CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Dino Pitino on September 03, 2017, 11:49:27 AM
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Imagine that the trades were...
Kyrie
for
Fultz
Tatum + Lakers/Kings pick
for
Isaiah, Crowder, Zizic + the Nets pick
...would you feel better about each trade?
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Those look one sided. One for C's and one total against
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Those look one sided. One for C's and one total against
To me the Lakers pick and Nets pick are a wash. So the second trade comes down to Tatum for Isaiah (one year, bad hip) + Crowder + Zizic, which I do 100 out of 100 times.
The Kyrie for Fultz trade is even more of a no-brainer for us, since Kyrie is already what Fultz's potential ceiling is.
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Kyrie for Fultz doesn't work salary wise. Even if it did, I doubt that CLE does it because they get no immediate help from a vet, which they (James) wanted.
The Sixers would absolutely scoff at trading Tatum for Thomas and Crowder.
I think this points out that the trade with Sixers has a good chance of being judged as a great trade for the Celtics, particularly if Tatum and Fultz have similar careers, and the added pick brings value. The Kyrie trade was more of a balanced trade between the two teams.
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The first is a slam dunk and the 2nd is a wash at absolute best. One way to look at it a little is the 2nd trade opens up a roster spot. So it's really more like Tatum and ...TRob?...for all that. Maybe makes it slightly better
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Those look one sided. One for C's and one total against
To me the Lakers pick and Nets pick are a wash. So the second trade comes down to Tatum for Isaiah (one year, bad hip) + Crowder + Zizic, which I do 100 out of 100 times.
The Kyrie for Fultz trade is even more of a no-brainer for us, since Kyrie is already what Fultz's potential ceiling is.
The Irving trade is great the last one is an overpay for Tatum. Two medical staffs say the hip should be okay after rehab and can be managed so IT and Crowder is more than enough for Tatum. Then you lose a non protected pick for a protected one.
It all doesn't matter though as they weren't the trades.
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Those look one sided. One for C's and one total against
To me the Lakers pick and Nets pick are a wash. So the second trade comes down to Tatum for Isaiah (one year, bad hip) + Crowder + Zizic, which I do 100 out of 100 times.
The Kyrie for Fultz trade is even more of a no-brainer for us, since Kyrie is already what Fultz's potential ceiling is.
The Irving trade is great the last one is an overpay for Tatum. Two medical staffs say the hip should be okay after rehab and can be managed so IT and Crowder is more than enough for Tatum. Then you lose a non protected pick for a protected one.
It all doesn't matter though as they weren't the trades.
Overpay for Tatum? I agree with footey that the team with Tatum would scoff at the deal.
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Brown has to fully replace AB.
Morris has to fully replace KO.
Baynes has to fully replace Amir.
Tatum has to fully replace Jerebko.
Hayward has to fully replace Crowder.
Irving has to fully replace IT.
Somebody has to replace Brown, who is replacing AB.
Somebody has to replace Zeller as our 3rd big.
Laker pick has to replace the BKN pick.
That's a lot of contingencies just to get back to last year's team.
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Brown has to fully replace AB. LET'S SEE.
Morris has to fully replace KO. KELLY PLAYED 1 GOOD GAME AND 4 MEDIOCRE ONES. EASY.
Baynes has to fully replace Amir. AMIR WAS COOKED, EASY.
Tatum has to fully replace Jerebko. MORE THAN EASY.
Hayward has to fully replace Crowder. LOL.
Irving has to fully replace IT. MUCH BETTER.
Somebody has to replace Brown, who is replacing AB. HIMSELF, PLAYING MORE MINUTES.
Somebody has to replace Zeller as our 3rd big. ANYBODY CAN DO THAT. EVEN ME IN A LADDER.
Laker pick has to replace the BKN pick. LET'S SEE.
That's a lot of contingencies just to get back to last year's team.
You have forgotten some basic things. For example, young players develop year after year. Jaylen Brown will be much better, Rozier and Smart will be better, we have Tatum, etc.
Also, Kyrie and Hayward are two legit all-stars. We didn't have that last year.
Some posters always look the glass half empty. That's tiring...
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And don't forget that Irving is replacing IT with a potential bum hip. Celtics don't even offer this trade if IT4 is healthy, which he's not or Cleveland would Ta ask for additional compensation.
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And don't forget that Irving is replacing IT with a potential bum hip. Celtics don't even offer this trade if IT4 is healthy, which he's not or Cleveland would Ta ask for additional compensation.
Yeah, I mean 25 y/o, healthy Kyrie is replacing 28 y/o, injured (for at least part of the year), shorter IT on an expiring contract. I agree that if you just take like the last two seasons and compare them, they are very similar, but we are looking at future value and potential and I don't think anybody in the world would take IT over Kyrie moving forward.
It should also be noted that we can now keep Smart past 2018 - so that should be noted in the table (Smart vs vet min. player replacing Smart)
And Hayward replacing Crowder? Really?
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Brown has to fully replace AB. LET'S SEE.
Morris has to fully replace KO. KELLY PLAYED 1 GOOD GAME AND 4 MEDIOCRE ONES. EASY.
