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Other Discussions => Off Topic => Current Events / Political Discussion => Topic started by: kozlodoev on October 30, 2017, 10:31:21 AM

Title: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
Post by: kozlodoev on October 30, 2017, 10:31:21 AM
So in a developing situation, Manafort seems to be the first casualty of the Russia investigation. Tax fraud though? Really?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41804740
Title: Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
Post by: slamtheking on October 30, 2017, 10:41:49 AM
a bit of a let down that there's no explicit connection to the campaign at this point but I guess it's a starting point. 

any comment/news if there's more to come or they're just hoping to use this to roll over Manafort to get higher people in the campaign?
Title: Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
Post by: arctic 3.0 on October 30, 2017, 10:43:14 AM
a bit of a let down that there's no explicit connection to the campaign at this point but I guess it's a starting point. 

any comment/news if there's more to come or they're just hoping to use this to roll over Manafort to get higher people in the campaign?

Tip of iceberg.
Title: Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
Post by: kozlodoev on October 30, 2017, 10:44:01 AM
All indictments that were unsealed today can be read here. I've read five pages of the Gates/Manafort document, and it looks horrible.

https://www.justice.gov/sco
Title: Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
Post by: slamtheking on October 30, 2017, 10:50:09 AM
All indictments that were unsealed today can be read here. I've read five pages of the Gates/Manafort document, and it looks horrible.

https://www.justice.gov/sco
horrible how?

I read it but there's strong cases and not-so-strong cases.  I would normally figure they'd have to have strong case after all this but in this situation they're trying to get him to rollover on other people in the campaign so I'm wondering how solid the case is (how likely is the threat of possible conviction) and how much time he's looking at if convicted (leverage for rollover).

The charges look serious but nothing that explicitly links to Trump's campaign or Russian collusion. 

truly hope there's more to come and this was just the low hanging fruit in the investigation
Title: Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
Post by: kozlodoev on October 30, 2017, 10:52:49 AM
All indictments that were unsealed today can be read here. I've read five pages of the Gates/Manafort document, and it looks horrible.

https://www.justice.gov/sco
horrible how?

I read it but there's strong cases and not-so-strong cases.  I would normally figure they'd have to have strong case after all this but in this situation they're trying to get him to rollover on other people in the campaign so I'm wondering how solid the case is (how likely is the threat of possible conviction) and how much time he's looking at if convicted (leverage for rollover).

The charges look serious but nothing that explicitly links to Trump's campaign or Russian collusion. 

truly hope there's more to come and this was just the low hanging fruit in the investigation
The charges are horrible for Manafort, not for Trump. They essentially spell out the fact that he was paid a pile of money to be Putin's mouthpiece. Conviction or not, this should be his political death sentence.
Title: Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
Post by: slamtheking on October 30, 2017, 10:54:41 AM
All indictments that were unsealed today can be read here. I've read five pages of the Gates/Manafort document, and it looks horrible.

https://www.justice.gov/sco
horrible how?

I read it but there's strong cases and not-so-strong cases.  I would normally figure they'd have to have strong case after all this but in this situation they're trying to get him to rollover on other people in the campaign so I'm wondering how solid the case is (how likely is the threat of possible conviction) and how much time he's looking at if convicted (leverage for rollover).

The charges look serious but nothing that explicitly links to Trump's campaign or Russian collusion. 

truly hope there's more to come and this was just the low hanging fruit in the investigation
The charges are horrible for Manafort, not for Trump. They essentially spell out the fact that he was paid a pile of money to be Putin's mouthpiece. Conviction or not, this should be his political death sentence.
thanks for the clarification -- TP for taking the time.
Title: Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
Post by: fairweatherfan on October 30, 2017, 10:57:52 AM
Manafort's the headline, but the more meaningful story for the big picture may be that George Papadopoulus, a foreign policy advisor to Trump's campaign, pleaded guilty to charges related to, at minimum, attempting to collude with the Russian gov't to get emails from Hillary Clinton.

