy guy off the bench, pushes in transition and actually has a pretty respectable jumper. His decision making at times can be a little erratic and he gets wild from time to time like when he does his crazy dribble moves at the top of the arc but doesn't actually go anywhere, I just feel like that's wasted energy. His defense is a little like rondo to me, gambles alot but also has success in the passing lanes getting deflections and steals but can't really stay in front of his guy and gets absolutely lost on PnR. Still like what he brings to the second unit but I feel like if he tightened up some things he could be a really good pg.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: rochrist on November 21, 2017, 12:08:59 AM
Terry has fantastic energy, is in the vicinity for every loose ball/rebound, plays hard D, and can absolutely hit an open 3. I wish he would better figure out his driving game since he moves so well and covers so much ground, but it doesn't look promising.

And, what's your solution, to play Larkin more or unleash Smart's outside shooting on the opponent? As a back-up guard making under $2M/yr, I am not sure what else we could hope for. He is an all-world athlete and proven NBA player - with [believe it or not] still potential to tighten things up on the offensive end.

He hasn’t improved in three years, he is a really bad shooter, and defensively he always takes the second best guard so his impact is mitigated.

Well over half his minutes have been next to Smart. Having two guys the opponent barely has to cover will eventually bite us.

Not sure that answers jambr380's question.

My solution? Acquire a guy who can play. I don’t care if it’s a free agent like Deron, a trade, a D-League call-up, etc. Backup PGs who can’t shoot or pass aren’t worth having, especially when they’re playing beside an even worse shooter.

You're trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: KGs Knee on November 21, 2017, 12:42:41 AM
Terry has fantastic energy, is in the vicinity for every loose ball/rebound, plays hard D, and can absolutely hit an open 3. I wish he would better figure out his driving game since he moves so well and covers so much ground, but it doesn't look promising.

And, what's your solution, to play Larkin more or unleash Smart's outside shooting on the opponent? As a back-up guard making under $2M/yr, I am not sure what else we could hope for. He is an all-world athlete and proven NBA player - with [believe it or not] still potential to tighten things up on the offensive end.

He hasn’t improved in three years, he is a really bad shooter, and defensively he always takes the second best guard so his impact is mitigated.

Well over half his minutes have been next to Smart. Having two guys the opponent barely has to cover will eventually bite us.

Not sure that answers jambr380's question.

My solution? Acquire a guy who can play. I don’t care if it’s a free agent like Deron, a trade, a D-League call-up, etc. Backup PGs who can’t shoot or pass aren’t worth having, especially when they’re playing beside an even worse shooter.

You're trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

I take it you didn't watch tonight's game.

I said this in the game thread, and I meant it, I would trade Rozier for JJ Barea straight up. Sadly, Dallas would probably just laugh at Danny if he proposed that.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on November 21, 2017, 12:53:16 AM
Internal development.

We can put up with weaknesses from young developing players because we have a committed front office, a great development coaching staff, and a roster full of young players with good upside.

We are winning. I wish our offense could always run and peak levels, too, but even the fact that this is a debate should be encouraging.

I still don't think we've seen the best offensive basketball from Smart or Rozier yet this season.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: GreenEnvy on November 21, 2017, 01:30:42 AM
Internal development.

We can put up with weaknesses from young developing players because we have a committed front office, a great development coaching staff, and a roster full of young players with good upside.

We are winning. I wish our offense could always run and peak levels, too, but even the fact that this is a debate should be encouraging.

I still don't think we've seen the best offensive basketball from Smart or Rozier yet this season.

I sure hope it can’t get any worse.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: nickagneta on November 21, 2017, 01:49:59 PM
Internal development.

We can put up with weaknesses from young developing players because we have a committed front office, a great development coaching staff, and a roster full of young players with good upside.

We are winning. I wish our offense could always run and peak levels, too, but even the fact that this is a debate should be encouraging.

I still don't think we've seen the best offensive basketball from Smart or Rozier yet this season.

I sure hope it can’t get any worse.
Took the words straight outta my mouth. TP
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: indeedproceed on November 21, 2017, 02:08:57 PM
Terry has fantastic energy, is in the vicinity for every loose ball/rebound, plays hard D, and can absolutely hit an open 3. I wish he would better figure out his driving game since he moves so well and covers so much ground, but it doesn't look promising.

And, what's your solution, to play Larkin more or unleash Smart's outside shooting on the opponent? As a back-up guard making under $2M/yr, I am not sure what else we could hope for. He is an all-world athlete and proven NBA player - with [believe it or not] still potential to tighten things up on the offensive end.

He hasn’t improved in three years, he is a really bad shooter, and defensively he always takes the second best guard so his impact is mitigated.

Well over half his minutes have been next to Smart. Having two guys the opponent barely has to cover will eventually bite us.

Not sure that answers jambr380's question.

My solution? Acquire a guy who can play. I don’t care if it’s a free agent like Deron, a trade, a D-League call-up, etc. Backup PGs who can’t shoot or pass aren’t worth having, especially when they’re playing beside an even worse shooter.

You're trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

I take it you didn't watch tonight's game.

I said this in the game thread, and I meant it, I would trade Rozier for JJ Barea straight up. Sadly, Dallas would probably just laugh at Danny if he proposed that.

#DKCBINKIESRUNDEEP
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: slamtheking on November 21, 2017, 02:23:21 PM
there's one fan left
(http://www.bostonherald.com/sites/default/files/styles/gallery/public/media/2015/09/25/092515celticsmediatf17.jpg?itok=V-jVOiT9)
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Phantom255x on November 22, 2017, 09:10:30 PM
Rozier is simply what he is.

Role player who shows flashes, but is usually just wild and erratic on the court.

He's still young though, and is capable of helping the team win some playoff games if he's hot (sort of like last year, in some games vs. Chicago and Washington).

Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Roy H. on November 22, 2017, 09:26:56 PM
Rozier is simply what he is.

Role player who shows flashes, but is usually just wild and erratic on the court.

He's still young though, and is capable of helping the team win some playoff games if he's hot (sort of like last year, in some games vs. Chicago and Washington).

True, but in combination the Brick Brothers are capable of losing us playoff games, too.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: YoungOne87 on November 23, 2017, 05:57:48 AM
Rozier is simply what he is.

Role player who shows flashes, but is usually just wild and erratic on the court.

He's still young though, and is capable of helping the team win some playoff games if he's hot (sort of like last year, in some games vs. Chicago and Washington).

True, but in combination the Brick Brothers are capable of losing us playoff games, too.

Nice looks like my idea of the brick brothers got stuck with someone  :laugh:
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Celtics4ever on November 23, 2017, 06:05:02 AM
I wish, we had just went with one of Rozier and Larkin and got a guy who can score off the bench.  Maybe Ainge did not trust him so he got Larkin.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Chris22 on November 23, 2017, 08:53:45 AM
Rozier was a plus one last night and he made his free throws in the clutch.
I don't understand why Celtic fans hate their players.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Roy H. on November 23, 2017, 09:27:06 AM
Rozier was a plus one last night and he made his free throws in the clutch.
I don't understand why Celtic fans hate their players.

Maybe it was the 2-for-8 shooting?
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Boston Garden Leprechaun on November 23, 2017, 10:59:35 AM
Rozier was a plus one last night and he made his free throws in the clutch.
I don't understand why Celtic fans hate their players.

nobody hates anybody. we look at peformances and what is best for us. rozier absolutely sux at times. marcus smart plays very dumb at times but i still like him because he brings alot more than rozier to the table. i really had big hopes for rozier. no, i knew he would not be JT or JB but he can drive to the hoop but he just does not have a high BBIQ sadly and it is burning us. we have some players who make very stupid decisions at critical times. This needs to be fixed. I wonder at times what CBS is telling these guys making these mistakes over and over and over.

We need a bench scorer badly. we only have 3 bench guys now who really contribute. Morris, Theis, and Smart. the rest are all question marks. nader is terrible. larkin is just a retread fill in. I consider baynes a starter with KI, JB, JT and AH. we need a scorer with the DPE who can CONSISTENTLY give us points off the bench and help starters holds leads and maybe even add to leads. 

as far as our current 3 bench guys who we CAn count on in some way here are their attributes:

THEIS can rebound and play D and score some in paint. not known for any outside shooting

MORRIS can create his own shot on ISO from outside

SMART tough defender who can rebound and is terribly inconsistent with shots all over court even in paint.

we need 4 or 5 bench guys for the playoffs. we shouldn't be going any further than 9 or 10 deep anyways. DA needs to make some moves. I am fine with rozier being traded. Hope semi works out but I am not counting on it anymore even though I know this is his first year. But semi SHOULD not be in first 4 off bench anyway so it is a moot point. he will get another year.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Celtics4ever on November 23, 2017, 11:18:39 AM
Quote
I don't understand why Celtic fans hate their players.

Unrealistic expectations generally.

Rozier is a nifty defender and athletic.   He is not a great shooter by any stretch but generally has the athletic ability to find the rim or get by his man or shot off.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Boston Garden Leprechaun on November 23, 2017, 11:43:15 AM
Quote
I don't understand why Celtic fans hate their players.

Unrealistic expectations generally.

Rozier is a nifty defender and athletic.   He is not a great shooter by any stretch but generally has the athletic ability to find the rim or get by his man or shot off.

his BBIQ is terrible. see post above. facts are facts
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Vox_Populi on November 23, 2017, 11:49:33 AM
Rozier is just a limited player. I was never much of a fan, but I don't think it's unfair to expect him, or Smart, to shoot at least 40% from the floor. It's kind of pathetic frankly.

He's just going to have to play better.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: mctyson on November 23, 2017, 12:21:42 PM
Quote
I don't understand why Celtic fans hate their players.

Unrealistic expectations generally.

Rozier is a nifty defender and athletic.   He is not a great shooter by any stretch but generally has the athletic ability to find the rim or get by his man or shot off.

I was hoping he could be Robert Pack but he is turning into a rich-man's rebounding Marcus Banks.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Boston Garden Leprechaun on November 23, 2017, 02:29:50 PM
Rozier is just a limited player. I was never much of a fan, but I don't think it's unfair to expect him, or Smart, to shoot at least 40% from the floor. It's kind of pathetic frankly.

He's just going to have to play better.

agreed.

well i was hoping for the best but we need solid consistent contributors from bench. i refuse to believe we cannot do better than rozier off the bench...get to work Danny!
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Neurotic Guy on November 23, 2017, 02:43:58 PM
Rozier is just a limited player. I was never much of a fan, but I don't think it's unfair to expect him, or Smart, to shoot at least 40% from the floor. It's kind of pathetic frankly.

He's just going to have to play better.

agreed.

well i was hoping for the best but we need solid consistent contributors from bench. i refuse to believe we cannot do better than rozier off the bench...get to work Danny!

A sharpshooter to pair with either Smart or Rozier changes the bench dynamics significantly.

Hayward back, Morris to the bench and add a 40% 3-point guy -- and we'll have something.  In the meantime, we have two guys in Smart and TR who bring energy, effort, defense, change of pace, and an occasional big shot to the table.  C's aren't GSW yet.  But who here thought we would be? 
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Boston Garden Leprechaun on November 23, 2017, 03:04:20 PM
Rozier is just a limited player. I was never much of a fan, but I don't think it's unfair to expect him, or Smart, to shoot at least 40% from the floor. It's kind of pathetic frankly.

He's just going to have to play better.

agreed.

well i was hoping for the best but we need solid consistent contributors from bench. i refuse to believe we cannot do better than rozier off the bench...get to work Danny!

A sharpshooter to pair with either Smart or Rozier changes the bench dynamics significantly.

Hayward back, Morris to the bench and add a 40% 3-point guy -- and we'll have something.  In the meantime, we have two guys in Smart and TR who bring energy, effort, defense, change of pace, and an occasional big shot to the table.  C's aren't GSW yet.  But who here thought we would be? 


right we definitely are not GS yet. I am not even counting hayward yet. morris is a bench guy when baynes starst now as it is.  our bench looked so good early then just dropped off the table. we need 4 or 5 good bench guys for playoffs.  i am not stressing over end of bench last 5 guys lol. hopefully semi can be good next year, not giving up on him this soon. yabu? meh. LOOOOOOOOOOOONG way to go. he basically brings nothing to the team right now. so raw and needs to learn the game.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: SCeltic34 on November 23, 2017, 03:18:01 PM
Rozier is just a limited player. I was never much of a fan, but I don't think it's unfair to expect him, or Smart, to shoot at least 40% from the floor. It's kind of pathetic frankly.

He's just going to have to play better.

agreed.

well i was hoping for the best but we need solid consistent contributors from bench. i refuse to believe we cannot do better than rozier off the bench...get to work Danny!

A sharpshooter to pair with either Smart or Rozier changes the bench dynamics significantly.

Hayward back, Morris to the bench and add a 40% 3-point guy -- and we'll have something.  In the meantime, we have two guys in Smart and TR who bring energy, effort, defense, change of pace, and an occasional big shot to the table.  C's aren't GSW yet.  But who here thought we would be?

Having a sharpshooter clearly would help.  But you still have two non-shooting guards, or ballhandlers in Stevens' system, on the floor at the same time.  It's a big problem.

I don't think anyone had particularly high expectations for Rozier this season.  What I did expect was better shooting percentages - right now through 19 games he's shooting a miserable 33.7% (significantly worse than last year) and 32.6% from 3 (marginally better than last year).  That's downright pathetic.  Add that to the fact that he hasn't made much strides in running PnR or in decision making and you have a disappointing player, even if expectations were low.

Rozier did have some very good moments in the 4th yesterday though.  Played with good energy, chipped in a few points and made a really good play where he rebounded the ball, pushed it aggressively up the court and kicked it out to Smart in transition who then passed it to Tatum for a wide open 3.  But otherwise he just isn't consistent enough.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: jambr380 on November 23, 2017, 04:32:39 PM
It's not that Rozier sucks, it's just that he should be handling the ball about as much as Avery Bradley. When he catches and shoots or comes off a pick, then catches and shoots, he seems to be very effective. It's when he tries to create for himself that he gets out of control. On outside shots, once he picks up his dribble and raises up, he drifts about 5 feet in the air before landing. And we all know his finishing limitations despite his ability to get by his man.

I am not giving up on Rozier. He rebounds like a mad man, doesn't turn it over (despite dribbling it off his foot last night), seems to hit open/set jumpers, and pokes the ball away from an offensive player as well as anybody. I am all for bringing in another 'sharp-shooter', but the defensive dynamics would change greatly if it's at the expense of Rozier.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: mobilija on November 23, 2017, 06:00:21 PM
Rozier has value on this team. It's just not shooting the ball... Good defense, excellent rebounding, doesn't turn the ball over. He must be doing something right to be a part of the team with the best record.

Instead of trying to get rid of a player that contributes to winning, why not think about trading some of our developmental players and picks. Surely we have enough of those things to acquire the journeyman scorer or sharpshooter or big man or whatever....
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: CELTICSofBOSTON on November 23, 2017, 07:04:18 PM
Will Barton would be perfect for this team.  I would like to keep Terry and Marcus Smart as well.  I don’t think either of those guys are high level shot makers especially Marcus Smart but they take a lot of shots because they need to without a shot creator off the bench.  Barton would fit in perfectly.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Chris22 on November 23, 2017, 07:27:55 PM
Rozier was a plus one last night and he made his free throws in the clutch.
I don't understand why Celtic fans hate their players.

Maybe it was the 2-for-8 shooting?

So? He's a plus 1 playing with the second unit.
Morris was a minus 12.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: cman88 on November 23, 2017, 08:49:28 PM
I think its because he was built up prior to the start of last season that he was ready to have a "breakout season offensively" then he came out and was pretty much the same player. Same thing happened this year. He also tends to have tunnel vision and play selfishly when he has the ball IMO

Him and marcus could build the great wall of china with the amount of bricks they are putting up on the second unit.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Roy H. on November 23, 2017, 08:54:09 PM
Rozier was a plus one last night and he made his free throws in the clutch.
I don't understand why Celtic fans hate their players.

Maybe it was the 2-for-8 shooting?

So? He's a plus 1 playing with the second unit.
Morris was a minus 12.

Mbah a Moute was a +57 for the Rockets the other night. Best player ever?

Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: gouki88 on November 23, 2017, 09:05:41 PM
Rozier was a plus one last night and he made his free throws in the clutch.
I don't understand why Celtic fans hate their players.

Maybe it was the 2-for-8 shooting?

So? He's a plus 1 playing with the second unit.
Morris was a minus 12.

Mbah a Moute was a +57 for the Rockets the other night. Best player ever?
Don't underestimate the prince  ;D
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: mobilija on November 23, 2017, 09:46:28 PM
Rozier was a plus one last night and he made his free throws in the clutch.
I don't understand why Celtic fans hate their players.

Maybe it was the 2-for-8 shooting?

So? He's a plus 1 playing with the second unit.
Morris was a minus 12.

Mbah a Moute was a +57 for the Rockets the other night. Best player ever?

Right?!? I found an old Michael Jordan box score where he went 1-15. Worst player ever?
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Chris22 on November 23, 2017, 11:16:52 PM
Rozier was a plus one last night and he made his free throws in the clutch.
I don't understand why Celtic fans hate their players.

Maybe it was the 2-for-8 shooting?

So? He's a plus 1 playing with the second unit.
Morris was a minus 12.

Mbah a Moute was a +57 for the Rockets the other night. Best player ever?

When you lose an argument on facts, change the subject.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Roy H. on November 23, 2017, 11:29:33 PM
Rozier was a plus one last night and he made his free throws in the clutch.
I don't understand why Celtic fans hate their players.

Maybe it was the 2-for-8 shooting?

So? He's a plus 1 playing with the second unit.
Morris was a minus 12.

Mbah a Moute was a +57 for the Rockets the other night. Best player ever?

When you lose an argument on facts, change the subject.

Is 2-for-8 not a fact?

Is 33.7% FG% not a fact?

Offense matters.

Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Beat LA on November 24, 2017, 12:11:18 AM
Rozier was a plus one last night and he made his free throws in the clutch.
I don't understand why Celtic fans hate their players.

Aha!  Mystery solved.  It's not that Rozier can't shoot, it's that he was tied down by previous wedding commitments ;).
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Chris22 on November 24, 2017, 02:37:05 AM
Rozier was a plus one last night and he made his free throws in the clutch.
I don't understand why Celtic fans hate their players.

Maybe it was the 2-for-8 shooting?

So? He's a plus 1 playing with the second unit.
Morris was a minus 12.

Mbah a Moute was a +57 for the Rockets the other night. Best player ever?

When you lose an argument on facts, change the subject.

Is 2-for-8 not a fact?

Is 33.7% FG% not a fact?

Offense matters.

8 points, 6 rebounds, 2 steals, and 1 assist in 18 minutes and a plus 1.
We were outrebounded by 12. That is why we lost.
Rozier played well.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: mobilija on November 24, 2017, 08:38:37 AM
Rozier was a plus one last night and he made his free throws in the clutch.
I don't understand why Celtic fans hate their players.

Maybe it was the 2-for-8 shooting?

So? He's a plus 1 playing with the second unit.
Morris was a minus 12.

Mbah a Moute was a +57 for the Rockets the other night. Best player ever?

When you lose an argument on facts, change the subject.

Is 2-for-8 not a fact?

Is 33.7% FG% not a fact?

Offense matters.

And everything else doesn't?
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Darío SpanishFan on November 24, 2017, 09:34:08 AM
Rozier was a plus one last night and he made his free throws in the clutch.
I don't understand why Celtic fans hate their players.

Maybe it was the 2-for-8 shooting?

So? He's a plus 1 playing with the second unit.
Morris was a minus 12.

TP and knock out.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Roy H. on November 24, 2017, 09:37:15 AM
Rozier was a plus one last night and he made his free throws in the clutch.
I don't understand why Celtic fans hate their players.

Maybe it was the 2-for-8 shooting?

So? He's a plus 1 playing with the second unit.
Morris was a minus 12.

Mbah a Moute was a +57 for the Rockets the other night. Best player ever?

When you lose an argument on facts, change the subject.

Is 2-for-8 not a fact?

Is 33.7% FG% not a fact?

Offense matters.

8 points, 6 rebounds, 2 steals, and 1 assist in 18 minutes and a plus 1.
We were outrebounded by 12. That is why we lost.
Rozier played well.

25% shooting is not “playing well”. He might have done some things well, but overall the number of shots he’s missing — especially in combination with Smart — hurts the team.

Misusing +/- doesn’t show us anything. Kyrie was -4. Was he worse than Rozier? Was he the same as Smart (also a -4)?

On the year, Rozier is +36 for a 16-3 team. That’s not all that special, especially considering that Shane Larkin is +35. It’s the worst for any guy on the team who has averaged at least as many minutes as Rozier.

Again, if you falsely equate positive plus-minus with positive impact, then Mbah a Moute positively contributed 150%+ more in one game than Rozier has all season.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: cman88 on November 24, 2017, 11:08:20 AM
when a GUARD is averaging 33% in Field goal percentage that is bad. When you pair it with another guard averaging 25% it is even worse.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: KGs Knee on November 24, 2017, 11:11:08 AM
when a GUARD is averaging 33% in Field goal percentage that is bad. When you pair it with another guard averaging 25% it is even worse.

Yeah, you can get away with one guard shooting that poorly, so long as they contribute in other areas. But you cannot have both your reserve guards shooting that poorly, it just puts so much pressure on everyone else to have to pick up the slack on offense.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: cman88 on November 24, 2017, 11:16:40 AM
when a GUARD is averaging 33% in Field goal percentage that is bad. When you pair it with another guard averaging 25% it is even worse.

Yeah, you can get away with one guard shooting that poorly, so long as they contribute in other areas. But you cannot have both your reserve guards shooting that poorly, it just puts so much pressure on everyone else to have to pick up the slack on offense.

whats more frustrating is that even when brad is putting tatum/brown out there with them to try and boost the offense they just keep getting tunnel vision and bricking away. some of these games Rozier/smart are taking more shots that Tatum. I know brad says he just wants rozier/smart to take "good shots" but at some point you have to tell these guys to stop looking for their shot and just look to create for others.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: nickagneta on November 24, 2017, 12:03:11 PM
I didn't think that Rozier had all that exceptional defensive play last game. Dragic torched everyone in the first half and Waiters did the same thing in the second half. Rozier covered both players for long periods of time. Add that to his poor shooting and its not like Rozier had a very good game. Heck, except Tatum, I don't think anyone played well.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: SCeltic34 on November 24, 2017, 04:19:19 PM
Rozier was a plus one last night and he made his free throws in the clutch.
I don't understand why Celtic fans hate their players.

Maybe it was the 2-for-8 shooting?

So? He's a plus 1 playing with the second unit.
Morris was a minus 12.

TP and knock out.

Interpreting +/- without context - i.e. using it as an exclusive means of measuring performance - will lead to spurious conclusions.  The same is true for many individual sports stats.

I'm not sure how Rozier having a +1 for the game is by any means a solid argument that he had a good game.  He didn't.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Chris22 on November 24, 2017, 05:36:59 PM
Rozier was a plus one last night and he made his free throws in the clutch.
I don't understand why Celtic fans hate their players.

Maybe it was the 2-for-8 shooting?

So? He's a plus 1 playing with the second unit.
Morris was a minus 12.

TP and knock out.

Interpreting +/- without context - i.e. using it as an exclusive means of measuring performance - will lead to spurious conclusions.  The same is true for many individual sports stats.

I'm not sure how Rozier having a +1 for the game is by any means a solid argument that he had a good game.  He didn't.

8 points, 6 rebounds, 2 steals, and 1 assist in 18 minutes and a plus 1.
We were outrebounded by 12. That is why we lost.
Rozier played well.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: mrceltics2013 on November 24, 2017, 06:19:23 PM
I am and always will be. Rozier > Smart. Rozier just needs to analyze and calm done.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: dreamgreen on November 24, 2017, 06:59:52 PM
I'd like to trade him and Smart for a veteran backup PG that is steady can pass, shoot and be a positive influence.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: SCeltic34 on November 24, 2017, 07:12:44 PM
Rozier was a plus one last night and he made his free throws in the clutch.
I don't understand why Celtic fans hate their players.

Maybe it was the 2-for-8 shooting?

So? He's a plus 1 playing with the second unit.
Morris was a minus 12.

TP and knock out.

Interpreting +/- without context - i.e. using it as an exclusive means of measuring performance - will lead to spurious conclusions.  The same is true for many individual sports stats.

I'm not sure how Rozier having a +1 for the game is by any means a solid argument that he had a good game.  He didn't.

8 points, 6 rebounds, 2 steals, and 1 assist in 18 minutes and a plus 1.
We were outrebounded by 12. That is why we lost.
Rozier played well.

He had an uninspiring 1st half and a very solid 4th quarter.  Overall it was a mediocre game.   6 rebs and 2 steals is impressive from a pure stats standpoint.  The rest isn't - 2 TOs (one following a steal) and 2-8 shooting.

We lost due to a combination of factors, as is usually the case.  We missed a ton of free throws.  We grabbed as many offensive rebs as Miami, but they had more D rebounds because we shot the ball so poorly.  Waiter's lucky shot was a big factor.

I've been a Rozier supporter since his rookie season.  He has the tools to be a good player and I'm not writing him off yet.  But he's been very underwhelming so far this season.

Edit - Miami, not Atlanta.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Roy H. on November 24, 2017, 07:13:54 PM
Rozier was a plus one last night and he made his free throws in the clutch.
I don't understand why Celtic fans hate their players.

Maybe it was the 2-for-8 shooting?

So? He's a plus 1 playing with the second unit.
Morris was a minus 12.

TP and knock out.

Interpreting +/- without context - i.e. using it as an exclusive means of measuring performance - will lead to spurious conclusions.  The same is true for many individual sports stats.

I'm not sure how Rozier having a +1 for the game is by any means a solid argument that he had a good game.  He didn't.

8 points, 6 rebounds, 2 steals, and 1 assist in 18 minutes and a plus 1.
We were outrebounded by 12. That is why we lost.
Rozier played well.

Part of the reason we were outrebounded was the six bricks Rozier threw up there.  Missed shots give the other team more opportunities for boards.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: nickagneta on November 24, 2017, 07:20:44 PM
Rozier was a plus one last night and he made his free throws in the clutch.
I don't understand why Celtic fans hate their players.

Maybe it was the 2-for-8 shooting?

So? He's a plus 1 playing with the second unit.
Morris was a minus 12.

TP and knock out.

Interpreting +/- without context - i.e. using it as an exclusive means of measuring performance - will lead to spurious conclusions.  The same is true for many individual sports stats.

I'm not sure how Rozier having a +1 for the game is by any means a solid argument that he had a good game.  He didn't.

8 points, 6 rebounds, 2 steals, and 1 assist in 18 minutes and a plus 1.
We were outrebounded by 12. That is why we lost.
Rozier played well.

Part of the reason we were outrebounded was the six bricks Rozier threw up there.  Missed shots give the other team more opportunities for boards.
And as I said, 2 steals aside, his defense was underwhelming in that game.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Roy H. on November 24, 2017, 07:23:50 PM
Rozier was a plus one last night and he made his free throws in the clutch.
I don't understand why Celtic fans hate their players.

Maybe it was the 2-for-8 shooting?

So? He's a plus 1 playing with the second unit.
Morris was a minus 12.

TP and knock out.

Interpreting +/- without context - i.e. using it as an exclusive means of measuring performance - will lead to spurious conclusions.  The same is true for many individual sports stats.

I'm not sure how Rozier having a +1 for the game is by any means a solid argument that he had a good game.  He didn't.

8 points, 6 rebounds, 2 steals, and 1 assist in 18 minutes and a plus 1.
We were outrebounded by 12. That is why we lost.
Rozier played well.

Part of the reason we were outrebounded was the six bricks Rozier threw up there.  Missed shots give the other team more opportunities for boards.
And as I said, 2 steals aside, his defense was underwhelming in that game.

Yeah, but he was +1. On the season his +/- is almost identical to Larkin, and we all know how good he is.  Game, set, match.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Darío SpanishFan on November 24, 2017, 08:34:40 PM
(https://giphy.com/gifs/hello-adele-im-sorry-but-the-beginning-of-song-its-very-familiar-BVStb13YiR5Qs)
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Phantom255x on November 24, 2017, 08:37:26 PM
@Boston Garden Leprechaun is a HUGE Rozier fan from what I've heard.

 :laugh:
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: trickybilly on November 24, 2017, 08:38:23 PM
Feels like this thread should get bumped every few games...
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Phantom255x on November 24, 2017, 08:43:28 PM
Feels like this thread should get bumped every few games...

Next Game: "TRADE ROZIER!"  :laugh:
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Roy H. on November 24, 2017, 08:44:21 PM
Hopefully he has more games like tonight and makes this thread irrelevant.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: drogbagarnett on November 24, 2017, 08:46:35 PM
Hopefully he has more games like tonight and makes this thread irrelevant.

Like i said its a young bench.
They are capable.
Give them a chance to figure it out.
Defense is awesone, once shoots start falling watchout!
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on November 24, 2017, 09:32:52 PM
Rozier is one of those dudes that can't make the adjustment from being 'the man' to a role player in the big leagues.  Makes him entertaining as heck to watch imo, but probably doesn't bode well for his future.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: SCeltic34 on November 24, 2017, 09:42:18 PM
Feels like this thread should get bumped every few games...

Next Game: "TRADE ROZIER!"  :laugh:

Sounds about right.  He's the new whipping boy
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: KGs Knee on November 24, 2017, 09:42:56 PM
If Rozier consistently played like even 50% of the player he looked like tonight I'd be a fan.

Great game, lets see him continue this.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: OldSchoolDude on November 24, 2017, 10:42:08 PM
I wonder if Rozier reads these boards and decided to comment on this post non verbally.  He played well tonight.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Chris22 on November 24, 2017, 10:45:19 PM
I wonder if Rozier reads these boards and decided to comment on this post non verbally.  He played well tonight.

Rozier plays well most nights.
He played really well in the playoffs, but Celtic fans like to hate on their players.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: green_bballers13 on November 24, 2017, 10:56:33 PM
I wonder if Rozier reads these boards and decided to comment on this post non verbally.  He played well tonight.

Rozier plays well most nights.
He played really well in the playoffs, but Celtic fans like to hate on their players.

That's not true. Only some Celtics fans like to hate on Rozier and Irving.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Roy H. on November 24, 2017, 11:03:04 PM
I wonder if Rozier reads these boards and decided to comment on this post non verbally.  He played well tonight.

Rozier plays well most nights.
He played really well in the playoffs, but Celtic fans like to hate on their players.

