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Title: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: eja117 on August 25, 2017, 09:17:53 PM
I will never understand why on Earth coaches put incredibly important players in pre season games.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: eja117 on August 25, 2017, 09:30:47 PM
I think Wes Welker Julian Edelman Chris Hogan might have pro bowl year
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: mef730 on August 26, 2017, 10:56:17 AM
Aww $!#$

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20460082/new-england-patriots-wide-receiver-julian-edelman-carted-field-right-leg-injury

Mike
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Boris Badenov on August 26, 2017, 11:07:42 AM
I found myself thinking "no big deal, we are still stacked offensively...etc."

But this isn't the injury that will hurt. We aren't playing the Super Bowl next week. What it means is that when (not if) the next injuries come, we will have that much less depth to fill the voids.

Like, suppose Cooks pulls a hamstring and is out 6 weeks. Meanwhile, Gronk gets hurt (really going out on a limb there).

Then we head into the playoffs with a receiving corps that looks very thin. And as we've seen, if Brady only has one or two reliable targets, he can sometimes force things, and those guys get doubled. Life gets a lot harder.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on August 26, 2017, 01:01:03 PM
#*$&$*#$&(&

Worst Fears Confirmed. Edelman Tore His ACL. Out For Season.  :'(

You just knew with all the "19-0" talk and everything, something bad was going to happen  :(

Sucks for Jules and I know he's probably really upset about missing the season now too.

Going to need Gronk to stay healthy and dominate this year (though that's wishful thinking probably too with his injury history).
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: KG Living Legend on August 26, 2017, 01:18:52 PM
I think Wes Welker Julian Edelman Chris Hogan might have pro bowl year



 The Google news is that Chris A k a Hulk Hogan led the NFL with 17.8 yards per reception last year. Add that to Cook and that's a sick one, two combo. Just need Danny to stay healthy and Malcolm.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: eja117 on August 26, 2017, 01:29:06 PM
I hold out 1% hope that Edelman can make it back in time the same way Jerry Rice did in 1997 when he snapped his ACL first week of the season and made it back for week 16. That said he was probably on roids and he didn't play in the postseason (came back too soon).

But Edelman is 31 and might feel like he needs to come back. I can hope for 20 years of science improvements and 2 extra weeks of healing. I can hold out 1% hope.

I'm also holding out hope it's only partially torn because of how he walked off the field (limping and hopping) under his own power and didn't appear to be in too much pain

If any team can survive this it's the Pats. Austin Carr and Foster suddenly look like pretty good players
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: SparzWizard on September 02, 2017, 02:19:50 PM
Wow. Patriots traded Jacoby Brissett to the Colts for Phillip Dorsett. Crazy..
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: eja117 on September 02, 2017, 02:21:45 PM
Wow. Patriots traded Jacoby Brissett to the Colts for Phillip Dorsett. Crazy..
I love it
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: SparzWizard on September 02, 2017, 02:26:03 PM
Wow. Patriots traded Jacoby Brissett to the Colts for Phillip Dorsett. Crazy..
I love it

Two fastest WRs in the league in Cooks and Dorsett. Will be a nightmare for opposing defenses.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Amonkey on September 02, 2017, 02:29:40 PM
I was reading that they might use him more as a punt/kickoff returner.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on September 07, 2017, 11:17:02 AM
It's GAMEDAY!  8)

Lets Go Pats!

PREDICTION: Patriots WIN 27-20

I think the loss of Edelman will hurt a bit in the season and hurt a bit more in the 1st week as Cooks-Brady continue to grow chemistry, and I do think it will be close for much of this game, but Pats do just enough to get a hard-fought win over a legit AFC Playoff team.  ;D

Pats coaching staff will make the adjustments, and the defense will make the stops late to secure victory. Either that or Reid and Smith spend 8 minutes on a TD Drive to make it from a 2 possession to a 1 possession game, with just :30 seconds left to score another.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on September 07, 2017, 11:19:35 AM
LETSGOOOOOOOO!!!!  8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on September 07, 2017, 11:20:26 AM
Wow. Patriots traded Jacoby Brissett to the Colts for Phillip Dorsett. Crazy..
What the heck are the Colts doing?!
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Donoghus on September 07, 2017, 11:30:11 AM
Wow. Patriots traded Jacoby Brissett to the Colts for Phillip Dorsett. Crazy..
What the heck are the Colts doing?!

Trying to build up from the ashes of the Grigson disaster. 
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: green_bballers13 on September 07, 2017, 11:47:13 AM
Taking my talents down to Foxborough tonight for what should be a good game and great start to the season. KC can mix it up on D, so Tom should be seeing pressure early and often.

I imagine most on this site follow the Pats, but can anyone provide a perspective in which this team doesn't win 12 games and make it to the AFC championship in NE?

Normally there's one or two teams that can contend in the AFC, but I don't see it this year:

Oak-not yet
Pitt- nah
Tenn- not yet
Cincy- nah
Denver- nah
KC- nah
Houston- not yet
Balt- nah

I'm not saying that injuries/flukes can't happen, but from a prediction stand point, is there anyone even close?

I think the NFC can pose some challenges, esp ATL, GB, CAR, and SEA.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on September 07, 2017, 12:10:54 PM
Taking my talents down to Foxborough tonight for what should be a good game and great start to the season.
Don't forget to grab a towel from Portnoy ;)
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: jambr380 on September 07, 2017, 12:41:51 PM
Taking my talents down to Foxborough tonight for what should be a good game and great start to the season. KC can mix it up on D, so Tom should be seeing pressure early and often.

I imagine most on this site follow the Pats, but can anyone provide a perspective in which this team doesn't win 12 games and make it to the AFC championship in NE?

Normally there's one or two teams that can contend in the AFC, but I don't see it this year:

Oak-not yet
Pitt- nah
Tenn- not yet
Cincy- nah
Denver- nah
KC- nah
Houston- not yet
Balt- nah

I'm not saying that injuries/flukes can't happen, but from a prediction stand point, is there anyone even close?

I think the NFC can pose some challenges, esp ATL, GB, CAR, and SEA.

As always, it all hinges on #12.

The Edelman loss is a huge blow, but with Cooks, Dorsett, and a healthy Gronk, the offense is going to be insane. The Pats look so much better than any other team - I just don't know how Bill and staff keep doing it.

Have a great time at the game! We should come home with a W, but the beginning of the season can be difficult integrating new players/plays and KC is a tough opponent. Either way, I can't imagine a scenario where the Pats don't at least make it to the AFC Championship (which still isn't good enough!  >:( )
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: jambr380 on September 08, 2017, 12:05:15 AM
Man, what a disaster. Yes, injuries, but the team looked quite pedestrian out there with some very basic executions missed -  two 4th and inches, 6-yd loss on 2nd and goal at the 3-yd line, and of course the two blown coverages on bombs down field by Alex freakin' Smith.

The Pats defense looks like swiss cheese and Tom Brady was less than impressive with some surprising overthrows/misses.

It's not the end of the world and KC is a good team, but with such a seemingly strong start and so many penalties by KC, this should have been gone much differently.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on September 08, 2017, 12:06:44 AM
Well, it seems we'll at least be able to put the lid on the 19-0 nonsense early. Good.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on September 08, 2017, 12:14:33 AM
What a crappy game.

Never thought I'd see Alex Smith outplay Tom Brady.

Pats D was AWFUL. Couldn't stop Smith or the rookie RB Hunt. Could figure out how to stop the repeated use of the shovel pass. Horrible pass coverage deep.

Offense not much better. Horrible play calls, especially the stupid runs straight up the middle that went nowhere. No dumpoff passes to White or Lewis. Gronk hardly a factor.

And Amendola and Hightower get hurt.

From now on, the Pats should just forfeit any game vs. KC.

Now we've gotta wait 10 days to see if they can get their act together.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on September 08, 2017, 12:16:38 AM
Man, what a disaster. Yes, injuries, but the team looked quite pedestrian out there with some very basic executions missed -  two 4th and inches, 6-yd loss on 2nd and goal at the 3-yd line, and of course the two blown coverages on bombs down field by Alex freakin' Smith.

The Pats defense looks like swiss cheese and Tom Brady was less than impressive with some surprising overthrows/misses.

It's not the end of the world and KC is a good team, but with such a seemingly strong start and so many penalties by KC, this should have been gone much differently.

This what really kills me about this game. The offense scores a TD on its first possession, the defense recovers a fumble on its first possession ... and it was all downhill after that, despite the Chiefs trying to set a record for penalties.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: liam on September 08, 2017, 12:19:14 AM
What a crappy game.

Never thought I'd see Alex Smith outplay Tom Brady.

Pats D was AWFUL. Couldn't stop Smith or the rookie RB Hunt. Could figure out how to stop the repeated use of the shovel pass. Horrible pass coverage deep.

Offense not much better. Horrible play calls, especially the stupid runs straight up the middle that went nowhere. No dumpoff passes to White or Lewis. Gronk hardly a factor.

And Amendola and Hightower get hurt.

From now on, the Pats should just forfeit any game vs. KC.

Now we've gotta wait 10 days to see if they can get their act together.

Terrible play calls by The Pats in this game....
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on September 08, 2017, 12:20:47 AM
Well, it seems we'll at least be able to put the lid on the 19-0 nonsense early. Good.

Not sure if you're being facetious, but I'd agree that it's good to get it out of the way.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: SparzWizard on September 08, 2017, 01:15:54 AM
13+ penalties for the Chiefs and no Spencer Ware, Chiefs' best RB.

Patriots getting blown out in Foxboro. Andy Reid outcoaching Bill Belichick. Is it already time to throw in the towel?
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Sixth Man on September 08, 2017, 01:17:07 AM
As a lifelong Chiefs fan, I certainly enjoyed tonight's league opener.  See you guys again in the playoffs!   
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: footey on September 08, 2017, 01:53:39 AM
Best thing to happen to Pats with this undefeated nonsense.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on September 09, 2017, 05:50:48 PM
As much as I hope they bounce back, I really wouldn't be surprised if the Pats are 0-2 after next Sunday.

I trust they will improve and play overall a much better game.

But one, they are on the road.

TWO (and the biggest thing), if that's what Alex Smith did to our defense, then lord have mercy for what Drew Brees is about to do to our defense.  :o

Pats offense and TB12 going to have to score 35+ in what will likely be a high scoring affair.

Pats pass rush was a huge weakness coming into the season and it looks like it will be our achilles heel the whole year. And with Hightower now a bit banged up... WOOF.

But I don't blame Cassius Marsh at all for last week because lets be real, guy literally got traded to NE just 5 days before the game. Not like he's mastered the system and he wasn't even supposed to be in a high profile role that game, but Hightower went down so...
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on September 16, 2017, 08:26:15 PM
Won't be easy especially with all the injuries, but hopefully the Pats play much better than last Thursday and get their first win of the season tomorrow.

Drew Brees is a HOF QB and no doubt he will have a great game tomorrow, but the Saints defense is garbage and TB12 and the Pats offense NEEDS to take advantage.

I'm predicting a high-scoring affair with the Patriots winning 38-27.  8)

Pats defense will still look real shaky, and Brees will do very well especially with a lack of pass rush from NE, but I think the defense will do *just enough* and make the key stops when needed late.

Hoping Brandin Cooks has a huge game vs. his former team.

And I expect TB12 to rally the troops tomorrow like this:

(https://i.giphy.com/media/l0MYsHhzxfLsYfpPW/source.gif)
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on September 17, 2017, 08:18:27 PM
Won't be easy especially with all the injuries, but hopefully the Pats play much better than last Thursday and get their first win of the season tomorrow.

Drew Brees is a HOF QB and no doubt he will have a great game tomorrow, but the Saints defense is garbage and TB12 and the Pats offense NEEDS to take advantage.

I'm predicting a high-scoring affair with the Patriots winning 38-27.  8)

Pats defense will still look real shaky, and Brees will do very well especially with a lack of pass rush from NE, but I think the defense will do *just enough* and make the key stops when needed late.

Hoping Brandin Cooks has a huge game vs. his former team.

And I expect TB12 to rally the troops tomorrow like this:

(https://i.giphy.com/media/l0MYsHhzxfLsYfpPW/source.gif)

MOOD:

(https://i.giphy.com/media/FLy356kKpQp5S/giphy.webp)

But man the injuries are REALLY piling up now (and it's only Week 2)  :(
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Jon on September 17, 2017, 08:26:47 PM
So much for the warnings that Brady finally has his age catch up to him...
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on September 17, 2017, 08:47:19 PM
So much for the warnings that Brady finally has his age catch up to him...

Brady's definitely still got a lot of game in him, and we all know from experience that he can make an offense of practice-squad players look like dynamite, but the injury pace needs to slow down, or it will take its toll.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Ilikesports17 on September 17, 2017, 09:19:00 PM
Thought Wise, Jones and Dorsett looked terrific.

Fairly dissapointing from Solder, Gilmore and Cooks. However, Im not worried about any of those guys. Pretty confident they will figure it out.

Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on September 24, 2017, 03:44:54 PM
Just getting a chance to tune in here.  What the heck is happening, and why?!
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on September 24, 2017, 04:07:05 PM
Hal, the CB for Houston just lead with his helmet to break up a play.  Grabbed his leg and stayed down for a minute or two, then jogged off.  It looked like a concussion.  Tough to watch after hearing about the recent studies and Hernandez.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on September 24, 2017, 04:20:26 PM
Incredible.  Brady never ceases to amaze.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Ilikesports17 on September 24, 2017, 04:27:24 PM
Incredible.  Brady never ceases to amaze.
Hes special.

Wont ever see another player like him in all likelihood.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: mef730 on September 24, 2017, 04:31:51 PM
Wait, I've seen this one before. Brady marches them down the field with two minutes to go to win the game.

I wish that they would stop showing all of these re-runs on the weekends.

Mike
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Csfan1984 on September 24, 2017, 04:36:15 PM
Brady needs to retire already just not a fair game with him playing.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Neurotic Guy on September 24, 2017, 04:41:14 PM
Wait, I've seen this one before. Brady marches them down the field with two minutes to go to win the game.

I wish that they would stop showing all of these re-runs on the weekends.

Mike

Another heart-stopper.   Houston owned this one and really let it get away.  Pats had a lot of calls and breaks go their way today -- none bigger than Brady's fumble near the end falling right to Andrews.  Very fortunate to take this one.  Pats D needs to get quite a bit better.    Great job Brandon Cooks getting feet in and cradling the ball.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Bobshot on September 24, 2017, 04:44:50 PM
Another great win for the offense, but Belichick has to figure out what's wrong with the defense. Rookie QBs shouldn't be able to score that much against the SB Champions at home.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Bobshot on September 24, 2017, 04:46:29 PM
Brady needs to retire already just not a fair game with him playing.

 :laugh:Yeah, he has to retire. He has an unfair age advantage.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: mef730 on September 24, 2017, 04:49:20 PM
Tom Brady, the guy who is entirely unaffected by the heat because of the ice water running through his veins.

Mike
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on September 25, 2017, 10:08:49 AM
Another great win for the offense, but Belichick has to figure out what's wrong with the defense. Rookie QBs shouldn't be able to score that much against the SB Champions at home.

To be fair, 7 points came off that Brady fumble scooped up for a TD (bad O-Line play).

Defense wasn't great though, I agree, and the reason is because ZERO pass rush. It's no surprise our secondary gets tired fairly quick and as a result looks mediocre later in the game. Give ANY QB 10 seconds to throw per play and they will make you pay.

But glad they buckled down a little late and forced HOU into those FG's, which is what the Pats do best (give up a ton of yards and small plays but keep you out of the endzone).

Not too worried. Even in 2014-2015 it took the guys about 5-6 weeks to gel with Revis, Browner, ETC., and they were red hot in the 2nd half of the season into the playoffs. Malcolm Butler had a great game too, which is encouraging. Need Hightower back, he's the anchor to this defense.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on September 25, 2017, 10:10:09 AM
Deshaun Watson and Tom Brady having a moment after the game:

(https://scontent.fzty2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22045612_1553993311353594_5848881765491876120_n.jpg?oh=5f35450b7e244bab5e304fc8cc89d49c&oe=5A4AB771)

But in all seriousness, Watson played a helluva game. Pats defense couldn't bring him down and he made some great throws. He impressed me. Definitely could become a great QB in the league.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on September 25, 2017, 11:05:39 AM
Pats got absolutely lucky—lucky that they have Brady. Some other guys on offense made good plays, especially Cooks and Hogan, but ...

the Patriots defense is absolutely atrocious. Getting Hightower back will help, but not THAT much (nevermind the question of whether he'll be able to stay healthy the rest of the season, which is a big "if"). Pass rushing is an area in which Belichick has never placed a ton of emphasis, much to my dismay, and that seems unlikely to ever change. Malcolm Butler hasn't really been himself so far, and even Gillmore has been beaten badly a couple of times. Belichick and Patricia definitely have some puzzles to solve.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: PhoSita on September 25, 2017, 11:28:43 AM
1. The Pats will continue to get better over the course of the season, and the division looks as easy to win as ever.

2. The defense looks as bad as I can remember it looking, even considering how early it is in the season.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: PhoSita on October 01, 2017, 02:24:07 PM
Will somebody do me a favor and explain how the Pats went from a decent defense last year to maybe the worst defense in the league this year?

Im genuinely mystified.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Neurotic Guy on October 01, 2017, 02:27:36 PM
Will somebody do me a favor and explain how the Pats went from a decent defense last year to maybe the worst defense in the league this year?

Im genuinely mystified.

Absolutely unbelievable.  The defense on the last 2 Carolina receptions was jaw-dropping.  Teams scoring at will against Pats this season.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Ilikesports17 on October 01, 2017, 02:34:04 PM
Will somebody do me a favor and explain how the Pats went from a decent defense last year to maybe the worst defense in the league this year?

Im genuinely mystified.
A lot of the on-field leadership from last year (Hightower, Nink, Long) are gone and defense seems a bit lost. Thats my best explanation. They will figure it out.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Neurotic Guy on October 01, 2017, 02:36:32 PM
Will somebody do me a favor and explain how the Pats went from a decent defense last year to maybe the worst defense in the league this year?

Im genuinely mystified.
A lot of the on-field leadership from last year (Hightower, Nink, Long) are gone and defense seems a bit lost. Thats my best explanation. They will figure it out.

Looked like communication issues on both the TD and the previous play before the half.  Poor tackling has also cost them today. Getting confused on screens again. 
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Neurotic Guy on October 01, 2017, 02:42:53 PM
Hot knife through butter.   Panthers eating Pats defense for dinner.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Neurotic Guy on October 01, 2017, 02:46:08 PM
Fumble.  That's about all we could hope for. They look just horrible.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Neurotic Guy on October 01, 2017, 02:53:15 PM
I won't keep posting by myself -  I promise, but one last one...   Pats incredibly fortunate to pull out last week's game.  Pats will not be so lucky today if they can't score every time they have the ball.  The wide open miss by Brady on the last possession was big.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: CelticsElite on October 01, 2017, 03:47:52 PM
Tom Brady is the GOAT
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Neurotic Guy on October 01, 2017, 04:03:58 PM
Deserved to lose.   Defense is just horrible.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: jambr380 on October 01, 2017, 04:08:06 PM
Really troubling stuff out of the defense today, and this year. Not that it's an excuse, but somebody clearly has it out for Stephon Gilmore. Those two hands to the face penalties were very sketchy and came at literally the worst times.

Glad to see Brady is still Brady, but I would personally like to wipe the slate clean with the defense and see what Belichick/Patricia can put together, because this isn't working.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Dino Pitino on October 01, 2017, 04:11:07 PM
So much for 19-0, thank god we're in the AFC East and can still win the division starting 2-2. We've made every opposing quarterback look like an All Pro. To be fair, Cam is an MVP, Brees is a HOFer, Watson looks like the ROY, and Smith isn't a scrub. But still, the defense is just getting carved up.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on October 01, 2017, 07:47:40 PM
Welp. The only real positive going forward is knowing that in the 2014-2015 season, LOTS of changes were made on defense (many departures, and additions of Revis, Browner, ETC.), and they lost season opener, then lost 4th game of season and started 2-2, BEFORE going on to WINNING the Super Bowl. (They gelled together and communicated better since)

But man.. this defense just looks WAY WORSE than that 2014-2015 team though.

Stephon Gilmore occasionally makes good plays, but then gets burned and has penalties like that. YEESH.

But as bad as the secondary was, lets be real.. they are forced to cover receivers for almost 10 seconds every single play just b/c our pass rush is TRASH. I mean, notice how once the Pats FINALLY got pressure on Cam.. the Panthers drives stalled quickly (and almost stalled again before that BS Gilmore penalty).

Unfortunately that pressure from pass rush only seems to come in spurts and the remaining 3.5 quarters are spent seeing a QB take 10 seconds to burn our defense.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on October 01, 2017, 09:18:34 PM
Unless I'm mistaken, I thought the defense started out shaky last year and got progressively better throughout the season.  I remember being surprised late season... like they had gotta sneaky-good with time. 
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: green_bballers13 on October 01, 2017, 10:03:43 PM
Overreaction time. The Pats defense has looked bad this year, but Cam Newton should get credit. Deshaun Watson deserves credit, as does Drew Brees and Alex Smith. All four have looked good.

The best part of the defense looking bad is that it is early. They are 2-2 in the weakest division in football, so I'm not worried about their record yet.

They miss Ninkovich/Sheard/healthy Hightower. I think that Tom Brady will have to throw 4 TDs per win, which is asking a lot.

Luckily, he's Tom Brady.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on October 01, 2017, 10:15:38 PM
Welp. The only real positive going forward is knowing that in the 2014-2015 season, LOTS of changes were made on defense (many departures, and additions of Revis, Browner, ETC.), and they lost season opener, then lost 4th game of season and started 2-2, BEFORE going on to WINNING the Super Bowl. (They gelled together and communicated better since)

But man.. this defense just looks WAY WORSE than that 2014-2015 team though.

Stephon Gilmore occasionally makes good plays, but then gets burned and has penalties like that. YEESH.

But as bad as the secondary was, lets be real.. they are forced to cover receivers for almost 10 seconds every single play just b/c our pass rush is TRASH. I mean, notice how once the Pats FINALLY got pressure on Cam.. the Panthers drives stalled quickly (and almost stalled again before that BS Gilmore penalty).

Unfortunately that pressure from pass rush only seems to come in spurts and the remaining 3.5 quarters are spent seeing a QB take 10 seconds to burn our defense.

Yeah, they let Sheard and Long go elsewhere, then Ninkovich retired (which is on him, not the team, but it's still a factor), and Rivers got injured, so there's virtually no pass rush. But let's be real: the Belichick-era Pats have tended to put very little emphasis on pass rushing, ever. My impression is Belichick/Patricia just think it's not a big deal, which I strongly disagree with. I guess the D has been able to cover that in the past by being strong in all other areas of D, but that's not happening this season (so far).
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Ilikesports17 on October 01, 2017, 10:32:47 PM
Overreaction time. The Pats defense has looked bad this year, but Cam Newton should get credit. Deshaun Watson deserves credit, as does Drew Brees and Alex Smith. All four have looked good.

The best part of the defense looking bad is that it is early. They are 2-2 in the weakest division in football, so I'm not worried about their record yet.

They miss Ninkovich/Sheard/healthy Hightower. I think that Tom Brady will have to throw 4 TDs per win, which is asking a lot.

Luckily, he's Tom Brady.
not super sure I agree with the bolded. Cam Newton was very mediocre imo today. We just gave them everything.

Deshaun played pretty well but he really opened himself up to some huge mistakes, really risky running around with the ball making some dumbish decisions throwing on the run across the field etc. We just didnt make him pay.

Alex Smith is good, but we made him look like prime Peyton Manning. Hes a game manager. Thats on us.

Brees is a star, but his performance against us was much better than anyone else and he had a short week to prepare for us while we had a long one coming off Thursday night.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on October 01, 2017, 10:53:08 PM
Overreaction time. The Pats defense has looked bad this year, but Cam Newton should get credit. Deshaun Watson deserves credit, as does Drew Brees and Alex Smith. All four have looked good.

The best part of the defense looking bad is that it is early. They are 2-2 in the weakest division in football, so I'm not worried about their record yet.

They miss Ninkovich/Sheard/healthy Hightower. I think that Tom Brady will have to throw 4 TDs per win, which is asking a lot.

Luckily, he's Tom Brady.
not super sure I agree with the bolded. Cam Newton was very mediocre imo today. We just gave them everything.

Deshaun played pretty well but he really opened himself up to some huge mistakes, really risky running around with the ball making some dumbish decisions throwing on the run across the field etc. We just didnt make him pay.

Alex Smith is good, but we made him look like prime Peyton Manning. Hes a game manager. Thats on us.

Brees is a star, but his performance against us was much better than anyone else and he had a short week to prepare for us while we had a long one coming off Thursday night.

The Panthers offense, before today, had been pretty dismal, so I see this game as being mostly about NE's D being terrible, not Carolina's O being anything special. And Alex Smith should never look as good as he did against us, because he isn't that good, or anywhere close to it. Watson is dynamic and perhaps has a bright future, but NE helped him out a lot.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: PhoSita on October 02, 2017, 12:29:03 AM
Overreaction time. The Pats defense has looked bad this year, but Cam Newton should get credit. Deshaun Watson deserves credit, as does Drew Brees and Alex Smith. All four have looked good.

The best part of the defense looking bad is that it is early. They are 2-2 in the weakest division in football, so I'm not worried about their record yet.

They miss Ninkovich/Sheard/healthy Hightower. I think that Tom Brady will have to throw 4 TDs per win, which is asking a lot.

Luckily, he's Tom Brady.


Those guys are all decent QBs but they have looked like MVPs because the Pats' defense is completely hapless.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: SparzWizard on October 02, 2017, 02:24:42 AM
Overreaction time. The Pats defense has looked bad this year, but Cam Newton should get credit. Deshaun Watson deserves credit, as does Drew Brees and Alex Smith. All four have looked good.

The best part of the defense looking bad is that it is early. They are 2-2 in the weakest division in football, so I'm not worried about their record yet.

They miss Ninkovich/Sheard/healthy Hightower. I think that Tom Brady will have to throw 4 TDs per win, which is asking a lot.

Luckily, he's Tom Brady.

And if this defense doesn't fix itself soon...Jameis Winston, Josh McCown, Matt Ryan, Phillip Rivers, Trevor Siemian, and Derek Carr are each gonna look like Tom Brady the GOAT. They're coming up in the next 6 games.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on October 02, 2017, 10:12:16 AM
Unless I'm mistaken, I thought the defense started out shaky last year and got progressively better throughout the season.  I remember being surprised late season... like they had gotta sneaky-good with time.

Yeah as I said here:

Quote
Welp. The only real positive going forward is knowing that in the 2014-2015 season, LOTS of changes were made on defense (many departures, and additions of Revis, Browner, ETC.), and they lost season opener, then lost 4th game of season and started 2-2, BEFORE going on to WINNING the Super Bowl. (They gelled together and communicated better since)

Maybe it improves over time, and so does communication, and we forget about these past few weeks. But this will be no quick fix. Hopefully they take care of business and beat the Bucs and Jets. Now honestly if they lose one of the next 2, it could get real ugly, especially if defense still is bad after the Jets game (making McCown look like the GOAT).

I'm not saying this defense has to turn into 2013 Seahawks or 2015 Broncos, but at least play above average. Above average defense + TB12 offense = WINS and SUPER BOWL.

Unfortunately this defense might actually be the worst in the league statistically (truthfully, lucky to be 2-2 now and not 1-3).

It's also ironic how without TB12 last season first 4 games, the Pats went 3-1 LOL.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Donoghus on October 02, 2017, 10:16:40 AM
People keep harping on the defense but the offensive line has been very suspect this year.  Solder, especially.   Pats need to get that shored up or you might be seeing Jimmy G by Week 10.

A lot of the defensive stuff is communication based, IMO.  I think much of it can be fixed by coaching but those guys need to be able to pick up on it & identify stuff in real life.  They were getting killed with motion stuff yesterday.   Luckily, Pats are only at the quarter pole of the season.

Thank god Brady isn't playing like a 40 year old.  This team could be 1-3 right now, easily.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on October 02, 2017, 10:56:40 AM
People keep harping on the defense but the offensive line has been very suspect this year.  Solder, especially.   Pats need to get that shored up or you might be seeing Jimmy G by Week 10.

A lot of the defensive stuff is communication based, IMO.  I think much of it can be fixed by coaching but those guys need to be able to pick up on it & identify stuff in real life.  They were getting killed with motion stuff yesterday.   Luckily, Pats are only at the quarter pole of the season.

Thank god Brady isn't playing like a 40 year old.  This team could be 1-3 right now, easily.

My friend (also a Pats fan) thinks the Patriots could surprise the league and trade for EITHER Joe Thomas (Browns O-Lineman) or Larry Fitzgerald (so a BIG NAME).

Now you can say they don't need a WR now, but come on, if Gronk or Amendola get hurt long term (which is possible), they may need to with Edelman already out for the season and Mitchell likely out until Week 10.

But yeah Solder is getting manhandled a lot more this year than before. That's where a Joe Thomas becomes a possibility.

And I think the biggest issue is COMMUNICATION for the defense. Many times the Panthers would audible or shift and some guys were confused on who to cover and who the other guy was covering (perfect example - that Panthers 30 yard TD on the screen pass - NO patriots CB was even in the area as they BOTH went the other way, when in reality one guy had to stay in the area).

I still think PASS RUSH is the BIGGEST WEAKNESS, because this secondary will get roasted all season if you give the QB 10 seconds to throw every single pass. Notice how when the pressure finally got to Newton late, Carolina's drives stalled quickly. Even the final drive was a 3-and-out BEFORE that BS Gilmore penalty gave them the 1st. Ugh.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: PhoSita on October 06, 2017, 04:08:16 PM
Defense was a bit better last night, but they really should have given up 20 points.  The Pats won because the other team didn't have a kicker.

Still, only giving up 20 should be enough.  I'm not sure how long Brady can stay upright behind this offensive line.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on October 06, 2017, 04:15:26 PM
Defense was a bit better last night, but they really should have given up 20 points.  The Pats won because the other team didn't have a kicker.

Still, only giving up 20 should be enough.  I'm not sure how long Brady can stay upright behind this offensive line.

Far from perfect but agree, defense was a little better and that's at least encouraging.

Now they have 10 days between games. Bill and Patricia need to start working on making the adjustments and what not now.

Yesterday they played a lot more zone and conservative and fortunately it worked, but they only did it because they only had like 3 days to gameplan before Tampa (not enough time to fix an entire defense obviously LOL).

As for the O-Line.. yeah that's looking like a problem too. Solder especially is getting mauled out there and getting beat a ton. NOT GOOD.

Romo did think that Solder may be hurt and that he's battling it out, but it's still affecting his play (if that's true, then that's also not good).

Not saying blowout win, but I am confident they'll win vs. NYJ next Sunday, but right after that game... is Atlanta.. (YIKES)  :o
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on October 10, 2017, 08:45:42 PM
Tom Brady missed practice today (1st time this season) and apparently, he has an AC joint sprain in his left shoulder (non-throwing shoulder).

He's not expected to miss time, but I think it's okay to feel a little worried.

He's been getting hit and sacked A TON now, and the O-Line looks real sluggish so far (Nate Solder in particular, though Cannon hasn't looked great either). Solder may be injured, which is unfortunate.

Defense is a concern, but if the Pats should do anything at the deadline, they should probably also look for a legit guard/tackle to beef up the O-Line and protect Brady. (Yeah I'll say it, make the big trade for Joe Thomas! - yeah it's a pipe dream I know).

But man if this O-Line keeps playing like this, then lord have mercy for what guys like Von Miller and Khalil Mack are going to do when they play the Patriots later this season  :o

Ultimately I think we'll be fine, but this game vs. the Jets also looks like a freakin' trap game. Jets are off to a 3-2 start and Pats still trying to figure things out. Jets might be catching us at the right time and this is a ROAD game. Ideally hope the Pats win comfortably and quell many of our doubts, but I doubt it.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: green_bballers13 on October 10, 2017, 10:16:35 PM
I'm not worried about Tom's non-throwing shoulder. He has had shoulder issues throughout his career. I think he was on the medical report for around 10 years.

I'm more worried about the O-line continuing to let Brady get hit so frequently. This obv. increases the likelihood that his career will be shortened.

The Pats can shuffle in different defensive personnel. The one constant has been Brady.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: jambr380 on October 10, 2017, 10:27:37 PM
I'm not worried about Tom's non-throwing shoulder. He has had shoulder issues throughout his career. I think he was on the medical report for around 10 years.

I'm more worried about the O-line continuing to let Brady get hit so frequently. This obv. increases the likelihood that his career will be shortened.

The Pats can shuffle in different defensive personnel. The one constant has been Brady.

Yeah, I don't get it. Unless BB is trying to sabotage Brady's career so he can make a decision on Garoppolo, it doesn't make any sense to not put out the best offensive line possible (in spite of other high salaried players). I fully plan on Brady being the QB in NE for the next 5 seasons; the offensive line is foiling that plan.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on October 15, 2017, 12:18:26 PM
I know the Jets are 3-2 and Pats have lots of injuries (prayers out for Langi, and disappointed to suddenly hear Stephon Gilmore is out), but honestly, if they can't win today against the Jets, it might be time to really question if this team can even make the AFC Championship Game this year.

Might also get real ugly especially if the defense is the unit that struggles the most again (or O-Line too). By ugly, I mean lots of trades, yelling, etc. lol.

That being said, hope they win!  ;D
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: PhoSita on October 15, 2017, 01:17:46 PM
So ... when does Matt Patricia come back from vacation?
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: trickybilly on October 15, 2017, 01:35:58 PM
Rough luck here.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: A Future of Stevens on October 15, 2017, 02:08:05 PM
Trending in the right direction. Also I don't know how other teams stop Gronk. He's just not fair.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on October 15, 2017, 02:28:02 PM
So ... when does Matt Patricia come back from vacation?

A valid question. Wherever he is, he must have the worst ulcer in the world right about now.

Trending in the right direction. Also I don't know how other teams stop Gronk. He's just not fair.

On what are you basing this?
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on October 15, 2017, 02:41:23 PM
We have no business being in this game. Also, Gronk.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on October 15, 2017, 02:42:32 PM
Trending in the right direction. Also I don't know how other teams stop Gronk. He's just not fair.
PI and hope the refs swallow the flag.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Roy H. on October 15, 2017, 03:44:19 PM
That "fumble out of the end zone" was one of the most puzzling calls I've ever seen.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: BitterJim on October 15, 2017, 03:59:36 PM
That "fumble out of the end zone" was one of the most puzzling calls I've ever seen.

Yeah, that looks like a horrible call by the refs. I don't know how there was enough evidence to change that call
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Roy H. on October 15, 2017, 04:09:29 PM
That "fumble out of the end zone" was one of the most puzzling calls I've ever seen.

Yeah, that looks like a horrible call by the refs. I don't know how there was enough evidence to change that call

I hate seeing something like that tarnish a really competitive game.

Nice (if not encouraging) win for the Pats, but all the focus will be on the refs.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on October 15, 2017, 08:19:43 PM
That "fumble out of the end zone" was one of the most puzzling calls I've ever seen.

Yeah, that looks like a horrible call by the refs. I don't know how there was enough evidence to change that call

I hate seeing something like that tarnish a really competitive game.

Nice (if not encouraging) win for the Pats, but all the focus will be on the refs.

Yeah, I went to the bathroom thinking it was 24-21, came back and was SHOCKED to see NE with the ball still up 24-14...  :o

That was a bad overturn, and even if he juggled the ball, he clearly had possession as he hit the pylon. Should have been a TD.

Glad the Pats came back though (it was looking real ugly especially when Brady threw an INT already down 14-0), but honestly, while the defense has improved a bit, the offense has gotten shaky as well (although Offensive Line actually did decent today).

NEED to be healthy as possible for next week, otherwise a hungry ATL team seeking vengeance will absolutely STOMP the Pats.  :(

Also, Pats have allowed EVERY QB that's faced them to throw for over 300 yards, and pass rush is still NONEXISTENT, which means Matt Ryan could probably go for 500 yards lol... Hopefully TB12 and the offense can play better and keep up.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: PhoSita on October 15, 2017, 10:24:06 PM
Second week in a row that the score should have been tied or worse if not for totally avoidable errors or bad calls that went against the opponent.


