Celtics Blog Forums

Beyond the Association => College Basketball => Topic started by: CelticsElite on November 07, 2017, 04:09:26 PM

Title: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE 11/22: Trump- “Lavar is a poor mans Don King”)
Post by: CelticsElite on November 07, 2017, 04:09:26 PM

11/22
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/933280234220134401
"It wasn’t the White House, it wasn’t the State Department, it wasn’t father LaVar’s so-called people on the ground in China that got his son out of a long term prison sentence - IT WAS ME. Too bad! LaVar is just a poor man’s version of Don King, but without the hair. Just think..
LaVar, you could have spent the next 5 to 10 years during Thanksgiving with your son in China, but no NBA contract to support you. But remember LaVar, shoplifting is NOT a little thing. It’s a really big deal, especially in China. Ungrateful fool!"



Update 11/19
Trump says lavar is unaccepting of what trump did, so he should have left them in jail: https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/932303108146892801

"Now that the three basketball players are out of China and saved from years in jail, LaVar Ball, the father of LiAngelo, is unaccepting of what I did for his son and that shoplifting is no big deal. I should have left them in jail!"


Here is what lavar said
"Who?" LaVar Ball had told ESPN's Arash Markazi on Friday when asked about Trump's involvement in the matter. "What was he over there for? Don't tell me nothing. Everybody wants to make it seem like he helped me out."







http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/21331147/ucla-players-liangelo-ball-cody-riley-jalen-hill-arrested-china-shoplifting-charges


Big baller caught shoplifting



Could be facing 3 to 10 years in prison: http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2017/11/07/report-arrested-ucla-players-in-china-could-face-prison-time/


President Donald Trump personally asked Chinese President Xi Jinping to help resolve the case involving three UCLA basketball players, including LiAngelo Ball, who were arrested on shoplifting charges in Hangzhou, The Washington Post reported Monday.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/21400082/president-donald-trump-asks-chinese-president-xi-jinping-help-ucla-bruins-case
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: saltlover on November 07, 2017, 04:12:13 PM
That was probably not his best decision.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: SHAQATTACK on November 07, 2017, 04:14:53 PM
LOL.  ... :)

he ll get a head start play n for the Jail team .  and he ll be familiar with China....where he ll wind up,play n anyway.


Not big baller ....now small plums
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: liam on November 07, 2017, 04:15:43 PM
WOW, not smart!
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: CelticsElite on November 07, 2017, 04:18:28 PM
"My boy already leading the league in steals!!!!
-Lavar Ball
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: manl_lui on November 07, 2017, 04:18:42 PM
what an idiot
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on November 07, 2017, 04:20:59 PM
lol I doubt that there's ANY truth to this, once everything comes to light.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: liam on November 07, 2017, 04:26:50 PM
lol I doubt that there's ANY truth to this, once everything comes to light.

You don't think they were shoplifting?
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: eja117 on November 07, 2017, 04:32:33 PM
This is just about the most entertaining news story I have heard in a very long time.

Onnnnnnccceee there was this kiiiiiddd who, decided it was cool to shop lift in China yeahhhh,  aannnddd wheeeennn they finally caught him.....hmmm mmmm mmmm mmm

(https://i.imgur.com/FHUUtDX.jpg)
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: SHAQATTACK on November 07, 2017, 04:32:34 PM
don't they cut off fingers for that  :o
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: Androslav on November 07, 2017, 04:37:16 PM
don't they cut off fingers for that  :o
For the first offense they only remove left fist.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: liam on November 07, 2017, 04:37:35 PM
don't they cut off fingers for that  :o

That will effect his shooting...
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: jambr380 on November 07, 2017, 04:39:03 PM
lol I doubt that there's ANY truth to this, once everything comes to light.

You don't think they were shoplifting?

Yeah, I mean, this isn't mind-blowing; young people sometimes steal stuff. They were just being stupid - not that it is right. Hopefully the penalty isn't as shaq proposes above  :o

And tp to eja - gotta love the Crash Test Dummies!
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: hwangjini_1 on November 07, 2017, 05:07:26 PM
lol I doubt that there's ANY truth to this, once everything comes to light.
what is your basis for this assertion?
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: CelticD on November 07, 2017, 05:20:06 PM
Stealin Louis Vuitton gear in China? Lol ya they did them a favor arresting them before they brought that fake stuff back to the states.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: eja117 on November 07, 2017, 05:53:24 PM
Im kinda trying to imagine how LaVar is going to try to talk/tweet his way out of this.

"If my kid were actually a shop lifter he'd never have been caught. He'd be the best shop lifter ever."

"I myself shop lifted $2 million dollars of shoes in China once. It's no big deal."

"LiAngelo wouldn't shop lift cause I never showed him how. I prioritized his jumper, which is why he has the best jumper in college ball Day 1"

"The President of China Trump-Li has called me to apologize for all this"

"Ain't never gonna order take out again. #boycottChina #FreeLiAngelo"

"LiAngelo tells me he didn't do it and his friends were just trying to find ways to pay for their text books #payathletes"

"Can't believe I'm gonna have to fly 80 hours nonstop to China to straighten this all out. Is AirForceOne available?"

Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: manl_lui on November 07, 2017, 06:02:52 PM
Im kinda trying to imagine how LaVar is going to try to talk/tweet his way out of this.

"If my kid were actually a shop lifter he'd never have been caught. He'd be the best shop lifter ever."

"I myself shop lifted $2 million dollars of shoes in China once. It's no big deal."

"LiAngelo wouldn't shop lift cause I never showed him how. I prioritized his jumper, which is why he has the best jumper in college ball Day 1"

"The President of China Trump-Li has called me to apologize for all this"

"Ain't never gonna order take out again. #boycottChina #FreeLiAngelo"

"LiAngelo tells me he didn't do it and his friends were just trying to find ways to pay for their text books #payathletes"

"Can't believe I'm gonna have to fly 80 hours nonstop to China to straighten this all out. Is AirForceOne available?"

i wonder how some his supporters will react if he really does try to tweet his way out of this.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on November 07, 2017, 07:00:21 PM
Just because someone was arrested doesn't necessarily mean a crime was committed, right?

That's why I'm skeptical.

I know that most of the blog is rabid Laker haters (As I am) but something here seems fishy.

Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: nickagneta on November 07, 2017, 07:23:21 PM
Breaking the law while in the US....not gonna end well.

Breaking the law while in another country....possibly disasterous. Just about the stupidest thing you can do if you're a US citizen.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: hwangjini_1 on November 07, 2017, 07:26:36 PM
Just because someone was arrested doesn't necessarily mean a crime was committed, right?

That's why I'm skeptical.

I know that most of the blog is rabid Laker haters (As I am) but something here seems fishy.
What part is fishy, and why?
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on November 07, 2017, 07:58:29 PM
Just because someone was arrested doesn't necessarily mean a crime was committed, right?

That's why I'm skeptical.

I know that most of the blog is rabid Laker haters (As I am) but something here seems fishy.
What part is fishy, and why?

Did they do it?

I don't know what the disconnect is here, is there proof?

I mean - "I" was pulled over for NO REASON some years ago..did not commit a crime or anything beyond DWB (Driving While Black)...
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: CelticsElite on November 07, 2017, 08:13:50 PM
Just because someone was arrested doesn't necessarily mean a crime was committed, right?

That's why I'm skeptical.

I know that most of the blog is rabid Laker haters (As I am) but something here seems fishy.
What part is fishy, and why?

Did they do it?

I don't know what the disconnect is here, is there proof?

I mean - "I" was pulled over for NO REASON some years ago..did not commit a crime or anything beyond DWB (Driving While Black)...
it's a fair question. Are they being held captive as ransom or for some negotiation purposes? What makes this all potentially fishy IS that President Trump is headed to china later today after he leaves Korea to meet with President Xi.  I wonder if they held captive high  profile American athletes  for some other reason like extortion with Trump (like Iran did to obama.)



President trump was already long planning to visit China, the arrests have nothing to do with his visit. But it makes you wonder if china did it to discuss some ransom deal
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on November 07, 2017, 08:14:50 PM
So, from what I gather from the video clip I just saw...

"20 Chinese PO's storm the team's hotel, did not allow ANY coaches in, interrogated these players for several hours".....

Yeah - seems fishy.

I'm not saying that they are innocent, but I am ALSO saying that I'm questioning their guilt.

Is there ANY proof? Video proof?
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on November 07, 2017, 08:18:02 PM
Just because someone was arrested doesn't necessarily mean a crime was committed, right?

That's why I'm skeptical.

I know that most of the blog is rabid Laker haters (As I am) but something here seems fishy.
What part is fishy, and why?

Did they do it?

I don't know what the disconnect is here, is there proof?

I mean - "I" was pulled over for NO REASON some years ago..did not commit a crime or anything beyond DWB (Driving While Black)...
it's a fair question. Are they being held captive as ransom or for some negotiation purposes? What makes this all potentially fishy IS that President Trump is headed to china later today after he leaves Korea to meet with President Xi.  I wonder if they held captive high  profile American athletes  for some other reason

So much this, TP.

I hardly trust ANYTHING at face value nowadays.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: CelticsElite on November 07, 2017, 08:19:15 PM
So, from what I gather from the video clip I just saw...

"20 Chinese PO's storm the team's hotel, did not allow ANY coaches in, interrogated the these players for several hours".....

Yeah - seems fishy.

I'm not saying that they are innocent, but I am ALSO saying that I'm questioning their guilt.

Is there ANY proof? Video proof?
also, what was stolen that required 20 officers. And if they had proof, why were multiple people being questioned? You'd think with hard evidence like surveillance video they wouldn't need to question anyone and just take the suspects
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on November 07, 2017, 08:24:44 PM
So, from what I gather from the video clip I just saw...

"20 Chinese PO's storm the team's hotel, did not allow ANY coaches in, interrogated the these players for several hours".....

Yeah - seems fishy.

I'm not saying that they are innocent, but I am ALSO saying that I'm questioning their guilt.

Is there ANY proof? Video proof?
also, what was stolen that required 20 officers. And if they had proof, why were multiple people being questioned? You'd think with hard evidence like surveillance video they wouldn't need to question anyone and just take the suspects

Yes.

This whole thing smells fishy...like a big mouth bass - fishy.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: eja117 on November 07, 2017, 08:52:33 PM
I don't think the Chinese would have a motive for waking up in the morning and just deciding to falsely arrest multiple UCLA athletes.

The motive would be for the Americans to have a good experience there.

If hypothetically the national Chinese ping pong team were to go to Boston do you think the BPD would conspire to arrest three of them falsely for no real reason?

Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on November 07, 2017, 09:03:10 PM
I don't think the Chinese would have a motive for waking up in the morning and just deciding to falsely arrest multiple UCLA athletes.

The motive would be for the Americans to have a good experience there.

If hypothetically the national Chinese ping pong team were to go to Boston do you think the BPD would conspire to arrest three of them falsely for no real reason?

C'mon Eja you know better that's not the same thing.

I simply don't trust this whole situation.

I'd rather for the dust to settle and more information to come out.

Has HUGE potential to be Fake News.

President Trump coined that phrase, not I.

AND speaking of Pres. Trump, whose RIGHT IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD..
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: liam on November 07, 2017, 09:03:26 PM
I don't think the Chinese would have a motive for waking up in the morning and just deciding to falsely arrest multiple UCLA athletes.

The motive would be for the Americans to have a good experience there.

If hypothetically the national Chinese ping pong team were to go to Boston do you think the BPD would conspire to arrest three of them falsely for no real reason?

There are so many US basketball players over there in Chinese basketball leagues and teams playing exhibition games and all that. A false arrest would muck that all up. If players think they will be falsely imprisoned if they go play basketball in China that would seem to be bad for China.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: KGs Knee on November 07, 2017, 09:16:12 PM
How stupid must you really be to shoplift in a foreign country?

And how biased must you really be to think this is some sort of plot against these kids?

Just sad, all around.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: nickagneta on November 07, 2017, 09:21:52 PM
The thought that the Chinese government decided to frame a group of fairly little known American college basketball players for little to no reason other than to effect a meeting between the country's leaders is pretty out there, if not comical. China isn't Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Niger or some other country filled with terror groups. Its a world power with no reason to provoke the United States.

The simple take on this is its ridiculously more likely that a group of immature American teenagers thought they could get away with shoplifting than it is a superpower decided to frame them to effect relationships with Trump and the USA.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: wayupnorth on November 07, 2017, 09:25:01 PM
I don't think the Chinese would have a motive for waking up in the morning and just deciding to falsely arrest multiple UCLA athletes.

The motive would be for the Americans to have a good experience there.

If hypothetically the national Chinese ping pong team were to go to Boston do you think the BPD would conspire to arrest three of them falsely for no real reason?

C'mon Eja you know better that's not the same thing.

I simply don't trust this whole situation.

I'd rather for the dust to settle and more information to come out.

Has HUGE potential to be Fake News.

President Trump coined that phrase, not I.

AND speaking of Pres. Trump, whose RIGHT IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD..

You have got to be joking with this.

Do you know how irrational you sound?

Get a grip.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: wayupnorth on November 07, 2017, 09:27:14 PM
The thought that the Chinese government decided to frame a group of fairly little known American college basketball players for little to no reason other than to effect a meeting between the country's leaders is pretty out there, if not comical. China isn't Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Niger or some other country filled with terror groups. Its a world power with no reason to provoke the United States.

The simple take on this is its ridiculously more likely that a group of immature American teenagers thought they could get away with shoplifting than it is a superpower decided to frame them to effect relationships with Trump and the USA.

Very glad to see some reason here.

So, they are going to hold LiAngelo Ball and other random college kids hostage for ransom, but Curry and Klay, and all these other stars dont have to worry?

Are some if you even reading what you are typing?

My goodness.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: jambr380 on November 07, 2017, 09:29:51 PM
Just because someone was arrested doesn't necessarily mean a crime was committed, right?

That's why I'm skeptical.

I know that most of the blog is rabid Laker haters (As I am) but something here seems fishy.

I absolutely agree with the bolded, but shoplifting seems pretty open and shut in most cases. I guess if law enforcement really did storm the hotel with 20 officers, then that seems a little crazy; however, I really don't [currently] think there is anything to this.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on November 07, 2017, 09:33:34 PM
The thought that the Chinese government decided to frame a group of fairly little known American college basketball players for little to no reason other than to effect a meeting between the country's leaders is pretty out there, if not comical. China isn't Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Niger or some other country filled with terror groups. Its a world power with no reason to provoke the United States.

The simple take on this is its ridiculously more likely that a group of immature American teenagers thought they could get away with shoplifting than it is a superpower decided to frame them to effect relationships with Trump and the USA.

Very glad to see some reason here.

So, they are going to hold LiAngelo Ball and other random college kids hostage for ransom, but Curry and Klay, and all these other stars dont have to worry?

Are some if you even reading what you are typing?

My goodness.

Are YOU?

As I stated before - I'm waiting until I see more information out there on this.

And I'm "doubling down", as is the common stance that folks take nowadays.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: wayupnorth on November 07, 2017, 09:35:59 PM
The thought that the Chinese government decided to frame a group of fairly little known American college basketball players for little to no reason other than to effect a meeting between the country's leaders is pretty out there, if not comical. China isn't Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Niger or some other country filled with terror groups. Its a world power with no reason to provoke the United States.

The simple take on this is its ridiculously more likely that a group of immature American teenagers thought they could get away with shoplifting than it is a superpower decided to frame them to effect relationships with Trump and the USA.

Very glad to see some reason here.

So, they are going to hold LiAngelo Ball and other random college kids hostage for ransom, but Curry and Klay, and all these other stars dont have to worry?

Are some if you even reading what you are typing?

My goodness.

Are YOU?

As I stated before - I'm waiting until I see more information out there on this.

And I'm "doubling down", as is the common stance that folks take nowadays.

Lol wow.

You go ahead and think Trump is somehow behind this.

Just know, you sound just like the fool's who thought Obama was behind every little bad thing that happened.

Seriously.

Makes it difficult to take your opinion on anything seriously.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on November 07, 2017, 09:42:22 PM
I don't think the Chinese would have a motive for waking up in the morning and just deciding to falsely arrest multiple UCLA athletes.

The motive would be for the Americans to have a good experience there.

If hypothetically the national Chinese ping pong team were to go to Boston do you think the BPD would conspire to arrest three of them falsely for no real reason?

C'mon Eja you know better that's not the same thing.

I simply don't trust this whole situation.

I'd rather for the dust to settle and more information to come out.

Has HUGE potential to be Fake News.

President Trump coined that phrase, not I.

AND speaking of Pres. Trump, whose RIGHT IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD..

You have got to be joking with this.

Do you know how irrational you sound?

Get a grip.

The SAME Chinese Government that's sponsored Hacking into our computer systems here in America.

I've got QUITE "the grip", if you will.

LOOK - I know that NO country is perfect and I ALSO know that we have had other former NBA players over there as well. These players haven't reportedly gotten into any trouble as far as we know.

When I was in the Navy and overseas in that area, "I" was approached by a foreign agent. I was warned about this prior to going on liberty - as was everyone onboard.

Now - is this the same as what these UCLA players are alleged to be caught up in? No, BUT - let's not assume that everything is crystal clear overseas.

As I've stated before - I'll wait until more information comes out.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on November 07, 2017, 09:49:38 PM
The thought that the Chinese government decided to frame a group of fairly little known American college basketball players for little to no reason other than to effect a meeting between the country's leaders is pretty out there, if not comical. China isn't Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Niger or some other country filled with terror groups. Its a world power with no reason to provoke the United States.

The simple take on this is its ridiculously more likely that a group of immature American teenagers thought they could get away with shoplifting than it is a superpower decided to frame them to effect relationships with Trump and the USA.

Very glad to see some reason here.

So, they are going to hold LiAngelo Ball and other random college kids hostage for ransom, but Curry and Klay, and all these other stars dont have to worry?

Are some if you even reading what you are typing?

My goodness.

Are YOU?

As I stated before - I'm waiting until I see more information out there on this.

And I'm "doubling down", as is the common stance that folks take nowadays.

Lol wow.

You go ahead and think Trump is somehow behind this.

Just know, you sound just like the fool's who thought Obama was behind every little bad thing that happened.

Seriously.

Makes it difficult to take your opinion on anything seriously.

CelticsElite was the first one to bring up Pres. Trump being in the area.

Why the personal attacks? I know that some here don't respect other POV but I do.

As far as what we've seen here recently in the media with the FBI investigation I'd rather wait until more information comes out.

Why don't you read the ENTIRE thread...

Why would TWENTY Chinese PO's storm a hotel for College Basketball players?
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on November 07, 2017, 09:52:46 PM
The thought that the Chinese government decided to frame a group of fairly little known American college basketball players for little to no reason other than to effect a meeting between the country's leaders is pretty out there, if not comical. China isn't Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Niger or some other country filled with terror groups. Its a world power with no reason to provoke the United States.

The simple take on this is its ridiculously more likely that a group of immature American teenagers thought they could get away with shoplifting than it is a superpower decided to frame them to effect relationships with Trump and the USA.

Like I've stated before - I'll wait until more information comes out.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: indeedproceed on November 07, 2017, 09:56:23 PM
The thought that the Chinese government decided to frame a group of fairly little known American college basketball players for little to no reason other than to effect a meeting between the country's leaders is pretty out there, if not comical. China isn't Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Niger or some other country filled with terror groups. Its a world power with no reason to provoke the United States.

The simple take on this is its ridiculously more likely that a group of immature American teenagers thought they could get away with shoplifting than it is a superpower decided to frame them to effect relationships with Trump and the USA.

Nailed it. TP.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: Phantom255x on November 07, 2017, 09:56:55 PM
YIKES.

LiAngelo and the others involved could face between 3-10 years of jail time for this  :o

And especially since it's in a foreign country, this could be disastrous...

And apparently they are setting up some LaVar Ball press conference from China to discuss this... REALLY?!?!  ::)

https://twitter.com/ArashMarkazi/status/928085944481271808
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: Roy H. on November 07, 2017, 10:22:50 PM
Breaking the law while in the US....not gonna end well.

Breaking the law while in another country....possibly disasterous. Just about the stupidest thing you can do if you're a US citizen.

Yeah. If they did this, it’s an incredibly bad decision. 

It’s probably antiquated, but I buy into the idea of acting like a guest in a foreign country. Respect their laws and customs and act humble.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: liam on November 07, 2017, 10:27:43 PM
Breaking the law while in the US....not gonna end well.

Breaking the law while in another country....possibly disasterous. Just about the stupidest thing you can do if you're a US citizen.

Yeah. If they did this, it’s an incredibly bad decision. 

It’s probably antiquated, but I buy into the idea of acting like a guest in a foreign country. Respect their laws and customs and act humble.

Yes, acting like a good guest everywhere you go is very good advice. Manners get you a long way in this world.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: liam on November 07, 2017, 10:29:30 PM
The thought that the Chinese government decided to frame a group of fairly little known American college basketball players for little to no reason other than to effect a meeting between the country's leaders is pretty out there, if not comical. China isn't Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Niger or some other country filled with terror groups. Its a world power with no reason to provoke the United States.

The simple take on this is its ridiculously more likely that a group of immature American teenagers thought they could get away with shoplifting than it is a superpower decided to frame them to effect relationships with Trump and the USA.

Very glad to see some reason here.

So, they are going to hold LiAngelo Ball and other random college kids hostage for ransom, but Curry and Klay, and all these other stars dont have to worry?

Are some if you even reading what you are typing?

My goodness.

Are YOU?

As I stated before - I'm waiting until I see more information out there on this.

And I'm "doubling down", as is the common stance that folks take nowadays.

Not to stir the pot but you are not waiting before you offer opinions. You are posting more than anyone on here and definitely not waiting.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on November 07, 2017, 10:37:15 PM
The thought that the Chinese government decided to frame a group of fairly little known American college basketball players for little to no reason other than to effect a meeting between the country's leaders is pretty out there, if not comical. China isn't Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Niger or some other country filled with terror groups. Its a world power with no reason to provoke the United States.

The simple take on this is its ridiculously more likely that a group of immature American teenagers thought they could get away with shoplifting than it is a superpower decided to frame them to effect relationships with Trump and the USA.

Very glad to see some reason here.

So, they are going to hold LiAngelo Ball and other random college kids hostage for ransom, but Curry and Klay, and all these other stars dont have to worry?

Are some if you even reading what you are typing?

My goodness.

Are YOU?

As I stated before - I'm waiting until I see more information out there on this.

And I'm "doubling down", as is the common stance that folks take nowadays.

Not to stir the pot but you are not waiting before you offer opinions. You are posting more than anyone on here and definitely not waiting.

I am simply responding (or trying to respond) to EVERYONE's posts on here, related to mine. Trying to answer EACH one, as if they were sitting there talking to me in person....as I've always done on here.

"THAT" is why I've posted more in this thread.

I've read this blog over the years (since 2005 or so) and have seen so many posters complain about their posts seemingly being ignored....large volume posters responding ONLY to "OTHER" large volume posters, etc etc.

Cliques.

I don't do cliques in real life nor digitally.

I try to respond to everyone. Don't make this out to be that I'm trying to do something that I'm not.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: Roy H. on November 07, 2017, 10:50:07 PM
lol I doubt that there's ANY truth to this, once everything comes to light.

Is there any evidence to believe it’s not true?

China is one of the most visited countries in the world. Tourism is a big part of their economy. I don’t think there’s a huge motive to fabricate this, but time will tell.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: Somebody on November 07, 2017, 11:06:18 PM
lol I doubt that there's ANY truth to this, once everything comes to light.

Is there any evidence to believe it’s not true?

China is one of the most visited countries in the world. Tourism is a big part of their economy. I don’t think there’s a huge motive to fabricate this, but time will tell.
It's probably not true, Chinese people are the worst to have around you, the claims are probably fabricated by some money starving shop (as an HKer I hear about this stuff a lot, eg. if you help a woman who "fainted" on the road you're probably gonna get charged for "stealing" her imaginary stuff/sexually assaulting her), but the good thing is that Chinese courts are very complicated...imo with the Ball family getting so much media attention, some under the table money would get Gelo off scot free.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: nickagneta on November 07, 2017, 11:17:46 PM
Greenfaith...you have always been a stand up guy in my book, I think you know that. I have great respect for your posts here. And yes, we should all wait for all the reports to come out in this case but, respectfully, I think you are reading more into this than there is. I think its pretty easy to see that a group of teenagers did something terribly stupid in a foreugn country.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on November 07, 2017, 11:20:31 PM
lol I doubt that there's ANY truth to this, once everything comes to light.

