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Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: CelticsElite on October 28, 2017, 02:31:54 AM

Title: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: CelticsElite on October 28, 2017, 02:31:54 AM
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21186074/philadelphia-76ers-continue-efforts-find-suitable-trade-jahlil-okafor

The Philadelphia 76ers are working with the representatives of Jahlil Okafor on finding a trade partner.

Okafor is out of the rotation behind Jahlil Okafor and Amir Johnson. The 76ers also are giving frontcourt minutes to Ben Simmons and Dario Saric.

The 76ers have to make a decision on whether to pick up Okafor's $6.3 million option for 18-19 by Oct. 31st. The 76ers are ultimately likely to exercise it if he's not traded.

Okafor, who has been professional and has worked rigorously on his body throughout this process, is healthy and fit for the first time in years and is poised to thrive with a change of scenery, according to sources
There are not currently any frontrunners in trading for Okafor.


Does disabled player exception qualify here? Danny had some interest in okafor in the off season when the amir Johnson sign and Trade Fell through

Career avg: 14pts/6rb/1assist
-Size- 6'11" tall, 7'0 wingspan. 270lbs
-Young with potential. Drafted high position
-Duke celtic family with Kyrie and Tatum grows bigger.

For a 1 year rental 15th man we could do worse
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: makaveli on October 28, 2017, 02:58:44 AM
i think highly of that kid's game. He needs a fresh start and a fair chance. I really hate the way that the sixers so far ruined his young carer and i wish worst for that organisation(if you can call them an organisaiton).

i wanted him on the Celtics, and if we can get him for scraps, then go for it, but i'm not sure who or what can we give up. Maybe Gershon and a 2nd rounder or something, maybe Nader?

anyhow i just wish they make a trade and get it over with, give the young kid a chance.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: TheSundanceKid on October 28, 2017, 04:32:26 AM
For the dpe to work here the 76ers would have to decline the team option for next year and Okafor would be a free agent this summer. The article suggests they wouldn't do that and they would need extra incentive. Don't see us giving them that.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: jdz101 on October 28, 2017, 05:14:24 AM
The stats are completely empty if he lets his opponent do the same or worse to him on the other end.

Therein lies the problem with Jah.

The NBA player representation of robbing Peter to pay Paul.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: 2short on October 28, 2017, 05:32:45 AM
If he comes here he plays behind Horford and Baynes for sure.  Theis might add more to the team.  Okafor is in a bad situation yes but his game is his offensive low post moves and that is it.  I see him at best backup center in league somewhere
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: timriffic on October 28, 2017, 08:43:30 AM
J . Okafor with DPE 
what are the Celtics giving up?
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Monkhouse on October 28, 2017, 08:56:19 AM
J . Okafor with DPE 
what are the Celtics giving up?

One second rounder lol.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: arctic 3.0 on October 28, 2017, 09:07:42 AM
Our second unit of Rosier, Smart, Morris, and Theis is so tough I think they would compensate for okafor's lack of D.
And he would add a new dimension to this squads offense.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Darío SpanishFan on October 28, 2017, 09:09:19 AM
You can't expect people believe this without the slightest source  ::)
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: timriffic on October 28, 2017, 09:17:18 AM
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21186074/philadelphia-76ers-continue-efforts-find-suitable-trade-jahlil-okafor
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: saltlover on October 28, 2017, 09:19:21 AM
You can't expect people believe this without the slightest source  ::)

Especially since there first would need to be news that Philadelphia declined his option for next season.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: celticsclay on October 28, 2017, 09:57:44 AM
You can't expect people believe this without the slightest source  ::)

Especially since there first would need to be news that Philadelphia declined his option for next season.

I have followed this pretty closely. Anything is possible, but it would be very shocking if they picked up his option as anything besides a condition of a trade where a new team wanted longer to try and fix him and had cap space. Their coach Brown recently talked at length about Amir Johnson beating out Okafor and that Okafor was not in the rotation. They also have Holmes coming back to battle Johnson for backup minutes. There doesn't really seem to be a chance they would pay him 6.8 million next year to back up embiid and Holmes (and possibly a vet they replace Johnson with).
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: PaulAllen on October 28, 2017, 10:10:07 AM
He is always on the trade block and while he has defensive limitations I dont understand why he is thrown to the wolves already at 21 years old..

He looked great all preseason.. Lost weight, looks more athletic ... only logged one game this season 10 and 9rb but still is in the doghouse..

I would strike if I were DA offer someone like Yabuesele ... at this point the price cant be too high,,
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: ChillyWilly on October 28, 2017, 10:19:06 AM
There has to be something with this guy other than poor defense. We see poor defenders find floor time if they can handle it on the offensive end.

I'm guessing he doesn't have a great work ethic or like we see sometimes with talented bigs doesn't have a desire for basketball.

Maybe I'm wrong but something just seems off with this entire situation. Not like the 6ers are world beaters and tired old Amir beating you out?
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: CelticD on October 28, 2017, 10:22:18 AM
If the Sixers don't pick up his team option I'd trade for him.

In limited minutes I believe he can be an asset to the team. He has flaws like really bad defense, an unwillingness to pass, the inability to shoot, but honestly he's coming from the Sixers with these problems. If he was coming from a team like the Spurs I'd be more concerned, but this is the same team that's making Markelle Fultz look like a bust early on.

Sure his game is outdated, but he's still someone you can give the ball to at the end of the shot clock that can make his own shot. The Celtics have players that shoot and play defense that will help cover up his deficiencies. He'd also have access to Al Horford which could do wonders for him.


Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Moranis on October 28, 2017, 11:17:41 AM
Suns would make sense.

Okafor for Bledsoe

Or

Okafor, Bayless for Bledose, Chandler

Sixers cans add players like Korkmaz if necessary
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: hpantazo on October 28, 2017, 11:21:28 AM
Suns would make sense.

Okafor for Bledsoe

Or

Okafor, Bayless for Bledose, Chandler

Sixers cans add players like Korkmaz if necessary


Bledsoe would kill Fultz's development.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: celticsclay on October 28, 2017, 11:35:42 AM
Suns would make sense.

Okafor for Bledsoe

Or

Okafor, Bayless for Bledose, Chandler

Sixers cans add players like Korkmaz if necessary

I am a bit confused by both these deals. The team writers are speculating the 76ers may even waive Okafor if they can't get a deal worked out. Their coach has come out and said based on ability he is not in their rotation. I think Bledsoe and the suns have torpedoed his trade value, but a team would still at least give up a late first or a semi interesting prospect for him. From the 76ers perspective are they putting fultz on the bench the next two years? Simmons and fultz both operate with the ball in their hands, plus the offense is going To heavily involve embiid. How do those 4 play together? And then what happens to Reddick?
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: tazzmaniac on October 28, 2017, 11:49:02 AM
Suns would make sense.

Okafor for Bledsoe

Or

Okafor, Bayless for Bledose, Chandler

Sixers cans add players like Korkmaz if necessary
Sixers won't do a trade that reduces their cap space until after they've renegotiated and extended Covington which can't happen until Nov 15.   
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: jambr380 on October 28, 2017, 12:19:42 PM
I'm ready for Okafor - let's finally get this over with. The Sixers just need to decline his option and he can be traded for a future 2nd using the DPE. I realize he is probably a bust, but we have been talking about this guy for too long to not give him a chance and getting him essentially for free for less than a season would be the perfect opportunity to see if Stevens can get anything out of him.

And if it doesn't work out, well, we can still trade him by the deadline.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: hwangjini_1 on October 28, 2017, 12:21:40 PM
shouldnt the thread title read "okafor on the block....as usual"?  ;D
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Phantom255x on October 28, 2017, 12:36:10 PM
QUESTION: If we were to acquire Okafor via trade using DPE.. would we be acquiring his Bird Rights or not (for a future extension)?
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: tazzmaniac on October 28, 2017, 01:33:10 PM
Suns would make sense.

Okafor for Bledsoe

Or

Okafor, Bayless for Bledose, Chandler

Sixers cans add players like Korkmaz if necessary

I am a bit confused by both these deals. The team writers are speculating the 76ers may even waive Okafor if they can't get a deal worked out. Their coach has come out and said based on ability he is not in their rotation. I think Bledsoe and the suns have torpedoed his trade value, but a team would still at least give up a late first or a semi interesting prospect for him. From the 76ers perspective are they putting fultz on the bench the next two years? Simmons and fultz both operate with the ball in their hands, plus the offense is going To heavily involve embiid. How do those 4 play together? And then what happens to Reddick?
The Sixers may not pick up Okafor's 4th year option but their is no reason to waive him now.  Maybe they'd do so after the trade deadline. 

I agree that it should take a bit more to get Bledsoe but if the Sixers could get Bledsoe for Okafor and filler they have to do that.  Bledsoe, Redick, Covington, Simmons and Embiid is a playoff team in the East.  The Sixers need another shot creator in the starting lineup.  Bledsoe is also an improvement over Bayless defensively.

Fultz isn't ready to start.  He's been coming off the bench behind Bayless.  His development will take however long it takes.  There is no reason to force him into the starting lineup if he's not ready.  Not only does that hurt their playoff chances but it also would impede the development of Simmons and Embiid.  If Fultz develops quickly this year, they can turn around and trade Bledsoe.   
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Celtics4ever on October 28, 2017, 01:33:21 PM
Quote
Suns would make sense.

Okafor for Bledsoe

Or

Okafor, Bayless for Bledose, Chandler

Except this really does not make sense in terms of basketball value for the Suns.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: CelticsQuestFor18 on October 28, 2017, 01:41:39 PM
I wouldn't mind taking a flier on him using DPE, BUT Okafor looks like he will get moved ASAP, and Ainge will definitely just keep the DPE and use it later in the season (probably on a better player that's bought out by then). Danny won't be in a rush to make a trade and use the DPE now, whereas Okafor looks like he's going to get dealt real soon. Timing doesn't work out here.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: celticsclay on October 28, 2017, 02:11:08 PM
Suns would make sense.

Okafor for Bledsoe

Or

Okafor, Bayless for Bledose, Chandler

Sixers cans add players like Korkmaz if necessary

I am a bit confused by both these deals. The team writers are speculating the 76ers may even waive Okafor if they can't get a deal worked out. Their coach has come out and said based on ability he is not in their rotation. I think Bledsoe and the suns have torpedoed his trade value, but a team would still at least give up a late first or a semi interesting prospect for him. From the 76ers perspective are they putting fultz on the bench the next two years? Simmons and fultz both operate with the ball in their hands, plus the offense is going To heavily involve embiid. How do those 4 play together? And then what happens to Reddick?
The Sixers may not pick up Okafor's 4th year option but their is no reason to waive him now.  Maybe they'd do so after the trade deadline. 

I agree that it should take a bit more to get Bledsoe but if the Sixers could get Bledsoe for Okafor and filler they have to do that.  Bledsoe, Redick, Covington, Simmons and Embiid is a playoff team in the East.  The Sixers need another shot creator in the starting lineup.  Bledsoe is also an improvement over Bayless defensively.

Fultz isn't ready to start.  He's been coming off the bench behind Bayless.  His development will take however long it takes.  There is no reason to force him into the starting lineup if he's not ready.  Not only does that hurt their playoff chances but it also would impede the development of Simmons and Embiid.  If Fultz develops quickly this year, they can turn around and trade Bledsoe.

If nobody is offering anything for Okafor cause the league has determined he is not worth the 6+ million dollar contract he is on, and brown has emphatically said he is not in the rotation, why wouldn't they just waive him or do a buyout? They would get good will from his agent and other players in the league (which honestly they could probably use a little of) and they do not have a distraction for a 4th string center.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Moranis on October 28, 2017, 02:23:19 PM
Suns would make sense.

Okafor for Bledsoe

Or

Okafor, Bayless for Bledose, Chandler

Sixers cans add players like Korkmaz if necessary

I am a bit confused by both these deals. The team writers are speculating the 76ers may even waive Okafor if they can't get a deal worked out. Their coach has come out and said based on ability he is not in their rotation. I think Bledsoe and the suns have torpedoed his trade value, but a team would still at least give up a late first or a semi interesting prospect for him. From the 76ers perspective are they putting fultz on the bench the next two years? Simmons and fultz both operate with the ball in their hands, plus the offense is going To heavily involve embiid. How do those 4 play together? And then what happens to Reddick?
The Sixers may not pick up Okafor's 4th year option but their is no reason to waive him now.  Maybe they'd do so after the trade deadline. 

I agree that it should take a bit more to get Bledsoe but if the Sixers could get Bledsoe for Okafor and filler they have to do that.  Bledsoe, Redick, Covington, Simmons and Embiid is a playoff team in the East.  The Sixers need another shot creator in the starting lineup.  Bledsoe is also an improvement over Bayless defensively.

Fultz isn't ready to start.  He's been coming off the bench behind Bayless.  His development will take however long it takes.  There is no reason to force him into the starting lineup if he's not ready.  Not only does that hurt their playoff chances but it also would impede the development of Simmons and Embiid.  If Fultz develops quickly this year, they can turn around and trade Bledsoe.

If nobody is offering anything for Okafor cause the league has determined he is not worth the 6+ million dollar contract he is on, and brown has emphatically said he is not in the rotation, why wouldn't they just waive him or do a buyout? They would get good will from his agent and other players in the league (which honestly they could probably use a little of) and they do not have a distraction for a 4th string center.
because he is insurance for Embiid. In fact the gane Embiid sat, Okafor played and scored 10 points and grabbed 9 rebounds. There is no reason to waive him
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: CelticsElite on October 28, 2017, 02:36:33 PM
If he comes here he plays behind Horford and Baynes for sure.  Theis might add more to the team.  Okafor is in a bad situation yes but his game is his offensive low post moves and that is it.  I see him at best backup center in league somewhere
true
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: tazzmaniac on October 28, 2017, 02:45:02 PM
Suns would make sense.

Okafor for Bledsoe

Or

Okafor, Bayless for Bledose, Chandler

Sixers cans add players like Korkmaz if necessary

I am a bit confused by both these deals. The team writers are speculating the 76ers may even waive Okafor if they can't get a deal worked out. Their coach has come out and said based on ability he is not in their rotation. I think Bledsoe and the suns have torpedoed his trade value, but a team would still at least give up a late first or a semi interesting prospect for him. From the 76ers perspective are they putting fultz on the bench the next two years? Simmons and fultz both operate with the ball in their hands, plus the offense is going To heavily involve embiid. How do those 4 play together? And then what happens to Reddick?
The Sixers may not pick up Okafor's 4th year option but their is no reason to waive him now.  Maybe they'd do so after the trade deadline. 

I agree that it should take a bit more to get Bledsoe but if the Sixers could get Bledsoe for Okafor and filler they have to do that.  Bledsoe, Redick, Covington, Simmons and Embiid is a playoff team in the East.  The Sixers need another shot creator in the starting lineup.  Bledsoe is also an improvement over Bayless defensively.

Fultz isn't ready to start.  He's been coming off the bench behind Bayless.  His development will take however long it takes.  There is no reason to force him into the starting lineup if he's not ready.  Not only does that hurt their playoff chances but it also would impede the development of Simmons and Embiid.  If Fultz develops quickly this year, they can turn around and trade Bledsoe.

If nobody is offering anything for Okafor cause the league has determined he is not worth the 6+ million dollar contract he is on, and brown has emphatically said he is not in the rotation, why wouldn't they just waive him or do a buyout? They would get good will from his agent and other players in the league (which honestly they could probably use a little of) and they do not have a distraction for a 4th string center.
Being out of a team's rotation is not a reason to waive a player especially when they are not causing a stink about it.  All we know is that no team offered enough to entice Colangelo to trade Okafor in the past.  That doesn't mean there weren't any offers.  Colangelo is likely to take less now.  Wouldn't be surprised to see a Portis and a 2nd (or fake 1st) for Okafor deal.   

Agent and player goodwill won't buy you a cup of coffee.  In any case, why would the Sixers and Colangelo have an issue with that.  They just gave Embiid a max contract after playing only 31 games.  They gave Redick 3 times as much as he's earned in a year.  They are about to renegotiate and extend Covington.

Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: SHAQATTACK on October 28, 2017, 03:12:42 PM
Here another opportunity for Danny to fleece Philly
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: celticsclay on October 28, 2017, 03:14:58 PM
Suns would make sense.

Okafor for Bledsoe

Or

Okafor, Bayless for Bledose, Chandler

Sixers cans add players like Korkmaz if necessary

I am a bit confused by both these deals. The team writers are speculating the 76ers may even waive Okafor if they can't get a deal worked out. Their coach has come out and said based on ability he is not in their rotation. I think Bledsoe and the suns have torpedoed his trade value, but a team would still at least give up a late first or a semi interesting prospect for him. From the 76ers perspective are they putting fultz on the bench the next two years? Simmons and fultz both operate with the ball in their hands, plus the offense is going To heavily involve embiid. How do those 4 play together? And then what happens to Reddick?
The Sixers may not pick up Okafor's 4th year option but their is no reason to waive him now.  Maybe they'd do so after the trade deadline. 

I agree that it should take a bit more to get Bledsoe but if the Sixers could get Bledsoe for Okafor and filler they have to do that.  Bledsoe, Redick, Covington, Simmons and Embiid is a playoff team in the East.  The Sixers need another shot creator in the starting lineup.  Bledsoe is also an improvement over Bayless defensively.

Fultz isn't ready to start.  He's been coming off the bench behind Bayless.  His development will take however long it takes.  There is no reason to force him into the starting lineup if he's not ready.  Not only does that hurt their playoff chances but it also would impede the development of Simmons and Embiid.  If Fultz develops quickly this year, they can turn around and trade Bledsoe.

If nobody is offering anything for Okafor cause the league has determined he is not worth the 6+ million dollar contract he is on, and brown has emphatically said he is not in the rotation, why wouldn't they just waive him or do a buyout? They would get good will from his agent and other players in the league (which honestly they could probably use a little of) and they do not have a distraction for a 4th string center.
because he is insurance for Embiid. In fact the gane Embiid sat, Okafor played and scored 10 points and grabbed 9 rebounds. There is no reason to waive him


I guess you are not really following this super close. Holmes is injured right now and will be back fairly soon. When he returns he will also play ahead of Okafor and Okafor is the 4th string center. At that point he isn't even embiid insurance. He is holmes insurance. Which would be lime us debating whether we can lose our Larkin insurance.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: slamtheking on October 28, 2017, 03:17:32 PM
the one thing he'd offer is variety in the offense where the team would be able to use his post scoring when they go through their frequent outside shooting dry spells
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: celticsclay on October 28, 2017, 03:22:28 PM
Suns would make sense.

Okafor for Bledsoe

Or

Okafor, Bayless for Bledose, Chandler

Sixers cans add players like Korkmaz if necessary

I am a bit confused by both these deals. The team writers are speculating the 76ers may even waive Okafor if they can't get a deal worked out. Their coach has come out and said based on ability he is not in their rotation. I think Bledsoe and the suns have torpedoed his trade value, but a team would still at least give up a late first or a semi interesting prospect for him. From the 76ers perspective are they putting fultz on the bench the next two years? Simmons and fultz both operate with the ball in their hands, plus the offense is going To heavily involve embiid. How do those 4 play together? And then what happens to Reddick?
The Sixers may not pick up Okafor's 4th year option but their is no reason to waive him now.  Maybe they'd do so after the trade deadline. 

I agree that it should take a bit more to get Bledsoe but if the Sixers could get Bledsoe for Okafor and filler they have to do that.  Bledsoe, Redick, Covington, Simmons and Embiid is a playoff team in the East.  The Sixers need another shot creator in the starting lineup.  Bledsoe is also an improvement over Bayless defensively.

Fultz isn't ready to start.  He's been coming off the bench behind Bayless.  His development will take however long it takes.  There is no reason to force him into the starting lineup if he's not ready.  Not only does that hurt their playoff chances but it also would impede the development of Simmons and Embiid.  If Fultz develops quickly this year, they can turn around and trade Bledsoe.

If nobody is offering anything for Okafor cause the league has determined he is not worth the 6+ million dollar contract he is on, and brown has emphatically said he is not in the rotation, why wouldn't they just waive him or do a buyout? They would get good will from his agent and other players in the league (which honestly they could probably use a little of) and they do not have a distraction for a 4th string center.
Being out of a team's rotation is not a reason to waive a player especially when they are not causing a stink about it.  All we know is that no team offered enough to entice Colangelo to trade Okafor in the past.  That doesn't mean there weren't any offers.  Colangelo is likely to take less now.  Wouldn't be surprised to see a Portis and a 2nd (or fake 1st) for Okafor deal.   

Agent and player goodwill won't buy you a cup of coffee.  In any case, why would the Sixers and Colangelo have an issue with that.  They just gave Embiid a max contract after playing only 31 games.  They gave Redick 3 times as much as he's earned in a year.  They are about to renegotiate and extend Covington.

Okafor has been a pretty good soldier overall but he has already made some minor grumblings to the media stating he didn't know if he was a member of the team anymore, it would be nice to be somewhere else etc. the interview was probably 3 weeks ago. I'll try to dig it up later when I am not on my phone. The longer this goes on, and he will have an even more muddled path to minutes when Holmes returns, the more frustrated he is going to become. The 76ers are not going to pay him 7 million dollars next year in case embiid and Holmes are both injured. I also disagree with you that good will with agents and good reputations with players are not worth anything. The heat have had a reputation for a long time (possibly changed in last few years) that they took care of their players. I've ready many articles of free agents mentioning that over the years. On the flip side reddick and Amir are making a combined 35 million in part because philly had a bad reputation with players from the hinkie years while players like Crawford and Gibson signed much more reasonable contracts with Minnesota
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: PaulAllen on October 28, 2017, 03:34:51 PM
For the dpe to work here the 76ers would have to decline the team option for next year and Okafor would be a free agent this summer. The article suggests they wouldn't do that and they would need extra incentive. Don't see us giving them that.

True.. But it can work if say you give them Yabusesle and Nadar
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: liam on October 28, 2017, 03:38:53 PM
I bet Brad could work wonders with Okafor. The BS factor should never be underestimated...
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: tazzmaniac on October 28, 2017, 04:14:55 PM
Suns would make sense.

Okafor for Bledsoe

Or

Okafor, Bayless for Bledose, Chandler

Sixers cans add players like Korkmaz if necessary

I am a bit confused by both these deals. The team writers are speculating the 76ers may even waive Okafor if they can't get a deal worked out. Their coach has come out and said based on ability he is not in their rotation. I think Bledsoe and the suns have torpedoed his trade value, but a team would still at least give up a late first or a semi interesting prospect for him. From the 76ers perspective are they putting fultz on the bench the next two years? Simmons and fultz both operate with the ball in their hands, plus the offense is going To heavily involve embiid. How do those 4 play together? And then what happens to Reddick?
The Sixers may not pick up Okafor's 4th year option but their is no reason to waive him now.  Maybe they'd do so after the trade deadline. 

I agree that it should take a bit more to get Bledsoe but if the Sixers could get Bledsoe for Okafor and filler they have to do that.  Bledsoe, Redick, Covington, Simmons and Embiid is a playoff team in the East.  The Sixers need another shot creator in the starting lineup.  Bledsoe is also an improvement over Bayless defensively.

Fultz isn't ready to start.  He's been coming off the bench behind Bayless.  His development will take however long it takes.  There is no reason to force him into the starting lineup if he's not ready.  Not only does that hurt their playoff chances but it also would impede the development of Simmons and Embiid.  If Fultz develops quickly this year, they can turn around and trade Bledsoe.

If nobody is offering anything for Okafor cause the league has determined he is not worth the 6+ million dollar contract he is on, and brown has emphatically said he is not in the rotation, why wouldn't they just waive him or do a buyout? They would get good will from his agent and other players in the league (which honestly they could probably use a little of) and they do not have a distraction for a 4th string center.
Being out of a team's rotation is not a reason to waive a player especially when they are not causing a stink about it.  All we know is that no team offered enough to entice Colangelo to trade Okafor in the past.  That doesn't mean there weren't any offers.  Colangelo is likely to take less now.  Wouldn't be surprised to see a Portis and a 2nd (or fake 1st) for Okafor deal.   

Agent and player goodwill won't buy you a cup of coffee.  In any case, why would the Sixers and Colangelo have an issue with that.  They just gave Embiid a max contract after playing only 31 games.  They gave Redick 3 times as much as he's earned in a year.  They are about to renegotiate and extend Covington.

Okafor has been a pretty good soldier overall but he has already made some minor grumblings to the media stating he didn't know if he was a member of the team anymore, it would be nice to be somewhere else etc. the interview was probably 3 weeks ago. I'll try to dig it up later when I am not on my phone. The longer this goes on, and he will have an even more muddled path to minutes when Holmes returns, the more frustrated he is going to become. The 76ers are not going to pay him 7 million dollars next year in case embiid and Holmes are both injured. I also disagree with you that good will with agents and good reputations with players are not worth anything. The heat have had a reputation for a long time (possibly changed in last few years) that they took care of their players. I've ready many articles of free agents mentioning that over the years. On the flip side reddick and Amir are making a combined 35 million in part because philly had a bad reputation with players from the hinkie years while players like Crawford and Gibson signed much more reasonable contracts with Minnesota
Redick (23M) and Amir (11M) are making that much because they are on 1 year contracts.  The Sixers were not going to give multi-year deals this offseason as they wanted to retain their cap space for next offseason.  We were paying Amir 12M per year for the same reason.  Crawford and Gibson are on 2 year deals.  Gibson's 2yr/28M is definitely not more reasonable.  The Sixers did overpay for Redick because he was the player that they really wanted but only for a year.  They didn't want a bidding war.  They gave him a big number and 1 hour to decide. 
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: green_bballers13 on October 28, 2017, 05:00:15 PM
I think at least one of the 28 other teams can offer the Sixers something more considerable than what I want the Celtics to give up for him. However, Danny has shown no lack of confidence in trading away valuable assets for players that he likes.

I am interested in picking up Okafor. I'm curious what his # will be when he hits FA. Anything north of $15m.... I'm not interested.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: hpantazo on October 28, 2017, 05:17:40 PM
For the dpe to work here the 76ers would have to decline the team option for next year and Okafor would be a free agent this summer. The article suggests they wouldn't do that and they would need extra incentive. Don't see us giving them that.

True.. But it can work if say you give them Yabusesle and Nadar

You cannot package the DPE with outgoing salary.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Chief Macho on October 28, 2017, 06:18:22 PM
I bet Brad could work wonders with Okafor. The BS factor should never be underestimated...

I agree with this.  I really hope he gets dealt somewhere that will play him.

Have we ever had verified reports of ANY interest on the part of the C's?
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Dino Pitino on October 28, 2017, 06:25:05 PM
Quote
(probably on a better player that's bought out by then)

I see no such player on the horizon. Name some.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: RodyTur10 on October 28, 2017, 06:55:10 PM
Are the 76ers still asking for a haul. Like lottery picks? Because you'd think that otherwise at least one GM would be interested in taking a chance on Okafor. Teams like the Pacers, Bulls or Hawks have nothing to lose in giving the guy a real opportunity.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Beat LA on October 28, 2017, 08:25:01 PM
He's always on the block, which is at least one reason why many on here, and elsewhere, deem him to not be a good fit for the "modern NBA" lol :laugh:.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: More Banners on October 28, 2017, 08:28:39 PM
He's always on the block, which is at least one reason why many on here, and elsewhere, deem him to not be a good fit for the "modern NBA" lol :laugh:.

Can't shoot or defend. Olowakandi 2.0.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: celticsclay on October 29, 2017, 10:08:01 AM
People wanted to trade smart for this guy for a while. Next year smart will be making 15 million and this guy may be on the vet min somewhere
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: TheSundanceKid on October 29, 2017, 04:35:06 PM
For the dpe to work here the 76ers would have to decline the team option for next year and Okafor would be a free agent this summer. The article suggests they wouldn't do that and they would need extra incentive. Don't see us giving them that.

True.. But it can work if say you give them Yabusesle and Nadar

You cannot package the DPE with outgoing salary.
With those two players you can match salary so you wouldn't need the DPE. I don't think we'd do that trade though.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: jambr380 on October 29, 2017, 06:02:52 PM
I think at least one of the 28 other teams can offer the Sixers something more considerable than what I want the Celtics to give up for him. However, Danny has shown no lack of confidence in trading away valuable assets for players that he likes.

I am interested in picking up Okafor. I'm curious what his # will be when he hits FA. Anything north of $15m.... I'm not interested.

Barring an incredible turnaround, I would say Okafor's # will be much closer to the league minimum than $15M. Even though salaries for average players have skyrocketed these past couple of seasons, that money is drying up quickly and basically only star-level players will be getting paid.

