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Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: Fireworks_Boom! on October 30, 2017, 12:23:21 PM

Title: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Fireworks_Boom! on October 30, 2017, 12:23:21 PM
Multitude of factors to consider:

1) Gordon Haywards injury impacts ability to truly compete this year (although I strongly disagree with this notion given the play of our rook)

2) Age

3) Center heavy draft next year with Lakers pick likely conveying.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: PhoSita on October 30, 2017, 12:24:54 PM
Oh for goodness sake.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Phantom255x on October 30, 2017, 12:25:09 PM
Great.... we have a ridiculous poll about trading Hayward.. and now this?  ::)
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: smokeablount on October 30, 2017, 12:25:18 PM
I don't think we can since he's a year 2 max FA, and even if we could I'm not sure what he'd fetch?  He's probably a lot more valuable than his return.

EDIT: But if we could trade him or wanted to, I'd say his value is pretty high right now.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: More Banners on October 30, 2017, 12:26:10 PM
What?  Why?  So we can go to the Finals next year with a rookie big?

When we have good players, can we just keep them please?
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Phantom255x on October 30, 2017, 12:26:43 PM
I don't think we can since he's a year 2 max FA, and if we could I'm not sure what he'd fetch?

Not just that, but it's an extremely bad look if you trade the franchise's FIRST marquee FA signing in history... less than 2 years into his contract.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: CelticsElite on October 30, 2017, 12:27:46 PM
Why even mention gordons injury? Are we supposed to trade the whole team because he got injured? I don't get it.. panicking and making trades of important players simply because another player got inured is shortsighted
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Phantom255x on October 30, 2017, 12:29:07 PM
Why even mention gordons injury? Are we supposed to trade the whole team because he got injured? I don't get it.. panicking and making trades of important players simply because another player got inured is shortsighted

Apparently w/o Hayward we are no longer a playoff team and should be tanking.  ::)

I agree he's a big loss.. but come on now...
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Phantom255x on October 30, 2017, 12:31:33 PM
This might end up being the 2nd most lopsided poll in Cblog within the past week.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: nickagneta on October 30, 2017, 12:32:00 PM
What's next...polls about trading Kyrie, Tatum and Brown?
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: ChillyWilly on October 30, 2017, 12:32:26 PM
I'm not going to flame you for having ideas even if I don't agree with them.

Big Al is one of the most well rounded players in the NBA that it's hard to find something he struggles with or situations you don't trust him in. Name another player on the Celtics you can say samething about? Maybe, maybe, maybe Tatum but still too early to tell.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: The One on October 30, 2017, 12:34:03 PM
 ??? ??? ???

 >:( >:( >:(

Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: saltlover on October 30, 2017, 12:34:29 PM
I think we should seriously consider trading Stevens for multiple draft picks.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: liam on October 30, 2017, 12:36:15 PM
I think we should seriously consider trading Stevens for multiple draft picks.

Let's also trade the Celtics logo for a couple of second rounders!
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: saltlover on October 30, 2017, 12:36:54 PM
I think we should seriously consider trading Stevens for multiple draft picks.

Let's also trade the Celtics logo for a couple of second rounders!

Maybe we can trade GE while we’re at it.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: unclebay on October 30, 2017, 12:45:04 PM
Lol, you guys need to have your privileges revoked.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Denis998 on October 30, 2017, 12:45:32 PM
its getting harder and harder for me to vist this forum
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Fireworks_Boom! on October 30, 2017, 12:46:42 PM
 Not sure why there is an assumption that I would vote yes on this hypothetical question.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Dino Pitino on October 30, 2017, 12:47:47 PM
I voted no of course, but I do think Horford is having a peak season, so technically this would be a sell high point. He's so valuable across the board, he's a winner.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: diconzo on October 30, 2017, 12:49:26 PM
Multitude of factors to consider:

1) Gordon Haywards injury impacts ability to truly compete this year (although I strongly disagree with this notion given the play of our rook)

2) Age

3) Center heavy draft next year with Lakers pick likely conveying.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: greece66 on October 30, 2017, 12:52:55 PM
??? ??? ???

 >:( >:( >:(

 ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: bopna on October 30, 2017, 12:53:31 PM
I swear if there was only a way where you can give negative tommy points this is it...

This is the best time to fire Danny as well.
Perfect oppportunity as well to tank..sit Kyrie with a fake injury...tank...tank...tank
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: CelticD on October 30, 2017, 12:55:49 PM
It would have to be the right player of course but I'd be comfortable with doing so. As well as he's been playing, he's not untouchable for me.

I don't buy into the idea that the C's would look like an evil franchise for trading away their first big free agent acquisition either. People will get over it. Like does anybody remember how Dwight Howard signed a 3-year deal with his hometown ATL Hawks two offseasons ago and then was literally traded the very next offseason?

Nah me niether.

Edit: I voted maybe so. Come at me.  8) 8)
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: kozlodoev on October 30, 2017, 12:59:55 PM
I think we should seriously consider trading Stevens for multiple draft picks.

Let's also trade the Celtics logo for a couple of second rounders!

Maybe we can trade GE while we’re at it.
Can't do, we only signed them last year.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Granath on October 30, 2017, 01:00:03 PM
Not sure why there is an assumption that I would vote yes on this hypothetical question.

It's not your vote. It's that you posted such a dumb question in the first place.

This isn't a video game like NBA2K17. There are real-world negative consequences to trading a prime FA that you lured to the city under false representations. Your post doesn't even offer the possibility of those consequences which leads any reader to believe that you don't know the difference between being a video game GM and the constraints placed on a real one.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: CFAN38 on October 30, 2017, 01:03:45 PM
Unless the Cs are moving him for a younger more talented big then NO. If for instance AD,KAT or KP become available then the Cs can entertain trading Al. If not im happy to see Al play out this contract and then sign Tim Duncan style with the Cs until he retires.

Though not on their level I can see Al's game aging much like Duncan, KG, and even P Gasol. Smart bigs who can pass, hit shots and play clean team defense into their late 30s.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Phantom255x on October 30, 2017, 01:06:52 PM
It would have to be the right player of course but I'd be comfortable with doing so. As well as he's been playing, he's not untouchable for me.

I don't buy into the idea that the C's would look like an evil franchise for trading away their first big free agent acquisition either. People will get over it. Like does anybody remember how Dwight Howard signed a 3-year deal with his hometown ATL Hawks two offseasons ago and then was literally traded the very next offseason?

Nah me niether.

Edit: I voted maybe so. Come at me.  8) 8)

(https://media.tenor.com/images/b7795b796da4711ce70de48c18cdec6e/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Fireworks_Boom! on October 30, 2017, 01:10:55 PM
Not sure why there is an assumption that I would vote yes on this hypothetical question.

It's not your vote. It's that you posted such a dumb question in the first place.

This isn't a video game like NBA2K17. There are real-world negative consequences to trading a prime FA that you lured to the city under false representations. Your post doesn't even offer the possibility of those consequences which leads any reader to believe that you don't know the difference between being a video game GM and the constraints placed on a real one.

Granath, it is your opinion it's a dumb question.

Most savvy general managers are thinking 2 to 3 steps ahead of the curve and one could argue that projecting Al's decline with age, the infusion of youth at the center position with next year's deep draft, and Gordon Hayward's injury delaying our true ability to compete a year make for a perfect storm to sell high on Horford.  I'm not one of those people. I think Al has 3 to 4 more years at a very high, fundamentally sound level of competition playing on both sides of the basketball.

Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Phantom255x on October 30, 2017, 01:12:06 PM
Not sure why there is an assumption that I would vote yes on this hypothetical question.

It's not your vote. It's that you posted such a dumb question in the first place.

This isn't a video game like NBA2K17. There are real-world negative consequences to trading a prime FA that you lured to the city under false representations. Your post doesn't even offer the possibility of those consequences which leads any reader to believe that you don't know the difference between being a video game GM and the constraints placed on a real one.

Granath, it is your opinion it's a dumb question.

Most savvy general managers are thinking 2 to 3 steps ahead of the curve and one could argue that projecting Al's decline with age, the infusion of youth at the center position with next year's deep draft, and Gordon Hayward's injury delaying our true ability to compete a year make for a perfect storm to sell high on Horford.  I'm not one of those people. I think Al has 3 to 4 more years at a very high, fundamentally sound level of competition playing on both sides of the basketball.