Is there any evidence to believe it’s not true?

China is one of the most visited countries in the world. Tourism is a big part of their economy. I don’t think there’s a huge motive to fabricate this, but time will tell.

Hong Kong is beautiful. People there are generally nice.

Each time we pulled in we HAD to go out with a buddy, and the more the merrier. This rule discouraged stuff like this from happening  - whether it was foreign opportunists, a shop looking to frame us, a shipmate drinking too much or acting stupid, or the like.

As Americans overseas we have a narrow window to operate in.

Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: manl_lui on November 07, 2017, 11:22:37 PM
lol I doubt that there's ANY truth to this, once everything comes to light.

Is there any evidence to believe it’s not true?

China is one of the most visited countries in the world. Tourism is a big part of their economy. I don’t think there’s a huge motive to fabricate this, but time will tell.
It's probably not true, Chinese people are the worst to have around you, the claims are probably fabricated by some money starving shop (as an HKer I hear about this stuff a lot, eg. if you help a woman who "fainted" on the road you're probably gonna get charged for "stealing" her imaginary stuff/sexually assaulting her), but the good thing is that Chinese courts are very complicated...imo with the Ball family getting so much media attention, some under the table money would get Gelo off scot free.

my parents are HKers as well and I do hear a lot about these also. With that said, I am also on the line of, these kids are playing ball in China with their school, so they are pretty well represented . I think the chances of this story being fabricated is not likely even given the relationship between the US or China. China is not a 3rd world country, it's booming in economy and is a huge tourist destination, I don't believe this has to do with that. Even if that was the case, I would assume this to happen to a nobody or regular tourist and not a student athlete.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on November 07, 2017, 11:29:25 PM
Greenfaith...you have always been a stand up guy in my book, I think you know that. I have great respect for your posts here. And yes, we should all wait for all the reports to come out in this case but, respectfully, I think you are reading more into this than there is. I think its pretty easy to see that a group of teenagers did something terribly stupid in a foreugn country.

This is what I'm fearing but I'm holding out hope.

If they did it, then they should suffer the consequences.

If not, then they'll be set free and go on about their lives.

And the sad thing is that no apologies will be given - as is the case most of the time.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: Emmette Bryant on November 08, 2017, 12:08:58 AM
Breaking the law while in the US....not gonna end well.

Breaking the law while in another country....possibly disasterous. Just about the stupidest thing you can do if you're a US citizen.

Yeah. If they did this, it’s an incredibly bad decision. 

It’s probably antiquated, but I buy into the idea of acting like a guest in a foreign country. Respect their laws and customs and act humble.

Yes, acting like a good guest everywhere you go is very good advice. Manners get you a long way in this world.

Nah, when I go to a foreign country I eat at McDonalds and tell all the locals how lame they are.

 :)
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: liam on November 08, 2017, 01:08:48 AM
Breaking the law while in the US....not gonna end well.

Breaking the law while in another country....possibly disasterous. Just about the stupidest thing you can do if you're a US citizen.

Yeah. If they did this, it’s an incredibly bad decision. 

It’s probably antiquated, but I buy into the idea of acting like a guest in a foreign country. Respect their laws and customs and act humble.

Yes, acting like a good guest everywhere you go is very good advice. Manners get you a long way in this world.

Nah, when I go to a foreign country I eat at McDonalds and tell all the locals how lame they are.

 :)

That's how POTUS does...
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: CelticsElite on November 08, 2017, 01:11:35 AM
He could be facing 3-10 years in prison: http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2017/11/07/report-arrested-ucla-players-in-china-could-face-prison-time/


Nice job committing crime in a harsh punishing communist country
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: SparzWizard on November 08, 2017, 01:16:05 AM
Lavar Ball's son got what he deserved- shoplifting.

His other son is about to get the defeat of a lifetime tomorrow. "Lonzo Wednesday" headline...pure disrespect to my Celtics and that is unacceptable.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: KGs Knee on November 08, 2017, 01:21:21 AM
He could be facing 3-10 years in prison: http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2017/11/07/report-arrested-ucla-players-in-china-could-face-prison-time/


Nice job committing crime in a harsh punishing communist country

Yeah, that won't happen.

I don't think China has any interest in making a spectacle here.  It wouldn't be a very smart move.  More likely China makes them pay restitution, and tell them never to come back.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: KG Living Legend on November 08, 2017, 01:44:38 AM
Greenfaith...you have always been a stand up guy in my book, I think you know that. I have great respect for your posts here. And yes, we should all wait for all the reports to come out in this case but, respectfully, I think you are reading more into this than there is. I think its pretty easy to see that a group of teenagers did something terribly stupid in a foreugn country.

This is what I'm fearing but I'm holding out hope.

If they did it, then they should suffer the consequences.

If not, then they'll be set free and go on about their lives.

And the sad thing is that no apologies will be given - as is the case most of the time.




 Now they are saying that Lavar ball is shooting the TV show a hundred miles away in China this makes me think that it's all a publicity stunt.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: TA9 on November 08, 2017, 02:42:01 AM
Im kinda trying to imagine how LaVar is going to try to talk/tweet his way out of this.

"If my kid were actually a shop lifter he'd never have been caught. He'd be the best shop lifter ever."

"I myself shop lifted $2 million dollars of shoes in China once. It's no big deal."

"LiAngelo wouldn't shop lift cause I never showed him how. I prioritized his jumper, which is why he has the best jumper in college ball Day 1"

"The President of China Trump-Li has called me to apologize for all this"

"Ain't never gonna order take out again. #boycottChina #FreeLiAngelo"

"LiAngelo tells me he didn't do it and his friends were just trying to find ways to pay for their text books #payathletes"

"Can't believe I'm gonna have to fly 80 hours nonstop to China to straighten this all out. Is AirForceOne available?"
Hahaha, TP those are funny.

I'll try to continue:

"My boy is already leading the league in steals"

"Nobody does prison like my son"

And my favorite:

"Son, remember when you are in China if it's not labeled Big Baller Brand, it doesn't deserve a price tag."


Lavar should rebrand Big Baller Brand to Big Burglar Brand after this ;D
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: Androslav on November 08, 2017, 04:08:46 AM
One thing is evident, Big Baller Brand boy sure has some Big Balls to shoplift in China.
Staying true to his brand until prison separates them.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: TA9 on November 08, 2017, 05:07:05 AM
Lavar trying to downplay the situation, lol:
Quote
LaVar Ball commented the arrest of his son: "He'll be fine," he said. "Everyone's making it a big deal. It ain't that big a deal."
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: Roy H. on November 08, 2017, 06:39:58 AM
He’s already out on bail, which apparently is pretty unusual in China.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: tazzmaniac on November 08, 2017, 08:27:31 AM
He’s already out on bail, which apparently is pretty unusual in China.
The average Chinese citizen would still be rotting in jail but probably not unusual for a "foreign celebrity". 
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: hwangjini_1 on November 08, 2017, 08:35:41 AM
He’s already out on bail, which apparently is pretty unusual in China.
The average Chinese citizen would still be rotting in jail but probably not unusual for a "foreign celebrity".
You really don’t know much about China, do you? 

And are you implying that in places such as the US police do not put shoplifters in jail?
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: eja117 on November 08, 2017, 04:23:18 PM
My understanding is that LiAngelo will have to stay in China at least a month while this process plays out.


I'll give Green Faith one thing.....does anyone know where Big Baller Brand is made? China? Vietnam? Taiwan?

I wonder if China has any version of probation or parole
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: KG Living Legend on November 08, 2017, 05:00:55 PM

 Can they still do Beheadings over there? I joke, I joke.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: saltlover on November 08, 2017, 05:03:13 PM
My understanding is that LiAngelo will have to stay in China at least a month while this process plays out.


I'll give Green Faith one thing.....does anyone know where Big Baller Brand is made? China? Vietnam? Taiwan?

I wonder if China has any version of probation or parole

According to this article from the LA Times, officials have a bit over a month to decide whether to formally arrest him, and if they choose to do that, two additional months with which to file formal charges (which would result in a trial).  But the process can move more quickly.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-ucla-ball-china-20171108-story,amp.html (http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-ucla-ball-china-20171108-story,amp.html)
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: SHAQATTACK on November 08, 2017, 05:07:12 PM

 Can they still do Beheadings over there? I joke, I joke.

they won't manufacture their crummie shoes......thats worrying Lavar more than anything ......cancel his shoe contract......then what will he do. .....make em in USA for 1200.00 a pair
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on November 08, 2017, 05:26:03 PM
I'll say this, though -

I apologize.

I took CelticsElite bait and went somewhere with a Trump conspiracy that I should NOT have done.

It was foolish.

With THAT being said -

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNwTe2dVoAAIhzr.jpg)

I'm thankful that I'm not the ONLY one who is prone to foolishness...............
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: CelticsElite on November 08, 2017, 06:01:04 PM
^ lol


So as a condition of the bail liangelo has to stay in China until the investigation is over

LaVar looking like he hasn’t slept: http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=21334370
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on November 08, 2017, 06:06:48 PM
Well, at least it wasn't North Korea.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: KG Living Legend on November 08, 2017, 06:22:58 PM

 How much would it cost to smuggle him home Illegally. Maybe you could send him home in a shipping container.

 Can you FedEx him Overnight??
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: azzenfrost on November 08, 2017, 06:32:51 PM
His dad can't talk him out of this bind.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: Celtics4ever on November 08, 2017, 06:35:57 PM
This is about as dumb as it gets.   I wonder if he ever heard of Otto Warmbier?  Granted it was China and not North Korea but the same thing could have happened.   This kind gets a Blue Ribbon Medal for idiocy.  His dad is worth 4 million go ask him for some dough.  Hard to believe, eh?

https://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-athletes/nfl/lavar-ball-net-worth/
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: Somebody on November 08, 2017, 06:58:49 PM
lol I doubt that there's ANY truth to this, once everything comes to light.

Is there any evidence to believe it’s not true?

China is one of the most visited countries in the world. Tourism is a big part of their economy. I don’t think there’s a huge motive to fabricate this, but time will tell.
It's probably not true, Chinese people are the worst to have around you, the claims are probably fabricated by some money starving shop (as an HKer I hear about this stuff a lot, eg. if you help a woman who "fainted" on the road you're probably gonna get charged for "stealing" her imaginary stuff/sexually assaulting her), but the good thing is that Chinese courts are very complicated...imo with the Ball family getting so much media attention, some under the table money would get Gelo off scot free.

my parents are HKers as well and I do hear a lot about these also. With that said, I am also on the line of, these kids are playing ball in China with their school, so they are pretty well represented . I think the chances of this story being fabricated is not likely even given the relationship between the US or China. China is not a 3rd world country, it's booming in economy and is a huge tourist destination, I don't believe this has to do with that. Even if that was the case, I would assume this to happen to a nobody or regular tourist and not a student athlete.
I think it's very possible, the stories that fly around about Chinese people doing literally anything for money are well documented and the kids being well known only helps them to get a bit more dough. Btw it's not the Chinese gov I'm talking about, it's the shop that got "shoplifted".
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: wayupnorth on November 08, 2017, 07:15:21 PM
He’s already out on bail, which apparently is pretty unusual in China.
The average Chinese citizen would still be rotting in jail but probably not unusual for a "foreign celebrity".
You really don’t know much about China, do you? 

And are you implying that in places such as the US police do not put shoplifters in jail?

Lol you are kidding, right?

For any issues the US justice system has, China is far, far worse.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: Roy H. on November 08, 2017, 07:20:28 PM
lol I doubt that there's ANY truth to this, once everything comes to light.

Is there any evidence to believe it’s not true?

China is one of the most visited countries in the world. Tourism is a big part of their economy. I don’t think there’s a huge motive to fabricate this, but time will tell.
It's probably not true, Chinese people are the worst to have around you, the claims are probably fabricated by some money starving shop (as an HKer I hear about this stuff a lot, eg. if you help a woman who "fainted" on the road you're probably gonna get charged for "stealing" her imaginary stuff/sexually assaulting her), but the good thing is that Chinese courts are very complicated...imo with the Ball family getting so much media attention, some under the table money would get Gelo off scot free.

my parents are HKers as well and I do hear a lot about these also. With that said, I am also on the line of, these kids are playing ball in China with their school, so they are pretty well represented . I think the chances of this story being fabricated is not likely even given the relationship between the US or China. China is not a 3rd world country, it's booming in economy and is a huge tourist destination, I don't believe this has to do with that. Even if that was the case, I would assume this to happen to a nobody or regular tourist and not a student athlete.
I think it's very possible, the stories that fly around about Chinese people doing literally anything for money are well documented and the kids being well known only helps them to get a bit more dough. Btw it's not the Chinese gov I'm talking about, it's the shop that got "shoplifted".

Wasn’t it a Louis Vuitton retail shop in a luxury area? I doubt they’re that desperate to make a buck.

And please be careful about stereotypes regarding “Chinese people”.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: tazzmaniac on November 11, 2017, 11:26:47 AM
Apparently they have surveillance footage of them shoplifting from 3 high-end stores.  Of course, they probably found the goods they stole too.  What a bunch of idiots. 

It'll be interesting to see how UCLA handles this.  To do this on a team trip to a foreign country, I'd probably dismiss them from the team assuming the story is accurate.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaabk/report-ucla-players-stole-from-three-stores-in-china-will-not-fly-back-with-team/ar-BBEPFId?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=ientp
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: kozlodoev on November 11, 2017, 11:38:41 AM
Apparently they have surveillance footage of them shoplifting from 3 high-end stores.  Of course, they probably found the goods they stole too.  What a bunch of idiots. 

It'll be interesting to see how UCLA handles this.  To do this on a team trip to a foreign country, I'd probably dismiss them from the team assuming the story is accurate.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaabk/report-ucla-players-stole-from-three-stores-in-china-will-not-fly-back-with-team/ar-BBEPFId?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=ientp
I did some dumb things in college, but this is monumental.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: Moranis on November 11, 2017, 11:43:09 AM
I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: KGs Knee on November 11, 2017, 12:05:30 PM
I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

Being that it is a member of the Ball family involved life in prison without parole sounds fair. I think as part of the punishment, the rest of the family should also be sent to spend the rest of their lives in a Chinese prison. I mean, China would be doing the world a favor.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: footey on November 11, 2017, 12:19:44 PM
I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

But he allegedly committed the crime in China. That is the proper jurisdiction.

Caught on video tape no less.

While Chinese law far tougher, the Ali Baba influence should diminish any sentencing to a slap on the wrist.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: PaulAllen on November 11, 2017, 01:05:02 PM
If he was arrested under Sharia Law his hand would be cut off...
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: hwangjini_1 on November 11, 2017, 01:53:26 PM
I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

really?

The maximum sentence for stealing goods in China varies, depending on the value of what has been alleged to be stolen. Stealing goods worth between 1,000 and 2,500 yuan ($150 to $380), for example, comes with a maximum sentence of six months but could result in merely a fine.

Anyone convicted of stealing goods for more than that amount, however, would face jail time. Someone convicted of stealing goods worth between 7,000 and 10,000 yuan ($1,050 to $1,510) would face between two and three years in jail under Chinese law.

Louis Vuitton men’s sunglasses cost $435 to $1,990, according to the company’s U.S. website.


and in california...

According to statistics from the California Department of Corrections, thousands of individuals are serving life sentences under California's three strikes law for nonviolent third strikes—in fact, 360 individuals in California are serving life sentences for shoplifting small amounts of merchandise. California is one of twenty-six states nationally with a three strikes law, but California's is the harshest in that the third strike need not be a serious or violent felony-any felony, even shoplifting, can be the basis for a life sentence.

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol31_2004/winter2004/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: hwangjini_1 on November 11, 2017, 01:57:39 PM
If he was arrested under Sharia Law his hand would be cut off...
only the nut cases. the vast majority of muslims do not do this. sigh.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: Moranis on November 11, 2017, 02:28:16 PM
I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

really?

The maximum sentence for stealing goods in China varies, depending on the value of what has been alleged to be stolen. Stealing goods worth between 1,000 and 2,500 yuan ($150 to $380), for example, comes with a maximum sentence of six months but could result in merely a fine.

Anyone convicted of stealing goods for more than that amount, however, would face jail time. Someone convicted of stealing goods worth between 7,000 and 10,000 yuan ($1,050 to $1,510) would face between two and three years in jail under Chinese law.

Louis Vuitton men’s sunglasses cost $435 to $1,990, according to the company’s U.S. website.


and in california...

According to statistics from the California Department of Corrections, thousands of individuals are serving life sentences under California's three strikes law for nonviolent third strikes—in fact, 360 individuals in California are serving life sentences for shoplifting small amounts of merchandise. California is one of twenty-six states nationally with a three strikes law, but California's is the harshest in that the third strike need not be a serious or violent felony-any felony, even shoplifting, can be the basis for a life sentence.

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol31_2004/winter2004/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html
2 to 3 years in jail for shop lifting is incredibly harsh. That is the point I was making. I think I read somewhere the value stolen woild be a 3 to 10 year sentence under Chinese law. That is just way to harsh.  It doesn't excuse the offense bit of rather see an American level penalty
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: CelticsElite on November 11, 2017, 02:38:19 PM
If he was arrested under Sharia Law his hand would be cut off...
only the nut cases. the vast majority of muslims do not do this. sigh.
do you have a source for the “vast majority” statement? Last I checked 12 Muslim countries follow sharia law including Saudi Arabia
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: kozlodoev on November 11, 2017, 04:33:29 PM
If he was arrested under Sharia Law his hand would be cut off...
only the nut cases. the vast majority of muslims do not do this. sigh.
do you have a source for the “vast majority” statement? Last I checked 12 Muslim countries follow sharia law including Saudi Arabia
First source: not being an ostrich and actually having a clue what the heck is going on in the rest of the world.

Second source: a literature review from the proceeds of a recent symposium on amputation surgery and rehabilitation. There are 5-6 countries listed, most of them would be habitually described as "Third World".

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4160514/
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: eja117 on November 11, 2017, 08:12:48 PM
I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

really?

The maximum sentence for stealing goods in China varies, depending on the value of what has been alleged to be stolen. Stealing goods worth between 1,000 and 2,500 yuan ($150 to $380), for example, comes with a maximum sentence of six months but could result in merely a fine.

Anyone convicted of stealing goods for more than that amount, however, would face jail time. Someone convicted of stealing goods worth between 7,000 and 10,000 yuan ($1,050 to $1,510) would face between two and three years in jail under Chinese law.

Louis Vuitton men’s sunglasses cost $435 to $1,990, according to the company’s U.S. website.


and in california...

According to statistics from the California Department of Corrections, thousands of individuals are serving life sentences under California's three strikes law for nonviolent third strikes—in fact, 360 individuals in California are serving life sentences for shoplifting small amounts of merchandise. California is one of twenty-six states nationally with a three strikes law, but California's is the harshest in that the third strike need not be a serious or violent felony-any felony, even shoplifting, can be the basis for a life sentence.

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol31_2004/winter2004/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html
2 to 3 years in jail for shop lifting is incredibly harsh. That is the point I was making. I think I read somewhere the value stolen woild be a 3 to 10 year sentence under Chinese law. That is just way to harsh.  It doesn't excuse the offense bit of rather see an American level penalty
No sympathy for thieves. None.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: eja117 on November 12, 2017, 08:46:52 AM
I just want to point out Hangzhou China is Boston's sister city. Nobody messes with my sister city. Nobody. Especially not some Laker loving punk.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: SHAQATTACK on November 12, 2017, 09:49:14 AM
If he was arrested under Sharia Law his hand would be cut off...

that would make basketball slightly more challenging
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: jambr380 on November 12, 2017, 10:40:25 AM
I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

really?

The maximum sentence for stealing goods in China varies, depending on the value of what has been alleged to be stolen. Stealing goods worth between 1,000 and 2,500 yuan ($150 to $380), for example, comes with a maximum sentence of six months but could result in merely a fine.

Anyone convicted of stealing goods for more than that amount, however, would face jail time. Someone convicted of stealing goods worth between 7,000 and 10,000 yuan ($1,050 to $1,510) would face between two and three years in jail under Chinese law.

Louis Vuitton men’s sunglasses cost $435 to $1,990, according to the company’s U.S. website.


and in california...

According to statistics from the California Department of Corrections, thousands of individuals are serving life sentences under California's three strikes law for nonviolent third strikes—in fact, 360 individuals in California are serving life sentences for shoplifting small amounts of merchandise. California is one of twenty-six states nationally with a three strikes law, but California's is the harshest in that the third strike need not be a serious or violent felony-any felony, even shoplifting, can be the basis for a life sentence.

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol31_2004/winter2004/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html
2 to 3 years in jail for shop lifting is incredibly harsh. That is the point I was making. I think I read somewhere the value stolen woild be a 3 to 10 year sentence under Chinese law. That is just way to harsh.  It doesn't excuse the offense bit of rather see an American level penalty
No sympathy for thieves. None.

Really? You think somebody who shoplifts deserves jail time? Whether it be China or the US, this is not a crime that should be treated very seriously. Armed robbery is one thing, but an 18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses is nothing.

Another member of CB has a quote has his signature by George W Bush (how times have changed where I can speak positively of Bush) where he says often we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Humans are not perfect - we all make mistakes and this is incredibly minor in the grand scheme of things. As much as I dislike what the Ball family represents, I really hope this falls by the wayside sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: hwangjini_1 on November 12, 2017, 10:57:56 AM
I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

really?

The maximum sentence for stealing goods in China varies, depending on the value of what has been alleged to be stolen. Stealing goods worth between 1,000 and 2,500 yuan ($150 to $380), for example, comes with a maximum sentence of six months but could result in merely a fine.

Anyone convicted of stealing goods for more than that amount, however, would face jail time. Someone convicted of stealing goods worth between 7,000 and 10,000 yuan ($1,050 to $1,510) would face between two and three years in jail under Chinese law.

Louis Vuitton men’s sunglasses cost $435 to $1,990, according to the company’s U.S. website.


and in california...

According to statistics from the California Department of Corrections, thousands of individuals are serving life sentences under California's three strikes law for nonviolent third strikes—in fact, 360 individuals in California are serving life sentences for shoplifting small amounts of merchandise. California is one of twenty-six states nationally with a three strikes law, but California's is the harshest in that the third strike need not be a serious or violent felony-any felony, even shoplifting, can be the basis for a life sentence.

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol31_2004/winter2004/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html
2 to 3 years in jail for shop lifting is incredibly harsh. That is the point I was making. I think I read somewhere the value stolen woild be a 3 to 10 year sentence under Chinese law. That is just way to harsh.  It doesn't excuse the offense bit of rather see an American level penalty
hee hee. you would rather see an american level penalty - such as life in prison mentioned above? i agree prison time for kids shoplifting is severe in any country.

by the way, in the US:
1. In the past 30 years, the United States has come to rely on imprisonment as its response
to all types of crime. Even minor violations of parole or probation often lead
to a return to prison. This has created a prison system of unprecedented size in this
country.
2. The US incarcerates the largest number of people in the world.
3. The incarceration rate in the US is four times the world average.
4. Some individual US states imprison up to six times as many people as do
nations of comparable population.
5. The US imprisons the most women in the world.
6. Crime rates do not account for incarceration rates.

https://www.nccdglobal.org/sites/default/files/publication_pdf/factsheet-us-incarceration.pdf

by the way, what penalty has ball received from the chinese state thus far? i read that he, and the others, are stuck in their hotel for a few weeks and can never come back to china without permission.

my basic points for all of the above would be that
1. ball should not have done what he did. incredibly bad judgement and thinking. i hope he can see that now and change. has he apologized so far? and what will his father make of all this?
2. being punished for shoplifting is understandable. jail time is not, in my mind. China has delivered punishment that does not include jail time. good for them on this point.
3. before anyone actually compares prison/crime/legal systems between countries, it is probably wise to do some research prior to posting.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: Roy H. on November 12, 2017, 11:00:31 AM
I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

really?