Plea documents here: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4163402/Papadopoulos-Statement-Offense.pdf (https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4163402/Papadopoulos-Statement-Offense.pdf)

This plea and the statements in the doc that Papadopoulus has been giving info to the feds strongly suggests he's flipped and is aiding investigations against others to save himself.

Manafort himself is of course dirty as hell, particularly with Russia, and it was widely known - there were stories about this from the day he joined the campaign. Now the question is if he flips on anyone else too.
Title: Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
Post by: kozlodoev on October 30, 2017, 11:11:28 AM
Manafort's the headline, but the more meaningful story for the big picture may be that George Papadopoulus, a foreign policy advisor to Trump's campaign, pleaded guilty to charges related to, at minimum, attempting to collude with the Russian gov't to get emails from Hillary Clinton.

Plea documents here: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4163402/Papadopoulos-Statement-Offense.pdf (https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4163402/Papadopoulos-Statement-Offense.pdf)

This plea and the statements in the doc that Papadopoulus has been giving info to the feds strongly suggests he's flipped and is aiding investigations against others to save himself.

Manafort himself is of course dirty as hell, particularly with Russia, and it was widely known - there were stories about this from the day he joined the campaign. Now the question is if he flips on anyone else too.
So this plea said Papadopolous "repeatedly sought to arrange ... a meeting between the Campaign and Russian government officials". Isn't that against US law?
Title: Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
Post by: danglertx on October 30, 2017, 11:17:03 AM
All indictments that were unsealed today can be read here. I've read five pages of the Gates/Manafort document, and it looks horrible.

https://www.justice.gov/sco
horrible how?

I read it but there's strong cases and not-so-strong cases.  I would normally figure they'd have to have strong case after all this but in this situation they're trying to get him to rollover on other people in the campaign so I'm wondering how solid the case is (how likely is the threat of possible conviction) and how much time he's looking at if convicted (leverage for rollover).

The charges look serious but nothing that explicitly links to Trump's campaign or Russian collusion. 

truly hope there's more to come and this was just the low hanging fruit in the investigation
The charges are horrible for Manafort, not for Trump. They essentially spell out the fact that he was paid a pile of money to be Putin's mouthpiece. Conviction or not, this should be his political death sentence.

I read the same thing and I'm wondering about the Putin mouthpiece thing.  Didn't all this money come from the Ukraine?  Doesn't the Ukraine hate Russia especially after Russia just stole Crimea from them?  How does taking money from Ukraine make him Putin's mouthpiece?

Is there something I am missing in that?  Basically they are nailing Manafort for tax evasion.  Not sure why that hurts Trump.
Title: Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
Post by: kozlodoev on October 30, 2017, 11:19:18 AM
All indictments that were unsealed today can be read here. I've read five pages of the Gates/Manafort document, and it looks horrible.

https://www.justice.gov/sco
horrible how?

I read it but there's strong cases and not-so-strong cases.  I would normally figure they'd have to have strong case after all this but in this situation they're trying to get him to rollover on other people in the campaign so I'm wondering how solid the case is (how likely is the threat of possible conviction) and how much time he's looking at if convicted (leverage for rollover).

The charges look serious but nothing that explicitly links to Trump's campaign or Russian collusion. 

truly hope there's more to come and this was just the low hanging fruit in the investigation
The charges are horrible for Manafort, not for Trump. They essentially spell out the fact that he was paid a pile of money to be Putin's mouthpiece. Conviction or not, this should be his political death sentence.

I read the same thing and I'm wondering about the Putin mouthpiece thing.  Didn't all this money come from the Ukraine?  Doesn't the Ukraine hate Russia especially after Russia just stole Crimea from them?  How does taking money from Ukraine make him Putin's mouthpiece?