Seeing how Okafor is currently a 3rd string player on one of the worst teams in the NBA, it is safe to say that if we wanted to re-sign him for cheap next year, then that option would certainly be available. In fact, Danny may be just waiting until the offseason rather than trading any asset for him right now.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: hwangjini_1 on October 29, 2017, 06:18:42 PM
i am not convinced okafor will ever be able to play away from the basket. heck baynes, whom i had never really heard of before he became a celtic, has better range. where okafor fits in with CBS' offense is beyond me. okafor has taken zero 3 pointers since his rookie year.

defense? his feet are slow, but i guess he could play better if he decided to play with more passion in that area. can you coach passion and determination? not so sure for this kid. he is now in his third year and is trending downwards.

should we blame philly for this? maybe. but then, embiid seems motivated and plays well...when he can play. saric too.

but even were CBS able to "fix" Okafor with lots of coaching, he's unlikely to be a positive this year. if so all the celtics would be doing would be to help him get paid by someone else when he leaves after one year.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: liam on October 29, 2017, 07:06:16 PM
I think at least one of the 28 other teams can offer the Sixers something more considerable than what I want the Celtics to give up for him. However, Danny has shown no lack of confidence in trading away valuable assets for players that he likes.

I am interested in picking up Okafor. I'm curious what his # will be when he hits FA. Anything north of $15m.... I'm not interested.

Barring an incredible turnaround, I would say Okafor's # will be much closer to the league minimum than $15M. Even though salaries for average players have skyrocketed these past couple of seasons, that money is drying up quickly and basically only star-level players will be getting paid.

Seeing how Okafor is currently a 3rd string player on one of the worst teams in the NBA, it is safe to say that if we wanted to re-sign him for cheap next year, then that option would certainly be available. In fact, Danny may be just waiting until the offseason rather than trading any asset for him right now.

Good point.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: gouki88 on October 29, 2017, 07:14:40 PM
That's nice. They can trade him somewhere not called Boston
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Big333223 on October 30, 2017, 09:26:25 AM
A big who doesn't rebound, doesn't play defense, and can't shoot with any range. He also missed 61 games over his first two seasons and isn't playing right now, so he's an injury risk.

Pass.
Title: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
Post by: CelticsElite on October 31, 2017, 12:54:18 PM
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/transactions/league/2018

The Philadelphia 76ers have picked up their rookie scale team options on Ben Simmons, Dario Saric, Justin Anderson and Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot, but they have yet to do so for Jahlil Okafor.

The 76ers are shopping Okafor in trade talks with other teams as both sides would like to move on.

Title: Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
Post by: celticsclay on October 31, 2017, 01:14:36 PM
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/transactions/league/2018

The Philadelphia 76ers have picked up their rookie scale team options on Ben Simmons, Dario Saric, Justin Anderson and Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot, but they have yet to do so for Jahlil Okafor.

The 76ers are shopping Okafor in trade talks with other teams as both sides would like to move on.

It feels like he would be very difficult to trade. I don't think a team would want to pay him 7 million dollars next year based on what he has shown. So then you are talking about trying to match 5 million for the rest of this year and you don't have his bird rights. Is buying him out and letting him move on the best way to go for everyone? The 76ers have been pretty tight with cash at times and I believe even sold one of the picks they got for Noel. If they had an opportunity to save one or two million dollars in a buyout I would have to think they would jump at it. Is that something that is allowed in CBA?
Title: Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
Post by: KGs Knee on October 31, 2017, 01:22:53 PM
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/transactions/league/2018

The Philadelphia 76ers have picked up their rookie scale team options on Ben Simmons, Dario Saric, Justin Anderson and Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot, but they have yet to do so for Jahlil Okafor.

The 76ers are shopping Okafor in trade talks with other teams as both sides would like to move on.

It feels like he would be very difficult to trade. I don't think a team would want to pay him 7 million dollars next year based on what he has shown. So then you are talking about trying to match 5 million for the rest of this year and you don't have his bird rights. Is buying him out and letting him move on the best way to go for everyone? The 76ers have been pretty tight with cash at times and I believe even sold one of the picks they got for Noel. If they had an opportunity to save one or two million dollars in a buyout I would have to think they would jump at it. Is that something that is allowed in CBA?

Even if the Sixers do decline to pick up his option by the end of today, they still will have full bird rights, as will any team that trades for him. What it will mean, though, is that Okafor will be a UFA instead of a RFA.

As for a buyout, sure, you can always ask the player to take less money than they are guaranteed. Doesn't mean the player has to accept, though. I have no idea if Okafor would be receptive to that.
Title: Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
Post by: celticsclay on October 31, 2017, 01:25:30 PM
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/transactions/league/2018

The Philadelphia 76ers have picked up their rookie scale team options on Ben Simmons, Dario Saric, Justin Anderson and Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot, but they have yet to do so for Jahlil Okafor.

The 76ers are shopping Okafor in trade talks with other teams as both sides would like to move on.

It feels like he would be very difficult to trade. I don't think a team would want to pay him 7 million dollars next year based on what he has shown. So then you are talking about trying to match 5 million for the rest of this year and you don't have his bird rights. Is buying him out and letting him move on the best way to go for everyone? The 76ers have been pretty tight with cash at times and I believe even sold one of the picks they got for Noel. If they had an opportunity to save one or two million dollars in a buyout I would have to think they would jump at it. Is that something that is allowed in CBA?

Even if the Sixers do decline to pick up his option by the end of today, they still will have full bird rights, as will any team that trades for him. What it will mean, though, is that Okafor will be a UFA instead of a RFA.

As for a buyout, sure, you can always ask the player to take less money than they are guaranteed. Doesn't mean the player has to accept, though. I have no idea if Okafor would be receptive to that.

Thanks for the clarification. Obviously this is speculation on my part, but if Okafor is not having his option picked up it seems like it would be kind of common sense to accept the buyout to sign on with a team that promises him minutes before he reaches free agency. Brown has said he is not playing based on performance and at this time it is not close and he is not in the rotation. He will get further buried on the bench when Richaun Holmes returns from a wrist injury. I hope for all involved he gets out of there...
Title: Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
Post by: mmmmm on October 31, 2017, 01:37:45 PM
FWIW:  I would be interested in taking a flyer on Okafor, for the right price.

I think it's still way too early to completely give up on him.   He has size, wingspan and skills.  He didn't win that NCAA title by being a lousy basketball player.   I just think he has always been a total square peg since being picked by Philly for their round hole.   I think in the right environment and system he could be coached to be a good NBA player.

That said, due to the expiring nature of his contract and the risk that he cannot be salvaged. the price would have to be very reasonable.   Philly would be crazy to expect a top-half 1st round pick here.
Title: Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
Post by: saltlover on October 31, 2017, 01:45:33 PM
FWIW:  I would be interested in taking a flyer on Okafor, for the right price.

I think it's still way too early to completely give up on him.   He has size, wingspan and skills.  He didn't win that NCAA title by being a lousy basketball player.   I just think he has always been a total square peg since being picked by Philly for their round hole.   I think in the right environment and system he could be coached to be a good NBA player.

That said, due to the expiring nature of his contract and the risk that he cannot be salvaged. the price would have to be very reasonable.   Philly would be crazy to expect a top-half 1st round pick here.

I wouldn’t give more than a single second.  If Okafor plays reasonably well, the Celtics will be unlikely to keep him in free agency.  If he doesn’t play well, then obviously that’s a waste too.  The sweet spot for the Celtics in the deal is that he’s okay enough to be situationally useful, showing a enough promise to warrant a one year deal to return next year to prove himself for free agency 2019, and plays terrific next year.  Or he totally explodes into an elite player this year, making it worth the one year rental.  Both of those sweet spots are pretty unlikely.

I would absolutely do it for a 2nd.  But the likelihood of even getting value equivalent to the Clippers pick seems too low to offer more.
Title: Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
Post by: KGs Knee on October 31, 2017, 01:47:34 PM
Philly would be crazy to expect a top-half 1st round pick here.

Philly is crazy if they think they can get any 1st round pick for Okafor at this point, especially if he's going to be a UFA.

If I'm the Celtics, the most I'm willing to give up is the DPE and maybe our own 2nd round pick. The cap saving alone should be worth it to the Sixers.
Title: Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
Post by: eja117 on October 31, 2017, 01:50:42 PM
Another possible victim of the new small ball era. He can't draw a defender away from the hoop if he can't shoot. And he can't just hang out under the hoop to be a rim protector if his man can shoot.
Title: Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
Post by: GreenShooter on October 31, 2017, 02:01:22 PM
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/transactions/league/2018

The Philadelphia 76ers have picked up their rookie scale team options on Ben Simmons, Dario Saric, Justin Anderson and Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot, but they have yet to do so for Jahlil Okafor.

The 76ers are shopping Okafor in trade talks with other teams as both sides would like to move on.

It feels like he would be very difficult to trade. I don't think a team would want to pay him 7 million dollars next year based on what he has shown. So then you are talking about trying to match 5 million for the rest of this year and you don't have his bird rights. Is buying him out and letting him move on the best way to go for everyone? The 76ers have been pretty tight with cash at times and I believe even sold one of the picks they got for Noel. If they had an opportunity to save one or two million dollars in a buyout I would have to think they would jump at it. Is that something that is allowed in CBA?
Yeah, the contract is probably the BIG issue as to why he's still on the team. I don't see why they can't buy him out but like you said, there may be something in the CBA about rookie contracts and buyouts but maybe not. We shall see.
Title: Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
Post by: mmmmm on October 31, 2017, 02:01:37 PM
FWIW:  I would be interested in taking a flyer on Okafor, for the right price.

I think it's still way too early to completely give up on him.   He has size, wingspan and skills.  He didn't win that NCAA title by being a lousy basketball player.   I just think he has always been a total square peg since being picked by Philly for their round hole.   I think in the right environment and system he could be coached to be a good NBA player.

That said, due to the expiring nature of his contract and the risk that he cannot be salvaged. the price would have to be very reasonable.   Philly would be crazy to expect a top-half 1st round pick here.

I wouldn’t give more than a single second.  If Okafor plays reasonably well, the Celtics will be unlikely to keep him in free agency.  If he doesn’t play well, then obviously that’s a waste too.  The sweet spot for the Celtics in the deal is that he’s okay enough to be situationally useful, showing a enough promise to warrant a one year deal to return next year to prove himself for free agency 2019, and plays terrific next year.  Or he totally explodes into an elite player this year, making it worth the one year rental.  Both of those sweet spots are pretty unlikely.

I would absolutely do it for a 2nd.  But the likelihood of even getting value equivalent to the Clippers pick seems too low to offer more.

Yeah, a 2nd round pick sounds about right.  I wouldn't get upset if the price was into the bottom of the 1st round, but no more than that.
Title: Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
Post by: Wretch on October 31, 2017, 02:08:17 PM
I see a team like NJ or ATL as a more likely destination for Okafor. They both need young talent and can afford to take a flier on someone who was drafted with a high pick but might need a change of scenery. Also they aren't looking to contend right away so picking up the 7m option doesn't hurt their short term cap/luxury tax situation too much. Not sure of their cap situations but they might be able to just take on the salary creating a trade exception that might be useful in a future trade.  Also a second round pick from bottom feeding teams is better than one of the Celtic's 2nd round picks.
Title: Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
Post by: Monkhouse on October 31, 2017, 02:13:28 PM
I really, really, really, wish we could take a flier on Okafor. I'm not convinced he's a finished product. Far from it. He's always actually been an underrated passer. His post moves require so much attention, but his scoring also revolves around his confidence. Which was pretty much shattered during his time with the 76ers.

He got into a few bar fights, diminished role, inconsistent minutes, and just the overall lack of vote of confidence from the front office and GM.

I mean, this guy desperately needs a new environment. With a culture that is self prevalent on team continuity and trust, Okafor could definitely thrive, and even someone like Stevens could certainly make Okafor fit.
Title: Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
Post by: BitterJim on October 31, 2017, 02:31:27 PM
FWIW:  I would be interested in taking a flyer on Okafor, for the right price.

I think it's still way too early to completely give up on him.   He has size, wingspan and skills.  He didn't win that NCAA title by being a lousy basketball player.   I just think he has always been a total square peg since being picked by Philly for their round hole.   I think in the right environment and system he could be coached to be a good NBA player.

That said, due to the expiring nature of his contract and the risk that he cannot be salvaged. the price would have to be very reasonable.   Philly would be crazy to expect a top-half 1st round pick here.

I agree.  I'm not a fan of his game, but for something like a second rounder or two... why not take a flyer on him? We need depth at C anyway, worst case scenario is we pay him $5 million this year to sit on the bench (or at home if he pulls a Keith Bogans).  I wouldn't be a fan of cutting or trading someone to bring him in, but with the DPE, why not?
Title: Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
Post by: liam on October 31, 2017, 03:22:51 PM
I see a team like NJ or ATL as a more likely destination for Okafor. They both need young talent and can afford to take a flier on someone who was drafted with a high pick but might need a change of scenery. Also they aren't looking to contend right away so picking up the 7m option doesn't hurt their short term cap/luxury tax situation too much. Not sure of their cap situations but they might be able to just take on the salary creating a trade exception that might be useful in a future trade.  Also a second round pick from bottom feeding teams is better than one of the Celtic's 2nd round picks.

I agree with your point but there is no NJ.
Title: Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
Post by: nickagneta on October 31, 2017, 03:25:07 PM
I can't help wonder if behind the scene Okafor is a problem. Not so much that he causes drama but more like his work ethic is bad, he is slow to learn, he gives little extra effort, not very coachable. That type of stuff.

He has the measurables and a good low post game but if he can't learn or won't work on his defensive skills and outside offensive game, he just isn't worth wasting time on. Sure the requisite response is Stevens will get more out of him than the coaching staff in Philly is. But some players you just can't get through to, no matter who is coaching them. Maybe Okafor is one of those guys and the league's GMs know this.
Title: Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
Post by: saltlover on October 31, 2017, 04:02:22 PM
I can't help wonder if behind the scene Okafor is a problem. Not so much that he causes drama but more like his work ethic is bad, he is slow to learn, he gives little extra effort, not very coachable. That type of stuff.

He has the measurables and a good low post game but if he can't learn or won't work on his defensive skills and outside offensive game, he just isn't worth wasting time on. Sure the requisite response is Stevens will get more out of him than the coaching staff in Philly is. But some players you just can't get through to, no matter who is coaching them. Maybe Okafor is one of those guys and the league's GMs know this.

My bigger concern is injury.  In March 2016, he had a procedure with a six-week recovery time:

http://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/philadelphia-sixers/jahlil-okafor-has-successful-surgery-right-knee?amp (http://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/philadelphia-sixers/jahlil-okafor-has-successful-surgery-right-knee?amp)

Despite that six-week recovery time, and positive updates all along the way, he missed all of the 2016 preseason seven months later:

https://www.libertyballers.com/2016/10/15/13279644/jahlil-okafor-knee-surgery-meniscus-repair-bryan-colangelo-accountability (https://www.libertyballers.com/2016/10/15/13279644/jahlil-okafor-knee-surgery-meniscus-repair-bryan-colangelo-accountability)

And then he had surgery again in March 2017, having reportedly dealt with knee issues all season as a result of the prior surgery:

https://www.nba.com/amp/league/article/2017/03/31/sixers-shutting-down-jahlil-okafor-and-robert-covington (https://www.nba.com/amp/league/article/2017/03/31/sixers-shutting-down-jahlil-okafor-and-robert-covington)

Especially with all the other questionable injury info coming out of Philly (Simmons, Embiid, Fultz, even back to Andrew Bynum and Jrue Holiday), it really seems to me there is more likely to be a somewhat significant injury that they are keeping under wraps.
Title: Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
Post by: jbp126 on October 31, 2017, 04:07:54 PM
I can't help wonder if behind the scene Okafor is a problem. Not so much that he causes drama but more like his work ethic is bad, he is slow to learn, he gives little extra effort, not very coachable. That type of stuff.

He has the measurables and a good low post game but if he can't learn or won't work on his defensive skills and outside offensive game, he just isn't worth wasting time on. Sure the requisite response is Stevens will get more out of him than the coaching staff in Philly is. But some players you just can't get through to, no matter who is coaching them. Maybe Okafor is one of those guys and the league's GMs know this.

It’s definitely possible poor work ethic and attitude have contributed to his lack of development in Philly but I think a change of scenery could help remedy those issues. In addition to Stevens, we also have an established locker room that includes several former Duke players. His low post scoring could be a valuable weapon off the bench. I’m very aware of his inability to rebound, slow feet, and bad defensive instincts/awareness but those could be worked on and he has undeniable size and offensive skills that have been underutilized thus far.
Title: Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
Post by: Moranis on October 31, 2017, 04:18:33 PM
I can't help wonder if behind the scene Okafor is a problem. Not so much that he causes drama but more like his work ethic is bad, he is slow to learn, he gives little extra effort, not very coachable. That type of stuff.

He has the measurables and a good low post game but if he can't learn or won't work on his defensive skills and outside offensive game, he just isn't worth wasting time on. Sure the requisite response is Stevens will get more out of him than the coaching staff in Philly is. But some players you just can't get through to, no matter who is coaching them. Maybe Okafor is one of those guys and the league's GMs know this.

It’s definitely possible poor work ethic and attitude have contributed to his lack of development in Philly but I think a change of scenery could help remedy those issues. In addition to Stevens, we also have an established locker room that includes several former Duke players. His low post scoring could be a valuable weapon off the bench. I’m very aware of his inability to rebound, slow feet, and bad defensive instincts/awareness but those could be worked on and he has undeniable size and offensive skills that have been underutilized thus far.
people keep saying these things about Okafor, but he has played in 1 game this year.  It is most likely the healthiest he has been in the pros.  He played 22 minutes, scored 10 points (4 of 7 and 2 of 4 from the line), grabbed 9 rebounds (4 offensive), blocked 2 shots with 2 turnovers and 4 fouls.  He obviously isn't going to do that every night, but I think he is much closer to that type of player than a guy that doesn't belong in the league.  He just needs a new team that will actually commit to him and let him grow as a player.  I have no idea if that is Boston, though I wouldn't mind taking the flyer on him, but he absolutely needs a change of scenery.
Title: Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
Post by: saltlover on October 31, 2017, 04:20:51 PM
Now it’s official — Sixers have declined Okafor’s option, making him DPE eligible.  Recall that the Celtics got a second-rounder 3 drafts away for Austin Rivers, who was also a declined 4th-year option player, and you should see the approximate value.  (That second-rounder became Jabari Bird, so it wasn’t completely worthless we hope).
Title: Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
Post by: Wretch on October 31, 2017, 04:21:24 PM
I see a team like NJ or ATL as a more likely destination for Okafor. They both need young talent and can afford to take a flier on someone who was drafted with a high pick but might need a change of scenery. Also they aren't looking to contend right away so picking up the 7m option doesn't hurt their short term cap/luxury tax situation too much. Not sure of their cap situations but they might be able to just take on the salary creating a trade exception that might be useful in a future trade.  Also a second round pick from bottom feeding teams is better than one of the Celtic's 2nd round picks.

I agree with your point but there is no NJ.
sorry showing my age there, Brooklyn 😀
Title: Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
Post by: Birdman on October 31, 2017, 04:23:50 PM
Guy has skills..now is it his attitude or something else is why he's not playing?? Granted he's not a star in the making but he's better than what Chicago or Atlanta got lol
Title: Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
Post by: Csfan1984 on October 31, 2017, 04:25:28 PM
I would like to see a big man added with the DPE but not sure Okafor is that guy, then again not much out there.
Title: Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
Post by: biggs on October 31, 2017, 04:27:53 PM
His value has diminished to a Monroe, (MIL) if you will. He definitely doesn't fit the description of a modern NBA PF, but why does everyone think that we have to be the Warriors to beat the Warriors? Just because their strategy worked for a few years doesn't mean that it can't be beaten with a different strategy.

He may be the best player we could get with the injured player reward thingy..

If there are no underlying character issues, I might at least kick the tires on a trade for him.

Kid has talent, just not what the game wants right now.

Doesn't mean he can't adapt/ play a role in some form in the future.

I know, I sound like a therapist that tells you something you already know ;)
Title: Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
Post by: mmmmm on October 31, 2017, 04:46:21 PM
I can't help wonder if behind the scene Okafor is a problem. Not so much that he causes drama but more like his work ethic is bad, he is slow to learn, he gives little extra effort, not very coachable. That type of stuff.

He has the measurables and a good low post game but if he can't learn or won't work on his defensive skills and outside offensive game, he just isn't worth wasting time on. Sure the requisite response is Stevens will get more out of him than the coaching staff in Philly is. But some players you just can't get through to, no matter who is coaching them. Maybe Okafor is one of those guys and the league's GMs know this.

I dunno.  He apparently put in the work to lose a lot of weight this last summer and per an interview seemingly came to camp ready to do whatever was needed -- though seemingly pretty realistic that he wasn't a long term fit with the Sixer's org.

Sure enough, he's played a grand total of just 22.1 minutes this season.

It's always difficult to 'read between the lines' with these situations.   Evan Turner had all kinds of bad vibes attached to his rep by the time he got here, but ended up being a solid teammate (though he remained a thoroughly mediocre player).
Title: Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
Post by: hwangjini_1 on October 31, 2017, 05:07:27 PM
FWIW:  I would be interested in taking a flyer on Okafor, for the right price.

I think it's still way too early to completely give up on him.   He has size, wingspan and skills.  He didn't win that NCAA title by being a lousy basketball player.   I just think he has always been a total square peg since being picked by Philly for their round hole.   I think in the right environment and system he could be coached to be a good NBA player.

That said, due to the expiring nature of his contract and the risk that he cannot be salvaged. the price would have to be very reasonable.   Philly would be crazy to expect a top-half 1st round pick here.

I agree.  I'm not a fan of his game, but for something like a second rounder or two... why not take a flyer on him? We need depth at C anyway, worst case scenario is we pay him $5 million this year to sit on the bench (or at home if he pulls a Keith Bogans).  I wouldn't be a fan of cutting or trading someone to bring him in, but with the DPE, why not?
while i understand your points, i am still put off by his contract. if, as you say, he sits on the bench this year, then why pay him $5,000,000? if, as many people hope, he develops into a real player, then his salary demand will jump significantly and he will test the free agent market.

would the celtics be willing to pay for that?

he looks to be gone after this year in either scenario. so why get him to begin with?
Title: Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
Post by: dreamgreen on October 31, 2017, 05:07:29 PM
Is he hurt or do they just not play him? I think he has talent and can play but it has to be in the right system. This will be very interesting to watch and see what happens.
Title: Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
Post by: celticsclay on October 31, 2017, 05:09:38 PM
his option was declined.
Title: Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
Post by: byennie on October 31, 2017, 05:23:12 PM
I think the part of the Okafor story people tend to miss, is that he's actually a terrible OFFENSIVE player. He's more Anthony Bennett than just a guy with defensive problems.

78th in Offensive Rebound Rate
152nd in Defensive Rebound Rate
466th out of 468 in Real Plus Minus
Negative VORP for his career
-3.8 BPM, on one of the worst teams in the league
4 turnovers, 5 fouls and 2 assists per 100 possessions
51% career FG
67% career FT

Offensive Rating: 100
Defensive Rating: 110

He's one of the worst players in the league, who somehow manages to be one of the worst +/- guys as well, while playing for the Sixers.

Does he have talent? Yes, just like Anthony Bennett and Sully have talent.
Title: Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
Post by: ImShakHeIsShaq on October 31, 2017, 05:32:35 PM
I'm a Duke basketball fan (don't really watch much anymore) but I didn't like Okafor as much as I should have when he was there, he was very good but IMO seemed lazy (what is defense?). Just because I don't like someone doesn't mean I wouldn't like to see them play for my team if they are good enough (eww LBJ and Kobe), I think CBS can do wonders for him and in turn that can help us out a lot IF it works and he really wants it.
Title: Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
Post by: Roy H. on October 31, 2017, 05:43:25 PM
I’d give the TPE for him. If nothing else he’s a tradeable contract at the deadline.
Title: Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
Post by: celticsclay on October 31, 2017, 06:12:13 PM
I’d give the TPE for him. If nothing else he’s a tradeable contract at the deadline.

Do you feel this is true even with his option declined? Wouldn't that mean you could only trade him fro a fellow expiring?
Title: Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
Post by: Roy H. on October 31, 2017, 06:31:16 PM
I’d give the TPE for him. If nothing else he’s a tradeable contract at the deadline.

Do you feel this is true even with his option declined? Wouldn't that mean you could only trade him fro a fellow expiring?

Why so?
Title: Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
Post by: saltlover on October 31, 2017, 06:34:16 PM
I’d give the TPE for him. If nothing else he’s a tradeable contract at the deadline.

Do you feel this is true even with his option declined? Wouldn't that mean you could only trade him fro a fellow expiring?

No, he could be traded for a non-expiring deal. 60-days after he’s acquired, his salary could be aggregated with other players’ to take back even more.
Title: Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
Post by: Vox_Populi on October 31, 2017, 06:43:48 PM
Imagine drafting him over Porzingis. Ouch.
Title: Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
Post by: saltlover on October 31, 2017, 06:43:50 PM
FWIW:  I would be interested in taking a flyer on Okafor, for the right price.

I think it's still way too early to completely give up on him.   He has size, wingspan and skills.  He didn't win that NCAA title by being a lousy basketball player.   I just think he has always been a total square peg since being picked by Philly for their round hole.   I think in the right environment and system he could be coached to be a good NBA player.

That said, due to the expiring nature of his contract and the risk that he cannot be salvaged. the price would have to be very reasonable.   Philly would be crazy to expect a top-half 1st round pick here.

I agree.  I'm not a fan of his game, but for something like a second rounder or two... why not take a flyer on him? We need depth at C anyway, worst case scenario is we pay him $5 million this year to sit on the bench (or at home if he pulls a Keith Bogans).  I wouldn't be a fan of cutting or trading someone to bring him in, but with the DPE, why not?
while i understand your points, i am still put off by his contract. if, as you say, he sits on the bench this year, then why pay him $5,000,000? if, as many people hope, he develops into a real player, then his salary demand will jump significantly and he will test the free agent market.

would the celtics be willing to pay for that?

he looks to be gone after this year in either scenario. so why get him to begin with?

1) There is a middle ground, where he plays reasonably well, but not enough to command a “huge” offer next year.  We would be allowed to sign him to a deal of up to $7.9 million (I think — might only be $6.3 million) which is more than the taxpayer MLE and near the full MLE.  Since few teams have cap room, he might be willing to resign for a season or two to get a bigger offer when more cap room is available and he has increased his value more by continuing to demonstrate his talent and ability to fit in the NBA.  Don’t think players aren’t aware of how Stevens helped utilize Turner into a major deal, and turned IT into a potential max player (his injury being the only thing that could prevent such an offer).

2) On the downside, if he still stinks, he’s an expiring contract that can be traded again at the deadline.  We’re actually quite short on salary filler, and an extra $5 million could go a long way if we try to swing a blockbuster.  We paid Zeller $8 million to be potential trade filler last year, so what’s $5 million?
Title: Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
Post by: Erik on October 31, 2017, 06:45:02 PM
You guys have no idea how strong a player like Okafor would do on a team like Celtics or Spurs with some discipline, pride and strong coaching staff. We need to get him. Trade our own 1st rounder and use the exception. The kid can score like crazy. We just need to teach him team ball.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Erik on October 31, 2017, 06:54:59 PM
A big who doesn't rebound, doesn't play defense, and can't shoot with any range. He also missed 61 games over his first two seasons and isn't playing right now, so he's an injury risk.

Pass.

Can't see the forest for the trees. Good thing you aren't a GM. It's not that he Doesn't have the tools to play, he just hasn't played for the right team. He is still exactly who we knew he was when he was drafted third and people were screaming at LA for passing on him. He's a freak scorer that needs work. He's 21 years old.
Title: Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
Post by: celticsclay on October 31, 2017, 07:06:26 PM
I’d give the TPE for him. If nothing else he’s a tradeable contract at the deadline.

Do you feel this is true even with his option declined? Wouldn't that mean you could only trade him fro a fellow expiring?

Why so?

Well my understand was our DPE was only good for this year and we are at the salary cap. So we can only use it to take on salary this year. In my mind this meant that if we got Okafor with the DPE we could only trade him for another player that is expiring. Is that not true?

Edit: Saltlover seems to be explaining I am incorrect in this thinking, which I believe, but would be happy to hear why cause I don't understand it :)
Title: Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
Post by: JBcat on October 31, 2017, 07:15:10 PM
I’d give the TPE for him. If nothing else he’s a tradeable contract at the deadline.

I haven’t thought of that before but if it’s him or any other player we use with the new exception we have, we can flip it at the deadline maybe combining with another salary let’s say Smart or Morris for example, and get another real upgrade.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: BringToughnessBack on October 31, 2017, 07:19:56 PM
On a crappy team, he still cannot even crack the lineup. His numbers are abysmal, he has shown nothing to even get him in games. His d is invisible..I pass like the rest of the nba over the past two years. This is like groundhogs day...it seems like every few months they try to trade him. The only thing I am semi intrigued by is our Duke connection with him but even that will most likely not help. Hard for me to forget his street brawl as well.
Title: Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
Post by: mctyson on October 31, 2017, 07:25:54 PM
FWIW:  I would be interested in taking a flyer on Okafor, for the right price.

I think it's still way too early to completely give up on him.   He has size, wingspan and skills.  He didn't win that NCAA title by being a lousy basketball player.   I just think he has always been a total square peg since being picked by Philly for their round hole.   I think in the right environment and system he could be coached to be a good NBA player.

