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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Tr1boy on November 14, 2017, 06:32:58 PM

Title: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Tr1boy on November 14, 2017, 06:32:58 PM
http://www.nbcsports.com/boston/video/tanguay-i-might-not-trade-jayson-tatum-anthony-davis

Interesting topic that is building momentum. And who knows what is going on in Dannys head as well

The end question is....can a lineup of Davis, Horford, Hayward, Irving  (well no Hayward this season) ultimately win you championships?  beat Cavs and GSW right now?

Would you rather try to "go for it now"  or believe that this lineup still may fall short of the GSW and bet on the future instead?  (only 2-3 season away)

Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: SHAQATTACK on November 14, 2017, 06:35:53 PM
but

i can think of a few players i would and THE one Im absolutely not trading is Tatum . Period , end of story.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Tr1boy on November 14, 2017, 06:37:00 PM
Consider also....  how Danny views Smart development/contract demands

And that he doesn't want him to walk away for free by the end of this season.   

To trade him including Brown and future pick (example) for someone of Davis calibre (or at least All star player on a good long term contract)

After what happened this off season,  I will never trust Danny again  ;D
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Tr1boy on November 14, 2017, 06:41:19 PM
but

i can think of a few players i would and THE one Im absolutely not trading is Tatum . Period , end of story.

same here. Maybe Danny can leverage the 2018 Lakers pick instead

but you know that if the Pelicans are willing to make this trade , they will want a ton back. 

More Tatum + Brown and Smart as the third piece. Ultimately satisfied with Brown and Tatum

If three months ago, you asked me if Brown and Tatum could bring you back Davis. You make the trade in a heartbeat

Brown and Tatum , bring you back Leonard ...  in a heartbeat

Brown and Tatum (plus Smart) imo could bring you back someone special.... like anybody (if they were available)

What a tremendously difficult decision it would be still
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: PhoSita on November 14, 2017, 06:49:39 PM
I love me some Jayson Tatum, but let's be serious.  You wouldn't trade him for Anthony Davis?  Come on.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: CelticsElite on November 14, 2017, 06:50:34 PM
I love me some Jayson Tatum, but let's be serious.  You wouldn't trade him for Anthony Davis?  Come on.
the way Tatum outplays his contract has value itself. And Davis injury history has to be a consideration
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: gouki88 on November 14, 2017, 06:55:04 PM
I love me some Jayson Tatum, but let's be serious.  You wouldn't trade him for Anthony Davis?  Come on.
Straight up it'd be impossible to say no to.

But it wouldn't be straight up, which is why I'd be hesitant
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Monkhouse on November 14, 2017, 06:55:08 PM
Tatum is a great player and certainly has the potential to be top 20 kind of player, but AD is a top 15 player so there's that..
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Phantom255x on November 14, 2017, 07:01:09 PM
First off, lets take a moment to marvel at the fact that Gary Tanguay of all people just said he wouldn't trade someone on this current team for Anthony Davis (someone he ALWAYS loved)  :o

This is coming from a guy who thinks the Greek Freak could be available via trade (lol) and thought the C's should have given up LAL Pick in addition to everything else in the Kyrie trade (when CLE asked for "extra compensation").

I'll admit, I wouldn't trade Tatum for AD, but if it took something along the lines of Smart, Brown, LAL/SAC Pick + filler to acquire Davis, then count me in!

Thing is, I think Smart may end up getting paid a ton elsewhere (4/80M+), and between Brown and Tatum, I'd prefer Tatum to be honest.

But Pelicans are off to a good start and now have Rondo back, so I doubt Davis (or even rental Cousins) is getting dealt at the deadline, or next summer (if Pels have a good season overall)
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: More Banners on November 14, 2017, 07:13:16 PM
The guy doesn't know basketball. Surprised anyone here pays attention to him.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: SHAQATTACK on November 14, 2017, 07:28:50 PM
I love me some Jayson Tatum, but let's be serious.  You wouldn't trade him for Anthony Davis?  Come on.

Maybe in one for one type thing I guess and picks .......But no way Smart and Brown are thrown in ....absolutely NOT ......

I d be like Brown and Smart and picks     ......or Tatum and picks ...is the best I do.

Tatum needs to retire a Celtic.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: footey on November 14, 2017, 07:29:04 PM
The guy doesn't know basketball. Surprised anyone here pays attention to him.

Blind squirrel gets a nut 🥜 every now and then.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: ETNCeltics on November 14, 2017, 07:37:04 PM
I would trade Tatum for Davis straight up, of course. But I wouldn't trade our potentially good picks and Brown + Tatum for Davis. You trade all that you're giving away your potential for real improvement. So if Davis/Kyrie/Hayward isn't good enough to win a title, we're stuck.

Personally, I'm in favor of keeping Tatum and Brown, barring something extraordinary. There is nothing like the sweet taste of victory with guys raised up on your team vs. a roster full of rent-a-players.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Celtics4ever on November 14, 2017, 07:44:27 PM
Tanguay will never ever be a GM or a person that GMs listen too.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Csfan1984 on November 14, 2017, 07:48:22 PM
I'd think if you kept Tatum or Brown then you deal. Giving up both is rough
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Sixth Man on November 14, 2017, 08:28:47 PM
I love me some Jayson Tatum, but let's be serious.  You wouldn't trade him for Anthony Davis?  Come on.

Absolutely NOT.  We now have all the pieces we need to compete for championships going forward.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Monkhouse on November 14, 2017, 08:37:07 PM
I love me some Jayson Tatum, but let's be serious.  You wouldn't trade him for Anthony Davis?  Come on.

Absolutely NOT.  We now have all the pieces we need to compete for championships going forward.

Irving, Smart, Horford, Davis, and Hayward is not a championship team to you?

So tell me what you think is the best method, or plan of going through? I would like to keep the youngsters. We could certainly have a dynasty on our hands, for quite a long time.

Davis is certainly the cream of the prop in prospects, and the possible superstar the Celtics have been waiting for.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Boris Badenov on November 14, 2017, 08:39:50 PM
The guy doesn't know basketball. Surprised anyone here pays attention to him.

Blind squirrel gets a nut 🥜 every now and then.

That is an insult to blind squirrels everywhere.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: liam on November 14, 2017, 09:03:39 PM
Salaries don't match...
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Erik on November 14, 2017, 09:13:01 PM
2021. I remember people saying to trade for Hayward as well. Don't give up anything for him. Let the kids develop and sign him in 2021 after horford takes vet min.

You thought GSW is a superteam? That team won't lose 5 games. And they could have a title by then already.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Roy H. on November 14, 2017, 09:15:46 PM
I love me some Jayson Tatum, but let's be serious.  You wouldn't trade him for Anthony Davis?  Come on.
Straight up it'd be impossible to say no to.

But it wouldn't be straight up, which is why I'd be hesitant

Yeah, it depends on what is needed for “filler”, but if it was realistically possible to keep Horford, Kyrie and Hayward while adding Davis, you’d have to do it.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Phantom255x on November 14, 2017, 09:15:49 PM
Salaries don't match...

That's the unfortunate thing in all of this.  :(
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Roy H. on November 14, 2017, 09:17:51 PM
I love me some Jayson Tatum, but let's be serious.  You wouldn't trade him for Anthony Davis?  Come on.

Absolutely NOT.  We now have all the pieces we need to compete for championships going forward.

What’s Tatum’s upside? Granger? Pierce? PG13?

Taking emotion out of it, I’d trade any of them for Davis.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: trickybilly on November 14, 2017, 09:23:28 PM
Wrong Thread
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Phantom255x on November 14, 2017, 09:42:34 PM
I love me some Jayson Tatum, but let's be serious.  You wouldn't trade him for Anthony Davis?  Come on.
Straight up it'd be impossible to say no to.

But it wouldn't be straight up, which is why I'd be hesitant

Yeah, it depends on what is needed for “filler”, but if it was realistically possible to keep Horford, Kyrie and Hayward while adding Davis, you’d have to do it.

