CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: KG Living Legend on August 23, 2017, 08:42:08 PM
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Tell me something positive , that's not being talked about much or you feel is being overlooked about the KI trade. Just noticed his initials start are Ki, maybe we should call him King Irving just to really tick off LJ.
For me it's The Kyrie and Tatum connection. I think those two by themselves are going to be a top duo in the league. Then when you add in names like Hayward, Brown, Horford now your talking.
I'm saying Irving is playing in Boston for the next Seven years with Tatum.
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Possible undervalued aspect of the trade: If you are a fan who likes ISO ball, we've added three players to the roster (Irving, Morris & Tatum) who all are good at isolation plays and rely on them heavily for their scoring.
If you don't like ISO ball, move along.
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the fact that the three jersey numbers of tatum, brown and irving = 18 ya know banner 18
0(tatum)+7(brown)+11(irving)=18!!!!
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Kyrie Irving is 7" taller than Isaiah Thomas.
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If you don't like ISO ball, move along.
So? Do we need a new coach?
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Kyrie Irving is 7" taller than Isaiah Thomas.
Kyrie Irving grew to 6'5? Cool, we can just start him at SG down the road.
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Kyrie Irving is 7" taller than Isaiah Thomas.
Kyrie Irving grew to 6'5? Cool, we can just start him at SG down the road.
That would be an 8" difference, Koz (unless IT grew to 5'10"). Thank you for pointing out my fat fingers. I meant 6".
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The number 1 answer is....
The Olympic connection.
Danny values having someone who is an Olympian. Not only because of the obvious top talent that player has to be, but because of the connections they can make.. Kyrie instantly becomes a recruiter to other Olympian, potential/upcoming free agents.
Remember, it was rumored that Lebron, Wade, Bosh and others discussed teaming up while in China in 2008.
What connections did Kyrie make last year in Rio?
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Jae Crowder averaged 32 minutes last season.
Avery Bradley averaged 33. We just cleared an additional 65 minutes at the wings where we have some young studs in the making.
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The fact that after this season we would have had to sign IT to a $30m max extension, which would have left is with about $85m worth of cap space committed to the trio of Thomas, Hayward and Horford - a trio that simply is not good enough to forge a contender. With that trio under contract we'd have had zero cap flexibility for the next 3-4 years and would never get past the ECF.
Kyrie on the other hand is locked in to around $18m over the next 2-3 years, which is much more flexible then the ~$30m we'd be paying Thomas, and that $12M or so saving may be enough to allow is a bit of flexibility to add other talent - in trades at the very least.
Kyrie is already a slightly better overall player then Thomas is and, at 25 years of age, he still has room to improve. The fact that he's 6'4" and that his game is more dependant on skill than athleticism, means that his game should age well...as opposed to Thomas who will likely drop off a cliff as soon as he starts losing his athleticism - and at 28, will likely start happening in the next 1-3 years). By that time Kyrie will only just be reaching his prime years and should be at his best...
That's assuming IT even sticks aound, Cleveland may well elect not to re-sign him.
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Kyrie Irving has the best handles ever in the history of the NBA.
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The fact that after this season we would have had to sign IT to a $30m max extension, which would have left is with about $85m worth of cap space committed to the trio of Thomas, Hayward and Horford - a trio that simply is not good enough to forge a contender. With that trio under contract we'd have had zero cap flexibility for the next 3-4 years and would never get past the ECF.
Kyrie on the other hand is locked in to around $18m over the next 2-3 years, which is much more flexible then the ~$30m we'd be paying Thomas, and that $12M or so saving may be enough to allow is a bit of flexibility to add other talent - in trades at the very least.
Kyrie is already a slightly better overall player then Thomas is and, at 25 years of age, he still has room to improve. The fact that he's 6'4" and that his game is more dependant on skill than athleticism, means that his game should age well...as opposed to Thomas who will likely drop off a cliff as soon as he starts losing his athleticism - and at 28, will likely start happening in the next 1-3 years). By that time Kyrie will only just be reaching his prime years and should be at his best...
That's assuming IT even sticks aound, Cleveland may well elect not to re-sign him.
Though I agree with almost everything you wrote, I don't think it is a sure thing Thomas will get the max. He definitely very much wants it, but I wonder if any team would be crazy enough to give it to him considering he will be 29 next year. If he repeats the same year he had last season and shows recovery from the hip, maybe he could get something like 4yr/100 from a bad team. A good, well-run team would probably not go over 3 years with any offer, with the AAV being a little higher.
