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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Eja117 on August 22, 2017, 09:42:41 PM

Title: Which team got better and which got worse?
Post by: Eja117 on August 22, 2017, 09:42:41 PM

I think the Celts will now be looking up at the Cavs for years

Title: Re: Which team got better and which got worse?
Post by: Who on August 22, 2017, 09:52:39 PM

Cavs better. Celtics worse.

Title: Re: Which team got better and which got worse?
Post by: gouki88 on August 22, 2017, 09:58:50 PM

I think Kyrie will be the rough equal of IT's last season, and I think our youngsters will do fine in Crowder's role. I view our move as pretty lateral..

Big boost for the Cava in getting wing depth to help LeBron

Title: Re: Which team got better and which got worse?
Post by: Eja117 on August 22, 2017, 10:01:18 PM

Isn't it great when you trade a 2nd team All Nba guy and a top pick and a fine young prospect and a good player on a great contract you can get a guy who was 3rd team all-nba 2 years ago and is a cancer?

Title: Re: Which team got better and which got worse?
Post by: Roy H. on August 22, 2017, 10:04:30 PM

The Cavs widened the gap this year, and now have the assets to improve in the future.

Title: Re: Which team got better and which got worse?
Post by: Eja117 on August 22, 2017, 10:13:39 PM

Hey. Which of these players do you prefer going forward? Ante Zizic, Zach Collins, Lauri Markanen.

If you picked Zizc first or 2nd then we just gave up a top ten pick in this trade as well.

If you like him better than Bam Adebayo then we gave up a lotto pick

Title: Re: Which team got better and which got worse?
Post by: celticsclay on August 22, 2017, 10:18:38 PM

Quote from: Roy H. on August 22, 2017, 10:04:30 PM

The Cavs widened the gap this year, and now have the assets to improve in the future.

Roy as you know I really hate the trade. That said,i really don't get how we could see this trade widened the gap for this year. The cavs biggest problem was/is defense and they got worse on defense with their starters with the trade and got a guy that is going to be banged up for part of the year also. Crowder could be nice for them off the bench but hard to imagine he is moving the needle. The Brooklyn pick makes this trade terrible, but hard to believe we don't inch closer for next year.

Title: Re: Which team got better and which got worse?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on August 22, 2017, 10:21:44 PM

Im trying to envison DA giving IT what he wanted for a contract .....all i see is IT and DA parting ways ......IT needs to get a big deal...I just think keeping IT this year is putting off the inevitable.....of letting him walk .

We ll see how we do ....i like our chances ..how ITS hip holds up  , and how he Nets pick pans out. 


Can 33 year Bron and his new Brinks truck dude win he title this year ......

NOPE ......then let them sign IT to a max deal. .....

Title: Re: Which team got better and which got worse?
Post by: nickagneta on August 22, 2017, 10:32:16 PM

It depends on IT's health and whether Lebron and IT stick around after next year. If IT is healthy and both Lebron and IT resign with the Cavs, Cleveland clearly won this trade. If IT is healthy but he and Lebron bolt while Kyrie resigns long term here, both teams won. But if IT's hip is worse than thought, well then, it looks as if Boston got the better of the deal, especially if IT's hip isn't good and both Lebron and IT leave Cleveland.

Kyrie is a top 10 player in the league by many people's estimation. His age better corresponds to Danny's youth movement with Smart, Rozier, Brown, Tatum and the LA pick.

I think I am going to reserve judgment on this trade until after the season when we see how Irving and Thomas have performed and where the Brooklyn and LA picks land. People are assuming Danny traded the more valuable pick. There's a decent chance he didn't. The lottery is the lottery after all. 

Title: Re: Which team got better and which got worse?
Post by: Boston Garden Leprechaun on August 22, 2017, 10:34:32 PM

Quote from: SHAQATTACK on August 22, 2017, 10:21:44 PM

Im trying to envison DA giving IT what he wanted for a contract .....all i see is IT and DA parting ways ......IT needs to get a big deal...I just think keeping IT this year is putting off the inevitable.....of letting him walk .

We ll see how we do ....i like our chances ..how ITS hip holds up  , and how he Nets pick pans out. 


Can 33 year Bron and his new Brinks truck dude win he title this year ......

NOPE ......then let them sign IT to a max deal. .....

yeah i think we will be ok. people are panicking based off emotion. Jae was nothing special just a good contract. zizic isn't proven. Irving is better than IT and IT could be done and more prone to injury based on size and age now. plus i never saw DA paying all that for IT then him getting hurt again and us sinking with that contract. DA had two straight good top picks in brown and tatum. he thought it was time to part with one for a PROVEN asset and upgrade at PG. No worries now about crowder taking time from other young guys.  Need baynes and morris to snag rebounds more than ever.

Title: Re: Which team got better and which got worse?
Post by: nickagneta on August 22, 2017, 10:44:12 PM

While the Cs may have taken a step back to move three steps forward next year, you still gotta like the offensive weapons we have in Kyrie and Hayward coupled with Horford's excellent passing and all around game. If Brown and Tatum blossom over the next two seasons, you gotta love this move, especially if the Laker pick is higher than the Brooklyn pick next year.