Salary-matching is a big issue unfortunately.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Csfan1984 on November 14, 2017, 11:50:59 PM
I love me some Jayson Tatum, but let's be serious.  You wouldn't trade him for Anthony Davis?  Come on.

Absolutely NOT.  We now have all the pieces we need to compete for championships going forward.

What’s Tatum’s upside? Granger? Pierce? PG13?

Taking emotion out of it, I’d trade any of them for Davis.
The way Tatum is playing year one his upside could be KD level. Would you do KD for Davis? I wouldn't.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Fafnir on November 14, 2017, 11:54:18 PM
Yeah you still hand over all the kids for Davis, assuming he wants to come here and sign another contract. He's that good already and only 24.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Chief Macho on November 15, 2017, 12:05:10 AM
I hate his injury history and body type lasting a long career.  He will eventually have foot problems and that will be it. 

Also, why doesnt he win more?  Wasnt Lebron winning more?  I dont feel he is that franchise changing.   But also,  i cant believe tatums ability to score at crunch time at the end of games.  Seriously,  whats his ceiling?   I think its arguably higher than Davis
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: CelticsElite on November 15, 2017, 12:16:54 AM
I hate his injury history and body type lasting a long career.  He will eventually have foot problems and that will be it. 

Also, why doesnt he win more?  Wasnt Lebron winning more?  I dont feel he is that franchise changing.   But also,  i cant believe tatums ability to score at crunch time at the end of games.  Seriously,  whats his ceiling?   I think its arguably higher than Davis
anthony Davis is one of my favorite players but you make a fair point about his winning. If he was such a. Game changing player, why don't they ever make noise or even play the playoffs? There's some stats showing the team sometimes plays better with cousins without davis on the floor
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Fafnir on November 15, 2017, 12:22:58 AM
I read similar arguments about not trading for a 31 year old KG who couldn't get his teams to the playoffs the last two years. Anthony Davis is that caliber of player, MVP level talent, right now and he's only 24.

He definitely gets banged, but he still plays enough for me to to stress about it too much.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Fafnir on November 15, 2017, 12:25:55 AM
I hate his injury history and body type lasting a long career.  He will eventually have foot problems and that will be it. 

Also, why doesnt he win more?  Wasnt Lebron winning more?  I dont feel he is that franchise changing.   But also,  i cant believe tatums ability to score at crunch time at the end of games.  Seriously,  whats his ceiling?   I think its arguably higher than Davis
anthony Davis is one of my favorite players but you make a fair point about his winning. If he was such a. Game changing player, why don't they ever make noise or even play the playoffs? There's some stats showing the team sometimes plays better with cousins without davis on the floor
Cousins PPG/RPG/etc are crazy good, but he also turns it over a ton and fouls. His overall efficiency isn't elite.

Davis has played better than him this year still by a wide margin, and I think Cousins has been playing pretty great.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Phantom255x on November 15, 2017, 12:29:18 AM
Dang, I voted "No" on this poll too btw, but I bet you if this was asked a few months ago (August-September), this would be lopsided in favor of "yes".  :P
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Fafnir on November 15, 2017, 12:32:22 AM
Dang, I voted "No" on this poll too btw, but I bet you if this was asked a few months ago (August-September), this would be lopsided in favor of "yes".  :P
Of course, a lot of people in Boston didn't like the KG trade because the loved/believed in Big Al so much.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Phantom255x on November 15, 2017, 12:36:34 AM
Dang, I voted "No" on this poll too btw, but I bet you if this was asked a few months ago (August-September), this would be lopsided in favor of "yes".  :P
Of course, a lot of people in Boston didn't like the KG trade because the loved/believed in Big Al so much.

Trust me, if they pulled off "another KG deal" with Anthony Davis here and they traded away Tatum, I'll be sobbing in my bed.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Androslav on November 15, 2017, 01:19:19 AM
Dang, I voted "No" on this poll too btw, but I bet you if this was asked a few months ago (August-September), this would be lopsided in favor of "yes".  :P
Of course, a lot of people in Boston didn't like the KG trade because the loved/believed in Big Al so much.
That explains a lot.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: ImShakHeIsShaq on November 15, 2017, 01:33:06 AM
I'll go with whatever DA decides is best. He's not always right but he sure as heck knows/does better than most!
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: colincb on November 15, 2017, 01:42:34 AM
Dang, I voted "No" on this poll too btw, but I bet you if this was asked a few months ago (August-September), this would be lopsided in favor of "yes".  :P
Of course, a lot of people in Boston didn't like the KG trade because the loved/believed in Big Al so much.

Not my recollection of the general reaction to the KG trade.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: CelticSooner on November 15, 2017, 02:02:17 AM
Wow what a great problem to have  ;D I can see an argument either way. Strength in numbers or having another superstar added to the team. It may suit the C’s to better to let the young guns continue to develop if GS stars take less money like they say they will.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: SparzWizard on November 15, 2017, 02:19:49 AM
Pelicans traded Buddy Hield for Cousins.

Ainge should've packaged something like Smart/Rozier/Celtics pick for Cousins so AD wouldn't be in the discussions these days.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Tr1boy on November 15, 2017, 02:24:03 AM
I love me some Jayson Tatum, but let's be serious.  You wouldn't trade him for Anthony Davis?  Come on.

Absolutely NOT.  We now have all the pieces we need to compete for championships going forward.

What’s Tatum’s upside? Granger? Pierce? PG13?

Taking emotion out of it, I’d trade any of them for Davis.
The way Tatum is playing year one his upside could be KD level. Would you do KD for Davis? I wouldn't.

Not sure about KD level... PG13 level...sure

Tonight again, marvelous game.clutch buckets

18ppg with 2 clutch buckets is becoming the norm

Thursdays game will be a big test for Tatum and the Celts
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: GreenEnvy on November 15, 2017, 02:26:08 AM
Tatum is the perfect modern NBA talent. He reminds me of Kawhi a little bit. I don’t know if he could be THAT good on both ends of the floor but the talent is there.

Would I trade him straight up for AD? Reluctantly, yes. But would I add in multiple assets such as Brown, Smart, Lakers/Kings 1st? Nope.

Everyone who watches the kid play comes away impressed. He’s 19! When he hits his prime, watch out.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Androslav on November 15, 2017, 02:29:46 AM
Voted No.
I wouldn't give very possibly 2 future all-stars and a starter for Davis.
Not that Davis isn't worth a lot, just that it is too much also considering his durability issues.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: iadera on November 15, 2017, 02:51:53 AM
So far seen Tatum is our future, full stop. But, how about Brown + Hayward for AD?!   :)
Giving Hayward should leave Smart out of it.

Kyrie
Smart
Tatum
Horford
AD



Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: jdz101 on November 15, 2017, 05:50:03 AM
If Tatum keeps this up he's having a stronger 19 year old rookie season than Kevin Durant.

You don't trade that bar of gold bullion for anything.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Roy H. on November 15, 2017, 06:10:17 AM
Dang, I voted "No" on this poll too btw, but I bet you if this was asked a few months ago (August-September), this would be lopsided in favor of "yes".  :P
Of course, a lot of people in Boston didn't like the KG trade because the loved/believed in Big Al so much.

Not my recollection of the general reaction to the KG trade.

The polling before the trade showed that fans were very against a KG trade if Big Al was included.  That was both here and on the Globe’s website.

After the trade actually happened, fans were ecstatic.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Vermont Green on November 15, 2017, 09:24:17 AM
The poll was trading Tatum AND Brown AND Smart.  I would probably be willing to include Tatum in a trade to get Davis but I would not trade all three.  Davis IS an elite talent, no doubt about it.  Tatum COULD be an elite talent.  That is the big difference right now.

Remember, even in the KG trade, Danny would not include Rondo along with everything else.  To get Davis, you are going to have to overpay (or at least it will feel that way at the time), just like it felt like we overpaid for Kyrie and many felt we overpaid for KG.  There is a limit though.

