CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Phantom255x on August 26, 2017, 08:30:11 PM
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In the 'short list' of teams Kyrie provided with the Cavaliers right after it became news he wanted out of Cleveland, Boston was not on that list.
If I remember correctly, teams like NYK, San Antonio and Minnesota were on that list (and a 4th team not named Boston was too, though I forgot who that team was.. Phoenix? Idk.)
I only ask because hey, if Kyrie really LOVES the idea of playing in Boston, he could tell Cleveland and potential suitors.. "I will not play for anyone besides Boston and I will not re-sign with your team when my deal is up" :laugh:
Then CLE pretty much has no choice and no other team will offer up too much for him either.
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In the 'short list' of teams Kyrie provided with the Cavaliers right after it became news he wanted out of Cleveland, Boston was not on that list.
If I remember correctly, teams like NYK, San Antonio and Minnesota were on that list (and a 4th team not named Boston was too, though I forgot who that team was.. Phoenix? Idk.)
I only ask because hey, if Kyrie really LOVES the idea of playing in Boston, he could tell Cleveland and potential suitors.. "I will not play for anyone besides Boston and I will not re-sign with your team when my deal is up" :laugh:
Then CLE pretty much has no choice and no other team will offer up too much for him either.
that was a BS list from woj the Celtics hater
David freaking griffin in an interview said kyrie wanted to play for Stevens and with hayward
Not only that, ainge called kyrie on tuesday with the news and he said kyrie was ecstatic. The team has literally spoken with kyrie
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He gave up a bunch of money to come here by waiving his trade kicker. Whether this was his top destination or not he's clearly into playing here.
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In the 'short list' of teams Kyrie provided with the Cavaliers right after it became news he wanted out of Cleveland, Boston was not on that list.
If I remember correctly, teams like NYK, San Antonio and Minnesota were on that list (and a 4th team not named Boston was too, though I forgot who that team was.. Phoenix? Idk.)
I only ask because hey, if Kyrie really LOVES the idea of playing in Boston, he could tell Cleveland and potential suitors.. "I will not play for anyone besides Boston and I will not re-sign with your team when my deal is up" :laugh:
Then CLE pretty much has no choice and no other team will offer up too much for him either.
that was a BS list from woj the Celtics hater
David freaking griffin in an interview said kyrie wanted to play for Stevens and with hayward
Not only that, ainge called kyrie on tuesday with the news and he said he was ecstatic
Woj is really getting on my nerves this off season. Yeah he hasn't been wrong BUT he has rarely broken any of the Celtics major moves and the only time he does is when there's drama (Hayward not making his decision; now this Irving drama) ::)
But also, didn't Woj report that Irving was 'ecstatic' about coming here :P
Anyways I have to check that video out on Youtube again (Griffin on The Jump)
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After playing in Boston for the remainder of his contract, and being in the thick of the playoffs. I feel confident he'll grow to love the Celtics. He got just what he wanted, he's "the man" on a contender, he has the keys to the car.
Not counting the Nets draft pick... we just slipped a fast ball by the Cavs. Hopefully it sticks.
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He gave up a bunch of money to come here by waiving his repeater tax. Whether this was his top destination or not he's clearly into playing here.
Yes!
He waived a 5% salary increase (trade kicker) to save the celtics money.
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He gave up a bunch of money to come here by waiving his repeater tax. Whether this was his top destination or not he's clearly into playing here.
That's not quite right. He waived his trade kicker, but he wouldn't have gotten then money anyway unless he got traded (and afaik the trade couldn't have happened as constructed if he picked it up). Luxury Tax is not paid to the players, it's put into a pool and then divided evenly among non-tax paying teams. The only way he could get more than his contracted amount (excluding playoff bonuses and the trade kicker he waived) would be by going to a team that is under the salary floor at the end of next season
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He gave up a bunch of money to come here by waiving his repeater tax. Whether this was his top destination or not he's clearly into playing here.
Yes!
He waived a 5% salary increase (trade kicker) to save the celtics money.
That's true. ;D
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He gave up a bunch of money to come here by waiving his repeater tax. Whether this was his top destination or not he's clearly into playing here.
That's not quite right. He waived his trade kicker, but he wouldn't have gotten then money anyway unless he got traded (and afaik the trade couldn't have happened as constructed if he picked it up). Luxury Tax is not paid to the players, it's put into a pool and then divided evenly among non-tax paying teams. The only way he could get more than his contracted amount (excluding playoff bonuses and the trade kicker he waived) would be by going to a team that is under the salary floor at the end of next season
There was an article on SB Nation saying Kyrie gave up a lot of money and potential future money to come to Boston
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He gave up a bunch of money to come here by waiving his repeater tax. Whether this was his top destination or not he's clearly into playing here.
That's not quite right. He waived his trade kicker, but he wouldn't have gotten then money anyway unless he got traded (and afaik the trade couldn't have happened as constructed if he picked it up). Luxury Tax is not paid to the players, it's put into a pool and then divided evenly among non-tax paying teams. The only way he could get more than his contracted amount (excluding playoff bonuses and the trade kicker he waived) would be by going to a team that is under the salary floor at the end of next season
Oops, I muddled two things from a recent post there - I changed it to "trade kicker". That's what I meant. And yeah, would've required more salary if he hadn't waived it, but doing just that becomes a way of semi-vetoing a trade itself.
He gave up a bunch of money to come here by waiving his repeater tax. Whether this was his top destination or not he's clearly into playing here.
Yes!
He waived a 5% salary increase (trade kicker) to save the celtics money.
15%. Potentially a lot of $ if we'd been willing to chip in the extra salary to pay for the raise.
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He gave up a bunch of money to come here by waiving his repeater tax. Whether this was his top destination or not he's clearly into playing here.
