Way, WAY too much to give up. Irving is not that much better than Thomas.
Way, WAY too much to give up. Irving is not that much better than Thomas.
Way, WAY too much to give up. Irving is not that much better than Thomas.
I would do it in a heartbeat, but a report came out that Kyrie has 4 preferred destinations: New York, San Antonio, Miami, and Minnesota. Wouldn't surprise me if they try to get Melo to team him with LBJ.
https://mobile.twitter.com/ChrisBHaynes/status/888495312377073664 (https://mobile.twitter.com/ChrisBHaynes/status/888495312377073664)
Way, WAY too much to give up. Irving is not that much better than Thomas.
It's very arguable that Irving isn't any better than Thomas. In fact, I made that argument to a friend during lunch just yesterday. Irving gives so little effort on defense that he's as bad on that end as IT.
Way, WAY too much to give up. Irving is not that much better than Thomas.
ummm yes he is
IT is better than Kyrie. Some people are blind.
Way, WAY too much to give up. Irving is not that much better than Thomas.
ummm yes he is
Care to expand at all?
Folks misunderstood what I said: Irving is not THAT MUCH better than Thomas, where THAT MUCH = Crowder, Rozier, plus 2 lottery picks. However I agree he is better. Get it? Now let's have a real debate on the OP's trade.Way, WAY too much to give up. Irving is not that much better than Thomas.
Almost 4 years younger, more productive career overall in the 6 years, can score just as well, better defender, not 5'9 with a hip injury.
Signed for 2 years, gives us a better chance to win a title, gives an extra year with the young kids and not have to worry about paying Thomas 30 million.
Who would you start a team with, Irving or Thomas? It's pretty simple Irving.
Way, WAY too much to give up. Irving is not that much better than Thomas.
ummm yes he is
Care to expand at all?
- more efficient scorer
- possibly best ball handler/dribbler of this generation..maybe of all time
- NBA champion - knows what it takes to win a title at just 25.
- 5 inches taller. Better at getting in passing lanes and disrupting opposing offenses.
- better rebounder
- more proven clutch shooter
- better pulling up off dribble
you could argue that having IT4 at 7 million season is better than having Kyrie at 20 mill a season, but if you're arguing IT4 is a better player then you are delusional and don't really know basketball.
Way, WAY too much to give up. Irving is not that much better than Thomas.
ummm yes he is
Care to expand at all?
- more efficient scorer
- possibly best ball handler/dribbler of this generation..maybe of all time
- NBA champion - knows what it takes to win a title at just 25.
- 5 inches taller. Better at getting in passing lanes and disrupting opposing offenses.
- better rebounder
- more proven clutch shooter
- better pulling up off dribble
you could argue that having IT4 at 7 million season is better than having Kyrie at 20 mill a season, but if you're arguing IT4 is a better player then you are delusional and don't really know basketball.
2017 stats:
Kyrie Irving:
25.2 PPG
3.2 RPG
5.8 APG
.53 eFG%
Isaiah Thomas:
28.9 PPG
2.7 RPG
5.9 APG
.54 eFG%
Im not sure where did you get the Kyrie is a "much better scorer", nor a "much better rebounder" narrative when their number are quite close. Best ball-handler, sure. But is he really a winner? Couldn't take his team to the playoffs before Lebron arrived. IT, meanwhile took a bottom 5 team to the playoffs and the Celtics are slowly improving to a powerhouse team.
Robert Horry is a 7x champion and is just as clutch as Kyrie. I guess he's a better player than both of them.
Way, WAY too much to give up. Irving is not that much better than Thomas.
ummm yes he is
Care to expand at all?
- more efficient scorer
- possibly best ball handler/dribbler of this generation..maybe of all time
- NBA champion - knows what it takes to win a title at just 25.
- 5 inches taller. Better at getting in passing lanes and disrupting opposing offenses.
- better rebounder
- more proven clutch shooter
- better pulling up off dribble
you could argue that having IT4 at 7 million season is better than having Kyrie at 20 mill a season, but if you're arguing IT4 is a better player then you are delusional and don't really know basketball.
2017 stats:
Kyrie Irving:
25.2 PPG
3.2 RPG
5.8 APG
.53 eFG%
Isaiah Thomas:
28.9 PPG
2.7 RPG
5.9 APG
.54 eFG%
Im not sure where did you get the Kyrie is a "much better scorer", nor a "much better rebounder" narrative when their number are quite close. Best ball-handler, sure. But is he really a winner? Couldn't take his team to the playoffs before Lebron arrived. IT, meanwhile took a bottom 5 team to the playoffs and the Celtics are slowly improving to a powerhouse team.
Robert Horry is a 7x champion and is just as clutch as Kyrie. I guess he's a better player than both of them.
First of all Thomas's stats on scoring are of course going to be better. He was the only true scorer on the team, stats can lie. Irving had to share the ball with James and Love both guys that can drop 20 points easy daily.
When it was simply Irving of course he didn't take them to the playoffs, the rest of the team blew. Thomas got traded to a good overall team needed help.
Folks misunderstood what I said: Irving is not THAT MUCH better than Thomas, where THAT MUCH = Crowder, Rozier, plus 2 lottery picks. However I agree he is better. Get it? Now let's have a real debate on the OP's trade.Way, WAY too much to give up. Irving is not that much better than Thomas.
