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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: footey on October 19, 2017, 09:34:58 AM

Title: Jeff Goodman: Hayward Could return this Season, Should Eventually be 100%
Post by: footey on October 19, 2017, 09:34:58 AM
Per Goodman on ESPN:

"Interesting comments to me from Ex-NBA player/Celtics forward Shavlik Randolph, who had similar injury to Gordon Hayward. "It's about a 4-6 month recovery. The ligaments take 6-8 weeks and the tibia was about three months to heal in all the places it broke. Ironically, I had the same injury and as bad as it looks it does heal back to 100 percent and does so surprisingly fast. I think there's a chance he could be back this season if he really pushed it. The team will be cautious to bring him back too fast, but I think he could by the end of the season. Maybe not back to full 100 percent by then, but I wouldn't be shocked if he can and does play.""

We could all use some good news.  Stay positive!!
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman: Hayward Could return this Season, Should Eventually be 100%
Post by: Roy H. on October 19, 2017, 09:43:21 AM
If he's not 100%, I don't want him pushing it.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman: Hayward Could return this Season, Should Eventually be 100%
Post by: jambr380 on October 19, 2017, 09:44:20 AM
I'm all for it, but what about this from Woj/his agent:

Quote
After surgery tonight, Boston's Gordon Hayward is unlikely to return this season, agent Mark Bartelstein told ESPN.

Quote
Bartelstein tells ESPN on Hayward: "We expect him to make a full recovery and return to his All-Star form."

While the 2nd tweet is promising, the first is straight from the horse's mouth. I guess nobody will have any idea for at least a few weeks. Everybody heals differently - hopefully Hayward responds well to surgery/rehab and we get him back for a late season boost. Regardless, it's most important he gets to 100%.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman: Hayward Could return this Season, Should Eventually be 100%
Post by: Fafnir on October 19, 2017, 09:44:31 AM
If he's not 100%, I don't want him pushing it.
Yup I like the approach his agent took, he's out the season should be back 100%. Don't turn things into a sideshow or pressure him to come back early.

When he's right then you can see what month it is. I'm sure Hayward's goal is to be back this season just to motivate himself don't need to pressure that anymore.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman: Hayward Could return this Season, Should Eventually be 100%
Post by: keevsnick on October 19, 2017, 09:45:47 AM
Per Goodman on ESPN:

"Interesting comments to me from Ex-NBA player/Celtics forward Shavlik Randolph, who had similar injury to Gordon Hayward. "It's about a 4-6 month recovery. The ligaments take 6-8 weeks and the tibia was about three months to heal in all the places it broke. Ironically, I had the same injury and as bad as it looks it does heal back to 100 percent and does so surprisingly fast. I think there's a chance he could be back this season if he really pushed it. The team will be cautious to bring him back too fast, but I think he could by the end of the season. Maybe not back to full 100 percent by then, but I wouldn't be shocked if he can and does play.""

We could all use some good news.  Stay positive!!

Ya but on the other hand his agent says he's likely done for the season. To be honest even if he is able to come back by mid march as some reports have suggested is possible that's only 10-15 games left in the season. then he still needs to get his conditioning up to speed, he'd probably be on a minutes restriction, he wouldn't be integrated in the offense and most importantly he would still likely have some emotional trepidation to work through. I doubt he'd be positive at that point. So what do you do? Do you play him in the playoffs when he's not helping much? Na, better to let him come back 100% fresh next year. We aren't winning the chip this year anyway, the whole point of Acquiring Irving was extending the WINDOW(tm) into a post warriors era.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman: Hayward Could return this Season, Should Eventually be 100%
Post by: Moranis on October 19, 2017, 09:47:44 AM
Per Goodman on ESPN:

"Interesting comments to me from Ex-NBA player/Celtics forward Shavlik Randolph, who had similar injury to Gordon Hayward. "It's about a 4-6 month recovery. The ligaments take 6-8 weeks and the tibia was about three months to heal in all the places it broke. Ironically, I had the same injury and as bad as it looks it does heal back to 100 percent and does so surprisingly fast. I think there's a chance he could be back this season if he really pushed it. The team will be cautious to bring him back too fast, but I think he could by the end of the season. Maybe not back to full 100 percent by then, but I wouldn't be shocked if he can and does play.""