He’s had more games with an eFG% lower than .375 than he has with one over .500.  He’s shot extremely poorly this year, notwithstanding tonight.

Celtics fans, in general, want to upgrad the team’s weaknesses. That’s not “hate”.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on November 24, 2017, 11:11:51 PM
I wonder if Rozier reads these boards and decided to comment on this post non verbally.  He played well tonight.

Rozier plays well most nights.
He played really well in the playoffs, but Celtic fans like to hate on their players.

He’s had more games with an eFG% lower than .375 than he has with one over .500.  He’s shot extremely poorly this year, notwithstanding tonight.

Celtics fans, in general, want to upgrad the team’s weaknesses. That’s not “hate”.

Every journey begins with a small step.

Every good shooting streak begins with a "hot" game.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Chris22 on November 24, 2017, 11:15:55 PM
I wonder if Rozier reads these boards and decided to comment on this post non verbally.  He played well tonight.

Rozier plays well most nights.
He played really well in the playoffs, but Celtic fans like to hate on their players.

That's not true. Only some Celtics fans like to hate on Rozier and Irving.

Irving is a god.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Fred Roberts on November 24, 2017, 11:18:10 PM
With this offensive upside coupled with his athleticism and defensive upside, there's plenty to like. 23 years old. Not a finished product, obviously.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: drogbagarnett on November 24, 2017, 11:18:39 PM
I wonder if Rozier reads these boards and decided to comment on this post non verbally.  He played well tonight.

Rozier plays well most nights.
He played really well in the playoffs, but Celtic fans like to hate on their players.

He’s had more games with an eFG% lower than .375 than he has with one over .500.  He’s shot extremely poorly this year, notwithstanding tonight.

Celtics fans, in general, want to upgrad the team’s weaknesses. That’s not “hate”.

All I can say is im glad its Danny who take the upgrading decisions for the Celtics!
2 areas that need upgrades and Rozier's position/role is not one of them.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Chris22 on November 24, 2017, 11:19:44 PM
I wonder if Rozier reads these boards and decided to comment on this post non verbally.  He played well tonight.

Rozier plays well most nights.
He played really well in the playoffs, but Celtic fans like to hate on their players.

He’s had more games with an eFG% lower than .375 than he has with one over .500.  He’s shot extremely poorly this year, notwithstanding tonight.

Celtics fans, in general, want to upgrad the team’s weaknesses. That’s not “hate”.

Most of Rozier's shots are 3s.
In the last five games, he is shooting 44% from 3.
It is always good to look deeper at stats.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Roy H. on November 24, 2017, 11:34:43 PM
I wonder if Rozier reads these boards and decided to comment on this post non verbally.  He played well tonight.

Rozier plays well most nights.
He played really well in the playoffs, but Celtic fans like to hate on their players.

He’s had more games with an eFG% lower than .375 than he has with one over .500.  He’s shot extremely poorly this year, notwithstanding tonight.

Celtics fans, in general, want to upgrad the team’s weaknesses. That’s not “hate”.

Most of Rozier's shots are 3s.
In the last five games, he is shooting 44% from 3.
It is always good to look deeper at stats.

eFG% accounts for threes.  His shooting has been terrible.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Celtics4ever on November 25, 2017, 12:37:41 AM
Still I bet he had some fans tonight I wager
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Darío SpanishFan on November 25, 2017, 05:11:11 AM
I wonder if Rozier reads these boards and decided to comment on this post non verbally.  He played well tonight.

Rozier plays well most nights.
He played really well in the playoffs, but Celtic fans like to hate on their players.

He’s had more games with an eFG% lower than .375 than he has with one over .500.  He’s shot extremely poorly this year, notwithstanding tonight.

Celtics fans, in general, want to upgrad the team’s weaknesses. That’s not “hate”.

Yes. For example as you said in this thread, with a G-League player (where James Young scores 40) or a cooked FA like Deron Williams instead of Rozier.

What an upgrade  :laugh:
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Celtics4ever on November 25, 2017, 07:19:01 AM
Quote
Celtic fans like to hate on their players.

I actually think Boston Fans tend to overrate our players.   The rest of league knew that Sullinger gassed and a lost cause before many here did.   People always think that our free agents are going to command a lot more than they do.    Haven't you ever seen some of the lop-sided trades that are proposed here?   Or the talk about Yabusele being the next Draymond Green.   So I clearly think that the opposite is true.

It's a City of Champions so expectations are high.   Winning is expected in Boston and Championships are the end goal just not making the playoffs or having a good year.   People expect to win and if you're a detriment to winning you're resented and the flaws are pointed out.  But the caveat is, if you overestimate your talent and expect to win it is only natural that guys who don't perform will take the heat.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: mctyson on November 25, 2017, 07:49:27 AM
Quote
Celtic fans like to hate on their players.

I actually think Boston Fans tend to overrate our players.   The rest of league knew that Sullinger gassed and a lost cause before many here did.   People always think that our free agents are going to command a lot more than they do.    Haven't you ever seen some of the lop-sided trades that are proposed here?   Or the talk about Yabusele being the next Draymond Green.   So I clearly think that the opposite is true.

This is nonsense.  All fans of teams rate their players higher than players on other teams.  It's called bias.  I am sure Magic fans think Elfrid Peyton's hair looks good.

As for Rozier, he is a 23-year old on a rookie deal who at this time is a plus defender and elite rebounder for a PG.  His shooting is not good enough and he is not a creator.  The question is:  will those deficiencies improve?  If you are a fan of his, you are betting yes.  If you are not, you are betting no.  That simple.

I think most Celtics fans are of course fans of Rozier and therefore think that he still has room to improve.  That is not overrating.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Boston Garden Leprechaun on November 25, 2017, 10:23:01 AM
Still I bet he had some fans tonight I wager

sure. rozier is bi polar though in his shooting. we need CONSISTENCY not dr jeckyll and Mr hyde.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Chris22 on November 25, 2017, 10:30:16 PM
When is the OP going to admit he was wrong?
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Phantom255x on November 25, 2017, 10:46:41 PM
I never doubted Rozier for a second!

 :laugh:
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Jiri Welsch on November 25, 2017, 10:48:42 PM
When is the OP going to admit he was wrong?

That’s not what Mr. Hobbs does. He just....doesn’t.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: nickagneta on November 25, 2017, 10:53:30 PM
Wait...Rozier had two good to great games. He has sucked for weeks. Let's see Rozier consistently shooting and contributing well before having someone say they were wrong about Rozier. Terry's last two games of shooting is a complete anomaly as compared to the rest of his career.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Eddie20 on November 25, 2017, 10:55:10 PM
When is the OP going to admit he was wrong?

That’s not what Mr. Hobbs does. He just....doesn’t.

In his defense, I think he admitted to being wrong about the Nets trade and seems to be warming up to the idea that Ainge made the correct choice in opting for Tatum over Fultz.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Snakehead on November 25, 2017, 10:58:01 PM
Rozier was good, off for a while, then had his two best games the last two.  No reason to be negative on him.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Ilikesports17 on November 25, 2017, 11:01:07 PM
Rozier was good, off for a while, then had his two best games the last two.  No reason to be negative on him.
There is plenty of reason
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Snakehead on November 25, 2017, 11:04:56 PM
Rozier was good, off for a while, then had his two best games the last two.  No reason to be negative on him.
There is plenty of reason

lol oh okay nevermind then.

I think he can shoot 3's for example.  His shooting will even out.  I think he still has a lot of upside.  But he is not a guy you want to rely on.  The Celtics shouldn't have to (and especially wouldn't if they had Hayward).  I'm sorry but I don't see much to be outraged about.  Even if you want more of a PG, you can play Larkin and he has given the team good minutes this year.  I like Rozier and the last two games are encouraging.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on November 25, 2017, 11:08:51 PM
Rozier is one of those dudes that can't make the adjustment from being 'the man' to a role player in the big leagues.  Makes him entertaining as heck to watch imo, but probably doesn't bode well for his future.

Yeah, this really does seem true.  He's a gamer/big shot maker.  He's also athletic.  But he has a low BBIQ and is now very average in ability at the NBA level.  He just hasn't learned that yet, or refuses to. 
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: KGs Knee on November 25, 2017, 11:13:31 PM
Wait...Rozier had two good to great games. He has sucked for weeks. Let's see Rozier consistently shooting and contributing well before having someone say they were wrong about Rozier. Terry's last two games of shooting is a complete anomaly as compared to the rest of his career.

Getting his season average FG% over 40 would be a start.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on November 25, 2017, 11:14:53 PM
Wait...Rozier had two good to great games. He has sucked for weeks. Let's see Rozier consistently shooting and contributing well before having someone say they were wrong about Rozier. Terry's last two games of shooting is a complete anomaly as compared to the rest of his career.

Getting his season average FG% over 40 would be a start.

38% is pretty close, and he is trending up.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on November 25, 2017, 11:17:40 PM
Wait...Rozier had two good to great games. He has sucked for weeks. Let's see Rozier consistently shooting and contributing well before having someone say they were wrong about Rozier. Terry's last two games of shooting is a complete anomaly as compared to the rest of his career.

Getting his season average FG% over 40 would be a start.

38% is pretty close, and he is trending up.

He's also benefiting from playing in arguably the best system in the NBA, alongside very good players.  Really not being asked to do all that much.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Roy H. on November 25, 2017, 11:18:58 PM
When is the OP going to admit he was wrong?

That’s not what Mr. Hobbs does. He just....doesn’t.

I’m happy to admit when I’m wrong.

Rozier has had two straight good games, but coming into tonight had shot 35% from the field for roughly the past month.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: More Banners on November 26, 2017, 12:03:47 AM
Rookie year, it was d-league.

Last year, he earned some minutes in time and eventually contributed in the playoffs.

This year, he is playing regular, if limited, minutes.

I like the trajectory so far, and expect when the game slows down for him, look out.

Still a fan. Could be another solid late 1st round guard pick by Danny.  Not saying he's the next E'Twaun Moore, Delonte, or Rondo, but he is no Shammond Williams or Sebastian Telfair either.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Chris22 on November 26, 2017, 12:45:21 AM
Rookie year, it was d-league.

Last year, he earned some minutes in time and eventually contributed in the playoffs.

This year, he is playing regular, if limited, minutes.

I like the trajectory so far, and expect when the game slows down for him, look out.

Still a fan. Could be another solid late 1st round guard pick by Danny.  Not saying he's the next E'Twaun Moore, Delonte, or Rondo, but he is no Shammond Williams or Sebastian Telfair either.

Rozier is already better than Moore or Delonte.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Roy H. on November 26, 2017, 01:03:55 AM
Rookie year, it was d-league.

Last year, he earned some minutes in time and eventually contributed in the playoffs.

This year, he is playing regular, if limited, minutes.

I like the trajectory so far, and expect when the game slows down for him, look out.

Still a fan. Could be another solid late 1st round guard pick by Danny.  Not saying he's the next E'Twaun Moore, Delonte, or Rondo, but he is no Shammond Williams or Sebastian Telfair either.

Rozier is already better than Moore or Delonte.

He’s not better than Delonte.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Chris22 on November 26, 2017, 01:20:31 AM
Rookie year, it was d-league.

Last year, he earned some minutes in time and eventually contributed in the playoffs.

This year, he is playing regular, if limited, minutes.

I like the trajectory so far, and expect when the game slows down for him, look out.

Still a fan. Could be another solid late 1st round guard pick by Danny.  Not saying he's the next E'Twaun Moore, Delonte, or Rondo, but he is no Shammond Williams or Sebastian Telfair either.

Rozier is already better than Moore or Delonte.

He’s not better than Delonte.

Yes, he is.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Roy H. on November 26, 2017, 01:26:08 AM
Rookie year, it was d-league.

Last year, he earned some minutes in time and eventually contributed in the playoffs.

This year, he is playing regular, if limited, minutes.

I like the trajectory so far, and expect when the game slows down for him, look out.

Still a fan. Could be another solid late 1st round guard pick by Danny.  Not saying he's the next E'Twaun Moore, Delonte, or Rondo, but he is no Shammond Williams or Sebastian Telfair either.

Rozier is already better than Moore or Delonte.

He’s not better than Delonte.

Yes, he is.

Except at scoring, passing, and shooting. I’m not sure that Rozier is even a better defender than D. West.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Chris22 on November 26, 2017, 01:43:03 AM
Rookie year, it was d-league.

Last year, he earned some minutes in time and eventually contributed in the playoffs.

This year, he is playing regular, if limited, minutes.

I like the trajectory so far, and expect when the game slows down for him, look out.

Still a fan. Could be another solid late 1st round guard pick by Danny.  Not saying he's the next E'Twaun Moore, Delonte, or Rondo, but he is no Shammond Williams or Sebastian Telfair either.

Rozier is already better than Moore or Delonte.

He’s not better than Delonte.

Yes, he is.

Except at scoring, passing, and shooting. I’m not sure that Rozier is even a better defender than D. West.

Sorry, I disagree.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Sixth Man on November 26, 2017, 02:40:29 AM
Rookie year, it was d-league.

Last year, he earned some minutes in time and eventually contributed in the playoffs.

This year, he is playing regular, if limited, minutes.

I like the trajectory so far, and expect when the game slows down for him, look out.

Still a fan. Could be another solid late 1st round guard pick by Danny.  Not saying he's the next E'Twaun Moore, Delonte, or Rondo, but he is no Shammond Williams or Sebastian Telfair either.

Rozier is already better than Moore or Delonte.

He’s not better than Delonte.

Yes, he is.

Except at scoring, passing, and shooting. I’m not sure that Rozier is even a better defender than D. West.

This has to be one of the strangest posts I've ever read on this site.  This topic is about TERRY Rozier, not CLIFFORD Rozier! 
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on November 26, 2017, 03:01:40 AM
Rookie year, it was d-league.

Last year, he earned some minutes in time and eventually contributed in the playoffs.

This year, he is playing regular, if limited, minutes.

I like the trajectory so far, and expect when the game slows down for him, look out.

Still a fan. Could be another solid late 1st round guard pick by Danny.  Not saying he's the next E'Twaun Moore, Delonte, or Rondo, but he is no Shammond Williams or Sebastian Telfair either.

Rozier is already better than Moore or Delonte.

He’s not better than Delonte.

Yes, he is.

Except at scoring, passing, and shooting. I’m not sure that Rozier is even a better defender than D. West.

This has to be one of the strangest posts I've ever read on this site.  This topic is about TERRY Rozier, not CLIFFORD Rozier!

Delonte West was a solid rotation player for years, and Rozier hasn't been better than him nor proven that he can be the same.  Why should he have a higher ceiling? 
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: jdz101 on November 26, 2017, 03:23:54 AM
This thread just gets better and better
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on November 26, 2017, 03:36:43 AM
This thread just gets better and better

Nice.  It seemed to be struggling.  Elaborate?
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Sixth Man on November 26, 2017, 06:04:23 AM
Rookie year, it was d-league.

Last year, he earned some minutes in time and eventually contributed in the playoffs.

This year, he is playing regular, if limited, minutes.

I like the trajectory so far, and expect when the game slows down for him, look out.

Still a fan. Could be another solid late 1st round guard pick by Danny.  Not saying he's the next E'Twaun Moore, Delonte, or Rondo, but he is no Shammond Williams or Sebastian Telfair either.

Rozier is already better than Moore or Delonte.

He’s not better than Delonte.

Yes, he is.

Except at scoring, passing, and shooting. I’m not sure that Rozier is even a better defender than D. West.

This has to be one of the strangest posts I've ever read on this site.  This topic is about TERRY Rozier, not CLIFFORD Rozier!

Delonte West was a solid rotation player for years, and Rozier hasn't been better than him nor proven that he can be the same.  Why should he have a higher ceiling?

Yes, DW was exactly as you described.  However, Rozier, barring serious injuries, will be much better than that.  But hey, believe what you will...
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Darío SpanishFan on November 26, 2017, 06:22:50 AM
Head and attitude also matter when evaluating a player. So Rozier is already better than Delonte West, both in game impact and numbers (while he is only in his third season and West played like 10 years in the league).

West never averaged over 12 points while playing several seasons more than 30 minutes per game. He was not Stephen Curry or anything close to that  ::) 
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Androslav on November 26, 2017, 06:34:24 AM
TP Dario.
Terry is probably the quickest guy in the whole league.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: makaveli on November 26, 2017, 06:38:37 AM
I love this thread
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: JBcat on November 26, 2017, 08:01:55 AM
I like him better than Smart who I think is just terrible. I just hate they always play together. Brick City
When they are on the floor together, the Celtics outscore opponents by 10.1 points per 100 possessions.

They aren’t perfect but they are a big reason for this.

They are both 23 now and at some point you just have to say they are what they are.  It’s easy to fall into the Kelly Olynyk syndrome where you see pockets of hope every year, but never that big leap in their game.

What’s frustrating for me is Rozier has the physical profile to be so much better.  You see lanes for him to drive so much more if only he was more confident and crafty in his ball handling. He has the burst and first step but rarely uses it IMO.

He’s finally doing the last couple games what I mentioned here with driving to the hoop.  Really good to see. He can drive by so many guards in this league if he puts his mind to it. I’m not really worried about his outside shot too as he had a clean form.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Roy H. on November 26, 2017, 08:16:46 AM
Head and attitude also matter when evaluating a player. So Rozier is already better than Delonte West, both in game impact and numbers (while he is only in his third season and West played like 10 years in the league).

West never averaged over 12 points while playing several seasons more than 30 minutes per game. He was not Stephen Curry or anything close to that  ::)

Who said he was Steph Curry?

My guess is that you never saw Delonte in his first stint in Boston.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Darío SpanishFan on November 26, 2017, 08:25:01 AM
Head and attitude also matter when evaluating a player. So Rozier is already better than Delonte West, both in game impact and numbers (while he is only in his third season and West played like 10 years in the league).

West never averaged over 12 points while playing several seasons more than 30 minutes per game. He was not Stephen Curry or anything close to that  ::)

Who said he was Steph Curry?

My guess is that you never saw Delonte in his first stint in Boston.

You are wrong (again). I've watched all the Celtics games since the Internet has allowed me to do that. So I had to watch people like Dan Dickau or Orien Greene playing for us.

Delonte West was an average starter, not more, in a very bad team at those years. His numbers were decent, but not great. So was his game. I'd like to see Rozier in that situation.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Roy H. on November 26, 2017, 08:32:01 AM
Head and attitude also matter when evaluating a player. So Rozier is already better than Delonte West, both in game impact and numbers (while he is only in his third season and West played like 10 years in the league).

West never averaged over 12 points while playing several seasons more than 30 minutes per game. He was not Stephen Curry or anything close to that  ::)

Who said he was Steph Curry?

My guess is that you never saw Delonte in his first stint in Boston.

You are wrong (again). I've watched all the Celtics games since the Internet has allowed me to do that. So I had to watch people like Dan Dickau or Orien Greene playing for us.

Delonte West was an average starter, not more, in a very bad team at those years. His numbers were decent, but not great. So was his game. I'd like to see Rozier in that situation.

It’s more you questioning Delonte’s attitude. That’s pure nonsense.

Rozier is a long way from an “average starter” right now, despite two great games. That’s not particularly controversial.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Darío SpanishFan on November 26, 2017, 09:18:07 AM
Head and attitude also matter when evaluating a player. So Rozier is already better than Delonte West, both in game impact and numbers (while he is only in his third season and West played like 10 years in the league).

West never averaged over 12 points while playing several seasons more than 30 minutes per game. He was not Stephen Curry or anything close to that  ::)

Who said he was Steph Curry?

My guess is that you never saw Delonte in his first stint in Boston.

You are wrong (again). I've watched all the Celtics games since the Internet has allowed me to do that. So I had to watch people like Dan Dickau or Orien Greene playing for us.

Delonte West was an average starter, not more, in a very bad team at those years. His numbers were decent, but not great. So was his game. I'd like to see Rozier in that situation.

It’s more you questioning Delonte’s attitude. That’s pure nonsense.

Rozier is a long way from an “average starter” right now, despite two great games. That’s not particularly controversial.

Nonsense is trying to assume somebody not watching games at a particular time because you don't agree with him. If I talk about something is because I have a based opinion, which may differ from yours and that's all.

Using personal life or habits to "attack" other users is not very classy, especially from a moderator.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Roy H. on November 26, 2017, 09:39:19 AM
Head and attitude also matter when evaluating a player. So Rozier is already better than Delonte West, both in game impact and numbers (while he is only in his third season and West played like 10 years in the league).

West never averaged over 12 points while playing several seasons more than 30 minutes per game. He was not Stephen Curry or anything close to that  ::)

Who said he was Steph Curry?

My guess is that you never saw Delonte in his first stint in Boston.

You are wrong (again). I've watched all the Celtics games since the Internet has allowed me to do that. So I had to watch people like Dan Dickau or Orien Greene playing for us.

Delonte West was an average starter, not more, in a very bad team at those years. His numbers were decent, but not great. So was his game. I'd like to see Rozier in that situation.

It’s more you questioning Delonte’s attitude. That’s pure nonsense.

Rozier is a long way from an “average starter” right now, despite two great games. That’s not particularly controversial.

Nonsense is trying to assume somebody not watching games at a particular time because you don't agree with him. If I talk about something is because I have a based opinion, which may differ from yours and that's all.

Using personal life or habits to "attack" other users is not very classy, especially from a moderator.

There were no personal attacks. I do question how closely you watched Delonte his first time in Boston, though, if you have qualms with his attitude (or effort or work ethic).  I’m sorry if you get offended, but your opinion is absolutely wrong.  Your basketball knowledge of Delonte’s early career seems shallow, unsophisticated and not based in objective reality. Perhaps European access to NBA games then wasn’t what it is now?

Similarly , saying that Delonte is better than Terry Rozier is not the same as saying he’s better than Steph Curry, nor is it saying that Delonte was “great”.   Arguing things that nobody said seems like a poor argumentative technique, but perhaps you learned those skills on the internet, as well?
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Eddie20 on November 26, 2017, 09:58:41 AM
I'll take first stint West over Rozier and it's not even that close. West could just do more things on the court. He was a pretty heady player who was able to run the point. Rozier might be the more athletic player, but sometimes he runs around like a headless chicken.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: KGs Knee on November 26, 2017, 10:00:19 AM
A quick cursory look a Terry Rozier's first three years in the league against what Delonte West did his first three years in the league provides pretty strong evidence to refute the idea Rozier was better.

Link (https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1_hint=Delonte+West&player_id1_select=Delonte+West&y1=2007&player_id1=westde01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Terry+Rozier&player_id2_select=Terry+Rozier&y2=2018&player_id2=roziete01&idx=players)

Ignoring raw stats, and focusing on just Per 100 Poss data to adjust for minutes played and pace, Delonte is superior in most categories, including points, assists, and shooting percentage. The only category Rozier has a meaningful advantage is rebounds.

Delonte also had a better PER, WS/48, BPM, and VORP. There just isn't any data to support this notion Rozier has been better than Delonte, which fits with what I have watched with my own two eyes.

Maybe Rozier will someday be better, Delonte didn't have a long, illustrious career due to injuries and mental breakdowns. But early career Delonte was easily better than Rozier has been so far.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: cltc5 on November 26, 2017, 10:33:01 AM
 It a rozier fan at all.  Think he plays too much hero ball.  Don't hate him because he does some good things.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on November 26, 2017, 11:08:17 AM
Not a single one .  Ha Ha LOL

Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: byennie on November 26, 2017, 02:14:00 PM
Year 2 Delonte was putting up 12/5/4 as a starter, with 49/38/85 splits and played above average defense. He was a legitimate PG/SG combo guard.

Rozier is shooting a career high 38% in Year 3 and can't play the point. He's a better rebounder and more athletic.

I really hope Rozier keeps improving, and it's not like the rest of Delonte's career went according to plan, but if you could trade "right now" Rozer for Year 2/3 Delonte, you do it in a heartbeat.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: indeedproceed on November 26, 2017, 02:17:46 PM
Still here for Terry Rozier. #TeamTRo
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Chris22 on November 26, 2017, 02:23:18 PM
Still here for Terry Rozier. #TeamTRo

Hell, yes! TP
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: More Banners on November 26, 2017, 02:29:24 PM
Year 2 Delonte was putting up 12/5/4 as a starter, with 49/38/85 splits and played above average defense. He was a legitimate PG/SG combo guard.

Rozier is shooting a career high 38% in Year 3 and can't play the point. He's a better rebounder and more athletic.

I really hope Rozier keeps improving, and it's not like the rest of Delonte's career went according to plan, but if you could trade "right now" Rozer for Year 2/3 Delonte, you do it in a heartbeat.

Nope. Wouldn't swap Rozier for Young Delonte.

Rozier will improve, the game hasn't slowed down for him yet.

And he has something Delonte never did:  two hands.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Big333223 on November 26, 2017, 04:06:07 PM
Year 2 Delonte was putting up 12/5/4 as a starter, with 49/38/85 splits and played above average defense. He was a legitimate PG/SG combo guard.

Rozier is shooting a career high 38% in Year 3 and can't play the point. He's a better rebounder and more athletic.

I really hope Rozier keeps improving, and it's not like the rest of Delonte's career went according to plan, but if you could trade "right now" Rozer for Year 2/3 Delonte, you do it in a heartbeat.

Nope. Wouldn't swap Rozier for Young Delonte.

Rozier will improve, the game hasn't slowed down for him yet.

And he has something Delonte never did:  two hands.
That's answering a different question, though, isn't it? You'd keep Rozier because you feel confident that Rozier will improve and, eventually, be better than Delonte was. But the debate going on was about whether or not Rozier is now better than Delonte West was.

And if I have the choice between 2017 Rozier and 2006 Delonte for one game or one season, I would absolutely take Delonte and I don't know what the argument for Rozier would even be.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Darío SpanishFan on November 26, 2017, 05:28:51 PM
Year 2 Delonte was putting up 12/5/4 as a starter, with 49/38/85 splits and played above average defense. He was a legitimate PG/SG combo guard.

Rozier is shooting a career high 38% in Year 3 and can't play the point. He's a better rebounder and more athletic.

I really hope Rozier keeps improving, and it's not like the rest of Delonte's career went according to plan, but if you could trade "right now" Rozer for Year 2/3 Delonte, you do it in a heartbeat.

Nope. Wouldn't swap Rozier for Young Delonte.

Rozier will improve, the game hasn't slowed down for him yet.

And he has something Delonte never did:  two hands.
That's answering a different question, though, isn't it? You'd keep Rozier because you feel confident that Rozier will improve and, eventually, be better than Delonte was. But the debate going on was about whether or not Rozier is now better than Delonte West was.

And if I have the choice between 2017 Rozier and 2006 Delonte for one game or one season, I would absolutely take Delonte and I don't know what the argument for Rozier would even be.

As I've said, context matters. A lot.

Delonte West was the PG (sometimes SG) for a bad team, with 30+ minutes playing and the freedom to do many things. Rozier is playing for a PO team (in fact, a number 1 seed) limited minutes and he feels he has to do many things in so little time, which is not good for his game, very quick and sometimes reckless. Hopefully, he'll keep improving but the tools are there: extremely high athleticism, vertical jump, instinct and outside scoring. He also has the problem of playing a lot of minutes with Smart, which doesn't attract defenses to free him.

I feel Rozier's impact on the game is higher than Delonte and it will be even better as the season advances. Being the 7th-8th man on a 18-3 team (AND one of only three players in all 21 games) means something, at least for me.

BTW, I liked Delonte a lot. After his two first seasons, I thought he could be a good starter with around 17 ppg, 6 rpg and 7 apg for many years. Unfortunately, it wasn't so.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: KGs Knee on November 26, 2017, 05:51:01 PM
Year 2 Delonte was putting up 12/5/4 as a starter, with 49/38/85 splits and played above average defense. He was a legitimate PG/SG combo guard.

Rozier is shooting a career high 38% in Year 3 and can't play the point. He's a better rebounder and more athletic.

I really hope Rozier keeps improving, and it's not like the rest of Delonte's career went according to plan, but if you could trade "right now" Rozer for Year 2/3 Delonte, you do it in a heartbeat.

Nope. Wouldn't swap Rozier for Young Delonte.

Rozier will improve, the game hasn't slowed down for him yet.

And he has something Delonte never did:  two hands.
That's answering a different question, though, isn't it? You'd keep Rozier because you feel confident that Rozier will improve and, eventually, be better than Delonte was. But the debate going on was about whether or not Rozier is now better than Delonte West was.

And if I have the choice between 2017 Rozier and 2006 Delonte for one game or one season, I would absolutely take Delonte and I don't know what the argument for Rozier would even be.

As I've said, context matters. A lot.

Delonte West was the PG (sometimes SG) for a bad team, with 30+ minutes playing and the freedom to do many things. Rozier is playing for a PO team (in fact, a number 1 seed) limited minutes and he feels he has to do many things in so little time, which is not good for his game, very quick and sometimes reckless. Hopefully, he'll keep improving but the tools are there: extremely high athleticism, vertical jump, instinct and outside scoring. He also has the problem of playing a lot of minutes with Smart, which doesn't attract defenses to free him.

I feel Rozier's impact on the game is higher than Delonte and it will be even better as the season advances. Being the 7th-8th man on a 18-3 team (AND one of only three players in all 21 games) means something, at least for me.

BTW, I liked Delonte a lot. After his two first seasons, I thought he could be a good starter with around 17 ppg, 6 rpg and 7 apg for many years. Unfortunately, it wasn't so.

You mean to tell me you think Rozier would shoot a higher percentage while taking more shots, with a higher degree of difficulty due to playing next to worse teammates?
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Darío SpanishFan on November 26, 2017, 05:56:39 PM
Year 2 Delonte was putting up 12/5/4 as a starter, with 49/38/85 splits and played above average defense. He was a legitimate PG/SG combo guard.

Rozier is shooting a career high 38% in Year 3 and can't play the point. He's a better rebounder and more athletic.

I really hope Rozier keeps improving, and it's not like the rest of Delonte's career went according to plan, but if you could trade "right now" Rozer for Year 2/3 Delonte, you do it in a heartbeat.

Nope. Wouldn't swap Rozier for Young Delonte.

Rozier will improve, the game hasn't slowed down for him yet.

And he has something Delonte never did:  two hands.
That's answering a different question, though, isn't it? You'd keep Rozier because you feel confident that Rozier will improve and, eventually, be better than Delonte was. But the debate going on was about whether or not Rozier is now better than Delonte West was.

And if I have the choice between 2017 Rozier and 2006 Delonte for one game or one season, I would absolutely take Delonte and I don't know what the argument for Rozier would even be.

