CelticsStrong
Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: Phantom255x on September 10, 2017, 12:53:04 PM
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I'm sure we're all excited about the upcoming season, and also curious how to see this relatively 'new' group will do (both regular season and playoffs).
But with another season, comes another year of trade rumors and hoping Ainge trades for a superstar (What? you weren't satisfied with the monumental Irving trade he made? You want another one? :P)
It seems pretty obvious the ideal targets are Anthony Davis or Kristaps Porzingis, which fills a huge need at the PF/C positions, and also could be the 'Kevin Garnett' piece this core needs to legitimately contend in a few years (hopefully post-Warriors dominance). Obviously both are long shots for certain reasons, but both are also on teams likely to do bad the coming year (at least Knicks are; Pelicans a bit of a wildcard) and both could become real frustrated and maybe in an ideal world, pull a Kyrie and demand out.
So lets say a deal is in place next summer (with Lakers Pick officially conveying somewhere 2-5 and in the package), but basically the only hold up is whether you trade Brown OR Tatum in the package (which could be a good thing as we get to at least keep 1 of the 2). Who do you deal?
And please don't say, "no one, find another way in the trade", because honestly, if Ainge can find a way to pull off this deal without including any of the 2, then we might as well hand him Executive Of The Year for the next 10 years. :P :laugh:
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I think Tatum will be a better career than Brown
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I think Tatum will have a better career than Brown
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Jaylen Brown.
Love Jaylen, but also love Tatum, and while I can see Jaylen possibly becoming Jimmy Butler 2.0 (great 2-way all-star caliber player in the future), I think Tatum is just a VERY GIFTED scorer who can also improve his defense (and has already generated comparisons to the like of Paul Pierce. Yum!).
And I know it was just Summer League, but seeing Tatum close out those close games with clutch buckets and his play making (and w/ice in his veins) put me in heaven.
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I didn't see a box to pick rozier?
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I didn't see a box to pick rozier?
Because unlike all the others, Rozier is the true untouchable.
(https://i.imgflip.com/1vmcy4.jpg)
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I didn't see a box to pick rozier?
Because unlike all the others, Rozier is the true untouchable.
(https://i.imgflip.com/1vmcy4.jpg)
(https://media.tenor.com/images/2183390c33417d017eaed6a53d80fb64/tenor.gif)
Jokes aside though, I think Rozier will have a bigger role next season, even if it's off the bench. Hopefully he improves his 3 pt. shooting a bit too and becomes a more consistent ball-handler (he's explosive but also tends to be erratic at times).
And with our atrocious rebounding, Rozier is probably going to lead our guards in rebounding :P
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The reality is for someone like Davis it would probably take both. But I'd rather trade Tatum. I think Jaylen has the chance to be a better two way player, and on a team with Davis, Irving and Hayward his versatility and defensive potential would be more valuable than Tatum's scoring.
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Either. Both.
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Either. Both.
Both? For KP? Wow.
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Either. Both.
Davis, maybe.
But LAL Pick, Tatum, Brown + more for Porzingis? HUH?? ???
Giving up both kind of guts our team honestly (since some more salary filler would probably have to go in a hypothetical Davis deal).
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None. Call me a homer but both of them will have a better career (not player, keep that in mind) than KP and AD.
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The reality is for someone like Davis it would probably take both. But I'd rather trade Tatum. I think Jaylen has the chance to be a better two way player, and on a team with Davis, Irving and Hayward his versatility and defensive potential would be more valuable than Tatum's scoring.
Definitely an interesting take.
But if Tatum becomes Paul Pierce 2.0 (ideally) with the defense AND scoring.. oh man.. :angel:
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No way either team does it right now without Tatum, although maybe that changes this season. LA pick conferring in 2018 + Jaylen putting up numbers might get us KP, but I'd almost rather have Doncic.
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Brown, easily.
NO gets: Jaylen Brown, Al Horford, Lakers Pick
BOS gets: Anthony Davis, Omer Asik
If I am the Pelicans GM then Brown, Horford and the Laker's pick isn't quite enough to pry a stud like Anthony Davis from my clutches. But if Boston also agrees to take Asik's 'dead weight' contract off my hands in the process, then that might be the extra little push that convinces me.