Is there something I am missing in that?  Basically they are nailing Manafort for tax evasion.  Not sure why that hurts Trump.
Manafort received money from the Party of the Regions, which is essentially Putin's party. He also worked for former President Yanukovich, who was largely a Russian stooge. That's basically cash for representing Russian interests in Ukraine -- that much is also spelled out in the indictment.
Title: Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
Post by: fairweatherfan on October 30, 2017, 11:19:43 AM
Manafort's the headline, but the more meaningful story for the big picture may be that George Papadopoulus, a foreign policy advisor to Trump's campaign, pleaded guilty to charges related to, at minimum, attempting to collude with the Russian gov't to get emails from Hillary Clinton.

Plea documents here: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4163402/Papadopoulos-Statement-Offense.pdf (https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4163402/Papadopoulos-Statement-Offense.pdf)

This plea and the statements in the doc that Papadopoulus has been giving info to the feds strongly suggests he's flipped and is aiding investigations against others to save himself.

Manafort himself is of course dirty as hell, particularly with Russia, and it was widely known - there were stories about this from the day he joined the campaign. Now the question is if he flips on anyone else too.
So this plea said Papadopolous "repeatedly sought to arrange ... a meeting between the Campaign and Russian government officials". Isn't that against US law?

Don't know enough about the relevant law but I believe definitely not categorically illegal for a campaign to meet with foreign officials. It'd be doing so for election assistance, especially from stolen information, that would be the major issue. 

And of course, lying to the FBI about it, then the next day deleting your Facebook you were using to message foreign agents about collusion.  ;D
Title: Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
Post by: danglertx on October 30, 2017, 11:31:11 AM
Manafort's the headline, but the more meaningful story for the big picture may be that George Papadopoulus, a foreign policy advisor to Trump's campaign, pleaded guilty to charges related to, at minimum, attempting to collude with the Russian gov't to get emails from Hillary Clinton.

Plea documents here: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4163402/Papadopoulos-Statement-Offense.pdf (https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4163402/Papadopoulos-Statement-Offense.pdf)

This plea and the statements in the doc that Papadopoulus has been giving info to the feds strongly suggests he's flipped and is aiding investigations against others to save himself.

Manafort himself is of course dirty as hell, particularly with Russia, and it was widely known - there were stories about this from the day he joined the campaign. Now the question is if he flips on anyone else too.
So this plea said Papadopolous "repeatedly sought to arrange ... a meeting between the Campaign and Russian government officials". Isn't that against US law?

There is a law that US citizen's can't meet with government officials from other countries? Yikes, bunch of people going to jail.  And this wasn't even someone for the Russian government, it was a Professor. 

I like that you throw in collude to get the emails back instead of, asking the Russians for US property to be returned to the American people.  There was no colluding, they asked for the emails if Russia took them.   Colluding implies a working together.  Whatever Russia had, if they had them, they already stole.  If the FBI can't get those emails off Hillary's bleach bit hard drive, I'm pretty certain the Russians can't.
Title: Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
Post by: fairweatherfan on October 30, 2017, 11:42:47 AM
Manafort's the headline, but the more meaningful story for the big picture may be that George Papadopoulus, a foreign policy advisor to Trump's campaign, pleaded guilty to charges related to, at minimum, attempting to collude with the Russian gov't to get emails from Hillary Clinton.

Plea documents here: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4163402/Papadopoulos-Statement-Offense.pdf (https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4163402/Papadopoulos-Statement-Offense.pdf)

This plea and the statements in the doc that Papadopoulus has been giving info to the feds strongly suggests he's flipped and is aiding investigations against others to save himself.

Manafort himself is of course dirty as hell, particularly with Russia, and it was widely known - there were stories about this from the day he joined the campaign. Now the question is if he flips on anyone else too.
So this plea said Papadopolous "repeatedly sought to arrange ... a meeting between the Campaign and Russian government officials". Isn't that against US law?

There is a law that US citizen's can't meet with government officials from other countries? Yikes, bunch of people going to jail.  And this wasn't even someone for the Russian government, it was a Professor. 