As I've said, context matters. A lot.

Delonte West was the PG (sometimes SG) for a bad team, with 30+ minutes playing and the freedom to do many things. Rozier is playing for a PO team (in fact, a number 1 seed) limited minutes and he feels he has to do many things in so little time, which is not good for his game, very quick and sometimes reckless. Hopefully, he'll keep improving but the tools are there: extremely high athleticism, vertical jump, instinct and outside scoring. He also has the problem of playing a lot of minutes with Smart, which doesn't attract defenses to free him.

I feel Rozier's impact on the game is higher than Delonte and it will be even better as the season advances. Being the 7th-8th man on a 18-3 team (AND one of only three players in all 21 games) means something, at least for me.

BTW, I liked Delonte a lot. After his two first seasons, I thought he could be a good starter with around 17 ppg, 6 rpg and 7 apg for many years. Unfortunately, it wasn't so.

You mean to tell me you think Rozier would shoot a higher percentage while taking more shots, with a higher degree of difficulty due to playing next to worse teammates?

We can't know that. Maybe not, or maybe he would benefit of playing without pressure and being kept on the court for longer stints.

What I firmly believe is that he would average about 18/8/6 if he played 30 minutes per game in a bad team.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: byennie on November 26, 2017, 06:09:29 PM
We can't know that. Maybe not, or maybe he would benefit of playing without pressure and being kept on the court for longer stints.

What I firmly believe is that he would average about 18/8/6 if he played 30 minutes per game in a bad team.

His per-30 right now is about 12/6/3 on 38% shooting. I find it extremely unlikely that a guy goes from 12/6/3 to 18/8/6 by playing more against starters. There's very little chance he suddenly starts dishing out 6 assist every night, or scores 50% more points per minute when he's never shot 40% at the current pace. You even have his rebounds jacked up like he can turn it on and grab 30% more of those.

Hey, it's *possible*, but you're basically saying he'd immediately become a much different player just by being on a bad team, and it doesn't usually work that way.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Roy H. on November 26, 2017, 06:24:20 PM
We can't know that. Maybe not, or maybe he would benefit of playing without pressure and being kept on the court for longer stints.

What I firmly believe is that he would average about 18/8/6 if he played 30 minutes per game in a bad team.

His per-30 right now is about 12/6/3 on 38% shooting. I find it extremely unlikely that a guy goes from 12/6/3 to 18/8/6 by playing more against starters. There's very little chance he suddenly starts dishing out 6 assist every night, or scores 50% more points per minute when he's never shot 40% at the current pace. You even have his rebounds jacked up like he can turn it on and grab 30% more of those.

Hey, it's *possible*, but you're basically saying he'd immediately become a much different player just by being on a bad team, and it doesn't usually work that way.

Yeah, 18/8/6 is borderline all-star territory. It’s an odd projection to assume he’d be averaging his season high in rebounds, his season high in assists, and more points than he’s scored in all but one game this season.

He’s now in his third season and he hasn’t had a single game with more than 6 assists, and only once in his career has he grabbed more than 8 rebounds or had more than 18 points.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: byennie on November 26, 2017, 06:40:53 PM
Yeah, 18/8/6 is borderline all-star territory. It’s an odd projection to assume he’d be averaging his season high in rebounds, his season high in assists, and more points than he’s scored in all but one game this season.

He’s now in his third season and he hasn’t had a single game with more than 6 assists, and only once in his career has he grabbed more than 8 rebounds or had more than 18 points.

Pretty much. Don't get me wrong, it's cool to be bullish on Rozier. I really hope his recent couple of games indicate that he could be more like a 45/35/80 guy, and play good defense. That would be fantastic.

But, *if* he did that, it's more like 15/6/3, and that's after making a big leap.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Big333223 on November 26, 2017, 06:47:08 PM
We can't know that. Maybe not, or maybe he would benefit of playing without pressure and being kept on the court for longer stints.

What I firmly believe is that he would average about 18/8/6 if he played 30 minutes per game in a bad team.

His per-30 right now is about 12/6/3 on 38% shooting. I find it extremely unlikely that a guy goes from 12/6/3 to 18/8/6 by playing more against starters. There's very little chance he suddenly starts dishing out 6 assist every night, or scores 50% more points per minute when he's never shot 40% at the current pace. You even have his rebounds jacked up like he can turn it on and grab 30% more of those.

Hey, it's *possible*, but you're basically saying he'd immediately become a much different player just by being on a bad team, and it doesn't usually work that way.

Yeah, 18/8/6 is borderline all-star territory. It’s an odd projection to assume he’d be averaging his season high in rebounds, his season high in assists, and more points than he’s scored in all but one game this season.

He’s now in his third season and he hasn’t had a single game with more than 6 assists, and only once in his career has he grabbed more than 8 rebounds or had more than 18 points.
I'll just add to this by pointing out that Delonte averaged about 12/3.5/3 in more than 33 minutes a game as the full time starting SG for the 66-win Cavaliers in '09 (while shooting 46/40/83). So the argument that Delonte's numbers were inflating because he was playing on a bad team don't really hold up. We saw what he could do given an opportunity to play a role on a good team.

His problems were not his ability to play basketball, sadly.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: indeedproceed on November 26, 2017, 11:02:30 PM
Ultimately if you’re a T-Ro fan you believe in the future but enjoy the present, even the misses. Cuz you believe that the overall contribution is more than the box score
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Darío SpanishFan on November 27, 2017, 08:04:53 AM
Ultimately if you’re a T-Ro fan you believe in the future but enjoy the present, even the misses. Cuz you believe that the overall contribution is more than the box score

This. TP
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: timpiker on November 27, 2017, 10:06:38 AM
I like him a lot. 
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: mobilija on November 27, 2017, 07:43:58 PM
Ultimately if you’re a T-Ro fan you believe in the future but enjoy the present, even the misses. Cuz you believe that the overall contribution is more than the box score

Indeed, indeed! TP
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: joepatsfan on November 27, 2017, 09:02:04 PM
Terry Rozier is the man
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: eja117 on December 18, 2017, 09:45:49 PM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/bAJatjKwrpxn2/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on December 18, 2017, 09:47:41 PM
One fan called in .

From a far away galaxy.  ;D
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Ilikesports17 on December 18, 2017, 09:48:46 PM
Still think he's pretty bad
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: eja117 on December 18, 2017, 09:56:22 PM
Still think he's pretty bad
(https://media.giphy.com/media/LCfKob7p2rOwg/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Chris22 on December 18, 2017, 10:11:25 PM
Watched it on NBA TV. I love Quinn Buckner yelling, "Oh No! Oh No! Oh no.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Roy H. on December 18, 2017, 10:14:28 PM
Still think he's pretty bad

Yeah. Huge steal, but that was proceeded by a lousy looping pass that turned into a turnover. 
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Chris22 on December 18, 2017, 10:21:00 PM
Terry is a good player, and he played even better during the playoffs.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: tstorey_97 on December 18, 2017, 10:35:20 PM
7th or 8th  guy on a top 5 NBA team? I think he performs like one.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: tenn_smoothie on December 18, 2017, 10:44:03 PM
I love Rozier .................. and he has improved every year. Remember when he couldn't shoot during his rookie season ?
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: tenn_smoothie on December 18, 2017, 10:53:45 PM
Isn't his shot selection and turnover rate a product of Stevens' lack of toughness with his players ? Speaking of improving, that is one area I believe Coach Brad to be weak in. He lets his guards jack up bad shots waaaaaayyy too often. I get a little tired sometimes with the whole composure thing - sometimes you gotta be tough and demanding to make your players execute what is needed to win. Could Stevens' chew on Irving to reign in the bad shot selection, over dribbling and lack of ball movement that we see at times ?

Is he just a little afraid of NBA players ?
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: green_bballers13 on December 18, 2017, 11:00:14 PM
If so, what do you see in this kid?

If you need rebounds out of your backup PG, I guess he’s okay. Otherwise, he’s got to be one of the worst rotation players in the NBA.

Nope!

Big time win baby!
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on December 18, 2017, 11:27:58 PM
Rozier is one of those dudes that can't make the adjustment from being 'the man' to a role player in the big leagues.  Makes him entertaining as heck to watch imo, but probably doesn't bode well for his future.

Didn't catch his heroics tonight outside of the highlight, but I think it fits well with this perspective. 
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: tenn_smoothie on December 18, 2017, 11:29:32 PM
Ask yourself this question -

Where would you place Rozier in these teams' rotations ......

Spurs
Warriors
Rockets
Cavs
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: green_bballers13 on December 18, 2017, 11:29:45 PM
Rozier is one of those dudes that can't make the adjustment from being 'the man' to a role player in the big leagues.  Makes him entertaining as heck to watch imo, but probably doesn't bode well for his future.

Didn't catch his heroics tonight outside of the highlight, but I think it fits well with this perspective.

He's 23. I'm going to be open minded with him.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on December 18, 2017, 11:33:54 PM
Rozier is one of those dudes that can't make the adjustment from being 'the man' to a role player in the big leagues.  Makes him entertaining as heck to watch imo, but probably doesn't bode well for his future.

Didn't catch his heroics tonight outside of the highlight, but I think it fits well with this perspective.

He's 23. I'm going to be open minded with him.

Does your intuition tell you otherwise? He's similar to the many others before him that had the irrational confidence gene.  He hasn't adapted well to his role player status in the NBA, but he surprises you with big time plays from time to time.  My other hot take has been: "Rozier's most endearing quality is his ability to hit ill-advised shots." 

And yes, he also happens to be 23 years old.  Doesn't make any of the above less true.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: green_bballers13 on December 19, 2017, 12:05:54 AM
Rozier is one of those dudes that can't make the adjustment from being 'the man' to a role player in the big leagues.  Makes him entertaining as heck to watch imo, but probably doesn't bode well for his future.

Didn't catch his heroics tonight outside of the highlight, but I think it fits well with this perspective.

He's 23. I'm going to be open minded with him.

Does your intuition tell you otherwise? He's similar to the many others before him that had the irrational confidence gene.  He hasn't adapted well to his role player status in the NBA, but he surprises you with big time plays from time to time.  My other hot take has been: "Rozier's most endearing quality is his ability to hit ill-advised shots." 

And yes, he also happens to be 23 years old.  Doesn't make any of the above less true.

Why is it irrational confidence? He made a pretty confident game winning play today.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: crimson_stallion on December 19, 2017, 01:17:08 AM
Rozier is one of those dudes that can't make the adjustment from being 'the man' to a role player in the big leagues.  Makes him entertaining as heck to watch imo, but probably doesn't bode well for his future.

Didn't catch his heroics tonight outside of the highlight, but I think it fits well with this perspective.

He's 23. I'm going to be open minded with him.

Does your intuition tell you otherwise? He's similar to the many others before him that had the irrational confidence gene.  He hasn't adapted well to his role player status in the NBA, but he surprises you with big time plays from time to time.  My other hot take has been: "Rozier's most endearing quality is his ability to hit ill-advised shots." 

And yes, he also happens to be 23 years old.  Doesn't make any of the above less true.

I don't get the criticisms. 

Every win related advanced metric that I've seen indicates that Terry Rozier has a positive impact on this team's ability to win games on BOTH ends of the court:

* Defensive RPM: +0.36
* Offensive RPM: +0.84
* Overall RPM: +1.20 (15th among PG)
* Off Rating: 106
* Def Rating: 102
* Net Rating: +4
* Box Plus Minus: +0.7
* VORP: +0.5
* WS: +1.8
* WS/48: 0.116

There are very few NBA PG's who measure this well in advanced metrics at the age of 23 - especially for somebody who's had such a limited role since entering the league.

As for the criticisms that he hasn't adjusted well to being a role player - on what basis?  Is he wreckless with the ball?  Does he play too much hero ball?  Does he commit stupid fouls? 

The answer to all of the above is not really, no. 

His turnover rate is historically low for a PG (Rozier spends 75% of his minutes at PG) and primary ball handler.  So far this year, in 30 games, he has committed only 4 turnovers as a result of bad passes and only 9 as a result of lost balls.  That's 13 turnovers from bad passes and loose handles combined, not even one every second game.  So it's clear he doesn't play out of control or beyond his ability. 

Personal fouls?  Only 2.1 Per 36 minutes.  That indicates that he's really quite disciplined not only on offense, but also on defence - and that's despite the fact that he is very active (and even quite aggressive) on defence.

Too much hero ball?  If there was any criticism you could make for Rozier this would be it, and I'm not denying that his 38% FG percentage could use some improvement.  But biggest reason for that is not due to poor shot selection.  Rozier is shooting 53% from 10-16 feet, a somewhat respectable 37% from outside 16 feet, and 36% from three.  His jumper has actually been pretty darn good. 

His poor FG% is largely the result of his struggles finishing around the basket - he's shooting only 42% inside 3 feet.  So ironically the shots he's struggling most with are not the difficult ones, but the easy ones.

Rozier is only 23 years old, and prior to this season he had averaged 13.9 MPG over a total of 113 games for his entire NBA career.  He's been given very few opportunities to play meaningful minutes up until this season, so if the only major weakness in his game is his ability to finish at the basket - I'm not especially concerned about that.  How long did it take Avery Bradley to become a half capable finisher around the basket?  And yet last season he shot over 60% inside 3 feet.

What I'm more conscious of is the fact that this is practically his second year (given he pretty much didn't play his rookie year) and already he's out there proving that he can make a positive impact on the win column on both ends of the court. 

Already he's showing flashes of a quality jumpshot, and flashes of being able to carry the team in short bursts offensively. 

Already he's showing an ability to impact the game with his length, athleticism and anticipation on the defensive end of the court.

Already he's proving, at 6'2", to be one of the best rebounding guards in the league.   

Already he's proving, as a 23 year old with very little NBA experience, that he is a big time clutch performer who lives for the big moments.

There aren't many young point guards in the NBA who have shown all of those things as early in their career (experience wise) as Rozier is.  Avery Bradley was a huge impact player for this team for years, and yet Rozier has more upside/potential then Bradley in every just about every area of the game (bar defence - maybe).

Lets give this kid a chance.  He has fire in his heart and ice in his veins - he already shows huge promise in so many areas that cannot be taught (clutch play, defensive instincts, toughness, rebounding instincts, hustle, desire to win, athleticism, length, body control).  All he needs is experience - with the right opportunities and under the right teacher (which he has in Stevens) this kid could become a special player.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: rondofan1255 on December 19, 2017, 01:37:32 AM
Rozier is one of those dudes that can't make the adjustment from being 'the man' to a role player in the big leagues.  Makes him entertaining as heck to watch imo, but probably doesn't bode well for his future.

Didn't catch his heroics tonight outside of the highlight, but I think it fits well with this perspective.

He was a role player at Louisville his freshman year, playing behind Chris Jones and Russ Smith. Wasn't on any mock drafts until Summer 2014 when he broke out.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: crimson_stallion on December 19, 2017, 01:46:45 AM
Rozier is one of those dudes that can't make the adjustment from being 'the man' to a role player in the big leagues.  Makes him entertaining as heck to watch imo, but probably doesn't bode well for his future.

Didn't catch his heroics tonight outside of the highlight, but I think it fits well with this perspective.

He was a role player at Louisville his freshman year, playing behind Chris Jones and Russ Smith. Wasn't on any mock drafts until Summer 2014 when he broke out.

Exactly - kid has pretty much lived in the shadows his entire career.

So many people have Rozier misunderstood in such a massive way.  He was never marketed a an some big time offensive stud.  Like Smart, Rozier was best known for his defence and his intangibles (toughness, motor, work ethic, leadership).  He became the offensive focal point of his Louisville team pretty much by default, because there was pretty much nobody else on the team who was really all that gifted, offensively.  He essentially had to learn on the fly how to run an offense, and how to carry an offense.

People seem to think he's an Allen Iverson type - some hotshot kid who was all about jacking shots.  That wasn't really Rozier's thing.  He just got forced into that role because SOMEBODY on that team had to score.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on December 19, 2017, 01:55:50 AM
Rozier is one of those dudes that can't make the adjustment from being 'the man' to a role player in the big leagues.  Makes him entertaining as heck to watch imo, but probably doesn't bode well for his future.

Didn't catch his heroics tonight outside of the highlight, but I think it fits well with this perspective.

He was a role player at Louisville his freshman year, playing behind Chris Jones and Russ Smith. Wasn't on any mock drafts until Summer 2014 when he broke out.

And had an amazing sophomore season at PG.  He won the Wooden Award. 

crimson, he took care of the ball and had poor shot selection in college, too.  I'm not saying he sucks, -- I'm a fan.  But I think he approaches the game with an alpha mindset that has the potential to limit his growth.  Developing the skills and bball IQ to be a solid role player would probably benefit both him and the Celtics.

edit: It'd take a lot of alcohol to compare him to Iverson.  His value at the time of the draft was well-documented.  You're basically making the argument for me -- that he's a role player -- right?  And could be a very good one.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: eja117 on December 19, 2017, 07:18:45 AM
Can we admit that if Smart had that night people would be talking about how Smart makes winning plays and we need to give him a ton of money for a long time?
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Darío SpanishFan on December 19, 2017, 09:48:04 AM
Good morning, Rozier fans  8)
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on December 19, 2017, 10:05:27 AM
I listened to the Pacers broadcast of the game last night, and they said that CBS has said that Rozier is a starting quality guard in our league. Does anyone have a source on that?
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Chris22 on December 19, 2017, 10:43:03 AM
I listened to the Pacers broadcast of the game last night, and they said that CBS has said that Rozier is a starting quality guard in our league. Does anyone have a source on that?

I heard that too, but Celtic fans would complain if you gave out ten dollar bills at the game.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: green_bballers13 on December 19, 2017, 10:54:16 AM
Rozier is one of those dudes that can't make the adjustment from being 'the man' to a role player in the big leagues.  Makes him entertaining as heck to watch imo, but probably doesn't bode well for his future.

Didn't catch his heroics tonight outside of the highlight, but I think it fits well with this perspective.

He was a role player at Louisville his freshman year, playing behind Chris Jones and Russ Smith. Wasn't on any mock drafts until Summer 2014 when he broke out.

And had an amazing sophomore season at PG.  He won the Wooden Award. 

crimson, he took care of the ball and had poor shot selection in college, too.  I'm not saying he sucks, -- I'm a fan.  But I think he approaches the game with an alpha mindset that has the potential to limit his growth.  Developing the skills and bball IQ to be a solid role player would probably benefit both him and the Celtics.

edit: It'd take a lot of alcohol to compare him to Iverson.  His value at the time of the draft was well-documented.  You're basically making the argument for me -- that he's a role player -- right?  And could be a very good one.

Which Wooden award did he win? When I looked it up, I saw that he was a late season top 20 Wooden award list guy.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: rondofan1255 on December 19, 2017, 02:37:07 PM
Rozier is one of those dudes that can't make the adjustment from being 'the man' to a role player in the big leagues.  Makes him entertaining as heck to watch imo, but probably doesn't bode well for his future.

Didn't catch his heroics tonight outside of the highlight, but I think it fits well with this perspective.

He was a role player at Louisville his freshman year, playing behind Chris Jones and Russ Smith. Wasn't on any mock drafts until Summer 2014 when he broke out.

And had an amazing sophomore season at PG.  He won the Wooden Award. 

crimson, he took care of the ball and had poor shot selection in college, too.

He didn't win anything. Plus, that 14-15 Louisville team was painfully awful on offense. That was my least favorite team since the late 90's. Rozier and Montrezl had to take bad contested shots with the team's horrible shooting and the teams focused on both of them. The only reason they made the EE despite their awful shooting (aside from an extremely favorable draw) was because they had two NBA level talents. Nearly all teams to have made a deep tourney run with that terrible shooting have had to overcome it with multiple NBA talents. It was hardly an amazing season aside from his volume scoring. Also, I haven't seen the "irrational confidence" you speak of. I recall him losing confidence and passing up open shots when his shot was off. It would affect his defense too.

He's a cheap bench player and on his rookie salary I have no problems with him. Also, Pitino played two PGs, and Chris Jones was the other PG during 2014-15 for most of the year before getting dismissed.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: indeedproceed on December 19, 2017, 02:51:15 PM
I listened to the Pacers broadcast of the game last night, and they said that CBS has said that Rozier is a starting quality guard in our league. Does anyone have a source on that?

I heard that too, but Celtic fans would complain if you gave out ten dollar bills at the game.

lol. Nice.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: tonydelk on December 19, 2017, 03:04:19 PM
Rozier is one of those dudes that can't make the adjustment from being 'the man' to a role player in the big leagues.  Makes him entertaining as heck to watch imo, but probably doesn't bode well for his future.

Didn't catch his heroics tonight outside of the highlight, but I think it fits well with this perspective.

He's 23. I'm going to be open minded with him.

Does your intuition tell you otherwise? He's similar to the many others before him that had the irrational confidence gene.  He hasn't adapted well to his role player status in the NBA, but he surprises you with big time plays from time to time.  My other hot take has been: "Rozier's most endearing quality is his ability to hit ill-advised shots." 

And yes, he also happens to be 23 years old.  Doesn't make any of the above less true.

I don't get the criticisms. 

Every win related advanced metric that I've seen indicates that Terry Rozier has a positive impact on this team's ability to win games on BOTH ends of the court:

* Defensive RPM: +0.36
* Offensive RPM: +0.84
* Overall RPM: +1.20 (15th among PG)
* Off Rating: 106
* Def Rating: 102
* Net Rating: +4
* Box Plus Minus: +0.7
* VORP: +0.5
* WS: +1.8
* WS/48: 0.116

There are very few NBA PG's who measure this well in advanced metrics at the age of 23 - especially for somebody who's had such a limited role since entering the league.

As for the criticisms that he hasn't adjusted well to being a role player - on what basis?  Is he wreckless with the ball?  Does he play too much hero ball?  Does he commit stupid fouls? 

The answer to all of the above is not really, no. 

His turnover rate is historically low for a PG (Rozier spends 75% of his minutes at PG) and primary ball handler.  So far this year, in 30 games, he has committed only 4 turnovers as a result of bad passes and only 9 as a result of lost balls.  That's 13 turnovers from bad passes and loose handles combined, not even one every second game.  So it's clear he doesn't play out of control or beyond his ability. 

Personal fouls?  Only 2.1 Per 36 minutes.  That indicates that he's really quite disciplined not only on offense, but also on defence - and that's despite the fact that he is very active (and even quite aggressive) on defence.

Too much hero ball?  If there was any criticism you could make for Rozier this would be it, and I'm not denying that his 38% FG percentage could use some improvement.  But biggest reason for that is not due to poor shot selection.  Rozier is shooting 53% from 10-16 feet, a somewhat respectable 37% from outside 16 feet, and 36% from three.  His jumper has actually been pretty darn good. 

His poor FG% is largely the result of his struggles finishing around the basket - he's shooting only 42% inside 3 feet.  So ironically the shots he's struggling most with are not the difficult ones, but the easy ones.

Rozier is only 23 years old, and prior to this season he had averaged 13.9 MPG over a total of 113 games for his entire NBA career.  He's been given very few opportunities to play meaningful minutes up until this season, so if the only major weakness in his game is his ability to finish at the basket - I'm not especially concerned about that.  How long did it take Avery Bradley to become a half capable finisher around the basket?  And yet last season he shot over 60% inside 3 feet.

What I'm more conscious of is the fact that this is practically his second year (given he pretty much didn't play his rookie year) and already he's out there proving that he can make a positive impact on the win column on both ends of the court. 

Already he's showing flashes of a quality jumpshot, and flashes of being able to carry the team in short bursts offensively. 

Already he's showing an ability to impact the game with his length, athleticism and anticipation on the defensive end of the court.

Already he's proving, at 6'2", to be one of the best rebounding guards in the league.   

Already he's proving, as a 23 year old with very little NBA experience, that he is a big time clutch performer who lives for the big moments.

There aren't many young point guards in the NBA who have shown all of those things as early in their career (experience wise) as Rozier is.  Avery Bradley was a huge impact player for this team for years, and yet Rozier has more upside/potential then Bradley in every just about every area of the game (bar defence - maybe).

Lets give this kid a chance.  He has fire in his heart and ice in his veins - he already shows huge promise in so many areas that cannot be taught (clutch play, defensive instincts, toughness, rebounding instincts, hustle, desire to win, athleticism, length, body control).  All he needs is experience - with the right opportunities and under the right teacher (which he has in Stevens) this kid could become a special player.

Rozier will be the reason the C's let Smart go if he gets overpaid.  Those minutes will go to Rozier.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Phantom255x on January 03, 2018, 10:05:56 PM
Nope. Trade That Bum!

 :laugh:
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: wayupnorth on January 03, 2018, 10:28:15 PM
T Rozzay is legit.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Big333223 on January 04, 2018, 07:39:39 AM
His finishing is still really inconsistent but his 3P shooting is up to 38% on the year. If he can continue to do that and bring that hounding, on-ball defense and hustle he's been showing, I might start to forget about Avery Bradley.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: jdz101 on January 06, 2018, 01:41:02 AM
Bumping for the overt stupidity.

Past 6 games looking like serious breakout potential.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Ilikesports17 on January 06, 2018, 01:48:53 AM
Still very very skeptical that this is the new norm for Terry.

Hopefully it is.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Erik on January 06, 2018, 05:15:05 AM
I don't know what people expect from the 16th pick. He's shown improvement every year (both visually and statistically), is a major piece of a championship contender (6th most minutes, 4th in advanced analytics), and could be the starting PG on a good amount of NBA teams in just his third year. Is he John Wall? No, but it doesn't mean that he sucks.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Androslav on January 06, 2018, 05:34:12 AM
I don't know what people expect from the 16th pick. He's shown improvement every year (both visually and statistically), is a major piece of a championship contender (6th most minutes, 4th in advanced analytics), and could be the starting PG on a good amount of NBA teams in just his third year. Is he John Wall? No, but it doesn't mean that he sucks.
TP Eric "The voice of reason"
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Darío SpanishFan on January 06, 2018, 05:34:24 AM
Now he's over 40% in FGs. He keeps improving in his decision making, as a 23-year-old player should.

TP Erik, it's all about being patient and not burying players in his first seasons (even when they play reasonably well, which is hilarious).
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Androslav on January 06, 2018, 05:38:13 AM
Now he's over 40% in FGs. He keeps improving in his decision making, as a 23-year-old player should.

TP Erik, it's all about being patient and not burying players in his first seasons (even when they play reasonably well, which is hilarious).
Gary Payton would be trashed like crazy.
Imagine if we drafted him and in his first 2 years he averaged 8 PPG.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paytoga01.html

Not saying TRoz will be a HOF type, but as Dario and G'N'R said - Patience
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Celtics4ever on January 06, 2018, 07:36:32 AM
Quote
it's all about being patient and not burying players in his first seasons (even when they play reasonably well, which is hilarious).

This blog has also supported guys who were obvious duds well beyond the time when it was known to the world.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: kgfor3 on January 06, 2018, 07:37:30 AM
Otherwise, he’s got to be one of the worst rotation players in the NBA.

Tbh, this is a horrible take. Rozier is a starting pg on a lot of teams.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: dreamgreen on January 06, 2018, 08:11:14 AM
Fortunately both he and Smart have been playing better as of late. Good time to trade them both! Rozier has become a more competent offensive player he still can't pass or should I say doesn't pass? But if he can calm down and be a solid bench scorer I can live with that.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: hodgy03038 on January 06, 2018, 08:23:20 AM
He is showing serious potential. Every game he seems more and more confident. We need this aggressiveness on the 2nd team. The 2nd unit is growing into something special with Rozier, Smart & Theis.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on January 06, 2018, 08:26:29 AM
Playing great .....for now

20 games from now review this thought
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: crimson_stallion on January 06, 2018, 08:51:49 AM
I don't know what people expect from the 16th pick. He's shown improvement every year (both visually and statistically), is a major piece of a championship contender (6th most minutes, 4th in advanced analytics), and could be the starting PG on a good amount of NBA teams in just his third year. Is he John Wall? No, but it doesn't mean that he sucks.

Tommy Point for you - glad to see people actually looking at Rozier's play in context.

You're looking at a kid who practically did not play during his rookie year (due to him being buried behind a backcourt that was already 4 deep (IT4, Smart, Turner and Bradley) - and even in his second year his minutes were sporadic and role was never clearly carved out. 

Rozier's a kid who has always played better the more minutes / opportunity he's gotten, and his shown consistent steady improvements every season.  There's never been any reason to believe he couldn't take a leap if given the opportunity - he's just never had that opportunity until now. 

If we didn't trade out Bradley and Crowder, he'd probably still be buried deep on the bench looking like he did last year.  Hell even if the Hayward injury never happened, we'd probably see Smart / Tatum getting all of those perimeter minutes off the bench and Rozier wasting away. 

He's a talented kid who has always had the ability, just needed the opportunity - the trading of Crowder and AB, along with the injury to Hayward (unfortunate as it was) has give Rozier the opportunity to step up into a more consistent role with more consistent playing time, and he has taken a huge step forward in development as a result.

Look at the Danny's decisions so far - trading for Thomas, trading for Kyrie, drafting Brown, trading down for Tatum, the Brooklyn trade.  I think it's safe to say by now that Danny Ainge is nothing short of a basketball genius - and a basketball genius who's proven that he's never afraid of making moves.  And yet he's downright REFUSED to consider including Terry Rozier in any trades so far - that's got to tell you something about what he sees in this kid. 
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Csfan1984 on January 06, 2018, 08:54:45 AM
Fortunately both he and Smart have been playing better as of late. Good time to trade them both! Rozier has become a more competent offensive player he still can't pass or should I say doesn't pass? But if he can calm down and be a solid bench scorer I can live with that.
I don't want it to seem like a knock but one should be moved at trade deadline if a good deal is available.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: crimson_stallion on January 06, 2018, 09:02:21 AM
He is showing serious potential. Every game he seems more and more confident. We need this aggressiveness on the 2nd team. The 2nd unit is growing into something special with Rozier, Smart & Theis.

What Rozier is starting to show out there as Kyrie's backup reminds me a LOT of the Clippers / Bledsoe scenario. 

Bledsoe was showing flashes if great potential, and the Clippers were giving him all the minutes they could - but with CP3 starting there were always limits to the type of minutes and role he'd be able to get there.  His final year in LA he was only playing 20 MPG, and he was only averaging 8.5 / 3.0 / 3.1 in those minutes. 

