CelticsStrong
Around the League => Around the NBA => Topic started by: Tr1boy on August 15, 2017, 05:03:31 AM
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Who do you have?
Hopefully two are Lakers and Nets ;D
I also have the Suns, Knicks, Mavs on my list
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In order:
Chicago
Nets
Lakers
Hawks
Suns
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In order:
Chicago
Nets
Lakers
Hawks
Suns
Nets ;D
Lakers ;D
Bulls
Hawks
Kings
Pacers, Suns, and Knicks (after they trade Melo) close by.
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Good list... Forgot the bulls
Dont think the Kings will be bottom 5... Bottom 7-8 yes
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In no particular order:
Nets
Lakers
Hawks
Bulls
Phoenix
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Bulls
Pacers
Hawks
Nets
Lakers
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Bulls
Hawks
Nets
Suns
Lakers
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in no particular order:
Nets
Lakers
Hawks
Phx
Indiana
Only reason I have Phx in the bottom 5 is that someone in the West besides the Lakers is going to lose to the stronger teams. I think Phx would probably be a good 8-10 wins better if they were in the East.
Also it was a real toss up between Indy, Orlando and the Bulls but I think the Bulls have a little more experience and talent and I think some of Orlando's youth starts to improve enough to make them better than Indy (but not by much)
Of course this would certainly change should Phx land Kyrie (I think next worst Western team would be Dallas which Phx with Kyrie would surpass) or NY trade Melo (where they'd then be in the general talent area of Indy and Chicago.
A bottom 10 would look like:
Nets
Lakers
Hawks
Phx
Indiana
Chicago
Orlando
Dallas
Sac (I think they're better than some eastern teams but someone in the West has got to lose)
NY (barely edging out NO)
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In order:
Chicago
Nets
Lakers
Hawks
Suns
I don't know about the order, but I think that's about right. 2018 draft lottery here we come.
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Indiana don't look that bad to be honest. Turner and Oladipo are both good young talents. They have an experienced point guard in Cory Joseph, some good vets in Bogdanovic and Collison. and other young pieces like Leaf and Sabonis. They won't be at the bottom of the East
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Indiana don't look that bad to be honest. Turner and Oladipo are both good young talents. They have an experienced point guard in Cory Joseph, some good vets in Bogdanovic and Collison. and other young pieces like Leaf and Sabonis. They won't be at the bottom of the East
I respectfully disagree. I think Indiana is a dumpster fire. What did they win like 42 games with PG13, Teague and CJ McCollum? Now without those 3 they added Oladipo (yuk) Sabonis, etc. I think they are lucky if they win 34 games.
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Nets Bulls Lakers Jazz Pacers ..and one more Hawks
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Indiana don't look that bad to be honest. Turner and Oladipo are both good young talents. They have an experienced point guard in Cory Joseph, some good vets in Bogdanovic and Collison. and other young pieces like Leaf and Sabonis. They won't be at the bottom of the East
I respectfully disagree. I think Indiana is a dumpster fire. What did they win like 42 games with PG13, Teague and CJ McCollum? Now without those 3 they added Oladipo (yuk) Sabonis, etc. I think they are lucky if they win 34 games.
CJ McCollum never played for the Pacers except in NBA Live.
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In order:
Chicago
Nets
Lakers
Hawks
Suns
Nets ;D
Lakers ;D
Bulls
Hawks
Kings
Pacers, Suns, and Knicks (after they trade Melo) close by.
Bulls aren't bottom 5 until Wade is gone, whenever that may be.
Edit: Looks like Wade isn't going anywhere. He will be in Chicago next year, there's no way they will be bottom 5:
https://pippenainteasy.com/2017/08/14/dwyane-wade-should-come-off-bench/
Nets, Suns, Lakers, Magic, Kings
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Indiana don't look that bad to be honest. Turner and Oladipo are both good young talents. They have an experienced point guard in Cory Joseph, some good vets in Bogdanovic and Collison. and other young pieces like Leaf and Sabonis. They won't be at the bottom of the East
I respectfully disagree. I think Indiana is a dumpster fire. What did they win like 42 games with PG13, Teague and CJ McCollum? Now without those 3 they added Oladipo (yuk) Sabonis, etc. I think they are lucky if they win 34 games.