Title: Re: Which team got better and which got worse?
Post by: D Dub on August 22, 2017, 10:47:57 PM

I'll miss IT.  He was a giant, who played like a hero. 

But I'm glad we found a way to move Jae.  He, it seems, was part of the Brinks truck cancer that was spreading in the locker room.   You had he, IT, AB, and both SmArt/Ko all trying to get a big deal and you could see in especially Jae, it hurt his defensive effort. 

Let IT and Jae go try and get their Brinks in Cleveland.   Behind Lebron. 

I feel like Jae fits well with LBJ, but not Thomas.   He can't be a #2 unless he's coming off the bench. Is he really going to make that sacrifice?  IDK.   Seems like it might be too little too late for the Cavs.  I mean, Kyrie was easily their 2nd best player -- the guy Lebron saught out. 

Cleveland is worse today, and maybe they parlay that pick --- but I also like BKL's chance to scrape together an okay team.    I mean, they do play in division with NYK and Philly...  they are bound to win a few. 

We'll see how Kyrie embraces green. 

Should be hungry.

He and Hayward, with Horford -- is legit contender stuff.  And we have future intact with Smsrt, Brown and Tatum.   LA pick gravy. 

Danny going for it, even with the overpay.  Never thought I'd see the day...

Whatever you think of the deal, Bottom line we are a top 5 contender. 

Title: Re: Which team got better and which got worse?
Post by: IDreamCeltics on August 22, 2017, 10:52:52 PM

You've got to be kidding me... We passed on Demarcus Cousins, Jimmy Butler, and Paul George, just so we could give up twice as much for Kyrie freaking Irving?!?!!??!?
 
His highest win total without Lebron?  33 games in a season...

Title: Re: Which team got better and which got worse?
Post by: Kuberski33 on August 22, 2017, 10:54:11 PM

Cleveland made the best deal they could to turn around what was potentially a bad situation and set themselves up to make another run at GS this season with the fall back of having assets if LeBron & IT leave town.  Celtics got a young superstar who realizes that he needs coaching to get to the next level. And he's going to get coaching from someone who's known for getting the best out of players.  People forget he only played 7 games at Duke.

Short term Cleveland will be better.  Long term it may well work out great for the Celtics.

Title: Re: Which team got better and which got worse?
Post by: Chris22 on August 22, 2017, 10:58:22 PM

IT could not even make it through the playoffs.
Another great trade by Danny.

Title: Re: Which team got better and which got worse?
Post by: crimson_stallion on August 23, 2017, 12:04:31 AM

I honestly think both teams have gotten better if they play their cards right. 

Assuming Cleveland starts Thomas (PG), Crowder (SG), Lebron (SF), Love (PF), Thompson (C) I think that the addition of Crowder makes that a stronger all-round lineup then they had last season.  This allows them to bring Rose off the bench as an offensive sparkplug, which also means they can restrict his minutes and reduce chances of him getting injured again - I think this is the best possible scenario for Cleveland. 

If Cleveland starts Thomas and Rose (bringing Crowder off the bench) then I think that makes them worse, because Crowder is IMHO a better overall player then Rose and a better for for the team given his size and two-way skill set.  A backcourt of Thomas/Rose would, IMHO, be a defensive disaster - especially with Lebron (who plays D when he feels like it) and Love out there as well.  I cant imagine they would be silly enough to do that.

Wether Boston gets better or worse will depend very heavily on their youth movement at this stage.  One of Brown / Tatum / Smart is eventually going to be expected to start in Crowder's place, and those will be big shoes to fill for three guys who all (IMHO) have a lot to prove: 

* Can Brown show significant improvement over last year and prove he is worthy of starting? 
* Can Smart finally provide some passable outside shooting to compliment his bulldog D? 
* Can Tatum score against the big boys as well as he did in college and summer league?

As one of those guys moves into the starting five, then that also opens up extra bench minutes the other two guys plus Rozier.

Boston has a lot of dark horses in this race - a lot of young prospects who could just as easily break out or doing nothing at all. 

Title: Re: Which team got better and which got worse?
Post by: greece66 on August 23, 2017, 04:50:23 AM

I'm so excited and I just can't hide it

(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--9Ls_SKnD--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/1311659716734780198.gif)

Title: Re: Which team got better and which got worse?
Post by: LatterDayCelticsfan on August 23, 2017, 05:00:26 AM

The big question for me is what becomes of our fabled elite perimeter defence now that we have overhauled our guards and swings rotation?

Title: Re: Which team got better and which got worse?
Post by: Celtics4ever on August 23, 2017, 07:03:37 AM

We got the best player in the deal.   I think we also got the guy who can help a team the most in the playoffs.  CLE gets to make another run but I like our odds better playing them now.   

We do not know IT's health, Ainge does.  Ainge has done right by us so far, so I trust him.  Maybe he has seen something from our prospects that made him pull the trigger.

Title: Re: Which team got better and which got worse?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on August 23, 2017, 07:16:56 AM

IT is healthy in the CORRECT situation can put up the numbers for sure.   I believe his trade value is no where near what his Celtics court value reflects. DA was not going to max IT and sign him with a iffy hip for 4-5 more years . 

The trade was Nets pick and Crowder a nice player and contract for Irving

Irving and Hayward > greater than IT , AB and Crowder