The Clippers saw he deserved more opportunity, and traded him to Phoenix - and the increased role/minutes led to his production instantly jumping up to 17.7 / 4.7 / 5.5

Bledsoe has averaged 18 PPG since that time, and while he's never been an All-Star he's generally always been considered a very good two-way guard.  He's also been limited by injury, and if he had stayed healthy who knows how much better he could have been.

Rozier reminds me of Bledsoe in so many ways.  Physically he is a similar height, has similar strength and similarly explosive athleticism.  He's got the same scrappy competitiveness and toughness.  Like Bledsoe he plays hard on both ends of the court.  If he finishes out this season strong (even 80% of the way he's played the past 6 games) I could very easily see him going the same route as Bledsoe - with Danny being forced to either give him an increased role (probably not possible on this roister), trade him to a team with more opportunity, or risk losing him for nothing in free agency.   

In fact Bledoe's overall Per-36 PRA (Points + Rebounds + Assists) production (14.9 Pts, 5.2 Reb, 5.4 Ast, 25.5 PRA) is not too dissimilar from what Rozier is averaing Per-36 this season (14.8 Pts, 7.0 Reb, 3.2 Ast, 25.0 PRA).

If Rozier ever becomes even 80% of the player Bledsoe has been the past 4-5 seasons, then he'll prove to be an incredible steal at #16.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Ilikesports17 on January 07, 2018, 02:36:22 AM
Otherwise, he’s got to be one of the worst rotation players in the NBA.

Tbh, this is a horrible take. Rozier is a starting pg on a lot of teams.
TBH this is a horrible take.

Rozier is not a starting point guard on any team that wants to win a consequential number of games.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: tenn_smoothie on January 07, 2018, 03:14:44 AM
Fortunately both he and Smart have been playing better as of late. Good time to trade them both! Rozier has become a more competent offensive player he still can't pass or should I say doesn't pass? But if he can calm down and be a solid bench scorer I can live with that.
I don't want it to seem like a knock but one should be moved at trade deadline if a good deal is available.

Why do we want to trade our modern Sam & KC, who backed up Cousy, Ramsey & Sharman during the 60's dynasty ? They are looking like key parts of a developing bench that helps teams win titles. Why trade away players filling needed roles just to get some other player to fill another role. This team has been built beautifully. Let them develop and then let's enjoy the eventual results (hopefully #18 and beyond).

Note: Above statement is for role comparison - I don't literally believe that Rozier will be as good as Sam Jones one day, though Smart could be as good as KC.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Celtics4ever on January 07, 2018, 07:44:20 AM
Quote
Why do we want to trade our modern Sam & KC

This is rather insulting to Sam and KC in all honesty


http://www.hoophall.com/hall-of-famers/sam-jones/

http://www.hoophall.com/hall-of-famers/kc-jones/

Do you really think Marcus and Terry are HOFers?
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Darío SpanishFan on January 07, 2018, 07:56:35 AM
Otherwise, he’s got to be one of the worst rotation players in the NBA.

Tbh, this is a horrible take. Rozier is a starting pg on a lot of teams.
TBH this is a horrible take.

Rozier is not a starting point guard on any team that wants to win a consequential number of games.

We can't know this. Time (maybe) will tell.

We positively know Roy's statement is wrong
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Roy H. on January 07, 2018, 09:04:43 AM
Otherwise, he’s got to be one of the worst rotation players in the NBA.

Tbh, this is a horrible take. Rozier is a starting pg on a lot of teams.
TBH this is a horrible take.

Rozier is not a starting point guard on any team that wants to win a consequential number of games.

We can't know this. Time (maybe) will tell.

We positively know Roy's statement is wrong

It wasn’t wrong on November 18. He’s obviously playing much better now. He’s still not close to a starting PG, but he’s been solid recently.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Snakehead on January 07, 2018, 09:45:00 AM
I have really been impressed with him over the last few games.  He dribbles the ball with a purpose he never had before, which was my growing frustration with him.  He would get the ball and spend way too long just dribbling side to side usually going nowhere.  Because he is not a passer, he is not that type of guard.  Right now he is dribbling with purpose to attack.  To me, Rozier is really a back up SG more than a PG in that he is more off ball and attacking.  That's not an insult (just means he's sort of undersized but ti works) and actually works really well with Smart.  And the passing may come with time but as of now it's a long ways off.

I also really like some of the push shot / floaters he has been shooting recently, which I would compare to the type of one handed shots Wade is the master of in the paint.  I have always thought Rozier should work hard at this type of shot because he is so quick he could easily get this shot stopping in space against defenses very often if he was looking for it and confident in it.

The shot here at 1:18.  https://youtu.be/-OBOkeuJrc0?t=1m18s 

And his one made basket last game (not a good one, like some other players)

And plus the dunking.  Yeah a dunk is just 2 points but it shows growing confidence.

This is coming off being frustrated with him for a while, so keep that in mind.  He is no starter.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: footey on January 07, 2018, 11:56:59 AM
Otherwise, he’s got to be one of the worst rotation players in the NBA.

Tbh, this is a horrible take. Rozier is a starting pg on a lot of teams.
TBH this is a horrible take.

Rozier is not a starting point guard on any team that wants to win a consequential number of games.

We can't know this. Time (maybe) will tell.

We positively know Roy's statement is wrong

It wasn’t wrong on November 18. He’s obviously playing much better now. He’s still not close to a starting PG, but he’s been solid recently.

On his good days he is in fact starting caliber point guard. In his bad days you just shake your head.

Here is to hoping that he continues to trend more good days than bad.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Roy H. on January 07, 2018, 12:08:09 PM
Otherwise, he’s got to be one of the worst rotation players in the NBA.

Tbh, this is a horrible take. Rozier is a starting pg on a lot of teams.
TBH this is a horrible take.

Rozier is not a starting point guard on any team that wants to win a consequential number of games.

We can't know this. Time (maybe) will tell.

We positively know Roy's statement is wrong

It wasn’t wrong on November 18. He’s obviously playing much better now. He’s still not close to a starting PG, but he’s been solid recently.

On his good days he is in fact starting caliber point guard. In his bad days you just shake your head.

Here is to hoping that he continues to trend more good days than bad.

Even on his good days he isn’t enough of a distributor to be a starter.  Even if you extrapolated out his best month (December) to 36 minutes per night, he’d be putting up around 13 points and 3 assists.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Snakehead on January 07, 2018, 12:56:12 PM
Terry Rozier's best passing day of his career would make him the worst passing point guard starter in the league still.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Ilikesports17 on January 07, 2018, 05:08:18 PM
Terry Rozier's best passing day of his career would make him the worst passing point guard starter in the league still.
Thank you!

Terry Rozier cannot run an offense.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: green_bballers13 on January 07, 2018, 06:35:41 PM
Otherwise, he’s got to be one of the worst rotation players in the NBA.

Tbh, this is a horrible take. Rozier is a starting pg on a lot of teams.
TBH this is a horrible take.

Rozier is not a starting point guard on any team that wants to win a consequential number of games.

We can't know this. Time (maybe) will tell.

We positively know Roy's statement is wrong

It wasn’t wrong on November 18. He’s obviously playing much better now. He’s still not close to a starting PG, but he’s been solid recently.

On his good days he is in fact starting caliber point guard. In his bad days you just shake your head.

Here is to hoping that he continues to trend more good days than bad.

Even on his good days he isn’t enough of a distributor to be a starter.  Even if you extrapolated out his best month (December) to 36 minutes per night, he’d be putting up around 13 points and 3 assists.

To be fair, we can't extrapolate out his #s to assume much of anything. As a backup player, his role is to come in and provide a spark. We don't know if he would facilitate more/less as a starting PG, or as a starting SG.

I agree that he has been solid of late. He's definitely not Danny's worst draft pick, and its not like we should have expected a top player. I see him being a decent 6-8th man in the NBA
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: rondofan1255 on January 28, 2018, 01:30:30 PM
Terry Rozier's best passing day of his career would make him the worst passing point guard starter in the league still.
Thank you!

Terry Rozier cannot run an offense.

That was my thought last night. Pure chaos.

I wouldn't be shocked if he's gone at the deadline in a package for a Hood or Favors type player.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: indeedproceed on January 28, 2018, 01:40:31 PM
Still here never left
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: nickagneta on January 28, 2018, 01:43:56 PM
Terry Rozier's best passing day of his career would make him the worst passing point guard starter in the league still.
Thank you!

Terry Rozier cannot run an offense.

That was my thought last night. Pure chaos.

I wouldn't be shocked if he's gone at the deadline in a package for a Hood or Favors type player.
Ainge and Stevens love Rozier for being the exact type player that he is, a guy with speed, confidence, athleticism that looks for his own shot and can score from anywhere. He still has a year left on his rookie contract. He isn't going anywhere.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: osterhagen on January 28, 2018, 01:56:26 PM
Let's see what he can do in these two weeks with no Smart.

So far this season he has been very inconsistent with some big time plays.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Ilikesports17 on January 28, 2018, 02:23:06 PM
Terry Rozier's best passing day of his career would make him the worst passing point guard starter in the league still.
Thank you!

Terry Rozier cannot run an offense.

That was my thought last night. Pure chaos.

I wouldn't be shocked if he's gone at the deadline in a package for a Hood or Favors type player.
Terry can be very valuable. He is a great athlete with the balls to take and make big shots. His athleticism allows him to rip down big rebounds and create tough looks out of nowhere. He can pester ballhandlers and play free safety in big moments (Pacers game).

But you cant ask him to do things that dont fit in that very particular skillset. You cant rely on his offense every night. He's too inconsistent. Shoots very bad percentages overall. You can't rely on him to stick to shooters like Korver, Klay and Curry off ball. I know that's a tall task for anyone, but Rozier gets lost more than most and those guys will make you pay time and time again. We've seen it too many times already. Most importantly you cant ask him to run an offense. He simply isnt a point gaurd. Ask him to initiate an offense and you are putting him in a position to fail.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Ilikesports17 on January 28, 2018, 02:30:14 PM
Last 8 games Terry is scoring 7 points a game on 31% fg, 21% 3pt% in 22.3 mpg.

The Celtics are 3-5 in those games.

Turns out the little hot streak was just that, a hot streak. Not Terry turning the corner.

This is a problem because our bench desperately needs 2 weeks ago's Terry Rozier.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: indeedproceed on January 31, 2018, 10:16:23 PM
Terry Rozier's best passing day of his career would make him the worst passing point guard starter in the league still.
Thank you!

Terry Rozier cannot run an offense.

This did not age well.

#neverdoubted
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: ozgod on January 31, 2018, 10:23:49 PM
If only T-Rozay could have this type of intensity and focus every game.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: celticinorlando on January 31, 2018, 10:24:02 PM
I don't get the Rozier hate. He has been 100 times better this season and is only getting better
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Chris22 on February 01, 2018, 12:42:01 AM
It's amazing how well our offense runs when everyone is not standing around waiting for Kyrie to make a move.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: bopna on February 01, 2018, 01:02:20 AM
It's amazing how well our offense runs when everyone is not standing around waiting for Kyrie to make a move.
Whenever that happens..its the coach's fault and not Kyrie.
And sometimes when scoring droughts happen..we need Kyrie to manufactur points.
Now If only T. Ro can find some consistent rhythm and not fall back to his usual pedestrian stat line after a good game, then I believe this team can go on another winning streak..but Rozier has to be consistent.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Jiri Welsch on February 01, 2018, 02:03:55 AM
The thread that never dies
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: spikelovetheCelts on February 01, 2018, 09:36:47 AM
The thread that never dies
Because we love our triple double machine.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Big333223 on February 01, 2018, 09:57:25 AM
Awesome game by Rozier. He continues to grow as a player and his defense could wind up being incredibly important against quicker PG's in the playoffs. Great stuff.

But for a little perspective, the only other player to have a triple-double in his first NBA start is Tony Wroten who is currently... not in the league. Let's remember just how important a single game is.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Atzar on February 01, 2018, 10:54:34 AM
I felt like the 10 assists were more a function of the Celtics playing the right way than they were of some court vision epiphany by Rozier.  They cut and screened themselves open all night... made Rozier's job pretty easy.

Having said that, this was a huge improvement on the one-on-five offense that Rozier normally tries.  We don't need him to be Chris Paul... we just need him to understand that he does, in fact, have teammates.  If he ever displays a consistent ability to run an offense, then he'll have a job in this league for a long time. 
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: indeedproceed on February 01, 2018, 11:30:10 AM
I felt like the 10 assists were more a function of the Celtics playing the right way than they were of some court vision epiphany by Rozier.  They cut and screened themselves open all night... made Rozier's job pretty easy.

Having said that, this was a huge improvement on the one-on-five offense that Rozier normally tries.  We don't need him to be Chris Paul... we just need him to understand that he does, in fact, have teammates.  If he ever displays a consistent ability to run an offense, then he'll have a job in this league for a long time. 


I think you're underselling how much he was looking to pass in the 2nd half. He had a few buckets I was surprised weren't counted as assists. And he never stayed still after passing, so he'd pass/hand off, move, get the ball back, move, pass, move, get the ball back, assist.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: keevsnick on February 01, 2018, 12:37:54 PM
I felt like the 10 assists were more a function of the Celtics playing the right way than they were of some court vision epiphany by Rozier.  They cut and screened themselves open all night... made Rozier's job pretty easy.

Having said that, this was a huge improvement on the one-on-five offense that Rozier normally tries.  We don't need him to be Chris Paul... we just need him to understand that he does, in fact, have teammates.  If he ever displays a consistent ability to run an offense, then he'll have a job in this league for a long time. 


I think you're underselling how much he was looking to pass in the 2nd half. He had a few buckets I was surprised weren't counted as assists. And he never stayed still after passing, so he'd pass/hand off, move, get the ball back, move, pass, move, get the ball back, assist.

I would like to point out he also has a few buckets that were very generous assists. Got some home court cooking in that regard. But regardless that kid played great, it helps that the team played well around him (Jaylen, Tatum, Morris, Horford).
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: incoherent on February 01, 2018, 01:31:52 PM
This thread is a prime example of why the Eye Test can be more important then stats.

The stats tell you that IT is a better offensive player then Kyrie last year.  The eyes test removes any debate.

The stats tell you Rozier is the worst rotational player in the NBA? That never passed the eye test and its pretty clearly wrong.

Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Erik on February 01, 2018, 01:38:05 PM
This thread is a prime example of why the Eye Test can be more important then stats.

The stats tell you that IT is a better offensive player then Kyrie last year.  The eyes test removes any debate.

The stats tell you Rozier is the worst rotational player in the NBA? That never passed the eye test and its pretty clearly wrong.

Not sure which stats OP is looking at to come up with "worst rotational player," but Rozier is #64 in the league in VORP (value over replacement player) and #78 in BPM (box plus minus)... which is pretty [dang] good for a bench player in a 30 team league. It essentially means that Terry could be a starter on a lot of teams, including the Celtics, because he's better than Jaylen Brown in both of those rankings.

Granted, this is an old thread and numbers may have changed... but as far as I remember, the main 7 Celtics players have been crushing advanced analytics all year long.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: triboy16f on February 01, 2018, 02:07:39 PM
Rozier unfortunately will be a gonner in a season or two

Some team is going to give him the keys to start...and throw good money at him. Celtics wont be able to afford

Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: celticinorlando on February 01, 2018, 02:08:57 PM
My guess is he gets the start vs Atlanta also. Think they sit Kyrie until the Toronto game
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Diggles on February 01, 2018, 02:58:59 PM
I love this thread and Rozier....
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: JumpingJudkins on February 01, 2018, 03:41:56 PM
I just hope the Celtics take note of how successful they were moving the ball around (against the admittedly atrocious Knicks defense) and continue to do it even after Kyrie gets back.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: nickagneta on February 01, 2018, 03:45:52 PM
Is it just me or did the ball move its best when there wasn't a PG on the floor? I think it was the Horford-Brown- Nader-Ojeleye and I think Tatum grouping where the ball just seemed to move side to side so well with very little dribbling. Thought a couple of those 5 man groups without a PG really played terrific.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: green_bballers13 on February 01, 2018, 04:05:38 PM
If so, what do you see in this kid?

If you need rebounds out of your backup PG, I guess he’s okay. Otherwise, he’s got to be one of the worst rotation players in the NBA.

Is this opinion still held by anyone?
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Vermont Green on February 01, 2018, 04:09:09 PM
If so, what do you see in this kid?

If you need rebounds out of your backup PG, I guess he’s okay. Otherwise, he’s got to be one of the worst rotation players in the NBA.

Is this opinion still held by anyone?

And anyone left who wants to trade him for J. J. Barea?  Wasn't there a thread on that too?
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Chris22 on February 01, 2018, 04:19:23 PM
My favorite Rozier play was the Walt Frazier type steal of the inbounds pass in the backcourt against the Knicks.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: ItsNotLuck on February 01, 2018, 04:53:27 PM
Quote
Granted, this is an old thread and numbers may have changed... but as far as I remember, the main 7 Celtics players have been crushing advanced analytics all year long.

Kyrie, Al, and Tatum have been pretty elite. But a case could potentially be made that Rozier has been our 4th best player. Per Basketball Reference:

Per 100 possessions
   ortg   drtg
KI   117   104
AH   117   101
JT   115   102
TR   106   101
JB   103   102
MM   104   102
DT   112   98

Theis has a smaller sample size. He has plays less minutes than the others and is most likely being used in specific situations where he excels due to matchups. However, I included him as the 7th because early returns look really good. Plus it's hard to quantify Marcus Smart with stats, so left him off.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Snakehead on February 01, 2018, 04:55:01 PM
He was doing well.  I hope he sticks with the decisive play.  If he can hit open 3's and be aggressive he can really help.  He and Smart both need to play the right way to fit together or sometimes the lack of spacing from both of them was really bogging the team down.  Hopeful it will keep getting better.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Snakehead on February 01, 2018, 04:56:41 PM
Is it just me or did the ball move its best when there wasn't a PG on the floor? I think it was the Horford-Brown- Nader-Ojeleye and I think Tatum grouping where the ball just seemed to move side to side so well with very little dribbling. Thought a couple of those 5 man groups without a PG really played terrific.

I think they had really good ball movement yes, because I think in part there was such a concerted effort to move the ball over how they had played for that stretch.  Morris actually did pretty well at it too, even running PG for a stretch.  He had a couple turnovers in there but overall it was good to see really focusing on ball movement.

In part it's also tied to guys being aggressive and taking shots or attacking when they can.  A few players like Rozier were a lot better than they were in the down stretch.  Tatum was really good in the second half.

Also in part I have to say I thought the Knicks were also really bad.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on February 01, 2018, 05:27:32 PM
Trade him for Evans
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Rosco917 on February 01, 2018, 07:06:49 PM
I need to see more before I get totally aboard the Rozier train. Every time he turns the corner he falls back to earth with a thump.

Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: green_bballers13 on February 02, 2018, 10:01:28 AM
I need to see more before I get totally aboard the Rozier train. Every time he turns the corner he falls back to earth with a thump.

I'm not sure what you mean, but ok.

It is funny that the haters get awfully quiet after a good game or series of good games. This is why I chose not to hate on Celtics players- I don't want to look foolish when the team is doing well.

Call me a homer- I'd rather not have egg on my face or hide when the Celtics play well.

There was a whole lot of negative talk about Kyrie, Terry, and Marcus. Now? crickets.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: indeedproceed on February 02, 2018, 10:07:52 AM
I need to see more before I get totally aboard the Rozier train. Every time he turns the corner he falls back to earth with a thump.



This is true. Previously he's been incredibly streaky.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on February 02, 2018, 10:30:35 AM
Progression each year? Check
Competitive fire? Check
Excellent athlete? Check
Impacts games even if shot is not falling? Check
Elite in one area (rebounding)? Check
Plays with energy that changes the energy of the game? Check
Figuring out his spots on offense? Check

I'm not saying he is a superstar, but there is a lot to like about Terry Rozier. He's an excellent change-of-pace player that can play both sides of the court.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Vermont Green on February 02, 2018, 11:14:21 AM
Trade him for Evans

Another full year of Rozier + restricted FA after that for a 2-month rental of Evans?  Not sure we need to do this.  I am sure that Memphis would jump at it.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Chris22 on February 02, 2018, 11:39:40 AM
Progression each year? Check
Competitive fire? Check
Excellent athlete? Check
Impacts games even if shot is not falling? Check
Elite in one area (rebounding)? Check
Plays with energy that changes the energy of the game? Check
Figuring out his spots on offense? Check

I'm not saying he is a superstar, but there is a lot to like about Terry Rozier. He's an excellent change-of-pace player that can play both sides of the court.

Wins game with a steal and a dunk? Check
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: kozlodoev on February 02, 2018, 11:47:40 AM
Progression each year? Check
Competitive fire? Check
Excellent athlete? Check
Impacts games even if shot is not falling? Check
Elite in one area (rebounding)? Check
Plays with energy that changes the energy of the game? Check
Figuring out his spots on offense? Check

I'm not saying he is a superstar, but there is a lot to like about Terry Rozier. He's an excellent change-of-pace player that can play both sides of the court.
He better be, because his shot is usually not falling. The cases in which he manages to string together a calendar month where he stays on the right side of .400 from the floor are few and far between. And it's not like .400 is world-beater territory, either.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: eja117 on February 02, 2018, 09:07:44 PM
This is the point where someone says Rozier played poorly tonight
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Snakehead on February 02, 2018, 09:08:46 PM
Some things from this couple game stretch I hope he takes forward.  He can get these threes or floaters and different shots off the bench.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Ogaju on February 02, 2018, 09:16:37 PM
He is a starter you have to start him and move Kyrie to the bench. lol
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Phantom255x on February 02, 2018, 09:34:02 PM
Is this a trick question  :P
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: CelticsFanFromNYC on February 02, 2018, 09:53:36 PM
Regardless if its luck, I remember calling Rozier the sleeper and X-Factor before the season started. I wonder if he just put Smart out of a Celtics uniform? And what exactly happens to him if we get another significant guard? Anthony Davis trade on Rozier contract year lol
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Snakehead on February 02, 2018, 09:56:49 PM
I wonder if he just put Smart out of a Celtics uniform?

Why is this a thing?  We need them both, and that's been obvious when they both play and play together all year long... did we forget the rotation after two games?
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: eja117 on February 02, 2018, 09:58:49 PM
I wonder if he just put Smart out of a Celtics uniform?

Why is this a thing?  We need them both, and that's been obvious when they both play and play together all year long... did we forget the rotation after two games?
Maybe the rotation should change. Smart could play the last 5 minutes of games when he does his best and the rest of the time could be Rozier.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Snakehead on February 02, 2018, 10:00:36 PM
I wonder if he just put Smart out of a Celtics uniform?

Why is this a thing?  We need them both, and that's been obvious when they both play and play together all year long... did we forget the rotation after two games?
Maybe the rotation should change. Smart could play the last 5 minutes of games when he does his best and the rest of the time could be Rozier.


I'll play one of the best defenders in the league for his proper minutes and Rozier for his as well.  There was a reason we were seeing Nader and the like tonight.

 They play together... again do we remember rotations from before a couple games ago?
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: MJohnnyboy on February 02, 2018, 10:00:51 PM
I hope Terry can continue to build off tonight. He's taken a huge step this year, but the next step for him is finding consistency.

There have been times where he's been the best player on the floor. There have also been times where he looks like he shouldn't be in the NBA. Hopefully tonight really is a turn for the better.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: eja117 on February 02, 2018, 10:09:28 PM
I wonder if he just put Smart out of a Celtics uniform?

Why is this a thing?  We need them both, and that's been obvious when they both play and play together all year long... did we forget the rotation after two games?
Maybe the rotation should change. Smart could play the last 5 minutes of games when he does his best and the rest of the time could be Rozier.


I'll play one of the best defenders in the league for his proper minutes and Rozier for his as well.  There was a reason we were seeing Nader and the like tonight.

 They play together... again do we remember rotations from before a couple games ago?
Maybe 120 points is specifically because Smart wasn't around to clang a ton of shots and slow things down.   I hear Kadeem is a good defender.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: azzenfrost on February 02, 2018, 10:11:15 PM
I guess this is why DA is always high on him.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: lrybrd on February 02, 2018, 10:14:06 PM
Totally agree about the team’s offensive upswing since Smart went out.  Offense looks so much more crisper and a lot less forced shots at the end of the clock.  Not to mention a lot less of Smart’s bonehead turnovers.  Starting to think that Smart is nothing more than another player who thrives in CBS’ system but will struggle elsewhere (I.e., Turner, Crowder, IT and Bradley)
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: KGs Knee on February 02, 2018, 10:18:52 PM
Good for Terry, I hope he keeps it up.

Of course, he'll be pricing himself out of a new contract with the C's if he does.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: CelticsFanFromNYC on February 02, 2018, 10:19:31 PM
I wonder if he just put Smart out of a Celtics uniform?

Why is this a thing?  We need them both, and that's been obvious when they both play and play together all year long... did we forget the rotation after two games?

Smart hasn't capitalized much when given extended minuted and responsibilities. When Rozier is moving the ball like this, Smart's value to the team becomes very limited imo. 3rd string ball handling and you  dont want him spotting up. Hayward will eventually control the ball. I see no relevant reason to pay Smart  even though Rozier can easily take take Reggie Jackson route himself. Smart's defense is game changing, but not franchise changing
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Snakehead on February 02, 2018, 10:38:29 PM
I wonder if he just put Smart out of a Celtics uniform?

Why is this a thing?  We need them both, and that's been obvious when they both play and play together all year long... did we forget the rotation after two games?

Smart hasn't capitalized much when given extended minuted and responsibilities. When Rozier is moving the ball like this, Smart's value to the team becomes very limited imo. 3rd string ball handling and you  dont want him spotting up. Hayward will eventually control the ball. I see no relevant reason to pay Smart  even though Rozier can easily take take Reggie Jackson route himself. Smart's defense is game changing, but not franchise changing


So you want to play Nader 27 minutes or so instead of Smart?  That's what happened tonight, plus 8 minutes of Allen.  It's not really hard to figure out.

Rozier can play this kind of way with or without him if he is this aggressive and decisive.  This is not going to be either or and also we won't be playing the Knicks and Hawks all season.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: eja117 on February 02, 2018, 10:42:51 PM
I wonder if he just put Smart out of a Celtics uniform?

Why is this a thing?  We need them both, and that's been obvious when they both play and play together all year long... did we forget the rotation after two games?

Smart hasn't capitalized much when given extended minuted and responsibilities. When Rozier is moving the ball like this, Smart's value to the team becomes very limited imo. 3rd string ball handling and you  dont want him spotting up. Hayward will eventually control the ball. I see no relevant reason to pay Smart  even though Rozier can easily take take Reggie Jackson route himself. Smart's defense is game changing, but not franchise changing


So you want to play Nader 27 minutes or so instead of Smart?  That's what happened tonight, plus 8 minutes of Allen.  It's not really hard to figure out.

Rozier can play this kind of way with or without him if he is this aggressive and decisive.  This is not going to be either or and also we won't be playing the Knicks and Hawks all season.
120 points happened too so I'd say yeah sure. Let's try it a little longer
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Snakehead on February 02, 2018, 10:43:43 PM
120 points happened too so I'd say yeah sure. Let's try it a little longer


Make sure we let the NBA bring the Hawks in again to play us.  I'd like that for the rest of the year too.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: kozlodoev on February 02, 2018, 10:49:08 PM
So you want to play Nader 27 minutes or so instead of Smart?  That's what happened tonight, plus 8 minutes of Allen.  It's not really hard to figure out.
Nah, I'd rather play Evans 30 minutes and Larkin another 5. Or perhaps Marcus Morris for 20 minutes somewhere in there.

I'm sure the team loves Smart's toughness and all, but the last several games are a prime example that there are other ways to win when you don't have to endure a 37% shooter taking 10+ shots.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Snakehead on February 02, 2018, 10:52:41 PM
So you want to play Nader 27 minutes or so instead of Smart?  That's what happened tonight, plus 8 minutes of Allen.  It's not really hard to figure out.
Nah, I'd rather play Evans 30 minutes and Larkin another 5. Or perhaps Marcus Morris for 20 minutes somewhere in there.

Oh okay we have Tyreke Evans.  ::)  Got it.  I'll sign off this forum for the night lol.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: GreenWarrior on February 02, 2018, 10:54:57 PM
sooo terry rozier has taken the Kelly olynyk approach to playing basketball. can't wait till danny gyp's some sucker again.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: CelticsFanFromNYC on February 02, 2018, 10:57:47 PM
I wonder if he just put Smart out of a Celtics uniform?

Why is this a thing?  We need them both, and that's been obvious when they both play and play together all year long... did we forget the rotation after two games?

Smart hasn't capitalized much when given extended minuted and responsibilities. When Rozier is moving the ball like this, Smart's value to the team becomes very limited imo. 3rd string ball handling and you  dont want him spotting up. Hayward will eventually control the ball. I see no relevant reason to pay Smart  even though Rozier can easily take take Reggie Jackson route himself. Smart's defense is game changing, but not franchise changing


So you want to play Nader 27 minutes or so instead of Smart?  That's what happened tonight, plus 8 minutes of Allen.  It's not really hard to figure out.

Rozier can play this kind of way with or without him if he is this aggressive and decisive.  This is not going to be either or and also we won't be playing the Knicks and Hawks all season.

As I mentioned Hayward receiving ballhandling in my post, I was refering more  to next season. If we get  Tyreke Evans or a shooter now,  Than there goes your 27 minutes
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: kozlodoev on February 02, 2018, 10:58:16 PM
So you want to play Nader 27 minutes or so instead of Smart?  That's what happened tonight, plus 8 minutes of Allen.  It's not really hard to figure out.
Nah, I'd rather play Evans 30 minutes and Larkin another 5. Or perhaps Marcus Morris for 20 minutes somewhere in there.

Oh okay we have Tyreke Evans.  ::)  Got it.  I'll sign off this forum for the night lol.
Even if we don't get Evans, when Irving, Morris and Larkin are healthy and Monroe is in uniform, there will be exactly zero minutes for the likes of Nader and Allen. Don't get too bent out of shape there :P
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: nickagneta on February 02, 2018, 11:08:12 PM
Good for Terry, I hope he keeps it up.

Of course, he'll be pricing himself out of a new contract with the C's if he does.
Not necessarily. If the front office decides Rozier is the keeper between Smart and Rozier, perhaps Smart is allowed to walk while Rozier is still in the last year of his rookie contract. Then maybe the contract the team might have gicen to Smart is given to Rozier a year later and he and the Laker/Sac pick are the 6th and 7th men on this team for the next 4 years.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Chris22 on February 03, 2018, 12:46:07 AM
I always felt Rozier could run the offense.
Smart is a defensive two guard in my mind.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: LilRip on February 03, 2018, 02:17:09 AM
Wow what a run by Rozier these past 2 games. He’s been playing on an all star level.

