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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: CelticsElite on October 17, 2017, 11:58:40 PM

Title: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: CelticsElite on October 17, 2017, 11:58:40 PM
https://youtu.be/axJswI60JwE


My interpretation- Crowder gets under and takes out his legs with a hip check before Hayward touches the ball. Leaves Hayward landing awkwardly. Whistle blows then Crowder walks away with what looks like a  smirk? Maybe a grimace from not being able to look at what happened? Hard to see. Idk if it was dirty but may have been more "physical" than he needed to be

You may have your own interpretation completely different than mine
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: Smartacus on October 18, 2017, 12:04:04 AM
I just can't tonight...

We'll see what happens. Hopefully Gordon is OK but in terms of throwing the blame around... I just can't tonight... :'(
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: SparzWizard on October 18, 2017, 12:06:00 AM
Man eff Crowder. He's just bitter that he got replaced. Hope someone takes him out, sick of that thug.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: droopdog7 on October 18, 2017, 12:06:44 AM
He diagnosed the play and went for the ball.  Very unfortunate for us but not dirty.  Frankly, as the play was unfolding my question was, why throw the pass that clearly was not open.  I have a bigger problem with that.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: CelticD on October 18, 2017, 12:10:42 AM
That one jerk in the orange shirt near the stairs that clapped should get slept.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: MJohnnyboy on October 18, 2017, 12:13:54 AM
Nope. I think Crowder was trying to catch up to Hayward to try to blow the alley-oop more than anything. The only thing he did was latch onto Hayward's arm. This was just a freak accident which happens every now and again. However, a foul absolutely should have been called.

How can you tell the look on Crowder's face was a laughing smirk? It looked to me more like a grimace, but I don't think anyone can tell from that camera angle, which was too far away, to make out Crowder's facial expression.

Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: crimson_stallion on October 18, 2017, 12:28:57 AM
I honestly don't think it was dirty. 

Looking at the replay, that doesn't look like a smirk on Crowder's face to me.  To me that looked like an expression of horror and guilt.  The look in his eyes, in particular - was not a look of amusement.

Looking at Thompson, Wade and Lebron they all looked sick to the stomach just from seeing the injury.  Thompson was facing the other way like he couldn't bare to look. 

As much as I hate the Cavs and would love any excuse to point fingers at them, I think all of those guys sincerely felt horrible.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: 18isGREATERthan72 on October 18, 2017, 12:39:43 AM
I've watched it quite a few times....  Nothing about it seems dirty to me, and I didn't get a feel from anyone that they were happy about it.  Every single player was devastated.  This is a completely freak accident that has only happened a handful of times.  The "undercut" was very minimal if at all...  It was a contested alley oop, versus  Hayward already being in the air and someone "running" under him.  Quite a bit different.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: trickybilly on October 18, 2017, 12:54:31 AM
Great job by Kevin Harlan and REggie
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: Chief Macho on October 18, 2017, 01:38:52 AM
no. he was just trying to body him out of the oop.   bad luck.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: Beat LA on October 18, 2017, 01:40:20 AM
Great job by Kevin Harlan and REggie

Said no one, ever :laugh:.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: Chris22 on October 18, 2017, 02:25:35 AM
Lebron injures another player "accidentally." See Danny Granger.
Lebron and Wade are the dirtiest players in basketball.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: RockinRyA on October 18, 2017, 02:41:33 AM
Nah I dont think so. It was a play for the ball.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: Csfan1984 on October 18, 2017, 03:17:00 AM
I felt it was a risky play. As are a lot of attempts at last second block attempts. When you are out of position to challenge a shot if you have safety in mind you avoid drawing unnecessary contact and do not jump at a guy in the air. It's as simple as that to me. I believe Crowder and LeBron didn't have the angle for that play and Hayward payed the price.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: trickybilly on October 18, 2017, 03:24:12 AM
Great job by Kevin Harlan and REggie

Said no one, ever :laugh:.

