CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: CELTICSofBOSTON on October 16, 2017, 01:47:08 AM
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https://youtu.be/a_DkqCtVDR4
This YouTube video talks about Tatums two way potential. I was particularly impressed by the footage in the second half of the video where he goes into Tatums precocious defensive smarts.
How good can Tatum be on defense?
Also, is playing the four going to slow down his development guarding on the perimeter?
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He’s not that good at defense. He’s just not completely lost like a lot of rookies are, which is a big plus. But as far as being “very, very good at team defense” is just wrong. He’s solid at team defense for a rookie.
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He’s not that good at defense. He’s just not completely lost like a lot of rookies are, which is a big plus. But as far as being “very, very good at team defense” is just wrong. He’s solid at team defense for a rookie.
He has his opinion. You have yours. But until we see actual stats on how well Tatum is performing on individual and team defense both are meaningless.
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What? I watched all preseason games and he basically got torched in all plays. He looked like James harden. The opposing team was making it a habit of going at him... because he's a rookie playing against starters.
It's one thing to overhype our players but this is just disgustingly inaccurate. He's a rookie. His defense will suck for a while. Potential, we'll see.
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If you only consider highlights, you can turn anybody into a very good defender. I think Tatum has some good instincts but he's got a long way to go before he's good at NBA defense.
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If you only consider highlights, you can turn anybody into a very good defender. I think Tatum has some good instincts but he's got a long way to go before he's good at NBA defense.
This. Tatum is another case of a young player having a few of the tools you need to be good at defense. In my opinion he is still a ways away. He will be the worst defender of our starting 5, and with Kyrie out there, that's saying something.
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Thanks for the link, that was a pretty thorough look at his play so far.
Very, Very good seems a stretch, but I'm optimistic that he's going to have a solid rookie season. Looking forward to seeing how it plays out.
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He looks to me like a future two-way player, although it's easy to overstate how good he is right now: rookies are almost always below average on D, and Tatum will be no exception.
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If you only consider highlights, you can turn anybody into a very good defender. I think Tatum has some good instincts but he's got a long way to go before he's good at NBA defense.
Especially since even in the highlights he was getting taken off the dribble 1v1, not being able to navigate screens effectively. They would have open looks and miss the shot and consider that "good defense" because the guy missed.
He looked better in Summer league, but the 3rd overall pick should look good in summer league against 2nd rounders of relatively same age.
He has to develop better lateral movement to get in front of the player like Smart does to be considered a very, very good defender. Getting blown by and relying on help defense / relying on the player to miss the shot is not good defense. He still a long way to go.
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I think he's got a lot of work to do on man to man defense. However, because he's long, he'll learn real quick and no better time to throw him in the fire against the Cavs. Don't coddle him like these other teams, let him get comfortable and by Xmas he'll be much improved. He's a excellent rebounder though.
He'll be fine
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He’s not that good at defense. He’s just not completely lost like a lot of rookies are, which is a big plus. But as far as being “very, very good at team defense” is just wrong. He’s solid at team defense for a rookie.
He has his opinion. You have yours. But until we see actual stats on how well Tatum is performing on individual and team defense both are meaningless.
Again, it’s been established you don’t watch the games. So no, we don’t need to wait for advanced stats to come out to tell us who is a good defender or not. Because some of us here actually watch the games and know basketball. You just don’t.
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Biggest candidate for ROY. I know Ball will have better stats, but generally, on a tanking team, just as Lakers are, I disagree to choose a player for ROY. It's a different level of responsibility in play of a strong team (I won't say contender) as Celtics and some tanking-mode team. It's just not fair.
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Tatum gets no respect for the refs on D, that is to be expected. But he has enough athletic ability to do his rotations and move around. Some of our previous guys had to rely a lot on anticipation to defend. Tatum has some of that and some athletic ability. I like the fact that the team is becoming more athletic across the board.
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He's been pretty active on the defensive end so far. For a guy that was supposed to be all scoring, I've been very impressed with him defense. In 2 years, when he's filled out and more capable of holding his ground, he'll be even better.
All encouraging signs for me, so far.
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The video that was linked to above nailed it. He does a lot of the little things very well on defense -- knowing when to switch/help/recover, going after defensive rebounds, staying in front, not biting on pump fakes, etc. Of course he's got a learning curve, but it's amazing how mature he looks on the defensive end. And of course, just being intelligent and fairly athletic with super long arms can get you really far as a defender in the NBA.
I felt like Avery Bradley was an excellent on-ball defender, but wasn't a great team defender (in part because he was a 6'2" shooting guard). Tatum can be the exact opposite: Not at all sexy, but exactly the kind of switch-everything, team defender that you need given the way the game's played nowadays.
Your eyes aren't fooling you: this kid is legit.
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I liked it when he blocked Dwight Howard's shot.
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He is showing some improvements still a ways to go
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Its crazy how his strength, explosivness has improved in a matter of months(off season). Also looks confident taking the 3
He is going to be a very good Celtic
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I wouldn't peg him as a "very very good" team defender quite yet, but he definitely seems to be doing better than the average rookie on defense and I think that bodes well for his development.
I will say defensively he appears to be very active which I like... Once he gains more of that veteran savviness I am sure he will have even better instincts for things like blocks and steals. I see him being great for switching being able to guard 1-5 (against small ball lineups) once he gains some strength and also being very disruptive with his length and being able to get into passing lanes.
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Let's see against the Knicks - Jayson Tatum 4 steals 2 blocks. One of our best defenders on the floor. He bothers people's shot with that length and he gets in the right position to pick off passes. What's not to like?