I'm just curious, by "sell high", who do you have in mind? (Who are we trading Horford for?)
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: footey on October 30, 2017, 01:33:36 PM
I swear half the people on this site are stock brokers.

SMH...
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: arctic 3.0 on October 30, 2017, 01:35:35 PM

Stop this nonsense.
We've made our blockbuster trade,
We've assembled a seriously talented group that will compete for years.
We have young talent, prime talent, and additional valuable draft picks that will extend our window for a decade plus.
I want a moritorium on trade/tank threads.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Moranis on October 30, 2017, 01:38:44 PM
Not sure why there is an assumption that I would vote yes on this hypothetical question.

It's not your vote. It's that you posted such a dumb question in the first place.

This isn't a video game like NBA2K17. There are real-world negative consequences to trading a prime FA that you lured to the city under false representations. Your post doesn't even offer the possibility of those consequences which leads any reader to believe that you don't know the difference between being a video game GM and the constraints placed on a real one.

Granath, it is your opinion it's a dumb question.

Most savvy general managers are thinking 2 to 3 steps ahead of the curve and one could argue that projecting Al's decline with age, the infusion of youth at the center position with next year's deep draft, and Gordon Hayward's injury delaying our true ability to compete a year make for a perfect storm to sell high on Horford.  I'm not one of those people. I think Al has 3 to 4 more years at a very high, fundamentally sound level of competition playing on both sides of the basketball.

I'm just curious, by "sell high", who do you have in mind? (Who are we trading Horford for?)
Sell high means at Horford's peak value, which is probably right now.  I just can't see his value increasing at any point before his contract is up.

I voted no, but if the right trade came along, I think Boston would at least listen.  I have no idea what that trade is though.  I mean it could be a disgruntled star or it could be young players.  It could be Horford's salary as the main piece in a blockbuster.  There are so many possibilities that you just don't know. 
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: PAOBoston on October 30, 2017, 02:45:50 PM
Guys, come on. Almost as silly as the would you trade Gordon Hayward thread.

No one is really untradeable but this is kind of silly. Horford has been the team's MVP so far this season and you can argue of last post season as well. He fits this offense perfectly.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: ETNCeltics on October 30, 2017, 02:55:46 PM
No one is entertaining the notion of trading Horford, much less Ainge.

Ainge traded AB because he had 1 year left and we couldn't resign him, and immediately, we needed the cap space.

He traded IT because he had the chance to get a younger better player in return, and IT's health was just too risky to max, and IT had made it known he expected a max.

He traded Jae because, well, Jae wasn't that good, he might not have fit with GH taking his spot, and he needed the $ to match salaries.

It's not like Ainge is always looking to jettison good players. He had very good reasons for trading all 3 of the above veterans. But he's going to trade one of the better big men in the Eastern Conference so we can tank? Because the LAL pick might come to fruition next offseason?

This just makes no sense. We couldn't get out of the 1st round of the playoffs without Al. With him, we have a shot against everyone.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Granath on October 30, 2017, 02:59:23 PM
Not sure why there is an assumption that I would vote yes on this hypothetical question.

It's not your vote. It's that you posted such a dumb question in the first place.

This isn't a video game like NBA2K17. There are real-world negative consequences to trading a prime FA that you lured to the city under false representations. Your post doesn't even offer the possibility of those consequences which leads any reader to believe that you don't know the difference between being a video game GM and the constraints placed on a real one.

Granath, it is your opinion it's a dumb question.

Most savvy general managers are thinking 2 to 3 steps ahead of the curve and one could argue that projecting Al's decline with age, the infusion of youth at the center position with next year's deep draft, and Gordon Hayward's injury delaying our true ability to compete a year make for a perfect storm to sell high on Horford.  I'm not one of those people. I think Al has 3 to 4 more years at a very high, fundamentally sound level of competition playing on both sides of the basketball.

It's pretty much general consensus that it's a dumb question.

Again, you've given no consideration to real-world factors and implications of making such a trade. You can list meta data like age and salary but those things aren't the only considerations. Agents, reputation, locker room ramifications and sales/marketing all play a role in any determination. Feel free to enjoy FantasyLand in NBA2K18 but most of us understand that's not the way the real game is played.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Darío SpanishFan on October 30, 2017, 03:04:23 PM
After a proposal to trade Hayward, now this. Embarrassing as a fan base.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: kozlodoev on October 30, 2017, 03:07:09 PM
I voted no, but if the right trade came along, I think Boston would at least listen.
This is such a nonsensical statement -- mostly because it's universally true for every team and every player. It's just that in some cases it's rather hard for the "the right trade" to come along.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Donoghus on October 30, 2017, 03:11:58 PM
He's the "linchpin" guy on this team this year.  I sure as heck wouldn't trade that.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: crimson_stallion on October 30, 2017, 03:33:52 PM
No one is entertaining the notion of trading Horford, much less Ainge.

Ainge traded AB because he had 1 year left and we couldn't resign him, and immediately, we needed the cap space.

He traded IT because he had the chance to get a younger better player in return, and IT's health was just too risky to max, and IT had made it known he expected a max.

He traded Jae because, well, Jae wasn't that good, he might not have fit with GH taking his spot, and he needed the $ to match salaries.

It's not like Ainge is always looking to jettison good players. He had very good reasons for trading all 3 of the above veterans. But he's going to trade one of the better big men in the Eastern Conference so we can tank? Because the LAL pick might come to fruition next offseason?

This just makes no sense. We couldn't get out of the 1st round of the playoffs without Al. With him, we have a shot against everyone.

Bingo!
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: liam on October 30, 2017, 03:42:34 PM
I voted no, but if the right trade came along, I think Boston would at least listen.
This is such a nonsensical statement -- mostly because it's universally true for every team and every player. It's just that in some cases it's rather hard for the "the right trade" to come along.

It's nonsense because it's universally true?  :o
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: More Banners on October 30, 2017, 03:51:40 PM
After a proposal to trade Hayward, now this. Embarrassing as a fan base.

It's not the fanbase. Russian operatives sowing dissention.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on October 30, 2017, 03:52:11 PM
another tank thread
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: crimson_stallion on October 30, 2017, 03:58:55 PM
Not sure why there is an assumption that I would vote yes on this hypothetical question.

It's not your vote. It's that you posted such a dumb question in the first place.

This isn't a video game like NBA2K17. There are real-world negative consequences to trading a prime FA that you lured to the city under false representations. Your post doesn't even offer the possibility of those consequences which leads any reader to believe that you don't know the difference between being a video game GM and the constraints placed on a real one.

Granath, it is your opinion it's a dumb question.

Most savvy general managers are thinking 2 to 3 steps ahead of the curve and one could argue that projecting Al's decline with age, the infusion of youth at the center position with next year's deep draft, and Gordon Hayward's injury delaying our true ability to compete a year make for a perfect storm to sell high on Horford.  I'm not one of those people. I think Al has 3 to 4 more years at a very high, fundamentally sound level of competition playing on both sides of the basketball.

It's pretty much general consensus that it's a dumb question.

Again, you've given no consideration to real-world factors and implications of making such a trade. You can list meta data like age and salary but those things aren't the only considerations. Agents, reputation, locker room ramifications and sales/marketing all play a role in any determination. Feel free to enjoy FantasyLand in NBA2K18 but most of us understand that's not the way the real game is played.

Is really not a dumb question.

Kyrie is 25.  Tatum and Brown are showing real signs of breaking out at 19 and 20.  Hayward is 27. Smart and Rozier are around 24 or so.  Horford is 32.  Which of those numbers stands out?

You all talk about "Armchair GMs" and yet what are you all? Exactly that.

You all talk about trades that would never happen...but if somebody made a thread like this 8 months ago suggesting we trade Isaiah for Kyrie the general response would be petty much the same. I can just set the responses now:

- "Danny wouldn't do that, that's not how NBA GMs work in the real world.  He's a 29 PPG scorer. He's the heart of the team.  He just played a day after his sister died.  There's no way Danny would trade him.  Besides why would Cleveland trade Kyrie when they are almost guaranteed to make the finals again? That's a stupid idea. "

But wait...