CJ McCollum never played for the Pacers except in NBA Live.
I think you could have figured out it was CJ Miles I was talking about
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Chicago
Bkn
Sac
Phoenix
Philly
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I do not think the Lakers will be a bottom 5 team this upcoming season.
- They've got a very good head coach which is an underrated factor in a bad team's success (think celts when Stevens came here)
- They have no incentive to tank
- I think the Lonzo Ball effect is real and they'll have an efficient offense. I especially expect an athletic Julius Randle to be a strong beneficiary running the floor.
- They've got some solid new starters in KCP and Brook Lopez, both of whom are playing for a new contract.
Bottom 10 yes, but I think enough other teams have incentive to tank that they'll avoid the bottom 5.
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Chicago
Bkn
Sac
Phoenix
Philly
I don't think Philly is a bottom-5 team. A healthy Embiid made them competitive, but add in Simmon and Fultz, they will get decent. I'd says around 32 wins.
Phoenix should be better than last year, probably approach 30 as well.
Brooklyn and Chicago should be pretty terrible. Atlanta is gonna take a big fall, but by how much?
Out West, you'll see a bunch of teams with similar records down around the bottom of the conference, but probably not near the bottom of the East's worst (which besides the aforementioned should include the Magic and maybe Knicks, depending on what happens with Melo).
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In Order
Bottom 5
Hawks
Bulls
Lakers
Suns
Kings
6-10
Nets
Mavericks
Magic
Pacers
Knicks (if they keep Anthony, if not they go to the bottom 5)
11-14
Jazz
Grizzlies
Pistons
Blazers
East Playoff teams
Celtics
Raptors
Cavs
Bucks
Wizards
Sixers
Heat
Hornets
West Playoff Teams
Warriors
Rockets
Spurs
Thunder
Wolves
Nuggets
Clippers
Pelicans
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I do not think the Lakers will be a bottom 5 team this upcoming season.
- They've got a very good head coach which is an underrated factor in a bad team's success (think celts when Stevens came here)
- They have no incentive to tank
- I think the Lonzo Ball effect is real and they'll have an efficient offense. I especially expect an athletic Julius Randle to be a strong beneficiary running the floor.
- They've got some solid new starters in KCP and Brook Lopez, both of whom are playing for a new contract.
Bottom 10 yes, but I think enough other teams have incentive to tank that they'll avoid the bottom 5.
How do we know Walton is a "very good coach"? The only success he's had was as a sub for the best team in the league. "No incentive to tank" doesn't make the team better. The Nets have had "no incentive" for two years now.
We have no evidence of any "Lonzo Ball effect". They couldn't even beat the Celtics SL squad with Lonzo getting a TD.
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So many bad teams...
1. Sacramento
2. Chicago
3. Atlanta
4. New York Knicks
5. Brooklyn Nets
6. Utah Jazz
7. Indiana Pacers
8. Phoenix Suns
9. Orlando Magic
10. LA Lakers
All of the above will be bad basketball teams. Then there are lots of teams like Philly, Dallas, Memphis, New Orleans, LAC are one injury away from being really bad with some injury prone players on their team. This could be an ugly regular season of NBA basketball.
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In order:
Chicago
Nets
Lakers
Hawks
Suns
Nets ;D
Lakers ;D
Bulls
Hawks
Kings
Pacers, Suns, and Knicks (after they trade Melo) close by.
Bulls aren't bottom 5 until Wade is gone, whenever that may be.
Edit: Looks like Wade isn't going anywhere. He will be in Chicago next year, there's no way they will be bottom 5:
https://pippenainteasy.com/2017/08/14/dwyane-wade-should-come-off-bench/
Nets, Suns, Lakers, Magic, Kings
Do you expect Wade to play much? He's 100% getting bought out at the end of the year as well. Chicago has set itself up to tank this year, I doubt Wade will find too much reason to put his body on the line.
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I do not think the Lakers will be a bottom 5 team this upcoming season.
