CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Smartacus on September 19, 2017, 12:33:19 PM
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Kyrie Irving has thrust himself into the center NBA landscape and the people have reacted. What was once an inconsequential guy with a smooth game is now a pariah for the type of thinking that makes people uncomfortable. Between the Flat Earth talk, use of the term "woke", and a general apathy for engaging in the typical sports talk narrative...
https://mobile.twitter.com/roywoodjr/status/909802794193965058
https://twitter.com/roywoodjr/status/909796275830353920 and https://mobile.twitter.com/roywoodjr/status/909803476363956226
... Kyrie has drawn criticism from fans claiming that he comes across as "smug" "arrogant" "thinks he's smarter than he is". (people need to be careful with that one - very problematic phrase)
Something about how Kyrie carries himself makes it seems like he's talking down to everyone else and it make people angry.
Well the way I see it as someone who's also been criticized in the past for having far out views that don't always align with the mainstream, you get a bit sick of being mischaracterized and having your motives ascribed for you. (Not here mind you, this blog has a fairly open mind)
People want to believe he left Cleveland because he hates LeBron or wants to be the man on his own because those are narratives that make sense to us We've seen that narrative before, if a max guy leaves a championship caliber team it's for one of those two reasons.
Kyrie thinks and feels a certain way but one thing to remember is that he's far from alone. Be it Bieber's pastor, his friends, or people on the weird forums he reads Kyrie ascribes to a belief system that separates him from most of the sports world. His motives are deeply layered and probably only make sense to people who think like he does.
When he refuses to engage Max Kellerman when he's getting red in the face trying to make Kyrie admit to locker room resentment he does so not because he thinks he's better or smarter than Max, but that Max can't speak with him on a level where Kyrie could formulate a response that Max would find acceptable.
So I say this. Think of Kyrie like you think of a deeply religious person. He has been indoctrinated into a mindset where it's difficult for him to have conversations with those who don't ascribe to or are even opposed to his world view. Kyrie doesn't resent the detractors he just pays them no mind. We should try to do the same.
I once heard a spiritual guy say "the critics are just crickets chirping away." You don't hate the cricket you just accept them and move on with your life.
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Who cares about all that crap. It's fairly meaningless & irrelevant to on the court play.
I could care less about what the guy says or how awkward he might act in public if it has zero impact on his game.
Haven't understood people getting all worked out about how he talks or some of his life philosophies.
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I can not only accept it, but embrace it if he leads us to banner 18
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Rondo was similar in the some aspects you touched upon, and I grew to love that dude. As long as he adopts that work-ethic and grit that I think Boston fans (myself included) love to see, he'll be alright.
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... Kyrie has drawn criticism from fans claiming that he comes across as "smug" "arrogant" "thinks he's smarter than he is". (people need to be careful with that one - very problematic phrase)
I'm curious what is problematic about the phrase "thinks he's smarter than he is".
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I don't see what's so hard to understand. Kyrie wants to be one of the greatest of all time. He can't do that by being Pippen to Lebron's Jordan, or by being Robin to Batman.
He wanted the chance to lead a franchise and as he put it 'grow'. He's been given that opportunity in Boston. He's got the keys to the car and very good teammates in Hayward and Horford. He has young pups coming up with potential that he could help groom in Tatum, Brown, Smart, Rozier. This is the perfect opportunity for Kyrie to prove that he can take himself and an entire franchise to the next level.
Will he do it? Time will tell. Do I care how he talks or how he thinks if it means more winning? He can take whatever philosophy he likes as long as it ultimately leads to him becoming a better player on the floor and carrying this team to banner 18. Whether you think he sounds smug or too smart for his britches doesn't mean a thing. It's what he does with himself, his actions that really matter.
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Who cares about all that crap. It's fairly meaningless & irrelevant to on the court play.
I could care less about what the guy says or how awkward he might act in public if it has zero impact on his game.
Haven't understood people getting all worked out about how he talks or some of his life philosophies.
It's not getting worked up about it, it's just a fact that he does have a unique, awkward, hyper-abstract, halfway-incoherent way of speaking. It invites parody. As for his philosophies, maybe I would agree with him if I could just understand what those philosophies are.