I like that you throw in collude to get the emails back instead of, asking the Russians for US property to be returned to the American people. There was no colluding, they asked for the emails if Russia took them.   Colluding implies a working together.  Whatever Russia had, if they had them, they already stole.  If the FBI can't get those emails off Hillary's bleach bit hard drive, I'm pretty certain the Russians can't.

Partisanship is a helluva drug. Holy cow, the mental contortions it must take to believe this. Presumably he just lied to the FBI about it out of modesty?

The emails they're almost certainly talking about, BTW, are the ones from Podesta's account which were stolen just a couple of weeks before Papadopoulus and the campaign was notified. The ones Wikileaks eventually released hours after the Access Hollywood video broke and have repeatedly claimed didn't come from Russia.
Title: Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
Post by: kozlodoev on October 30, 2017, 11:55:42 AM
Manafort's the headline, but the more meaningful story for the big picture may be that George Papadopoulus, a foreign policy advisor to Trump's campaign, pleaded guilty to charges related to, at minimum, attempting to collude with the Russian gov't to get emails from Hillary Clinton.

Plea documents here: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4163402/Papadopoulos-Statement-Offense.pdf (https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4163402/Papadopoulos-Statement-Offense.pdf)

This plea and the statements in the doc that Papadopoulus has been giving info to the feds strongly suggests he's flipped and is aiding investigations against others to save himself.

Manafort himself is of course dirty as hell, particularly with Russia, and it was widely known - there were stories about this from the day he joined the campaign. Now the question is if he flips on anyone else too.
So this plea said Papadopolous "repeatedly sought to arrange ... a meeting between the Campaign and Russian government officials". Isn't that against US law?

There is a law that US citizen's can't meet with government officials from other countries? Yikes, bunch of people going to jail.  And this wasn't even someone for the Russian government, it was a Professor.
You'd be shocked about the things you can find in the US code if you'd only read. Here's one bit for your perusal:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/953

The Trump campaign is threading a thin line. They are probably lucky that they had someone on their staff with two brain cells to rub together who figured out that it's best to avoid obvious smoking guns.
Title: Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
Post by: indeedproceed on October 30, 2017, 01:54:36 PM
Manafort's the headline, but the more meaningful story for the big picture may be that George Papadopoulus, a foreign policy advisor to Trump's campaign, pleaded guilty to charges related to, at minimum, attempting to collude with the Russian gov't to get emails from Hillary Clinton.

Plea documents here: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4163402/Papadopoulos-Statement-Offense.pdf (https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4163402/Papadopoulos-Statement-Offense.pdf)

This plea and the statements in the doc that Papadopoulus has been giving info to the feds strongly suggests he's flipped and is aiding investigations against others to save himself.

Manafort himself is of course dirty as hell, particularly with Russia, and it was widely known - there were stories about this from the day he joined the campaign. Now the question is if he flips on anyone else too.
So this plea said Papadopolous "repeatedly sought to arrange ... a meeting between the Campaign and Russian government officials". Isn't that against US law?

There is a law that US citizen's can't meet with government officials from other countries? Yikes, bunch of people going to jail.  And this wasn't even someone for the Russian government, it was a Professor. 

I like that you throw in collude to get the emails back instead of, asking the Russians for US property to be returned to the American people. There was no colluding, they asked for the emails if Russia took them.   Colluding implies a working together.  Whatever Russia had, if they had them, they already stole.  If the FBI can't get those emails off Hillary's bleach bit hard drive, I'm pretty certain the Russians can't.

Partisanship is a helluva drug. Holy cow, the mental contortions it must take to believe this. Presumably he just lied to the FBI about it out of modesty?

The emails they're almost certainly talking about, BTW, are the ones from Podesta's account which were stolen just a couple of weeks before Papadopoulus and the campaign was notified. The ones Wikileaks eventually released hours after the Access Hollywood video broke and have repeatedly claimed didn't come from Russia.

Lollerskates on this exchange. Returned to the American people? Yikes.

