CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: rollie mass on August 10, 2017, 06:32:59 AM
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Could it be marcus smart with his slimming to play more point guard with addition of morris on defence
Will it be marcus morris getting his shot or playing with second team
will it be the horford- hayward duo with its better passing than avery and haywards ball handling that combine to be even better than the parts
or will it be Brad Stevens as a master mixologist, churning out an array of different concoctions
Forgot Baynes much prefer him to crippled amir
Jaylen as a starter and add his defense
Rozier and a further year and summer season workouts
This group has tatum semi,yabusele,zizic ,thies ,nader
Could semi step ahead of yabusele because of defence
could theis surprise with his defensive hustle
Could Nader nail his threes
or will it be all around Tatum
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Good post,Rollie. A lot of possibilities.
Rozier didn't play summer league, though.
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My pick is Theis to surprise in training camp and start alongside Horford. He provides spacing and shot blocking which will both be important to start games. I see him as a breed between Amir and Jerebko which basically means an upgrade at that PF/C spot
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My pick is Theis to surprise in training camp and start alongside Horford. He provides spacing and shot blocking which will both be important to start games. I see him as a breed between Amir and Jerebko which basically means an upgrade at that PF/C spot
I was excited about him too, at first, and maybe he'll have a role. But the more I learn about him the more limitations pop up. Not quick enough to be a plus defender on the perimeter even in Europe. Stout underneath but undersized. Theis didn't start in Germany - averaged under 20 minutes/game. Very hard to believe he earns as much in the NBA
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I think Hayward will surprise people and be a force in Boston. As a couple have noted, Utah played at an incredibly slow pace, which obviously hindered Hayward's output. Under BS and next to guys like IT and Al, I think he will have a super year.
Of the others, I could see Yab surprising us if he gets minutes. I just get a feeling that he could be sneaky good.
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I'd be happy if we have anyone that ends up surprising us this year. if we have multiple candidates that could cause this topic to actually be a post-season debate, all the better.
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or will it be Brad Stevens as a master mixologist, churning out an array of different concoctions
This cracked me up, they call bartenders "mixologists" at the trendy bar in town. Fully enjoy picturing it hahaha.
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Danny will surprise us with a killer trade. :)
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Tatum, this guy will be able to score immediately.
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Danny
Brown
Ojeleye
Rozier
Smart
Tatum
Tatum already has the footwork necessary to consistently create a good NBA shot and Ojeleye has a 3 and D game tailored for the NBA. Pretty rare that you could have 2 rookies who could contribute.
The rest are already at or near their ceiling or too raw. Negatively, IT could surprise with his injury.
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I think Hayward will surprise people and be a force in Boston. As a couple have noted, Utah played at an incredibly slow pace, which obviously hindered Hayward's output. Under BS and next to guys like IT and Al, I think he will have a super year.
Of the others, I could see Yab surprising us if he gets minutes. I just get a feeling that he could be sneaky good.
We are a pretty deep team, but PF is probably our least deep position. Morris may start there, but not sure he is a true 4 and doesn't seem to have strong rebounding numbers. We may see a combo of Baynes and Horford at times but not sure how much. Theiss is an unknown pretty much other than YouTube clips. Lol Crowder can only play there in stretches. I see Semi more as a 3 than 4. Yabu is much bigger than him.
Yabu could be only 1 injury away from getting lots of playing time. That's if he proves himself in practice. I like his talent.
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Danny said rozier will surprise people this season
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Rozier and Brown will have breakout years.
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Not sure of a surprise but I hope like hell that Jaylen will have a helluva year
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over or under 12 ppg from Jaylen Brown this year?
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Horford
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I really think Brown has the attitude and skills. First he will make himself a starter and then the talk will start about how good he can be - more than it has before.
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Not really a surprise but I suspect Brown looks like a vet this season. Slows down his game on offense and places more in game emphasis on defense. I think this leads to some all defense talk from the media after a few good prime time defensive efforts.