Pats have just one convincing win on the season.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on October 15, 2017, 11:08:40 PM
I think there are plenty of reasons to be legitimately concerned about this Patriots team. No way this Jets team should've kept it that close.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on October 15, 2017, 11:18:31 PM
I think there are plenty of reasons to be legitimately concerned about this Patriots team. No way this Jets team should've kept it that close.

OFF TOPIC: Giants beating Broncos on the road 20-3 LOL.

I guess the Pats should feel a bit fortunate the AFC is fairly wide open still. OAK is 2-4, PIT and HOU are inconsistent, now DEN look real iffy on offense. KC still the best of AFC now but today proves they aren't "invincible" either.

Regardless, Pats still need to improve and BB has to make some trades and find upgrades in certain areas the coming few weeks (preferably at Offensive Tackle and a pass rusher).

But the way they have played so far... ATL will stomp them next week. Only positive is that MIA and BUF have beaten them so I guess there's hope for us lol?
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on October 15, 2017, 11:41:37 PM
I think there are plenty of reasons to be legitimately concerned about this Patriots team. No way this Jets team should've kept it that close.

OFF TOPIC: Giants beating Broncos on the road 20-3 LOL.

I guess the Pats should feel a bit fortunate the AFC is fairly wide open still. OAK is 2-4, PIT and HOU are inconsistent, now DEN look real iffy on offense. KC still the best of AFC now but today proves they aren't "invincible" either.

Regardless, Pats still need to improve and BB has to make some trades and find upgrades in certain areas the coming few weeks (preferably at Offensive Tackle and a pass rusher).

But the way they have played so far... ATL will stomp them next week. Only positive is that MIA and BUF have beaten them so I guess there's hope for us lol?

To me, KC seems like the team that is always a "contender" but never really is. And ATL really seems off kilter right now, losing to MIA today, and Ryan has been pretty bad the whole season (he's on my fantasy team, unfortunately). But regardless of other teams, yes, NE certainly has some big weaknesses to improve upon.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Fan from VT on October 15, 2017, 11:42:37 PM
That "fumble out of the end zone" was one of the most puzzling calls I've ever seen.

Yeah, that looks like a horrible call by the refs. I don't know how there was enough evidence to change that call

I hate seeing something like that tarnish a really competitive game.

Nice (if not encouraging) win for the Pats, but all the focus will be on the refs.

Fortunately it was the right call:

http://www.footballzebras.com/2017/10/15/jets-lose-touchdown-ball-tight-replay-reversal/


Quote
Seferian-Jenkins bobbles the ball at the 1-yard line and subsequently re-controls the ball. The bobble makes the ball a “loose ball” under the rules. Any loose ball (which includes passes) follows the catch process to establish possession. It may seem like an arbitrary designation, but this is a clear way to bookend loose ball calls by keeping all loose balls consistent, no matter how they occur. Seferian-Jenkins is going to the ground as he regains control of the ball, and lands out of bounds in the end zone. This takes the ball, still considered loose, out of bounds in the end zone, which is a touchback and loss of possession.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Ogaju on October 22, 2017, 09:18:36 PM
A great new wrinkle introduced to FB by the patriots .... the touch pass.

Gronk leading Cook into the endzone gave a clear indication how big some of these football players are.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: jambr380 on October 22, 2017, 10:12:54 PM
A great new wrinkle introduced to FB by the patriots .... the touch pass.

Gronk leading Cook into the endzone gave a clear indication how big some of these football players are.

I think it was just Brady making up for all of those Gillislee rushing tds from week 1.  ;)

So far so good for the NE offense (after a REAL tough start with penalties) and especially the defense. Hopefully they stay aggressive.

EDIT: btw, what is up with the fog? It is almost unwatchable from the normal side camera angle.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on October 23, 2017, 07:30:19 AM
A great new wrinkle introduced to FB by the patriots .... the touch pass.

Gronk leading Cook into the endzone gave a clear indication how big some of these football players are.

I think it was just Brady making up for all of those Gillislee rushing tds from week 1.  ;)

So far so good for the NE offense (after a REAL tough start with penalties) and especially the defense. Hopefully they stay aggressive.

EDIT: btw, what is up with the fog? It is almost unwatchable from the normal side camera angle.
That OPI on Gronk was weak. The refs weren't having a good day.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: green_bballers13 on October 23, 2017, 07:56:50 AM
Classic overreactions from the national media after the Houston/KC losses. The defense looked terrible, but year after year, Belichick figures out how to improve the unit as the season goes on.

Now, will they overreact and say that the Pats are the clear #1's? I don't think so....

The hate against the Patriots is strong.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: jambr380 on October 23, 2017, 08:17:11 AM
A great new wrinkle introduced to FB by the patriots .... the touch pass.

Gronk leading Cook into the endzone gave a clear indication how big some of these football players are.

I think it was just Brady making up for all of those Gillislee rushing tds from week 1.  ;)

So far so good for the NE offense (after a REAL tough start with penalties) and especially the defense. Hopefully they stay aggressive.

EDIT: btw, what is up with the fog? It is almost unwatchable from the normal side camera angle.
That OPI on Gronk was weak. The refs weren't having a good day.

That diving catch was so good, too. It was a shame it was called back.

Nice statement game by the Pats; that last td by ATL was just a pity td. There are still things to work on, but I feel a little more comfortable moving forward.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Ilikesports17 on October 23, 2017, 10:03:06 AM
Classic overreactions from the national media after the Houston/KC losses. The defense looked terrible, but year after year, Belichick figures out how to improve the unit as the season goes on.

Now, will they overreact and say that the Pats are the clear #1's? I don't think so....

The hate against the Patriots is strong.
We beat Houston
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Fan from VT on October 23, 2017, 11:01:10 AM
A great new wrinkle introduced to FB by the patriots .... the touch pass.

Gronk leading Cook into the endzone gave a clear indication how big some of these football players are.

I think it was just Brady making up for all of those Gillislee rushing tds from week 1.  ;)

So far so good for the NE offense (after a REAL tough start with penalties) and especially the defense. Hopefully they stay aggressive.

EDIT: btw, what is up with the fog? It is almost unwatchable from the normal side camera angle.
That OPI on Gronk was weak. The refs weren't having a good day.

That diving catch was so good, too. It was a shame it was called back.

Nice statement game by the Pats; that last td by ATL was just a pity td. There are still things to work on, but I feel a little more comfortable moving forward.

I try to avoid falling into the persecution/homer ref trap, but the amount of OPI that Gronk gets is ridiculous. So many receivers do exactly what he does.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Fan from VT on October 23, 2017, 11:05:40 AM
What a weird season, too.

Atlanta comes out, beats Chicago on the road, then beats Green Bay with Rodgers and Lions in detroit. Then lose 3 straight. Pats, who looked awful against a very good KC team, Barely beats Tampa due to Tampa's kicker just failing, barely beats the Jets, and loses to a Carolina team that looked good but which then scores 3 points in a loss to Chicago! But they beat the resurgent Watson led Houston, beat the suddenly good looking Saints in New Orleans, and dominate Atlanta.

So strange.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: A Future of Stevens on October 23, 2017, 11:18:01 AM
I think the combination of our defense playing better than they have been, and Atlanta having an extremely off night is what led to last night's performance. Our defense needs to continue taking positive steps. I can't wait to see what a healthy defense looks like.

I was particularly impressed with the play of Bademosi and Van Noy. Bademosi is making a case to be part of the regular defensive back rotation even when Gilmore and Rowe come back. Van Noy has looked great since Hightower came back. Our defense should be decent short of our front line. Hightower/Van Noy/ Butler/Gilmore/Rowe/McCourty are very Good. Heck even throw David Harris against the primary run based teams.

And our offense speaks for itself. Imagine we had edelman? Oh boy.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Donoghus on October 23, 2017, 11:18:03 AM
What a weird season, too.

Atlanta comes out, beats Chicago on the road, then beats Green Bay with Rodgers and Lions in detroit. Then lose 3 straight. Pats, who looked awful against a very good KC team, Barely beats Tampa due to Tampa's kicker just failing, barely beats the Jets, and loses to a Carolina team that looked good but which then scores 3 points in a loss to Chicago! But they beat the resurgent Watson led Houston, beat the suddenly good looking Saints in New Orleans, and dominate Atlanta.

So strange.

Really weird season.   I think there is separation in the AFC with KC/PIT/NE in some order at the top then a bunch of team below them.  The NFC is anyone's guess right now.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: A Future of Stevens on October 23, 2017, 11:22:37 AM
What a weird season, too.

Atlanta comes out, beats Chicago on the road, then beats Green Bay with Rodgers and Lions in detroit. Then lose 3 straight. Pats, who looked awful against a very good KC team, Barely beats Tampa due to Tampa's kicker just failing, barely beats the Jets, and loses to a Carolina team that looked good but which then scores 3 points in a loss to Chicago! But they beat the resurgent Watson led Houston, beat the suddenly good looking Saints in New Orleans, and dominate Atlanta.

So strange.

Really weird season.   I think there is separation in the AFC with KC/PIT/NE in some order at the top then a bunch of team below them.  The NFC is anyone's guess right now.

I keep wanting to put the raiders in that conversation, but then they do something to give me pause. Pit scares me the most out of the top teams. Their defense looks very good. Plus they have the best WR and the best RB in the NFL. If it weren't for Big Bens penchant to make a random bad decision here and there, they could be truly elite.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: PhoSita on October 23, 2017, 11:35:14 AM
Is parity fun or is parity boring?

I think I like to know which teams are good and which teams are bad, not this NFL situation where it seems to shift each week.

That said, I don't like it when there are only a couple teams that everybody knows are going to end up playing in the final (e.g. NBA the last few years).


I would say the best situation for a league is when it feels like every team has a chance to build a contender if they play their cards right and build a stable, healthy institutional culture, and there are at least 5-6 really good teams with a theoretical shot at going all the way in any given season.


Anyway, that's all to say -- no idea what's going on with the NFL, seems like a bunch of mediocre teams that could win or lose in any given week.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on October 26, 2017, 09:37:04 AM
Hightower is done for the season with a torn pectoral.  Horrible news. 
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: trickybilly on October 26, 2017, 09:48:14 AM
Is parity fun or is parity boring?

I think I like to know which teams are good and which teams are bad, not this NFL situation where it seems to shift each week.

That said, I don't like it when there are only a couple teams that everybody knows are going to end up playing in the final (e.g. NBA the last few years).


I would say the best situation for a league is when it feels like every team has a chance to build a contender if they play their cards right and build a stable, healthy institutional culture, and there are at least 5-6 really good teams with a theoretical shot at going all the way in any given season.


Anyway, that's all to say -- no idea what's going on with the NFL, seems like a bunch of mediocre teams that could win or lose in any given week.

Agree completely.. I was tuning in to watch this al-kyrie-hayward curiosity museum.  I will keep watching given this Tatum, Brown situation that seems to be happening.. I have no idea how a Portland,  Memphis, Miami, Pistons, even Toronto fan cares. Go watch the leafs...
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on October 26, 2017, 09:59:45 AM
Hightower is done for the season with a torn pectoral.  Horrible news.
Do we even know who's lining up as LB on Sunday?
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Donoghus on October 26, 2017, 10:21:34 AM
Hightower is done for the season with a torn pectoral.  Horrible news.
Do we even know who's lining up as LB on Sunday?

David Harris, whether you like it or not, would seem to be the likely candidate.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on October 26, 2017, 10:23:05 AM
Hightower is done for the season with a torn pectoral.  Horrible news.
Do we even know who's lining up as LB on Sunday?

David Harris, whether you like it or not, would seem to be the likely candidate.
Seems to be the only candidate.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Ilikesports17 on October 26, 2017, 11:16:17 AM
oof.

By far the most irreplaceable guy on our defense.

Massive blow to superbowl hopes. Id say hes our second most important player behind Brady.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: PhoSita on October 26, 2017, 12:27:31 PM
At least this news came prior to the trade deadline, so maybe they can make a move.


Also, every team in the AFC has a major flaw, so the Pats can still hope to win a playoff game or two despite having a completely depleted defense.


I'm still expecting the Pats to go 6-0 or 5-1 against the AFC East, which should be enough to get them a home playoff game, perhaps even a bye.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on October 26, 2017, 01:01:37 PM
Hightower hadn't played a full season since his second year so in a way you knew it was coming. Missing 11 games + all of the playoffs seems somewhat excessive though.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on October 26, 2017, 03:24:27 PM
Just when you thought this season couldn't get even wilder. UGH.  :'(

This seems like it's been an issue for a while according to reports, BUT how is it that 36 hours ago everything looked "okay" for Hightower, then it goes to "he misses practice, may be out a few days", to "oh, welp I guess he's gone for the season.." (all in a span of like 24-36 hours) ???
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on October 26, 2017, 03:28:39 PM
Hightower hadn't played a full season since his second year so in a way you knew it was coming. Missing 11 games + all of the playoffs seems somewhat excessive though.

He's the team's defensive version of Gronk (in skill and in injuries).

Just when you thought this season couldn't get even wilder. UGH.  :'(

This seems like it's been an issue for a while according to reports, BUT how is it that 36 hours ago everything looked "okay" for Hightower, then it goes to "he misses practice, may be out a few days", to "oh, welp I guess he's gone for the season.." (all in a span of like 24-36 hours) ???


Reminds me, unfortunately, of how the situation with KG's knee went down.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on October 26, 2017, 03:51:57 PM
This seems like it's been an issue for a while according to reports, BUT how is it that 36 hours ago everything looked "okay" for Hightower, then it goes to "he misses practice, may be out a few days", to "oh, welp I guess he's gone for the season.." (all in a span of like 24-36 hours) ???
Given how quickly they ruled him out for Sunday, I had no doubt this was bad. The Patriots never rule out players on Tuesday unless it's a blatantly obvious situation.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on October 29, 2017, 03:32:48 PM
I no longer have any idea what pass interference is in this league.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: nickagneta on October 29, 2017, 04:28:09 PM
I no longer have any idea what pass interference is in this league.
Agree. No consistency whatsoever. Its like traveling in the NBA.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on October 29, 2017, 04:44:27 PM
.. also, it's apparently not an infraction to spear someone with your helmet, break their shoulder, and almost snap your neck in the process. The NFL is the worst.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on October 30, 2017, 11:54:35 AM
Curious to see what the Pats do at the trade deadline (tomorrow 4 PM EST).

Not expecting anything big but they definitely could use another LB (not much depth there) and a TE (since D. Allen has been unproductive... 0 catches so far this season??  ??? ). Trading for Eric Ebron could help us a bit at TE. Steal another Lion like we did Kyle Van Noy and Bademosi lol.

O-Line looks better now (not as glaring a need given other, bigger needs) and they could really use either a pass rusher/linebacker.

Might not solve all their problems but ultimately some of the guys on the team currently have to step up as well now. 
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on October 30, 2017, 11:57:39 AM
We have more needs that we can count now. Cannon couldn't finish the game yesterday. Hogan looks like he might be out for a while and he has been the most reliable receive this season. The LB corps is a mess.

I'd love it if someone stepped up, but we're simply running out of warm bodies right now.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on October 30, 2017, 08:25:41 PM
WOW WHAT??!??

Pats traded away Garoppolo to San Francisco for a 2018 2nd round pick  :o  ???
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on October 30, 2017, 08:27:12 PM
WOW WHAT??!??

Pats traded away Garoppolo to San Francisco for a 2018 2nd round pick  :o  ???
Um what?
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: gouki88 on October 30, 2017, 08:29:27 PM
WOW WHAT??!??

Pats traded away Garoppolo to San Francisco for a 2018 2nd round pick  :o  ???
Um what?
https://sports.yahoo.com/report-patriots-trade-jimmy-garoppolo-002451177.html
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on October 30, 2017, 08:31:09 PM
WOW WHAT??!??

Pats traded away Garoppolo to San Francisco for a 2018 2nd round pick  :o  ???
Um what?
https://sports.yahoo.com/report-patriots-trade-jimmy-garoppolo-002451177.html
Yes, Google can help with finding that. What it can't help with is making sense of it.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on October 31, 2017, 09:34:35 PM
So basically... Pats trade away JG10 and then stay pat??  ???

Meanwhile Buffalo (division rival) just traded for Kelvin Benjamin and the contending Eagles got Jay Ajayi (for peanuts).

Have to admit I feel let down.  :(
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: mef730 on November 09, 2017, 06:01:36 PM
Welcome back Martellus Bennett!

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21354470/new-england-patriots-claim-veteran-tight-end-martellus-bennett-waivers

Mike
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: A Future of Stevens on November 09, 2017, 06:06:33 PM
Welcome back Martellus Bennett!

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21354470/new-england-patriots-claim-veteran-tight-end-martellus-bennett-waivers

Mike

I saw he was released today, and was wondering if the pats would make a move. This is awesome for our offense.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: nickagneta on November 09, 2017, 06:08:45 PM
Welcome back Martellus Bennett!

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21354470/new-england-patriots-claim-veteran-tight-end-martellus-bennett-waivers

Mike

I saw he was released today, and was wondering if the pats would make a move. This is awesome for our offense.
He has an injury. Who knows when he will be ready to play.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on November 09, 2017, 07:05:29 PM
Welcome back Martellus Bennett!

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21354470/new-england-patriots-claim-veteran-tight-end-martellus-bennett-waivers

Mike

I saw he was released today, and was wondering if the pats would make a move. This is awesome for our offense.
He has an injury. Who knows when he will be ready to play.
The internetz are bubbling with speculations that he's faking that because he decided to mail it in after Rodgers went down. He's an odd cat so who knows.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Ilikesports17 on November 09, 2017, 07:24:41 PM
Welcome back Martellus Bennett!

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21354470/new-england-patriots-claim-veteran-tight-end-martellus-bennett-waivers

Mike

I saw he was released today, and was wondering if the pats would make a move. This is awesome for our offense.
He has an injury. Who knows when he will be ready to play.
The internetz are bubbling with speculations that he's faking that because he decided to mail it in after Rodgers went down. He's an odd cat so who knows.
Holy cow, that really would be Blount pt. 2
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on November 10, 2017, 12:03:21 AM
Welcome back Martellus Bennett!

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21354470/new-england-patriots-claim-veteran-tight-end-martellus-bennett-waivers

Mike

Can't wait to see him dancing with the cheerleaders again after this year's AFC Champ. Game!  8)  :laugh:

(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-xFKfm7czY4s/WIZMXv5BwkI/AAAAAAAASFc/6r2AskvEKGoU5mOu5aVQkNCMStbEH61vQCLcB/s1600/1.gif)

Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: nickagneta on November 10, 2017, 11:25:43 AM
Reports are Bennett might have a torn rotator cuff and need to be put on IR.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: BitterJim on November 10, 2017, 11:47:03 AM
Reports are Bennett might have a torn rotator cuff and need to be put on IR.

I could buy the rotator cuff part, but not the need to be put on IR.  If that were the case, the Pats wouldn't have claimed him (or would have changed their mind after his physical).  No way Bill would get him just to put him on IR if he plans on retiring after this year

It seems to me that he'll miss some time and be good to go by the playoffs, or he'll play hurt for the rest of the year.  I guess we'll have to wait and see.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Donoghus on November 10, 2017, 11:49:29 AM
Apparently, he's practicing today.

Quote
Adam Schefter‏Verified account
@AdamSchefter
2m2 minutes ago
More
Martellus Bennett is present at Patriots’ practice, per @MikeReiss, which reflectshe passed his physical with the team.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Neurotic Guy on November 19, 2017, 05:24:50 PM
Nice half so far for the Pats.   

Glanced over at the Chargers-Bills box score -- four 1st half interceptions by the Bills rookie Peterman.....   And now a lost fumble.

Now it's 5 interceptions in the 1st half.  Got to be a record.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: nickagneta on November 19, 2017, 06:33:00 PM
Nice half so far for the Pats.   

Glanced over at the Chargers-Bills box score -- four 1st half interceptions by the Bills rookie Peterman.....   And now a lost fumble.

Now it's 5 interceptions in the 1st half.  Got to be a record.
Benching Tyrod Taylor looks like a compete buffoon of a move right now
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: jambr380 on November 19, 2017, 07:37:37 PM
Nice half so far for the Pats.   

Glanced over at the Chargers-Bills box score -- four 1st half interceptions by the Bills rookie Peterman.....   And now a lost fumble.

Now it's 5 interceptions in the 1st half.  Got to be a record.
Benching Tyrod Taylor looks like a compete buffoon of a move right now

I remember hearing the news earlier this week and couldn't make sense of it. You don't replace a QB of a 'winning' team with a 5th round rookie unless he looks like the 2nd coming of Tom Brady...even then, Brady didn't get the nod until his 2nd year. Terrible, inept decision. I actually feel bad for Peterman - not his fault.

On a Pats note - it sure is nice to keep on cruisin' through the schedule. Let's hope we stay hot all the way through the SB. Brady sure looks like a top notch MVP right now!
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Jiri Welsch on November 19, 2017, 09:15:03 PM
Focus moving forward: No. 1 seed and health
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on November 19, 2017, 09:27:29 PM
Focus moving forward: No. 1 seed and health

Absolutely, especially the "health" part.

The Week 15 game between NE-PIT could probably be the game that decides who is the 1 seed (Home Field Advantage) and who is the 2 seed.

What's impressed me though is that these past few weeks were the ones that truly worried me heading into the season (start of a grueling road trip, with road game @Brady's House of Horror in Denver, then a tough game vs. OAK at Mexico in that altitude), and yet the Pats won both games easily and in blowout fashion lol.

5 games vs. AFC East teams, and 1 vs. Pittsburgh remain.

I could see us finishing 13-3 to be honest, question is, will PIT finish 13-3 or better/worse than that? (And who wins that Week 15 match up between the two teams)
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: nickagneta on November 19, 2017, 09:39:47 PM
17-2 Baby...6 time Superbowl Champs. Brady regular season MVP and 5 time SB MVP. Book it.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: jambr380 on November 19, 2017, 09:43:14 PM
17-2 Baby...6 time Superbowl Champs. Brady regular season MVP and 5 time SB MVP. Book it.

It'll be interesting to see what excuse is given when Brady loses out on yet another regular season MVP. For him to only have two is pretty ridiculous.

But, yeah, I am very happy for the rest of your prediction to come true. If only stupid Deion Branch didn't steal that one SB MVP...jerk  :P
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: SparzWizard on November 19, 2017, 09:44:43 PM
Focus moving forward: No. 1 seed and health

Absolutely, especially the "health" part.

The Week 15 game between NE-PIT could probably be the game that decides who is the 1 seed (Home Field Advantage) and who is the 2 seed.

What's impressed me though is that these past few weeks were the ones that truly worried me heading into the season (start of a grueling road trip, with road game @Brady's House of Horror in Denver, then a tough game vs. OAK at Mexico in that altitude), and yet the Pats won both games easily and in blowout fashion lol.

5 games vs. AFC East teams, and 1 vs. Pittsburgh remain.

I could see us finishing 13-3 to be honest, question is, will PIT finish 13-3 or better/worse than that? (And who wins that Week 15 match up between the two teams)

Pittsburgh been hot and their defense has improved, so I think they inflict an "L" on us. I think we're 13-3 or 12-4. Can see us losing to Pittsburgh and maybe the Jets (if BB decides to rest players).
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on November 20, 2017, 12:27:14 PM
Focus moving forward: No. 1 seed and health

Absolutely, especially the "health" part.

The Week 15 game between NE-PIT could probably be the game that decides who is the 1 seed (Home Field Advantage) and who is the 2 seed.

What's impressed me though is that these past few weeks were the ones that truly worried me heading into the season (start of a grueling road trip, with road game @Brady's House of Horror in Denver, then a tough game vs. OAK at Mexico in that altitude), and yet the Pats won both games easily and in blowout fashion lol.

5 games vs. AFC East teams, and 1 vs. Pittsburgh remain.

I could see us finishing 13-3 to be honest, question is, will PIT finish 13-3 or better/worse than that? (And who wins that Week 15 match up between the two teams)

Pittsburgh been hot and their defense has improved, so I think they inflict an "L" on us. I think we're 13-3 or 12-4. Can see us losing to Pittsburgh and maybe the Jets (if BB decides to rest players).

That's fine, lose to them Week 15, beat them in the playoffs in a revenge game.  ;D
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on November 26, 2017, 08:11:06 PM
Wow, the Patriots played one of their sloppiest games of the season... and still put up 35 points en route to a big 35-17 win.  :o  8)

Jaguars lost and are now 7-4, so I think it's safe to say that Pittsburgh and New England (both with just 2 losses at the moment) will both get first round byes in the AFC. Now it's just the question of who is 1 seed, 2 seed (which could be decided week 15 when both teams play each other @Heinz Field).

Injuries are a REAL concern though. Had a lot today and Brady took some vicious hits  :(

Hoping we can stay as healthy as possible and get back as many guys as possible as the playoffs near at least. I'm worried because we play Miami again in just 2 weeks on the road and those guys will definitely want to make a statement again with their physicality. And O-Line needs to do better, though it's hard with Andrews and Cannon out and having replacements take over for the time being.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: eja117 on December 03, 2017, 03:42:23 PM
Another game Belichick is leaving Brady and Gronk and various other guys in there way way too long because he either doesn't have confidence in Hoyer or his defense or both. I wish just one journalist or reporter had the guts to call him on it but none of them do.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: nickagneta on December 03, 2017, 03:46:48 PM
Another game Belichick is leaving Brady and Gronk and various other guys in there way way too long because he either doesn't have confidence in Hoyer or his defense or both. I wish just one journalist or reporter had the guts to call him on it but none of them do.
Someone called him for it last week and Belichick shut them down pretty quick. He wasn't nice about it either.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: eja117 on December 03, 2017, 03:53:46 PM
Another game Belichick is leaving Brady and Gronk and various other guys in there way way too long because he either doesn't have confidence in Hoyer or his defense or both. I wish just one journalist or reporter had the guts to call him on it but none of them do.
Someone called him for it last week and Belichick shut them down pretty quick. He wasn't nice about it either.
He had cop out answers and someone should say that to his face. "Tell me the play he'll get hurt on."  What a stupid thing to say. And this from the guy who routinely holds players out of preseason games and has had plenty of seasons ruined by injuries.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: nickagneta on December 03, 2017, 03:58:01 PM
Another game Belichick is leaving Brady and Gronk and various other guys in there way way too long because he either doesn't have confidence in Hoyer or his defense or both. I wish just one journalist or reporter had the guts to call him on it but none of them do.
Someone called him for it last week and Belichick shut them down pretty quick. He wasn't nice about it either.
He had cop out answers and someone should say that to his face. "Tell me the play he'll get hurt on."  What a stupid thing to say. And this from the guy who routinely holds players out of preseason games and has had plenty of seasons ruined by injuries.
Belichick has had a bunch of seasons ruined by injury? They have been to 11 AFC championships, 7 Superbowls and won 5 Superbowls. Kinda hard to say he had too many seasons ruined by injury.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: eja117 on December 03, 2017, 04:02:30 PM
Another game Belichick is leaving Brady and Gronk and various other guys in there way way too long because he either doesn't have confidence in Hoyer or his defense or both. I wish just one journalist or reporter had the guts to call him on it but none of them do.
Someone called him for it last week and Belichick shut them down pretty quick. He wasn't nice about it either.
He had cop out answers and someone should say that to his face. "Tell me the play he'll get hurt on."  What a stupid thing to say. And this from the guy who routinely holds players out of preseason games and has had plenty of seasons ruined by injuries.
Belichick has had a bunch of seasons ruined by injury? They have been to 11 AFC championships, 7 Superbowls and won 5 Superbowls. Kinda hard to say he had too many seasons ruined by injury.
Well there were the Gronk arm seasons. There was the Brady ACL season.  This season things don't look great on the injury front.

By "ruined"  I mean there was an opportunity to do better there.

Did those seasons get ruined by leaving guys in too long? I don't think so. But there have definitely been seasons where injuries played a significantly negative part
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Ilikesports17 on December 03, 2017, 04:08:09 PM
Another game Belichick is leaving Brady and Gronk and various other guys in there way way too long because he either doesn't have confidence in Hoyer or his defense or both. I wish just one journalist or reporter had the guts to call him on it but none of them do.
Im gonna go ahead and trust Bill here.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: eja117 on December 03, 2017, 04:29:02 PM
Another game Belichick is leaving Brady and Gronk and various other guys in there way way too long because he either doesn't have confidence in Hoyer or his defense or both. I wish just one journalist or reporter had the guts to call him on it but none of them do.
Im gonna go ahead and trust Bill here.
He's not perfect. He's actually a human being. He makes mistakes. It's ok to recognize that. I would have trusted Hoyer and the defense.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: nickagneta on December 03, 2017, 04:39:17 PM
Another game Belichick is leaving Brady and Gronk and various other guys in there way way too long because he either doesn't have confidence in Hoyer or his defense or both. I wish just one journalist or reporter had the guts to call him on it but none of them do.
Someone called him for it last week and Belichick shut them down pretty quick. He wasn't nice about it either.
He had cop out answers and someone should say that to his face. "Tell me the play he'll get hurt on."  What a stupid thing to say. And this from the guy who routinely holds players out of preseason games and has had plenty of seasons ruined by injuries.
Belichick has had a bunch of seasons ruined by injury? They have been to 11 AFC championships, 7 Superbowls and won 5 Superbowls. Kinda hard to say he had too many seasons ruined by injury.
Well there were the Gronk arm seasons. There was the Brady ACL season.  This season things don't look great on the injury front.

By "ruined"  I mean there was an opportunity to do better there.

Did those seasons get ruined by leaving guys in too long? I don't think so. But there have definitely been seasons where injuries played a significantly negative part
Maybe I read it wrong but it sure seemed to me that you were saying that Belichick was somehow responsible for injuries that "ruined" seasons for the Pats. If you aren't saying that then what is your point?

Injuries are part of the game. You deal with them much like they did with Gronk last season and with how they are dealing with injuries to Edelman and Hightower this year. The only way you can complain about Belichick leaving guys in too long is if someone gets injured in blowout garbage time. I don't think that's ever happened.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on December 03, 2017, 05:03:26 PM
Love Gronk, but he took it way too far today.

Even if he's frustrated about the lack of calls (and there were a lot), you don't just pull a WWE move on some defender who's already on the ground 3 whole seconds after the play was over. Poor defender probably got a concussion from that.

It's honestly pathetic seeing some of our fan-base actually defending Gronk here too. It was a completely boneheaded move that probably injured a defender well after the play.

I predict Gronk WON'T get suspended though, but he'll definitely get fined heavily. BUT IF he is suspended, it will only be for one game, which is fine since we need him MORE for that Week 15 game @Pittsburgh.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Jiri Welsch on December 03, 2017, 05:43:32 PM
Patriots Fan here: I believe Gronk should get suspended. That was classless, and much worse than throwing a punch on someone who is looking at you.

Truly disturbing.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Ilikesports17 on December 03, 2017, 06:29:25 PM
I dont think there is really a precedent for him to be suspended.

Wouldnt mind a 1 gamer. Dont think we need him next week and there is no way this is a multi-game thing.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Ilikesports17 on December 03, 2017, 06:30:49 PM
Another game Belichick is leaving Brady and Gronk and various other guys in there way way too long because he either doesn't have confidence in Hoyer or his defense or both. I wish just one journalist or reporter had the guts to call him on it but none of them do.
Im gonna go ahead and trust Bill here.
He's not perfect. He's actually a human being. He makes mistakes. It's ok to recognize that. I would have trusted Hoyer and the defense.
I think finishing the games is part of the overall culture in New England and a big part of the success Bill has had.

He keeps guys in for a reason.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: nickagneta on December 03, 2017, 06:36:27 PM
I understand Gronk's frustration. He had a bogus pass interference called against him. He was constantly being held downfield, and the guy that intercepted the pass held AND interferred with Gronk. No call.

That said, that was a pretty scummy move by Gronk and he probably deserves a suspension and definitely deserves a fine.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Jiri Welsch on December 03, 2017, 06:46:25 PM
4 more wins then home field throughout!

I’d absolutely love to see the Steelers drop one tomorrow night.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on December 03, 2017, 07:46:54 PM
4 more wins then home field throughout!

I’d absolutely love to see the Steelers drop one tomorrow night.

Same, but still think they win. I have no hope from the mediocre Bengals.

BUT.. that Week 14 game could be one they drop. Baltimore have looked VERY GOOD lately and those PIT-BAL games are always fiesty and tough. Could see PIT dropping one there.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: CelticsElite on December 03, 2017, 07:54:45 PM
Gronk might get suspended  for this funny statement tackle
http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/260057/a-suspension-for-rob-gronkowski-context-has-changed-in-2017
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: SparzWizard on December 03, 2017, 08:17:44 PM
Jay Cutler on national TV against the Patriots is gonna be interesting.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on December 03, 2017, 08:32:40 PM
Jay Cutler on national TV against the Patriots is gonna be interesting.

Well, it's never easy for the Pats whenever they play AT Miami, so we'll see.

Also worried because the Dolphins may look to hit Brady all night like they did a week ago (w/Suh, Wake, etc.)

Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Ilikesports17 on December 04, 2017, 01:13:20 AM
Jay Cutler on national TV against the Patriots is gonna be interesting.

Well, it's never easy for the Pats whenever they play AT Miami, so we'll see.

Also worried because the Dolphins may look to hit Brady all night like they did a week ago (w/Suh, Wake, etc.)
Have lost 3 out of the last 4 in Miami.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Billz401 on December 04, 2017, 03:21:31 AM
Pretty dumb move by gronk but I definitely understand the frustration on his end. Refs not only this game but throughout his career have let defenders get away with murder against him. They called a bs pass interference on him as well as a hold later in the 2nd half where he definitely didn't hold and let the defense grab and hold him almost every play. The actual play before the cheap shot he was held as well as interfered with and nothing. He's just gotta keep his cool better, and for the most part he does a great job of it. I could see a 25k fine but I can't see them giving a suspension when they didn't give one to AJ green for going ufc on jalen Ramsey earlier this year
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: eja117 on December 04, 2017, 08:36:15 AM
Another game Belichick is leaving Brady and Gronk and various other guys in there way way too long because he either doesn't have confidence in Hoyer or his defense or both. I wish just one journalist or reporter had the guts to call him on it but none of them do.
Someone called him for it last week and Belichick shut them down pretty quick. He wasn't nice about it either.
He had cop out answers and someone should say that to his face. "Tell me the play he'll get hurt on."  What a stupid thing to say. And this from the guy who routinely holds players out of preseason games and has had plenty of seasons ruined by injuries.
Belichick has had a bunch of seasons ruined by injury? They have been to 11 AFC championships, 7 Superbowls and won 5 Superbowls. Kinda hard to say he had too many seasons ruined by injury.
Well there were the Gronk arm seasons. There was the Brady ACL season.  This season things don't look great on the injury front.

By "ruined"  I mean there was an opportunity to do better there.

Did those seasons get ruined by leaving guys in too long? I don't think so. But there have definitely been seasons where injuries played a significantly negative part
Maybe I read it wrong but it sure seemed to me that you were saying that Belichick was somehow responsible for injuries that "ruined" seasons for the Pats. If you aren't saying that then what is your point?

Injuries are part of the game. You deal with them much like they did with Gronk last season and with how they are dealing with injuries to Edelman and Hightower this year. The only way you can complain about Belichick leaving guys in too long is if someone gets injured in blowout garbage time. I don't think that's ever happened.
I don't think a Pats season has ever been ruined by an injury that Belichick was responsible for. I don't think he was responsible for Brady's knee, nor when they targeted Gronk's knee. I do think he was responsible for having Edelman out there in a meaningless preseason game, but this season isn't ruined by that. If we get to the Super Bowl and the other team just covers all our guys and nobody can get open.....it would be a stretch, but I think under that circumstance you could say "Shouldn't have had starters in a meaningless preseason game they didn't need to be in."

I agree I can't think of a time a player ever got hurt in garbage time (unless you see preseason as garbage time) but just because it doesn't happen doesn't mean it never could.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: nickagneta on December 04, 2017, 12:39:57 PM
Another game Belichick is leaving Brady and Gronk and various other guys in there way way too long because he either doesn't have confidence in Hoyer or his defense or both. I wish just one journalist or reporter had the guts to call him on it but none of them do.
Someone called him for it last week and Belichick shut them down pretty quick. He wasn't nice about it either.
He had cop out answers and someone should say that to his face. "Tell me the play he'll get hurt on."  What a stupid thing to say. And this from the guy who routinely holds players out of preseason games and has had plenty of seasons ruined by injuries.
Belichick has had a bunch of seasons ruined by injury? They have been to 11 AFC championships, 7 Superbowls and won 5 Superbowls. Kinda hard to say he had too many seasons ruined by injury.
Well there were the Gronk arm seasons. There was the Brady ACL season.  This season things don't look great on the injury front.