We could all use some good news.  Stay positive!!

Ya but on the other hand his agent says he's likely done for the season. To be honest even if he is able to come back by mid march as some reports have suggested is possible that's only 10-15 games left in the season. then he still needs to get his conditioning up to speed, he'd probably be on a minutes restriction, he wouldn't be integrated in the offense and most importantly he would still likely have some emotional trepidation to work through. I doubt he'd be positive at that point. So what do you do? Do you play him in the playoffs when he's not helping much? Na, better to let him come back 100% fresh next year. We aren't winning the chip this year anyway, the whole point of Acquiring Irving was extending the WINDOW(tm) into a post warriors era.
If he is back for 10-15 games in the regular season, you absolutely play him and try to get him back into game shape.  I would assume you would have him come off the bench with limited minutes until he gets back into reasonable shape though. 
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman: Hayward Could return this Season, Should Eventually be 100%
Post by: Boston Garden Leprechaun on October 19, 2017, 09:51:37 AM
we will still make playoffs without him. Let him heal and be 100%. Bring back with 10 regular season games left if possible so he is ready for playoffs. AGAIN IF POSSIBLE> if not stay out until next year. we need him fully healed. the positive in all this is this will make brown and tatum grow up quickly. rozier also. give smart a chance to get much better also.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman: Hayward Could return this Season, Should Eventually be 100%
Post by: PaulAllen on October 19, 2017, 09:57:18 AM
Let him heal..

I understand how we all wanted to show off this new team and see just how far they can go but in the end even if the Celtics got past Cleveland they weren't getting past GSW..

So I'm taking this is as a bridge year.. I think they will get back the the ECF but eventually lose... Side not its crazy how so many media outlets think the Celtics are done and have them as 5 and 6 seeds... haha they are a better team then last year without Hayward!! but back to my bridge point..

Brown and Tatum are really going to get extended minutes and this team could gel and potentially beat Cleveland ... Its a long year but those two are talented as we have ever seen a young group come up... so all hope is not lost .. and if they do make a push for someone like Davis the Brown and Tatum values will be skyrocketing..
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman: Hayward Could return this Season, Should Eventually be 100%
Post by: jambr380 on October 19, 2017, 10:01:06 AM
If he is back for 10-15 games in the regular season, you absolutely play him and try to get him back into game shape.  I would assume you would have him come off the bench with limited minutes until he gets back into reasonable shape though.

Yeah, I mean the alternatives off the bench are guys like Nader and Ojeleye. Hayward for 15-20 minutes a game would be incredible if he could play without any chance of re-injury. The first couple of months of rehab will be physical, then it really comes down to strengthening and trusting his ankle again.

I agree with others that we were never likely to win the championship this season, but I would love for Hayward to be integrated into the team's offensive and defensive sets before next year's training camp. It would be a big help to everybody.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman: Hayward Could return this Season, Should Eventually be 100%
Post by: Boston Garden Leprechaun on October 19, 2017, 10:01:30 AM
Let him heal..

I understand how we all wanted to show off this new team and see just how far they can go but in the end even if the Celtics got past Cleveland they weren't getting past GSW..

So I'm taking this is as a bridge year.. I think they will get back the the ECF but eventually lose... Side not its crazy how so many media outlets think the Celtics are done and have them as 5 and 6 seeds... haha they are a better team then last year without Hayward!! but back to my bridge point..