I also think Brown will have a lot of favorable 2nd unit miss matches this season. With the makeup of this roster Brown will spend more time matched up on apposing guards. If BS trys to even out of offense by splitting up IT and Hayward we will likely see a decent amount of second units featuring Smart/Rozier, Brown and Hayward. This will likely place a weak or undersized defender on Brown.
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Arron Baynes with a working 3pt shot
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I am going with Jaylen Brown and to do a little more then surprise. You might say he will 'shock and awe' in his second season. This guy is a stud in the making and he will get more room to work this season. I have rarely seen as explosive a player and he was just a rookie last season. With another year of training he is now ready.
I also think Marcus Smart will show more then has been given credit for too.
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there is a nice two part compilation of marcus smarts defensive and hustle highlites-
Listening to Tommy and Gorman in awe of his stripping the ball mirrored mine
His slimming down during off season will just make him quicker
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there is a nice two part compilation of marcus smarts defensive and hustle highlites-
Listening to Tommy and Gorman in awe of his stripping the ball mirrored mine
His slimming down during off season will just make him quicker
Wouldn't mind seeing a link.
Slimming down is a good choice for Marcus. The minutes crunch at the wings that's about to hit means that he'll be guarding smaller quicker players.
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you tube
TOMAZ KORDYLEWSKI
marcus smart 2016/17 regular season hustle and defensive highlights(part 1 of 2)
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Arron Baynes with a working 3pt shot
I it heard here first, LDCF. ;D
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Will it be marcus morris getting his shot or playing with second team
I'm betting he starts, at least at the beginning of the year. I just don't think that Horford/Baynes or Horford/Crowder is workable in the starting lineup, and Tatum won't be ready.
will it be the horford- hayward duo with its better passing than avery and haywards ball handling that combine to be even better than the parts
Good point, and in fact add Jaylen Brown to that. The ball is going to move.
Jaylen as a starter and add his defense
I agree that Jaylen will be a starter - he's the real replacement for Bradley, in fact; Brad had him guarding ballhandlers last season, as well as wings.
Rozier and a further year and summer season workouts
Of the 2015 draft class, it was only Rozier who stepped up into the rotation last season. And his 2017 playoff performance was a very pleasant surprise. Still, he's got more competition now that wings will have the ball more. Crowder and Bradley were outstanding spot-up shooters, but neither was getting the ball to create offense.
Could semi step ahead of yabusele because of defence
I'd like to be the one to say that Semi is the player "who will surprise", and I do think that he'll get some burn in February or so. Like you, I love his defense - great laterals and anticipation, keeps his arms up, quick shoulders, stays vertical, good strength to check bigger guys, good feet and fundamentals - but you'd have to slot him behind Morris and Tatum at least; so his competition with Yabusele and perhaps Theis is for the third swing, not the backup.
Could Nader nail his threes
Maybe, but he's on a team with a sudden glut of triple-threat wings. I'd predict that he'll get more DNP-CD's than made threes this year.
or will it be all around Tatum
Given what we saw last year with Jaylen, it's likely that Brad will give Tatum minutes early and often. Mostly, I'd predict, the results will be treated by fans and media as a confirmation rather than a surprise. Whatever his "ceiling", Jayson Tatum is the closest thing to a sure thing among recent Celtics' draft picks.
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Danny said rozier will surprise people this season
Agree with this and I think Morris will become a force so I have 2 guys.
If we can keep him out of trouble he is motivated and has a good attitude. I also think he is finally on a contender with a great coach, good roster dynamic and he is going to be treated right with reasonable expectations.
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you tube
TOMAZ KORDYLEWSKI
marcus smart 2016/17 regular season hustle and defensive highlights(part 1 of 2)
Thanks for that. I guess I could have found that myself.
I'm a fan, but the competition steps up for him this year.
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over or under 12 ppg from Jaylen Brown this year?