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Who cares about all that crap. It's fairly meaningless & irrelevant to on the court play.
I could care less about what the guy says or how awkward he might act in public if it has zero impact on his game.
Haven't understood people getting all worked out about how he talks or some of his life philosophies.
This. Just because we have more media doesn't mean that players need to engage more with the media. I would love to hear Larry Bird be asked dumb questions 100,000 times and see what his response would have been.
People are too frickin sensitive with all of this off the court "stuff". This "stuff" doesn't add value to the Celtics- it just satisfies our insatiable desire for drama for 14 sec. until the next tweet.
The sports media has basically become the movie "Mean Girls". Ask loaded questions and then get offended if you don't like the answer. Jeesh.
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It's not getting worked up about it, it's just a fact that he does have a unique, awkward, hyper-abstract, halfway-incoherent way of speaking. It invites parody. As for his philosophies, maybe I would agree with him if I could just understand what those philosophies are.
With all due respect, I don't have to understand the Amish philosophy to enjoy their good handmade craftmanship or fresh dairy products. Bottom line is if the end product is excellent, they can keep on thinking whatever they like, I'll pay good money to get good value.
Same thing for Kyrie. He can join the Tom Cruise cult for all I care, I'll still enjoy watching him if he wins us a lot of basketball games and brings us another banner and I'll still go see the latest Mission Impossible as long as it is entertaining and action packed.
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It's not getting worked up about it, it's just a fact that he does have a unique, awkward, hyper-abstract, halfway-incoherent way of speaking. It invites parody. As for his philosophies, maybe I would agree with him if I could just understand what those philosophies are.
With all due respect, I don't have to understand the Amish philosophy to enjoy their good handmade craftmanship or fresh dairy products. Bottom line is if the end product is excellent, they can keep on thinking whatever they like, I'll pay good money to get good value.
Same thing for Kyrie. He can join the Tom Cruise cult for all I care, I'll still enjoy watching him if he wins us a lot of basketball games and brings us another banner and I'll still go see the latest Mission Impossible as long as it is entertaining and action packed.
I agree, ultimately.
Doesn't mean I have to stop mocking the weirdness of his media statements. Right? We're gonna be dealing with Kyrie's unique brand of wokeness for several years. We're gonna need the comic relief.
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Who cares about all that crap. It's fairly meaningless & irrelevant to on the court play.
I could care less about what the guy says or how awkward he might act in public if it has zero impact on his game.
Haven't understood people getting all worked out about how he talks or some of his life philosophies.
I basically agree. While I worry a small bit about his inevitable paste-eating livestream, if he plays well on the court and doesn't create issues in the locker room, I don't really care about his philosophy all that much.
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I can not only accept it, but embrace it if he leads us to banner 18
Pretty much this. Fans have a way of twisting anything as they please depending on how a guy performs. So if he's great on the court, fans will find a way to love him no matter what.
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(https://i.imgflip.com/1w5dwa.jpg)
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I actually like that he's a weirdo. I hope he gets weirder.
It's been too long since we had a guy who gave totally off the wall interviews. I've missed that since KG got traded.
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He sounds like a lesser personality that Isaiah Thomas; let's hope he's a proportionately greater player.
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As long as his not hitting women or doing other illegal stuff then I could care less about this. Put the ball in the basket.
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I actually like that he's a weirdo. I hope he gets weirder.
TP to this.
But even if Kyrie is a little out-there, I think more than anything he's a guy who just isn't comfortable in front of a camera talking to media people.
I've gone back and listened to some of Richard Jefferson and Channing Frye's podcast and Kyrie appears a bunch. The two episodes with him I've listened to, Kyrie is laid back, charming, and thoughtful. He's not stiff and and misusing ten cent words like he was on First Take or during his initial Celtic press conference.