The maximum sentence for stealing goods in China varies, depending on the value of what has been alleged to be stolen. Stealing goods worth between 1,000 and 2,500 yuan ($150 to $380), for example, comes with a maximum sentence of six months but could result in merely a fine.

Anyone convicted of stealing goods for more than that amount, however, would face jail time. Someone convicted of stealing goods worth between 7,000 and 10,000 yuan ($1,050 to $1,510) would face between two and three years in jail under Chinese law.

Louis Vuitton men’s sunglasses cost $435 to $1,990, according to the company’s U.S. website.


and in california...

According to statistics from the California Department of Corrections, thousands of individuals are serving life sentences under California's three strikes law for nonviolent third strikes—in fact, 360 individuals in California are serving life sentences for shoplifting small amounts of merchandise. California is one of twenty-six states nationally with a three strikes law, but California's is the harshest in that the third strike need not be a serious or violent felony-any felony, even shoplifting, can be the basis for a life sentence.

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol31_2004/winter2004/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html
2 to 3 years in jail for shop lifting is incredibly harsh. That is the point I was making. I think I read somewhere the value stolen woild be a 3 to 10 year sentence under Chinese law. That is just way to harsh.  It doesn't excuse the offense bit of rather see an American level penalty
No sympathy for thieves. None.

Really? You think somebody who shoplifts deserves jail time? Whether it be China or the US, this is not a crime that should be treated very seriously. Armed robbery is one thing, but an 18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses is nothing.

Another member of CB has a quote has his signature by George W Bush (how times have changed where I can speak positively of Bush) where he says often we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Humans are not perfect - we all make mistakes and this is incredibly minor in the grand scheme of things. As much as I dislike what the Ball family represents, I really hope this falls by the wayside sooner rather than later.

Not all shoplifting is created equal. Stealing from Gucci and Louis Vuitton isn’t the same as taking some plastic glasses from Walmart.

In Maine, stealing up to $500 is a Class E misdemeanor, punishable by up to 6 months (but usually a fine for a 1st offense).  $500 - $999 is a Class D misdemeanor, punishable by up to 364 Days, but again, usually a fine for a first offense.  Over $1000 is a felony, though, and can include sentences up to five years. Even a first offense usually has a short sentence, with further probation (and jail / prison time possible for probation violations).

Obviously, repeat offenders are treated more harshly. A third offense, no matter the value, can be charged as a felony.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: jambr380 on November 12, 2017, 11:32:32 AM
I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

really?

The maximum sentence for stealing goods in China varies, depending on the value of what has been alleged to be stolen. Stealing goods worth between 1,000 and 2,500 yuan ($150 to $380), for example, comes with a maximum sentence of six months but could result in merely a fine.

Anyone convicted of stealing goods for more than that amount, however, would face jail time. Someone convicted of stealing goods worth between 7,000 and 10,000 yuan ($1,050 to $1,510) would face between two and three years in jail under Chinese law.

Louis Vuitton men’s sunglasses cost $435 to $1,990, according to the company’s U.S. website.


and in california...

According to statistics from the California Department of Corrections, thousands of individuals are serving life sentences under California's three strikes law for nonviolent third strikes—in fact, 360 individuals in California are serving life sentences for shoplifting small amounts of merchandise. California is one of twenty-six states nationally with a three strikes law, but California's is the harshest in that the third strike need not be a serious or violent felony-any felony, even shoplifting, can be the basis for a life sentence.

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol31_2004/winter2004/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html
2 to 3 years in jail for shop lifting is incredibly harsh. That is the point I was making. I think I read somewhere the value stolen woild be a 3 to 10 year sentence under Chinese law. That is just way to harsh.  It doesn't excuse the offense bit of rather see an American level penalty
No sympathy for thieves. None.

Really? You think somebody who shoplifts deserves jail time? Whether it be China or the US, this is not a crime that should be treated very seriously. Armed robbery is one thing, but an 18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses is nothing.

Another member of CB has a quote has his signature by George W Bush (how times have changed where I can speak positively of Bush) where he says often we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Humans are not perfect - we all make mistakes and this is incredibly minor in the grand scheme of things. As much as I dislike what the Ball family represents, I really hope this falls by the wayside sooner rather than later.

Not all shoplifting is created equal. Stealing from Gucci and Louis Vuitton isn’t the same as taking some plastic glasses from Walmart.

In Maine, stealing up to $500 is a Class E misdemeanor, punishable by up to 6 months (but usually a fine for a 1st offense).  $500 - $999 is a Class D misdemeanor, punishable by up to 364 Days, but again, usually a fine for a first offense.  Over $1000 is a felony, though, and can include sentences up to five years. Even a first offense usually has a short sentence, with further probation (and jail / prison time possible for probation violations).

Obviously, repeat offenders are treated more harshly. A third offense, no matter the value, can be charged as a felony.

Thanks for providing the specifics and I generally agree with what you have said. Of course, the value of said merchandise plays a large role in a given judgment, I just don't think what these 'stupid' kids did warrants jail time. The U.S. likes to punish people and others often point their fingers and shake their heads yelling, 'shame!' as if they've never done anything wrong before. Not all crimes are the same and this one is about as 'lower end' as they get.

First time offenders for anything like this should get a lower end Misdemeanor which should be able to be expunged from their record after a couple of years with good behavior.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: eja117 on November 12, 2017, 11:55:14 AM
I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

really?

The maximum sentence for stealing goods in China varies, depending on the value of what has been alleged to be stolen. Stealing goods worth between 1,000 and 2,500 yuan ($150 to $380), for example, comes with a maximum sentence of six months but could result in merely a fine.

Anyone convicted of stealing goods for more than that amount, however, would face jail time. Someone convicted of stealing goods worth between 7,000 and 10,000 yuan ($1,050 to $1,510) would face between two and three years in jail under Chinese law.

Louis Vuitton men’s sunglasses cost $435 to $1,990, according to the company’s U.S. website.


and in california...

According to statistics from the California Department of Corrections, thousands of individuals are serving life sentences under California's three strikes law for nonviolent third strikes—in fact, 360 individuals in California are serving life sentences for shoplifting small amounts of merchandise. California is one of twenty-six states nationally with a three strikes law, but California's is the harshest in that the third strike need not be a serious or violent felony-any felony, even shoplifting, can be the basis for a life sentence.

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol31_2004/winter2004/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html
2 to 3 years in jail for shop lifting is incredibly harsh. That is the point I was making. I think I read somewhere the value stolen woild be a 3 to 10 year sentence under Chinese law. That is just way to harsh.  It doesn't excuse the offense bit of rather see an American level penalty
No sympathy for thieves. None.

Really? You think somebody who shoplifts deserves jail time? Whether it be China or the US, this is not a crime that should be treated very seriously. Armed robbery is one thing, but an 18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses is nothing.

Another member of CB has a quote has his signature by George W Bush (how times have changed where I can speak positively of Bush) where he says often we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Humans are not perfect - we all make mistakes and this is incredibly minor in the grand scheme of things. As much as I dislike what the Ball family represents, I really hope this falls by the wayside sooner rather than later.
Well let's not judge China by their worst example then.

This reminds me of the American kid that got caned in Singapore. The official position of the US was that the damage the kid did to the cars was temporary while his punishment would leave permanent scars and therefore it was inappropriate. In very different and very polite words Singapore basically responded "Yeah, but our cities are gorgeous while yours look like crud and maybe this has something to do with it."
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: SHAQATTACK on November 12, 2017, 11:59:41 AM
Lavar might have th sell his new house to get his boy out of jail.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: RockinRyA on November 12, 2017, 12:03:23 PM
I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

really?

The maximum sentence for stealing goods in China varies, depending on the value of what has been alleged to be stolen. Stealing goods worth between 1,000 and 2,500 yuan ($150 to $380), for example, comes with a maximum sentence of six months but could result in merely a fine.

Anyone convicted of stealing goods for more than that amount, however, would face jail time. Someone convicted of stealing goods worth between 7,000 and 10,000 yuan ($1,050 to $1,510) would face between two and three years in jail under Chinese law.

Louis Vuitton men’s sunglasses cost $435 to $1,990, according to the company’s U.S. website.


and in california...

According to statistics from the California Department of Corrections, thousands of individuals are serving life sentences under California's three strikes law for nonviolent third strikes—in fact, 360 individuals in California are serving life sentences for shoplifting small amounts of merchandise. California is one of twenty-six states nationally with a three strikes law, but California's is the harshest in that the third strike need not be a serious or violent felony-any felony, even shoplifting, can be the basis for a life sentence.

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol31_2004/winter2004/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html
2 to 3 years in jail for shop lifting is incredibly harsh. That is the point I was making. I think I read somewhere the value stolen woild be a 3 to 10 year sentence under Chinese law. That is just way to harsh.  It doesn't excuse the offense bit of rather see an American level penalty
No sympathy for thieves. None.

Really? You think somebody who shoplifts deserves jail time? Whether it be China or the US, this is not a crime that should be treated very seriously. Armed robbery is one thing, but an 18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses is nothing.

Another member of CB has a quote has his signature by George W Bush (how times have changed where I can speak positively of Bush) where he says often we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Humans are not perfect - we all make mistakes and this is incredibly minor in the grand scheme of things. As much as I dislike what the Ball family represents, I really hope this falls by the wayside sooner rather than later.

I do. Shoplifters are no different from Snatchers, and they too deserve it.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: Eddie20 on November 12, 2017, 12:06:07 PM
I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

really?

The maximum sentence for stealing goods in China varies, depending on the value of what has been alleged to be stolen. Stealing goods worth between 1,000 and 2,500 yuan ($150 to $380), for example, comes with a maximum sentence of six months but could result in merely a fine.

Anyone convicted of stealing goods for more than that amount, however, would face jail time. Someone convicted of stealing goods worth between 7,000 and 10,000 yuan ($1,050 to $1,510) would face between two and three years in jail under Chinese law.

Louis Vuitton men’s sunglasses cost $435 to $1,990, according to the company’s U.S. website.


and in california...

According to statistics from the California Department of Corrections, thousands of individuals are serving life sentences under California's three strikes law for nonviolent third strikes—in fact, 360 individuals in California are serving life sentences for shoplifting small amounts of merchandise. California is one of twenty-six states nationally with a three strikes law, but California's is the harshest in that the third strike need not be a serious or violent felony-any felony, even shoplifting, can be the basis for a life sentence.

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol31_2004/winter2004/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html
2 to 3 years in jail for shop lifting is incredibly harsh. That is the point I was making. I think I read somewhere the value stolen woild be a 3 to 10 year sentence under Chinese law. That is just way to harsh.  It doesn't excuse the offense bit of rather see an American level penalty
No sympathy for thieves. None.

Really? You think somebody who shoplifts deserves jail time? Whether it be China or the US, this is not a crime that should be treated very seriously. Armed robbery is one thing, but an 18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses is nothing.

Another member of CB has a quote has his signature by George W Bush (how times have changed where I can speak positively of Bush) where he says often we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Humans are not perfect - we all make mistakes and this is incredibly minor in the grand scheme of things. As much as I dislike what the Ball family represents, I really hope this falls by the wayside sooner rather than later.

Not all shoplifting is created equal. Stealing from Gucci and Louis Vuitton isn’t the same as taking some plastic glasses from Walmart.

In Maine, stealing up to $500 is a Class E misdemeanor, punishable by up to 6 months (but usually a fine for a 1st offense).  $500 - $999 is a Class D misdemeanor, punishable by up to 364 Days, but again, usually a fine for a first offense.  Over $1000 is a felony, though, and can include sentences up to five years. Even a first offense usually has a short sentence, with further probation (and jail / prison time possible for probation violations).

Obviously, repeat offenders are treated more harshly. A third offense, no matter the value, can be charged as a felony.

They're awfully lenient in Maine. For theft in Florida $300 and up is a felony.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: eja117 on November 12, 2017, 12:10:48 PM
I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

really?

The maximum sentence for stealing goods in China varies, depending on the value of what has been alleged to be stolen. Stealing goods worth between 1,000 and 2,500 yuan ($150 to $380), for example, comes with a maximum sentence of six months but could result in merely a fine.

Anyone convicted of stealing goods for more than that amount, however, would face jail time. Someone convicted of stealing goods worth between 7,000 and 10,000 yuan ($1,050 to $1,510) would face between two and three years in jail under Chinese law.

Louis Vuitton men’s sunglasses cost $435 to $1,990, according to the company’s U.S. website.


and in california...

According to statistics from the California Department of Corrections, thousands of individuals are serving life sentences under California's three strikes law for nonviolent third strikes—in fact, 360 individuals in California are serving life sentences for shoplifting small amounts of merchandise. California is one of twenty-six states nationally with a three strikes law, but California's is the harshest in that the third strike need not be a serious or violent felony-any felony, even shoplifting, can be the basis for a life sentence.

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol31_2004/winter2004/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html
2 to 3 years in jail for shop lifting is incredibly harsh. That is the point I was making. I think I read somewhere the value stolen woild be a 3 to 10 year sentence under Chinese law. That is just way to harsh.  It doesn't excuse the offense bit of rather see an American level penalty
No sympathy for thieves. None.

Really? You think somebody who shoplifts deserves jail time? Whether it be China or the US, this is not a crime that should be treated very seriously. Armed robbery is one thing, but an 18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses is nothing.

Another member of CB has a quote has his signature by George W Bush (how times have changed where I can speak positively of Bush) where he says often we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Humans are not perfect - we all make mistakes and this is incredibly minor in the grand scheme of things. As much as I dislike what the Ball family represents, I really hope this falls by the wayside sooner rather than later.

I do. Shoplifters are no different from Snatchers, and they too deserve it.
They aren't different from burglars or car thieves either.  In some states if an owner catches you in their home they can just blow your head off.  Good law. Very straightforward natural consequence. This is why burglary is so much higher in the UK and Denmark. They know in those places the worst you can do is throw a pastry at them. In the US a light on and a car in the driveway is one of the most effective security systems imaginable.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: Eddie20 on November 12, 2017, 12:11:39 PM
I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

really?

The maximum sentence for stealing goods in China varies, depending on the value of what has been alleged to be stolen. Stealing goods worth between 1,000 and 2,500 yuan ($150 to $380), for example, comes with a maximum sentence of six months but could result in merely a fine.

Anyone convicted of stealing goods for more than that amount, however, would face jail time. Someone convicted of stealing goods worth between 7,000 and 10,000 yuan ($1,050 to $1,510) would face between two and three years in jail under Chinese law.

Louis Vuitton men’s sunglasses cost $435 to $1,990, according to the company’s U.S. website.


and in california...

According to statistics from the California Department of Corrections, thousands of individuals are serving life sentences under California's three strikes law for nonviolent third strikes—in fact, 360 individuals in California are serving life sentences for shoplifting small amounts of merchandise. California is one of twenty-six states nationally with a three strikes law, but California's is the harshest in that the third strike need not be a serious or violent felony-any felony, even shoplifting, can be the basis for a life sentence.

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol31_2004/winter2004/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html
2 to 3 years in jail for shop lifting is incredibly harsh. That is the point I was making. I think I read somewhere the value stolen woild be a 3 to 10 year sentence under Chinese law. That is just way to harsh.  It doesn't excuse the offense bit of rather see an American level penalty
No sympathy for thieves. None.

Really? You think somebody who shoplifts deserves jail time? Whether it be China or the US, this is not a crime that should be treated very seriously. Armed robbery is one thing, but an 18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses is nothing.

Another member of CB has a quote has his signature by George W Bush (how times have changed where I can speak positively of Bush) where he says often we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Humans are not perfect - we all make mistakes and this is incredibly minor in the grand scheme of things. As much as I dislike what the Ball family represents, I really hope this falls by the wayside sooner rather than later.

According to reports, they stole from 3 different stores. So it wasn't merely a random crime of opportunity, but instead speaks to the defendants' specific intent. That to me needs to be treated more harshly than the way you downplayed it... "18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses".
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: eja117 on November 12, 2017, 12:22:19 PM
This whole "They were stupid kids" thing....well why can't we punish stupidity? Did you make any effort whatsoever to understand the exchange rate on those shades? Did you consider the average salary of people in China whatsoever and then to to relate it to what you were stealing?  You made no effort to think of the world around you. No effort to be observant or thoughtful. Just thought of yourself. Fine. You're stupid. Now go to jail. Obviously you haven't been able to gain any knowledge or intelligence in the rest of the world. Maybe jail will help you out. Then maybe you won't be so stupid next time.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: jambr380 on November 12, 2017, 12:25:41 PM
I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

really?

The maximum sentence for stealing goods in China varies, depending on the value of what has been alleged to be stolen. Stealing goods worth between 1,000 and 2,500 yuan ($150 to $380), for example, comes with a maximum sentence of six months but could result in merely a fine.

Anyone convicted of stealing goods for more than that amount, however, would face jail time. Someone convicted of stealing goods worth between 7,000 and 10,000 yuan ($1,050 to $1,510) would face between two and three years in jail under Chinese law.

Louis Vuitton men’s sunglasses cost $435 to $1,990, according to the company’s U.S. website.


and in california...

According to statistics from the California Department of Corrections, thousands of individuals are serving life sentences under California's three strikes law for nonviolent third strikes—in fact, 360 individuals in California are serving life sentences for shoplifting small amounts of merchandise. California is one of twenty-six states nationally with a three strikes law, but California's is the harshest in that the third strike need not be a serious or violent felony-any felony, even shoplifting, can be the basis for a life sentence.

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol31_2004/winter2004/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html
2 to 3 years in jail for shop lifting is incredibly harsh. That is the point I was making. I think I read somewhere the value stolen woild be a 3 to 10 year sentence under Chinese law. That is just way to harsh.  It doesn't excuse the offense bit of rather see an American level penalty
No sympathy for thieves. None.

Really? You think somebody who shoplifts deserves jail time? Whether it be China or the US, this is not a crime that should be treated very seriously. Armed robbery is one thing, but an 18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses is nothing.

Another member of CB has a quote has his signature by George W Bush (how times have changed where I can speak positively of Bush) where he says often we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Humans are not perfect - we all make mistakes and this is incredibly minor in the grand scheme of things. As much as I dislike what the Ball family represents, I really hope this falls by the wayside sooner rather than later.

According to reports, they stole from 3 different stores. So it wasn't merely a random crime of opportunity, but instead speaks to the defendants' specific intent. That to me needs to be treated more harshly than the way you downplayed it... "18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses".

How harshly? I mean, these are kids that did something stupid all in the same basic time frame. It's not like they beat somebody with a baseball bat and stole their car.

Maybe I just have a different perspective - I purchase and rent condos in Florida. When I have an eviction, I am out at least two months rent (usually, three) plus the cost of the eviction. My loss on an eviction is in the thousands - it is terrible. And there is no real way to ever collect the money. Think about it, these people essentially 'steal' thousands of dollars from me and absolutely nothing happens to them.

So, no, I don't think anything should happen to LiAngelo and his buddies and I think everybody who is ready to lay the hammer down really needs to take a big chill pill. I didn't know we had so many perfect members of society on CB.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: eja117 on November 12, 2017, 12:35:13 PM
Why are people saying they're stupid kids? They aren't kids. They go to a world class university. They aren't supposed to be stupid either.

Why do we have to have such incredibly low expectations of UCLA freshmen? Why are we giving people credit for not doing things they aren't supposed to do?
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: Eddie20 on November 12, 2017, 12:36:50 PM
I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

really?

The maximum sentence for stealing goods in China varies, depending on the value of what has been alleged to be stolen. Stealing goods worth between 1,000 and 2,500 yuan ($150 to $380), for example, comes with a maximum sentence of six months but could result in merely a fine.

Anyone convicted of stealing goods for more than that amount, however, would face jail time. Someone convicted of stealing goods worth between 7,000 and 10,000 yuan ($1,050 to $1,510) would face between two and three years in jail under Chinese law.

Louis Vuitton men’s sunglasses cost $435 to $1,990, according to the company’s U.S. website.


and in california...

According to statistics from the California Department of Corrections, thousands of individuals are serving life sentences under California's three strikes law for nonviolent third strikes—in fact, 360 individuals in California are serving life sentences for shoplifting small amounts of merchandise. California is one of twenty-six states nationally with a three strikes law, but California's is the harshest in that the third strike need not be a serious or violent felony-any felony, even shoplifting, can be the basis for a life sentence.

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol31_2004/winter2004/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html
2 to 3 years in jail for shop lifting is incredibly harsh. That is the point I was making. I think I read somewhere the value stolen woild be a 3 to 10 year sentence under Chinese law. That is just way to harsh.  It doesn't excuse the offense bit of rather see an American level penalty
No sympathy for thieves. None.

Really? You think somebody who shoplifts deserves jail time? Whether it be China or the US, this is not a crime that should be treated very seriously. Armed robbery is one thing, but an 18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses is nothing.

Another member of CB has a quote has his signature by George W Bush (how times have changed where I can speak positively of Bush) where he says often we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Humans are not perfect - we all make mistakes and this is incredibly minor in the grand scheme of things. As much as I dislike what the Ball family represents, I really hope this falls by the wayside sooner rather than later.

According to reports, they stole from 3 different stores. So it wasn't merely a random crime of opportunity, but instead speaks to the defendants' specific intent. That to me needs to be treated more harshly than the way you downplayed it... "18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses".

How harshly? I mean, these are kids that did something stupid all in the same basic time frame. It's not like they beat somebody with a baseball bat and stole their car.

Maybe I just have a different perspective - I purchase and rent condos in Florida. When I have an eviction, I am out at least two months rent (usually, three) plus the cost of the eviction. My loss on an eviction is in the thousands - it is terrible. And there is no real way to ever collect the money. Think about it, these people essentially 'steal' thousands of dollars from me and absolutely nothing happens to them.

So, no, I don't think anything should happen to LiAngelo and his buddies and I think everybody who is ready to lay the hammer down really needs to take a big chill pill. I didn't know we had so many perfect members of society on CB.

Your comparison is really apples to oranges. They don't steal anything from you and you simply have to adhere to the laws to have them evicted. As a landlord your rights are limited and even if renters damaged property your only recourse would be to sue them civilly. However, if "kids" would unlawfully enter your rented property and subsequently vandalized it wouldn't you feel differently about the punishment they're faced with? How about if the same group of "kids" committed the same act in 3 of your condos? Would you want them punished or just shrug and say "no big deal"?
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: jambr380 on November 12, 2017, 12:45:44 PM
This whole "They were stupid kids" thing....well why can't we punish stupidity? Did you make any effort whatsoever to understand the exchange rate on those shades? Did you consider the average salary of people in China whatsoever and then to to relate it to what you were stealing?  You made no effort to think of the world around you. No effort to be observant or thoughtful. Just thought of yourself. Fine. You're stupid. Now go to jail. Obviously you haven't been able to gain any knowledge or intelligence in the rest of the world. Maybe jail will help you out. Then maybe you won't be so stupid next time.

So, what happens next? These guys get a big fat felony and jail time - Awesome! Everybody knows that 18 year olds are mature, rational adults who always show a genuine understanding of the world and those around them. They totally deserve to never find a decent job and be banned from living in apartment/condo complexes all because they so sinfully stole a freakin' pair of sunglasses when they were teenagers.

I am really disappointed in your opinion and others who think in such black and white terms - very troubling that [many] people feel the way you do.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: EJPLAYA on November 12, 2017, 12:46:49 PM
The problem that we have in society at this moment that permeates everything all the way up and into our government is that accountability and consequences have been largely removed from society. We live in a country where if you make a poor choice as a child most parents do not have consequences. There is no follow through. Athletes give examples that when you do something criminal you apologize, but then and go plead not guilty in court to try and have your lawyers get you off with no consequences. Afterwards they get a little slap on the wrist they can say they have "learned" from their mistakes and grown. No they didn't. They lied about their mistakes to get out of consequences and want everyone to pretend it didn't happen.

What SHOULD happen is these three should face the consequences of their actions according to what the laws in China are. They have admitted that they stole things. It was THREE different stores that they stole from if you read everything out there. Sorry doesn't work when you are an adult. Even though LaVar taught his children that they are better than everyone else and deserve more than everyone else he is wrong. And Chinese law says differently. If you are old enough to be a man and act that way, then be man enough to take the consequences for your actions!
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: matteo on November 12, 2017, 12:48:39 PM
I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

really?