Say the trade is Tatum, Smart, Lakers pick, and I don't know, Ojeleye.  That is still a nice haul for NOP but we are left with a team of Kyrie, Brown, Davis to build around (along with Horford and Hayward of course).  I suspect many will say "overpay" but I am OK with that based on the team would would have to move forward with.  I bet NOP does not do it though, why would they trade Davis.  That is the real question.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: kozlodoev on November 15, 2017, 09:37:46 AM
I'm not prepared to trade Tatum yet. His ceiling is anywhere from Tobias Harris to a 12-year franchise cornerstone.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Roy H. on November 15, 2017, 09:42:50 AM
I'm not prepared to trade Tatum yet. His ceiling is anywhere from Tobias Harris to a 12-year franchise cornerstone.

I agree. But, Davis’ floor seems to be a 10 year franchise cornerstone.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Fafnir on November 15, 2017, 09:50:29 AM
Dang, I voted "No" on this poll too btw, but I bet you if this was asked a few months ago (August-September), this would be lopsided in favor of "yes".  :P
Of course, a lot of people in Boston didn't like the KG trade because the loved/believed in Big Al so much.

Not my recollection of the general reaction to the KG trade.
KG trade season lasted a long time, given he spiked a deal for sure pre-draft and the rumors ran all summer.

I was just a lurker back then but I remember a lot of debate if giving up Big Als career was worth 3-5 years of old KG.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: timpiker on November 15, 2017, 09:53:40 AM
I'd like Davis but not for Tatum or Brown.  Those guys are keepers.  Period.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: jpotter33 on November 15, 2017, 10:00:06 AM
Don't think you can justify trading all three (plus more salary and picks) for Davis at the moment. That'd absolutely kill our depth and make us so top heavy that our bench and young talent would be depleted. That'd be putting a TON of eggs into one basket, which I'm not sure is smart.

However, this summer I'd probably do something like a Smart S&T, Tatum, and the LA pick and Memphis pick for Davis, which would leave us Brown and Rozier. A Kyrie, Brown, Hayward, Davis, and Horford starting five is insane, and we'd have a solid bench with Rozier, Morris, Theis, Baynes, and whatever ring-chasing vets we could get.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: The One on November 15, 2017, 10:05:55 AM
Dang, I voted "No" on this poll too btw, but I bet you if this was asked a few months ago (August-September), this would be lopsided in favor of "yes".  :P
Of course, a lot of people in Boston didn't like the KG trade because the loved/believed in Big Al so much.

Not my recollection of the general reaction to the KG trade.

The polling before the trade showed that fans were very against a KG trade if Big Al was included.  That was both here and on the Globe’s website.

After the trade actually happened, fans were ecstatic.

Hey Roy...kind of like the Kyrie one, right?  ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: johnnygreen on November 15, 2017, 11:19:14 AM
Every time I see Tatum play, I'm always impressed by how smooth and under control he is offensively. I also love how he is willing and able to play down low on both sides of the ball, and seems to be a very good rebounder. I also keep on thinking the same thing after seeing Tatum play every game, that I wouldn't trade him.

In today's NBA with position-less basketball and three point ability, Tatum may be the closest thing to Durant, who happens to be the gold standard. At 19, his shooting splits are 50/50/83.

I know its early in the season, and something like trading for Davis needs to be evaluated based on how this year plays out. However, with a 19 year old rookie and 21 year old sophomore in the starting lineup, the Celtics are still managing to be the best defensive team in the league, and are also near the top in rebounding. These kids are only going to get better too. If this trend of defense and rebounding keeps up for the season, then what would Davis do to help improve the team?
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: loco_91 on November 15, 2017, 01:07:50 PM
I'd trade Tatum for Davis, but Tatum and Brown and Smart-- that's getting costly.

AD is awesome, but he hasn't performed at an MVP level since the '14-'15 season. We're still talking about a future HOFer, but AD no longer appears to be destined for Garnett-level greatness.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Sixth Man on November 15, 2017, 01:24:33 PM
I love me some Jayson Tatum, but let's be serious.  You wouldn't trade him for Anthony Davis?  Come on.

Absolutely NOT.  We now have all the pieces we need to compete for championships going forward.

Irving, Smart, Horford, Davis, and Hayward is not a championship team to you?

So tell me what you think is the best method, or plan of going through? I would like to keep the youngsters. We could certainly have a dynasty on our hands, for quite a long time.

Davis is certainly the cream of the prop in prospects, and the possible superstar the Celtics have been waiting for.

That's a fine starting five, maybe best in the NBA, but you wouldn't have any bench behind them, so forget about winning a title that way.  Brown and Tatum are on rookie deals for several seasons, and Davis, a great player, is quite injury prone and on a significant contract. 
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Sixth Man on November 15, 2017, 01:26:37 PM
I love me some Jayson Tatum, but let's be serious.  You wouldn't trade him for Anthony Davis?  Come on.

Absolutely NOT.  We now have all the pieces we need to compete for championships going forward.

What’s Tatum’s upside? Granger? Pierce? PG13?

Taking emotion out of it, I’d trade any of them for Davis.

PG13.  Davis is a bona-fide superstar, but he costs much much more under the cap for the next four seasons and has proven to be injury-prone.  Barring injury, Tatum will be an equivalent talent in time. 
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Moranis on November 15, 2017, 01:51:59 PM
I love me some Jayson Tatum, but let's be serious.  You wouldn't trade him for Anthony Davis?  Come on.

Absolutely NOT.  We now have all the pieces we need to compete for championships going forward.

Irving, Smart, Horford, Davis, and Hayward is not a championship team to you?

So tell me what you think is the best method, or plan of going through? I would like to keep the youngsters. We could certainly have a dynasty on our hands, for quite a long time.

Davis is certainly the cream of the prop in prospects, and the possible superstar the Celtics have been waiting for.

That's a fine starting five, maybe best in the NBA, but you wouldn't have any bench behind them, so forget about winning a title that way.  Brown and Tatum are on rookie deals for several seasons, and Davis, a great player, is quite injury prone and on a significant contract.
You add the bench in free agency this summer (since you know you won't have Hayward till the summer anyway).  And the team would still have Morris, Rozier, Yabu, Semi, Baynes (if they re-signed him), etc., plus whomever it might acquire with the DPE and whatever draft picks it still has.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Monkhouse on November 15, 2017, 02:03:00 PM
I love me some Jayson Tatum, but let's be serious.  You wouldn't trade him for Anthony Davis?  Come on.

Absolutely NOT.  We now have all the pieces we need to compete for championships going forward.

Irving, Smart, Horford, Davis, and Hayward is not a championship team to you?

So tell me what you think is the best method, or plan of going through? I would like to keep the youngsters. We could certainly have a dynasty on our hands, for quite a long time.

Davis is certainly the cream of the prop in prospects, and the possible superstar the Celtics have been waiting for.

That's a fine starting five, maybe best in the NBA, but you wouldn't have any bench behind them, so forget about winning a title that way.  Brown and Tatum are on rookie deals for several seasons, and Davis, a great player, is quite injury prone and on a significant contract.

That's why we have ring chasers lol...
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: chiken Green on November 15, 2017, 03:18:54 PM
If Tatum turns out to be what it looks like.. we Can have Davis in 2 years.. the same way we got AL and Gordon..  Guys want to play with a stud for a winning organization with a winning coach.... Just be patient.

We need to stop looking at Tatum as just a piece.. He is a legit Building block not a chip but a piece.  That's what it looks like.  Guys are going to want to play with him.

Ohhh wait.. ALL that for DAVIS.. MAN... "hang up the phone!"



Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Moranis on November 15, 2017, 04:37:55 PM
If Tatum turns out to be what it looks like.. we Can have Davis in 2 years.. the same way we got AL and Gordon..  Guys want to play with a stud for a winning organization with a winning coach.... Just be patient.

We need to stop looking at Tatum as just a piece.. He is a legit Building block not a chip but a piece.  That's what it looks like.  Guys are going to want to play with him.

