CelticsStrong

Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Tr1boy on October 20, 2017, 12:58:45 PM

Title: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: Tr1boy on October 20, 2017, 12:58:45 PM
Not Brown or Smart....

While these guys are very decent/promising talent...they are not less than 5 min trustworthy closers

You either have it since college ball or its rare one develops into a closer at the NBA level.

Tatum is a closer.... So give him the ball. Let him go to work. Give the ball to Kyrie and let him go to work.  Work the offense late in games through these two...
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: footey on October 20, 2017, 01:02:45 PM
How about work the ball to the open man?
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: CelticsElite on October 20, 2017, 01:03:13 PM
How many "transcendent bigs" have made the nba finals recently?

Oh right. None.because the new Nba favors having wings and guards on the floor



Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: keevsnick on October 20, 2017, 01:08:42 PM
We have zero evidence either way to suggest that Tatum is a closer, or that he's anywhere near that level of ready.
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: Tr1boy on October 20, 2017, 01:22:08 PM
We have zero evidence either way to suggest that Tatum is a closer, or that he's anywhere near that level of ready.

Did you watch the ACC tourney last season?

He was the man

During SL...the game winner...who hit that shot?

When was the last time Brown hit a shot like this /sl/pre season/regular games?
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on October 20, 2017, 01:33:43 PM
He's not a bad option, but too young to be the go-to on a nightly basis.  Kyrie was pitiful last game.  There's no excuse for Smart going one-on-one from the perimeter against a set defense.  Ainge splurged on Kyrie to be that guy.  Better figure it out quick.
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: nickagneta on October 20, 2017, 01:37:32 PM
Celtics need to learn their offense and naturally find out who is the closer for this team. Forcing a 19 year old rookie into that role before he is even acclimated to the league is a huge mistake.
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: jambr380 on October 20, 2017, 01:51:47 PM
I have no issue with Tatum getting the 'last shot', but to assume he is a go-to guy throughout the 4th quarter at this point in his career might be a little much.

Also, I don't know why you are grouping Smart and Brown together. While Smart has a knack for hitting a late three and is consistent from the ft line, Brown has the ability to get to the basket at will and can also hit that same corner 3 at a better efficiency than Smart. Frankly, I am looking to at Brown over Irving at this point - at least until Irving can get comfortable in Stevens' offense.
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: chilidawg on October 20, 2017, 02:10:48 PM
How about work the ball to the open man?

Thank you.
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: Tr1boy on October 20, 2017, 02:31:20 PM
How about work the ball to the open man?

Thank you.

Jaylen Brown says hi...- game 1...two open 3 misses
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: Tr1boy on October 20, 2017, 02:36:42 PM
I like brown and smart...but they have limitations (hopefully can make open shots in crucial situations eventually)

If you put pressure on them to score late and they cant ..

Teams just start laying off of them and concentrate on Kyrie

Kyrie needs spacing (imo through Tatums help) or else we are going to see more 7-20 nights..
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: Celtics4ever on October 20, 2017, 03:47:38 PM
Quote
We have zero evidence either way to suggest that Tatum is a closer, or that he's anywhere near that level of ready.

I think you have no watched enough of his games.    He is a young pro and has a long ways to go.   But both He and Rozier have the clutch gene.
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: Tr1boy on October 20, 2017, 04:14:13 PM
Quote
We have zero evidence either way to suggest that Tatum is a closer, or that he's anywhere near that level of ready.

I think you have no watched enough of his games.    He is a young pro and has a long ways to go.   But both He and Rozier have the clutch gene.

Exactly

I think Tatum has an edge but Rozy def has hit some key shots in college/nba
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: keevsnick on October 20, 2017, 04:23:25 PM
Quote
We have zero evidence either way to suggest that Tatum is a closer, or that he's anywhere near that level of ready.

I think you have no watched enough of his games.    He is a young pro and has a long ways to go.   But both He and Rozier have the clutch gene.

I've watched literally every minute of Tatum's playing time through summer league, preseason and now his first two games. He's a nineteen year old rookie, like ever other rookie he needs to prove he belongs. He's gonna have ups and downs, and he may very well be clutch. He can certainly create a shot, but anointing him the go to guy two games into his NBA career is certifiably insane. We just haven't seen him do that yet. He is gonna be really good, but lets slow down just a little here.
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: keevsnick on October 20, 2017, 04:46:43 PM
We have zero evidence either way to suggest that Tatum is a closer, or that he's anywhere near that level of ready.