The maximum sentence for stealing goods in China varies, depending on the value of what has been alleged to be stolen. Stealing goods worth between 1,000 and 2,500 yuan ($150 to $380), for example, comes with a maximum sentence of six months but could result in merely a fine.

Anyone convicted of stealing goods for more than that amount, however, would face jail time. Someone convicted of stealing goods worth between 7,000 and 10,000 yuan ($1,050 to $1,510) would face between two and three years in jail under Chinese law.

Louis Vuitton men’s sunglasses cost $435 to $1,990, according to the company’s U.S. website.


and in california...

According to statistics from the California Department of Corrections, thousands of individuals are serving life sentences under California's three strikes law for nonviolent third strikes—in fact, 360 individuals in California are serving life sentences for shoplifting small amounts of merchandise. California is one of twenty-six states nationally with a three strikes law, but California's is the harshest in that the third strike need not be a serious or violent felony-any felony, even shoplifting, can be the basis for a life sentence.

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol31_2004/winter2004/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html
2 to 3 years in jail for shop lifting is incredibly harsh. That is the point I was making. I think I read somewhere the value stolen woild be a 3 to 10 year sentence under Chinese law. That is just way to harsh.  It doesn't excuse the offense bit of rather see an American level penalty
No sympathy for thieves. None.

Really? You think somebody who shoplifts deserves jail time? Whether it be China or the US, this is not a crime that should be treated very seriously. Armed robbery is one thing, but an 18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses is nothing.

Another member of CB has a quote has his signature by George W Bush (how times have changed where I can speak positively of Bush) where he says often we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Humans are not perfect - we all make mistakes and this is incredibly minor in the grand scheme of things. As much as I dislike what the Ball family represents, I really hope this falls by the wayside sooner rather than later.

According to reports, they stole from 3 different stores. So it wasn't merely a random crime of opportunity, but instead speaks to the defendants' specific intent. That to me needs to be treated more harshly than the way you downplayed it... "18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses".

How harshly? I mean, these are kids that did something stupid all in the same basic time frame. It's not like they beat somebody with a baseball bat and stole their car.

Maybe I just have a different perspective - I purchase and rent condos in Florida. When I have an eviction, I am out at least two months rent (usually, three) plus the cost of the eviction. My loss on an eviction is in the thousands - it is terrible. And there is no real way to ever collect the money. Think about it, these people essentially 'steal' thousands of dollars from me and absolutely nothing happens to them.

So, no, I don't think anything should happen to LiAngelo and his buddies and I think everybody who is ready to lay the hammer down really needs to take a big chill pill. I didn't know we had so many perfect members of society on CB.

I also have over 100 rental units in MA, (an extremely pro-tenant state) and lose just as much if not more for every eviction.  I have to follow the law, it comes with the territory of owning rental property here so I have no complaints.  I also have some retail stores.  When someone steals from me I feel they should be prosecuted, and I do whatever I can to help the police in their investigation, cause it's "the law"....Maybe I just have a different perspective
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: jambr380 on November 12, 2017, 12:57:56 PM
I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

really?

The maximum sentence for stealing goods in China varies, depending on the value of what has been alleged to be stolen. Stealing goods worth between 1,000 and 2,500 yuan ($150 to $380), for example, comes with a maximum sentence of six months but could result in merely a fine.

Anyone convicted of stealing goods for more than that amount, however, would face jail time. Someone convicted of stealing goods worth between 7,000 and 10,000 yuan ($1,050 to $1,510) would face between two and three years in jail under Chinese law.

Louis Vuitton men’s sunglasses cost $435 to $1,990, according to the company’s U.S. website.


and in california...

According to statistics from the California Department of Corrections, thousands of individuals are serving life sentences under California's three strikes law for nonviolent third strikes—in fact, 360 individuals in California are serving life sentences for shoplifting small amounts of merchandise. California is one of twenty-six states nationally with a three strikes law, but California's is the harshest in that the third strike need not be a serious or violent felony-any felony, even shoplifting, can be the basis for a life sentence.

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol31_2004/winter2004/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html
2 to 3 years in jail for shop lifting is incredibly harsh. That is the point I was making. I think I read somewhere the value stolen woild be a 3 to 10 year sentence under Chinese law. That is just way to harsh.  It doesn't excuse the offense bit of rather see an American level penalty
No sympathy for thieves. None.

Really? You think somebody who shoplifts deserves jail time? Whether it be China or the US, this is not a crime that should be treated very seriously. Armed robbery is one thing, but an 18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses is nothing.

Another member of CB has a quote has his signature by George W Bush (how times have changed where I can speak positively of Bush) where he says often we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Humans are not perfect - we all make mistakes and this is incredibly minor in the grand scheme of things. As much as I dislike what the Ball family represents, I really hope this falls by the wayside sooner rather than later.

According to reports, they stole from 3 different stores. So it wasn't merely a random crime of opportunity, but instead speaks to the defendants' specific intent. That to me needs to be treated more harshly than the way you downplayed it... "18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses".

How harshly? I mean, these are kids that did something stupid all in the same basic time frame. It's not like they beat somebody with a baseball bat and stole their car.

Maybe I just have a different perspective - I purchase and rent condos in Florida. When I have an eviction, I am out at least two months rent (usually, three) plus the cost of the eviction. My loss on an eviction is in the thousands - it is terrible. And there is no real way to ever collect the money. Think about it, these people essentially 'steal' thousands of dollars from me and absolutely nothing happens to them.

So, no, I don't think anything should happen to LiAngelo and his buddies and I think everybody who is ready to lay the hammer down really needs to take a big chill pill. I didn't know we had so many perfect members of society on CB.

Your comparison is really apples to oranges. They don't steal anything from you and you simply have to adhere to the laws to have them evicted. As a landlord your rights are limited and even if renters damaged property your only recourse would be to sue them civilly. However, if "kids" would unlawfully enter your rented property and subsequently vandalized it wouldn't you feel differently about the punishment they're faced with? How about if the same group of "kids" committed the same act in 3 of your condos? Would you want them punished or just shrug and say "no big deal"?

Talk about apples to oranges. My condos aren't 'open for business'. The only people allowed in them are the tenants who rent from me. I have had several break-ins and have had to replace some sliding glass doors (more expensive than you would think) and that is entirely different. Still, even though I have never heard of any arrests from these break-ins, if a 'stupid kid' was the person who did it and it was his first offense (and he was unarmed), I would not want him to go to jail. In the case of these young men, it seems the businesses will actually collect back their merchandise - no real harm in the end.

And you may not see these people as stealing, but they sign a lease committing to paying a certain amount over an entire year. If somebody else had rented the unit instead of them, I would have received the money that I very much count on. Instead, I am unable to rent the unit as they are happily living in the unit rent free, and on top of that there are significant legal fees. And, you are right about damages - have you ever entered the unit of a tenant who has been evicted? It isn't pretty.

Like I said, perhaps I have just had a lot more experience with people screwing me and knowing how to let it go. Apparently you and others have not gained that experience and are hell-bent on prosecuting every single person who does anything remotely wrong. Just realize, you or somebody you love may be on the other side someday and you will surely be begging for a break at that point.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: jambr380 on November 12, 2017, 01:01:46 PM
I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

really?

The maximum sentence for stealing goods in China varies, depending on the value of what has been alleged to be stolen. Stealing goods worth between 1,000 and 2,500 yuan ($150 to $380), for example, comes with a maximum sentence of six months but could result in merely a fine.

Anyone convicted of stealing goods for more than that amount, however, would face jail time. Someone convicted of stealing goods worth between 7,000 and 10,000 yuan ($1,050 to $1,510) would face between two and three years in jail under Chinese law.

Louis Vuitton men’s sunglasses cost $435 to $1,990, according to the company’s U.S. website.


and in california...

According to statistics from the California Department of Corrections, thousands of individuals are serving life sentences under California's three strikes law for nonviolent third strikes—in fact, 360 individuals in California are serving life sentences for shoplifting small amounts of merchandise. California is one of twenty-six states nationally with a three strikes law, but California's is the harshest in that the third strike need not be a serious or violent felony-any felony, even shoplifting, can be the basis for a life sentence.

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol31_2004/winter2004/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html
2 to 3 years in jail for shop lifting is incredibly harsh. That is the point I was making. I think I read somewhere the value stolen woild be a 3 to 10 year sentence under Chinese law. That is just way to harsh.  It doesn't excuse the offense bit of rather see an American level penalty
No sympathy for thieves. None.

Really? You think somebody who shoplifts deserves jail time? Whether it be China or the US, this is not a crime that should be treated very seriously. Armed robbery is one thing, but an 18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses is nothing.

Another member of CB has a quote has his signature by George W Bush (how times have changed where I can speak positively of Bush) where he says often we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Humans are not perfect - we all make mistakes and this is incredibly minor in the grand scheme of things. As much as I dislike what the Ball family represents, I really hope this falls by the wayside sooner rather than later.

According to reports, they stole from 3 different stores. So it wasn't merely a random crime of opportunity, but instead speaks to the defendants' specific intent. That to me needs to be treated more harshly than the way you downplayed it... "18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses".

How harshly? I mean, these are kids that did something stupid all in the same basic time frame. It's not like they beat somebody with a baseball bat and stole their car.

Maybe I just have a different perspective - I purchase and rent condos in Florida. When I have an eviction, I am out at least two months rent (usually, three) plus the cost of the eviction. My loss on an eviction is in the thousands - it is terrible. And there is no real way to ever collect the money. Think about it, these people essentially 'steal' thousands of dollars from me and absolutely nothing happens to them.

So, no, I don't think anything should happen to LiAngelo and his buddies and I think everybody who is ready to lay the hammer down really needs to take a big chill pill. I didn't know we had so many perfect members of society on CB.

I also have over 100 rental units in MA, (an extremely pro-tenant state) and lose just as much if not more for every eviction.  I have to follow the law, it comes with the territory of owning rental property here so I have no complaints.  I also have some retail stores.  When someone steals from me I feel they should be prosecuted, and I do whatever I can to help the police in their investigation, cause it's "the law"....Maybe I just have a different perspective

It must be really cool being you. I hope I can one day reach the direction of your moral compass.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: Roy H. on November 12, 2017, 01:14:50 PM
Quote
So, no, I don't think anything should happen to LiAngelo and his buddies

Nothing at all? No fine, no suspension?

Personally I’d expel him.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: Eddie20 on November 12, 2017, 01:20:13 PM
I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

really?

The maximum sentence for stealing goods in China varies, depending on the value of what has been alleged to be stolen. Stealing goods worth between 1,000 and 2,500 yuan ($150 to $380), for example, comes with a maximum sentence of six months but could result in merely a fine.

Anyone convicted of stealing goods for more than that amount, however, would face jail time. Someone convicted of stealing goods worth between 7,000 and 10,000 yuan ($1,050 to $1,510) would face between two and three years in jail under Chinese law.

Louis Vuitton men’s sunglasses cost $435 to $1,990, according to the company’s U.S. website.


and in california...

According to statistics from the California Department of Corrections, thousands of individuals are serving life sentences under California's three strikes law for nonviolent third strikes—in fact, 360 individuals in California are serving life sentences for shoplifting small amounts of merchandise. California is one of twenty-six states nationally with a three strikes law, but California's is the harshest in that the third strike need not be a serious or violent felony-any felony, even shoplifting, can be the basis for a life sentence.

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol31_2004/winter2004/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html
2 to 3 years in jail for shop lifting is incredibly harsh. That is the point I was making. I think I read somewhere the value stolen woild be a 3 to 10 year sentence under Chinese law. That is just way to harsh.  It doesn't excuse the offense bit of rather see an American level penalty
No sympathy for thieves. None.

Really? You think somebody who shoplifts deserves jail time? Whether it be China or the US, this is not a crime that should be treated very seriously. Armed robbery is one thing, but an 18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses is nothing.

Another member of CB has a quote has his signature by George W Bush (how times have changed where I can speak positively of Bush) where he says often we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Humans are not perfect - we all make mistakes and this is incredibly minor in the grand scheme of things. As much as I dislike what the Ball family represents, I really hope this falls by the wayside sooner rather than later.

According to reports, they stole from 3 different stores. So it wasn't merely a random crime of opportunity, but instead speaks to the defendants' specific intent. That to me needs to be treated more harshly than the way you downplayed it... "18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses".

How harshly? I mean, these are kids that did something stupid all in the same basic time frame. It's not like they beat somebody with a baseball bat and stole their car.

Maybe I just have a different perspective - I purchase and rent condos in Florida. When I have an eviction, I am out at least two months rent (usually, three) plus the cost of the eviction. My loss on an eviction is in the thousands - it is terrible. And there is no real way to ever collect the money. Think about it, these people essentially 'steal' thousands of dollars from me and absolutely nothing happens to them.

So, no, I don't think anything should happen to LiAngelo and his buddies and I think everybody who is ready to lay the hammer down really needs to take a big chill pill. I didn't know we had so many perfect members of society on CB.

Your comparison is really apples to oranges. They don't steal anything from you and you simply have to adhere to the laws to have them evicted. As a landlord your rights are limited and even if renters damaged property your only recourse would be to sue them civilly. However, if "kids" would unlawfully enter your rented property and subsequently vandalized it wouldn't you feel differently about the punishment they're faced with? How about if the same group of "kids" committed the same act in 3 of your condos? Would you want them punished or just shrug and say "no big deal"?

Talk about apples to oranges. My condos aren't 'open for business'. The only people allowed in them are the tenants who rent from me. I have had several break-ins and have had to replace some sliding glass doors (more expensive than you would think) and that is entirely different. Still, even though I have never heard of any arrests from these break-ins, if a 'stupid kid' was the person who did it and it was first offense (and he was unarmed), I would not want him/her to go to jail. In the case of these young men, it seems the businesses will actually collect back their merchandise - no real harm in the end.

And you may not see these people as stealing, but they sign a lease committing to paying a certain amount over an entire year. If somebody else had rented the unit instead of them, I would have received the money that I very much count on. Instead, I am unable to rent the unit as they are happily living in the unit rent free, and on top of that there are significant legal fees. And, you are right about damages - have you ever entered the unit of a tenant who has been evicted? It isn't pretty.

Like I said, perhaps I have just had a lot more experience with people screwing me and knowing how to let it go. Apparently you and others have not gained that experience and are hell-bent on prosecuting every single person who does anything remotely wrong. Just realize, you or somebody you love may be on the other side someday and you will surely be begging for a break at that point.

I know your condos aren't open for business, but your comparing your situation (a civil matter) with a retail theft (a criminal matter). It's not me that doesn't see your situation as being theft, despite your loss of money, it's actually the law that identifies it as being civil. And yes, I have seen individuals that's residences have been evicted and despite the deplorable conditions there is nothing you can do from a criminal standpoint.

As far as not wanting someone that breaks in to your place to go to jail that is purely nonsensical. That's a burglary. That's not just a theft. You have to be extremely brazen to burglarize a place and with it should come proper punishment. Your mindset of not wanting them to go to jail because it was a first offense is really missing the big picture. If everyone has that marrow point of view then the same subject could continue to do the same thing without any recourse, since no victim would ever press charges.

I prefer to charge them accordingly so when they do something felonious, be it on a smaller or larger scale, it's not a first time offense because bleeding hearts like yourself have not wanted to  to act. A persons record matters in sentencing. Now how would you feel if the person that you let walk for a burglary would get a soft punishment after now committing another, more heinous act, simply because you felt sorry for the "kid"?
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: jambr380 on November 12, 2017, 01:22:13 PM
Quote
So, no, I don't think anything should happen to LiAngelo and his buddies

Nothing at all? No fine, no suspension?

Personally I’d expel him.

I was speaking specifically on jail time - I should have clarified. He should be fined, given a misdemeanor, and perhaps even be required to do community service (depending on the value of the merchandise).

UCLA should do as they feel as these are scholarship athletes who have been given the great privilege of attending their school. If they are expelled, they should accept the consequences as they have shamed the university.

Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: eja117 on November 12, 2017, 01:27:32 PM
This whole "They were stupid kids" thing....well why can't we punish stupidity? Did you make any effort whatsoever to understand the exchange rate on those shades? Did you consider the average salary of people in China whatsoever and then to to relate it to what you were stealing?  You made no effort to think of the world around you. No effort to be observant or thoughtful. Just thought of yourself. Fine. You're stupid. Now go to jail. Obviously you haven't been able to gain any knowledge or intelligence in the rest of the world. Maybe jail will help you out. Then maybe you won't be so stupid next time.

So, what happens next? These guys get a big fat felony and jail time - Awesome! Everybody knows that 18 year olds are mature, rational adults who always show a genuine understanding of the world and those around them. They totally deserve to never find a decent job and be banned from living in apartment/condo complexes all because they so sinfully stole a freakin' pair of sunglasses when they were teenagers.

I am really disappointed in your opinion and others who think in such black and white terms - very troubling that [many] people feel the way you do.
Ah yes. The stereotype that if you do some time you can never find work or a place to live ever again. Spare me.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: eja117 on November 12, 2017, 01:30:42 PM
I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

really?

The maximum sentence for stealing goods in China varies, depending on the value of what has been alleged to be stolen. Stealing goods worth between 1,000 and 2,500 yuan ($150 to $380), for example, comes with a maximum sentence of six months but could result in merely a fine.

Anyone convicted of stealing goods for more than that amount, however, would face jail time. Someone convicted of stealing goods worth between 7,000 and 10,000 yuan ($1,050 to $1,510) would face between two and three years in jail under Chinese law.

Louis Vuitton men’s sunglasses cost $435 to $1,990, according to the company’s U.S. website.


and in california...

According to statistics from the California Department of Corrections, thousands of individuals are serving life sentences under California's three strikes law for nonviolent third strikes—in fact, 360 individuals in California are serving life sentences for shoplifting small amounts of merchandise. California is one of twenty-six states nationally with a three strikes law, but California's is the harshest in that the third strike need not be a serious or violent felony-any felony, even shoplifting, can be the basis for a life sentence.

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol31_2004/winter2004/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html
2 to 3 years in jail for shop lifting is incredibly harsh. That is the point I was making. I think I read somewhere the value stolen woild be a 3 to 10 year sentence under Chinese law. That is just way to harsh.  It doesn't excuse the offense bit of rather see an American level penalty
No sympathy for thieves. None.

Really? You think somebody who shoplifts deserves jail time? Whether it be China or the US, this is not a crime that should be treated very seriously. Armed robbery is one thing, but an 18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses is nothing.

Another member of CB has a quote has his signature by George W Bush (how times have changed where I can speak positively of Bush) where he says often we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Humans are not perfect - we all make mistakes and this is incredibly minor in the grand scheme of things. As much as I dislike what the Ball family represents, I really hope this falls by the wayside sooner rather than later.

According to reports, they stole from 3 different stores. So it wasn't merely a random crime of opportunity, but instead speaks to the defendants' specific intent. That to me needs to be treated more harshly than the way you downplayed it... "18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses".

How harshly? I mean, these are kids that did something stupid all in the same basic time frame. It's not like they beat somebody with a baseball bat and stole their car.

Maybe I just have a different perspective - I purchase and rent condos in Florida. When I have an eviction, I am out at least two months rent (usually, three) plus the cost of the eviction. My loss on an eviction is in the thousands - it is terrible. And there is no real way to ever collect the money. Think about it, these people essentially 'steal' thousands of dollars from me and absolutely nothing happens to them.

So, no, I don't think anything should happen to LiAngelo and his buddies and I think everybody who is ready to lay the hammer down really needs to take a big chill pill. I didn't know we had so many perfect members of society on CB.

Your comparison is really apples to oranges. They don't steal anything from you and you simply have to adhere to the laws to have them evicted. As a landlord your rights are limited and even if renters damaged property your only recourse would be to sue them civilly. However, if "kids" would unlawfully enter your rented property and subsequently vandalized it wouldn't you feel differently about the punishment they're faced with? How about if the same group of "kids" committed the same act in 3 of your condos? Would you want them punished or just shrug and say "no big deal"?

Talk about apples to oranges. My condos aren't 'open for business'. The only people allowed in them are the tenants who rent from me. I have had several break-ins and have had to replace some sliding glass doors (more expensive than you would think) and that is entirely different. Still, even though I have never heard of any arrests from these break-ins, if a 'stupid kid' was the person who did it and it was his first offense (and he was unarmed), I would not want him to go to jail. In the case of these young men, it seems the businesses will actually collect back their merchandise - no real harm in the end.

And you may not see these people as stealing, but they sign a lease committing to paying a certain amount over an entire year. If somebody else had rented the unit instead of them, I would have received the money that I very much count on. Instead, I am unable to rent the unit as they are happily living in the unit rent free, and on top of that there are significant legal fees. And, you are right about damages - have you ever entered the unit of a tenant who has been evicted? It isn't pretty.

Like I said, perhaps I have just had a lot more experience with people screwing me and knowing how to let it go. Apparently you and others have not gained that experience and are hell-bent on prosecuting every single person who does anything remotely wrong. Just realize, you or somebody you love may be on the other side someday and you will surely be begging for a break at that point.
Nope. Nope. I won't be on the other side. I won't be stealing anything in China. Won't happen.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: Phantom255x on November 12, 2017, 01:30:54 PM
I'd be absolutely shocked if UCLA didn't kick these guys out of school.

People seem to forget that this whole thing also sort of tarnishes their name (UCLA) and reputation a bit, and the fact that they did it in a foreign country... YIKES.

As for the punishments over at China... I mean I know they should be acting like adults and it was extremely stupid of them to do what they did, but I fear the Chinese could come down extremely hard on them, which I would not advocate at all.

Like give them some jail time, make them do community service and pay a fine, sure, but potentially having 5-7+ years in jail and a big fine.....  :o
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: eja117 on November 12, 2017, 01:33:10 PM
Quote
So, no, I don't think anything should happen to LiAngelo and his buddies

Nothing at all? No fine, no suspension?

Personally I’d expel him.

I was speaking specifically on jail time - I should have clarified. He should be fined, given a misdemeanor, and perhaps even be required to do community service (depending on the value of the merchandise).

UCLA should do as they feel as these are scholarship athletes who have been given the great privilege of attending their school. If they are expelled, they should accept the consequences as they have shamed the university.
What do you do when other landlords call you for a reference? Granted they probably don't put you down.  Do you rent to them again in the future? File anything? Keep the deposit?
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: jambr380 on November 12, 2017, 01:36:24 PM
I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

really?

The maximum sentence for stealing goods in China varies, depending on the value of what has been alleged to be stolen. Stealing goods worth between 1,000 and 2,500 yuan ($150 to $380), for example, comes with a maximum sentence of six months but could result in merely a fine.

Anyone convicted of stealing goods for more than that amount, however, would face jail time. Someone convicted of stealing goods worth between 7,000 and 10,000 yuan ($1,050 to $1,510) would face between two and three years in jail under Chinese law.

Louis Vuitton men’s sunglasses cost $435 to $1,990, according to the company’s U.S. website.


and in california...

According to statistics from the California Department of Corrections, thousands of individuals are serving life sentences under California's three strikes law for nonviolent third strikes—in fact, 360 individuals in California are serving life sentences for shoplifting small amounts of merchandise. California is one of twenty-six states nationally with a three strikes law, but California's is the harshest in that the third strike need not be a serious or violent felony-any felony, even shoplifting, can be the basis for a life sentence.

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol31_2004/winter2004/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html
2 to 3 years in jail for shop lifting is incredibly harsh. That is the point I was making. I think I read somewhere the value stolen woild be a 3 to 10 year sentence under Chinese law. That is just way to harsh.  It doesn't excuse the offense bit of rather see an American level penalty
No sympathy for thieves. None.

Really? You think somebody who shoplifts deserves jail time? Whether it be China or the US, this is not a crime that should be treated very seriously. Armed robbery is one thing, but an 18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses is nothing.

Another member of CB has a quote has his signature by George W Bush (how times have changed where I can speak positively of Bush) where he says often we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Humans are not perfect - we all make mistakes and this is incredibly minor in the grand scheme of things. As much as I dislike what the Ball family represents, I really hope this falls by the wayside sooner rather than later.

According to reports, they stole from 3 different stores. So it wasn't merely a random crime of opportunity, but instead speaks to the defendants' specific intent. That to me needs to be treated more harshly than the way you downplayed it... "18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses".

