CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: KG Living Legend on August 17, 2017, 02:04:38 AM
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https://youtu.be/SlZKpPa_Mkk
At 3:08 seconds in on the video.
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Not gonna watch. I don't pay attention to blowhards like Wilbon.
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Short of a CLE roster overhaul (trading Irving and/or James), not this year. Maybe in the near future. We don't even know if IT is healthy. I think we can put a scare into CLE but certainly not "beat their brains out".
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C's probably better than 50/50 shot to win the East since Cleveland knew seeding was irrelevant to their playoff run last year and likely will feel the same way this year. if Irving or Lebron are removed from the equation, the C's should have the #1 seed fairly handily. Only wrinkles in that plan are IT having health issues during the year and the loss of AB having a bigger impact on the team than expected.
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C's probably better than 50/50 shot to win the East since Cleveland knew seeding was irrelevant to their playoff run last year and likely will feel the same way this year. if Irving or Lebron are removed from the equation, the C's should have the #1 seed fairly handily. Only wrinkles in that plan are IT having health issues during the year and the loss of AB having a bigger impact on the team than expected.
This could get ugly, hope not.
Our defense used to start at the point of attack well before mid court with Avery applying pressure. That is likely gone unless we start Jaylen at the 2. He is probably the only one with that ability. I don't see Smart, Hayward or Crowder performing in that role. Just going to be a different type of thing. Hope it is fun to watch and not a desperation thing where Marcus struggles. If he is alongside Rozier it will probably be OK, but will we use that to start games? Not a chance.
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C's probably better than 50/50 shot to win the East since Cleveland knew seeding was irrelevant to their playoff run last year and likely will feel the same way this year. if Irving or Lebron are removed from the equation, the C's should have the #1 seed fairly handily. Only wrinkles in that plan are IT having health issues during the year and the loss of AB having a bigger impact on the team than expected.
This could get ugly, hope not.
Our defense used to start at the point of attack well before mid court with Avery applying pressure. That is likely gone unless we start Jaylen at the 2. He is probably the only one with that ability. I don't see Smart, Hayward or Crowder performing in that role. Just going to be a different type of thing. Hope it is fun to watch and not a desperation thing where Marcus struggles. If he is alongside Rozier it will probably be OK, but will we use that to start games? Not a chance.
AB was a role player, albeit a very good one. I would have loved to keep him, but definitely approve of the choice Danny made and am happy to get a player like Morris with an extra year on his contract. While AB did his job on offense, Hayward is on another level and will provide so much more versatility on that end.
What AB did best was lock down another team's [best] player in a 1-1 situation when we needed a stop. While we may need more of a team oriented approach with this going forward, I am perfectly confident with Brown's and Rozier's defensive attack at half court and Smart's containment in and around the perimeter.
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Sorry about your brains, Cleveland.
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C's probably better than 50/50 shot to win the East since Cleveland knew seeding was irrelevant to their playoff run last year and likely will feel the same way this year. if Irving or Lebron are removed from the equation, the C's should have the #1 seed fairly handily. Only wrinkles in that plan are IT having health issues during the year and the loss of AB having a bigger impact on the team than expected.
This could get ugly, hope not.
Our defense used to start at the point of attack well before mid court with Avery applying pressure. That is likely gone unless we start Jaylen at the 2. He is probably the only one with that ability. I don't see Smart, Hayward or Crowder performing in that role. Just going to be a different type of thing. Hope it is fun to watch and not a desperation thing where Marcus struggles. If he is alongside Rozier it will probably be OK, but will we use that to start games? Not a chance.
See, this is why I'm not scared of the fact that Bradley is no longer on the team. My expectations are that Coach Stevens will create an offense and a defense based on the players on the team this year, not last year.
So he may go completely away from the style they had in the past, because some of our players are gone and new ones have arrived. This is part of the challenge of coaching...and an area that I believe Coach Stevens will excel in, both in this year and beyond.
Adapt and thrive mentality.
Rak
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C's probably better than 50/50 shot to win the East since Cleveland knew seeding was irrelevant to their playoff run last year and likely will feel the same way this year. if Irving or Lebron are removed from the equation, the C's should have the #1 seed fairly handily. Only wrinkles in that plan are IT having health issues during the year and the loss of AB having a bigger impact on the team than expected.
