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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: playdream on September 23, 2017, 12:59:36 PM

Title: About the shooting foul rule change
Post by: playdream on September 23, 2017, 12:59:36 PM
Seems like you can't "buy" foul anymore

doesn't this mean player like Bulter,DDR ,IT, even Durant's game will take a huge hit, and our big three or the Jays game won't be affect much? I think it's a huge good news for us

anyone knows more specifically what will it affect players(benefit us)
Title: Re: About the shooting foul rule change
Post by: bopna on September 23, 2017, 01:09:05 PM
Can you explain further?
Title: Re: About the shooting foul rule change
Post by: greece66 on September 23, 2017, 01:20:05 PM
Can you explain further?

Maybe the OP has this in mind (?)

(https://i.gyazo.com/dc93e7fb1a5dfa4258af9cec1d34ecbc.png)

https://twitter.com/howardbeck/status/910979744614711298
Title: Re: About the shooting foul rule change
Post by: Roy H. on September 23, 2017, 01:25:33 PM
They'll "crack down" on this just like they did technical fouls and flopping.
Title: Re: About the shooting foul rule change
Post by: jpotter33 on September 23, 2017, 01:27:01 PM
Yes, I love this rule change. While last year it benefitted us with IT, I hated how easily people like IT, Russ, Harden, etc could just barge into traffic, flail their arms, and get a foul call.
Title: Re: About the shooting foul rule change
Post by: playdream on September 23, 2017, 01:35:22 PM
Can you explain further?

Maybe the OP has this in mind (?)

(https://i.gyazo.com/dc93e7fb1a5dfa4258af9cec1d34ecbc.png)

https://twitter.com/howardbeck/status/910979744614711298
Yes
Title: Re: About the shooting foul rule change
Post by: kozlodoev on September 23, 2017, 02:55:26 PM
Yes, I love this rule change. While last year it benefitted us with IT, I hated how easily people like IT, Russ, Harden, etc could just barge into traffic, flail their arms, and get a foul call.
This is not a rule change. You were never supposed to be entitled to a shooting foul when you initiate contact.
Title: Re: About the shooting foul rule change
Post by: greece66 on September 23, 2017, 03:15:23 PM
Yes, I love this rule change. While last year it benefitted us with IT, I hated how easily people like IT, Russ, Harden, etc could just barge into traffic, flail their arms, and get a foul call.
This is not a rule change. You were never supposed to be entitled to a shooting foul when you initiate contact.
Yep, it's an instruction to the refs.

IMO the first one is catering to the fans taste because the Leonard incident got too much attention. The frequency of such fouls did not go up last year - at least, I haven't seen any evidence of this. Not a bad thing if they can reduce these fouls though.

The latter is a different story, and I wonder what took them so long, esp. given that in the NBA you can consult the replay - these plays are often visible only if you use the right camera.
Title: Re: About the shooting foul rule change
Post by: jpotter33 on September 23, 2017, 03:20:29 PM
Yes, I love this rule change. While last year it benefitted us with IT, I hated how easily people like IT, Russ, Harden, etc could just barge into traffic, flail their arms, and get a foul call.
This is not a rule change. You were never supposed to be entitled to a shooting foul when you initiate contact.

Semantics. I was just utilizing the language of the OP.

But regardless I agree. Those types of fouls should've never become so commonplace.
Title: Re: About the shooting foul rule change
Post by: blink on September 23, 2017, 03:20:40 PM
They'll "crack down" on this just like they did technical fouls and flopping.

I agree, as much as I would like the initiated contact fouls to be eliminated I doubt they will.  Too many top players have gotten away with it for too long.  Maybe a month of swallowing the whistles and then back to reality.
Title: Re: About the shooting foul rule change
Post by: Big333223 on September 23, 2017, 05:16:12 PM
It'll be good if they actually stick to this. It's so frustrating to watch someone like Harden, who should be a lot of fun to watch, get rewarded for constant offensive fouls.
Title: Re: About the shooting foul rule change
Post by: Alleyoopster on September 23, 2017, 05:31:42 PM
It'll be good if they actually stick to this. It's so frustrating to watch someone like Harden, who should be a lot of fun to watch, get rewarded for constant offensive fouls.

Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems Harden does get fouled a lot when driving to the basket. He's quicker than the defenders. 
Title: Re: About the shooting foul rule change
Post by: greece66 on September 23, 2017, 05:48:24 PM
It'll be good if they actually stick to this. It's so frustrating to watch someone like Harden, who should be a lot of fun to watch, get rewarded for constant offensive fouls.

Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems Harden does get fouled a lot when driving to the basket. He's quicker than the defenders.

