CelticsStrong

Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: rollie mass on November 14, 2017, 07:52:34 AM

Title: Jayson and growth plates
Post by: rollie mass on November 14, 2017, 07:52:34 AM
There was little follow up on the posting that Jason had room to grow.There was a post that stated his growth plates had not closed
.Were these just rumors,he turned 19 in March i have tried to find corroboration about who thought and why and whether growth plates had fused.
Title: Re: Jason and growth plates
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on November 14, 2017, 08:41:20 AM
There was little follow up on the posting that Jason had room to grow.There was a post that stated his growth plates had not closed
.Were these just rumors,he turned 19 in March i have tried to find corroboration about who thought and why and whether growth plates had fused.

I'll take blame (or credit). I heard this through one of the medias that I watched/read leading up to the draft, but I do not remember which one.

If I'm wrong, I'm sorry for misleading or propagating wrong information.

I do specifically remember hearing this in a credible way, but I cannot find the information.

Here is a place (might not be the one I read) that references it.
https://www.celticsblog.com/2017/10/23/16498506/jayson-tatum-maturation-be-accelerated-boston-celtics-fast-forward-gordon-hayward

Title: Re: Jason and growth plates
Post by: CFAN38 on November 14, 2017, 09:08:54 AM
I know Fran Fraschilla mentioned in the Celtics season preview on NBA TV that (to paraphrase) he had friends in the Celtics organization who are really excited about Tatum and that they feel he has yet to stop growing and will ultimately be 6'9 or 6'10.

I remember the other hosts didn't have anything to say about it but I started texting friends the minute I heard that...
Title: Re: Jason and growth plates
Post by: azzenfrost on November 14, 2017, 09:11:11 AM
Happy how he is now but if that's true...man, it's going to be fun.
Title: Re: Jason and growth plates
Post by: rollie mass on November 14, 2017, 09:31:25 AM
There was little follow up on the posting that Jason had room to grow.There was a post that stated his growth plates had not closed
.Were these just rumors,he turned 19 in March i have tried to find corroboration about who thought and why and whether growth plates had fused.

I'll take blame (or credit). I heard this through one of the medias that I watched/read leading up to the draft, but I do not remember which one.

If I'm wrong, I'm sorry for misleading or propagating wrong information.

I do specifically remember hearing this in a credible way, but I cannot find the information.

Here is a place (might not be the one I read) that references it.
https://www.celticsblog.com/2017/10/23/16498506/jayson-tatum-maturation-be-accelerated-boston-celtics-fast-forward-gordon-hayward

TP--Getting to 6-10 puts him in another league -he has the frame and legs that look like he could grow a bit
Title: Re: Jason and growth plates
Post by: billysan on November 14, 2017, 09:48:12 AM
We can only hope he makes it to that height and that he stays healthy.
Title: Re: Jason and growth plates
Post by: Fafnir on November 14, 2017, 09:59:23 AM
He could, happened with Paul George after all.

I still think with his length and standing reach he doesn't need to grow taller to be an all-nba caliber player.
Title: Re: Jason and growth plates
Post by: CELTICSofBOSTON on November 14, 2017, 10:44:47 AM
according to draftexpress.com he has a 6’11” wingspan which is pretty good.  However,  he seems so much longer than that.  Maybe it’s his wide shoulders or the double jointed elbows but he just looks like he is longer than 6’11”.  Anyone else agree?
Title: Re: Jason and growth plates
Post by: Big333223 on November 14, 2017, 10:56:19 AM
I'm pretty medically illiterate but something about the term "growth plates" sounds like phrenology or some other bunk. Like I said, I don't now anything about it, just gave me a chuckle.
Title: Re: Jason and growth plates
Post by: Eddie20 on November 14, 2017, 11:08:00 AM
I'm pretty medically illiterate but something about the term "growth plates" sounds like phrenology or some other bunk. Like I said, I don't now anything about it, just gave me a chuckle.