My favorite part of this has to be Trump & Co.'s 'Clintons Did It!' Kansas City Shuffle strategy. At first, it is wildly infuriating, but after a while just the sheer audacity is stunning. Angry Chainsmoker Who Quit Yesterday Sarah Huckabee Sanders has my favorite rebuttal:

Quote
"I think we are seeing now that if there was any collusion with Russia, it was between the DNC and the Clintons, and certainly not our campaign,” Sanders told reporters.

(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/038/949/5f4.gif)
Title: Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
Post by: fairweatherfan on October 30, 2017, 05:12:44 PM
Manafort's the headline, but the more meaningful story for the big picture may be that George Papadopoulus, a foreign policy advisor to Trump's campaign, pleaded guilty to charges related to, at minimum, attempting to collude with the Russian gov't to get emails from Hillary Clinton.

Plea documents here: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4163402/Papadopoulos-Statement-Offense.pdf (https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4163402/Papadopoulos-Statement-Offense.pdf)

This plea and the statements in the doc that Papadopoulus has been giving info to the feds strongly suggests he's flipped and is aiding investigations against others to save himself.

Manafort himself is of course dirty as hell, particularly with Russia, and it was widely known - there were stories about this from the day he joined the campaign. Now the question is if he flips on anyone else too.
So this plea said Papadopolous "repeatedly sought to arrange ... a meeting between the Campaign and Russian government officials". Isn't that against US law?

There is a law that US citizen's can't meet with government officials from other countries? Yikes, bunch of people going to jail.  And this wasn't even someone for the Russian government, it was a Professor. 

I like that you throw in collude to get the emails back instead of, asking the Russians for US property to be returned to the American people. There was no colluding, they asked for the emails if Russia took them.   Colluding implies a working together.  Whatever Russia had, if they had them, they already stole.  If the FBI can't get those emails off Hillary's bleach bit hard drive, I'm pretty certain the Russians can't.

Partisanship is a helluva drug. Holy cow, the mental contortions it must take to believe this. Presumably he just lied to the FBI about it out of modesty?

The emails they're almost certainly talking about, BTW, are the ones from Podesta's account which were stolen just a couple of weeks before Papadopoulus and the campaign was notified. The ones Wikileaks eventually released hours after the Access Hollywood video broke and have repeatedly claimed didn't come from Russia.

Lollerskates on this exchange. Returned to the American people? Yikes.

My favorite part of this has to be Trump & Co.'s 'Clintons Did It!' Kansas City Shuffle strategy. At first, it is wildly infuriating, but after a while just the sheer audacity is stunning. Angry Chainsmoker Who Quit Yesterday Sarah Huckabee Sanders has my favorite rebuttal:

Quote
"I think we are seeing now that if there was any collusion with Russia, it was between the DNC and the Clintons, and certainly not our campaign,” Sanders told reporters.


The craziest thing isn't that Trump supporters were flipped almost instantly from mocking the very idea that Russia interfered in our election at all to believing they totally did, just on Hillary's behalf. The malleability and gullibility of that group's been clear for a very long time, as has the constant whatabouting and projection their leaders use to dodge accountability.

The craziest thing is that rabid supporters of "America First" now join their opponents in believing a foreign country attacked our elections, and against the guy they like to boot, but don't seem to be the least bit angry at them for it, simply because they haven't been told to be.
Title: Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
Post by: nickagneta on October 30, 2017, 06:53:38 PM
Judging by the fact that the senior aides turned down Papdopolous' request to meet with and visit the Russians and even noted it was illegal to do as a private citizen, the Trump camp has to be happy with the news today. Manafort and Gates both were indicted for pre-Trump activities.

It still doesn't look good that Trump surrounded himself with such individuals. The ongoing investigation into many other Trump aides and associates involved in Russia is still unexplained but we will see if anything comes of it.

Wonder if Trump would pardon Gates and Manafort if they are found guilty while he is President?
Title: Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
Post by: jackpercussion on October 30, 2017, 07:03:11 PM
Tick Tock Tick Tock.