Now that he's on the Cavs, maybe LeBron will give his numbers a little boost. I still think that it will be hard for him to stay fresh an entire year, however, especially now that LeBron has to pace himself as well.
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They are not gonna max IT. Will only be left with the Brooklyn pick after a few years. Great deal.
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I am still really excited to see what Brad can do with a player with Kyrie's skill level.
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The fact that after this season we would have had to sign IT to a $30m max extension, which would have left is with about $85m worth of cap space committed to the trio of Thomas, Hayward and Horford - a trio that simply is not good enough to forge a contender. With that trio under contract we'd have had zero cap flexibility for the next 3-4 years and would never get past the ECF.
Kyrie on the other hand is locked in to around $18m over the next 2-3 years, which is much more flexible then the ~$30m we'd be paying Thomas, and that $12M or so saving may be enough to allow is a bit of flexibility to add other talent - in trades at the very least.
Kyrie is already a slightly better overall player then Thomas is and, at 25 years of age, he still has room to improve. The fact that he's 6'4" and that his game is more dependant on skill than athleticism, means that his game should age well...as opposed to Thomas who will likely drop off a cliff as soon as he starts losing his athleticism - and at 28, will likely start happening in the next 1-3 years). By that time Kyrie will only just be reaching his prime years and should be at his best...
That's assuming IT even sticks aound, Cleveland may well elect not to re-sign him.
Though I agree with almost everything you wrote, I don't think it is a sure thing Thomas will get the max. He definitely very much wants it, but I wonder if any team would be crazy enough to give it to him considering he will be 29 next year. If he repeats the same year he had last season and shows recovery from the hip, maybe he could get something like 4yr/100 from a bad team. A good, well-run team would probably not go over 3 years with any offer, with the AAV being a little higher.
Now that he's on the Cavs, maybe LeBron will give his numbers a little boost. I still think that it will be hard for him to stay fresh an entire year, however, especially now that LeBron has to pace himself as well.
Can you name me an NBA player from the past 10 years who has:
* Finished top 3 in scoring
* Made an All-Star team
* Led his team to a #1 seed in the regular season
* Led his team to the conference finals
All in the same year...and then didn't get a max contract after that?
I honestly can't think of anybody who has even finished top 5 in scoring and not gotten a max afterwards.
There are going to be teams out there who are desperate for a go-to scorer who can cdominate fourth quarters and lose out games - those teams will be willing to pay max money for a guy like Thomas. If that team happens to also have a need for a PG (or primary ball handler) then that will only solidify their desire to do so.
Not every team will pay max money for Thomas, but many will.
Look at the Celtics. Danny Ainge signed to fringe all-stars (Hayward and Horford) and gave max contracts to both of them. One of those guys was a 30 year old "jack of all trades, master of none" super role player. The other is an somewhat one dimensional player who is very good on offense but nothing particularly special at anything else.
I would give a max to Thomas before I'd give one to Horford. I'd potentially even give one to Thomas before I'd give one to Hayward - close call, but I'd probably lean towards Hayward.
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The fact that after this season we would have had to sign IT to a $30m max extension, which would have left is with about $85m worth of cap space committed to the trio of Thomas, Hayward and Horford - a trio that simply is not good enough to forge a contender. With that trio under contract we'd have had zero cap flexibility for the next 3-4 years and would never get past the ECF.
Kyrie on the other hand is locked in to around $18m over the next 2-3 years, which is much more flexible then the ~$30m we'd be paying Thomas, and that $12M or so saving may be enough to allow is a bit of flexibility to add other talent - in trades at the very least.
Kyrie is already a slightly better overall player then Thomas is and, at 25 years of age, he still has room to improve. The fact that he's 6'4" and that his game is more dependant on skill than athleticism, means that his game should age well...as opposed to Thomas who will likely drop off a cliff as soon as he starts losing his athleticism - and at 28, will likely start happening in the next 1-3 years). By that time Kyrie will only just be reaching his prime years and should be at his best...
That's assuming IT even sticks aound, Cleveland may well elect not to re-sign him.