- They've got a very good head coach which is an underrated factor in a bad team's success (think celts when Stevens came here)
- They have no incentive to tank
- I think the Lonzo Ball effect is real and they'll have an efficient offense. I especially expect an athletic Julius Randle to be a strong beneficiary running the floor.
- They've got some solid new starters in KCP and Brook Lopez, both of whom are playing for a new contract.
Bottom 10 yes, but I think enough other teams have incentive to tank that they'll avoid the bottom 5.
How good is Luke Walton? Better than Carlisle? No. Better than Joerger? Not really, Joerger has done more in the past with less. Better than Atkinson? On the same level I suppose but he definitely doesn't inspire his players in the same way.
The only thing Walton did successfully was run Steve Kerr's sets on one of the best teams we've ever seen. Not enough to call him a good coach.
They do have some better players this year, I don't expect them to finish as low as before but they still have little in the way of a bench and they are going to be looking to clear cap space for the summer. Don't be surprised if they move Clarkson or Randle in an effort to move Deng, which won't make them better.
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I do not think the Lakers will be a bottom 5 team this upcoming season.
- They've got a very good head coach which is an underrated factor in a bad team's success (think celts when Stevens came here)
- They have no incentive to tank
- I think the Lonzo Ball effect is real and they'll have an efficient offense. I especially expect an athletic Julius Randle to be a strong beneficiary running the floor.
- They've got some solid new starters in KCP and Brook Lopez, both of whom are playing for a new contract.
Bottom 10 yes, but I think enough other teams have incentive to tank that they'll avoid the bottom 5.
How do we know Walton is a "very good coach"? The only success he's had was as a sub for the best team in the league. "No incentive to tank" doesn't make the team better. The Nets have had "no incentive" for two years now.
We have no evidence of any "Lonzo Ball effect". They couldn't even beat the Celtics SL squad with Lonzo getting a TD.
Exactly. The Lakers will be trash.
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In order:
Chicago
Nets
Lakers
Hawks
Suns
Nets ;D
Lakers ;D
Bulls
Hawks
Kings
Pacers, Suns, and Knicks (after they trade Melo) close by.
Bulls aren't bottom 5 until Wade is gone, whenever that may be.
Edit: Looks like Wade isn't going anywhere. He will be in Chicago next year, there's no way they will be bottom 5:
https://pippenainteasy.com/2017/08/14/dwyane-wade-should-come-off-bench/
Nets, Suns, Lakers, Magic, Kings
Do you expect Wade to play much? He's 100% getting bought out at the end of the year as well. Chicago has set itself up to tank this year, I doubt Wade will find too much reason to put his body on the line.
Well he won't be superstar level but a 35-year old Wade is still better than anyone on the Nets roster. Add in Mirotic, Lopez, and Lavine and I just don't see a bottom-5 team here. Wade has to play enough for a decent buyout or a spot on a team next year.
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In order:
Chicago
Nets
Lakers
Hawks
Suns
Nets ;D
Lakers ;D
Bulls
Hawks
Kings
Pacers, Suns, and Knicks (after they trade Melo) close by.
Bulls aren't bottom 5 until Wade is gone, whenever that may be.
Edit: Looks like Wade isn't going anywhere. He will be in Chicago next year, there's no way they will be bottom 5:
https://pippenainteasy.com/2017/08/14/dwyane-wade-should-come-off-bench/
Nets, Suns, Lakers, Magic, Kings
Do you expect Wade to play much? He's 100% getting bought out at the end of the year as well. Chicago has set itself up to tank this year, I doubt Wade will find too much reason to put his body on the line.
Well he won't be superstar level but a 35-year old Wade is still better than anyone on the Nets roster. Add in Mirotic, Lopez, and Lavine and I just don't see a bottom-5 team here. Wade has to play enough for a decent buyout or a spot on a team next year.
I see where you are coming from but I have some serious doubts on it.
Mirotic remains unsigned, he could sign the QO for $7.2m but I don't see how that would benefit Chicago as they wouldn't be able to use him in a trade without his consent. Mirotic likely isn't in their long term plan either.