Fact is you don't know what deals could potentially present themselves,  what if Anthony Davis suddenly becomes available? The you can probably kiss Al goodnight.

The other fact is you don't know what Danny's master plan is.  Does he want to win now? If so then it's unlikely a better player then horford becomes available, so the chance of a trade happening is unlikely. But if his aim is to develop a you team with the aim of contending 2-3 years from now (which is exactly what Wyc is on record saying) then you don't look at the trade in terms of who is better now - you look at it in terms of who is going to be better 2-4 years into the future.  And there are plenty of guys out there who are not as good as horford right now, but will almost certainly be better then him 3 years from now.

Horford so far this year is playing some of the best basketball I've seen him play in the last 3-4 years, but ultimately that probably will average out and his numbers likely will not be sustained at 15/9/5 and will likely settle back down to 14/7/5 with a FG% in the mid 40s - so if Danny WERE to trade him, then (as the OP suggested), now would be the time.  Now when he's putting up peak numbers, looking fresh and nimble, and hasn't just gone through that half of that 82 game grind.

That's not saying that we SHOULD trade him - I'm not saying that at all.  I'm just saying that the OP's question is by no means insane or silly, and I have no doubts in my mind Danny would consider doing so if the right offer came along.

Righr now I would say that Kyrie, Tatum, Hayward and even Brown are all more "untouchable" then Horford is.  This is a team looking firmly towards the future, and Horfords value right now is much stronger then it will be 3-4 years from now.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Ilikesports17 on October 30, 2017, 04:07:51 PM
Al Horford plays "badly", CelticsBlog: "Al Horford sucks and we are stuck with him for years. Hopefully we could fool some team into eating his contract. Maybe throw in a draft pick?"

Al Horford plays really well, CelticsBlog: "Is now a good time to sell high?"

Big Al cant win lol
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Ogaju on October 30, 2017, 04:15:51 PM
There should be a default option for 'LOL' on all polls
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Ogaju on October 30, 2017, 04:17:03 PM
I swear half the people on this site are stock brokers.

SMH...

Don't confuse day traders with stock brokers.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Ilikesports17 on October 30, 2017, 04:20:18 PM
Oh for goodness sake.
^the only response this thread needed
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Celtics4ever on October 30, 2017, 04:44:58 PM
I would like to trade the OP for some rat poison, and you're getting a deal with the rat poison!
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: kozlodoev on October 30, 2017, 04:49:03 PM
Al Horford plays "badly", CelticsBlog: "Al Horford sucks and we are stuck with him for years. Hopefully we could fool some team into eating his contract. Maybe throw in a draft pick?"

Al Horford plays really well, CelticsBlog: "Is now a good time to sell high?"

Big Al cant win lol
I think you've got that nickname wrong. Haven't you heard of "Average Al" already?
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: More Banners on October 30, 2017, 04:51:10 PM
Multitude of factors to consider:

1) Gordon Haywards injury impacts ability to truly compete this year (although I strongly disagree with this notion given the play of our rook)

2) Age

3) Center heavy draft next year with Lakers pick likely conveying.

To get back to the op here...

1) Irrelevant. GH is out this year, but both players have years after that. We weren't really contending this year anyway. We need AH for the two years left after this one, when we may very well be favorites in the east (in no small part because of Al).

2) Irrelevant.  Age ain't nothin' but a number. His mobility is fine. Still plays the 4 as a big after all. No serious injury history to be of concern.

3) Irrelevant. We need more big depth, not less. Keeping Al plus drafting a big is just fine.

So, yeah. Not really a thoughtful idea. Would upset winning culture the youngin's are steeping themselves in, which could negatively impact the franchise in a major way. Not worth a moment's serious consideration.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Roy H. on October 30, 2017, 04:51:58 PM
Horford is extraordinarily important to both our offense and defense.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: GreenShooter on October 30, 2017, 04:56:31 PM
Horford is extraordinarily important to both our offense and defense.
Shouldn't this be in the "Al Horford Appreciation Thread?" lol
I'm with you Roy, Al is indispensable, as this team is currently constructed, imo. One of the most underrated Celtics to wear this uniform, and there's been a bunch. Until he gets a ring, that is.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: G-Bones on October 30, 2017, 05:04:43 PM
I am glad that Al is on our side.  He is a winner.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: ChillyWilly on October 30, 2017, 05:11:31 PM
I swear half the people on this site are stock brokers.

SMH...

Don't confuse day traders with stock brokers.

I think you're confused. Day traders would have moved Big Al same day he signed his contract.  ;)
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: jay on October 30, 2017, 05:25:21 PM
I think we should seriously consider trading Stevens for multiple draft picks.

Let's also trade the Celtics logo for a couple of second rounders!

Maybe we can trade GE while we’re at it.

Trade GE to Pelicans for Zatarain's and a bucket of Popeye's chicken?
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on October 30, 2017, 05:36:40 PM
I d sell my mamma n law

but

nobody would want her. .... 8)
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: crimson_stallion on October 30, 2017, 05:52:01 PM
I am glad that Al is on our side.  He is a winner.

Really?  What has he ever won outside of college?

Please, I'm all ears.  Love it when people go throwing the "winner" label on to guys who have consistently failed to win anything in their entire professional careers.

He's an excellent player, but please let's take it easy with that "winner" label.

Steph Curry is a winner.  LeBron James is a winner.  Michael Jordan and Tim Duncan were winners.  All Horford is not a winner, he's just a really good player. E

very NBA team he's ever been on (aside from last year's Celtics, who were carried by IT) has performed well in the regular season and fallen apart at the seams as soon as they hit the big stage.  Hell even last years team (probably his most successful playoff run ever) was a struggle.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Monkhouse on October 30, 2017, 05:56:38 PM
I am glad that Al is on our side.  He is a winner.

Really?  What has he ever won outside of college?

Please, I'm all ears.  Love it when people go throwing the "winner" label on to guys who have consistently failed to win anything in their entire professional careers.

He's an excellent player, but please let's take it easy with that "winner" label.

Steph Curry is a winner.  LeBron James is a winner.  Michael Jordan and Tim Duncan were winners.  All Horford is not a winner, he's just a really good player.

What makes you say Horford isn't a winner? College doesn't count, but leading your team with J-Smoove as your 2nd best player to the playoffs every year is absolutely no easy feat lol.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: KG Living Legend on October 30, 2017, 05:57:31 PM
I am glad that Al is on our side.  He is a winner.

Really?  What has he ever won outside of college?

Please, I'm all ears.  Love it when people go throwing the "winner" label on to guys who have consistently failed to win anything in their entire professional careers.

He's an excellent player, but please let's take it easy with that "winner" label.

Steph Curry is a winner.  LeBron James is a winner.  Michael Jordan and Tim Duncan were winners.  All Horford is not a winner, he's just a really good player.



 I mean I agree somewhat, but most guys simply don't get back an opportunity to win in the highest level. Durant wasn't a winner before he joined the greatest regular season team ever. Was he not a winner before that?

 See what I'm saying. It's a slippery slope. Horford is easily the Starting center on the right team. If you traded Draymond for Horford he's be a winner.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: crimson_stallion on October 30, 2017, 06:03:14 PM
I am glad that Al is on our side.  He is a winner.

Really?  What has he ever won outside of college?

Please, I'm all ears.  Love it when people go throwing the "winner" label on to guys who have consistently failed to win anything in their entire professional careers.

He's an excellent player, but please let's take it easy with that "winner" label.

Steph Curry is a winner.  LeBron James is a winner.  Michael Jordan and Tim Duncan were winners.  All Horford is not a winner, he's just a really good player.

What makes you say Horford isn't a winner? College doesn't count, but leading your team with J-Smoove as your 2nd best player to the playoffs every year is absolutely no easy feat lol.

Those Hawks teams had legitimate talent.  Jeff Teague could ball, Josh Smith at the time was a borderline All-star.  Joe Johnson was arguably top 5 SG.  Later he got Paul Millsap.  He had Kyle Korver sitting the next stretch of his career.  He had other quality support guys like Demarre Carroll and Kent Bazmore.  He may not have had the level of talent that teams like the Warriors and cavs have the last couple of years, but he's been on solid teams his entire career.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Jvalin on October 30, 2017, 06:06:03 PM
Don't want us to trade Horford and I don't believe we will trade him.