Funnily enough that was a compliment for them shutting up.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: Roy H. on October 18, 2017, 06:06:20 AM
No.

Sometimes there's nobody to blame. It's not on Crowder, or Lebron, or Kyrie, or Hayward himself.  It just happened.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: Onslaught on October 18, 2017, 06:09:23 AM
No.

Sometimes there's nobody to blame. It's not on Crowder, or Lebron, or Kyrie, or Hayward himself.  It just happened.

I agree. At first I wanted to throw blame at someone too but in the end it's just one of those horrible things that can happen.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: Green-18 on October 18, 2017, 06:41:44 AM
Nothing dirty by anyone.  This is a non-discussion.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: Celtics4ever on October 18, 2017, 06:49:14 AM
I think Crowder was going at it hard last night.   There were some plays where he simply was throwing his body around.   He did that for us when he played for us.   That stopped when he tangled with Baines.

LeBron clotheslined him watch the play.  LeBron gets away with murder all the time.  It was him who was dirty hitting a guy in the air.   There was more contact in that play than folks think.   When you hit a guy who was in the air, he is vulnerable.

http://www.nba.com/article/2017/10/17/celtics-gordon-hayward-suffers-lower-left-leg-injury#/
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: spikelovetheCelts on October 18, 2017, 07:17:41 AM
I think Crowder was going at it hard last night.   There were some plays where he simply was throwing his body around.   He did that for us when he played for us.   That stopped when he tangled with Baines.

LeBron clotheslined him watch the play.  LeBron gets away with murder all the time.  It was him who was dirty hitting a guy in the air.   There was more contact in that play than folks think.   When you hit a guy who was in the air, he is vulnerable.

http://www.nba.com/article/2017/10/17/celtics-gordon-hayward-suffers-lower-left-leg-injury#/
I thought the same that is why he was so nice to Heyward because he knows the truth. I was in the I don't like Lebron camp but now I am a new camp for him.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: Smitty77 on October 18, 2017, 07:34:04 AM
No.

Sometimes there's nobody to blame. It's not on Crowder, or Lebron, or Kyrie, or Hayward himself.  It just happened.

You are partially right in that the break just happened.  But, you are dead wrong in that the hip check and the clothesline in mid-air "just happened" Roy.  Both Crowder and especially Lebron are veterans and both knew what they were doing.  They were sending a message.  After all the things that Crowder said about Boston signing Hayward, you certainly have CLEAR motive.  Watch the replay over and over again and just watch the force of the hip check while Hayward was defenseless in the air.

Smitty77

Smitty77
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: Smitty77 on October 18, 2017, 07:36:15 AM
no. he was just trying to body him out of the oop.   bad luck.

While he was in mid-air.  Come on Chief Macho!!!!

Smitty77
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: Who on October 18, 2017, 07:45:33 AM
Normal foul. Just landed awkwardly. Unlucky.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: Roy H. on October 18, 2017, 07:47:40 AM
No.

Sometimes there's nobody to blame. It's not on Crowder, or Lebron, or Kyrie, or Hayward himself.  It just happened.

You are partially right in that the break just happened.  But, you are dead wrong in that the hip check and the clothesline in mid-air "just happened" Roy.  Both Crowder and especially Lebron are veterans and both knew what they were doing.  They were sending a message.  After all the things that Crowder said about Boston signing Hayward, you certainly have CLEAR motive.  Watch the replay over and over again and just watch the force of the hip check while Hayward was defenseless in the air.

Smitty77

Smitty77

Contact happens in the air all the time. It doesn't make a play dirty, though.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: pearljammer10 on October 18, 2017, 07:54:49 AM
No.

Sometimes there's nobody to blame. It's not on Crowder, or Lebron, or Kyrie, or Hayward himself.  It just happened.

You are partially right in that the break just happened.  But, you are dead wrong in that the hip check and the clothesline in mid-air "just happened" Roy.  Both Crowder and especially Lebron are veterans and both knew what they were doing.  They were sending a message.  After all the things that Crowder said about Boston signing Hayward, you certainly have CLEAR motive.  Watch the replay over and over again and just watch the force of the hip check while Hayward was defenseless in the air.