I haven’t been a believer of Rozier but Scal/Gorman were spot on when they were talking about his confidence level and body language. Playing as a starter, he has a swagger about him that - when Kyrie gets back - he needs to bring to the second unit. He’s been aggressive looking for his shot in the first unit (as has Horford, actually) and he needs to be just as assertive, even when Smart and kyrie get back.

I think this change in mindset would help the offense a big deal.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: footey on February 03, 2018, 08:10:18 AM
Rozier brings a lot of energy. He speeds up the transition offense, which tends to slow down when Smart is on the court. More so than Kyrie. In fact I think we playwith the most pace when Rozier, Brown and Tatum are on the court together. Would like to see those three on the court together more often.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Green-18 on February 03, 2018, 08:36:39 AM
I've always been a Terry fan so it's great to see him break out like this in a brief starting role.  He's showing that he has the talent to be a very good starting guard in the NBA.

The question going forward is can he translate this type of performance into a condensed version off the bench on a consistent basis?  Terry seems like a classic case of a rhythm player who plays with extra confidence when he knows that heavy minutes are guaranteed.  Talent has never been the question.

On a side note, it will be interesting to see what happens with Marcus if Terry is able to provide a consistent 6th man spark off the bench.  They both bring different things to the table but Danny has a big decision to make this off-season.   
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: hodgy03038 on February 03, 2018, 08:37:40 AM
I hate to say this because I am a huge Smart fan but the stupid incident in LA may have caused the end of the Smart era in Boston. Rozier brings so much more speed and offensive punch. I could see some sort of deal to obtain Tyreke that may include Smart and it could be a 3-way with MEM & OKC with Smart to OKC (who could really use him after the Roberson loss).
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: mctyson on February 03, 2018, 08:40:05 AM
I hate to say this because I am a huge Smart fan but the stupid incident in LA may have caused the end of the Smart era in Boston. Rozier brings so much more speed and offensive punch. I could see some sort of deal to obtain Tyreke that may include Smart and it could be a 3-way with MEM & OKC with Smart to OKC (who could really use him after the Roberson loss).

This was against NYK and ATL.  Let's simmer down.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Green-18 on February 03, 2018, 08:53:00 AM
I hate to say this because I am a huge Smart fan but the stupid incident in LA may have caused the end of the Smart era in Boston. Rozier brings so much more speed and offensive punch. I could see some sort of deal to obtain Tyreke that may include Smart and it could be a 3-way with MEM & OKC with Smart to OKC (who could really use him after the Roberson loss).

You are right but I could see this going either way.  Terry is showing flashes that could translate to elite 6th man status in the NBA.  The question is can he put together these types of performances into 20-25 minutes off the bench on a nightly basis?  A 6th man role is what will provide the most value to THIS team in the future.  It's too early to tell but Terry might end up being most effective in a starting role for a different team.  Danny will need to determine whether or not Terry can fit into the long term picture. 

On the other hand, Marcus still brings intangibles to the table that are ideal for a title contender.  We know what we're getting and his skill set is ideal to match up against a team like Golden State.  Curry probably doesn't drop 49 against us if Marcus is in the lineup.  I don't believe that the hand injury will affect any potential trades.  However, it will definitely hurt when it comes time to negotiate a contract during the off-season.

Danny is in a desirable but tough spot with both of these guys.  In a perfect world they can both be part of a 3-4 year title window but I don't see how it's possible. 
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: hodgy03038 on February 03, 2018, 08:56:35 AM
I totally agree and like I said I am a huge Smart fan and would prefer to see him stay but I am saying with OKC's need and MEM's asset (Reke) and the fact that Smart is in a contract year that I would feel it's not out of the question. My preference is keep both Smart & Rozier and also get Reke on the cheap.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Neurotic Guy on February 03, 2018, 09:01:50 AM
I hate to say this because I am a huge Smart fan but the stupid incident in LA may have caused the end of the Smart era in Boston. Rozier brings so much more speed and offensive punch. I could see some sort of deal to obtain Tyreke that may include Smart and it could be a 3-way with MEM & OKC with Smart to OKC (who could really use him after the Roberson loss).

I think it's more likely that the incident results in raising TR's value giving Danny the ability to add a player while giving a little less than he had anticipated.  Marcus' skill set is unique.  If Danny is able to land Tyreke, Terry's value to the team is replaced with a better, more versatile player (Larkin picking up some little pg spark plug minutes).
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: cman88 on February 03, 2018, 09:45:03 AM
If this year was to figure out who to pay Rozier vs. Smart, I Pay rozier.

Look how much better the offense is when Smart is out. And that is without Kyrie/morris etc. for as much as he gives you defensively, With Smart you are playing 4 on 5 on offense.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: feckless on February 03, 2018, 10:14:54 AM
I hate to say this because I am a huge Smart fan but the stupid incident in LA may have caused the end of the Smart era in Boston. Rozier brings so much more speed and offensive punch. I could see some sort of deal to obtain Tyreke that may include Smart and it could be a 3-way with MEM & OKC with Smart to OKC (who could really use him after the Roberson loss).

I think it's more likely that the incident results in raising TR's value giving Danny the ability to add a player while giving a little less than he had anticipated.  Marcus' skill set is unique.  If Danny is able to land Tyreke, Terry's value to the team is replaced with a better, more versatile player (Larkin picking up some little pg spark plug minutes).

Marcus's skill set is unique in that he can guard bigger players.  He is poor against quick point guards. On offense he slows ball movement and his shot selection remains atrocious.  And on offense he seems slow to learn.

Rozier is at least as good as Marcus against quick points.  On offense, in the past 2 games, he really showed a willingness and an ability to advance the ball and move the ball quickly.  Plus he doesn't, right now, have any of the off court stupidity which has given him this opportunity. While Marcus is in street clothes due to off court actions that are no one's fault but his own.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: chilidawg on February 03, 2018, 10:22:23 AM
If so, what do you see in this kid?

If you need rebounds out of your backup PG, I guess he’s okay. Otherwise, he’s got to be one of the worst rotation players in the NBA.

Just quoting this for kicks.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: hwangjini_1 on February 03, 2018, 10:28:01 AM
If so, what do you see in this kid?

If you need rebounds out of your backup PG, I guess he’s okay. Otherwise, he’s got to be one of the worst rotation players in the NBA.

Just quoting this for kicks.
wait. are you implying that cbers rush to judgement about players instead of waiting a few years to see whether they can develop????  ;D
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: KGs Knee on February 03, 2018, 10:30:35 AM
Good for Terry, I hope he keeps it up.

Of course, he'll be pricing himself out of a new contract with the C's if he does.
Not necessarily. If the front office decides Rozier is the keeper between Smart and Rozier, perhaps Smart is allowed to walk while Rozier is still in the last year of his rookie contract. Then maybe the contract the team might have gicen to Smart is given to Rozier a year later and he and the Laker/Sac pick are the 6th and 7th men on this team for the next 4 years.

I was accounting for the fact Smart may very well be allowed to walk in free agency this summer. Even if he does Rozier could still prove to be too expensive for us to retain if he continues to play the way he has the last couple games. The odds of that happening aren't great, because as soon as Kyrie comes back, Rozier will go back to his bench role, but all it take is one team to think Rozier is a capable starter and he'd be out of our price range.

Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: droopdog7 on February 03, 2018, 11:26:17 AM
Rozier has been fantastic these past two games (obviously).  But his shot selection still drives me crazy.  When shots are going in, great.  When they aren’t, no so great.  Agree with others who say hold your horses because it’s NY and ATL.

So I think rozier can continue to grow into a nice bench, spark off the bench guy (which he’s nearing already).  I don’t agree that these last two games show he’s going to be a very good starter.  In the long run, he’ll drive fans crazy because he’s not a PG and he’s not quite the offensive juggernaut of a Kyrie or Westbrook to justify his shoot first mentality.

As for Rozier versus smart, it’s a very legitimate question because they are close in value AND we likely will not be able to keep both of them in the long run.  Hell, we may not be able to keep one of them.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Roy H. on February 03, 2018, 11:49:55 AM
If so, what do you see in this kid?

If you need rebounds out of your backup PG, I guess he’s okay. Otherwise, he’s got to be one of the worst rotation players in the NBA.

Just quoting this for kicks.
wait. are you implying that cbers rush to judgement about players instead of waiting a few years to see whether they can develop????  ;D

Keep in mind, Rozier isn’t a rookie. At the time this thread was started, he’d already had a couple years under his belt.  And, if you go to how he was playing, he was terrible.

He’s playing really well now. Hopefully he finishes out the year strong.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: IDreamCeltics on February 03, 2018, 11:51:15 AM
Savvy fans noticed that Rozier's advanced stats (particularly RPM) indicated he had surpassed Marcus Smart a while ago, but his minutes weren't commensurate with his potential to contribute.  I believe there have been several threads on the topic. 

We're not seeing a new Terry, we're just seeing what he can do when he's put in a position to succeed instead of being the team's 4th guard.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Roy H. on February 03, 2018, 02:51:13 PM
Savvy fans noticed that Rozier's advanced stats (particularly RPM) indicated he had surpassed Marcus Smart a while ago, but his minutes weren't commensurate with his potential to contribute.  I believe there have been several threads on the topic. 

We're not seeing a new Terry, we're just seeing what he can do when he's put in a position to succeed instead of being the team's 4th guard.

Saavy fans shouldn’t put much stock in RPM when comparing players. It’s not really a stat, or a composite. It’s a formula that adds variables like height and age, along with prior year’s performances.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: KGs Knee on February 03, 2018, 03:05:39 PM
Savvy fans noticed that Rozier's advanced stats (particularly RPM) indicated he had surpassed Marcus Smart a while ago, but his minutes weren't commensurate with his potential to contribute.  I believe there have been several threads on the topic. 

We're not seeing a new Terry, we're just seeing what he can do when he's put in a position to succeed instead of being the team's 4th guard.

Saavy fans shouldn’t put much stock in RPM when comparing players. It’s not really a stat, or a composite. It’s a formula that adds variables like height and age, along with prior year’s performances.

Exactly

RPM isn't even meant to be a snapshot of a player's performance for the season. It's meant to be a prediction of future performance.

The problem is ESPN has intentionally, and rather irresponsibly I might add, allowed people to think otherwise.

If people are looking for a plus/minus stat that attempts to account for the quality of teammates, they'd be better of using basketball-reference's BPM. Although, even that stat is sketchy, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: colincb on February 03, 2018, 03:56:54 PM
Rozier’s Statistical Advantages
2P%
3P%
eFG%
FT%
Offensive Rebounding per 36 Minutes
Defensive Rebounding per 36 Minutes
Steals per 36 Minutes
Turnovers per 36 Minutes
Personal fouls per 36 Minutes
Points per 36 Minutes
Offensive Rating
Defensive Rating
PER
Total Shooting%
Offensive Rebounding%
Defensive Rebounding%
Steal%
Turnover%
Assists to Turnover Ratio
Offensive Win Shares
Defensive Win Shares
Win Shares/48
Offensive Box +/-
Defensive Box +/-
Offensive Real +/-
Defensive Real +/-
VORP

Smart’s Statistical Advantages
Assists per 36 Minutes
Blocks per 36 Minutes
Assist%
Block%
FTs Earned per FGA%
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Ilikesports17 on February 04, 2018, 04:32:00 PM
Savvy fans noticed that Rozier's advanced stats (particularly RPM) indicated he had surpassed Marcus Smart a while ago, but his minutes weren't commensurate with his potential to contribute.  I believe there have been several threads on the topic. 

We're not seeing a new Terry, we're just seeing what he can do when he's put in a position to succeed instead of being the team's 4th guard.
I don't think any savvy fans used a stat generated by an secret formula which rates Tyus Jones as the 4th best pg in the league.

Savvy fans might have used one of RPM's cousins like RAPM or adjusted +/-  but they definitely didnt use basketball version of Total QBR.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: rondofan1255 on February 04, 2018, 05:21:22 PM
Keep building up that trade value! Crimson stallion (sp?) must be loving this.  :)
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: nickagneta on February 04, 2018, 05:28:34 PM
Keep building up that trade value! Crimson stallion (sp?) must be loving this.  :)
Rozier is going nowhere fast.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: rondofan1255 on February 04, 2018, 05:31:23 PM
Keep building up that trade value! Crimson stallion (sp?) must be loving this.  :)
Rozier is going nowhere fast.

Agreed, but his play influences their decision on Marcus Smart!
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: ChillyWilly on February 04, 2018, 07:14:44 PM
Rozier’s Statistical Advantages
2P%
3P%
eFG%
FT%
Offensive Rebounding per 36 Minutes
Defensive Rebounding per 36 Minutes
Steals per 36 Minutes
Turnovers per 36 Minutes
Personal fouls per 36 Minutes
Points per 36 Minutes
Offensive Rating
Defensive Rating
PER
Total Shooting%
Offensive Rebounding%
Defensive Rebounding%
Steal%
Turnover%
Assists to Turnover Ratio
Offensive Win Shares
Defensive Win Shares
Win Shares/48
Offensive Box +/-
Defensive Box +/-
Offensive Real +/-
Defensive Real +/-
VORP

Smart’s Statistical Advantages
Assists per 36 Minutes
Blocks per 36 Minutes
Assist%
Block%
FTs Earned per FGA%

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams, The Portable John Adams
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: indeedproceed on February 04, 2018, 07:29:08 PM
Keep building up that trade value! Crimson stallion (sp?) must be loving this.  :)
Rozier is going nowhere fast.

Trade deadline next season. Danny ain't paying him if he holds the value he just built.

Now he's had a come-back-to-earth statistically game, Kyrie will be back soon, his value will normalize. BUt it won't go back to where it was.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: bellerephon on February 04, 2018, 10:29:45 PM
Rozier’s Statistical Advantages
2P%
3P%
eFG%
FT%
Offensive Rebounding per 36 Minutes
Defensive Rebounding per 36 Minutes
Steals per 36 Minutes
Turnovers per 36 Minutes
Personal fouls per 36 Minutes
Points per 36 Minutes
Offensive Rating
Defensive Rating
PER
Total Shooting%
Offensive Rebounding%
Defensive Rebounding%
Steal%
Turnover%
Assists to Turnover Ratio
Offensive Win Shares
Defensive Win Shares
Win Shares/48
Offensive Box +/-
Defensive Box +/-
Offensive Real +/-
Defensive Real +/-
VORP

Smart’s Statistical Advantages
Assists per 36 Minutes
Blocks per 36 Minutes
Assist%
Block%
FTs Earned per FGA%

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams, The Portable John Adams

Those are all good points, and I like Rozier as a player, but stats don't tell the whole story and it is telling that Brad uses Smart over Terry. In the end they may keep Terry over Marcus, but Marcus helps the team despite his bad shooting.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: vjcsmoke on February 04, 2018, 11:00:54 PM
Rozier looks like the future.  He stepped up big time after Kyrie went down.

I believe Rozier's emergence is why DA deems Smart expendable for the right trade, ie a 1st round draft choice.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: feckless on February 05, 2018, 01:22:06 AM
Rozier’s Statistical Advantages
2P%
3P%
eFG%
FT%
Offensive Rebounding per 36 Minutes
Defensive Rebounding per 36 Minutes
Steals per 36 Minutes
Turnovers per 36 Minutes
Personal fouls per 36 Minutes
Points per 36 Minutes
Offensive Rating
Defensive Rating
PER
Total Shooting%
Offensive Rebounding%
Defensive Rebounding%
Steal%
Turnover%
Assists to Turnover Ratio
Offensive Win Shares
Defensive Win Shares
Win Shares/48
Offensive Box +/-
Defensive Box +/-
Offensive Real +/-
Defensive Real +/-
VORP

Smart’s Statistical Advantages
Assists per 36 Minutes
Blocks per 36 Minutes
Assist%
Block%
FTs Earned per FGA%

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams, The Portable John Adams

Those are all good points, and I like Rozier as a player, but stats don't tell the whole story and it is telling that Brad uses Smart over Terry. In the end they may keep Terry over Marcus, but Marcus helps the team despite his bad shooting.

I think it should be Brad used to use Smart over Rozier.  I would be shocked if Brad hasn't moved Terry ahead of Marcus for running the offense.  Even with  the weaker performance against Portland, Rozier hit some important shots, continued to do a great job advancing the ball, directed the offense well  and went against a high level set of guards in Lillard and McCollum and the C's got the win.  So in 3 games as the starting point Rozier has a triple double, a 30 point game and a win against an elite, top tier point guard.  Not too shabby.  Smart picked a bad time to be stupid.  He could have had this opportunity to shine.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: byennie on February 05, 2018, 02:38:52 AM
What I think this has shown is that Rozier is most valuable as our true backup PG, with the ball in his hands. Smart should be asked to finally just play a role: defensive stopper.

Feels like a variation on Eric Bledsoe back in the day. Terry isn't a great passer, but he:

1) Plays above average defense and can guard two positions well
2) Rebounds at the highest level for a PG
3) Is a viable 15ppg scorer with the ball in his hands
4) Has an excellent low turnover rate
5) Passes well enough to keep the offense flowing

He might not be a star (yet), but that's a lot of useful tools and not a lot of real weaknesses.

~15/6/4 with a 3:1 turnover ratio and good defense if a team gave him the keys I think... not too shabby at all.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Androslav on February 05, 2018, 05:46:44 AM
His mom and dad will always be his fans, so there will always be some T-Roz fans.
I agree that we can close this thread.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on February 07, 2018, 07:09:04 PM
Rozay lost his Adidas deal for wearing Nikes during warm-ups.

https://www.si.com/nba/2018/02/06/adidas-terminated-terry-rozier-contract-wearing-nikes?utm_campaign=sinow&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&xid=socialflow_twitter_si (https://www.si.com/nba/2018/02/06/adidas-terminated-terry-rozier-contract-wearing-nikes?utm_campaign=sinow&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&xid=socialflow_twitter_si)

The deal was worth $300k over 3 years.  Maybe the Louisville scandal didn't help matters.  But on the real, TR has far outgrown Adidas' small change. 
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Chris22 on February 07, 2018, 07:22:39 PM
It is great to see Terry playing up to the level of his talent.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: td450 on February 07, 2018, 07:41:41 PM
What I think this has shown is that Rozier is most valuable as our true backup PG, with the ball in his hands. Smart should be asked to finally just play a role: defensive stopper.

Feels like a variation on Eric Bledsoe back in the day. Terry isn't a great passer, but he:

1) Plays above average defense and can guard two positions well
2) Rebounds at the highest level for a PG
3) Is a viable 15ppg scorer with the ball in his hands
4) Has an excellent low turnover rate
5) Passes well enough to keep the offense flowing

He might not be a star (yet), but that's a lot of useful tools and not a lot of real weaknesses.

~15/6/4 with a 3:1 turnover ratio and good defense if a team gave him the keys I think... not too shabby at all.

He should not be a backup point guard. He played well for a few games against weaker team defenses, and to his credit, he showed some discipline I hadn't seen before. He didn't force things and ran the set options he was supposed to. He leaned heavily on Horford to make decisions. He took the shots he was given and kept the ball moving.

What he can't do, and maybe never will, is handle the ball and make good decisions under more intense defensive pressure. We want to win a championship. He is not a playoff point guard. He reverted back in the Toronto game to his old habits of over dribbling and step back threes. He probably shoots those at about a 20% clip.

If they can get him to dribble less and improve his shot selection some, he's a really valuable rotation player, but I'd feel better with Shane Larkin running the second unit than I would Rozier.

Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Chris22 on February 07, 2018, 07:54:03 PM
What I think this has shown is that Rozier is most valuable as our true backup PG, with the ball in his hands. Smart should be asked to finally just play a role: defensive stopper.

Feels like a variation on Eric Bledsoe back in the day. Terry isn't a great passer, but he:

1) Plays above average defense and can guard two positions well
2) Rebounds at the highest level for a PG
3) Is a viable 15ppg scorer with the ball in his hands
4) Has an excellent low turnover rate
5) Passes well enough to keep the offense flowing

He might not be a star (yet), but that's a lot of useful tools and not a lot of real weaknesses.

~15/6/4 with a 3:1 turnover ratio and good defense if a team gave him the keys I think... not too shabby at all.

He should not be a backup point guard. He played well for a few games against weaker team defenses, and to his credit, he showed some discipline I hadn't seen before. He didn't force things and ran the set options he was supposed to. He leaned heavily on Horford to make decisions. He took the shots he was given and kept the ball moving.

What he can't do, and maybe never will, is handle the ball and make good decisions under more intense defensive pressure. We want to win a championship. He is not a playoff point guard. He reverted back in the Toronto game to his old habits of over dribbling and step back threes. He probably shoots those at about a 20% clip.

If they can get him to dribble less and improve his shot selection some, he's a really valuable rotation player, but I'd feel better with Shane Larkin running the second unit than I would Rozier.

Rozier had 32 assists and 10 turnovers in last years playoffs.
He handled the playoff pressure well.

Shane Larkin? LOL

Where Terry has really improved in the last few games is his three point shooting. In the last five games he is shooting 52% for threes. Why? He has started SQUARING UP TO THE BASKET ON THREES. I have been saying this forever. Watch video of Ray Allen. He always squared up to the basket before shooting his threes.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: td450 on February 07, 2018, 08:02:55 PM
He's a good combo guard, and valuable. He doesn't play afraid. The 32 assists were over 17 games. He didn't log consistent time as the primary ball handler. Its different when you are the guy who has to create for the offense.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: rondofan1255 on March 04, 2018, 12:04:42 AM
Decision next year will be interesting! Keep him or let him walk?
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: nickagneta on March 04, 2018, 12:32:53 AM
Decision next year will be interesting! Keep him or let him walk?
That's actually the decision for Smart this offseason. We won't have to make any decision on Rozier for well over a year as he is still under contract for next season.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: rondofan1255 on March 04, 2018, 12:53:33 AM
Decision next year will be interesting! Keep him or let him walk?
That's actually the decision for Smart this offseason. We won't have to make any decision on Rozier for well over a year as he is still under contract for next season.
My bad I meant next year as in 2019
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: chambers on March 20, 2018, 03:43:42 AM
Loved him from the moment we made the pick.

Anyone honestly regretting picking him over Portis now?
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: rondofan1255 on March 23, 2018, 02:39:53 PM
Rozier is now shooting 40/38/75. Never thought he'd reach those numbers over a full season!  :)

Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 23, 2018, 03:11:17 PM
I still think he has a low bball IQ. He can create his own shot and make difficult shots. He's not afraid of any shot. That's all good.

He's still sucks at getting people involved/running the offense. He's not too efficient and he's not nearly as good at defense as he should be given his athleticism.

He's a nice depth piece, but I don't think he can really play the 1.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Beat LA on March 24, 2018, 07:08:38 PM
I still think he has a low bball IQ. He can create his own shot and make difficult shots. He's not afraid of any shot. That's all good.

He's still sucks at getting people involved/running the offense. He's not too efficient and he's not nearly as good at defense as he should be given his athleticism.

He's a nice depth piece, but I don't think he can really play the 1.

Same, although saying that "he's not too efficient" is being extremely kind, imo, lol. Down to 39.8% on overall field goals, now ::).
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: nickagneta on March 24, 2018, 07:57:21 PM
I still think he has a low bball IQ. He can create his own shot and make difficult shots. He's not afraid of any shot. That's all good.

He's still sucks at getting people involved/running the offense. He's not too efficient and he's not nearly as good at defense as he should be given his athleticism.

He's a nice depth piece, but I don't think he can really play the 1.

Same, although saying that "he's not too efficient" is being extremely kind, imo, lol. Down to 39.8% on overall field goals, now ::).
When I look at efficiency I only look at TS% as it incorporates scoring from 2, 3, and the FT line. Rozier has raised his TS% each year going from 32.6% to 46.6% to 52.2%. League average is 55%.

Rozier has been steadily been getting more efficient as the year has progressed. Since the beginning of February he's been at about the league average of 55%.

So, as a whole this year he has been below average efficiently but recently been average. I don't think he is as inefficient as you are making it seem.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Rozier come in next year and be at 57+% TS% next year. He's developing at that rate.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Phantom255x on March 24, 2018, 08:28:26 PM
We can talk all about him being erratic at times and needing to have a higher BBIQ, but remember that this dude is still just 24 years old, and so far in the month of March (9 games), he's averaging 16/5/4 in around 33 minutes/game.

Avery Bradley is obviously a much better defender, but even AB in his "peak years" here averaged around 16/6, and Rozier looks like someone who with some more improvement can be a 20 point, 6-7 RPG & 5 APG kind of starting guard on another team.

Not sure how he doesn't have fans on here. Yeah, you can argue and make the case that he won't be here long term, but for now, just enjoy the Terry Show!  8)

The guy, along with Morris and Tatum, has been HUGE for us this month and is a big reason we're 8-4 in games without Kyrie (which is also a huge testament to the entire organization honestly).
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: ChillyWilly on March 24, 2018, 08:38:59 PM
I'm a fan just like Marcus Smart has his fan club with all his warts. No player is perfect except maybe Scal but he was a generational type mamba.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Phantom255x on March 24, 2018, 08:42:15 PM
I'm a fan just like Marcus Smart has his fan club with all his warts. No player is perfect except maybe Scal but he was a generational type mamba.

FTFY  ;D
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: ThePaintedArea on March 24, 2018, 09:18:26 PM
Mostly fans don’t consider turnovers in evaluating NBA players. But coaches do!

Terry turns it over at 8.4%, which is outstanding. Last year he was already very good, at 9.7%.  The improvement comes despite his big jump in responsibility this season.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: nickagneta on March 24, 2018, 09:27:43 PM
Mostly fans don’t consider turnovers in evaluating NBA players. But coaches do!

Terry turns it over at 8.4%, which is outstanding. Last year he was already very good, at 9.7%.  The improvement comes despite his big jump in responsibility this season.
Another stat Rozier has really improved this year. His improvement arc in all his stats is remarkable. Don't know where it ends but if he has 2 more years of the same percentage improvement arc, Rozier becomes a just below All-Star level player. That's how much he has improved from year to year.

Now I don't expect that, that's some lofty expectations for a pkayer to improve that much each year for 4 years, but if he does...wow.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Beat LA on March 24, 2018, 10:22:02 PM
I still think he has a low bball IQ. He can create his own shot and make difficult shots. He's not afraid of any shot. That's all good.

He's still sucks at getting people involved/running the offense. He's not too efficient and he's not nearly as good at defense as he should be given his athleticism.

He's a nice depth piece, but I don't think he can really play the 1.

Same, although saying that "he's not too efficient" is being extremely kind, imo, lol. Down to 39.8% on overall field goals, now ::).
When I look at efficiency I only look at TS% as it incorporates scoring from 2, 3, and the FT line. Rozier has raised his TS% each year going from 32.6% to 46.6% to 52.2%. League average is 55%.

Rozier has been steadily been getting more efficient as the year has progressed. Since the beginning of February he's been at about the league average of 55%.

So, as a whole this year he has been below average efficiently but recently been average. I don't think he is as inefficient as you are making it seem.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Rozier come in next year and be at 57+% TS% next year. He's developing at that rate.

Hey, I'm giving the guy credit - his scoring in double figures has been incredibly consistent. The problem, however, and as I said, is his efficiency. I know that it is improving, and perhaps I should be taking TS% into account, but at the same time, this is his third year in the league (granted, he didn't play much during his rookie year), and when you look at him and Smart, two guards taken in the first round in recent years, I don't know, I guess that I never thought that the bar would be so low that I'm now begging for one of them to shoot over 40% for a full season. *facepalm*

It's like I'm asking for frickin' sharks with laser beams attached to their heads and all I have to show for it, at this point, is mutated and ill-tempered Sea Bass! ;) ;D Ugh. 

Mostly fans don’t consider turnovers in evaluating NBA players. But coaches do!

Terry turns it over at 8.4%, which is outstanding. Last year he was already very good, at 9.7%.  The improvement comes despite his big jump in responsibility this season.

While I agree with the turnover percentage, my problem is that far too many of his shots might as well be turnovers owing to their high degree of difficulty, not to mention his low efficiency. Is that fair to say?

Mostly fans don’t consider turnovers in evaluating NBA players. But coaches do!

Terry turns it over at 8.4%, which is outstanding. Last year he was already very good, at 9.7%.  The improvement comes despite his big jump in responsibility this season.
Another stat Rozier has really improved this year. His improvement arc in all his stats is remarkable. Don't know where it ends but if he has 2 more years of the same percentage improvement arc, Rozier becomes a just below All-Star level player. That's how much he has improved from year to year.

Now I don't expect that, that's some lofty expectations for a pkayer to improve that much each year for 4 years, but if he does...wow.

Hey, listen, that would be great in terms of continued improvement. The question now, however, is should we sell high on the guy or keep him as our third guard moving forward, especially given that he wants to start. I mean, part of me thinks, even though I have no way to verify this as I haven't been watching, much, this year, that to get the best out of Rozier you probably need to keep Monroe, which I want to do, anyway #MooseIsLoose ;D, as that way Terry doesn't have to worry about running an offense, but I'm not sure. Can anyone corroborate this, as in has Rozier at least looked better since the arrival of Monroe?
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: footey on March 24, 2018, 10:45:37 PM
I still think he has a low bball IQ. He can create his own shot and make difficult shots. He's not afraid of any shot. That's all good.

He's still sucks at getting people involved/running the offense. He's not too efficient and he's not nearly as good at defense as he should be given his athleticism.

He's a nice depth piece, but I don't think he can really play the 1.

Same, although saying that "he's not too efficient" is being extremely kind, imo, lol. Down to 39.8% on overall field goals, now ::).
When I look at efficiency I only look at TS% as it incorporates scoring from 2, 3, and the FT line. Rozier has raised his TS% each year going from 32.6% to 46.6% to 52.2%. League average is 55%.

Rozier has been steadily been getting more efficient as the year has progressed. Since the beginning of February he's been at about the league average of 55%.

So, as a whole this year he has been below average efficiently but recently been average. I don't think he is as inefficient as you are making it seem.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Rozier come in next year and be at 57+% TS% next year. He's developing at that rate.

Hey, I'm giving the guy credit - his scoring in double figures has been incredibly consistent. The problem, however, and as I said, is his efficiency. I know that it is improving, and perhaps I should be taking TS% into account, but at the same time, this is his third year in the league (granted, he didn't play much during his rookie year), and when you look at him and Smart, two guards taken in the first round in recent years, I don't know, I guess that I never thought that the bar would be so low that I'm now begging for one of them to shoot over 40% for a full season. *facepalm*

It's like I'm asking for frickin' sharks with laser beams attached to their heads and all I have to show for it, at this point, is mutated and ill-tempered Sea Bass! ;) ;D Ugh. 