That said, due to the expiring nature of his contract and the risk that he cannot be salvaged. the price would have to be very reasonable.   Philly would be crazy to expect a top-half 1st round pick here.

I agree.  I'm not a fan of his game, but for something like a second rounder or two... why not take a flyer on him? We need depth at C anyway, worst case scenario is we pay him $5 million this year to sit on the bench (or at home if he pulls a Keith Bogans).  I wouldn't be a fan of cutting or trading someone to bring him in, but with the DPE, why not?
while i understand your points, i am still put off by his contract. if, as you say, he sits on the bench this year, then why pay him $5,000,000? if, as many people hope, he develops into a real player, then his salary demand will jump significantly and he will test the free agent market.

would the celtics be willing to pay for that?

he looks to be gone after this year in either scenario. so why get him to begin with?

1) There is a middle ground, where he plays reasonably well, but not enough to command a “huge” offer next year.  We would be allowed to sign him to a deal of up to $7.9 million (I think — might only be $6.3 million) which is more than the taxpayer MLE and near the full MLE.  Since few teams have cap room, he might be willing to resign for a season or two to get a bigger offer when more cap room is available and he has increased his value more by continuing to demonstrate his talent and ability to fit in the NBA.  Don’t think players aren’t aware of how Stevens helped utilize Turner into a major deal, and turned IT into a potential max player (his injury being the only thing that could prevent such an offer).

2) On the downside, if he still stinks, he’s an expiring contract that can be traded again at the deadline.  We’re actually quite short on salary filler, and an extra $5 million could go a long way if we try to swing a blockbuster.  We paid Zeller $8 million to be potential trade filler last year, so what’s $5 million?

This is a great point, and I would put Okafor in the Zeller category of players (has skill but probably shouldn't play).  The only downside is that Okafor might be a complete a$$ hat and you don't want to bring in those guys.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: PAOBoston on October 31, 2017, 08:33:04 PM
Just like Thomas Robinson, this guys will be out of the league soon.
Title: Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
Post by: saltlover on October 31, 2017, 08:39:58 PM
I’d give the TPE for him. If nothing else he’s a tradeable contract at the deadline.

Do you feel this is true even with his option declined? Wouldn't that mean you could only trade him fro a fellow expiring?

Why so?

Well my understand was our DPE was only good for this year and we are at the salary cap. So we can only use it to take on salary this year. In my mind this meant that if we got Okafor with the DPE we could only trade him for another player that is expiring. Is that not true?

Edit: Saltlover seems to be explaining I am incorrect in this thinking, which I believe, but would be happy to hear why cause I don't understand it :)

Once you acquire a player with the exception, you can do anything else with that player that the rules permit you to do with any player.  If you acquire an expiring player via trade, you can resign him with Bird rights as a free agent (this making the acquisition last longer than a year), or you can trade him for another player who’s not on an expiring deal.  Now, if you turn around and trade the guy in a week, you can expect the NBA to accuse you of circumventing the rules because you traded for him only for the purpose of trading for someone else not eligible with the DPE.  But if you wait two months and play the acquisition a bit, they won’t say anything, because you’re not forbidden from trading the guy you got with the DPE if something better comes along.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: ChillyWilly on October 31, 2017, 08:56:12 PM
He's been on the market for awhile now at this point the 6ers have killed his value.

I can't imagine he's out of the rotation because he's not talented I'm going to guess he tried to get by on his talent alone and at some point just mentally checked out when it wasn't working out.

We all know sometimes top picks just washout but how many 21 year olds washout after the rookie season he had? 17.5pt 7rbs 1.2blks
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Erik on November 01, 2017, 01:11:25 AM
He hasn't washed out. He can still score easily. Their complaint is that he doesn't play defense (like Kyrie didn't  ::) ) and doesn't rebound. If history is a precedent, he can fix those here.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: byennie on November 01, 2017, 01:58:29 AM
A big who doesn't rebound, doesn't play defense, and can't shoot with any range. He also missed 61 games over his first two seasons and isn't playing right now, so he's an injury risk.

Pass.

Can't see the forest for the trees. Good thing you aren't a GM. It's not that he Doesn't have the tools to play, he just hasn't played for the right team. He is still exactly who we knew he was when he was drafted third and people were screaming at LA for passing on him. He's a freak scorer that needs work. He's 21 years old.

You should hurry up and apply for a GM job, since you know better than every NBA GM who has refused to offer up a decent asset for Okafor, know better than Philly who won't even bother to pay him next year on a rookie deal instead letting him walk, and know better than every advanced stat created to measure actual effectiveness, in which he's arguably one of the worst players in the league.

Yeah, he'll get a couple more chances, and every 10 years we get a miracle like Hassan Whiteside, but right now his trajectory is basically Anthony Bennett. Spare us the condescension about how good *you* know he'd be outside of Philly. We all know he has physical tools or he wouldn't have gone top 3 in the draft. But, right now, he's a major bust and you can't just blame it all on Philadelphia.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: GreenEnvy on November 01, 2017, 02:51:19 AM
He's been on the market for awhile now at this point the 6ers have killed his value.

I can't imagine he's out of the rotation because he's not talented I'm going to guess he tried to get by on his talent alone and at some point just mentally checked out when it wasn't working out.

We all know sometimes top picks just washout but how many 21 year olds washout after the rookie season he had? 17.5pt 7rbs 1.2blks

Didn’t MCW have a great rookie season? Won RotY too. He’s barely getting playing time last time I saw him.

Sometimes you get talented players whose elite talent gets beat by their poor work ethic. The game passes them by. Sixers aren’t playing him for a reason, and it’s more than just he’s not a good basketball player right now.

I would rather hold the exception for someone else. I like watching Baynes get physical down low and hit that mid-range. I like seeing Theis all over the place. And of course what Horford is doing out there is great basketball, looking like an All-Star again.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: CFAN38 on November 01, 2017, 07:27:32 AM
QUESTION: If we were to acquire Okafor via trade using DPE.. would we be acquiring his Bird Rights or not (for a future extension)?

I could very well be wrong but I believe the Cs would receive bird rights to Okafor.

I am 100% all for trading a late first for Okafor. At that cost ( and the bust rate of most players drafted in the late 1st) why not take a game on a player who was once considered a generational big man talent talent? The Cs have the perfect combination of coaching staff, organizational stability, vet leadership and a young core to get the most out of Okafor. Not to mention that AL is possibly the big for Okafor to try to model his game after.

Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: stes on November 01, 2017, 07:46:14 AM
As much as I'd like for the C's to take a flyer on Okafor, I don't want us to give up anything of value for him. I think right now his value is below a 1st round pick, there were even some reports that he might be trying to get a buyout, so we could simply wait and get him without giving up anything.

I was wondering if we could use a DPE in a 3 team trade, something like:

to BOS: Okafor
to CLE: trade exception (tax relief)
to PHI: Frye + Cle 2nd (for shedding salary)

I don't know if CLE are ready to make tax saving moves or they'd rather keep Frye's contract for some bigger trade, but this could be a nice little trade that gives us Okafor's Bird Rights, Cavs some savings and Philly a late pick. But I am not even sure if it's possible under the CBA rules, I didn't find any specific law that would prohibit it, but I could see myself being wrong here.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Moranis on November 01, 2017, 08:14:31 AM
As much as I'd like for the C's to take a flyer on Okafor, I don't want us to give up anything of value for him. I think right now his value is below a 1st round pick, there were even some reports that he might be trying to get a buyout, so we could simply wait and get him without giving up anything.

I was wondering if we could use a DPE in a 3 team trade, something like:

to BOS: Okafor
to CLE: trade exception (tax relief)
to PHI: Frye + Cle 2nd (for shedding salary)

I don't know if CLE are ready to make tax saving moves or they'd rather keep Frye's contract for some bigger trade, but this could be a nice little trade that gives us Okafor's Bird Rights, Cavs some savings and Philly a late pick. But I am not even sure if it's possible under the CBA rules, I didn't find any specific law that would prohibit it, but I could see myself being wrong here.
I don't see why Cleveland wouldn't just take the flyer on Okafor themselves in that scenario.  They still save money, they get a back-up big, and get a look at him to see if he is worth keeping long term (which might make sense if James leaves and they blow it up next summer). 

I also don't see why Philly would acquire Frye.  He does nothing for them.

I'm all for acquiring Okafor, I just don't think this trade is all that plausible.  I also don't see any reason why Boston shouldn't be willing to throw in a 2nd round pick or even a late 1st (maybe make it top 25 protected or something like that and it converts to a 2nd or multiple 2nd's) and then just deal with Philly directly.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: stes on November 01, 2017, 09:09:42 AM
According to realgm the Irving trade, that shed $4,3M in Cavs salaries results in approx $27M in luxury tax savings. I imaging getting rid of $7M would lead to another substantial savings, since they have over $130M on payroll, so I could see some incentive. And the Sixers get a second rounder, which is better than a buyout. So I don’t agree that there’s no incentive for other teams involved, but I understand that it’s not much
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Erik on November 01, 2017, 09:27:41 AM
A big who doesn't rebound, doesn't play defense, and can't shoot with any range. He also missed 61 games over his first two seasons and isn't playing right now, so he's an injury risk.

Pass.

Can't see the forest for the trees. Good thing you aren't a GM. It's not that he Doesn't have the tools to play, he just hasn't played for the right team. He is still exactly who we knew he was when he was drafted third and people were screaming at LA for passing on him. He's a freak scorer that needs work. He's 21 years old.

You should hurry up and apply for a GM job, since you know better than every NBA GM who has refused to offer up a decent asset for Okafor, know better than Philly who won't even bother to pay him next year on a rookie deal instead letting him walk, and know better than every advanced stat created to measure actual effectiveness, in which he's arguably one of the worst players in the league.

Yeah, he'll get a couple more chances, and every 10 years we get a miracle like Hassan Whiteside, but right now his trajectory is basically Anthony Bennett. Spare us the condescension about how good *you* know he'd be outside of Philly. We all know he has physical tools or he wouldn't have gone top 3 in the draft. But, right now, he's a major bust and you can't just blame it all on Philadelphia.

Of course I can blame it all on Philly.

I think we can agree that he can score (hopefully). Where is the player development on defense? Are you telling me that someone with that kind of footwork and agility on offense can't play any defense?

Last season they claimed he needed to sit 6 weeks for an injury, they shut him down for 6 months to continue tanking.

They've bought so much into Embiid and basically ignored the kid for 2 years now so much that the relationship is severed and they refuse to play him regardless of how bad his replacements are.

His defensive strugglers are nothing new:

The biggest question marks around Okafor revolve around his play on the defensive end, where he was very inconsistent this season. He has the size, strength and length to be more than adequate if he puts his mind to it, and did show some flashes on this end of the floor from time to time, particularly as a post-defender. With that said, Okafor typically looked far too lackadaisical on this end of the floor, jogging back nonchalantly and looking downright lazy in stretches. He gives up deep post-position too often and isn't aggressive enough looking to body his man when he does receive the ball, possibly out of fear of getting in foul trouble. More concerning is how badly he struggles stepping outside of the paint in pick and roll situations, where he looks sluggish and slow-footed, showing poor awareness and being late to react on the fly. As gifted as he is offensively, he is almost just as poor on the other end of the floor. Duke was forced to play a very conservative style of defense on the pick and roll, with Okafor going way underneath screens to give himself a big enough cushion to recover and not get burned, which is certainly not ideal against the better guards he'll face in the NBA. He struggles hedging screens on the perimeter and certainly can't be asked to switch onto smaller players, as he already struggles in one on one situations against big men. Not being particularly explosive, he offers very little in the way of rim-protection, which is a concern in today's NBA game where practically every team's defensive plan revolves around having a big man in the paint who can serve as an anchor, clean up mistakes and not allow easy baskets. He's also not a very good defensive rebounder, posting just 6.5 per-40 minutes, one of the worst rates among big men in our Top-100. He looks somewhat lethargic here too, often standing and watching rather than putting a body on an opponent, and being a bit slow to react to loose balls coming off the glass. Okafor would be best suited playing next to a power forward who can defensive rebound, protect the rim, and space the floor from the 3-point line, which is as rare a player as you can find (Serge Ibaka, and…?). With that said, players in Okafor's mold who can have a half-court offense built around them thanks to an incredible wherewithal their his back to the basket are also rare and coveted specimens, although perhaps not as much in this era as they were in the past. Still, he's such a gifted offensive player that teams will certainly learn to live with his limitations and do their best to surround him with the right type of players to get the most out of him. At age 19, there is certainly time for him to work on his weaknesses, and he's already shown he can improve his conditioning and appears to be a highly coachable player as well. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jahlil-Okafor-6469/ ©DraftExpress

I blame the joke of an organization of the Sixers because they've absolutely ruined this kid's career due to lack of player development. While they were supposed to be working on his game, they were too busy working out how to lose.

I have no doubt in my mind that Danny and Brad can turn his career around because he was killing it on offense just a few weeks ago. He's not a bust.. he just has had 3 wasted years in that hellhole. So yeah, if you're a GM you look at his contract and say that it's a waste of time to trade anything of decent worth for him PLUS do 2 years of player development. But now that his price has reached rock bottom, it's time to swoop in and work our magic.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Vermont Green on November 01, 2017, 09:51:54 AM
In comparing Okafor to Bennett, I don't think that squares.  Bennett is a career 5 pts/4 rebs where as Okafor has career 15 pts/6 rebs.  Someone said this earlier.  Those are really good numbers for a 21 year old physical freak, not the numbers of someone who is about to wash out of the NBA.  I remember seeing him play a couple of times against the Celtics and being really impressed.  Clearly there is something wrong here that we all don't understand.

Who knows what Philly is looking for or how soon something may go down.  I can understand that the Celtics would like to use this disabled exemption thing on a player that can help them right now but that may not be so easy to do.  And even if they do find a decent vet on an expiring that they can get, how much does that really change the season?  Do we win another round in the playoffs?  Probably not unless we really catch lightning on this vet.

I would not be disappointed to see us use this on Okafor.  It matches up pretty well.  He would be competing for minutes with Semi Ojeleye and Daniel Theis and Yabusele.  I don't see the downside.  Do any of these guys really have more potential than Okafor?
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Sketch5 on November 01, 2017, 10:06:07 AM
People complain about his rebounding and defense, but look at Kyrie. Yes he's not a lock down defender, and he does get beat, but he's playing really solid D right now. Why? Stevens and his system. He gets guys to buy into it.

I don't think Okafor will become some kind of rebounding defensive monster over night or ever if he came here, but he can improve, and he's already gotten his body in better shape like Smart did, so the effort is there.

I's still only do it on the cheap, but this could be best case for Okafor if he does want to become a legit NBA player. Playing with Horford and Baynes would do wonders for the kid. I mean who's been mentoring him in Phili? You could see from day one he didn't want to be there, and it's shown on the court. But get him with a guy like Horford, who are similar in playing style where is more foot work than athletics(Horford is a slightly better athlete), he could be come a really solid player.

He played one game this year and played 22 min had 10 and 9 and had 2 blocks with it.  I'd be fine with giving up a late first round pick to see if he can be consistent with number like that.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: triboy16f on November 01, 2017, 10:14:37 AM
Already looking like a bust

80s-90s player that doesnt fit in todays game
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: D Dub on November 01, 2017, 10:16:43 AM
Pass.

He just doesn’t want it bad enough, acts as if he is entitled to his NBA career. 

Too much effort involved to get this guy to the level Baynes plays at now.  And for what?  So he and his agent can pretend they deserve an eight figure offer this summer.   No thanks, I’d rather he be someone else’s headache.   
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on November 01, 2017, 10:44:45 AM
Kid is what, 22 years old? I would take the chance.

He's obviously talented, and just needs to be motivated to be able to do everything else he needs to be a solid NBA player. Maybe we could provide that. There's so much potential in him not to take a chance on.

We have two guys in Horford and Baynes to teach him how to properly defend. We have a coaching staff that can help revive careers.

Seriously, why not?
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Smitty77 on November 01, 2017, 11:58:58 AM
A big who doesn't rebound, doesn't play defense, and can't shoot with any range. He also missed 61 games over his first two seasons and isn't playing right now, so he's an injury risk.

Pass.

Can't see the forest for the trees. Good thing you aren't a GM. It's not that he Doesn't have the tools to play, he just hasn't played for the right team. He is still exactly who we knew he was when he was drafted third and people were screaming at LA for passing on him. He's a freak scorer that needs work. He's 21 years old.

You should hurry up and apply for a GM job, since you know better than every NBA GM who has refused to offer up a decent asset for Okafor, know better than Philly who won't even bother to pay him next year on a rookie deal instead letting him walk, and know better than every advanced stat created to measure actual effectiveness, in which he's arguably one of the worst players in the league.

Yeah, he'll get a couple more chances, and every 10 years we get a miracle like Hassan Whiteside, but right now his trajectory is basically Anthony Bennett. Spare us the condescension about how good *you* know he'd be outside of Philly. We all know he has physical tools or he wouldn't have gone top 3 in the draft. But, right now, he's a major bust and you can't just blame it all on Philadelphia.

Perhaps he is just TRUSTING Coach K, who stands by him and believes that he is a good kid.  I think that Coach K, having recruited and COACHED him, might KNOW something MORE about his character than other GMs outside of Philly.

Smitty77
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Roy H. on November 01, 2017, 12:08:33 PM
He has formally asked for a buyout.

Interesting scenario: if he agreed to a buyout or was otherwise waived by Philly, we could use the DPE to claim him if desired.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: ChillyWilly on November 01, 2017, 12:16:00 PM
He's been on the market for awhile now at this point the 6ers have killed his value.

I can't imagine he's out of the rotation because he's not talented I'm going to guess he tried to get by on his talent alone and at some point just mentally checked out when it wasn't working out.

We all know sometimes top picks just washout but how many 21 year olds washout after the rookie season he had? 17.5pt 7rbs 1.2blks

Didn’t MCW have a great rookie season? Won RotY too. He’s barely getting playing time last time I saw him.

Sometimes you get talented players whose elite talent gets beat by their poor work ethic. The game passes them by. Sixers aren’t playing him for a reason, and it’s more than just he’s not a good basketball player right now.

I would rather hold the exception for someone else. I like watching Baynes get physical down low and hit that mid-range. I like seeing Theis all over the place. And of course what Horford is doing out there is great basketball, looking like an All-Star again.

I think you misunderstood my point. He's insanely talented and has proven it in his rookie season. The question is why did the 6ers write this guy completely off 2 seasons in. There has to be something more that we don't know. My guess is he doesn't put in the work and has no desire too.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Raul C on November 01, 2017, 12:27:21 PM
That could be it, or it could be that that organization is not a very good one and relies on plug and play talent as opposed to developing players.

Honestly, they don't seem to demonstrate good decision-making skills.

With his size, his age, and the skill he displayed under well-respected coaching at Duke I'd take a flyer on him.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Vermont Green on November 01, 2017, 12:41:28 PM
Kid is what, 22 years old? I would take the chance.

Seriously, why not?

21 actually.  Turns 22 on Dec 15.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Phantom255x on November 01, 2017, 12:43:43 PM
QUESTION: We have DPE AND Vet. minimum to use right?

In that case, I'd take a flier on Okafor and we still have one of the exceptions to use on a future buyout candidate if anyone good pops up.

Look at what CBS has done with Irving and his defense/passing. If anyone can maximize Okafor's potential at age 21, it's Brad...

Also people seem to forget that our depth behind Horford and Baynes isn't that great either.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: KGs Knee on November 01, 2017, 12:53:38 PM
I think Okafor can still be salvaged, the man clearly has talent. He also has some glaring flaws, but being in such a terrible situation I guess he never saw a path to reach his goals and didn't bother to work on those flaws.

I mean, Philly didn't exactly do right by Nerlens Noel either. The Sixers stupidly drafted elite big men prospects in three consecutive drafts. Only a franchise run by the biggest of idiots does that. It doesn't excuse Okafor from not working on his game, but it does set the stage for bringing out a person's worst traits. Sometime people like that need a better support system to bring out their best.

Which is why I would be content if the C's took a flier on the kid. Maybe a better structure and player development culture is all he needs to be the best version of himself he can be. It's worth the gamble if the cost is low enough, and at this point I'm betting Boston might be able to get him for nothing more than the DPE alone, without including any other assets.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Erik on November 01, 2017, 01:08:13 PM
He has formally asked for a buyout.

Interesting scenario: if he agreed to a buyout or was otherwise waived by Philly, we could use the DPE to claim him if desired.

I don't like the news. If he's bought out he can pick where he wants to be. He could very well pick a developing team that he can get lots of minutes. I'd rather give a couple second rounders and lock him up. He will learn to love us. 10 minutes a game on a team like ours or the Spurs is worth 20 elsewhere for his development.

I really believe in him. I'm always in awe when I watch him play and effortlessly score the ball and I say to myself [dang]it philly is finally going to realize what they have... and then they just bench him for scrubs.

You know what p---es me off the most about trust the process... it's not just gaming the system... they're ruining careers by benching talented players and ignoring development. I don't know how much more of this has to go on before the NBA does more than change management or change rules. Ownership can obviously be pulled... we've seen it already.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: PhoSita on November 01, 2017, 01:11:26 PM
Okafor would be a third stringer on the team right now, given the way Baynes and Theis have provided solid defense and rebounding, which is what the team asks of its backup bigs.


Jahlil should go to a team with some structure and good coaching in place that also needs some big man depth.  If I were his agent I'd want him playing 20 minutes a game or so on a team with no expectation of winning now but with a coach who will hold him accountable.

He should look at guys like Monroe, Kanter, Brook Lopez as models for how he can find a place in the league.  To do that he'll need to demonstrate he can be a good team player, first and foremost, and second he'll need to improve his defensive rebounding and/or his shooting.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: celticsclay on November 01, 2017, 01:21:36 PM
Can they just do the right thing for everyone involved here?

https://twitter.com/PompeyOnSixers/status/925756643891187713

I am Okafor I start making a really loud stink and talking to the media if they don't budge on this for a week. They are potentially costing him tens of millions of dollars over trying to get second round picks. At a certain point it is bad business.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: ChillyWilly on November 01, 2017, 01:23:54 PM
Can they just do the right thing for everyone involved here?

https://twitter.com/PompeyOnSixers/status/925756643891187713

I am Okafor I start making a really loud stink and talking to the media if they don't budge on this for a week. They are potentially costing him tens of millions of dollars over trying to get second round picks. At a certain point it is bad business.

I agree with you they are doing him dirty and costing him $$.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: celticsclay on November 01, 2017, 01:27:05 PM
Can they just do the right thing for everyone involved here?

https://twitter.com/PompeyOnSixers/status/925756643891187713

I am Okafor I start making a really loud stink and talking to the media if they don't budge on this for a week. They are potentially costing him tens of millions of dollars over trying to get second round picks. At a certain point it is bad business.

I agree with you they are doing him dirty and costing him $$.

One of the reasons they used for running Hinkie out of town was that he was terrible with player and agents relationships. This is getting to be a bigger mess than anything Hinkie did. He is their 3rd/4th string center.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: More Banners on November 01, 2017, 01:33:51 PM
Buyout of his rookie contract?  Isn't salary fixed by the rookie scale?  How could philly pay less than he's due on the rookie scale?  Is that allowed?  There may be no precedent for this.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Forza Juventus on November 01, 2017, 01:44:53 PM
I don't rate him and never did but I think trading for him would be better so you get his bird rights.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: KGs Knee on November 01, 2017, 01:54:35 PM
Buyout of his rookie contract?  Isn't salary fixed by the rookie scale?  How could philly pay less than he's due on the rookie scale?  Is that allowed?  There may be no precedent for this.

Any player can be bought out of any contract at any time. But if the team wants a 'discount' they need the players consent. So if Okafor is willing to agree to take less in order to secure a buyout of his current contract and immediately become a unrestricted free agent, that is his right to choose to do so.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: jpotter33 on November 01, 2017, 02:06:53 PM
http://twitter.com/PompeyOnSixers/status/925781419867205632

According to Pompey, Boston is the most likely landing spot for Okafor if he's bought out.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Forza Juventus on November 01, 2017, 02:10:38 PM
http://twitter.com/PompeyOnSixers/status/925781419867205632

According to Pompey, Boston is the most likely landing spot for Okafor if he's bought out.
If we sign him how does it work in the offseason? We won't be able to offer him above the mid level exception right? I feel like signing a young player is counter productive if your hands are tied keeping him long term.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: celticsclay on November 01, 2017, 02:14:14 PM
http://twitter.com/PompeyOnSixers/status/925781419867205632

According to Pompey, Boston is the most likely landing spot for Okafor if he's bought out.

The 76ers fans would really hate that because they view us as their biggest rival. That being said, it seems like most of them are becoming embarrassed about how BC has treated Okafor and just want him freed.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: celticsclay on November 01, 2017, 02:16:26 PM
https://twitter.com/JCameratoNBCS/status/925775959223078912
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Raul C on November 01, 2017, 02:22:55 PM
Is it me or does there seem to be more smoke surrounding Okafor/Celtics than any other team?

I don't imagine anyone could really know for sure so are they just playing the safe bet?
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Forza Juventus on November 01, 2017, 02:25:03 PM
There are a lot of poorly run teams in the nba. Philly handled this situation and Noel as bad as you can possibly handle it. The Fultz situation is a bad look too. For a team that supposedly cares so much about their ""assets" they sure don't show it. And Simmons and Embiid were obvious picks at the time so that wasn't exactly expert management.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Mike Pemulis on November 01, 2017, 02:40:25 PM
Dunno if they've been mentioned but the Bulls? Played high school ball in Chi. Might help resolve the Mirotic/Portis problem. I'd take him as our 15th man. Good insurance if a Big goes down, he'll be forced to improve or leave, and he's around some Duke guys.
Other possible fits: Portland (good Nurkic insurance), Atlanta (lack talented bigs). 
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: seancally on November 01, 2017, 02:50:12 PM
http://twitter.com/PompeyOnSixers/status/925781419867205632

According to Pompey, Boston is the most likely landing spot for Okafor if he's bought out.

Yeah and the Sixers don't want to help a division rival.

Then again...... they can't find a reason to play the guy. So in their mind, how would he help us?

What a bunch of morons in Philly.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: kozlodoev on November 01, 2017, 02:57:29 PM
Dunno if they've been mentioned but the Bulls? Played high school ball in Chi. Might help resolve the Mirotic/Portis problem. I'd take him as our 15th man. Good insurance if a Big goes down, he'll be forced to improve or leave, and he's around some Duke guys.
Other possible fits: Portland (good Nurkic insurance), Atlanta (lack talented bigs).
How, by punching out both of them? :P
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Big333223 on November 01, 2017, 02:57:43 PM
It seems like a lot of the pro-Jahlil posts come down to "He'll be different when he's away from the Sixers."

But just because the Sixers are a dysfunctional organization does not mean Okafor isn't also a headcase. He's an incredibly smooth offensive player who has never shown an aptitude to be good at any other aspect of basketball either in the pros or college. Where is the evidence that he'll get better at the things he's bad at if he's away from the Sixers?
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Moranis on November 01, 2017, 03:03:59 PM
It seems like a lot of the pro-Jahlil posts come down to "He'll be different when he's away from the Sixers."

But just because the Sixers are a dysfunctional organization does not mean Okafor isn't also a headcase. He's an incredibly smooth offensive player who has never shown an aptitude to be good at any other aspect of basketball either in the pros or college. Where is the evidence that he'll get better at the things he's bad at if he's away from the Sixers?
The general thought is, that a player can't be that offensively talented, both with moves and skill, that he can't be taught to be at least a decent defender.  How can he have such brilliant footwork, hands, post-moves, etc. and not be able to translate that defensively?  How can have such good shooting touch down low and not be able to translate that out to deeper range?  He isn't quick and never will be, but he pretty clearly has talent, the rest can be taught.

He also isn't as bad a rebounder as he has been made out to be.  He also has shown some shot blocking ability. 
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: celticsclay on November 01, 2017, 03:06:02 PM
It seems like a lot of the pro-Jahlil posts come down to "He'll be different when he's away from the Sixers."

But just because the Sixers are a dysfunctional organization does not mean Okafor isn't also a headcase. He's an incredibly smooth offensive player who has never shown an aptitude to be good at any other aspect of basketball either in the pros or college. Where is the evidence that he'll get better at the things he's bad at if he's away from the Sixers?
The general thought is, that a player can't be that offensively talented, both with moves and skill, that he can't be taught to be at least a decent defender.  How can he have such brilliant footwork, hands, post-moves, etc. and not be able to translate that defensively?  How can have such good shooting touch down low and not be able to translate that out to deeper range?  He isn't quick and never will be, but he pretty clearly has talent, the rest can be taught.

He also isn't as bad a rebounder as he has been made out to be.  He also has shown some shot blocking ability.