By "ruined"  I mean there was an opportunity to do better there.

Did those seasons get ruined by leaving guys in too long? I don't think so. But there have definitely been seasons where injuries played a significantly negative part
Maybe I read it wrong but it sure seemed to me that you were saying that Belichick was somehow responsible for injuries that "ruined" seasons for the Pats. If you aren't saying that then what is your point?

Injuries are part of the game. You deal with them much like they did with Gronk last season and with how they are dealing with injuries to Edelman and Hightower this year. The only way you can complain about Belichick leaving guys in too long is if someone gets injured in blowout garbage time. I don't think that's ever happened.
I don't think a Pats season has ever been ruined by an injury that Belichick was responsible for. I don't think he was responsible for Brady's knee, nor when they targeted Gronk's knee. I do think he was responsible for having Edelman out there in a meaningless preseason game, but this season isn't ruined by that. If we get to the Super Bowl and the other team just covers all our guys and nobody can get open.....it would be a stretch, but I think under that circumstance you could say "Shouldn't have had starters in a meaningless preseason game they didn't need to be in."

I agree I can't think of a time a player ever got hurt in garbage time (unless you see preseason as garbage time) but just because it doesn't happen doesn't mean it never could.
I am torn with preseason games. The games definitely help players get up to game speed and provides time to get your body, timing, and instincts up to what you want. They are also necessary for the coaches to assess talent and teach the system in gam situations.

On the other hand, long time vets probably need this less if they are committed to being in shape during the offseason. And, with 4 games, it just increases the chances of injury.

Not sure I would blame the coach for having a vet playing in the preseason and getting hurt. Again, its part of the game and I am sure most vets want to get some preseason playing time in to assess where they are and what they have to do moving forward.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on December 04, 2017, 12:44:10 PM
Jay Cutler on national TV against the Patriots is gonna be interesting.

Well, it's never easy for the Pats whenever they play AT Miami, so we'll see.

Also worried because the Dolphins may look to hit Brady all night like they did a week ago (w/Suh, Wake, etc.)
Have lost 3 out of the last 4 in Miami.
I'd much rather just not have Gronk @Miami and perhaps even vs. Buffalo. Don't wan't to have to worry about goons like Kiko Alonso taking his knees out.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: jambr380 on December 04, 2017, 04:09:30 PM
Looks like Gronk is being suspended one game, but will appeal it.

Quote
Rob Gronkowski suspended one game.

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/937778786501787648 (https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/937778786501787648)
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on December 04, 2017, 04:12:37 PM
Looks like Gronk is being suspended one game, but will appeal it.

Quote
Rob Gronkowski suspended one game.

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/937778786501787648 (https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/937778786501787648)

Sounds fair.

Glad it wasn't 2+ games, and happy that he will be available in 2 weeks for that huge game @Pittsburgh.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Ilikesports17 on December 04, 2017, 04:20:11 PM
Looks like Gronk is being suspended one game, but will appeal it.

Quote
Rob Gronkowski suspended one game.

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/937778786501787648 (https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/937778786501787648)

Sounds fair.

Glad it wasn't 2+ games, and happy that he will be available in 2 weeks for that huge game @Pittsburgh.
Honestly glad for the rest.

If we beat the Steelers we can drop one of the other 3 and I think we beat Miami easily even without gronk.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Donoghus on December 04, 2017, 04:22:35 PM
It was a cheap shot. 

I think one game is a fair punishment for that.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Billz401 on December 04, 2017, 05:02:33 PM
Another game Belichick is leaving Brady and Gronk and various other guys in there way way too long because he either doesn't have confidence in Hoyer or his defense or both. I wish just one journalist or reporter had the guts to call him on it but none of them do.
Someone called him for it last week and Belichick shut them down pretty quick. He wasn't nice about it either.
He had cop out answers and someone should say that to his face. "Tell me the play he'll get hurt on."  What a stupid thing to say. And this from the guy who routinely holds players out of preseason games and has had plenty of seasons ruined by injuries.
Belichick has had a bunch of seasons ruined by injury? They have been to 11 AFC championships, 7 Superbowls and won 5 Superbowls. Kinda hard to say he had too many seasons ruined by injury.
Well there were the Gronk arm seasons. There was the Brady ACL season.  This season things don't look great on the injury front.

By "ruined"  I mean there was an opportunity to do better there.

Did those seasons get ruined by leaving guys in too long? I don't think so. But there have definitely been seasons where injuries played a significantly negative part
Maybe I read it wrong but it sure seemed to me that you were saying that Belichick was somehow responsible for injuries that "ruined" seasons for the Pats. If you aren't saying that then what is your point?

Injuries are part of the game. You deal with them much like they did with Gronk last season and with how they are dealing with injuries to Edelman and Hightower this year. The only way you can complain about Belichick leaving guys in too long is if someone gets injured in blowout garbage time. I don't think that's ever happened.
I don't think a Pats season has ever been ruined by an injury that Belichick was responsible for. I don't think he was responsible for Brady's knee, nor when they targeted Gronk's knee. I do think he was responsible for having Edelman out there in a meaningless preseason game, but this season isn't ruined by that. If we get to the Super Bowl and the other team just covers all our guys and nobody can get open.....it would be a stretch, but I think under that circumstance you could say "Shouldn't have had starters in a meaningless preseason game they didn't need to be in."

I agree I can't think of a time a player ever got hurt in garbage time (unless you see preseason as garbage time) but just because it doesn't happen doesn't mean it never could.
I am torn with preseason games. The games definitely help players get up to game speed and provides time to get your body, timing, and instincts up to what you want. They are also necessary for the coaches to assess talent and teach the system in gam situations.

On the other hand, long time vets probably need this less if they are committed to being in shape during the offseason. And, with 4 games, it just increases the chances of injury.

Not sure I would blame the coach for having a vet playing in the preseason and getting hurt. Again, its part of the game and I am sure most vets want to get some preseason playing time in to assess where they are and what they have to do moving forward.
You've also gotta remember that it was a completely non contact play where he got injured, not like he was out there getting smacked around by a defense. He could've just as easily tore his acl in pregame warmups or practice. Can't keep these guys bubble wrapped all the time, they gotta get reps in.

And honestly as far as preseason goes I'd be willing to bet Bill plays his starters the least minutes in the league. Usually no starters play week 1, then maybe the first half of weeks 2 and 3 and then off again week 4. He's constantly evaluating the talent of the new and young guys on the team fighting for a spot. Just look at all the undrafted and late draft picks that become important pieces on his team's over the years
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Vermont Green on December 04, 2017, 05:03:04 PM
So are games are:

@ Miami
@ Pittsburgh
vs. Buffalo
vs. New York Jets

I think this comes down to when the appeal hearing is scheduled.  The Buffalo game may be the best one for him to miss.  He can appeal, wait for the appeal to be scheduled, drop the appeal after the Pittsburgh game, serve it against Buffalo, and get ready for the playoffs.  Now if the appeal is scheduled before Pittsburgh, just serve it against Miami.  One game is fair, I don't see how an appeal will change this.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: SparzWizard on December 04, 2017, 05:05:35 PM
That was dirty, Gronk. Just sit it out. Don't appeal, or you're gonna face what Zeke is facing which will drive us all a headache.

Get your rest next week and bring your 200% against the Steelers.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: SparzWizard on December 04, 2017, 05:07:55 PM
Looks like Gronk is being suspended one game, but will appeal it.

Quote
Rob Gronkowski suspended one game.

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/937778786501787648 (https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/937778786501787648)

Sounds fair.

Glad it wasn't 2+ games, and happy that he will be available in 2 weeks for that huge game @Pittsburgh.
Honestly glad for the rest.

If we beat the Steelers we can drop one of the other 3 and I think we beat Miami easily even without gronk.

No easy cakewalk. Patriots historically struggles winning in Miami at this time of year. Then they gotta play at one of the most hostile environments in the NFL in Heinz Field. Next they play the Bills again who may want revenge, followed by the Jets who like to push the Pats to the edge plus they may rest their starters to get ready for the playoffs.

Division games are gonna be rough. I think the Pats will drop 2 of those 4 games. @MIA and vs NYJ.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on December 04, 2017, 05:16:54 PM
Looks like Gronk is being suspended one game, but will appeal it.

Quote
Rob Gronkowski suspended one game.

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/937778786501787648 (https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/937778786501787648)

Sounds fair.

Glad it wasn't 2+ games, and happy that he will be available in 2 weeks for that huge game @Pittsburgh.
Honestly glad for the rest.

If we beat the Steelers we can drop one of the other 3 and I think we beat Miami easily even without gronk.

No easy cakewalk. Patriots historically struggles winning in Miami at this time of year. Then they gotta play at one of the most hostile environments in the NFL in Heinz Field. Next they play the Bills again who may want revenge, followed by the Jets who like to push the Pats to the edge plus they may rest their starters to get ready for the playoffs.

Division games are gonna be rough. I think the Pats will drop 2 of those 4 games. @MIA and vs NYJ.

Eh I honestly think if we lose the final game to NYJ, it will be because we already clinched the 1 seed and pretty much rested everyone.

Can't see them losing that game @Gillette Stadium if a 1 seed is on the line.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Neurotic Guy on December 10, 2017, 05:16:42 PM
So Buffalo escapes with the OT win today leaving it up to the Pats if they are going to clinch the East this week.

Big Sunday night game.  If Steelers lose tonight and Pats win on Monday, I think Pats can clinch home field next Sunday.   Not positive about that as Jacksonville and Titans are both 8-4.  Jags and Titans play each other Week 17. One of them could end up 12-4. 
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on December 10, 2017, 08:26:14 PM
Not Patriots related, but YIKES.. was watching the Rams-Eagles game (great game btw), but looks like Wentz may have torn his ACL and could be done for the season  :(

Really hate to see that happen, especially with the season he was having.

That may shift the NFC picture a ton, as Foles is decent but he's no Wentz. Sucks for Eagles fans, they were HUGE SB favorites heading into this week.

I think, despite the loss to Carolina today, this makes it more likely the Vikings are favorites in the NFC, or maybe an NFC South team (whoever wins the division, which is real tight between NO, ATL, and CAR, though personally I think NO and CAR are the better teams).
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Ilikesports17 on December 10, 2017, 08:39:11 PM
Not Patriots related, but YIKES.. was watching the Rams-Eagles game (great game btw), but looks like Wentz may have torn his ACL and could be done for the season  :(

Really hate to see that happen, especially with the season he was having.

That may shift the NFC picture a ton, as Foles is decent but he's no Wentz. Sucks for Eagles fans, they were HUGE SB favorites heading into this week.

I think, despite the loss to Carolina today, this makes it more likely the Vikings are favorites in the NFC, or maybe an NFC South team (whoever wins the division, which is real tight between NO, ATL, and CAR, though personally I think NO and CAR are the better teams).
Only team that scares me in the NFL is Jacksonville.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on December 10, 2017, 08:53:15 PM
Not Patriots related, but YIKES.. was watching the Rams-Eagles game (great game btw), but looks like Wentz may have torn his ACL and could be done for the season  :(

Really hate to see that happen, especially with the season he was having.

That may shift the NFC picture a ton, as Foles is decent but he's no Wentz. Sucks for Eagles fans, they were HUGE SB favorites heading into this week.

I think, despite the loss to Carolina today, this makes it more likely the Vikings are favorites in the NFC, or maybe an NFC South team (whoever wins the division, which is real tight between NO, ATL, and CAR, though personally I think NO and CAR are the better teams).
Only team that scares me in the NFL is Jacksonville.

Same. Though I wouldn't want to play Baltimore in AFC Divisional Game either (that team just seems to give us trouble every time we play them in the playoffs lol...)

Vikings defense could be tricky in the Super Bowl but that's obviously looking way far ahead.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: SparzWizard on December 10, 2017, 09:40:48 PM
Not Patriots related, but YIKES.. was watching the Rams-Eagles game (great game btw), but looks like Wentz may have torn his ACL and could be done for the season  :(

Really hate to see that happen, especially with the season he was having.

That may shift the NFC picture a ton, as Foles is decent but he's no Wentz. Sucks for Eagles fans, they were HUGE SB favorites heading into this week.

I think, despite the loss to Carolina today, this makes it more likely the Vikings are favorites in the NFC, or maybe an NFC South team (whoever wins the division, which is real tight between NO, ATL, and CAR, though personally I think NO and CAR are the better teams).
Only team that scares me in the NFL is Jacksonville.

Jacksonville beat the Seahawks, in which the Seahawks handily beat the Eagles.

I see Jacksonville as the New York Giants of 2011. Ugh, why are they in the AFC.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Ilikesports17 on December 10, 2017, 10:02:00 PM
Not Patriots related, but YIKES.. was watching the Rams-Eagles game (great game btw), but looks like Wentz may have torn his ACL and could be done for the season  :(

Really hate to see that happen, especially with the season he was having.

That may shift the NFC picture a ton, as Foles is decent but he's no Wentz. Sucks for Eagles fans, they were HUGE SB favorites heading into this week.

I think, despite the loss to Carolina today, this makes it more likely the Vikings are favorites in the NFC, or maybe an NFC South team (whoever wins the division, which is real tight between NO, ATL, and CAR, though personally I think NO and CAR are the better teams).
Only team that scares me in the NFL is Jacksonville.

Jacksonville beat the Seahawks, in which the Seahawks handily beat the Eagles.

I see Jacksonville as the New York Giants of 2011. Ugh, why are they in the AFC.
Jacksonville beat Seattle in Jacksonville.

the Seahawks beat the Eagles in Seattle.

Important context I think.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: green_bballers13 on December 10, 2017, 10:05:16 PM
Not one team scares me as a Pats fan. That doesn't mean that they can't lose to any team. I wasn't scared by either Giants SB winning team, and I didn't fear the Falcons last year.

I think the Patriots have typically lost to teams with superior defenses: NYG, DEN, BAL.

At some point this season, I've been impressed by the following defenses:
-Jax
-Minny
-Philly
-LA Rams
-KC
-Carolina

I think Philly and LA are still a heavy underdog in the SB vs the Pats.

Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: nickagneta on December 10, 2017, 10:28:34 PM
Not afraid of a Florida team coming up to Foxboro in January and beating the Pats..
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on December 11, 2017, 11:42:30 PM
Wretched, absolutely wretched, performance from the Patriots tonight.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: green_bballers13 on December 11, 2017, 11:44:20 PM
Wretched, absolutely wretched, performance from the Patriots tonight.

Yeah, they stink.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: CelticsElite on December 11, 2017, 11:48:43 PM
You can't win them all
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on December 11, 2017, 11:49:56 PM
I get it -- Miami in Miami.  But every time the Pats lose, the world continues to make a little less sense to me.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on December 12, 2017, 12:40:10 AM
I get it -- Miami in Miami.  But every time the Pats lose, the world continues to make a little less sense to me.

The Pats just stink in Miami. Don't know why, but it's a bad habit of theirs.

You can't win them all

Well, the Pats had already demonstrated that this season. I certainly didn't need them to prove that saying with a terrible performance against an inferior team. But maybe this will light a fire under them?

Wretched, absolutely wretched, performance from the Patriots tonight.

Yeah, they stink.

Sarcasm? Regardless, I recognize that the Patriots are a good team, and that they were without Gronk tonight, and they usually struggle in Miami. Still, games like this scare me. They had an extra day off and it didn't help. They got Hogan back and hardly used him (1 catch on 5 targets). The defense, which had seemingly improved a good deal over the last 6-8 weeks, regressed a lot tonight, giving up numerous big plays.

But, as they say, on to Pittsburgh.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: CelticsElite on December 12, 2017, 12:47:34 AM
I think they said Brady is 9-7 when playing Miami in miami
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: nickagneta on December 12, 2017, 12:49:56 AM
Pretty banged up Pats team tonight who's offensive and defensive lines played like crap. Pretty easy to see why they lost. Hats off to the Dolphins who alwsys makes things tough on the Pats in south Florida.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Ilikesports17 on December 12, 2017, 12:53:15 AM
Van Noy and Flowers are massive losses.

Not that worried. Win the next 3 games and you are the 1 seed.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: eja117 on December 12, 2017, 02:45:59 AM
You can't win them all
Who's "you?"
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Beat LA on December 12, 2017, 03:07:46 AM
I get it -- Miami in Miami.  But every time the Pats lose, the world continues to make a little less sense to me.

The Pats just stink in Miami. Don't know why, but it's a bad habit of theirs.

It has to be the strip clubs, lol :laugh:.

Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Jiri Welsch on December 12, 2017, 04:56:52 AM
You can't win them all
Who's "you?"

It’s the collective you, Yo!
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: jambr380 on December 12, 2017, 08:04:38 AM
I think they said Brady is 9-7 when playing Miami in miami

Nope, it's actually 7-9. Crazy, right?

Anyway, couldn't ask for a much worse game from the Pats. Everything looked so easy for the Dolphins - hopefully they don't wallow too much in this pathetic loss and prepare better for the Steelers.

Not exactly a top notch night for Boston sports.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: eja117 on December 12, 2017, 08:25:46 AM
You can't win them all
Who's "you?"

It’s the collective you, Yo!
This is New England. The only New Englanders you can include in the collective is Vermont and the People's Republic of Cambridge.

No taxation without representation! No telling us we can't win them all! We are the Patriots!
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on December 12, 2017, 10:49:36 AM
I'm certain Brady is playing injured. He's fallen on his throwing arm a million times, and he's been flexing his hand/wrist for weeks now. He also missed 2 days of practice this week.

It's really unfortunate we traded Garoppolo, because even though there's no dropoff skill-wise for Brady, I'd wager a guess that his body won't hold up even until the end of next season.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on December 12, 2017, 10:57:17 AM
I'm certain Brady is playing injured. He's fallen on his throwing arm a million times, and he's been flexing his hand/wrist for weeks now. He also missed 2 days of practice this week.

It's really unfortunate we traded Garoppolo, because even though there's no dropoff skill-wise for Brady, I'd wager a guess that his body won't hold up even until the end of next season.

Yeah, he's been getting pounded pretty good most of the season, which doesn't bode well.

Van Noy and Flowers are massive losses.

Not that worried. Win the next 3 games and you are the 1 seed.

I'm pretty concerned they'll lose to Pittsburgh next week. They get Gronk back, which should help, but the Steelers just put up 39 points against a Ravens D that's been quite a bit better than New England's for most of the season. Then they host the Bills and Jets, two teams they should beat—but that's what I said about Miami, too. The Jets game especially could be a trap—it's the last game of the season, at home, against a team that just lost its starting QB for the season; that has "Patriots loss" written all over it.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: mef730 on December 12, 2017, 01:49:50 PM
Help me out here: If we lose to the Steelers, could we end up as the third seed and not get that first-round bye?

Assume we lost to Pittsburgh and Jacksonville wins the next three. Both division leaders end up as 12-4.

Best as I can tell, here are the tie-breakers:
https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/12/21/7345673/nfl-playoff-tiebreaker-rules-procedure-2014-afc-nfc

We both go 5-1 in the division.

Next tiebreaker is common games. We beat the Jets, but they beat the Steelers. We end up tied there.

In conference, though, we'll be 7-3, while they're 8-2.

Am I using the wrong tie-breakers, or is this a legit possibility?

Mike
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Donoghus on December 12, 2017, 02:47:23 PM
Help me out here: If we lose to the Steelers, could we end up as the third seed and not get that first-round bye?

Assume we lost to Pittsburgh and Jacksonville wins the next three. Both division leaders end up as 12-4.

Best as I can tell, here are the tie-breakers:
https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/12/21/7345673/nfl-playoff-tiebreaker-rules-procedure-2014-afc-nfc

We both go 5-1 in the division.

Next tiebreaker is common games. We beat the Jets, but they beat the Steelers. We end up tied there.

In conference, though, we'll be 7-3, while they're 8-2.

Am I using the wrong tie-breakers, or is this a legit possibility?

Mike

If both teams go 12-4, Jags would get the 2 seed based on better conference record.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on December 12, 2017, 03:34:02 PM
Help me out here: If we lose to the Steelers, could we end up as the third seed and not get that first-round bye?

Assume we lost to Pittsburgh and Jacksonville wins the next three. Both division leaders end up as 12-4.

Best as I can tell, here are the tie-breakers:
https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/12/21/7345673/nfl-playoff-tiebreaker-rules-procedure-2014-afc-nfc

We both go 5-1 in the division.

Next tiebreaker is common games. We beat the Jets, but they beat the Steelers. We end up tied there.

In conference, though, we'll be 7-3, while they're 8-2.

Am I using the wrong tie-breakers, or is this a legit possibility?

Mike

Not sure if you have it right, but I'd rather see the Pats NOT get a first-round bye; seems like the extra time off usually doesn't help them play better.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Donoghus on December 12, 2017, 03:46:00 PM
Help me out here: If we lose to the Steelers, could we end up as the third seed and not get that first-round bye?

Assume we lost to Pittsburgh and Jacksonville wins the next three. Both division leaders end up as 12-4.

Best as I can tell, here are the tie-breakers:
https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/12/21/7345673/nfl-playoff-tiebreaker-rules-procedure-2014-afc-nfc

We both go 5-1 in the division.

Next tiebreaker is common games. We beat the Jets, but they beat the Steelers. We end up tied there.

In conference, though, we'll be 7-3, while they're 8-2.

Am I using the wrong tie-breakers, or is this a legit possibility?

Mike

Not sure if you have it right, but I'd rather see the Pats NOT get a first-round bye; seems like the extra time off usually doesn't help them play better.

All 5 of their Super Bowl wins have come with a first round bye.  All 7 appearances under Belichick have come with a 1st round bye.  You absolutely want the bye.  It's one less game to play.  Less wear & tear. 
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: green_bballers13 on December 12, 2017, 03:48:28 PM
Help me out here: If we lose to the Steelers, could we end up as the third seed and not get that first-round bye?

Assume we lost to Pittsburgh and Jacksonville wins the next three. Both division leaders end up as 12-4.

Best as I can tell, here are the tie-breakers:
https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/12/21/7345673/nfl-playoff-tiebreaker-rules-procedure-2014-afc-nfc

We both go 5-1 in the division.

Next tiebreaker is common games. We beat the Jets, but they beat the Steelers. We end up tied there.

In conference, though, we'll be 7-3, while they're 8-2.

Am I using the wrong tie-breakers, or is this a legit possibility?

Mike

Not sure if you have it right, but I'd rather see the Pats NOT get a first-round bye; seems like the extra time off usually doesn't help them play better.

Disagree. I think you take the first round bye 100/100 times. There's no guarantee of a win in the NFL. There are enough teams in the AFC that could beat NE, even at home. KC, Baltimore, and Jax could all pull out an upset. Heck, the Dolphins, a 12 pt underdog, just beat up the Pats. Any team can lose any game.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Ilikesports17 on December 12, 2017, 04:11:32 PM
I'm certain Brady is playing injured. He's fallen on his throwing arm a million times, and he's been flexing his hand/wrist for weeks now. He also missed 2 days of practice this week.

It's really unfortunate we traded Garoppolo, because even though there's no dropoff skill-wise for Brady, I'd wager a guess that his body won't hold up even until the end of next season.

Yeah, he's been getting pounded pretty good most of the season, which doesn't bode well.

Van Noy and Flowers are massive losses.

Not that worried. Win the next 3 games and you are the 1 seed.

I'm pretty concerned they'll lose to Pittsburgh next week. They get Gronk back, which should help, but the Steelers just put up 39 points against a Ravens D that's been quite a bit better than New England's for most of the season. Then they host the Bills and Jets, two teams they should beat—but that's what I said about Miami, too. The Jets game especially could be a trap—it's the last game of the season, at home, against a team that just lost its starting QB for the season; that has "Patriots loss" written all over it.
The Steelers put up 39 points on a great Ravens D but they also got torched by a mediocre Ravens offense.

Shazier is incredibly important to that defense. Without him they are a bad defensive team. Everything they did was built around his speed at linebacker.

The team is coming off a loss. Gronk should be extra fresh. Hopefully Flowers, Van Noy and Waddle are back. Dont see a reason to panic. They played a bad game against a very fired up Dolphins team in Miami. Expect a comfortable win next week.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on December 12, 2017, 04:24:11 PM
HCA throughout the playoffs or bust. This team is not healthy enough (or perhaps even good enough) to make it to the Superbowl otherwise.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Ilikesports17 on December 12, 2017, 04:57:08 PM
HCA throughout the playoffs or bust. This team is not healthy enough (or perhaps even good enough) to make it to the Superbowl otherwise.
Eh. Not sure I agree.

This team isnt a great patriots team, but they are still very good and when Gronk, Van Noy and Flowers are on the field, they are the best team in the AFC.

If they fall to the 2 seed, I see no reason why they couldnt go into Pittsburgh and and win the AFCCG.

The concern would be falling to the 3 seed. As long as they get that bye, they should be favored to come out of the AFC.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on December 12, 2017, 05:04:19 PM
Help me out here: If we lose to the Steelers, could we end up as the third seed and not get that first-round bye?

Assume we lost to Pittsburgh and Jacksonville wins the next three. Both division leaders end up as 12-4.

Best as I can tell, here are the tie-breakers:
https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/12/21/7345673/nfl-playoff-tiebreaker-rules-procedure-2014-afc-nfc

We both go 5-1 in the division.

Next tiebreaker is common games. We beat the Jets, but they beat the Steelers. We end up tied there.

In conference, though, we'll be 7-3, while they're 8-2.

Am I using the wrong tie-breakers, or is this a legit possibility?

Mike

Not sure if you have it right, but I'd rather see the Pats NOT get a first-round bye; seems like the extra time off usually doesn't help them play better.

All 5 of their Super Bowl wins have come with a first round bye.  All 7 appearances under Belichick have come with a 1st round bye.  You absolutely want the bye.  It's one less game to play.  Less wear & tear.

Well, they've also been knocked out of the playoffs, either one or two weeks after having a bye, in 4 of the last 7 years (’10, ’12, ’13, ’15). I agree that more rest, less wear and tear, and more prep time generally are good things, but it often doesn't equate to wins for the Patriots.

I'm certain Brady is playing injured. He's fallen on his throwing arm a million times, and he's been flexing his hand/wrist for weeks now. He also missed 2 days of practice this week.

It's really unfortunate we traded Garoppolo, because even though there's no dropoff skill-wise for Brady, I'd wager a guess that his body won't hold up even until the end of next season.

Yeah, he's been getting pounded pretty good most of the season, which doesn't bode well.

Van Noy and Flowers are massive losses.

Not that worried. Win the next 3 games and you are the 1 seed.

I'm pretty concerned they'll lose to Pittsburgh next week. They get Gronk back, which should help, but the Steelers just put up 39 points against a Ravens D that's been quite a bit better than New England's for most of the season. Then they host the Bills and Jets, two teams they should beat—but that's what I said about Miami, too. The Jets game especially could be a trap—it's the last game of the season, at home, against a team that just lost its starting QB for the season; that has "Patriots loss" written all over it.
The Steelers put up 39 points on a great Ravens D but they also got torched by a mediocre Ravens offense.

Shazier is incredibly important to that defense. Without him they are a bad defensive team. Everything they did was built around his speed at linebacker.

The team is coming off a loss. Gronk should be extra fresh. Hopefully Flowers, Van Noy and Waddle are back. Dont see a reason to panic. They played a bad game against a very fired up Dolphins team in Miami. Expect a comfortable win next week.

Yeah, the Steelers offense hasn't been anything special this season, despite still being ranked in the top 10 (they've given up tons of big plays), but the Miami defense has been considerably worse (ranked No. 16 right now) and the Pats struggled to score 20 points against it. Gronk's absence was a big deal, but the team still has enough weapons that the offense shouldn't have struggled against Miami. Brady was off, and the only guys who didn't seem discombobulated were Burkhead and Lewis.

I certainly hope for a bounceback effort, but it's gonna be tough.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: A Future of Stevens on December 12, 2017, 05:06:02 PM
Pats signed Kenny Britt through 2018. Very interesting
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on December 12, 2017, 05:20:47 PM
HCA throughout the playoffs or bust. This team is not healthy enough (or perhaps even good enough) to make it to the Superbowl otherwise.
Eh. Not sure I agree.

This team isnt a great patriots team, but they are still very good and when Gronk, Van Noy and Flowers are on the field, they are the best team in the AFC.

If they fall to the 2 seed, I see no reason why they couldnt go into Pittsburgh and and win the AFCCG.

The concern would be falling to the 3 seed. As long as they get that bye, they should be favored to come out of the AFC.
Yeah, we had exactly the same discussion when they had to go to Denver. Now, I realize that playing at Mile High is different, but I don't feel this team is good enough to afford giving other teams a handicap. I also don't think Brady's health will be trending up for the rest of this season, bye week or no bye week.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Ilikesports17 on December 12, 2017, 05:21:43 PM
Help me out here: If we lose to the Steelers, could we end up as the third seed and not get that first-round bye?

Assume we lost to Pittsburgh and Jacksonville wins the next three. Both division leaders end up as 12-4.

Best as I can tell, here are the tie-breakers:
https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/12/21/7345673/nfl-playoff-tiebreaker-rules-procedure-2014-afc-nfc

We both go 5-1 in the division.

Next tiebreaker is common games. We beat the Jets, but they beat the Steelers. We end up tied there.

In conference, though, we'll be 7-3, while they're 8-2.

Am I using the wrong tie-breakers, or is this a legit possibility?

Mike

Not sure if you have it right, but I'd rather see the Pats NOT get a first-round bye; seems like the extra time off usually doesn't help them play better.

All 5 of their Super Bowl wins have come with a first round bye.  All 7 appearances under Belichick have come with a 1st round bye.  You absolutely want the bye.  It's one less game to play.  Less wear & tear.

Well, they've also been knocked out of the playoffs, either one or two weeks after having a bye, in 4 of the last 7 years (’10, ’12, ’13, ’15). I agree that more rest, less wear and tear, and more prep time generally are good things, but it often doesn't equate to wins for the Patriots.

I'm certain Brady is playing injured. He's fallen on his throwing arm a million times, and he's been flexing his hand/wrist for weeks now. He also missed 2 days of practice this week.

It's really unfortunate we traded Garoppolo, because even though there's no dropoff skill-wise for Brady, I'd wager a guess that his body won't hold up even until the end of next season.

Yeah, he's been getting pounded pretty good most of the season, which doesn't bode well.

Van Noy and Flowers are massive losses.

Not that worried. Win the next 3 games and you are the 1 seed.

I'm pretty concerned they'll lose to Pittsburgh next week. They get Gronk back, which should help, but the Steelers just put up 39 points against a Ravens D that's been quite a bit better than New England's for most of the season. Then they host the Bills and Jets, two teams they should beat—but that's what I said about Miami, too. The Jets game especially could be a trap—it's the last game of the season, at home, against a team that just lost its starting QB for the season; that has "Patriots loss" written all over it.
The Steelers put up 39 points on a great Ravens D but they also got torched by a mediocre Ravens offense.

Shazier is incredibly important to that defense. Without him they are a bad defensive team. Everything they did was built around his speed at linebacker.

The team is coming off a loss. Gronk should be extra fresh. Hopefully Flowers, Van Noy and Waddle are back. Dont see a reason to panic. They played a bad game against a very fired up Dolphins team in Miami. Expect a comfortable win next week.

Yeah, the Steelers offense hasn't been anything special this season, despite still being ranked in the top 10 (they've given up tons of big plays), but the Miami defense has been considerably worse (ranked No. 16 right now) and the Pats struggled to score 20 points against it. Gronk's absence was a big deal, but the team still has enough weapons that the offense shouldn't have struggled against Miami. Brady was off, and the only guys who didn't seem discombobulated were Burkhead and Lewis.

I certainly hope for a bounceback effort, but it's gonna be tough.
Steelers defense - Shazier is a whole different animal than the top 10 ranked Steelers defense.

Also, losing 1 or 2 weeks after a bye isnt a noteworthy stat.

There are only 3 possible weeks after a bye. Bye weeks are good. The idea that it is better to play a football game against a team good enough to make the playoffs is better than resting for a week seems absurd to me.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Donoghus on December 12, 2017, 05:52:39 PM
Help me out here: If we lose to the Steelers, could we end up as the third seed and not get that first-round bye?

Assume we lost to Pittsburgh and Jacksonville wins the next three. Both division leaders end up as 12-4.

Best as I can tell, here are the tie-breakers:
https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/12/21/7345673/nfl-playoff-tiebreaker-rules-procedure-2014-afc-nfc

We both go 5-1 in the division.

Next tiebreaker is common games. We beat the Jets, but they beat the Steelers. We end up tied there.

In conference, though, we'll be 7-3, while they're 8-2.

Am I using the wrong tie-breakers, or is this a legit possibility?

Mike

Not sure if you have it right, but I'd rather see the Pats NOT get a first-round bye; seems like the extra time off usually doesn't help them play better.

All 5 of their Super Bowl wins have come with a first round bye.  All 7 appearances under Belichick have come with a 1st round bye.  You absolutely want the bye.  It's one less game to play.  Less wear & tear.

Well, they've also been knocked out of the playoffs, either one or two weeks after having a bye, in 4 of the last 7 years (’10, ’12, ’13, ’15). I agree that more rest, less wear and tear, and more prep time generally are good things, but it often doesn't equate to wins for the Patriots.



'10 is the only time they've lost with a bye.  The other three really have no relevance to downtime at all.  They won the divisional game before losing in the AFCCG each of those times.  I don't think anyone was pointing a finger at the bye being their undoing after any of those three losses. 

When has playing on wild card weekend actually benefited the Patriots? 
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on December 12, 2017, 05:54:35 PM
Pats signed Kenny Britt through 2018. Very interesting

Sort of like the Michael Floyd acquisition last year late in the season.

Britt won't do a ton now, but he'll make plays here and there in the final weeks and some playoff games to contribute to (hopefully) wins the rest of the way. Solid #4/5 option and definitely some added insurance in case of nagging injuries the final 3 weeks of the season.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on December 12, 2017, 06:53:31 PM
Help me out here: If we lose to the Steelers, could we end up as the third seed and not get that first-round bye?

Assume we lost to Pittsburgh and Jacksonville wins the next three. Both division leaders end up as 12-4.

Best as I can tell, here are the tie-breakers:
https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/12/21/7345673/nfl-playoff-tiebreaker-rules-procedure-2014-afc-nfc

We both go 5-1 in the division.

Next tiebreaker is common games. We beat the Jets, but they beat the Steelers. We end up tied there.

In conference, though, we'll be 7-3, while they're 8-2.

Am I using the wrong tie-breakers, or is this a legit possibility?

Mike

Not sure if you have it right, but I'd rather see the Pats NOT get a first-round bye; seems like the extra time off usually doesn't help them play better.

All 5 of their Super Bowl wins have come with a first round bye.  All 7 appearances under Belichick have come with a 1st round bye.  You absolutely want the bye.  It's one less game to play.  Less wear & tear.

Well, they've also been knocked out of the playoffs, either one or two weeks after having a bye, in 4 of the last 7 years (’10, ’12, ’13, ’15). I agree that more rest, less wear and tear, and more prep time generally are good things, but it often doesn't equate to wins for the Patriots.

I'm certain Brady is playing injured. He's fallen on his throwing arm a million times, and he's been flexing his hand/wrist for weeks now. He also missed 2 days of practice this week.

It's really unfortunate we traded Garoppolo, because even though there's no dropoff skill-wise for Brady, I'd wager a guess that his body won't hold up even until the end of next season.

Yeah, he's been getting pounded pretty good most of the season, which doesn't bode well.

Van Noy and Flowers are massive losses.

Not that worried. Win the next 3 games and you are the 1 seed.

I'm pretty concerned they'll lose to Pittsburgh next week. They get Gronk back, which should help, but the Steelers just put up 39 points against a Ravens D that's been quite a bit better than New England's for most of the season. Then they host the Bills and Jets, two teams they should beat—but that's what I said about Miami, too. The Jets game especially could be a trap—it's the last game of the season, at home, against a team that just lost its starting QB for the season; that has "Patriots loss" written all over it.
The Steelers put up 39 points on a great Ravens D but they also got torched by a mediocre Ravens offense.