Our defense used to start at the point of attack well before mid court with Avery applying pressure. That is likely gone unless we start Jaylen at the 2. He is probably the only one with that ability. I don't see Smart, Hayward or Crowder performing in that role. Just going to be a different type of thing. Hope it is fun to watch and not a desperation thing where Marcus struggles. If he is alongside Rozier it will probably be OK, but will we use that to start games? Not a chance.
AB was a role player, albeit a very good one. I would have loved to keep him, but definitely approve of the choice Danny made and am happy to get a player like Morris with an extra year on his contract. While AB did his job on offense, Hayward is on another level and will provide so much more versatility on that end.
What AB did best was lock down another team's [best] player in a 1-1 situation when we needed a stop. While we may need more of a team oriented approach with this going forward, I am perfectly confident with Brown's and Rozier's defensive attack at half court and Smart's containment in and around the perimeter.
Loved AB, but he was not the best fit next to IT. Having more length at the 2 is going to help on D.
Biggest questions to me are whether JB can earn starting minutes at the 2 and whether Marcus can become a league average 3-point shooter. A defensive end of game lineup of MS, JB, GH, Al, and one of Baynes, Morris, or Crowder, depending on matchups, should be very stout. Switch almost anything, with plus to elite on-ball defenders. .
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This isn't what I expect to happen and I'd rather not have the media talk about us as the favorites, because favorites often play less motivated ball than under dogs.
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C's probably better than 50/50 shot to win the East since Cleveland knew seeding was irrelevant to their playoff run last year and likely will feel the same way this year. if Irving or Lebron are removed from the equation, the C's should have the #1 seed fairly handily. Only wrinkles in that plan are IT having health issues during the year and the loss of AB having a bigger impact on the team than expected.
Keeping AB would've been great, but he's a role player, nothing more. We'll miss his defense, but our overall talent has been upgraded significantly. We'll be a better offensive team on many levels. We added one of the best small forwards in the league, added a great looking rookie, and have the likelihood that Brown will improve significantly.
Barring injuries, this is going to be a much better team that we had last year. It might not show up in November, but as the season goes on, I think it's going to be pretty evident.
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AB was great but lets be serious here. He missed 27 games last season and we still finished first in the East. Smart is comparable on the defensive end and Hayward is a far superior offensive player. Stinks we lost him, but this team has overcome much worse adversity.
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This isn't what I expect to happen and I'd rather not have the media talk about us as the favorites, because favorites often play less motivated ball than under dogs.
We're contenders but we are not the favorites.
The Vegas line is Cleveland +450 and Boston is +800, depending on which sportsbook you use. But there's a lot of noise in Cleveland with Kyrie wanting out and Lebron leaving at the end of this year. They can either pull together or split apart from a chemistry standpoint and it appears they're going the split route right now. So of course Boston is being anointed as the new favorites because that's what these Talking Heads do but it doesn't mean that has any basis in reality.
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Given that they just beat our brains out in the playoffs and (so far) are running back the same core, I think I'll wait and see rather than take Mr Wilbon's word for it.
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Given that they just beat our brains out in the playoffs and (so far) are running back the same core, I think I'll wait and see rather than take Mr Wilbon's word for it.
I think people are expecting Irving to be moved before the season so it shouldn't be the same core.
Personally, I'm skeptical that the Cavs find a deal for Kyrie that suits them before the season. If LeBron leaves after next year I think Kyrie would be willing to stay to be the face of the franchise.
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Given that they just beat our brains out in the playoffs and (so far) are running back the same core, I think I'll wait and see rather than take Mr Wilbon's word for it.
Our best player played hurt and we still beat them in their home without him, if it's the opposite we easily sweep them
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Have to repeat myself here.
Beat brains out?
Recently, I watched the Cav's beat my teams' brains out.
..."Last regular season game plus 5 playoffs games(points/record below). Don't come out of that kind of beat down with anything, but, happiness that we have a reworked roster...that last one didn't get it done did it?"
1-5
Cavs--716- Celtics---593
The Celtics couldn't shoot or defend...at all.
Personally, I see the team as better this year. Bradley and Horford were the Celtics two best players in the playoffs this year. I base this on watching the games...not rolling back through stat lines.
Bradley is subtracted and Hayward is added. Team is better. It will be up to the other players to step up and prevent getting their brains beat out by what looks like the same Cav's team as they faced last spring.
They "better" be better that crap was awful.
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Even if Lebron and Irving stay, the Celtics should be favored to make it to the Finals this year.