Though I agree with almost everything you wrote, I don't think it is a sure thing Thomas will get the max. He definitely very much wants it, but I wonder if any team would be crazy enough to give it to him considering he will be 29 next year. If he repeats the same year he had last season and shows recovery from the hip, maybe he could get something like 4yr/100 from a bad team. A good, well-run team would probably not go over 3 years with any offer, with the AAV being a little higher.
Now that he's on the Cavs, maybe LeBron will give his numbers a little boost. I still think that it will be hard for him to stay fresh an entire year, however, especially now that LeBron has to pace himself as well.
Can you name me an NBA player from the past 10 years who has:
* Finished top 3 in scoring
* Made an All-Star team
* Led his team to a #1 seed in the regular season
* Led his team to the conference finals
All in the same year...and then didn't get a max contract after that?
I honestly can't think of anybody who has even finished top 5 in scoring and not gotten a max afterwards.
There are going to be teams out there who are desperate for a go-to scorer who can cdominate fourth quarters and lose out games - those teams will be willing to pay max money for a guy like Thomas. If that team happens to also have a need for a PG (or primary ball handler) then that will only solidify their desire to do so.
Not every team will pay max money for Thomas, but many will.
Look at the Celtics. Danny Ainge signed to fringe all-stars (Hayward and Horford) and gave max contracts to both of them. One of those guys was a 30 year old "jack of all trades, master of none" super role player. The other is an somewhat one dimensional player who is very good on offense but nothing particularly special at anything else.
I would give a max to Thomas before I'd give one to Horford. I'd potentially even give one to Thomas before I'd give one to Hayward - close call, but I'd probably lean towards Hayward.
Ok I'll play this game. If my math is right roughly 5 times are projected to have max cap space next year the Hawks, Mavericks, Lakers, Bulls, and 76rs. So if the Cavs don't max Thomas which of these teams would consider maxing Thomas? 76rs maybe? Lakers? Diving deeper if the Cavs don't max Thomas I have a hard time seeing another team maxing Thomas especially in a deep PG heavy league.
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Positive news: Stevens made some guy named Crawford player of the week, so hot he returned a1st rounder from, I believe, the Warriors.
He made a 5'9" 6th man that no one really wanted into an MVP candidate. Max caliber guy.
Kyrie is in another stratosphere .... with untapped upside. Danny knows. Brad signed off. He's finally got true talent to work with.
Watch. Stop whining.
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The fact that after this season we would have had to sign IT to a $30m max extension, which would have left is with about $85m worth of cap space committed to the trio of Thomas, Hayward and Horford - a trio that simply is not good enough to forge a contender. With that trio under contract we'd have had zero cap flexibility for the next 3-4 years and would never get past the ECF.
Kyrie on the other hand is locked in to around $18m over the next 2-3 years, which is much more flexible then the ~$30m we'd be paying Thomas, and that $12M or so saving may be enough to allow is a bit of flexibility to add other talent - in trades at the very least.
Kyrie is already a slightly better overall player then Thomas is and, at 25 years of age, he still has room to improve. The fact that he's 6'4" and that his game is more dependant on skill than athleticism, means that his game should age well...as opposed to Thomas who will likely drop off a cliff as soon as he starts losing his athleticism - and at 28, will likely start happening in the next 1-3 years). By that time Kyrie will only just be reaching his prime years and should be at his best...
That's assuming IT even sticks aound, Cleveland may well elect not to re-sign him.
Though I agree with almost everything you wrote, I don't think it is a sure thing Thomas will get the max. He definitely very much wants it, but I wonder if any team would be crazy enough to give it to him considering he will be 29 next year. If he repeats the same year he had last season and shows recovery from the hip, maybe he could get something like 4yr/100 from a bad team. A good, well-run team would probably not go over 3 years with any offer, with the AAV being a little higher.
Now that he's on the Cavs, maybe LeBron will give his numbers a little boost. I still think that it will be hard for him to stay fresh an entire year, however, especially now that LeBron has to pace himself as well.
Can you name me an NBA player from the past 10 years who has:
* Finished top 3 in scoring
* Made an All-Star team
* Led his team to a #1 seed in the regular season
* Led his team to the conference finals
All in the same year...and then didn't get a max contract after that?
I honestly can't think of anybody who has even finished top 5 in scoring and not gotten a max afterwards.
There are going to be teams out there who are desperate for a go-to scorer who can cdominate fourth quarters and lose out games - those teams will be willing to pay max money for a guy like Thomas. If that team happens to also have a need for a PG (or primary ball handler) then that will only solidify their desire to do so.