Shazier is incredibly important to that defense. Without him they are a bad defensive team. Everything they did was built around his speed at linebacker.

The team is coming off a loss. Gronk should be extra fresh. Hopefully Flowers, Van Noy and Waddle are back. Dont see a reason to panic. They played a bad game against a very fired up Dolphins team in Miami. Expect a comfortable win next week.

Yeah, the Steelers offense hasn't been anything special this season, despite still being ranked in the top 10 (they've given up tons of big plays), but the Miami defense has been considerably worse (ranked No. 16 right now) and the Pats struggled to score 20 points against it. Gronk's absence was a big deal, but the team still has enough weapons that the offense shouldn't have struggled against Miami. Brady was off, and the only guys who didn't seem discombobulated were Burkhead and Lewis.

I certainly hope for a bounceback effort, but it's gonna be tough.
Steelers defense - Shazier is a whole different animal than the top 10 ranked Steelers defense.

Also, losing 1 or 2 weeks after a bye isnt a noteworthy stat.

There are only 3 possible weeks after a bye. Bye weeks are good. The idea that it is better to play a football game against a team good enough to make the playoffs is better than resting for a week seems absurd to me.

Points taken. I just hope that, whatever the situation, they have their heads in the game, as opposed to in the sand like they did last night.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on December 17, 2017, 06:41:07 PM
So, another underwhelming and frustrating Patriots performance. The Steelers just gave up 35 points to the Ravens last week, but the might Pats have gotten only 16. Say bye-bye to the bye.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Roy H. on December 17, 2017, 07:18:54 PM
Worst “rule” in the NFL.  Steelers got jobbed.

Great defense on that INT though.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on December 17, 2017, 07:23:35 PM
Worst “rule” in the NFL.  Steelers got jobbed.

Great defense on that INT though.
It's amazing how long it took the crew in the broadcast booth to figure out what they were reviewing. You could see the bobble two replays in.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kraidstar on December 17, 2017, 07:25:43 PM
Worst “rule” in the NFL.  Steelers got jobbed.

Great defense on that INT though.

Dumb play by the receiver.

This rule is nothing new, so I have no sympathy for the Steelers. it was a mental mistake. Gotta control the ball all the way to the ground.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on December 17, 2017, 07:27:38 PM
Worst “rule” in the NFL.  Steelers got jobbed.

Great defense on that INT though.

Dumb play by the receiver.

This rule is nothing new, so I have no sympathy for the Steelers. it was a mental mistake. Gotta control the ball all the way to the ground.

Might be a dumb rule, like the tuck rule, but yeah, it's not new. Besides, Pittsburgh could've sealed it before that but dropped an INT.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on December 17, 2017, 07:27:56 PM
Bonus footage of Jimmy G on a potential game-winning drive now.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on December 17, 2017, 07:29:30 PM
Bonus footage of Jimmy G on a potential game-winning drive now.
Edited for accuracy.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on December 17, 2017, 07:30:01 PM
Worst “rule” in the NFL.  Steelers got jobbed.

Great defense on that INT though.

Patriots are still getting positive payback for those two ridiculous SB losses to the Giants. ;)
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on December 17, 2017, 07:32:55 PM
Jimmy G looks so good. I'm bitter.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: nickagneta on December 17, 2017, 07:34:29 PM
The most exciting game and improbable win for the Pats since the Super Bowl. Pittsburgh people complaining about the non-TD are just spouting sour grapes. The rule has been around a long time and it was prrtty obvious that he didn't control the ball all the way through contact with the ground.

Unbelievable game. Go Pats.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: manl_lui on December 17, 2017, 07:49:53 PM
wow that last overturn was huge, can someone explain how that was ruled as an incomplete? I thought he had perfect control of the ball and extended for the TD?
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on December 17, 2017, 07:52:32 PM
wow that last overturn was huge, can someone explain how that was ruled as an incomplete? I thought he had perfect control of the ball and extended for the TD?

James made that catch as he was going to the ground, so he never actually established possession of the ball before hitting the ground, then, when he hits the ground, the ball hits the ground and pops loose.

Basically, he didn't "complete the catch process." If a caught ball touches the ground, it’s not a catch. The receiver needs to have his hands under it. See: Edelman’s catch in the last Super Bowl.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on December 17, 2017, 07:53:31 PM
The most exciting game and improbable win for the Pats since the Super Bowl. Pittsburgh people complaining about the non-TD are just spouting sour grapes. The rule has been around a long time and it was prrtty obvious that he didn't control the ball all the way through contact with the ground.

Unbelievable game. Go Pats.

I agree with all of your points—super exciting game (though depressing for much of it), and the rule is clear.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: colincb on December 17, 2017, 07:54:53 PM
- The rule is clear and it was also clear the receiver didn't have control all the way through. People who don't know the rule or claim they don't know what a catch is are willfully ignorant at this point.

- Jimmy G is going to be a very good NFL QB.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Roy H. on December 17, 2017, 08:21:25 PM
- The rule is clear and it was also clear the receiver didn't have control all the way through. People who don't know the rule or claim they don't know what a catch is are willfully ignorant at this point.

- Jimmy G is going to be a very good NFL QB.

That “rule” is called wildly inconsistently.

Quote
" If a caught ball touches the ground, it’s not a catch.

Sometimes, and sometimes not. Sometimes contact with the ground is allowed if it’s not deemed to have assisted with the catch.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: nickagneta on December 17, 2017, 08:27:26 PM
- The rule is clear and it was also clear the receiver didn't have control all the way through. People who don't know the rule or claim they don't know what a catch is are willfully ignorant at this point.

- Jimmy G is going to be a very good NFL QB.

That “rule” is called wildly inconsistently.
Not really. Due to instant replay, they usually get it right. But if you think that is called inconsistently, what about pass interference and holding? There is holding of some kind in every play and pass interference is the most inconsistently called rule in the book. And due to the fact that penalties can't be reviewed...they stand.

The play was called correctly.

Refarding Jimmy G. The Pats got hosed on that trade. They traded away a franchise quality QB for a high 2nd rounder. Just awful trade.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on December 17, 2017, 08:41:01 PM
Refarding Jimmy G. The Pats got hosed on that trade. They traded away a franchise quality QB for a high 2nd rounder. Just awful trade.
I'm gonna call it right now: choosing 2 years of Brady over a decade of Jimmy was a mistake.

#HotTakeAlert
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Csfan1984 on December 17, 2017, 08:45:08 PM
I thought the biggest issue with the no catch was if it was a catch before he reached towards the goal line (which is a football move). But he was in motion towards the goal line before his knee was down. Thus he needed to maintain control going down to the ground to complete the catch. He didn't as we saw on the replay. He really should have just caught the ball then go in backwards he blew that play. I very much enjoy Steelers losing. Such a hypocritical team.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Ilikesports17 on December 17, 2017, 08:46:27 PM
Refarding Jimmy G. The Pats got hosed on that trade. They traded away a franchise quality QB for a high 2nd rounder. Just awful trade.
I'm gonna call it right now: choosing 2 years of Brady over a decade of Jimmy was a mistake.

#HotTakeAlert
Disagree.

Jimmy will be great, but Tom is special.

At the QB position the difference matters.

You either need a Brady-level player or a rookie contract guy. Jimmy won't he either next year.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on December 17, 2017, 08:52:48 PM
Worst “rule” in the NFL.  Steelers got jobbed.

Great defense on that INT though.
It's amazing how long it took the crew in the broadcast booth to figure out what they were reviewing. You could see the bobble two replays in.

LOL I was watching just thinking, "just get the review over with so we can get on with it", thinking it was about to be 31-27 PIT with 28 seconds left.

Then Romo is like "OHHHH they may be looking at whether he had control of the ball" and was like "WAIT WHAT..??".

Then the reaction I had when they actually overturned the TD...  :laugh:

BUT THEN the pessimism in me thought, "oh great, so instead of Brady having 28 seconds and 2 timeouts to try and score a TD, Pittsburgh will score here and only leave about 10-15 seconds for Brady", but LUCKILY it didn't come down to that!  ;D
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on December 17, 2017, 08:57:05 PM
Frankly, that game was UGLY for both sides, though a lot had to do with injuries and the weather it seemed (to a small extent).

Both teams pretty much lost the game SEVERAL times in the final 3 minutes  :laugh:

Frankly, it was a catch, BUT BY RULE IT WAS NOT. That's the flawed catch rule for you, and frankly there's no consistency with those calls around the NFL. The bobble certainly helped NE's case as the ball hit the ground there.

Still, while a win is a win, that was very ugly and could have gone either way.

THAT SAID... Big Ben could have easily thrown the ball away and kicked the game tying FG to force overtime, but instead he makes a risky throw that results in an ill-advised pick. Some bad situational football there by PIT.

Now, Pats HAVE to take care of business the next two weeks and win out to secure #1 seed. Hopefully this isn't like 2015 where injuries + lack of aggression led to two losses to end the season, which cost them the #1 seed and a home game vs. Denver in the AFCCG.

Also, if PIT & JAX both win out and NE loses 1 game, then it doesn't matter what happened tonight, as NE falls to 3 seed I believe. SO.. take care of business the next few weeks Pats! And hope a lot of the guys get healthy again.  ;D
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on December 17, 2017, 08:59:44 PM
Frankly, it was a catch, BUT BY RULE IT WAS NOT. That's the flawed catch rule for you, and frankly there's no consistency with those calls around the NFL. The bobble certainly helped NE's case as the ball hit the ground there.
No, there's absolute consistency. If the ball hits the ground and moves as you're coming down with it, it will be called an incomplete every time.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Ilikesports17 on December 17, 2017, 09:07:32 PM
Frankly, it was a catch, BUT BY RULE IT WAS NOT. That's the flawed catch rule for you, and frankly there's no consistency with those calls around the NFL. The bobble certainly helped NE's case as the ball hit the ground there.
No, there's absolute consistency. If the ball hits the ground and moves as you're coming down with it, it will be called an incomplete every time.
Yeah it's actually really consistent.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on December 17, 2017, 09:13:49 PM
Frankly, it was a catch, BUT BY RULE IT WAS NOT. That's the flawed catch rule for you, and frankly there's no consistency with those calls around the NFL. The bobble certainly helped NE's case as the ball hit the ground there.
No, there's absolute consistency. If the ball hits the ground and moves as you're coming down with it, it will be called an incomplete every time.
Yeah it's actually really consistent.
At least as far as this particular aspect of the rule is concerned. What constitutes "a football move" has generally been iffy, but just reaching downfield has never been enough to satisfy that definition.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: eja117 on December 17, 2017, 09:20:20 PM
Refarding Jimmy G. The Pats got hosed on that trade. They traded away a franchise quality QB for a high 2nd rounder. Just awful trade.
I'm gonna call it right now: choosing 2 years of Brady over a decade of Jimmy was a mistake.

#HotTakeAlert
Depends entirely on how many Super Bowls each one wins in that time
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: nickagneta on December 17, 2017, 09:28:19 PM
Yeah, I don't get where people said what constitutes a catch isn't called consistently. Instant repkay has pretty much rendered that point moot. Yeah, they get some wrong but the vast majority are called correctly. This call was correct.

You want inconsistent, review how dbs defend the Gronk. They hold him and interfere with him on most plays and they don't call it or call it wrong most of the time. Unfortunately, no instant replay on penalties so Gronk gets screwed most of the time.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Fan from VT on December 17, 2017, 09:48:03 PM
I thought the biggest issue with the no catch was if it was a catch before he reached towards the goal line (which is a football move). But he was in motion towards the goal line before his knee was down. Thus he needed to maintain control going down to the ground to complete the catch. He didn't as we saw on the replay. He really should have just caught the ball then go in backwards he blew that play. I very much enjoy Steelers losing. Such a hypocritical team.

I saw somewhere someone put it nicely about all these goal line controversies:
"Reach for the goal line at your own peril."
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on December 17, 2017, 09:56:09 PM
Refarding Jimmy G. The Pats got hosed on that trade. They traded away a franchise quality QB for a high 2nd rounder. Just awful trade.
I'm gonna call it right now: choosing 2 years of Brady over a decade of Jimmy was a mistake.

#HotTakeAlert
Depends entirely on how many Super Bowls each one wins in that time
Maybe, if you think the 49ers organization is as good as  the Patriots.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: nickagneta on December 17, 2017, 10:22:21 PM
Refarding Jimmy G. The Pats got hosed on that trade. They traded away a franchise quality QB for a high 2nd rounder. Just awful trade.
I'm gonna call it right now: choosing 2 years of Brady over a decade of Jimmy was a mistake.

#HotTakeAlert
Depends entirely on how many Super Bowls each one wins in that time
Maybe, if you think the 49ers organization is as good as  the Patriots.
Well the Pats could have just played out the year with Brady and told him if we win it all, retire or we trade you, then they would have signed Jimmy G long term. Then it would have been just one year of Brady then multiple years of Brady.

I think that that's what Belichick wanted to do but Brady went to Kraft and said he was playing multiple years, so Kraft told Belichick to trade Jimmy. Its the only thing that makes sense because if Belichick planned to trade Garropolo all along, he would never have trade Brissette.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on December 18, 2017, 12:16:15 AM
It's entirely possible the Pats made the wrong long-term call by trading JG, but a) chances are, JG is not a Brady-level player (and the Niners aren't a Pats-level organization), and b) you don't just dump the guy who led you to 5 Super Bowl titles.

If Jimmy ends up leading the Niners (or another team) to 3 or 4 titles, maybe I'll regret the trade, but I really don't see that happening.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on December 18, 2017, 12:23:32 AM
The hard salary cap is brutal in the NFL.  As of now, the Pats are right up against it, and next year doesn't look good either ($14 mil).  But trading JG is and probably will be a tough pill to swallow.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Ilikesports17 on December 18, 2017, 12:24:58 AM
Frankly, it was a catch, BUT BY RULE IT WAS NOT. That's the flawed catch rule for you, and frankly there's no consistency with those calls around the NFL. The bobble certainly helped NE's case as the ball hit the ground there.
No, there's absolute consistency. If the ball hits the ground and moves as you're coming down with it, it will be called an incomplete every time.
Yeah it's actually really consistent.
At least as far as this particular aspect of the rule is concerned. What constitutes "a football move" has generally been iffy, but just reaching downfield has never been enough to satisfy that definition.
Then I guess it's a good thing that the term "football move" is not in the rule at all.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: johnnygreen on December 18, 2017, 08:26:31 AM
If the NFL is wondering why the ratings are going down, then they should watch the end of yesterday's Pats/Steelers game. Nobody knows what the rules are anymore. BTW, there is also the rule that the video evidence on the instant replay has to be indisputable to overturn the call on the field. Yes the ball moved, but his fingers on his right hand were under the ball the whole time.

If the ground can't cause a fumble, then how can it prevent a catch? I think the NFL needs to pick a side that is consistent regardless of the type of play.

BTW, the only reason why people are talking about this play, is because of the controversy surrounding it and common sense saying that it was a catch. If the refs called it a touchdown after the replay, then no one would have been questioning the catch today, because of how obvious it was.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: GetLucky on December 18, 2017, 09:25:46 AM
If the NFL is wondering why the ratings are going down, then they should watch the end of yesterday's Pats/Steelers game. Nobody knows what the rules are anymore. BTW, there is also the rule that the video evidence on the instant replay has to be indisputable to overturn the call on the field. Yes the ball moved, but his fingers on his right hand were under the ball the whole time.

If the ground can't cause a fumble, then how can it prevent a catch? I think the NFL needs to pick a side that is consistent regardless of the type of play.

BTW, the only reason why people are talking about this play, is because of the controversy surrounding it and common sense saying that it was a catch. If the refs called it a touchdown after the replay, then no one would have been questioning the catch today, because of how obvious it was.

My understanding is that they changed the "ground can't cause a fumble" rule to "receiver must maintain control through the fall."
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: jambr380 on December 18, 2017, 09:52:00 AM
If the NFL is wondering why the ratings are going down, then they should watch the end of yesterday's Pats/Steelers game. Nobody knows what the rules are anymore. BTW, there is also the rule that the video evidence on the instant replay has to be indisputable to overturn the call on the field. Yes the ball moved, but his fingers on his right hand were under the ball the whole time.

If the ground can't cause a fumble, then how can it prevent a catch? I think the NFL needs to pick a side that is consistent regardless of the type of play.

BTW, the only reason why people are talking about this play, is because of the controversy surrounding it and common sense saying that it was a catch. If the refs called it a touchdown after the replay, then no one would have been questioning the catch today, because of how obvious it was.

When making a catch, a player must maintain control throughout the entire process of the catch, including going to the ground. He was still in the process of receiving the ball since he was falling. The ball clearly came loose when he hit the ground.

People claiming that because he crossed the goal line before hitting the ground aren't taking into account what it is to be a 'runner' and what it is to be a 'receiver.' When RBs or WRs that are running with the ball (after making a 'footbal play') reach for the plane and then fumble it, it is different than making what appears to be a catch, but not having complete control all the way to the ground.

While it stinks for Steelers fans, it's just how the rule has always been interpreted. Personally I don't think this one was all that controversial compared to other close calls.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on December 18, 2017, 10:03:04 AM
If the NFL is wondering why the ratings are going down, then they should watch the end of yesterday's Pats/Steelers game. Nobody knows what the rules are anymore. BTW, there is also the rule that the video evidence on the instant replay has to be indisputable to overturn the call on the field. Yes the ball moved, but his fingers on his right hand were under the ball the whole time.

If the ground can't cause a fumble, then how can it prevent a catch? I think the NFL needs to pick a side that is consistent regardless of the type of play.

BTW, the only reason why people are talking about this play, is because of the controversy surrounding it and common sense saying that it was a catch. If the refs called it a touchdown after the replay, then no one would have been questioning the catch today, because of how obvious it was.

My understanding is that they changed the "ground can't cause a fumble" rule to "receiver must maintain control through the fall."
"The ground cannot cause a fumble" is in fact not a rule. It's a convenient shortcut for the fact that if you're tackled and lose the ball when it hits the ground, you're down by contact in the second the ball touches the ground. The ground can, in fact, cause a fumble, if you fall without contact and lose the ball. It's not rocket science, but memespeak is dangerous like that.

Still has nothing to do with the situation, though. The rule is clear cut in that you can't use the ground to maintain control of the ball while making a catch, and that's exactly what happened here.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on December 18, 2017, 10:04:48 AM
Frankly, it was a catch, BUT BY RULE IT WAS NOT. That's the flawed catch rule for you, and frankly there's no consistency with those calls around the NFL. The bobble certainly helped NE's case as the ball hit the ground there.
No, there's absolute consistency. If the ball hits the ground and moves as you're coming down with it, it will be called an incomplete every time.
Yeah it's actually really consistent.
At least as far as this particular aspect of the rule is concerned. What constitutes "a football move" has generally been iffy, but just reaching downfield has never been enough to satisfy that definition.
Then I guess it's a good thing that the term "football move" is not in the rule at all.
Yes, they "changed the rule" by writing in that the player now has to "establish himself as a runner". Don't delude yourself that this is anything else than hand waving. This is still called exactly the same way it's always been.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on December 18, 2017, 10:07:11 AM
It's entirely possible the Pats made the wrong long-term call by trading JG, but a) chances are, JG is not a Brady-level player (and the Niners aren't a Pats-level organization), and b) you don't just dump the guy who led you to 5 Super Bowl titles.

If Jimmy ends up leading the Niners (or another team) to 3 or 4 titles, maybe I'll regret the trade, but I really don't see that happening.
Chances are he's not going to play until he's 40 at the level at which Brady is playing. But based on what I've seen, he's got exactly the same je ne sais quoi that Brady does. There, I said it.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on December 18, 2017, 11:01:14 AM
It's entirely possible the Pats made the wrong long-term call by trading JG, but a) chances are, JG is not a Brady-level player (and the Niners aren't a Pats-level organization), and b) you don't just dump the guy who led you to 5 Super Bowl titles.

If Jimmy ends up leading the Niners (or another team) to 3 or 4 titles, maybe I'll regret the trade, but I really don't see that happening.
Chances are he's not going to play until he's 40 at the level at which Brady is playing. But based on what I've seen, he's got exactly the same je ne sais quoi that Brady does. There, I said it.

Maybe so. I'd be happy to see him reach that level, as long as his team doesn't ever beat the Pats in the Super Bowl. ;D
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: eja117 on December 18, 2017, 11:08:22 AM
I admit I don't understand why it's not a catch on the one when he has the ball and his knee is down at the one. 

To me on some level if we're going to watch things in super slow motion to make the call super slow mo has to be used to uphold things just as much as overturn them.

I'm not even sure we should have slow mo replay. Just replay. The game isn't played or called in slow mo
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on December 18, 2017, 11:31:55 AM
I admit I don't understand why it's not a catch on the one when he has the ball and his knee is down at the one.

To me on some level if we're going to watch things in super slow motion to make the call super slow mo has to be used to uphold things just as much as overturn them.

I'm not even sure we should have slow mo replay. Just replay. The game isn't played or called in slow mo
You don't need to watch things in super slo mo to see he couldn't hold on to the ball without plopping it on the ground. You just need to not be blind. The knee on the ground is largely irrelevant to the discussion (but even if it weren't, he's not  down by contact at that point either way).
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: eja117 on December 18, 2017, 11:55:37 AM
If he's not down by contact because nobody has touched him and he starts to move wouldn't it then be a fumble and recovery?

The knee is the impact with the ground. Not his hands. Right?
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: eja117 on December 18, 2017, 11:56:47 AM
I admit I don't understand why it's not a catch on the one when he has the ball and his knee is down at the one.

To me on some level if we're going to watch things in super slow motion to make the call super slow mo has to be used to uphold things just as much as overturn them.

I'm not even sure we should have slow mo replay. Just replay. The game isn't played or called in slow mo
You don't need to watch things in super slo mo to see he couldn't hold on to the ball without plopping it on the ground. You just need to not be blind. The knee on the ground is largely irrelevant to the discussion (but even if it weren't, he's not  down by contact at that point either way).
My eyes are decent (no glasses) and I see a guy who has clearly made a catch and is now stretching out.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: libermaniac on December 18, 2017, 11:58:26 AM
If the NFL is wondering why the ratings are going down, then they should watch the end of yesterday's Pats/Steelers game. Nobody knows what the rules are anymore. BTW, there is also the rule that the video evidence on the instant replay has to be indisputable to overturn the call on the field. Yes the ball moved, but his fingers on his right hand were under the ball the whole time.

If the ground can't cause a fumble, then how can it prevent a catch? I think the NFL needs to pick a side that is consistent regardless of the type of play.

BTW, the only reason why people are talking about this play, is because of the controversy surrounding it and common sense saying that it was a catch. If the refs called it a touchdown after the replay, then no one would have been questioning the catch today, because of how obvious it was.

My understanding is that they changed the "ground can't cause a fumble" rule to "receiver must maintain control through the fall."
"The ground cannot cause a fumble" is in fact not a rule. It's a convenient shortcut for the fact that if you're tackled and lose the ball when it hits the ground, you're down by contact in the second the ball touches the ground. The ground can, in fact, cause a fumble, if you fall without contact and lose the ball. It's not rocket science, but memespeak is dangerous like that.

Still has nothing to do with the situation, though. The rule is clear cut in that you can't use the ground to maintain control of the ball while making a catch, and that's exactly what happened here.

Not really.  He made the catch, but the NFL has a silly rule that you have to maintain control of . a catch all the way through hitting the ground.  It's a silly rule that has always caused head scratching decisions.  Had that play happened in the middle of the field and instead of him lunging for the end zone, for example, somebody popped the ball loose (because they dove low or it hit their foot, etc..) it would've been ruled a catch and a fumble.  He CLEARLY had possession.  He just reached out to put it over the goal line.   Or, had it been a running play and he reached across the end zone it would have been a TD before any lost possession.  But, the NFL has this silly rule that on a catch where you hit the ground, you need to maintain possession all the way through the play.  So, by the letter of the law it was the correct play.  Just another bad rule that benefitted the Patriots.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Vermont Green on December 18, 2017, 12:18:15 PM
Refarding Jimmy G. The Pats got hosed on that trade. They traded away a franchise quality QB for a high 2nd rounder. Just awful trade.
I'm gonna call it right now: choosing 2 years of Brady over a decade of Jimmy was a mistake.

#HotTakeAlert

Smokin Hot Take!!!   ;)

The trade really was a high second rounder and Hoyer with SF paying most of Hoyer's salary.  There is no doubt in my mind that the whole thing was prearranged (and reports confirm this, see below).  Still, I know, it seems like there were opportunities to get more but no one really knows.

Regarding Garoppolo, I don't see how you can watch that game yesterday and think that he will ever be nearly as good as Brady (or Roethlisberger for that matter).  I think Garoppolo is about Alex Smith at best and let's see if he even achieves that.  He is playing fine but it has been the Bears, Texans, and Titans.  I predict he will not do as well against the Jags and Rams.

Quote
The original plan was to trade Hoyer to the Patriots, but the comp pick formula prevented that from happening. Instead, the 49ers released him, and he signed with the Patriots a day later. The decision to release Hoyer meant the 49ers were left to eat a sizable chunk of cap space. However, Hoyer’s deal did include offset language, which meant that whatever the Patriots paid him would offset what the 49ers owed him. He would not be able to “double dip,” in which the 49ers pay him his full salary and then the Patriots pay him a full salary as well.

Given that the 49ers were paying him a sizable chunk of money in 2017 and 2018, it is no surprise the Patriots are not going to pay him very much in either year. According to ESPN’s Field Yates, Hoyer’s deal is worth $4,441,000. Of that, the Patriots will pay him $476,000 this year, $915,000 next year, and $3.05 million in 2019. The 2019 money includes $2.85 million in base salary (with $1.5 million guaranteed) and a $200,000 roster bonus.

The 49ers signed Hoyer to a two-year deal, so only the 2017 and 2018 salaries matter. They are the league minimum (2017 is prorated version), so they only offset $1,391,000 in salary the 49ers are paying him. The 49ers were paying him $7.3 million this year, and $2.9 million next year. However, I believe the $476,000 would be subtracted from the $7.3 million, and the $915,000 would be subtracted from the $2.9 million.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Cman on December 18, 2017, 01:11:27 PM
Refarding Jimmy G. The Pats got hosed on that trade. They traded away a franchise quality QB for a high 2nd rounder. Just awful trade.
I'm gonna call it right now: choosing 2 years of Brady over a decade of Jimmy was a mistake.

#HotTakeAlert

Maybe. But I don't think it is as simple as that, for multiple reasons. The two following are the most important, though:

1) Because of the hard cap, Pats could keep both Brady and JG, so you basically need to argue that the Pats should have sought a trade partner for Brady. Ooooof. As ruthless at BB and Kraft might seem, I can't see them doing that. They are a business, afterall, and know that the value of the Pats franchise is higher with Brady as part of it, forever.

2) The "Patriots Way" philosophy has shifted over the past year or so. They are very clearly in the "milk it now" approach for the next two years, as opposed to the "keep building for the future, always look to the future" approach that has characterized them for the past 10 years or so. The Pats made some pretty big moves this past summer, and I expect there will be equally if not bigger moves (involving trading picks or players) this next year, all with an eye to building a really great team for the next 2 years.  What all this has in mind is riding things out with Brady for the next couple years. Going with JG would be inconsistent with this change in strategy we've seen from the Pats.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: jambr380 on December 18, 2017, 01:13:03 PM
If he's not down by contact because nobody has touched him and he starts to move wouldn't it then be a fumble and recovery?

The knee is the impact with the ground. Not his hands. Right?

The process of James making the catch occurred while he was going to the ground so the knee doesn't matter in this case. If he had made the catch and then took a knee (like so many kick-off returners do), that would be different since he would have demonstrated control of the ball before choosing to be down on his own volition.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: eja117 on December 18, 2017, 01:17:09 PM
If the NFL is wondering why the ratings are going down, then they should watch the end of yesterday's Pats/Steelers game. Nobody knows what the rules are anymore. BTW, there is also the rule that the video evidence on the instant replay has to be indisputable to overturn the call on the field. Yes the ball moved, but his fingers on his right hand were under the ball the whole time.

If the ground can't cause a fumble, then how can it prevent a catch? I think the NFL needs to pick a side that is consistent regardless of the type of play.

BTW, the only reason why people are talking about this play, is because of the controversy surrounding it and common sense saying that it was a catch. If the refs called it a touchdown after the replay, then no one would have been questioning the catch today, because of how obvious it was.

My understanding is that they changed the "ground can't cause a fumble" rule to "receiver must maintain control through the fall."
"The ground cannot cause a fumble" is in fact not a rule. It's a convenient shortcut for the fact that if you're tackled and lose the ball when it hits the ground, you're down by contact in the second the ball touches the ground. The ground can, in fact, cause a fumble, if you fall without contact and lose the ball. It's not rocket science, but memespeak is dangerous like that.

Still has nothing to do with the situation, though. The rule is clear cut in that you can't use the ground to maintain control of the ball while making a catch, and that's exactly what happened here.

Not really.  He made the catch, but the NFL has a silly rule that you have to maintain control of . a catch all the way through hitting the ground.  It's a silly rule that has always caused head scratching decisions.  Had that play happened in the middle of the field and instead of him lunging for the end zone, for example, somebody popped the ball loose (because they dove low or it hit their foot, etc..) it would've been ruled a catch and a fumble.  He CLEARLY had possession.  He just reached out to put it over the goal line.   Or, had it been a running play and he reached across the end zone it would have been a TD before any lost possession.  But, the NFL has this silly rule that on a catch where you hit the ground, you need to maintain possession all the way through the play.  So, by the letter of the law it was the correct play.  Just another bad rule that benefitted the Patriots.
Oh wow. I guess I get that. If I were a Pittsburg fan I'd probably respond that the play then ends when he breaks the plane.

It just sorta seems there are multiple ways to justify a catch and only one way to justify it's not a catch and that's what they used.

It's pretty counter intuitive.

"So you're saying he made the catch and crossed the plane so it's a catch?" Nope. We're saying no catch.

"So you're saying he made the catch and he fumbled and recovered it?" Nope. We're saying no catch.

"So you're saying he made a catch and nobody touched him, but then he failed to make a football move so he's still in the process of making...."  Nope. We're saying no catch.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on December 18, 2017, 01:23:52 PM
Had that play happened in the middle of the field and instead of him lunging for the end zone, for example, somebody popped the ball loose (because they dove low or it hit their foot, etc..) it would've been ruled a catch and a fumble.
I don't know how to say this without being rude, but... do you actually watch the NFL on a regular basis?
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on December 18, 2017, 01:34:27 PM
Regarding Garoppolo, I don't see how you can watch that game yesterday and think that he will ever be nearly as good as Brady (or Roethlisberger for that matter).  I think Garoppolo is about Alex Smith at best and let's see if he even achieves that.  He is playing fine but it has been the Bears, Texans, and Titans.  I predict he will not do as well against the Jags and Rams.
The Titans have one of the top defenses in the league (the Steelers, by the way, don't -- that's since you mentioned yesterday's game). Garropolo marched right up their gut to set up his kicker for the game-winning FG. What he's done with the bunch of useless spare parts they served up to him in SF is impressive. Add to this the fact that he took over Brady's team last season and we had no dropoff, and I'm ready to call this.

Also, Garropolo is nothing like Alex Smith. If anything he's  the polar opposite of Alex Smith. He's a QB who will make things happen to win, not just someone who you can trust to not lose you the game.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on December 18, 2017, 01:59:12 PM
If the NFL is wondering why the ratings are going down, then they should watch the end of yesterday's Pats/Steelers game. Nobody knows what the rules are anymore. BTW, there is also the rule that the video evidence on the instant replay has to be indisputable to overturn the call on the field. Yes the ball moved, but his fingers on his right hand were under the ball the whole time.

If the ground can't cause a fumble, then how can it prevent a catch? I think the NFL needs to pick a side that is consistent regardless of the type of play.

BTW, the only reason why people are talking about this play, is because of the controversy surrounding it and common sense saying that it was a catch. If the refs called it a touchdown after the replay, then no one would have been questioning the catch today, because of how obvious it was.

My understanding is that they changed the "ground can't cause a fumble" rule to "receiver must maintain control through the fall."
"The ground cannot cause a fumble" is in fact not a rule. It's a convenient shortcut for the fact that if you're tackled and lose the ball when it hits the ground, you're down by contact in the second the ball touches the ground. The ground can, in fact, cause a fumble, if you fall without contact and lose the ball. It's not rocket science, but memespeak is dangerous like that.

Still has nothing to do with the situation, though. The rule is clear cut in that you can't use the ground to maintain control of the ball while making a catch, and that's exactly what happened here.

Not really.  He made the catch, but the NFL has a silly rule that you have to maintain control of . a catch all the way through hitting the ground.  It's a silly rule that has always caused head scratching decisions.  Had that play happened in the middle of the field and instead of him lunging for the end zone, for example, somebody popped the ball loose (because they dove low or it hit their foot, etc..) it would've been ruled a catch and a fumble.  He CLEARLY had possession.  He just reached out to put it over the goal line.   Or, had it been a running play and he reached across the end zone it would have been a TD before any lost possession.  But, the NFL has this silly rule that on a catch where you hit the ground, you need to maintain possession all the way through the play.  So, by the letter of the law it was the correct play.  Just another bad rule that benefitted the Patriots.
Oh wow. I guess I get that. If I were a Pittsburg fan I'd probably respond that the play then ends when he breaks the plane.

It just sorta seems there are multiple ways to justify a catch and only one way to justify it's not a catch and that's what they used.

It's pretty counter intuitive.

"So you're saying he made the catch and crossed the plane so it's a catch?" Nope. We're saying no catch.

"So you're saying he made the catch and he fumbled and recovered it?" Nope. We're saying no catch.

"So you're saying he made a catch and nobody touched him, but then he failed to make a football move so he's still in the process of making...."  Nope. We're saying no catch.

He caught the ball as he was going to the ground, so the only way he can establish possession in that scenario is by hanging onto the ball all the way through "the catch process," which includes surviving contact with the ground. His "possession" of the ball didn't survive contact with the ground, as replay clearly shows him bobbling the ball when the ball hits the ground.

It is true that the ground cannot cause a fumble, but in this case the ground didn't cause a fumble; you have to have possession in order to fumble, and he never established possession, because he didn't complete "the catch process." If he'd survived his landing—that is, if he had come down with the ball, and not let the ball touch the ground—then he would've established possession, and if he'd then broken the plane, it would've been a touchdown. But he broke the plane before he'd established possession (and, as it turns out, he never established possession, because once the ball touched the ground, it was an incomplete pass).

Earlier I referenced Edelman's catch in last year's Super Bowl; that was a catch because Edelman had his hands under the ball, so even though Edelman's hands touched the ground, the ball never touched the ground. That needed to happen for James's play to be a catch, but it didn't.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: eja117 on December 18, 2017, 02:06:28 PM
Right but his knee hit the ground. His knee hitting the ground is contact with the ground. At that point he still had possession.

It seems maybe the league is saying even though his knee hit the ground he didn't have the ball long enough to establish himself as a runner. So now he needs to have it the whole way through. And he didn't so it was never a catch.

Seems hair splitting at best.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: nickagneta on December 18, 2017, 02:39:19 PM
Right but his knee hit the ground. His knee hitting the ground is contact with the ground. At that point he still had possession.

It seems maybe the league is saying even though his knee hit the ground he didn't have the ball long enough to establish himself as a runner. So now he needs to have it the whole way through. And he didn't so it was never a catch.

Seems hair splitting at best.
Tbe whole body and especially the hands and ball have to survive the fall to the ground. His knee hit first but the rest of his body was still ralling. When th e final part of his body, his arms and hands carrying the football hit, he didn't maintain possession of the ball and the ball touched the ground. End story. The rule says specifically the the reception must be completed by the letter of the rule before a touchdown can be considered.

Tne s ame thing happened to the Gronk very early in the season. Brady threw him a ball very low and slightly over the goalline. Gronk was falling and when he hit the ground the ball moved so no TD. Its the rule and it pretty fonsistent and has worked for us and against us.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: eja117 on December 18, 2017, 02:47:57 PM
This is the rule

Item 1. Player Going to the Ground. A player is considered to be going to the ground if he does not remain upright long enough to demonstrate that he is clearly a runner. If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball until after his initial contact with the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete.