Did you watch the ACC tourney last season?

He was the man

During SL...the game winner...who hit that shot?

When was the last time Brown hit a shot like this /sl/pre season/regular games?

The ACC aourney and summer league are nowhere near the competiton level of the NBA. There's a difference between having that clutch mentality, which i think he probably has, and being able to shoulder that burden as a nineteen year old. If you are expecting him to close games for us on a regular basis this year you are gonna be disappointed. Three years from now he'll probably be draining paul pierce esque fade aways at the buzzer. For now thats KI's job.
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: keevsnick on October 20, 2017, 04:48:05 PM
And for the record I don't expect that of Jaylen Brown either. Neither are ready for that responsibility yet, or quite frankly good enough to be relied upon.
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: chilidawg on October 20, 2017, 05:04:24 PM
How about work the ball to the open man?

Thank you.

Jaylen Brown says hi...- game 1...two open 3 misses

Yeah, that proves your point right there.  No way that could ever have a different outcome.
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: Tr1boy on October 20, 2017, 06:09:45 PM
We have zero evidence either way to suggest that Tatum is a closer, or that he's anywhere near that level of ready.

Did you watch the ACC tourney last season?

He was the man

During SL...the game winner...who hit that shot?

When was the last time Brown hit a shot like this /sl/pre season/regular games?

The ACC aourney and summer league are nowhere near the competiton level of the NBA. There's a difference between having that clutch mentality, which i think he probably has, and being able to shoulder that burden as a nineteen year old. If you are expecting him to close games for us on a regular basis this year you are gonna be disappointed. Three years from now he'll probably be draining paul pierce esque fade aways at the buzzer. For now thats KI's job.

You are not understanding with Hayward out and nobody else but KI to take crucial shots...opposing teams will be zeroed in on him...for example vs Bucks

Celts passed the ball around to everyone except to Tatum it felt like. Smart and Brown either seemed hesitant to take it to rhe basketbor make a tough jump shot. Kept passing it to KI.  With middle lane clogged KI had nowhere to go

Now if there is at least one other player that teams 'fear' ...it will open up the lane more for KI

This is why Im saying Tatum while young is the best option
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: BitterJim on October 20, 2017, 06:15:31 PM
We have zero evidence either way to suggest that Tatum is a closer, or that he's anywhere near that level of ready.

Did you watch the ACC tourney last season?

He was the man

During SL...the game winner...who hit that shot?

When was the last time Brown hit a shot like this /sl/pre season/regular games?

Clearly we should be going to Rozier instead. After all, he hit not one, but TWO game winning 3s in summer league games

And maybe bring back back RJ Hunter to close games? That game winner in college proves that he'd be great at closing games in the NBA (if he just got the chance!)
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: keevsnick on October 20, 2017, 06:39:51 PM
We have zero evidence either way to suggest that Tatum is a closer, or that he's anywhere near that level of ready.

Did you watch the ACC tourney last season?

He was the man

During SL...the game winner...who hit that shot?

When was the last time Brown hit a shot like this /sl/pre season/regular games?

The ACC aourney and summer league are nowhere near the competiton level of the NBA. There's a difference between having that clutch mentality, which i think he probably has, and being able to shoulder that burden as a nineteen year old. If you are expecting him to close games for us on a regular basis this year you are gonna be disappointed. Three years from now he'll probably be draining paul pierce esque fade aways at the buzzer. For now thats KI's job.

You are not understanding with Hayward out and nobody else but KI to take crucial shots...opposing teams will be zeroed in on him...for example vs Bucks

Celts passed the ball around to everyone except to Tatum it felt like. Smart and Brown either seemed hesitant to take it to rhe basketbor make a tough jump shot. Kept passing it to KI.  With middle lane clogged KI had nowhere to go

Now if there is at least one other player that teams 'fear' ...it will open up the lane more for KI

This is why Im saying Tatum while young is the best option

I get that, I just think in the absence of Hayward we are gonna have to do it by committe. If Tatum is open, he gets the shot. If it's Brown, then Brown does. Or Rozier. Or Smart. Asking Tatum to be that guy right now is just too much. I mean when was the last time a rookie on a wining team was the closing guy? Even Lebron, one of the top 5 best NBA players of all time, took some time to learn how to close.
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: GreenWarrior on October 20, 2017, 07:02:03 PM
i'm on board with this theory. 2 man game with him and kyrie.

but I will say I am one of those that was/is behind the kyrie deal, I will be the first to say kyrie also just flat-out needs to be better. this is what he wanted - he needs to be the man... begins and ends with him.
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: Tr1boy on October 20, 2017, 07:03:10 PM
We have zero evidence either way to suggest that Tatum is a closer, or that he's anywhere near that level of ready.