Smitty77

Smitty77

Contact happens in the air all the time. It doesn't make a play dirty, though.

Contact happens in the air but you don't hip check a player in mid air. Unlucky yes. Do I blame Lebron for the clothesline? No. Is Crowder somewhat at fault for the hip check, in my eyes 100%. His one arm might be in the air to "make a play for the ball" but he tangles up Hayward with his other arm and clearly sticks his hip out and undercuts him.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: tazzmaniac on October 18, 2017, 07:55:29 AM
At 2:30, I don't see a clothesline.  Lebron's left arm stays raised through the contact. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRe-AdlD4uQ
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on October 18, 2017, 08:34:05 AM
Did no t seem like a dirty play in my mind.   That was incredibly awkward freakish fall.  Super unlucky way to land .  I wonder if he was stretched, loose enough , being early in season maybe he was still tight .   I m so sorry for his family having to see that .  Hopefully he can play again .
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: cltc5 on October 18, 2017, 08:50:30 AM
Crowder can suck it.  Intentional or not.  He's been a crybaby Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. for the last two years.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on October 18, 2017, 08:52:31 AM
Yes, it was incredibly dirty from Crowder. He got beat and he hip checked Hayward while he went to the air. It got compounded by the contact with LeBron (which I don't think was dirty, he made a play for the ball).

But what Crowder did was definitely dirty. Don't see how anyone can rationalize it otherwise.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: positivitize on October 18, 2017, 09:20:18 AM
Not a dirty play. Just a normal basketball play. No one's fault.

Just sucks.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: rollie mass on October 18, 2017, 09:31:03 AM
What about Lebrons hip check that sent Jaylen flying into the sideline seats-?
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: Erik on October 18, 2017, 09:42:36 AM
I suppose one could blame the NBA for not testing for HGH and other drugs. How they find it safe for players to be playing alongside people like LeBron James is beyond me.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: dmopower on October 18, 2017, 09:48:50 AM
 Crowder got beat.  There was no reason for his arm to be tangled as Hayward did not even have the ball yet, so he has no playing the ball argument and def no reason his hip or butt should have been in the play what so ever. I dont think Crowder meant to hurt him like that but he had every intention of negatively affecting Haywards ability to rise up and finnish the play.

 I hate lebron.  But in this case had Hayward been allowed to lift up I think this play ends up a non issue as Hayward would have been able to actually beat Labron to the ball. Did anyone else notice Hayward got little lift and lebron actually beat him to the ball?

 I see it as a cheap play by Crowder whom def had a chip from the opening tip.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: fairweatherfan on October 18, 2017, 09:52:16 AM
Not dirty. Probably should've been a foul but also not the kind of foul they usually call. But not dirty, just a routine challenge of a lob. Notice not a peep from a single player, coach, or a real analyst even suggesting anything else.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: csfansince60s on October 18, 2017, 10:24:16 AM
Lebron injures another player "accidentally." See Danny Granger.
Lebron and Wade are the dirtiest players in basketball.

...and now you can add Crowder to that list that also includes J.R. Smith.

Team is a bunch of thugs....hopefully they all get theirs someday.

The play by both James and Crowder was at best reckless ands at worst malicious.

Given the circumstances (opening night vs main rival and wanting to set a tone, displacement of Crowder by Hayward, histrories of the players) and Crowder windmilling his arm and the vunerability in the air of a player on an alley-oop, Im thinking the latter.

 

Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: Tr1boy on October 18, 2017, 10:27:46 AM
Crowder overall was being a punk

What did Horford do to him?

Did he trade you? He was also barking at Tatum

Misdirected anger
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: gouki88 on October 18, 2017, 10:34:43 AM
Crowder overall was being a punk

What did Horford do to him?

Did he trade you? He was also barking at Tatum

Misdirected anger
He's the one guy we lost that I absolutely will not miss.