Not every team will pay max money for Thomas, but many will.
Look at the Celtics. Danny Ainge signed to fringe all-stars (Hayward and Horford) and gave max contracts to both of them. One of those guys was a 30 year old "jack of all trades, master of none" super role player. The other is an somewhat one dimensional player who is very good on offense but nothing particularly special at anything else.
I would give a max to Thomas before I'd give one to Horford. I'd potentially even give one to Thomas before I'd give one to Hayward - close call, but I'd probably lean towards Hayward.
Ok I'll play this game. If my math is right roughly 5 times are projected to have max cap space next year the Hawks, Mavericks, Lakers, Bulls, and 76rs. So if the Cavs don't max Thomas which of these teams would consider maxing Thomas? 76rs maybe? Lakers? Diving deeper if the Cavs don't max Thomas I have a hard time seeing another team maxing Thomas especially in a deep PG heavy league.
The Pacers will also have max room, potentially no PG on their roster, and a desire to be competitive. I could easily see them as a major suitor for IT.
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The fact that after this season we would have had to sign IT to a $30m max extension, which would have left is with about $85m worth of cap space committed to the trio of Thomas, Hayward and Horford - a trio that simply is not good enough to forge a contender. With that trio under contract we'd have had zero cap flexibility for the next 3-4 years and would never get past the ECF.
Kyrie on the other hand is locked in to around $18m over the next 2-3 years, which is much more flexible then the ~$30m we'd be paying Thomas, and that $12M or so saving may be enough to allow is a bit of flexibility to add other talent - in trades at the very least.
Kyrie is already a slightly better overall player then Thomas is and, at 25 years of age, he still has room to improve. The fact that he's 6'4" and that his game is more dependant on skill than athleticism, means that his game should age well...as opposed to Thomas who will likely drop off a cliff as soon as he starts losing his athleticism - and at 28, will likely start happening in the next 1-3 years). By that time Kyrie will only just be reaching his prime years and should be at his best...
That's assuming IT even sticks aound, Cleveland may well elect not to re-sign him.
Though I agree with almost everything you wrote, I don't think it is a sure thing Thomas will get the max. He definitely very much wants it, but I wonder if any team would be crazy enough to give it to him considering he will be 29 next year. If he repeats the same year he had last season and shows recovery from the hip, maybe he could get something like 4yr/100 from a bad team. A good, well-run team would probably not go over 3 years with any offer, with the AAV being a little higher.
Now that he's on the Cavs, maybe LeBron will give his numbers a little boost. I still think that it will be hard for him to stay fresh an entire year, however, especially now that LeBron has to pace himself as well.
Can you name me an NBA player from the past 10 years who has:
* Finished top 3 in scoring
* Made an All-Star team
* Led his team to a #1 seed in the regular season
* Led his team to the conference finals
All in the same year...and then didn't get a max contract after that?
I honestly can't think of anybody who has even finished top 5 in scoring and not gotten a max afterwards.
There are going to be teams out there who are desperate for a go-to scorer who can cdominate fourth quarters and lose out games - those teams will be willing to pay max money for a guy like Thomas. If that team happens to also have a need for a PG (or primary ball handler) then that will only solidify their desire to do so.
Not every team will pay max money for Thomas, but many will.
Look at the Celtics. Danny Ainge signed to fringe all-stars (Hayward and Horford) and gave max contracts to both of them. One of those guys was a 30 year old "jack of all trades, master of none" super role player. The other is an somewhat one dimensional player who is very good on offense but nothing particularly special at anything else.
I would give a max to Thomas before I'd give one to Horford. I'd potentially even give one to Thomas before I'd give one to Hayward - close call, but I'd probably lean towards Hayward.
Ok I'll play this game. If my math is right roughly 5 times are projected to have max cap space next year the Hawks, Mavericks, Lakers, Bulls, and 76rs. So if the Cavs don't max Thomas which of these teams would consider maxing Thomas? 76rs maybe? Lakers? Diving deeper if the Cavs don't max Thomas I have a hard time seeing another team maxing Thomas especially in a deep PG heavy league.
You're forgetting that little move they call the sign-and-trade.
I'm sure that Cleveland would be more than happy to facilitate one in order to get Isaiah Thomas maxed out (and sent to which ever team wants him) so that they can get a quality asset in return rather than letting him walk for nothing.