Look, also, at the exchange he had with Brian Scalabrine right before an interview (where he asks if its ok to call Scal White Mamba). Kyrie seems cool to me. And after that, Scal has him in a comfortable place so when the camera starts rolling, Kyrie can sit and have a conversation and I think he came off well. But when he's having to stare down the barrel of a camera and talk to reporters, he looks really uncomfortable and tries too hard to be "professional" or something.
To me, that's a big piece of the puzzle when asking "Why would Kyrie leave a good situation?" I think the drama and media attention (both sports and entertainment) that Lebron James brings made him uncomfortable and he didn't want to deal with the circus anymore.
Boston will have its own media circus for Kyrie to deal with but it'll be local, not international.
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What does woke actually mean? I only heard it used with respect to awareness of social issues.
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What does woke actually mean? I only heard it used with respect to awareness of social issues.
That is what it means, being aware of social issues. Though admittedly, I had to google it.
I could care less about Kyries wokeness as long as he plays well for our team.
I think Wokeness depends on your perspective. I judge people individually, which many Social Justice Warriors do not. So it is not for me, for some I imagine, it fills a void in their life.
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Dude thinks the earth is flat (might be trolling, but I can't tell) and recently stated that he doesn't have an ego. The guy is open to new ideas and has an interest in science and philosophy (Ie; uses internet) but he talks out of his ass as much as any other athlete. Everyone has an ego (I think he may have just misused the term, though). Kyrie is just a 25 year old, intelligent, hard working but pampered athlete. He's interesting and honest, but that doesn't mean he's correct about anything. I like him though- I'll be looking forward to every interview.
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I actually like that he's a weirdo. I hope he gets weirder.
It's been too long since we had a guy who gave totally off the wall interviews. I've missed that since KG got traded.
I actually think he's a robot. The more I listen to him talk the more he says a lot of words without actually answering the question. Basically a politician. I bet he is a completely different person around people he actually trusts.
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I think a lot of it is that he's just playing public, namely the media, much like Rondo did.
I think a lot of it is calculated and not necessarily off the cuff. He knows what he's doing (I think).
My two cents.
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Dude thinks the earth is flat ...
I'm not sure. He seems too intelligent to actually believe it.
In any case, I really don't care about the other stuff. Let's see him on the court with the Celtics first.
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When is preseason season starting again. :-X
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Dude thinks the earth is flat ...
I'm not sure. He seems too intelligent to actually believe it.
In any case, I really don't care about the other stuff. Let's see him on the court with the Celtics first.
His media statements may be incoherent, but there's no way he actually believes the earth is flat. He was just trying to make some sort of deep statement. Incoherently.
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Most of his perceived 'weirdness' stems from the fact that he takes extra time before he speaks. It' just his composure during interviews. I don't think he's uncomfortable at all. I think he's totally confident in his intellect and ability to respond to whatever someone might ask.
He also kind of sounds like therapist (psychology) when he talks. very soothing and calm, Which throws people off and does sound a little artificial when you hear it. But he can talk however he wants.
He's just willing to be the smartest person in the room if no one else is going to say anything smart.
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I actually like that he's a weirdo. I hope he gets weirder.
It's been too long since we had a guy who gave totally off the wall interviews. I've missed that since KG got traded.
This is how I see it. I want more weird
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I just listened to episode 7 of the Road Trippin' podcast, which is Richard Jefferson and Channing Frye's podcast. I think this is where all the flat-Earth stuff started.
And I gotta say... I don't think he was trolling. He seems to be legitimately think that the Earth is flat. He also seems to be convinced of some kind of conspiracy theory about Neil Armstrong never having actually walked on the moon and that there's a lot of shady business surrounding the JFK assassination.
So he's a conspiracy theory guy. He doesn't trust a lot of the information a lot of us assume is correct because we're told by some authority.
He also comes off to me as someone who generally cares about people, fwiw.
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I just listened to episode 7 of the Road Trippin' podcast, which is Richard Jefferson and Channing Frye's podcast. I think this is where all the flat-Earth stuff started.
And I gotta say... I don't think he was trolling. He seems to be legitimately think that the Earth is flat. He also seems to be convinced of some kind of conspiracy theory about Neil Armstrong never having actually walked on the moon and that there's a lot of shady business surrounding the JFK assassination.