That's not quite right. He waived his trade kicker, but he wouldn't have gotten then money anyway unless he got traded (and afaik the trade couldn't have happened as constructed if he picked it up). Luxury Tax is not paid to the players, it's put into a pool and then divided evenly among non-tax paying teams. The only way he could get more than his contracted amount (excluding playoff bonuses and the trade kicker he waived) would be by going to a team that is under the salary floor at the end of next season
Oops, I muddled two things from a recent post there - I changed it to "trade kicker". That's what I meant. And yeah, would've required more salary if he hadn't waived it, but doing just that becomes a way of semi-vetoing a trade itself.
He gave up a bunch of money to come here by waiving his repeater tax. Whether this was his top destination or not he's clearly into playing here.
Yes!
He waived a 5% salary increase (trade kicker) to save the celtics money.
15%. Potentially a lot of $ if we'd been willing to chip in the extra salary to pay for the raise.
Yep, it was just short of $6 million that he waived. He could have even kept about $1.8 million and the salaries would have still matched for the trade.
I don't know if he'll ultimately like it here (should the trade go through), but he's certainly starting off with a good-faith effort.
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I imagine he didn't think of Boston at first but once he was traded I bet he's thrilled by it. His dad was a star at BU and probably had a good time, right in the middle of that C's dynasty, '84-88, and he was Reggie Lewis's main rival. I bet Kyrie gets great vibes about the franchise. Plus, he'd get to join the main team in the league with the mission of trying to beat LeBron? With all our talent, and with Stevens as coach? He might not make any demands, but I bet he'd be majorly bummed if the trade falls apart and he's sent to one of those cities he originally wanted.
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He gave up a bunch of money to come here by waiving his repeater tax. Whether this was his top destination or not he's clearly into playing here.
Yes!
He waived a 5% salary increase (trade kicker) to save the celtics money.
this
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From the rumors, he wanted to get away from Lebron, all the "circus" that surrounds him and the extra Circus of this season. He just wants to play basketball.
Playing with Hayward,Horford,Brown,Smart, they're straight up no drama ballers. Tatum could even be considered that from interview with his mom, just seems down to earth.
And you have a coach and organization that are the same. Where most organizations are worried how to fill seats, Boston first worry is titles.
This could be a good fit.
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“[Kyrie’s] list included really good coaching situations,” Griffin said. “Brad Stevens and [Gregg] Popovich.”
“[Irving] is a guy who recruited LeBron, Hayward and a host of other free agents, and all of a sudden LeBron came back, so he was sold a totally different situation than he’s actually in.”
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I don't think Kyrie likes the idea of playing in Boston. I believe he LOVES the idea of playing in Boston. So much that he waived a $3 million trade kicker to make the deal work.
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I think he does. The franchise's history has some big names that carried the team. Who wouldn't want to be loved as much as PP is?
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YES
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I think he does. The franchise's history has some big names that carried the team. Who wouldn't want to be loved as much as PP is?
Isaiah was loved and...
Welp. :'(
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I think he LOVES the idea of playing with Coach Stevens and personally getting past Bron to get into the finals.
I think he relishes the opportunity to beat Bron and end his "legacy"
Kyrie is absolutely thinking "If I lead the Celtics past Bron and THEN I lead them past Steph Curry/Durant and I win a Finals MVP.....I will automatically be in the MVP conversation every single year. I will automatically be an all NBA guy every year, and I will be an automatic HOF conversation guy. If I stay where I am, at absolute best I'm in the Scottie Pippen conversation. I don't like that idea."
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I hope so .
but im becoming skeptical of a trade being completed at the moment .
I think Irving has to find a home other than Cleveland..damage done... .....AND
If Boston is that landing spot .......
He may very well end up battling Lebron again in future years
Celtic and Lakers games . Im totally convinced Lebron is LA bound.
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I think he does. The franchise's history has some big names that carried the team. Who wouldn't want to be loved as much as PP is?
Isaiah was loved and...
Welp. :'(
That is just so not the same... He was here for 2 years. Listen I like Isaiah a lot but he's not a Celtics legend. I'd even rank Rondo ahead of him on that list. In fact that not even in question, I'd definitely put Rondo above him on the list.
Comparing the emotion of his departure to Paul Pierce is not cool.
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I think he does. The franchise's history has some big names that carried the team. Who wouldn't want to be loved as much as PP is?
Isaiah was loved and...
Welp. :'(
That is just so not the same... He was here for 2 years. Listen I like Isaiah a lot but he's not a Celtics legend. I'd even rank Rondo ahead of him on that list. In fact that not even in question, I'd definitely put Rondo above him on the list.
Comparing the emotion of his departure to Paul Pierce is not cool.
Agreed for the most part.
Isaiah contributed and is part of the rebuilding era to bring the team back to being competitive. He lived the Boston culture and he loved it and gave for it. Just like every other Boston Celtic have done before him ^^
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From the rumors, he wanted to get away from Lebron, all the "circus" that surrounds him and the extra Circus of this season. He just wants to play basketball.
Playing with Hayward,Horford,Brown,Smart, they're straight up no drama ballers. Tatum could even be considered that from interview with his mom, just seems down to earth.
And you have a coach and organization that are the same. Where most organizations are worried how to fill seats, Boston first worry is titles.
This could be a good fit.
You made me think after this. I can only say I expect Kyrie to flourish in Boston!
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I think he does. The franchise's history has some big names that carried the team. Who wouldn't want to be loved as much as PP is?
Isaiah was loved and...
Welp. :'(
He is still loved and always will be, like PP
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Why wouldn't he?
He waived his trade kicker to come here, he wants to work with Brad Stevens, he recruited Gordon Hayward in the past, the storied franchise and history of Boston.
Plus we're a contender.
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The Cavs are surely acting out the trade , like Irving is a guy who.ISN'T leaving making demands from standpoint he is coming back if the deal falls though and everything comes up roses .
Irving asked for a trade good while back . Cavs keep dragging their feet . The marriage is over , he spent a long time , mulling and planning to leave .
The people that own and run the Cavs are amazingly inept.
He must be satisfied with the trade or else he d be hollering about be shipped to Boston.
Again.....Lebron is the problem ...if he is not there its just another big trade. Please let him go West ASAP.