How harshly? I mean, these are kids that did something stupid all in the same basic time frame. It's not like they beat somebody with a baseball bat and stole their car.

Maybe I just have a different perspective - I purchase and rent condos in Florida. When I have an eviction, I am out at least two months rent (usually, three) plus the cost of the eviction. My loss on an eviction is in the thousands - it is terrible. And there is no real way to ever collect the money. Think about it, these people essentially 'steal' thousands of dollars from me and absolutely nothing happens to them.

So, no, I don't think anything should happen to LiAngelo and his buddies and I think everybody who is ready to lay the hammer down really needs to take a big chill pill. I didn't know we had so many perfect members of society on CB.

Your comparison is really apples to oranges. They don't steal anything from you and you simply have to adhere to the laws to have them evicted. As a landlord your rights are limited and even if renters damaged property your only recourse would be to sue them civilly. However, if "kids" would unlawfully enter your rented property and subsequently vandalized it wouldn't you feel differently about the punishment they're faced with? How about if the same group of "kids" committed the same act in 3 of your condos? Would you want them punished or just shrug and say "no big deal"?

Talk about apples to oranges. My condos aren't 'open for business'. The only people allowed in them are the tenants who rent from me. I have had several break-ins and have had to replace some sliding glass doors (more expensive than you would think) and that is entirely different. Still, even though I have never heard of any arrests from these break-ins, if a 'stupid kid' was the person who did it and it was first offense (and he was unarmed), I would not want him/her to go to jail. In the case of these young men, it seems the businesses will actually collect back their merchandise - no real harm in the end.

And you may not see these people as stealing, but they sign a lease committing to paying a certain amount over an entire year. If somebody else had rented the unit instead of them, I would have received the money that I very much count on. Instead, I am unable to rent the unit as they are happily living in the unit rent free, and on top of that there are significant legal fees. And, you are right about damages - have you ever entered the unit of a tenant who has been evicted? It isn't pretty.

Like I said, perhaps I have just had a lot more experience with people screwing me and knowing how to let it go. Apparently you and others have not gained that experience and are hell-bent on prosecuting every single person who does anything remotely wrong. Just realize, you or somebody you love may be on the other side someday and you will surely be begging for a break at that point.

I know your condos aren't open for business, but your comparing your situation (a civil matter) with a retail theft (a criminal matter). It's not me that doesn't see your situation as being theft, despite your loss of money, it's actually the law that identifies it as being civil. And yes, I have seen individuals that's residences have been evicted and despite the deplorable conditions there is nothing you can do from a criminal standpoint.

As far as not wanting someone that breaks in to your place to go to jail that is purely nonsensical. That's a burglary. That's not just a theft. You have to be extremely brazen to burglarize a place and with it should come proper punishment. Your mindset of not wanting them to go to jail because it was a first offense is really missing the big picture. If everyone has that marrow point of view then the same subject could continue to do the same thing without any recourse, since no victim would ever press charges.

I prefer to charge them accordingly so when they do something felonious, be it on a smaller or larger scale, it's not a first time offense because bleeding hearts like yourself have not wanted to  to act. A persons record matters in sentencing. Now how would you feel if the person that you let walk for a burglary would get a soft punishment after now committing another, more heinous act, simply because you felt sorry for the "kid"?

I don't think all people who burglarize a place should be let free, I just think every situation should be viewed separately. In several of the break-ins that occurred at my places, nothing was actually stolen. If these were kids who had never previously done anything wrong, then I would rather they not go to prison. It should be documented and there should be consequences, but I am much more in favor of rehabilitation than punishment for non-violent crimes. Peoples lives are ruined forever for things they did when they were young.

To bring this back on topic, I do believe breaking into somebody's home is considerably worse than shoplifting from a couple of stores.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: eja117 on November 12, 2017, 01:43:20 PM
Rehab and punishment aren't at all mutually exclusive
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: jambr380 on November 12, 2017, 01:45:38 PM
Ah yes. The stereotype that if you do some time you can never find work or a place to live ever again. Spare me.

I can verify that all of the HOA in which I own have a no felony policy - no exceptions.

Nope. Nope. I won't be on the other side. I won't be stealing anything in China. Won't happen.
I would guess not (and I know you are just poking fun), but there are many other scenarios that could play out. You never know what you may be faced with.

What do you do when other landlords call you for a reference? Granted they probably don't put you down.  Do you rent to them again in the future? File anything? Keep the deposit?

I actually have been contacted by a couple of landlords for these people - the nerve, right? I have always been leery of giving negative references so I just confirm the dates they lived there and ask them if they've done a background/credit check (where the eviction will show up). You can keep the deposit - it is not customary to collect last month rent in FL - and you have a judgment for far less than the actual loss which is nearly impossible to ever collect.

Rehab and punishment aren't at all mutually exclusive

Nope, not at all - except when they are (as in the case with drug users). Otherwise it just depends on how severe the crime was and if they are repeat offenders. The 3 strikes rule needs to disappear, though.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: eja117 on November 12, 2017, 01:49:44 PM
I'm not a criminologist by any means but isn't it true that roughly speaking the 3 strikes rules has correlated (correlation.....not necessarily causation) with a huge national decline in crime?
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: Roy H. on November 12, 2017, 01:51:06 PM
Quote
So, no, I don't think anything should happen to LiAngelo and his buddies

Nothing at all? No fine, no suspension?

Personally I’d expel him.

I was speaking specifically on jail time - I should have clarified. He should be fined, given a misdemeanor, and perhaps even be required to do community service (depending on the value of the merchandise).

UCLA should do as they feel as these are scholarship athletes who have been given the great privilege of attending their school. If they are expelled, they should accept the consequences as they have shamed the university.

That’s pretty much where I am.  I don’t think a long jail sentence is really just, for these kids or average Chinese citizens. 
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: jambr380 on November 12, 2017, 01:54:57 PM
I'm not a criminologist by any means but isn't it true that roughly speaking the 3 strikes rules has correlated (correlation.....not necessarily causation) with a huge national decline in crime?

Obviously if somebody keeps doing something they are not supposed to do, then they should be punished more harshly; however, I have a bigger problem with mandatory sentencing - especially for non-violent offenses. Also, these repeat offenders probably have something else going on and I believe the cause should be addressed (rehab) so that the behavior doesn't continue if/when they get released prison.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: matteo on November 12, 2017, 02:06:23 PM
I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

really?

The maximum sentence for stealing goods in China varies, depending on the value of what has been alleged to be stolen. Stealing goods worth between 1,000 and 2,500 yuan ($150 to $380), for example, comes with a maximum sentence of six months but could result in merely a fine.

Anyone convicted of stealing goods for more than that amount, however, would face jail time. Someone convicted of stealing goods worth between 7,000 and 10,000 yuan ($1,050 to $1,510) would face between two and three years in jail under Chinese law.

Louis Vuitton men’s sunglasses cost $435 to $1,990, according to the company’s U.S. website.


and in california...

According to statistics from the California Department of Corrections, thousands of individuals are serving life sentences under California's three strikes law for nonviolent third strikes—in fact, 360 individuals in California are serving life sentences for shoplifting small amounts of merchandise. California is one of twenty-six states nationally with a three strikes law, but California's is the harshest in that the third strike need not be a serious or violent felony-any felony, even shoplifting, can be the basis for a life sentence.

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol31_2004/winter2004/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html
2 to 3 years in jail for shop lifting is incredibly harsh. That is the point I was making. I think I read somewhere the value stolen woild be a 3 to 10 year sentence under Chinese law. That is just way to harsh.  It doesn't excuse the offense bit of rather see an American level penalty
No sympathy for thieves. None.

Really? You think somebody who shoplifts deserves jail time? Whether it be China or the US, this is not a crime that should be treated very seriously. Armed robbery is one thing, but an 18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses is nothing.

Another member of CB has a quote has his signature by George W Bush (how times have changed where I can speak positively of Bush) where he says often we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Humans are not perfect - we all make mistakes and this is incredibly minor in the grand scheme of things. As much as I dislike what the Ball family represents, I really hope this falls by the wayside sooner rather than later.

According to reports, they stole from 3 different stores. So it wasn't merely a random crime of opportunity, but instead speaks to the defendants' specific intent. That to me needs to be treated more harshly than the way you downplayed it... "18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses".

How harshly? I mean, these are kids that did something stupid all in the same basic time frame. It's not like they beat somebody with a baseball bat and stole their car.

Maybe I just have a different perspective - I purchase and rent condos in Florida. When I have an eviction, I am out at least two months rent (usually, three) plus the cost of the eviction. My loss on an eviction is in the thousands - it is terrible. And there is no real way to ever collect the money. Think about it, these people essentially 'steal' thousands of dollars from me and absolutely nothing happens to them.

So, no, I don't think anything should happen to LiAngelo and his buddies and I think everybody who is ready to lay the hammer down really needs to take a big chill pill. I didn't know we had so many perfect members of society on CB.

I also have over 100 rental units in MA, (an extremely pro-tenant state) and lose just as much if not more for every eviction.  I have to follow the law, it comes with the territory of owning rental property here so I have no complaints.  I also have some retail stores.  When someone steals from me I feel they should be prosecuted, and I do whatever I can to help the police in their investigation, cause it's "the law"....Maybe I just have a different perspective

It must be really cool being you. I hope I can one day reach the direction of your moral compass.

i doubt you "hope" and I doubt you could
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: eja117 on November 12, 2017, 02:07:53 PM
I'm not a criminologist by any means but isn't it true that roughly speaking the 3 strikes rules has correlated (correlation.....not necessarily causation) with a huge national decline in crime?

Obviously if somebody keeps doing something they are not supposed to do, then they should be punished more harshly; however, I have a bigger problem with mandatory sentencing - especially for non-violent offenses. Also, these repeat offenders probably have something else going on and I believe the cause should be addressed (rehab) so that the behavior doesn't continue if/when they get released prison.
Again....not a criminologist, but on some level I think a big factor is no real male role models, not enough education, and not enough economic opportunities. Prison done well.....GEDs and work release stuff so people get an education and a skill......I think that stuff makes a huge difference. It's very unfortunate that a lot of people have to go to jail to end up getting this stuff but that's how it is. But again....if a person has been through this twice already.....maybe punishment is all that's left. 
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: CelticD on November 12, 2017, 02:22:57 PM
I'm not a criminologist by any means but isn't it true that roughly speaking the 3 strikes rules has correlated (correlation.....not necessarily causation) with a huge national decline in crime?

Obviously if somebody keeps doing something they are not supposed to do, then they should be punished more harshly; however, I have a bigger problem with mandatory sentencing - especially for non-violent offenses. Also, these repeat offenders probably have something else going on and I believe the cause should be addressed (rehab) so that the behavior doesn't continue if/when they get released prison.
Again....not a criminologist, but on some level I think a big factor is no real male role models, not enough education, and not enough economic opportunities. Prison done well.....GEDs and work release stuff so people get an education and a skill......I think that stuff makes a huge difference. It's very unfortunate that a lot of people have to go to jail to end up getting this stuff but that's how it is. But again....if a person has been through this twice already.....maybe punishment is all that's left.

Since you were talking about lack of male role models I'm assuming you're talking about black people, but lack of economic opportunities is pretty much it in my opinion. When you're unable to accumulate and pass down wealth to your children due to centuries of free labor, economic disenfranchisement is difficult to avoid. High poverty, high crime simple as that.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: GreenEnvy on November 12, 2017, 02:34:49 PM
As someone pretty familiar with the judicial/criminal procedure...

They should probably be able to plea down to a misdemeanor, pay a fine+fees, and be banned from the country.

Then they should face the UCLA board, which at the very least they should lose any scholarships, with some sort of probation should they ever get in trouble with the law again, immediate expulsion. Kicking them off the team seems logical.

Any incarceratory sentence for a non-violent, dumb criminal act such as this one would seem extreme, especially if they don’t have a criminal record.

If they don’t want to accept a plea bargain or there is no offer (wanting to make an example out of them), then all bets are off.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: KGs Knee on November 12, 2017, 03:11:53 PM
Since you were talking about lack of male role models I'm assuming you're talking about black people

That's a rather bizarre and dangerous assumption to make.


Also, LiAngelo has a father who is in his life, and it didn't seem to make a difference here.

Introducing race into the subject of teens acting foolishly is hardly logical. Teens of every single race act foolishly. The important thing is that they learn from their mistakes and misdeeds. Holding them accountable for their actions is part of that.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: eja117 on November 12, 2017, 03:13:19 PM
I'm not a criminologist by any means but isn't it true that roughly speaking the 3 strikes rules has correlated (correlation.....not necessarily causation) with a huge national decline in crime?

Obviously if somebody keeps doing something they are not supposed to do, then they should be punished more harshly; however, I have a bigger problem with mandatory sentencing - especially for non-violent offenses. Also, these repeat offenders probably have something else going on and I believe the cause should be addressed (rehab) so that the behavior doesn't continue if/when they get released prison.
Again....not a criminologist, but on some level I think a big factor is no real male role models, not enough education, and not enough economic opportunities. Prison done well.....GEDs and work release stuff so people get an education and a skill......I think that stuff makes a huge difference. It's very unfortunate that a lot of people have to go to jail to end up getting this stuff but that's how it is. But again....if a person has been through this twice already.....maybe punishment is all that's left.

Since you were talking about lack of male role models I'm assuming you're talking about black people, but lack of economic opportunities is pretty much it in my opinion. When you're unable to accumulate and pass down wealth to your children due to centuries of free labor, economic disenfranchisement is difficult to avoid. High poverty, high crime simple as that.
I'm certainly not just talking about black people. Single parent household is a huge indicator of likely poverty across races, right? However it is well known the lack of black fathers, as well as the statistical overrepresentation of people of color in the prison system. I don't think this is an easy thing to fix for anyone.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: CelticsElite on November 13, 2017, 12:18:39 PM
I'll say this, though -

I apologize.

I took CelticsElite bait and went somewhere with a Trump conspiracy that I should NOT have done.

It was foolish.

With THAT being said -

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNwTe2dVoAAIhzr.jpg)

I'm thankful that I'm not the ONLY one who is prone to foolishness...............

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/21400082/president-donald-trump-asks-chinese-president-xi-jinping-help-ucla-bruins-case

President Donald Trump personally asked Chinese President Xi Jinping to help resolve the case involving three UCLA basketball players, including LiAngelo Ball, who were arrested on shoplifting charges in Hangzhou, The Washington Post reported Monday.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
Post by: CelticD on November 13, 2017, 12:34:26 PM
I'll say this, though -

I apologize.

I took CelticsElite bait and went somewhere with a Trump conspiracy that I should NOT have done.

It was foolish.

With THAT being said -

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNwTe2dVoAAIhzr.jpg)

I'm thankful that I'm not the ONLY one who is prone to foolishness...............

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/21400082/president-donald-trump-asks-chinese-president-xi-jinping-help-ucla-bruins-case

President Donald Trump personally asked Chinese President Xi Jinping to help resolve the case involving three UCLA basketball players, including LiAngelo Ball, who were arrested on shoplifting charges in Hangzhou, The Washington Post reported Monday.

That'd be great. Much respect for him at least bringing it up.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: Roy H. on November 14, 2017, 02:36:35 PM
Quote
"The three UCLA men’s basketball student-athletes involved in the incident with authorities in Hangzhou, China are on a flight back home to Los Angeles, and the matter has been resolved to the satisfaction of the Chinese authorities," Pac-12 Commissioner Larry Scott said in a statement
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: kozlodoev on November 14, 2017, 02:42:49 PM
I don't quite understand. It's great that the President helped a bunch of alleged thieves to dodge the local justice system? I hope UCLA doesn't pretend this didn't happen.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: Roy H. on November 14, 2017, 02:52:07 PM
I don't quite understand. It's great that the President helped a bunch of alleged thieves to dodge the local justice system? I hope UCLA doesn't pretend this didn't happen.

Yeah, I don’t want them locked up, but I would like to see some consequences.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: manl_lui on November 14, 2017, 02:52:39 PM
Quote
"The three UCLA men’s basketball student-athletes involved in the incident with authorities in Hangzhou, China are on a flight back home to Los Angeles, and the matter has been resolved to the satisfaction of the Chinese authorities," Pac-12 Commissioner Larry Scott said in a statement

if i have to guess, it's probably we paid the local authorities the value of the items that were "stolen", idk

BUT, these kids are extremely lucky, though I agree that 3+ years for a first offense might be too harsh, and I am worried that these kids will feel entitled. I expect UCLA to punish them somehow though.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: kozlodoev on November 14, 2017, 03:09:19 PM
Quote
"The three UCLA men’s basketball student-athletes involved in the incident with authorities in Hangzhou, China are on a flight back home to Los Angeles, and the matter has been resolved to the satisfaction of the Chinese authorities," Pac-12 Commissioner Larry Scott said in a statement

if i have to guess, it's probably we paid the local authorities the value of the items that were "stolen", idk

BUT, these kids are extremely lucky, though I agree that 3+ years for a first offense might be too harsh, and I am worried that these kids will feel entitled. I expect UCLA to punish them somehow though.
Will you be surprised to know that shoplifting more than $100 carries up to 2.5 yrs in jail + $1,000 fine in MA -- regardless of whether it's a first offense? And that's provided you don't get charged with larceny, which  carries up to 5 years in jail.

Also, if the value of stolen goods is north of $250, you may be charged with a felony.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: green_bballers13 on November 14, 2017, 03:11:32 PM
If we didn't know the three kids, I think most people would just say they were acting like stupid kids (which clearly they are).

Add in Lavar Ball's kid and now the media wants blood.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: CelticsElite on November 14, 2017, 03:17:38 PM
If we didn't know the three kids, I think most people would just say they were acting like stupid kids (which clearly they are).

Add in Lavar Ball's kid and now the media wants blood.
hes not just a kid. First off he’s over 18 and in college. At what point do we gain adulthood and adult responsibilities? Liangelo lives in a mansion and his brother owns a Lamborghini. He is wealthy and decides to steal. What Does that say about his IQ
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: kozlodoev on November 14, 2017, 03:23:54 PM
If we didn't know the three kids, I think most people would just say they were acting like stupid kids (which clearly they are).
I think you might be confusing 8 year olds with 18 year olds. I don't think that "do not take what you don't own" is too high of a standard to hold a college freshman to.

People don't want blood -- they just want them to face the consequences like everyone else.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: manl_lui on November 14, 2017, 03:27:03 PM
Quote
"The three UCLA men’s basketball student-athletes involved in the incident with authorities in Hangzhou, China are on a flight back home to Los Angeles, and the matter has been resolved to the satisfaction of the Chinese authorities," Pac-12 Commissioner Larry Scott said in a statement

if i have to guess, it's probably we paid the local authorities the value of the items that were "stolen", idk

BUT, these kids are extremely lucky, though I agree that 3+ years for a first offense might be too harsh, and I am worried that these kids will feel entitled. I expect UCLA to punish them somehow though.
Will you be surprised to know that shoplifting more than $100 carries up to 2.5 yrs in jail + $1,000 fine in MA -- regardless of whether it's a first offense? And that's provided you don't get charged with larceny, which  carries up to 5 years in jail.

Also, if the value of stolen goods is north of $250, you may be charged with a felony.

wow i actually don't know that! I think it's harsh but then again, for the most part, I won't feel sorry for those who are caught though

it'll be very interesting to see how UCLA handles this situation going forward
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: green_bballers13 on November 14, 2017, 03:36:28 PM
If we didn't know the three kids, I think most people would just say they were acting like stupid kids (which clearly they are).

Add in Lavar Ball's kid and now the media wants blood.
hes not just a kid. First off he’s over 18 and in college. At what point do we gain adulthood and adult responsibilities? Liangelo lives in a mansion and his brother owns a Lamborghini. He is wealthy and decides to steal. What Does that say about his IQ

Legally, you are right. Biologically, their brains are less than fully developed. Go to a college this weekend. Any college. You will see people 22 years old and younger act like stupid kids. It is not a rare occurrence.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: PaulAllen on November 14, 2017, 03:37:47 PM
Trump was seen head to toe in BBB swag
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: gift on November 14, 2017, 03:47:11 PM
Trump was seen head to toe in BBB swag

I honestly can't tell if this is a joke.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: jambr380 on November 14, 2017, 03:57:49 PM
If we didn't know the three kids, I think most people would just say they were acting like stupid kids (which clearly they are).

Add in Lavar Ball's kid and now the media wants blood.
hes not just a kid. First off he’s over 18 and in college. At what point do we gain adulthood and adult responsibilities? Liangelo lives in a mansion and his brother owns a Lamborghini. He is wealthy and decides to steal. What Does that say about his IQ

Legally, you are right. Biologically, their brains are less than fully developed. Go to a college this weekend. Any college. You will see people 22 years old and younger act like stupid kids. It is not a rare occurrence.

Read my previous posts and you will see that you are fighting an uphill battle with many folks here at CB (and I am sure many others who have never been caught for doing something wrong). Apparently people put shoplifting by an 18 year old on the same level as armed burglary.

Anyway, glad to see them returning to the U.S. That is what should happen. What UCLA decides to do will be interesting. I assume they will lose their scholarships and be kicked off the basketball team, but would be surprised if they were expelled from the school. I've never heard of a college student being expelled for shoplifting, but the media attention probably makes this a bit different. In the case of LiAngelo, going to school was a means of eventually playing at a higher level - not sure he would just want to go to University.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: EJPLAYA on November 14, 2017, 03:58:46 PM
This is not about these kids IQ rather their feeling like they are somehow above the rest of everyone else. When you are a wealthy person who steals, you are making a statement that you think you are special and deserve more than others. Like his father, he feels he is better than everyone else deserving of whatever he wishes at the time.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: Androslav on November 14, 2017, 04:25:01 PM
Trump spending his/USA cred on UCLA shoplifters instead of North Korea. Good deal. :)
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: triboy16f on November 14, 2017, 04:30:41 PM
Cant LV exec intervene here and not press charges?

This is silly... I cant believe Liangelo tried to steal

Was prob one of his friends

Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: Roy H. on November 14, 2017, 04:36:51 PM
Cant LV exec intervene here and not press charges?

This is silly... I cant believe Liangelo tried to steal

Was prob one of his friends

Why can’t you believe it? Because privileged kids don’t commit crimes?
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: Roy H. on November 14, 2017, 04:40:08 PM
Trump spending his/USA cred on UCLA shoplifters instead of North Korea. Good deal. :)

I’m not sure that it works that way.  I’m not sure that anything of tangible value was offered or surrendered.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: Androslav on November 14, 2017, 04:45:24 PM
Trump spending his/USA cred on UCLA shoplifters instead of North Korea. Good deal. :)

I’m not sure that it works that way.  I’m not sure that anything of tangible value was offered or surrendered.
Yes I know. Bad joke on my part. High politics doesn't work that way.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: triboy16f on November 14, 2017, 04:58:01 PM
Cant LV exec intervene here and not press charges?

This is silly... I cant believe Liangelo tried to steal

Was prob one of his friends

Why can’t you believe it? Because privileged kids don’t commit crimes?

Yes and doing it in China out of all places

How dumb can you be?

Stealing is a low life move
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: Celtics4ever on November 14, 2017, 04:58:34 PM
Quote
Trump spending his/USA cred on UCLA shoplifters instead of North Korea. Good deal

I for one don't have a problem with him saving some young men that made a really bad decision and think he deserves credit for this act.

North Korea was not contained for the last few administrations.   They did not develop all this technology over night.

http://www.newsweek.com/north-korea-bush-clinton-obama-trump-649522

Funny how it was ok when Pres. Obama said :
Quote
In April 2014, Obama stated, while visiting South Korea, that the U.S. “will not hesitate to use our military might” when it came to defending allies. This came around the time the North, which just a few years prior had transitioned from Kim Jong Il to Kim Jong Un, was on the verge of a fourth nuclear test, The Guardian reported.

I don't think Pres Trump has helped matters much.   But NK is not solely his fault.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: kozlodoev on November 14, 2017, 05:02:58 PM
If we didn't know the three kids, I think most people would just say they were acting like stupid kids (which clearly they are).