Ohhh wait.. ALL that for DAVIS.. MAN... "hang up the phone!"
No cap space in two years
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Tr1boy on November 15, 2017, 05:07:27 PM
I'd like Davis but not for Tatum or Brown.  Those guys are keepers.  Period.

what about for Leonard... would you?
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: jay on November 15, 2017, 05:13:27 PM
To me the trade would be:

Brown or Tatum
Smart
Morris
Baynes
LAL/SAC pick
Clippers pick

That is a king's ransom already. No way we could give up Brown AND Tatum. I would prefer to give them Brown, but I would trade either one for AD. Come on it's AD.

Starting 5 (best in basketball) would be Kyrie, Hayward, Tatum, AD, Horford. Thats ridiculous. Bench would be Rozier, Ojeleye, Theis, and Yabusele. Would need to add a couple of ring chasers next year, but good gracious.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Tr1boy on November 15, 2017, 05:14:22 PM
63 No and 12 Yes lol

lopsided

BUT don't forget , that there is a good chance, Smart won't be back next season

With that  comes an opportunity to do a sign and trade + Brown + future pick to get a really really good player on a digestible contract (if signed 1 or 2 years ago)

Danny saw an addition by subtraction by letting Olynyk walk....but not sure he will feel the same with Smart

OTHERWISE... in order to keep Smart at 15-17 million per season,  I can see him clearing house (meaning bye Rozier,  Yabu,  no Baynes, maybe even trade Morris)  ... and fill the roster with Semi like ready 2nd round talents. 

We will see what happens
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: csfansince60s on November 15, 2017, 05:19:31 PM
No for two reasons:

1. the cost would be too high

2. Davis' durability is a huge question mark for me.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Phantom255x on November 15, 2017, 06:14:35 PM
I'd like Davis but not for Tatum or Brown.  Those guys are keepers.  Period.

what about for Leonard... would you?

No. And this is coming from someone who LOVES Leonard and actually thinks he's a tad bit underrated in this league (definitely Top-3 in my books).
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: ETNCeltics on November 15, 2017, 06:27:44 PM
IMO, KL is the best player in the world, when healthy. And "when healthy" is becoming a bit of a factor with him. He's only played 70 games twice, and isn't going to yet again this year.

He's the best 2 way player in the game. LBJ could be a defensive stud as well, but he doesn't make that kind of effort. Leonard literally does everything well, without needing the ball in his hand constantly. His defensive effort is probably a big reason that LBJ has generally been healthy and KL has had issues. Well, that and Pachulia.

But giving up JB, JT, and a high pick for him? No way. I don't trust his durability. About there with AD as well. From watching Tatum, I think there's a very good chance we're discussing 5 years from now whether or not Tatum is in that stratosphere. He very well may be.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: vjcsmoke on November 15, 2017, 09:21:01 PM
Tatum is a keeper.  His ceiling has no limit.  He's already the best shooter in his rookie class from 3 point land, and this is just his first year.  He's just going to get stronger as he grows into his body, puts some weight and muscle on himself.

Just food for thought -- as of 11/15/17
Tatum is top 10 in the NBA at 3pt% at 48.9%
Tatum is top 10 in Points per shot at 1.50
Tatum is also the 8th youngest NBA player out of all active players...

Yeah, I'm not giving up on that type of talent and upside this soon in Tatum's career!

I would consider a package of Brown, the 2018 Lakers pick, and say Smart.  But I'm not giving up Tatum.

This is interesting discussion, but likely not ever going to happen though.

I like our length and athleticism with Brown at 2 and Tatum at 3.  I'm not willing to give up both of them for Davis.

Another big barrier is making salaries match.  Celtics would have to somehow get about 8-10m more in salary.  And let's say we sign someone with Gordon's exception.  Wouldn't we have to wait until we turned around and flipped that person in a trade for Davis?  Don't know if anything is even possible this year even if Pelicans were willing to deal because the Celtics are so cap strapped.

Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on November 15, 2017, 10:44:53 PM
I think Tatum is a keeper, and Brown might well be too.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Eja117 on November 15, 2017, 10:46:18 PM
This is like saying rookie Grant Hill, 3rd year Tracy McGrady, and first year Tony Allen for Anthony Davis.


Nooooooooo waaaayyyyy
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Moranis on November 16, 2017, 12:48:39 PM
This is like saying rookie Grant Hill, 3rd year Tracy McGrady, and first year Tony Allen for Anthony Davis.


Nooooooooo waaaayyyyy
except you have no idea if Brown and Tatum are actually going to turn into Hill and McGrady.  And frankly, I might trade a very young Hill and a young McGrady for a just about to enter his prime Davis.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: GreenEnvy on November 16, 2017, 01:02:29 PM
This is like saying rookie Grant Hill, 3rd year Tracy McGrady, and first year Tony Allen for Anthony Davis.


Nooooooooo waaaayyyyy
except you have no idea if Brown and Tatum are actually going to turn into Hill and McGrady.  And frankly, I might trade a very young Hill and a young McGrady for a just about to enter his prime Davis.

Maybe in hindsight, because of Hill’s injuries and TMac’s inability to lead.

One was a scoring champ and the other was an all-around stud. Both perennial All-NBA.

That’s an awfully bold statement for a guy like Davis who hasn’t exactly done all that much other than put up some gaudy stats on terrible teams. I don’t care how young he is, zero playoff wins this deep into his career is rather lackluster.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: kozlodoev on November 16, 2017, 01:05:50 PM
This is like saying rookie Grant Hill, 3rd year Tracy McGrady, and first year Tony Allen for Anthony Davis.


Nooooooooo waaaayyyyy
except you have no idea if Brown and Tatum are actually going to turn into Hill and McGrady.  And frankly, I might trade a very young Hill and a young McGrady for a just about to enter his prime Davis.
And you have no idea whether Davis will turn into a deja vu of Bill Walton's career. Two can play this game.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: kraidstar on November 16, 2017, 01:25:54 PM
This is like saying rookie Grant Hill, 3rd year Tracy McGrady, and first year Tony Allen for Anthony Davis.


Nooooooooo waaaayyyyy
except you have no idea if Brown and Tatum are actually going to turn into Hill and McGrady.  And frankly, I might trade a very young Hill and a young McGrady for a just about to enter his prime Davis.

Assuming Davis is a playoff winner, I might too.

We only have space for about 3 max contracts, so that money needs to go to the best stars possible. Once those theoretical players were due for max deals we'd be in trouble, though they'd be a bargain on their rookie contracts. Guys of McGrady and Hill's caliber aren't quite good enough to form 2/3 of a championship core. Having Davis take up just one max slot would give us better cap flexibility.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Moranis on November 16, 2017, 01:45:34 PM
This is like saying rookie Grant Hill, 3rd year Tracy McGrady, and first year Tony Allen for Anthony Davis.


Nooooooooo waaaayyyyy
except you have no idea if Brown and Tatum are actually going to turn into Hill and McGrady.  And frankly, I might trade a very young Hill and a young McGrady for a just about to enter his prime Davis.
And you have no idea whether Davis will turn into a deja vu of Bill Walton's career. Two can play this game.
Except we do know Davis has performed at an All NBA level (along with All Defense) for multiple seasons with a top 5 MVP finish (along with another top 10 finish) and who is still just 24 years old. 
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: kozlodoev on November 16, 2017, 01:51:27 PM
This is like saying rookie Grant Hill, 3rd year Tracy McGrady, and first year Tony Allen for Anthony Davis.


Nooooooooo waaaayyyyy
except you have no idea if Brown and Tatum are actually going to turn into Hill and McGrady.  And frankly, I might trade a very young Hill and a young McGrady for a just about to enter his prime Davis.
And you have no idea whether Davis will turn into a deja vu of Bill Walton's career. Two can play this game.
Except we do know Davis has performed at an All NBA level (along with All Defense) for multiple seasons with a top 5 MVP finish (along with another top 10 finish) and who is still just 24 years old.
Sure. When Bill Walton was 24, he lead the NBA in blocks and rebounds and won a championship. The common thing between Walton and Davis is that they tend to miss a lot of games every season because they're banged up.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Moranis on November 16, 2017, 01:53:14 PM
This is like saying rookie Grant Hill, 3rd year Tracy McGrady, and first year Tony Allen for Anthony Davis.