Ill be so glade when Lebron james is history and the sport can go back to more,stability
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Yeah, I think he views it as a better option than Phoenix or Milwaukee in all odds. He had a list of four teams reportedly initially so he's not Melo locked in on one destination.
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How many good players get to Boston and end up not liking it?
Once they get here, they love it
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Yeah, I think he views it as a better option than Phoenix or Milwaukee in all odds. He had a list of four teams reportedly initially so he's not Melo locked in on one destination.
If you believe David Griffin, we were on his list as well.
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I think he does. The franchise's history has some big names that carried the team. Who wouldn't want to be loved as much as PP is?
Isaiah was loved and...
Welp. :'(
So were Walter McCarty and Brian Scalabrine. How did it work out for them?
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I hope he does, the city is already embracing him
http://imgur.com/a/DvYs9
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I think he does. The franchise's history has some big names that carried the team. Who wouldn't want to be loved as much as PP is?
Isaiah was loved and...
Welp. :'(
So were Walter McCarty and Brian Scalabrine. How did it work out for them?
Scal ended up with a ring.
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I think he does. The franchise's history has some big names that carried the team. Who wouldn't want to be loved as much as PP is?
Isaiah was loved and...
Welp. :'(
So were Walter McCarty and Brian Scalabrine. How did it work out for them?
Scal ended up with a ring.
And now he works a decent gig with the media.
And McCarty is a coach, right?
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I hope he does, the city is already embracing him
http://imgur.com/a/DvYs9
I just saw this but LOL!
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I see most people on social media saying BOS lost this trade, "took an L", simply because Kyrie will bolt in 2 years. If that's the case... ugh.
Hope not. He does seem happy to be in Boston BUT we haven't heard anything from Kyrie directly either.
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I see most people on social media saying BOS lost this trade, "took an L", simply because Kyrie will bolt in 2 years. If that's the case... ugh.
Hope not. He does seem happy to be in Boston BUT we haven't heard anything from Kyrie directly either.
That's just the inherent risk of having a great player in the NBA now-a-days. Contracts are so short and player options are the norm, you don't have more than 2 or 3 years of certainty for any player who isn't still on a rookie deal.
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I see most people on social media saying BOS lost this trade, "took an L", simply because Kyrie will bolt in 2 years. If that's the case... ugh.
Hope not. He does seem happy to be in Boston BUT we haven't heard anything from Kyrie directly either.
It's been widely reported that Boston feels "very strongly" that Kyrie will stay here long-term. Danny wouldn't have made this trade if he didnt have a good idea of Kyrie's intentions.
Besides, where else would he go? The only teams that come to mind are the Knicks and Nets for him to be closer to home, but do you really think he'd leave a perennial contender where's he's "the man" go to either of those dumpster fires?
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I see most people on social media saying BOS lost this trade, "took an L", simply because Kyrie will bolt in 2 years. If that's the case... ugh.
Hope not. He does seem happy to be in Boston BUT we haven't heard anything from Kyrie directly either.
That's just the inherent risk of having a great player in the NBA now-a-days. Contracts are so short and player options are the norm, you don't have more than 2 or 3 years of certainty for any player who isn't still on a rookie deal.
Makes sense, but that will be awful if he does leave.
I hated this trade to begin with (vast overpay) and it will actually look even worse if Kyrie bolts in 2 years.
TONS of risks involved here.
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I see most people on social media saying BOS lost this trade, "took an L", simply because Kyrie will bolt in 2 years. If that's the case... ugh.
Hope not. He does seem happy to be in Boston BUT we haven't heard anything from Kyrie directly either.
It's been widely reported that Boston feels "very strongly" that Kyrie will stay here long-term. Danny wouldn't have made this trade if he didnt have a good idea of Kyrie's intentions.
Besides, where else would he go? The only teams that come to mind are the Knicks and Nets for him to be closer to home, but do you really think he'd leave a perennial contender where's he's "the man" go to either of those dumpster fires?
Who knows? Maybe San Antonio find a way to clear space and get Irving (though he'd still be like a #2 guy behind Leonard there)?
Phoenix?
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I see most people on social media saying BOS lost this trade, "took an L", simply because Kyrie will bolt in 2 years. If that's the case... ugh.
Hope not. He does seem happy to be in Boston BUT we haven't heard anything from Kyrie directly either.
That's just the inherent risk of having a great player in the NBA now-a-days. Contracts are so short and player options are the norm, you don't have more than 2 or 3 years of certainty for any player who isn't still on a rookie deal.
Makes sense, but that will be awful if he does leave.
I hated this trade to begin with (vast overpay) and it will actually look even worse if Kyrie bolts in 2 years.
TONS of risks involved here.
If we get to the finals within the next two seasons, hard to imagine Kyrie bolting, especially if he is leading the way, which is to be expected. I think it is fair to say it will become his team, just as it was IT's team last season. Gordon Hayward seems content to be a strong side kick guy, same with Al. Can see Tatum maybe stepping up to co-star with Irving, but not for 3-4 years.
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To answer the OP:
I hope so or this deal will go down as one of the worst trades in NBA history and that's not hyperbole.
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Yup, there is a lot of risk for Boston. We're trading away a pick and starting player we had under contract for 3 more years at a cheap rate. Not to mention the chance to resign Thomas as our PG for the next few years.
Still not a huge fan of this move because for it to work Kyrie has to evolve from being a one dimensional offensive player, but at least its finally done.
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To answer the OP:
I hope so or this deal will go down as one of the worst trades in NBA history and that's not hyperbole.
The only way this goes down as the worst trades in NBA history is if the pick becomes an MVP caliber player.
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To answer the OP:
I hope so or this deal will go down as one of the worst trades in NBA history and that's not hyperbole.
The only way this goes down as the worst trades in NBA history is if the pick becomes an MVP caliber player.
I think you underestimate the risk.