The only people going to jail are the Clinton's and Obama's.  The Clinton's were broke when they left the White House.  Now they are worth hundreds of millions????   Selling 20% of our Uranium to the Russians for personal gain is treason.  All parties should be sentenced to death when convicted!!!
Title: Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
Post by: Emmette Bryant on October 30, 2017, 07:13:34 PM
Tick Tock Tick Tock.

The only people going to jail are the Clinton's and Obama's.  The Clinton's were broke when they left the White House.  Now they are worth hundreds of millions????   Selling 20% of our Uranium to the Russians for personal gain is treason.  All parties should be sentenced to death when convicted!!!

https://thinkprogress.org/trump-distract-robert-mueller-explained-807999089c9e/
Title: Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
Post by: kozlodoev on October 30, 2017, 08:04:11 PM
Tick Tock Tick Tock.

The only people going to jail are the Clinton's and Obama's.  The Clinton's were broke when they left the White House.  Now they are worth hundreds of millions????   Selling 20% of our Uranium to the Russians for personal gain is treason.  All parties should be sentenced to death when convicted!!!
Why the only? Are there no other political opponents you're interested in jailing, third-world-country style? I'm disappointed.
Title: Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
Post by: fairweatherfan on October 30, 2017, 09:21:26 PM
Tick Tock Tick Tock.

The only people going to jail are the Clinton's and Obama's.  The Clinton's were broke when they left the White House.  Now they are worth hundreds of millions????   Selling 20% of our Uranium to the Russians for personal gain is treason.  All parties should be sentenced to death when convicted!!!

It's too late, they were already executed for Benghazi and, um, political groups having to fill out an extra form to be classified as non-political charities for tax purposes.


Judging by the fact that the senior aides turned down Papdopolous' request to meet with and visit the Russians and even noted it was illegal to do as a private citizen, the Trump camp has to be happy with the news today. Manafort and Gates both were indicted for pre-Trump activities.

I don't think they're the least bit happy; the investigation's ongoing, Papadopoulus is described as a "proactive cooperator" which apparently means he's very likely been wearing a wire. The plea deal is also very clear that it doesn't contain everything Mueller's team knows, just enough to establish he's guilty of what he's pleading to.

Also remember Mueller doesn't have to find collusion to take down Trump. Manafort was caught money laundering (among other things) and Trump's been busted multiple times for it, mainly through his casino. If Trump's wrapped up in dirty foreign money (completely unsurprising), charges would be appropriate, and the lack of disclosure would merit removal from office, though I'm not holding my breath on that actually happening.
Title: Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
Post by: slamtheking on October 30, 2017, 10:18:37 PM
Tick Tock Tick Tock.

The only people going to jail are the Clinton's and Obama's.  The Clinton's were broke when they left the White House.  Now they are worth hundreds of millions????   Selling 20% of our Uranium to the Russians for personal gain is treason.  All parties should be sentenced to death when convicted!!!

It's too late, they were already executed for Benghazi and, um, political groups having to fill out an extra form to be classified as non-political charities for tax purposes.


Judging by the fact that the senior aides turned down Papdopolous' request to meet with and visit the Russians and even noted it was illegal to do as a private citizen, the Trump camp has to be happy with the news today. Manafort and Gates both were indicted for pre-Trump activities.

I don't think they're the least bit happy; the investigation's ongoing, Papadopoulus is described as a "proactive cooperator" which apparently means he's very likely been wearing a wire. The plea deal is also very clear that it doesn't contain everything Mueller's team knows, just enough to establish he's guilty of what he's pleading to.

Also remember Mueller doesn't have to find collusion to take down Trump. Manafort was caught money laundering (among other things) and Trump's been busted multiple times for it, mainly through his casino. If Trump's wrapped up in dirty foreign money (completely unsurprising), charges would be appropriate, and the lack of disclosure would merit removal from office, though I'm not holding my breath on that actually happening.
oooh, now that would be an interesting twist to get him.  it's like taking down Capone for tax evasion
Title: Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
Post by: nickagneta on October 30, 2017, 10:26:56 PM
Tick Tock Tick Tock.