Nooooooooo waaaayyyyy
except you have no idea if Brown and Tatum are actually going to turn into Hill and McGrady.  And frankly, I might trade a very young Hill and a young McGrady for a just about to enter his prime Davis.

Maybe in hindsight, because of Hill’s injuries and TMac’s inability to lead.

One was a scoring champ and the other was an all-around stud. Both perennial All-NBA.

That’s an awfully bold statement for a guy like Davis who hasn’t exactly done all that much other than put up some gaudy stats on terrible teams. I don’t care how young he is, zero playoff wins this deep into his career is rather lackluster.
It is, but he can't help the crappy team he was drafted to either.  I mean Garnett didn't win a playoff series until his 9th season when he was 27 and then didn't even make the playoffs again after that until year 13 when he won the title with Boston.  So one of the best PF's ever wasn't even able to lead his team to the playoffs when he was 28, 29, or 30 i.e. the prime of his career.

Grant Hill never won a playoff series in Detroit (i.e. before he was injured).  TMac didn't win a playoff game until year 4 (his 1st in Orlando) and he never won a single playoff series in his entire career (including his prime when he was playing with Yao). 

I'd rather take my chances with Davis.  The guy who is already better than Hill or McGrady ever were and who you know what he will end up as (barring injury since anyone could get hurt). 
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Moranis on November 16, 2017, 01:57:00 PM
This is like saying rookie Grant Hill, 3rd year Tracy McGrady, and first year Tony Allen for Anthony Davis.


Nooooooooo waaaayyyyy
except you have no idea if Brown and Tatum are actually going to turn into Hill and McGrady.  And frankly, I might trade a very young Hill and a young McGrady for a just about to enter his prime Davis.
And you have no idea whether Davis will turn into a deja vu of Bill Walton's career. Two can play this game.
Except we do know Davis has performed at an All NBA level (along with All Defense) for multiple seasons with a top 5 MVP finish (along with another top 10 finish) and who is still just 24 years old.
Sure. When Bill Walton was 24, he lead the NBA in blocks and rebounds and won a championship. The common thing between Walton and Davis is that they tend to miss a lot of games every season because they're banged up.
Centers always miss games though (see Shaq, the Dream, TD, etc.).  And Walton entered the league basically injured.  He was never healthy and never played more than 67 games until his 80 game 6th man season in Boston.  Walton only played 468 games in his entire career.  Davis is already at 349 and still isn't 25.  They just aren't comparable. 
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Tr1boy on November 19, 2017, 01:11:36 PM


Tatum and Brown are keepers

Celts set for the next 10 seasons
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Phantom255x on November 19, 2017, 01:13:44 PM
Davis injured for some time again with a concussion.

Starting to look injury-prone honestly.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Eddie20 on November 19, 2017, 01:42:45 PM
Davis injured for some time again with a concussion.

Starting to look injury-prone honestly.

He's probable for tomorrow.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: blink on November 19, 2017, 01:48:52 PM
no way I trade Tatum, Brown and Smart for Davis.  Next season we literally might have 5 starters playing at an all-star level.   Why should we trade two of them away when their ceilings are getting higher literally every day?

Why would NO trade Davis at this point?  They seem to be improving...
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Darío SpanishFan on November 19, 2017, 02:19:03 PM
Davis injured for some time again with a concussion.

Starting to look injury-prone honestly.

I don't think you can say somebody is injury-prone because he is hit in his head.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Atzar on November 19, 2017, 02:21:06 PM
Based on basketball ability, I would trade Tatum for Davis and it wouldn't hurt my feelings.  If Tatum turns into 75% of the player Davis already is, we'd all be doing backflips. 

But Davis gets injured reading the menu at his favorite restaurant.  And it never ends up being major, but I'd always worry about how much basketball we'd end up getting out of him - whether those minor injuries would start to add up.  Repeat concussions are not a good thing.  That said, it wouldn't stop me from making the move.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: moiso on November 19, 2017, 02:34:01 PM
Davis injured for some time again with a concussion.

Starting to look injury-prone honestly.
It wasn’t a concussion.  He was negative for that.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Smokeeye123 on November 19, 2017, 02:45:53 PM
I love me some Jayson Tatum, but let's be serious.  You wouldn't trade him for Anthony Davis?  Come on.

Obviously Davis is much better but would we a better team if we also had to trade Brown and Smart? It's more of a salary thing. If there was no salary and it didnt matter obviously you make this trade.

I think Danny is hoping the Lakers or Kings pick can net him PF/C on the same level as Brown or Tatum to help maximize talent under the salary cap.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Eja117 on November 19, 2017, 02:50:13 PM
This is like saying rookie Grant Hill, 3rd year Tracy McGrady, and first year Tony Allen for Anthony Davis.


Nooooooooo waaaayyyyy
except you have no idea if Brown and Tatum are actually going to turn into Hill and McGrady.  And frankly, I might trade a very young Hill and a young McGrady for a just about to enter his prime Davis.
Two hall of famers for A Davis?  I'll keep the 20 year olds powering their team to the best record in the NBA thanks.
Ask Golden State who's better.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Smokeeye123 on November 19, 2017, 02:52:33 PM
I love me some Jayson Tatum, but let's be serious.  You wouldn't trade him for Anthony Davis?  Come on.

Absolutely NOT.  We now have all the pieces we need to compete for championships going forward.

What’s Tatum’s upside? Granger? Pierce? PG13?

Taking emotion out of it, I’d trade any of them for Davis.

You are taking emotion AND Salary cap rules out of it though... If you want to trade for Davis and keep Horford/Hayward/Irving you have to include Smart, Brown, Morris, and Tatum. You may be able to keep either Smart or Morris but then youd be trading a combination of players like Yabusele/Nader/Rozier/Ojeleye, etc.

To be completely honest it would be better to try and add a player like Horford or Hayward with Tatum to not gut your team as much. (Obviously trading Hayward would be a PR disaster and would never happen)


My ideal trade would involve receiving a top 3 pick (Preferably #2) from LAL/SAC and offering the following...

BOS Trades:
(1) Jayson Tatum
(2) Al Horford
(3) The number #2 overall pick

NO Trades:

(1) Anthony Davis
(2) Omer Asik

If we could pull this off this summer our team would be...

(G) Irving, Smart, Rozier
(F)  Hayward, Brown, Morris, Ojeleye
(BIGS) Davis, Asik, Theis

Pretty great team.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: blink on November 19, 2017, 03:16:15 PM
I love me some Jayson Tatum, but let's be serious.  You wouldn't trade him for Anthony Davis?  Come on.

Absolutely NOT.  We now have all the pieces we need to compete for championships going forward.

What’s Tatum’s upside? Granger? Pierce? PG13?

Taking emotion out of it, I’d trade any of them for Davis.

You are taking emotion AND Salary cap rules out of it though... If you want to trade for Davis and keep Horford/Hayward/Irving you have to include Smart, Brown, Morris, and Tatum. You may be able to keep either Smart or Morris but then youd be trading a combination of players like Yabusele/Nader/Rozier/Ojeleye, etc.

To be completely honest it would be better to try and add a player like Horford or Hayward with Tatum to not gut your team as much. (Obviously trading Hayward would be a PR disaster and would never happen)


My ideal trade would involve receiving a top 3 pick (Preferably #2) from LAL/SAC and offering the following...

BOS Trades:
(1) Jayson Tatum
(2) Al Horford
(3) The number #2 overall pick

NO Trades:

(1) Anthony Davis
(2) Omer Asik

If we could pull this off this summer our team would be...

(G) Irving, Smart, Rozier
(F)  Hayward, Brown, Morris, Ojeleye
(BIGS) Davis, Asik, Theis

Pretty great team.

I honestly don't think that makes our team better.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on November 19, 2017, 03:21:23 PM
Curious: does anyone see resemblance between our situation and the Warriors a few years ago?

Remember how everyone (EVERYONE) thought that the Warriors should trade Thompson and Green or Thompson and Barnes for Kevin Love?