He'd have to have a bone age to determine if his growth plates were fused. Not sure if that's done during the pre-draft physical, but it's certainly possible.
Title: Re: Jason and growth plates
Post by: Fafnir on November 14, 2017, 11:10:15 AM
according to draftexpress.com he has a 6’11” wingspan which is pretty good.  However,  he seems so much longer than that.  Maybe it’s his wide shoulders or the double jointed elbows but he just looks like he is longer than 6’11”.  Anyone else agree?
His standing reach is 7" higher than Josh Jackson. He's just a long lanky guy.
Title: Re: Jason and growth plates
Post by: keevsnick on November 14, 2017, 11:19:08 AM
I mean just medically speaking its unlikely he's still growing, most men don't grow much if at all after age 18 (height wise, muscle mass can be and often is significantly added). That said its not impossible.
Title: Re: Jason and growth plates
Post by: Fafnir on November 14, 2017, 11:25:43 AM
I mean just medically speaking its unlikely he's still growing, most men don't grow much if at all after age 18 (height wise, muscle mass can be and often is significantly added). That said its not impossible.
True, but Paul George and Giannis both grew after they were drafted. I wouldn't be surprised if NBA athletes of that height/build were more likely than the general population to grow some more at 18/19.
Title: Re: Jason and growth plates
Post by: GreenEnvy on November 14, 2017, 11:52:37 AM
according to draftexpress.com he has a 6’11” wingspan which is pretty good.  However,  he seems so much longer than that.  Maybe it’s his wide shoulders or the double jointed elbows but he just looks like he is longer than 6’11”.  Anyone else agree?

I do. When he drives, goes up and extends out for a layup, the ball seems extraordinarily far away. His arms look very long.

I’m very excited about the kid’s future. His talent and demeanor are legit.
Title: Re: Jason and growth plates
Post by: GreenEnvy on November 14, 2017, 11:54:52 AM
I mean just medically speaking its unlikely he's still growing, most men don't grow much if at all after age 18 (height wise, muscle mass can be and often is significantly added). That said its not impossible.

Didn’t Rodman supposedly grow like 6” at 20 years old, or something like that?
Title: Re: Jason and growth plates
Post by: A Future of Stevens on November 14, 2017, 12:08:55 PM
I'm pretty medically illiterate but something about the term "growth plates" sounds like phrenology or some other bunk. Like I said, I don't now anything about it, just gave me a chuckle.

It is the laymans term for the Epiphyseal Plate. This is the cartilage portion at the end of a long bone where a specific type of bone remodeling occurs. In contrast to most remodeling, this portion actually increases in length causing longer bones. Chondrocytes (??? Been a while since I took Histology) are the cells in this plate that are under constant mitotic division producing this effect.

If I remember correctly, during puberty, apoptosis (programmed cell death) of the chondrocytes increases, until eventually the cartilage portion at the end of the bone has been replaced by solid bone. This is when the plate is considered fused.

Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epiphyseal_plate (I double checked myself haha)
Title: Re: Jason and growth plates
Post by: keevsnick on November 14, 2017, 12:17:25 PM
I mean just medically speaking its unlikely he's still growing, most men don't grow much if at all after age 18 (height wise, muscle mass can be and often is significantly added). That said its not impossible.
True, but Paul George and Giannis both grew after they were drafted. I wouldn't be surprised if NBA athletes of that height/build were more likely than the general population to grow some more at 18/19.