Add in Lavar Ball's kid and now the media wants blood.
hes not just a kid. First off he’s over 18 and in college. At what point do we gain adulthood and adult responsibilities? Liangelo lives in a mansion and his brother owns a Lamborghini. He is wealthy and decides to steal. What Does that say about his IQ

Legally, you are right. Biologically, their brains are less than fully developed. Go to a college this weekend. Any college. You will see people 22 years old and younger act like stupid kids. It is not a rare occurrence.
"Don't steal stuff" is such a low bar to clear that I don't think you can use age as a mitigating circumstance.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: nickagneta on November 14, 2017, 05:07:06 PM
Cant LV exec intervene here and not press charges?

This is silly... I cant believe Liangelo tried to steal

Was prob one of his friends

Why can’t you believe it? Because privileged kids don’t commit crimes?

Yes and doing it in China out of all places

How dumb can you be?

Stealing is a low life move
So the privileged don't steal? That's completely wrong. White collar crime is real. The privileged steal all the time.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: hwangjini_1 on November 14, 2017, 05:11:08 PM
Quote
Trump spending his/USA cred on UCLA shoplifters instead of North Korea. Good deal

I for one don't have a problem with him saving some young men that made a really bad decision and think he deserves credit for this act.

North Korea was not contained for the last few administrations.   They did not develop all this technology over night.

http://www.newsweek.com/north-korea-bush-clinton-obama-trump-649522

Funny how it was ok when Pres. Obama said :
Quote
In April 2014, Obama stated, while visiting South Korea, that the U.S. “will not hesitate to use our military might” when it came to defending allies. This came around the time the North, which just a few years prior had transitioned from Kim Jong Il to Kim Jong Un, was on the verge of a fourth nuclear test, The Guardian reported.

I don't think Pres Trump has helped matters much.   But NK is not solely his fault.
just curious, but saving the kids from what? the last i heard they would sit in a nice hotel for 20 day or so, then be sent back to the US and not be allowed into china.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: chicagoceltic on November 14, 2017, 05:11:21 PM
I made some dumb decisions as an 18 year old so I understand how these kids could do the same. To me the biggest problem is that while shoplifting is a poor decision, stealing in a foreign country is especially stupid.  I would hope/imagine that any of these schools playing games overseas would sit their players down and have a clear discussion on how to behave and possible repercussions of breaking the laws in whatever country you are in.  If UCLA did not have tbis conversation with their team shame on them.  If they did then extra shame on these players.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: triboy16f on November 14, 2017, 05:26:06 PM
Cant LV exec intervene here and not press charges?

This is silly... I cant believe Liangelo tried to steal

Was prob one of his friends

Why can’t you believe it? Because privileged kids don’t commit crimes?

Yes and doing it in China out of all places

How dumb can you be?

Stealing is a low life move
So the privileged don't steal? That's completely wrong. White collar crime is real. The privileged steal all the time.

I agree

Im talking about this particularly situation though

Lavar looks like he has a hot temper too
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: apc on November 14, 2017, 06:10:18 PM
Quote
Trump spending his/USA cred on UCLA shoplifters instead of North Korea. Good deal

I for one don't have a problem with him saving some young men that made a really bad decision and think he deserves credit for this act.

North Korea was not contained for the last few administrations.   They did not develop all this technology over night.

http://www.newsweek.com/north-korea-bush-clinton-obama-trump-649522

Funny how it was ok when Pres. Obama said :
Quote
In April 2014, Obama stated, while visiting South Korea, that the U.S. “will not hesitate to use our military might” when it came to defending allies. This came around the time the North, which just a few years prior had transitioned from Kim Jong Il to Kim Jong Un, was on the verge of a fourth nuclear test, The Guardian reported.

I don't think Pres Trump has helped matters much.   But NK is not solely his fault.
Would trump help any American kid caught shop lifting? My guess is not , he helped because this case became very public .
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: CelticsElite on November 14, 2017, 06:13:32 PM
Cant LV exec intervene here and not press charges?

This is silly... I cant believe Liangelo tried to steal

Was prob one of his friends

Why can’t you believe it? Because privileged kids don’t commit crimes?

Yes and doing it in China out of all places

How dumb can you be?

Stealing is a low life move
So the privileged don't steal? That's completely wrong. White collar crime is real. The privileged steal all the time.
he never said privileged don’t steal, he was emphasizing how void  of intelligence it is to steal from communist China. Sidenote: stealing glasses at a Chinese mall isn’t a white collar crime
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: nickagneta on November 14, 2017, 07:37:14 PM
Cant LV exec intervene here and not press charges?

This is silly... I cant believe Liangelo tried to steal

Was prob one of his friends

Why can’t you believe it? Because privileged kids don’t commit crimes?

Yes and doing it in China out of all places

How dumb can you be?

Stealing is a low life move
So the privileged don't steal? That's completely wrong. White collar crime is real. The privileged steal all the time.
he never said privileged don’t steal, he was emphasizing how void  of intelligence it is to steal from communist China. Sidenote: stealing glasses at a Chinese mall isn’t a white collar crime
Actually he answered Roy's question: because privileged kids don't commit crimes? with a yes. So he admitted that he didn't think the privileged committed crimes. And while pointing out how wrong he was a brought up white collar crime as just one example of where the privileged do steal.

TB later acknowledged that he was only referring to this case but that was not evident from his earlier posts.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: Celtics4ever on November 14, 2017, 07:43:34 PM
Quote
just curious, but saving the kids from what? the last i heard they would sit in a nice hotel for 20 day or so, then be sent back to the US and not be allowed into china.

Yeah, because China is the gold standard for human rights.

Here is advice for Americans arrested in China it's not the same due process like we have here, of course, it is a sovereign nation with its own laws.

https://photos.state.gov/libraries/shanghai/228904/ACS/ACSChineseLawOverview.pdf

Yep, and then there is a history of strong human rights in China like :
Quote
The 24 crew members of the American EP-3E Aries II spy plane are back on U.S. soil, but a State Department source has told ABCNEWS there are at least 20 U.S. residents held in Chinese prison cells and work camps

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=131120&page=1

Quote
HONG KONG — A Chinese court has sentenced an American citizen to more than five years in prison for selling magazines about Chinese politics, in a case that bears striking similarities to Beijing’s recent, widely denounced detentions of five Hong Kong-based booksellers.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/28/world/asia/china-hong-kong-magazine-editors.html

Forgive me if I don't buy the sit in the hotel line.   They have a big time history of locking up people and I could post plenty more.   We have our problems here with a huge overpopulated for-profit prison system and are not beyond complaint.  But I am thankful every day that I live in a country with due process.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: slightly biased bias fan on November 14, 2017, 08:40:35 PM
I will actually be disappointed if these players aren't duly punished if the charges are legitimate. There should be no special exemptions, if you go to another country and you disobey their laws, no matter how unjust they may seem you should be punished accordingly, these strict communist laws would have been explained to them on arrival or before their trip so they knew what they were getting into. It's easy if you don't agree with another countries laws you can protest in your own nation or raise awareness socially or simply don't go there. What's more irritating is that it isn't a Rosa Parks type of situation but just a few punks (one of which is rich) who stole from high end stores. If I was the UCLA president I would expel them on return for dragging their College name through the mud on a global scale.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: wayupnorth on November 14, 2017, 09:25:41 PM
Quote
Trump spending his/USA cred on UCLA shoplifters instead of North Korea. Good deal

I for one don't have a problem with him saving some young men that made a really bad decision and think he deserves credit for this act.

North Korea was not contained for the last few administrations.   They did not develop all this technology over night.

http://www.newsweek.com/north-korea-bush-clinton-obama-trump-649522

Funny how it was ok when Pres. Obama said :
Quote
In April 2014, Obama stated, while visiting South Korea, that the U.S. “will not hesitate to use our military might” when it came to defending allies. This came around the time the North, which just a few years prior had transitioned from Kim Jong Il to Kim Jong Un, was on the verge of a fourth nuclear test, The Guardian reported.

I don't think Pres Trump has helped matters much.   But NK is not solely his fault.
Would trump help any American kid caught shop lifting? My guess is not , he helped because this case became very public .

Lol wow.

Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: CelticsElite on November 14, 2017, 09:34:34 PM
Trump helped the UCLA guy’s because they faced 10 years  in prison. That is no joke.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: Phantom255x on November 14, 2017, 09:40:01 PM
Trump helped the UCLA guy’s because they faced 10 years  in prison. That is no joke.

Yeah but would he have helped an "Average Joe"?

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad Trump helped them out and you're right, 10 years in prison is absolutely no joke, but I think it really helped the UCLA teammates that LiAngelo Ball was involved and had a big influence from the way it looked.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: hwangjini_1 on November 14, 2017, 09:59:58 PM
Trump helped the UCLA guy’s because they faced 10 years  in prison. That is no joke.
May I ask where you read that the players faced ten years in jail?
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on November 14, 2017, 10:07:32 PM
Glad they're heading back home  and safe but I STILL have some serious trust issues with the White House.

Do I respect the office? Sure do and always will.

But there has been TOO MUCH......"stuff"....said.......anyone whose followed my posts in other threads know them all too well.

And I won't budge on those posts.

"Trust" is built over time....over deeds...over actions....over words. It takes time to establish.

Right now it's just not there. I'm holding out HOPE that it WILL be one day.

I'm unchanging in wanting President Trump to SUCCEED and GROW in the White House. I took that position because none other than President Obama WISHED the same for Mr. Trump.

Is this move political? While I'd hope that it's not I cannot trust that it isn't. If it is NOT political then build on this.

Stop the tweets.

Show some understanding and couth for ALL AMERICANS - not just your "base"...

I'm praying for his success but I have my doubts and have some serious trust issues.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: CelticsElite on November 14, 2017, 10:31:49 PM
Trump helped the UCLA guy’s because they faced 10 years  in prison. That is no joke.
May I ask where you read that the players faced ten years in jail?
https://sports.yahoo.com/liangelo-ball-ucla-teammates-face-3-10-years-prison-convicted-shoplifting-013958780.html

I meant prison not jail
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: kozlodoev on November 14, 2017, 10:35:05 PM
Trump helped the UCLA guy’s because they faced 10 years  in prison. That is no joke.
May I ask where you read that the players faced ten years in jail?
https://sports.yahoo.com/liangelo-ball-ucla-teammates-face-3-10-years-prison-convicted-shoplifting-013958780.html

I meant prison not jail
3 to 10 is not 10. Also, as we've already seen, even in MA you can get 5 years for felony larceny.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: Moranis on November 14, 2017, 10:40:01 PM
Trump helped the UCLA guy’s because they faced 10 years  in prison. That is no joke.
May I ask where you read that the players faced ten years in jail?
https://sports.yahoo.com/liangelo-ball-ucla-teammates-face-3-10-years-prison-convicted-shoplifting-013958780.html

I meant prison not jail
3 to 10 is not 10. Also, as we've already seen, even in MA you can get 5 years for felony larceny.
3 to 10 means they faced 10 years
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: CelticsElite on November 14, 2017, 10:47:08 PM
Trump helped the UCLA guy’s because they faced 10 years  in prison. That is no joke.
May I ask where you read that the players faced ten years in jail?
https://sports.yahoo.com/liangelo-ball-ucla-teammates-face-3-10-years-prison-convicted-shoplifting-013958780.html

I meant prison not jail
3 to 10 is not 10. Also, as we've already seen, even in MA you can get 5 years for felony larceny.
3 to 10 means they faced 10 years
exactly. If they get 10 or not is at a judges discretion. Trump saved them from that
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: CelticsElite on November 14, 2017, 10:48:26 PM
Trump helped the UCLA guy’s because they faced 10 years  in prison. That is no joke.
May I ask where you read that the players faced ten years in jail?
https://sports.yahoo.com/liangelo-ball-ucla-teammates-face-3-10-years-prison-convicted-shoplifting-013958780.html

I meant prison not jail
3 to 10 is not 10. Also, as we've already seen, even in MA you can get 5 years for felony larceny.
isnt felony larceny basically grand theft? It’s not surprising you can get 5 years for stealing something worth a lot of money 
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: eja117 on November 14, 2017, 10:49:20 PM
I'm a little curious about something. Are the people that were like "Oh gee. It's just way too mean to put these kids in jail for this" going to say "I'm so glad Trump intervened. He really came through"?

Is that gonna happen?
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on November 14, 2017, 10:56:28 PM
I'm a little curious about something. Are the people that were like "Oh gee. It's just way too mean to put these kids in jail for this" going to say "I'm so glad Trump intervened. He really came through"?

Is that gonna happen?

Nope.

See my post above.

Trust. It's it takes time to build.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: CelticsElite on November 14, 2017, 11:00:07 PM
I'm a little curious about something. Are the people that were like "Oh gee. It's just way too mean to put these kids in jail for this" going to say "I'm so glad Trump intervened. He really came through"?

Is that gonna happen?

Nope.

See my post above.

Trust. It's it takes time to build.
didn't the election prove America trusts trump
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: eja117 on November 14, 2017, 11:04:10 PM
I'm a little curious about something. Are the people that were like "Oh gee. It's just way too mean to put these kids in jail for this" going to say "I'm so glad Trump intervened. He really came through"?

Is that gonna happen?

Nope.

See my post above.

Trust. It's it takes time to build.
True. But isn't credit owed where credit is due?  Hey I don't think he should have intervened, but that's just me
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on November 14, 2017, 11:05:27 PM
I'm a little curious about something. Are the people that were like "Oh gee. It's just way too mean to put these kids in jail for this" going to say "I'm so glad Trump intervened. He really came through"?

Is that gonna happen?

Nope.

See my post above.

Trust. It's it takes time to build.
didn't the election prove America trusts trump

As I've observed your posts here over time TBH I don't know whether to LOL at this our try to understand it.

There are SO MANY ways to go with this but I'll just end it here.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: KGs Knee on November 14, 2017, 11:09:02 PM
Just goes to show that being rich and privileged cuts across races, and contrary to popular belief, is not exclusive to old white people.

Personally, I think it's dumb Trump helped "intervene" here, as I'm sure these kids learned absolutely nothing from this situation, seemingly getting out of it without having to face any real consequences. But such is the life of a celebrity, even if that celebrity was never really earned in the first place.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: CelticsElite on November 14, 2017, 11:09:50 PM
I'm a little curious about something. Are the people that were like "Oh gee. It's just way too mean to put these kids in jail for this" going to say "I'm so glad Trump intervened. He really came through"?

Is that gonna happen?

Nope.

See my post above.

Trust. It's it takes time to build.
didn't the election prove America trusts trump

As I've observed your posts here over time TBH I don't know whether to LOL at this our try to understand it.

There are SO MANY ways to go with this but I'll just end it here.
lol
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on November 14, 2017, 11:11:19 PM
I'm a little curious about something. Are the people that were like "Oh gee. It's just way too mean to put these kids in jail for this" going to say "I'm so glad Trump intervened. He really came through"?

Is that gonna happen?

Nope.

See my post above.

Trust. It's it takes time to build.
True. But isn't credit owed where credit is due?  Hey I don't think he should have intervened, but that's just me

Ok. Thanks, Mr. Trump - for intervening in this when - at least on the surface - you "HAD" to.

The main thing here is that they are HOME and SAFE.

But credit = trust.

"Tell those SOBs to STAND UP!!!" (National Anthem).

How he handled Puerto Rico.

"There are good people - on BOTH SIDES" (my good home state of Virginia - in CHARLOTTESVILLE).

Other instances where you and I PM'd each other on, Eja. You know what that is.

Trust. It's just not there.

Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on November 14, 2017, 11:13:45 PM
I'm a little curious about something. Are the people that were like "Oh gee. It's just way too mean to put these kids in jail for this" going to say "I'm so glad Trump intervened. He really came through"?

Is that gonna happen?

Nope.

See my post above.

Trust. It's it takes time to build.
didn't the election prove America trusts trump

As I've observed your posts here over time TBH I don't know whether to LOL at this our try to understand it.

There are SO MANY ways to go with this but I'll just end it here.
lol

Yes - it is sometimes best to "just" lol.

Laughter is food for the soul, right?
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: eja117 on November 14, 2017, 11:14:03 PM
I'm a little curious about something. Are the people that were like "Oh gee. It's just way too mean to put these kids in jail for this" going to say "I'm so glad Trump intervened. He really came through"?

Is that gonna happen?

Nope.

See my post above.

Trust. It's it takes time to build.
True. But isn't credit owed where credit is due?  Hey I don't think he should have intervened, but that's just me

Ok. Thanks, Mr. Trump - for intervening in this when - at least on the surface - you "HAD" to.

The main thing here is that they are HOME and SAFE.

But credit = trust.

"Tell those SOBs to STAND UP!!!" (National Anthem).

How he handled Puerto Rico.

"There are good people - on BOTH SIDES" (my good home state of Virginia - in CHARLOTTESVILLE).

Other instances where you and I PM'd each other on, Eja. You know what that is.

Trust. It's just not there.
Why do you think Trump had to intervene in this?
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: CelticsElite on November 14, 2017, 11:15:54 PM
I'm a little curious about something. Are the people that were like "Oh gee. It's just way too mean to put these kids in jail for this" going to say "I'm so glad Trump intervened. He really came through"?

Is that gonna happen?

Nope.

See my post above.

Trust. It's it takes time to build.
True. But isn't credit owed where credit is due?  Hey I don't think he should have intervened, but that's just me

Ok. Thanks, Mr. Trump - for intervening in this when - at least on the surface - you "HAD" to.

The main thing here is that they are HOME and SAFE.

But credit = trust.

"Tell those SOBs to STAND UP!!!" (National Anthem).

How he handled Puerto Rico.

"There are good people - on BOTH SIDES" (my good home state of Virginia - in CHARLOTTESVILLE).

Other instances where you and I PM'd each other on, Eja. You know what that is.

Trust. It's just not there.
don't you think most Americans who voted in trump disagree? Like the anthem position of trump.  After trump called for a NFL boycott, nfl viewership plummeted so hard the owners started enforcing a anthem standing policy.. Jones is actually suing goodell over this mess which caused nfl businesses to lose viewership/money
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on November 14, 2017, 11:21:44 PM
I'm a little curious about something. Are the people that were like "Oh gee. It's just way too mean to put these kids in jail for this" going to say "I'm so glad Trump intervened. He really came through"?

Is that gonna happen?

Nope.

See my post above.

Trust. It's it takes time to build.
True. But isn't credit owed where credit is due?  Hey I don't think he should have intervened, but that's just me

Ok. Thanks, Mr. Trump - for intervening in this when - at least on the surface - you "HAD" to.

The main thing here is that they are HOME and SAFE.

But credit = trust.

"Tell those SOBs to STAND UP!!!" (National Anthem).

How he handled Puerto Rico.

"There are good people - on BOTH SIDES" (my good home state of Virginia - in CHARLOTTESVILLE).

Other instances where you and I PM'd each other on, Eja. You know what that is.

Trust. It's just not there.
don't you think most Americans who voted in trump disagree? Like the anthem position of trump.  After trump called for a NFL boycott, nfl viewership plummeted so hard the owners started enforcing a anthem standing policy.. Jones is actually suing goodell over this mess which caused nfl businesses to lose viewership/money

So you're going to tell me that 63 million Americans approved of what I just posted above?

If this is true then God help this country.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on November 14, 2017, 11:27:09 PM
I'm a little curious about something. Are the people that were like "Oh gee. It's just way too mean to put these kids in jail for this" going to say "I'm so glad Trump intervened. He really came through"?

Is that gonna happen?

Nope.

See my post above.

Trust. It's it takes time to build.
True. But isn't credit owed where credit is due?  Hey I don't think he should have intervened, but that's just me

Ok. Thanks, Mr. Trump - for intervening in this when - at least on the surface - you "HAD" to.

The main thing here is that they are HOME and SAFE.

But credit = trust.

"Tell those SOBs to STAND UP!!!" (National Anthem).

How he handled Puerto Rico.

"There are good people - on BOTH SIDES" (my good home state of Virginia - in CHARLOTTESVILLE).

Other instances where you and I PM'd each other on, Eja. You know what that is.

Trust. It's just not there.
Why do you think Trump had to intervene in this?

C'mon Eja...are you being real here or facetious?

Your PM's to me over the Chief of Staff's Civil War comments showed that at least YOU had some understanding - or I hope you just weren't trying to placate me.

To try my best to answer your question - He did NOT have to intervene. But he chose to - perhaps out of the requests of his staff or others.

I believe Mr. Trump has some good in him. I also see other stuff that concerns me.

Again - TRUST. It's built over time - by words, actions and deeds.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: Roy H. on November 14, 2017, 11:41:05 PM
If you want to discuss Trump, do it in the Current Events forum.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: kozlodoev on November 15, 2017, 07:34:30 AM
Trump helped the UCLA guy’s because they faced 10 years  in prison. That is no joke.
May I ask where you read that the players faced ten years in jail?
https://sports.yahoo.com/liangelo-ball-ucla-teammates-face-3-10-years-prison-convicted-shoplifting-013958780.html

I meant prison not jail
3 to 10 is not 10. Also, as we've already seen, even in MA you can get 5 years for felony larceny.
isnt felony larceny basically grand theft? It’s not surprising you can get 5 years for stealing something worth a lot of money
Yeah, but the definition of "a lot of money" differs under different state statutes. It's as little as $250 in MA.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: Celtics4ever on November 15, 2017, 07:54:03 AM
Quote
A criminal offense like shoplifting can carry a punishment of up to 10 years in prison in China.

https://newsone.com/3757629/china-shoplifting-laws-liangelo-ball-arrested-punishment/


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2743080-liangelo-ball-reportedly-could-face-3-10-years-in-jail-for-shoplifting-in-china

https://sports.yahoo.com/liangelo-ball-ucla-teammates-face-3-10-years-prison-convicted-shoplifting-013958780.html

Quote
China adopts a similar system for shoplifting, although one with potentially longer prison sentences. According to the Routledge Handbook of Chinese Criminology, minor crimes, such as petty theft and prostitution, are often handled through so-called “administrative punishments.” An administrative punishment is one imposed after the police determine that a person is guilty. A basic administrative punishment is some combination of up to 15 days in jail, fines and warnings.

As an additional type of “administrative punishment” in China, a person accused of petty theft or similar crimes can face “Reeducation through Labor,” or RTL. Such a punishment appears reserved more for repeat offenders. It can carry up to a four-year sentence in a reeducation facility (jail).

https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2017/11/07/liangelo-ball-ucla-china-shoplifting-arrest-jail

Looks like I am the only one in this conversation that has read up on it.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: CelticsElite on November 15, 2017, 12:16:11 PM
Do you think the three UCLA Basketball Players will say thank you President Trump? They were headed for 10 years in jail!“

I still find the whole situation crazy because Big Baller Brand I believe has a distribution deal with wzk, a popular shoe retailer in China.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: CelticsElite on November 15, 2017, 05:26:27 PM
Players press conference

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/21424183/ucla-bruins-players-suspended-indefinitely-china-shoplifting-incident

They thanked trump for the help
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: nickagneta on November 15, 2017, 05:44:21 PM
Players press conference

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/21424183/ucla-bruins-players-suspended-indefinitely-china-shoplifting-incident

They thanked trump for the help
University seems to be going light on the punishment. Suspended from team but sounds like they could be back soon if they behave. At least that's the impression I got.
Title: Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
Post by: saltlover on November 15, 2017, 06:10:44 PM
Players press conference

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/21424183/ucla-bruins-players-suspended-indefinitely-china-shoplifting-incident

They thanked trump for the help
University seems to be going light on the punishment. Suspended from team but sounds like they could be back soon if they behave. At least that's the impression I got.

My impression is that they’re suspended while it proceeds through the school judiciary process, and after that is done the athletic department/team may or may not choose to levy any additional punishment.
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: CelticsElite on November 19, 2017, 02:25:38 PM
Update:

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/932303108146892801

"Now that the three basketball players are out of China and saved from years in jail, LaVar Ball, the father of LiAngelo, is unaccepting of what I did for his son and that shoplifting is no big deal. I should have left them in jail!""