What teams might consider this? Just a couple that come to mind:
1. Pelicans
Holiday is a pretty big guard who is strong defensively, so a Thomas/Holiday backcourt could work nicely if the Pelicans decide that their AD/DMC frontcourt experiment isn't working out.
2. Bulls
Dwyane Wade would probably love a chance to play with Lebron again, and Lebron probably would be open to it as well. Thomas is a piece the Bulls could build around, and Wade is not.
3. Knicks
Derrick Rose is gone, and the Knicks probably wouldn't mind a star PG to pair with Porzingis - and Cleveland might be quite happy to take Melo off the Knicks' hands in the process. Knicks fans would love Thomas, and he'd get all the attention there.
4. Indiana
The Pacers have guys like Al Jefferson and Thed Young on relatively large contracts, yet after losing George they are clearly going in to rebuild mode. Could be fun for them to rebuild aroud Thomas and Turner as a dynamic duo, and adding Jefferson and Young could solidify Cleveland's bench and make them really quite tough.
5. Lakers
If the Lakers, any point in time, start to question their ability to secure Paul George (or the NBA disallows it somehow due to tampering investigations) then they are almost certainly going to try to find star power elsewhere. With Lonzo's size, solid outside shooting and pass-first mentality, he could be a very fun compliment to Thomas's pure scorers mentality. A lineup of Ball, Thomas, Ingram, Randle, Lopez could be pretty fun to watch (reminiscent of the old show time Lakers that Magic seems so eager to create) and Thomas seems like the type who could not only handle, but even THRIVE in the LA spotlight.
Not sure if any/all of these even work, right now I'm just throwing out the first ideas that come to mind. I'm sure there are many other possibilities out there too.
If I'm Cleveland, I want to do everything I can to try and convince Lebron to stay. If doing a S&T of Thomas for somebody like Melo or Wade is enough to keep Lebron in town, then I hazard a guess they'd happily do it.
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To the OP's question. Tatum? Ainge values Tatum more than the BK pick.
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Kyrie Irving is 7" taller than Isaiah Thomas.
Kyrie Irving grew to 6'5? Cool, we can just start him at SG down the road.
That would be an 8" difference, Koz (unless IT grew to 5'10"). Thank you for pointing out my fat fingers. I meant 6".
IT grew to 5'10 before he was even drafted. He measured 5'10 1/4 in shoes at the combine.
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Kyrie Irving is 7" taller than Isaiah Thomas.
Kyrie Irving grew to 6'5? Cool, we can just start him at SG down the road.
That would be an 8" difference, Koz (unless IT grew to 5'10"). Thank you for pointing out my fat fingers. I meant 6".
IT grew to 5'10 before he was even drafted. He measured 5'10 1/4 in shoes at the combine.
This!!!
WHY, on a site filled exclusively with Celtics fans, does nobody seem to get this!?!?! >:(
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C's fans have a very short memory---I still recall how we were absolutely Destroyed/Embarrassed in the ECF series---Everyone saying, how can Danny blow up a team that was the #1 seed--?
Cause we got MURDERED by like 40 freaking points a game---the only game we won, was when IT was out.
Good trade.
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C's fans have a very short memory---I still recall how we were absolutely Destroyed/Embarrassed in the ECF series---Everyone saying, how can Danny blow up a team that was the #1 seed--?
Cause we got MURDERED by like 40 freaking points a game---the only game we won, was when IT was out.
Good trade.
For a team that is infamous for it's heart, that team in the playoffs played with no heart at all.
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Fans are undervaluing the fact that all of our moves combine, and don't just happen in isolation. Name one other team with:
2 young All-Stars in their mid 20s
Al Horford as a 3rd or 4th option
3 top role players/ enforcers: Smart, Morris, Baynes
Two top prospects on rookie deals
Another potential top-5 pick
A top coach
A clean salary cap
We're building something pretty great for the next 5 years, even if it means making big decisions and pulling the trigger.
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Fans are undervaluing the fact that all of our moves combine, and don't just happen in isolation. Name one other team with:
2 young All-Stars in their mid 20s
Al Horford as a 3rd or 4th option
3 top role players/ enforcers: Smart, Morris, Baynes
Two top prospects on rookie deals
Another potential top-5 pick
A top coach
A clean salary cap
We're building something pretty great for the next 5 years, even if it means making big decisions and pulling the trigger.