Did you watch the ACC tourney last season?

He was the man

During SL...the game winner...who hit that shot?

When was the last time Brown hit a shot like this /sl/pre season/regular games?

The ACC aourney and summer league are nowhere near the competiton level of the NBA. There's a difference between having that clutch mentality, which i think he probably has, and being able to shoulder that burden as a nineteen year old. If you are expecting him to close games for us on a regular basis this year you are gonna be disappointed. Three years from now he'll probably be draining paul pierce esque fade aways at the buzzer. For now thats KI's job.

You are not understanding with Hayward out and nobody else but KI to take crucial shots...opposing teams will be zeroed in on him...for example vs Bucks

Celts passed the ball around to everyone except to Tatum it felt like. Smart and Brown either seemed hesitant to take it to rhe basketbor make a tough jump shot. Kept passing it to KI.  With middle lane clogged KI had nowhere to go

Now if there is at least one other player that teams 'fear' ...it will open up the lane more for KI

This is why Im saying Tatum while young is the best option

I get that, I just think in the absence of Hayward we are gonna have to do it by committe. If Tatum is open, he gets the shot. If it's Brown, then Brown does. Or Rozier. Or Smart. Asking Tatum to be that guy right now is just too much. I mean when was the last time a rookie on a wining team was the closing guy? Even Lebron, one of the top 5 best NBA players of all time, took some time to learn how to close.

Lebron aint no closer...he plays bully ball

jk ...but he can be stopped , especially if you force him to shoot the ball

TAtum has potential to be a dangerous closer  bc like Pierce he can get his shot off anywhere from the court

It is true he is young.... but he is already starting right.   I hope his will accelerate his development. But team needs to start winning
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: keevsnick on October 20, 2017, 07:09:23 PM

Well on this much we agree, Tatum has the potential. Hopefully it comes sooner than later.

Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on October 20, 2017, 09:28:31 PM
OP may actually be right.  Yet another game without a 4th quarter closer on the team.  Thankfully Rozier and Jaylen have provided solid guard play.
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: CelticsJG on October 20, 2017, 10:58:00 PM
Wish Tatum took more shots. Playing too passive.
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: Tr1boy on October 20, 2017, 11:53:01 PM
OP may actually be right.  Yet another game without a 4th quarter closer on the team.  Thankfully Rozier and Jaylen have provided solid guard play.

yes Jaylen was so clutch in the 4th

he has to work on his accuracy...

He needs to go back to how he was playing last season.  Just perfect being a spot up shooter or straight line (opportunity).   Once he gets this pact, then venture off and try something else slowly

right now he playing out of control on the offensive end.  If you can't make the floater then don't try.  if you can't stop and pop. keep working at it at the gym.    go back to the basics
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: Snakehead on October 21, 2017, 12:57:36 AM
You guys are over the top sometimes.  It's been 3 games and he's a rookie.
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: Ogaju on October 21, 2017, 03:38:00 AM
No, teams do not need to go to a 19 yr old rookie more late in games. Rookies never get handed that role. If they are good enough or confident enough they seize that role, rather than wait for it to be handed to them.  See Kobe Bryant as an example of a rookie that took on the leadership mantle
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: Somebody on October 21, 2017, 04:18:03 AM
No, teams do not need to go to a 19 yr old rookie more late in games. Rookies never get handed that role. If they are good enough or confident enough they seize that role, rather than wait for it to be handed to them.  See Kobe Bryant as an example of a rookie that took on the leadership mantle
Kobe Bryant averaged 7 points in his rookie season. Dude was clearly not a leader when he was a rookie. MJ is a much better example and imo the best is Wilt. Also up till now Tatum is in line with Bird's rookie season, so anything is possible (ofc the bit worse but stats are similar).
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: Somebody on October 21, 2017, 04:41:56 AM
OP may actually be right.  Yet another game without a 4th quarter closer on the team.  Thankfully Rozier and Jaylen have provided solid guard play.

yes Jaylen was so clutch in the 4th

he has to work on his accuracy...