When people were proposing trading a Brooklyn pick for him two years ago or far Marcus Smart I was vehemently arguing against them because of these limitations. Now that the cost will be just salary or a second round pick, I do think it is worth seeing what CBS could teach him for the Celtics. Lets not forget what he was able to do with Jordan Crawford.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: seancally on November 01, 2017, 03:06:44 PM
There's no evidence, outside whatever anyone wants to read into his comments, interviews, etc. which are all pretty normal-sounding. He also is a Coach K / Duke product, which means... something.

I see similarities between Jah and Boogie Cousins (with an obvious discrepancy in ability, though I think Okafor could one day be, like, 75-80% of Cousins). But Okafor is 21 years old - giving him plenty of time to be molded and taught how to be a good professional young man. Also..... he would cost this team basically nothing - no reason to keep him if he proves a mistake, but offers the possibility of adding something on the court in spurts.

Finally, I believe in Brad more than Danny or anyone else. I'm convinced Stevens gets a say in decisions like these and while Danny has the last word I bet Brad has some sway. If CBS thinks he can add something, I'm in.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Big333223 on November 01, 2017, 03:21:50 PM
It seems like a lot of the pro-Jahlil posts come down to "He'll be different when he's away from the Sixers."

But just because the Sixers are a dysfunctional organization does not mean Okafor isn't also a headcase. He's an incredibly smooth offensive player who has never shown an aptitude to be good at any other aspect of basketball either in the pros or college. Where is the evidence that he'll get better at the things he's bad at if he's away from the Sixers?
The general thought is, that a player can't be that offensively talented, both with moves and skill, that he can't be taught to be at least a decent defender.  How can he have such brilliant footwork, hands, post-moves, etc. and not be able to translate that defensively?  How can have such good shooting touch down low and not be able to translate that out to deeper range?  He isn't quick and never will be, but he pretty clearly has talent, the rest can be taught.

He also isn't as bad a rebounder as he has been made out to be.  He also has shown some shot blocking ability.

When people were proposing trading a Brooklyn pick for him two years ago or far Marcus Smart I was vehemently arguing against them because of these limitations. Now that the cost will be just salary or a second round pick, I do think it is worth seeing what CBS could teach him for the Celtics. Lets not forget what he was able to do with Jordan Crawford.
This is the other thing I keep seeing. Brad Stevens being a good coach is not a reason to target Okafor. It's possible that Stevens can help Okafor grow as a player but why is that a reason for the Celtics to not target someone else, who is already better at the things the team needs and let Stevens work with that guy, instead?
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: seancally on November 01, 2017, 03:25:30 PM
It seems like a lot of the pro-Jahlil posts come down to "He'll be different when he's away from the Sixers."

But just because the Sixers are a dysfunctional organization does not mean Okafor isn't also a headcase. He's an incredibly smooth offensive player who has never shown an aptitude to be good at any other aspect of basketball either in the pros or college. Where is the evidence that he'll get better at the things he's bad at if he's away from the Sixers?
The general thought is, that a player can't be that offensively talented, both with moves and skill, that he can't be taught to be at least a decent defender.  How can he have such brilliant footwork, hands, post-moves, etc. and not be able to translate that defensively?  How can have such good shooting touch down low and not be able to translate that out to deeper range?  He isn't quick and never will be, but he pretty clearly has talent, the rest can be taught.

He also isn't as bad a rebounder as he has been made out to be.  He also has shown some shot blocking ability.

When people were proposing trading a Brooklyn pick for him two years ago or far Marcus Smart I was vehemently arguing against them because of these limitations. Now that the cost will be just salary or a second round pick, I do think it is worth seeing what CBS could teach him for the Celtics. Lets not forget what he was able to do with Jordan Crawford.
This is the other thing I keep seeing. Brad Stevens being a good coach is not a reason to target Okafor. It's possible that Stevens can help Okafor grow as a player but why is that a reason for the Celtics to not target someone else, who is already better at the things the team needs and let Stevens work with that guy, instead?

Feel free to suggest a player who:

A) Fills the criteria you outline, and
B) Works under the restrictions of the DPE, and
C) Wouldn't cost the team any other noteworthy assets.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Moranis on November 01, 2017, 03:28:13 PM
It seems like a lot of the pro-Jahlil posts come down to "He'll be different when he's away from the Sixers."

But just because the Sixers are a dysfunctional organization does not mean Okafor isn't also a headcase. He's an incredibly smooth offensive player who has never shown an aptitude to be good at any other aspect of basketball either in the pros or college. Where is the evidence that he'll get better at the things he's bad at if he's away from the Sixers?
The general thought is, that a player can't be that offensively talented, both with moves and skill, that he can't be taught to be at least a decent defender.  How can he have such brilliant footwork, hands, post-moves, etc. and not be able to translate that defensively?  How can have such good shooting touch down low and not be able to translate that out to deeper range?  He isn't quick and never will be, but he pretty clearly has talent, the rest can be taught.

He also isn't as bad a rebounder as he has been made out to be.  He also has shown some shot blocking ability.

When people were proposing trading a Brooklyn pick for him two years ago or far Marcus Smart I was vehemently arguing against them because of these limitations. Now that the cost will be just salary or a second round pick, I do think it is worth seeing what CBS could teach him for the Celtics. Lets not forget what he was able to do with Jordan Crawford.
This is the other thing I keep seeing. Brad Stevens being a good coach is not a reason to target Okafor. It's possible that Stevens can help Okafor grow as a player but why is that a reason for the Celtics to not target someone else, who is already better at the things the team needs and let Stevens work with that guy, instead?
I would argue that Okafor provides a skill that no one else on the team provides though.  There isn't a single Celtic that you could consistently feed the ball to in the paint and get a basket.  And while the game has definitely gone further away from the basket, being able to score in the paint is still something a team needs every once in awhile.  Okafor can put the ball in the hoop if you get it to him in position.  He also is credible enough from the line, that he can play in crunch time (if needed) and can't just be fouled as a defensive strategy. 
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: seancally on November 01, 2017, 03:30:40 PM
It seems like a lot of the pro-Jahlil posts come down to "He'll be different when he's away from the Sixers."

But just because the Sixers are a dysfunctional organization does not mean Okafor isn't also a headcase. He's an incredibly smooth offensive player who has never shown an aptitude to be good at any other aspect of basketball either in the pros or college. Where is the evidence that he'll get better at the things he's bad at if he's away from the Sixers?
The general thought is, that a player can't be that offensively talented, both with moves and skill, that he can't be taught to be at least a decent defender.  How can he have such brilliant footwork, hands, post-moves, etc. and not be able to translate that defensively?  How can have such good shooting touch down low and not be able to translate that out to deeper range?  He isn't quick and never will be, but he pretty clearly has talent, the rest can be taught.

He also isn't as bad a rebounder as he has been made out to be.  He also has shown some shot blocking ability.

When people were proposing trading a Brooklyn pick for him two years ago or far Marcus Smart I was vehemently arguing against them because of these limitations. Now that the cost will be just salary or a second round pick, I do think it is worth seeing what CBS could teach him for the Celtics. Lets not forget what he was able to do with Jordan Crawford.
This is the other thing I keep seeing. Brad Stevens being a good coach is not a reason to target Okafor. It's possible that Stevens can help Okafor grow as a player but why is that a reason for the Celtics to not target someone else, who is already better at the things the team needs and let Stevens work with that guy, instead?
I would argue that Okafor provides a skill that no one else on the team provides though.  There isn't a single Celtic that you could consistently feed the ball to in the paint and get a basket.  And while the game has definitely gone further away from the basket, being able to score in the paint is still something a team needs every once in awhile.  Okafor can put the ball in the hoop if you get it to him in position.  He also is credible enough from the line, that he can play in crunch time (if needed) and can't just be fouled as a defensive strategy.

Right - plus he will be motivated to play his tail off after basically the league has written him off and he's coming up on free agency.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Ilikesports17 on November 01, 2017, 03:43:40 PM
It seems like a lot of the pro-Jahlil posts come down to "He'll be different when he's away from the Sixers."

But just because the Sixers are a dysfunctional organization does not mean Okafor isn't also a headcase. He's an incredibly smooth offensive player who has never shown an aptitude to be good at any other aspect of basketball either in the pros or college. Where is the evidence that he'll get better at the things he's bad at if he's away from the Sixers?
The general thought is, that a player can't be that offensively talented, both with moves and skill, that he can't be taught to be at least a decent defender.  How can he have such brilliant footwork, hands, post-moves, etc. and not be able to translate that defensively?  How can have such good shooting touch down low and not be able to translate that out to deeper range?  He isn't quick and never will be, but he pretty clearly has talent, the rest can be taught.

He also isn't as bad a rebounder as he has been made out to be.  He also has shown some shot blocking ability.

When people were proposing trading a Brooklyn pick for him two years ago or far Marcus Smart I was vehemently arguing against them because of these limitations. Now that the cost will be just salary or a second round pick, I do think it is worth seeing what CBS could teach him for the Celtics. Lets not forget what he was able to do with Jordan Crawford.
This is the other thing I keep seeing. Brad Stevens being a good coach is not a reason to target Okafor. It's possible that Stevens can help Okafor grow as a player but why is that a reason for the Celtics to not target someone else, who is already better at the things the team needs and let Stevens work with that guy, instead?
Because I think Jah has more untapped potential than almost anyone else out there.
Title: Okafor wants a buyout or trade... If traded, what cost would be acceptable?
Post by: Alleyoopster on November 01, 2017, 03:53:42 PM
If he's not bought out....what would you pay to get him?

https://www.celticsblog.com/2017/11/1/16593402/pompey-boston-celtics-are-most-likely-destination-for-jahlil-okafor-if-bought-out
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: konkmv on November 01, 2017, 03:58:17 PM
In brad I trust
Title: Re: Okafor wants a buyout or trade... If traded, what cost would be acceptable?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on November 01, 2017, 04:01:10 PM
If he's not bought out....what would you pay to get him?

https://www.celticsblog.com/2017/11/1/16593402/pompey-boston-celtics-are-most-likely-destination-for-jahlil-okafor-if-bought-out


I would take a chance .  But ....I d leave it up to DA to make the what is he worth call.  The kid needs some serious adult attention and guidance
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: SHAQATTACK on November 01, 2017, 04:03:21 PM
It seems like a lot of the pro-Jahlil posts come down to "He'll be different when he's away from the Sixers."

But just because the Sixers are a dysfunctional organization does not mean Okafor isn't also a headcase. He's an incredibly smooth offensive player who has never shown an aptitude to be good at any other aspect of basketball either in the pros or college. Where is the evidence that he'll get better at the things he's bad at if he's away from the Sixers?
The general thought is, that a player can't be that offensively talented, both with moves and skill, that he can't be taught to be at least a decent defender.  How can he have such brilliant footwork, hands, post-moves, etc. and not be able to translate that defensively?  How can have such good shooting touch down low and not be able to translate that out to deeper range?  He isn't quick and never will be, but he pretty clearly has talent, the rest can be taught.

He also isn't as bad a rebounder as he has been made out to be.  He also has shown some shot blocking ability.

When people were proposing trading a Brooklyn pick for him two years ago or far Marcus Smart I was vehemently arguing against them because of these limitations. Now that the cost will be just salary or a second round pick, I do think it is worth seeing what CBS could teach him for the Celtics. Lets not forget what he was able to do with Jordan Crawford.
This is the other thing I keep seeing. Brad Stevens being a good coach is not a reason to target Okafor. It's possible that Stevens can help Okafor grow as a player but why is that a reason for the Celtics to not target someone else, who is already better at the things the team needs and let Stevens work with that guy, instead?
I would argue that Okafor provides a skill that no one else on the team provides though.  There isn't a single Celtic that you could consistently feed the ball to in the paint and get a basket.  And while the game has definitely gone further away from the basket, being able to score in the paint is still something a team needs every once in awhile.  Okafor can put the ball in the hoop if you get it to him in position.  He also is credible enough from the line, that he can play in crunch time (if needed) and can't just be fouled as a defensive strategy.

Agree with this .  Why he is worth a low risk pick or such.   He needs adult supervision.
Title: Re: Okafor wants a buyout or trade... If traded, what cost would be acceptable?
Post by: PhoSita on November 01, 2017, 04:03:53 PM
Seeing as it's most likely a one year rental, I don't think it'd make sense to give up any assets for him.

Title: Re: Okafor wants a buyout or trade... If traded, what cost would be acceptable?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on November 01, 2017, 04:09:00 PM
The kid can get buckets in the paint .

Might come in handy
Title: Re: Okafor wants a buyout or trade... If traded, what cost would be acceptable?
Post by: ThePaintedArea on November 01, 2017, 04:11:21 PM
If he's not bought out....what would you pay to get him?

https://www.celticsblog.com/2017/11/1/16593402/pompey-boston-celtics-are-most-likely-destination-for-jahlil-okafor-if-bought-out

Nothing - meaning, i wouldn't get him at any price.

While the price is not going to be high, he'd take up a roster spot.

I suppose that he'll wind up in the league somewhere, but it won't be on the Celtics.

What would he add? I don't see a reason to sign him, no matter the price.
Title: Re: Okafor wants a buyout or trade... If traded, what cost would be acceptable?
Post by: Moranis on November 01, 2017, 04:15:45 PM
Seeing as it's most likely a one year rental, I don't think it'd make sense to give up any assets for him.
why would you assume he would be a 1 year rental?
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: More Banners on November 01, 2017, 04:21:39 PM
Two words: Michael Olowakandi. I guess adding 2.0 would be 3 words?  Anyway, former high pick, immensely talented post player, great hands and touch with the ball, and still gave up more than he got. Bounced around the league (including here) on his way out, repeatedly signed to minimum deals just in case magic happened and he became anything other than a liability. It just was not to be.
Title: Re: Okafor wants a buyout or trade... If traded, what cost would be acceptable?
Post by: saltlover on November 01, 2017, 04:39:07 PM
Seeing as it's most likely a one year rental, I don't think it'd make sense to give up any assets for him.
why would you assume he would be a 1 year rental?

1) He’s on an expiring
2) If traded for, there would be limitations on the contract he could be offered next year.
3) We will be very tight/in the luxury tax next year, and keeping Smart will presumably be the first priority.  That negotiation could drag out a bit, by which time Okafor could sign elsewhere.
4) We currently have 11 players under contract for next season, potentially 2 1st rounders, and again, Smart should get first priority.  That could leave one roster spot.

There are certainly scenarios where he stays, but they require a combination of multiple events, including him playing well enough to warrant staying but not so well that he prices himself out of the limited deal that can be offered, the Lakers pick not conveying, Smart either taking the qualifying offer or leaving in free agency, and Baynes leaving in free agency.  It’s possibel he stays, but the base assumption/expectation should be that he’s a one-year rental, and presumably that’s the hang up on the Celtics trading for him, since the interest is obvious.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: seancally on November 01, 2017, 04:43:34 PM
Two words: Michael Olowakandi. I guess adding 2.0 would be 3 words?  Anyway, former high pick, immensely talented post player, great hands and touch with the ball, and still gave up more than he got. Bounced around the league (including here) on his way out, repeatedly signed to minimum deals just in case magic happened and he became anything other than a liability. It just was not to be.

Olowokandi's best season came for the Clips in 2001. Here were notable stats:

11.1 ppg, 1,8 blocks, 8.9 rbs...
62% FT, 43% FG on 11 attempts per game...

as a 26-year-old who started and played 32 minutes per game for a bad team.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say: I'd put money on Okafor ending up being a more valuable and enduring NBA player than Olowokandi. PROVIDED Okafor gets into a decent situation.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: CelticsElite on November 01, 2017, 04:51:01 PM
Okafor wants out

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21251976/jahlil-okafor-wants-philadelphia-76ers-trade-offer-buyout

"Honestly, I did not want them to pick up my option," Okafor said at the team's shootaround Wednesday. "This is my life. This is my career, and I'm not getting an opportunity here, which is fine. The team looks great and I'm not a part of that. I want the team to do great things, but at the same time I want to play."
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: celticsclay on November 01, 2017, 04:51:30 PM
Two words: Michael Olowakandi. I guess adding 2.0 would be 3 words?  Anyway, former high pick, immensely talented post player, great hands and touch with the ball, and still gave up more than he got. Bounced around the league (including here) on his way out, repeatedly signed to minimum deals just in case magic happened and he became anything other than a liability. It just was not to be.

Olowokandi's best season came for the Clips in 2001. Here were notable stats:

11.1 ppg, 1,8 blocks, 8.9 rbs...
62% FT, 43% FG on 11 attempts per game...

as a 26-year-old who started and played 32 minutes per game for a bad team.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say: I'd put money on Okafor ending up being a more valuable and enduring NBA player than Olowokandi. PROVIDED Okafor gets into a decent situation.

I don't know. Okafor can't beat our Amir Johnson for minutes right now. He could certainly turn it around, but he could also go the way of Thomas Robinson who right now is out of the league at 26. Interesting note about Robinson is he actually put up pretty huge numbers in his one stint in philadelphia averaging nearly 9 points and 8 rebounds in just 16 minutes!
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: celticsclay on November 01, 2017, 04:59:32 PM
Pretty funny that Okafor understand his trade value better than BC has the last few years: "There were definitely deals on the table," he said. "Bryan just didn't deem they were fair, which I understand, I'm a No. 3 pick [in 2015]. But at the same time, that's what teams were offering. Me and my agent started getting the hint they weren't going to offer more, so it was whether you were going to make a move on it or not, and you waited too long and now I'm here today."
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: seancally on November 01, 2017, 05:03:43 PM
Two words: Michael Olowakandi. I guess adding 2.0 would be 3 words?  Anyway, former high pick, immensely talented post player, great hands and touch with the ball, and still gave up more than he got. Bounced around the league (including here) on his way out, repeatedly signed to minimum deals just in case magic happened and he became anything other than a liability. It just was not to be.

Olowokandi's best season came for the Clips in 2001. Here were notable stats:

11.1 ppg, 1,8 blocks, 8.9 rbs...
62% FT, 43% FG on 11 attempts per game...

as a 26-year-old who started and played 32 minutes per game for a bad team.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say: I'd put money on Okafor ending up being a more valuable and enduring NBA player than Olowokandi. PROVIDED Okafor gets into a decent situation.

I don't know. Okafor can't beat our Amir Johnson for minutes right now. He could certainly turn it around, but he could also go the way of Thomas Robinson who right now is out of the league at 26. Interesting note about Robinson is he actually put up pretty huge numbers in his one stint in philadelphia averaging nearly 9 points and 8 rebounds in just 16 minutes!

The oft-maligned Amir Johnson is also a longtime plus-minus darling and a veteran presence, while Philly had already made up its mind on Okafor's role when they signed Amir, so no surprise there. But I get your point.

If anything, for the sake of the potential for a young, talented player, I hope Boston picks him up for nothing, Brad turns him into a serviceable big or better, and he picks up a contract somewhere next season on the right path.

One underrated negative of the current lottery process is that talented players go to some awful situations. Poorly managed teams get high picks and squander player talent. I want to see talented players thrive, but some of them need strong leadership and mentorship from the get go.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: CelticsElite on November 01, 2017, 05:06:00 PM
I see the 76ers buying him out. Hard to see anyone trading anything of value for a rental of this guy
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: footey on November 01, 2017, 05:10:57 PM
Okafor is a savant inside old school scorer. He has incredible footwork, can post up and score easy buckets.  That is a lost art, and, while it is no longer a highly demanded skill in the spacing era of the NBA, has value.

Baynes would be a good mentor for Okafor to develop his game. 
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on November 01, 2017, 05:18:16 PM
If Brad can somehow get his hands on Jalil this will be good for us and him.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: tazzmaniac on November 01, 2017, 05:27:42 PM
Pretty funny that Okafor understand his trade value better than BC has the last few years: "There were definitely deals on the table," he said. "Bryan just didn't deem they were fair, which I understand, I'm a No. 3 pick [in 2015]. But at the same time, that's what teams were offering. Me and my agent started getting the hint they weren't going to offer more, so it was whether you were going to make a move on it or not, and you waited too long and now I'm here today."
It is funny how Colangelo, the basketball guy, keeps bungling these situations.  He could have used the cover of the Fultz trade to move Okafor during the draft in a fake 1st deal like the Noel trade.  I'm surprised an Okafor for Portis and a 2nd didn't get done. 
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: tazzmaniac on November 01, 2017, 05:42:49 PM
Two words: Michael Olowakandi. I guess adding 2.0 would be 3 words?  Anyway, former high pick, immensely talented post player, great hands and touch with the ball, and still gave up more than he got. Bounced around the league (including here) on his way out, repeatedly signed to minimum deals just in case magic happened and he became anything other than a liability. It just was not to be.

Olowokandi's best season came for the Clips in 2001. Here were notable stats:

11.1 ppg, 1,8 blocks, 8.9 rbs...
62% FT, 43% FG on 11 attempts per game...

as a 26-year-old who started and played 32 minutes per game for a bad team.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say: I'd put money on Okafor ending up being a more valuable and enduring NBA player than Olowokandi. PROVIDED Okafor gets into a decent situation.

I don't know. Okafor can't beat our Amir Johnson for minutes right now. He could certainly turn it around, but he could also go the way of Thomas Robinson who right now is out of the league at 26. Interesting note about Robinson is he actually put up pretty huge numbers in his one stint in philadelphia averaging nearly 9 points and 8 rebounds in just 16 minutes!

The oft-maligned Amir Johnson is also a longtime plus-minus darling and a veteran presence, while Philly had already made up its mind on Okafor's role when they signed Amir, so no surprise there. But I get your point.

If anything, for the sake of the potential for a young, talented player, I hope Boston picks him up for nothing, Brad turns him into a serviceable big or better, and he picks up a contract somewhere next season on the right path.

One underrated negative of the current lottery process is that talented players go to some awful situations. Poorly managed teams get high picks and squander player talent. I want to see talented players thrive, but some of them need strong leadership and mentorship from the get go.
Who are all these talented players that get squandered on poorly managed teams?  Those players don't just disappear.  They go to other teams and generally continue to play poorly or at least below their draft status.  Maybe Okafor finds a better situation but he's still going to have the same limitations (bad defense, below average rebounder, non-versatile offense). 


Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: More Banners on November 01, 2017, 05:50:15 PM
Two words: Michael Olowakandi. I guess adding 2.0 would be 3 words?  Anyway, former high pick, immensely talented post player, great hands and touch with the ball, and still gave up more than he got. Bounced around the league (including here) on his way out, repeatedly signed to minimum deals just in case magic happened and he became anything other than a liability. It just was not to be.

Olowokandi's best season came for the Clips in 2001. Here were notable stats:

11.1 ppg, 1,8 blocks, 8.9 rbs...
62% FT, 43% FG on 11 attempts per game...

as a 26-year-old who started and played 32 minutes per game for a bad team.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say: I'd put money on Okafor ending up being a more valuable and enduring NBA player than Olowokandi. PROVIDED Okafor gets into a decent situation.

The thing is, they used to say Kandi would be different in a decent situation, too.

Checking out the numbers, they're very similar players. Okafor always got more shots/usage, but both could rebound, block 1-2 shots/gm, and score in the low post. And absolutely blew chunks on defense. Not sure either can pass particularly well.

Just not expecting magic to happen where he becomes a different player. He could hang around the league for a while like Kandi, but I'm not expecting him to suddenly be a contributor on a winning team.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: tazzmaniac on November 01, 2017, 05:58:22 PM
If Brad can somehow get his hands on Jalil this will be good for us and him.
Why?  Brad couldn't do anything with Young or Sully. 

Coach Brown is a player development coach.  Covington, an undrafted player, has developed into a good starting SF.  McConnell, an undrafted player, is becoming a solid backup PG.  Okafor had plenty of opportunity with the Sixers.  The Sixers moved Noel to PF for most of a season to allow Okafor opportunity to succeed at center.  They tried the same thing with Embiid/Okafor combo for a few games last season. 
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on November 01, 2017, 06:03:10 PM
If Brad can somehow get his hands on Jalil this will be good for us and him.
Why?  Brad couldn't do anything with Young or Sully. 

Coach Brown is a player development coach.  Covington, an undrafted player, has developed into a good starting SF.  McConnell, an undrafted player, is becoming a solid backup PG.  Okafor had plenty of opportunity with the Sixers.  The Sixers moved Noel to PF for most of a season to allow Okafor opportunity to succeed at center.  They tried the same thing with Embiid/Okafor combo for a few games last season.

I just have a feeling that if Jalil Okafor ends up in BOS he'll thrive. Don't ask me how I just know it.

Perhaps it's the team's chemistry and winning culture. Perhaps it's Brad Stevens. Perhaps it's the Banners. Perhaps it's Gino...or Celtic Mystique.

I'm not counting the kid out.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: cltc5 on November 01, 2017, 06:14:24 PM
While maybe not fitting in the system or current flow of the MBA offense...you do not scoff at the #3 pick who is 21, a big, played for coach k, could play for Brad, and has potential to grow.  You'd be foolish not to try.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: RJ87 on November 01, 2017, 06:17:55 PM
If Brad can somehow get his hands on Jalil this will be good for us and him.
Why?  Brad couldn't do anything with Young or Sully. 

Coach Brown is a player development coach.  Covington, an undrafted player, has developed into a good starting SF.  McConnell, an undrafted player, is becoming a solid backup PG.  Okafor had plenty of opportunity with the Sixers.  The Sixers moved Noel to PF for most of a season to allow Okafor opportunity to succeed at center.  They tried the same thing with Embiid/Okafor combo for a few games last season.

I just have a feeling that if Jalil Okafor ends up in BOS he'll thrive. Don't ask me how I just know it.

Perhaps it's the team's chemistry and winning culture. Perhaps it's Brad Stevens. Perhaps it's the Banners. Perhaps it's Gino...or Celtic Mystique.

I'm not counting the kid out.

And Young and Sully are different - Okafor used this past offseason to actually lose weight, adapting to a vegan lifestyle. That effort alone puts him in a class above Sully, and Young to a point. The guy showed up to camp in the best shape of his career because he put in the work, they  give a little burn and he looks improved. Philly's response? Have their coach publicly declare he's not in the rotation.

Even after that, he's handling it pretty well. He seems to see the writing's on the wall - he's not a part of the plan in Philly, still wishing the team well but wanting an opportunity. Isn't that what you what guys to do? Want to play? If he just sat on a bench collecting his checks, he'd be a malcontent.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: mctyson on November 01, 2017, 06:19:15 PM
I was at Okafor's first game in the NBA when he torched the Celtics out of the gate and completely dominated the first quarter.  I think he was 7-7 starting out.  He was so NBA ready on the offensive end.

I cannot believe he has fallen this far. 
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: cltc5 on November 01, 2017, 06:21:50 PM
If Brad can somehow get his hands on Jalil this will be good for us and him.
Why?  Brad couldn't do anything with Young or Sully. 

Coach Brown is a player development coach.  Covington, an undrafted player, has developed into a good starting SF.  McConnell, an undrafted player, is becoming a solid backup PG.  Okafor had plenty of opportunity with the Sixers.  The Sixers moved Noel to PF for most of a season to allow Okafor opportunity to succeed at center.  They tried the same thing with Embiid/Okafor combo for a few games last season.

Dude apples and oranges
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: cltc5 on November 01, 2017, 06:22:56 PM
I was at Okafor's first game in the NBA when he torched the Celtics out of the gate and completely dominated the first quarter.  I think he was 7-7 starting out.  He was so NBA ready on the offensive end.

I cannot believe he has fallen this far.

He hasn't.  He wants to ****ing play and he's on a team that won't let him.  I'd be p---ed and not want to make an effort either
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: tazzmaniac on November 01, 2017, 06:35:43 PM
If Brad can somehow get his hands on Jalil this will be good for us and him.
Why?  Brad couldn't do anything with Young or Sully. 

Coach Brown is a player development coach.  Covington, an undrafted player, has developed into a good starting SF.  McConnell, an undrafted player, is becoming a solid backup PG.  Okafor had plenty of opportunity with the Sixers.  The Sixers moved Noel to PF for most of a season to allow Okafor opportunity to succeed at center.  They tried the same thing with Embiid/Okafor combo for a few games last season.

I just have a feeling that if Jalil Okafor ends up in BOS he'll thrive. Don't ask me how I just know it.

Perhaps it's the team's chemistry and winning culture. Perhaps it's Brad Stevens. Perhaps it's the Banners. Perhaps it's Gino...or Celtic Mystique.

I'm not counting the kid out.

And Young and Sully are different - Okafor used this past offseason to actually lose weight, adapting to a vegan lifestyle. That effort alone puts him in a class above Sully, and Young to a point. The guy showed up to camp in the best shape of his career because he put in the work, they  give a little burn and he looks improved. Philly's response? Have their coach publicly declare he's not in the rotation.

Even after that, he's handling it pretty well. He seems to see the writing's on the wall - he's not a part of the plan in Philly, still wishing the team well but wanting an opportunity. Isn't that what you what guys to do? Want to play? If he just sat on a bench collecting his checks, he'd be a malcontent.
Okafor has made some changes which will hopefully help him succeed.  However that doesn't mean that he deserves to be in the rotation.  Philly is trying to win and make the playoffs.  It says something that Okafor can't beat out Amir or apparently Holmes for playing time backing up Embiid. 