Brown and Tatum are really going to get extended minutes and this team could gel and potentially beat Cleveland ... Its a long year but those two are talented as we have ever seen a young group come up... so all hope is not lost .. and if they do make a push for someone like Davis the Brown and Tatum values will be skyrocketing..

agrred. we are still better as a TEAM this year WITHOUT GH than last year. I am not even worried about playoff seedings. just make playoffs. theis theis baby looked ok last night also. alot of guys will step up and learn fast this year. tatum could be ROTY. brown looks good so far. good things ahead. we will build chemistry over time. patience. we still have not seen morris yet either in regular season.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman: Hayward Could return this Season, Should Eventually be 100%
Post by: bdm860 on October 19, 2017, 10:04:37 AM
I'm all for it, but what about this from Woj/his agent:

Quote
After surgery tonight, Boston's Gordon Hayward is unlikely to return this season, agent Mark Bartelstein told ESPN.

Quote
Bartelstein tells ESPN on Hayward: "We expect him to make a full recovery and return to his All-Star form."

While the 2nd tweet is promising, the first is straight from the horse's mouth. I guess nobody will have any idea for at least a few weeks. Everybody heals differently - hopefully Hayward responds well to surgery/rehab and we get him back for a late season boost. Regardless, it's most important he gets to 100%.

Well I think it's clearly in the agent's best interests to keep expectations for this season as low as possible while also trying to keep Hayward's value as high as possible, so of course he'd say don't expect Hayward back this year but he's expected to come back 100%.

Hypothetically, if doctors said there's a 20% chance of Hayward returning to the court before the playoffs, and an 80% chance of him not being back by the playoffs, how would it help Hayward at all to put it out there that he might be able to return this season?  That's just going to put crazy expectations on him, even if it's unlikely to happen you know us as fans will only hear "Hayward could be back this year!"  The agent's protecting Hayward here.

But it doesn't matter, I'm a fan, I got my green goggles on.  I believe the C's can win a championship every year they're in the playoffs, or they'll win the lottery every year they're not.  I believe KG was coming back in '09, a Perk injury away in '10, a Jeff Green or Avery Bradley injury away in '12, an Isaiah injury away in '17.  Hayward could have had his leg amputated, really anything short of death, and I'm holding out hope he's making it back this year.  Even if Danny and Brad both got up and said they 100% guarantee Hayward wouldn't play another game this year, well then they're just clearly trying to fool other teams so they can't game plan against us.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman: Hayward Could return this Season, Should Eventually be 100%
Post by: Boston Garden Leprechaun on October 19, 2017, 10:08:07 AM
I'm all for it, but what about this from Woj/his agent:

Quote
After surgery tonight, Boston's Gordon Hayward is unlikely to return this season, agent Mark Bartelstein told ESPN.

Quote
Bartelstein tells ESPN on Hayward: "We expect him to make a full recovery and return to his All-Star form."

While the 2nd tweet is promising, the first is straight from the horse's mouth. I guess nobody will have any idea for at least a few weeks. Everybody heals differently - hopefully Hayward responds well to surgery/rehab and we get him back for a late season boost. Regardless, it's most important he gets to 100%.

Well I think it's clearly in the agent's best interests to keep expectations for this season as low as possible while also trying to keep Hayward's value as high as possible, so of course he'd say don't expect Hayward back this year but he's expected to come back 100%.

Hypothetically, if doctors said there's a 20% chance of Hayward returning to the court before the playoffs, and an 80% chance of him not being back by the playoffs, how would it help Hayward at all to put it out there that he might be able to return this season?  That's just going to put crazy expectations on him, even if it's unlikely to happen you know us as fans will only here "Hayward could be back this year!"  The agent's protecting Hayward here.