Those are two example too be sure, but with 15 man rosters and 30 teams we are taking 450-500 players (d league call ups) in the nba in any given season so 2 people who grew after being drafted isn't really a large sample. I'm naturally skeptical when I here reports about guys who keep growing, 95% of the time its just hype.
Title: Re: Jason and growth plates
Post by: knuckleballer on November 14, 2017, 12:25:28 PM
I said last year watching him in college that looked slightly taller than he did in high school.  I think he looks even taller than that now and his arms are noticeably longer.  Just eyeballing it, he looks a solid 6'9" in shoes with a standing reach just over 9 feet.  He also looks slightly more athletic than he did in college which was a common criticism.  It's like he's a couple years behind in his natural physical development and the Celtics are going to benefit from it.
Title: Re: Jason and growth plates
Post by: RIPRED on November 14, 2017, 05:09:07 PM
We can only hope he makes it to that height and that he stays healthy.

I'm more than fine with him as is. If he doesn't get taller, he will still fill out and get stronger as his body matures.
Title: Re: Jason and growth plates
Post by: Big333223 on November 15, 2017, 06:51:05 PM
I'm pretty medically illiterate but something about the term "growth plates" sounds like phrenology or some other bunk. Like I said, I don't now anything about it, just gave me a chuckle.

It is the laymans term for the Epiphyseal Plate. This is the cartilage portion at the end of a long bone where a specific type of bone remodeling occurs. In contrast to most remodeling, this portion actually increases in length causing longer bones. Chondrocytes (??? Been a while since I took Histology) are the cells in this plate that are under constant mitotic division producing this effect.

If I remember correctly, during puberty, apoptosis (programmed cell death) of the chondrocytes increases, until eventually the cartilage portion at the end of the bone has been replaced by solid bone. This is when the plate is considered fused.

Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epiphyseal_plate (I double checked myself haha)
TP for the info.
Title: Re: Jason and growth plates
Post by: Neurotic Guy on November 15, 2017, 07:18:55 PM
I'm pretty medically illiterate but something about the term "growth plates" sounds like phrenology or some other bunk. Like I said, I don't now anything about it, just gave me a chuckle.

It is the laymans term for the Epiphyseal Plate. This is the cartilage portion at the end of a long bone where a specific type of bone remodeling occurs. In contrast to most remodeling, this portion actually increases in length causing longer bones. Chondrocytes (??? Been a while since I took Histology) are the cells in this plate that are under constant mitotic division producing this effect.

If I remember correctly, during puberty, apoptosis (programmed cell death) of the chondrocytes increases, until eventually the cartilage portion at the end of the bone has been replaced by solid bone. This is when the plate is considered fused.

Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epiphyseal_plate (I double checked myself haha)

I would have thought that the age of onset of puberty would be a key determining factor in likelihood of growth after 18.
Title: Re: Jason and growth plates
Post by: vjcsmoke on November 15, 2017, 09:05:32 PM
I do feel like his wingspan is at least 7 feet.  And he blows by NBA defenders in 2 strides.  It is so easy for him to get to the rim and create unstoppable layups for himself.

With Jayson being so young, we do benefit from his body developing into his full self.

To think that he is already this good at age 19!  The sky is the limit for this kid!  Very happy DA made the decision to take Tatum as the Celtic's top pick!
Title: Re: Jason and growth plates
Post by: A Future of Stevens on November 15, 2017, 09:09:18 PM
I'm pretty medically illiterate but something about the term "growth plates" sounds like phrenology or some other bunk. Like I said, I don't now anything about it, just gave me a chuckle.

It is the laymans term for the Epiphyseal Plate. This is the cartilage portion at the end of a long bone where a specific type of bone remodeling occurs. In contrast to most remodeling, this portion actually increases in length causing longer bones. Chondrocytes (??? Been a while since I took Histology) are the cells in this plate that are under constant mitotic division producing this effect.

If I remember correctly, during puberty, apoptosis (programmed cell death) of the chondrocytes increases, until eventually the cartilage portion at the end of the bone has been replaced by solid bone. This is when the plate is considered fused.

Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epiphyseal_plate (I double checked myself haha)

I would have thought that the age of onset of puberty would be a key determining factor in likelihood of growth after 18.