To me the initial contact with the ground is the knee and he had control when that happened.

So to me either they're saying not enough time to become a runner so he has to have it all the way to the ground or he didn't have control or both.

I'd have to rewatch this a bunch of times in real speed.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: eja117 on December 18, 2017, 02:52:25 PM
To me in one replay it definitely doesn't look like he had it long enough to be a runner and has to have it all the way down and didn't. It reminds me of I think the Buffalo Bill that had the ball in the end zone for a nanosecond until I think Butler popped it out and they said that wasn't long enough to establish a catch.

On a different replay I wasn't as sure.

But I'm not a ref
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on December 18, 2017, 03:00:56 PM
To me in one replay it definitely doesn't look like he had it long enough to be a runner and has to have it all the way down and didn't. It reminds me of I think the Buffalo Bill that had the ball in the end zone for a nanosecond until I think Butler popped it out and they said that wasn't long enough to establish a catch.

On a different replay I wasn't as sure.

But I'm not a ref
The NFL has a full breakdown on what it means to "establish oneself as a runner".

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/completing-a-catch/
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kraidstar on December 18, 2017, 03:01:57 PM
If he's not down by contact because nobody has touched him and he starts to move wouldn't it then be a fumble and recovery?

The knee is the impact with the ground. Not his hands. Right?

The process of James making the catch occurred while he was going to the ground so the knee doesn't matter in this case. If he had made the catch and then took a knee (like so many kick-off returners do), that would be different since he would have demonstrated control of the ball before choosing to be down on his own volition.

TP, I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand, we've seen this rule enforced many times the last few years, they took a TD in the endzone away from Gronk a couple years back due to something similar.

The rule is pretty clear and is designed to prevent ambiguity. When I saw the replay I knew instantly the play would be overturned, this really shouldn't be controversial at all. If you lose control of the ball going to the ground immediately after a catch, it is going to be incomplete every time. If you lose control, you lose the completion. It's simple black and white, the goal line doesn't matter, the knee doesn't matter. There's a protocol for making a catch just like there's a protocol for lining up and snapping an offensive play. If you don't follow this protocol there will be consequences. Dumb play by the receiver.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: eja117 on December 18, 2017, 03:14:11 PM
To me in one replay it definitely doesn't look like he had it long enough to be a runner and has to have it all the way down and didn't. It reminds me of I think the Buffalo Bill that had the ball in the end zone for a nanosecond until I think Butler popped it out and they said that wasn't long enough to establish a catch.

On a different replay I wasn't as sure.

But I'm not a ref
The NFL has a full breakdown on what it means to "establish oneself as a runner".

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/completing-a-catch/
So he didn't maintain control long enough to be a runner because it all happened in less than half a second. Makes sense I suppose.

That video is good and clear with some of the bolded stuff.

You can tell the rule has been written by a committee.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on December 18, 2017, 03:29:50 PM
To me in one replay it definitely doesn't look like he had it long enough to be a runner and has to have it all the way down and didn't. It reminds me of I think the Buffalo Bill that had the ball in the end zone for a nanosecond until I think Butler popped it out and they said that wasn't long enough to establish a catch.

On a different replay I wasn't as sure.

But I'm not a ref
The NFL has a full breakdown on what it means to "establish oneself as a runner".

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/completing-a-catch/
So he didn't maintain control long enough to be a runner because it all happened in less than half a second. Makes sense I suppose.

That video is good and clear with some of the bolded stuff.

You can tell the rule has been written by a committee.
The rulebook clearly demonstrates that "long" is a concept measured in football actions, and not seconds.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: eja117 on December 18, 2017, 04:15:50 PM
To me in one replay it definitely doesn't look like he had it long enough to be a runner and has to have it all the way down and didn't. It reminds me of I think the Buffalo Bill that had the ball in the end zone for a nanosecond until I think Butler popped it out and they said that wasn't long enough to establish a catch.

On a different replay I wasn't as sure.

But I'm not a ref
The NFL has a full breakdown on what it means to "establish oneself as a runner".

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/completing-a-catch/
So he didn't maintain control long enough to be a runner because it all happened in less than half a second. Makes sense I suppose.

That video is good and clear with some of the bolded stuff.

You can tell the rule has been written by a committee.
The rulebook clearly demonstrates that "long" is a concept measured in football actions, and not seconds.
The rulebook says you have to be capable of certain actions like tucking the ball away or turning up field.

He was capable of that is what I would expect Pittsburg to say.

It also says If the player loses the ball while simultaneously touching both feet or any part of his body to the ground, it is not a catch.

So maybe the NFL is saying that he lost it so it doesn't matter.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Neurotic Guy on December 18, 2017, 05:37:09 PM
Last night was yet another addition to the 17 year (and counting) thrill ride that is the Brady/Beichick Patriots.   I dont really care if anyone hates the call or thinks it's the wrong call or thinks it's an NFL conspiracy, the Pats pulled out the miracle and the ride continues for now.

Objectively, I can't fathom why the rule book would make that a 'no catch'.  My eyes tell me he caught it, controlled it, held it, stretched out, broke the plane and scored.  But I'll gladly take it.  What a great game.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Vermont Green on December 18, 2017, 05:41:33 PM
Regarding Garoppolo, I don't see how you can watch that game yesterday and think that he will ever be nearly as good as Brady (or Roethlisberger for that matter).  I think Garoppolo is about Alex Smith at best and let's see if he even achieves that.  He is playing fine but it has been the Bears, Texans, and Titans.  I predict he will not do as well against the Jags and Rams.
The Titans have one of the top defenses in the league (the Steelers, by the way, don't -- that's since you mentioned yesterday's game). Garropolo marched right up their gut to set up his kicker for the game-winning FG. What he's done with the bunch of useless spare parts they served up to him in SF is impressive. Add to this the fact that he took over Brady's team last season and we had no dropoff, and I'm ready to call this.

Also, Garropolo is nothing like Alex Smith. If anything he's  the polar opposite of Alex Smith. He's a QB who will make things happen to win, not just someone who you can trust to not lose you the game.

My comparison to Alex Smith is more in terms of overall level of success achieved, not necessarily style of play.  So Garoppolo may be Alex Smith but with more big plays, more  interceptions and I predict more injuries.  Garappolo is playing well.  I am very happy for him.  Jacoby Brissett is playing well too.  I would not have minded if we got a little bit more for either of them but I do not share your preemptive regret that we traded away a player that is going to be a star for 10 years.  We may have a shot to pick a better QB with the second round pick (that Jimmy is doing his best to diminish).

Oh, and per the bolded note, Jacoby won a game too.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Celtics4ever on December 18, 2017, 06:48:12 PM
Brady just continues to amaze me, dude is the greatest QB ever!  Most guys would feel the pressure in this game but he just wanted the ball back so he could lead his team down the field.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kraidstar on December 18, 2017, 07:06:36 PM
Last night was yet another addition to the 17 year (and counting) thrill ride that is the Brady/Beichick Patriots.   I dont really care if anyone hates the call or thinks it's the wrong call or thinks it's an NFL conspiracy, the Pats pulled out the miracle and the ride continues for now.

Objectively, I can't fathom why the rule book would make that a 'no catch'.  My eyes tell me he caught it, controlled it, held it, stretched out, broke the plane and scored.  But I'll gladly take it.  What a great game.
There is a very good reason for it.

In your scenario a guy could "catch" the ball, immediately go down, and so long as he crosses the plane before he loses control everything is good.

But this opens up a whole can of worms.

What if the ball flies wildly out of the receiver's hands a split second after he crosses the plane? Did he truly establish control if he can't hold on through that simple action? What if he briefly looked like he had control but really didn't? How short a time does he have to have it before he touches the plane for it to count?


The current rule removes all this ambiguity. After a reception you must control the ball all the way through the ground or you don't receive credit for a catch. It doesn't matter what part of the field you're on. Just hold on to the ball all the way through the ground. It's the player's responsibility to know these rules and follow them.


If the Pittsburgh receiver had just barely crossed the plane after the catch and then lost the ball in mid-air and still gotten credit for a TD Pats fans would be livid.


Truth is that football is a very tough game to officiate, and someone is going to be angry every time. Like on that 37-yard reception by Cooks that was called back because he was shoved out of bounds and was the first to touch the ball. He really only had one leg out of bounds for half a second before he jumped back in, and still it was enough. He beat his man but lost the reception due to a technicality. It didn't "feel" right, and yet there are good reasons for the rule.

The best teams - like the Patriots - know the intricacies and use it to their advantage (Malcolm Butler's goal-line strip-fumble earlier in the year for a touchback is a good example). The others are left with excuses and conspiracy theories.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on December 18, 2017, 07:46:49 PM
I mean.. Brady has to be the MVP now, right??

Wentz and AB injured, Wilson has fallen out of it for good pretty much.. it's basically Brady's to lose honestly.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: jambr380 on December 18, 2017, 08:21:07 PM
I mean.. Brady has to be the MVP now, right??

Wentz and AB injured, Wilson has fallen out of it for good pretty much.. it's basically Brady's to lose honestly.

I think he needs to go back to having a positive TD/INT ratio, but Brady should be the front-runner - so long as the Pats win these last two games. Besides, the best football player of all-time should have more than two MVP awards.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on December 18, 2017, 08:27:28 PM
I mean.. Brady has to be the MVP now, right??

Wentz and AB injured, Wilson has fallen out of it for good pretty much.. it's basically Brady's to lose honestly.

I think he needs to go back to having a positive TD/INT ratio, but Brady should be the front-runner - so long as the Pats win these last two games. Besides, the best football player of all-time should have more than two MVP awards.

Right now it's 28:7 TD:INT ratio, but yeah it's been an abysmal 2:4 ratio last 3 games.

Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on December 18, 2017, 09:07:39 PM
I mean.. Brady has to be the MVP now, right??

Wentz and AB injured, Wilson has fallen out of it for good pretty much.. it's basically Brady's to lose honestly.
Brady has been horrible the last three or so games. He might just get it by default because (a) there's not enough time to screw it up completely, and (2) there's noone else who can step up.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on December 18, 2017, 09:25:57 PM
I mean.. Brady has to be the MVP now, right??

Wentz and AB injured, Wilson has fallen out of it for good pretty much.. it's basically Brady's to lose honestly.
Brady has been horrible the last three or so games. He might just get it by default because (a) there's not enough time to screw it up completely, and (2) there's noone else who can step up.

He was horrible against Miami, but I thought he was decent against PIT and BUF.

Obviously only threw 2 TDs combined both those PIT/BUF games, but wasn't horrible.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Neurotic Guy on December 18, 2017, 09:36:17 PM
I mean.. Brady has to be the MVP now, right??

Wentz and AB injured, Wilson has fallen out of it for good pretty much.. it's basically Brady's to lose honestly.
Brady has been horrible the last three or so games. He might just get it by default because (a) there's not enough time to screw it up completely, and (2) there's noone else who can step up.

He was horrible against Miami, but I thought he was decent against PIT and BUF.

Obviously only threw 2 TDs combined both those PIT/BUF games, but wasn't horrible.

Actually not even close to horrible v Buffalo or Pitts.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Fan from VT on December 19, 2017, 07:30:14 PM
I think one problem is we more often have these debates about catch/no catch in the end zone. I did see this article with some quotes from Belicheck himself, and the basic point is this:

- Jesse James, when trying to make that catch, was going to the ground, had a knee down, and was reaching in one motion, but was never touched by a defender.

- If that was ruled a touchdown, it would mean that what he did should be a catch anywhere on the field.

- Since he was never touched, the ground COULD cause a fumble, which means if he was just doing that and trying to get a first down at the 50, the people who want that to be a catch would want that to be a catch and fumble if it happened outside the endzone.


https://sports.yahoo.com/m/404d0149-fb61-3067-b596-f6c5e115bab4/ss_patriots'-bill-belichick.html


So that's the unintended consequences thing, and why rules have definitions. If you want that to be a touchdown, get ready to live with a lot more catch and fumbles.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: nickagneta on December 19, 2017, 07:47:15 PM
I think one problem is we more often have these debates about catch/no catch in the end zone. I did see this article with some quotes from Belicheck himself, and the basic point is this:

- Jesse James, when trying to make that catch, was going to the ground, had a knee down, and was reaching in one motion, but was never touched by a defender.

- If that was ruled a touchdown, it would mean that what he did should be a catch anywhere on the field.

- Since he was never touched, the ground COULD cause a fumble, which means if he was just doing that and trying to get a first down at the 50, the people who want that to be a catch would want that to be a catch and fumble if it happened outside the endzone.


https://sports.yahoo.com/m/404d0149-fb61-3067-b596-f6c5e115bab4/ss_patriots'-bill-belichick.html


So that's the unintended consequences thing, and why rules have definitions. If you want that to be a touchdown, get ready to live with a lot more catch and fumbles.
Not sure what you are trying to say here but whether he was touched or not is inconsequential. No matter where you are on the field, when making a catch while going to the ground, you must maintain complete control of the ball all the way through the entire fall. It doesn't matter where you are or whether you are being touched or have 3 guys on top of you. You must control the ball all the way through the fall.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Boris Badenov on December 19, 2017, 08:07:24 PM
I mean.. Brady has to be the MVP now, right??

Wentz and AB injured, Wilson has fallen out of it for good pretty much.. it's basically Brady's to lose honestly.
Brady has been horrible the last three or so games. He might just get it by default because (a) there's not enough time to screw it up completely, and (2) there's noone else who can step up.

He was horrible against Miami, but I thought he was decent against PIT and BUF.

Obviously only threw 2 TDs combined both those PIT/BUF games, but wasn't horrible.

Actually not even close to horrible v Buffalo or Pitts.

I guess we are at the point where TB can lead a game-winning drive in the last two minutes, on the road, and someone will call his performance "horrible."

Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Neurotic Guy on December 19, 2017, 08:40:25 PM
Last night was yet another addition to the 17 year (and counting) thrill ride that is the Brady/Beichick Patriots.   I dont really care if anyone hates the call or thinks it's the wrong call or thinks it's an NFL conspiracy, the Pats pulled out the miracle and the ride continues for now.

Objectively, I can't fathom why the rule book would make that a 'no catch'.  My eyes tell me he caught it, controlled it, held it, stretched out, broke the plane and scored.  But I'll gladly take it.  What a great game.
There is a very good reason for it.

In your scenario a guy could "catch" the ball, immediately go down, and so long as he crosses the plane before he loses control everything is good.

But this opens up a whole can of worms.

What if the ball flies wildly out of the receiver's hands a split second after he crosses the plane? Did he truly establish control if he can't hold on through that simple action? What if he briefly looked like he had control but really didn't? How short a time does he have to have it before he touches the plane for it to count?


The current rule removes all this ambiguity. After a reception you must control the ball all the way through the ground or you don't receive credit for a catch. It doesn't matter what part of the field you're on. Just hold on to the ball all the way through the ground. It's the player's responsibility to know these rules and follow them.


If the Pittsburgh receiver had just barely crossed the plane after the catch and then lost the ball in mid-air and still gotten credit for a TD Pats fans would be livid.


Truth is that football is a very tough game to officiate, and someone is going to be angry every time. Like on that 37-yard reception by Cooks that was called back because he was shoved out of bounds and was the first to touch the ball. He really only had one leg out of bounds for half a second before he jumped back in, and still it was enough. He beat his man but lost the reception due to a technicality. It didn't "feel" right, and yet there are good reasons for the rule.

The best teams - like the Patriots - know the intricacies and use it to their advantage (Malcolm Butler's goal-line strip-fumble earlier in the year for a touchback is a good example). The others are left with excuses and conspiracy theories.

I understand what you are saying, but it isn't actually always true that you must control the ball all the way to the ground.  A player can catch a ball, run ten yards, fall to the ground, bobble the ball when it touches the ground, and yes, it's a catch.  My point is that my eyes tell me that James controlled the ball before he crossed the plane and the ball hit the ground.  I get the need for objectivity -- but when the eye test tells you it was a catch before the ball goes to the ground, the rules should match the reality.  He caught it, pulled it in, went to the ground, crossed the plane as he reached out with the ball in control (the whole time in complete control of the ball), and then... it hit the ground and the ground loosened his grip.  That play looks like a catch.  If it happened mid-field, it should be a catch and if the ball pops up off the ground it would be a fumble (assuming he really loses the ball and is untouched). It shouldn't be a fumble in the end-zone because the plane was crossed when in control of the ball (this is my opinion, clearly at odds with current rules).   I was thrilled with the call and I understand the current rules and precedent -- I don't dispute the call based on current rules -- but it looks too much like a catch to not be a catch, IMO.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Fan from VT on December 19, 2017, 08:50:17 PM
I think one problem is we more often have these debates about catch/no catch in the end zone. I did see this article with some quotes from Belicheck himself, and the basic point is this:

- Jesse James, when trying to make that catch, was going to the ground, had a knee down, and was reaching in one motion, but was never touched by a defender.

- If that was ruled a touchdown, it would mean that what he did should be a catch anywhere on the field.

- Since he was never touched, the ground COULD cause a fumble, which means if he was just doing that and trying to get a first down at the 50, the people who want that to be a catch would want that to be a catch and fumble if it happened outside the endzone.


https://sports.yahoo.com/m/404d0149-fb61-3067-b596-f6c5e115bab4/ss_patriots'-bill-belichick.html


So that's the unintended consequences thing, and why rules have definitions. If you want that to be a touchdown, get ready to live with a lot more catch and fumbles.
Not sure what you are trying to say here but whether he was touched or not is inconsequential. No matter where you are on the field, when making a catch while going to the ground, you must maintain complete control of the ball all the way through the entire fall. It doesn't matter where you are or whether you are being touched or have 3 guys on top of you. You must control the ball all the way through the fall.

Yes, I agree. Jesse James did not make a catch. The point I was making, that I saw BB make, is that there are a lot of people saying that that was definitely a catch and TD for Jesse James. But, to those people, if that is what you believe, since a "catch" rule has to be universally consistent, then you also have to live with that being a catch, fumble, turnover if it happens at the 50. Would people want that? I don't know.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: nickagneta on December 19, 2017, 08:52:03 PM
Last night was yet another addition to the 17 year (and counting) thrill ride that is the Brady/Beichick Patriots.   I dont really care if anyone hates the call or thinks it's the wrong call or thinks it's an NFL conspiracy, the Pats pulled out the miracle and the ride continues for now.

Objectively, I can't fathom why the rule book would make that a 'no catch'.  My eyes tell me he caught it, controlled it, held it, stretched out, broke the plane and scored.  But I'll gladly take it.  What a great game.
There is a very good reason for it.

In your scenario a guy could "catch" the ball, immediately go down, and so long as he crosses the plane before he loses control everything is good.

But this opens up a whole can of worms.

What if the ball flies wildly out of the receiver's hands a split second after he crosses the plane? Did he truly establish control if he can't hold on through that simple action? What if he briefly looked like he had control but really didn't? How short a time does he have to have it before he touches the plane for it to count?


The current rule removes all this ambiguity. After a reception you must control the ball all the way through the ground or you don't receive credit for a catch. It doesn't matter what part of the field you're on. Just hold on to the ball all the way through the ground. It's the player's responsibility to know these rules and follow them.


If the Pittsburgh receiver had just barely crossed the plane after the catch and then lost the ball in mid-air and still gotten credit for a TD Pats fans would be livid.


Truth is that football is a very tough game to officiate, and someone is going to be angry every time. Like on that 37-yard reception by Cooks that was called back because he was shoved out of bounds and was the first to touch the ball. He really only had one leg out of bounds for half a second before he jumped back in, and still it was enough. He beat his man but lost the reception due to a technicality. It didn't "feel" right, and yet there are good reasons for the rule.

The best teams - like the Patriots - know the intricacies and use it to their advantage (Malcolm Butler's goal-line strip-fumble earlier in the year for a touchback is a good example). The others are left with excuses and conspiracy theories.

I understand what you are saying, but it isn't actually always true that you must control the ball all the way to the ground.  A player can catch a ball, run ten yards, fall to the ground, bobble the ball when it touches the ground, and yes, it's a catch.  My point is that my eyes tell me that James controlled the ball before he crossed the plane and the ball hit the ground.  I get the need for objectivity -- but when the eye test tells you it was a catch before the ball goes to the ground, the rules should match the reality.  He caught it, pulled it in, went to the ground, crossed the plane as he reached out with the ball in control (the whole time in complete control of the ball), and then... it hit the ground and the ground loosened his grip.  That play looks like a catch.  If it happened mid-field, it should be a catch and if the ball pops up off the ground it would be a fumble (assuming he really loses the ball and is untouched). It shouldn't be a fumble in the end-zone because the plane was crossed when in control of the ball (this is my opinion, clearly at odds with current rules).   I was thrilled with the call and I understand the current rules and precedent -- I don't dispute the call based on current rules -- but it looks too much like a catch to not be a catch, IMO.
Except what you are saying didn't happen. James did not fall while catching the ball, control the ball, come to a complete stop to show control through the entire fall, then reach out across the goal line and lose control.

James in one motion while falling during the catch caught the ball, moved it slightly towards his mid section and then reached out across the goal line and before completing the fall and coming to a stop loss control of the ball. Hence, its an incompletion and it doesn't matter where he was on the field.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on December 19, 2017, 08:55:29 PM
Last night was yet another addition to the 17 year (and counting) thrill ride that is the Brady/Beichick Patriots.   I dont really care if anyone hates the call or thinks it's the wrong call or thinks it's an NFL conspiracy, the Pats pulled out the miracle and the ride continues for now.

Objectively, I can't fathom why the rule book would make that a 'no catch'.  My eyes tell me he caught it, controlled it, held it, stretched out, broke the plane and scored.  But I'll gladly take it.  What a great game.
There is a very good reason for it.

In your scenario a guy could "catch" the ball, immediately go down, and so long as he crosses the plane before he loses control everything is good.

But this opens up a whole can of worms.

What if the ball flies wildly out of the receiver's hands a split second after he crosses the plane? Did he truly establish control if he can't hold on through that simple action? What if he briefly looked like he had control but really didn't? How short a time does he have to have it before he touches the plane for it to count?


The current rule removes all this ambiguity. After a reception you must control the ball all the way through the ground or you don't receive credit for a catch. It doesn't matter what part of the field you're on. Just hold on to the ball all the way through the ground. It's the player's responsibility to know these rules and follow them.


If the Pittsburgh receiver had just barely crossed the plane after the catch and then lost the ball in mid-air and still gotten credit for a TD Pats fans would be livid.


Truth is that football is a very tough game to officiate, and someone is going to be angry every time. Like on that 37-yard reception by Cooks that was called back because he was shoved out of bounds and was the first to touch the ball. He really only had one leg out of bounds for half a second before he jumped back in, and still it was enough. He beat his man but lost the reception due to a technicality. It didn't "feel" right, and yet there are good reasons for the rule.

The best teams - like the Patriots - know the intricacies and use it to their advantage (Malcolm Butler's goal-line strip-fumble earlier in the year for a touchback is a good example). The others are left with excuses and conspiracy theories.

I understand what you are saying, but it isn't actually always true that you must control the ball all the way to the ground.  A player can catch a ball, run ten yards, fall to the ground, bobble the ball when it touches the ground, and yes, it's a catch.  My point is that my eyes tell me that James controlled the ball before he crossed the plane and the ball hit the ground.  I get the need for objectivity -- but when the eye test tells you it was a catch before the ball goes to the ground, the rules should match the reality.  He caught it, pulled it in, went to the ground, crossed the plane as he reached out with the ball in control (the whole time in complete control of the ball), and then... it hit the ground and the ground loosened his grip.  That play looks like a catch.  If it happened mid-field, it should be a catch and if the ball pops up off the ground it would be a fumble (assuming he really loses the ball and is untouched). It shouldn't be a fumble in the end-zone because the plane was crossed when in control of the ball (this is my opinion, clearly at odds with current rules).   I was thrilled with the call and I understand the current rules and precedent -- I don't dispute the call based on current rules -- but it looks too much like a catch to not be a catch, IMO.

This situation reminds me of one from the NBA: When a player catches a pass on a fast break, does the step he's taking as he catches the ball count as one of his two allowed steps?

What am I saying, though? It's the NBA; travels are usually encouraged. :P

Regarding your analogy of the midfield catch, I think about Edelman's catch in the last Super Bowl: If his hands had been to the sides of the ball instead of under it, and consequently the ball had touched the ground as Edelman fell to the ground, that wouldn't have been a catch.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on December 21, 2017, 03:33:30 PM
Regarding Garoppolo, I don't see how you can watch that game yesterday and think that he will ever be nearly as good as Brady (or Roethlisberger for that matter).
Are you sure?

https://twitter.com/49ers/status/943711300265295872
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on December 21, 2017, 03:55:56 PM
Having traded him is a tough pill to swallow.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Vermont Green on December 21, 2017, 04:13:14 PM
Regarding Garoppolo, I don't see how you can watch that game yesterday and think that he will ever be nearly as good as Brady (or Roethlisberger for that matter).
Are you sure?

https://twitter.com/49ers/status/943711300265295872

Of course not.  I have been wrong plenty.  But at this point, I don't think Garaoppolo has the arm to be a star QB.  I am sticking with my Alex Smith prediction as his ceiling.  Alex Smith is a decent starting QB who on a good team can take a team a long way.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Vermont Green on December 21, 2017, 04:13:34 PM
Regarding Garoppolo, I don't see how you can watch that game yesterday and think that he will ever be nearly as good as Brady (or Roethlisberger for that matter).
Are you sure?

https://twitter.com/49ers/status/943711300265295872

Of course not.  I have been wrong plenty.  But at this point, I don't think Garaoppolo has the arm to be a star QB.  I am sticking with my Alex Smith prediction as his ceiling.  Alex Smith is a decent starting QB who on a good team can take a team a long way.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on December 21, 2017, 04:49:26 PM
Regarding Garoppolo, I don't see how you can watch that game yesterday and think that he will ever be nearly as good as Brady (or Roethlisberger for that matter).
Are you sure?

https://twitter.com/49ers/status/943711300265295872

Of course not.  I have been wrong plenty.  But at this point, I don't think Garaoppolo has the arm to be a star QB.  I am sticking with my Alex Smith prediction as his ceiling.  Alex Smith is a decent starting QB who on a good team can take a team a long way.
I haven't seen anything that suggests Garoppolo's arm isn't as big as Brady's. As a matter of fact, it seems slightly bigger as he makes big throws downfield with a little less effort and a little more precision than Brady. At least that's what I saw last year. Alex Smith is a small-ball QB. Garoppolo isn't.

Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Neurotic Guy on December 21, 2017, 05:41:07 PM
Regarding Garoppolo, I don't see how you can watch that game yesterday and think that he will ever be nearly as good as Brady (or Roethlisberger for that matter).
Are you sure?

https://twitter.com/49ers/status/943711300265295872

Of course not.  I have been wrong plenty.  But at this point, I don't think Garaoppolo has the arm to be a star QB.  I am sticking with my Alex Smith prediction as his ceiling.  Alex Smith is a decent starting QB who on a good team can take a team a long way.
I haven't seen anything that suggests Garoppolo's arm isn't as big as Brady's. As a matter of fact, it seems slightly bigger as he makes big throws downfield with a little less effort and a little more precision than Brady. At least that's what I saw last year. Alex Smith is a small-ball QB. Garoppolo isn't.

I hope Garoppolo is great.  Who cares? Not me.  We've been treated to the best stretch of football in history by the best coach and QB of all-time.   Jimmy G is irrelevant, especially right now while the GOAT is still toiling at MVP level.  Someday when (if) Brady is no longer good and Garoppolo is great, maybe then I'll feel differently, but for now I am indifferent to JG's success.  There was no way to keep him realistically anyway - and it's useless pout over whether the draft pick we got wasn't as high as it could have been.   Maybe Bill will select Brady's true successor with pick #35.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on December 24, 2017, 01:53:16 PM
I hope Garoppolo is great.  Who cares? Not me.  We've been treated to the best stretch of football in history by the best coach and QB of all-time.   Jimmy G is irrelevant, especially right now while the GOAT is still toiling at MVP level.  Someday when (if) Brady is no longer good and Garoppolo is great, maybe then I'll feel differently, but for now I am indifferent to JG's success.  There was no way to keep him realistically anyway - and it's useless pout over whether the draft pick we got wasn't as high as it could have been.   Maybe Bill will select Brady's true successor with pick #35.
That's the point, though. The GOAT hasn't really toiled at MVP level over the last 5 games.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: eja117 on December 24, 2017, 02:34:33 PM
I dislike super slow mo replay
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: dwlefty13 on December 24, 2017, 02:34:55 PM
May someone explain how that was NOT a catch? Seemed to me Benjamin's foot dragged and had position.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on December 24, 2017, 02:39:37 PM
May someone explain how that was NOT a catch? Seemed to me Benjamin's foot dragged and had position.
He didn't have control when his toe dragged on the turf, and by the time he had, the toe was up and didn't go up again until out of bounds.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on December 24, 2017, 07:10:47 PM
I hope Garoppolo is great.  Who cares? Not me.  We've been treated to the best stretch of football in history by the best coach and QB of all-time.   Jimmy G is irrelevant, especially right now while the GOAT is still toiling at MVP level.  Someday when (if) Brady is no longer good and Garoppolo is great, maybe then I'll feel differently, but for now I am indifferent to JG's success.  There was no way to keep him realistically anyway - and it's useless pout over whether the draft pick we got wasn't as high as it could have been.   Maybe Bill will select Brady's true successor with pick #35.
That's the point, though. The GOAT hasn't really toiled at MVP level over the last 5 games.

Agreed.  While we've been able to squeak out some wins lately, the team (and Brady) have me concerned for the postseason for the first time in years. 
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: CelticsElite on December 24, 2017, 07:32:00 PM
Patriots won. Great season as it winds down
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on December 24, 2017, 07:38:13 PM
I hope Garoppolo is great.  Who cares? Not me.  We've been treated to the best stretch of football in history by the best coach and QB of all-time.   Jimmy G is irrelevant, especially right now while the GOAT is still toiling at MVP level.  Someday when (if) Brady is no longer good and Garoppolo is great, maybe then I'll feel differently, but for now I am indifferent to JG's success.  There was no way to keep him realistically anyway - and it's useless pout over whether the draft pick we got wasn't as high as it could have been.   Maybe Bill will select Brady's true successor with pick #35.
That's the point, though. The GOAT hasn't really toiled at MVP level over the last 5 games.

Agreed.  While we've been able to squeak out some wins lately, the team (and Brady) have me concerned for the postseason for the first time in years.

Plenty of legitimate reasons to be concerned. Gilmore and Butler can't defend a chair right now, and there are lots of injuries on offense AND defense. And Brady hasn't been too sharp for the last month, though he looked really good in the second half of today's game. Hopefully they end up with most of the injured players back (Burkhead, White, Van Noy) and Brady gets in a groove in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: A Future of Stevens on December 24, 2017, 09:37:44 PM
I hope Garoppolo is great.  Who cares? Not me.  We've been treated to the best stretch of football in history by the best coach and QB of all-time.   Jimmy G is irrelevant, especially right now while the GOAT is still toiling at MVP level.  Someday when (if) Brady is no longer good and Garoppolo is great, maybe then I'll feel differently, but for now I am indifferent to JG's success.  There was no way to keep him realistically anyway - and it's useless pout over whether the draft pick we got wasn't as high as it could have been.   Maybe Bill will select Brady's true successor with pick #35.
That's the point, though. The GOAT hasn't really toiled at MVP level over the last 5 games.

Agreed.  While we've been able to squeak out some wins lately, the team (and Brady) have me concerned for the postseason for the first time in years.

Plenty of legitimate reasons to be concerned. Gilmore and Butler can't defend a chair right now, and there are lots of injuries on offense AND defense. And Brady hasn't been too sharp for the last month, though he looked really good in the second half of today's game. Hopefully they end up with most of the injured players back (Burkhead, White, Van Noy) and Brady gets in a groove in the playoffs.

Don t forget Hogan.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on December 25, 2017, 11:21:02 AM
May someone explain how that was NOT a catch? Seemed to me Benjamin's foot dragged and had position.

It was a catch, but even if it wasn't by a mere few centimeters or such, there was no conclusive evidence, and the refs should not have overturned the call there (since call on the field was a TD). Many agree with that.

Bills got robbed there to be honest, and I'm a die-hard Pats fan admitting that.

But that play is NOT the reason the Bills lost either. They got vastly outplayed the final 25 minutes of the game and couldn't stop Dion Lewis at all.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on December 26, 2017, 10:33:40 AM
Regarding Garoppolo, I don't see how you can watch that game yesterday and think that he will ever be nearly as good as Brady (or Roethlisberger for that matter).  I think Garoppolo is about Alex Smith at best and let's see if he even achieves that.  He is playing fine but it has been the Bears, Texans, and Titans.  I predict he will not do as well against the Jags and Rams.
The Titans have one of the top defenses in the league (the Steelers, by the way, don't -- that's since you mentioned yesterday's game). Garropolo marched right up their gut to set up his kicker for the game-winning FG. What he's done with the bunch of useless spare parts they served up to him in SF is impressive. Add to this the fact that he took over Brady's team last season and we had no dropoff, and I'm ready to call this.
I'll self-servingly quote myself to point out that after hanging 44 points on the Jags (with a team  that couldn't win a game before he showed up), it's time to put the "Is Jimmy G for real" debate to bed.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on December 26, 2017, 05:09:40 PM
Pats signed James Harrison.  I'm sure he's close to cooked.  But he recorded 5 sacks last year, and if he makes one big play in the playoffs, it'll be well worth it.  Vets are invaluable come championship time.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: nickagneta on December 26, 2017, 05:30:46 PM
Pats signed James Harrison.  I'm sure he's close to cooked.  But he recorded 5 sacks last year, and if he makes one big play in the playoffs, it'll be well worth it.  Vets are invaluable come championship time.
Think he's cooked too but he probably can still give us a better pass rush than 90% of our players.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on December 26, 2017, 05:43:20 PM
Pats signed James Harrison.  I'm sure he's close to cooked.  But he recorded 5 sacks last year, and if he makes one big play in the playoffs, it'll be well worth it.  Vets are invaluable come championship time.
Think he's cooked too but he probably can still give us a better pass rush than 90% of our players.

Yep, sad but true.  During last night's broadcast of the Eagles game they mentioned that Chris Long donated his salary to charity.  Thought that was pretty cool.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Ilikesports17 on December 26, 2017, 05:59:31 PM
Pats signed James Harrison.  I'm sure he's close to cooked.  But he recorded 5 sacks last year, and if he makes one big play in the playoffs, it'll be well worth it.  Vets are invaluable come championship time.
Think he's cooked too but he probably can still give us a better pass rush than 90% of our players.

Yep, sad but true.  During last night's broadcast of the Eagles game they mentioned that Chris Long donated his salary to charity.  Thought that was pretty cool.
From what I've seen and read he seems to still be a pretty good pass rusher in spurts. Problem is that the rest of his game has really fallen off.

Don't expect him to be anything more than a situational pass rusher and he should be able to do that job as well as anyone we've got save Flowers.

Another bright side to this is that he has historically dominated against Baltimore and KC in fact one of the few games he's been active this year, he tortured Eric Fisher. Those are two of the more likely divisional matchups for us.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: wayupnorth on December 26, 2017, 08:20:32 PM
Regarding Garoppolo, I don't see how you can watch that game yesterday and think that he will ever be nearly as good as Brady (or Roethlisberger for that matter).  I think Garoppolo is about Alex Smith at best and let's see if he even achieves that.  He is playing fine but it has been the Bears, Texans, and Titans.  I predict he will not do as well against the Jags and Rams.
The Titans have one of the top defenses in the league (the Steelers, by the way, don't -- that's since you mentioned yesterday's game). Garropolo marched right up their gut to set up his kicker for the game-winning FG. What he's done with the bunch of useless spare parts they served up to him in SF is impressive. Add to this the fact that he took over Brady's team last season and we had no dropoff, and I'm ready to call this.
I'll self-servingly quote myself to point out that after hanging 44 points on the Jags (with a team  that couldn't win a game before he showed up), it's time to put the "Is Jimmy G for real" debate to bed.

As a 49er fan, that comparison of Alex and Jimmy makes me laugh.

(I know it wasn't you that made it Koz).

Honestly they aren't similar at all.