Having said that, I will play along cause trade scenarios are fun! :D

Horford for Boogie + Ajinca or Asik at the deadline
(assuming Boogie says publicly that he plans to leave next summer and the Pels don't wanna lose him for nothing)

Who says no? Could the Pels find a better offer elsewhere (for what may prove to be a few months rental of Boogie)?
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: chilidawg on October 30, 2017, 06:08:48 PM
I am glad that Al is on our side.  He is a winner.

Really?  What has he ever won outside of college?

Please, I'm all ears.  Love it when people go throwing the "winner" label on to guys who have consistently failed to win anything in their entire professional careers.

He's an excellent player, but please let's take it easy with that "winner" label.

Steph Curry is a winner.  LeBron James is a winner.  Michael Jordan and Tim Duncan were winners.  All Horford is not a winner, he's just a really good player. E

very NBA team he's ever been on (aside from last year's Celtics, who were carried by IT) has performed well in the regular season and fallen apart at the seams as soon as they hit the big stage.  Hell even last years team (probably his most successful playoff run ever) was a struggle.

Steph Curry and LeBron weren't winners, until they won.  How did they manage to win if they weren't winners? 
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: crimson_stallion on October 30, 2017, 06:11:33 PM
I am glad that Al is on our side.  He is a winner.

Really?  What has he ever won outside of college?

Please, I'm all ears.  Love it when people go throwing the "winner" label on to guys who have consistently failed to win anything in their entire professional careers.

He's an excellent player, but please let's take it easy with that "winner" label.

Steph Curry is a winner.  LeBron James is a winner.  Michael Jordan and Tim Duncan were winners.  All Horford is not a winner, he's just a really good player.



 I mean I agree somewhat, but most guys simply don't get back an opportunity to win in the highest level. Durant wasn't a winner before he joined the greatest regular season team ever. Was he not a winner before that?

 See what I'm saying. It's a slippery slope. Horford is easily the Starting center on the right team. If you traded Draymond for Horford he's be a winner.

There a reason I didn't list KD in that group ;}

I consider a winner to be a guy like Kobe, LeBron, Duncan and Jordan. Ewing.  Malone and Stockton.   KG, Pierce  Guys who have carried their teams to championships - or at the very least carried their teams to multiple conference finals.

To be fair even KD is borderline, as the thunder were making the Conference finals almost annually when he was in OKC.

Prior to last year in believe horford has made the ECF one time he's entire career.  He made it last year only after the team was bailed out by huge play from guys like AB, IT and Olynyk.  Horford was quietly solid throb the entire playoffs, but without those guys having their monster performances (and a timely rondo injury) Boston wouldn't have made it past the bulls.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: crimson_stallion on October 30, 2017, 06:14:58 PM
I am glad that Al is on our side.  He is a winner.

Really?  What has he ever won outside of college?

Please, I'm all ears.  Love it when people go throwing the "winner" label on to guys who have consistently failed to win anything in their entire professional careers.

He's an excellent player, but please let's take it easy with that "winner" label.

Steph Curry is a winner.  LeBron James is a winner.  Michael Jordan and Tim Duncan were winners.  All Horford is not a winner, he's just a really good player. E

very NBA team he's ever been on (aside from last year's Celtics, who were carried by IT) has performed well in the regular season and fallen apart at the seams as soon as they hit the big stage.  Hell even last years team (probably his most successful playoff run ever) was a struggle.

Steph Curry and LeBron weren't winners, until they won.  How did they manage to win if they weren't winners?

LeBron has made what - 6 straight NBA finals?

Didn't he take the cavs to the NBA finals against the Spurs in his first or second season?

Curry was the core ingredient that turned a young warriors team from non-existent to Dynasty almost overnight with his MVP turnaround.

Dwyane Wade was the best player on a Championship team in like his second season in the league.

I mean sorry if I'm off base here, but I kinda assumed one key prerequisite for being labeled a winner is.. I don't know... Winning?

This is not a diss on horford - I'm not saying he sucks because he hasn't won a lot.  Not everybody has the combination of talent and killer mentality to be that type of player, and that doesn't take away from the fact that he's been an excellent player his entire career...

I just constantly hear people throwing that "winner" label on to guys who have done nothing to earn it (not just Horford, he does geg it a lot) and that annoys me.

Horford isn't a winner.  He simply isn't the type of player who wins you championships - he's the guy who comes in and does the little things to help your main guys win you a championship.  He's Robin to your Batman.  He doesn't take down the enemy - he'll just bring batman his little toolkit so he can deliver the winning punch.  He's one of Santa's little helpers.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: cltc5 on October 30, 2017, 06:15:13 PM
 Can we just enjoy the new team we barely have for awhile, thanks
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Ilikesports17 on October 30, 2017, 06:17:22 PM
I am glad that Al is on our side.  He is a winner.

Really?  What has he ever won outside of college?

Please, I'm all ears.  Love it when people go throwing the "winner" label on to guys who have consistently failed to win anything in their entire professional careers.

He's an excellent player, but please let's take it easy with that "winner" label.

Steph Curry is a winner.  LeBron James is a winner.  Michael Jordan and Tim Duncan were winners.  All Horford is not a winner, he's just a really good player.



 I mean I agree somewhat, but most guys simply don't get back an opportunity to win in the highest level. Durant wasn't a winner before he joined the greatest regular season team ever. Was he not a winner before that?

 See what I'm saying. It's a slippery slope. Horford is easily the Starting center on the right team. If you traded Draymond for Horford he's be a winner.

There a reason I didn't list KD in that group ;}

I consider a winner to be a guy like Kobe, LeBron, Duncan and Jordan. Ewing.  Malone and Stockton.   KG, Pierce  Guys who have carried their teams to championships - or at the very least carried their teams to multiple conference finals.

To be fair even KD is borderline, as the thunder were making the Conference finals almost annually when he was in OKC.

Prior to last year in believe horford has made the ECF one time he's entire career.  He made it last year only after the team was bailed out by huge play from guys like AB, IT and Olynyk.  Horford was quietly solid throb the entire playoffs, but without those guys having their monster performances (and a timely rondo injury) Boston wouldn't have made it past the bulls.
Al Horford has made the playoffs every single year in his career.

He is absolutely a winner.

He isnt a superstar, but hes a winner. There is zero question of that.

But youve hated Big Al from the jump, so Im not surprised that you dont think hes a winner.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: More Banners on October 30, 2017, 06:21:29 PM
I am glad that Al is on our side.  He is a winner.

Really?  What has he ever won outside of college?

Please, I'm all ears.  Love it when people go throwing the "winner" label on to guys who have consistently failed to win anything in their entire professional careers.

He's an excellent player, but please let's take it easy with that "winner" label.

Steph Curry is a winner.  LeBron James is a winner.  Michael Jordan and Tim Duncan were winners.  All Horford is not a winner, he's just a really good player.



 I mean I agree somewhat, but most guys simply don't get back an opportunity to win in the highest level. Durant wasn't a winner before he joined the greatest regular season team ever. Was he not a winner before that?

 See what I'm saying. It's a slippery slope. Horford is easily the Starting center on the right team. If you traded Draymond for Horford he's be a winner.

There a reason I didn't list KD in that group ;}

I consider a winner to be a guy like Kobe, LeBron, Duncan and Jordan. Ewing.  Malone and Stockton.   KG, Pierce  Guys who have carried their teams to championships - or at the very least carried their teams to multiple conference finals.

To be fair even KD is borderline, as the thunder were making the Conference finals almost annually when he was in OKC.

Prior to last year in believe horford has made the ECF one time he's entire career.  He made it last year only after the team was bailed out by huge play from guys like AB, IT and Olynyk.  Horford was quietly solid throb the entire playoffs, but without those guys having their monster performances (and a timely rondo injury) Boston wouldn't have made it past the bulls.
Al Horford has made the playoffs every single year in his career.

He is absolutely a winner.

He isnt a superstar, but hes a winner. There is zero question of that.

But youve hated Big Al from the jump, so Im not surprised that you dont think hes a winner.