Over, but not by much. With opponents containing both Hayward and Thomas, Brown will get the ball by cutting and spotting up. That's apart from any shots that he creates himself.
He would average 12 if he scored at the rate he did in his rookie season, if his minutes were increased to standard starter's minutes (32). Add to that that he already used a goodly amount of his possessions getting to the line, and is likely to get both more drives and more respect from the referees.
Betting also that he's the starter on opening day.
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Arron Baynes with a working 3pt shot
That would be a most pleasant surprise!
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there is a nice two part compilation of marcus smarts defensive and hustle highlites-
Listening to Tommy and Gorman in awe of his stripping the ball mirrored mine
His slimming down during off season will just make him quicker
Wouldn't mind seeing a link.
Slimming down is a good choice for Marcus. The minutes crunch at the wings that's about to hit means that he'll be guarding smaller quicker players.
Id love to see a slimmer marcus. Can he stay with ballhandlers that blew by him last year? can he get to the rim a little more with some extra explosion?
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What would be a nice surprise would be if BS had the roster rotation down before all star break. Tired of experimenting going on for 80% of the season.
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I feel like Semi Ojeleye is my guy to watch. His defense is NBA ready and if his shooting translates to the NBA, he should be able to carve out a solid role.
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I bet it'll be someone we're not expecting. 8)
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over or under 12 ppg from Jaylen Brown this year?
I say its over. I predict him to average 16 a game this year
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I feel like Semi Ojeleye is my guy to watch. His defense is NBA ready and if his shooting translates to the NBA, he should be able to carve out a solid role.
Don't get me wrong I like the kid. I just don't see him getting minutes ahead of Crowder, Morris or Tatum this season. If Crowder is moved or an injury hits one of them, then he may get a shot but there is still Yabusele . Awful steep odds to even get on the floor.
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I feel like Semi Ojeleye is my guy to watch. His defense is NBA ready and if his shooting translates to the NBA, he should be able to carve out a solid role.
His shooting looks ready now. His mechanics are picture perfect, and he has NBA 3-pt range. He can shoot off the dribble and can drive. They even played him in the low post in SL, where he showed he could find teammates spotting up. He's got great hops, too...
It's a very good bet that his shooting will translate. I love Crowder, but I think that Semi is ahead of him for the swing slot.
This guy is really good, and he's got a shot at being the steal of the draft.
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I would be shocked if Semi saw significant time other than in blowouts. A few good summer league games is not enough to convince me he's NBA ready and there are too many good players ahead of him on the depth chart. I expect he will spend most of the season in Maine.
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I would be shocked if Semi saw significant time other than in blowouts. A few good summer league games is not enough to convince me he's NBA ready and there are too many good players ahead of him on the depth chart. I expect he will spend most of the season in Maine.
What you say is very rational and prudent. But I think that you might indeed be shocked.
There's an opportunity for him, with the lack of experienced bigs and swings. As skillful as Tatum is, Semi is more ready for the Big Show. He's got a great NBA body and athleticism, and his game is tailor-made for today's basketball - and particularly for Boston Celtics basketball.
He'll get a good long look at some point - February? - with at least low rotation minutes.
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I would be shocked if Semi saw significant time other than in blowouts. A few good summer league games is not enough to convince me he's NBA ready and there are too many good players ahead of him on the depth chart. I expect he will spend most of the season in Maine.
What you say is very rational and prudent. But I think that you might indeed be shocked.
There's an opportunity for him, with the lack of experienced bigs and swings. As skillful as Tatum is, Semi is more ready for the Big Show. He's got a great NBA body and athleticism, and his game is tailor-made for today's basketball - and particularly for Boston Celtics basketball.
He'll get a good long look at some point - February? - with at least low rotation minutes.
The problem for Ojeleye is that he's stuck behind so many good wings. Hayward, Crowder, Morris, Brown and Tatum will eat up all the minutes at the 3/4. Plus, all this is assuming that Horford spends all his minutes at the 5, so even Zizic + Baynes are also potential competitors for minutes. And that's not even mentioning Yabu and Nader, who are in a similar boat as Semi.