Kevin Love was a top 10 player at the time. He was supposed to be the new Charles Barkley. The thinking was that the Warriors would have the inside-out presence that championship teams are built on. Jerry West said no, and the Warriors went on to 3 straight championships, winning two.

Would anyone make that trade today?

Davis may be a better player, but are we sure he isn't more Kevin Love than Tim Duncan? Why don't his teams win? Why are there significant stats that question his defensive impact? Why is he playing second fiddle to Cousins now?

I mean, I would definitely take him on our team. Don't get me wrong. He's great.

But maybe we should hang on to our own Barnes, Thompson, and Green and see what we can develop into.

Sometimes the best trades are the ones you don't make.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: ETNCeltics on November 19, 2017, 03:22:00 PM
No way I'd trade both of them and the pick. It's gutting our future for a short 2 or 3 year window.

Tatum and filler for AD? That makes sense, but personally, I hope it never happens. The biggest thrill - at least for me - is seeing my team built from the ground up and see them growing up. Piecing together a roster and winning with other teams players has nowhere near the value to me. I didn't just love Larry Bird because he was the best player I'd ever seen, I loved him because he was ours from the start and was his whole career. I was a fan of Pierce in a way I never could have been KG.

There's also the notion of Tatum's "ceiling". What is his ceiling? IMO, he has potential to become a an elite franchise player. He has shown an offensive efficiency as a rookie that almost none ever show, and he's holding his own defensively. I don't think he has a ceiling.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: 86MaxwellSmart on November 19, 2017, 03:23:44 PM
Trade Hayward for Davis before I'd trade Brown or Tatum....ha
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on November 19, 2017, 03:26:19 PM
Trade Hayward for Davis before I'd trade Brown or Tatum....ha

If you trade Hayward, it would be the beginning of the end of the Stevens era for the Celtics.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: JBcat on November 19, 2017, 03:36:00 PM
I don’t see The Pelicans wanting Horford if they are trading Davis.  They will probably want rebuilding pieces.

However, maybe you make a 3 team deal.  I’d rather push for trading Horford with say one of Rozier or Smart, the Lakers/Kings pick, and the Memphis pick, and hold onto Tatum and Brown for dear life if possible.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: nickagneta on November 19, 2017, 03:43:00 PM
New Orleans is starting to look like a possible playoff team. They aren't trading Davis anytime soon.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Tr1boy on November 19, 2017, 04:12:34 PM
Based on basketball ability, I would trade Tatum for Davis and it wouldn't hurt my feelings.  If Tatum turns into 75% of the player Davis already is, we'd all be doing backflips. 

But Davis gets injured reading the menu at his favorite restaurant.  And it never ends up being major, but I'd always worry about how much basketball we'd end up getting out of him - whether those minor injuries would start to add up.  Repeat concussions are not a good thing.  That said, it wouldn't stop me from making the move.

Tatum is 75 percent of what Davis is (pro rated) ...already  ;D

can Davis handle the ball??  his outside shooting is not reliable.  He can't dribble stop and pop like Tatum can.  Drive to the basket and finish like Tatum can

Tatum is also a better perimeter defender


Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on November 19, 2017, 04:16:40 PM
Curious: does anyone see resemblance between our situation and the Warriors a few years ago?

Remember how everyone (EVERYONE) thought that the Warriors should trade Thompson and Green or Thompson and Barnes for Kevin Love?

Kevin Love was a top 10 player at the time. He was supposed to be the new Charles Barkley. The thinking was that the Warriors would have the inside-out presence that championship teams are built on. Jerry West said no, and the Warriors went on to 3 straight championships, winning two.

Would anyone make that trade today?

Davis may be a better player, but are we sure he isn't more Kevin Love than Tim Duncan? Why don't his teams win? Why are there significant stats that question his defensive impact? Why is he playing second fiddle to Cousins now?

I mean, I would definitely take him on our team. Don't get me wrong. He's great.

But maybe we should hang on to our own Barnes, Thompson, and Green and see what we can develop into.

Sometimes the best trades are the ones you don't make.

Maybe its weird to bump myself like this, but I wanted this thought out there for the conversation and it seems like it may be going unseen due to the page turn. Thoughts?
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: rondofan1255 on January 09, 2018, 01:14:12 PM
For the poll, I just voted No. I'd prefer the drafting/signing route for bigs.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: fairweatherfan on January 09, 2018, 01:32:24 PM
Ignoring salary rules etc I'd trade Tatum straight up for Davis. I sometimes waver a little on that, mainly due to contract and durability, but I realize a lot of that's just the homer in me.

I have a hard time imagining what I'd include on top of Tatum to land him. If you assume you lose Smart this offseason it's worth including him. Maybe one of our lesser 1sts. Definitely not Brown on top.

I don't know, maybe I'm getting ahead of myself but the kid looks incredible so far, on a (relatively) cheap deal, plus RFA and Bird rights. Hard to pass up.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: CF033 on January 09, 2018, 01:48:43 PM
Personally I would def not trade both Brown and Tatum for Anthony Davis, no way.

If it were just one of them I would have to consider it. Both Tatum and Brown have high ceilings, and AD has a history of being injury prone. It'd be a tough call.

Obviously they'd want more than just one of them and that would probably lead to lots of deal breakers.

In the end I think I'd leave the team as it is now and continue to build.

I'm prob wrong lol.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: IDreamCeltics on January 09, 2018, 02:04:18 PM
Trade Hayward for Davis before I'd trade Brown or Tatum....ha

If you trade Hayward, it would be the beginning of the end of the Stevens era for the Celtics.

Who cares?  Two thirds of the coaches in the NBA could win a Title with a core of Kyrie, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum, Al Horford, and Anthony Davis.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: IDreamCeltics on January 09, 2018, 02:08:18 PM
Curious: does anyone see resemblance between our situation and the Warriors a few years ago?

Remember how everyone (EVERYONE) thought that the Warriors should trade Thompson and Green or Thompson and Barnes for Kevin Love?

Kevin Love was a top 10 player at the time. He was supposed to be the new Charles Barkley. The thinking was that the Warriors would have the inside-out presence that championship teams are built on. Jerry West said no, and the Warriors went on to 3 straight championships, winning two.

Would anyone make that trade today?

Davis may be a better player, but are we sure he isn't more Kevin Love than Tim Duncan? Why don't his teams win? Why are there significant stats that question his defensive impact? Why is he playing second fiddle to Cousins now?

I mean, I would definitely take him on our team. Don't get me wrong. He's great.

But maybe we should hang on to our own Barnes, Thompson, and Green and see what we can develop into.

Sometimes the best trades are the ones you don't make.

Maybe its weird to bump myself like this, but I wanted this thought out there for the conversation and it seems like it may be going unseen due to the page turn. Thoughts?

I think you were right in both posts! 

I have no idea how anyone could consider trading away Tatum who is shooting 46% from three as a 19 year old rookie... He's untouchable.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: tstorey_97 on January 09, 2018, 04:30:22 PM
Just an exercise...one that will help with the evaluation process.

Tatum for Davis.

Obviously there is filler, but who cares? Tatum for Davis.

Both transcendent players.

****************

Now the point.

You have Tatum for the coming years for about a third of the price for Davis.

So keep Tatum and you have your "big three"...Hayward, Irving and Tatum a couple years down the road and some extra cashola for whomever.

"This" big three is the better window than trading half the team for one guy.

Regardless of what I think? Ainge might do it. Red insisted on a big with balanced offense and defense and just that got Ainge his last title.

BTW...since when is New Orleans planning on trading Davis anyway? We all know Ainge is always planning to trade everybody, but is N.O.?
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: GreenEnvy on January 09, 2018, 04:40:46 PM
Just an exercise...one that will help with the evaluation process.

Tatum for Davis.

Obviously there is filler, but who cares? Tatum for Davis.

Both transcendent players.

****************

Now the point.

You have Tatum for the coming years for about a third of the price for Davis.

So keep Tatum and you have your "big three"...Hayward, Irving and Tatum a couple years down the road and some extra cashola for whomever.