If I'm Boston then I am already over the cap as it is, and this trade is already leaving my roster set up for the next 17-10 years (Kyrie, Hayward, Davis, Smart, Morris, Rozier, Tatum, Yabusele) so I'm really that concerned about taking on an albatross contract. I also could use a serviceable 3rd string veteran big who can defend/rebound. So I'm happy enough to take Asik's contact if it means getting that third star in Anthony Davis.
Still unlikely the Pelican's do this...but if they then I wouldn't hesitate. We could then re-sign Green, allowing us to start Irving, Smart, Hayward, Morris and Davis with Rozier, Green, Tatum, Yabusele, Baynes as our second unit. Very strong young core.
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whichever one is worth more to the other team such that Boston could maybe keep back a lesser draft pick or asset.
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Tatum looked better in the summer league but that is not a whole lot to go on. If I was forced to choose based on what I know right now, I would keep Tatum and trade Brown. I think both are premier prospects though.
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We are talking two very different trades IMO. I would trade either or both for Davis. He's a top player in the league. I'm not totally sold on KP. Personally I'm not sold on him. I think he's very good, but not in Davis' league. Not so sure I'd trade either for him. Maybe, but would depend on what else is included.
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For Kristaps, we trade Tatum. Jaylen's toughness and defensive intensity would be much more valuable to our team in a trade for KP.
For AD you trade either. I'd still prefer keep Jaylen, but AD brings so much intensity and toughness on D that the need to keep Jaylen is lessened, IMO.
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I'd rather trade Jaylen, the only complexity is both of these targets are big guys and whichever one we acquire and Hayward would block Tatum's minutes and development at either forward spot. Jaylen can play 2 so there would still be minutes and even a starter's role for him.
But honestly, and this may be huge homerism, I'm not sure I'd trade Tatum for KP without seeing what he can do this year. I would definitely trade Jaylen for him, and I like Jaylen.
For Davis, I would happily trade either plus a top pick, but would hope to avoid trading all 3 of Tatum, Brown and and LA/SAC pick unless we could bring Davis in by midseason this year.
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Brown, easily.
NO gets: Jaylen Brown, Al Horford, Lakers Pick
BOS gets: Anthony Davis, Omer Asik
If I am the Pelicans GM then Brown, Horford and the Laker's pick isn't quite enough to pry a stud like Anthony Davis from my clutches. But if Boston also agrees to take Asik's 'dead weight' contract off my hands in the process, then that might be the extra little push that convinces me.
If I'm Boston then I am already over the cap as it is, and this trade is already leaving my roster set up for the next 17-10 years (Kyrie, Hayward, Davis, Smart, Morris, Rozier, Tatum, Yabusele) so I'm really that concerned about taking on an albatross contract. I also could use a serviceable 3rd string veteran big who can defend/rebound. So I'm happy enough to take Asik's contact if it means getting that third star in Anthony Davis.
Still unlikely the Pelican's do this...but if they then I wouldn't hesitate. We could then re-sign Green, allowing us to start Irving, Smart, Hayward, Morris and Davis with Rozier, Green, Tatum, Yabusele, Baynes as our second unit. Very strong young core.
I don't know how I feel (or Ainge) about trading the first marquee FA signing in franchise history within 2 years. That paints a bad picture to future FA's about Boston.
Nonetheless, it's not a bad idea and I think C's would be more than happy to throw in maybe a future 1st rounder as a sweetener. Either that or take back Asik's contract too. Still think you may need to give up a little more (like the extra 1st rounder) to make it happen since a team like LAL could easily give up Ingram, another player and probably a 2019 pick, or dare I say, Lonzo + Ingram + future pick LOL.
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Can I wait until the mid season trade deadline to see Tatum in the NBA first? lol it's not like Davis is on the table right now.
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I think Brown is going to turn into a gem. I love Tatum's game but Brown has the two-way and athleticism game that is hard to come by.
Irving/Brown/Hayward/Davis/Horford is a stellar starting five.
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I would trade both for Davis. I love those kids but Davis with what we have already is a championship team.