Jimmy GQ is a baller.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Ilikesports17 on December 27, 2017, 05:17:01 PM
Regarding Garoppolo, I don't see how you can watch that game yesterday and think that he will ever be nearly as good as Brady (or Roethlisberger for that matter).  I think Garoppolo is about Alex Smith at best and let's see if he even achieves that.  He is playing fine but it has been the Bears, Texans, and Titans.  I predict he will not do as well against the Jags and Rams.
The Titans have one of the top defenses in the league (the Steelers, by the way, don't -- that's since you mentioned yesterday's game). Garropolo marched right up their gut to set up his kicker for the game-winning FG. What he's done with the bunch of useless spare parts they served up to him in SF is impressive. Add to this the fact that he took over Brady's team last season and we had no dropoff, and I'm ready to call this.
I'll self-servingly quote myself to point out that after hanging 44 points on the Jags (with a team  that couldn't win a game before he showed up), it's time to put the "Is Jimmy G for real" debate to bed.
He has been for real, but how many young QBs look amazing and then taper off after people get film of them etc?

I think Jimmy is a stud, but lets wait and see if he can replicate some of this next year before we go around talking like his future is set in stone.

Plenty of people are regretting some of their RGIII and Dak Prescott takes to this day.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: PhoSita on December 27, 2017, 06:01:04 PM
Pats signed James Harrison.  I'm sure he's close to cooked.  But he recorded 5 sacks last year, and if he makes one big play in the playoffs, it'll be well worth it.  Vets are invaluable come championship time.
Think he's cooked too but he probably can still give us a better pass rush than 90% of our players.

he's at least a name that other teams have to think about for a moment.  more than can be said for several of the guys getting snaps on the Pats currently
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Ilikesports17 on December 27, 2017, 06:13:47 PM
Pats signed James Harrison.  I'm sure he's close to cooked.  But he recorded 5 sacks last year, and if he makes one big play in the playoffs, it'll be well worth it.  Vets are invaluable come championship time.
Think he's cooked too but he probably can still give us a better pass rush than 90% of our players.

he's at least a name that other teams have to think about for a moment.  more than can be said for several of the guys getting snaps on the Pats currently
names dont win games.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on December 27, 2017, 06:36:44 PM
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/steelers-players-rip-james-harrison-claim-that-he-forced-his-way-out-of-pittsburgh/

LOL the Steelers are acting so salty over this (besides Big Ben, who was a class act about it). Their fans too.

I mean, they realize Harrison got cut, right? And they are complaining that Harrison wanted out, but come on, he only got like 40 snaps the entire season. Can you really blame him? And it's not like Pittsburgh had to release him. Could have simply kept him for depth in the playoffs, and to keep him from going to NE or Baltimore (another team rumored to have been in on him).

Oh well, their loss is our gain. Not expecting a ton but I definitely feel he can make an impact and a few plays during the playoffs that help us.  ;D
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: GetLucky on December 27, 2017, 06:42:54 PM
Pats signed James Harrison.  I'm sure he's close to cooked.  But he recorded 5 sacks last year, and if he makes one big play in the playoffs, it'll be well worth it.  Vets are invaluable come championship time.
Think he's cooked too but he probably can still give us a better pass rush than 90% of our players.

he's at least a name that other teams have to think about for a moment.  more than can be said for several of the guys getting snaps on the Pats currently
names dont win games.

Knowing the opponent's defensive game plan does, though. This signing will pay dividends if the Pats play Pittsburgh in the AFC Championship game.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: eja117 on December 27, 2017, 07:08:45 PM
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/steelers-players-rip-james-harrison-claim-that-he-forced-his-way-out-of-pittsburgh/

LOL the Steelers are acting so salty over this (besides Big Ben, who was a class act about it). Their fans too.

I mean, they realize Harrison got cut, right? And they are complaining that Harrison wanted out, but come on, he only got like 40 snaps the entire season. Can you really blame him? And it's not like Pittsburgh had to release him. Could have simply kept him for depth in the playoffs, and to keep him from going to NE or Baltimore (another team rumored to have been in on him).

Oh well, their loss is our gain. Not expecting a ton but I definitely feel he can make an impact and a few plays during the playoffs that help us.  ;D
What a joke! Do they think he just woke up one morning in a bad mood and decided he didn't want to play for the Steelers one morning for no real reason?
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Ilikesports17 on December 27, 2017, 07:32:06 PM
Pats signed James Harrison.  I'm sure he's close to cooked.  But he recorded 5 sacks last year, and if he makes one big play in the playoffs, it'll be well worth it.  Vets are invaluable come championship time.
Think he's cooked too but he probably can still give us a better pass rush than 90% of our players.

he's at least a name that other teams have to think about for a moment.  more than can be said for several of the guys getting snaps on the Pats currently
names dont win games.

Knowing the opponent's defensive game plan does, though. This signing will pay dividends if the Pats play Pittsburgh in the AFC Championship game.
The Steelers entire game plan is on film already.

Harrison wont help in that regard.

He matches up really well with our 2 most likely divisional opponents (KC and Baltimore), and provides an element to our defense that is currently lacking(situational pass rusher) thats why he might help.

Hes useless in coverage and against the run. He is a 1 dimensional player who can rush the passer.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on December 27, 2017, 07:55:18 PM
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/steelers-players-rip-james-harrison-claim-that-he-forced-his-way-out-of-pittsburgh/

LOL the Steelers are acting so salty over this (besides Big Ben, who was a class act about it). Their fans too.

I mean, they realize Harrison got cut, right? And they are complaining that Harrison wanted out, but come on, he only got like 40 snaps the entire season. Can you really blame him? And it's not like Pittsburgh had to release him. Could have simply kept him for depth in the playoffs, and to keep him from going to NE or Baltimore (another team rumored to have been in on him).

Oh well, their loss is our gain. Not expecting a ton but I definitely feel he can make an impact and a few plays during the playoffs that help us.  ;D
What a joke! Do they think he just woke up one morning in a bad mood and decided he didn't want to play for the Steelers one morning for no real reason?

LOL and Pouncey says "his legacy in Pittsburgh is tarnished forever". Oh please.. his legacy in PIT is WAY BIGGER than yours...  ::)
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: SparzWizard on December 27, 2017, 08:57:20 PM
Pats signed James Harrison.  I'm sure he's close to cooked.  But he recorded 5 sacks last year, and if he makes one big play in the playoffs, it'll be well worth it.  Vets are invaluable come championship time.
Think he's cooked too but he probably can still give us a better pass rush than 90% of our players.

he's at least a name that other teams have to think about for a moment.  more than can be said for several of the guys getting snaps on the Pats currently
names dont win games.

Knowing the opponent's defensive game plan does, though. This signing will pay dividends if the Pats play Pittsburgh in the AFC Championship game.

Tom Brady knows the Steelers' playbook more than the Steelers' coaching staffs do. That's why he beats them year after year lol.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on December 27, 2017, 10:25:55 PM
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/steelers-players-rip-james-harrison-claim-that-he-forced-his-way-out-of-pittsburgh/

LOL the Steelers are acting so salty over this (besides Big Ben, who was a class act about it). Their fans too.

I mean, they realize Harrison got cut, right? And they are complaining that Harrison wanted out, but come on, he only got like 40 snaps the entire season. Can you really blame him? And it's not like Pittsburgh had to release him. Could have simply kept him for depth in the playoffs, and to keep him from going to NE or Baltimore (another team rumored to have been in on him).

Oh well, their loss is our gain. Not expecting a ton but I definitely feel he can make an impact and a few plays during the playoffs that help us.  ;D
What a joke! Do they think he just woke up one morning in a bad mood and decided he didn't want to play for the Steelers one morning for no real reason?

LOL and Pouncey says "his legacy in Pittsburgh is tarnished forever". Oh please.. his legacy in PIT is WAY BIGGER than yours...  ::)

Yeah, I don't get the hostility from Steelers fans towards Harrison. He's one of the best defensive players in Pittsburgh history—which is saying a lot—and his 100-yard pick-6 was a primary reason they beat the Cardinals in the Super Bowl. Besides that, he's played in only 5 games this season, so it's not like they really wanted him around.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: wayupnorth on December 27, 2017, 10:35:14 PM
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/steelers-players-rip-james-harrison-claim-that-he-forced-his-way-out-of-pittsburgh/

LOL the Steelers are acting so salty over this (besides Big Ben, who was a class act about it). Their fans too.

I mean, they realize Harrison got cut, right? And they are complaining that Harrison wanted out, but come on, he only got like 40 snaps the entire season. Can you really blame him? And it's not like Pittsburgh had to release him. Could have simply kept him for depth in the playoffs, and to keep him from going to NE or Baltimore (another team rumored to have been in on him).

Oh well, their loss is our gain. Not expecting a ton but I definitely feel he can make an impact and a few plays during the playoffs that help us.  ;D
What a joke! Do they think he just woke up one morning in a bad mood and decided he didn't want to play for the Steelers one morning for no real reason?

LOL and Pouncey says "his legacy in Pittsburgh is tarnished forever". Oh please.. his legacy in PIT is WAY BIGGER than yours...  ::)

Yeah, I don't get the hostility from Steelers fans towards Harrison. He's one of the best defensive players in Pittsburgh history—which is saying a lot—and his 100-yard pick-6 was a primary reason they beat the Cardinals in the Super Bowl. Besides that, he's played in only 5 games this season, so it's not like they really wanted him around.

Rational or not, how don't you get their saltiness?

He complained about his role on the team to the point of getting cut, and then signed with their biggest current threat.

Was it unfair of Harrison to do what he did, or for the Patriots to sign him? I certainly don't think so.

But you can't understand why Steelers fans are upset about It?

Really?
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on December 27, 2017, 10:58:54 PM
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/steelers-players-rip-james-harrison-claim-that-he-forced-his-way-out-of-pittsburgh/

LOL the Steelers are acting so salty over this (besides Big Ben, who was a class act about it). Their fans too.

I mean, they realize Harrison got cut, right? And they are complaining that Harrison wanted out, but come on, he only got like 40 snaps the entire season. Can you really blame him? And it's not like Pittsburgh had to release him. Could have simply kept him for depth in the playoffs, and to keep him from going to NE or Baltimore (another team rumored to have been in on him).

Oh well, their loss is our gain. Not expecting a ton but I definitely feel he can make an impact and a few plays during the playoffs that help us.  ;D
What a joke! Do they think he just woke up one morning in a bad mood and decided he didn't want to play for the Steelers one morning for no real reason?

LOL and Pouncey says "his legacy in Pittsburgh is tarnished forever". Oh please.. his legacy in PIT is WAY BIGGER than yours...  ::)

Yeah, I don't get the hostility from Steelers fans towards Harrison. He's one of the best defensive players in Pittsburgh history—which is saying a lot—and his 100-yard pick-6 was a primary reason they beat the Cardinals in the Super Bowl. Besides that, he's played in only 5 games this season, so it's not like they really wanted him around.

Rational or not, how don't you get their saltiness?

He complained about his role on the team to the point of getting cut, and then signed with their biggest current threat.

Was it unfair of Harrison to do what he did, or for the Patriots to sign him? I certainly don't think so.

But you can't understand why Steelers fans are upset about It?

Really?

Seems to me the Steelers were pretty much done with him, but he feels he's still capable of being a bigger contributor than how they were using him, so he wanted a chance to play elsewhere. I understand why they'd be salty about him going to the Patriots, but I don't think they should be upset that he wanted a chance to do more somewhere else.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: eja117 on December 31, 2017, 03:43:43 PM
The Jets are making me all the more confident there are college teams that could do better in the NFL than pro teams
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: eja117 on December 31, 2017, 04:12:59 PM
Watching James Harrison get sacks is a special kind of fun
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on December 31, 2017, 08:44:14 PM
WOW! Baltimore lost!  :o  ;D

They let Andy Dalton and the Bengals drive 90 yards on them in less than 2 minutes and got eliminated LOL. Thank god! (I truthfully didn't want to face Baltimore in the playoffs)

Also, Buffalo's playoff drought is now over.

So the playoff field is officially set.

NFC is (1) Eagles, (2) Vikings, (3) Rams, (4) Saints, (5) Panthers, (6) Falcons

AFC is (1) Patriots, (2) Steelers, (3) Jaguars, (4) Chiefs, (5) Titans, (6) Bills

Wild card matchups are CAR @ NO, ATL @ LAR, BUF @ JAX, TEN @ KC.

So New England will either face KC, Tennessee, or Buffalo in the Divisional Game.

Personally, I hope we play either BUF or TEN. KC is a tough team that always seems to give us trouble (like Baltimore, which is why I'm GLAD they are eliminated), and frankly I like our chances in a home January playoff game against either of these inexperienced sides. That said, if we match up against BUF, it will be the third time this season they meet, so it probably wouldn't be a cakewalk either (unless LeSean McCoy is injured and out for a while, which seems unlikely).

Also, I kind of want Pittsburgh to face JAX in the divisional round (they give the Steelers fits it seems), since PIT seems to have KC's number as well, and Pittsburgh can either play KC, JAX, or TEN in the divisional round, and PIT also smoked TEN earlier in the season. So we'll see.

What do you guys think? And who do you want NE to face 2 weeks from now?
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: SparzWizard on December 31, 2017, 08:48:56 PM
WOW! Baltimore lost!  :o  ;D

They let Andy Dalton and the Bengals drive 90 yards on them in less than 2 minutes and got eliminated LOL. Thank god! (I truthfully didn't want to face Baltimore in the playoffs)

Also, Buffalo's playoff drought is now over.

So the playoff field is officially set.

NFC is (1) Eagles, (2) Vikings, (3) Rams, (4) Saints, (5) Panthers, (6) Falcons

AFC is (1) Patriots, (2) Steelers, (3) Jaguars, (4) Chiefs, (5) Titans, (6) Bills

Wild card matchups are CAR @ NO, ATL @ LAR, BUF @ JAX, TEN @ KC.

So New England will either face KC, Tennessee, or Buffalo in the Divisional Game.

Personally, I hope we play either BUF or TEN. KC is a tough team that always seems to give us trouble (like Baltimore, which is why I'm GLAD they are eliminated), and frankly I like our chances in a home January playoff game against either of these inexperienced sides. That said, if we match up against BUF, it will be the third time this season they meet, so it probably wouldn't be a cakewalk either (unless LeSean McCoy is injured and out for a while, which seems unlikely).

Also, I kind of want Pittsburgh to face JAX in the divisional round (they give the Steelers fits it seems), since PIT seems to have KC's number as well, and Pittsburgh can either play KC, JAX, or TEN in the divisional round, and PIT also smoked TEN earlier in the season. So we'll see.

What do you guys think? And who do you want NE to face 2 weeks from now?

The Titans. Because they don't face the Patriots that often therefore not enough information to obtain plus the lack of experience. The Bills' run D is also porous so they can take advantage of that too.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Ilikesports17 on December 31, 2017, 08:54:01 PM
Seems overwhelmingly likely that we get KC.

Feel good about that matchup.

Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on December 31, 2017, 08:55:01 PM
WOW! Baltimore lost!  :o  ;D

They let Andy Dalton and the Bengals drive 90 yards on them in less than 2 minutes and got eliminated LOL. Thank god! (I truthfully didn't want to face Baltimore in the playoffs)

Also, Buffalo's playoff drought is now over.

So the playoff field is officially set.

NFC is (1) Eagles, (2) Vikings, (3) Rams, (4) Saints, (5) Panthers, (6) Falcons

AFC is (1) Patriots, (2) Steelers, (3) Jaguars, (4) Chiefs, (5) Titans, (6) Bills

Wild card matchups are CAR @ NO, ATL @ LAR, BUF @ JAX, TEN @ KC.

So New England will either face KC, Tennessee, or Buffalo in the Divisional Game.

Personally, I hope we play either BUF or TEN. KC is a tough team that always seems to give us trouble (like Baltimore, which is why I'm GLAD they are eliminated), and frankly I like our chances in a home January playoff game against either of these inexperienced sides. That said, if we match up against BUF, it will be the third time this season they meet, so it probably wouldn't be a cakewalk either (unless LeSean McCoy is injured and out for a while, which seems unlikely).

Also, I kind of want Pittsburgh to face JAX in the divisional round (they give the Steelers fits it seems), since PIT seems to have KC's number as well, and Pittsburgh can either play KC, JAX, or TEN in the divisional round, and PIT also smoked TEN earlier in the season. So we'll see.

What do you guys think? And who do you want NE to face 2 weeks from now?

The Titans. Because they don't face the Patriots that often therefore not enough information to obtain plus the lack of experience. The Bills' run D is also porous so they can take advantage of that too.

Yep, Dion Lewis will run over either team and Burkhead, White should come back healthy by then and help a ton as well.  ;D
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on December 31, 2017, 08:56:13 PM
Seems overwhelmingly likely that we get KC.

Feel good about that matchup.

I feel a lot better about it than before (when KC blew us out and had that insane start to the season before struggling a lot).

Still, they aren't an easy team and are just as capable to pull off the upset @Foxboro.

I'm really hoping we get back a lot of our guys healthy by then. Going to need it too.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: SparzWizard on December 31, 2017, 09:02:18 PM
Seems overwhelmingly likely that we get KC.

Feel good about that matchup.

I feel a lot better about it than before (when KC blew us out and had that insane start to the season before struggling a lot).

Still, they aren't an easy team and are just as capable to pull off the upset @Foxboro.

I'm really hoping we get back a lot of our guys healthy by then. Going to need it too.

No Eric Berry, but they'll double up on Gronk. What concerns me is whether the Patriots offense will click or not. We need big games from the receiving corps on top of the running game. The defense needs to step it up; I don't want to see another Week 1 performance.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on December 31, 2017, 09:11:20 PM
Seems overwhelmingly likely that we get KC.

Feel good about that matchup.

I feel a lot better about it than before (when KC blew us out and had that insane start to the season before struggling a lot).

Still, they aren't an easy team and are just as capable to pull off the upset @Foxboro.

I'm really hoping we get back a lot of our guys healthy by then. Going to need it too.

No Eric Berry, but they'll double up on Gronk. What concerns me is whether the Patriots offense will click or not. We need big games from the receiving corps on top of the running game. The defense needs to step it up; I don't want to see another Week 1 performance.

I trust the defense will do a lot better to be honest.

If you recall in Week 1, a good chunk of the defense was filled w/new guys and practice squad guys who had to play due to some last minute trades and injuries, so they obviously didn't really know the game-plan either or memorize the playbook (which made it difficult for Matt Patricia and also led to lots of mis-communications).

But yeah, hopefully the offense can click and a lot of the injured guys can come back (Hogan, Malcolm Mitchell, Burkhead, White, etc.)
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on January 07, 2018, 04:40:11 PM
AFC Divisional Round match ups are set!

Tennessee Titans @ New England Patriots on Saturday, 8:15 PM EST (CBS)

Jacksonville Jaguars @ Pittsburgh Steelers on Sunday, 1:05 PM EST (CBS)

GO PATS! #OnToTennessee #NotDone  ;D  8)

Honestly, this was probably our best case scenario. Pittsburgh plays a tough JAX team in the divisional round (not easy), while the Patriots AVOID KC (probably their biggest threat out of the three possible opponents they could have faced this Saturday) and play a somewhat mediocre Titans team.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Jiri Welsch on January 07, 2018, 04:53:34 PM
Down with the Titans!!
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: green_bballers13 on January 07, 2018, 05:05:47 PM
I would much rather watch Tenn than Buffalo again. Not that Tenn plays a pretty brand of football, but it will be more exciting to see a new cast of characters. Buffalo can be tough to watch at times, esp b/c of their quarterbacking issues. I hope Tyrod is ok.

Teams that should beat the Pats in the playoffs: 0
Teams that can beat the Pats in the playoffs: Pitt, Jax, Minn, Atl (jk, 28-3), KC, Carolina
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: knuckleballer on January 07, 2018, 05:12:28 PM
I would much rather watch Tenn than Buffalo again. Not that Tenn plays a pretty brand of football, but it will be more exciting to see a new cast of characters. Buffalo can be tough to watch at times, esp b/c of their quarterbacking issues. I hope Tyrod is ok.

Teams that should beat the Pats in the playoffs: 0
Teams that can beat the Pats in the playoffs: Pitt, Jax, Minn, Atl (jk, 28-3), KC, Carolina

I'm glad Tennessee won and Buffalo lost.  I would not want to give anyone a third chance in the same season.

Any playoff team can beat the Pats. The Pats aren't dominant this season and anything can happen.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Neurotic Guy on January 07, 2018, 05:17:38 PM
I would much rather watch Tenn than Buffalo again. Not that Tenn plays a pretty brand of football, but it will be more exciting to see a new cast of characters. Buffalo can be tough to watch at times, esp b/c of their quarterbacking issues. I hope Tyrod is ok.

Teams that should beat the Pats in the playoffs: 0
Teams that can beat the Pats in the playoffs: Pitt, Jax, Minn, Atl (jk, 28-3), KC, Carolina

I'm glad Tennessee won and Buffalo lost.  I would not want to give anyone a third chance in the same season.

Any playoff team can beat the Pats. The Pats aren't dominant this season and anything can happen.

Not so glad now that Buffalo lost considering Mr. Peterman would likely be the QB next week.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: green_bballers13 on January 07, 2018, 05:20:48 PM
I would much rather watch Tenn than Buffalo again. Not that Tenn plays a pretty brand of football, but it will be more exciting to see a new cast of characters. Buffalo can be tough to watch at times, esp b/c of their quarterbacking issues. I hope Tyrod is ok.

Teams that should beat the Pats in the playoffs: 0
Teams that can beat the Pats in the playoffs: Pitt, Jax, Minn, Atl (jk, 28-3), KC, Carolina

I'm glad Tennessee won and Buffalo lost.  I would not want to give anyone a third chance in the same season.

Any playoff team can beat the Pats. The Pats aren't dominant this season and anything can happen.

Not so glad now that Buffalo lost considering Mr. Peterman would likely be the QB next week.

As a Pats fan, I'm not worried about Tenn or Buffalo. I imagine the Pats are 10+ pt favorites next weekend. For entertainment purposes, I'd rather see Mariota over Peterman.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: green_bballers13 on January 07, 2018, 05:31:05 PM
I would much rather watch Tenn than Buffalo again. Not that Tenn plays a pretty brand of football, but it will be more exciting to see a new cast of characters. Buffalo can be tough to watch at times, esp b/c of their quarterbacking issues. I hope Tyrod is ok.

Teams that should beat the Pats in the playoffs: 0
Teams that can beat the Pats in the playoffs: Pitt, Jax, Minn, Atl (jk, 28-3), KC, Carolina

I'm glad Tennessee won and Buffalo lost.  I would not want to give anyone a third chance in the same season.

Any playoff team can beat the Pats. The Pats aren't dominant this season and anything can happen.

I'm aware of the Any Given Sunday spiel. Not accounting for outliers, the Pats should win home playoff games against the borderline teams still in the playoffs, including Tenn and Jacksonville. I think Pitt is the 2nd best team in the NFL, and would pose a bigger challenge than any of the NFC teams.

Philly- Foles schmoles. I think they are the worst team in the NFC playoffs.
Minny- Case Keenum over TB12? Brady has beaten better defenses, including Seattle a couple of years ago
Atlanta- Not as good as the team that lost to the Patriots in the SB. Would make a great story of perseverance/surviving epic collapses.
Carolina-Tough defense. Cam seems to be hot/cold which isn't great for their chances.
New Orleans- Would be a fun, 49-42 game.

My Ranking: NE, Pitt, Atl, Minny, NO, Car, Philly
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: SparzWizard on January 14, 2018, 12:21:35 AM
7th straight AFCCG appearance!
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: OnPoint on January 14, 2018, 12:24:58 AM
At what point do we start comparing this Patriots run to the 60’s Celtics?
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on January 14, 2018, 03:55:13 AM
At what point do we start comparing this Patriots run to the 60’s Celtics?

If they win this year, I'd say.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: eja117 on January 14, 2018, 08:40:59 AM
I heard it's been so long since the Patriots weren't in the AFC Championship that people just forgot when the last time they weren't in. Scientists are trying to cross reference ancient Babylonian cuneiform with Linear B tablets from Crete and passages from Exodus. They did find a reference to New Englanders becoming too proud so God sent angels to smite them, but nobody knows if this is a reference to Mark Sanchez and the Jets or the Anaheim Angels in baseball.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on January 14, 2018, 12:39:13 PM
You might as well name the AFC Championship Game, the "Tom Brady Invitational"  :laugh:
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: green_bballers13 on January 14, 2018, 01:04:27 PM
I realize how ridiculous/spoiled this statement sounds:

It must have stunk to follow a team not named NE for the last 18 years.

Pitt, Den, NYG, Sea, etc etc have all been frustrating teams for longer stretches. NE has had a legitimate chance to win almost every year since 2000. Wild.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: liam on January 14, 2018, 02:23:26 PM
I realize how ridiculous/spoiled this statement sounds:

It must have stunk to follow a team not named NE for the last 18 years.

Pitt, Den, NYG, Sea, etc etc have all been frustrating teams for longer stretches. NE has had a legitimate chance to win almost every year since 2000. Wild.

I've been following The Pats since the Jim Plunkett days. The Patriots fans, who were very long suffering deserved a run like this.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: A Future of Stevens on January 14, 2018, 04:17:36 PM
How are people feeling about Jaguars vs Patriots in Foxboro next week? Their defense gives me a ton of pause.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: hpantazo on January 14, 2018, 04:20:31 PM
How are people feeling about Jaguars vs Patriots in Foxboro next week? Their defense gives me a ton of pause.

Would you have preferred the Steelers?
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on January 14, 2018, 04:26:46 PM
How are people feeling about Jaguars vs Patriots in Foxboro next week? Their defense gives me a ton of pause.

Jags D is really good, and the thought of potentially losing to a team led by Blake Bortles is nauseating (like losing to the Joe Flacco Ravens), but the Patriots do seem to be rounding into form—their D has been better, Hogan and White are back, Lewis is on a roll, they have Gronk this postseason, they'll be playing at home, and they’ll (hopefully) have Alan Branch back to help slow Leonard Fournette. I expect a tough game, a close game, but the odds are in New England’s favor.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: A Future of Stevens on January 14, 2018, 04:33:32 PM
How are people feeling about Jaguars vs Patriots in Foxboro next week? Their defense gives me a ton of pause.

Would you have preferred the Steelers?

No. I'm pretty happy about this whole thing to be honest.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: hpantazo on January 14, 2018, 05:17:46 PM
How are people feeling about Jaguars vs Patriots in Foxboro next week? Their defense gives me a ton of pause.

Would you have preferred the Steelers?

No. I'm pretty happy about this whole thing to be honest.


Yeah, anything can happen of course, but we are very fortunate thus far.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: jambr380 on January 14, 2018, 06:26:27 PM
They did just give up 42 points to the Steelers and that could have been much worse without the two first half TOs and/or the two 4th and inches plays that Pitt missed on (I realize they also got extremely lucky on two 4th and long plays for TDs).

The Jags definitely pose a threat, but I assume BB will try to limit Fournette's effectiveness and make Bortles beat them. We actually have a very good defensive backfield so we should hold our own there. McDaniels and Brady will really need to mix it up on offense. As we saw today, their defense can be scored on.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: esel1000 on January 14, 2018, 08:24:48 PM
The remaining QBs: Brady, Bortles, Keenum, Foles.

Wow.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kraidstar on January 14, 2018, 08:25:07 PM
Saints just gave the game away against the Vikings...

I have mixed feelings about that in regards to how it affects the Pats in a potential SB run.

On one hand, the VIkings are probably the most complete team in the playoffs, and they have the kind of D that could give the Pats major problems. They also potentially would have home field advantage in the Super Bowl.

OTOH, I still don't fully trust Keenum on the big stage. That Vikes offense was horrible in the second half, and they honestly got really lucky on that last play. Really the game was an epic choke job bty Minny alleviated by one truly horrible Saints tackle attempt.

It's also nice having a clutch QB like Brees out of the playoffs. That Saints team is good but not great, I saw them as a similar but lesser version of the pats. It was a matchup we probably would have won by 7-10 points. But good QB's can elevate their teams in the big moments, so there was a danger there.

The Vikes are a more unfamiliar entity and have that nasty D.

I think at this point I'm hoping the Eagles knock them off so we can face Foles in the SB, that guy pretty much stinks.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: eja117 on January 14, 2018, 08:30:48 PM
I just went to the Steelers Facebook page and ....I just don't have it in me to trash talk them. I just can't
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on January 14, 2018, 08:44:57 PM
I Think The Gameplan Has To Be Somewhat Similar To The One Vs. Tennessee On Defense.

Basically, zero in on Fournette and prevent him from running all over us, and then have a QB spy in a lot of plays and FORCE Bortles to win the game with just his arm (don’t let Bortles run a ton, which he is more than capable of doing).

Now obviously, easier said than done, and yes, Jacksonville’s defense is ELITE (so don’t expect a 35-14 scoreline again), but hopefully the offense can put up around 23-27 points this Sunday, and then this "bend but don’t break defense" can keep Bortles and co. to under 17 points.

I mean, PIT did manage to put up 42 points on the Jaguars and as the game went on, they (the Jags) couldn’t really pressure Big Ben. Plus, I imagine our defense will do MUCH BETTER than the Steelers’ defense did today.

Again, won’t be easy, but at home, as long as we keep Fournette from running over us and the offense can put up somewhere in the mid-20s, I like our chances.

The Jags defense does remind me of the 2015 Broncos a lot, but luckily this time around, we’re playing at home and not on the road!

Expecting a close game with a scoreline around 27-17 Pats, with the Pats icing the game on a late FG or something.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: green_bballers13 on January 14, 2018, 09:10:14 PM
I Think The Gameplan Has To Be Somewhat Similar To The One Vs. Tennessee On Defense.

Basically, zero in on Fournette and prevent him from running all over us, and then have a QB spy in a lot of plays and FORCE Bortles to win the game with just his arm (don’t let Bortles run a ton, which he is more than capable of doing).

Now obviously, easier said than done, and yes, Jacksonville’s defense is ELITE (so don’t expect a 35-14 scoreline again), but hopefully the offense can put up around 23-27 points this Sunday, and then this "bend but don’t break defense" can keep Bortles and co. to under 17 points.

I mean, PIT did manage to put up 42 points on the Jaguars and as the game went on, they (the Jags) couldn’t really pressure Big Ben. Plus, I imagine our defense will do MUCH BETTER than the Steelers’ defense did today.

Again, won’t be easy, but at home, as long as we keep Fournette from running over us and the offense can put up somewhere in the mid-20s, I like our chances.

The Jags defense does remind me of the 2015 Broncos a lot, but luckily this time around, we’re playing at home and not on the road!

Expecting a close game with a scoreline around 27-17 Pats, with the Pats icing the game on a late FG or something.

They just gave up 42 pts to a QB not named Tom Brady. I'm concerned, but not really worried about Jax. I still think Pitt is a better team and would pose a bigger threat than Jax in NE.

It is easy to sleep on Bortles as he runs hot/cold. Fournette is already one of the best backs in the league. I imagine that BB is completely focused on neutralizing him.

Classic New Orleans defense. It's too bad, bc Brees is a hell of a QB. A Brees-Brady SB would be a classic.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: nickagneta on January 14, 2018, 09:48:26 PM
Have no concerns about Jacksonville. I see the game being as close as the Titans game.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on January 14, 2018, 10:26:13 PM
Only real concern about Jax is their stout run game.  I remember seeing Fournette on ESPN every weekend without fail while at LSU -- one scary dude and leader of the best run game in the NFL this season.  Unfortunately, the Pats rank ~20th in the league in defensive rushing yards.  There's reason to be hopeful too, though: Despite the yards given, they allowed relatively few TDs; and the Pats defense tends to step up in the playoffs.  I think it will end up being a competitive game with experience trumping grit and youth.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: green_bballers13 on January 14, 2018, 10:35:23 PM
Have no concerns about Jacksonville. I see the game being as close as the Titans game.

The Pats game was more of a 28 pt game than the 21 pt difference that the scoreboard showed. I would love an epic beatdown in NE once again this weekend. I think it will be far closer. Jax impressed me today.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: SparzWizard on January 14, 2018, 11:52:28 PM
How are people feeling about Jaguars vs Patriots in Foxboro next week? Their defense gives me a ton of pause.

Would you have preferred the Steelers?

If the Patriots want to win Superbowl 52, the Jaguars are the good draw. It will measure their intensity. That's a very elite-level defense the Patriots will face in the postseason, and preparing them for the big game should they get there.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on January 15, 2018, 12:14:42 AM
Only real concern about Jax is their stout run game.  I remember seeing Fournette on ESPN every weekend without fail while at LSU -- one scary dude and leader of the best run game in the NFL this season.  Unfortunately, the Pats rank ~20th in the league in defensive rushing yards.  There's reason to be hopeful too, though: Despite the yards given, they allowed relatively few TDs; and the Pats defense tends to step up in the playoffs.  I think it will end up being a competitive game with experience trumping grit and youth.

Honestly, I tend to agree with this.  TP, tar. 
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Neurotic Guy on January 17, 2018, 04:29:55 PM
Just saw announcement that Brady cancelled press conference due to an injury.   Don't know if this means anything too serious, but certainly is curious and leaves me a little worried.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/tom-brady-cancels-press-conference-due-to-injury/ar-AAuPbmp?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp&ffid=gz
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: chicagoceltic on January 17, 2018, 04:54:34 PM
Just saw announcement that Brady cancelled press conference due to an injury.   Don't know if this means anything too serious, but certainly is curious and leaves me a little worried.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/tom-brady-cancels-press-conference-due-to-injury/ar-AAuPbmp?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp&ffid=gz
Did he cancel because of an injury or an “injury”?
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Neurotic Guy on January 17, 2018, 05:03:27 PM
Just saw announcement that Brady cancelled press conference due to an injury.   Don't know if this means anything too serious, but certainly is curious and leaves me a little worried.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/tom-brady-cancels-press-conference-due-to-injury/ar-AAuPbmp?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp&ffid=gz
Did he cancel because of an injury or an “injury”?

Not much info out there that I see since the cancelation.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on January 17, 2018, 05:11:52 PM
Just saw announcement that Brady cancelled press conference due to an injury.   Don't know if this means anything too serious, but certainly is curious and leaves me a little worried.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/tom-brady-cancels-press-conference-due-to-injury/ar-AAuPbmp?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp&ffid=gz
Did he cancel because of an injury or an “injury”?

Not much info out there that I see since the cancelation.
What they actually said is that he can't make the presser because he's seeing the medical staff. But trust MSN to give you the accurate, non-sensationalist text bite. :D

http://www.weei.com/blogs/ryan-hannable/tom-brady-meeting-medical-staff-wont-speak-media-wednesday
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on January 17, 2018, 05:47:29 PM
Brady limited with throwing hand injury today. I think this has been an issue since at least midseason, but the team skirted the injury report and listed him with other issues when didn't practice.
 
http://www.weei.com/blogs/ryan-hannable/tom-brady-limited-patriots-practice-right-hand-injury
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on January 18, 2018, 03:31:29 PM
Based on the close-ups here, I'd guess that he's wearing a splint on his thumb.

http://www.weei.com/blogs/alex-reimer/tom-bradys-hand-injury-now-biggest-mystery-new-england
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: nickagneta on January 18, 2018, 04:04:15 PM
That glove looked like it was way to big for his hand. If he hand something wrong with a finger they would just tape the finger to another finger. So must be a thumb problem and that would make sense with wearing a glove as the rubber on the glove might make up for a weaker grip because of a thumb injury.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on January 18, 2018, 04:07:15 PM
That glove looked like it was way to big for his hand. If he hand something wrong with a finger they would just tape the finger to another finger. So must be a thumb problem and that would make sense with wearing a glove as the rubber on the glove might make up for a weaker grip because of a thumb injury.
I think he's just wearing the glove to hide the splint.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: PhoSita on January 18, 2018, 04:13:59 PM
I'm really hoping this is all gamesmanship and Brady ends up looking just fine.

On the plus side, they don't need high octane offense against this Jags team, they just need to steadily generate points over the course of the game and not turn it over.  The Jags offense won't score more than 20 points or so without help from their defense.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on January 18, 2018, 04:18:45 PM
Does not sound good.  But Brady also isn't human, so it may not even matter.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: hpantazo on January 18, 2018, 04:48:01 PM
They made a big mistake trading Garoppolo. They could have plugged him in here, beat the Jags, and rest Brady until the Superbowl.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on January 18, 2018, 05:19:17 PM
They made a big mistake trading Garoppolo. They could have plugged him in here, beat the Jags, and rest Brady until the Superbowl.