So he's a conspiracy theory guy. He doesn't trust a lot of the information a lot of us assume is correct because we're told by some authority.
He also comes off to me as someone who generally cares about people, fwiw.
I watched that video too, and I got to say...
He's an masterful troller.
When Irving popped up on The Road Trippin’ podcast with Richard Jefferson and Channing Frye during the All-Star break, he broke social media with his belief of a flat Earth versus a round one. His stance went viral in a matter of moments, giving the 25-year-old more off-court attention than he’d gotten in the past.
It sounds like that was the whole point.
https://twitter.com/ArashMarkazi/status/832770937078571008/video/1
Joe Vardon ✔ @joevardon
It drove Kyrie nuts that we didn't care what he had to say about politics, racial and social issues. Only LeBron
Joe Vardon ✔ @joevardon
That's why the whole 'flat Earth' thing happened. Kyrie said something dumb on a podcast, and suddenly everyone cared
Kyrie Irving's issue has always been the shadow of LBJ. Lebron eclipsed over everything Kyrie Irving did. Hell, even an reporter asked a numbingly dumb question, "how does Lebron fit the role of parental guidance, or being a father figure?"
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I actually like that he's a weirdo. I hope he gets weirder.
It's been too long since we had a guy who gave totally off the wall interviews. I've missed that since KG got traded.
Yeah as long as it doesn't affect his play it's kinda neat to have the Jaden Smith of point guards. Definitely better than boring boilerplate answers for everything. Kinda like Rondo except the deadpan sarcasm sometimes isn't sarcasm.
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I just listened to episode 7 of the Road Trippin' podcast, which is Richard Jefferson and Channing Frye's podcast. I think this is where all the flat-Earth stuff started.
And I gotta say... I don't think he was trolling. He seems to be legitimately think that the Earth is flat. He also seems to be convinced of some kind of conspiracy theory about Neil Armstrong never having actually walked on the moon and that there's a lot of shady business surrounding the JFK assassination.
So he's a conspiracy theory guy. He doesn't trust a lot of the information a lot of us assume is correct because we're told by some authority.
He also comes off to me as someone who generally cares about people, fwiw.
I gotta listen to that.
(Listened to it)
He talks to people with a therapist vibe maybe because he probably has a psychotherapist. He believes in aliens, and he really does believe the earth is flat. He has had Matrix moments where everything is a facade. Believing in far-out stuff like that, true or not, has the power to drive someone nutty, and it appeals to the already nutty. Now I get why he repeats "reality" and "reality-based", he has to remind himself, center himself, because someone else he talks to is guiding him to remind himself and not sound like a nutjob. We've got ourselves not just a rambler, but a genuine headcase! I say that with respect. I love it. It makes him interesting. He could still average 30 pts and win us a championship, anyway, so it doesn't ultimately matter.
Edit: He says his dad was like a mini Joe Jackson, so his emphasis on perfecting his craft is not just lip service. He must have an unquenchable thirst to be a perfect player. Hopefully Stevens can channel that drive into defense a little.
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I just listened to episode 7 of the Road Trippin' podcast, which is Richard Jefferson and Channing Frye's podcast. I think this is where all the flat-Earth stuff started.
And I gotta say... I don't think he was trolling. He seems to be legitimately think that the Earth is flat. He also seems to be convinced of some kind of conspiracy theory about Neil Armstrong never having actually walked on the moon and that there's a lot of shady business surrounding the JFK assassination.
So he's a conspiracy theory guy. He doesn't trust a lot of the information a lot of us assume is correct because we're told by some authority.
He also comes off to me as someone who generally cares about people, fwiw.
I watched that video too, and I got to say...
He's an masterful troller.
When Irving popped up on The Road Trippin’ podcast with Richard Jefferson and Channing Frye during the All-Star break, he broke social media with his belief of a flat Earth versus a round one. His stance went viral in a matter of moments, giving the 25-year-old more off-court attention than he’d gotten in the past.