He needs to go back to how he was playing last season.  Just perfect being a spot up shooter or straight line (opportunity).   Once he gets this pact, then venture off and try something else slowly

right now he playing out of control on the offensive end.  If you can't make the floater then don't try.  if you can't stop and pop. keep working at it at the gym.    go back to the basics
Jaylen scored 25 and 18 in his first 2 games against LeBron and Giannis, I'd probably take him over Tatum in scoring rn.
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: gouki88 on October 21, 2017, 07:01:43 AM
No, teams do not need to go to a 19 yr old rookie more late in games. Rookies never get handed that role. If they are good enough or confident enough they seize that role, rather than wait for it to be handed to them.  See Kobe Bryant as an example of a rookie that took on the leadership mantle
Kobe Bryant averaged 7 points in his rookie season. Dude was clearly not a leader when he was a rookie. MJ is a much better example and imo the best is Wilt. Also up till now Tatum is in line with Bird's rookie season, so anything is possible (ofc the bit worse but stats are similar).
Yeah, Kobe coming straight out of high-school is hardly a good example of a rookie immediately stepping into a leadership role in the big league.
Tim Duncan immediately came in and took over the Spurs, averaging nearly 40mpg.

And no, Jayson is not really close to Bird's 21/10/4.5 rookie season at all
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: Celtics4ever on October 21, 2017, 07:09:26 AM
Quote
And no, Jayson is not really close to Bird's 21/10/4.5 rookie season at all

True, but we have a lot of empty barrels here that make a lot of noise about nonsense like that.
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: lbgreen33 on October 21, 2017, 07:22:15 AM
We don't know who to go to late in games yet. It is way to early for this team. It is going to take time for them to figure it out. I like what I have seen from Tatum so far, he can get his shot and has had some nice drives to the basket. Also, as far as Kyrie, give it time! I think they were planning on running a lot of plays through GH at end of games, even Brad has to figure it out now.
They will get there, this team had to learn each others game before GH went down, now they have to learn about each other even more. It has only been 3 games, what is the hurry?  I don't know if this season is even about winning the east, I think this would be a great season if they can develop the young guys and figure themselves out as a team.
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: Tr1boy on October 21, 2017, 09:38:39 AM
How many players around Tatum size can execute this jumper at 10 sec? Smooth

This is KDesque

https://youtu.be/6l3hXbI1J-Y
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: Somebody on October 21, 2017, 10:02:34 AM
No, teams do not need to go to a 19 yr old rookie more late in games. Rookies never get handed that role. If they are good enough or confident enough they seize that role, rather than wait for it to be handed to them.  See Kobe Bryant as an example of a rookie that took on the leadership mantle
Kobe Bryant averaged 7 points in his rookie season. Dude was clearly not a leader when he was a rookie. MJ is a much better example and imo the best is Wilt. Also up till now Tatum is in line with Bird's rookie season, so anything is possible (ofc the bit worse but stats are similar).
Yeah, Kobe coming straight out of high-school is hardly a good example of a rookie immediately stepping into a leadership role in the big league.
Tim Duncan immediately came in and took over the Spurs, averaging nearly 40mpg.

And no, Jayson is not really close to Bird's 21/10/4.5 rookie season at all
Oh yeah that debut comparison got into my head lol.
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: droopdog7 on October 21, 2017, 10:18:28 AM
No, teams do not need to go to a 19 yr old rookie more late in games. Rookies never get handed that role. If they are good enough or confident enough they seize that role, rather than wait for it to be handed to them.  See Kobe Bryant as an example of a rookie that took on the leadership mantle
Kobe Bryant averaged 7 points in his rookie season. Dude was clearly not a leader when he was a rookie. MJ is a much better example and imo the best is Wilt. Also up till now Tatum is in line with Bird's rookie season, so anything is possible (ofc the bit worse but stats are similar).
Yeah, Kobe coming straight out of high-school is hardly a good example of a rookie immediately stepping into a leadership role in the big league.
Tim Duncan immediately came in and took over the Spurs, averaging nearly 40mpg.