I don't think they would rest Brady unless he literally couldn't grip the ball.

As for Garoppolo, people who dislike that deal will still criticize it even if the Pats win the Super Bowl this year.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Neurotic Guy on January 18, 2018, 05:22:28 PM
They made a big mistake trading Garoppolo. They could have plugged him in here, beat the Jags, and rest Brady until the Superbowl.

How certain is everyone that Jimmy is a better bet than Hoyer?  Not talking 5 years from now or even 1 year from now. Veteran Hoyer might be a solid fill-in for one game.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Donoghus on January 18, 2018, 05:24:27 PM
They made a big mistake trading Garoppolo. They could have plugged him in here, beat the Jags, and rest Brady until the Superbowl.

How certain is everyone that Jimmy is a better bet than Hoyer?  Not talking 5 years from now or even 1 year from now. Veteran Hoyer might be a solid fill-in for one game.

They don't.  It's purely speculative. 
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: hpantazo on January 18, 2018, 05:42:45 PM
They made a big mistake trading Garoppolo. They could have plugged him in here, beat the Jags, and rest Brady until the Superbowl.

How certain is everyone that Jimmy is a better bet than Hoyer?  Not talking 5 years from now or even 1 year from now. Veteran Hoyer might be a solid fill-in for one game.

They don't.  It's purely speculative.

I hope so, but Jimmy is not a rookie, he was training under Brady and Bill for several years now.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on January 19, 2018, 02:09:03 PM
So Brady did have a presser today. It lasted 4 minutes, he appeared with gloves on(!), and refused to talk about pretty much anything. The takeaways:

1. Wouldn't talk about the injury,
2. Wouldn't confirm he practiced,
3. Wouldn't say whether he threw the ball,
4. Wouldn't confirm he'll play Sunday.

Zo and the rest of the midday show at the Hub seem to think he needed to get stitches on his thumb. If that's true, it doesn't look good at all.

Y'all think Hoyer can hit Cooks on a deep route?
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on January 19, 2018, 02:16:02 PM
I can't fathom him not playing on Sunday.  If guys can play with dozens of holes in their brain, Brady can play with a few stitches.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on January 19, 2018, 02:18:43 PM
I can't fathom him not playing on Sunday.  If guys can play with dozens of holes in their brain, Brady can play with a few stitches.
I've had stitches in my thumb. Had to wear a splint for a lot more than 4 days for the wound not to reopen. And I didn't even have all that many.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on January 19, 2018, 02:23:40 PM
I can't fathom him not playing on Sunday.  If guys can play with dozens of holes in their brain, Brady can play with a few stitches.
I've had stitches in my thumb. Had to wear a splint for a lot more than 4 days for the wound not to reopen. And I didn't even have all that many.

Was he in a splint today? That'd spell the end of our season.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on January 19, 2018, 02:25:44 PM
I can't fathom him not playing on Sunday.  If guys can play with dozens of holes in their brain, Brady can play with a few stitches.
I've had stitches in my thumb. Had to wear a splint for a lot more than 4 days for the wound not to reopen. And I didn't even have all that many.

Was he in a splint today? That'd spell the end of our season.
He didn't even take his gloves off for the presser, from what I understand. I'll bet you he's still in a splint under them.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Boris Badenov on January 19, 2018, 04:25:58 PM
https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/954462893873029120

http://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/what-were-hearing-new-england-patriots-tom-brady-has-painful-thumb-injury

Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on January 19, 2018, 04:36:59 PM
In the meanwhile, the team listed Brady (as well as everyone else on the injury report) as questionable, which pretty much means nothing. Unlike yesterday, he also apparently practiced for real today (limited), but we already knew that.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: green_bballers13 on January 19, 2018, 06:49:55 PM
I can't fathom him not playing on Sunday.  If guys can play with dozens of holes in their brain, Brady can play with a few stitches.
I've had stitches in my thumb. Had to wear a splint for a lot more than 4 days for the wound not to reopen. And I didn't even have all that many.

Was he in a splint today? That'd spell the end of our season.

If Tom Brady is in a splint today, the Patriots' season is over? Yikes, I wasn't aware. Maybe I should sell my tickets for Sunday.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on January 19, 2018, 06:53:57 PM
I can't fathom him not playing on Sunday.  If guys can play with dozens of holes in their brain, Brady can play with a few stitches.
I've had stitches in my thumb. Had to wear a splint for a lot more than 4 days for the wound not to reopen. And I didn't even have all that many.

Was he in a splint today? That'd spell the end of our season.

If Tom Brady is in a splint today, the Patriots' season is over? Yikes, I wasn't aware. Maybe I should sell my tickets for Sunday.

When multiple thoughts are shared, they form a context. Congrats on having tickets to the game.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Ilikesports17 on January 19, 2018, 06:54:21 PM
I can't fathom him not playing on Sunday.  If guys can play with dozens of holes in their brain, Brady can play with a few stitches.
I've had stitches in my thumb. Had to wear a splint for a lot more than 4 days for the wound not to reopen. And I didn't even have all that many.

Was he in a splint today? That'd spell the end of our season.

If Tom Brady is in a splint today, the Patriots' season is over? Yikes, I wasn't aware. Maybe I should sell my tickets for Sunday.
I hope this is sarcasm.

Of course at Celticsblog the end is always nigh
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: green_bballers13 on January 19, 2018, 07:30:52 PM
I can't fathom him not playing on Sunday.  If guys can play with dozens of holes in their brain, Brady can play with a few stitches.
I've had stitches in my thumb. Had to wear a splint for a lot more than 4 days for the wound not to reopen. And I didn't even have all that many.

Was he in a splint today? That'd spell the end of our season.

If Tom Brady is in a splint today, the Patriots' season is over? Yikes, I wasn't aware. Maybe I should sell my tickets for Sunday.
I hope this is sarcasm.

Of course at Celticsblog the end is always nigh

It is funny how people bite on the sensationalized media. "Brady held out of practice" turns into "Breaking news: Brady might not play on Sunday". Some will always take the bait, regardless of Brady's ability to play through pain and regardless of the Patriots use of the injury report to troll the rest of the league.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Roy H. on January 21, 2018, 03:57:33 PM
I love the way this Jaguars team plays. I’ll always be a sucker for old-school football.  A strong defense and running game? Sign me up.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on January 21, 2018, 04:31:46 PM
I love the way this Jaguars team plays. I’ll always be a sucker for old-school football.  A strong defense and running game? Sign me up.
Except they're ahead because mostly because Bortles is playing out of his mind.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on January 21, 2018, 04:44:15 PM
This will be a good ethical test of the concussion protocol.  Gronk definitely sustained one, but the stakes are very high... does he "clear" the protocol?
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on January 21, 2018, 04:57:09 PM
This will be a good ethical test of the concussion protocol.  Gronk definitely sustained one, but the stakes are very high... does he "clear" the protocol?
Come on. The concussion protocol is a joke. They let Tom Savage go back in after he had uncontrollable twitching on live TV.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: TheisTheisBaby on January 21, 2018, 05:00:52 PM
Seeing this game proves to me even more that officials HAVE TO be told to do whatever it takes to help the big name teams win games they don't deserve to win.  Take the refs out of this one and the Patriots don't stand a chance. 
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: gouki88 on January 21, 2018, 05:02:01 PM
Seeing this game proves to me even more that officials HAVE TO be told to do whatever it takes to help the big name teams win games they don't deserve to win.  Take the refs out of this one and the Patriots don't stand a chance.
Rofl,  ::)
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on January 21, 2018, 05:02:24 PM
This will be a good ethical test of the concussion protocol.  Gronk definitely sustained one, but the stakes are very high... does he "clear" the protocol?
Come on. The concussion protocol is a joke. They let Tom Savage go back in after he had uncontrollable twitching on live TV.

It is terrible, just thought it'd be a good example of that. 
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: TheisTheisBaby on January 21, 2018, 05:03:52 PM
This will be a good ethical test of the concussion protocol.  Gronk definitely sustained one, but the stakes are very high... does he "clear" the protocol?
Come on. The concussion protocol is a joke. They let Tom Savage go back in after he had uncontrollable twitching on live TV.

I hope he himself realizes how messed up he is and doesn't go back in.  Highly unlikely because it's Gronk I know but still.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on January 21, 2018, 05:09:11 PM
Well, there's always next season.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: TheisTheisBaby on January 21, 2018, 05:12:08 PM
Well, there's always next season.

LOL you're trying the reverse mush.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on January 21, 2018, 05:18:17 PM
Wow.  They ruled Gronk out.  It was the right call, just surprising.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: TheisTheisBaby on January 21, 2018, 05:20:10 PM
THAT'S A FUMBLE!!
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Roy H. on January 21, 2018, 05:21:03 PM
Man, that’s a rough fumble. I wouldn’t call it a turnover, but there’s no clear, decisive evidence to overturn it.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on January 21, 2018, 05:22:07 PM
Man.  That could be game.  Psychologists should be on call for all Pats fans today.  This is worse than Ben Shapiro at Berkeley.  Seeing Tom Brady not succeed would create massive confusion.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: TheisTheisBaby on January 21, 2018, 05:23:18 PM
Holy Missed PI Batman.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on January 21, 2018, 05:32:33 PM
There we go boys!  A 3-and-out here would be enormous.  And another Pats score could force Jax to throw the ball.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Roy H. on January 21, 2018, 05:38:02 PM
Jags should just take a knee on 1st down. It would be just as productive.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: A Future of Stevens on January 21, 2018, 05:40:08 PM
Brady has been on target all day. They just need their receivers to keep the last drive going at this point.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on January 21, 2018, 05:42:30 PM
Jags should just take a knee on 1st down. It would be just as productive.

Lol.  Bortles looks shaky.  Now it's time for Tommy to right the ship here.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Roy H. on January 21, 2018, 05:47:49 PM
We all know how this one ends.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on January 21, 2018, 05:49:10 PM
We all know how this one ends.

If you jinx this, Roy...
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: liam on January 21, 2018, 05:53:50 PM
NICE!
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Roy H. on January 21, 2018, 05:54:09 PM
Gronk was clearly holding the Pats back.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: A Future of Stevens on January 21, 2018, 05:54:40 PM
Gronk was clearly holding the Pats back.

Hahaha that made me laugh Roy. All kidding aside, Brady is utterly amazing.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: liam on January 21, 2018, 05:54:52 PM
DEFENSE!
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on January 21, 2018, 05:59:10 PM
Good coverage by Flowers.  That could've been dangerous.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: liam on January 21, 2018, 06:01:13 PM
Well this game has been exciting!
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Roy H. on January 21, 2018, 06:03:33 PM
Gilmore justified his paycheck.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: liam on January 21, 2018, 06:03:46 PM
Gilmore!
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on January 21, 2018, 06:04:48 PM
Gilmore finally earned that paycheck.  Harrison made some big plays too.  He was a good vet signing for the playoffs.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: CelticsElite on January 21, 2018, 06:06:17 PM
Wait a second... Bellichick can smile?

The goat Brady does it again
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: liam on January 21, 2018, 06:06:41 PM
DION!
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Roy H. on January 21, 2018, 06:08:18 PM
Belichick’s speech before the 4th quarter: the Jags are hiding all the Bud Light in the end zone. Dilly dilly!
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: TheisTheisBaby on January 21, 2018, 06:08:48 PM
Gilmore with the play of the game.  But the Jaguars should gladly take the fine and call out the one-sided officiating that cost them this game. 
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: GratefulCs on January 21, 2018, 06:09:11 PM
wow

the rest of america must HATE the pats
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: hpantazo on January 21, 2018, 06:11:05 PM
Gilmore with the play of the game.  But the Jaguars should gladly take the fine and call out the one-sided officiating that cost them this game.


Pats earned this win, and then some.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: GratefulCs on January 21, 2018, 06:12:06 PM
Gilmore with the play of the game.  But the Jaguars should gladly take the fine and call out the one-sided officiating that cost them this game.


Pats earned this win, and then some.
salty pats haters are great
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: hpantazo on January 21, 2018, 06:13:40 PM
Gilmore with the play of the game.  But the Jaguars should gladly take the fine and call out the one-sided officiating that cost them this game.


Pats earned this win, and then some.
salty pats haters are great

Yeah, the saltier the better!
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: gouki88 on January 21, 2018, 06:15:16 PM
Gilmore with the play of the game.  But the Jaguars should gladly take the fine and call out the one-sided officiating that cost them this game.
You’re too funny
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Csfan1984 on January 21, 2018, 06:15:38 PM
Glad this wasn't a blow out. Go Pats get #6
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kraidstar on January 21, 2018, 06:16:26 PM
Best playoff performance IMO by Brady for his entire career.

The Jags D was solid, and the Pats receivers were getting little separation, and he did everything he needed to do to win. Just amazing.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Vox_Populi on January 21, 2018, 06:16:32 PM
I missed the game mostly, so ignoring the reffing, which is always somehow contentious when the Pats play, how did they do it this time? #1 pass defense, Gronk and Edelman mostly out, and they comeback anyway?
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: colincb on January 21, 2018, 06:16:39 PM
For the 15th time in the last 16 years one of the Big Four New England sports teams will play for a title.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Roy H. on January 21, 2018, 06:18:01 PM
Glad this wasn't a blow out. Go Pats get #6

(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/26993732_10215410369122625_2961462661445434376_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=a15db808fed168975f814cfb45371478&oe=5ADB5D5C)
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: CelticsElite on January 21, 2018, 06:18:03 PM
Belichick’s speech before the 4th quarter: the Jags are hiding all the Bud Light in the end zone. Dilly dilly!
no wonder gronk was out for the 4th. Now we know where he was at  ;D
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: CelticsElite on January 21, 2018, 06:19:28 PM
I missed the game mostly, so ignoring the reffing, which is always somehow contentious when the Pats play, how did they do it this time? #1 pass defense, Gronk and Edelman mostly out, and they comeback anyway?
amendola. Nice passes by Brady. Clutch defensive plays by harrison and CBs.  Strong pats defense in 2nd half.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Roy H. on January 21, 2018, 06:19:36 PM
I missed the game mostly, so ignoring the reffing, which is always somehow contentious when the Pats play, how did they do it this time? #1 pass defense, Gronk and Edelman mostly out, and they comeback anyway?

Pats played their game, Jags went conservative in the second half, particularly on first down.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: rondohondo on January 21, 2018, 06:30:00 PM
You'll be so sick of winning  ;) you'll say Don we can't take it.

Not surprising the leaders of the Pats support trump ;)

Get ready for MSM make this a huge issue running up to the Superbowl.

Ha!
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: manl_lui on January 21, 2018, 06:30:25 PM
let's go!!!!!! Super Bowl bound!
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kraidstar on January 21, 2018, 06:34:25 PM
I missed the game mostly, so ignoring the reffing, which is always somehow contentious when the Pats play, how did they do it this time? #1 pass defense, Gronk and Edelman mostly out, and they comeback anyway?

Pats played their game, Jags went conservative in the second half, particularly on first down.

Yep. They took their foot off the gas pedal. And the defense found its confidence again. And the Pats offense IMO was a little better than it looked in the first half. Once the receivers started holding on to the ball they controlled the ball a lot better.

I was telling my housemate about how this game reminded me a lot of the 2014 game against the Ravens. Defense comes out squirrely, offense misses a few plays, but once they got their feet underneath them they took control.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: GratefulCs on January 21, 2018, 06:35:47 PM
You'll be so sick of winning  ;) you'll say Don we can't take it.

Not surprising the leaders of the Pats support trump ;)

Get ready for MSM make this a huge issue running up to the Superbowl.

Ha!
*barf*
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: manl_lui on January 21, 2018, 06:37:21 PM
I missed the game mostly, so ignoring the reffing, which is always somehow contentious when the Pats play, how did they do it this time? #1 pass defense, Gronk and Edelman mostly out, and they comeback anyway?

Pats played their game, Jags went conservative in the second half, particularly on first down.

Yep. They took their foot off the gas pedal. And the defense found its confidence again. And the Pats offense IMO was a little better than it looked in the first half. Once the receivers started holding on to the ball they controlled the ball a lot better.

I was telling my housemate about how this game reminded me a lot of the 2014 game against the Ravens. Defense comes out squirrely, offense misses a few plays, but once they got their feet underneath them they took control.

i actually felt the same way (or rather reminded me of the Seahawks game, we were down by 10 going into the 4th)

I honestly felt the refs were ok this game, at least in my opinion, the flags thrown were all obvious

(like the neck hold that gave us an auto 1st down, Gronk's obvious helmet to helmet), i mean the Jags also got the ball back on Lewis' fumble. I may have missed a couple but i think the refs were very good today, and it's not because we won that i think that lol
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Redz on January 21, 2018, 06:47:56 PM
Pats are good at winning
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on January 21, 2018, 06:50:44 PM
YEAAAAAAAAAAAAA BABYYYYYY!!! PATS WON!

That was TOUGH. Credit to JAX, they played a helluva game and will definitely be threats in the future (especially if they can replace Bortles with an Eli, or Bridgewater, or Cousins). But Bortles played a great game overall as well, so kudos to him.

Tom Brady is THE GOAT. Down 20-10, less than 14 minutes to go, against the #1 pass defense in the league, and he leads 2 TD drives? WOW. Almost like the SB three years ago vs. Seattle in the 4th quarter. Could have been 3 TD drives if Lewis didn't fumble there too.

Also, Stephon Gilmore definitely EARNED his entire contract with that CLUTCH pass break up late in the game.  ;D

The Pats defense started off iffy, but boy did they stop Fournette in the last 20 minutes of the game. Forced Bortle to win them the game and he couldn't.

And JAMES HARRISON! OH MY. Steelers fans must be FUMING now!!  :laugh:

Amendola underrated but CLUTCH again. Hope we keep him this off-season!

Sorry for sounding like a girl with my exclamation points and all-caps, but MAN I'M HAPPY!  ;D 
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Csfan1984 on January 21, 2018, 07:05:47 PM
Some might say watching the Pats win is like watching Mayweather. It starts slow and eventually the winner is who we expected.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: nickagneta on January 21, 2018, 07:19:34 PM
Political talk has no place in this thread.
Knock it off.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: nickagneta on January 21, 2018, 07:21:27 PM
For all the talk of the "vaunted Jacksonville defense", it was the Pats defense that dominated that 2nd half and won the game. They deserve a ton of credit for their play since week 5.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: gouki88 on January 21, 2018, 07:25:53 PM
For all the talk of the "vaunted Jacksonville defense", it was the Pats defense that dominated that 2nd half and won the game. They deserve a ton of credit for their play since week 5.
Harrison and Flowers were both really strong, as was that swat by Gilmore.

In the fourth Brady crushed their defence too, it was fantastic
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: eja117 on January 21, 2018, 07:36:57 PM
Political talk has no place in this thread.
Knock it off.

Roy started it when he said the Jags went conservative
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: jambr380 on January 21, 2018, 07:37:01 PM
You can't ever count the Belichick/Brady Pats out!! Great job by all involved in the 2nd half!

You really have to love "Playoffs Amendola." He always comes through when it matters the most (man, that one catch in the middle of the field reminded me of the one Welker dropped in SB XLVI). Big plays by the defense down the stretch, too.

When a team is missing its 2nd, 3rd, and 4th best players (Edelman, Gronk, Hightower), you don't expect to win...unless you are the Patriots!

One more big win guys - Let's go!!  ;D

Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: chicagoceltic on January 21, 2018, 07:44:10 PM
Political talk has no place in this thread.
Knock it off.

Roy started it when he said the Jags went conservative
TP for humor.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: nickagneta on January 21, 2018, 07:54:45 PM
Political talk has no place in this thread.
Knock it off.

Roy started it when he said the Jags went conservative
Well played. Many TPs
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Cman on January 21, 2018, 08:00:34 PM
There were some amazingly clutch plays by the Pats in the 4th quarter. Brady, Amendola, Lewis, Gilmore.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Neurotic Guy on January 21, 2018, 08:02:09 PM
Thought on preferred opponent, Eagles vs. Vikings?

Got to hand it to Philadelphia losing Wentz, staying strong, and now looking like a legit superbowl team so far today.  I know their defense is strong, but I really haven't watched much of the Eagles (or Vikings) this year so not sure what to think.   Fowles looking very solid today.  Keenum also has been excellent from what I've seen of him this year.

Who's your preference?
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: nickagneta on January 21, 2018, 08:09:11 PM
Pats job on Fournette was masterful.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Ilikesports17 on January 21, 2018, 08:17:53 PM
A few things here.

First, that is one of Brady's greatest performances ever. Down 10 in the 4th quarter against the league's #1 pass defense after losing your #1 target with absolutely 0 run game.

Second, great to see big time plays from Gilmore and Harrison down the stretch.

Finally, I, not sure how much I love the monday morning QBing saying Jacksonville played not to lose, or got to conservative. Last year Atlanta kept their foot on the gas offensively and people raked them over the coals for it. I dont think Jacksonville lost because they were too aggressive or conservative or whatever. They lost because Brady and Belichick are the GOAT coach/QB combo and they figured out how to neutralize Fournette and Brady figured out how to pick that defense apart. It happens. They just lost.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: nickagneta on January 21, 2018, 08:22:01 PM
Thought on preferred opponent, Eagles vs. Vikings?

Got to hand it to Philadelphia losing Wentz, staying strong, and now looking like a legit superbowl team so far today.  I know their defense is strong, but I really haven't watched much of the Eagles (or Vikings) this year so not sure what to think.   Fowles looking very solid today.  Keenum also has been excellent from what I've seen of him this year.

Who's your preference?
Eagles. Can't see Foles having a second great game in a row. Also, don't want to play Minny in Minny. Superbowls should be on a neutral field.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Billz401 on January 21, 2018, 08:46:21 PM
Thought on preferred opponent, Eagles vs. Vikings?

Got to hand it to Philadelphia losing Wentz, staying strong, and now looking like a legit superbowl team so far today.  I know their defense is strong, but I really haven't watched much of the Eagles (or Vikings) this year so not sure what to think.   Fowles looking very solid today.  Keenum also has been excellent from what I've seen of him this year.

Who's your preference?
Eagles. Can't see Foles having a second great game in a row. Also, don't want to play Minny in Minny. Superbowls should be on a neutral field.
Ditto
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Ilikesports17 on January 21, 2018, 08:58:28 PM
Thought on preferred opponent, Eagles vs. Vikings?

Got to hand it to Philadelphia losing Wentz, staying strong, and now looking like a legit superbowl team so far today.  I know their defense is strong, but I really haven't watched much of the Eagles (or Vikings) this year so not sure what to think.   Fowles looking very solid today.  Keenum also has been excellent from what I've seen of him this year.

Who's your preference?
Eagles. Can't see Foles having a second great game in a row. Also, don't want to play Minny in Minny. Superbowls should be on a neutral field.
Ditto
Not too sure I agree on Foles.

In 2013 he put up a 27/2 td/int ratio. He's not a shmuck.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: SparzWizard on January 21, 2018, 09:00:55 PM
Looks like a superbowl rematch.

Boston-Philadelphia rivalry never gets old  8)
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: nickagneta on January 21, 2018, 09:01:32 PM
Pretty much looks like Philly vs NE. Can see the Pats opening up as 4.5 point favorites
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Fan from VT on January 21, 2018, 09:17:05 PM
Gilmore with the play of the game.  But the Jaguars should gladly take the fine and call out the one-sided officiating that cost them this game.

I like following Football Zebras on twitter, and their blog for ref analysis. Here is what they said at the end of the Pats game ( I bolded the key part).


Fᴏᴏᴛʙᴀʟʟ Zᴇʙʀᴀs

Verified account
 
Quote
@footballzebras
 3h3 hours ago
More
Three excellent teams took the field today. An exciting game and a great job by the crew. I'm pressed to find a flaw in today's game, and I usually don't say that

22 replies 14 retweets 57 likes
Reply 22   Retweet 14   Like 57   Direct message

So, I'll take this as confirmation to the eye test that this game was called equally.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Fan from VT on January 21, 2018, 09:23:53 PM
Also, I try not to nit-pick wins, but cooks caught 6 of 8 targets for 100 yards, long of 31, avg 16.7...and it seemed like he had a disappointing performance? Plus he drew the key PI penalty? Weird. I was shocked to see his stats when I went to look just now. I guess his 2 drops just really stuck out; 1 I though should have been DPI and another that he 100% should have caught.


I came here to post that he might have had the worst 100 yard receiving game ever, but then I checked the stats and those were his only 2 drops. Weird.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Ilikesports17 on January 21, 2018, 09:33:17 PM
Also, I try not to nit-pick wins, but cooks caught 6 of 8 targets for 100 yards, long of 31, avg 16.7...and it seemed like he had a disappointing performance? Plus he drew the key PI penalty? Weird. I was shocked to see his stats when I went to look just now. I guess his 2 drops just really stuck out; 1 I though should have been DPI and another that he 100% should have caught.


I came here to post that he might have had the worst 100 yard receiving game ever, but then I checked the stats and those were his only 2 drops. Weird.
Really?

I came away from this game thinking Cooks played terrific. His best game since early in the year. I was very pleasantly surprised with his ability to consistently best Bouye and draw safety help.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on January 21, 2018, 09:33:54 PM
Non-New England/Boston fans are always quick to hit me with the guilt of being a spoiled fan.  Just want to enjoy it for a couple of hours!
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: nickagneta on January 21, 2018, 09:35:46 PM
Also, I try not to nit-pick wins, but cooks caught 6 of 8 targets for 100 yards, long of 31, avg 16.7...and it seemed like he had a disappointing performance? Plus he drew the key PI penalty? Weird. I was shocked to see his stats when I went to look just now. I guess his 2 drops just really stuck out; 1 I though should have been DPI and another that he 100% should have caught.


I came here to post that he might have had the worst 100 yard receiving game ever, but then I checked the stats and those were his only 2 drops. Weird.
Really?

I came away from this game thinking Cooks played terrific. His best game since early in the year. I was very pleasantly surprised with his ability to consistently best Bouye and draw safety help.
Agree. I thought he was agressive downfield in trying to get to the ball and caused those two PI penalties. He worked hard and ran great routes. Yes, he had that bad drop but other than that, I thought he was a stud today.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Fan from VT on January 21, 2018, 09:38:22 PM
Also, I try not to nit-pick wins, but cooks caught 6 of 8 targets for 100 yards, long of 31, avg 16.7...and it seemed like he had a disappointing performance? Plus he drew the key PI penalty? Weird. I was shocked to see his stats when I went to look just now. I guess his 2 drops just really stuck out; 1 I though should have been DPI and another that he 100% should have caught.


I came here to post that he might have had the worst 100 yard receiving game ever, but then I checked the stats and those were his only 2 drops. Weird.
Really?

I came away from this game thinking Cooks played terrific. His best game since early in the year. I was very pleasantly surprised with his ability to consistently best Bouye and draw safety help.

Yeah, I kind of changed my mind halfway through my post when I clicked over to the boxscore to add some stats. Basically, I remember seeing them bring up that Cooks had eclipsed 100 yard, and thinking "gosh, what a bad 100 yard game, he had like 5 drops!", started typing then looked at the stats...I guess he had a good game that could have been GREAT. On his 2 drops, 1 was a key drop that he absolutely should have caught, and the other should have been DPI, and other than that he caught everything. So consider my (mildly beer-addled) mind changed. Which I'm glad for, since I've been a Cooks fan all year!
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: eja117 on January 21, 2018, 09:45:29 PM
Non-New England/Boston fans are always quick to hit me with the guilt of being a spoiled fan.  Just want to enjoy it for a couple of hours!
Spoiled? An entitlement isn't being spoiled. Is Prince William spoiled? He can't help he was born the way he was.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on January 21, 2018, 09:49:32 PM
Non-New England/Boston fans are always quick to hit me with the guilt of being a spoiled fan.  Just want to enjoy it for a couple of hours!
Spoiled? An entitlement isn't being spoiled. Is Prince William spoiled? He can't help he was born the way he was.

Do you accept insurance?  I'd like to book you for weekly sessions.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: nickagneta on January 21, 2018, 09:51:00 PM
Non-New England/Boston fans are always quick to hit me with the guilt of being a spoiled fan.  Just want to enjoy it for a couple of hours!
Spoiled? An entitlement isn't being spoiled. Is Prince William spoiled? He can't help he was born the way he was.
Those people should have tried to be a Pats fan from 1970-1995. The Pats were the joke of the league. They were constantly rumored to be leaving town. Hell, their management couldn't make money off a Michael Jackson tour. Being a Pats fan then was like being a Clippers fan before Blake Griffin.

Nothing entitled about being a Pats fan. Our fandom earned being what we are today.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: eja117 on January 21, 2018, 09:51:36 PM
Non-New England/Boston fans are always quick to hit me with the guilt of being a spoiled fan.  Just want to enjoy it for a couple of hours!
Spoiled? An entitlement isn't being spoiled. Is Prince William spoiled? He can't help he was born the way he was.

Do you accept insurance?  I'd like to book you for weekly sessions.
No. I only accept cash.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: eja117 on January 21, 2018, 09:52:15 PM
Non-New England/Boston fans are always quick to hit me with the guilt of being a spoiled fan.  Just want to enjoy it for a couple of hours!
Spoiled? An entitlement isn't being spoiled. Is Prince William spoiled? He can't help he was born the way he was.
Those people should have tried to be a Pats fan from 1970-1995. The Pats were the joke of the league. They were constantly rumored to be leaving town. Hell, their management couldn't make money off a Michael Jackson tour. Being a Pats fan then was like being a Clippers fan before Blake Griffin.

Nothing entitled about being a Pats fan. Our fandom earned being what we are today.
You're entitled to what you earn.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: eja117 on January 21, 2018, 09:54:32 PM
Non-New England/Boston fans are always quick to hit me with the guilt of being a spoiled fan.  Just want to enjoy it for a couple of hours!
Spoiled? An entitlement isn't being spoiled. Is Prince William spoiled? He can't help he was born the way he was.
Those people should have tried to be a Pats fan from 1970-1995. The Pats were the joke of the league. They were constantly rumored to be leaving town. Hell, their management couldn't make money off a Michael Jackson tour. Being a Pats fan then was like being a Clippers fan before Blake Griffin.

Nothing entitled about being a Pats fan. Our fandom earned being what we are today.
I'm not sure you can say the Pats were the joke of the league from 70 to 95. The Pats went to two Super Bowls in that era (and a lot less of them had been played at that point). There are 4 teams that have never even been to one.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: OnPoint on January 21, 2018, 10:07:55 PM
Non-New England/Boston fans are always quick to hit me with the guilt of being a spoiled fan.  Just want to enjoy it for a couple of hours!
Spoiled? An entitlement isn't being spoiled. Is Prince William spoiled? He can't help he was born the way he was.
Those people should have tried to be a Pats fan from 1970-1995. The Pats were the joke of the league. They were constantly rumored to be leaving town. Hell, their management couldn't make money off a Michael Jackson tour. Being a Pats fan then was like being a Clippers fan before Blake Griffin.

Nothing entitled about being a Pats fan. Our fandom earned being what we are today.

The Pats went to Super Bowl 20, some of these franchises (Browns, Lions, Clippers before Blake, etc) cannot even make it to the playoffs.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: nickagneta on January 21, 2018, 10:21:12 PM
Non-New England/Boston fans are always quick to hit me with the guilt of being a spoiled fan.  Just want to enjoy it for a couple of hours!
Spoiled? An entitlement isn't being spoiled. Is Prince William spoiled? He can't help he was born the way he was.
Those people should have tried to be a Pats fan from 1970-1995. The Pats were the joke of the league. They were constantly rumored to be leaving town. Hell, their management couldn't make money off a Michael Jackson tour. Being a Pats fan then was like being a Clippers fan before Blake Griffin.

Nothing entitled about being a Pats fan. Our fandom earned being what we are today.
I'm not sure you can say the Pats were the joke of the league from 70 to 95. The Pats went to two Super Bowls in that era (and a lot less of them had been played at that point). There are 4 teams that have never even been to one.
We went to one SB in that era in 86 and got rolled by the Bears. It was the worst SB loss in history to that point. Our next SB was after Kraft bought the team and Parcells took us to the SB in 96, not 95. Before that there was tons of years of being the worst 3-5 teams in the league. They had 4 number 1 picks in that time because they were the worst team in the league. Chuck Fairbanks leaving. The early 80s. Irving Fryar. Terry Glenn, Darryl Stingley, Victor Kiam, James Orthwein, moving to St Louis, moving to Hartford, Will McDonough beating up Raymond Clayborn, Lisa Olsen, Dave Meggett. The list goes on. We were a laughing stock of the league. Believe me I was there the day we tore down the goalposts because we made the playoffs in 85 and then had a guy almost die on route 1 because of it when they brought the goalpost out of the stadium and it hit an electrical line.

We were the laughing stock of the league at the time.

Have any of you ever been to a game in Schaefer/Sullivan/Foxborough Stadium? The aluminum seats. The no parking on the stadium side, the Foxboro Raceway, the crap field, the horrible care of the stadium during snowstorms....
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: chicagoceltic on January 21, 2018, 10:30:18 PM
Non-New England/Boston fans are always quick to hit me with the guilt of being a spoiled fan.  Just want to enjoy it for a couple of hours!
Spoiled? An entitlement isn't being spoiled. Is Prince William spoiled? He can't help he was born the way he was.
Those people should have tried to be a Pats fan from 1970-1995. The Pats were the joke of the league. They were constantly rumored to be leaving town. Hell, their management couldn't make money off a Michael Jackson tour. Being a Pats fan then was like being a Clippers fan before Blake Griffin.

Nothing entitled about being a Pats fan. Our fandom earned being what we are today.
I'm not sure you can say the Pats were the joke of the league from 70 to 95. The Pats went to two Super Bowls in that era (and a lot less of them had been played at that point). There are 4 teams that have never even been to one.
We went to one SB in that era in 86 and got rolled by the Bears. It was the worst SB loss in history to that point. Our next SB was after Kraft bought the team and Parcells took us to the SB in 96, not 95. Before that there was tons of years of being the worst 3-5 teams in the league. They had 4 number 1 picks in that time because they were the worst league in the team. Chuck Fairbanks leaving. The early 80s. Irving Fryar. Terry Glenn, Darryl Stingley, Victor Kiam, James Orthwein, moving to St Louis, moving to Hartford, Will McDonough beating up Raymond Clayborn, Lisa Olsen, Dave Meggett. The list goes on. We were a laughing stock of the league. Believe me I was there the day we tore down the goalposts because we made the playoffs in 85 and then had a guy almost die on route 1 because of it when they brought the goalpost out of the stadium and it hit an electrical line.

We were the laughing stock of the league at the time.
The Pats were not THE joke of the league but they were a joke of the league back then.  It was rough being a fan at times (though I was a big fan of Sam the Bam Cunningham).  So much so that I vividly recall sitting at a bar for the first Super Bowl win that I was in shock that of all the Boston teams it was the Pats who won a world championship.

As for the bolded, my mom was at that game and said that the guys carrying the goalpost walked right in front of her car with it.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: nickagneta on January 21, 2018, 10:37:09 PM
Non-New England/Boston fans are always quick to hit me with the guilt of being a spoiled fan.  Just want to enjoy it for a couple of hours!
Spoiled? An entitlement isn't being spoiled. Is Prince William spoiled? He can't help he was born the way he was.
Those people should have tried to be a Pats fan from 1970-1995. The Pats were the joke of the league. They were constantly rumored to be leaving town. Hell, their management couldn't make money off a Michael Jackson tour. Being a Pats fan then was like being a Clippers fan before Blake Griffin.

Nothing entitled about being a Pats fan. Our fandom earned being what we are today.
I'm not sure you can say the Pats were the joke of the league from 70 to 95. The Pats went to two Super Bowls in that era (and a lot less of them had been played at that point). There are 4 teams that have never even been to one.
We went to one SB in that era in 86 and got rolled by the Bears. It was the worst SB loss in history to that point. Our next SB was after Kraft bought the team and Parcells took us to the SB in 96, not 95. Before that there was tons of years of being the worst 3-5 teams in the league. They had 4 number 1 picks in that time because they were the worst league in the team. Chuck Fairbanks leaving. The early 80s. Irving Fryar. Terry Glenn, Darryl Stingley, Victor Kiam, James Orthwein, moving to St Louis, moving to Hartford, Will McDonough beating up Raymond Clayborn, Lisa Olsen, Dave Meggett. The list goes on. We were a laughing stock of the league. Believe me I was there the day we tore down the goalposts because we made the playoffs in 85 and then had a guy almost die on route 1 because of it when they brought the goalpost out of the stadium and it hit an electrical line.

