CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: celticsclay on November 17, 2017, 02:24:24 PM
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Ingram has had a few nice moments this year, and I get they are both really young, but it is pretty tough to imagine that Brown doesn't have the better career based on the tools he has shown. What does everyone else think...
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Ingram is a joke. Bad defender, weak body. Looks like he lost weight from last year somehow. Shot is very inefficient. Also is predictable when driving he doesn't use his left hand I think. I read Lakers forums some fans want to get rid of him
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No, I would not trade Brown for Ingram right now. But that has much to do with me liking Brown’s personality as it does his play. From a who will be the better player for a decade point of view, I’d probably take Brown, but I think the difference is close enough that I could go either way.
It’s mostly Brown’s poise that puts me over the edge, not anything inherent with their physical abilities (which are both terrific).
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Yes.
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Hell no.
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The Lakers would.
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No, I would not trade Brown for Ingram right now. But that has much to do with me liking Brown’s personality as it does his play. From a who will be the better player for a decade point of view, I’d probably take Brown, but I think the difference is close enough that I could go either way.
It’s mostly Brown’s poise that puts me over the edge, not anything inherent with their physical abilities (which are both terrific).
I'm surprised at your answer. I will grant Ingram is 11 months younger, and he is posting nearly identical offensive output, albeit for a 6-9 team.
Brown is doing the same for a 14-2 team. Where they are different is that Brown has been fearless against the best competition in the league, plays with a a ferocious intensity, and is one of the best defenders in the NBA. He also clearly looks like a leader.
Neither player is close to a finished product, but right now, it doesn't seem that close to me.
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Love Brown, loved him since the draft where I wanted them to take him based off him having the highest potential n the board. Ingraham is like 11 months younger and has shown some flashes but I'd still take Brown if given the choice. That defense last night was unreal. Not many guys can steal the ball from Steph AND block a Durant jumper.
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No, I would not trade Brown for Ingram right now. But that has much to do with me liking Brown’s personality as it does his play. From a who will be the better player for a decade point of view, I’d probably take Brown, but I think the difference is close enough that I could go either way.
It’s mostly Brown’s poise that puts me over the edge, not anything inherent with their physical abilities (which are both terrific).
I'm surprised at your answer. I will grant Ingram is 11 months younger, and he is posting nearly identical offensive output, albeit for a 6-9 team.
Brown is doing the same for a 14-2 team. Where they are different is that Brown has been fearless against the best competition in the league, plays with a a ferocious intensity, and is one of the best defenders in the NBA. He also clearly looks like a leader.
Neither player is close to a finished product, but right now, it doesn't seem that close to me.
11 months is a lot of time, and that’s pretty much my point. Ingram this year looks better than Jaylen did last year, when their ages were more comparable. If you’re talking about trading one for the other, and are only looking at this year, Jaylen, all day. But if you’re thinking about who do you want over the course of their careers, I think it’s a toss up at this point.
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No, I would not trade Brown for Ingram right now. But that has much to do with me liking Brown’s personality as it does his play. From a who will be the better player for a decade point of view, I’d probably take Brown, but I think the difference is close enough that I could go either way.
It’s mostly Brown’s poise that puts me over the edge, not anything inherent with their physical abilities (which are both terrific).
I'm surprised at your answer. I will grant Ingram is 11 months younger, and he is posting nearly identical offensive output, albeit for a 6-9 team.
Brown is doing the same for a 14-2 team. Where they are different is that Brown has been fearless against the best competition in the league, plays with a a ferocious intensity, and is one of the best defenders in the NBA. He also clearly looks like a leader.
Neither player is close to a finished product, but right now, it doesn't seem that close to me.
11 months is a lot of time, and that’s pretty much my point. Ingram this year looks better than Jaylen did last year, when their ages were more comparable. If you’re talking about trading one for the other, and are only looking at this year, Jaylen, all day. But if you’re thinking about who do you want over the course of their careers, I think it’s a toss up at this point.
I think calling it a toss up is being a little kind of Brown. Not a lot, but a little. Ingram in my mind still projects as the better player long term. He has higher skill level, is very long (albeit skinny long), and as already stated, is younger.
I would not put that much stock in the performance of the teams; Jaylen starts and gets plenty of minutes.
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Brown’s physicality and his mindset – his Marcus Smart like determination to win against the best on the biggest stage – is pretty hard to replicate. I don’t know if Ingram has the same determination.