I think he personally missed the postseason a couple of times due to weird pec injuries.

But his Hawks played our title team to a near draw in 2008. We might all like to forget that...
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: crimson_stallion on October 30, 2017, 06:27:12 PM
I am glad that Al is on our side.  He is a winner.

Really?  What has he ever won outside of college?

Please, I'm all ears.  Love it when people go throwing the "winner" label on to guys who have consistently failed to win anything in their entire professional careers.

He's an excellent player, but please let's take it easy with that "winner" label.

Steph Curry is a winner.  LeBron James is a winner.  Michael Jordan and Tim Duncan were winners.  All Horford is not a winner, he's just a really good player.



 I mean I agree somewhat, but most guys simply don't get back an opportunity to win in the highest level. Durant wasn't a winner before he joined the greatest regular season team ever. Was he not a winner before that?

 See what I'm saying. It's a slippery slope. Horford is easily the Starting center on the right team. If you traded Draymond for Horford he's be a winner.

There a reason I didn't list KD in that group ;}

I consider a winner to be a guy like Kobe, LeBron, Duncan and Jordan. Ewing.  Malone and Stockton.   KG, Pierce  Guys who have carried their teams to championships - or at the very least carried their teams to multiple conference finals.

To be fair even KD is borderline, as the thunder were making the Conference finals almost annually when he was in OKC.

Prior to last year in believe horford has made the ECF one time he's entire career.  He made it last year only after the team was bailed out by huge play from guys like AB, IT and Olynyk.  Horford was quietly solid throb the entire playoffs, but without those guys having their monster performances (and a timely rondo injury) Boston wouldn't have made it past the bulls.
Al Horford has made the playoffs every single year in his career.

He is absolutely a winner.

He isnt a superstar, but hes a winner. There is zero question of that.

But youve hated Big Al from the jump, so Im not surprised that you dont think hes a winner.

Making the playoffs doesn't make you a winner.

16 teams of 12 guys make the playoffs each year.  There aren't 184 winners in the NBA every season. Making the playoffs only to get knocked off early every single year does not equate to being a winner.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: crimson_stallion on October 30, 2017, 06:33:51 PM
Also I've never hated on Horford, I've actually liked him since his early days and anyways thought he was a nice player.  I'm simply realistic about what he is, which is exactly that - a nice player.  Not a superstar, not a winner, not a game changer - but a nice player.

As I've always said, he's a very nice third or 4th banana. Any team who has Horford as anything more than your 3rd st player has zero hope of winning a title.  Zero.  He's not that guy. 

But as a #3 or #4 guy is hard to imagine many players better for that role because he's unselfish, he's highly versatile, and he has an impressive ability to impact games without needing the ball in his hand.

Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: KG Living Legend on October 30, 2017, 06:39:41 PM
I am glad that Al is on our side.  He is a winner.

Really?  What has he ever won outside of college?

Please, I'm all ears.  Love it when people go throwing the "winner" label on to guys who have consistently failed to win anything in their entire professional careers.

He's an excellent player, but please let's take it easy with that "winner" label.

Steph Curry is a winner.  LeBron James is a winner.  Michael Jordan and Tim Duncan were winners.  All Horford is not a winner, he's just a really good player.



 I mean I agree somewhat, but most guys simply don't get back an opportunity to win in the highest level. Durant wasn't a winner before he joined the greatest regular season team ever. Was he not a winner before that?

 See what I'm saying. It's a slippery slope. Horford is easily the Starting center on the right team. If you traded Draymond for Horford he's be a winner.

There a reason I didn't list KD in that group ;}

I consider a winner to be a guy like Kobe, LeBron, Duncan and Jordan. Ewing.  Malone and Stockton.   KG, Pierce  Guys who have carried their teams to championships - or at the very least carried their teams to multiple conference finals.

To be fair even KD is borderline, as the thunder were making the Conference finals almost annually when he was in OKC.

Prior to last year in believe horford has made the ECF one time he's entire career.  He made it last year only after the team was bailed out by huge play from guys like AB, IT and Olynyk.  Horford was quietly solid throb the entire playoffs, but without those guys having their monster performances (and a timely rondo injury) Boston wouldn't have made it past the bulls.




 Kevin Garnett is the perfect example. That dude was a winner his whole career, if you replace Garnett with Duncan it's KG that wins 4 or 5 rings. While Duncan would have won nothing in Minnesota.

 You see how dumb this argument can be. Circumstance is 75% of being labeld a winner.



 Crimson, I was waiting for a rebuttal of this point.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: nickagneta on October 30, 2017, 06:40:03 PM
Disagree with the premise that the only way you can be a winner is to win a championship. Was Big Baby a winner? Is Tony Allen? Was Gary Payton only a winner because he came off the bench with Miami?

Consistently winning in the regular season and playoffs after winning a national championship in college and leading all those teams, is being a winner in my mind.

I just don't subscribe to the definition of a winner only being a champion.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Billz401 on October 30, 2017, 06:48:43 PM
My first reaction to seeing the thread title was "I swear to god if this is KGLL again.."
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: gouki88 on October 30, 2017, 06:50:51 PM
Why is everyone so desperate to kill our chemistry?
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: mr. dee on October 30, 2017, 06:51:58 PM
What a great way to burn bridges for future free agents. ::)
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Monkhouse on October 30, 2017, 06:53:00 PM
Also I've never hated on Horford, I've actually liked him since his early days and anyways thought he was a nice player.  I'm simply realistic about what he is, which is exactly that - a nice player.  Not a superstar, not a winner, not a game changer - but a nice player.

As I've always said, he's a very nice third or 4th banana. Any team who has Horford as anything more than your 3rd st player has zero hope of winning a title.  Zero.  He's not that guy. 

But as a #3 or #4 guy is hard to imagine many players better for that role because he's unselfish, he's highly versatile, and he has an impressive ability to impact games without needing the ball in his hand.



Well it's a good thing we have Hayward, Tatum, Irving, and Brown who have shown they aren't afraid to take shots....
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: PhoSita on October 30, 2017, 06:54:17 PM

Please, I'm all ears.  Love it when people go throwing the "winner" label on to guys who have consistently failed to win anything in their entire professional careers.



Al Horford, 4 time All-Star, who has 71.3 career Win Shares (652 games) in the regular season and 8 career Win Shares in the playoffs (92 games), has "failed to win anything in [his] entire professional career."

Uh yeah.  OK.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: gouki88 on October 30, 2017, 07:02:29 PM

Please, I'm all ears.  Love it when people go throwing the "winner" label on to guys who have consistently failed to win anything in their entire professional careers.



Al Horford, 4 time All-Star, who has 71.3 career Win Shares (652 games) in the regular season and 8 career Win Shares in the playoffs (92 games), has "failed to win anything in [his] entire professional career."

Uh yeah.  OK.
Did pretty well in college too
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: crimson_stallion on October 30, 2017, 07:08:34 PM
Disagree with the premise that the only way you can be a winner is to win a championship. Was Big Baby a winner? Is Tony Allen? Was Gary Payton only a winner because he came off the bench with Miami?

Consistently winning in the regular season and playoffs after winning a national championship in college and leading all those teams, is being a winner in my mind.

I just don't subscribe to the definition of a winner only being a champion.

And if you read what I've said rather than just assumed, you would see that I never defined being a winner as just somebody who has won championships.

But I do consider it to be somebody who has been known for giving his teams a fighting chance.

Kevin Garnett has been a core piece on at least 3 or 4 ECF teams - likewise Pierce.  Likewise guys like Kobe, LeBron, Wade.  Those guys haven't always won, but there have been multiple occasions where they've put they have taken their teams deep in to the playoffs.

Horford has played on quality teams his entire career and has consistently struggled to get past the first and second rounds...and there's strong room for debate about whether he was even the best player on any of those teams. 
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: crimson_stallion on October 30, 2017, 07:11:10 PM
Funny, people consider Melo a loser, yet he's made more all star teams and has taken a team just as far as horford has, while also having a great deal of success at the college level.

How are they different?