I don't see why he do any better with us.  Whose minutes is he going to take?  Okafor needs to go to the Bulls or Suns where he can get minutes on a team not interested in winning. 
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: mobilija on November 01, 2017, 06:40:46 PM
If he gets bought out, why would he want to come to Boston? He's not getting playing time here either. He'd be behind Horford, Baynes and maybe Theis.

His skill set would be different than the guys we have and might be nice as an occasional change up but I just don't see him having more playing time value than what we already have. He wants to play. He would have to dramatically improve his deficiencies to play here. Do you see him thinking he's gonna beat out the guys in front of him? Is he thinking, "I can be as good defensively as Baynes or bring the energy and smarts like Theis". I don't. He's gonna wanna go somewhere he can get PT.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: tazzmaniac on November 01, 2017, 06:40:48 PM
If Brad can somehow get his hands on Jalil this will be good for us and him.
Why?  Brad couldn't do anything with Young or Sully. 

Coach Brown is a player development coach.  Covington, an undrafted player, has developed into a good starting SF.  McConnell, an undrafted player, is becoming a solid backup PG.  Okafor had plenty of opportunity with the Sixers.  The Sixers moved Noel to PF for most of a season to allow Okafor opportunity to succeed at center.  They tried the same thing with Embiid/Okafor combo for a few games last season.

Dude apples and oranges
Why?  Does Brad not care about defense?  Is he going to focus the offense on Okafor?  Is he going to take away minutes from better players to give Okafor playing time? 
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: SHAQATTACK on November 01, 2017, 06:47:32 PM
and WHAT IF ....he turns out to be a key piece ......picked up for a song .

There was Whitside who was a nothing , Turner , Crawford ....lots of guys

Kinda just need patience and imagination. of someone who believed in them .....and CBS s lucky charm.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: jambr380 on November 01, 2017, 06:55:11 PM
If Brad can somehow get his hands on Jalil this will be good for us and him.
Why?  Brad couldn't do anything with Young or Sully

Coach Brown is a player development coach.  Covington, an undrafted player, has developed into a good starting SF.  McConnell, an undrafted player, is becoming a solid backup PG.  Okafor had plenty of opportunity with the Sixers.  The Sixers moved Noel to PF for most of a season to allow Okafor opportunity to succeed at center.  They tried the same thing with Embiid/Okafor combo for a few games last season.

The same Sully who was selected #21 in the draft, was a starter for 3 of his 4 years in Boston, and averaged 11 PPG and 8 RPG in his Celtics career before completely falling off a cliff after leaving?

I would say Brad did a very good job with Sully while he was in Boston; he would probably still be a productive player on our team.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: RJ87 on November 01, 2017, 07:16:35 PM
Why?  Brad couldn't do anything with Young or Sully. 

Coach Brown is a player development coach.  Covington, an undrafted player, has developed into a good starting SF.  McConnell, an undrafted player, is becoming a solid backup PG.  Okafor had plenty of opportunity with the Sixers.  The Sixers moved Noel to PF for most of a season to allow Okafor opportunity to succeed at center.  They tried the same thing with Embiid/Okafor combo for a few games last season.

I just have a feeling that if Jalil Okafor ends up in BOS he'll thrive. Don't ask me how I just know it.

Perhaps it's the team's chemistry and winning culture. Perhaps it's Brad Stevens. Perhaps it's the Banners. Perhaps it's Gino...or Celtic Mystique.

I'm not counting the kid out.

And Young and Sully are different - Okafor used this past offseason to actually lose weight, adapting to a vegan lifestyle. That effort alone puts him in a class above Sully, and Young to a point. The guy showed up to camp in the best shape of his career because he put in the work, they  give a little burn and he looks improved. Philly's response? Have their coach publicly declare he's not in the rotation.

Even after that, he's handling it pretty well. He seems to see the writing's on the wall - he's not a part of the plan in Philly, still wishing the team well but wanting an opportunity. Isn't that what you what guys to do? Want to play? If he just sat on a bench collecting his checks, he'd be a malcontent.
Okafor has made some changes which will hopefully help him succeed.  However that doesn't mean that he deserves to be in the rotation.  Philly is trying to win and make the playoffs.  It says something that Okafor can't beat out Amir or apparently Holmes for playing time backing up Embiid. 

I don't see why he do any better with us.  Whose minutes is he going to take?  Okafor needs to go to the Bulls or Suns where he can get minutes on a team not interested in winning.

From the sounds of it, he's not even being given a chance to earn a spot over Amir. Brad Stevens would never declare a player out of the rotation in November. Brad would encourage guys to stay ready, because they can impact a game at any given moment.

Philly doesn't want him. They supposedly had agreed to a deal last season, even pulling him from a game, and then the deal broke down. They've already made up their mind. Give the kid a chance to play somewhere else.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: CelticSooner on November 01, 2017, 07:16:55 PM
I've never been a proponent of going out getting Okafor but I'd be lying if I said I weren't curious about what CBS to potentially do with his career. Philly could potentially look like even more like fools and they know this lol
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: tazzmaniac on November 01, 2017, 07:19:08 PM
If Brad can somehow get his hands on Jalil this will be good for us and him.
Why?  Brad couldn't do anything with Young or Sully

Coach Brown is a player development coach.  Covington, an undrafted player, has developed into a good starting SF.  McConnell, an undrafted player, is becoming a solid backup PG.  Okafor had plenty of opportunity with the Sixers.  The Sixers moved Noel to PF for most of a season to allow Okafor opportunity to succeed at center.  They tried the same thing with Embiid/Okafor combo for a few games last season.

The same Sully who was selected #21 in the draft, was a starter for 3 of his 4 years in Boston, and averaged 11 PPG and 8 RPG in his Celtics career before completely falling off a cliff after leaving?

I would say Brad did a very good job with Sully while he was in Boston; he would probably still be a productive player on our team.
The same Sully that Brad and Danny didn't think enough about to re-sign even after 4 years.  Did Sully get any better during those 4 years?  Don't think so.  That's why he's out of the league.  Not blaming Brad but he's no miracle worker. 

Putting up numbers does not equate to player development.  Sully, Turner and Crawford put up numbers on a team of role players but when they left they showed their limitations.  You might say Brad is good at putting lipstick on a pig.   

Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: jambr380 on November 01, 2017, 07:32:25 PM
If Brad can somehow get his hands on Jalil this will be good for us and him.
Why?  Brad couldn't do anything with Young or Sully

Coach Brown is a player development coach.  Covington, an undrafted player, has developed into a good starting SF.  McConnell, an undrafted player, is becoming a solid backup PG.  Okafor had plenty of opportunity with the Sixers.  The Sixers moved Noel to PF for most of a season to allow Okafor opportunity to succeed at center.  They tried the same thing with Embiid/Okafor combo for a few games last season.

The same Sully who was selected #21 in the draft, was a starter for 3 of his 4 years in Boston, and averaged 11 PPG and 8 RPG in his Celtics career before completely falling off a cliff after leaving?

I would say Brad did a very good job with Sully while he was in Boston; he would probably still be a productive player on our team.
The same Sully that Brad and Danny didn't think enough about to re-sign even after 4 years.  Did Sully get any better during those 4 years?  Don't think so.  That's why he's out of the league.  Not blaming Brad but he's no miracle worker. 

Putting up numbers does not equate to player development.  Sully, Turner and Crawford put up numbers on a team of role players but when they left they showed their limitations.  You might say Brad is good at putting lipstick on a pig.   

The signing of Horford put the nail in Sully's coffin. I also believe that the Cs thought there would be more of a market for him. I realize we kept Zeller, but Zeller's role of sitting on the bench and being ready when called upon didn't really fit Sully.

And I don't disagree with the 'lipstick on a pig' reference at all. Like Belichick, Stevens gets the most of his players and I believe he would make Okafor a decent NBA player, as well.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Phantom255x on November 01, 2017, 07:38:46 PM
Guys, we have the DPE AND A VETERAN MINIMUM.

If we can get Okafor for one of the two AND still have that extra exception for a future buy-out candidate... DO IT!   8)
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: tazzmaniac on November 01, 2017, 07:39:09 PM
Why?  Brad couldn't do anything with Young or Sully. 

Coach Brown is a player development coach.  Covington, an undrafted player, has developed into a good starting SF.  McConnell, an undrafted player, is becoming a solid backup PG.  Okafor had plenty of opportunity with the Sixers.  The Sixers moved Noel to PF for most of a season to allow Okafor opportunity to succeed at center.  They tried the same thing with Embiid/Okafor combo for a few games last season.

I just have a feeling that if Jalil Okafor ends up in BOS he'll thrive. Don't ask me how I just know it.

Perhaps it's the team's chemistry and winning culture. Perhaps it's Brad Stevens. Perhaps it's the Banners. Perhaps it's Gino...or Celtic Mystique.

I'm not counting the kid out.

And Young and Sully are different - Okafor used this past offseason to actually lose weight, adapting to a vegan lifestyle. That effort alone puts him in a class above Sully, and Young to a point. The guy showed up to camp in the best shape of his career because he put in the work, they  give a little burn and he looks improved. Philly's response? Have their coach publicly declare he's not in the rotation.

Even after that, he's handling it pretty well. He seems to see the writing's on the wall - he's not a part of the plan in Philly, still wishing the team well but wanting an opportunity. Isn't that what you what guys to do? Want to play? If he just sat on a bench collecting his checks, he'd be a malcontent.
Okafor has made some changes which will hopefully help him succeed.  However that doesn't mean that he deserves to be in the rotation.  Philly is trying to win and make the playoffs.  It says something that Okafor can't beat out Amir or apparently Holmes for playing time backing up Embiid. 

I don't see why he do any better with us.  Whose minutes is he going to take?  Okafor needs to go to the Bulls or Suns where he can get minutes on a team not interested in winning.

From the sounds of it, he's not even being given a chance to earn a spot over Amir. Brad Stevens would never declare a player out of the rotation in November. Brad would encourage guys to stay ready, because they can impact a game at any given moment.

Philly doesn't want him. They supposedly had agreed to a deal last season, even pulling him from a game, and then the deal broke down. They've already made up their mind. Give the kid a chance to play somewhere else.
Okafor had a shot to earn playing time during training camp and preseason.  Teams generally play a 9 or 10 player rotation.  So that means 3 or 4 active players per team are out of the rotation.  Stauskas is out of the Sixers rotation too.  Should they buy him out? 
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Phantom255x on November 01, 2017, 07:42:22 PM
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/925869335683457024?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Quote
Adrian Wojnarowski‏Verified account
@wojespn

Sources: 76ers aren't budging on Jahlil Okafor's bid for contract buyout talks. Team plans to continue trade discussions. Interest exists.

What a FANTASTIC Front Office!  :laugh:

"Interest exists"  ::) (Really?? Then why hasn't be been traded after like a year of this...)
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: bogg on November 01, 2017, 08:00:07 PM
The same Sully that Brad and Danny didn't think enough about to re-sign even after 4 years.  Did Sully get any better during those 4 years?  Don't think so.  That's why he's out of the league.  Not blaming Brad but he's no miracle worker. 

Putting up numbers does not equate to player development.  Sully, Turner and Crawford put up numbers on a team of role players but when they left they showed their limitations.  You might say Brad is good at putting lipstick on a pig.   

Sullinger wasn't re-signed and is currently out of the league because he can't stay under 300 pounds, not because of anything that Stevens did or didn't do or any sort of developmental curve on Jared's part. He can't stay healthy because he can't stay in shape and winds up with weight-related injuries as a result.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: tazzmaniac on November 01, 2017, 08:00:11 PM
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/925869335683457024?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Quote
Adrian Wojnarowski‏Verified account
@wojespn

Sources: 76ers aren't budging on Jahlil Okafor's bid for contract buyout talks. Team plans to continue trade discussions. Interest exists.

What a FANTASTIC Front Office!  :laugh:

"Interest exists"  ::) (Really?? Then why hasn't be been traded after like a year of this...)
Because Colangelo is, or at least was, overvaluing him as a former #3 pick.  You'll note that Okafor commented that he thought there were trades available in the past. 

One holdup at the moment may be Covington's renegotiation and extension which can't be done until Nov 15.  They aren't going to take on more salary this year until after that gets done.   
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: RJ87 on November 01, 2017, 08:06:47 PM
Why?  Brad couldn't do anything with Young or Sully. 

Coach Brown is a player development coach.  Covington, an undrafted player, has developed into a good starting SF.  McConnell, an undrafted player, is becoming a solid backup PG.  Okafor had plenty of opportunity with the Sixers.  The Sixers moved Noel to PF for most of a season to allow Okafor opportunity to succeed at center.  They tried the same thing with Embiid/Okafor combo for a few games last season.

I just have a feeling that if Jalil Okafor ends up in BOS he'll thrive. Don't ask me how I just know it.

Perhaps it's the team's chemistry and winning culture. Perhaps it's Brad Stevens. Perhaps it's the Banners. Perhaps it's Gino...or Celtic Mystique.

I'm not counting the kid out.

And Young and Sully are different - Okafor used this past offseason to actually lose weight, adapting to a vegan lifestyle. That effort alone puts him in a class above Sully, and Young to a point. The guy showed up to camp in the best shape of his career because he put in the work, they  give a little burn and he looks improved. Philly's response? Have their coach publicly declare he's not in the rotation.

Even after that, he's handling it pretty well. He seems to see the writing's on the wall - he's not a part of the plan in Philly, still wishing the team well but wanting an opportunity. Isn't that what you what guys to do? Want to play? If he just sat on a bench collecting his checks, he'd be a malcontent.
Okafor has made some changes which will hopefully help him succeed.  However that doesn't mean that he deserves to be in the rotation.  Philly is trying to win and make the playoffs.  It says something that Okafor can't beat out Amir or apparently Holmes for playing time backing up Embiid. 

I don't see why he do any better with us.  Whose minutes is he going to take?  Okafor needs to go to the Bulls or Suns where he can get minutes on a team not interested in winning.

From the sounds of it, he's not even being given a chance to earn a spot over Amir. Brad Stevens would never declare a player out of the rotation in November. Brad would encourage guys to stay ready, because they can impact a game at any given moment.

Philly doesn't want him. They supposedly had agreed to a deal last season, even pulling him from a game, and then the deal broke down. They've already made up their mind. Give the kid a chance to play somewhere else.
Okafor had a shot to earn playing time during training camp and preseason.  Teams generally play a 9 or 10 player rotation.  So that means 3 or 4 active players per team are out of the rotation.  Stauskas is out of the Sixers rotation too.  Should they buy him out?

If Brett Brown comes out and declares he's out of the rotation and "that's that", then he should ask for one.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: RJ87 on November 01, 2017, 08:14:37 PM
The same Sully that Brad and Danny didn't think enough about to re-sign even after 4 years.  Did Sully get any better during those 4 years?  Don't think so.  That's why he's out of the league.  Not blaming Brad but he's no miracle worker. 

Putting up numbers does not equate to player development.  Sully, Turner and Crawford put up numbers on a team of role players but when they left they showed their limitations.  You might say Brad is good at putting lipstick on a pig.   


Sullinger wasn't re-signed and is currently out of the league because he can't stay under 300 pounds, not because of anything that Stevens did or didn't do or any sort of developmental curve on Jared's part. He can't stay healthy because he can't stay in shape and winds up with weight-related injuries as a result.

Ding. Ding. We have a winner.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: More Banners on November 01, 2017, 08:32:15 PM
Guys, we have the DPE AND A VETERAN MINIMUM.

If we can get Okafor for one of the two AND still have that extra exception for a future buy-out candidate... DO IT!   8)

I'd rather save the DPE for someone who would play. That exception is how we can outbid other possible contenders when the time comes. I'd take the guy for the minimum, but as far as the DPE goes, I'd rather keep my powder dry.

Unless he comes with a draft pick attached. That's different.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: tazzmaniac on November 01, 2017, 08:44:17 PM
The same Sully that Brad and Danny didn't think enough about to re-sign even after 4 years.  Did Sully get any better during those 4 years?  Don't think so.  That's why he's out of the league.  Not blaming Brad but he's no miracle worker. 

Putting up numbers does not equate to player development.  Sully, Turner and Crawford put up numbers on a team of role players but when they left they showed their limitations.  You might say Brad is good at putting lipstick on a pig.   
Sullinger wasn't re-signed and is currently out of the league because he can't stay under 300 pounds, not because of anything that Stevens did or didn't do or any sort of developmental curve on Jared's part. He can't stay healthy because he can't stay in shape and winds up with weight-related injuries as a result.
Regardless of his weight, he really didn't develop much during his 4 years. 

As an aside, he's feasting on the Chinese league.  First two games: 41/10 and 46/25/7.  I knew that league was weak but yikes.   
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: bogg on November 01, 2017, 09:04:46 PM
The same Sully that Brad and Danny didn't think enough about to re-sign even after 4 years.  Did Sully get any better during those 4 years?  Don't think so.  That's why he's out of the league.  Not blaming Brad but he's no miracle worker. 

Putting up numbers does not equate to player development.  Sully, Turner and Crawford put up numbers on a team of role players but when they left they showed their limitations.  You might say Brad is good at putting lipstick on a pig.   
Sullinger wasn't re-signed and is currently out of the league because he can't stay under 300 pounds, not because of anything that Stevens did or didn't do or any sort of developmental curve on Jared's part. He can't stay healthy because he can't stay in shape and winds up with weight-related injuries as a result.
Regardless of his weight, he really didn't develop much during his 4 years. 

As an aside, he's feasting on the Chinese league.  First two games: 41/10 and 46/25/7.  I knew that league was weak but yikes.

The guy can't be bothered to say no to a post-practice pizza, nevermind putting in the kind of offseason work to grow your game. Young's another guy who famously coasted on talent and never put in work. Trying to make a point about Stevens using guys who weren't willing to put in work on their own end, and are now out of the league after each giving it a go with at least one other franchise, is disingenuous at best.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: tazzmaniac on November 01, 2017, 09:46:42 PM
The same Sully that Brad and Danny didn't think enough about to re-sign even after 4 years.  Did Sully get any better during those 4 years?  Don't think so.  That's why he's out of the league.  Not blaming Brad but he's no miracle worker. 

Putting up numbers does not equate to player development.  Sully, Turner and Crawford put up numbers on a team of role players but when they left they showed their limitations.  You might say Brad is good at putting lipstick on a pig.   
Sullinger wasn't re-signed and is currently out of the league because he can't stay under 300 pounds, not because of anything that Stevens did or didn't do or any sort of developmental curve on Jared's part. He can't stay healthy because he can't stay in shape and winds up with weight-related injuries as a result.
Regardless of his weight, he really didn't develop much during his 4 years. 

As an aside, he's feasting on the Chinese league.  First two games: 41/10 and 46/25/7.  I knew that league was weak but yikes.

The guy can't be bothered to say no to a post-practice pizza, nevermind putting in the kind of offseason work to grow your game. Young's another guy who famously coasted on talent and never put in work. Trying to make a point about Stevens using guys who weren't willing to put in work on their own end, and are now out of the league after each giving it a go with at least one other franchise, is disingenuous at best.
That's exactly the point.  Player development to a large degree depends on the player regardless of how good the coach or organization is. 
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: bogg on November 01, 2017, 10:04:45 PM
That's exactly the point.  Player development to a large degree depends on the player regardless of how good the coach or organization is.

By all accounts, Okafor has done everything the Sixers asked him to over the last year or so and is currently in fantastic shape. If he was 40 pounds overweight and the Sixers were making noise about Okafor spending the summer in clubs I'd get the point you're making, but it just doesn't seem applicable here. There are very real concerns about whether Okafor would fit at all and whether the exception would be better used elsewhere, but I really don't have any concerns about him coming in with a poor attitude and refusing to work.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: tazzmaniac on November 02, 2017, 08:26:42 AM
That's exactly the point.  Player development to a large degree depends on the player regardless of how good the coach or organization is.

By all accounts, Okafor has done everything the Sixers asked him to over the last year or so and is currently in fantastic shape. If he was 40 pounds overweight and the Sixers were making noise about Okafor spending the summer in clubs I'd get the point you're making, but it just doesn't seem applicable here. There are very real concerns about whether Okafor would fit at all and whether the exception would be better used elsewhere, but I really don't have any concerns about him coming in with a poor attitude and refusing to work.
Last year or so?  He didn't get in shape until this offseason.  That's a start but I've yet to hear him talking about his deficiencies as a player and his efforts to improve them.  Is he working on his defense?  His rebounding?  Expanding his shooting range?  He's talking about his career and playing time.  If we get him and he's still riding the bench which he almost certainly will, what is his attitude going to be?   

I'm not saying Okafor is a lost cause.  But he's a project with an upside of Eric Kanter right now.  We're not the right team for him.   

I'm also not saying Sixers management hasn't mishandled this.  Colangelo is a double talking snake.  Coach Brown though is a player development coach with a defensive focus.  Okafor should have shown some improvement under him. 
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Big333223 on November 02, 2017, 08:38:14 AM
It seems like a lot of the pro-Jahlil posts come down to "He'll be different when he's away from the Sixers."

But just because the Sixers are a dysfunctional organization does not mean Okafor isn't also a headcase. He's an incredibly smooth offensive player who has never shown an aptitude to be good at any other aspect of basketball either in the pros or college. Where is the evidence that he'll get better at the things he's bad at if he's away from the Sixers?
The general thought is, that a player can't be that offensively talented, both with moves and skill, that he can't be taught to be at least a decent defender.  How can he have such brilliant footwork, hands, post-moves, etc. and not be able to translate that defensively?  How can have such good shooting touch down low and not be able to translate that out to deeper range?  He isn't quick and never will be, but he pretty clearly has talent, the rest can be taught.

He also isn't as bad a rebounder as he has been made out to be.  He also has shown some shot blocking ability.

When people were proposing trading a Brooklyn pick for him two years ago or far Marcus Smart I was vehemently arguing against them because of these limitations. Now that the cost will be just salary or a second round pick, I do think it is worth seeing what CBS could teach him for the Celtics. Lets not forget what he was able to do with Jordan Crawford.
This is the other thing I keep seeing. Brad Stevens being a good coach is not a reason to target Okafor. It's possible that Stevens can help Okafor grow as a player but why is that a reason for the Celtics to not target someone else, who is already better at the things the team needs and let Stevens work with that guy, instead?
I would argue that Okafor provides a skill that no one else on the team provides though.  There isn't a single Celtic that you could consistently feed the ball to in the paint and get a basket.  And while the game has definitely gone further away from the basket, being able to score in the paint is still something a team needs every once in awhile.  Okafor can put the ball in the hoop if you get it to him in position.  He also is credible enough from the line, that he can play in crunch time (if needed) and can't just be fouled as a defensive strategy.
That's a totally sensible argument for Okafor. I would rather see the C's target someone with more versatility to their game but I have no arguments with what you said.

The problem I have is with posts that seem to think Okafor's myriad deficiencies don't matter because Stevens is a good coach. But since Stevens would be coaching whoever the C's bring in, that's not an argument for Okafor.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Moranis on November 02, 2017, 08:38:49 AM
That's exactly the point.  Player development to a large degree depends on the player regardless of how good the coach or organization is.

By all accounts, Okafor has done everything the Sixers asked him to over the last year or so and is currently in fantastic shape. If he was 40 pounds overweight and the Sixers were making noise about Okafor spending the summer in clubs I'd get the point you're making, but it just doesn't seem applicable here. There are very real concerns about whether Okafor would fit at all and whether the exception would be better used elsewhere, but I really don't have any concerns about him coming in with a poor attitude and refusing to work.
Last year or so?  He didn't get in shape until this offseason.  That's a start but I've yet to hear him talking about his deficiencies as a player and his efforts to improve them.  Is he working on his defense?  His rebounding?  Expanding his shooting range?  He's talking about his career and playing time.  If we get him and he's still riding the bench which he almost certainly will, what is his attitude going to be?   

I'm not saying Okafor is a lost cause.  But he's a project with an upside of Eric Kanter right now.  We're not the right team for him.   

I'm also not saying Sixers management hasn't mishandled this.  Colangelo is a double talking snake.  Coach Brown though is a player development coach with a defensive focus.  Okafor should have shown some improvement under him.
His 1 game this year he had more shots from 10-16 feet than any other distance and he hit those at 66.6%. 

This notion that Okafor can't hit a shot outside of the paint is just nonsense.  He has been fairly respectable from 10-16 feet in his career, especially for a young big man.  He has decent touch from the foul line. 

Okafor doesn't have 3 point range, but he can hit an open jumper and has throughout his career.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: tazzmaniac on November 02, 2017, 08:41:40 AM
Saw an article that Colangelo is looking for 2nd round pick(s) for Okafor now and maybe waiting for the Bledsoe trade to shake things up.  I'm still expecting another fake 1st trade to a bad team.   
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: saltlover on November 02, 2017, 08:47:06 AM
That's exactly the point.  Player development to a large degree depends on the player regardless of how good the coach or organization is.

By all accounts, Okafor has done everything the Sixers asked him to over the last year or so and is currently in fantastic shape. If he was 40 pounds overweight and the Sixers were making noise about Okafor spending the summer in clubs I'd get the point you're making, but it just doesn't seem applicable here. There are very real concerns about whether Okafor would fit at all and whether the exception would be better used elsewhere, but I really don't have any concerns about him coming in with a poor attitude and refusing to work.
Last year or so?  He didn't get in shape until this offseason.  That's a start but I've yet to hear him talking about his deficiencies as a player and his efforts to improve them.  Is he working on his defense?  His rebounding?  Expanding his shooting range?  He's talking about his career and playing time.  If we get him and he's still riding the bench which he almost certainly will, what is his attitude going to be?   

I'm not saying Okafor is a lost cause.  But he's a project with an upside of Eric Kanter right now.  We're not the right team for him.

It’s really unclear what happened with Okafor over the last 18 or so months.

He had a minor procedure in March 2016, that had a six week recovery time.  But he wasn’t ready for training camp seven months later, and then had surgery again this past March having supposedly felt discomfort all season.  Now, it’s entirely possible that Okafor blew off his rehab. If he played for any other team I’d be set to believe that’s what happened.  But with all the question marks the last few years coming from Philly on injuries, from Embiid, then Simmons, and now Fultz, it seems credible that in fact the Sixers either messed up Okafor’s initial procedure or lied about the severity in order to keep up his trade value.

In short, I just don’t know what to make of what happened to Okafor.  His rookie season went as expected — some dominant inside play on offense, some questionable defense, and a lot of inconsistency.  And then he got hurt, and his career quickly went off the rails, but it’s unclear if that was due to injury, the Sixers inability to play him with a superior Embiid, or Okafor’s own attitude/lack of development.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Green-18 on November 02, 2017, 09:07:27 AM
I was originally against an Okafor trade but my opinion is changing quickly.  This team doesn't NEED anything specific and I think there is only upside to signing Okafor.  I trust in Brad to maximize his potential. 

Aside from Okafor, I'm not sure how we would use the DPE.  Barring injuries I really prefer us to stay away from guards/wings.  There is no reason to interfere with the growth of our current group.  The PF/C spot is the only area that makes sense to me.  An Okafor acquisition is perfect because there is no pressure from him to contribute.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: SHAQATTACK on November 02, 2017, 09:16:20 AM
Oakfor seems to had a minor awakening from listening to him speak in interviews.. Enbiid has come back with a vengence and basically claimed the big man throne and leadership role on that team. .  I suspect ,  Oakfor has started to mature and reflect on his not so great start in the NBA , seeing others move on with success .

I THINK,  NOT UNLIKE Turner and even Irving ....Oakfor wants a new place to BEGIN over. 

I think Embiids sucess has kinda woke Oakfor up ,  he feels left behind.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Androslav on November 02, 2017, 09:44:43 AM
That's exactly the point.  Player development to a large degree depends on the player regardless of how good the coach or organization is.

By all accounts, Okafor has done everything the Sixers asked him to over the last year or so and is currently in fantastic shape. If he was 40 pounds overweight and the Sixers were making noise about Okafor spending the summer in clubs I'd get the point you're making, but it just doesn't seem applicable here. There are very real concerns about whether Okafor would fit at all and whether the exception would be better used elsewhere, but I really don't have any concerns about him coming in with a poor attitude and refusing to work.
Last year or so?  He didn't get in shape until this offseason.  That's a start but I've yet to hear him talking about his deficiencies as a player and his efforts to improve them.  Is he working on his defense?  His rebounding?  Expanding his shooting range?  He's talking about his career and playing time.  If we get him and he's still riding the bench which he almost certainly will, what is his attitude going to be?   

I'm not saying Okafor is a lost cause.  But he's a project with an upside of Eric Kanter right now.  We're not the right team for him.   

I'm also not saying Sixers management hasn't mishandled this.  Colangelo is a double talking snake.  Coach Brown though is a player development coach with a defensive focus.  Okafor should have shown some improvement under him.
His 1 game this year he had more shots from 10-16 feet than any other distance and he hit those at 66.6%. 