We were the laughing stock of the league at the time.
The Pats were not THE joke of the league but they were a joke of the league back then.  It was rough being a fan at times (though I was a big fan of Sam the Bam Cunningham).  So much so that I vividly recall sitting at a bar for the first Super Bowl win that I was in shock that of all the Boston teams it was the Pats who won a world championship.

As for the bolded, my mom was at that game and said that the guys carrying the goalpost walked right in front of her car with it.
For the entirety of that time, yeah, we were the joke of the league at the time.

As for the goalpost story, I was sitting in the 100s, midfield and just stayed there and watched the mayhem on the field. Back then, pretty much both ends of the field were open to widespread walking out of the stadium. They tore down the goalposts, which was dangerous looking enough given how much they bent and came down hard, then the mob took them right out onto route 1 no problem. It was mayhem and only the Pats could have had that happen to them back then.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: liam on January 21, 2018, 10:58:46 PM
Non-New England/Boston fans are always quick to hit me with the guilt of being a spoiled fan.  Just want to enjoy it for a couple of hours!
Spoiled? An entitlement isn't being spoiled. Is Prince William spoiled? He can't help he was born the way he was.
Those people should have tried to be a Pats fan from 1970-1995. The Pats were the joke of the league. They were constantly rumored to be leaving town. Hell, their management couldn't make money off a Michael Jackson tour. Being a Pats fan then was like being a Clippers fan before Blake Griffin.

Nothing entitled about being a Pats fan. Our fandom earned being what we are today.

Jim Plunkett  and Steve Grogan, baby!
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on January 21, 2018, 11:22:45 PM
This may be the sweetest SB because it could realistically be the last.  With Patricia and McDaniels headed off, Brady's age, and whatever you make of the media stuff... one more SB win would be a great way to end an incredible run.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: CelticsElite on January 21, 2018, 11:31:37 PM
This may be the sweetest SB because it could realistically be the last.  With Patricia and McDaniels headed off, Brady's age, and whatever you make of the media stuff... one more SB win would be a great way to end an incredible run.
the patriots have won before with various different coaches not names Patricia and McDaniels. Brady is ageless
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: green_bballers13 on January 21, 2018, 11:55:18 PM
This may be the sweetest SB because it could realistically be the last.  With Patricia and McDaniels headed off, Brady's age, and whatever you make of the media stuff... one more SB win would be a great way to end an incredible run.
the patriots have won before with various different coaches not names Patricia and McDaniels. Brady is ageless

Agree. Love Josh and Patricia, but they're not named Tom or Bill.

The Patriots have a good team full of talented players and "team first" guys who are held accountable. They have the proper amount of depth and hungry players who step in when someone gets hurt. They have a very good offensive system with the right players for the right plays at the right times.

But let's not make this too complicated..... it's Tom and Bill.

Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on January 21, 2018, 11:57:21 PM
This may be the sweetest SB because it could realistically be the last.  With Patricia and McDaniels headed off, Brady's age, and whatever you make of the media stuff... one more SB win would be a great way to end an incredible run.
the patriots have won before with various different coaches not names Patricia and McDaniels. Brady is ageless

Agree. Love Josh and Patricia, but they're not named Tom or Bill.

The Patriots have a good team full of talented players and "team first" guys who are held accountable. They have the proper amount of depth and hungry players who step in when someone gets hurt. They have a very good offensive system with the right players for the right plays at the right times.

But let's not make this too complicated..... it's Tom and Bill.

It's silly to discount all those factors -- McDaniels was with the Pats for all 5 championships and Patricia for 3; Brady is getting old; etc.  But if we're keeping it simple: One or both of Tom and Bill will be gone soon.  It's one of our last trips, if not the last.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: green_bballers13 on January 22, 2018, 12:17:24 AM
This may be the sweetest SB because it could realistically be the last.  With Patricia and McDaniels headed off, Brady's age, and whatever you make of the media stuff... one more SB win would be a great way to end an incredible run.
the patriots have won before with various different coaches not names Patricia and McDaniels. Brady is ageless

Agree. Love Josh and Patricia, but they're not named Tom or Bill.

The Patriots have a good team full of talented players and "team first" guys who are held accountable. They have the proper amount of depth and hungry players who step in when someone gets hurt. They have a very good offensive system with the right players for the right plays at the right times.

But let's not make this too complicated..... it's Tom and Bill.

It's silly to discount all those factors -- McDaniels was with the Pats for all 5 championships and Patricia for 3; Brady is getting old; etc.  But if we're keeping it simple: One or both of Tom and Bill will be gone soon.  It's one of our last trips, if not the last.  Don't make this more complicated than it needs to be.

The "soon" part is what everyone is wondering about. Is soon next year, or 6-7 years. People started to say that Brady wouldn't play til 40. Now they're saying he won't play til he is 45. Using conventional wisdom, it makes sense that Brady should have been done by now, and has at most 2 more years left.

If you used conventional wisdom in the past, you would have said that Brady wouldn't have won so many of these tight games in the 4th quarter.

Belichick can do whatever he wants after Brady retires. He's not going anywhere until that day comes.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Ilikesports17 on January 22, 2018, 12:40:33 AM
This may be the sweetest SB because it could realistically be the last.  With Patricia and McDaniels headed off, Brady's age, and whatever you make of the media stuff... one more SB win would be a great way to end an incredible run.
the patriots have won before with various different coaches not names Patricia and McDaniels. Brady is ageless

Agree. Love Josh and Patricia, but they're not named Tom or Bill.

The Patriots have a good team full of talented players and "team first" guys who are held accountable. They have the proper amount of depth and hungry players who step in when someone gets hurt. They have a very good offensive system with the right players for the right plays at the right times.

But let's not make this too complicated..... it's Tom and Bill.

It's silly to discount all those factors -- McDaniels was with the Pats for all 5 championships and Patricia for 3; Brady is getting old; etc.  But if we're keeping it simple: One or both of Tom and Bill will be gone soon.  It's one of our last trips, if not the last.
Its silly to discount those factors, but what is really silly is the idea that this super bowl trip is unique because it might be the last one.

Each of the 8 could have easily been the last one. Its really freaking hard to get to and win a superbowl.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on January 22, 2018, 01:32:21 AM
This may be the sweetest SB because it could realistically be the last.  With Patricia and McDaniels headed off, Brady's age, and whatever you make of the media stuff... one more SB win would be a great way to end an incredible run.
the patriots have won before with various different coaches not names Patricia and McDaniels. Brady is ageless

Agree. Love Josh and Patricia, but they're not named Tom or Bill.

The Patriots have a good team full of talented players and "team first" guys who are held accountable. They have the proper amount of depth and hungry players who step in when someone gets hurt. They have a very good offensive system with the right players for the right plays at the right times.

But let's not make this too complicated..... it's Tom and Bill.

It's silly to discount all those factors -- McDaniels was with the Pats for all 5 championships and Patricia for 3; Brady is getting old; etc.  But if we're keeping it simple: One or both of Tom and Bill will be gone soon.  It's one of our last trips, if not the last.  Don't make this more complicated than it needs to be.

The "soon" part is what everyone is wondering about. Is soon next year, or 6-7 years. People started to say that Brady wouldn't play til 40. Now they're saying he won't play til he is 45. Using conventional wisdom, it makes sense that Brady should have been done by now, and has at most 2 more years left.

If you used conventional wisdom in the past, you would have said that Brady wouldn't have won so many of these tight games in the 4th quarter.

Belichick can do whatever he wants after Brady retires. He's not going anywhere until that day comes.

I think we'd end up disrespecting conventional wisdom by assuming more than 2 years.  But I've got no doubt at all that Brady will be great for as long as possible.  If a religious movement revolved around his legacy, I'd apply to join with enthusiasm.

There's a theory of 'cognitive reserve' used to explain how differently people respond (behaviorally) to brain injury or disease.  It boils down to "use it or less it," with people sustaining better late-life function with more engagement in things like school/work, exercise, social activities, healthy eating, etc.   

But, when the high CR group falls, they fall hard and fast.  I think the same may be true of athletes - a physical reserve that acts as a compensatory mechanism for as long as possible (shielding any larger, core issues), but once that fails you are kaput.  I'm not a football expert, but Peyton Manning's decline seemed that abrupt to me. 

Again, no hard feelings toward Tom.  I'm still not sure he wasn't the motivation behind Benjamin Button.  But the day is comin', big green_bball, and we need to start our preparations.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: SparzWizard on January 22, 2018, 02:21:23 AM
I think everyone here has got to root for the Patriots in two weeks.

Mainly because Kobe Bryant is a huge Eagles fan.

And Philadelphia opposes to Boston in the sports rivalry.  ;D
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: eja117 on January 22, 2018, 07:34:56 AM
This stuff about this is the last time the Pats go to a Super Bowl is adorable
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: hodgy03038 on January 22, 2018, 07:48:26 AM
(http://dreamsports.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/IMG_5073.jpeg)

Plus I was just thinking how big a part of the win that AMENdola was
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: johnnygreen on January 22, 2018, 08:55:53 AM
Did I miss the explanation of why the whistle was blown on the fumble recovered by the Jaguars? In real time, it was clear it was a fumble and possession didn't occur until the defensive player was off the ground. So at what point was it determined that the Jaguar player was "tackled"? That guy had an easy touchdown, which would have put them up by 17.

The Pats also benefited from that pass interference call with less than a minute in the first half. I was surprised that it wasn't just called a holding penalty, as the ball was clearly uncatchable. The Pats also got away with an obvious holding call on the running play to close the game.

BTW, I hope Gronk is going to be alright. It wasn't mentioned, but that was a bad throw by Brady, which put Gronk in a bad situation.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: green_bballers13 on January 22, 2018, 09:00:08 AM
This may be the sweetest SB because it could realistically be the last.  With Patricia and McDaniels headed off, Brady's age, and whatever you make of the media stuff... one more SB win would be a great way to end an incredible run.
the patriots have won before with various different coaches not names Patricia and McDaniels. Brady is ageless

Agree. Love Josh and Patricia, but they're not named Tom or Bill.

The Patriots have a good team full of talented players and "team first" guys who are held accountable. They have the proper amount of depth and hungry players who step in when someone gets hurt. They have a very good offensive system with the right players for the right plays at the right times.

But let's not make this too complicated..... it's Tom and Bill.

It's silly to discount all those factors -- McDaniels was with the Pats for all 5 championships and Patricia for 3; Brady is getting old; etc.  But if we're keeping it simple: One or both of Tom and Bill will be gone soon.  It's one of our last trips, if not the last.  Don't make this more complicated than it needs to be.

The "soon" part is what everyone is wondering about. Is soon next year, or 6-7 years. People started to say that Brady wouldn't play til 40. Now they're saying he won't play til he is 45. Using conventional wisdom, it makes sense that Brady should have been done by now, and has at most 2 more years left.

If you used conventional wisdom in the past, you would have said that Brady wouldn't have won so many of these tight games in the 4th quarter.

Belichick can do whatever he wants after Brady retires. He's not going anywhere until that day comes.

I think we'd end up disrespecting conventional wisdom by assuming more than 2 years.  But I've got no doubt at all that Brady will be great for as long as possible.  If a religious movement revolved around his legacy, I'd apply to join with enthusiasm.

There's a theory of 'cognitive reserve' used to explain how differently people respond (behaviorally) to brain injury or disease.  It boils down to "use it or less it," with people sustaining better late-life function with more engagement in things like school/work, exercise, social activities, healthy eating, etc.   

But, when the high CR group falls, they fall hard and fast.  I think the same may be true of athletes - a physical reserve that acts as a compensatory mechanism for as long as possible (shielding any larger, core issues), but once that fails you are kaput.  I'm not a football expert, but Peyton Manning's decline seemed that abrupt to me. 

Again, no hard feelings toward Tom.  I'm still not sure he wasn't the motivation behind Benjamin Button.  But the day is comin', big green_bball, and we need to start our preparations.

I don't know what you mean by disrespecting conventional wisdom. Brady is the outlier in many ways. He doesn't fit the standard rules.

Peyton Manning had a serious neck injury. Once Brady has a similar injury, your point makes sense. Until then, do we need to hold our breath? I think it is possible that Brady doesn't end his career through injury, but because he's tired and accomplished what he wanted to accomplish.... which is to win more than anyone ever will.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: mef730 on January 22, 2018, 01:00:24 PM
This may be the sweetest SB because it could realistically be the last.  With Patricia and McDaniels headed off, Brady's age, and whatever you make of the media stuff... one more SB win would be a great way to end an incredible run.

Curious, what has been the success rate of all the coaches who have left the Patriots? How have they done without Belichick? That may not be an entirely fair question, since a new coach often goes to a bad team, but I don't sense that they have had much more success than the players that the Patriots have let go/traded that we all thought were essential to the Pats' success.

Also, while #80 was clearly the MVP of that game, I don't think we win it without the performance we got from James Harrison. That guy is huge.

Mike
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on January 22, 2018, 01:07:43 PM
Did I miss the explanation of why the whistle was blown on the fumble recovered by the Jaguars? In real time, it was clear it was a fumble and possession didn't occur until the defensive player was off the ground. So at what point was it determined that the Jaguar player was "tackled"? That guy had an easy touchdown, which would have put them up by 17.

The Pats also benefited from that pass interference call with less than a minute in the first half. I was surprised that it wasn't just called a holding penalty, as the ball was clearly uncatchable. The Pats also got away with an obvious holding call on the running play to close the game.

BTW, I hope Gronk is going to be alright. It wasn't mentioned, but that was a bad throw by Brady, which put Gronk in a bad situation.
They whistled the play dead on the field (I think he was ruled as down by contact). That's not reviewable.

Also, there was at least one DPI against the Jags that wasn't called (Cooks down the middle, someone held his hand pretty blatantly). I thought the Cooks call you're talking about was a good call, wasn't so sure after I saw it on replay today morning. These things tend to even out.

Re: Gronk's injury. I'm tired of hearing DBs complain that they can't hit a 6'6 guy between the knees and the shoulders. That's what, 6 feet of space? If that target isn't big enough for you, you're in the wrong sport, pal.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: johnnygreen on January 22, 2018, 01:45:46 PM
Did I miss the explanation of why the whistle was blown on the fumble recovered by the Jaguars? In real time, it was clear it was a fumble and possession didn't occur until the defensive player was off the ground. So at what point was it determined that the Jaguar player was "tackled"? That guy had an easy touchdown, which would have put them up by 17.

The Pats also benefited from that pass interference call with less than a minute in the first half. I was surprised that it wasn't just called a holding penalty, as the ball was clearly uncatchable. The Pats also got away with an obvious holding call on the running play to close the game.

BTW, I hope Gronk is going to be alright. It wasn't mentioned, but that was a bad throw by Brady, which put Gronk in a bad situation.
They whistled the play dead on the field (I think he was ruled as down by contact). That's not reviewable.

Also, there was at least one DPI against the Jags that wasn't called (Cooks down the middle, someone held his hand pretty blatantly). I thought the Cooks call you're talking about was a good call, wasn't so sure after I saw it on replay today morning. These things tend to even out.

Re: Gronk's injury. I'm tired of hearing DBs complain that they can't hit a 6'6 guy between the knees and the shoulders. That's what, 6 feet of space? If that target isn't big enough for you, you're in the wrong sport, pal.

I'm not questioning the review. If the refs saw the fumble in live action, then how could they blow the play dead when the Jaguars player was clearly not touched. He never had possession of the ball until he got off the ground. The fumble and recovery seemed obvious in real time. If I was a Jaguars fan, I would be ripped over that call.

Like I said, I think Brady threw a bad pass. It forced Gronk to overstretch to try to reach the ball, which then caused Gronk to put his head lower than needed when he was trying to regain his balance. If Gronk didn't lower is head, then the defender looked like he was going to hit his chest.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Dino Pitino on January 22, 2018, 01:59:02 PM
Did I miss the explanation of why the whistle was blown on the fumble recovered by the Jaguars? In real time, it was clear it was a fumble and possession didn't occur until the defensive player was off the ground. So at what point was it determined that the Jaguar player was "tackled"? That guy had an easy touchdown, which would have put them up by 17.


https://mobile.twitter.com/footballzebras/status/955218144435556353
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Donoghus on January 23, 2018, 11:30:08 AM
Pats going "white" for Super Bowl even though they are technically the home team and could've worn blue.

Kinda makes sense from a superstition standpoint.  Pats have won their past two Super Bowls wearing white. 
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: eja117 on January 23, 2018, 11:30:59 AM
Pats going "white" for Super Bowl even though they are technically the home team and could've worn blue.

Kinda makes sense from a superstition standpoint.  Pats have won their past two Super Bowls wearing white.
I wish they'd wear the old 1986 uniforms
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Csfan1984 on January 23, 2018, 11:40:59 AM
I don't even know how the Jags were even awarded the fumble to begin with. The guy never took his hand off the ball, his knee hit he then turned over onto his back then the guy ripped it out.

By the book he already had possession so to technically to lose possession it must full come out of his grasp which it didn't.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: jambr380 on January 23, 2018, 11:41:41 AM
Did I miss the explanation of why the whistle was blown on the fumble recovered by the Jaguars? In real time, it was clear it was a fumble and possession didn't occur until the defensive player was off the ground. So at what point was it determined that the Jaguar player was "tackled"? That guy had an easy touchdown, which would have put them up by 17.

The Pats also benefited from that pass interference call with less than a minute in the first half. I was surprised that it wasn't just called a holding penalty, as the ball was clearly uncatchable. The Pats also got away with an obvious holding call on the running play to close the game.

BTW, I hope Gronk is going to be alright. It wasn't mentioned, but that was a bad throw by Brady, which put Gronk in a bad situation.

Eh, in the end I think everything evened out on the fumble recovery by Jack. If the ruling on the field was that Lewis was down by contact, then the play probably would have held since he appeared to partially re-gain possession before losing it on his back. Because it was ruled a fumble, there wasn't enough evidence to overturn thee call.

Also, Jack was so upset and spiked the ball in anger because he thought that they ruled Lewis down, not because a TD was taken away from him. I think he was perfectly happy [at the time] to have the fumble recovery 'count'.

People talking about this play and the first Cooks PI (where there wasn't a ton of contact, but he was clearly interfered with and guided out of bounds) are just sour that the Pats once again are in the SB. I am angry that the best TE of all-time was taken out recklessly by their player...and all we got was 15 yards for it.

I understand, though - I would hate the Pats if I weren't from New England. We are just really lucky as fans to have been able to live through such a long era of greatness.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on January 23, 2018, 12:21:24 PM
I don't even know how the Jags were even awarded the fumble to begin with. The guy never took his hand off the ball, his knee hit he then turned over onto his back then the guy ripped it out.

By the book he already had possession so to technically to lose possession it must full come out of his grasp which it didn't.
When the ball started getting dislodged, that's when the fumble began. So he was deemed to have had no control when his knee hit the ground. Therefore it's a loose ball and the Jags came up with it. Having one hand on the ball is not always enough.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on January 23, 2018, 12:23:23 PM
Pats going "white" for Super Bowl even though they are technically the home team and could've worn blue.

Kinda makes sense from a superstition standpoint.  Pats have won their past two Super Bowls wearing white.
Apparently the 11 of the last 13 SB winners wore the white uniform, too.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on January 23, 2018, 12:24:00 PM
Pats going "white" for Super Bowl even though they are technically the home team and could've worn blue.

Kinda makes sense from a superstition standpoint.  Pats have won their past two Super Bowls wearing white.

Yes, makes sense from a superstition standpoint, but they're my least-favorite Pats uniform.

Pats going "white" for Super Bowl even though they are technically the home team and could've worn blue.

Kinda makes sense from a superstition standpoint.  Pats have won their past two Super Bowls wearing white.
I wish they'd wear the old 1986 uniforms

I like these a lot, but I don't know if any team will ever wear an alternate or throwback uni in the Super Bowl (or in any playoff game). I really like the blue alternates they had this year—I think they were part of the "color rush" series of NFL uniforms.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on January 23, 2018, 12:24:33 PM
Pats going "white" for Super Bowl even though they are technically the home team and could've worn blue.

Kinda makes sense from a superstition standpoint.  Pats have won their past two Super Bowls wearing white.
Apparently the 11 of the last 13 SB winners wore the white uniform, too.

Not trying to nitpick, but according to ESPN it's 12 of the last 13 winners.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Donoghus on January 23, 2018, 12:27:18 PM

Pats going "white" for Super Bowl even though they are technically the home team and could've worn blue.

Kinda makes sense from a superstition standpoint.  Pats have won their past two Super Bowls wearing white.
I wish they'd wear the old 1986 uniforms

I like these a lot, but I don't know if any team will ever wear an alternate or throwback uni in the Super Bowl (or in any playoff game). I really like the blue alternates they had this year—I think they were part of the "color rush" series of NFL uniforms.

I like the Pat the Patriot throwbacks too but the one time they wore those in the Super Bowl (when they weren't throwbacks), they got absolutely destroyed by the Bears.  Also, every Super Bowl the Patriots have won have been with the new logo & these unis which have been around since 2000.

49ers in Super Bowl XXIX are the only team I can recall that have worn throwbacks in the Super Bowl and that was during the 75th anniversary season when teams were wearing throwbacks left & right.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on January 23, 2018, 12:40:04 PM
Not a fan of the redcoat uniforms (and yes, I know that was the original color). I think the navy ones look a lot nicer. But then again, I also like the Flying Elvis logo, so what do I know...

On a related note... the 49ers have throwbacks?! They've quite literally have the same uniform throughout their entire history, except they couldn't make up their mind about whether they want white or gold pants.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on January 23, 2018, 01:28:11 PM
Not a fan of the redcoat uniforms (and yes, I know that was the original color). I think the navy ones look a lot nicer. But then again, I also like the Flying Elvis logo, so what do I know...

On a related note... the 49ers have throwbacks?! They've quite literally have the same uniform throughout their entire history, except they couldn't make up their mind about whether they want white or gold pants.

One change I seem to remember them making was adding dropshadows to their numbers at some point.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on January 23, 2018, 02:07:04 PM
Not a fan of the redcoat uniforms (and yes, I know that was the original color). I think the navy ones look a lot nicer. But then again, I also like the Flying Elvis logo, so what do I know...

On a related note... the 49ers have throwbacks?! They've quite literally have the same uniform throughout their entire history, except they couldn't make up their mind about whether they want white or gold pants.

One change I seem to remember them making was adding dropshadows to their numbers at some point.
Yes, there seems to have been that one time when they switched from horizontal stripes on their sleeves to vertical stripes on their shoulder pads for a short while... but all in all, it all looks pretty similar.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Csfan1984 on January 23, 2018, 02:07:46 PM
I don't even know how the Jags were even awarded the fumble to begin with. The guy never took his hand off the ball, his knee hit he then turned over onto his back then the guy ripped it out.

By the book he already had possession so to technically to lose possession it must full come out of his grasp which it didn't.
When the ball started getting dislodged, that's when the fumble began. So he was deemed to have had no control when his knee hit the ground. Therefore it's a loose ball and the Jags came up with it. Having one hand on the ball is not always enough.
The ball moving is not out of possession if possession was already established. Every player that gets tackled has the ball move on them. His knee hit and he turns all the way onto his back and slides  and the oppossing player rips it out when on the ground. If the oppossing player doesnt swipe at it there that ball isnt coming out thats more than enough to establish he has control. It's clear cut unless there is angle that showshis hand completely off.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: sdceltsfan on January 23, 2018, 02:29:07 PM
I don't even know how the Jags were even awarded the fumble to begin with. The guy never took his hand off the ball, his knee hit he then turned over onto his back then the guy ripped it out.

By the book he already had possession so to technically to lose possession it must full come out of his grasp which it didn't.
When the ball started getting dislodged, that's when the fumble began. So he was deemed to have had no control when his knee hit the ground. Therefore it's a loose ball and the Jags came up with it. Having one hand on the ball is not always enough.
The ball moving is not out of possession if possession was already established. Every player that gets tackled has the ball move on them. His knee hit and he turns all the way onto his back and slides  and the oppossing player rips it out when on the ground. If the oppossing player doesnt swipe at it there that ball isnt coming out thats more than enough to establish he has control. It's clear cut unless there is angle that showshis hand completely off.

How is it being argued that this wasn't a fumble? Lewis had possession, lost it on the way to the ground. At that point he no longer has the rule of "the ground not being allowed to cause a fumble" on his side. So when he hits the ground for that split second where it looks like he has the ball before Jack rips it and turns, there is no "down by contact" in Lewis favor. It is a simple scrum, complicated by one moment of slow motion, where Lewis is freeze framed with the ball on his hip, laying on the ground.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Fan from VT on January 23, 2018, 02:56:02 PM
I don't even know how the Jags were even awarded the fumble to begin with. The guy never took his hand off the ball, his knee hit he then turned over onto his back then the guy ripped it out.

By the book he already had possession so to technically to lose possession it must full come out of his grasp which it didn't.
When the ball started getting dislodged, that's when the fumble began. So he was deemed to have had no control when his knee hit the ground. Therefore it's a loose ball and the Jags came up with it. Having one hand on the ball is not always enough.
The ball moving is not out of possession if possession was already established. Every player that gets tackled has the ball move on them. His knee hit and he turns all the way onto his back and slides  and the oppossing player rips it out when on the ground. If the oppossing player doesnt swipe at it there that ball isnt coming out thats more than enough to establish he has control. It's clear cut unless there is angle that showshis hand completely off.

I've seen everything from "shouldn't have been a fumble" to "Should have been a Jags TD." Despite being a Pats fan, I think this is one that they got right, after learning more about it.

First:
Quote
Recovering a fumble is similar to completing the process of a catch, and when the ball came out, Lewis never regained total control prior to the ball being taken by the defender. This is a good “stands” call in replay.

But also:
Quote
Looking back to the fumble recovery by the Jaguars early in the 4th quarter, there is a question as to whether Myles Jack is down by contact.

Whenever a ball is stripped from a player in possession on the ground, it is down by contact and no fumble. In this case, the ball was not in possession but taken from an opponent’s hands, so this is deemed as “contact” by the Patriots as Jack begins to take control.

Is it possible that there was no hand-to-hand contact? Yes, but there is no way that can be perceived, so the officials are instructed to treat this as down by contact.

The contact, by the way, only has to occur when a player is beginning to secure the ball. It is held until the player finishes establishing control, and is dead at that point.

This was correctly ruled as down by contact on the recovery.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: green_bballers13 on January 23, 2018, 03:35:30 PM
I don't even know how the Jags were even awarded the fumble to begin with. The guy never took his hand off the ball, his knee hit he then turned over onto his back then the guy ripped it out.

By the book he already had possession so to technically to lose possession it must full come out of his grasp which it didn't.
When the ball started getting dislodged, that's when the fumble began. So he was deemed to have had no control when his knee hit the ground. Therefore it's a loose ball and the Jags came up with it. Having one hand on the ball is not always enough.
The ball moving is not out of possession if possession was already established. Every player that gets tackled has the ball move on them. His knee hit and he turns all the way onto his back and slides  and the oppossing player rips it out when on the ground. If the oppossing player doesnt swipe at it there that ball isnt coming out thats more than enough to establish he has control. It's clear cut unless there is angle that showshis hand completely off.

Huge Pats fan. Massive. I would get rid of my house, wife, and dog today if thats what it would take to get Brady to play for another 5 years.

That was a fumble. It wasn't close. He lost the ball before any part of his body (besides his feet) hit the ground. The Pats got lucky that the ref blew the whistle b/c it could have been a TD the other way.

Now, Brady prob would have pulled another rabbit out of his arse, but that would have been a terrible turn of events.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on January 23, 2018, 04:24:13 PM
Something about this play that I haven't seen addressed anywhere: Lewis had three blockers in front of him, so why was he shifting toward the outside of the right-most blocker, instead of staying basically centered behind the three of them? The fumble might not even happen if he'd done that.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: nickagneta on January 23, 2018, 04:30:53 PM
Something about this play that I haven't seen addressed anywhere: Lewis had three blockers in front of him, so why was he shifting toward the outside of the right-most blocker, instead of staying basically centered behind the three of them? The fumble might not even happen if he'd done that.
I said the same thing when watching. Wondered why he didn't speed up and head down the sideline where blockers had it sealed. He instead slowed down and ran more towards the center of the field(not completely just more right than left towards the sidelines behind the bevy of blockers).
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Csfan1984 on January 23, 2018, 04:37:37 PM
I don't even know how the Jags were even awarded the fumble to begin with. The guy never took his hand off the ball, his knee hit he then turned over onto his back then the guy ripped it out.

By the book he already had possession so to technically to lose possession it must full come out of his grasp which it didn't.
When the ball started getting dislodged, that's when the fumble began. So he was deemed to have had no control when his knee hit the ground. Therefore it's a loose ball and the Jags came up with it. Having one hand on the ball is not always enough.
The ball moving is not out of possession if possession was already established. Every player that gets tackled has the ball move on them. His knee hit and he turns all the way onto his back and slides  and the oppossing player rips it out when on the ground. If the oppossing player doesnt swipe at it there that ball isnt coming out thats more than enough to establish he has control. It's clear cut unless there is angle that showshis hand completely off.

Huge Pats fan. Massive. I would get rid of my house, wife, and dog today if thats what it would take to get Brady to play for another 5 years.

That was a fumble. It wasn't close. He lost the ball before any part of his body (besides his feet) hit the ground. The Pats got lucky that the ref blew the whistle b/c it could have been a TD the other way.

Now, Brady prob would have pulled another rabbit out of his arse, but that would have been a terrible turn of events.

With the first quote it doesn't address the fact he didn't lose the ball till on the ground. Ball moving doesn't matter. We have seen it how many replays on would be fumbles? It has to be out of his hands before he hits the ground.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on January 23, 2018, 04:47:30 PM
With the first quote it doesn't address the fact he didn't lose the ball till on the ground. Ball moving doesn't matter. We have seen it how many replays on would be fumbles? It has to be out of his hands before he hits the ground.
That's not how it works. The moment the ball gets dislodged, he's lost it and it's a fumble. That happens when Jack initially pokes at it out and way before Lewis has even started to go down.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Donoghus on January 23, 2018, 04:48:36 PM
Something about this play that I haven't seen addressed anywhere: Lewis had three blockers in front of him, so why was he shifting toward the outside of the right-most blocker, instead of staying basically centered behind the three of them? The fumble might not even happen if he'd done that.
I said the same thing when watching. Wondered why he didn't speed up and head down the sideline where blockers had it sealed. He instead slowed down and ran more towards the center of the field(not completely just more right than left towards the sidelines behind the bevy of blockers).

He slowed down and started moving back to the outside,  he was shifting back outside because he was anticipating Solder sealing #50 back inside towards the hashes.  What I'm not entirely sure of is whether or not Lewis knew Jack was pursuing him until the last very second.  Lewis was already starting to shift back left right when Jack took him down.   He had to slow up because he had caught up to his other two lead blockers.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Csfan1984 on January 23, 2018, 05:13:55 PM
With the first quote it doesn't address the fact he didn't lose the ball till on the ground. Ball moving doesn't matter. We have seen it how many replays on would be fumbles? It has to be out of his hands before he hits the ground.
That's not how it works. The moment the ball gets dislodged, he's lost it and it's a fumble. That happens when Jack initially pokes at it out and way before Lewis has even started to go down.
That is how it works. It's been long established the ball has to be out. It's not a catch it's a runner
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: green_bballers13 on January 23, 2018, 06:23:35 PM
With the first quote it doesn't address the fact he didn't lose the ball till on the ground. Ball moving doesn't matter. We have seen it how many replays on would be fumbles? It has to be out of his hands before he hits the ground.
That's not how it works. The moment the ball gets dislodged, he's lost it and it's a fumble. That happens when Jack initially pokes at it out and way before Lewis has even started to go down.
That is how it works. It's been long established the ball has to be out. It's not a catch it's a runner

I guess I don't get what your point is. Dion Lewis didn't control the ball at the point that his body hit the ground. Do you think he had possession of the ball?
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Csfan1984 on January 23, 2018, 06:55:18 PM
With the first quote it doesn't address the fact he didn't lose the ball till on the ground. Ball moving doesn't matter. We have seen it how many replays on would be fumbles? It has to be out of his hands before he hits the ground.
That's not how it works. The moment the ball gets dislodged, he's lost it and it's a fumble. That happens when Jack initially pokes at it out and way before Lewis has even started to go down.
That is how it works. It's been long established the ball has to be out. It's not a catch it's a runner

I guess I don't get what your point is. Dion Lewis didn't control the ball at the point that his body hit the ground. Do you think he had possession of the ball?
If he doesn't have possession how does he turn and slide on his back and still have the ball in his hands? If he didn't have it or control, no way it survives all that .. and the guy still has to rip at it further on the ground. Or were the Pats cheating with some new kind of stickum?
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on January 23, 2018, 07:10:17 PM
Something about this play that I haven't seen addressed anywhere: Lewis had three blockers in front of him, so why was he shifting toward the outside of the right-most blocker, instead of staying basically centered behind the three of them? The fumble might not even happen if he'd done that.
I said the same thing when watching. Wondered why he didn't speed up and head down the sideline where blockers had it sealed. He instead slowed down and ran more towards the center of the field(not completely just more right than left towards the sidelines behind the bevy of blockers).

I'm wondering if he might've been getting a little antsy, thinking that his blockers were going too slow, and was thinking of darting past them and maybe surprising the defense?
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Phantom255x on January 23, 2018, 07:14:27 PM
Something about this play that I haven't seen addressed anywhere: Lewis had three blockers in front of him, so why was he shifting toward the outside of the right-most blocker, instead of staying basically centered behind the three of them? The fumble might not even happen if he'd done that.
I said the same thing when watching. Wondered why he didn't speed up and head down the sideline where blockers had it sealed. He instead slowed down and ran more towards the center of the field(not completely just more right than left towards the sidelines behind the bevy of blockers).

I'm wondering if he might've been getting a little antsy, thinking that his blockers were going too slow, and was thinking of darting past them and maybe surprising the defense?

I thought the same thing, but my guess is that Lewis didn't realize Jack was right behind him. He probably knew that someone was sort of trailing him, but he didn't realize the guy was literally RIGHT BEHIND him. As a result, Lewis thought of bouncing out while the defenders in front of him merged towards the sideline, and then got strip-tackled by Jack.

That's a credit to that JAX defense. They are a fast, speedy group, and Jack caught up to Lewis there. Myles Jack definitely caused a lot of problems for the Pats on Sunday, that's for sure.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: kozlodoev on January 23, 2018, 07:15:32 PM
With the first quote it doesn't address the fact he didn't lose the ball till on the ground. Ball moving doesn't matter. We have seen it how many replays on would be fumbles? It has to be out of his hands before he hits the ground.
That's not how it works. The moment the ball gets dislodged, he's lost it and it's a fumble. That happens when Jack initially pokes at it out and way before Lewis has even started to go down.
That is how it works. It's been long established the ball has to be out. It's not a catch it's a runner
Well, the ball was "out" the moment Jack poked at it and it got dislodged. The moment you start bobbling the ball is when you fumble. That's been the rule (for reference, see the Sefarian-Jenkins non-TD). To regain control, you are under receiver rules, so you have to survive the ground. That didn't happen.
Title: Re: Patriots 2017 season
Post by: Csfan1984 on January 23, 2018, 07:27:33 PM
With the first quote it doesn't address the fact he didn't lose the ball till on the ground. Ball moving doesn't matter. We have seen it how many replays on would be fumbles? It has to be out of his hands before he hits the ground.
That's not how it works. The moment the ball gets dislodged, he's lost it and it's a fumble. That happens when Jack initially pokes at it out and way before Lewis has even started to go down.
That is how it works. It's been long established the ball has to be out. It's not a catch it's a runner
Well, the ball was "out" the moment Jack poked at it and it got dislodged. The moment you start bobbling the ball is when you fumble. That's been the rule (for reference, see the Sefarian-Jenkins non-TD). To regain control, you are under receiver rules, so you have to survive the ground. That didn't happen.
That ball was literally in the air.