If Kyrie leaves after two years and we haven't won a title the deal is a massive bust no matter who is selected in the draft. It's not just the pick, it's also Zizic (who was valued as a late lottery pick at draft time), Crowder (one of the best contracts in the league) and breaking up the core of an ascending, 53 win, ECF team. The only way that isn't true is if IT is done (and he's not).
It's also not just "the pick" but the value of the pick. There's a simple economic idea called opportunity cost. Even if the pick turns out to be a bust, there's also the question of who else could we have reasonably drafted with that pick or who we could have received in a trade for that pick. Thus Irving leaving means we gave away a good prospect, a top contract, an All-Star who wasn't yet 30 and a pick that could have returned any number of All-Star caliber players. That's an epic bust any way you slice it.
If it turns out to be #1, Bags ends up being the Next Great Thing and Irving leaves? Then this goes down as the worst trade in modern NBA history. Even worse than the Brooklyn deal that gave us those picks. It would be considered about as bad as the deal that ultimately ended up bringing Magic to the Lakers.
I'm not saying that's what it will go down as. I hope that Irving develops into what we all hope he can become and the Nets pick ends up being 7th or 8th. Then we win. But Lordy there's a lot of risk in this one.
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Dream situation for him
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He loves it:
Parents both went to BU.
Great team and system.
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To answer the OP:
I hope so or this deal will go down as one of the worst trades in NBA history and that's not hyperbole.
The only way this goes down as the worst trades in NBA history is if the pick becomes an MVP caliber player.
I think you underestimate the risk.
If Kyrie leaves after two years and we haven't won a title the deal is a massive bust no matter who is selected in the draft. It's not just the pick, it's also Zizic (who was valued as a late lottery pick at draft time), Crowder (one of the best contracts in the league) and breaking up the core of an ascending, 53 win, ECF team. The only way that isn't true is if IT is done (and he's not).
It's also not just "the pick" but the value of the pick. There's a simple economic idea called opportunity cost. Even if the pick turns out to be a bust, there's also the question of who else could we have reasonably drafted with that pick or who we could have received in a trade for that pick. Thus Irving leaving means we gave away a good prospect, a top contract, an All-Star who wasn't yet 30 and a pick that could have returned any number of All-Star caliber players. That's an epic bust any way you slice it.
If it turns out to be #1, Bags ends up being the Next Great Thing and Irving leaves? Then this goes down as the worst trade in modern NBA history. Even worse than the Brooklyn deal that gave us those picks. It would be considered about as bad as the deal that ultimately ended up bringing Magic to the Lakers.
I'm not saying that's what it will go down as. I hope that Irving develops into what we all hope he can become and the Nets pick ends up being 7th or 8th. Then we win. But Lordy there's a lot of risk in this one.
So the BKN trade that brought us:
The #17 in 2014, #3 in 2016, #3 in 2017, the LAL/Sac pick, and the BKN 2018 pick would be worse than trading:
One those picks, an injured/aging star, a good role player, and low ceiling 1st for a perennial all-star in his prime...for at least 2 seasons? I mean, I don't know what to say. BKN got 1 year of Pierce and 1 1/2 years of KG. That is just dreadful and has set that team back for over a decade.
Sticking with recent Boston trades, I would say the IT PHX deal would still be considered worse than this one. Continuing with this exercise, how did Minny really make out in the KG trade?
You typically make insightful, articulate posts on CB, but this one is literally the definition of hyperbole.
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I should also note that we should have a pretty good idea whether or not Kyrie will want to re-sign with us by the trading deadline in 2019. If it isn't looking good, we should still be able to recoup some of our losses by acquiring a decent haul for the Bird rights to a max player.
Unless something goes tragically wrong, Kyrie will have the opportunity to make the most money at the most years, in a winning environment, where he is at least the 1a on the team. It may have been a gamble, but not like an all-out one.
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Yes I do
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does he like it.... maybe
or does he LOVE it ... thats the question
answer is yes
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I think he really like the idea of playing for a stable organization with good owners (aka not Dan Gilbert) and a great up and coming coach (aka not LeBron or Tye Lue).
He's in a great spot here.
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To answer the OP:
I hope so or this deal will go down as one of the worst trades in NBA history and that's not hyperbole.
The only way this goes down as the worst trades in NBA history is if the pick becomes an MVP caliber player.
I think you underestimate the risk.
Uh how was last year's C's ascending? Our record exceeded our point differential and expected wins.
Our primary players in the rotation are at their peaks or past it. IT had a career and historic season he was unlikely to replicate in efficiency regardless of injury due to age and career years are not the norm. Bradley is as good as he's going to be, Crowder can improve still but he is what he is, and Horford is on the downslope.
Growth needed to come from Free Agents, Brown, Smart, Rozier and future picks (Tatum, next BKN pick)
No matter what Danny needed to take risks to improve the roster, which is what he's done. I wish he'd picked a different horse than Kyrie myself but the idea that this is soo dang risky is maddening to me.
Same people publishing articles about this risk have been demanding that Ainge make a dang trade for years. Literally the same writers, content! :o
If Kyrie leaves after two years and we haven't won a title the deal is a massive bust no matter who is selected in the draft. It's not just the pick, it's also Zizic (who was valued as a late lottery pick at draft time), Crowder (one of the best contracts in the league) and breaking up the core of an ascending, 53 win, ECF team. The only way that isn't true is if IT is done (and he's not).
It's also not just "the pick" but the value of the pick. There's a simple economic idea called opportunity cost. Even if the pick turns out to be a bust, there's also the question of who else could we have reasonably drafted with that pick or who we could have received in a trade for that pick. Thus Irving leaving means we gave away a good prospect, a top contract, an All-Star who wasn't yet 30 and a pick that could have returned any number of All-Star caliber players. That's an epic bust any way you slice it.
If it turns out to be #1, Bags ends up being the Next Great Thing and Irving leaves? Then this goes down as the worst trade in modern NBA history. Even worse than the Brooklyn deal that gave us those picks. It would be considered about as bad as the deal that ultimately ended up bringing Magic to the Lakers.