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over or under 12 ppg from Jaylen Brown this year?
I say its over. I predict him to average 16 a game this year
Thats a ton of points.
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over or under 12 ppg from Jaylen Brown this year?
I say its over. I predict him to average 16 a game this year
Wow, really? More than Kobe averaged in his second year?
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I don't at all agree that Semi is NBA ready, certainly not more so than Tatum. There's a reason he wasn't drafted in the first round, teams see weaknesses in his game. Looking good in summer league means just a little bit more than nothing, it certainly does not suggest he's NBA ready. His shot looked good in the summer, when there was essentially no defense, I think he'd likely shoot very poorly against an NBA defense. Tatum, on the other hand, has NBA ready offensive skills. No comparison.
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I don't at all agree that Semi is NBA ready, certainly not more so than Tatum. There's a reason he wasn't drafted in the first round, teams see weaknesses in his game. Looking good in summer league means just a little bit more than nothing, it certainly does not suggest he's NBA ready. His shot looked good in the summer, when there was essentially no defense, I think he'd likely shoot very poorly against an NBA defense. Tatum, on the other hand, has NBA ready offensive skills. No comparison.
Agreed on all points. Folks tend to fall in love the shiny new draft picks and SL does not help in that regard. Semi cannot create his own shot and doesn't seem to have great handles. He's a spot-up shooter and I didn't see a particularly quick release. Great athlete as shown by the Hoops House videos, but he doesn't strike me as having a good feel for the game. He's also a tweener.
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over or under 12 ppg from Jaylen Brown this year?
I say its over. I predict him to average 16 a game this year
I'd say 13-14 but I don't think you're too far off.
Most people don't realize that after the ASG last year Brown averaged about 15 per 36. While I know he won't get 36 mpg I do believe he's in for 28-30 since he's projected to take many of Bradley's minutes. The simple math on that is 11.65 ppg on 28 minutes per game. Feel free to disagree with the minutes but that's what I see Brown getting at this juncture. If he is getting that many minutes it's hard to argue that he'd be worse than his numbers post-ASB.
I also expect him to be a better, more assertive scorer this coming year. Brown averaged 15.6 shot attempts per 100 possessions (11.4 per 36). That's about what Smart averages and Brown isn't going to be just a defensive specialist. Avery Bradley shot 20.9 shots per 100 possessions (15.2 per 36). If Jaylen splits the difference between his rookie season and Bradley's numbers, he'd take 17.2 shot attempts per 100 possessions or about 13.3 per 36. He averaged 1.21 points per shot last year and should be able to increase that number to around 1.25-1.30 with slightly better shooting percentages.
When you do the math it ends up being somewhere between 12.5 and 14ppg. I wouldn't be surprised if it were 14 or even slightly above if he manages to do a better job of getting to the line. Of course, if he isn't ready he won't get 28-30 minutes per game and he won't average 14 ppg.
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I don't at all agree that Semi is NBA ready, certainly not more so than Tatum.
I want to be very, very clear about something: Tatum is going to be a star. His skills are not merely "god-given" - no one can do what he does, especially at his tender age, without a 95th percentile work ethic. So his future is rosy indeed.
But he has made only token strides up to this point in, for example, giving up the ball - he's got a lot of lectures in front of him about over-dribbling and being aware of the clock and of his teammates. Semi is miles ahead of him in this important area; he's just got an instinctive feel for team basketball.
The big area of growth for Jayson Tatum, however, is on defense - both individual, and, longer-term, team defense. Semi - astonishingly, I think - is already playing good team defense, and his individual defense is really, really good.
There's a reason he wasn't drafted in the first round, teams see weaknesses in his game.
What weaknesses do you see? Or are you inferring this from his draft position? I'd be far from claiming that he has none...
NBA front offices are the best in the world at evaluating talent; and yet, every year someone slips through the cracks.