But it doesn't matter, I'm fan, I got my green goggles on.  I believe the C's can win a championship every year they're in the playoffs, or they'll win the lottery every year they're not.  I believe KG was coming back in '09, a Perk injury away in '10, a Jeff Green or Avery Bradley injury away in '12, an Isaiah injury away in '17.  Hayward could have had his leg amputated, really anything short of death, and I'm holding out hope he's making it back this year.  Even if Danny and Brad both got up and said they 100% guarantee Hayward wouldn't play another game this year, well then they're just clearly trying to fool other teams so they can't game plan against us.


perkims injury did not do us in in 2010. we had that series and game 7 won and blew it thanks to doc rivers coaching. it has been discussed ad nauseum.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman: Hayward Could return this Season, Should Eventually be 100%
Post by: keevsnick on October 19, 2017, 10:14:13 AM
Per Goodman on ESPN:

"Interesting comments to me from Ex-NBA player/Celtics forward Shavlik Randolph, who had similar injury to Gordon Hayward. "It's about a 4-6 month recovery. The ligaments take 6-8 weeks and the tibia was about three months to heal in all the places it broke. Ironically, I had the same injury and as bad as it looks it does heal back to 100 percent and does so surprisingly fast. I think there's a chance he could be back this season if he really pushed it. The team will be cautious to bring him back too fast, but I think he could by the end of the season. Maybe not back to full 100 percent by then, but I wouldn't be shocked if he can and does play.""

We could all use some good news.  Stay positive!!

Ya but on the other hand his agent says he's likely done for the season. To be honest even if he is able to come back by mid march as some reports have suggested is possible that's only 10-15 games left in the season. then he still needs to get his conditioning up to speed, he'd probably be on a minutes restriction, he wouldn't be integrated in the offense and most importantly he would still likely have some emotional trepidation to work through. I doubt he'd be positive at that point. So what do you do? Do you play him in the playoffs when he's not helping much? Na, better to let him come back 100% fresh next year. We aren't winning the chip this year anyway, the whole point of Acquiring Irving was extending the WINDOW(tm) into a post warriors era.
If he is back for 10-15 games in the regular season, you absolutely play him and try to get him back into game shape.  I would assume you would have him come off the bench with limited minutes until he gets back into reasonable shape though.

Ya my point is what if he's back for 10 games and then you go into the playoffs? Are you gonna play him those ten games then shut him down for the playoffs? What if he's really hesitant to explode off that ankle, or what if he's really rusty and hurting you in the playoffs? Its not impossible. If he can come back I'd say you play him for no other reason than to get a head start on him getting back into the right mind set for basketball. Gruesome injuries like this often have a psychological impact. What I don't think is reasonable is to expect all star Gordon Hayward when he comes back.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman: Hayward Could return this Season, Should Eventually be 100%
Post by: smokeablount on October 19, 2017, 11:05:15 AM
If he's not 100%, I don't want him pushing it.

Absolutely not.  All I care about is him making a full recovery.  If that looks likely, let our young wings hold down the fort and get reps and build good habits in the meantime.

When GH returns, we could be one of the 2-3 deepest teams in the NBA.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman: Hayward Could return this Season, Should Eventually be 100%
Post by: kozlodoev on October 19, 2017, 11:07:42 AM
Per Goodman on ESPN:

"Interesting comments to me from Ex-NBA player/Celtics forward Shavlik Randolph, who had similar injury to Gordon Hayward. "It's about a 4-6 month recovery. The ligaments take 6-8 weeks and the tibia was about three months to heal in all the places it broke. Ironically, I had the same injury and as bad as it looks it does heal back to 100 percent and does so surprisingly fast. I think there's a chance he could be back this season if he really pushed it. The team will be cautious to bring him back too fast, but I think he could by the end of the season. Maybe not back to full 100 percent by then, but I wouldn't be shocked if he can and does play.""

We could all use some good news.  Stay positive!!
There's no practical reason for him to "really push it" and jeopardize the remaining 6-8 years of his career.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman: Hayward Could return this Season, Should Eventually be 100%
Post by: Fafnir on October 19, 2017, 11:09:56 AM
Agreed koz. Nor should the C's want him to, we have him for another two years at least.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman: Hayward Could return this Season, Should Eventually be 100%
Post by: Donoghus on October 19, 2017, 11:13:17 AM
Agreed koz. Nor should the C's want him to, we have him for another two years at least.