Hayward is 28, so more like late 20s there, but alas I am nitpicking!
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Fans are undervaluing the fact that all of our moves combine, and don't just happen in isolation. Name one other team with:
2 young All-Stars in their mid 20s
Al Horford as a 3rd or 4th option
3 top role players/ enforcers: Smart, Morris, Baynes
Two top prospects on rookie deals
Another potential top-5 pick
A top coach
A clean salary cap
We're building something pretty great for the next 5 years, even if it means making big decisions and pulling the trigger.
You could have just stopped your unnecessary list there, no other team has Al Horford.
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Kyrie Irving is 7" taller than Isaiah Thomas.
Kyrie Irving grew to 6'5? Cool, we can just start him at SG down the road.
That would be an 8" difference, Koz (unless IT grew to 5'10"). Thank you for pointing out my fat fingers. I meant 6".
IT grew to 5'10 before he was even drafted. He measured 5'10 1/4 in shoes at the combine.
This!!!
WHY, on a site filled exclusively with Celtics fans, does nobody seem to get this!?!?! >:(
Did he grow or did he wear these?
(https://www.myliftkits.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/LIFTKITS-shoe-lifts-11.jpg)
He has repeatedly said he is 5'8".
Lifts crack me up. Tom Cruise and Sly Stallone wear them all the time. I remember my dad buying lifts for my nephew when he was about 9 years old and a little short for his age so that he could go on all the rides at Canobe Lake Park and it worked. I loved it.
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Fans are undervaluing the fact that all of our moves combine, and don't just happen in isolation. Name one other team with:
2 young All-Stars in their mid 20s
Al Horford as a 3rd or 4th option
3 top role players/ enforcers: Smart, Morris, Baynes
Two top prospects on rookie deals
Another potential top-5 pick
A top coach
A clean salary cap
We're building something pretty great for the next 5 years, even if it means making big decisions and pulling the trigger.
You could have just stopped your unnecessary list there, no other team has Al Horford.
Brilliant observation. Perhaps "as good as" was implied, and it was a feel-good comment not a scientific analysis?
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Undervaluing the fact that it will be extremely hard to double Irving after our bigs pop out to the top of the 3-pt line & set that Brad Stevens offensive screen. If they do manage to double correctly, somebody named Hayward, Tatum, or Horford will have an easy look.
If they don't double, Irving will be scoring at will. Pick your poison.
Trouble in river city.
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edit: double post
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Kyrie Irving is 7" taller than Isaiah Thomas.
Kyrie Irving grew to 6'5? Cool, we can just start him at SG down the road.
That would be an 8" difference, Koz (unless IT grew to 5'10"). Thank you for pointing out my fat fingers. I meant 6".
IT grew to 5'10 before he was even drafted. He measured 5'10 1/4 in shoes at the combine.
This!!!
WHY, on a site filled exclusively with Celtics fans, does nobody seem to get this!?!?! >:(
Did he grow or did he wear these?
(https://www.myliftkits.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/LIFTKITS-shoe-lifts-11.jpg)
He has repeatedly said he is 5'8".
Lifts crack me up. Tom Cruise and Sly Stallone wear them all the time. I remember my dad buying lifts for my nephew when he was about 9 years old and a little short for his age so that he could go on all the rides at Canobe Lake Park and it worked. I loved it.
I don't care what he has repeatedly said. Someone employed by the league took an actual measurement and that's what he came at: 5'10 1/4 in shoes, 1.5 inch shorter without them (which is a perfectly reasonable allowance for shoes).
If Isaiah wants the world to think that he's 2 inches shorter than his actual playing height so that his feats on the court look even more amazing, that's his business. In the era before draft combine measurements were public, Garnett convinced everyone to list him at 6'11 because he didn't want to play C.
This is really not controversial. Thomas is not as short as some people think he is.
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You don't care how tall he personally says he is? Lol. Weird. Ok. Have you not noticed him standing next to other people? There are pictures of him standing next to Floyd Mayweather, Mookie Betts, and plenty of others. He is 5'8". No question about it. Of course, NBA heights are listed in shoes, but in reality he is 5'8".
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C's fans have a very short memory---I still recall how we were absolutely Destroyed/Embarrassed in the ECF series---Everyone saying, how can Danny blow up a team that was the #1 seed--?
Cause we got MURDERED by like 40 freaking points a game---the only game we won, was when IT was out.