Looking good in summer league means just a little bit more than nothing, it certainly does not suggest he's NBA ready.
Well, you give us an important reminder here. If I may add to your point a little bit, I'd advise amateur scouts to ignore SL box scores. You've got to look at the players in Summer League, how they move and where they move to - how they play basketball, not at highlights, not at shooting streaks.
But if you bear that in mind when watching Summer League play, you can do far more effective scouting than in college ball. It's a standard line that "SL is meaningless"; but while there is truth in that, it's got its limits. Let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater...
His shot looked good in the summer, when there was essentially no defense, I think he'd likely shoot very poorly against an NBA defense.
Frankly, I thought his 3-pt. shot looked flat - he'll need to adjust to the NBA distance.
What makes you say that he'd likely shoot very poorly against an NBA defense? To me it looks like his mechanics are outstanding and his shot-selection is quite good; I didn't see him force anything in Summer League.
Tatum, on the other hand, has NBA ready offensive skills. No comparison.
Shooting skills, yes. He has a wide repertoire of ways to get an open shot, and he can deliver. I agree on that much; but offense is more than shooting.
This all might sound like I think that Semi is a better player than Jayson. No. In addition to Ojeleye's outstanding work ethic, he's a couple of years ahead in working with coaching and in developing his body.
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I don't at all agree that Semi is NBA ready, certainly not more so than Tatum. There's a reason he wasn't drafted in the first round, teams see weaknesses in his game. Looking good in summer league means just a little bit more than nothing, it certainly does not suggest he's NBA ready. His shot looked good in the summer, when there was essentially no defense, I think he'd likely shoot very poorly against an NBA defense. Tatum, on the other hand, has NBA ready offensive skills. No comparison.
Folks tend to fall in love the shiny new draft picks and SL does not help in that regard.
Good point.
Semi cannot create his own shot ...
I think that you'll discover otherwise.
He's a spot-up shooter...
More than that, I think. The pick and pop was very much in evidence in SL, for one, and the roll is not far behind.
Great athlete as shown by the Hoops House videos, but he doesn't strike me as having a good feel for the game.
We'll see how this plays out, but I thought he did a great job of: giving up the ball when he didn't have an open shot; set good angles on screens; moved to the open spot on O; bodied up and stayed vertical without fouling... a lot of 'feel' stuff he's got already.
He's also a tweener.
I don't think so.
Usually that means that a guy isn't strong enough or big enough to guard 4's (or can't get off his shot over them), and too slow to guard 3's. But he's 241 with a wingspan of 6'10"; as important, he's got great lower body strength, hops - and he uses his length. The athleticism you mention makes it possible for him to guard smaller players effectively.
He was highly effective in SL guarding centers (e.g., shut down Zubac after Zizic couldn't do anything with him), in fact.
He's a swing - that weird new category. He'll be a matchup problem for opponents, rather than the other way around.
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Best combine athlete using all scores totaled
vertical,lane agility and sprint
this guys defensive stance is a gift-he has defensive DNA
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Best combine athlete using all scores totaled
vertical,lane agility and sprint
this guys defensive stance is a gift-he has defensive DNA
Beautiful to behold.
Looks like Ainge may have gotten two rotation players in the draft.... maybe better than that.
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Best combine athlete using all scores totaled
vertical,lane agility and sprint
this guys defensive stance is a gift-he has defensive DNA
"I didn't know that he could be matched up on 5's because of his leverage and his strength... His flexibility defensively is going to be enormous. I think that he will compete to be one of our better defenders right out of the gate."
- Brad Stevens on Semi.
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Best combine athlete using all scores totaled
vertical,lane agility and sprint
this guys defensive stance is a gift-he has defensive DNA
Explosive, fluid body, balanced joints, "juicy", springy, quick second jump. Really good NBA body, bottom line.
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Baynes.