"This" big three is the better window than trading half the team for one guy.

Regardless of what I think? Ainge might do it. Red insisted on a big with balanced offense and defense and just that got Ainge his last title.

BTW...since when is New Orleans planning on trading Davis anyway? We all know Ainge is always planning to trade everybody, but is N.O.?

Straight up? There’s no question, you do it.

The real question is the filler. Is it another top pick? A mediocre draft pick? Hordford? Morris? Rozier? Brown? What combination? That’s when it gets questionable.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Roy H. on January 09, 2018, 04:43:46 PM
Quote
Tatum for Davis.

Obviously there is filler, but who cares? Tatum for Davis.

Both transcendent players.

Tatum isn’t there yet. That’s got to be factored into the equation.

I’d like to think that Paul Pierce is his most likely scenario, but is that true? 
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: cman88 on January 09, 2018, 05:27:33 PM
the thing is, to get Davis you would have to jettison alot of talent including Tatum. If Tatum/Brown develop like they look they are going to, you could look at a team with 4-allstars and an ex-allstar in horford.

Irving/Brown/Hayward/Tatum/Horford is going to be scary in a year...even scarier in 2.(as long as horfords game holds up)

Plus, by the time NO is ready to trade Davis who knows how good tatum will be.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: jdz101 on January 09, 2018, 05:33:26 PM
Quote
Tatum for Davis.

Obviously there is filler, but who cares? Tatum for Davis.

Both transcendent players.

Tatum isn’t there yet. That’s got to be factored into the equation.

I’d like to think that Paul Pierce is his most likely scenario, but is that true?

Tatum could quite easily be better than pierce.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: GreenEnvy on January 09, 2018, 05:44:58 PM
Quote
Tatum for Davis.

Obviously there is filler, but who cares? Tatum for Davis.

Both transcendent players.

Tatum isn’t there yet. That’s got to be factored into the equation.

I’d like to think that Paul Pierce is his most likely scenario, but is that true?

Tatum could quite easily be better than pierce.

Quite easily?
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Monkhouse on January 09, 2018, 05:47:59 PM
Quote
Tatum for Davis.

Obviously there is filler, but who cares? Tatum for Davis.

Both transcendent players.

Tatum isn’t there yet. That’s got to be factored into the equation.

I’d like to think that Paul Pierce is his most likely scenario, but is that true?

Tatum could quite easily be better than pierce.

Can we just let this young man live his career before we put unnecessary expectations first.. that's a very bold statement. Pierce has been one of the most underappreciated stars of his entire career.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: GreenEnvy on January 09, 2018, 06:00:47 PM
Quote
Tatum for Davis.

Obviously there is filler, but who cares? Tatum for Davis.

Both transcendent players.

Tatum isn’t there yet. That’s got to be factored into the equation.

I’d like to think that Paul Pierce is his most likely scenario, but is that true?

I didn’t get to see much of Paul prior to 2001. How was he in his first three years? I know he came out of college 2 years older than Tatum, but he seemed capable in every facet of the game right off the bat.

Pierce is my favorite player ever, so to draft a 2.0 in Tatum would be dream.

Tatum has a great shot. I don’t think it’s an aberration, I think it’s legit. His slashing at times looks elite, but it’s not consistent. His length is certainly bothersome on defense, but he isn’t a standout individual defender and his team defense (areas where Pierce excelled) isn’t up to par, but I know he’s only 19.

Will he ever become the passer (probably the most underrated area of Paul’s career), iso scorer (able to get his own shot off wherever he wants), defender, and leader that Paul became?

As talented and excellent as he has looked thus far, its extremely unfair to compare him to a 10x All-Star, Finals MVP, first-ballot HoF’er who is about to have his number retired.

I love the comparison, just not yet.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Ogaju on January 09, 2018, 06:09:30 PM
I love me some Jayson Tatum, but let's be serious.  You wouldn't trade him for Anthony Davis?  Come on.

I sure wouldnt.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Phantom255x on January 09, 2018, 06:10:58 PM
I love me some Jayson Tatum, but let's be serious.  You wouldn't trade him for Anthony Davis?  Come on.

I sure wouldnt.

Same. That would be a fleece for the Pelicans. I'd want back more than just AD!

 :laugh:
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Monkhouse on January 09, 2018, 06:18:10 PM
Tatum straight up for AD, I do it. I would think most GM's would but you would have to max AD soon, whereas Tatum has plenty of young cost controlled years before he ever earns his rookie max. Hmmm..
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Ogaju on January 09, 2018, 07:17:03 PM
Tatum straight up for AD, I do it. I would think most GM's would but you would have to max AD soon, whereas Tatum has plenty of young cost controlled years before he ever earns his rookie max. Hmmm..

as has been pointed out in this thread that is why you do not do this. When you give up Tatum for AD you have to send out additional players just to match salary. After that you are restricted in the  quality of players you can get because of AD's salary. Why would you do that when AD does not necessarily give you much than Tatum.

So what you have in theory is AD > Tatum.....  Which is a big maybe and up for debate

But in reality what you are doing if you make this deal is

Tatum + multiple talented players + cap space > AD  ...indisputable and without a shadow of a doubt
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Granath on January 09, 2018, 07:25:57 PM
Quote
Tatum for Davis.

Obviously there is filler, but who cares? Tatum for Davis.

Both transcendent players.

Tatum isn’t there yet. That’s got to be factored into the equation.

I’d like to think that Paul Pierce is his most likely scenario, but is that true?

I didn’t get to see much of Paul prior to 2001. How was he in his first three years? I know he came out of college 2 years older than Tatum, but he seemed capable in every facet of the game right off the bat.

Pierce is my favorite player ever, so to draft a 2.0 in Tatum would be dream.

Tatum has a great shot. I don’t think it’s an aberration, I think it’s legit. His slashing at times looks elite, but it’s not consistent. His length is certainly bothersome on defense, but he isn’t a standout individual defender and his team defense (areas where Pierce excelled) isn’t up to par, but I know he’s only 19.

Will he ever become the passer (probably the most underrated area of Paul’s career), iso scorer (able to get his own shot off wherever he wants), defender, and leader that Paul became?

As talented and excellent as he has looked thus far, its extremely unfair to compare him to a 10x All-Star, Finals MVP, first-ballot HoF’er who is about to have his number retired.

I love the comparison, just not yet.

Actually, the comparison may shortchange Tatum and not PP.

Pierce was a 3 year starter in college with over 100 games as a starter under his belt. He turned 22 at the start of his rookie season. He should have been far ahead of Tatum at that juncture. PER 36 (this is one of those times this makes sense) he went for 17.4/6.8/2.5 on a TS of .54.

Tatum came out 2 1/2 years younger after 27 games started in college. That's an enormous difference in age and experience. PER 36 he's going for 16/6.3/1.5 on a TS of .626. He's also probably better defensively than Pierce was during his rookie year.

As rookies, statistically they're very close. When you take into account their relative ages and experience Tatum is having a far more impressive season. Now that doesn't mean he's going to be as good as PP. After all, there have been guys who hit the limits of their abilities pretty quickly in the NBA even after posting solid stats their first year or two (Greg Monroe hit that wall during his 2nd season, for instance). But right now, it's Tatum whose rookie campaign is more impressive in my view.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: mr. dee on January 09, 2018, 07:26:42 PM
I wouldn't. because...

1. cap flexibility
2. durability
3. chemistry
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Fireworks_Boom! on January 09, 2018, 09:23:22 PM
It's really just hyperbole to even discuss Tatum for Davis. It could never happen for salary cap purposes.

But lets say they had equivalent salaries and thus could be swapped in a 1-for-1 deal. This is an obvious decision to me. Davis for sure.

But there are too many factors to consider including the salary cap (cost controlled years vs. max) and health.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: blink on January 09, 2018, 09:47:14 PM
Maybe I am overvaluing our own players, but I wouldn't trade Tatum, Brown and Smart for AD.  That just seems too much to me.  Pelicans probably would want picks on top of that.  I like Davis, but Brown and Tatum have a big chance to be long term celtics with all star potential who are on great contracts.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: jdz101 on January 09, 2018, 09:50:23 PM
Quote
Tatum for Davis.