Mostly fans don’t consider turnovers in evaluating NBA players. But coaches do!

Terry turns it over at 8.4%, which is outstanding. Last year he was already very good, at 9.7%.  The improvement comes despite his big jump in responsibility this season.

While I agree with the turnover percentage, my problem is that far too many of his shots might as well be turnovers owing to their high degree of difficulty, not to mention his low efficiency. Is that fair to say?

Mostly fans don’t consider turnovers in evaluating NBA players. But coaches do!

Terry turns it over at 8.4%, which is outstanding. Last year he was already very good, at 9.7%.  The improvement comes despite his big jump in responsibility this season.
Another stat Rozier has really improved this year. His improvement arc in all his stats is remarkable. Don't know where it ends but if he has 2 more years of the same percentage improvement arc, Rozier becomes a just below All-Star level player. That's how much he has improved from year to year.

Now I don't expect that, that's some lofty expectations for a pkayer to improve that much each year for 4 years, but if he does...wow.

Hey, listen, that would be great in terms of continued improvement. The question now, however, is should we sell high on the guy or keep him as our third guard moving forward, especially given that he wants to start. I mean, part of me thinks, even though I have no way to verify this as I haven't been watching, much, this year, that to get the best out of Rozier you probably need to keep Monroe, which I want to do, anyway #MooseIsLoose ;D, as that way Terry doesn't have to worry about running an offense, but I'm not sure. Can anyone corroborate this, as in has Rozier at least looked better since the arrival of Monroe?

Kyrie Irving had surgery on his knee today.

I doubt many folk here are interested in trading Terry Rozier right now, especially given the circumstances.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: nickagneta on March 24, 2018, 10:46:14 PM
I still think he has a low bball IQ. He can create his own shot and make difficult shots. He's not afraid of any shot. That's all good.

He's still sucks at getting people involved/running the offense. He's not too efficient and he's not nearly as good at defense as he should be given his athleticism.

He's a nice depth piece, but I don't think he can really play the 1.

Same, although saying that "he's not too efficient" is being extremely kind, imo, lol. Down to 39.8% on overall field goals, now ::).
When I look at efficiency I only look at TS% as it incorporates scoring from 2, 3, and the FT line. Rozier has raised his TS% each year going from 32.6% to 46.6% to 52.2%. League average is 55%.

Rozier has been steadily been getting more efficient as the year has progressed. Since the beginning of February he's been at about the league average of 55%.

So, as a whole this year he has been below average efficiently but recently been average. I don't think he is as inefficient as you are making it seem.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Rozier come in next year and be at 57+% TS% next year. He's developing at that rate.

Hey, I'm giving the guy credit - his scoring in double figures has been incredibly consistent. The problem, however, and as I said, is his efficiency. I know that it is improving, and perhaps I should be taking TS% into account, but at the same time, this is his third year in the league (granted, he didn't play much during his rookie year), and when you look at him and Smart, two guards taken in the first round in recent years, I don't know, I guess that I never thought that the bar would be so low that I'm now begging for one of them to shoot over 40% for a full season. *facepalm*

It's like I'm asking for frickin' sharks with laser beams attached to their heads and all I have to show for it, at this point, is mutated and ill-tempered Sea Bass! ;) ;D Ugh. 

Mostly fans don’t consider turnovers in evaluating NBA players. But coaches do!

Terry turns it over at 8.4%, which is outstanding. Last year he was already very good, at 9.7%.  The improvement comes despite his big jump in responsibility this season.

While I agree with the turnover percentage, my problem is that far too many of his shots might as well be turnovers owing to their high degree of difficulty, not to mention his low efficiency. Is that fair to say?

Mostly fans don’t consider turnovers in evaluating NBA players. But coaches do!

Terry turns it over at 8.4%, which is outstanding. Last year he was already very good, at 9.7%.  The improvement comes despite his big jump in responsibility this season.
Another stat Rozier has really improved this year. His improvement arc in all his stats is remarkable. Don't know where it ends but if he has 2 more years of the same percentage improvement arc, Rozier becomes a just below All-Star level player. That's how much he has improved from year to year.

Now I don't expect that, that's some lofty expectations for a pkayer to improve that much each year for 4 years, but if he does...wow.

Hey, listen, that would be great in terms of continued improvement. The question now, however, is should we sell high on the guy or keep him as our third guard moving forward, especially given that he wants to start. I mean, part of me thinks, even though I have no way to verify this as I haven't been watching, much, this year, that to get the best out of Rozier you probably need to keep Monroe, which I want to do, anyway #MooseIsLoose ;D, as that way Terry doesn't have to worry about running an offense, but I'm not sure. Can anyone corroborate this, as in has Rozier at least looked better since the arrival of Monroe?
Can't go by just FG%.

If a player in a game shoots 20 shots, 10 from 2 and 10 from 3 but goes 4 for ten from both his FG% is just 40%. But he scored 20 points so his eFG% is 50% showing much better efficiency because you score more with three pointers.

If in that same game the player goes 9 for 10 from the line, his true shooting percentage goes to 59.4% which is an excellent percentage. League average is 55%. So though that player shot 40% from the field, he scored 29 points on 20 shoots for a 1.45 points per fga. That's excellent efficiency.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Beat LA on March 24, 2018, 11:23:33 PM
Kyrie Irving had surgery on his knee today.

I doubt many folk here are interested in trading Terry Rozier right now, especially given the circumstances.

Don't worry, I'm sure that Ainge has been working the phones for some time, now, lol ::).

Can't go by just FG%.

If a player in a game shoots 20 shots, 10 from 2 and 10 from 3 but goes 4 for ten from both his FG% is just 40%. But he scored 20 points so his eFG% is 50% showing much better efficiency because you score more with three pointers.

If in that same game the player goes 9 for 10 from the line, his true shooting percentage goes to 59.4% which is an excellent percentage. League average is 55%. So though that player shot 40% from the field, he scored 29 points on 20 shoots for a 1.45 points per fga. That's excellent efficiency.

Yeah, I've seen stuff about that, but I just think that it's strange how free throws, which, despite Abdel Nader's insistence to the contrary (just kidding. He almost looked as bad as me up there, though, lol. Ugh.), are uncontested, figure into the overall metric, so to speak, and I don't see any value in points per field goal attempt, but I'm willing to learn, haha. Like, what does that yield to any kind of analysis? It just seems rather weird, to me, to put it mildly.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: nickagneta on March 24, 2018, 11:54:54 PM
Kyrie Irving had surgery on his knee today.

I doubt many folk here are interested in trading Terry Rozier right now, especially given the circumstances.

Don't worry, I'm sure that Ainge has been working the phones for some time, now, lol ::).

Can't go by just FG%.

If a player in a game shoots 20 shots, 10 from 2 and 10 from 3 but goes 4 for ten from both his FG% is just 40%. But he scored 20 points so his eFG% is 50% showing much better efficiency because you score more with three pointers.

If in that same game the player goes 9 for 10 from the line, his true shooting percentage goes to 59.4% which is an excellent percentage. League average is 55%. So though that player shot 40% from the field, he scored 29 points on 20 shoots for a 1.45 points per fga. That's excellent efficiency.

Yeah, I've seen stuff about that, but I just think that it's strange how free throws, which, despite Abdel Nader's insistence to the contrary (just kidding. He almost looked as bad as me up there, though, lol. Ugh.), are uncontested, figure into the overall metric, so to speak, and I don't see any value in points per field goal attempt, but I'm willing to learn, haha. Like, what does that yield to any kind of analysis? It just seems rather weird, to me, to put it mildly.
Well go back to my example. Let's say two players go 4 for 10 from the field. One shoots 10 2 pointers and player two shoots all three pointers. Player one scores 8 points and so scores 0.8 points per field goal attempt or a TS% of 40%. The other player scores 12 points so scores 1.2 points per field goal attempt or a TS% of 60%. Obviously the player scoring 1.2 ppfga on a TS% of 60% is a more efficient scorer. Same amount of shots, more points.

Now lets say there is a third player who also went 4 from 10 from three but drove to the basket 5 times and was fouled on all five shots. Because he was fouled on the play the field goal attempts don't count. But he goes 10 for 10 from the line. So he scores 22 points on just 10 field goal attempts or 2.2 ppfga or a TS% of 76.4%, making him so much more efficient and effective a scorer as compared to player one and two.

All three players shoot 40% fg% on 10 shots, but one scores 8, another 12 and another 22. Are they all the same efficiently as scorers because they shot 40% from the field on 10 shots or is the amount of ppfga or TS% a better indicator of their scoring efficiency?
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Atzar on March 25, 2018, 12:36:33 AM
Yeah, I've seen stuff about that, but I just think that it's strange how free throws, which, despite Abdel Nader's insistence to the contrary (just kidding. He almost looked as bad as me up there, though, lol. Ugh.), are uncontested, figure into the overall metric, so to speak, and I don't see any value in points per field goal attempt, but I'm willing to learn, haha. Like, what does that yield to any kind of analysis? It just seems rather weird, to me, to put it mildly.

Think about it this way.  A team's score boils down to two things:  the number of points they score per possession, and the number of possessions they get.  It's that simple.  You score more points per possession, you score more points overall. 

Nick did a good job of explaining the math.  All of this is why three-point shooting has exploded in the league in the last several years:  despite the fact that players shoot threes at a lower raw
FG%, it yields more points. 

Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Beat LA on March 25, 2018, 12:39:18 AM
Well go back to my example. Let's say two players go 4 for 10 from the field. One shoots 10 2 pointers and player two shoots all three pointers. Player one scores 8 points and so scores 0.8 points per field goal attempt or a TS% of 40%. The other player scores 12 points so scores 1.2 points per field goal attempt or a TS% of 60%. Obviously the player scoring 1.2 ppfga on a TS% of 60% is a more efficient scorer. Same amount of shots, more points.

Now lets say there is a third player who also went 4 from 10 from three but drove to the basket 5 times and was fouled on all five shots. Because he was fouled on the play the field goal attempts don't count. But he goes 10 for 10 from the line. So he scores 22 points on just 10 field goal attempts or 2.2 ppfga or a TS% of 76.4%, making him so much more efficient and effective a scorer as compared to player one and two.

All three players shoot 40% fg% on 10 shots, but one scores 8, another 12 and another 22. Are they all the same efficiently as scorers because they shot 40% from the field on 10 shots or is the amount of ppfga or TS% a better indicator of their scoring efficiency?

I suppose that that's one interpretation, yes, but from my perspective, what your hypothetical scenario illustrates, at least to me, anyway, is that Player 3 is much better than the other two dudes at getting to the foul line.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: The Oracle on March 25, 2018, 12:42:55 AM
Kyrie Irving had surgery on his knee today.

I doubt many folk here are interested in trading Terry Rozier right now, especially given the circumstances.

Don't worry, I'm sure that Ainge has been working the phones for some time, now, lol ::).

Can't go by just FG%.

If a player in a game shoots 20 shots, 10 from 2 and 10 from 3 but goes 4 for ten from both his FG% is just 40%. But he scored 20 points so his eFG% is 50% showing much better efficiency because you score more with three pointers.

If in that same game the player goes 9 for 10 from the line, his true shooting percentage goes to 59.4% which is an excellent percentage. League average is 55%. So though that player shot 40% from the field, he scored 29 points on 20 shoots for a 1.45 points per fga. That's excellent efficiency.

Yeah, I've seen stuff about that, but I just think that it's strange how free throws, which, despite Abdel Nader's insistence to the contrary (just kidding. He almost looked as bad as me up there, though, lol. Ugh.), are uncontested, figure into the overall metric, so to speak, and I don't see any value in points per field goal attempt, but I'm willing to learn, haha. Like, what does that yield to any kind of analysis? It just seems rather weird, to me, to put it mildly.
Well go back to my example. Let's say two players go 4 for 10 from the field. One shoots 10 2 pointers and player two shoots all three pointers. Player one scores 8 points and so scores 0.8 points per field goal attempt or a TS% of 40%. The other player scores 12 points so scores 1.2 points per field goal attempt or a TS% of 60%. Obviously the player scoring 1.2 ppfga on a TS% of 60% is a more efficient scorer. Same amount of shots, more points.

Now lets say there is a third player who also went 4 from 10 from three but drove to the basket 5 times and was fouled on all five shots. Because he was fouled on the play the field goal attempts don't count. But he goes 10 for 10 from the line. So he scores 22 points on just 10 field goal attempts or 2.2 ppfga or a TS% of 76.4%, making him so much more efficient and effective a scorer as compared to player one and two.

All three players shoot 40% fg% on 10 shots, but one scores 8, another 12 and another 22. Are they all the same efficiently as scorers because they shot 40% from the field on 10 shots or is the amount of ppfga or TS% a better indicator of their scoring efficiency?
TS% (although not perfectly) does account for the possessions used when a player shoots free throws, points per FGA doesn't.  In your example players 1 and 2 are not given an equal amount of opportunities to score (10) as player 3 is (15).  Points per FGA is a very poor measure, TS% although it doesn't account perfectly for every possession used it is a far better representation of a players or teams efficiency.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: nickagneta on March 25, 2018, 01:01:57 AM
Kyrie Irving had surgery on his knee today.

I doubt many folk here are interested in trading Terry Rozier right now, especially given the circumstances.

Don't worry, I'm sure that Ainge has been working the phones for some time, now, lol ::).

Can't go by just FG%.

If a player in a game shoots 20 shots, 10 from 2 and 10 from 3 but goes 4 for ten from both his FG% is just 40%. But he scored 20 points so his eFG% is 50% showing much better efficiency because you score more with three pointers.

If in that same game the player goes 9 for 10 from the line, his true shooting percentage goes to 59.4% which is an excellent percentage. League average is 55%. So though that player shot 40% from the field, he scored 29 points on 20 shoots for a 1.45 points per fga. That's excellent efficiency.

Yeah, I've seen stuff about that, but I just think that it's strange how free throws, which, despite Abdel Nader's insistence to the contrary (just kidding. He almost looked as bad as me up there, though, lol. Ugh.), are uncontested, figure into the overall metric, so to speak, and I don't see any value in points per field goal attempt, but I'm willing to learn, haha. Like, what does that yield to any kind of analysis? It just seems rather weird, to me, to put it mildly.
Well go back to my example. Let's say two players go 4 for 10 from the field. One shoots 10 2 pointers and player two shoots all three pointers. Player one scores 8 points and so scores 0.8 points per field goal attempt or a TS% of 40%. The other player scores 12 points so scores 1.2 points per field goal attempt or a TS% of 60%. Obviously the player scoring 1.2 ppfga on a TS% of 60% is a more efficient scorer. Same amount of shots, more points.

Now lets say there is a third player who also went 4 from 10 from three but drove to the basket 5 times and was fouled on all five shots. Because he was fouled on the play the field goal attempts don't count. But he goes 10 for 10 from the line. So he scores 22 points on just 10 field goal attempts or 2.2 ppfga or a TS% of 76.4%, making him so much more efficient and effective a scorer as compared to player one and two.

All three players shoot 40% fg% on 10 shots, but one scores 8, another 12 and another 22. Are they all the same efficiently as scorers because they shot 40% from the field on 10 shots or is the amount of ppfga or TS% a better indicator of their scoring efficiency?
TS% (although not perfectly) does account for the possessions used when a player shoots free throws, points per FGA doesn't.  In your example players 1 and 2 are not given an equal amount of opportunities to score (10) as player 3 is (15).  Points per FGA is a very poor measure, TS% although it doesn't account perfectly for every possession used it is a far better representation of a players or teams efficiency.
I like TS% better as well. But when used in combo, ppfga, eFg% and TS% tell a much more complex story and gives a better all around picture of a player's efficiency and how prolific they are. Knowing how each number fluctuates based on their raw stats and game is very important in evaluating a player.

For instance, Kyle Korver has a great TS%. He's very efficient as a scorer. But he's not really a "scorer" and has never averaged a ton of PPG because all he has is the shooting skill. His lack of a much higher ppfga shows this because he obviously isn't getting to the line. The greatest and most efficient prolific scorers have much higher ppfga because they get to the line a bunch and knock those down.

Different correlations can be seen in the numbers for bigs with high FG%, TS% but not necessarily huge upticks in ppfga because they don't hit threes and aren't great free throw shooters.

I prefer TS% for efficiency but I think a combination of different advanced scoring stats tell a bigger picture.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: The Oracle on March 25, 2018, 01:15:41 AM
Mostly fans don’t consider turnovers in evaluating NBA players. But coaches do!

Terry turns it over at 8.4%, which is outstanding. Last year he was already very good, at 9.7%.  The improvement comes despite his big jump in responsibility this season.
That is not all that great of a thing though as what you want from a ball handler is to create a ton of great/easy scoring opportunities for their teammates.  Rozier doesn't make many mistakes but he doesn't take any chances either, he subsequently doesn't create (or even see) those easy opportunities for his teammates.  I would much prefer him if he turned the ball over more while creating those layups/dunks and wide open 3's for everyone on the floor with him.  There is a cost in the NBA to getting those easy buckets and it results in a few more turnovers unless your a magician that doesn't make many mistakes like Chris Paul.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Beat LA on March 25, 2018, 02:03:59 AM
Yeah, I've seen stuff about that, but I just think that it's strange how free throws, which, despite Abdel Nader's insistence to the contrary (just kidding. He almost looked as bad as me up there, though, lol. Ugh.), are uncontested, figure into the overall metric, so to speak, and I don't see any value in points per field goal attempt, but I'm willing to learn, haha. Like, what does that yield to any kind of analysis? It just seems rather weird, to me, to put it mildly.

Think about it this way.  A team's score boils down to two things:  the number of points they score per possession, and the number of possessions they get.  It's that simple.  You score more points per possession, you score more points overall. 

Nick did a good job of explaining the math.  All of this is why three-point shooting has exploded in the league in the last several years:  despite the fact that players shoot threes at a lower raw
FG%, it yields more points.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but this seems like an attempt to take an almost No Child Left Behind approach to basketball, or as one size fits all kind of policy or whatever as if every player is the same, when, I'm sorry, but that has never been, is not, currently, and will never be possible, as no two players are identical. They can share similarities, sure, but this isn't a cookie cutter operation, or at least it shouldn't be, in my eyes, as it takes all of the creativity and individuality out of the game, imo, as if the sport has been reduced to operating, in a sense, from the standpoint of the lowest common denominator, so to speak.

In Nick's example, for instance, I don't think it has anything to do with efficiency. What I see is three different players with three different skillsets, but either way, each guy accounted for six missed shots, so while you can say that the guy who went 4/10 on 10 2 point field goal attempts is less efficient, I guess, I don't think that his performance is anywhere near as bad as the numbers indicate, as missed threes are more harmful, imo, owing to long shots = long rebounds = fast breaks, while such is not the case, or at least not to the severity, imo, of missed three point shots.

Plus, is player one a post player or master of the midrange game or whatever? I just don't believe that there's anywhere near enough information to make any kind of thorough analysis/final judgement, here. 

Finally, I also don't necessarily agree that player two is automatically a more efficient scorer than player one. All the example showed, imo, was that the former is a better three point shooter, at least for one night, anyway, than his counterpart, who, for all I know, might be like, say, Danny Green, who is not a scorer in any sense of the word but is an excellent three point shooter. Am I making any sense, here?

I don't know, I just think that each player is unique and should be treated as such, and that they should play to their strengths. If one SG is deadly from midrange, have him take that shot, while if a big guy is a terrific post player, he shouldn't be shooting threes. Just take the highest percentage shot for you. That's all that I'm saying.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: nickagneta on March 25, 2018, 02:59:30 AM
Yeah, I've seen stuff about that, but I just think that it's strange how free throws, which, despite Abdel Nader's insistence to the contrary (just kidding. He almost looked as bad as me up there, though, lol. Ugh.), are uncontested, figure into the overall metric, so to speak, and I don't see any value in points per field goal attempt, but I'm willing to learn, haha. Like, what does that yield to any kind of analysis? It just seems rather weird, to me, to put it mildly.

Think about it this way.  A team's score boils down to two things:  the number of points they score per possession, and the number of possessions they get.  It's that simple.  You score more points per possession, you score more points overall. 

Nick did a good job of explaining the math.  All of this is why three-point shooting has exploded in the league in the last several years:  despite the fact that players shoot threes at a lower raw
FG%, it yields more points.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but this seems like an attempt to take an almost No Child Left Behind approach to basketball, or as one size fits all kind of policy or whatever as if every player is the same, when, I'm sorry, but that has never been, is not, currently, and will never be possible, as no two players are identical. They can share similarities, sure, but this isn't a cookie cutter operation, or at least it shouldn't be, in my eyes, as it takes all of the creativity and individuality out of the game, imo, as if the sport has been reduced to operating, in a sense, from the standpoint of the lowest common denominator, so to speak.

In Nick's example, for instance, I don't think it has anything to do with efficiency. What I see is three different players with three different skillsets, but either way, each guy accounted for six missed shots, so while you can say that the guy who went 4/10 on 10 2 point field goal attempts is less efficient, I guess, I don't think that his performance is anywhere near as bad as the numbers indicate, as missed threes are more harmful, imo, owing to long shots = long rebounds = fast breaks, while such is not the case, or at least not to the severity, imo, of missed three point shots.

Plus, is player one a post player or master of the midrange game or whatever? I just don't believe that there's anywhere near enough information to make any kind of thorough analysis/final judgement, here. 

Finally, I also don't necessarily agree that player two is automatically a more efficient scorer than player one. All the example showed, imo, was that the former is a better three point shooter, at least for one night, anyway, than his counterpart, who, for all I know, might be like, say, Danny Green, who is not a scorer in any sense of the word but is an excellent three point shooter. Am I making any sense, here?

I don't know, I just think that each player is unique and should be treated as such, and that they should play to their strengths. If one SG is deadly from midrange, have him take that shot, while if a big guy is a terrific post player, he shouldn't be shooting threes. Just take the highest percentage shot for you. That's all that I'm saying.
Sorry dude, but these mathematics are what has driven the game to be what it is now. Its why inside guys who shoot 53% are not valued or used nearly as much as three point shooters who shoot 45%. Just the threat of a guy who can shoot 40+% from three is valuable because if you put enough of them on the floor with a player like player three who can shoot efficiently AND get to the line, that opens space for player three types, the most efficient type scorers, to be most effective. Space the floor, and the Harden, Lebron and Durant type become that more effective. Its the math of the current NBA.

Unfortunately you can no longer look at the strengths of 12 individual players and make up game plans and plays that make each player their most effective. You can't have a playbook full of millions of plays that opens up every player to be their most efficient and useful for every type of matchup. You have to have a system and pkug the players into the system that maximizes the efficiency of the system. With of course that system being altered to make the superstars most efficient.

Thats the modern NBA. Thats the math behind it. Its not changing anytime soon.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: More Banners on March 25, 2018, 08:48:14 AM
Mostly fans don’t consider turnovers in evaluating NBA players. But coaches do!

Terry turns it over at 8.4%, which is outstanding. Last year he was already very good, at 9.7%.  The improvement comes despite his big jump in responsibility this season.
That is not all that great of a thing though as what you want from a ball handler is to create a ton of great/easy scoring opportunities for their teammates.  Rozier doesn't make many mistakes but he doesn't take any chances either, he subsequently doesn't create (or even see) those easy opportunities for his teammates.  I would much prefer him if he turned the ball over more while creating those layups/dunks and wide open 3's for everyone on the floor with him.  There is a cost in the NBA to getting those easy buckets and it results in a few more turnovers unless your a magician that doesn't make many mistakes like Chris Paul.

I dunno. Our offense isn't really set up for one player to get all the assists like some systems/players tend to do. So I'm not to concerned about any individual's raw total. The team total and % of assisted buckets for the team are probably was the staff is looking at. Individuallly, they count hockey assists, which might be helpful too.

It's big for a young guard to play in control and take care of the ball to get important or key minutes. Rozier is doing quite well. Not sure we'll end up being able to keep him down the road. He looks really good for having relatively little experience.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Emmette Bryant on March 25, 2018, 10:29:14 AM
https://twitter.com/cbssportsnba/status/614243589871288320
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: ChillyWilly on March 25, 2018, 10:39:10 AM
https://twitter.com/cbssportsnba/status/614243589871288320

This had me on the floor laughing in that tweet thread....mostly because it's true  :laugh:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DZGcR09VwAAPU2C.jpg)
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: feckless on March 25, 2018, 11:03:26 AM
Energy level, rebounding, speed - takes and makes big shots.  Does not shy away from opportunity, ever improving, coachable.  Seeing the floor better.  Handle is always improving.  Can get to the hoop, finding open people better.  Learns from Kyrie.  Learns from his mistakes.  Teammates love him.  Defends within Brad's system.  Makes quick guards work at both ends.

Mistakes but made huge shots in both the Thunder and Blazers wins.

Terry Rozier is a large part of why this team is overachieving. One of my favorite C's.  I am a fan!
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Roy H. on March 25, 2018, 08:57:22 PM
The kid’s a bum.

Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: KGs Knee on March 25, 2018, 09:06:00 PM
He's certainly been making up for all his past scrubbery lately.

If he keeps it up I might actually start to believe in him.

That's a scary thought.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Beat LA on March 25, 2018, 09:21:30 PM
He's certainly been making up for all his past scrubbery lately.

If he keeps it up I might actually start to believe in him.

That's a scary thought.

Ditto, lol ;D. TP.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: vjcsmoke on March 25, 2018, 09:41:38 PM
Terry Rozier has way more upside than Marcus Smart.  Is there any way we can keep them both? 

Terry has really impressed me the way he has played in Kyrie's absence.  KI doesn't have to hurry back from surgery because of T-Roz!
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: vjcsmoke on March 25, 2018, 09:46:37 PM
I think you're underestimating T-Roz.

Celtics will field 5 all-stars by the time it is all said and done.

Kyrie, Horford, Brown, Tatum, Hayward and T-Roz as the 6th man.  :)

Question if you had to trade away a young Celtic player in a package for Anthony Davis would you rather give up T-Roz or J-Brown?

Mostly fans don’t consider turnovers in evaluating NBA players. But coaches do!

Terry turns it over at 8.4%, which is outstanding. Last year he was already very good, at 9.7%.  The improvement comes despite his big jump in responsibility this season.
Another stat Rozier has really improved this year. His improvement arc in all his stats is remarkable. Don't know where it ends but if he has 2 more years of the same percentage improvement arc, Rozier becomes a just below All-Star level player. That's how much he has improved from year to year.

Now I don't expect that, that's some lofty expectations for a pkayer to improve that much each year for 4 years, but if he does...wow.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: indeedproceed on March 25, 2018, 09:48:01 PM
Still here never left
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Granath on March 25, 2018, 09:56:24 PM
I don't know what Rozier's limit is but I've long said (though not in this thread) that Rozier just needed to slow down and let the game come to him. He looked out of his control, like a 45 record being played at 78 rpms, and the mistakes were obvious.

I HATE to use this comparison for obvious karma reasons (so I'll apologize now) but he almost reminds me of Tony Allen in the way that Allen just finally seemed to "get it" in his 3rd year. You had to believe that Allen had turned a corner, scoring in double figures 14 consecutive games and 20 or more in 7 of those. Then, of course, Allen suffered a debilitating knee injury after the whistle and that was the end of that. Again, I hope the Karma Gods spare Rozier the same fate.

But the comparisons are somewhat apt. Allen had played about 2,500 minutes before he started that streak. Rozier passed that mark about 3 months ago - almost the same exact point that Allen did when he turned it up. Both guys hit that point in their 3rd year. In both cases it was almost like a light bulb going on - the change was that dramatic.

We never got to see if Allen could sustain or build off of that moment. I'm eager to see what Rozier does in the same situation.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: green_bballers13 on March 25, 2018, 10:00:41 PM
We're going to need him in a series vs WAS, MIL, or MIA.

He certainly is better since the beginning of this thread, but his playoff round as the starting PG against Wall, Bledsoe, or Dragic will be telling.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Beat LA on March 25, 2018, 10:03:30 PM
We're going to need him in a series vs WAS, MIL, or MIA.

He certainly is better since the beginning of this thread, but his playoff round as the starting PG against Wall, Bledsoe, or Dragic will be telling.

Idk about Bledsoe or Dragic, but Rozier has tended to play extremely well against the Wizards, albeit in a reserve role, going back to the playoffs, last year. My only real concern with respect to the prospect of him facing off against the Bucks in the postseason is that they just signed Brandon Jennings, lol ;D.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Bobshot on March 25, 2018, 10:19:07 PM
Another big night for Rozier--33 against the Kings tonite. He could make Danny forget about Smart, but Smart is a rare kind of tough defensive player every championship team needs. The kid has really broken out lately, given the chance to start.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: footey on March 25, 2018, 10:29:18 PM
And to think we could have had Bobby Portis.

You suck, Ainge.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: tstorey_97 on March 25, 2018, 10:37:16 PM
Rozier is the prototypical "energy guy."

Problem is when he starts at point guard for the Celtics, he plays big, really big. Bigger than in his career. This is fun because I always saw him as a great backup and I still do, but, shazzam, he has been puttin' it down and not in his usual up and down way.

He had achieved one thing that I think is really difficult...he is balancing his intensity at both ends. I don't know if Avery Bradley ever got this balance down. Terry Rozier as a starter somewhere? Based on his first 150 starts? Not a chance in heck. Last couple of months? Holy Christmas...maybe.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: chilidawg on March 25, 2018, 10:42:05 PM
Rozier is the prototypical "energy guy."

Problem is when he starts at point guard for the Celtics, he plays big, really big. Bigger than in his career. This is fun because I always saw him as a great backup and I still do, but, shazzam, he has been puttin' it down and not in his usual up and down way.

He had achieved one thing that I think is really difficult...he is balancing his intensity at both ends. I don't know if Avery Bradley ever got this balance down. Terry Rozier as a starter somewhere? Based on his first 150 starts? Not a chance in heck. Last couple of months? Holy Christmas...maybe.

Energy guys don't put up 30 very often.  It's gotten to be not that surprising with TR.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: chilidawg on March 25, 2018, 10:44:42 PM
If so, what do you see in this kid?

If you need rebounds out of your backup PG, I guess he’s okay. Otherwise, he’s got to be one of the worst rotation players in the NBA.

Just quoting this so it never dies.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Roy H. on March 25, 2018, 10:47:24 PM
Rozier is the prototypical "energy guy."