People magically forget that the 4-1 loss in the ECF featured a one-legged (one-hipped?) Isaiah Thomas for just 1.5 games. The Celtics basically played that series minus the 5th best player in the league last year.
The Cavs' salary situation made it such that they couldn't upgrade at all in the offseason. Their bench is about to be Derek Rose, Iman Shumpert, Channing Frye, a 37-year-old Richard Jefferson, Jose Calderon, and Jeff Green.
The Celtics essentially swapped Avery Bradley and Kelly Olynyk for Gordon Hayward and Marcus Morris, then swapped a cooked Amir Johnson for Aron Baynes. Meanwhile they got an injection of youth to their bench (Yabusele, Zizic, Tatum, Nader) while some of their young players are now one year more mature (J. Brown, Smart, Rozier).
Seriously... Why the assumption that the Celtics are destined to lose in the ECF once again? Lebron is a great player, but he's from infallible and he'll be 33. The Celtics should be favorites to come out of the East, assuming Isaiah's hip is intact.
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So Cleveland should keep KI if they know Lebrons gone.
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I tend to agree with Wilson usually
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Short of a CLE roster overhaul (trading Irving and/or James), not this year. Maybe in the near future. We don't even know if IT is healthy. I think we can put a scare into CLE but certainly not "beat their brains out".
They said no surgery, which for that kind of injury is great. As long as he heals well, it shouldn't be anything to worry about. While there is a SMALL chance of issues, there is a greater chance he's going to be just fine. So people need to stop worrying about it right now.
Now with that, if the Cavs keeps the line up, I think we don't beat their brains out, but still beat them. Unless they some how turn the lockeroom around, it's going to be a bit ugly, but still enough talent to do well. But the C's have improved a lot. A lot comes down to Brown's improvement. AB was a loss, but If Brown can improve, and Smart gets a more constant shot, should make up for it.
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I don't get the concern over losing Avery Bradley. Although I don't buy that he is just a role player, I think he is a very good player albeit with durability issues, but we are replacing him with Gordon Hayward. If that is not a meaningful upgrade, we just wasted a lot of money and should have simply kept Avery and extended or resigned him for less than what it took to get Hayward.
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Hayward in his jersey:
http://nesn.com/2017/08/gordon-haywards-latest-instagram-will-get-celtics-fans-pumped-for-season/
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Given that they just beat our brains out in the playoffs and (so far) are running back the same core, I think I'll wait and see rather than take Mr Wilbon's word for it.
I think people are expecting Irving to be moved before the season so it shouldn't be the same core.
Yeah that's the big X-factor, but until it happens, it hasn't happened, and I'm at the same place you are here:
Personally, I'm skeptical that the Cavs find a deal for Kyrie that suits them before the season. If LeBron leaves after next year I think Kyrie would be willing to stay to be the face of the franchise.
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Short of a CLE roster overhaul (trading Irving and/or James), not this year. Maybe in the near future. We don't even know if IT is healthy. I think we can put a scare into CLE but certainly not "beat their brains out".
As long as he heals well, it shouldn't be anything to worry about. ..... So people need to stop worrying about it right now.
Thank you for your reassurance but I am still going to be worried. "As long as he heals well" is a really big if. You could say the same about Joel Embiid, as long as he heals well, it is nothing to worry about. This type of degenerative hip disorder does not exactly heal from what I read. It can either be repaired with surgery or managed. i am not trying to Jinx him or anything but I am going to continue to worry.
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If irving gets traded, Celtics have a shot to out-duel the cavs.
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I really want the C's to finish they off before LeBron bolts next summer. Regardless they'll be an afterthought after this season so it's all good.
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Given that they just beat our brains out in the playoffs and (so far) are running back the same core, I think I'll wait and see rather than take Mr Wilbon's word for it.
I think people are expecting Irving to be moved before the season so it shouldn't be the same core.
Personally, I'm skeptical that the Cavs find a deal for Kyrie that suits them before the season. If LeBron leaves after next year I think Kyrie would be willing to stay to be the face of the franchise.
Say they have the same team. Are we all saying that Kyrie and James can make nice? That this won't be a Kobe and Shaq dual all over again? And lets not forget all the talk going on that the Cavs needed to dump Love and I believe even James wanted that after this year. That's a lot of drama for one team to overcome.
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Lebron will be 33 in December. While he's an exceptional player, he has to play a lot of minutes for his team to dominate. Each year, it gets a little tougher for him to hold a team on his shoulders.