Agreed.  There is zero incentive to rush him back.  Organization has to look at future, not just present. 
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman: Hayward Could return this Season, Should Eventually be 100%
Post by: kozlodoev on October 19, 2017, 11:17:47 AM
Agreed koz. Nor should the C's want him to, we have him for another two years at least.

Agreed.  There is zero incentive to rush him back.  Organization has to look at future, not just present.
Don't want to sound overly giddy, but the future seems pretty bright with Brown and Tatum.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman: Hayward Could return this Season, Should Eventually be 100%
Post by: Donoghus on October 19, 2017, 11:21:38 AM
Agreed koz. Nor should the C's want him to, we have him for another two years at least.

Agreed.  There is zero incentive to rush him back.  Organization has to look at future, not just present.
Don't want to sound overly giddy, but the future seems pretty bright with Brown and Tatum.

Immensely.  If LAL '18 can convey & Danny hits, watch out.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman: Hayward Could return this Season, Should Eventually be 100%
Post by: Snakehead on October 19, 2017, 11:24:46 AM
Agreed koz. Nor should the C's want him to, we have him for another two years at least.

Agreed.  There is zero incentive to rush him back.  Organization has to look at future, not just present.
Don't want to sound overly giddy, but the future seems pretty bright with Brown and Tatum.

There's legit reason to be very excited for both.  It's no green glasses.  You see it from people around the league at this point.  People should be high on both of them.

I dind't expect this team to beat Cleveland this year anyways.  If Gordon can recover well, the young guns will get more time in his absence and hopefully it can come together very well going forward.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman: Hayward Could return this Season, Should Eventually be 100%
Post by: Fan from VT on October 19, 2017, 11:29:26 AM
True. There really is no Silver Lining or Hidden Benefit, but, one way to regain some semblance of hope is to think that we were unlikely (but not impossible) to get past cleveland this year, so let's really accelerate the growth of Brown and Tatum this year, and be super ready to gun it next year.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman: Hayward Could return this Season, Should Eventually be 100%
Post by: gift on October 19, 2017, 12:01:07 PM
Physically, once he's healed there's probably not a major risk to coming back (as long as he hasn't overcompensated for the injury and thrown is body off balance). But mentally, starting your season/return while other teams are gearing up for playoff mode might be a little too much.

I remember hearing that bone breaks like these actually heal stronger than they were before. But you have a mental hurdle to get over that can take some time.

I didn't think Paul George should have come back the same season he broke his leg, but he seemed ok. I think the main point is to not pressure him during his recovery.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman: Hayward Could return this Season, Should Eventually be 100%
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on October 19, 2017, 12:03:00 PM
Just give him the entire year.

It's not just physically he has to heal, but he has to heal mentally too. That kind of injuries could affect someone's mindset, and he needs all the time in the world to get back to the mentality that he had before the injury. Otherwise, we will have a 100% physically ready Gordon Hayward, but yet so mentally checked out won't do things because of it.

Let this be the year we develop Jaylen and Jayson. Heal up Gordon, go for it again next year.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman: Hayward Could return this Season, Should Eventually be 100%
Post by: Surferdad on October 19, 2017, 12:14:42 PM
Just give him the entire year.

It's not just physically he has to heal, but he has to heal mentally too. That kind of injuries could affect someone's mindset, and he needs all the time in the world to get back to the mentality that he had before the injury. Otherwise, we will have a 100% physically ready Gordon Hayward, but yet so mentally checked out won't do things because of it.

Let this be the year we develop Jaylen and Jayson. Heal up Gordon, go for it again next year.
No sorry, I disagree.  Gordon has MONTHS to think about this injury, and even get some therapy/counseling if he wants,  but I bet all he really wants to do is get back on the court.  He doesn't need a separate period of mental rehab.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman: Hayward Could return this Season, Should Eventually be 100%
Post by: gift on October 19, 2017, 12:19:33 PM
Just give him the entire year.