Hopefully Yabu morphs into Karl Malone and gives the Cavs the Isiah Thomas treatment
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on October 18, 2017, 12:25:16 PM
Not a dirty play. Just a normal basketball play. No one's fault.

Just sucks.

Not sure what makes giving a hip check to someone who's in mid air a normal basketball play, but to each their own.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: Fafnir on October 18, 2017, 12:28:29 PM
Not dirty. Probably should've been a foul but also not the kind of foul they usually call. But not dirty, just a routine challenge of a lob. Notice not a peep from a single player, coach, or a real analyst even suggesting anything else.
Yeah the bumping as someone goes up for a tip in or rebound is one that's not called a ton and happens a lot.

Just sucks  :(
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: hpantazo on October 18, 2017, 12:35:25 PM
I don’t think that play was intentional in any way, but Crowders attitude the rest of the game, particularly with Horford and Baynes, was. Crowder is a loser with some self esteem and anger issues. I’m so glad we traded him. If he was still here he’d spend the year fuming about Jaylen and Tatum getting playing time and then he’d half ass it on the floor like he did last year
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: CelticsElite on October 18, 2017, 01:07:31 PM
Crowder overall was being a punk

What did Horford do to him?

Did he trade you? He was also barking at Tatum

Misdirected anger
he was also talking trash to semi. "you know your garbage" he repeated.
Wonder what he said to tatum? Tatum seemed  mad for once
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: Billz401 on October 18, 2017, 01:22:16 PM
Crowder overall was being a punk

What did Horford do to him?

Did he trade you? He was also barking at Tatum

Misdirected anger
he was also talking trash to semi. "you know your garbage" he repeated.
Wonder what he said to tatum? Tatum seemed  mad for once
I noticed him glare at jae on that alley he dropped on his face later on. Mad me proud especially since he's so soft spoken and rarely has shown emotion on court or off
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: Tr1boy on October 18, 2017, 01:22:57 PM
I thought it was clean but the more I look at it

League should review

Any injury that turns into something like this needs to be reviewed

The only way to stop a play like this is to jump up with the player or face him. Backing into him with ass out (trying to prevent the jump or could turn into an awkward landing) is never the way.

Crowder shouls be suspended/fined

This kind of play or Zaza rule should be automatic fines/suspensions
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: green_bballers13 on October 18, 2017, 01:26:46 PM
Not a dirty play.

As much as I want to believe that Jae was trying to somehow injure Hayward, I just don't think this is the case.

Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: Big333223 on October 18, 2017, 01:26:46 PM
I just don't see it. The injury was a freak accident and I think the result is making some people see things. If everything else had been the same but Hayward hadn't come down on his leg weird, I doubt anyone would've thought twice about the play.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: Tr1boy on October 18, 2017, 01:29:02 PM
I just don't see it. The injury was a freak accident and I think the result is making some people see things. If everything else had been the same but Hayward hadn't come down on his leg weird, I doubt anyone would've thought twice about the play.

Was it really a freak accident?  What if Jae didnt do what he did.... You think GH injury happens
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: fairweatherfan on October 18, 2017, 01:31:07 PM
Not dirty. Probably should've been a foul but also not the kind of foul they usually call. But not dirty, just a routine challenge of a lob. Notice not a peep from a single player, coach, or a real analyst even suggesting anything else.
Yeah the bumping as someone goes up for a tip in or rebound is one that's not called a ton and happens a lot.

Just sucks  :(

It's a good argument for why it should be looked out for and called more often, injuries are bound to happen when bumping/guiding guys in midair becomes routine. But still not dirty. Just dangerous.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: Billz401 on October 18, 2017, 01:34:37 PM
Do I think Crowder went into the motion thinking he wanted to injure Gordon, highly doubt it. But make no mistakes about it, he knew what he was doing. Everyone who has ever played basketball knows that you don't hit someone mid air because this type of thing is a possibility. My main gripe with the whole thing is that the refs were oblivious to an obvious foul that every1 could see and unfortunately led to a horrific injury. But this is expected when the Celts are playing in Cleveland, or on nationally televised games, or any game for that matter..
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: Big333223 on October 18, 2017, 01:44:25 PM
double post
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: Big333223 on October 18, 2017, 01:47:43 PM
I just don't see it. The injury was a freak accident and I think the result is making some people see things. If everything else had been the same but Hayward hadn't come down on his leg weird, I doubt anyone would've thought twice about the play.