It sounds like that was the whole point.
https://twitter.com/ArashMarkazi/status/832770937078571008/video/1
Joe Vardon ✔ @joevardon
It drove Kyrie nuts that we didn't care what he had to say about politics, racial and social issues. Only LeBron
Joe Vardon ✔ @joevardon
That's why the whole 'flat Earth' thing happened. Kyrie said something dumb on a podcast, and suddenly everyone cared
Kyrie Irving's issue has always been the shadow of LBJ. Lebron eclipsed over everything Kyrie Irving did. Hell, even an reporter asked a numbingly dumb question, "how does Lebron fit the role of parental guidance, or being a father figure?"
So to summarize your entire post, you believe that he wasn't serious but instead that he's so insecure and immature he has to say stupid things to get attention. My kids did that...when they were 3 and 4 years old. Either way, it's exactly an ideal situation for the face of a franchise.
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I watched that video too, and I got to say...
He's an masterful troller.
He's not trolling. He's completely serious.
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I just listened to episode 7 of the Road Trippin' podcast, which is Richard Jefferson and Channing Frye's podcast. I think this is where all the flat-Earth stuff started.
And I gotta say... I don't think he was trolling. He seems to be legitimately think that the Earth is flat. He also seems to be convinced of some kind of conspiracy theory about Neil Armstrong never having actually walked on the moon and that there's a lot of shady business surrounding the JFK assassination.
So he's a conspiracy theory guy. He doesn't trust a lot of the information a lot of us assume is correct because we're told by some authority.
He also comes off to me as someone who generally cares about people, fwiw.
I watched that video too, and I got to say...
He's an masterful troller.
When Irving popped up on The Road Trippin’ podcast with Richard Jefferson and Channing Frye during the All-Star break, he broke social media with his belief of a flat Earth versus a round one. His stance went viral in a matter of moments, giving the 25-year-old more off-court attention than he’d gotten in the past.
It sounds like that was the whole point.
https://twitter.com/ArashMarkazi/status/832770937078571008/video/1
Joe Vardon ✔ @joevardon
It drove Kyrie nuts that we didn't care what he had to say about politics, racial and social issues. Only LeBron
Joe Vardon ✔ @joevardon
That's why the whole 'flat Earth' thing happened. Kyrie said something dumb on a podcast, and suddenly everyone cared
Kyrie Irving's issue has always been the shadow of LBJ. Lebron eclipsed over everything Kyrie Irving did. Hell, even an reporter asked a numbingly dumb question, "how does Lebron fit the role of parental guidance, or being a father figure?"
So to summarize your entire post, you believe that he wasn't serious but instead that he's so insecure and immature he has to say stupid things to get attention. My kids did that...when they were 3 and 4 years old. Either way, it's exactly an ideal situation for the face of a franchise.
Whoa whoa whoa, let's not get it twisted. Kyrie is a nice player, but Jayson Tatum is the face of this franchise moving forward (hopefully Kyrie doesn't demand a trade).
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I watched that video too, and I got to say...
He's an masterful troller.
He's not trolling. He's completely serious.
He does seem to be.
Here's a clip of Jaylen Brown talking about getting the opportunity to spend some time and talk to Kyrie. He jokes the flat Earth thing. Man, would I love to listen to a conversation between those two.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7TFzVX0lLw
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Only a fool would think Kyrie actually believes the earth is flat. Holy Lord are some people gullible.
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Also, people who use the term "woke" sound dumb.
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Only a fool would think Kyrie actually believes the earth is flat. Holy Lord are some people gullible.
Have you actually listened to him talk about it?
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Only a fool would think Kyrie actually believes the earth is flat. Holy Lord are some people gullible.
Have you actually listened to him talk about it?
There is video where he tells the media he was joking.
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Only a fool would think Kyrie actually believes the earth is flat. Holy Lord are some people gullible.
He doesn't believe in the moon landing, either. But he does believe in aliens. He would call you gullible for believing everything put in front of you. He is a bona fide tinfoil hat wearing dude. That's who Kyrie Irving is. It's glorious. The next several years are going to be super interesting.
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Only a fool would think Kyrie actually believes the earth is flat. Holy Lord are some people gullible.