I'm not saying that's what it will go down as. I hope that Irving develops into what we all hope he can become and the Nets pick ends up being 7th or 8th. Then we win. But Lordy there's a lot of risk in this one.
Edit man I forgot the Goodrich thing was a FA signing. Such a weird thing for the NBA compared to modern day.
If the pick ends up being an all-timer like LBJ/Magic/Bird then even if we win a title its probably a bad trade for the C's overall. Those guys won multiple titles after all. Them's the breaks of making trades there are risks.
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I think he really like the idea of playing for a stable organization with good owners (aka not Dan Gilbert) and a great up and coming coach (aka not LeBron or Tye Lue).
He's in a great spot here.
He's been citing Stevens as a draw, I don't think he was high on Dan Gilbert, the rotating GM rollacoster, or the coachs that he's had.
But I'm also skeptical he'll change his game like we need him to.
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Yes. I cannot imagine another player of his caliber and age, demanding a trade, and landing on a team with as much talent as Boston has right now.
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He loves it:
Parents both went to BU.
Great team and system.
TP for that! Didn't know that tidbit of his parents going to BU. Wow.
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After watching the First Take segment, I really hope Kyrie is genuine when he says he loves the idea of playing in Boston and it's not just because of all teams he could have been traded to, it happened to be Boston.
Roy H. does offer up a good point though, that maybe Kyrie is just promoting his brand and is acting all smug about it (I didn't see it that way on the segment, but...) :(
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YES!
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He loves it:
Parents both went to BU.
Great team and system.
TP for that! Didn't know that tidbit of his parents going to BU. Wow.
His father is a BU legend.
http://nbafamily.wikia.com/wiki/Drederick_Irving
Makes this moment below kinda heart-warming don't you think?
https://twitter.com/celtics/status/903646819401564161
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YES!
(https://i.giphy.com/media/y0ljcPCxtJQVq/giphy.webp)
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Playing? Yes.
Driving? Not so much.
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To answer the OP:
I hope so or this deal will go down as one of the worst trades in NBA history and that's not hyperbole.
The only way this goes down as the worst trades in NBA history is if the pick becomes an MVP caliber player.
I think you underestimate the risk.
If Kyrie leaves after two years and we haven't won a title the deal is a massive bust no matter who is selected in the draft. It's not just the pick, it's also Zizic (who was valued as a late lottery pick at draft time), Crowder (one of the best contracts in the league) and breaking up the core of an ascending, 53 win, ECF team. The only way that isn't true is if IT is done (and he's not).
It's also not just "the pick" but the value of the pick. There's a simple economic idea called opportunity cost. Even if the pick turns out to be a bust, there's also the question of who else could we have reasonably drafted with that pick or who we could have received in a trade for that pick. Thus Irving leaving means we gave away a good prospect, a top contract, an All-Star who wasn't yet 30 and a pick that could have returned any number of All-Star caliber players. That's an epic bust any way you slice it.
If it turns out to be #1, Bags ends up being the Next Great Thing and Irving leaves? Then this goes down as the worst trade in modern NBA history. Even worse than the Brooklyn deal that gave us those picks. It would be considered about as bad as the deal that ultimately ended up bringing Magic to the Lakers.
I'm not saying that's what it will go down as. I hope that Irving develops into what we all hope he can become and the Nets pick ends up being 7th or 8th. Then we win. But Lordy there's a lot of risk in this one.
So the BKN trade that brought us:
The #17 in 2014, #3 in 2016, #3 in 2017, the LAL/Sac pick, and the BKN 2018 pick would be worse than trading:
One those picks, an injured/aging star, a good role player, and low ceiling 1st for a perennial all-star in his prime...for at least 2 seasons? I mean, I don't know what to say. BKN got 1 year of Pierce and 1 1/2 years of KG. That is just dreadful and has set that team back for over a decade.
Sticking with recent Boston trades, I would say the IT PHX deal would still be considered worse than this one. Continuing with this exercise, how did Minny really make out in the KG trade?
You typically make insightful, articulate posts on CB, but this one is literally the definition of hyperbole.
Don't bother...he is tripping.
There is really no way this trade could possibly become "one of the worst trades in NBA history" unless multiple events happen that are unlikely and completely unpredictable - for example, if two or more of the following happens:
1. Isaiah somehow recovers sooner then expected, puts up numeers just as dominant as last year and does so for the next 3-4
2. Cleveland trades Kevin Love and the Brooklyn 1st to the Pelicans for Anthony Davis
3. Cleveland, led by the amazing core of IT4/Crowder/Lebron/AD/TT defeat Golden State in the finals and Lebron gets his 4th ring
4. Lebron agrees to sign a super-max deal to remain in Cleveland for the next 5 years and remainder of his career
5. Cleveland goes on to forge a dynasty, winning championships in three of the next 5 seasons - Lebron retires with championship rings, overtaking Jordan and truly cementing his place on Jordan's level as a GOAT candidate
6. Kyrie (knock on wood) suffers constant injury issues with his feet/ankles/knees, never plays more than 50 game in a season for the next 2 seasons, and struggles to match the numbers he's been putting up in previous seasons - injuries also worsen his defence, which now drops off to "worst defender of all time" level
7. Hayward proves that his big season with Utah was purely a result of it being a contract year (and him being extra motivated) - goes on to drop back down to 18-19 PPG - 19 PPG over the duration of his time in Boston. Also goes on to prove that his apparent defensive improvements were only a result of him having Rudy Gobert covering his butt the last couple of years - defence takes a massive decline in Boston and he is exposed as being one of the worst defensive wings in the NBA
8. Al Horford declines again for the 3rd straight season, only this time the decline is far more severe. His numbers drop down to 10 points, 5 rebounds and 4 assists (in 29 MPG) with his percentages dropping to 43% / 29% / 75% - his mobility reduces significantly compared to last year, to the point where he struggles to switch on to power forwards and proves too slow to defend the P&R, with his overall defence reducing to just average.