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Can I wait until the mid season trade deadline to see Tatum in the NBA first? lol it's not like Davis is on the table right now.
Neither is Tatum ;)
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For Davis it would take both and for KP I wouldn't include either.
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For Davis it would take both and for KP I wouldn't include either.
Going to have to give up at least one for KP. Otherwise another team can get him fairly easily. (LAL Pick + Filler alone isn't getting it done especially if a team like PHO offers something like Jackson + Future 1st, or LAL offers Ingram and 2019 1st OR another young player)
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I would trade both for Davis. I love those kids but Davis with what we have already is a championship team.
I just think LAL pick + Those 2 + Filler (Salary and Future Picks) is way too much.
Obviously a trade for AD will be expensive but a 2018 Top-5 pick in a LOADED draft + 2016 and 2017 #3 picks along with more? Dang...
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Well, Tatum's a better prospect than Brown, and it's not particularly close, so Brown. However, we're not getting AD without including both of them, which I'd be okay with doing.
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I prefer Tatum slightly over Brown b/c of shooting.
I would any/all of the young players/picks for AD, besides Kyrie and Gordo.
AD, Kyrie, and Hayward are legit top 3 players on a contending team. I have confidence that Danny can piece together a good team around star players.
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Hmm, totally different trades.
Davis is clearly at a significantly higher level, but he makes big money now, meaning that someone with a big contract has to go too. It will also take a monster haul to get him. He's been amazing, but he hasn't carried a team very far and we don't know if he has championship level competitiveness.
Porzingas still is on his rookie deal and his contract doesn't end until Horford's does, so none of our big contracts has to go. He will command a lot of assets too, but probably not what Davis will. I think our championship chances are better having Horford too, so I'd prefer a cheaper deal for Porzingas.
Porzingas is 22 and Davis is 24. Either way, while Tatum and Brown are great prospects, the C's would easily give them both up for either player.
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Hmm, totally different trades.
Davis is clearly at a significantly higher level, but he makes big money now, meaning that someone with a big contract has to go too. It will also take a monster haul to get him. He's been amazing, but he hasn't carried a team very far and we don't know if he has championship level competitiveness.
Porzingas still is on his rookie deal and his contract doesn't end until Horford's does, so none of our big contracts has to go. He will command a lot of assets too, but probably not what Davis will. I think our championship chances are better having Horford too, so I'd prefer a cheaper deal for Porzingas.
Porzingas is 22 and Davis is 24. Either way, while Tatum and Brown are great prospects, the C's would easily give them both up for either player.
Yeah I agree with you on the 2nd paragraph. Porzingis is the wiser option simply because his contract is cheaper (no big contract has to go), the Knicks are a BIGGER dumpster fire than Pelicans, and frankly it's true that for as transcendental as Davis is, he hasn't led his team that far in recent years.
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Id trade my mother before Tatum.
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Either. Both.
Both for AD. Both for KP with hopefully something coming back.
Upside:
AD=KG
Zinger=Dirk
Brown=Butler
Tatum=Pierce
I think AD and Zinger are clearly closer to their potential, but they have more experience. Brown and Tatum should get serious time this year, so if I'm Danny, I'd like to see what I have before making a trade.
That being said, if NO is calling BOS, you pick up the phone 10/10 times.
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Id trade my mother before Tatum.
Hell I'd add you in as a "throw in" to that deal to make it happen before including Tatum :P
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Id trade my mother before Tatum.
Hell I'd add you in as a "throw in" to that deal to make it happen before including Tatum :P
FYI....I'm untouchable
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Id trade my mother before Tatum.
Hell I'd add you in as a "throw in" to that deal to make it happen before including Tatum :P
FYI....I'm untouchable
Do you have a No Trade Clause?
No?
(http://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/goodbye-gif-1.gif)
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Maybe it's just me, but if Lakers Pick conveys anywhere from 2-5 then I think I'd rather keep that instead of trading for Porzingis.
Now if it's for Anthony Davis you make the deal. But idk.. just don't think Porzingis is worth a Top-5 pick in a big man-loaded draft, one of Tatum/Brown, and MORE.