Next year, he'll be 34. I don't know if other teams will be willing to invest a lot in him at that point. There might be some surprises.
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Short of a CLE roster overhaul (trading Irving and/or James), not this year. Maybe in the near future. We don't even know if IT is healthy. I think we can put a scare into CLE but certainly not "beat their brains out".
As long as he heals well, it shouldn't be anything to worry about. ..... So people need to stop worrying about it right now.
Thank you for your reassurance but I am still going to be worried. "As long as he heals well" is a really big if. You could say the same about Joel Embiid, as long as he heals well, it is nothing to worry about. This type of degenerative hip disorder does not exactly heal from what I read. It can either be repaired with surgery or managed. i am not trying to Jinx him or anything but I am going to continue to worry.
There is a pretty big difference in Isaiah's and Joel's situations.
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Smartest thing for the future of the cavs would be to blow it up right now and instantly rebuild.
Kyrie for a young stud/high picks and the same for Lebron. Sell off Love while they are at it too.
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So Cleveland should keep KI if they know Lebrons gone.
They probably should. It would be Kyrie's team next year and maybe the allure of a huge 5 year max would convince him to stay.
And if the Cavs really wanted to double down, they would just not play Lebron at all this year until he finally agreed to waive his NTC. I get it, a team with Lebron has a shot a championship any given year, but him essentially 'guaranteeing' that he is leaving next offseason is going to make for a very awkward season for teammates and fans. How is it any different than the Raiders continuing to play in Oakland until their new stadium is ready in Vegas?
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This isn't what I expect to happen and I'd rather not have the media talk about us as the favorites, because favorites often play less motivated ball than under dogs.
We're contenders but we are not the favorites.
The Vegas line is Cleveland +450 and Boston is +800, depending on which sportsbook you use. But there's a lot of noise in Cleveland with Kyrie wanting out and Lebron leaving at the end of this year. They can either pull together or split apart from a chemistry standpoint and it appears they're going the split route right now. So of course Boston is being anointed as the new favorites because that's what these Talking Heads do but it doesn't mean that has any basis in reality.
Oddshark has the Eastern Conference odds as Cleveland -182 and Boston +260, so Cleveland is still a pretty decent favorite to come out of the East.
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Smartest thing for the future of the cavs would be to blow it up right now and instantly rebuild.
Kyrie for a young stud/high picks and the same for Lebron. Sell off Love while they are at it too.
lol
They're the favorites to return to the Finals from the East but it would be smart to blow it up? Is there any team in the NBA that shouldn't blow it up, aside from the Warriors?
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Smartest thing for the future of the cavs would be to blow it up right now and instantly rebuild.
Kyrie for a young stud/high picks and the same for Lebron. Sell off Love while they are at it too.
lol
They're the favorites to return to the Finals from the East but it would be smart to blow it up? Is there any team in the NBA that shouldn't blow it up, aside from the Warriors?
Yes there are tons of teams loaded with young players (philly, LA, suns, Minnesota) that should let their teams grow on their own timelines and continue to add to them until they are legit contenders. This may have already been realized with Minnesota. I think a team like Boston has the players they need plus a pipeline of picks still (Brown, Tatum, Nets Pick/Lakers Pick) to continue to plug in to their roster. Teams like Houston, OKC and New Orleans have new superstar tandems they want to see how they work together following a training came and some trades. Other teams like Hawks, Pacers and Bulls have already "blown it up" and have nothing else to do besides rebuild.
If Cleveland really can't get Kyrie and Lebron to play together and can't find a package that makes sense for them for Kyrie they are in a position to "blow it up" and maximize their efforts to get a fresh start post Lebron. They did things the opposite of the Celtics and have the least young prospects of any team in the NBA. Even other contenders the last 5 years like the Spurs, Celtics, Warriors and Rockets have managed to find ways to add a few young and developing players. The Cavs have one other player under 26 besides Irving. Their future is horribly bleak at the moment...
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Smartest thing for the future of the cavs would be to blow it up right now and instantly rebuild.
Kyrie for a young stud/high picks and the same for Lebron. Sell off Love while they are at it too.
lol
They're the favorites to return to the Finals from the East but it would be smart to blow it up? Is there any team in the NBA that shouldn't blow it up, aside from the Warriors?
Franchises like Cleveland never think about the future only the here and now. That's why they'll always stink unless they are gifted an all time great born 40 miles away.