It's not just physically he has to heal, but he has to heal mentally too. That kind of injuries could affect someone's mindset, and he needs all the time in the world to get back to the mentality that he had before the injury. Otherwise, we will have a 100% physically ready Gordon Hayward, but yet so mentally checked out won't do things because of it.

Let this be the year we develop Jaylen and Jayson. Heal up Gordon, go for it again next year.
No sorry, I disagree.  Gordon has MONTHS to think about this injury, and even get some therapy/counseling if he wants,  but I bet all he really wants to do is get back on the court.  He doesn't need a separate period of mental rehab.

Except that the kind of therapy he needs is to get back on the court at his own pace. He doesn't need to talk to someone about how it feels to dunk a basketball at full speed. He needs to work his own mind up to it. His mind will be telling him not to do it at first. He needs to work his way back mentally by physically doing things at a slower pace than a real nba game or even practice demands.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman: Hayward Could return this Season, Should Eventually be 100%
Post by: footey on October 19, 2017, 12:28:34 PM
Agreed koz. Nor should the C's want him to, we have him for another two years at least.

Agreed.  There is zero incentive to rush him back.  Organization has to look at future, not just present.
Don't want to sound overly giddy, but the future seems pretty bright with Brown and Tatum.

There's legit reason to be very excited for both.  It's no green glasses.  You see it from people around the league at this point.  People should be high on both of them.

I dind't expect this team to beat Cleveland this year anyways.  If Gordon can recover well, the young guns will get more time in his absence and hopefully it can come together very well going forward.

I truly believe that if Hayward did not get hurt, this team was equipped to beat the Cavs this season in playoffs.  And definitely got that vibe in the 5 plus minutes before crash.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman: Hayward Could return this Season, Should Eventually be 100%
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on October 19, 2017, 12:40:44 PM
Agreed koz. Nor should the C's want him to, we have him for another two years at least.

Agreed.  There is zero incentive to rush him back.  Organization has to look at future, not just present.
Don't want to sound overly giddy, but the future seems pretty bright with Brown and Tatum.

There's legit reason to be very excited for both.  It's no green glasses.  You see it from people around the league at this point.  People should be high on both of them.

I dind't expect this team to beat Cleveland this year anyways.  If Gordon can recover well, the young guns will get more time in his absence and hopefully it can come together very well going forward.

I truly believe that if Hayward did not get hurt, this team was equipped to beat the Cavs this season in playoffs.  And definitely got that vibe in the 5 plus minutes before crash.

I agree that Boston could've beaten them in the playoffs. Having Irving and Hayward meant two go-to scorers, so Cleveland couldn't get away with anymore of that crazy double- and triple-teaming they were doing to IT last season. If they tried that, Boston could've made them pay.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman: Hayward Could return this Season, Should Eventually be 100%
Post by: Surferdad on October 19, 2017, 12:45:02 PM
Agreed koz. Nor should the C's want him to, we have him for another two years at least.

Agreed.  There is zero incentive to rush him back.  Organization has to look at future, not just present.
Don't want to sound overly giddy, but the future seems pretty bright with Brown and Tatum.

There's legit reason to be very excited for both.  It's no green glasses.  You see it from people around the league at this point.  People should be high on both of them.

I dind't expect this team to beat Cleveland this year anyways.  If Gordon can recover well, the young guns will get more time in his absence and hopefully it can come together very well going forward.

I truly believe that if Hayward did not get hurt, this team was equipped to beat the Cavs this season in playoffs.  And definitely got that vibe in the 5 plus minutes before crash.

I agree that Boston could've beaten them in the playoffs. Having Irving and Hayward meant two go-to scorers, so Cleveland couldn't get away with anymore of that crazy double- and triple-teaming they were doing to IT last season. If they tried that, Boston could've made them pay.
There's still a shot, people!  Only 5 guys can play at a time and the way Brown/Tatum are shooting....