And no, Jayson is not really close to Bird's 21/10/4.5 rookie season at all
Oh yeah that debut comparison got into my head lol.
Kobe certainly was not great as a rookie.  An 18 year old one at that.  But he had more balls than the rest of that playoff team.  I’m sure everyone remembers the two air balls be shot in the playoffs.  He wasn’t afraid.  He took those shots when the majority of other rookies would have run away from the moment.  By his second year (I believe) he was an all star.
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: jambr380 on October 21, 2017, 10:28:56 AM
Tatum is way too hesitant right now. Of course I know why - he is a 19 year old rookie, three games into his career on an upper-conference playoff team, but he needs to be told to take the jumper when it's open. There are too many other sub-par shooters who have no problem letting it fly.

So far, so good on Tatum. I think we dodged a major bullet with Fultz. Not that Fultz won't be a player in this league, but gaining that extra pick really helps take the sting out losing the BKN to pick to CLE - especially knowing we likely got the better player.
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: Celtics4ever on October 21, 2017, 11:00:49 AM
Quote
I think we dodged a major bullet with Fultz.

Agree.   But I think Fultz is injured right now too.   I am not a supporter of him either.  I think he is a dud.  Both Simmons and Fultz are great at producing empty stats and not winning.  Embid is a talent but he also is a knucklehead.  After seeing this game I don't think Philly is as dangerous as some thought.
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on October 21, 2017, 12:02:59 PM
Quote
I think we dodged a major bullet with Fultz.

Agree.   But I think Fultz is injured right now too.   I am not a supporter of him either.  I think he is a dud.  Both Simmons and Fultz are great at producing empty stats and not winning.  Embid is a talent but he also is a knucklehead.  After seeing this game I don't think Philly is as dangerous as some thought.

I don't like the way Fultz runs. It's too herky-jerky. I worry it puts a lot of stress on his joints. It's not as bad as Derrick Rose, but I still wonder if he will be injury prone. At worse, I think he is Tyreke Evans, which is a still a very talented offensive threat. He will likely be better long-term though.

Embiid is a knucklehead. I'm upset he didn't get t'd up last night on Baynes' tip-in at the end of the 3rd. It looks like he intentionally swung his elbow at Baynes after the play was over. I hope the NBA reviews that. He probably had his worst game his 4 year, 33 game career against us last night. We had him out of sync. I expect him to go at us next time we face him.

Simmons looks stiff, which may affect his finishing long-term. His talent is there though. He went for 11-5-11 against us last night. He played decent defense on Horford all night. I like him, but I don't think he is a transcendent talent. He's a future all-star though.

Saric looked awful last night. He could probably be a rotation guy on a good team, but I'm not buying that his ceiling is high. Is McConnel an NBA player? What about Anderson? Luwawu had a few plays last night, but how good can he be? I'm not a fan of Covington's game. He is limited and has definitely learned bad habits through the tanking years on offense.

From a business perspective, the Sixers organization has to be thrilled. At the beginning of the telecast, they were saying that 3 years ago, they only sold 3,000 season tickets. This year, there is a waiting list. The energy in their building was palpable last night. There is an excitement in the organization. They sold hope, and Philly fans are buying it. They are in a much better situation than they were.
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: playdream on October 21, 2017, 12:16:54 PM
Quote
I think we dodged a major bullet with Fultz.

Agree.   But I think Fultz is injured right now too.   I am not a supporter of him either.  I think he is a dud.  Both Simmons and Fultz are great at producing empty stats and not winning.  Embid is a talent but he also is a knucklehead.  After seeing this game I don't think Philly is as dangerous as some thought.

I don't like the way Fultz runs. It's too herky-jerky. I worry it puts a lot of stress on his joints. It's not as bad as Derrick Rose, but I still wonder if he will be injury prone. At worse, I think he is Tyreke Evans, which is a still a very talented offensive threat. He will likely be better long-term though.

Embiid is a knucklehead. I'm upset he didn't get t'd up last night on Baynes' tip-in at the end of the 3rd. It looks like he intentionally swung his elbow at Baynes after the play was over. I hope the NBA reviews that. He probably had his worst game his 4 year, 33 game career against us last night. We had him out of sync. I expect him to go at us next time we face him.

Simmons looks stiff, which may affect his finishing long-term. His talent is there though. He went for 11-5-11 against us last night. He played decent defense on Horford all night. I like him, but I don't think he is a transcendent talent. He's a future all-star though.