Trump says lavar doesn't accept that trump saved his kid from years in jail and that lavar is unthankful. Trump says he should have left them in jail

I agree with president trump. Trump didnt have to do anything, he did. A huge favor saving the players from a super harsh prison  system in China. They faced 10 years being locked up. Ball family seems entitled

"Who?" LaVar Ball had told ESPN's Arash Markazi on Friday when asked about Trump's involvement in the matter. "What was he over there for? Don't tell me nothing. Everybody wants to make it seem like he helped me out."
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: Rondo9 on November 19, 2017, 02:32:32 PM
edit
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: SparzWizard on November 19, 2017, 02:34:06 PM
When there are two idiots always crying for attention (Trump and Lavar) and you don't like siding with either lol.

But ofc, Trump did save LiAngelo and his buddies from big jail time...so a little appreciation would suffice, no?
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: CelticsElite on November 19, 2017, 02:39:05 PM
When there are two idiots always crying for attention (Trump and Lavar) and you don't like siding with either lol.

But ofc, Trump did save LiAngelo and his buddies from big jail time...so a little appreciation would suffice, no?
exactly

Here's what lavar said
Quote
"Who?" LaVar Ball told ESPN on Friday, when asked about Trump's involvement in the matter. "What was he over there for? Don't tell me nothing. Everybody wants to make it seem like he helped me out."

  "As long as my boy's back here, I'm fine," LaVar Ball told ESPN. "I'm happy with how things were handled. A lot of people like to say a lot of things that they thought happened over there. Like I told him, 'They try to make a big deal out of nothing sometimes.' I'm from L.A. I've seen a lot worse things happen than a guy taking some glasses. My son has built up enough character that one bad decision doesn't define him. Now if you can go back and say when he was 12 years old he was shoplifting and stealing cars and going wild, then that's a different thing.

"Everybody gets stuck on the negativity of some things and they get stuck on them too long. That's not me. I handle what's going on and then we go from there."

Lavar is basically acting like his son didn't commit any crime  and that the president didn't help. His son admitted to stealing in the press conference.  There is no doubt the President helped them as all three of the students thanked him. It must have really killed Lavar balls ego to need Donald Trump's help. Just thank the president and move on.
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: kraidstar on November 19, 2017, 02:46:06 PM
Trump's response is honestly embarrassing. He is the President and should not care whether or not LaVar is grateful. It's not his job to solicit adulation, it's his job to make good decisions that benefit the country.

But, like most narcissists, he rarely helps others unless it boosts his image and/or strokes his ego.
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on November 19, 2017, 02:50:16 PM
Trump's response is honestly embarrassing. He is the President and should not care whether or not LaVar is grateful. It's not his job to solicit adulation, it's his job to make good decisions that benefit the country.

But, like most narcissists, he rarely helps others unless it boosts his image and/or strokes his ego.

This....so much this.

I'd love for PRESIDENT Trump to act....you know...."Presidential?" for a change and not even care whether someone thanks him or not.

If his intentions WERE pure in helping out then move on. Why seek the adulation of one man?

The kids thanked him and seemed sincere. That should've been enough.

Why does he even care? Just move on and be thankful you could help.
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: cltc5 on November 19, 2017, 03:08:40 PM
Trumps right
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: hpantazo on November 19, 2017, 03:10:20 PM
Update:

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/932303108146892801

"Now that the three basketball players are out of China and saved from years in jail, LaVar Ball, the father of LiAngelo, is unaccepting of what I did for his son and that shoplifting is no big deal. I should have left them in jail!""

Trump says lavar doesn't accept that trump saved his kid from years in jail and that lavar is unthankful. Trump says he should have left them in jail

I agree with president trump. Trump didnt have to do anything, he did. A huge favor saving the players from a super harsh prison  system in China. They faced 10 years being locked up. Ball family seems entitled

"Who?" LaVar Ball had told ESPN's Arash Markazi on Friday when asked about Trump's involvement in the matter. "What was he over there for? Don't tell me nothing. Everybody wants to make it seem like he helped me out."


For once, I agree with Trump
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on November 19, 2017, 03:14:44 PM
Question for the Pro-Trumpers -

If it was Presidents Obama, Bush or even Hillary do you think that THEY would've responded as Pres. Trump did?
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: blink on November 19, 2017, 03:14:54 PM
Lavar Ball and Donald Trump both are an embarrassment to our country.
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: greece666 on November 19, 2017, 03:18:01 PM
(https://i.gyazo.com/cdfff765eca225ec0e4e123c8584b1ac.png)

https://twitter.com/andytoddcook/status/932307988370554881/photo/1
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: KGs Knee on November 19, 2017, 03:19:36 PM
(https://i.gyazo.com/cdfff765eca225ec0e4e123c8584b1ac.png)

https://twitter.com/andytoddcook/status/932307988370554881/photo/1

LOL...TP!
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: 86MaxwellSmart on November 19, 2017, 03:20:27 PM
Question for the Pro-Trumpers -

If it was Presidents Obama, Bush or even Hillary do you think that THEY would've responded as Pres. Trump did?

Nope---they wouldn't have gotten them out in the first place. Ha.
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on November 19, 2017, 03:21:24 PM
(https://i.gyazo.com/cdfff765eca225ec0e4e123c8584b1ac.png)

https://twitter.com/andytoddcook/status/932307988370554881/photo/1

This is brilliant good Sir.
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: 86MaxwellSmart on November 19, 2017, 03:22:07 PM
Trump's response is honestly embarrassing. He is the President and should not care whether or not LaVar is grateful. It's not his job to solicit adulation, it's his job to make good decisions that benefit the country.

But, like most narcissists, he rarely helps others unless it boosts his image and/or strokes his ego.

This....so much this.

I'd love for PRESIDENT Trump to act....you know...."Presidential?" for a change and not even care whether someone thanks him or not.

If his intentions WERE pure in helping out then move on. Why seek the adulation of one man?

The kids thanked him and seemed sincere. That should've been enough.

Why does he even care? Just move on and be thankful you could help.

Agreed.
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: KGs Knee on November 19, 2017, 03:24:46 PM
Question for the Pro-Trumpers -

If it was Presidents Obama, Bush or even Hillary do you think that THEY would've responded as Pres. Trump did?

IDK...none of them ever had to deal with Lavar.  He's a unique beast.  I would have settled with China by letting them imprison Lavar for life, at our cost (joking).

Still doesn't excuse Trump's behavior.  A President should be above that type of interaction.
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on November 19, 2017, 03:25:09 PM
(https://i.gyazo.com/cdfff765eca225ec0e4e123c8584b1ac.png)

https://twitter.com/andytoddcook/status/932307988370554881/photo/1

We could have The Nature Boy commentating.

(https://cactusjaq.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/ric-flair-woo-gif.gif?w=650&h=395)
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on November 19, 2017, 03:28:29 PM
Question for the Pro-Trumpers -

If it was Presidents Obama, Bush or even Hillary do you think that THEY would've responded as Pres. Trump did?

IDK...none of them ever had to deal with Lavar.  He's a unique beast.  I would have settled with China by letting them imprison Lavar for life, at our cost (joking).

Still doesn't excuse Trump's behavior.  A President should be above that type of interaction.

lol you don't mean this.

CelticsBlog would miss Lavar Ball...I seriously believe that.

Between the "Smart can't shoot" threads and the like we wouldn't have ANY conversation pieces with Lavar gone.
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: Dino Pitino on November 19, 2017, 03:34:40 PM
Quote
Still doesn't excuse Trump's behavior.  A President should be above that type of interaction.

Why? Because we expect presidents to be "diplomatic" phonies? I find Trump's lack of decorum refreshing.
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: KGs Knee on November 19, 2017, 03:36:33 PM
Question for the Pro-Trumpers -

If it was Presidents Obama, Bush or even Hillary do you think that THEY would've responded as Pres. Trump did?

IDK...none of them ever had to deal with Lavar.  He's a unique beast.  I would have settled with China by letting them imprison Lavar for life, at our cost (joking).

Still doesn't excuse Trump's behavior.  A President should be above that type of interaction.

lol you don't mean this.

CelticsBlog would miss Lavar Ball...I seriously believe that.

Between the "Smart can't shoot" threads and the like we wouldn't have ANY conversation pieces with Lavar gone.

Lavar is like the Kardashian's, they are people who satiate our penchant for gossip and drama.  But those aren't exactly redeeming traits of our society.

Lavar is a blight on our society, I'd be happy if he just disappeared.  Not saying I want harm to come to him, but he really needs to go away.
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: CelticsElite on November 19, 2017, 03:39:00 PM
Question for the Pro-Trumpers -

If it was Presidents Obama, Bush or even Hillary do you think that THEY would've responded as Pres. Trump did?

IDK...none of them ever had to deal with Lavar.  He's a unique beast.  I would have settled with China by letting them imprison Lavar for life, at our cost (joking).

Still doesn't excuse Trump's behavior.  A President should be above that type of interaction.

lol you don't mean this.

CelticsBlog would miss Lavar Ball...I seriously believe that.

Between the "Smart can't shoot" threads and the like we wouldn't have ANY conversation pieces with Lavar gone.

Lavar is like the Kardashian's, they are people who satiate our penchant for gossip and drama.  But those aren't exactly redeeming traits of our society.

Lavar is a blight on our society, I'd be happy if he just disappeared.  Not saying I want harm to come to him, but he really needs to go away.
exactly. Any attention is good attention to lavar, whether it’s positive or negative.
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: nickagneta on November 19, 2017, 03:40:22 PM
Didn't Trump tweet demanding the players should be thanking him before they even had a chance to get to the media and do so. Now he isdemanding the same thing from Lavar.

Trump is such a narcissistic, ego maniac that he constantly needs his ego stroked. Quite embarassing trait for a President. Some other country is definitely going to get the best of him to this country's detriment because of his narcissism.
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: KGs Knee on November 19, 2017, 03:40:42 PM
Quote
Still doesn't excuse Trump's behavior.  A President should be above that type of interaction.

Why? Because we expect presidents to be "diplomatic" phonies? I find Trump's lack of decorum refreshing.

No, because it's called acting like an adult.

A better way to handle Lavar here would have been to extend him an invitation to have a discussion.  Let the people see the difference between a shameless man and a man with integrity.  Let others point it out for you.
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on November 19, 2017, 03:41:18 PM
Question for the Pro-Trumpers -

If it was Presidents Obama, Bush or even Hillary do you think that THEY would've responded as Pres. Trump did?

IDK...none of them ever had to deal with Lavar.  He's a unique beast.  I would have settled with China by letting them imprison Lavar for life, at our cost (joking).

Still doesn't excuse Trump's behavior.  A President should be above that type of interaction.

lol you don't mean this.

CelticsBlog would miss Lavar Ball...I seriously believe that.

Between the "Smart can't shoot" threads and the like we wouldn't have ANY conversation pieces with Lavar gone.

Lavar is like the Kardashian's, they are people who satiate our penchant for gossip and drama.  But those aren't exactly redeeming traits of our society.

Lavar is a blight on our society, I'd be happy if he just disappeared.  Not saying I want harm to come to him, but he really needs to go away.

(https://brobible.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/lavarball23456.jpg?quality=90&w=475)
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: jambr380 on November 19, 2017, 03:50:23 PM
One thing I have been trying to do is separate Lavar from his sons - it's been difficult with all of the attention Lonzo has gotten on the hated Lakers, but it's not really fair to judge people on their parents.

In this case, the three boys thanked Trump for intervening - that should have been enough. Why Trump had to turn this into a battle with Lavar is beyond me. Trump is embarrassing; not because he is outspoken, but because he is so immature.

And anybody who is still making the argument that Trump saved these boys from 10 years of jail is just not thinking through how the judicial system works. I am not saying they wouldn't have been in trouble or even were forced to serve a short sentence (that still seems ridiculous), but that 10 year # is a maximum sentence. We have many ludicrous maximum sentences in our country that are almost always greatly reduced. With this being such a high profile case, it would have been very surprising if China really pushed this one through.
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: CelticD on November 19, 2017, 03:51:01 PM
Quote
Still doesn't excuse Trump's behavior.  A President should be above that type of interaction.

Why? Because we expect presidents to be "diplomatic" phonies? I find Trump's lack of decorum refreshing.

I don't mind his lack of formality. I get the appeal, but his pettiness is unsettling for a 71 year old. President or not.

That's the kinda thing I used say in middle school when I gave someone a pencil for a test, but they didn't give me the answer to question #4: "Man I should've NEVER given you a pencil!".

Lol like get outta here bruh.
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: CelticsElite on November 19, 2017, 04:02:57 PM
Quote
Still doesn't excuse Trump's behavior.  A President should be above that type of interaction.

Why? Because we expect presidents to be "diplomatic" phonies? I find Trump's lack of decorum refreshing.

I don't mind his lack of formality. I get the appeal, but his pettiness is unsettling for a 71 year old. President or not.

That's the kinda thing I used say in middle school when I gave someone a pencil for a test, but they didn't give me the answer to question #4: "Man I should've NEVER given you a pencil!".

Lol like get outta here bruh.
except he helped out someone's kid from not being locked in a communist country prison for a decade. This is a little different than a pencil in school
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: triboy16f on November 19, 2017, 04:05:20 PM
Lavar wins again

he baits Trump now....gives his brand/family even more exposure

Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on November 19, 2017, 04:05:45 PM
(https://images.complex.com/complex/images/c_fill,g_center,w_1200/fl_lossy,pg_1,q_auto/crwtyoeckogkgnbbqj5t/lavar-ball-wwe)

I think Lavar could take President Trump...

Put him in a suplex.

(https://pa1.narvii.com/5935/792d687d371ba353264b7cd6d3740199a547dcac_hq.gif)
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on November 19, 2017, 04:08:03 PM
Quote
Still doesn't excuse Trump's behavior.  A President should be above that type of interaction.

Why? Because we expect presidents to be "diplomatic" phonies? I find Trump's lack of decorum refreshing.

I don't mind his lack of formality. I get the appeal, but his pettiness is unsettling for a 71 year old. President or not.

That's the kinda thing I used say in middle school when I gave someone a pencil for a test, but they didn't give me the answer to question #4: "Man I should've NEVER given you a pencil!".

Lol like get outta here bruh.
except he helped out someone's kid from not being locked in a communist country prison for a decade. This is a little different than a pencil in school

Thank God that I don't seek the adulation of others for doing my job.
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: Neurotic Guy on November 19, 2017, 04:14:45 PM
Quote
Still doesn't excuse Trump's behavior.  A President should be above that type of interaction.

Why? Because we expect presidents to be "diplomatic" phonies? I find Trump's lack of decorum refreshing.

I don't.  I find it embarrassing in this case, dangerous in others.  Maturity and diplomacy in a complicated world where leaders have big egos, place less value on human life, and have weapons of mass destruction.  I'm not really comforted by a leader who is mindlessly irreverent and psychologically fragile.   But... we just see him differently.
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: Celtics4ever on November 19, 2017, 04:51:52 PM
Quote
I think Lavar could take President Trump...

Put him in a suplex.

I don't know

https://giphy.com/gifs/reactionseditor-trump-wrestling-3ohryCNP6uXSqXAoGA

JK
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: chicagoceltic on November 19, 2017, 04:56:39 PM
Question for the Pro-Trumpers -

If it was Presidents Obama, Bush or even Hillary do you think that THEY would've responded as Pres. Trump did?

IDK...none of them ever had to deal with Lavar.  He's a unique beast.  I would have settled with China by letting them imprison Lavar for life, at our cost (joking).

Still doesn't excuse Trump's behavior.  A President should be above that type of interaction.

lol you don't mean this.

CelticsBlog would miss Lavar Ball...I seriously believe that.

Between the "Smart can't shoot" threads and the like we wouldn't have ANY conversation pieces with Lavar gone.

Lavar is like the Kardashian's, they are people who satiate our penchant for gossip and drama.  But those aren't exactly redeeming traits of our society.

Lavar is a blight on our society, I'd be happy if he just disappeared.  Not saying I want harm to come to him, but he really needs to go away.
exactly. Any attention is good attention to lavar, whether it’s positive or negative.
You could substitute "Trump" for "Lavar" in the two quotes highlighted above and, in my opinion, those would be true as well.
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on November 19, 2017, 05:05:12 PM
Quote
I think Lavar could take President Trump...

Put him in a suplex.

I don't know

https://giphy.com/gifs/reactionseditor-trump-wrestling-3ohryCNP6uXSqXAoGA

JK

That was HILARIOUS, Sir...as was the one where he was giffed golfing and it hit Hillary..

President Trump is a charismatic man. I "want" to like him but I can't TRUST him, based off of some things he's said.

I want to believe that his heart is in the right place but I don't. Maybe he will prove me wrong one day but I doubt it.
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: GratefulCs on November 19, 2017, 05:05:54 PM
Quote
Still doesn't excuse Trump's behavior.  A President should be above that type of interaction.

Why? Because we expect presidents to be "diplomatic" phonies? I find Trump's lack of decorum refreshing.
ha


trump isn't a phony?
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: byennie on November 19, 2017, 05:18:56 PM
As usual, the problem is that our POTUS is a narcissistic liar.

He didn't save anyone.
Nobody was going to jail for 10 years for shoplifting. This is China, not North Korea.
In an alternate universe where he did anything, you don't go on Twitter and whine about kids giving you thanks.

I can't stand the reality TV show that is LaVar Ball, but Trump is full of (you know what). The Ball's don't owe Trump anything other than disdain for trying to take credit for the situation.
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: Ilikesports17 on November 19, 2017, 05:37:15 PM
This guy always has to say something doesn't he
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: 86MaxwellSmart on November 19, 2017, 06:44:01 PM
Quote
Still doesn't excuse Trump's behavior.  A President should be above that type of interaction.

Why? Because we expect presidents to be "diplomatic" phonies? I find Trump's lack of decorum refreshing.

Same here.
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: Dino Pitino on November 19, 2017, 08:03:51 PM
Quote
Nobody was going to jail for 10 years for shoplifting.

Oh really? You sure? How about three years?
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: hwangjini_1 on November 19, 2017, 08:13:44 PM
Quote
Nobody was going to jail for 10 years for shoplifting.

Oh really? You sure? How about three years?
where, may i ask, are you coming up with these numbers? as was already established in another thread, some parts of the US have more draconic laws than China. currently, there are about 360 people serving life sentences for minor shoplifting due to "three strikes" laws in the US.

i wish trump would intervene on their behalf.
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: Dino Pitino on November 19, 2017, 08:31:31 PM
Quote
Nobody was going to jail for 10 years for shoplifting.

Oh really? You sure? How about three years?
where, may i ask, are you coming up with these numbers? as was already established in another thread, some parts of the US have more draconic laws than China. currently, there are about 360 people serving life sentences for minor shoplifting due to "three strikes" laws in the US.

i wish trump would intervene on their behalf.

The Washington Post had this:

Quote
The sunglasses in the Louis Vuitton store in Hangzhou are priced at or around 4,900 yuan ($750). According to Chinese law, anyone stealing goods worth between 4,000 and 7,000 yuan faces between one and two years in jail, although the sentence can be mitigated if they confess, show remorse and pay compensation.

So, no, not 10 years, but one or two is no joke.

As for three strikes, do you know what the other two strikes were in those 360 cases?
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: No Nickname on November 19, 2017, 08:52:15 PM
Question for the Pro-Trumpers -

If it was Presidents Obama, Bush or even Hillary do you think that THEY would've responded as Pres. Trump did?

IDK...none of them ever had to deal with Lavar.  He's a unique beast.  I would have settled with China by letting them imprison Lavar for life, at our cost (joking).

Still doesn't excuse Trump's behavior.  A President should be above that type of interaction.

lol you don't mean this.

CelticsBlog would miss Lavar Ball...I seriously believe that.

Between the "Smart can't shoot" threads and the like we wouldn't have ANY conversation pieces with Lavar gone.

Lavar is like the Kardashian's, they are people who satiate our penchant for gossip and drama.  But those aren't exactly redeeming traits of our society.

Lavar is a blight on our society, I'd be happy if he just disappeared.  Not saying I want harm to come to him, but he really needs to go away.
exactly. Any attention is good attention to lavar, whether it’s positive or negative.

LaVar is just trolling the president. If he says nothing the story goes away. By saying what he did everyone is talking about it. It’s trending. It’s on ESPN’s home page. Yahoo’s. LaVar is playing this for all it’s worth. 

And Trump is showing his true, thin-skinned self instead of worrying about making America suck again.
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: fairweatherfan on November 19, 2017, 09:28:05 PM
Root for the meteor.
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: CelticsElite on November 19, 2017, 09:38:42 PM
Quote
Nobody was going to jail for 10 years for shoplifting.

Oh really? You sure? How about three years?
where, may i ask, are you coming up with these numbers? as was already established in another thread, some parts of the US have more draconic laws than China. currently, there are about 360 people serving life sentences for minor shoplifting due to "three strikes" laws in the US.

i wish trump would intervene on their behalf.

The Washington Post had this:

Quote
The sunglasses in the Louis Vuitton store in Hangzhou are priced at or around 4,900 yuan ($750). According to Chinese law, anyone stealing goods worth between 4,000 and 7,000 yuan faces between one and two years in jail, although the sentence can be mitigated if they confess, show remorse and pay compensation.

So, no, not 10 years, but one or two is no joke.

As for three strikes, do you know what the other two strikes were in those 360 cases?
how do they know which sunglasses were stolen? China doesn’t have public police records like the US does. For all we know the glasses could have cost more than 7000 yuan, surely they offer different prices.  Also, a Lawyer told Yahoo sports that they face 10 years :  https://sports.yahoo.com/liangelo-ball-ucla-teammates-face-3-10-years-prison-convicted-shoplifting-013958780.html


I believe Yahoo over Jeff Bezos-owned Amazon Washington Post
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: mef730 on November 19, 2017, 09:46:50 PM
Trump vs Lavar Ball; I just don't know who to root for.

Mike
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: CelticsElite on November 19, 2017, 09:48:32 PM
Quote
Nobody was going to jail for 10 years for shoplifting.

Oh really? You sure? How about three years?
where, may i ask, are you coming up with these numbers? as was already established in another thread, some parts of the US have more draconic laws than China. currently, there are about 360 people serving life sentences for minor shoplifting due to "three strikes" laws in the US.

i wish trump would intervene on their behalf.

The Washington Post had this:

Quote
The sunglasses in the Louis Vuitton store in Hangzhou are priced at or around 4,900 yuan ($750). According to Chinese law, anyone stealing goods worth between 4,000 and 7,000 yuan faces between one and two years in jail, although the sentence can be mitigated if they confess, show remorse and pay compensation.

So, no, not 10 years, but one or two is no joke.

As for three strikes, do you know what the other two strikes were in those 360 cases?
how do they know which sunglasses were stolen? China doesn’t have public policerecords like the US does. For all we know the glasses could have cost more than 7000 yuan, hey surely offer different prices on glasses. Also, a Lawyer told Yahoo sports that they face 10 years :  https://sports.yahoo.com/liangelo-ball-ucla-teammates-face-3-10-years-prison-convicted-shoplifting-013958780.html


I believe yahoo over Jeff Bezos-owned Amazon Washington Post
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: Grindfather on November 19, 2017, 10:06:24 PM
Trump vs Lavar Ball; I just don't know who to root for.

Mike

Put in those terms, I’m rooting for China.
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: CelticsElite on November 20, 2017, 02:56:53 AM
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/932392209445457920

“Shoplifting is a very big deal in China, as it should be (5-10 years in jail), but not to father LaVar. Should have gotten his son out during my next trip to China instead. China told them why they were released. Very ungrateful!”

I’m certain President helped get the students out of jail. He’s very confident in this Reiteration. China told him about the punishment so this goes against the ridiculous Washington post article saying it’s only 2 years  in jail
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: Beat LA on November 20, 2017, 04:40:16 AM
So sad!
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: jambr380 on November 20, 2017, 08:24:41 AM
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/932392209445457920

“Shoplifting is a very big deal in China, as it should be (5-10 years in jail), but not to father LaVar. Should have gotten his son out during my next trip to China instead. China told them why they were released. Very ungrateful!”

I’m certain President helped get the students out of jail. He’s very confident in this Reiteration. China told him about the punishment so this goes against the ridiculous Washington post article saying it’s only 2 years  in jail

I think you missed this piece from Celtics4ever earlier in the thread (from an si article):

Quote
China adopts a similar system for shoplifting, although one with potentially longer prison sentences. According to the Routledge Handbook of Chinese Criminology, minor crimes, such as petty theft and prostitution, are often handled through so-called “administrative punishments.” An administrative punishment is one imposed after the police determine that a person is guilty. A basic administrative punishment is some combination of up to 15 days in jail, fines and warnings.