9. Marcus Morris and his brother lose their lawsuit - both brothers end up gong to jail for several years for aggravated assault, and Morris' never gets to put on a Celtics Jersey
10. Jaylen Brown struggles to prove he is skilled enough to realise the potential people believe he has - after Ainge gives him a max extension, he ends up peaking as a slightly inferior version of Jae Crowder
11. Tatum disappoints - Ends up a weak defensive player who is too slow laterally to guards quick small forwards (or guards) and too weak in the lower body to guard strong small forwards (or PFs) - proves to only be able to defend fairly slow and weak small forwards with relative effectiveness. Rebounds poorly. Jumpshot disappears once he gets to the NBA level due to his struggles against the speed and length/strength of NBA opponents. Ends up proving too soft emotionally to deal with this, and hence peaks as a less athletic Jeff Green.
12. Marcus Smart gets signed to $15Mx4 - goes on to display one of the worst 3-5 year shooting spans ever recorded for an NBA guard, cements his reputation as one of the worst shooters ever to play the guard position in the NBA. Puts on weight due to Sully-like eating habits, develops the body of Raymond Felton and becomes too slow to defend NBA guards. NBA introduces a new rule in which players start to receive a technical foul for every flopping attempt. Marcus Smart ends up leading the NBA in technical fouls for 5 consecutive seasons. After his contract ends no NBA team signs him due to his flopping problems and inability to shoot the ball, so he leaves the NBA and builds a long and successfully career in Russia - where he goes on to thrive off his physicality and flopping skills.
13. Danny trades Terry Rozier (and the Lakers pick) to the 76ers for JJ Reddick - who then has a career ending injury after coming down on Zaza Pachilia's foot on a three point shot. After being given a starting role / minutes in Philly Rozier goes on to become an elite two-way PG, going on to average averaging 22 / 8 / 5 and making multiple all defensive teams. Fultz becomes an elite scorer at over 28 PPG. Rozier and Fultz combine to form one of the most dominant backcourts in NBA history while Embiid heals properly from his injury and becomes the best big man since Shaq. Simmons goes on to become the first player in NBA history to average a triple double 5 straight seasons - Philly meet Cleveland in the ECT for the next 4-5 years, with those two teams proving so dominant that nobody else comes close to sniffing a an ECF run
14. Danny Ainge gets fired, Brad Stevens leaves when his contract runs out (goes to Cleveland because he wanted to be reunited with Isaiah). The trade hurts Boston so much that the team gets sold - gets bought by some big offshore company who decides to relocate from Boston to Maine and merges the Celtics and Redclaws into a new team called the Celclaws - this kills all brand awareness, and the team goes on to become who suck horribly for the next 30 years.
If at least 2 or 3 things on that list occur, then maybe we find outselves in a place where we could make an argument (Knock on wood - I mean I'm actually knocking on wood now) that this could end up one of the worst trades in NBA History.
Failing that, the worst that we are likely to see from this is a trade where we gave up multiple assets (Crowder, Zizic and a good pick) in order to do a trade that ultimately proves to be a side-step. Even then the facts that Thomas is injured and Kyrie is younger still provides justification enough to make the trade worthwhile, and as a result there is realistically almost zero chance that this ever becomes "one of the worst trades in NBA history".
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Yes, but so did IT. But yeah I like it.
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That's the most depressing list I've ever read even if only half of them come true. Please don't write literature for suicide candidates. They would all jump off a bridge after reading that if they are Celtics fans! LOL
There is really no way this trade could possibly become "one of the worst trades in NBA history" unless multiple events happen that are unlikely and completely unpredictable - for example, if two or more of the following happens:
1. Isaiah somehow recovers sooner then expected, puts up numeers just as dominant as last year and does so for the next 3-4
2. Cleveland trades Kevin Love and the Brooklyn 1st to the Pelicans for Anthony Davis
3. Cleveland, led by the amazing core of IT4/Crowder/Lebron/AD/TT defeat Golden State in the finals and Lebron gets his 4th ring
4. Lebron agrees to sign a super-max deal to remain in Cleveland for the next 5 years and remainder of his career
5. Cleveland goes on to forge a dynasty, winning championships in three of the next 5 seasons - Lebron retires with championship rings, overtaking Jordan and truly cementing his place on Jordan's level as a GOAT candidate
6. Kyrie (knock on wood) suffers constant injury issues with his feet/ankles/knees, never plays more than 50 game in a season for the next 2 seasons, and struggles to match the numbers he's been putting up in previous seasons - injuries also worsen his defence, which now drops off to "worst defender of all time" level
7. Hayward proves that his big season with Utah was purely a result of it being a contract year (and him being extra motivated) - goes on to drop back down to 18-19 PPG - 19 PPG over the duration of his time in Boston. Also goes on to prove that his apparent defensive improvements were only a result of him having Rudy Gobert covering his butt the last couple of years - defence takes a massive decline in Boston and he is exposed as being one of the worst defensive wings in the NBA
8. Al Horford declines again for the 3rd straight season, only this time the decline is far more severe. His numbers drop down to 10 points, 5 rebounds and 4 assists (in 29 MPG) with his percentages dropping to 43% / 29% / 75% - his mobility reduces significantly compared to last year, to the point where he struggles to switch on to power forwards and proves too slow to defend the P&R, with his overall defence reducing to just average.
9. Marcus Morris and his brother lose their lawsuit - both brothers end up gong to jail for several years for aggravated assault, and Morris' never gets to put on a Celtics Jersey
10. Jaylen Brown struggles to prove he is skilled enough to realise the potential people believe he has - after Ainge gives him a max extension, he ends up peaking as a slightly inferior version of Jae Crowder
11. Tatum disappoints - Ends up a weak defensive player who is too slow laterally to guards quick small forwards (or guards) and too weak in the lower body to guard strong small forwards (or PFs) - proves to only be able to defend fairly slow and weak small forwards with relative effectiveness. Rebounds poorly. Jumpshot disappears once he gets to the NBA level due to his struggles against the speed and length/strength of NBA opponents. Ends up proving too soft emotionally to deal with this, and hence peaks as a less athletic Jeff Green.