Was it really a freak accident?  What if Jae didnt do what he did.... You think GH injury happens
I don't know. That's the thing about freak accidents. They're not really predictable.

But I think what I wrote still stands. If Crowder and Lebron had done exactly what they did but Hayward had come down slightly differently, no one would've given that play a second though.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: mmmmm on October 18, 2017, 02:05:25 PM
No.

Sometimes there's nobody to blame. It's not on Crowder, or Lebron, or Kyrie, or Hayward himself.  It just happened.

This^.

Crowder was just playing basketball, trying to break up the oop pass.   He played just as hard for us as a Celtic and it wasn't a dirty play then.   He maybe could have been called for the contact, but that would be normal foul.

These sorts of bump plays happen a zillion times in every game.

Bad luck just happens sometime.   And this was freakish bad luck.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: nickagneta on October 18, 2017, 02:08:25 PM
I haven't seen a lot of different angles on the play but it difn't appear there was a ton of contact, just ordinary contact when someone goes up. I don't see anything dirty and especially not malicious. Hayward was just thrown off bakance a bit and landed poorly. Freak accident is all. No one's fault.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on October 18, 2017, 02:10:37 PM
I just don't see it. The injury was a freak accident and I think the result is making some people see things. If everything else had been the same but Hayward hadn't come down on his leg weird, I doubt anyone would've thought twice about the play.

Was it really a freak accident?  What if Jae didnt do what he did.... You think GH injury happens
I don't know. That's the thing about freak accidents. They're not really predictable.

But I think what I wrote still stands. If Crowder and Lebron had done exactly what they did but Hayward had come down slightly differently, no one would've given that play a second though.

No one gives much thought when a player throws arms recklessly around until, you know, an elbow lands on someone's cranium.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on October 18, 2017, 02:14:56 PM
I haven't seen a lot of different angles on the play but it difn't appear there was a ton of contact, just ordinary contact when someone goes up. I don't see anything dirty and especially not malicious. Hayward was just thrown off bakance a bit and landed poorly. Freak accident is all. No one's fault.

Here's the one I'm seeing... Crowder clearly throws his hip at Hayward while he's in the air. I just can't sit here and accept that anyone would call that normal contact and ordinary when someone goes up. That's just completely false. Malicious intent or not aside. The play was just dirty.

https://twitter.com/jva4/status/920460872748797954
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: green_bballers13 on October 18, 2017, 02:17:23 PM
I haven't seen a lot of different angles on the play but it difn't appear there was a ton of contact, just ordinary contact when someone goes up. I don't see anything dirty and especially not malicious. Hayward was just thrown off bakance a bit and landed poorly. Freak accident is all. No one's fault.

Here's the one I'm seeing... Crowder clearly throws his hip at Hayward while he's in the air. I just can't sit here and accept that anyone would call that normal contact and ordinary when someone goes up. That's just completely false. Malicious intent or not aside. The play was just dirty.

https://twitter.com/jva4/status/920460872748797954

I think we are capable of seeing what we want to see. I did not see what you described.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: j804 on October 18, 2017, 02:21:29 PM
I haven't seen a lot of different angles on the play but it difn't appear there was a ton of contact, just ordinary contact when someone goes up. I don't see anything dirty and especially not malicious. Hayward was just thrown off bakance a bit and landed poorly. Freak accident is all. No one's fault.