This notion that Okafor can't hit a shot outside of the paint is just nonsense.  He has been fairly respectable from 10-16 feet in his career, especially for a young big man.  He has decent touch from the foul line. 

Okafor doesn't have 3 point range, but he can hit an open jumper and has throughout his career.
Not really. for career he is:

10-16 feet - 24/88 - .272%
16 feet-3pt - 84/229 - .367%

He is skilled, he has the touch, but not a jumper.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Moranis on November 02, 2017, 10:22:18 AM
That's exactly the point.  Player development to a large degree depends on the player regardless of how good the coach or organization is.

By all accounts, Okafor has done everything the Sixers asked him to over the last year or so and is currently in fantastic shape. If he was 40 pounds overweight and the Sixers were making noise about Okafor spending the summer in clubs I'd get the point you're making, but it just doesn't seem applicable here. There are very real concerns about whether Okafor would fit at all and whether the exception would be better used elsewhere, but I really don't have any concerns about him coming in with a poor attitude and refusing to work.
Last year or so?  He didn't get in shape until this offseason.  That's a start but I've yet to hear him talking about his deficiencies as a player and his efforts to improve them.  Is he working on his defense?  His rebounding?  Expanding his shooting range?  He's talking about his career and playing time.  If we get him and he's still riding the bench which he almost certainly will, what is his attitude going to be?   

I'm not saying Okafor is a lost cause.  But he's a project with an upside of Eric Kanter right now.  We're not the right team for him.   

I'm also not saying Sixers management hasn't mishandled this.  Colangelo is a double talking snake.  Coach Brown though is a player development coach with a defensive focus.  Okafor should have shown some improvement under him.
His 1 game this year he had more shots from 10-16 feet than any other distance and he hit those at 66.6%. 

This notion that Okafor can't hit a shot outside of the paint is just nonsense.  He has been fairly respectable from 10-16 feet in his career, especially for a young big man.  He has decent touch from the foul line. 

Okafor doesn't have 3 point range, but he can hit an open jumper and has throughout his career.
Not really. for career he is:

10-16 feet - 24/88 - .272%
16 feet-3pt - 84/229 - .367%

He is skilled, he has the touch, but not a jumper.
Those numbers can't be right.  There is no way Okafor has attempted 229 shots from 16 feet to the 3 point line.  Below is the link to bball-ref which had him shooting 35.2% as a rookie from 10-16 which he upped to 38.2% in his second year (he was under 27.5% from 16 feet to 3).  Of the Celtics in the regular rotation this year only Tatum, Baynes, Horford, and Rozier have a better shooting percentage from 10-16 feet than Okafor had in either of his two seasons. 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/okafoja01.html
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: PaulAllen on November 02, 2017, 10:30:49 AM
I think DA would have made a move much sooner but is reluctant due to Theis's progression..
Still if he is bought out you cant pass on him..
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: saltlover on November 02, 2017, 11:28:29 AM
That's exactly the point.  Player development to a large degree depends on the player regardless of how good the coach or organization is.

By all accounts, Okafor has done everything the Sixers asked him to over the last year or so and is currently in fantastic shape. If he was 40 pounds overweight and the Sixers were making noise about Okafor spending the summer in clubs I'd get the point you're making, but it just doesn't seem applicable here. There are very real concerns about whether Okafor would fit at all and whether the exception would be better used elsewhere, but I really don't have any concerns about him coming in with a poor attitude and refusing to work.
Last year or so?  He didn't get in shape until this offseason.  That's a start but I've yet to hear him talking about his deficiencies as a player and his efforts to improve them.  Is he working on his defense?  His rebounding?  Expanding his shooting range?  He's talking about his career and playing time.  If we get him and he's still riding the bench which he almost certainly will, what is his attitude going to be?   

I'm not saying Okafor is a lost cause.  But he's a project with an upside of Eric Kanter right now.  We're not the right team for him.   

I'm also not saying Sixers management hasn't mishandled this.  Colangelo is a double talking snake.  Coach Brown though is a player development coach with a defensive focus.  Okafor should have shown some improvement under him.
His 1 game this year he had more shots from 10-16 feet than any other distance and he hit those at 66.6%. 

This notion that Okafor can't hit a shot outside of the paint is just nonsense.  He has been fairly respectable from 10-16 feet in his career, especially for a young big man.  He has decent touch from the foul line. 

Okafor doesn't have 3 point range, but he can hit an open jumper and has throughout his career.
Not really. for career he is:

10-16 feet - 24/88 - .272%
16 feet-3pt - 84/229 - .367%

He is skilled, he has the touch, but not a jumper.
Those numbers can't be right.  There is no way Okafor has attempted 229 shots from 16 feet to the 3 point line.  Below is the link to bball-ref which had him shooting 35.2% as a rookie from 10-16 which he upped to 38.2% in his second year (he was under 27.5% from 16 feet to 3).  Of the Celtics in the regular rotation this year only Tatum, Baynes, Horford, and Rozier have a better shooting percentage from 10-16 feet than Okafor had in either of his two seasons. 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/okafoja01.html

According to basketball reference, Okafor has taken 1259 shots in his career, and 18.2% of those have been from 10-16 ft.  That calculates as 229 shots.  I think Androslav’s eyes slid over a column from the table.

That said, on mid-range shots (10-16 ft), of which he has taken a substantial number, he’s shooting a very poor 36.7%.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Big333223 on November 02, 2017, 11:46:09 AM
There are rumor reports that the C's are interested in Okafor.

https://sports.yahoo.com/rumor-celtics-interested-jahlil-okafor-191709345.html
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: smokeablount on November 02, 2017, 11:52:14 AM
So I guess Philly is looking for a 2nd rounder for Okafor?  And we don't have one to offer, at least in '18 or '19, so could we offer a 2nd rounder down the road, or something else?

I like Theis and don't want his minutes cut much.  I'm also not particularly pro-Okafor,  but I think this team could be a 55+ win team this year even without Hayward, so I'm not super concerned about our own 1st this year if we were willing to offer it for JO + a 2nd.

I think buying low on a 21 year-old 7-footer who averaged 15+ PPG as a 19 year old rookie seems smart, if CBS is on board.  Having Okafor as a low post scoring bench specialist who can play on the 2nd unit next to Theis (who's getting minutes for his defense, rebounding and rim running) I think would help us.  This year our bench has had scoring droughts, and adding JO should allow CBS to play lineups that suit situations where we need to emphasize scoring.  Morris-Okafor-Rozier would be a good 3 headed scoring monster off the bench. 
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Moranis on November 02, 2017, 12:01:49 PM
That's exactly the point.  Player development to a large degree depends on the player regardless of how good the coach or organization is.

By all accounts, Okafor has done everything the Sixers asked him to over the last year or so and is currently in fantastic shape. If he was 40 pounds overweight and the Sixers were making noise about Okafor spending the summer in clubs I'd get the point you're making, but it just doesn't seem applicable here. There are very real concerns about whether Okafor would fit at all and whether the exception would be better used elsewhere, but I really don't have any concerns about him coming in with a poor attitude and refusing to work.
Last year or so?  He didn't get in shape until this offseason.  That's a start but I've yet to hear him talking about his deficiencies as a player and his efforts to improve them.  Is he working on his defense?  His rebounding?  Expanding his shooting range?  He's talking about his career and playing time.  If we get him and he's still riding the bench which he almost certainly will, what is his attitude going to be?   

I'm not saying Okafor is a lost cause.  But he's a project with an upside of Eric Kanter right now.  We're not the right team for him.   

I'm also not saying Sixers management hasn't mishandled this.  Colangelo is a double talking snake.  Coach Brown though is a player development coach with a defensive focus.  Okafor should have shown some improvement under him.
His 1 game this year he had more shots from 10-16 feet than any other distance and he hit those at 66.6%. 

This notion that Okafor can't hit a shot outside of the paint is just nonsense.  He has been fairly respectable from 10-16 feet in his career, especially for a young big man.  He has decent touch from the foul line. 

Okafor doesn't have 3 point range, but he can hit an open jumper and has throughout his career.
Not really. for career he is:

10-16 feet - 24/88 - .272%
16 feet-3pt - 84/229 - .367%

He is skilled, he has the touch, but not a jumper.
Those numbers can't be right.  There is no way Okafor has attempted 229 shots from 16 feet to the 3 point line.  Below is the link to bball-ref which had him shooting 35.2% as a rookie from 10-16 which he upped to 38.2% in his second year (he was under 27.5% from 16 feet to 3).  Of the Celtics in the regular rotation this year only Tatum, Baynes, Horford, and Rozier have a better shooting percentage from 10-16 feet than Okafor had in either of his two seasons. 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/okafoja01.html

According to basketball reference, Okafor has taken 1259 shots in his career, and 18.2% of those have been from 10-16 ft.  That calculates as 229 shots.  I think Androslav’s eyes slid over a column from the table.

That said, on mid-range shots (10-16 ft), of which he has taken a substantial number, he’s shooting a very poor 36.7%.
36.7% isn't nearly as" poor" as you think it is.  I mean Steph Curry who is one of the greatest shooters in history is only shooting 45.2% from that range.  Draymond Green is just 30.6% from that range.  Lebron 36.3%.  Love 35.1%. Cousins 33.9%.  Griffin 33.9%.  Anthony 40% (first 6 years his best was 36.6).  George 38.4%.  BBall Reference didn't track that stat until 00/01 season, Duncan from that point on averaged 40.3% from that range (so 4th season to end). 

36.7% for the first two years, is actually pretty good from that range, especially for a big man. 
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Fafnir on November 02, 2017, 12:16:12 PM
He's talented sure....

But for an offensive player he has a negtive impact on that end and doesn't exactly fit the current style of play in the NBA overall.

And then you consider his defense  :blank:.....
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: triboy16f on November 02, 2017, 01:09:41 PM
If the Celts trade for him....is there going to be min for him? This is what he is complaining about

76ers would easily take Yabu and Nader/2nd round pick imo

But Okafor may not get min with Baynes, Morris, Theis ahead

Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Green-18 on November 02, 2017, 01:23:58 PM
If the Celts trade for him....is there going to be min for him? This is what he is complaining about

76ers would easily take Yabu and Nader/2nd round pick imo

But Okafor may not get min with Baynes, Morris, Theis ahead

I think Danny refuses to trade anything of real value.  2nd round pick and/or Nader is the most I can see.  Maybe another team gives up more but the rest of the league doesn't seem interested.  As for minutes, there would be no guarantee that he get's any. 

Ultimately it would fall on Okafor to understand that he needs to work for every minute.  Brad would give him a chance at some point if he committed to the defensive end and gave a genuine effort to learn our system.  A half season stint in Boston could potentially help his situation with the rest of the league.  At this point it's about improving his reputation.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: byennie on November 02, 2017, 01:32:24 PM
If the Celts trade for him....is there going to be min for him? This is what he is complaining about

76ers would easily take Yabu and Nader/2nd round pick imo

But Okafor may not get min with Baynes, Morris, Theis ahead

I think Danny refuses to trade anything of real value.  2nd round pick and/or Nader is the most I can see.  Maybe another team gives up more but the rest of the league doesn't seem interested.  As for minutes, there would be no guarantee that he get's any. 

Ultimately it would fall on Okafor to understand that he needs to work for every minute.  Brad would give him a chance at some point if he committed to the defensive end and gave a genuine effort to learn our system.  A half season stint in Boston could potentially help his situation with the rest of the league.  At this point it's about improving his reputation.

I think one possibility is trading something small (say a 2nd rounder), and sending Yabusele to the G League to get a lot more minutes. Doesn't mean we actually prefer Okafor, but would allow us to take a look at him while Yabu gets developed. We could also probably justify a few weeks of "getting up to speed", and use him as injury insurance.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: saltlover on November 02, 2017, 01:39:30 PM
That's exactly the point.  Player development to a large degree depends on the player regardless of how good the coach or organization is.

By all accounts, Okafor has done everything the Sixers asked him to over the last year or so and is currently in fantastic shape. If he was 40 pounds overweight and the Sixers were making noise about Okafor spending the summer in clubs I'd get the point you're making, but it just doesn't seem applicable here. There are very real concerns about whether Okafor would fit at all and whether the exception would be better used elsewhere, but I really don't have any concerns about him coming in with a poor attitude and refusing to work.
Last year or so?  He didn't get in shape until this offseason.  That's a start but I've yet to hear him talking about his deficiencies as a player and his efforts to improve them.  Is he working on his defense?  His rebounding?  Expanding his shooting range?  He's talking about his career and playing time.  If we get him and he's still riding the bench which he almost certainly will, what is his attitude going to be?   

I'm not saying Okafor is a lost cause.  But he's a project with an upside of Eric Kanter right now.  We're not the right team for him.   

I'm also not saying Sixers management hasn't mishandled this.  Colangelo is a double talking snake.  Coach Brown though is a player development coach with a defensive focus.  Okafor should have shown some improvement under him.
His 1 game this year he had more shots from 10-16 feet than any other distance and he hit those at 66.6%. 

This notion that Okafor can't hit a shot outside of the paint is just nonsense.  He has been fairly respectable from 10-16 feet in his career, especially for a young big man.  He has decent touch from the foul line. 

Okafor doesn't have 3 point range, but he can hit an open jumper and has throughout his career.
Not really. for career he is:

10-16 feet - 24/88 - .272%
16 feet-3pt - 84/229 - .367%

He is skilled, he has the touch, but not a jumper.
Those numbers can't be right.  There is no way Okafor has attempted 229 shots from 16 feet to the 3 point line.  Below is the link to bball-ref which had him shooting 35.2% as a rookie from 10-16 which he upped to 38.2% in his second year (he was under 27.5% from 16 feet to 3).  Of the Celtics in the regular rotation this year only Tatum, Baynes, Horford, and Rozier have a better shooting percentage from 10-16 feet than Okafor had in either of his two seasons. 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/okafoja01.html

According to basketball reference, Okafor has taken 1259 shots in his career, and 18.2% of those have been from 10-16 ft.  That calculates as 229 shots.  I think Androslav’s eyes slid over a column from the table.

That said, on mid-range shots (10-16 ft), of which he has taken a substantial number, he’s shooting a very poor 36.7%.
36.7% isn't nearly as" poor" as you think it is.  I mean Steph Curry who is one of the greatest shooters in history is only shooting 45.2% from that range.  Draymond Green is just 30.6% from that range.  Lebron 36.3%.  Love 35.1%. Cousins 33.9%.  Griffin 33.9%.  Anthony 40% (first 6 years his best was 36.6).  George 38.4%.  BBall Reference didn't track that stat until 00/01 season, Duncan from that point on averaged 40.3% from that range (so 4th season to end). 

36.7% for the first two years, is actually pretty good from that range, especially for a big man.

The league average last year from that range was 41.2%.  36.7% is therefore unequivocally below average, about 11 percent worse.  I haven’t found a single page with which to pull every player’s shooting percentages from different distances, but I would be surprised if Okafor was much better than the 25th percentile.  Furthermore, while looking at past players performances at early years of their careers isn’t useless, as defenses have shifted to giving up that shot in exchange for preventing higher value shots, you would expect to see lower percentages for that reason alone (and in fact the shooting rates in the earlier part of the decade were closer to 39% than 41%).
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: CelticsElite on November 02, 2017, 01:48:26 PM

https://twitter.com/PompeyOnSixers/status/925781419867205632
The Boston Celtics are considered the most likely destination for Jahlil Okafor if he agrees upon a buyout with the Philadelphia 76ers.

The Celtics have expressed interest in Okafor in the past and they also own a disabled player exception.

The 76ers have rejected Okafor's buyout request after they were unable to trade him ahead of the deadline on rookie scale options.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Moranis on November 02, 2017, 02:10:35 PM
That's exactly the point.  Player development to a large degree depends on the player regardless of how good the coach or organization is.

By all accounts, Okafor has done everything the Sixers asked him to over the last year or so and is currently in fantastic shape. If he was 40 pounds overweight and the Sixers were making noise about Okafor spending the summer in clubs I'd get the point you're making, but it just doesn't seem applicable here. There are very real concerns about whether Okafor would fit at all and whether the exception would be better used elsewhere, but I really don't have any concerns about him coming in with a poor attitude and refusing to work.
Last year or so?  He didn't get in shape until this offseason.  That's a start but I've yet to hear him talking about his deficiencies as a player and his efforts to improve them.  Is he working on his defense?  His rebounding?  Expanding his shooting range?  He's talking about his career and playing time.  If we get him and he's still riding the bench which he almost certainly will, what is his attitude going to be?   

I'm not saying Okafor is a lost cause.  But he's a project with an upside of Eric Kanter right now.  We're not the right team for him.   

I'm also not saying Sixers management hasn't mishandled this.  Colangelo is a double talking snake.  Coach Brown though is a player development coach with a defensive focus.  Okafor should have shown some improvement under him.
His 1 game this year he had more shots from 10-16 feet than any other distance and he hit those at 66.6%. 

This notion that Okafor can't hit a shot outside of the paint is just nonsense.  He has been fairly respectable from 10-16 feet in his career, especially for a young big man.  He has decent touch from the foul line. 

Okafor doesn't have 3 point range, but he can hit an open jumper and has throughout his career.
Not really. for career he is:

10-16 feet - 24/88 - .272%
16 feet-3pt - 84/229 - .367%

He is skilled, he has the touch, but not a jumper.
Those numbers can't be right.  There is no way Okafor has attempted 229 shots from 16 feet to the 3 point line.  Below is the link to bball-ref which had him shooting 35.2% as a rookie from 10-16 which he upped to 38.2% in his second year (he was under 27.5% from 16 feet to 3).  Of the Celtics in the regular rotation this year only Tatum, Baynes, Horford, and Rozier have a better shooting percentage from 10-16 feet than Okafor had in either of his two seasons. 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/okafoja01.html

According to basketball reference, Okafor has taken 1259 shots in his career, and 18.2% of those have been from 10-16 ft.  That calculates as 229 shots.  I think Androslav’s eyes slid over a column from the table.

That said, on mid-range shots (10-16 ft), of which he has taken a substantial number, he’s shooting a very poor 36.7%.
36.7% isn't nearly as" poor" as you think it is.  I mean Steph Curry who is one of the greatest shooters in history is only shooting 45.2% from that range.  Draymond Green is just 30.6% from that range.  Lebron 36.3%.  Love 35.1%. Cousins 33.9%.  Griffin 33.9%.  Anthony 40% (first 6 years his best was 36.6).  George 38.4%.  BBall Reference didn't track that stat until 00/01 season, Duncan from that point on averaged 40.3% from that range (so 4th season to end). 

36.7% for the first two years, is actually pretty good from that range, especially for a big man.

The league average last year from that range was 41.2%.  36.7% is therefore unequivocally below average, about 11 percent worse.  I haven’t found a single page with which to pull every player’s shooting percentages from different distances, but I would be surprised if Okafor was much better than the 25th percentile.  Furthermore, while looking at past players performances at early years of their careers isn’t useless, as defenses have shifted to giving up that shot in exchange for preventing higher value shots, you would expect to see lower percentages for that reason alone (and in fact the shooting rates in the earlier part of the decade were closer to 39% than 41%).
3 Celtics last year shot above 41.2% from that range, yet the team was 41.7%, which yields the conclusion that the better shooters shoot more from that range, which drives the average up.  Given that, I would be interested to see what the median was and not the mean. 

And since you are talking about last year, Okafor was 38.2% last year from that range, showing improvement from year 1 to year 2 as you would expect a 2nd year player to do.  Also, do find it a bit strange to compare a big man to guards or wings on outside shooting, but at least if you are going to do it, do it apples to apples.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: number_n9ne on November 02, 2017, 02:20:46 PM
It's pretty incredible that a player is begging to be bought out, after his 4th year rookie option was declined, and he's being told no. Colangelo is really screwing this up hard. Okafor made a good point that Noel complained, and he got traded, yet Okafor remained a good sport, and he's stuck. I hope they buy him out or move him soon, that organization as an absolute train wreck.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/jahlil-okafor-bryan-colangelo-sixers-buyout-request-rejected-20171101.html
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Green-18 on November 02, 2017, 02:29:11 PM
It's pretty incredible that a player is begging to be bought out, after his 4th year rookie option was declined, and he's being told no. Colangelo is really screwing this up hard. Okafor made a good point that Noel complained, and he got traded, yet Okafor remained a good sport, and he's stuck. I hope they buy him out or move him soon, that organization as an absolute train wreck.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/jahlil-okafor-bryan-colangelo-sixers-buyout-request-rejected-20171101.html

If Okafor is bought out then I want him in green.  Brad is the ideal coach for a reclamation project.  As a fan it's hard not to look towards Okafor's upside when we have one of the coaches most likely to bring it out of him.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: CelticD on November 02, 2017, 02:36:00 PM
It's pretty incredible that a player is begging to be bought out, after his 4th year rookie option was declined, and he's being told no. Colangelo is really screwing this up hard. Okafor made a good point that Noel complained, and he got traded, yet Okafor remained a good sport, and he's stuck. I hope they buy him out or move him soon, that organization as an absolute train wreck.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/jahlil-okafor-bryan-colangelo-sixers-buyout-request-rejected-20171101.html

That organization has some nerve. Completely kill his trade value by not letting him play in a contract year but then turn around and reject a buyout because you want an asset in return for him? Just let the kid leave.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: number_n9ne on November 02, 2017, 02:37:29 PM
It's pretty incredible that a player is begging to be bought out, after his 4th year rookie option was declined, and he's being told no. Colangelo is really screwing this up hard. Okafor made a good point that Noel complained, and he got traded, yet Okafor remained a good sport, and he's stuck. I hope they buy him out or move him soon, that organization as an absolute train wreck.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/jahlil-okafor-bryan-colangelo-sixers-buyout-request-rejected-20171101.html


That organization has some nerve. Completely kill his trade value by not letting him play in a contract year but then turn around and reject a buyout because you want an asset in return for him? Just let the kid leave.

They literally made it a contract year for him...
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on November 02, 2017, 02:43:15 PM
Is Okafor a RFA then? Or because they declined his option, does that make him a UFA? Saltlover?
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: CelticD on November 02, 2017, 02:46:41 PM
It's pretty incredible that a player is begging to be bought out, after his 4th year rookie option was declined, and he's being told no. Colangelo is really screwing this up hard. Okafor made a good point that Noel complained, and he got traded, yet Okafor remained a good sport, and he's stuck. I hope they buy him out or move him soon, that organization as an absolute train wreck.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/jahlil-okafor-bryan-colangelo-sixers-buyout-request-rejected-20171101.html


That organization has some nerve. Completely kill his trade value by not letting him play in a contract year but then turn around and reject a buyout because you want an asset in return for him? Just let the kid leave.

They literally made it a contract year for him...

Oh that's right they didn't pick up his option! Nah the Sixers are completely outta line. I know it's a business but that's pretty foul.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: slamtheking on November 02, 2017, 03:03:01 PM
It's pretty incredible that a player is begging to be bought out, after his 4th year rookie option was declined, and he's being told no. Colangelo is really screwing this up hard. Okafor made a good point that Noel complained, and he got traded, yet Okafor remained a good sport, and he's stuck. I hope they buy him out or move him soon, that organization as an absolute train wreck.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/jahlil-okafor-bryan-colangelo-sixers-buyout-request-rejected-20171101.html


That organization has some nerve. Completely kill his trade value by not letting him play in a contract year but then turn around and reject a buyout because you want an asset in return for him? Just let the kid leave.

They literally made it a contract year for him...

Oh that's right they didn't pick up his option! Nah the Sixers are completely outta line. I know it's a business but that's pretty foul.

that really is a crappy thing for them to do. 

if the C's really are interested AND want to keep the exception available for later this year, I wouldn't be opposed to them sending Nader to the Sixers or a second rounder.  nothing more than that.  the upside of sending Nader (other than I've had enough of him) is that it keeps that 15th spot open for now.  use that exception later in the year to add that last roster spot.  if Hayward comes back, no need to cut anyone under contract to have him join the roster.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: ManUp on November 02, 2017, 03:03:06 PM
Would love to have him as a reclamation project.

I think trading for him would be our best bet assuming its cheap, that way we keep his bird rights.

Maybe Yabu and Nader and a 2nd rounder or something(can't see Philly getting much outside of a 2nd rounder.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: TheSundanceKid on November 02, 2017, 03:19:21 PM
Ainge needs to be patient. Philly aren't gonna keep him all year, at some point he's more of a problem than its worth.

I'd love to see him in green, I think he deserves a proper shot at fulfilling his potential before he's cast aside. We'd be the best spot for him to prove himself and he'd add a dimension we don't have much of right now, a low post presence.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: footey on November 02, 2017, 03:33:00 PM
Would love to have him as a reclamation project.

I think trading for him would be our best bet assuming its cheap, that way we keep his bird rights.

Maybe Yabu and Nader and a 2nd rounder or something(can't see Philly getting much outside of a 2nd rounder.

Am slightly intrigued with getting Okafor, but Yabusele would be an overpay in my estimation. We just don't have enough data on Yabu to determine what his potential value is to the team. He certainly is better suited to play in today's NBA game than Okafor.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Moranis on November 02, 2017, 03:53:08 PM
It's pretty incredible that a player is begging to be bought out, after his 4th year rookie option was declined, and he's being told no. Colangelo is really screwing this up hard. Okafor made a good point that Noel complained, and he got traded, yet Okafor remained a good sport, and he's stuck. I hope they buy him out or move him soon, that organization as an absolute train wreck.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/jahlil-okafor-bryan-colangelo-sixers-buyout-request-rejected-20171101.html


That organization has some nerve. Completely kill his trade value by not letting him play in a contract year but then turn around and reject a buyout because you want an asset in return for him? Just let the kid leave.

They literally made it a contract year for him...

Oh that's right they didn't pick up his option! Nah the Sixers are completely outta line. I know it's a business but that's pretty foul.

that really is a crappy thing for them to do. 

if the C's really are interested AND want to keep the exception available for later this year, I wouldn't be opposed to them sending Nader to the Sixers or a second rounder.  nothing more than that.  the upside of sending Nader (other than I've had enough of him) is that it keeps that 15th spot open for now.  use that exception later in the year to add that last roster spot.  if Hayward comes back, no need to cut anyone under contract to have him join the roster.
except Okafor makes way too much.  Yabu and Nader works financially, but I don't see why Boston would do that just for Okafor.  Makes a lot more sense to just use the DPE and a highly protected 1st for Okafor (something like top 25 protected).
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: saltlover on November 02, 2017, 04:26:04 PM
Is Okafor a RFA then? Or because they declined his option, does that make him a UFA? Saltlover?

UFA, but if a team trades for him or acquired him through waiver, there are restrictions on the Bird rights they can use to offer a contract next season (they exist, but the salary can be no more than what he’s have earned if his option were picked up).
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: drogbagarnett on November 02, 2017, 04:27:45 PM
I think Okafor can still be salvaged, the man clearly has talent. He also has some glaring flaws, but being in such a terrible situation I guess he never saw a path to reach his goals and didn't bother to work on those flaws.

I mean, Philly didn't exactly do right by Nerlens Noel either. The Sixers stupidly drafted elite big men prospects in three consecutive drafts. Only a franchise run by the biggest of idiots does that. It doesn't excuse Okafor from not working on his game, but it does set the stage for bringing out a person's worst traits. Sometime people like that need a better support system to bring out their best.

Which is why I would be content if the C's took a flier on the kid. Maybe a better structure and player development culture is all he needs to be the best version of himself he can be. It's worth the gamble if the cost is low enough, and at this point I'm betting Boston might be able to get him for nothing more than the DPE alone, without including any other assets.

1) So much for "best player available" as the supreme drafting rule when it puts you in such a situation...

2) Could we just get him for the vet min after he clears waiver...??? (Which teams might be able to claim him...?? Could he refuse and join us...?? not too familiar with that waiver process...)
It's just that I want our DPE available at the deadline for a potential trade for a deadly 3pt shooter who can run through screens and can hit the turn around jumper... (a skill that his a HUGE advantage in the playoffs when everyone knows all your plays)
I'm thinking of someone like Belinelli  who is making 6+ million with the Hawks and has only 1 year remaining...
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: hwangjini_1 on November 02, 2017, 05:10:11 PM
I think Okafor can still be salvaged, the man clearly has talent. He also has some glaring flaws, but being in such a terrible situation I guess he never saw a path to reach his goals and didn't bother to work on those flaws.

I mean, Philly didn't exactly do right by Nerlens Noel either. The Sixers stupidly drafted elite big men prospects in three consecutive drafts. Only a franchise run by the biggest of idiots does that. It doesn't excuse Okafor from not working on his game, but it does set the stage for bringing out a person's worst traits. Sometime people like that need a better support system to bring out their best.

Which is why I would be content if the C's took a flier on the kid. Maybe a better structure and player development culture is all he needs to be the best version of himself he can be. It's worth the gamble if the cost is low enough, and at this point I'm betting Boston might be able to get him for nothing more than the DPE alone, without including any other assets.

1) So much for "best player available" as the supreme drafting rule when it puts you in such a situation...