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No, I would not trade Brown for Ingram right now. But that has much to do with me liking Brown’s personality as it does his play. From a who will be the better player for a decade point of view, I’d probably take Brown, but I think the difference is close enough that I could go either way.
It’s mostly Brown’s poise that puts me over the edge, not anything inherent with their physical abilities (which are both terrific).
I'm surprised at your answer. I will grant Ingram is 11 months younger, and he is posting nearly identical offensive output, albeit for a 6-9 team.
Brown is doing the same for a 14-2 team. Where they are different is that Brown has been fearless against the best competition in the league, plays with a a ferocious intensity, and is one of the best defenders in the NBA. He also clearly looks like a leader.
Neither player is close to a finished product, but right now, it doesn't seem that close to me.
11 months is a lot of time, and that’s pretty much my point. Ingram this year looks better than Jaylen did last year, when their ages were more comparable. If you’re talking about trading one for the other, and are only looking at this year, Jaylen, all day. But if you’re thinking about who do you want over the course of their careers, I think it’s a toss up at this point.
I think calling it a toss up is being a little kind of Brown. Not a lot, but a little. Ingram in my mind still projects as the better player long term. He has higher skill level, is very long (albeit skinny long), and as already stated, is younger.
I would not put that much stock in the performance of the teams; Jaylen starts and gets plenty of minutes.
Guess it depends on your definition of a tossup. Mine is that it’s close enough for there to be no incentive to make the trade, but also I’d be fine with a deal if it happened (aside from the fact that I’ve liked Jaylen a ton personality-wise, since before he was drafted. That would sting).
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Love Brown, loved him since the draft where I wanted them to take him based off him having the highest potential n the board. Ingraham is like 11 months younger and has shown some flashes but I'd still take Brown if given the choice. That defense last night was unreal. Not many guys can steal the ball from Steph AND block a Durant jumper.
Jaylen was a huge reason that Klay had a terrible shooting night, and the only open looks Durant got was when Jaylen was well screened. He blanketed KD last night. He hounded DeRozan the other night. He's just been an absolute beast all season defensively. I said the night before the draft, this kid's ceiling is hyper athletic Kwahi Leonard, and could potentially be one of the best two way players in the league one day. Its only year two.
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Ingram is a joke. Bad defender, weak body. Looks like he lost weight from last year somehow. Shot is very inefficient. Also is predictable when driving he doesn't use his left hand I think. I read Lakers forums some fans want to get rid of him
Absurd. Ingram is a very nice prospect who wont turn 21 untill next September.
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Ask me in about 10 years.
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Ingram is nice player and is gonna be alot better. He has a nice shooting touch from all over the court. Above average bb IQ for age.
Brown is more of a defensive and physical player , just because he was gifted with a NBa body , Jaylens has the Kobe type gene , never give up , score score score. Hates like heck to loose....all the great ones are wired for competitiveness . Looks intense as all get out when he hit the court.
Brown is more old school Celtic , so i keep him.
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No. I laughed out loud thinking about it. I don't know what Sleepy Floyd looked like, but Ingram looks "sleepy" everytime I see him. Looks like a dude that gets hungry a lot and he still only weighs 149 pounds.
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I think it's close, but I go with Brown. The amount of improvement from the beginning of last year to now is astounding, and he's shown a certain swag and fearlessness (on both sides of the ball) that I just haven't seen from Ingram.
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I think I was wrong about Ingram; I thought that he was just a moron who could knock down 3s and had crazy length. He seems to be coming into his own, though, even showing better instincts on the defensive end. His ceiling looks to be a lot higher than, say, in March.
As has been mentioned, Jaylen has incredible intensity and a will to succeed like no other. His body is no slouch either. If a trade happened, I would be disappointed since I have become so invested in him. I don't see a world in which he doesn't succeed. Jaylen is electric - something I don't feel about Ingram.
I don't put much into the age argument. While Jaylen is 'older', they both have had the same amount of time developing at different levels through the years.
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Ingram looks like he blazing up before the games to me. Not saying he does that, but he looks like it. Some guys have sleepy eyes, I guess.
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wouldn't on draft day
wouldn't now
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Ingram looks like he blazing up before the games to me. Not saying he does that, but he looks like it. Some guys have sleepy eyes, I guess.
how does Brandon like his weed weights?