Baynes has to fully replace Amir. AMIR WAS COOKED, EASY.
Tatum has to fully replace Jerebko. MORE THAN EASY.
Hayward has to fully replace Crowder. LOL.
Irving has to fully replace IT. MUCH BETTER.
Somebody has to replace Brown, who is replacing AB. HIMSELF, PLAYING MORE MINUTES.
Somebody has to replace Zeller as our 3rd big. ANYBODY CAN DO THAT. EVEN ME IN A LADDER.
Laker pick has to replace the BKN pick. LET'S SEE.
That's a lot of contingencies just to get back to last year's team.
You have forgotten some basic things. For example, young players develop year after year. Jaylen Brown will be much better, Rozier and Smart will be better, we have Tatum, etc.
Also, Kyrie and Hayward are two legit all-stars. We didn't have that last year.
Some posters always look the glass half empty. That's tiring...
TP.
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Who wouldn't trade Fultz for Kyrie?
Who wouldn't trade Isaiah, Jae, Zizic for Tatum?
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Why rearrange?
...
Why not?
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Why rearrange?
...
Why not?
When you rearrange the trades, I think, the new versions are more of a no-brainer than the originals. Instead of overpaying for Kyrie as a third of the forum believes, Fultz for Kyrie is a no-brainer for us, avoiding all the risk of waiting on Fultz to maybe develop into something as good as Kyrie, getting certainty and still staying young. If that's the first of the two trades, then one year of Isaiah on an iffy hip + Crowder + Zizic for Tatum, the #1 prospect on the C's draft board, is also a no-brainer. The Lakers and Nets picks cancel each other out, as opposed to the Nets pick being compared to and valued more than Kyrie.
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And don't forget that Irving is replacing IT with a potential bum hip. Celtics don't even offer this trade if IT4 is healthy, which he's not or Cleveland would Ta ask for additional compensation.
Even if Isaiah were healthy, I would strongly consider trading one healthy year of him, and Crowder, and Zizic for Tatum. Especially if I had Tatum rated the top prospect of the draft. And especially if I already had Kyrie in hand from trading Fultz for him, Isaiah would be superfluous, healthy or not.
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Brown has to fully replace AB. LET'S SEE. Doubt it this season.
Morris has to fully replace KO. KELLY PLAYED 1 GOOD GAME AND 4 MEDIOCRE ONES. EASY. Should be doable.
Baynes has to fully replace Amir. AMIR WAS COOKED, EASY. That is easy.
Tatum has to fully replace Jerebko. MORE THAN EASY. Will probably surpass.
Hayward has to fully replace Crowder. LOL. Yes, he will far surpass Crowder's impact..
Irving has to fully replace IT. MUCH BETTER. Much better how? Give me some evidence other than he's younger and taller. Zero statistical evidence supports the statement that Irving is much better than IT.
Somebody has to replace Brown, who is replacing AB. HIMSELF, PLAYING MORE MINUTES. Brown/Tatum get minutes.
Somebody has to replace Zeller as our 3rd big. ANYBODY CAN DO THAT. EVEN ME IN A LADDER. K.
Laker pick has to replace the BKN pick. LET'S SEE. Nets faces the chance at a top pick. The Lakers/Kings will not.
That's a lot of contingencies just to get back to last year's team.
You have forgotten some basic things. For example, young players develop year after year. Jaylen Brown will be much better, Rozier and Smart will be better, we have Tatum, etc.
Also, Kyrie and Hayward are two legit all-stars. We didn't have that last year.
Some posters always look the glass half empty. That's tiring...
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Brown has to fully replace AB.
Morris has to fully replace KO.
Baynes has to fully replace Amir.
Tatum has to fully replace Jerebko.
Hayward has to fully replace Crowder.
Irving has to fully replace IT.
Somebody has to replace Brown, who is replacing AB.
Somebody has to replace Zeller as our 3rd big.
Laker pick has to replace the BKN pick.
That's a lot of contingencies just to get back to last year's team.
Fully replace Jae "Brick" Crowder? Jonas Jerebko? Tyler Zeller?!
When those are your concerns, you're not winning anything. Better try something else -- like picking up two players that're better than any you had last year. Stars win in the NBA -- not teams with role players from top to bottom.
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Imagine that the trades were...
Kyrie
for
Fultz
Tatum + Lakers/Kings pick
for
Isaiah, Crowder, Zizic + the Nets pick
...would you feel better about each trade?
Who wouldn't trade Fultz for Kyrie?
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Imagine that the trades were...
Kyrie
for
Fultz
Tatum + Lakers/Kings pick
for
Isaiah, Crowder, Zizic + the Nets pick
...would you feel better about each trade?
Who wouldn't trade Fultz for Kyrie?
I'm assuming the Sixers.
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Imagine that the trades were...
Kyrie
for
Fultz
Tatum + Lakers/Kings pick
for
Isaiah, Crowder, Zizic + the Nets pick
...would you feel better about each trade?
Who wouldn't trade Fultz for Kyrie?
I'm assuming the Sixers.
Different contexts. If you were the Celtics, not in total rebuild mode but reload mode, would you not trade the uncertainty and waiting with Fultz for the certainty and immediacy with Kyrie?