Here's the one I'm seeing... Crowder clearly throws his hip at Hayward while he's in the air. I just can't sit here and accept that anyone would call that normal contact and ordinary when someone goes up. That's just completely false. Malicious intent or not aside. The play was just dirty.

https://twitter.com/jva4/status/920460872748797954
Was GH wearing the Kyrie shoes? Does he not normally wear those, wonder if he had high tops or something this could have been prevented. I have some and they have crazy grip where whichever way you plant they do not budge. 
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: Ilikesports17 on October 18, 2017, 02:41:14 PM
Thats a dirty play from Crowder

100% clean on Lebron's end.

Ridiculous to blame Crowder for the injury or to assume that he intended for Gordon to get hurt, but he made a dangerous and dirty play in attempt to make the oop difficult for Gordon.

No malicious intent, but absolutely a dirty play. Dont see much difference between Wade pulling Rondo down and Klynyk pulling Love's arm out.

Guys making dirty plays with no intention to hurt or injure. They are still dirty, all 3 guys knew they were dirty plays and all did them to try to make the play difficult for the other player rather than to hurt them.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: nickagneta on October 18, 2017, 03:38:20 PM
I haven't seen a lot of different angles on the play but it difn't appear there was a ton of contact, just ordinary contact when someone goes up. I don't see anything dirty and especially not malicious. Hayward was just thrown off bakance a bit and landed poorly. Freak accident is all. No one's fault.

Here's the one I'm seeing... Crowder clearly throws his hip at Hayward while he's in the air. I just can't sit here and accept that anyone would call that normal contact and ordinary when someone goes up. That's just completely false. Malicious intent or not aside. The play was just dirty.

https://twitter.com/jva4/status/920460872748797954
I am not seeing it. Heck from that angle I am not sure Crowder even touched him with anything but his arm. In that angle it looks more like the contact from Lebron through Hayward off balance, not that Crowder did.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on October 18, 2017, 04:12:07 PM
This video (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21057093/gordon-hayward-suffers-leg-injury-boston-celtics-debut) offers a better view. Looks to me like Crowder used his hip to push under Hayward. I'm sure he didn't intend to hurt Hayward, but I think some "blame" can be attributed to Crowder.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: nickagneta on October 18, 2017, 04:18:05 PM
This video (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21057093/gordon-hayward-suffers-leg-injury-boston-celtics-debut) offers a better view. Looks to me like Crowder used his hip to push under Hayward. I'm sure he didn't intend to hurt Hayward, but I think some "blame" can be attributed to Crowder.
Again, can't even be sure Crowder touched him except with his arm in that angle. It still looks like Lebron's contact is what threw Hayward off balance.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: nickagneta on October 18, 2017, 04:24:55 PM
Unless someone has an angle from underneath the basket or from the Cavs bench, I am not sure how anyone can say definitively that Crowder even touched Hayward with his back or hip.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: Donoghus on October 18, 2017, 04:25:16 PM
People treating this like the Zapruder film. 

I don't see anything remotely conclusive that this was a dirty play.  I'm sure the league office sees it the same way.   It was just a freak act. 
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: nickagneta on October 18, 2017, 04:28:10 PM
People treating this like the Zapruder film. 

I don't see anything remotely conclusive that this was a dirty play.  I'm sure the league office sees it the same way.   It was just a freak act.
Exactly. Just ordinary contact that threw Hayward into a bad landing.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: mmmmm on October 18, 2017, 04:59:53 PM
This video (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21057093/gordon-hayward-suffers-leg-injury-boston-celtics-debut) offers a better view. Looks to me like Crowder used his hip to push under Hayward. I'm sure he didn't intend to hurt Hayward, but I think some "blame" can be attributed to Crowder.

'Just not seeing it.

I'm watching it in super-slow-mo and I see Crowder trying to stay in front of Hayward's cut and then turning/ducking behind Hayward as Lebron leaped up to disrupt the pass.  The more I watch it, the more minimal Crowder's contact seems to be.