Ingrams
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Jaylen has a premium on the things that you cant teach.. No way do I make that trade..
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I think it's close, but I go with Brown. The amount of improvement from the beginning of last year to now is astounding, and he's shown a certain swag and fearlessness (on both sides of the ball) that I just haven't seen from Ingram.
This. But it's not all that close any more for me. Brown will be an impact player on both sides of the ball. He has some awesome sequences sometimes that might include a steal, a dunk, a block, and a 3pointer in a flurry. I love where he is now and he's going to improve a ton.
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Ingram is a joke. Bad defender, weak body. Looks like he lost weight from last year somehow. Shot is very inefficient. Also is predictable when driving he doesn't use his left hand I think. I read Lakers forums some fans want to get rid of him
I don't think you have to say this to choose our Jaylen (which I agree). Ingram will be a very good player when he polishes some minor flaws.
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Brown’s physicality and his mindset – his Marcus Smart like determination to win against the best on the biggest stage – is pretty hard to replicate. I don’t know if Ingram has the same determination.
TP Same for me here. You can't teach heart.
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Jaylen has a premium on the things that you cant teach.. No way do I make that trade..
Basically this.
I do think some circumstances matter. For example if Hayward were playing and if Lonzo Ball were better (he will be next year) then this is closer.
That said Jaylen has way more IT factor to me. A lot more. A lot more leadership
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Lol. .hell no
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No chance. I love the way Brown fits with this team way more than I would Ingram
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I probably would. Not confidence in Brown handles, feel,finishing and play making improving enough where it make a difference.
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Have loved Jaylen since we got to see his potential when he started last year for Bradley for those 10 games or so. I think he has a ceiling of being a Kawhi Leonard/Jimmy Butler hybrid all-star and top ten player in the league.
I just don't see Ingram having that potential due to his lackluster defensive intensity and really thin frame. So I will keep Brown, thank you.
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No, I would not trade Brown for Ingram right now. But that has much to do with me liking Brown’s personality as it does his play. From a who will be the better player for a decade point of view, I’d probably take Brown, but I think the difference is close enough that I could go either way.
It’s mostly Brown’s poise that puts me over the edge, not anything inherent with their physical abilities (which are both terrific).
I'm surprised at your answer. I will grant Ingram is 11 months younger, and he is posting nearly identical offensive output, albeit for a 6-9 team.
Brown is doing the same for a 14-2 team. Where they are different is that Brown has been fearless against the best competition in the league, plays with a a ferocious intensity, and is one of the best defenders in the NBA. He also clearly looks like a leader.
Neither player is close to a finished product, but right now, it doesn't seem that close to me.
11 months is a lot of time, and that’s pretty much my point. Ingram this year looks better than Jaylen did last year, when their ages were more comparable. If you’re talking about trading one for the other, and are only looking at this year, Jaylen, all day. But if you’re thinking about who do you want over the course of their careers, I think it’s a toss up at this point.
So should we be comparing Ingram to Tatum?
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Going into the draft last year I was terribly disappointed that we ended up with the #3 pick in what I was confident was a clear top two player (Simmons & Ingram) draft. A year later I think the only conversation should be "who would you want, Simmons or Brown". Ingram may be more offensively gifted than Jaylen but I do not think that anyone in last years draft has the heart and determination of Jaylen Brown. Jaylen is physical beast with a stone cold killer heart. I will take him over Ingram in a heart beat. We got lucky on this one.
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Kind of agree with the idea that Brown's attitude and energy has pushed him ahead of Ingram and into a tie with Simmons
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You don't trade a cobra(Brown) for a praying mantis(Ingram)
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Push.
It's worth noting that Brandon Ingram's defense actually rates as quite good this year - considerably ahead of his offense. So while I would take Brown over Ingram as a defensive player (and I think it'll stay that way), it's not a blowout.
Similarly, I'd take Ingram over Brown in terms of offensive potential, but it's not a blowout. A lot of Ingram's projection makes the assumption that he eventually becomes a good shooter, which he currently is not - struggles both from three and from the line. It may be fair to say that Ingram's greater responsibility in his offense depresses his stats, while Brown (thanks to superior surrounding talent and a superior coach) is generally allowed to stick to his strengths.
I like both players, and I think it's a very even comparison overall.
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I think everyone was pretty legit in this thread. Good job everyone. Cheers