12. Marcus Smart gets signed to $15Mx4 - goes on to display one of the worst 3-5 year shooting spans ever recorded for an NBA guard, cements his reputation as one of the worst shooters ever to play the guard position in the NBA. Puts on weight due to Sully-like eating habits, develops the body of Raymond Felton and becomes too slow to defend NBA guards. NBA introduces a new rule in which players start to receive a technical foul for every flopping attempt. Marcus Smart ends up leading the NBA in technical fouls for 5 consecutive seasons. After his contract ends no NBA team signs him due to his flopping problems and inability to shoot the ball, so he leaves the NBA and builds a long and successfully career in Russia - where he goes on to thrive off his physicality and flopping skills.
13. Danny trades Terry Rozier (and the Lakers pick) to the 76ers for JJ Reddick - who then has a career ending injury after coming down on Zaza Pachilia's foot on a three point shot. After being given a starting role / minutes in Philly Rozier goes on to become an elite two-way PG, going on to average averaging 22 / 8 / 5 and making multiple all defensive teams. Fultz becomes an elite scorer at over 28 PPG. Rozier and Fultz combine to form one of the most dominant backcourts in NBA history while Embiid heals properly from his injury and becomes the best big man since Shaq. Simmons goes on to become the first player in NBA history to average a triple double 5 straight seasons - Philly meet Cleveland in the ECT for the next 4-5 years, with those two teams proving so dominant that nobody else comes close to sniffing a an ECF run
14. Danny Ainge gets fired, Brad Stevens leaves when his contract runs out (goes to Cleveland because he wanted to be reunited with Isaiah). The trade hurts Boston so much that the team gets sold - gets bought by some big offshore company who decides to relocate from Boston to Maine and merges the Celtics and Redclaws into a new team called the Celclaws - this kills all brand awareness, and the team goes on to become who suck horribly for the next 30 years.
If at least 2 or 3 things on that list occur, then maybe we find outselves in a place where we could make an argument (Knock on wood - I mean I'm actually knocking on wood now) that this could end up one of the worst trades in NBA History.
Failing that, the worst that we are likely to see from this is a trade where we gave up multiple assets (Crowder, Zizic and a good pick) in order to do a trade that ultimately proves to be a side-step. Even then the facts that Thomas is injured and Kyrie is younger still provides justification enough to make the trade worthwhile, and as a result there is realistically almost zero chance that this ever becomes "one of the worst trades in NBA history".
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Do I think Kyrie likes the idea of playing in Boston? Well, I think Kyrie would say that the question its self is part of the problem. We are all, as you know, relativistically positionless when moving with momentum. Similarly it is only when we have no momentum that our position becomes known to ourselves. And Kyrie as a man, and you should respect that, as a man he decided that his momentum was more important than his position, because being positionless is being weightless. It's also important to bring up Charlottesville and Houston. And Kyrie as a weightless man without position, and you should respect that, as a weightless man without position he understands that bringing up things that happened means you can't unbring them up and they've been broughten, which can change momentum or not at all. He also can say definitively that the pizza in Boston is better than he thought it would be and Brad Stevens seems nice.
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I have no doubt Kyrie is overjoyed
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Do I think Kyrie likes the idea of playing in Boston? Well, I think Kyrie would say that the question its self is part of the problem. We are all, as you know, relativistically positionless when moving with momentum. Similarly it is only when we have no momentum that our position becomes known to ourselves. And Kyrie as a man, and you should respect that, as a man he decided that his momentum was more important than his position, because being positionless is being weightless. It's also important to bring up Charlottesville and Houston. And Kyrie as a weightless man without position, and you should respect that, as a weightless man without position he understands that bringing up things that happened means you can't unbring them up and they've been broughten, which can change momentum or not at all. He also can say definitively that the pizza in Boston is better than he thought it would be and Brad Stevens seems nice.
Well done. TP.
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To answer the OP:
I hope so or this deal will go down as one of the worst trades in NBA history and that's not hyperbole.
The only way this goes down as the worst trades in NBA history is if the pick becomes an MVP caliber player.
I think you underestimate the risk.
If Kyrie leaves after two years and we haven't won a title the deal is a massive bust no matter who is selected in the draft. It's not just the pick, it's also Zizic (who was valued as a late lottery pick at draft time), Crowder (one of the best contracts in the league) and breaking up the core of an ascending, 53 win, ECF team. The only way that isn't true is if IT is done (and he's not).
It's also not just "the pick" but the value of the pick. There's a simple economic idea called opportunity cost. Even if the pick turns out to be a bust, there's also the question of who else could we have reasonably drafted with that pick or who we could have received in a trade for that pick. Thus Irving leaving means we gave away a good prospect, a top contract, an All-Star who wasn't yet 30 and a pick that could have returned any number of All-Star caliber players. That's an epic bust any way you slice it.
If it turns out to be #1, Bags ends up being the Next Great Thing and Irving leaves? Then this goes down as the worst trade in modern NBA history. Even worse than the Brooklyn deal that gave us those picks. It would be considered about as bad as the deal that ultimately ended up bringing Magic to the Lakers.
I'm not saying that's what it will go down as. I hope that Irving develops into what we all hope he can become and the Nets pick ends up being 7th or 8th. Then we win. But Lordy there's a lot of risk in this one.
So the BKN trade that brought us:
The #17 in 2014, #3 in 2016, #3 in 2017, the LAL/Sac pick, and the BKN 2018 pick would be worse than trading:
One those picks, an injured/aging star, a good role player, and low ceiling 1st for a perennial all-star in his prime...for at least 2 seasons? I mean, I don't know what to say. BKN got 1 year of Pierce and 1 1/2 years of KG. That is just dreadful and has set that team back for over a decade.
Sticking with recent Boston trades, I would say the IT PHX deal would still be considered worse than this one. Continuing with this exercise, how did Minny really make out in the KG trade?
You typically make insightful, articulate posts on CB, but this one is literally the definition of hyperbole.