Saric looked awful last night. He could probably be a rotation guy on a good team, but I'm not buying that his ceiling is high. Is McConnel an NBA player? What about Anderson? Luwawu had a few plays last night, but how good can he be? I'm not a fan of Covington's game. He is limited and has definitely learned bad habits through the tanking years on offense.

From a business perspective, the Sixers organization has to be thrilled. At the beginning of the telecast, they were saying that 3 years ago, they only sold 3,000 season tickets. This year, there is a waiting list. The energy in their building was palpable last night. There is an excitement in the organization. They sold hope, and Philly fans are buying it. They are in a much better situation than they were.
They are a disaster waiting to happen
Embiid has Boogie mentality and will most likely went down in the season, Their PG Simmons can't shoot and can't finish, their SG(which should really be the PG) Fultz can't shoot and defend, Saric is a good player and that's it, they are actually carried by Reddick and Bylass now, those plus their Coach isn't good enough to utilize their talent like Stevens(only few can though)

They will be having a very ugly season and the high expectations will turn back to hunt them
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: playdream on October 21, 2017, 12:19:34 PM
No, teams do not need to go to a 19 yr old rookie more late in games. Rookies never get handed that role. If they are good enough or confident enough they seize that role, rather than wait for it to be handed to them.  See Kobe Bryant as an example of a rookie that took on the leadership mantle
Kobe Bryant averaged 7 points in his rookie season. Dude was clearly not a leader when he was a rookie. MJ is a much better example and imo the best is Wilt. Also up till now Tatum is in line with Bird's rookie season, so anything is possible (ofc the bit worse but stats are similar).
Yeah, Kobe coming straight out of high-school is hardly a good example of a rookie immediately stepping into a leadership role in the big league.
Tim Duncan immediately came in and took over the Spurs, averaging nearly 40mpg.

And no, Jayson is not really close to Bird's 21/10/4.5 rookie season at all
That's not true, Tatum being the focal point and has plays run for him is very capable of putting up that number, or even better
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: playdream on October 21, 2017, 12:28:49 PM
How about work the ball to the open man?
The point is to work the plays to get those guys(Tatum, KI, Smart and TRo) open because they are cluth
He is saying MORE not ALL, and he definetly not talking only about ISOs

Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: Ogaju on October 21, 2017, 12:54:03 PM
No, teams do not need to go to a 19 yr old rookie more late in games. Rookies never get handed that role. If they are good enough or confident enough they seize that role, rather than wait for it to be handed to them.  See Kobe Bryant as an example of a rookie that took on the leadership mantle
Kobe Bryant averaged 7 points in his rookie season. Dude was clearly not a leader when he was a rookie. MJ is a much better example and imo the best is Wilt. Also up till now Tatum is in line with Bird's rookie season, so anything is possible (ofc the bit worse but stats are similar).

Not really saying Kobe was great in his rookie season, but saying that he showed the fearlessness to keep shooting even when he was not putting up numbers. You could see that he had confidence in spades and the resilience to be the man.
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: ImShakHeIsShaq on October 21, 2017, 01:10:01 PM
I would like them to get it to him more no matter the situation. I need Al to take more shots consistently too.


Seems Brown has the Kobe mentality you are talking about, we have one, let Tatum grow into being more assertive. Let the young guy have a chance to find himself.
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: Tr1boy on October 28, 2017, 10:52:43 PM
More and more the ball is going into Tatums hand in crucial situations

Best player of the 2017 draft. Book it. Danny is a thief  ;D
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: crimson_stallion on October 29, 2017, 01:02:47 AM
I have to agree.

Thing is, Kyrie and Tatum are the only pure scorers on this team.  Both of those guys are built to score - they have a versatile array of moves and counter-moves that allow them to get their shots off in almost any scenario, against almost any defender.

This is in contrast to guys like Brown and Smart who CAN score, but only really have one or two moves.  Shut down Brown's driving lane and you pretty much take him out of the game.  Guard Smart at the three point line and you pretty much shut him down too. 

Ironically it's Rozier who is probably the third best tough shot creator / maker on this team right now and he's probably the next most clutch guy after Kyrie and Tatum.

I am ok with Smart taking the game winning shot if he has a wide open look, because he tends to make more shots then he misses in the clutch - but I'm not ok with running plays for him, because if you give him anything more complex then a simple catch-and-shoot play he's likely to overdo it and screw it up. 