The only people going to jail are the Clinton's and Obama's.  The Clinton's were broke when they left the White House.  Now they are worth hundreds of millions????   Selling 20% of our Uranium to the Russians for personal gain is treason.  All parties should be sentenced to death when convicted!!!

It's too late, they were already executed for Benghazi and, um, political groups having to fill out an extra form to be classified as non-political charities for tax purposes.


Judging by the fact that the senior aides turned down Papdopolous' request to meet with and visit the Russians and even noted it was illegal to do as a private citizen, the Trump camp has to be happy with the news today. Manafort and Gates both were indicted for pre-Trump activities.

I don't think they're the least bit happy; the investigation's ongoing, Papadopoulus is described as a "proactive cooperator" which apparently means he's very likely been wearing a wire. The plea deal is also very clear that it doesn't contain everything Mueller's team knows, just enough to establish he's guilty of what he's pleading to.

Also remember Mueller doesn't have to find collusion to take down Trump. Manafort was caught money laundering (among other things) and Trump's been busted multiple times for it, mainly through his casino. If Trump's wrapped up in dirty foreign money (completely unsurprising), charges would be appropriate, and the lack of disclosure would merit removal from office, though I'm not holding my breath on that actually happening.
Yeah, happy probably wasn't the right word but content with what came out to spin it to his base that he is not complicit with anything...so far. I just wonder if Mueller has enough to look into Trump's financials and catch him in a tax fraud case. My guess is no, but this investigation and info coming out about it is still going to be ongoing for a while.
Title: Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
Post by: heyvik on November 01, 2017, 04:31:10 PM
FOX NEWS - Judge Napolitano on Why He Believes Trump Campaign Adviser 'Wore a Wire'

http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/11/01/judge-napolitano-george-papadopolous-probably-wore-wire-after-arrest-mueller-russia-probe


You know this is serious when Fox News - Shep Smith - is reporting this..

Napolitano also said it's telling that Papadopolous was not charged with obstruction of justice, perhaps because he has already provided "significant assistance" to investigators.

I still don't think that Trump himself will be indited, but those around him will be....including Jared.
Title: Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
Post by: kozlodoev on November 01, 2017, 04:42:24 PM
Will dump this here for lack of a better place (because we apparently don't have a DT thread yet again). Clapper on the Russian interference:

Quote
“Why wouldn’t he?” Clapper responded. “I mean, the Russians succeeded, I believe, beyond their wildest expectations. Their first objective in the election was to sow discontent, discord and disruption in our political life, and they have succeeded to a fare-thee-well. They have accelerated, amplified the polarization and the divisiveness in this country, and they’ve undermined our democratic system. They wanted to create doubt in the minds of the public about our government and about our system, and they succeeded to a fare-thee-well.”

“They’ve been emboldened,” he added, “and they will continue to do this.”

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/10/30/james-clapper-russia-global-politico-trump-215761

Title: Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
Post by: Cman on December 04, 2017, 09:20:32 PM
Apparently while under house arrest Manafort tried to ghost write an op ed about himself with someone from Russia.

This guy is just plain dumb.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/04/manafort-russia-prosecutors-oped-278786
Title: Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
Post by: nickagneta on December 04, 2017, 09:58:32 PM
Wow, Manafort may have just cost himself $11 million in property. Wonder if the bail agreement falls through and if he has to forfeit the properties if he then has to surrender himself for jailtime until the trial.
Title: Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
Post by: blink on December 04, 2017, 09:59:23 PM
Apparently while under house arrest Manafort tried to ghost write an op ed about himself with someone from Russia.