Lavine is coming back from injury so I don't expect him to set the world alight, even if he comes back strong he is still a defensive sieve that helped propel the Wolves to another uneventful season last year. Wade is already talking buyouts and its not even September. Even if he starts the season on the Bulls he's thinking beyond that, he'll be thinking about being healthy in April on a contender.
Lopez is a good role player but he's not winning you games. He was on a Knicks team that did nothing with Melo, it won't be any different here. Add into all of this that the Chicago front office has zero intention of competing this year, it'll be a massive race to the bottom for them in the hopes that they can turn it around in the space of a few years.
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Bottom 5, starting with the worst:
Atlanta
Brooklyn
Indiana
Chicago
Dallas
Mike
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Bottom 5, starting with the worst:
Atlanta
Brooklyn
Indiana
Chicago
Dallas
Mike
Hawks have solid coaching and much better roster than the Nets.
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In order:
Chicago
Nets
Lakers
Hawks
Suns
Nets ;D
Lakers ;D
Bulls
Hawks
Kings
Pacers, Suns, and Knicks (after they trade Melo) close by.
Bulls aren't bottom 5 until Wade is gone, whenever that may be.
Edit: Looks like Wade isn't going anywhere. He will be in Chicago next year, there's no way they will be bottom 5:
https://pippenainteasy.com/2017/08/14/dwyane-wade-should-come-off-bench/
Nets, Suns, Lakers, Magic, Kings
Do you expect Wade to play much? He's 100% getting bought out at the end of the year as well. Chicago has set itself up to tank this year, I doubt Wade will find too much reason to put his body on the line.
Well he won't be superstar level but a 35-year old Wade is still better than anyone on the Nets roster. Add in Mirotic, Lopez, and Lavine and I just don't see a bottom-5 team here. Wade has to play enough for a decent buyout or a spot on a team next year.
I see where you are coming from but I have some serious doubts on it.
Mirotic remains unsigned, he could sign the QO for $7.2m but I don't see how that would benefit Chicago as they wouldn't be able to use him in a trade without his consent. Mirotic likely isn't in their long term plan either.
Lavine is coming back from injury so I don't expect him to set the world alight, even if he comes back strong he is still a defensive sieve that helped propel the Wolves to another uneventful season last year. Wade is already talking buyouts and its not even September. Even if he starts the season on the Bulls he's thinking beyond that, he'll be thinking about being healthy in April on a contender.
Lopez is a good role player but he's not winning you games. He was on a Knicks team that did nothing with Melo, it won't be any different here. Add into all of this that the Chicago front office has zero intention of competing this year, it'll be a massive race to the bottom for them in the hopes that they can turn it around in the space of a few years.
Well I'm not arguing the Bulls will be good. They seem to be a lotto team. That's very different than being the worst team in the entire league, which seems to be what many here are projecting. All I'm saying is a team with Wade, Lopez, Mirotic, LaVine, Dunn, and Portis is going to be good enough to stay out of the bottom 5. Unless they just sit Wade the entire season, which seems unlikely.
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Bottom 5, starting with the worst:
Atlanta
Brooklyn
Indiana
Chicago
Dallas
Mike
Hawks have solid coaching and much better roster than the Nets.
the Nets have solid coaching as well and I'd much rather have the Nets roster than the Hawks. The Hawks are going to be the worst team in the NBA this year.
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Gotta hand it to you, Moranis. You are pretty much the only one, pre-trade, to have the Nets outside the bottom 5 and the Lakers in it - TP. Let's see how many of us can rationalize our way to the same conclusion now ;)
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Gotta hand it to you, Moranis. You are pretty much the only one, pre-trade, to have the Nets outside the bottom 5 and the Lakers in it - TP. Let's see how many of us can rationalize our way to the same conclusion now ;)
I don't even necessarily think the Nets will be better than the Lakers. They might be or they might not be. As we all know, W/L records don't always show who is better (see Boston and Cleveland last year - which I also thought would happen this year, though that was pre-trade).