Great player but I don't see transcendental talent in Porzingis like I see in AD.
Again, maybe it's just me.
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Seeing the preseason games, it's becoming a really hard decision :P
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Seeing the preseason games, it's becoming a really hard decision :P
I'm leaning more than ever toward Neither, For Now. Let's just wait and see what they can demonstrate this year before we sacrifice either.
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Seeing the preseason games, it's becoming a really hard decision :P
I'm leaning more than ever toward Neither, For Now. Let's just wait and see what they can demonstrate this year before we sacrifice either.
Put me in the neither category too. We just jettisoned all but 4 players from last year. We have 3 guys who are max or close to max players, 2 of which we signed as free agents. We would have to include Horford which is really bad karma.
We have 3 great young players on either rookie deals or cheap this year. Lets see what we have in Brown and Tatum for at least a full year before wipe out our roster again for a player that hasn't even made the playoffs yet.
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I'm more willing to trade Brown at this point. Only b/c scoring is a premium skill, and Tatum has that special ability to take over a game with the ball in his hand.
At the same time, a thunder dunk from Brown can (and will) change the momentum of many games.
I think Tatum will be a slightly better pro.
I would trade them both straight up for Anthony Davis.
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I am invested in both. Lakers pick will deliver a new big man next year. That and TRob after Russia!
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Tatum but not for an obvious reason. So all cards on the table, I believe Tatum will have the better traditional career than Brown. But when I consider the 2 different lineups for the Celtics, I like one side more. If you trade Brown, your perfect lineup in the next few years is Irving/Hayward/Tatum/Davis/Horford.
If you trade Tatum, your best 5 man lineup is Irving/Brown/Hayward/Davis/Horford. That is a better team. Granted your offense is a little worse, but your defense is alot better.
It's all irrelevant because I don't see any way we get Davis without both.
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No deal.
If that Lakers pick conveys you grab a top 5 pick center and roll with who you already have. If it doesn't you need another premium asset and it isn't worth it to make a Porzingis trade. AD makes too much to trade for without either trading Al Horford or gutting the team, and even then the Pelicans say no. They demand Kyrie for Davis because we have him.
Those guys are great big men, but the reality is that we aren't getting either of them as we no longer have the pick stash we did 2 years ago and they are both still young enough to rebuild around.
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Pelicans would be stupid not to demand both and rightfully so.
Irving/Hayward/Davis is a championship core and Danny would flip tatum and brown for davis in a heartbeat.
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Pelicans would be stupid not to demand both and rightfully so.
Irving/Hayward/Davis is a championship core and Danny would flip tatum and brown for davis in a heartbeat.
Do you not think that Danny would try to keep one? I honestly think if he can flip every asset except Brown for Davis, that would be his goal.
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Who ever eventually lands him is gonna need help from Davis himself . Davis needs to want out , otherwise unless he is tragically injuried , they will not trade him till he is 35 or older.
There need to be decent from with in or Davis is just tried of losing .
Its gonna take some pretty nice assets .
Im sure Spurs and Mavs ate angling
He would be the Tim Duncan wet dream for Pops.
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Pelicans would be stupid not to demand both and rightfully so.
Irving/Hayward/Davis is a championship core and Danny would flip tatum and brown for davis in a heartbeat.
Do you not think that Danny would try to keep one? I honestly think if he can flip every asset except Brown for Davis, that would be his goal.
Have to be careful, because you don't want to gut your bench in the process of acquiring Davis, otherwise we become the Pelicans of sorts with a pretty nice starting group, but an atrocious bench/depth.
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Feel like an idiot for making this thread.
Who needs AD if Tatum and Brown keep playing like this! :P
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Feel like an idiot for making this thread.
Who needs AD if Tatum and Brown keep playing like this! :P
may need to change part of the title. instead of (Tatum or Brown) you may need to say (Kyrie or Gordon) ;)
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Feel like an idiot for making this thread.
Who needs AD if Tatum and Brown keep playing like this! :P
may need to change part of the title. instead of (Tatum or Brown) you may need to say (Kyrie or Gordon) ;)
LOL TP. :laugh:
But the Pelicans obviously wouldn't want an injured Hayward.