Problem is when he starts at point guard for the Celtics, he plays big, really big. Bigger than in his career. This is fun because I always saw him as a great backup and I still do, but, shazzam, he has been puttin' it down and not in his usual up and down way.

He had achieved one thing that I think is really difficult...he is balancing his intensity at both ends. I don't know if Avery Bradley ever got this balance down. Terry Rozier as a starter somewhere? Based on his first 150 starts? Not a chance in heck. Last couple of months? Holy Christmas...maybe.

Energy guys don't put up 30 very often.  It's gotten to be not that surprising with TR.

It's still somewhat surprising.  Today was the second 30 point game of his career, so it's not happening with any regularity.  He's only scored more than 23 points twice this year.

What's not surprising anymore is TR playing really well.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Roy H. on March 25, 2018, 10:50:32 PM
If so, what do you see in this kid?

If you need rebounds out of your backup PG, I guess he’s okay. Otherwise, he’s got to be one of the worst rotation players in the NBA.

Just quoting this so it never dies.

Well, it's right there in the OP, so it's not going anywhere.  Rozier deserved the criticism at the time.  He deserves a ton of praise for turning his shooting around completely, and he's playing with more poise and confidence than he's ever shown. 

I'm glad that he's proven me wrong.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Beat LA on March 25, 2018, 11:36:20 PM
Sorry dude, but these mathematics are what has driven the game to be what it is now.

Well that certainly explains a lot, lol. Ugh.

Quote
Its why inside guys who shoot 53% are not valued or used nearly as much as three point shooters who shoot 45%. Just the threat of a guy who can shoot 40+% from three is valuable because if you put enough of them on the floor with a player like player three who can shoot efficiently AND get to the line, that opens space for player three types, the most efficient type scorers, to be most effective. Space the floor, and the Harden, Lebron and Durant type become that more effective. Its the math of the current NBA.

Unfortunately you can no longer look at the strengths of 12 individual players and make up game plans and plays that make each player their most effective. You can't have a playbook full of millions of plays that opens up every player to be their most efficient and useful for every type of matchup. You have to have a system and pkug the players into the system that maximizes the efficiency of the system. With of course that system being altered to make the superstars most efficient.

Thats the modern NBA. Thats the math behind it. Its not changing anytime soon.

Why not? I'm not even suggesting some kind of playbook with "millions of plays", and not just because I am not even capable of diagramming a single one, ahahaha. All I'm suggesting is to take advantage of the strengths of your players, exploit matchups, and play out of such. Chess instead of checkers, so to speak. Welp, it looks like I have to stop watching classic basketball, lol ::). Sigh.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Somebody on March 26, 2018, 12:43:35 AM
https://twitter.com/jaredweissnba/status/978065390478725120?s=21
Let that sink in.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: vjcsmoke on March 26, 2018, 02:13:57 AM
https://twitter.com/jaredweissnba/status/978065390478725120?s=21
Let that sink in.

TP.  I thought T-Roz had a great day, but I didn't realize it was history-making great!  Talking heads will have a field day with this stat tomorrow!
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: RockinRyA on March 26, 2018, 02:39:28 AM
If so, what do you see in this kid?

If you need rebounds out of your backup PG, I guess he’s okay. Otherwise, he’s got to be one of the worst rotation players in the NBA.

Just quoting this so it never dies.

Well, it's right there in the OP, so it's not going anywhere.  Rozier deserved the criticism at the time.  He deserves a ton of praise for turning his shooting around completely, and he's playing with more poise and confidence than he's ever shown. 

I'm glad that he's proven me wrong.

He surely has played a lot better, esp offensively. My main problem with Rozier though, is his inability to fight through screens effectively. He's such an athlete, he should be a great defender, but this is what hinders him from becoming one. It's one of the things that Smart and AB are elite at.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: SparzWizard on March 26, 2018, 03:12:53 AM
I remember last year some of us wanted to trade Rozier for Serge Ibaka at the deadline.

 :o
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: footey on March 26, 2018, 05:11:54 AM
Rozier is the prototypical "energy guy."

Problem is when he starts at point guard for the Celtics, he plays big, really big. Bigger than in his career. This is fun because I always saw him as a great backup and I still do, but, shazzam, he has been puttin' it down and not in his usual up and down way.

He had achieved one thing that I think is really difficult...he is balancing his intensity at both ends. I don't know if Avery Bradley ever got this balance down. Terry Rozier as a starter somewhere? Based on his first 150 starts? Not a chance in heck. Last couple of months? Holy Christmas...maybe.

“Holy Christmas, maybe. “

Understatement of the week.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: rondofan1255 on April 05, 2018, 01:36:35 PM
Clutch Terry will be starting in the playoffs w/ Kyrie news.

Should we laugh or cry or both?  :D I’m pretty excited.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: indeedproceed on April 05, 2018, 01:52:29 PM
Still here never left.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: indeedproceed on April 05, 2018, 01:57:22 PM
Is Terry Rozier the most re-litigated Celtics player since Rondo?
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: feckless on April 05, 2018, 02:05:42 PM
Is Terry Rozier the most re-litigated Celtics player since Rondo?

Crazy isn't it, not sure what he has to do to convince people of his value and even greater potential?
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: CelticsFanFromNYC on April 05, 2018, 02:13:42 PM
I remeber the X-Factor thread we had as I been a Rozier fan not truly knowing if hell really pan out but the potential was there. I had iterated he might have a  Reggie JAckson type path in the beginning of his career. Its my only "I t old ya so!" moment  on CelticsBlog.  a bit of luck was part of it, if we can even call this luck
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: CelticsFanFromNYC on April 05, 2018, 02:14:31 PM
Anyone remembered I compared Terry Rozier to Dennis Smith Junior and was quoted the worst thread every by someone lol
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Chris22 on April 05, 2018, 02:18:28 PM
Anyone remembered I compared Terry Rozier to Dennis Smith Junior and was quoted the worst thread every by someone lol

People here would complain if you gave out ten dollar bills.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: tenn_smoothie on April 05, 2018, 10:46:52 PM
If so, what do you see in this kid?

If you need rebounds out of your backup PG, I guess he’s okay. Otherwise, he’s got to be one of the worst rotation players in the NBA.

Just quoting this so it never dies.

Well, it's right there in the OP, so it's not going anywhere.  Rozier deserved the criticism at the time.  He deserves a ton of praise for turning his shooting around completely, and he's playing with more poise and confidence than he's ever shown. 

I'm glad that he's proven me wrong.

Very nice integrity Mr. Roy, a rare commodity these days.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: tstorey_97 on April 05, 2018, 10:51:45 PM
Anyone remembered I compared Terry Rozier to Dennis Smith Junior and was quoted the worst thread every by someone lol

People here would complain if you gave out ten dollar bills.

Well yea....how about some twenties?
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: rondofan1255 on April 15, 2018, 04:01:20 PM
Clutch!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: triboy16f on April 15, 2018, 04:23:39 PM
Wauhhhh

What did I you guys about Rozy

At this rate unfortunately, unaffordable
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on April 15, 2018, 05:39:20 PM
Anyone remembered I compared Terry Rozier to Dennis Smith Junior and was quoted the worst thread every by someone lol

People here would complain if you gave out ten dollar bills.


I sure would ...make mine 20's  ;D
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: hwangjini_1 on April 15, 2018, 06:23:26 PM
Anyone remembered I compared Terry Rozier to Dennis Smith Junior and was quoted the worst thread every by someone lol

People here would complain if you gave out ten dollar bills.
ten???!!! why not twenty dollar bills!!!!!?????   >:(
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Ogaju on April 15, 2018, 06:33:36 PM
Anyone remembered I compared Terry Rozier to Dennis Smith Junior and was quoted the worst thread every by someone lol

People here would complain if you gave out ten dollar bills.
ten???!!! why not twenty dollar bills!!!!!?????   >:(

lol TP
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Bucketgetter on April 15, 2018, 06:35:29 PM
This thread keeps getting better and better lol
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: liam on April 15, 2018, 06:45:13 PM
Anyone remembered I compared Terry Rozier to Dennis Smith Junior and was quoted the worst thread every by someone lol

People here would complain if you gave out ten dollar bills.

Rozier would rip up both tens in your face but at the last minute pull a 50$ out of his ass!
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: rondofan1255 on April 15, 2018, 07:34:17 PM
At this rate unfortunately, unaffordable

MLE?
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: nickagneta on April 15, 2018, 07:37:05 PM
At this rate unfortunately, unaffordable

MLE?
More like $3 million. He is under contract next year and so very affordable
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: bellerephon on April 15, 2018, 07:44:39 PM
Next year he is under contract, yes, the question is what will it take when he is a RFA the year after. They CAN sign him, but will they be willing to, given the luxury tax ramifications. Given how well he has played the second half of this year, it may make sense to trade him this off season, depending on what they can get.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: moiso on April 15, 2018, 08:03:04 PM
Next year he is under contract, yes, the question is what will it take when he is a RFA the year after. They CAN sign him, but will they be willing to, given the luxury tax ramifications. Given how well he has played the second half of this year, it may make sense to trade him this off season, depending on what they can get.
No need to trade him this offseason.  See how much he improves next year, see how Smart is doing, see how the team is doing, see if the team is championship caliber.  I actually think it would be pretty dumb to look to trade him before next years trading deadline.  If Ainge wants Rozier as part the future in next season’s playoffs and beyond, then he won’t trade him.  He could look to move somebody else if he prefers Rozier.  Also it would be irresponsible to trade him before he reaches peak value and obviously they think he will keep improving.  No need to rush.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: bellerephon on April 15, 2018, 08:39:51 PM
I can understand that point of view, however, his value will be less at the trade deadline than it will be this off season. If they think they are not going to keep him, it might make sense to make a trade now, depending on what is being offered. I also think that his production will be less with a healthy Kyrie, Gordon, and Marcus on the roster, which could also lower his value.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: nickagneta on April 15, 2018, 08:56:56 PM
I can understand that point of view, however, his value will be less at the trade deadline than it will be this off season. If they think they are not going to keep him, it might make sense to make a trade now, depending on what is being offered. I also think that his production will be less with a healthy Kyrie, Gordon, and Marcus on the roster, which could also lower his value.
Pretty big assumption Smart will be on next year's team. I know everyone loves him but perhaps there is some crazy GM out there that decides to give him a way out of line offer. The Cs didn't extend him so the sides obviously thought there to be a difference in his value. Then he had another crappy shooting year, punched a picture putting him out for 11 games and then got injured and lost a chance to establish value. Smart could be gone, maybe via sign and trade for a star. Never know.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: indeedproceed on April 16, 2018, 10:20:53 AM
Still here never left.

I enjoyed yesterday's finish.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: PhoSita on April 16, 2018, 11:52:22 AM
I love Terry but I feel like he's in the Schroder - Reggie Jackson - Bledsoe category of guys who provide a lot of value as a backup but would be unsatisfactory as a long term full time starter.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: fairweatherfan on April 16, 2018, 12:04:19 PM
This cracked me up from yesterday - referencing Bledsoe's "trade me" Tweet from early in the season.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Da2T2buVwAAZess.jpg)


Terry had a very up-and-down game, but so did nearly every other main player other than Horford. He had a pretty big defensive lapse on the Brogdon 3 that originally tied it, he blew a great drive to the cup in OT, etc.  But much like those other guys he came through enough when it counted. Shaking Bledsoe that hard in that situation would be a legendary play for 90% of the teams in the league. Too bad our history gives us much higher standards  :)
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: indeedproceed on April 16, 2018, 02:29:01 PM
I love Terry but I feel like he's in the Schroder - Reggie Jackson - Bledsoe category of guys who provide a lot of value as a backup but would be unsatisfactory as a long term full time starter.

I think there are a couple things wrong with this.

1) Reggie Jackson in his 1 healthy season with Detroit had a borderline all-star caliber year. A top-15 starting point guard.

2) Eric Bledsoe when healthy in Phoenix is a fantastic comp (although I don't think Terry quite reached Bledsoe's level defensively from his LAC days), but as a full time starter in Phoenix Bledsoe averaged like 19 pts, 5 boards and 6 assists. That's pretty freaking good.

But all that said, Terry might be best served as a sometimes-starting-but-primarily-backup point guard.  I could definitely see starting full time mitigating some of his strengths and exacerbating some of his weaknesses.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on April 16, 2018, 02:36:00 PM
I love Terry but I feel like he's in the Schroder - Reggie Jackson - Bledsoe category of guys who provide a lot of value as a backup but would be unsatisfactory as a long term full time starter.

I think there are a couple things wrong with this.

1) Reggie Jackson in his 1 healthy season with Detroit had a borderline all-star caliber year. A top-15 starting point guard.

2) Eric Bledsoe when healthy in Phoenix is a fantastic comp (although I don't think Terry quite reached Bledsoe's level defensively from his LAC days), but as a full time starter in Phoenix Bledsoe averaged like 19 pts, 5 boards and 6 assists. That's pretty freaking good.

But all that said, Terry might be best served as a sometimes-starting-but-primarily-backup point guard.  I could definitely see starting full time mitigating some of his strengths and exacerbating some of his weaknesses.

Rozier is averaging 18-5-6 since his triple double (29 games) per 36 minutes. Bledsoe averaged 20-7-5 per 36 in his time in Pheonix (playing most for a losing team). Jackson was at 22-7-4 per 36 in his big season. There just isn't a big difference there.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: PhoSita on April 16, 2018, 02:38:00 PM
I love Terry but I feel like he's in the Schroder - Reggie Jackson - Bledsoe category of guys who provide a lot of value as a backup but would be unsatisfactory as a long term full time starter.

I think there are a couple things wrong with this.

1) Reggie Jackson in his 1 healthy season with Detroit had a borderline all-star caliber year. A top-15 starting point guard.

2) Eric Bledsoe when healthy in Phoenix is a fantastic comp (although I don't think Terry quite reached Bledsoe's level defensively from his LAC days), but as a full time starter in Phoenix Bledsoe averaged like 19 pts, 5 boards and 6 assists. That's pretty freaking good.

But all that said, Terry might be best served as a sometimes-starting-but-primarily-backup point guard.  I could definitely see starting full time mitigating some of his strengths and exacerbating some of his weaknesses.

1) One healthy season.  Inconsistency, injuries, and personality are all reasons why Reggie hasn't worked out as a starter, was better as a fiery backup.  Not a totally similar comp but I could see Terry having a similar result if he got a big contract to be a starter.

2) Bledsoe (when healthy) puts up good numbers, but I don't like him as a starting point guard.  Doesn't bring the kind of decision-making and efficiency I want from my point guard.  I think Terry is similar.  Ideal as a microwave scorer and defensive bull-dog off the bench.  Solid for spot starts.  Not the person you want full time at the point of attack.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Big333223 on April 17, 2018, 07:20:34 AM
I love Terry but I feel like he's in the Schroder - Reggie Jackson - Bledsoe category of guys who provide a lot of value as a backup but would be unsatisfactory as a long term full time starter.

I was thinking this exact thing yesterday. Rozier can undoubtedly be a starter in the NBA but if he's any higher than your, like, 5th best player your team probably isn't going far.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Androslav on April 17, 2018, 07:58:34 AM
I love Terry but I feel like he's in the Schroder - Reggie Jackson - Bledsoe category of guys who provide a lot of value as a backup but would be unsatisfactory as a long term full time starter.

I was thinking this exact thing yesterday. Rozier can undoubtedly be a starter in the NBA but if he's any higher than your, like, 5th best player your team probably isn't going far.

While I agree that Terry is not a potential lead guard on a contending team. I will counter with:

You are not winning the chip if RW or JW are your best players too.
Even worse, they will NEVER agree not to be the main men.
While they will take the ball out of the hands of a superior player, even if you have him on the roster.
They will use 35% of teams space as well. 40 mil $.

RW (whom I dislike) plays PNR basically all the time, that is effective but simplified basketball IMO, 2-2. It has limits, it is predictible if you can't attack in any other way. No coach has been able to instill an offense in OKC. There is that 10 APG trap - since he is a selfish player.
JW (whom I like) acts like he is a 4 time MVP and 3 time champion when in fact he showed very little regarding winning basketball. He should have beaten us last year if he was that good.
His teammates (Porter, Gortat...) regard him selfish. 10 APG trap once again - selfish player.
Satoransky made his absence easy in the regular season.
Both of those guys can't or won't play off ball. Terry can.

That effectively makes TR better player.
He can accept his role.
Since there is at least proof for him to he can be a part of an offense that includes 5 players - all players not 2 or 3.
He might not be the best in the business, but he can be held accountable and hit a big shot and he will improve. I think that TR is a better, more willing defender that all of the aforementioned; Bledsoe, Jackson, Wall, RWbrook and Schroeder. That also makes him a better fit.

Better player, precisely more talented player in a salary cap league isn't necessarily a better player regarding team success.
And as a fan of a team first, I value and respect that more.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: green_bballers13 on April 17, 2018, 08:07:28 AM
I love Terry but I feel like he's in the Schroder - Reggie Jackson - Bledsoe category of guys who provide a lot of value as a backup but would be unsatisfactory as a long term full time starter.

I was thinking this exact thing yesterday. Rozier can undoubtedly be a starter in the NBA but if he's any higher than your, like, 5th best player your team probably isn't going far.

While I agree that Terry is not a potential lead guard on a contending team. I will counter with:

You are not winning the chip if RW or JW are your best players too.
Even worse, they will NEVER agree not to be the main men.
While they will take the ball out of the hands of a superior player, even if you have him on the roster.
They will use 35% of teams space as well. 40 mil $.

RW (whom I dislike) plays PNR basically all the time, that is effective but simplified basketball IMO, 2-2. It has limits, it is predictible if you can't attack in any other way. No coach has been able to instill an offense in OKC. There is that 10 APG trap - since he is a selfish player.
JW (whom I like) acts like he is a 4 time MVP and 3 time champion when in fact he showed very little regarding winning basketball. He should have beaten us last year if he was that good.
His teammates (Porter, Gortat...) regard him selfish. 10 APG trap once again - selfish player.
Satoransky made his absence easy in the regular season.
Both of those guys can't or won't play off ball. Terry can.

That effectively makes TR better player.
He can accept his role.
Since there is at least proof for him to he can be a part of an offense that includes 5 players - all players not 2 or 3.
He might not be the best in the business, but he can be held accountable and hit a big shot and he will improve. I think that TR is a better, more willing defender that all of the aforementioned; Bledsoe, Jackson, Wall, RWbrook and Schroeder. That also makes him a better fit.

Better player, precisely more talented player in a salary cap league isn't necessarily a better player regarding team success.
And as a fan of a team first, I value and respect that more.

You had me until you said "that effectively makes TR a better player".
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: pearljammer10 on April 17, 2018, 08:13:02 AM
I love Terry and he has had a great season.

However, Terry is a starting point guard on a non playoff team. He is a 6th man, well above averaged point guard on a playoff/contending team.

I think his role with the C's is perfect for him and that will continue into the future. 26+ minutes a night off the bench backing up Kyrie and playing some minutes alongside him.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Green-18 on April 17, 2018, 09:23:03 AM
I love Terry and he has had a great season.

However, Terry is a starting point guard on a non playoff team. He is a 6th man, well above averaged point guard on a playoff/contending team.
.
I think his role with the C's is perfect for him and that will continue into the future. 26+ minutes a night off the bench backing up Kyrie and playing some minutes alongside him.

In the era of "position-less" basketball I would argue that Rozier can be a starting PG on a very good playoff team.  Who knows, our injured group could potentially get to the Conference Finals.

I still agree with your overall sentiment though.  I can't see Terry running the offense as a full time starter on a successful playoff team.  His basketball IQ in the half court leaves a lot to be desired.  Fortunately he can make up for this on a good team with solid defense, excellent rebounding, and insane confidence in clutch moments.  It's not easy to find guards with all three of those skills.       

 
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on April 17, 2018, 09:46:15 AM
I remember when everyone was saying that Isaiah Thomas was a 6th man on a playoff team.

Turns out, he could lead a team to the ECF.

Sounds like the same lingo is used of Rozier now.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: footey on April 17, 2018, 09:51:08 AM
I love Terry and he has had a great season.

However, Terry is a starting point guard on a non playoff team. He is a 6th man, well above averaged point guard on a playoff/contending team.

I think his role with the C's is perfect for him and that will continue into the future. 26+ minutes a night off the bench backing up Kyrie and playing some minutes alongside him.

Terry is our starting point guard.

We are a play off team.

Even if you remove the games played by Kyrie Irving, we would still be considered a playoff team.

Continue to underestimate him. 
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: TomHeinsohn on April 17, 2018, 10:02:43 AM
I love Terry but I feel like he's in the Schroder - Reggie Jackson - Bledsoe category of guys who provide a lot of value as a backup but would be unsatisfactory as a long term full time starter.

I was thinking this exact thing yesterday. Rozier can undoubtedly be a starter in the NBA but if he's any higher than your, like, 5th best player your team probably isn't going far.


While I agree that Terry is not a potential lead guard on a contending team. I will counter with:

You are not winning the chip if RW or JW are your best players too.
Even worse, they will NEVER agree not to be the main men.
While they will take the ball out of the hands of a superior player, even if you have him on the roster.
They will use 35% of teams space as well. 40 mil $.

RW (whom I dislike) plays PNR basically all the time, that is effective but simplified basketball IMO, 2-2. It has limits, it is predictible if you can't attack in any other way. No coach has been able to instill an offense in OKC. There is that 10 APG trap - since he is a selfish player.
JW (whom I like) acts like he is a 4 time MVP and 3 time champion when in fact he showed very little regarding winning basketball. He should have beaten us last year if he was that good.
His teammates (Porter, Gortat...) regard him selfish. 10 APG trap once again - selfish player.
Satoransky made his absence easy in the regular season.
Both of those guys can't or won't play off ball. Terry can.

That effectively makes TR better player.
He can accept his role.
Since there is at least proof for him to he can be a part of an offense that includes 5 players - all players not 2 or 3.
He might not be the best in the business, but he can be held accountable and hit a big shot and he will improve. I think that TR is a better, more willing defender that all of the aforementioned; Bledsoe, Jackson, Wall, RWbrook and Schroeder. That also makes him a better fit.

Better player, precisely more talented player in a salary cap league isn't necessarily a better player regarding team success.
And as a fan of a team first, I value and respect that more.

What about JC, GH, EP, ZL, RR, KI, LB, SN, JM, and DS, though?
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Androslav on April 17, 2018, 11:02:17 AM
Quote from: TomHeinsohn link=topic=94455.msg2480391#msg2480391

What about JC, GH, EP, ZL, RR, KI, LB, SN, JM, and DS, though?
[/quote

What about them?
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: TomHeinsohn on April 17, 2018, 11:06:51 AM
Quote from: TomHeinsohn link=topic=94455.msg2480391#msg2480391

What about JC, GH, EP, ZL, RR, KI, LB, SN, JM, and DS, though?
[/quote

What about them?

Just lampooning your gratuitous use of initials  ;D
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Androslav on April 17, 2018, 11:28:17 AM
Quote from: TomHeinsohn link=topic=94455.msg2480391#msg2480391

What about JC, GH, EP, ZL, RR, KI, LB, SN, JM, and DS, though?
[/quote

What about them?

Just lampooning your gratuitous use of initials  ;D
Just saving ink and forests.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: rondofan1255 on April 17, 2018, 11:47:29 AM
Initials overload  :P
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: indeedproceed on April 17, 2018, 12:13:25 PM
I love Terry and he has had a great season.

However, Terry is a starting point guard on a non playoff team. He is a 6th man, well above averaged point guard on a playoff/contending team.

I think his role with the C's is perfect for him and that will continue into the future. 26+ minutes a night off the bench backing up Kyrie and playing some minutes alongside him.

Terry is our starting point guard.

We are a play off team.

Even if you remove the games played by Kyrie Irving, we would still be considered a playoff team.

Continue to underestimate him. 

Love this take. 'Count us out all you want' - Terry Rozier
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Vermont Green on April 17, 2018, 12:57:51 PM
I love Terry but I feel like he's in the Schroder - Reggie Jackson - Bledsoe category of guys who provide a lot of value as a backup but would be unsatisfactory as a long term full time starter.

I was thinking this exact thing yesterday. Rozier can undoubtedly be a starter in the NBA but if he's any higher than your, like, 5th best player your team probably isn't going far.

While I agree that Terry is not a potential lead guard on a contending team. I will counter with:

You are not winning the chip if RW or JW are your best players too.
Even worse, they will NEVER agree not to be the main men.
While they will take the ball out of the hands of a superior player, even if you have him on the roster.
They will use 35% of teams space as well. 40 mil $.

RW (whom I dislike) plays PNR basically all the time, that is effective but simplified basketball IMO, 2-2. It has limits, it is predictible if you can't attack in any other way. No coach has been able to instill an offense in OKC. There is that 10 APG trap - since he is a selfish player.
JW (whom I like) acts like he is a 4 time MVP and 3 time champion when in fact he showed very little regarding winning basketball. He should have beaten us last year if he was that good.
His teammates (Porter, Gortat...) regard him selfish. 10 APG trap once again - selfish player.
Satoransky made his absence easy in the regular season.
Both of those guys can't or won't play off ball. Terry can.

That effectively makes TR better player.
He can accept his role.
Since there is at least proof for him to he can be a part of an offense that includes 5 players - all players not 2 or 3.
He might not be the best in the business, but he can be held accountable and hit a big shot and he will improve. I think that TR is a better, more willing defender that all of the aforementioned; Bledsoe, Jackson, Wall, RWbrook and Schroeder. That also makes him a better fit.

Better player, precisely more talented player in a salary cap league isn't necessarily a better player regarding team success.
And as a fan of a team first, I value and respect that more.

You had me until you said "that effectively makes TR a better player".

Agree, if I am correct that RW=Russ Westbrook and JW=John Wall, no, Terry Rozier (TR) is not a better player or even close.  He is doing great for who he is and who most thought he was.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: nickagneta on April 17, 2018, 02:26:29 PM
I love Terry but I feel like he's in the Schroder - Reggie Jackson - Bledsoe category of guys who provide a lot of value as a backup but would be unsatisfactory as a long term full time starter.

I was thinking this exact thing yesterday. Rozier can undoubtedly be a starter in the NBA but if he's any higher than your, like, 5th best player your team probably isn't going far.

While I agree that Terry is not a potential lead guard on a contending team. I will counter with:

You are not winning the chip if RW or JW are your best players too.
Even worse, they will NEVER agree not to be the main men.
While they will take the ball out of the hands of a superior player, even if you have him on the roster.
They will use 35% of teams space as well. 40 mil $.

RW (whom I dislike) plays PNR basically all the time, that is effective but simplified basketball IMO, 2-2. It has limits, it is predictible if you can't attack in any other way. No coach has been able to instill an offense in OKC. There is that 10 APG trap - since he is a selfish player.
JW (whom I like) acts like he is a 4 time MVP and 3 time champion when in fact he showed very little regarding winning basketball. He should have beaten us last year if he was that good.
His teammates (Porter, Gortat...) regard him selfish. 10 APG trap once again - selfish player.
Satoransky made his absence easy in the regular season.
Both of those guys can't or won't play off ball. Terry can.

That effectively makes TR better player.
He can accept his role.
Since there is at least proof for him to he can be a part of an offense that includes 5 players - all players not 2 or 3.
He might not be the best in the business, but he can be held accountable and hit a big shot and he will improve. I think that TR is a better, more willing defender that all of the aforementioned; Bledsoe, Jackson, Wall, RWbrook and Schroeder. That also makes him a better fit.

Better player, precisely more talented player in a salary cap league isn't necessarily a better player regarding team success.
And as a fan of a team first, I value and respect that more.
Had to read the entire post and put my detective hat on to figure out who RW and JW were talking about Terry Rozier, Eric Bledsoe and Reggie Jackson. Dang that's confusing.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: rondofan1255 on April 17, 2018, 10:32:57 PM
Scary Terry balled out!!   ;D
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: eja117 on April 17, 2018, 10:34:28 PM
If only he were a more intense player than was better on defense.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Fred Roberts on April 17, 2018, 10:49:53 PM
https://twitter.com/ESPNNBA/status/986396419937521665?s=19

Rocked the 33 tee pregame and dropped 23 a second time. Can't ask for more from Troz.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Boris Badenov on April 17, 2018, 11:32:07 PM
I love Terry but I feel like he's in the Schroder - Reggie Jackson - Bledsoe category of guys who provide a lot of value as a backup but would be unsatisfactory as a long term full time starter.

I was thinking this exact thing yesterday. Rozier can undoubtedly be a starter in the NBA but if he's any higher than your, like, 5th best player your team probably isn't going far.


While I agree that Terry is not a potential lead guard on a contending team. I will counter with:

You are not winning the chip if RW or JW are your best players too.
Even worse, they will NEVER agree not to be the main men.
While they will take the ball out of the hands of a superior player, even if you have him on the roster.
They will use 35% of teams space as well. 40 mil $.

RW (whom I dislike) plays PNR basically all the time, that is effective but simplified basketball IMO, 2-2. It has limits, it is predictible if you can't attack in any other way. No coach has been able to instill an offense in OKC. There is that 10 APG trap - since he is a selfish player.
JW (whom I like) acts like he is a 4 time MVP and 3 time champion when in fact he showed very little regarding winning basketball. He should have beaten us last year if he was that good.
His teammates (Porter, Gortat...) regard him selfish. 10 APG trap once again - selfish player.
Satoransky made his absence easy in the regular season.
Both of those guys can't or won't play off ball. Terry can.

That effectively makes TR better player.
He can accept his role.
Since there is at least proof for him to he can be a part of an offense that includes 5 players - all players not 2 or 3.
He might not be the best in the business, but he can be held accountable and hit a big shot and he will improve. I think that TR is a better, more willing defender that all of the aforementioned; Bledsoe, Jackson, Wall, RWbrook and Schroeder. That also makes him a better fit.

Better player, precisely more talented player in a salary cap league isn't necessarily a better player regarding team success.
And as a fan of a team first, I value and respect that more.

What about JC, GH, EP, ZL, RR, KI, LB, SN, JM, and DS, though?

They're all busy finishing up those TPS reports.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: rondofan1255 on April 28, 2018, 11:41:29 PM
great game!!

 :)

Impressive series overall, the Bledsoe drama too!
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: rondofan1255 on April 30, 2018, 10:57:33 PM
Drew Bledsoe tweeted about the jersey lol.