And unlike horford Melo has been the undisputed best player in every team he's ever been on.  But Melo cops flak for not carrying his teams deep while horford gets labeled a winner for it.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Ilikesports17 on October 30, 2017, 07:21:17 PM
Funny, people consider Melo a loser, yet he's made more all star teams and has taken a team just as far as horford has, while also having a great deal of success at the college level.

How are they different?

And unlike horford Melo has been the undisputed best player in every team he's ever been on.  But Melo cops flak for not carrying his teams deep while horford gets labeled a winner for it.
I think those people are idiots too.

I think your definition of winner is dumb.

I think Marcus Smart is a winner, but by your definition he isnt even remotely close. I think your definition of "winner" is a lot closer to what most people would call "superstar".

As for the KG example, Al Horford had made more conference finals by his 31st birthday than KG did despite playing fewer seasons due to coming into the league older and suffering more injuries.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: ChillyWilly on October 30, 2017, 07:36:08 PM
Funny, people consider Melo a loser, yet he's made more all star teams and has taken a team just as far as horford has, while also having a great deal of success at the college level.

How are they different?

And unlike horford Melo has been the undisputed best player in every team he's ever been on.  But Melo cops flak for not carrying his teams deep while horford gets labeled a winner for it.

Carmelo has made the playoffs 10 times and not since 2013. He's lost in the first round 8 of those times.

Big Al has made the playoffs every season he's been in the league and has only lost in the first round 3 times.

Best player Al played with in playoffs was Joe Johnson? Paul Millsap?
Carmelo has taken a few trash teams to the playoffs but he also had Billups, AI and Kidd during his 2 deep playoff runs.

Maybe I'm cherry picking my stats.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: nickagneta on October 30, 2017, 07:41:42 PM
Disagree with the premise that the only way you can be a winner is to win a championship. Was Big Baby a winner? Is Tony Allen? Was Gary Payton only a winner because he came off the bench with Miami?

Consistently winning in the regular season and playoffs after winning a national championship in college and leading all those teams, is being a winner in my mind.

I just don't subscribe to the definition of a winner only being a champion.

And if you read what I've said rather than just assumed, you would see that I never defined being a winner as just somebody who has won championships.

But I do consider it to be somebody who has been known for giving his teams a fighting chance.

Kevin Garnett has been a core piece on at least 3 or 4 ECF teams - likewise Pierce.  Likewise guys like Kobe, LeBron, Wade.  Those guys haven't always won, but there have been multiple occasions where they've put they have taken their teams deep in to the playoffs.

Horford has played on quality teams his entire career and has consistently struggled to get past the first and second rounds...and there's strong room for debate about whether he was even the best player on any of those teams.
As you see I didn't quote you. I was just giving my thoughts on what a winner is. So don't assume I didn't read what you said or was even talking to you.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Phantom255x on October 30, 2017, 07:44:33 PM
Yep... here we are with Cbloggers debating about Al Horford being "a winner or not"  ::) ::)

You know what guys, you're right. WHAT A LOSER! Trade Horford, Brad Stevens, and everyone on this team besides Irving and Baynes (who have won championships)  ::)
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: crimson_stallion on October 30, 2017, 07:52:30 PM
Funny, people consider Melo a loser, yet he's made more all star teams and has taken a team just as far as horford has, while also having a great deal of success at the college level.

How are they different?

And unlike horford Melo has been the undisputed best player in every team he's ever been on.  But Melo cops flak for not carrying his teams deep while horford gets labeled a winner for it.
I think those people are idiots too.

I think your definition of winner is dumb.

I think Marcus Smart is a winner, but by your definition he isnt even remotely close. I think your definition of "winner" is a lot closer to what most people would call "superstar".

As for the KG example, Al Horford had made more conference finals by his 31st birthday than KG did despite playing fewer seasons due to coming into the league older and suffering more injuries.

Al Horford has played in 11 NBA seasons.

Over those NBA seasons he had played alongside 4 different all Stars (Joe Johnson, Paul Millsap, Kyle Korver, Isaiah Thomas) and another 3 borderline All-stars (Josh Smith, Jeff Teague, Mike Bibby).

Yet  despite playing with a not-insubstantial amount of talent around him, here is his career playoff record:

07-08: lost in 1st round
08-09: lost in 2nd round
09-10: lost in 2nd round
10-11: lost in 2nd round
11-12: lost in 2nd round
12-13: lost in 1st round
13-14: lost in 1st round
14-15: lost In ECF
15-16: lost in 2nd round
16-17: lost in ECF

Do you know how many seasons horford had played without an all star teammate? Zero.  That's right, every single season has been in the league he has had at least one all star teammate. Yet his record is as follows :

Zero NBA finals appearances
2 ECF appearances
3 first round exits
5 second round exits

If you want to consider that the history of a 'winner" then sorry, but I have to disagree.

Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: crimson_stallion on October 30, 2017, 07:54:33 PM
Funny, people consider Melo a loser, yet he's made more all star teams and has taken a team just as far as horford has, while also having a great deal of success at the college level.

How are they different?

And unlike horford Melo has been the undisputed best player in every team he's ever been on.  But Melo cops flak for not carrying his teams deep while horford gets labeled a winner for it.

Carmelo has made the playoffs 10 times and not since 2013. He's lost in the first round 8 of those times.

Big Al has made the playoffs every season he's been in the league and has only lost in the first round 3 times.

Best player Al played with in playoffs was Joe Johnson? Paul Millsap?
Carmelo has taken a few trash teams to the playoffs but he also had Billups, AI and Kidd during his 2 deep playoff runs.

Maybe I'm cherry picking my stats.

And Billups, AI and Kidd were all cooked by the time they played with Melo, while Horford played with multiple all stars while they were in their primes...

Put horford on Melos Knicks teams and let's see if he makes the playoff every year then...

Horford has been the secobd or third best player on every team he's played on, yet has struggled his entire career to get past the second round. 

But anyway I want to clarify that just because I'm saying horford isn't a winner, doesn't mean I'm calling him a loser.  I just think he's a solid guy who gets the job done, simply put.

Coming 5th every year doesn't make you a winner, but it doesn't make you a loser either.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: G-Bones on October 30, 2017, 07:59:05 PM
Yep... here we are with Cbloggers debating about Al Horford being "a winner or not"  ::) ::)

You know what guys, you're right. WHAT A LOSER! Trade Horford, Brad Stevens, and everyone on this team besides Irving and Baynes (who have won championships)  ::)

Right on, Phantom.  If some consider Al is not a winner, are they saying he is a loser.  "I'm all ears", please explain to me how one would consider Al a loser.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: gouki88 on October 30, 2017, 08:00:25 PM
Hope the OP is watching this game
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: crimson_stallion on October 30, 2017, 08:12:20 PM
Lol

I love the black and white mentality of people here.

Is like somebody has to be either first or last and there's nothing in between.

As soon as you suggest a guy isn't worthy of being labeled a winner, it's immediately assumed you have some vendetta against the guy out you're a hater.

You realise that it IS possible to think a player is good, respect a player, and appreciate a player without showering them with titles they haven't yet earned.

As one said all along, horford is a very good player, but he's done nothing to earn this "winner" reputation, is all.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: ChillyWilly on October 30, 2017, 08:17:07 PM
Funny, people consider Melo a loser, yet he's made more all star teams and has taken a team just as far as horford has, while also having a great deal of success at the college level.

How are they different?

And unlike horford Melo has been the undisputed best player in every team he's ever been on.  But Melo cops flak for not carrying his teams deep while horford gets labeled a winner for it.

Carmelo has made the playoffs 10 times and not since 2013. He's lost in the first round 8 of those times.

Big Al has made the playoffs every season he's been in the league and has only lost in the first round 3 times.

Best player Al played with in playoffs was Joe Johnson? Paul Millsap?
Carmelo has taken a few trash teams to the playoffs but he also had Billups, AI and Kidd during his 2 deep playoff runs.

Maybe I'm cherry picking my stats.

And Billups, AI and Kidd were all cooked by the time they played with Melo, while Horford played with multiple all stars while they were in their primes...

Put horford on Melos Knicks teams and let's see if he makes the playoff every year then...

Horford has been the secobd or third best player on every team he's played on, yet has struggled his entire career to get past the second round. 

But anyway I want to clarify that just because I'm saying horford isn't a winner, doesn't mean I'm calling him a loser.  I just think he's a solid guy who gets the job done, simply put.