Don't bother...he is tripping.
There is really no way this trade could possibly become "one of the worst trades in NBA history" unless multiple events happen that are unlikely and completely unpredictable - for example, if two or more of the following happens:
1. Isaiah somehow recovers sooner then expected, puts up numeers just as dominant as last year and does so for the next 3-4
2. Cleveland trades Kevin Love and the Brooklyn 1st to the Pelicans for Anthony Davis
3. Cleveland, led by the amazing core of IT4/Crowder/Lebron/AD/TT defeat Golden State in the finals and Lebron gets his 4th ring
4. Lebron agrees to sign a super-max deal to remain in Cleveland for the next 5 years and remainder of his career
5. Cleveland goes on to forge a dynasty, winning championships in three of the next 5 seasons - Lebron retires with championship rings, overtaking Jordan and truly cementing his place on Jordan's level as a GOAT candidate
6. Kyrie (knock on wood) suffers constant injury issues with his feet/ankles/knees, never plays more than 50 game in a season for the next 2 seasons, and struggles to match the numbers he's been putting up in previous seasons - injuries also worsen his defence, which now drops off to "worst defender of all time" level
7. Hayward proves that his big season with Utah was purely a result of it being a contract year (and him being extra motivated) - goes on to drop back down to 18-19 PPG - 19 PPG over the duration of his time in Boston. Also goes on to prove that his apparent defensive improvements were only a result of him having Rudy Gobert covering his butt the last couple of years - defence takes a massive decline in Boston and he is exposed as being one of the worst defensive wings in the NBA
8. Al Horford declines again for the 3rd straight season, only this time the decline is far more severe. His numbers drop down to 10 points, 5 rebounds and 4 assists (in 29 MPG) with his percentages dropping to 43% / 29% / 75% - his mobility reduces significantly compared to last year, to the point where he struggles to switch on to power forwards and proves too slow to defend the P&R, with his overall defence reducing to just average.
9. Marcus Morris and his brother lose their lawsuit - both brothers end up gong to jail for several years for aggravated assault, and Morris' never gets to put on a Celtics Jersey
10. Jaylen Brown struggles to prove he is skilled enough to realise the potential people believe he has - after Ainge gives him a max extension, he ends up peaking as a slightly inferior version of Jae Crowder
11. Tatum disappoints - Ends up a weak defensive player who is too slow laterally to guards quick small forwards (or guards) and too weak in the lower body to guard strong small forwards (or PFs) - proves to only be able to defend fairly slow and weak small forwards with relative effectiveness. Rebounds poorly. Jumpshot disappears once he gets to the NBA level due to his struggles against the speed and length/strength of NBA opponents. Ends up proving too soft emotionally to deal with this, and hence peaks as a less athletic Jeff Green.
12. Marcus Smart gets signed to $15Mx4 - goes on to display one of the worst 3-5 year shooting spans ever recorded for an NBA guard, cements his reputation as one of the worst shooters ever to play the guard position in the NBA. Puts on weight due to Sully-like eating habits, develops the body of Raymond Felton and becomes too slow to defend NBA guards. NBA introduces a new rule in which players start to receive a technical foul for every flopping attempt. Marcus Smart ends up leading the NBA in technical fouls for 5 consecutive seasons. After his contract ends no NBA team signs him due to his flopping problems and inability to shoot the ball, so he leaves the NBA and builds a long and successfully career in Russia - where he goes on to thrive off his physicality and flopping skills.
13. Danny trades Terry Rozier (and the Lakers pick) to the 76ers for JJ Reddick - who then has a career ending injury after coming down on Zaza Pachilia's foot on a three point shot. After being given a starting role / minutes in Philly Rozier goes on to become an elite two-way PG, going on to average averaging 22 / 8 / 5 and making multiple all defensive teams. Fultz becomes an elite scorer at over 28 PPG. Rozier and Fultz combine to form one of the most dominant backcourts in NBA history while Embiid heals properly from his injury and becomes the best big man since Shaq. Simmons goes on to become the first player in NBA history to average a triple double 5 straight seasons - Philly meet Cleveland in the ECT for the next 4-5 years, with those two teams proving so dominant that nobody else comes close to sniffing a an ECF run
14. Danny Ainge gets fired, Brad Stevens leaves when his contract runs out (goes to Cleveland because he wanted to be reunited with Isaiah). The trade hurts Boston so much that the team gets sold - gets bought by some big offshore company who decides to relocate from Boston to Maine and merges the Celtics and Redclaws into a new team called the Celclaws - this kills all brand awareness, and the team goes on to become who suck horribly for the next 30 years.
If at least 2 or 3 things on that list occur, then maybe we find outselves in a place where we could make an argument (Knock on wood - I mean I'm actually knocking on wood now) that this could end up one of the worst trades in NBA History.
Failing that, the worst that we are likely to see from this is a trade where we gave up multiple assets (Crowder, Zizic and a good pick) in order to do a trade that ultimately proves to be a side-step. Even then the facts that Thomas is injured and Kyrie is younger still provides justification enough to make the trade worthwhile, and as a result there is realistically almost zero chance that this ever becomes "one of the worst trades in NBA history".
Awesome. And highly entertaining. TP for the time, creativity, and thought that went into this!
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Do I think Kyrie likes the idea of playing in Boston? Well, I think Kyrie would say that the question its self is part of the problem. We are all, as you know, relativistically positionless when moving with momentum. Similarly it is only when we have no momentum that our position becomes known to ourselves. And Kyrie as a man, and you should respect that, as a man he decided that his momentum was more important than his position, because being positionless is being weightless. It's also important to bring up Charlottesville and Houston. And Kyrie as a weightless man without position, and you should respect that, as a weightless man without position he understands that bringing up things that happened means you can't unbring them up and they've been broughten, which can change momentum or not at all. He also can say definitively that the pizza in Boston is better than he thought it would be and Brad Stevens seems nice.
(https://i.giphy.com/media/HwmB7t7krGnao/giphy.webp)