Obviously there is filler, but who cares? Tatum for Davis.

Both transcendent players.

Tatum isn’t there yet. That’s got to be factored into the equation.

I’d like to think that Paul Pierce is his most likely scenario, but is that true?

Tatum could quite easily be better than pierce.

Can we just let this young man live his career before we put unnecessary expectations first.. that's a very bold statement. Pierce has been one of the most underappreciated stars of his entire career.

Sure, but we're discussing his potential on an internet forum which he'll never read. So who cares what our expectations are. He could be better than Pierce. He has the tools and more speed and athleticism. Its completely conceivable.

I don't say that lightly. Paul was my favourite player ever.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: nickagneta on January 09, 2018, 10:11:35 PM
Quote
Tatum for Davis.

Obviously there is filler, but who cares? Tatum for Davis.

Both transcendent players.

Tatum isn’t there yet. That’s got to be factored into the equation.

I’d like to think that Paul Pierce is his most likely scenario, but is that true?

Tatum could quite easily be better than pierce.

Can we just let this young man live his career before we put unnecessary expectations first.. that's a very bold statement. Pierce has been one of the most underappreciated stars of his entire career.

Sure, but we're discussing his potential on an internet forum which he'll never read. So who cares what our expectations are. He could be better than Pierce. He has the tools and more speed and athleticism. Its completely conceivable.

I don't say that lightly. Paul was my favourite player ever.
I must be getting old because Pierce is only my 4th favorite Celtic after Bird, Havlicek and McHale.

Must say though, Tatum has the potential to bust into that top 4. Time will tell but he has that type of potential.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: More Banners on January 09, 2018, 10:30:08 PM
Quote
Tatum for Davis.

Obviously there is filler, but who cares? Tatum for Davis.

Both transcendent players.

Tatum isn’t there yet. That’s got to be factored into the equation.

I’d like to think that Paul Pierce is his most likely scenario, but is that true?

Tatum could quite easily be better than pierce.

Can we just let this young man live his career before we put unnecessary expectations first.. that's a very bold statement. Pierce has been one of the most underappreciated stars of his entire career.

Sure, but we're discussing his potential on an internet forum which he'll never read. So who cares what our expectations are. He could be better than Pierce. He has the tools and more speed and athleticism. Its completely conceivable.

I don't say that lightly. Paul was my favourite player ever.
I must be getting old because Pierce is only my 4th favorite Celtic after Bird, Havlicek and McHale.

Must say though, Tatum has the potential to bust into that top 4. Time will tell but he has that type of potential.

See I only go back to McHale/Bird, but there is still Havlicek & Bill Russell ahead at least, and JoJo White is up here in the top 5-7 conversation as well. That might put Pierce outside the Celtics all time top-5.

Tatum is special smooth with the ball though. Comes natural.  And he rebounds and can defend, too.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: nickagneta on January 09, 2018, 11:03:19 PM
Quote
Tatum for Davis.

Obviously there is filler, but who cares? Tatum for Davis.

Both transcendent players.

Tatum isn’t there yet. That’s got to be factored into the equation.

I’d like to think that Paul Pierce is his most likely scenario, but is that true?

Tatum could quite easily be better than pierce.

Can we just let this young man live his career before we put unnecessary expectations first.. that's a very bold statement. Pierce has been one of the most underappreciated stars of his entire career.

Sure, but we're discussing his potential on an internet forum which he'll never read. So who cares what our expectations are. He could be better than Pierce. He has the tools and more speed and athleticism. Its completely conceivable.

I don't say that lightly. Paul was my favourite player ever.
I must be getting old because Pierce is only my 4th favorite Celtic after Bird, Havlicek and McHale.

Must say though, Tatum has the potential to bust into that top 4. Time will tell but he has that type of potential.

See I only go back to McHale/Bird, but there is still Havlicek & Bill Russell ahead at least, and JoJo White is up here in the top 5-7 conversation as well. That might put Pierce outside the Celtics all time top-5.

Tatum is special smooth with the ball though. Comes natural.  And he rebounds and can defend, too.
If Larry and JoJo played in today's NBA with the 3 point shot being used as it is, they would be considered so much better than they are perceived today. Pistol Pete, too.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: johnnygreen on January 10, 2018, 10:07:09 AM
Due to the premium of 3 point shooting and athletic players with length in today's game, isn't Tatum a great combination of both. It is like NBA scientists went to a lab before the draft, and developed Jayson.

Don't get me wrong, I love Anthony Davis, but he plays a position that the league seems to be moving away from offensively. The only reason I would want Davis is for his rebounding and defense.

Due to having to match salaries in the trade, I feel like a package that includes Tatum, provides more bang for your buck than Davis.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Fafnir on January 10, 2018, 10:23:35 AM
Due to the premium of 3 point shooting and athletic players with length in today's game, isn't Tatum a great combination of both. It is like NBA scientists went to a lab before the draft, and developed Jayson.
Davis is shooting 37% from three this year. I'm pretty confident that he can take a much greater volume too, but the Pelicans have Boogie be the spacing big from deep.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: Roy H. on January 10, 2018, 10:24:58 AM
Due to the premium of 3 point shooting and athletic players with length in today's game, isn't Tatum a great combination of both. It is like NBA scientists went to a lab before the draft, and developed Jayson.

Don't get me wrong, I love Anthony Davis, but he plays a position that the league seems to be moving away from offensively. The only reason I would want Davis is for his rebounding and defense.

The league will never move away from Davis’ skill set.

26 points, 10 rebounds on 56% FG% / 37% 3PT% / .582 eFG% / .640 TS%. He gets to the line 8 times per game, is a decent passer, and is a borderline-elite defender.

With Kyrie, Hayward and Jaylen, Davis is pretty much the best fit possible.

A trade isn’t practical this season, but if we could do something next year for Tatum + Morris + resigned DPE player, I’d drive Tatum to the airport.

Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: kozlodoev on January 10, 2018, 10:40:02 AM
Quote
Tatum for Davis.

Obviously there is filler, but who cares? Tatum for Davis.

Both transcendent players.

Tatum isn’t there yet. That’s got to be factored into the equation.

I’d like to think that Paul Pierce is his most likely scenario, but is that true?

Tatum could quite easily be better than pierce.
Imagine a 6'9 version of Paul Pierce that could legitimately see time at PF. Scary.

Of course, Tatum still has ways to go before he's close to Pierce's playmaking ability, but there's no reason this shouldn't come with time.
Title: Re: Tanguay: I might not trade Jayson Tatum for Anthony Davis
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on January 10, 2018, 10:42:50 AM
Due to the premium of 3 point shooting and athletic players with length in today's game, isn't Tatum a great combination of both. It is like NBA scientists went to a lab before the draft, and developed Jayson.

Don't get me wrong, I love Anthony Davis, but he plays a position that the league seems to be moving away from offensively. The only reason I would want Davis is for his rebounding and defense.

The league will never move away from Davis’ skill set.

26 points, 10 rebounds on 56% FG% / 37% 3PT% / .582 eFG% / .640 TS%. He gets to the line 8 times per game, is a decent passer, and is a borderline-elite defender.

With Kyrie, Hayward and Jaylen, Davis is pretty much the best fit possible.

A trade isn’t practical this season, but if we could do something next year for Tatum + Morris + resigned DPE player, I’d drive Tatum to the airport.

I like Davis. I probably wouldn't trade Tatum for him (as a fan with green-tinted glasses), but I like Davis.

However, I disagree with the narrative that he is a borderline elite defender. He was elite in college and came into the NBA with that reputation, but few stats indicate he has even had elite stretches in his career. His first few years he was an average defender. These last two years he has been above average to good.

Part of that might be that he puts so much energy into offense that he has none left for defense, but its still worth a note.

His passing is average (decent as you say). That's not a plus quality, it's just not a negative quality.

Still 26 and 12 with great efficiency and the potential for good defense is awesome.