I'd rather not get Brown the ball in those scenarios because he seems to still be very inconsistent from outside, and seems to struggle to hit outside shots unless he's wide open.  But if there is nobody else, and he's wide open, then by all means he should take the shot.

But actual plays should be run for Kyrie first, Tatum second.  Third probably Rozier - at least until Morris and Hayward are back.
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: Somebody on October 29, 2017, 01:29:40 AM
I have to agree.

Thing is, Kyrie and Tatum are the only pure scorers on this team.  Both of those guys are built to score - they have a versatile array of moves and counter-moves that allow them to get their shots off in almost any scenario, against almost any defender.

This is in contrast to guys like Brown and Smart who CAN score, but only really have one or two moves.  Shut down Brown's driving lane and you pretty much take him out of the game.  Guard Smart at the three point line and you pretty much shut him down too. 

Ironically it's Rozier who is probably the third best tough shot creator / maker on this team right now and he's probably the next most clutch guy after Kyrie and Tatum.

I am ok with Smart taking the game winning shot if he has a wide open look, because he tends to make more shots then he misses in the clutch - but I'm not ok with running plays for him, because if you give him anything more complex then a simple catch-and-shoot play he's likely to overdo it and screw it up. 

I'd rather not get Brown the ball in those scenarios because he seems to still be very inconsistent from outside, and seems to struggle to hit outside shots unless he's wide open.  But if there is nobody else, and he's wide open, then by all means he should take the shot.

But actual plays should be run for Kyrie first, Tatum second.  Third probably Rozier - at least until Morris and Hayward are back.
I really disagree with Brown, his post game is really good and I'd be okay with him taking an MJ fadeaway in crunch time.
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: droopdog7 on October 29, 2017, 02:13:13 AM
I have to agree.

Thing is, Kyrie and Tatum are the only pure scorers on this team.  Both of those guys are built to score - they have a versatile array of moves and counter-moves that allow them to get their shots off in almost any scenario, against almost any defender.

This is in contrast to guys like Brown and Smart who CAN score, but only really have one or two moves.  Shut down Brown's driving lane and you pretty much take him out of the game.  Guard Smart at the three point line and you pretty much shut him down too. 

Ironically it's Rozier who is probably the third best tough shot creator / maker on this team right now and he's probably the next most clutch guy after Kyrie and Tatum.

I am ok with Smart taking the game winning shot if he has a wide open look, because he tends to make more shots then he misses in the clutch - but I'm not ok with running plays for him, because if you give him anything more complex then a simple catch-and-shoot play he's likely to overdo it and screw it up. 

I'd rather not get Brown the ball in those scenarios because he seems to still be very inconsistent from outside, and seems to struggle to hit outside shots unless he's wide open.  But if there is nobody else, and he's wide open, then by all means he should take the shot.

But actual plays should be run for Kyrie first, Tatum second.  Third probably Rozier - at least until Morris and Hayward are back.
I really disagree with Brown, his post game is really good and I'd be okay with him taking an MJ fadeaway in crunch time.
I pretty much completely agree with brown. He is not there as a scorer.  Clog the lane and he’s done unless the shot is falling.  And I’m not going to Jaylen in the post in crunch time because you can’t trust he’s going to make the right decision.  As for his fall away, sure he can get that shot but he hasn’t shown the ability to make it consistently.
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: jdz101 on October 29, 2017, 03:11:11 AM
I have to agree.

Thing is, Kyrie and Tatum are the only pure scorers on this team.  Both of those guys are built to score - they have a versatile array of moves and counter-moves that allow them to get their shots off in almost any scenario, against almost any defender.

This is in contrast to guys like Brown and Smart who CAN score, but only really have one or two moves.  Shut down Brown's driving lane and you pretty much take him out of the game.  Guard Smart at the three point line and you pretty much shut him down too. 

Ironically it's Rozier who is probably the third best tough shot creator / maker on this team right now and he's probably the next most clutch guy after Kyrie and Tatum.

Does Al Horford just not exist in this situation? Because I'd be preferring horford in a 2 man game late or in a post up than Terry Rozier. Every day of the week and twice on sunday.

Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: Somebody on October 29, 2017, 04:23:37 AM
I have to agree.

Thing is, Kyrie and Tatum are the only pure scorers on this team.  Both of those guys are built to score - they have a versatile array of moves and counter-moves that allow them to get their shots off in almost any scenario, against almost any defender.