Only the second type of foul they discuss would be an offensive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEkTUVnhGZ0#t=3m30s

Edit: added a gif to be sure we are on the same page.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/BVzspN1f313kk/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: About the shooting foul rule change
Post by: nickagneta on September 23, 2017, 06:17:11 PM
So are they going to call those offensive fouls or just not call a foul? Not sure from that tweet.
Title: Re: About the shooting foul rule change
Post by: greece66 on September 23, 2017, 06:52:16 PM
So are they going to call those offensive fouls or just not call a foul? Not sure from that tweet.

If what is written in the link at the bottom is accurate, the video of coach Nick was spot on.

You have two scenarios:

A. "A player [who] has not gathered the ball before contact occurs" - this will still be a foul but not a shooting foul. This is also the trickier case, the vid explains why.

B. The defender initiates contact (see the gif in my previous post). This is (and has always been) an offensive foul.

Again, the vid by coach Nick is very helpful as he goes through the plays with a veteran ref commenting.

http://uproxx.com/dimemag/nba-zaza-pachulia-kawhi-leonard-james-harden-rule-change-closeouts-2017-18/3/
Title: Re: About the shooting foul rule change
Post by: bopna on September 23, 2017, 06:57:29 PM
Would this mean more reviews mean more extended total game time as it is?
Refs have been doing too many reviews on calls its insane and could lead to up to 3 hrs total game time...wow.
Title: Re: About the shooting foul rule change
Post by: Big333223 on September 23, 2017, 07:22:43 PM
It'll be good if they actually stick to this. It's so frustrating to watch someone like Harden, who should be a lot of fun to watch, get rewarded for constant offensive fouls.

Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems Harden does get fouled a lot when driving to the basket. He's quicker than the defenders.

Only the second type of foul they discuss would be an offensive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEkTUVnhGZ0#t=3m30s

Edit: added a gif to be sure we are on the same page.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/BVzspN1f313kk/giphy.gif)
Yeah, that type of thing.

I'm also thinking about when he's heading in a straight line for the basket and has a defender on his side, he'll throw his body to the side (into the defender's body), off of his path to the basket and then throw the ball up looking for an and-1. To my eye, it's an offensive foul but he gets rewarded for it all the time.

Here's a video of what I'm talking about:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiiTvmn4PVQ
Title: Re: About the shooting foul rule change
Post by: Boston Garden Leprechaun on September 24, 2017, 10:24:10 PM
Yes, I love this rule change. While last year it benefitted us with IT, I hated how easily people like IT, Russ, Harden, etc could just barge into traffic, flail their arms, and get a foul call.
This is not a rule change. You were never supposed to be entitled to a shooting foul when you initiate contact.

well nobody ever told dwayne wade. he has been doing this for years
Title: Re: About the shooting foul rule change
Post by: crimson_stallion on September 24, 2017, 11:32:41 PM
Yes, I love this rule change. While last year it benefitted us with IT, I hated how easily people like IT, Russ, Harden, etc could just barge into traffic, flail their arms, and get a foul call.
This is not a rule change. You were never supposed to be entitled to a shooting foul when you initiate contact.

well nobody ever told dwayne wade. he has been doing this for years

He certainly isn't the only one - just ask Paul Pierce :P
Title: Re: About the shooting foul rule change
Post by: LilRip on September 25, 2017, 03:36:03 AM
I highly doubt the Zaza rule gets enforced much.

I'm looking forward to the Harden rule being enforced. I don't know what the ruling will be but if it's a play-on, I'll be fine with it. It makes it nearly impossible to defend the PnR with guys so easily able to fish for fouls beyond the arc.
Title: Re: About the shooting foul rule change
Post by: johnnygreen on September 25, 2017, 08:27:39 AM
This is great news for Marcus Smart. Now he can just shoot the ball naturally, instead of trying to create contact and acting like he was fouled.
Title: Re: About the shooting foul rule change
Post by: Vermont Green on September 25, 2017, 08:42:56 AM
I am all for this.  Fewer whistles is better for the game.  A defender should be able to defend.  If the shooter leans in to create the contact, it should be an offensive foul or no-call.  This will hopefully get players back to trying to make shots instead of draw fouls.  I love this.
Title: Re: About the shooting foul rule change
Post by: Alleyoopster on September 25, 2017, 09:08:29 AM
Off topic, but don't want to start a new thread.

There also needs to be more accountability for hard fouls...especially when a player is going to the hoop and is pushed from behind or unended somehow. 

It's not enough to have ordinary foul calls, flagrant one or flagrant twos. That's a joke. The NBA should suspend these players for 5 games or more for their intentional barbaric acts.