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The Nets need more adequate bigs for me to feel comfortable putting them outside the bottom 5. They will get pummeled on the boards. As of now they have Mozgov, Booker, and the rookie Collins. That's it?
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The Nets need more adequate bigs for me to feel comfortable putting them outside the bottom 5. They will get pummeled on the boards. As of now they have Mozgov, Booker, and the rookie Collins. That's it?
they have some pretty good rebounding wings.
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This got me thinking about lottery odds. Here is the snapshot from last year:
#1 Top 2 Top 3 Top 4 Top 5
Worst Records 25.0 46.5 64.3 >99.9 >99.9
2nd Worst Record 19.9 38.7 55.8 87.7 >99.9
3rd Worst Record 15.6 31.3 46.9 ??? ???
4th Worst Record 11.9 24.5 37.8 47.7 82.7
So as long as LAL are 4th worst record or even worse, we have a terrific chance of a top 5 pick. Minimum of an 83% chance.
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This got me thinking about lottery odds. Here is the snapshot from last year:
#1 Top 2 Top 3 Top 4 Top 5
Worst Records 25.0 46.5 64.3 >99.9 >99.9
2nd Worst Record 19.9 38.7 55.8 87.7 >99.9
3rd Worst Record 15.6 31.3 46.9 ??? ???
4th Worst Record 11.9 24.5 37.8 47.7 82.7
So as long as LAL are 4th worst record or even worse, we have a terrific chance of a top 5 pick. Minimum of an 83% chance.
The pick is top 1 protected so you have to remove that percentage. So if the Lakers finish with the worst record we only have a 75% chance of keeping the pick (#2 thru #4).
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I'm going to predict that the bottom 5 teams will be
*drumroll*
Atlanta
Brooklyn
Orlando
Sacramento
Indiana
Maybe not in that order, but it'll be around there. All of those teams have absolutely garbage rosters at this point and I'd be pretty shocked if any of them even begin to sniff the playoffs.
I can't see the Lakers being as bad as any of those 5 teams.
Seriously, you could combine all of those 5 teams into a single pool of players, select the 12 best players from that pool, and you STILL might not make the playoffs. Your best starting 5 wold probably be:
Nikola Vucevic
Myles Turner
Demare Carroll
Victor Oladipo
Darren Collison
Who thinks that team would make the playoffs? In the East maybe.
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I feel extra generous so I'll give a bottom 6 list :)
My Prediction:
- Chicago
- Atlanta
- Sacramento
- Indiana
- Orlando
- Brooklyn
My Wish:
- Sacramento
- Indiana
- Orlando
- Atlanta
- L.A. Lakers
- Brooklyn
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I don't get why people think LAL will be better than Sacramento. Sure, Sactown is generally terribly ran, but in terms of roster strength they should be better.
Hill, Hield, Fox, WCS, Skal, VC, Zach Randolph and Bogdanovic should all be solid this year.
Not to mention their other picks, being Giles, Jackson and Mason.
That, imo, compares favourably to the Lopez led Lakers. Sure, Ball is a raved about prospect. But I think he'll struggle (especially in his rookie year with no real weapons to pass to besides Lopez). Jordan Clarkson is an alright player, as is KCP, but they're no better than GHill and Hield. In fact, they're probably worse, if Buddy's Sacramento form is anything to go off.
My bottom 5 is:
LAL
Brooklyn
Atlanta
Chicago
Indiana
With Orlando and Phoenix close, then Sacramento
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I don't get why people think LAL will be better than Sacramento. Sure, Sactown is generally terrible running, but in terms of roster strength, they should be better.
Sacramento has some talent as you wrote, it is just the fact that they control their lottery chances this year and Lakers do not, meaning they can tank and get a high pick, while Lakers don't have a proper use for the accumulated losses. That is even more significant since Sacramento does not own the rights to their '19 pick, making that the logical year they can try to be the best they can. One year more experienced with current 4 rooks and 3 sophs developed a bit more. This way, they could also have an extra blue chipper to insert in their existing core. I also wouldn't rule out a George Hill trade somewhere around January/February. Just remember how the Lakers were OK to open the year, but with having so much incentive to stink, they stank. And got Ball.