Have you actually listened to him talk about it?
There is video where he tells the media he was joking.
If you listen to the Road Trippin podcast, it's clear he's not joking.
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I actually like that he's a weirdo. I hope he gets weirder.
It's been too long since we had a guy who gave totally off the wall interviews. I've missed that since KG got traded.
Give me KG's weirdness over this any day lol
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Only a fool would think Kyrie actually believes the earth is flat. Holy Lord are some people gullible.
Have you actually listened to him talk about it?
There is video where he tells the media he was joking.
If you listen to the Road Trippin podcast, it's clear he's not joking.
I'm not sure why people obsess over trolling statements. Kyrie acknowledged that he has been asked a lot about this one issue. It's effectively click bait.
In 2017, any news is good news. Look at Kap- more people are talking about him than Josh McCown, and the latter is a starting QB in the NFL.
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Only a fool would think Kyrie actually believes the earth is flat. Holy Lord are some people gullible.
Have you actually listened to him talk about it?
There is video where he tells the media he was joking.
Link?
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Only a fool would think Kyrie actually believes the earth is flat. Holy Lord are some people gullible.
Have you actually listened to him talk about it?
There is video where he tells the media he was joking.
If you listen to the Road Trippin podcast, it's clear he's not joking.
I'm not sure why people obsess over trolling statements. Kyrie acknowledged that he has been asked a lot about this one issue. It's effectively click bait.
In 2017, any news is good news. Look at Kap- more people are talking about him than Josh McCown, and the latter is a starting QB in the NFL.
What separates the Road Trippin podcast is that he was just shooting the **** with teammates and letting his guard down. He wasn't trolling his teammates. If anything, they were egging him on to be his real, odd-opinion-having self. And he bit. He is speaking for real about his real stances. He has a bizarre set of stances.
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Kyrie is 25 years old and likes the idea of being "more than a basketball player". Outside his bubble, his brand of intellectualism rubs some people as a bit immature. I think that's about all there is to it. Never forget that some of these guys are still fresh out of college with big egos & still sort of discovering the real world. He's probably a bright guy, who also is pretty disconnected from everyday reality... like most young NBA players.
The difference is most precocious 25 year-olds don't have a platform. I bet he matures a bit in Boston under Ainge/ Stevens and with teammates like Brown/Hayward.
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Only a fool would think Kyrie actually believes the earth is flat. Holy Lord are some people gullible.
Have you actually listened to him talk about it?
There is video where he tells the media he was joking.
If you listen to the Road Trippin podcast, it's clear he's not joking.
It was clear he was joking on the podcast. He was the point that we should seek out information for ourselves.
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Only a fool would think Kyrie actually believes the earth is flat. Holy Lord are some people gullible.
Have you actually listened to him talk about it?
There is video where he tells the media he was joking.
If you listen to the Road Trippin podcast, it's clear he's not joking.
It was clear he was joking on the podcast. He was the point that we should seek out information for ourselves.
I'm with Donoghus on this one, and I don't think the personal beliefs of a bball player matter, but since the question was raised, talking in a half-joking, ironic way is what many believers in conspiracies do.
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Only a fool would think Kyrie actually believes the earth is flat. Holy Lord are some people gullible.
Have you actually listened to him talk about it?
There is video where he tells the media he was joking.
Link?
I'd also be interested in a link to this video, because I haven't found it.
If he was just trolling on the podcast, it was pretty elaborate because the statements about conspiracy theories are all kind of wrapped up in his worldview and his teammates act like they've heard this from him before.
It could all be a joke but if it is, he got me good.
EDIT: I'm making my way through Road Trippin (not all the episodes just ones that interest me) and I just listened to episode 14, the first one with Kyrie after the flat-Earther business hit.
They all spend the first part of the podcast defending free thinking. They don't really weigh in on any of the specific theories but it was a defense for thinking outside the mainstream and sounded like he either believes in these theories or, at the very least, is advocating against what we think of as common knowledge.
Anyway, it hits my ears like Kyrie really believes this stuff and thinks everyone's opinion should be respected.