If anything caused Hayward's body to rotate it was actually the counter-impulse of Lebron's contact with Gordon's hands causing the top of his body to suddenly go slower than his legs (and thus they swing forward).    But that is clearly not a 'dirty play'.    It's just a basketball play (possibly a normal foul) that ended up with an awful result.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: Monkhouse on October 18, 2017, 05:17:49 PM
Even if it was, what's the point? Are we going to just hate Crowder for the rest of his life? I don't get some users here. Validating whether or not the play in question is considered dirty, wouldn't fix or change the outcome of Hayward's injury...

Its a sad state of affairs, but we must move on and hope for the best.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: dmopower on October 18, 2017, 05:30:30 PM
I haven't seen a lot of different angles on the play but it difn't appear there was a ton of contact, just ordinary contact when someone goes up. I don't see anything dirty and especially not malicious. Hayward was just thrown off bakance a bit and landed poorly. Freak accident is all. No one's fault.

Here's the one I'm seeing... Crowder clearly throws his hip at Hayward while he's in the air. I just can't sit here and accept that anyone would call that normal contact and ordinary when someone goes up. That's just completely false. Malicious intent or not aside. The play was just dirty.

https://twitter.com/jva4/status/920460872748797954

 Great assesment. It was clearly a cheap play on Crowder.  Nobody throws their but out like that for no reason.  This aint dancing with the stars.  It was cheap, our guy got hurt and there should be accountability period.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: footey on October 18, 2017, 05:33:17 PM
There is nothing to suggest that anything dirty was done here.  There is pushing and shoving on virtually every play in the NBA. To single out what Crowder did here, due to the injury that resulted, is patently unfair.  It's a physical game. A player takes a risk everytime he leaves the ground, every jump shot, every rebound, every attempted block.  It 's a miracle we don't see far more injuries like this.

Wish this thread would just go away. I find the question asked inappropriate and unfair to Jae.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: dmopower on October 18, 2017, 05:39:19 PM
There is nothing to suggest that anything dirty was done here.  There is pushing and shoving on virtually every play in the NBA. To single out what Crowder did here, due to the injury that resulted, is patently unfair.  It's a physical game. A player takes a risk everytime he leaves the ground, every jump shot, every rebound, every attempted block.  It 's a miracle we don't see far more injuries like this.

Wish this thread would just go away. I find the question asked inappropriate and unfair to Jae.

 Funny.  Throwing a hip and causing an injury is ok.  Calling someone out for throwing a hip and causing injury...Inappropriate and unfair.   ****!!!!   Just wow. 
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on October 18, 2017, 05:47:42 PM
This video (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21057093/gordon-hayward-suffers-leg-injury-boston-celtics-debut) offers a better view. Looks to me like Crowder used his hip to push under Hayward. I'm sure he didn't intend to hurt Hayward, but I think some "blame" can be attributed to Crowder.

'Just not seeing it.

I'm watching it in super-slow-mo and I see Crowder trying to stay in front of Hayward's cut and then turning/ducking behind Hayward as Lebron leaped up to disrupt the pass.  The more I watch it, the more minimal Crowder's contact seems to be.

If anything caused Hayward's body to rotate it was actually the counter-impulse of Lebron's contact with Gordon's hands causing the top of his body to suddenly go slower than his legs (and thus they swing forward).    But that is clearly not a 'dirty play'.    It's just a basketball play (possibly a normal foul) that ended up with an awful result.

As Hayward goes up, Crowder places his right hip against Hayward's left, then Crowder backs into and somewhat underneath Hayward. At least, that's how I see it.

And I'm not saying it was a dirty play; I don't think it was. But it's clear (again, to me) that there's contact that contributed to Hayward's fall, though LeBron probably contributed as well (but also not dirty).
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: GreenWarrior on October 18, 2017, 06:03:17 PM
I think crowder turned towards Hayward to avoid LeBron coming in.
Title: Re: Crowder on Hayward - was it a dirty play?
Post by: guava_wrench on October 18, 2017, 06:18:33 PM
Nothing dirty. Stuff like that happens sometimes when guys are jumping so hard and weigh so much.