This guy is just plain dumb.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/04/manafort-russia-prosecutors-oped-278786

This guy must have some serious money problems if he is willing to do stuff like that while under house arrest.  I wonder if the judge will rule with the feds?  I assume so.
Title: Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
Post by: Cman on December 04, 2017, 10:13:43 PM
Apparently while under house arrest Manafort tried to ghost write an op ed about himself with someone from Russia.

This guy is just plain dumb.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/04/manafort-russia-prosecutors-oped-278786

This guy must have some serious money problems if he is willing to do stuff like that while under house arrest.  I wonder if the judge will rule with the feds?  I assume so.

It’s proof that lots of dumb people get lucky and make a ton of money.

I’m not sure what this says of Trump. He seems to regularly surround himself with really dumb people that either are, or border on, the textbook definition of scumbag. Manafort case in point.

Maybe that’s because Trumps just been unlucky. Maybe that’s because Trumps a scumbag himself. Maybe that’s because Trump doesn’t know any better and blindly trusts these type of people. Maybe that’s because of some strange psychological issue where Trump feels the need to surround himself with degraded people to make himself seeem better. In any case it is unPresidential and sad.
Title: Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
Post by: Beat LA on December 05, 2017, 04:49:58 AM
Manafort's the headline, but the more meaningful story for the big picture may be that George Papadopoulus, a foreign policy advisor to Trump's campaign, pleaded guilty to charges related to, at minimum, attempting to collude with the Russian gov't to get emails from Hillary Clinton.

Plea documents here: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4163402/Papadopoulos-Statement-Offense.pdf (https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4163402/Papadopoulos-Statement-Offense.pdf)

This plea and the statements in the doc that Papadopoulus has been giving info to the feds strongly suggests he's flipped and is aiding investigations against others to save himself.

Manafort himself is of course dirty as hell, particularly with Russia, and it was widely known - there were stories about this from the day he joined the campaign. Now the question is if he flips on anyone else too.
So this plea said Papadopolous "repeatedly sought to arrange ... a meeting between the Campaign and Russian government officials". Isn't that against US law?

There is a law that US citizen's can't meet with government officials from other countries? Yikes, bunch of people going to jail.  And this wasn't even someone for the Russian government, it was a Professor. 

I like that you throw in collude to get the emails back instead of, asking the Russians for US property to be returned to the American people. There was no colluding, they asked for the emails if Russia took them.   Colluding implies a working together.  Whatever Russia had, if they had them, they already stole.  If the FBI can't get those emails off Hillary's bleach bit hard drive, I'm pretty certain the Russians can't.

Partisanship is a helluva drug. Holy cow, the mental contortions it must take to believe this. Presumably he just lied to the FBI about it out of modesty?

The emails they're almost certainly talking about, BTW, are the ones from Podesta's account which were stolen just a couple of weeks before Papadopoulus and the campaign was notified. The ones Wikileaks eventually released hours after the Access Hollywood video broke and have repeatedly claimed didn't come from Russia.

Lollerskates on this exchange. Returned to the American people? Yikes.

My favorite part of this has to be Trump & Co.'s 'Clintons Did It!' Kansas City Shuffle strategy. At first, it is wildly infuriating, but after a while just the sheer audacity is stunning. Angry Chainsmoker Who Quit Yesterday Sarah Huckabee Sanders has my favorite rebuttal:

Quote
"I think we are seeing now that if there was any collusion with Russia, it was between the DNC and the Clintons, and certainly not our campaign,” Sanders told reporters.

(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/038/949/5f4.gif)

Nooooope, nope, nope, nope.  Nice try, guys, but according to someone named Caitlin Johnstone, not only is there nothing to see, here ::), but, well, I don't even know where to begin with this :o -

https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/the-same-mindset-supporting-russiagate-supported-the-iraq-invasion-15-years-ago-d105f90867a6

I think you'll also enjoy this latest "gem" ::) -

https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/russiagaters-are-the-very-worst-kind-of-conspiracy-theorists-bdeb0f4e496b

*facepalm*