Hitting puberty later should in effect increase the duration of Chondrocyte cell division. It just seems counter intuitive to say someone like Tatum hasn't fully gone through puberty haha.
Title: Re: Jason and growth plates
Post by: slightly biased bias fan on November 15, 2017, 09:41:47 PM
There was little follow up on the posting that Jason had room to grow.There was a post that stated his growth plates had not closed
.Were these just rumors,he turned 19 in March i have tried to find corroboration about who thought and why and whether growth plates had fused.

Most men stop growing at 21 but there are cases (myself included) where males continue to grow until 25, the rate obviously differs from person to person.

P.S can you change his name from Jason to Jayson (my o.c.d thanks you)
Title: Re: Jayson and growth plates
Post by: Celtics4ever on November 16, 2017, 07:36:41 AM
I grew one inch at Tatum's age from 6-6 to 6-7 until 21.
Title: Re: Jason and growth plates
Post by: gift on November 16, 2017, 09:42:17 AM
I mean just medically speaking its unlikely he's still growing, most men don't grow much if at all after age 18 (height wise, muscle mass can be and often is significantly added). That said its not impossible.
True, but Paul George and Giannis both grew after they were drafted. I wouldn't be surprised if NBA athletes of that height/build were more likely than the general population to grow some more at 18/19.

Those are two example too be sure, but with 15 man rosters and 30 teams we are taking 450-500 players (d league call ups) in the nba in any given season so 2 people who grew after being drafted isn't really a large sample. I'm naturally skeptical when I here reports about guys who keep growing, 95% of the time its just hype.

It is rather rare to be sure, but there have been more than two examples. Durant is another that comes to mind. Joel Embiid definitely grew and Ben Simmons was rumored to have grown (it looks possible). There was a Euro during the last lockout who grew several inches between the draft and when the season actually started in December that year. Jaylen claimed to have grown an inch last year. And if you wanted a percentage, I think you'd have to only consider players within a certain age range (many d league call ups/foreign players/college players are older and would have done most of their growing before then). It's also possible that players grow only an inch or so and doesn't get reported or noticed that much.
Title: Re: Jayson and growth plates
Post by: Ed Hollison on November 16, 2017, 10:11:48 AM
I really wonder if some of these guys in their late teens and early 20s that experience late growth spurts are being helped by HGH. Like most things in sports, it's impossible to know which I personally find frustrating and dispiriting. Giannis is a good example. He's not only grown taller since he came into the league, he's also put on lots of muscle (look at him next to his own teammates like Middleton or Henson who are about the same height). My default assumption is just good genes and a good work ethic, but the past few years have taught me that this assumption isn't worth much.

It'd be neat if Tatum grew an extra inch, but even if he doesn't, the sky is the limit for this kid. His limbs are ridiculously long and he plays much bigger than his height. His floor is as a career 20ppg scorer for the next 15 years.
Title: Re: Jayson and growth plates
Post by: slightly biased bias fan on November 16, 2017, 02:10:25 PM
I grew one inch at Tatum's age from 6-6 to 6-7 until 21.

Wow,

Are you from a tall family?
Title: Re: Jayson and growth plates
Post by: gift on November 16, 2017, 03:44:19 PM
I really wonder if some of these guys in their late teens and early 20s that experience late growth spurts are being helped by HGH. Like most things in sports, it's impossible to know which I personally find frustrating and dispiriting. Giannis is a good example. He's not only grown taller since he came into the league, he's also put on lots of muscle (look at him next to his own teammates like Middleton or Henson who are about the same height). My default assumption is just good genes and a good work ethic, but the past few years have taught me that this assumption isn't worth much.

It'd be neat if Tatum grew an extra inch, but even if he doesn't, the sky is the limit for this kid. His limbs are ridiculously long and he plays much bigger than his height. His floor is as a career 20ppg scorer for the next 15 years.

I think I remember hearing about kids undergoing certain therapies aimed at making them taller, but the details are hazy and I'm not sure if it was even found to be effective.