I really was not expecting Tatum to be so solid defensively. His main selling point had been based on his offense!
Oh and he chipped in there too 22 points, 4/6 from 3pt land. If Tatum produces those numbers on a nightly basis, he is EASILY in the ROTY award conversation!!
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I wouldn't peg him as a "very very good" team defender quite yet, but he definitely seems to be doing better than the average rookie on defense and I think that bodes well for his development.
I will say defensively he appears to be very active which I like... Once he gains more of that veteran savviness I am sure he will have even better instincts for things like blocks and steals. I see him being great for switching being able to guard 1-5 (against small ball lineups) once he gains some strength and also being very disruptive with his length and being able to get into passing lanes.
maybe "very very good" for a rookie.
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Let's see against the Knicks - Jayson Tatum 4 steals 2 blocks. One of our best defenders on the floor. He bothers people's shot with that length and he gets in the right position to pick off passes. What's not to like?
I really was not expecting Tatum to be so solid defensively. His main selling point had been based on his offense!
Oh and he chipped in there too 22 points, 4/6 from 3pt land. If Tatum produces those numbers on a nightly basis, he is EASILY in the ROTY award conversation!!
I always thought the defensive concerns were way overblown.
Tatum has a 7'0" wingspan and an 8'10" standing reach - while his head might only stand 6'8" off the ground, he's length and reach comparable to Al Horford, who has shown he can defend multiple positions very well for years.
In addition to that Tatum seems to have high basketball IQ, great worth ethic and a strong motor - as well as a genuine team-first attitude.
Tatum lacks Horford's physical strength, but that's something you expect him to add in time - just look at Dwigtht and Anthony Davis as draftees, and then look at their physiques 3 years later. With muscle added, I can't see any reason why he should have any issues being a quality defender at the NBA level.
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In his first 4 games alone, Tatum looks to be ahead of any rookie I've seen on this team since Larry Bird, and Bird was 23 as a rookie. Pierce went for 16/6 his rookie year (at 21) and I don't recall him being as polished all around as our 19 yo Tatum.
Hopefully not over-hyping this kid - he just seems to do everything with poise, confidence and competence. Looks leaps and bounds better than Jaylen looked a year ago.
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He’s not that good at defense. He’s just not completely lost like a lot of rookies are, which is a big plus. But as far as being “very, very good at team defense” is just wrong. He’s solid at team defense for a rookie.
He has his opinion. You have yours. But until we see actual stats on how well Tatum is performing on individual and team defense both are meaningless.
I wouldn't say they are meaningless. The human eye has noticed more that stats have produced to date. Saying "he has his opinion, you have yours" is the ultimate way to stifle debate, it's an attempt to stop people from seeing other people's viewpoints. Not cool.
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In his first 4 games alone, Tatum looks to be ahead of any rookie I've seen on this team since Larry Bird, and Bird was 23 as a rookie. Pierce went for 16/6 his rookie year (at 21) and I don't recall him being as polished all around as our 19 yo Tatum.
Hopefully not over-hyping this kid - he just seems to do everything with poise, confidence and competence. Looks leaps and bounds better than Jaylen looked a year ago.
I don't think you are over-hyping him. He is as NBA-ready as a rookie can possibly be. I think the detractors of him would say that his ceiling is lower than those drafted ahead of him, in that what we are seeing from Tatum now is what about we will see in 5 years as well.
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Considering that Tatum appears to have the Tobias Harris / Harrison Barnes / Rudy Gay / Carmelo Anthony / Jabari Parker package on offense, if he can do what many of those guys have not done and consistently show focus & effort on defense, he will be quite valuable.
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The thing I’ve liked about Tatum since watching some of him at Duke is his court awareness/vision. The opening putback slam last night was an example — he started crashing the boards the instant Baynes put up the shot, and had the perfect angle/timing on his leap. That will help him on defense too. He’ll have his share of moments where another player beats him one-on-one due to superior ability, strength, or athleticism, as Tatum is only 19. But he’ll also have those moments where he anticipates a pass, or rotates quickly for a block, because he sees it coming and gets that extra half-step needed to make a play. Or even just forces a pass because he doesn’t get out of position on defense, and his length encourages his man to move the ball instead of taking a shot.
I was excited to draft him, but he’s really exceeded my expectations as to how quickly he’d able to positively contribute. I’m sure there will be some rough patches as teams figure out some of his weaknesses, and as the long season tests his endurance, but I’m beyond impressed through four games.
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I liked it when he blocked Dwight Howard's shot.
Can you provide me with a link to a video of that block please?
Thanks,
Smitty77
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Did Tatum grow an inch or am I just tripping?
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Did Tatum grow an inch or am I just tripping?
Is it a mutually exclusive question?
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Did Tatum grow an inch or am I just tripping?
Is it a mutually exclusive question?
Yes it was.
I noticed that he definitely seemed to be as tall as Horford/Baynes who are listed at 6'10.
Camera angles are always confusing though.
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Did Tatum grow an inch or am I just tripping?
Is it a mutually exclusive question?
Yes it was.
I noticed that he definitely seemed to be as tall as Horford/Baynes who are listed at 6'10.
Camera angles are always confusing though.
Predraft I remember reading that he’d grown while at Duke, so it’s not impossible he’s 6’10.
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Considering that Tatum appears to have the Tobias Harris / Harrison Barnes / Rudy Gay / Carmelo Anthony / Jabari Parker package on offense, if he can do what many of those guys have not done and consistently show focus & effort on defense, he will be quite valuable.
He has the Carmelo Anthony package on offense. I think he has a much more impressive package than the rest of those guys, no pun intended.