Coming 5th every year doesn't make you a winner, but it doesn't make you a loser either.

I certainly didn't accuse you of calling AL a loser just pointed out some facts.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: gouki88 on October 30, 2017, 08:18:09 PM
Lol

I love the black and white mentality of people here.

Is like somebody has to be either first or last and there's nothing in between.

As soon as you suggest a guy isn't worthy of being labeled a winner, it's immediately assumed you have some vendetta against the guy out you're a hater.

You realise that it IS possible to think a player is good, respect a player, and appreciate a player without showering them with titles they haven't yet earned.

As one said all along, horford is a very good player, but he's done nothing to earn this "winner" reputation, is all.
What are you even talking about???

He literally is a winner. He wins WAY more than he loses, and has made multiple deep playoff runs.

Just because he doesn't fit your obscure definition of what a winner is lol
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: ChillyWilly on October 30, 2017, 08:20:10 PM
Funny, people consider Melo a loser, yet he's made more all star teams and has taken a team just as far as horford has, while also having a great deal of success at the college level.

How are they different?

And unlike horford Melo has been the undisputed best player in every team he's ever been on.  But Melo cops flak for not carrying his teams deep while horford gets labeled a winner for it.

Carmelo has made the playoffs 10 times and not since 2013. He's lost in the first round 8 of those times.

Big Al has made the playoffs every season he's been in the league and has only lost in the first round 3 times.

Best player Al played with in playoffs was Joe Johnson? Paul Millsap?
Carmelo has taken a few trash teams to the playoffs but he also had Billups, AI and Kidd during his 2 deep playoff runs.

Maybe I'm cherry picking my stats.

And Billups, AI and Kidd were all cooked by the time they played with Melo, while Horford played with multiple all stars while they were in their primes...

Put horford on Melos Knicks teams and let's see if he makes the playoff every year then...

Horford has been the secobd or third best player on every team he's played on, yet has struggled his entire career to get past the second round. 

But anyway I want to clarify that just because I'm saying horford isn't a winner, doesn't mean I'm calling him a loser.  I just think he's a solid guy who gets the job done, simply put.

Coming 5th every year doesn't make you a winner, but it doesn't make you a loser either.

Billups was anything but cooked during his 4 season with Melo beating his career avg in almost every statically category for his career.

AI had a one great and one good season during his time with Carmelo.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: crimson_stallion on October 30, 2017, 09:12:04 PM
Lol

I love the black and white mentality of people here.

Is like somebody has to be either first or last and there's nothing in between.

As soon as you suggest a guy isn't worthy of being labeled a winner, it's immediately assumed you have some vendetta against the guy out you're a hater.

You realise that it IS possible to think a player is good, respect a player, and appreciate a player without showering them with titles they haven't yet earned.

As one said all along, horford is a very good player, but he's done nothing to earn this "winner" reputation, is all.
What are you even talking about???

He literally is a winner. He wins WAY more than he loses, and has made multiple deep playoff runs.

Just because he doesn't fit your obscure definition of what a winner is lol

Yeah, sorry for my "obscure" definition that a winner should be somebody who actually wins lol

By your definition Josh Smith is also a winner, since he's also won way more then he's lost and was on almost all of the same Hawks teams that Horford was on, hence according to you he would be pretty much just as much a winner. Right?
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: CelticsFanFromNYC on October 30, 2017, 09:25:29 PM
After trading IT, if we trade Horford while hes hot, this will give agents and players thse perception it ain't safe to sign in Boston.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: gouki88 on October 30, 2017, 09:25:53 PM
Lol

I love the black and white mentality of people here.

Is like somebody has to be either first or last and there's nothing in between.

As soon as you suggest a guy isn't worthy of being labeled a winner, it's immediately assumed you have some vendetta against the guy out you're a hater.

You realise that it IS possible to think a player is good, respect a player, and appreciate a player without showering them with titles they haven't yet earned.

As one said all along, horford is a very good player, but he's done nothing to earn this "winner" reputation, is all.
What are you even talking about???

He literally is a winner. He wins WAY more than he loses, and has made multiple deep playoff runs.

Just because he doesn't fit your obscure definition of what a winner is lol

Yeah, sorry for my "obscure" definition that a winner should be somebody who actually wins lol

By your definition Josh Smith is also a winner, since he's also won way more then he's lost and was on almost all of the same Hawks teams that Horford was on, hence according to you he would be pretty much just as much a winner. Right?
LOL  ::)
I literally have no clue what you're trying to say. Al Horford isn't a winner because he isn't someone "who actually wins", yet he wins a vast majority of the time and leads his teams to deep playoff runs. You can't have it both ways.

And yeah, when Josh Smith was a borderline DPOY candidate multiple years in a row on a winning team, he was a winner. When he started shooting sub 40% from the field and sub 50% from the line he wasn't.

I have no idea what you're trying to say lol
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Ogaju on October 30, 2017, 10:14:26 PM
My first reaction to seeing the thread title was "I swear to god if this is KGLL again.."

You mean its not him? I just assumed. LOL.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Ogaju on October 30, 2017, 10:19:37 PM
All Al does is win win win no matter what. Everybody's hands go UP !!!

Al is a WINNER no matter what anyone says.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: cman88 on October 30, 2017, 10:27:54 PM
No, Al is the perfect big for brads offense. is it any coincidence that we went from first round fodder to the ECF in one year and IT4 had his best season statistically? alot had to with AL
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: green_bballers13 on October 30, 2017, 10:34:04 PM
What's next...polls about trading Kyrie, Tatum and Brown?

I actually would trade any of these guys. Jaylen, a good role player, and a good 1st round pick for a top 10 player? All day.

I would trade any player on this team for a better player. That being said, Al is a good player to keep. He's a super glue 2 way player. Understated and less athletic, but effective and dedicated to defense. He's the kind of player that fans should root for. I think he will be effective through his contract, then we prob move on.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Monkhouse on October 30, 2017, 10:55:07 PM
Technically; yes, selling now would be smart. He's an valued player, regardless of whatever criticisms you can throw on top of him. Listen, he's an consummate teammate. He's going to be the silent, but hard working glue guy on offense, and particularly defense, that's in due part to his high and intelligent basketball IQ.

You're seeing the trend where big men that cannot be two way players, or cannot space the floor, and post moves big are pretty much the dinosaurs of the NBA. Here and there, you'll get excellent players that can score down low, but a common result of that has led to big men having to stretch the floor, and become more perimeter-oriented.

Horford can set excellent ball screens, and use his savvy post moves to free himself up, and create for others; an extremely underrated aspect of his game.

He's content with setting up the offense, and occasionally scoring in bunches, and as you can see a few games ago, absolute bollocks sometimes.

Like Draymond Green, Horford's number doesn't jump out the gate, but he's become impressive in how he has adapted, and fit himself ideally in Steven's offense. There is just no selfishness on this team, and Horford is due in part of some credit for that. The Spurs would kill to have someone like Horford, just don't say anything if we lose Horford, and he just goes off for 25/10/10 on us.  :angel:
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Phantom255x on October 30, 2017, 11:57:16 PM
Just curious, but how have guys like Embiid, Giannis, Porzingis and Aldridge (red hot coming into this game) looked when they played against the C's?

Some have had great games but not as spectacular as in other games.

Big reason for that? AL HORFORD and his defense.

Porzingis has scored like 30+ every game this season EXCEPT vs. Boston.. where he only scored like 12 points. Aldridge today only had 11 points.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: KGs Knee on October 31, 2017, 01:17:57 AM
Disagree with the premise that the only way you can be a winner is to win a championship. Was Big Baby a winner? Is Tony Allen? Was Gary Payton only a winner because he came off the bench with Miami?

Consistently winning in the regular season and playoffs after winning a national championship in college and leading all those teams, is being a winner in my mind.

I just don't subscribe to the definition of a winner only being a champion.

Well said.

TP
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: kozlodoev on October 31, 2017, 02:51:00 AM
Just curious, but how have guys like Embiid, Giannis, Porzingis and Aldridge (red hot coming into this game) looked when they played against the C's?

Some have had great games but not as spectacular as in other games.

Big reason for that? AL HORFORD and his defense.