Good trade.
Tp
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Im starting to wonder though, with Al Horford being our biggest player, does our success rely on him playing healthy or do we see a trade at the deadline involving him ?
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Im starting to wonder though, with Al Horford being our biggest player, does our success rely on him playing healthy or do we see a trade at the deadline involving him ?
Um we've got Baynes who's bigger than him. To answer your question, any team that has a big with his skillset depends on him staying healthy to some degree. I don't see any team willing to give us anything of value for Horford due to his contract.
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People are undervaluing IT's injury.
It kinda reminds me of when Rondo got his ACL. Technically, he was a walking trip dub threat and we traded him and got a Dallas pick and Crowder, who was an unknown at the time.
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I think Brad went to Danny when Kyrie came available. I'd put my money on why the overpay.
I think that's what we as fans are undervaluing in this trade. Brad wanted Kyrie.
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I am still really excited to see what Brad can do with a player with Kyrie's skill level.
Brad has established a nice track record of getting the absolute most out of his players and I think Kyrie is, easily, the most talented player Brad has coached. I'm optimistic.
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I am still really excited to see what Brad can do with a player with Kyrie's skill level.
Brad has established a nice track record of getting the absolute most out of his players and I think Kyrie is, easily, the most talented player Brad has coached. I'm optimistic.
Last years Celtic team and before was fun . Object is to always get better make the finals or try something new , last years squad carried them about as far as they could go with said talent .
Danny reloaded and I think it will be fun to see if the NEW Celtics can do as well or better hopefully .
Danny did what he is hired to do....try and make the team better every year . Sometimes it works out , and maybe he is wrong . But to sit on your hands is boring.
I love the excitment of a new group , new challenge , new rookies
I don't think Irving has ever been in a real structured enviroment for long , he was hurt at Duke , not coached much , then put on a scrub team without alot of. coaching , just play . Then he gets cut short with Blatt .....the Diva wants to do everything his way .....still no more team coaching .....a yes man for LeWhine is brought in to appease the street ball divas. Irving grew up in a dysfunctional NBA ....lead by a dictator player and not a coach and system.
Irving ,now has a chance to learn the art of TEAM sport basketball.
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For me its the size window created to compete. Irving is only 25 with good positional size and a game that is not overly dependent on his athleticism. He is a player who barring major injuries should be very effective well into his 30s. The Cs could have their franchise PG for the 8-9 years. It is also the first time in a long time that we have a PG without a major Achilles heal to his game.
Rondo was amazing but I hated watching 6'8 guys play 10' off of him as soon as the playoffs started.
IT (as a bball lover under 5'9) will always hold a special place in my fandom but watching team constantly try to exploit him in the playoffs was growing old.
Not to say Kyrie is perfect. He doesn't play D at the level he should and I hope BS can push him in this regard. The fact that local teachers are going to have to deal with classrooms full of 13 year old boys debating if the earth is flat is also a little bothersome.
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Undervalued is Kyrie's upside with Brad coaching him up to superstar status.
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The most undervalued part of this trade is the ability to now re-sign Marcus Smart.
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The most undervalued part of this trade is the ability to now re-sign Marcus Smart.
Good point.
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The fact that after this season we would have had to sign IT to a $30m max extension, which would have left is with about $85m worth of cap space committed to the trio of Thomas, Hayward and Horford - a trio that simply is not good enough to forge a contender. With that trio under contract we'd have had zero cap flexibility for the next 3-4 years and would never get past the ECF.
Kyrie on the other hand is locked in to around $18m over the next 2-3 years, which is much more flexible then the ~$30m we'd be paying Thomas, and that $12M or so saving may be enough to allow is a bit of flexibility to add other talent - in trades at the very least.
Kyrie is already a slightly better overall player then Thomas is and, at 25 years of age, he still has room to improve. The fact that he's 6'4" and that his game is more dependant on skill than athleticism, means that his game should age well...as opposed to Thomas who will likely drop off a cliff as soon as he starts losing his athleticism - and at 28, will likely start happening in the next 1-3 years). By that time Kyrie will only just be reaching his prime years and should be at his best...
That's assuming IT even sticks aound, Cleveland may well elect not to re-sign him.