As an additional type of “administrative punishment” in China, a person accused of petty theft or similar crimes can face “Reeducation through Labor,” or RTL. Such a punishment appears reserved more for repeat offenders. It can carry up to a four-year sentence in a reeducation facility (jail).

While there are serious maximum penalties associated with many crimes in China (like our country), it was always very unrealistic to think that these boys would have spent 5-10 years in prison. Trump did them a favor by putting in a good word for them, but he hardly moved heaven and earth to get them off death row.

This all just needs to go away now. Steve Kerr was right, Lavar and Trump are getting exactly what they want out of this situation. Good for them.
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: Moranis on November 20, 2017, 08:26:58 AM
Even if the President did help get them out, the President should never be saying he should have left 3 American citizens, who were college kids that shoplifted, in a Chinese jail if all he had to do was make a phone call.
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: fairweatherfan on November 20, 2017, 09:29:36 AM
Quote

“Shoplifting is a very big deal in China, as it should be (5-10 years in jail), but not to father LaVar. Should have gotten his son out during my next trip to China instead. China told them why they were released. Very ungrateful!”

I think my favorite part is the guy who just paid a $25 million settlement for defrauding thousands of people with a fake university suggesting petty shoplifters should do 5-10.
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: indeedproceed on November 20, 2017, 10:21:53 AM
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/932392209445457920

“Shoplifting is a very big deal in China, as it should be (5-10 years in jail), but not to father LaVar. Should have gotten his son out during my next trip to China instead. China told them why they were released. Very ungrateful!”

I’m certain President helped get the students out of jail. He’s very confident in this Reiteration. China told him about the punishment so this goes against the ridiculous Washington post article saying it’s only 2 years  in jail

Yes, the ridiculous Washington Post article with their 'journalism' and 'sources' and 'established methodology', and 'accountability', and 'thorough background work'. What a buncha loonies! Ridiculous!
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: KGs Knee on November 20, 2017, 10:55:52 AM
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/932392209445457920

“Shoplifting is a very big deal in China, as it should be (5-10 years in jail), but not to father LaVar. Should have gotten his son out during my next trip to China instead. China told them why they were released. Very ungrateful!”

I’m certain President helped get the students out of jail. He’s very confident in this Reiteration. China told him about the punishment so this goes against the ridiculous Washington post article saying it’s only 2 years  in jail

Yes, the ridiculous Washington Post article with their 'journalism' and 'sources' and 'established methodology', and 'accountability', and 'thorough background work'. What a buncha loonies! Ridiculous!

There isn't a media outlet that exists that is above putting out a bogus story to push an agenda. None of their hands are clean, and none of them have entirely pure intentions.

Maybe WaPo is correct here, maybe they're not, I don't even really care anymore. Journalism has unfortunately become just another profession where the people who enter it are only out for their own self-serving interests and is generally populated by shady individuals.

I don't trust any of them, not very much.
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")
Post by: CelticsElite on November 22, 2017, 11:02:47 AM
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/932392209445457920

“Shoplifting is a very big deal in China, as it should be (5-10 years in jail), but not to father LaVar. Should have gotten his son out during my next trip to China instead. China told them why they were released. Very ungrateful!”

I’m certain President helped get the students out of jail. He’s very confident in this Reiteration. China told him about the punishment so this goes against the ridiculous Washington post article saying it’s only 2 years  in jail

I think you missed this piece from Celtics4ever earlier in the thread (from an si article):

Quote
China adopts a similar system for shoplifting, although one with potentially longer prison sentences. According to the Routledge Handbook of Chinese Criminology, minor crimes, such as petty theft and prostitution, are often handled through so-called “administrative punishments.” An administrative punishment is one imposed after the police determine that a person is guilty. A basic administrative punishment is some combination of up to 15 days in jail, fines and warnings.

As an additional type of “administrative punishment” in China, a person accused of petty theft or similar crimes can face “Reeducation through Labor,” or RTL. Such a punishment appears reserved more for repeat offenders. It can carry up to a four-year sentence in a reeducation facility (jail).

While there are serious maximum penalties associated with many crimes in China (like our country), it was always very unrealistic to think that these boys would have spent 5-10 years in prison. Trump did them a favor by putting in a good word for them, but he hardly moved heaven and earth to get them off death row.

This all just needs to go away now. Steve Kerr was right, Lavar and Trump are getting exactly what they want out of this situation. Good for them.
the si article is wrong
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE 11/22: trump- “Lavar is a poor mans Don King”)
Post by: CelticsElite on November 22, 2017, 11:03:29 AM
11/22
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/933280234220134401
"It wasn’t the White House, it wasn’t the State Department, it wasn’t father LaVar’s so-called people on the ground in China that got his son out of a long term prison sentence - IT WAS ME. Too bad! LaVar is just a poor man’s version of Don King, but without the hair. Just think..
LaVar, you could have spent the next 5 to 10 years during Thanksgiving with your son in China, but no NBA contract to support you. But remember LaVar, shoplifting is NOT a little thing. It’s a really big deal, especially in China. Ungrateful fool!"
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE 11/22: trump- “Lavar is a poor mans Don King”)
Post by: Vermont Green on November 22, 2017, 11:14:21 AM
11/22
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/933280234220134401
"It wasn’t the White House, it wasn’t the State Department, it wasn’t father LaVar’s so-called people on the ground in China that got his son out of a long term prison sentence - IT WAS ME. Too bad! LaVar is just a poor man’s version of Don King, but without the hair. Just think..
LaVar, you could have spent the next 5 to 10 years during Thanksgiving with your son in China, but no NBA contract to support you. But remember LaVar, shoplifting is NOT a little thing. It’s a really big deal, especially in China. Ungrateful fool!"

How Presidential.
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE 11/22: trump- “Lavar is a poor mans Don King”)
Post by: CelticsElite on November 22, 2017, 11:21:33 AM
11/22
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/933280234220134401
"It wasn’t the White House, it wasn’t the State Department, it wasn’t father LaVar’s so-called people on the ground in China that got his son out of a long term prison sentence - IT WAS ME. Too bad! LaVar is just a poor man’s version of Don King, but without the hair. Just think..
LaVar, you could have spent the next 5 to 10 years during Thanksgiving with your son in China, but no NBA contract to support you. But remember LaVar, shoplifting is NOT a little thing. It’s a really big deal, especially in China. Ungrateful fool!"

How Presidential.
no politically correct filter . I like the  don king comparison
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE 11/22: trump- “Lavar is a poor mans Don King”)
Post by: Vermont Green on November 22, 2017, 11:29:04 AM
11/22
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/933280234220134401
"It wasn’t the White House, it wasn’t the State Department, it wasn’t father LaVar’s so-called people on the ground in China that got his son out of a long term prison sentence - IT WAS ME. Too bad! LaVar is just a poor man’s version of Don King, but without the hair. Just think..
LaVar, you could have spent the next 5 to 10 years during Thanksgiving with your son in China, but no NBA contract to support you. But remember LaVar, shoplifting is NOT a little thing. It’s a really big deal, especially in China. Ungrateful fool!"

How Presidential.
no politically correct filter . I like the  don king comparison

I am not sure I understand.  Are you saying that this tweet makes you think more highly of Pres. Trump and/or that this is an indication that he is doing the job of president in the manner that you think a president should?
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE 11/22: trump- “Lavar is a poor mans Don King”)
Post by: CelticsElite on November 22, 2017, 11:55:41 AM
11/22
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/933280234220134401
"It wasn’t the White House, it wasn’t the State Department, it wasn’t father LaVar’s so-called people on the ground in China that got his son out of a long term prison sentence - IT WAS ME. Too bad! LaVar is just a poor man’s version of Don King, but without the hair. Just think..
LaVar, you could have spent the next 5 to 10 years during Thanksgiving with your son in China, but no NBA contract to support you. But remember LaVar, shoplifting is NOT a little thing. It’s a really big deal, especially in China. Ungrateful fool!"

How Presidential.
no politically correct filter . I like the  don king comparison

I am not sure I understand.  Are you saying that this tweet makes you think more highly of Pres. Trump and/or that this is an indication that he is doing the job of president in the manner that you think a president should?
both but who declared what they should and shouldn't do? Each president has a different personality 
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE 11/22: trump- “Lavar is a poor mans Don King”)
Post by: trickybilly on November 22, 2017, 12:10:03 PM
11/22
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/933280234220134401
"It wasn’t the White House, it wasn’t the State Department, it wasn’t father LaVar’s so-called people on the ground in China that got his son out of a long term prison sentence - IT WAS ME. Too bad! LaVar is just a poor man’s version of Don King, but without the hair. Just think..
LaVar, you could have spent the next 5 to 10 years during Thanksgiving with your son in China, but no NBA contract to support you. But remember LaVar, shoplifting is NOT a little thing. It’s a really big deal, especially in China. Ungrateful fool!"

How Presidential.
no politically correct filter . I like the  don king comparison

I am not sure I understand.  Are you saying that this tweet makes you think more highly of Pres. Trump and/or that this is an indication that he is doing the job of president in the manner that you think a president should?
both but who declared what they should and shouldn't do? Each president has a different personality

Right. What's your point?

For example if President Ainge signs an executive order saying that LA lose all their first round picks for the next 100 years, you would probably think that there is something a little off right?

Maybe you may even think that he is not really concentrating on what he should be.

Nah, **** it, Danny has a personality that is quirky, and he has our interests at heart, so who cares?

Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE 11/22: trump- “Lavar is a poor mans Don King”)
Post by: Vermont Green on November 22, 2017, 12:11:54 PM
both but who declared what they should and shouldn't do? Each president has a different personality

Each voter gets to declare this when they vote.  That is what democracy is.  No one decides for you.  I was just trying to clarify what you specifically felt about it.  I am not judging you, you have every right to feel however you want about our President's childish tweets.  Just as I have a right to feel they are childish and an embarrassment to the office.

Trump isn't perfect, no one is, certainly not politicians.  I like Obama but I thought he was dump to stick his nose into that incident in Cambridge where the police gave a professor a hard time when they saw him trying to break into his own home.  Obama looked bad shooting off his mouth before he knew the facts in that specific case.  You can say, "I like Trump but think this is dumb".

I think this tweet from Trump is really really really really dumb and a continuation of a pattern of actions that I think is counter to what the president should be doing.  I am certainly not cheering him on; whoo hooo, Trump is not politically correct, awesome; which I think is what you are saying.  You are not alone, there are plenty of supporters who feel the same, I just don't feel the same.
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE 11/22: Trump- “Lavar is a poor mans Don King”)
Post by: slamtheking on November 22, 2017, 12:13:28 PM
11/22
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/933280234220134401
"It wasn’t the White House, it wasn’t the State Department, it wasn’t father LaVar’s so-called people on the ground in China that got his son out of a long term prison sentence - IT WAS ME. Too bad! LaVar is just a poor man’s version of Don King, but without the hair. Just think..
LaVar, you could have spent the next 5 to 10 years during Thanksgiving with your son in China, but no NBA contract to support you. But remember LaVar, shoplifting is NOT a little thing. It’s a really big deal, especially in China. Ungrateful fool!"

How Presidential.
if ever there were 2 morons in more need of a **** slap than these 2, I don't know who they'd be.
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE 11/22: Trump- “Lavar is a poor mans Don King”)
Post by: hpantazo on November 22, 2017, 12:33:16 PM
11/22
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/933280234220134401
"It wasn’t the White House, it wasn’t the State Department, it wasn’t father LaVar’s so-called people on the ground in China that got his son out of a long term prison sentence - IT WAS ME. Too bad! LaVar is just a poor man’s version of Don King, but without the hair. Just think..
LaVar, you could have spent the next 5 to 10 years during Thanksgiving with your son in China, but no NBA contract to support you. But remember LaVar, shoplifting is NOT a little thing. It’s a really big deal, especially in China. Ungrateful fool!"

How Presidential.
if ever there were 2 morons in more need of a **** slap than these 2, I don't know who they'd be.

I’m so glad they turned on each other, it’s like an early Xmas gift, soooo entertaining!
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE 11/22: Trump- “Lavar is a poor mans Don King”)
Post by: CelticsElite on November 22, 2017, 12:43:33 PM
11/22
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/933280234220134401
"It wasn’t the White House, it wasn’t the State Department, it wasn’t father LaVar’s so-called people on the ground in China that got his son out of a long term prison sentence - IT WAS ME. Too bad! LaVar is just a poor man’s version of Don King, but without the hair. Just think..
LaVar, you could have spent the next 5 to 10 years during Thanksgiving with your son in China, but no NBA contract to support you. But remember LaVar, shoplifting is NOT a little thing. It’s a really big deal, especially in China. Ungrateful fool!"

How Presidential.
if ever there were 2 morons in more need of a **** slap than these 2, I don't know who they'd be.

I’m so glad they turned on each other, it’s like an early Xmas gift, soooo entertaining!

Exactly. Whether or not you are against trump or the ball family, no one can deny this back and forth between the 2 is hilarious
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE 11/22: Trump- “Lavar is a poor mans Don King”)
Post by: Celtics4ever on November 22, 2017, 05:51:33 PM
Quote
I’m so glad they turned on each other, it’s like an early Xmas gift, soooo entertaining!

Its a match made in heaven...Battle of the blowhards!
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE 11/22: Trump- “Lavar is a poor mans Don King”)
Post by: jambr380 on December 04, 2017, 05:06:04 PM
Figured this was a good place to post this:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/21667748/lavar-ball-pulls-son-liangelo-ball-ucla (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/21667748/lavar-ball-pulls-son-liangelo-ball-ucla)

Quote
"We are exploring other options with Gelo," LaVar Ball said. "He's out of there...I'm going to make him way better for the draft than UCLA ever could have."

This could get even more interesting...

Note: LaMelo is still committed to UCLA
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE 11/22: Trump- “Lavar is a poor mans Don King”)
Post by: saltlover on December 04, 2017, 05:12:12 PM
Figured this was a good place to post this:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/21667748/lavar-ball-pulls-son-liangelo-ball-ucla (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/21667748/lavar-ball-pulls-son-liangelo-ball-ucla)

Quote
"We are exploring other options with Gelo," LaVar Ball said. "He's out of there...I'm going to make him way better for the draft than UCLA ever could have."

This could get even more interesting...

Note: LaMelo is still committed to UCLA

I can’t see even a G-League team wanting this exposure...
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE 11/22: Trump- “Lavar is a poor mans Don King”)
Post by: Phantom255x on December 04, 2017, 05:14:59 PM
Figured this was a good place to post this:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/21667748/lavar-ball-pulls-son-liangelo-ball-ucla (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/21667748/lavar-ball-pulls-son-liangelo-ball-ucla)

Quote
"We are exploring other options with Gelo," LaVar Ball said. "He's out of there...I'm going to make him way better for the draft than UCLA ever could have."

This could get even more interesting...

Note: LaMelo is still committed to UCLA

Can UCLA just refuse to let LaMelo into their school?

IF so, then I hope they do lol.
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE 11/22: Trump- “Lavar is a poor mans Don King”)
Post by: jambr380 on December 04, 2017, 05:22:25 PM
Can UCLA just refuse to let LaMelo into their school?

IF so, then I hope they do lol.

I'm sure UCLA would love the one-year circus that is LaMelo Ball - it also doesn't hurt that he may be the best of the Ball brothers. They will get all kinds of attention that they otherwise wouldn't have. Frankly, I think the only reason these kids didn't immediately get kicked off the team after China was because LiAngelo is a huge name.

I can’t see even a G-League team wanting this exposure...

I suppose this is the equivalent of a player skipping college and hiring a personal trainer. I am not sure how this will work out for LiAngelo (I don't think the actual shoplifting incident should have any impact on his being drafted), but he better show real promise or you are probably right that no team will want him (err, I mean, Lavar) near their locker room.
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE 11/22: Trump- “Lavar is a poor mans Don King”)
Post by: Vermont Green on December 04, 2017, 05:24:54 PM
Why couldn't LiAngelo just drop out of UCLA and go play for some non-NBA pro team.  Maybe the Harlem Globetrotters?

My understanding is that LaMelo's commitment to UCLA is verbal.  It makes things complicated but probably not legally binding.
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE 11/22: Trump- “Lavar is a poor mans Don King”)
Post by: saltlover on December 04, 2017, 05:29:38 PM
Can UCLA just refuse to let LaMelo into their school?

IF so, then I hope they do lol.

I'm sure UCLA would love the one-year circus that is LaMelo Ball - it also doesn't hurt that he may be the best of the Ball brothers. They will get all kinds of attention that they otherwise wouldn't have. Frankly, I think the only reason these kids didn't immediately get kicked off the team after China was because LiAngelo is a huge name.

I can’t see even a G-League team wanting this exposure...

I suppose this is the equivalent of a player skipping college and hiring a personal trainer. I am not sure how this will work out for LiAngelo (I don't think the actual shoplifting incident should have any impact on his being drafted), but he better show real promise or you are probably right that no team will want him (err, I mean, Lavar) near their locker room.

I don’t think anyone expects LaMelo at UCLA or any other college at this point.  I doubt he’d even meet amateur-eligibility requirements thanks to his shoe line (courtesy of his father).
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE 11/22: Trump- “Lavar is a poor mans Don King”)
Post by: hwangjini_1 on December 04, 2017, 05:55:48 PM
Why couldn't LiAngelo just drop out of UCLA and go play for some non-NBA pro team.  Maybe the Harlem Globetrotters?

My understanding is that LaMelo's commitment to UCLA is verbal.  It makes things complicated but probably not legally binding.

heck, maybe lamelo can go play in china!!!!  ;D
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE 11/22: Trump- “Lavar is a poor mans Don King”)
Post by: Phantom255x on December 04, 2017, 05:57:05 PM
Why couldn't LiAngelo just drop out of UCLA and go play for some non-NBA pro team.  Maybe the Harlem Globetrotters?

My understanding is that LaMelo's commitment to UCLA is verbal.  It makes things complicated but probably not legally binding.

heck, maybe lamelo can go play in china!!!!  ;D

Him and Sullinger would just be too much for the other teams to handle. Unfair.

 :laugh:
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE 11/22: Trump- “Lavar is a poor mans Don King”)
Post by: eja117 on December 04, 2017, 06:33:19 PM
Eja is Cassandra over here. Eja is always right, but nobody listens to him. The key is to realize there is no spoon.

None of this would ever have happened if everyone had listened to me and voted for Tim Tebow.

I hate you guys. I'm going home.

(http://static.autoblog.nl/images/wp2009/cartman-screw-you-guys.jpg)
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE 11/22: Trump- “Lavar is a poor mans Don King”)
Post by: eja117 on December 04, 2017, 06:43:30 PM
New theory.


In the middle of the night representatives from the FBI, CIA, Skull and Bones, the Illuminati, the Boy Scouts, the nuns, the Volturi, the Men in Black, Star Fleet, the Justice League, the American League, the National League, and the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen entered LaVar Ball's house, found him eating pork rinds on the couch and said "We need you for a very special mission. Nobody can know. The people aren't ready.  We have 2 Hobbits on a mission to Mount Doom and we need you to keep the eye of Trump fixed on you. You can say whatever you want to say. Tweet whatever you will, but keep all his attention fixed on you.  You see.....President Trump is possessed of the spirit of Sauron. If the Hobbits don't succeed the age of the Orc shall be upon us."

To which LaVar said "So basically you just want me to sorta be a jerk?"

And they said "Yeah. Be yourself. Can you do that?"

And he said "I'm actually a bigger jerk than Stalin. I was a jerk way before the president and way better than any other jerk. If I wanted my sons to major in jerkdom they'd be jerkier than Jamaican jerk cooking or even Steve Martin in the movie The Jerk. I invented the dance Jerkin. It's like Twerking, but different.  I can...."

And then they all said "Thanks." and left.
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE 11/22: Trump- “Lavar is a poor mans Don King”)
Post by: sdceltsfan on December 04, 2017, 07:53:14 PM
Is there one person on the planet who wouldn't pay to see Lavar Ball vs Trump in a boxing match?

Can Dana White or the boxing federation line this up???

All proceeds go to covfefe deprived children around the world.
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE 11/22: Trump- “Lavar is a poor mans Don King”)
Post by: hwangjini_1 on December 06, 2017, 12:25:33 AM
And now lavar has pulled liangelo out of UCLA basketball.


Final UCLA stats: 0 minutes, 0 points, 0 assists, 0 rebounds, 0 blocks and 1 steal.  ;D
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE 11/22: Trump- “Lavar is a poor mans Don King”)
Post by: wiley on December 06, 2017, 12:27:25 AM
And now lavar has pulled liangelo out of UCLA basketball.


Final UCLA stats: 0 minutes, 0 points, 0 assists, 0 rebounds, 0 blocks and 1 steal.  ;D

100 tp's!   ;D
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE 11/22: Trump- “Lavar is a poor mans Don King”)
Post by: CelticsElite on December 06, 2017, 12:29:51 AM
And now lavar has pulled liangelo out of UCLA basketball.


Final UCLA stats: 0 minutes, 0 points, 0 assists, 0 rebounds, 0 blocks and 1 steal.  ;D
hes going to shop liangelo to which college produced the largest paycheck
“This is a ball brother man. Your tv ratings are gonna skyrocket. We need $500k or we go to another school”
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE 11/22: Trump- “Lavar is a poor mans Don King”)
Post by: KGs Knee on December 06, 2017, 01:09:29 AM
New theory.


In the middle of the night representatives from the FBI, CIA, Skull and Bones, the Illuminati, the Boy Scouts, the nuns, the Volturi, the Men in Black, Star Fleet, the Justice League, the American League, the National League, and the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen entered LaVar Ball's house, found him eating pork rinds on the couch and said "We need you for a very special mission. Nobody can know. The people aren't ready.  We have 2 Hobbits on a mission to Mount Doom and we need you to keep the eye of Trump fixed on you. You can say whatever you want to say. Tweet whatever you will, but keep all his attention fixed on you.  You see.....President Trump is possessed of the spirit of Sauron. If the Hobbits don't succeed the age of the Orc shall be upon us."

To which LaVar said "So basically you just want me to sorta be a jerk?"

And they said "Yeah. Be yourself. Can you do that?"

And he said "I'm actually a bigger jerk than Stalin. I was a jerk way before the president and way better than any other jerk. If I wanted my sons to major in jerkdom they'd be jerkier than Jamaican jerk cooking or even Steve Martin in the movie The Jerk. I invented the dance Jerkin. It's like Twerking, but different.  I can...."

And then they all said "Thanks." and left.

TP!

truly made me laugh out loud
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE 11/22: Trump- “Lavar is a poor mans Don King”)
Post by: Beat LA on December 06, 2017, 03:39:17 AM
Liangelo is two letters and an apostrophe away from being a sandwich shop.  I wonder if Lavar grilled ;) ::) :laugh: him about the shoplifting incident. *groan*
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE 11/22: Trump- “Lavar is a poor mans Don King”)
Post by: TA9 on December 06, 2017, 05:22:32 AM
UPDATE:
Seems like LaMelo - like LiAngelo - isn't going to play for UCLA next season:
Quote
@Sportando
LaMelo and LiAngelo Ball have been offered to Croatian champions @KKCedevita, per source.
The two Ball brothers have also been offered to some Japanese teams

Quote
@GuillaumeVIZADE
Also been offered to french teams proA-proB. "Money is not the prblm but they want to play together, and will give exposure to the teams"
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE 11/22: Trump- “Lavar is a poor mans Don King”)
Post by: eja117 on December 06, 2017, 09:22:22 AM
And now lavar has pulled liangelo out of UCLA basketball.


Final UCLA stats: 0 minutes, 0 points, 0 assists, 0 rebounds, 0 blocks and 1 steal.  ;D
Ohhhhhhh! Please tweet that everywhere funny
Title: Re: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE 11/22: Trump- “Lavar is a poor mans Don King”)
Post by: fairweatherfan on December 06, 2017, 09:51:30 AM
And now lavar has pulled liangelo out of UCLA basketball.


Final UCLA stats: 0 minutes, 0 points, 0 assists, 0 rebounds, 0 blocks and 1 steal.  ;D
Ohhhhhhh! Please tweet that everywhere funny

His per-36 steals is infinity!!