2) Could we just get him for the vet min after he clears waiver...??? (Which teams might be able to claim him...?? Could he refuse and join us...?? not too familiar with that waiver process...)
It's just that I want our DPE available at the deadline for a potential trade for a deadly 3pt shooter who can run through screens and can hit the turn around jumper... (a skill that his a HUGE advantage in the playoffs when everyone knows all your plays)
I'm thinking of someone like Belinelli  who is making 6+ million with the Hawks and has only 1 year remaining...
in this case, wasnt the real problem that philly did NOT pick the best player available and misjudged the talent?
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: fairweatherfan on November 02, 2017, 05:21:13 PM
I think Okafor can still be salvaged, the man clearly has talent. He also has some glaring flaws, but being in such a terrible situation I guess he never saw a path to reach his goals and didn't bother to work on those flaws.

I mean, Philly didn't exactly do right by Nerlens Noel either. The Sixers stupidly drafted elite big men prospects in three consecutive drafts. Only a franchise run by the biggest of idiots does that. It doesn't excuse Okafor from not working on his game, but it does set the stage for bringing out a person's worst traits. Sometime people like that need a better support system to bring out their best.

Which is why I would be content if the C's took a flier on the kid. Maybe a better structure and player development culture is all he needs to be the best version of himself he can be. It's worth the gamble if the cost is low enough, and at this point I'm betting Boston might be able to get him for nothing more than the DPE alone, without including any other assets.

1) So much for "best player available" as the supreme drafting rule when it puts you in such a situation...

2) Could we just get him for the vet min after he clears waiver...??? (Which teams might be able to claim him...?? Could he refuse and join us...?? not too familiar with that waiver process...)
It's just that I want our DPE available at the deadline for a potential trade for a deadly 3pt shooter who can run through screens and can hit the turn around jumper... (a skill that his a HUGE advantage in the playoffs when everyone knows all your plays)
I'm thinking of someone like Belinelli  who is making 6+ million with the Hawks and has only 1 year remaining...
in this case, wasnt the real problem that philly did NOT pick the best player available and misjudged the talent?

Yeah I'm not sure anyone's bemoaning their string of big man picks if they'd taken Porzingis over Okafor.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Celtics4ever on November 02, 2017, 06:00:44 PM
Quote
Yabusele would be an overpay in my estimation.

Is this based on his abnormally high PER?   Because other than that, right now I am not seeing how he is a better player than Okafor. 
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: RJ87 on November 02, 2017, 06:20:46 PM
Quote
Yabusele would be an overpay in my estimation.

Is this based on his abnormally high PER?   Because other than that, right now I am not seeing how he is a better player than Okafor.

C's blog tends to overhype these guys. Just look at pages from last year, where Zizic was supposed to be the future franchise center and missing piece.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: trickybilly on November 02, 2017, 06:37:51 PM
Quote
Yabusele would be an overpay in my estimation.

Is this based on his abnormally high PER?   Because other than that, right now I am not seeing how he is a better player than Okafor.

C's blog tends to overhype these guys. Just look at pages from last year, where Zizic was supposed to be the future franchise center and missing piece.

Well, Zizic is starting for the Cavs, so we will learn more about that guy soon..
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: csfansince60s on November 02, 2017, 07:32:51 PM
I think Okafor can still be salvaged, the man clearly has talent. He also has some glaring flaws, but being in such a terrible situation I guess he never saw a path to reach his goals and didn't bother to work on those flaws.

I mean, Philly didn't exactly do right by Nerlens Noel either. The Sixers stupidly drafted elite big men prospects in three consecutive drafts. Only a franchise run by the biggest of idiots does that. It doesn't excuse Okafor from not working on his game, but it does set the stage for bringing out a person's worst traits. Sometime people like that need a better support system to bring out their best.

Which is why I would be content if the C's took a flier on the kid. Maybe a better structure and player development culture is all he needs to be the best version of himself he can be. It's worth the gamble if the cost is low enough, and at this point I'm betting Boston might be able to get him for nothing more than the DPE alone, without including any other assets.

1) So much for "best player available" as the supreme drafting rule when it puts you in such a situation...

2) Could we just get him for the vet min after he clears waiver...??? (Which teams might be able to claim him...?? Could he refuse and join us...?? not too familiar with that waiver process...)
It's just that I want our DPE available at the deadline for a potential trade for a deadly 3pt shooter who can run through screens and can hit the turn around jumper... (a skill that his a HUGE advantage in the playoffs when everyone knows all your plays)
I'm thinking of someone like Belinelli  who is making 6+ million with the Hawks and has only 1 year remaining...
in this case, wasnt the real problem that philly did NOT pick the best player available and misjudged the talent?

Yeah I'm not sure anyone's bemoaning their string of big man picks if they'd taken Porzingis over Okafor.

Zinger would've either been injured or his development screwed up by this poor excuse for a franchise.

Hinkie and now Colangelo have led this team down a dark, classless path.

Colangelo will let Okafor rot or trade him for nothing, a la Noel, to a Western Conference team before he gives the Cs and Danny a chance at him for peanuts. He looks bad in the Fultz/Tatum swap (at least for the moment), he doesn't want to look like Danny's female dog again.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Big333223 on November 02, 2017, 07:50:04 PM
Can anyone tell me why Okafor isn't seeing any time this season? He's only played in one game and has, apparently, been a healthy scratch in the rest of Philly's games. He claims he wants to play but why isn't he?

I know Philly is messed up right now (see: Markelle Fultz) but he can't even get garbage time minutes?
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: tazzmaniac on November 02, 2017, 07:56:49 PM
I think Okafor can still be salvaged, the man clearly has talent. He also has some glaring flaws, but being in such a terrible situation I guess he never saw a path to reach his goals and didn't bother to work on those flaws.

I mean, Philly didn't exactly do right by Nerlens Noel either. The Sixers stupidly drafted elite big men prospects in three consecutive drafts. Only a franchise run by the biggest of idiots does that. It doesn't excuse Okafor from not working on his game, but it does set the stage for bringing out a person's worst traits. Sometime people like that need a better support system to bring out their best.

Which is why I would be content if the C's took a flier on the kid. Maybe a better structure and player development culture is all he needs to be the best version of himself he can be. It's worth the gamble if the cost is low enough, and at this point I'm betting Boston might be able to get him for nothing more than the DPE alone, without including any other assets.

1) So much for "best player available" as the supreme drafting rule when it puts you in such a situation...

2) Could we just get him for the vet min after he clears waiver...??? (Which teams might be able to claim him...?? Could he refuse and join us...?? not too familiar with that waiver process...)
It's just that I want our DPE available at the deadline for a potential trade for a deadly 3pt shooter who can run through screens and can hit the turn around jumper... (a skill that his a HUGE advantage in the playoffs when everyone knows all your plays)
I'm thinking of someone like Belinelli  who is making 6+ million with the Hawks and has only 1 year remaining...
in this case, wasnt the real problem that philly did NOT pick the best player available and misjudged the talent?

Yeah I'm not sure anyone's bemoaning their string of big man picks if they'd taken Porzingis over Okafor.
The Sixers expected choice was Russell until the Lakers took him.  Porzingis wouldn't work out for the Sixers because he wanted to play for the Knicks which is funny in retrospect.  Porzingis was also looked at as a project.  With Embiid suffering his re-injury, taking Okafor made sense given the situation. 

That draft's top 10 hasn't turned out to be stellar.  Russell traded after 2nd year, 4th year options declined for Okafor and Hezonja, and WCS, Mudiay, Johnson, Kaminsky and Winslow haven't really shown anything. 
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on November 02, 2017, 07:58:25 PM
Quote
Yabusele would be an overpay in my estimation.

Is this based on his abnormally high PER?   Because other than that, right now I am not seeing how he is a better player than Okafor.

Well, Okafor's stock is at an all-time low. Whereas Yabusele is an unproven commodity.

In other words, would you rather have this prize package worth $25 or what's behind door #2.

Also, Yabusele looks poised to be an ideal big in the modern NBA, between his abilities to shoot, attack closeouts, and activity on the boards. If he can lock in on defense, he has potential there as well, but his problem is primarily between the ears.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: tazzmaniac on November 02, 2017, 08:04:13 PM
Can anyone tell me why Okafor isn't seeing any time this season? He's only played in one game and has, apparently, been a healthy scratch in the rest of Philly's games. He claims he wants to play but why isn't he?

I know Philly is messed up right now (see: Markelle Fultz) but he can't even get garbage time minutes?
Except for the big Toronto loss (2nd night on a B2B) where Embiid sat out and Okafor played, all the Sixers games have been close.  They've played a tough schedule and there haven't been garbage minutes.  Stauskas has only played in 2 games for 14 minutes total and he only played that much because Redick and Fultz were out injured. 
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: timpiker on November 02, 2017, 08:17:39 PM
I'd love to have Okafor - especially if its on the cheap.  Did u guys hear Tommy last night?  Hell yes !!!  I believe in Brad.  Brad and the team will make Okafor a very good player !
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Emmette Bryant on November 02, 2017, 08:19:08 PM
I think Okafor can still be salvaged, the man clearly has talent. He also has some glaring flaws, but being in such a terrible situation I guess he never saw a path to reach his goals and didn't bother to work on those flaws.

I mean, Philly didn't exactly do right by Nerlens Noel either. The Sixers stupidly drafted elite big men prospects in three consecutive drafts. Only a franchise run by the biggest of idiots does that. It doesn't excuse Okafor from not working on his game, but it does set the stage for bringing out a person's worst traits. Sometime people like that need a better support system to bring out their best.

Which is why I would be content if the C's took a flier on the kid. Maybe a better structure and player development culture is all he needs to be the best version of himself he can be. It's worth the gamble if the cost is low enough, and at this point I'm betting Boston might be able to get him for nothing more than the DPE alone, without including any other assets.

1) So much for "best player available" as the supreme drafting rule when it puts you in such a situation...

2) Could we just get him for the vet min after he clears waiver...??? (Which teams might be able to claim him...?? Could he refuse and join us...?? not too familiar with that waiver process...)
It's just that I want our DPE available at the deadline for a potential trade for a deadly 3pt shooter who can run through screens and can hit the turn around jumper... (a skill that his a HUGE advantage in the playoffs when everyone knows all your plays)
I'm thinking of someone like Belinelli  who is making 6+ million with the Hawks and has only 1 year remaining...
in this case, wasnt the real problem that philly did NOT pick the best player available and misjudged the talent?

Yeah I'm not sure anyone's bemoaning their string of big man picks if they'd taken Porzingis over Okafor.
The Sixers expected choice was Russell until the Lakers took him.  Porzingis wouldn't work out for the Sixers because he wanted to play for the Knicks which is funny in retrospect.  Porzingis was also looked at as a project.  With Embiid suffering his re-injury, taking Okafor made sense given the situation. 

That draft's top 10 hasn't turned out to be stellar.  Russell traded after 2nd year, 4th year options declined for Okafor and Hezonja, and WCS, Mudiay, Johnson, Kaminsky and Winslow haven't really shown anything.

Looks like Terry Rozier should have been a top 10 pick
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: tazzmaniac on November 02, 2017, 08:25:20 PM
I think Okafor can still be salvaged, the man clearly has talent. He also has some glaring flaws, but being in such a terrible situation I guess he never saw a path to reach his goals and didn't bother to work on those flaws.

I mean, Philly didn't exactly do right by Nerlens Noel either. The Sixers stupidly drafted elite big men prospects in three consecutive drafts. Only a franchise run by the biggest of idiots does that. It doesn't excuse Okafor from not working on his game, but it does set the stage for bringing out a person's worst traits. Sometime people like that need a better support system to bring out their best.

Which is why I would be content if the C's took a flier on the kid. Maybe a better structure and player development culture is all he needs to be the best version of himself he can be. It's worth the gamble if the cost is low enough, and at this point I'm betting Boston might be able to get him for nothing more than the DPE alone, without including any other assets.

1) So much for "best player available" as the supreme drafting rule when it puts you in such a situation...

2) Could we just get him for the vet min after he clears waiver...??? (Which teams might be able to claim him...?? Could he refuse and join us...?? not too familiar with that waiver process...)
It's just that I want our DPE available at the deadline for a potential trade for a deadly 3pt shooter who can run through screens and can hit the turn around jumper... (a skill that his a HUGE advantage in the playoffs when everyone knows all your plays)
I'm thinking of someone like Belinelli  who is making 6+ million with the Hawks and has only 1 year remaining...
in this case, wasnt the real problem that philly did NOT pick the best player available and misjudged the talent?

Yeah I'm not sure anyone's bemoaning their string of big man picks if they'd taken Porzingis over Okafor.
The Sixers expected choice was Russell until the Lakers took him.  Porzingis wouldn't work out for the Sixers because he wanted to play for the Knicks which is funny in retrospect.  Porzingis was also looked at as a project.  With Embiid suffering his re-injury, taking Okafor made sense given the situation. 

That draft's top 10 hasn't turned out to be stellar.  Russell traded after 2nd year, 4th year options declined for Okafor and Hezonja, and WCS, Mudiay, Johnson, Kaminsky and Winslow haven't really shown anything.

Looks like Terry Rozier should have been a top 10 pick
The time to judge that is at the end of their rookie contracts but right now you'd definitely have a big shakeup in a re-draft. 
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: tazzmaniac on November 02, 2017, 08:26:56 PM
Haven't seen it mentioned but Holmes is back and apparently available for tomorrow's game.  Okafor could end up being inactive. 
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: CelticsElite on November 02, 2017, 08:28:46 PM
Assuming @JahlilOkafor did get a buyout, the #Celtics would be the most likely destination for the center.

https://mobile.twitter.com/PompeyOnSixers/status/925781419867205632
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: D Dub on November 02, 2017, 08:49:48 PM
Assuming @JahlilOkafor did get a buyout, the #Celtics would be the most likely destination for the center.

https://mobile.twitter.com/PompeyOnSixers/status/925781419867205632

vomit
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Phantom255x on November 02, 2017, 08:58:20 PM
If he did get bought out, can't we just sign Okafor using VETERAN MINIMUM, while keeping the DPE for later in the season?  ???

Also would we get Okafor's Bird Rights in a trade or not?

(Yeah I know, two different scenarios/questions, but I'm just curious to know).
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: PaulAllen on November 04, 2017, 11:16:59 AM
Take it for its worth but there was an analyst on ESPN this morning that said "a trade was close last week" with the Celtics ... continued to say with a buyout Okafor is most likely to be a Celtic ..

grain of salt but thought I'd share ...
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Phantom255x on November 04, 2017, 12:27:02 PM
Take it for its worth but there was an analyst on ESPN this morning that said "a trade was close last week" with the Celtics ... continued to say with a buyout Okafor is most likely to be a Celtic ..

grain of salt but thought I'd share ...

This feels like it's going to drag on for a while...

I wouldn't mind Okafor on a flier at all, but Ainge will be in no rush to use DPE, but at the same time if he got Okafor he probably would hope he could retain his Bird Rights in some way as well (b/c Ainge is in absolutely no business of acquiring pure rentals via trade).
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: csfansince60s on November 05, 2017, 10:54:09 AM
Looks like the Cs are definitely interested and talks have occurred (ongoing?) but we are unwilling to part with a first round draft pick.

From Washburn today:

Quote
Celtics Unwilling To Trade First Round Pick For Jahlil Okafor

Nov 5, 2017 8:59 AM

 


The Boston Celtics have long had interest in trading for Jahlil Okafor but view him as more of a project player than an immediate contributor.

Boston is unwilling to trade a first round pick to the 76ers for Okafor, who had his 18-19 rookie scale option declined.

Okafor is seeking a buyout from the 76ers as they continue to seek an asset in return for him on the trade market.

Okafor is out of the 76ers' rotation.

Gary Washburn/Boston Globe

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap-amp/247958/Celtics-Unwilling-To-Trade-First-Round-Pick-For-Jahlil-Okafor
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: RJ87 on November 05, 2017, 11:00:14 AM
Quote
Yabusele would be an overpay in my estimation.

Is this based on his abnormally high PER?   Because other than that, right now I am not seeing how he is a better player than Okafor.

C's blog tends to overhype these guys. Just look at pages from last year, where Zizic was supposed to be the future franchise center and missing piece.

Well, Zizic is starting for the Cavs, so we will learn more about that guy soon..

*Looks up Zizic's stats*
I don't think the Cavs got the memo that Zizic is starting for them.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: jpotter33 on November 05, 2017, 11:47:34 AM
At what time do you start making a stink if you're Okafor? I mean, Colangelo is really screwing him over here, and it's mainly just a way to try and save face for the Sixers organization. I also think Colangelo is a little hesitant to deal with Danny again after how this Fultz situation has turned out. There's a little animosity there if you ask me.

If I was Okafor I would give him a deadline in the very near future and say that if he hasn't made a trade by that point, then he would start insisting on a buyout and start making an issue about this to the reporters.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Sophomore on November 05, 2017, 11:54:32 AM
Take it for its worth but there was an analyst on ESPN this morning that said "a trade was close last week" with the Celtics ... continued to say with a buyout Okafor is most likely to be a Celtic ..

grain of salt but thought I'd share ...

This feels like it's going to drag on for a while...

I wouldn't mind Okafor on a flier at all, but Ainge will be in no rush to use DPE, but at the same time if he got Okafor he probably would hope he could retain his Bird Rights in some way as well (b/c Ainge is in absolutely no business of acquiring pure rentals via trade).

 A second round pick could be reasonable.

He doesn't play good defense, but he would be interesting on the second unit. Marcus, as we know, cannot shoot a lick. But he does run a good pick and roll and knows how to feed the post. What if we had Oak in there to make a few ISO buckets? This is a guy who scores well against *starting* post defenders. He's got to be good a few buckets a game, a few trips to the line. Put him in there with our other second unit options – say, Tatum or Morris, who can make their own shots, and catch and shoot players like Semi – if he's willing to pass we might get good scoring out of that unit and put a lot of pressure on the other team.

Whether we could rebound and defend enough with him in the game, and get others enough shots, is another question... The question for Brad and Danny is probably more about his attitude than his tools: is he humbled enough and strong enough to change the way he plays.

Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: CelticD on November 05, 2017, 11:56:20 AM
Looks like the Cs are definitely interested and talks have occurred (ongoing?) but we are unwilling to part with a first round draft pick.

From Washburn today:

Quote
Celtics Unwilling To Trade First Round Pick For Jahlil Okafor

Nov 5, 2017 8:59 AM

 


The Boston Celtics have long had interest in trading for Jahlil Okafor but view him as more of a project player than an immediate contributor.

Boston is unwilling to trade a first round pick to the 76ers for Okafor, who had his 18-19 rookie scale option declined.

Okafor is seeking a buyout from the 76ers as they continue to seek an asset in return for him on the trade market.

Okafor is out of the 76ers' rotation.

Gary Washburn/Boston Globe

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap-amp/247958/Celtics-Unwilling-To-Trade-First-Round-Pick-For-Jahlil-Okafor

I hate the Sixers bro. They clearly don't value Okafor at all, but are still tryna stick up teams for his services? Won't even give anybody the courtesy of seeing him on an NBA court, but are actually haggling over his destroyed trade value.

Like get outta here.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Chief Macho on November 05, 2017, 12:35:02 PM
Colangelo has no balls. just let the kid go have a career.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: KGs Knee on November 05, 2017, 12:38:58 PM
Okafor should file a grievance with the league. If you are going to refuse to play him, than trade him or waive him. Letting him rot on the bench because you don't want him around, but can't find anyone to trade you what you want is shady business.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Snakehead on November 05, 2017, 12:39:12 PM
Yeah if true it's pretty terrible.  I think Okafor will get bought out soon but to not let him go already when you bury him like that I think sucks.  I think he deserved to get some run this year over Amir Johnson.

I think as long as everyone is fine with Okafor not even playing much on the Celtics (barring need for an injury) if it goes that way, I would be in favor of Okafor as a project player.  If you can get him to defend and rebound the guy naturally can score.   He has shown a jumpshot at times too at least to midrange.  He can be a productive NBA player if you can have him develop in those ways.  Maybe he doesn't play much but goes elsewhere, or maybe they can sign him for some time cheap enough, but I think there is no downside.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: KGs Knee on November 05, 2017, 12:53:39 PM
While I'd love to take a flier on Okafor for cheap (i.e. 2nd round pick + DPE), I'm not really sure Boston is a good fit for him.

Okafor needs playing time to find out what he really is in the NBA. He needs to be given the opportunity to play through his mistakes. But Boston really isn't in a position to do that. If he came here he'd be the third string center behind Baynes and Horford, and might even be behind Theis in the rotation as well.

Will Okafor be any happier spending most of his time on the bench here? Maybe just being part of an organization that has its act together would be enough, as Philly really is that bad of a clusterf... but I'm not convinced this is the best situation for him.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: MJohnnyboy on November 05, 2017, 01:02:49 PM
Looks like the Cs are definitely interested and talks have occurred (ongoing?) but we are unwilling to part with a first round draft pick.

From Washburn today:

Quote
Celtics Unwilling To Trade First Round Pick For Jahlil Okafor

Nov 5, 2017 8:59 AM

 


The Boston Celtics have long had interest in trading for Jahlil Okafor but view him as more of a project player than an immediate contributor.

Boston is unwilling to trade a first round pick to the 76ers for Okafor, who had his 18-19 rookie scale option declined.

Okafor is seeking a buyout from the 76ers as they continue to seek an asset in return for him on the trade market.

Okafor is out of the 76ers' rotation.

Gary Washburn/Boston Globe

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap-amp/247958/Celtics-Unwilling-To-Trade-First-Round-Pick-For-Jahlil-Okafor

Sounds like Philly is scared of what Brad could do with Okafor given his history with other failed Philly lottery picks...

It seems inevitable that one way or another, Okafor will be a Celtic. And if that previous sentence winds up jinxing the situation, who cares?
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: tazzmaniac on November 05, 2017, 01:10:09 PM
Okafor should file a grievance with the league. If you are going to refuse to play him, than trade him or waive him. Letting him rot on the bench because you don't want him around, but can't find anyone to trade you what you want is shady business.
Colangelo is definitely shady but Okafor has no grievance.  He's getting paid ~5M for the last year of his contract.  The Suns aren't playing Bledsoe while they wait for a trade offer they like.  Should he file a grievance to? 

It is funny to hear the griping now with Colangelo, the basketball guy, in charge.  His handling of Noel and Okafor is a nice contrast to Hinkie's handling of MCW. 
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: CelticsElite on November 05, 2017, 01:30:44 PM
Seems like Celtics have been in long discussions for okafor

The amir Johnson sign and trade fell apart

And now the pick discussions did too. They're asking for too much for okafor

Buy him out already
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: KGs Knee on November 05, 2017, 01:35:33 PM
Okafor should file a grievance with the league. If you are going to refuse to play him, than trade him or waive him. Letting him rot on the bench because you don't want him around, but can't find anyone to trade you what you want is shady business.
Colangelo is definitely shady but Okafor has no grievance.  He's getting paid ~5M for the last year of his contract.  The Suns aren't playing Bledsoe while they wait for a trade offer they like.  Should he file a grievance to? 

It is funny to hear the griping now with Colangelo, the basketball guy, in charge.  His handling of Noel and Okafor is a nice contrast to Hinkie's handling of MCW. 


Players can file grievance through the union. The league then has to respond.

While Okafor would most likely lose a hearing, it would mainly be for lack of proof. But it's obvious Philly is intentionally not playing Okafor simply because they don't want him there, not because he isn't good enough to play. The NBA typically frowns upon that crap, and if Okafor did file a grievance could probably get the league to at least strongly "recommend" Philly do something. It's painfully obvious right now Philly is being unrealistic, and probably also a bit spiteful, to the detriment of Okafor.

Bledsoe is a totally different situation. Bledsoe was the starter before he blasted the team and demanded to be traded. The order of events is key.

As for Colqngelo, well, he's been better than Hinkie in terms of bringing in vets to help the team form an identity. He's helped the team move forward. But Hinkie handled the MCW situation far better than Colangelo did with either Noel or Okafor. Colangelo completely screwed up with both big men, while Hinkie sold MCW at peak value.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Casperian on November 05, 2017, 01:38:04 PM
...and here I thought I couldn't hate this team any more.

smh
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Ilikesports17 on November 05, 2017, 01:56:59 PM
...and here I thought I couldn't hate this team any more.

smh
I admire the consistency of moaning about this team. I personally would have thought it near impossible to watch these first 9 games and not come away with at least some small level of excitement for the team.

Your ability to stick to your guns and hate this team is pretty impressive. Props.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: konkmv on November 05, 2017, 02:39:42 PM
Even he comes he will play behind Haynes and theis is at first...
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Eddie20 on November 05, 2017, 03:04:26 PM
Even he comes he will play behind Haynes and theis is at first...

And besides those two he'll also be behind Baynes.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: tazzmaniac on November 05, 2017, 03:05:28 PM
Okafor should file a grievance with the league. If you are going to refuse to play him, than trade him or waive him. Letting him rot on the bench because you don't want him around, but can't find anyone to trade you what you want is shady business.
Colangelo is definitely shady but Okafor has no grievance.  He's getting paid ~5M for the last year of his contract.  The Suns aren't playing Bledsoe while they wait for a trade offer they like.  Should he file a grievance to? 

It is funny to hear the griping now with Colangelo, the basketball guy, in charge.  His handling of Noel and Okafor is a nice contrast to Hinkie's handling of MCW. 


Players can file grievance through the union. The league then has to respond.

While Okafor would most likely lose a hearing, it would mainly be for lack of proof. But it's obvious Philly is intentionally not playing Okafor simply because they don't want him there, not because he isn't good enough to play. The NBA typically frowns upon that crap, and if Okafor did file a grievance could probably get the league to at least strongly "recommend" Philly do something. It's painfully obvious right now Philly is being unrealistic, and probably also a bit spiteful, to the detriment of Okafor.

Bledsoe is a totally different situation. Bledsoe was the starter before he blasted the team and demanded to be traded. The order of events is key.

As for Colqngelo, well, he's been better than Hinkie in terms of bringing in vets to help the team form an identity. He's helped the team move forward. But Hinkie handled the MCW situation far better than Colangelo did with either Noel or Okafor. Colangelo completely screwed up with both big men, while Hinkie sold MCW at peak value.
Okafor is the Sixers 4th best center.  Embiid, Amir and Holmes are better than him especially since Coach Brown's mantra is defense, pace and space.  Okafor doesn't check any of those boxes.  He's one of the worst defenders in the league.  They played him in the Toronto game (Embiid sat out and Holmes injured) which was a 30 point blowout loss.  They are trying to make the playoffs not tank this year. 

They also sat Bledsoe for 20 games at the end of last season even though he was perfectly healthy so they could go into full tank mode.   Which totally p---ed Bledsoe off.

Hinkie was tanking hard.  He was smart enough to know bringing most veterans into that situation was a bad idea.  There aren't many veterans that are good mentors in losing situations like that and he didn't want meaningless wins.  He did have Mbah a Moute one season and later Ish Smith. 

Colangelo has mostly followed Hinkie's approach.   Last season their veterans were Henderson, Bayless (bad 3 year contract and only played 3 games), Rodriguez (from Europe so not much of a vet).  He did trade for Illyasova early but then he traded him before the deadline.  This season their veterans were upgraded to Redick and Amir but both are on 1 year deals and they still have Bayless.  So other than Bayless which was a poor decision Colangelo hasn't commited multiyear money to any vets. 
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: celticsclay on November 05, 2017, 04:24:57 PM
Okafor should file a grievance with the league. If you are going to refuse to play him, than trade him or waive him. Letting him rot on the bench because you don't want him around, but can't find anyone to trade you what you want is shady business.
Colangelo is definitely shady but Okafor has no grievance.  He's getting paid ~5M for the last year of his contract.  The Suns aren't playing Bledsoe while they wait for a trade offer they like.  Should he file a grievance to? 

It is funny to hear the griping now with Colangelo, the basketball guy, in charge.  His handling of Noel and Okafor is a nice contrast to Hinkie's handling of MCW. 


Players can file grievance through the union. The league then has to respond.

While Okafor would most likely lose a hearing, it would mainly be for lack of proof. But it's obvious Philly is intentionally not playing Okafor simply because they don't want him there, not because he isn't good enough to play. The NBA typically frowns upon that crap, and if Okafor did file a grievance could probably get the league to at least strongly "recommend" Philly do something. It's painfully obvious right now Philly is being unrealistic, and probably also a bit spiteful, to the detriment of Okafor.

Bledsoe is a totally different situation. Bledsoe was the starter before he blasted the team and demanded to be traded. The order of events is key.

As for Colqngelo, well, he's been better than Hinkie in terms of bringing in vets to help the team form an identity. He's helped the team move forward. But Hinkie handled the MCW situation far better than Colangelo did with either Noel or Okafor. Colangelo completely screwed up with both big men, while Hinkie sold MCW at peak value.
Okafor is the Sixers 4th best center.  Embiid, Amir and Holmes are better than him especially since Coach Brown's mantra is defense, pace and space.  Okafor doesn't check any of those boxes.  He's one of the worst defenders in the league.  They played him in the Toronto game (Embiid sat out and Holmes injured) which was a 30 point blowout loss.  They are trying to make the playoffs not tank this year. 