Though I agree with almost everything you wrote, I don't think it is a sure thing Thomas will get the max. He definitely very much wants it, but I wonder if any team would be crazy enough to give it to him considering he will be 29 next year. If he repeats the same year he had last season and shows recovery from the hip, maybe he could get something like 4yr/100 from a bad team. A good, well-run team would probably not go over 3 years with any offer, with the AAV being a little higher.
Now that he's on the Cavs, maybe LeBron will give his numbers a little boost. I still think that it will be hard for him to stay fresh an entire year, however, especially now that LeBron has to pace himself as well.
Can you name me an NBA player from the past 10 years who has:
* Finished top 3 in scoring
* Made an All-Star team
* Led his team to a #1 seed in the regular season
* Led his team to the conference finals
All in the same year...and then didn't get a max contract after that?
I honestly can't think of anybody who has even finished top 5 in scoring and not gotten a max afterwards.
There are going to be teams out there who are desperate for a go-to scorer who can cdominate fourth quarters and lose out games - those teams will be willing to pay max money for a guy like Thomas. If that team happens to also have a need for a PG (or primary ball handler) then that will only solidify their desire to do so.
Not every team will pay max money for Thomas, but many will.
Look at the Celtics. Danny Ainge signed to fringe all-stars (Hayward and Horford) and gave max contracts to both of them. One of those guys was a 30 year old "jack of all trades, master of none" super role player. The other is an somewhat one dimensional player who is very good on offense but nothing particularly special at anything else.
I would give a max to Thomas before I'd give one to Horford. I'd potentially even give one to Thomas before I'd give one to Hayward - close call, but I'd probably lean towards Hayward.
I am sadly disappointed that you continue to diss Al after his stellar playoff performance for us DESPITE playing through injury!!
Rather disrespectful IMHO!!
Smitty77
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Kyrie Irving is 7" taller than Isaiah Thomas.
Kyrie Irving grew to 6'5? Cool, we can just start him at SG down the road.
That would be an 8" difference, Koz (unless IT grew to 5'10"). Thank you for pointing out my fat fingers. I meant 6".
IT grew to 5'10 before he was even drafted. He measured 5'10 1/4 in shoes at the combine.
And you, Kov, seriously might be the ONLY one left to actually BELIEVE that:-))))
Smitty77
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I am still really excited to see what Brad can do with a player with Kyrie's skill level.
Brad has established a nice track record of getting the absolute most out of his players and I think Kyrie is, easily, the most talented player Brad has coached. I'm optimistic.
Last years Celtic team and before was fun . Object is to always get better make the finals or try something new , last years squad carried them about as far as they could go with said talent .
Danny reloaded and I think it will be fun to see if the NEW Celtics can do as well or better hopefully .
Danny did what he is hired to do....try and make the team better every year . Sometimes it works out , and maybe he is wrong . But to sit on your hands is boring.
I love the excitment of a new group , new challenge , new rookies
I don't think Irving has ever been in a real structured enviroment for long , he was hurt at Duke , not coached much , then put on a scrub team without alot of. coaching , just play . Then he gets cut short with Blatt .....the Diva wants to do everything his way .....still no more team coaching .....a yes man for LeWhine is brought in to appease the street ball divas. Irving grew up in a dysfunctional NBA ....lead by a dictator player and not a coach and system.
Irving ,now has a chance to learn the art of TEAM sport basketball.
I think this SHAQATTACK statement explains a lot about the nature of Danny's bold moves over the summer.
"....last years squad carried them about as far as they could go with said talent."
As much fun as this team was over the past few years we weren't a great team.
Think about it....last season we won a lot of very close games even against mediocre talent. We caught injury breaks in both the Chicago and Washington series. Rondo was out completely after 2 games and later Butler got hurt. Wall's hand/wrist injury surely affected his shooting in game 7. We also missed playing against Toronto...a team we likely would have lost to. And, we got murdered by Cleveland.
Thus, even if this year's team doesn't win as many games as last year we have to keep in mind that we weren't that great to begin with. Many of those wins came about because of Isaiah's insane 4th quarter shooting. It's unlikely he'd be able to keep performing to that level with an injured hip or other injuries that may pop up over time.
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I think what I am most excited about with this trade is that we are no longer a plucky group of upstarts trying to punch above their weight class. We are as talented as any team in the league and I would defy any national fan or media outlet to call us a fake one seed now. We entered this new tier of talent all while keeping Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown, and Marcus Smart.
We have room to rise to a Golden State like level but will be putting out a top three to five team in the meantime. Exciting times.