Quote
This jersey ALWAYS loved the long ball!! 💥 @T_Rozzay3

https://twitter.com/DrewBledsoe/status/991141914048122880

Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Atzar on April 30, 2018, 10:59:14 PM
Drew Bledsoe tweeted about the jersey lol.

Quote
This jersey ALWAYS loved the long ball!! 💥 @T_Rozzay3

https://twitter.com/DrewBledsoe/status/991141914048122880

This bromance is becoming one of my favorite things, lol.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Chris22 on April 30, 2018, 11:44:01 PM
15-2 and somebody wants to complain about Rozier.
Sheesh.
I love Rozier.

Still do.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: trickybilly on April 30, 2018, 11:51:53 PM
Trade.

Nowadays you need a guy like Shaun Livingstone (someone resigned to being a backup).

People talking Sabonis and a second rounder need to check their head. Rozier's ball handling is insane. He virtually never turns the ball over.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Chris22 on April 30, 2018, 11:56:15 PM
Trade.

Nowadays you need a guy like Shaun Livingstone (someone resigned to being a backup).

People talking Sabonis and a second rounder need to check their head. Rozier's ball handling is insane. He virtually never turns the ball over.

Rozier is a better all around player than Kyrie.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: perks-a-beast on May 01, 2018, 12:45:56 AM
Trade.

Nowadays you need a guy like Shaun Livingstone (someone resigned to being a backup).

People talking Sabonis and a second rounder need to check their head. Rozier's ball handling is insane. He virtually never turns the ball over.

Rozier is a better all around player than Kyrie.



Perhaps the boldest statement I've ever seen on this blog..please elaborate
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: CelticsElite on May 01, 2018, 01:05:06 AM
Trade.

Nowadays you need a guy like Shaun Livingstone (someone resigned to being a backup).

People talking Sabonis and a second rounder need to check their head. Rozier's ball handling is insane. He virtually never turns the ball over.

Rozier is a better all around player than Kyrie.



Perhaps the boldest statement I've ever seen on this blog..please elaborate
im going to go ahead and guess that he means Roziers defense is significantly better than kyries that it more than makes up for Kyries superior offense


I don’t necessarily agree with it but I think that’s where he’s going with it
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: droopdog7 on May 01, 2018, 01:09:40 AM
Trade.

Nowadays you need a guy like Shaun Livingstone (someone resigned to being a backup).

People talking Sabonis and a second rounder need to check their head. Rozier's ball handling is insane. He virtually never turns the ball over.

Rozier is a better all around player than Kyrie.
Rozier just had the game of his life and ended up with 26 points.  Kyrie [dang] near averages that over the season.  Rozier is NOWHERE near as good as Kyrie.  So please stop.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: gouki88 on May 01, 2018, 01:25:43 AM
Trade.

Nowadays you need a guy like Shaun Livingstone (someone resigned to being a backup).

People talking Sabonis and a second rounder need to check their head. Rozier's ball handling is insane. He virtually never turns the ball over.

Rozier is a better all around player than Kyrie.
LOL, ok guy. Ridiculous take
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Chris22 on May 01, 2018, 01:30:29 AM
Trade.

Nowadays you need a guy like Shaun Livingstone (someone resigned to being a backup).

People talking Sabonis and a second rounder need to check their head. Rozier's ball handling is insane. He virtually never turns the ball over.

Rozier is a better all around player than Kyrie.
Rozier just had the game of his life and ended up with 26 points.  Kyrie [dang] near averages that over the season.  Rozier is NOWHERE near as good as Kyrie.  So please stop.

Never.
Rozier can defend, rebound, and assist.
Kyrie is a great scorer who can't defend and is often injured.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: gouki88 on May 01, 2018, 01:37:06 AM
Trade.

Nowadays you need a guy like Shaun Livingstone (someone resigned to being a backup).

People talking Sabonis and a second rounder need to check their head. Rozier's ball handling is insane. He virtually never turns the ball over.

Rozier is a better all around player than Kyrie.
Rozier just had the game of his life and ended up with 26 points.  Kyrie [dang] near averages that over the season.  Rozier is NOWHERE near as good as Kyrie.  So please stop.

Never.
Rozier can defend, rebound, and assist.
Kyrie is a great scorer who can't defend and is often injured.
Rozier is an inconsistent defender and is a very poor passer, often dribbling himself into trouble and then taking bad shots. His BBIQ is very low.

Him and Kyrie (5x All-Star, NBA champion, ROY winner, USA basketballer & All-NBA level point guard) are not quite on the same level.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: rondofan1255 on May 01, 2018, 10:56:41 PM
Watching the Raptors play in crunch time = more appreciation for Rozier’s big shot ability, even if he’s much better at home than on the road
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: tstorey_97 on May 01, 2018, 11:10:27 PM
Terry Rozier has been huge except on the road. He is not a great passer and Stevens will flip him to shooting guard with Larkin on the court sometimes.

Terry had a terrible time in Milwaukee, but, balances it with being the monster hero of the century in Boston pretty darned often. He is a rebounding machine and plays his heart out which is why we love him.

Is he a starting point guard for a top 5 NBA team? Well, he's got his chance to prove it pretty much right now doesn't he?
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Roy H. on May 02, 2018, 12:54:09 AM
It’s interesting to see the “Rozier can’t play on the road” narrative start to develop. During the regular season, his home / away splits were almost identical.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Atzar on May 02, 2018, 01:41:36 AM
It’s interesting to see the “Rozier can’t play on the road” narrative start to develop. During the regular season, his home / away splits were almost identical.

Yeah.  I think it’ll turn out to be less “Rozier sucks on the road” and more “playoff away games are really, really hard”.

Or it’ll just normalize as the sample grows.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: keevsnick on May 02, 2018, 01:55:17 AM
It’s interesting to see the “Rozier can’t play on the road” narrative start to develop. During the regular season, his home / away splits were almost identical.

Yeah.  I think it’ll turn out to be less “Rozier sucks on the road” and more “playoff away games are really, really hard”.

Or it’ll just normalize as the sample grows.

Ya I think its more that players in general in the playoffs play better at home than away, especially young guys. Its not uni que to terry.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Celtics4ever on May 02, 2018, 07:04:40 AM
Quote
It’s interesting to see the “Rozier can’t play on the road” narrative start to develop. During the regular season, his home / away splits were almost identical.

Didn't we have a better win loss on the road than at home all season until the post season?
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Chris22 on May 02, 2018, 08:21:41 AM
Trade.

Nowadays you need a guy like Shaun Livingstone (someone resigned to being a backup).

People talking Sabonis and a second rounder need to check their head. Rozier's ball handling is insane. He virtually never turns the ball over.

Rozier is a better all around player than Kyrie.



Perhaps the boldest statement I've ever seen on this blog..please elaborate

Kyrie hogs the ball, doesn't defend, and is always injured. Great offensive player though.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Big333223 on May 02, 2018, 09:52:04 AM
Trade.

Nowadays you need a guy like Shaun Livingstone (someone resigned to being a backup).

People talking Sabonis and a second rounder need to check their head. Rozier's ball handling is insane. He virtually never turns the ball over.

Rozier is a better all around player than Kyrie.



Perhaps the boldest statement I've ever seen on this blog..please elaborate

Kyrie hogs the ball, doesn't defend, and is always injured. Great offensive player though.

This has just not been my experience watching him play this year. He was far and away the team's best scoring option this season, finished 8th in the league in ppg, 11th in FGA per game, and 9th in USG%. He's not a great playmaker for others but as the #1 option, I thought he did fine in that regard and rarely felt like he was trying to do too much.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: indeedproceed on May 02, 2018, 09:57:31 AM
Still here never left
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: ederson on May 02, 2018, 10:10:00 AM


Kyrie hogs the ball, doesn't defend, and is always injured. Great offensive player though.

He has played 441 games in 7 seasons (574 games) ... ~76%
80% the last 2 seasons

He definately is no AC Green but 'always injured' is an exaggeration
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Fafnir on May 02, 2018, 10:20:26 AM
It’s interesting to see the “Rozier can’t play on the road” narrative start to develop. During the regular season, his home / away splits were almost identical.
Just how the recent road games played out:

Game 3 nobody on the C's seemed to do a ton.
Game 4 Brown/Tatum carried the C's with 34 and 20
Game 6 Tatum was the only C to get it going, even he was inconsistent till he exploded in the 3rd
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: triboy16f on May 02, 2018, 10:31:43 AM
Cant stop watching Scary Terry game 2 highlights (nickname some are startimg to call him lol)

https://youtu.be/s1EGUicGi3s
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Phantom255x on May 02, 2018, 10:43:50 AM
Trade.

Nowadays you need a guy like Shaun Livingstone (someone resigned to being a backup).

People talking Sabonis and a second rounder need to check their head. Rozier's ball handling is insane. He virtually never turns the ball over.

Rozier is a better all around player than Kyrie.



Perhaps the boldest statement I've ever seen on this blog..please elaborate

Kyrie hogs the ball, doesn't defend, and is always injured. Great offensive player though.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/443BYGZCO6rFS/200.gif)
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: gouki88 on May 02, 2018, 11:33:28 AM
Trade.

Nowadays you need a guy like Shaun Livingstone (someone resigned to being a backup).

People talking Sabonis and a second rounder need to check their head. Rozier's ball handling is insane. He virtually never turns the ball over.

Rozier is a better all around player than Kyrie.



Perhaps the boldest statement I've ever seen on this blog..please elaborate

Kyrie hogs the ball, doesn't defend, and is always injured. Great offensive player though.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/443BYGZCO6rFS/200.gif)
Lma0
TP
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: rondofan1255 on May 03, 2018, 11:13:59 PM
This thread is good luck for Terry!

Brought it in the clutch!! Amazing switch once the game’s on the line
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Erik on May 03, 2018, 11:53:15 PM
By the way they updated Terry Roziers CARMELO rating

(http://i.imgur.com/3RcMDmb.jpg)
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Sophomore on May 04, 2018, 12:44:12 AM
Trade.

Nowadays you need a guy like Shaun Livingstone (someone resigned to being a backup).

People talking Sabonis and a second rounder need to check their head. Rozier's ball handling is insane. He virtually never turns the ball over.

Rozier is a better all around player than Kyrie.



Perhaps the boldest statement I've ever seen on this blog..please elaborate

Kyrie hogs the ball, doesn't defend, and is always injured. Great offensive player though.

This has just not been my experience watching him play this year. He was far and away the team's best scoring option this season, finished 8th in the league in ppg, 11th in FGA per game, and 9th in USG%. He's not a great playmaker for others but as the #1 option, I thought he did fine in that regard and rarely felt like he was trying to do too much.

Hogs the ball is a little strong, but to my eye the Celtics passed less and ran fewer actions when he was in. They had OK success, but the ball did seem to stick a little more - players waiting for him to do something to manufacture a shot and score.

Wondering how the team is going to be different after all these guys with limited minutes have had experience starting - and winning games - in the playoffs. I have to assume they'll have more confidence and they will defer less.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Chris22 on May 04, 2018, 01:11:06 AM


Kyrie hogs the ball, doesn't defend, and is always injured. Great offensive player though.

He has played 441 games in 7 seasons (574 games) ... ~76%
80% the last 2 seasons

He definately is no AC Green but 'always injured' is an exaggeration

Where is he now?
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: gouki88 on May 04, 2018, 01:54:27 AM


Kyrie hogs the ball, doesn't defend, and is always injured. Great offensive player though.

He has played 441 games in 7 seasons (574 games) ... ~76%
80% the last 2 seasons

He definately is no AC Green but 'always injured' is an exaggeration

Where is he now?
Ah right, must’ve forgotten that if a player is ever injured in the current moment, they are definitely always injured. Guess Hayward is always injured too. Cousins as well

 ::)
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: KGs Knee on May 04, 2018, 02:34:35 AM
Terry sure has grown a lot since the beginning of the season.  He's won me over.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: eja117 on May 04, 2018, 03:07:04 AM


Kyrie hogs the ball, doesn't defend, and is always injured. Great offensive player though.

He has played 441 games in 7 seasons (574 games) ... ~76%
80% the last 2 seasons

He definately is no AC Green but 'always injured' is an exaggeration
Well if he look likes AC Green with feet like Ben Vereen he shouldn't call here any more.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: makaveli on May 04, 2018, 06:20:03 AM
Thread of the year, for sure
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Androslav on May 04, 2018, 06:39:21 AM
Thread of the year, for sure
Terry - kicking out LeBron out of the East race.
Thread of the Biennale.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Roy H. on May 04, 2018, 07:11:40 AM
Terry Rozier before this thread: 

9.1 points, 4.9 rebounds, 2.3 assists, 34.4% FG%, 32.5% 3PT%

After this thread:

11.8 points, 4.6 rebounds, 3.1 assists, 40.7% FG%, 39.4% 3PT%

Clearly, this thread negatively affected TR’s rebounding.

Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Androslav on May 04, 2018, 07:21:13 AM
Terry Rozier before this thread: 

9.1 points, 4.9 rebounds, 2.3 assists, 34.4% FG%, 32.5% 3PT%

After this thread:

11.8 points, 4.6 rebounds, 3.1 assists, 40.7% FG%, 39.4% 3PT%

Clearly, this thread negatively affected TR’s rebounding.
Undoubtedly those are stats speak for themselves.

2 conclusions:
1) We need more "Are there any (insert Celtic) fans left?" threads.
2) Once you think that someone rebounds well and his numbers immediately fall.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: jambr380 on May 04, 2018, 08:45:21 AM
Terry Rozier before this thread: 

9.1 points, 4.9 rebounds, 2.3 assists, 34.4% FG%, 32.5% 3PT%

After this thread:

11.8 points, 4.6 rebounds, 3.1 assists, 40.7% FG%, 39.4% 3PT%

Clearly, this thread negatively affected TR’s rebounding.

The FG% is still something you'd like to see a little higher, but stats don't tell the whole story with Terry (just as they don't with Marcus). That 3 pointer when the Cs were down 5 with just a couple of minutes to go was so huge...and so were all of his other 3s. He just so moves so well with the ball that his defender is always off-balance.

I was a huge fan before the thread (see page 1), but now I don't see how we let this guy go. He is finally harnessing some of his elite athleticism and is just mowing over everybody that stands in his path.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Roy H. on May 04, 2018, 08:57:29 AM
Terry Rozier before this thread: 

9.1 points, 4.9 rebounds, 2.3 assists, 34.4% FG%, 32.5% 3PT%

After this thread:

11.8 points, 4.6 rebounds, 3.1 assists, 40.7% FG%, 39.4% 3PT%

Clearly, this thread negatively affected TR’s rebounding.

The FG% is still something you'd like to see a little higher, but stats don't tell the whole story with Terry (just as they don't with Marcus). That 3 pointer when the Cs were down 5 with just a couple of minutes to go was so huge...and so were all of his other 3s. He just so moves so well with the ball that his defender is always off-balance.

I was a huge fan before the thread (see page 1), but now I don't see how we let this guy go. He is finally harnessing some of his elite athleticism and is just mowing over everybody that stands in his path.

Ideally the FG% would go up, but he’s gotten much better, to the point where he’s a pretty efficient player.

Before thread: 42.4% eFG%, .459 TS%

After thread: 50.7% eFG%, .535 TS%

Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: gouki88 on May 04, 2018, 08:59:33 AM
Terry Rozier before this thread: 

9.1 points, 4.9 rebounds, 2.3 assists, 34.4% FG%, 32.5% 3PT%

After this thread:

11.8 points, 4.6 rebounds, 3.1 assists, 40.7% FG%, 39.4% 3PT%

Clearly, this thread negatively affected TR’s rebounding.
LOL.

I wonder which poster is secretly Terry
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Chris22 on May 04, 2018, 09:15:19 AM
Terry Rozier before this thread: 

9.1 points, 4.9 rebounds, 2.3 assists, 34.4% FG%, 32.5% 3PT%

After this thread:

11.8 points, 4.6 rebounds, 3.1 assists, 40.7% FG%, 39.4% 3PT%

Clearly, this thread negatively affected TR’s rebounding.
LOL.

I wonder which poster is secretly Terry

You.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on May 04, 2018, 10:04:33 AM
Rozier is one of the rare players in the NBA that electrifies the crowd and changes the pace of the game with his presence. He brings a frenzy and a controlled chaos that is difficult to guard.

Talent-wise (right now), he's probably somewhere around a Drew Bledsoe and Jeff Teague, but neither of those guys change the pace or energy of the game like Rozier does with his presence.

I was trying to think of the players in the NBA who have the ability to change the pace and energy of the game too. Here are the frenzied controlled chaos players I came up with: Curry, Thompson, Ball (potentially), Jokic, and Westbrook. Anyone else?

His frenzied energy is an intangible quality that makes him special and better than players with his comparable production. I just hope he can figure out how to have that impact on the road.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Big333223 on May 04, 2018, 11:00:22 AM
Let's see him keep it up on the road, now.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Sophomore on May 04, 2018, 11:10:13 AM
Terry Rozier before this thread: 

9.1 points, 4.9 rebounds, 2.3 assists, 34.4% FG%, 32.5% 3PT%

After this thread:

11.8 points, 4.6 rebounds, 3.1 assists, 40.7% FG%, 39.4% 3PT%

Clearly, this thread negatively affected TR’s rebounding.

The FG% is still something you'd like to see a little higher, but stats don't tell the whole story with Terry (just as they don't with Marcus). That 3 pointer when the Cs were down 5 with just a couple of minutes to go was so huge...and so were all of his other 3s. He just so moves so well with the ball that his defender is always off-balance.

I was a huge fan before the thread (see page 1), but now I don't see how we let this guy go. He is finally harnessing some of his elite athleticism and is just mowing over everybody that stands in his path.

Ideally the FG% would go up, but he’s gotten much better, to the point where he’s a pretty efficient player.

Before thread: 42.4% eFG%, .459 TS%

After thread: 50.7% eFG%, .535 TS%

And on a small sample size of 9 playoff games he’s been even better.

56.7% eFG%, 60.7% TS%.

Also, 7 assists/game to 1.4 TO. Excellent.

Last night’s game plan really suited him. Spread the floor way out, drive and kick to the wing when the D collapsed. Perfect for him. He’s still not great at the pick and roll as a passer, but this set let him pass very effectively.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: triboy16f on May 04, 2018, 01:57:09 PM
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1741/7527/products/scary_terry_rozier_shirt_530x@2x.png?v=1517969574)
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: PhoSita on May 04, 2018, 02:04:30 PM

His frenzied energy is an intangible quality that makes him special and better than players with his comparable production. I just hope he can figure out how to have that impact on the road.

Right now for the playoffs, his comparable production is Kyle Lowry, but I think it's fair to say that probably isn't going to continue indefinitely.

In some ways he reminds me a little bit of Reggie Jackson during his OKC days, only Terry can shoot from outside.

I'm also reminded of guys like Ty Lawson and TJ Ford who were small and really fast.  Aaron Brooks is another.


JJ Barea is another guy that comes to mind.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: kraidstar on May 04, 2018, 02:09:42 PM
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1741/7527/products/scary_terry_rozier_shirt_530x@2x.png?v=1517969574)

Drew approves.

(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/lPE0Snw5UubfEz0.5jSJlA--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAw/http://media.zenfs.com/en/homerun/feed_manager_auto_publish_494/930d6edca538e254efac61674bf050c3)
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on May 04, 2018, 02:24:04 PM

His frenzied energy is an intangible quality that makes him special and better than players with his comparable production. I just hope he can figure out how to have that impact on the road.

Right now for the playoffs, his comparable production is Kyle Lowry, but I think it's fair to say that probably isn't going to continue indefinitely.

In some ways he reminds me a little bit of Reggie Jackson during his OKC days, only Terry can shoot from outside.

I'm also reminded of guys like Ty Lawson and TJ Ford who were small and really fast.  Aaron Brooks is another.


JJ Barea is another guy that comes to mind.

Good thoughts on guys who brought energy. I'd say Rozier is better than any of those guys so far these playoffs. He is also a better defender than them.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: makaveli on May 04, 2018, 02:34:59 PM
Terry Rozier before this thread: 

9.1 points, 4.9 rebounds, 2.3 assists, 34.4% FG%, 32.5% 3PT%

After this thread:

11.8 points, 4.6 rebounds, 3.1 assists, 40.7% FG%, 39.4% 3PT%

Clearly, this thread negatively affected TR’s rebounding.
The numbers say nothing of his season. Just ask the Bucks and th Sixers.
I give more credit to Brad that Terry(so to say) and at this point I am convinced that Brad would turn Antoine Walker into an allstar
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Roy H. on May 04, 2018, 02:43:17 PM
at this point I am convinced that Brad would turn Antoine Walker into an allstar

Like this?

(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/portrait-of-eastern-conference-allstar-antoine-walker-of-the-boston-picture-id1819130)

x3

Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Boston Garden Leprechaun on May 06, 2018, 11:07:59 AM
well looks like we were all wrong on terry. he has been great during the playoffs
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Vox_Populi on May 06, 2018, 11:24:41 AM
I'm not sure of another player, recently, who has proven me as wrong as Rozier has. Incredible post-season from him. He barely turns it over, while providing enough play-making.. He's been an elite 3-point shooter, particularly late in games. He's been mostly good on the defensive end.

Very curious what Ainge will do with him now.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Roy H. on May 06, 2018, 11:40:45 AM
I'm not sure of another player, recently, who has proven me as wrong as Rozier has.

Outside of draft picks (where I’m wrong all the time), Austin Rivers is the only other guy I can remember being completely wrong about. I thought he was complete garbage, but he turned into an okay rotation player.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: rondofan1255 on May 06, 2018, 11:41:15 AM
even if he’s much better at home than on the road

...and he had a solid road game 3 after this

 :o

Wasn't even confident he would stick in the league at the beginning of the year, and now people are discussing what he assets he can bring back in a trade

Somebody on CB posted a Suns fan site link where a writer on their SBNation was seriously discussing #16 + #31 + for Rozier.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Phantom255x on May 06, 2018, 11:44:33 AM
I'm not sure of another player, recently, who has proven me as wrong as Rozier has.

Outside of draft picks (where I’m wrong all the time), Austin Rivers is the only other guy I can remember being completely wrong about. I thought he was complete garbage, but he turned into an okay rotation player.

I guess, but like Austin Rivers lucked out that his dad was coaching. If not, he's already out of the league.

Apparently, part of the reason Reddick and CP3 wanted out of LAC was because they had a trade in place to acquire Carmelo (to go along with Griffin, Jordan, Crawford, etc.), and Rivers would have to be included to make salaries work. Doc said no.

Even if you think Carmelo would make no difference at the time, you had to take a chance, but Doc didn't let it happen solely because of his son. I don't blame CP3 and Reddick then. I bet even Blake wanted to leave at first, but come on, when they idiotically offer you 5/173M, of course you take it.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: nickagneta on May 06, 2018, 12:20:09 PM
I liked Terry Rozier from the start. Remembering having an discussion with someone, I think triboy, because I said Rozier had the higher upside, would be a much better player and was a much better shooter than RJ Hunter. This was just as Rozier's rookie season was starting and neither Rozier or Hunter had a great pre season. Remember taking some flack for that. Really glad Terry fulfilled his potential.

Funny before the season when the discussion came up about who you keep, Rozier or Smart, the answer seen on CB most often was Smart, because he is the better player. Now the answer is Smart because he will be cheaper and we can get more for Rozier on the open market because he is the better all around player.

Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: rondofan1255 on May 06, 2018, 12:29:12 PM
I liked Terry Rozier from the start. Remembering having an discussion with someone, I think triboy, because I said Rozier had the higher upside, would be a much better player and was a much better shooter than RJ Hunter. This was just as Rozier's rookie season was starting and neither Rozier or Hunter had a great pre season. Remember taking some flack for that. Really glad Terry fulfilled his potential.

Funny before the season when the discussion came up about who you keep, Rozier or Smart, the answer seen on CB most often was Smart, because he is the better player. Now the answer is Smart because he will be cheaper and we can get more for Rozier on the open market because he is the better all around player.

I found my initial post-2015 homer post about Terry. I later became a skeptic and thought he should have been traded for peanuts, so...

Surprised that the C's took him at 16.

I grew up a Louisville fan (hence my Rondo username from January 2008), and I watched him the past few seasons. This past season was a mess with Chris Jones at the PG slot for most of the season - the ball movement and chemistry was terrible for the most part while Chris was there (CJ is a ball hog), and the team took tons of  low-percentage shots at the end of the shot clock. Plus, he wasn't surrounded by shooters so the defenses would clog the paint and/or play lots of zone. Chinanu Onuaku (who just made the U19 team) mentioned that this past team was clique-ish. Anyways, they weren't fun to watch this past season, but I have believed in Terry's talent since he made great strides in his first year of prep school. Us homer-Cards fans thought he could become a lottery pick if he stayed longer. Last summer, he had a good summer showing at a few camps and improved his draft stock a lot. The season didn't do him too many favors.

Great guy, showed Trey Lewis (a 5th year transfer for this upcoming season) around campus, tough player. Would drive me crazy sometimes with his gimme layups and him mimicking D-Wade, but quite athletic.

He kind of had to be the offense for the Cards, whose offense was anemic (terrible production from the 5 spot in particular - like playing 4 on 5)...plenty of shots, contested shots (pull up jumpers)...can get those mid range pullups a la Wade up from anywhere, but it will be interesting in the NBA to see how he does. Guy plays with confidence and doesn't whine much (carries himself like a professional).

Like his midrange shooting, his 3 PT shooting is the one that's streaky. Rambling post here, but I wouldn't give this an F and overreact or call for Danny Ainge to be fired or anything like that.  ;)

 :D

Oh, and relentless with the on-ball defense. Got stronger before his sophomore season - before, he wouldn't venture into the lane and finish much. And pretty clutch as well - see the UC Irvine late game steal. The NCAA tournament games against NC St and Northern Iowa were him at his best.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Vox_Populi on May 06, 2018, 01:14:15 PM
I'm not sure of another player, recently, who has proven me as wrong as Rozier has.

Outside of draft picks (where I’m wrong all the time), Austin Rivers is the only other guy I can remember being completely wrong about. I thought he was complete garbage, but he turned into an okay rotation player.
Yeah, my opinion of young guys is usually elastic enough that I leave room to be surprised. Something like Oladipo becoming a legitimate star isn't expected, but to a certain extent you could see signs of it in retrospect.

Rozier's Playoff performance is, to me anyway, pretty much inexplicable unless you were already high on him to begin with.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: cman88 on May 06, 2018, 01:31:18 PM
I wonder how much of this is Brad stevens system and how much is Rozier? Obviously Rozier has talent and is making these shots on his own.

But this Brad stevens offense turned Isaiah Thomas into an MVP candidate. and kyrie Irving was having his most "efficient" season this year in Brads offense. brad is maximizing his players strengths while minimizing their weakness'
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: hodgy03038 on May 06, 2018, 01:43:11 PM
Not only is he making shots and assisting and rebounding but the "zero" turnover thing is epic.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: hodgy03038 on May 06, 2018, 02:19:28 PM
I was just thinking that what would be so cool is to see Brady show up at a Celts game to support them and be wearing a Drew Bledsoe jersey.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on May 06, 2018, 02:37:00 PM
Terry has one new fan

Drew Bledsoe.  ;D
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: triboy16f on May 06, 2018, 03:16:44 PM
Terry has one new fan

Drew Bledsoe.  ;D
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DcUXf8SXkAIuk0f.jpg)
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: bogg on May 07, 2018, 12:47:19 PM
I guess, but like Austin Rivers lucked out that his dad was coaching. If not, he's already out of the league.

I mean, it's possible that the Pelicans just weren't all that well-run. He stagnated in three seasons there but has gotten steadily better every year in LA. He's a decent rotation guard who isn't a wreck if you need him to start for you.

Apparently, part of the reason Reddick and CP3 wanted out of LAC was because they had a trade in place to acquire Carmelo (to go along with Griffin, Jordan, Crawford, etc.), and Rivers would have to be included to make salaries work. Doc said no.

Even if you think Carmelo would make no difference at the time, you had to take a chance, but Doc didn't let it happen solely because of his son. I don't blame CP3 and Reddick then. I bet even Blake wanted to leave at first, but come on, when they idiotically offer you 5/173M, of course you take it.

This has been disputed. Some people are adamant it happened, others have said that there were talks about Carmelo and the Clippers that feel apart for different reasons but turning it into "Doc made his kid untouchable" made for Grade-A clickbait (kind of like the "Danny Ainge refuses to discuss Rozier in any trade" after Boston declined to burn assets renting Serge Ibaka for a couple months before letting him walk). As far as I can tell Austin would have been well set-up to become one of the starting guards for the Knicks at the time, so I doubt that Doc just flat-out refused to discuss him. 
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Androslav on May 08, 2018, 02:19:55 AM
What is this?
We didn't bury-Terry (yet) on the blog after a subpar game 4?

For the record, I'd rather have Eric Bledsoe.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: vjcsmoke on May 08, 2018, 03:14:36 AM
What is this?
We didn't bury-Terry (yet) on the blog after a subpar game 4?

For the record, I'd rather have Eric Bledsoe.

Are you serious?  You'd rather have "Drew Bledsoe" over Scary Terry Rozier?  Rozier ran Bledsoe off the court in the Bucks series. 

Either there is something badly wrong with your 'eye' test or you're completely overreacting to one subpar playoff game.

Celtics will wrap this up in 5.  Terry, Tatum, and Horfod will play well again.  The only question is how are we going to match up against the Cavs and can we slow down Lebron in any way whatsoever.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: Androslav on May 08, 2018, 03:51:43 AM
What is this?
We didn't bury-Terry (yet) on the blog after a subpar game 4?

For the record, I'd rather have Eric Bledsoe.

Are you serious?  You'd rather have "Drew Bledsoe" over Scary Terry Rozier? Rozier ran Bledsoe off the court in the Bucks series. 

Either there is something badly wrong with your 'eye' test or you're completely overreacting to one subpar playoff game.

Celtics will wrap this up in 5.  Terry, Tatum, and Horford will play well again.  The only question is how are we going to match up against the Cavs and can we slow down Lebron in any way whatsoever.
No & no.
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: rondofan1255 on May 10, 2018, 12:16:56 PM
Quote
Yes, folks. That's Drew Bledsoe crashing the Game 5 press conference. Keep your eyes open for a new wine called Terry Rosé.

https://twitter.com/NESN/status/994418242344181760
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: rondofan1255 on May 15, 2018, 11:05:51 PM
Beasted in the 3rd?
Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: indeedproceed on May 22, 2018, 02:05:23 PM
Still here never left

Title: Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
Post by: rondofan1255 on May 26, 2018, 11:35:36 AM
Any word on his ankle?