Porzingis has scored like 30+ every game this season EXCEPT vs. Boston.. where he only scored like 12 points. Aldridge today only had 11 points.
Aldridge looked pretty darn good and for a stretch tho.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: OHCeltic on October 31, 2017, 08:32:11 AM
If we were looking to trade him now is the right time, however he is a key person on our team and there is no reason to trade him.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Big333223 on October 31, 2017, 11:19:52 AM
Back to the OP's idea, I also think the C's should look to sell high, which is why I think they should trade Jayson Tatum. He's young with an attractive contract and he's played well. We can definitely get a future asset for him.

And on the subject of future assets, the Lakers/Kings pick is looking pretty valuable, we should sell high on that as well and get an asset that will convey even farther in the future.

This is NBA basketball, any time you have anything good, it should immediately be traded away.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on October 31, 2017, 11:27:53 AM
Without Gordon Hayward, we will be in the hunt for the #1 seed in the east.

Plus, Gordon Hayward could be back toward the end of the season.

This is a Sixers' move, a losing move by a losing organization to proliferate a losing environment.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Darío SpanishFan on October 31, 2017, 11:37:48 AM
Back to the OP's idea, I also think the C's should look to sell high, which is why I think they should trade Jayson Tatum. He's young with an attractive contract and he's played well. We can definitely get a future asset for him.

And on the subject of future assets, the Lakers/Kings pick is looking pretty valuable, we should sell high on that as well and get an asset that will convey even farther in the future.

This is NBA basketball, any time you have anything good, it should immediately be traded away.

I thought nothing could be worse than the OP. I was mistaken.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: RockinRyA on October 31, 2017, 11:39:36 AM
Back to the OP's idea, I also think the C's should look to sell high, which is why I think they should trade Jayson Tatum. He's young with an attractive contract and he's played well. We can definitely get a future asset for him.

And on the subject of future assets, the Lakers/Kings pick is looking pretty valuable, we should sell high on that as well and get an asset that will convey even farther in the future.

This is NBA basketball, any time you have anything good, it should immediately be traded away.

I thought nothing could be worse than the OP. I was mistaken.

Its called sarcasm.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Granath on October 31, 2017, 12:13:28 PM
Back to the OP's idea, I also think the C's should look to sell high, which is why I think they should trade Jayson Tatum. He's young with an attractive contract and he's played well. We can definitely get a future asset for him.

And on the subject of future assets, the Lakers/Kings pick is looking pretty valuable, we should sell high on that as well and get an asset that will convey even farther in the future.

This is NBA basketball, any time you have anything good, it should immediately be traded away.

I thought nothing could be worse than the OP. I was mistaken.

Its called sarcasm.

True dat.

I'm telling you guys, I think it might be a good idea to trade away Isaiah Thomas. I know it sounds radical but I don't think he's performing at a very high level right now.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: mainevent on October 31, 2017, 01:07:03 PM
Not sure why there is an assumption that I would vote yes on this hypothetical question.

Face it, it was a stupid question lol.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Phantom255x on October 31, 2017, 10:51:15 PM
Back to the OP's idea, I also think the C's should look to sell high, which is why I think they should trade Jayson Tatum. He's young with an attractive contract and he's played well. We can definitely get a future asset for him.

And on the subject of future assets, the Lakers/Kings pick is looking pretty valuable, we should sell high on that as well and get an asset that will convey even farther in the future.

This is NBA basketball, any time you have anything good, it should immediately be traded away.

I thought nothing could be worse than the OP. I was mistaken.

The forums need to have a sarcasm font...  :P

Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: obnoxiousmime on November 01, 2017, 03:07:19 AM
I realize you're joking, but obviously there is a big difference between Tatum and Horford. If you just go by age and contract and pretend we're in a video game instead of the real world, it's not a crazy thought to think maybe selling high a 31 year-old making the max would objectively be a good strategy. The problem is, in reality trading Horford would be a huge blow mentally to the team, send the wrong message to players around the league about our franchise, and set us back at a time when the East looks wide open.

I happen to think Horford will age well and continue to play well the last two years of his deal, making dealing him not a necessity. However, if his contract is needed for a deal involving someone on the level of an Anthony Davis, then maybe I think all Celtics fans would have to think long and hard.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: trickybilly on November 01, 2017, 05:26:50 AM
I remember seeing that David Cronenberg movie about people who get turned on by car accidents.

This thread is funnier, more abstract/ridiculous and more strange. TPs all round.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Phantom255x on November 04, 2017, 12:06:02 AM
LOL
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: ChillyWilly on November 04, 2017, 12:09:43 AM
LOL

x2
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: SparzWizard on November 04, 2017, 12:11:44 AM
ANTHONY DAVIS!!
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Ogaju on November 04, 2017, 12:12:54 AM
 8)
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Phantom255x on November 04, 2017, 12:14:07 AM
(https://i.imgflip.com/1ys4uh.jpg)
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: azzenfrost on November 04, 2017, 12:44:09 AM
No. He has a lot more to offer than the numbers anyone runs.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: CelticD on November 04, 2017, 12:47:12 AM
It would have to be the right player of course but I'd be comfortable with doing so. As well as he's been playing, he's not untouchable for me.

I don't buy into the idea that the C's would look like an evil franchise for trading away their first big free agent acquisition either. People will get over it. Like does anybody remember how Dwight Howard signed a 3-year deal with his hometown ATL Hawks two offseasons ago and then was literally traded the very next offseason?

Nah me niether.

Edit: I voted maybe so. Come at me.  8) 8)

For the record...I still feel this way  8)
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Ogaju on November 04, 2017, 01:03:50 AM
It would have to be the right player of course but I'd be comfortable with doing so. As well as he's been playing, he's not untouchable for me.

I don't buy into the idea that the C's would look like an evil franchise for trading away their first big free agent acquisition either. People will get over it. Like does anybody remember how Dwight Howard signed a 3-year deal with his hometown ATL Hawks two offseasons ago and then was literally traded the very next offseason?

Nah me niether.

Edit: I voted maybe so. Come at me.  8) 8)

For the record...I still feel this way  8)

your vote and the other three that voted one with you and two similar to you actually serve a purpose. I wonder if you can 'figure' it out. #middlefinger
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: jdz101 on November 04, 2017, 01:09:13 AM
Can we burn this thread in a chemical fire considering the poll results?
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: RockinRyA on November 04, 2017, 01:18:01 AM
Is this a Buy-and-Sell business?
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: timpiker on November 05, 2017, 08:43:01 AM
Trade Al?  So the C's to go into the lottery?  Who posted this craziness?  Why not start a poll to ask if Danny or Brad should be fired.  Geez.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Phantom255x on November 08, 2017, 10:09:26 PM
Celtics look REALLY SLUGGISH W/o Horford tonight.

Idk... maybe we should still just sell high on him though...  ::)
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: RockinRyA on November 08, 2017, 10:27:15 PM
Celtics look REALLY SLUGGISH W/o Horford tonight.

Idk... maybe we should still just sell high on him though...  ::)

His value is low now though due to the injury!

We wait till he gets that triple double then trade him.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: G-Bones on May 16, 2018, 07:53:21 AM
 Remembering this: 
I am glad that Al is on our side.  He is a winner.

Really?  What has he ever won outside of college?

Please, I'm all ears.  Love it when people go throwing the "winner" label on to guys who have consistently failed to win anything in their entire professional careers.

He's an excellent player, but please let's take it easy with that "winner" label.

Steph Curry is a winner.  LeBron James is a winner.  Michael Jordan and Tim Duncan were winners.  All Horford is not a winner, he's just a really good player. E

very NBA team he's ever been on (aside from last year's Celtics, who were carried by IT) has performed well in the regular season and fallen apart at the seams as soon as they hit the big stage.  Hell even last years team (probably his most successful playoff run ever) was a struggle.
Title: Re: Al Horford: Is now a good time to sell high?
Post by: Celtics4ever on May 16, 2018, 07:54:42 AM
Quote
Trade Al?  So the C's to go into the lottery?  Who posted this craziness?  Why not start a poll to ask if Danny or Brad should be fired.  Geez.

Old post someone bumped back to life.  Sometimes things should stay buried though...