This is in contrast to guys like Brown and Smart who CAN score, but only really have one or two moves.  Shut down Brown's driving lane and you pretty much take him out of the game.  Guard Smart at the three point line and you pretty much shut him down too. 

Ironically it's Rozier who is probably the third best tough shot creator / maker on this team right now and he's probably the next most clutch guy after Kyrie and Tatum.

I am ok with Smart taking the game winning shot if he has a wide open look, because he tends to make more shots then he misses in the clutch - but I'm not ok with running plays for him, because if you give him anything more complex then a simple catch-and-shoot play he's likely to overdo it and screw it up. 

I'd rather not get Brown the ball in those scenarios because he seems to still be very inconsistent from outside, and seems to struggle to hit outside shots unless he's wide open.  But if there is nobody else, and he's wide open, then by all means he should take the shot.

But actual plays should be run for Kyrie first, Tatum second.  Third probably Rozier - at least until Morris and Hayward are back.
I really disagree with Brown, his post game is really good and I'd be okay with him taking an MJ fadeaway in crunch time.
I pretty much completely agree with brown. He is not there as a scorer.  Clog the lane and he’s done unless the shot is falling.  And I’m not going to Jaylen in the post in crunch time because you can’t trust he’s going to make the right decision.  As for his fall away, sure he can get that shot but he hasn’t shown the ability to make it consistently.
Seems pretty consistent to me...it's pretty wet imo. But oh well he is still pretty raw, hope continues to make leaps during the season and become a much needed scoring threat.
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: Green-18 on October 29, 2017, 08:18:02 AM
I have to agree.

Thing is, Kyrie and Tatum are the only pure scorers on this team.  Both of those guys are built to score - they have a versatile array of moves and counter-moves that allow them to get their shots off in almost any scenario, against almost any defender.

This is in contrast to guys like Brown and Smart who CAN score, but only really have one or two moves.  Shut down Brown's driving lane and you pretty much take him out of the game.  Guard Smart at the three point line and you pretty much shut him down too. 

Ironically it's Rozier who is probably the third best tough shot creator / maker on this team right now and he's probably the next most clutch guy after Kyrie and Tatum.

Does Al Horford just not exist in this situation? Because I'd be preferring horford in a 2 man game late or in a post up than Terry Rozier. Every day of the week and twice on sunday.

Agree 100% in regards to Al.  He can be trusted to make the right decision every time and his clutch shooting stats have been great since joining the Celtics. 
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: Celtics4ever on October 29, 2017, 08:45:55 AM
Quote
I really disagree with Brown, his post game is really good and I'd be okay with him taking an MJ fadeaway in crunch time.

For all his supposed intellect, Brown seems to like playing against his strengths at times.   He is deadly slashing and in transition but the games he does not do as well he tends to stick with the jumpshot.   We need him to do a mix of the two.
Title: Re: Celtics need to go to Tatum more late in games
Post by: Tr1boy on October 29, 2017, 10:41:13 AM
I have to agree.

Thing is, Kyrie and Tatum are the only pure scorers on this team.  Both of those guys are built to score - they have a versatile array of moves and counter-moves that allow them to get their shots off in almost any scenario, against almost any defender.

This is in contrast to guys like Brown and Smart who CAN score, but only really have one or two moves.  Shut down Brown's driving lane and you pretty much take him out of the game.  Guard Smart at the three point line and you pretty much shut him down too. 

Ironically it's Rozier who is probably the third best tough shot creator / maker on this team right now and he's probably the next most clutch guy after Kyrie and Tatum.

I am ok with Smart taking the game winning shot if he has a wide open look, because he tends to make more shots then he misses in the clutch - but I'm not ok with running plays for him, because if you give him anything more complex then a simple catch-and-shoot play he's likely to overdo it and screw it up. 

I'd rather not get Brown the ball in those scenarios because he seems to still be very inconsistent from outside, and seems to struggle to hit outside shots unless he's wide open.  But if there is nobody else, and he's wide open, then by all means he should take the shot.

But actual plays should be run for Kyrie first, Tatum second.  Third probably Rozier - at least until Morris and Hayward are back.

Yes

But Brown and Smart are consistent versatile defenders

Iguadala, arizas of the world

May never be late go to scorers but thats ok as long as each can make the open shot