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Best combine athlete using all scores totaled
vertical,lane agility and sprint
this guys defensive stance is a gift-he has defensive DNA
Explosive, fluid body, balanced joints, "juicy", springy, quick second jump. Really good NBA body, bottom line.
You're really bending forum rules here. I wouldn't want my kids to read this kind of smut.
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Don't get me wrong, I would be quite happy if Semi ended up being the steal of the draft, I just don't have any expectation that it will happen. I firmly hold to the school of thought that you can tell almost nothing from summer league. The fact that he looked good against summer league competition does not in any way suggest that he can play in the NBA. I think it is much more telling that he was not able to make it at a big time college program. It is to his credit that he blossomed after transferring, and he certainly deserves a look from the Celts, but he looks to me like a big fish in a small pond. I would be shocked if he got significant mpg with the Celts. I am expecting him to be a G League all star this year and not much more.
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Don't get me wrong, I would be quite happy if Semi ended up being the steal of the draft, I just don't have any expectation that it will happen.
Let's check back at the all-star break. If he gets a chance it'll be later in the season, I'd bet, especially if Morris misses games.
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Best combine athlete using all scores totaled
vertical,lane agility and sprint
this guys defensive stance is a gift-he has defensive DNA
Explosive, fluid body, balanced joints, "juicy", springy, quick second jump. Really good NBA body, bottom line.
You're really bending forum rules here. I wouldn't want my kids to read this kind of smut.
Hahah!
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Don't get me wrong, I would be quite happy if Semi ended up being the steal of the draft, I just don't have any expectation that it will happen.
Let's check back at the all-star break. If he gets a chance it'll be later in the season, I'd bet, especially if Morris misses games.
Morris might miss a few games at some point in the season, but not more than a handful I think. My guess is he'll plead to some misdemeanor and get his wrist slapped by the league. Not enough to give Semi much of a shot, if he's even the one that would get those mpg, which at this point I highly doubt.
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Just going on summer league, fluid is not how I would describe Ojeleye. Powerful, fast, quick, but lacking an element of fluidity which great players have.
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Don't get me wrong, I would be quite happy if Semi ended up being the steal of the draft, I just don't have any expectation that it will happen.
Let's check back at the all-star break. If he gets a chance it'll be later in the season, I'd bet, especially if Morris misses games.
Morris might miss a few games at some point in the season, but not more than a handful I think.
He's certainly been reliable for playing most games in his last five seasons. That's a good predictor for next season - but you never know. At any rate, I would not bet much on it.
The action that the NBA has taken this off-season to reduce b2b's and 4 in 5's is very wise and should reduce injuries, especially catastrophic ones, and they should be thanked by all fans - even though that will show up as something NOT happening.
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Just going on summer league, fluid is not how I would describe Ojeleye. Powerful, fast, quick, but lacking an element of fluidity which great players have.
A couple of the best ways to see his fluidity: 1) his gorgeous shot mechanics - loose, quick shoulders, supple wrists, and springy spine; and 2) his finesse finishing, with a soft touch and excellent ball control, even as he changes direction.
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Don't get me wrong, I would be quite happy if Semi ended up being the steal of the draft, I just don't have any expectation that it will happen.
Let's check back at the all-star break. If he gets a chance it'll be later in the season, I'd bet, especially if Morris misses games.
Morris might miss a few games at some point in the season, but not more than a handful I think.
He's certainly been reliable for playing most games in his last five seasons. That's a good predictor for next season - but you never know. At any rate, I would not bet much on it.
The action that the NBA has taken this off-season to reduce b2b's and 4 in 5's is very wise and should reduce injuries, especially catastrophic ones, and they should be thanked by all fans - even though that will show up as something NOT happening.
I assumed that the possibility of Morris being suspended was behind the comment about missed games, not injury. If he pleads guilty to some lesser charge, which seems likely, then he could very well be suspended for a few games, but not that many I would think.
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Danny will surprise us with a killer trade. :)
Not usually quoting myself, but I had a hunch here.