They also sat Bledsoe for 20 games at the end of last season even though he was perfectly healthy so they could go into full tank mode.   Which totally p---ed Bledsoe off.

Hinkie was tanking hard.  He was smart enough to know bringing most veterans into that situation was a bad idea.  There aren't many veterans that are good mentors in losing situations like that and he didn't want meaningless wins.  He did have Mbah a Moute one season and later Ish Smith. 

Colangelo has mostly followed Hinkie's approach.   Last season their veterans were Henderson, Bayless (bad 3 year contract and only played 3 games), Rodriguez (from Europe so not much of a vet).  He did trade for Illyasova early but then he traded him before the deadline.  This season their veterans were upgraded to Redick and Amir but both are on 1 year deals and they still have Bayless.  So other than Bayless which was a poor decision Colangelo hasn't commited multiyear money to any vets.
Man you are all over the forum defending philly against any potential grievance. I like their players but this is over the top
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: triboy16f on November 05, 2017, 05:03:18 PM
I predict Okafor will be a Celtic soon

But i wonder whose min he is going to eat in order to get playing time....

Celtics give up multiple 2nds and maybe Nader or Bird
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: tazzmaniac on November 05, 2017, 05:19:17 PM
Okafor should file a grievance with the league. If you are going to refuse to play him, than trade him or waive him. Letting him rot on the bench because you don't want him around, but can't find anyone to trade you what you want is shady business.
Colangelo is definitely shady but Okafor has no grievance.  He's getting paid ~5M for the last year of his contract.  The Suns aren't playing Bledsoe while they wait for a trade offer they like.  Should he file a grievance to? 

It is funny to hear the griping now with Colangelo, the basketball guy, in charge.  His handling of Noel and Okafor is a nice contrast to Hinkie's handling of MCW. 


Players can file grievance through the union. The league then has to respond.

While Okafor would most likely lose a hearing, it would mainly be for lack of proof. But it's obvious Philly is intentionally not playing Okafor simply because they don't want him there, not because he isn't good enough to play. The NBA typically frowns upon that crap, and if Okafor did file a grievance could probably get the league to at least strongly "recommend" Philly do something. It's painfully obvious right now Philly is being unrealistic, and probably also a bit spiteful, to the detriment of Okafor.

Bledsoe is a totally different situation. Bledsoe was the starter before he blasted the team and demanded to be traded. The order of events is key.

As for Colqngelo, well, he's been better than Hinkie in terms of bringing in vets to help the team form an identity. He's helped the team move forward. But Hinkie handled the MCW situation far better than Colangelo did with either Noel or Okafor. Colangelo completely screwed up with both big men, while Hinkie sold MCW at peak value.
Okafor is the Sixers 4th best center.  Embiid, Amir and Holmes are better than him especially since Coach Brown's mantra is defense, pace and space.  Okafor doesn't check any of those boxes.  He's one of the worst defenders in the league.  They played him in the Toronto game (Embiid sat out and Holmes injured) which was a 30 point blowout loss.  They are trying to make the playoffs not tank this year. 

They also sat Bledsoe for 20 games at the end of last season even though he was perfectly healthy so they could go into full tank mode.   Which totally p---ed Bledsoe off.

Hinkie was tanking hard.  He was smart enough to know bringing most veterans into that situation was a bad idea.  There aren't many veterans that are good mentors in losing situations like that and he didn't want meaningless wins.  He did have Mbah a Moute one season and later Ish Smith. 

Colangelo has mostly followed Hinkie's approach.   Last season their veterans were Henderson, Bayless (bad 3 year contract and only played 3 games), Rodriguez (from Europe so not much of a vet).  He did trade for Illyasova early but then he traded him before the deadline.  This season their veterans were upgraded to Redick and Amir but both are on 1 year deals and they still have Bayless.  So other than Bayless which was a poor decision Colangelo hasn't commited multiyear money to any vets.
Man you are all over the forum defending philly against any potential grievance. I like their players but this is over the top
Just bringing some reasonableness into the over the top Sixers bashing that goes on around here.  That doesn't mean that there aren't reasonable criticisms. 

Definitely not defending Colangelo.  He's a slimy snake.  He's certainly botched things with Noel and Okafor.  I thought for sure he'd trade Okafor during the draft under the cover of the Fultz pick.  There's just no valid grievance for Okafor.  Okafor is a lousy NBA player at the moment who shouldn't be playing other than garbage minutes.  The Sixers don't owe Okafor anything.  He's getting paid and they gave him plenty of minutes his 1st two seasons to prove himself.  Okafor hasn't to my knowledge offered to give back any of his salary in a buyout.  If Colangelo can't get a deal worked out by December or January at the latest I do think he should just let Okafor go.   
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: tazzmaniac on November 05, 2017, 05:29:47 PM
I predict Okafor will be a Celtic soon

But i wonder whose min he is going to eat in order to get playing time....

Celtics give up multiple 2nds and maybe Nader or Bird
Who is on our g-league team?   

The problem is we have to salary match in a trade.  Nader doesn't make near enough to do so. 

Bird is on a 2way contract so I'm not sure he could even be included in the trade or what his salary match would be.  Also the Sixers already have their two 2way contract players. 
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: triboy16f on November 05, 2017, 05:31:39 PM
I predict Okafor will be a Celtic soon

But i wonder whose min he is going to eat in order to get playing time....

Celtics give up multiple 2nds and maybe Nader or Bird
Who is on our g-league team?   

The problem is we have to salary match in a trade.  Nader doesn't make near enough to do so. 

Bird is on a 2way contract so I'm not sure he could even be included in the trade or what his salary match would be.  Also the Sixers already have their two 2way contract players.

I could be wrong about this, but don't we have the disability trade exception we can use in this situation?
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: CelticsElite on November 05, 2017, 05:32:45 PM
I predict Okafor will be a Celtic soon

But i wonder whose min he is going to eat in order to get playing time....

Celtics give up multiple 2nds and maybe Nader or Bird
Who is on our g-league team?   

The problem is we have to salary match in a trade.  Nader doesn't make near enough to do so. 

Bird is on a 2way contract so I'm not sure he could even be included in the trade or what his salary match would be.  Also the Sixers already have their two 2way contract players.
what makes you think we would give up 2nd rounders for a rental of a 15th man
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: PAOBoston on November 05, 2017, 06:05:01 PM
Unless this guy gets bought out, he's not coming to Boston.

No way Ainge trades any assets for the #15 guy on the roster.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: triboy16f on November 05, 2017, 08:23:23 PM
trade idea

To Celtics: Okafor
To 76ers: Yabusele, Nader, 2nd round pick  (2020)

Rotation

Baynes
AL
Tatum
Brown
Kyrie

Okafor
Morris
Semi
Smart
Rozier


Whoever gives up a 1st or multiple 2nds will win in the Okafor sweepstakes.  Just doubt there is much of a lineup at all

Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: BringToughnessBack on November 05, 2017, 08:27:18 PM
Starting to believe if there is one coach and one system that could turn his career around, it is ours. Whose time will he take away though?

Heavily protected first(to 24) and Sullys ghost for Okafor? Actually Sully is doing fine in China scoring 50 a game😁
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: rondohondo on November 05, 2017, 10:00:51 PM
The Boston Celtics have long had interest in trading for Jahlil Okafor but view him as more of a project player than an  contributor.

Boston is unwilling to trade a first round pick to the 76ers for Okafor, who had his 18-19 rookie scale option declined.

Okafor is seeking a buyout from the 76ers as they continue to seek an asset in return for him on the trade market
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: nickagneta on November 05, 2017, 10:37:35 PM
trade idea

To Celtics: Okafor
To 76ers: Yabusele, Nader, 2nd round pick  (2020)

Rotation

Baynes
AL
Tatum
Brown
Kyrie

Okafor
Morris
Semi
Smart
Rozier


Whoever gives up a 1st or multiple 2nds will win in the Okafor sweepstakes.  Just doubt there is much of a lineup at all
No way Okafor is in this rotation. With Morris back and Theis showing he has defensive chops, Okafor would be the 13th man on this team.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: spikelovetheCelts on November 06, 2017, 12:27:46 PM
Philly has no leverage. I see a buyout coming. They don't need another second round pick either.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Surferdad on November 06, 2017, 12:44:19 PM
trade idea

To Celtics: Okafor
To 76ers: Yabusele, Nader, 2nd round pick  (2020)

Rotation

Baynes
AL
Tatum
Brown
Kyrie

Okafor
Morris
Semi
Smart
Rozier


Whoever gives up a 1st or multiple 2nds will win in the Okafor sweepstakes.  Just doubt there is much of a lineup at all
No lineup, obviously, or a trade would have happened already.  Regarding your trade proposal, just WOW.  Wait a week and claim him off the wire, DON'T give up valuable assets!
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: GreenShooter on November 06, 2017, 12:53:52 PM
Philly has no leverage. I see a buyout coming. They don't need another second round pick either.
Agree completely. Even though one of the picks from below will be coming our way, it's still too many for Philly to ask for any more picks from other teams if they want to trade Okafor. The only reason they would ask for a 1st rounder is to trade it for another chip.

See below from Real GM of incoming picks to Philly:

2018 first round draft pick from L.A. Lakers
L.A. Lakers' 2018 1st round pick to Philadelphia (via Phoenix) or to Boston (via Phoenix to Philadelphia) protected for selections 1 and 6-30; if this pick falls on any of its protected selections and is therefore retained by Philadelphia, then Boston will instead receive the more favorable of Philadelphia's 2019 1st round pick protected for selection 1 and Sacramento's 2019 1st round pick protected for selection 1 (via Philadelphia) and Philadelphia will receive the less favorable or the protected of these two picks [L.A. Lakers-Phoenix, 7/11/2012; Milwaukee-Philadelphia-Phoenix, 2/19/2015; Philadelphia-Sacramento, 7/9/2015; Boston-Philadelphia, 6/19/2017]; the 2019 pick conveyance is included in "2019 first round draft pick from Philadelphia or Sacramento" on Boston Incoming

2018 second round draft pick from Cleveland or Brooklyn (more favorable)
Philadelphia will receive the more favorable of Cleveland's 2018 2nd round pick and Brooklyn's 2018 2nd round pick and Charlotte will receive the less favorable of these two picks (via Philadelphia's right to swap Cleveland for Brooklyn) [Cleveland-Philadelphia, 9/26/2014; Brooklyn-Philadelphia, 12/11/2014; Brooklyn-Charlotte, 6/25/2015]

2018 second round draft pick from Houston
Houston's 2018 2nd round pick to Philadelphia [Houston-Philadelphia, 6/28/2017]

2018 second round draft pick from L.A. Clippers or New York (more favorable)
Philadelphia will receive the more favorable of the L.A. Clippers' 2018 2nd round pick and New York's 2018 2nd round pick and New York will receive the less favorable of these two picks (via Philadelphia's right to swap L.A. Clippers for New York) [L.A. Clippers-Philadelphia, 2/20/2014; New York-Philadelphia, 10/27/2014]

2019 first round draft pick from Sacramento
If Philadelphia conveys the L.A. Lakers' 2018 1st round pick to Boston, then Sacramento's 2019 1st round pick to Philadelphia; if Philadelphia does not convey the L.A. Lakers' 2018 1st round pick to Boston, then Boston will instead receive the more favorable of Philadelphia's 2019 1st round pick protected for selection 1 and Sacramento's 2019 1st round pick protected for selection 1 (via Philadelphia) and Philadelphia will receive the less favorable or the protected of these two picks [L.A. Lakers-Phoenix, 7/11/2012; Milwaukee-Philadelphia-Phoenix, 2/19/2015; Philadelphia-Sacramento, 7/9/2015; Boston-Philadelphia, 6/19/2017]; this pick conveyance is included in "2018 first round draft pick from L.A. Lakers" on Boston Incoming

2019 second round draft pick from Milwaukee or Sacramento (more favorable)
Philadelphia will receive the more favorable of Milwaukee's 2019 2nd round pick and Sacramento's 2019 2nd round pick and Sacramento will receive the less favorable of these two picks (via Philadelphia's right to swap Milwaukee for Sacramento (via Brooklyn)) [Milwaukee-Sacramento, 7/12/2013; Brooklyn-Milwaukee, 6/30/2014; Brooklyn-Philadelphia, 10/24/2014]

2019 second round draft pick from New York
New York's 2019 2nd round pick to Philadelphia [New York-Philadelphia, 10/27/2014]

2020 second round draft pick from Brooklyn or New York (more favorable)
Philadelphia will receive the more favorable of Brooklyn's 2020 2nd round pick and New York's 2020 2nd round pick and Orlando will receive the less favorable of these two picks (via Philadelphia) [Brooklyn-Philadelphia, 12/11/2014; New York-Philadelphia, 6/26/2015; Orlando-Philadelphia, 6/22/2017]

2020 second round draft pick from Dallas
Dallas' 2020 2nd round pick to Philadelphia [Dallas-Philadelphia, 2/23/2017]

2021 second round draft pick from New York
New York's 2021 2nd round pick to Philadelphia [New York-Philadelphia, 6/26/2015]
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Phantom255x on November 07, 2017, 12:42:07 PM
With Bledsoe to Milwaukee, I really want to see us make an effort to nab Okafor

Even if off the bench or as a fringe starter, he can give us an even "bigger" edge and help especially with scoring and post-play.

We thought Kyrie's defense was horrible, but it's actually looked decent.

Under CBS and playing under a playoff team, Okafor will be motivated to try more on defense and I'm sure if he can at least be average on that end, he can be a weapon for this team.

This guy averaged 17/7 in his ROOKIE season, but let's be real, PHI pretty much kicked him to the curb after that and focused more on Embiid, Saric, Noel.

He's 21, young, and to me has a lot of untapped potential which can be reached with good coaching/system. He would definitely also have a chip on his shoulder and guys like that have thrived here.

I wouldn't mind using DPE on him via trade w/2nd rounders + Nader, and then keep that additional roster spot (from trading Nader) for a VET MIN signing later this season (when guys get bought out).

PHI really doesn't have leverage and no team is giving up a first rounder or good role player for him either. They've killed his value at this point. Look at the Suns return for Bledsoe. Not horrible but not the best at all either (should have got more but couldn't).

And yes, I obviously love our size, but our depth is thin there too. If, god forbid, Baynes or Horford get injured and miss a lot of time, that could be detrimental to us at those positions for some time.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: konkmv on November 07, 2017, 12:54:06 PM
I do
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: smokeablount on November 07, 2017, 01:52:42 PM
...and here I thought I couldn't hate this team any more.

smh

Yeah, I also hate when my NBA team is on pace for 60 wins while battling through more adversity than any other team in the league. 

I also hate going on vacation, puppies, and winning Powerball.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: mef730 on November 07, 2017, 02:50:54 PM
...and here I thought I couldn't hate this team any more.

smh

Yeah, I also hate when my NBA team is on pace for 60 wins while battling through more adversity than any other team in the league. 

I also hate going on vacation, puppies, and winning Powerball.

I just assumed he was talking about Philly.

Mike
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: smokeablount on November 07, 2017, 05:23:25 PM
...and here I thought I couldn't hate this team any more.

smh

Yeah, I also hate when my NBA team is on pace for 60 wins while battling through more adversity than any other team in the league. 

I also hate going on vacation, puppies, and winning Powerball.

I just assumed he was talking about Philly.

Mike

Oh I remembered him being super doom and gloom after the trade.  But he probably was talking about Philly since hating this Celtics team would be unfathomable.

I'd definitely take a flier on Okafor after a buy out and I'd trade a 2nd rounder for him if he'd sign a 2-3 year deal with us.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: celticsclay on November 07, 2017, 09:36:01 PM
Philly dusted him off tonight and played him
3 fouls in 2 minutes lol
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Dannys Chipotle Guy on November 07, 2017, 09:40:09 PM
Philly dusted him off tonight and played him
When people talked about "winning culture" I feel like the thing that is really lost with a losing culture is the development of guys like Jah and Nerlens.

Both those guys were really good prospects who have been treated like garbage in Philly and its done a ton of damage to their careers.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: jdz101 on November 07, 2017, 09:59:33 PM
Philly dusted him off tonight and played him
3 fouls in 2 minutes lol

Probably the worst shift I've seen from an NBA big man for a while.

Absolutely deplorable.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Phantom255x on November 07, 2017, 10:01:04 PM
Philly dusted him off tonight and played him
When people talked about "winning culture" I feel like the thing that is really lost with a losing culture is the development of guys like Jah and Nerlens.

Both those guys were really good prospects who have been treated like garbage in Philly and its done a ton of damage to their careers.

THIS.

Okafor and Noel aren't bad players at all, but PHI hampered their growth and sort of kicked them to the curb in favor of others.

That's what happens when you keep tanking and selecting Top-5 picks for so many years. Soon you get "sick" of a few or can't have more than 2 at a same position.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: celticsclay on November 07, 2017, 10:11:29 PM
Philly dusted him off tonight and played him
3 fouls in 2 minutes lol

Probably the worst shift I've seen from an NBA big man for a while.

Absolutely deplorable.

Also had his shot block and a turnover
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Granath on November 07, 2017, 10:15:33 PM
Philly dusted him off tonight and played him
When people talked about "winning culture" I feel like the thing that is really lost with a losing culture is the development of guys like Jah and Nerlens.

Both those guys were really good prospects who have been treated like garbage in Philly and its done a ton of damage to their careers.

TP for this.

I said a couple of years ago that one of the major flaws in Hinkie's strategy was that the culture of losing has great ramifications to prospects. With no attempt to win games incoming young players learn - or get away with - bad habits and poor work ethics. After all, these poor habits actually help the team in achieving its goal, which is to lose games. The damage that this does on the psyche of some young players can be incalculable. 

Team culture matters. That is the reason why the Clippers were so bad for many years despite having some good players from time to time. That is why the Jail Blazers existed. That is why the Bengals have imploded for many years. When that kind of environment is created, it allows some players to indulge in their predisposed bad habits. In this particular case, I don't think it's any mystery why the two guys who had to suffer the longest in that culture of losing both wanted off that team. Philly sabotaged their own prospects by creating a poisonous environment.

We've seen time and time again where a bad seed somehow finds redemption on the right team. We've also seen players who despite great opportunities failed to overcome their bad habits (aka Sullinger's eating). I don't know if Okafor can be redeemed. I do believe that, properly motivated, he has a place in the NBA.

That being said, I wouldn't give up much of anything to get him. A 2nd round pick would be all. Bring him in under the injury exemption, let him learn from some veterans like Horford and see how he reacts. The worst thing that could happen is that we burn a 2nd rounder and that exemption. If Philly wants more then let them go find a team wiling to offer it.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: nickagneta on November 07, 2017, 10:19:00 PM
Philly dusted him off tonight and played him
When people talked about "winning culture" I feel like the thing that is really lost with a losing culture is the development of guys like Jah and Nerlens.

Both those guys were really good prospects who have been treated like garbage in Philly and its done a ton of damage to their careers.

THIS.

Okafor and Noel aren't bad players at all, but PHI hampered their growth and sort of kicked them to the curb in favor of others.

That's what happens when you keep tanking and selecting Top-5 picks for so many years. Soon you get "sick" of a few or can't have more than 2 at a same position.
Philly hasn't really developed anyone drafted high in the draft. Embiid has been this good since he first stepped on the floor. Neither Nerlens nor Okafor are any better now than when they were rookies. Fultz and Okafor look as if they have regressed. I know Brown is known as a developmental coach but he has done nothing with the talent Philly has drafted high in the draft. I don't blame the front office for the handling of these players, I blame the coach and medical team.

Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: celticsclay on November 08, 2017, 12:38:44 PM
I feel like Brent Brown should get credit for developing TJ McConnel and Rob Covington. I do think it is fair to think that Okafor may be a victim of the process. He was the one terrible pick that they really made for the wrong reasons.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: GreenShooter on November 08, 2017, 01:13:48 PM
I have no idea what's happened with Okafor but, albeit on a poor offensive team, in his rookie year, at age 20, he averaged 17 PPG, 7 RPG, shot 51% FG & 69%FT in 30 minutes per game. It's all been down hill since but I wouldn't mind taking a flier on him once he is bought out or released. I doubt he gets traded but it's not impossible. He's just not made for this system so I don't think DA (or Brad) has much interest, or at least no where near what he had after his rookie season.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Moranis on November 09, 2017, 10:06:46 AM
Suns are apparently interested but they want to move Monroe in the trade.  Bucks are also apparently now interested in having Okafor be a cheaper Monroe replacement (at least for the season).  Couple of other teams expressed interest in the past, including Boston. 

Obviously no one has put forth an offer acceptable to Colangelo, but I think someone will eventually pull the trigger on a trade.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: TA9 on November 24, 2017, 03:45:10 PM
Quote
The Sixers were closing out the Portland Trail Blazers with ease on Wednesday night, and with a 22-point lead late in the fourth quarter it seemed like everybody was getting a chance to play. Everybody except Jahlil Okafor. The fans took notice and spoke up: “We want Okafor!” Egged on by Joel Embiid, the crowd chanted over and over, roaring their plea for Okafor to take the court. The player who once led the team in scoring quietly stayed on the bench

To just hoist somebody a little tiny window of minutes isn’t something that interests me,” Brown said after the 101-81 win against Portland. “I say that out of respect to [Okafor]. I don’t think that puts him in a position that I want to put him in.”

Barring an injury to Embiid, it seems like Okafor isn't going to play at all for the 76ers this season. Not a big fan of their way of handling the situation. Why not let the player leave instead of keeping him hostage on the bench??
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: nickagneta on November 24, 2017, 05:11:23 PM
Quote
The Sixers were closing out the Portland Trail Blazers with ease on Wednesday night, and with a 22-point lead late in the fourth quarter it seemed like everybody was getting a chance to play. Everybody except Jahlil Okafor. The fans took notice and spoke up: “We want Okafor!” Egged on by Joel Embiid, the crowd chanted over and over, roaring their plea for Okafor to take the court. The player who once led the team in scoring quietly stayed on the bench

To just hoist somebody a little tiny window of minutes isn’t something that interests me,” Brown said after the 101-81 win against Portland. “I say that out of respect to [Okafor]. I don’t think that puts him in a position that I want to put him in.”

Barring an injury to Embiid, it seems like Okafor isn't going to play at all for the 76ers this season. Not a big fan of their way of handling the situation. Why not let the player leave instead of keeping him hostage on the bench??
Dallas is doing the same thing with Noel. I wonder if its an attitude problem with both of them. That two separate franchises are doing the same thing to two players that were on the same team whose management fostered a losing environment on purpose seems likes it no coincidental.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: Phantom255x on November 25, 2017, 11:59:58 AM
Quote
The Sixers were closing out the Portland Trail Blazers with ease on Wednesday night, and with a 22-point lead late in the fourth quarter it seemed like everybody was getting a chance to play. Everybody except Jahlil Okafor. The fans took notice and spoke up: “We want Okafor!” Egged on by Joel Embiid, the crowd chanted over and over, roaring their plea for Okafor to take the court. The player who once led the team in scoring quietly stayed on the bench

To just hoist somebody a little tiny window of minutes isn’t something that interests me,” Brown said after the 101-81 win against Portland. “I say that out of respect to [Okafor]. I don’t think that puts him in a position that I want to put him in.”

Barring an injury to Embiid, it seems like Okafor isn't going to play at all for the 76ers this season. Not a big fan of their way of handling the situation. Why not let the player leave instead of keeping him hostage on the bench??
Dallas is doing the same thing with Noel. I wonder if its an attitude problem with both of them. That two separate franchises are doing the same thing to two players that were on the same team whose management fostered a losing environment on purpose seems likes it no coincidental.

I mean, Noel CAN'T be happy about that. Guy gambled on himself hoping to have a good season to get a good contract this summer.

Not playing much does not help him one bit.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: SHAQATTACK on November 25, 2017, 12:06:48 PM
Quote
The Sixers were closing out the Portland Trail Blazers with ease on Wednesday night, and with a 22-point lead late in the fourth quarter it seemed like everybody was getting a chance to play. Everybody except Jahlil Okafor. The fans took notice and spoke up: “We want Okafor!” Egged on by Joel Embiid, the crowd chanted over and over, roaring their plea for Okafor to take the court. The player who once led the team in scoring quietly stayed on the bench

To just hoist somebody a little tiny window of minutes isn’t something that interests me,” Brown said after the 101-81 win against Portland. “I say that out of respect to [Okafor]. I don’t think that puts him in a position that I want to put him in.”

Barring an injury to Embiid, it seems like Okafor isn't going to play at all for the 76ers this season. Not a big fan of their way of handling the situation. Why not let the player leave instead of keeping him hostage on the bench??

protecting the process legacy.   The amount of top picks they have taken and traded off is amazing .  Letting him go cheapens the sucking on purpose team building program.  .  Years of loosing ,throwing games on purpose to get picks they never kept or were bad picks .  Another BIG .....every pick seemed to be the same type player .....knowing they can't keep five centers and pay them. 
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: moiso on November 25, 2017, 01:02:39 PM
Quote
The Sixers were closing out the Portland Trail Blazers with ease on Wednesday night, and with a 22-point lead late in the fourth quarter it seemed like everybody was getting a chance to play. Everybody except Jahlil Okafor. The fans took notice and spoke up: “We want Okafor!” Egged on by Joel Embiid, the crowd chanted over and over, roaring their plea for Okafor to take the court. The player who once led the team in scoring quietly stayed on the bench

To just hoist somebody a little tiny window of minutes isn’t something that interests me,” Brown said after the 101-81 win against Portland. “I say that out of respect to [Okafor]. I don’t think that puts him in a position that I want to put him in.”

Barring an injury to Embiid, it seems like Okafor isn't going to play at all for the 76ers this season. Not a big fan of their way of handling the situation. Why not let the player leave instead of keeping him hostage on the bench??
Dallas is doing the same thing with Noel. I wonder if its an attitude problem with both of them. That two separate franchises are doing the same thing to two players that were on the same team whose management fostered a losing environment on purpose seems likes it no coincidental.

I mean, Noel CAN'T be happy about that. Guy gambled on himself hoping to have a good season to get a good contract this summer.

Not playing much does not help him one bit.
From recent quotes from Brett Brown it seems like Noel doesn’t work very hard in practice.  Sounds like an attitude problem to me as well.  A guy with his lack of skills better be a hard worker if he wants playing time and a huge contract.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: ImShakHeIsShaq on November 25, 2017, 01:51:51 PM
Quote
The Sixers were closing out the Portland Trail Blazers with ease on Wednesday night, and with a 22-point lead late in the fourth quarter it seemed like everybody was getting a chance to play. Everybody except Jahlil Okafor. The fans took notice and spoke up: “We want Okafor!” Egged on by Joel Embiid, the crowd chanted over and over, roaring their plea for Okafor to take the court. The player who once led the team in scoring quietly stayed on the bench

To just hoist somebody a little tiny window of minutes isn’t something that interests me,” Brown said after the 101-81 win against Portland. “I say that out of respect to [Okafor]. I don’t think that puts him in a position that I want to put him in.”

Barring an injury to Embiid, it seems like Okafor isn't going to play at all for the 76ers this season. Not a big fan of their way of handling the situation. Why not let the player leave instead of keeping him hostage on the bench??
Dallas is doing the same thing with Noel. I wonder if its an attitude problem with both of them. That two separate franchises are doing the same thing to two players that were on the same team whose management fostered a losing environment on purpose seems likes it no coincidental.

I mean, Noel CAN'T be happy about that. Guy gambled on himself hoping to have a good season to get a good contract this summer.

Not playing much does not help him one bit.
From recent quotes from Brett Brown it seems like Noel doesn’t work very hard in practice.  Sounds like an attitude problem to me as well.  A guy with his lack of skills better be a hard worker if he wants playing time and a huge contract.


Could be the reason. My theory is that both guys want out and these teams are both p---ed and saying through action "we aren't letting you earn a fat check from another team on my time!" They would play anybody over letting these kids dictate their own careers because of the assets they expended. If hard work was a requirement then a lot of players wouldn't get much time because a lot of them do enough to get by on their natural ability. They already said Okafor wasn't DNP because of attitude and that he had been working hard (this season anyway) and they played him when he was a news worthy problem in the past. It's out of spite IMO.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: KGs Knee on November 25, 2017, 02:01:26 PM
It's out of spite IMO.

Spite seems to be a fair descriptor for what is going on with Noel and Okafor.  And it just seems like such a bad look for both franchises.

Philly will probably suffer for it less, since it could easily be written of as Okafor just not being worthy of playing time, but Dallas has no excuse for not playing a guy they offered (reportedly) $17m per season this summer.

If I was a player agent I would be steering my clients as far away from Dallas as possible.
Title: Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
Post by: celticsclay on November 25, 2017, 02:08:31 PM
Can't they just let him go at this point? He is going to be a free agent. Even if embiid gets hurt they prefer Holmes and Johnson. We are a quarter of the way through the season and is only owed like 4 million? Just let everyone move on. BC is such a clown