Almost 4 years younger, more productive career overall in the 6 years, can score just as well, better defender, not 5'9 with a hip injury.
Signed for 2 years, gives us a better chance to win a title, gives an extra year with the young kids and not have to worry about paying Thomas 30 million.
Who would you start a team with, Irving or Thomas? It's pretty simple Irving.
Way, WAY too much to give up. Irving is not that much better than Thomas.
ummm yes he is
Care to expand at all?
- more efficient scorer
- possibly best ball handler/dribbler of this generation..maybe of all time
- NBA champion - knows what it takes to win a title at just 25.
- 5 inches taller. Better at getting in passing lanes and disrupting opposing offenses.
- better rebounder
- more proven clutch shooter
- better pulling up off dribble
you could argue that having IT4 at 7 million season is better than having Kyrie at 20 mill a season, but if you're arguing IT4 is a better player then you are delusional and don't really know basketball.
Way, WAY too much to give up. Irving is not that much better than Thomas.
ummm yes he is
Care to expand at all?
- more efficient scorer
- possibly best ball handler/dribbler of this generation..maybe of all time
- NBA champion - knows what it takes to win a title at just 25.
- 5 inches taller. Better at getting in passing lanes and disrupting opposing offenses.
- better rebounder
- more proven clutch shooter
- better pulling up off dribble
you could argue that having IT4 at 7 million season is better than having Kyrie at 20 mill a season, but if you're arguing IT4 is a better player then you are delusional and don't really know basketball.
2017 stats:
Kyrie Irving:
25.2 PPG
3.2 RPG
5.8 APG
.53 eFG%
Isaiah Thomas:
28.9 PPG
2.7 RPG
5.9 APG
.54 eFG%
Im not sure where did you get the Kyrie is a "much better scorer", nor a "much better rebounder" narrative when their number are quite close. Best ball-handler, sure. But is he really a winner? Couldn't take his team to the playoffs before Lebron arrived. IT, meanwhile took a bottom 5 team to the playoffs and the Celtics are slowly improving to a powerhouse team.
Robert Horry is a 7x champion and is just as clutch as Kyrie. I guess he's a better player than both of them.
First of all Thomas's stats on scoring are of course going to be better. He was the only true scorer on the team, stats can lie. Irving had to share the ball with James and Love both guys that can drop 20 points easy daily.
When it was simply Irving of course he didn't take them to the playoffs, the rest of the team blew. Thomas got traded to a good overall team needed help.
Way, WAY too much to give up. Irving is not that much better than Thomas.
ummm yes he is
Care to expand at all?
- more efficient scorer
- possibly best ball handler/dribbler of this generation..maybe of all time
- NBA champion - knows what it takes to win a title at just 25.
- 5 inches taller. Better at getting in passing lanes and disrupting opposing offenses.
- better rebounder
- more proven clutch shooter
- better pulling up off dribble
you could argue that having IT4 at 7 million season is better than having Kyrie at 20 mill a season, but if you're arguing IT4 is a better player then you are delusional and don't really know basketball.
2017 stats:
Kyrie Irving:
25.2 PPG
3.2 RPG
5.8 APG
.53 eFG%
Isaiah Thomas:
28.9 PPG
2.7 RPG
5.9 APG
.54 eFG%
Im not sure where did you get the Kyrie is a "much better scorer", nor a "much better rebounder" narrative when their number are quite close. Best ball-handler, sure. But is he really a winner? Couldn't take his team to the playoffs before Lebron arrived. IT, meanwhile took a bottom 5 team to the playoffs and the Celtics are slowly improving to a powerhouse team.
Robert Horry is a 7x champion and is just as clutch as Kyrie. I guess he's a better player than both of them.
First of all Thomas's stats on scoring are of course going to be better. He was the only true scorer on the team, stats can lie. Irving had to share the ball with James and Love both guys that can drop 20 points easy daily.
When it was simply Irving of course he didn't take them to the playoffs, the rest of the team blew. Thomas got traded to a good overall team needed help.
I don't agree that Isaiah was traded to a good team in Boston at all. He was traded to a fairly average team and lit a fire under them with his scoring.
Way, WAY too much to give up. Irving is not that much better than Thomas.
ummm yes he is
Care to expand at all?
- more efficient scorer
- possibly best ball handler/dribbler of this generation..maybe of all time
- NBA champion - knows what it takes to win a title at just 25.
- 5 inches taller. Better at getting in passing lanes and disrupting opposing offenses.
- better rebounder
- more proven clutch shooter
- better pulling up off dribble
you could argue that having IT4 at 7 million season is better than having Kyrie at 20 mill a season, but if you're arguing IT4 is a better player then you are delusional and don't really know basketball.
2017 stats:
Kyrie Irving:
25.2 PPG
3.2 RPG
5.8 APG
.53 eFG%
Isaiah Thomas:
28.9 PPG
2.7 RPG
5.9 APG
.54 eFG%
Im not sure where did you get the Kyrie is a "much better scorer", nor a "much better rebounder" narrative when their number are quite close. Best ball-handler, sure. But is he really a winner? Couldn't take his team to the playoffs before Lebron arrived. IT, meanwhile took a bottom 5 team to the playoffs and the Celtics are slowly improving to a powerhouse team.
Robert Horry is a 7x champion and is just as clutch as Kyrie. I guess he's a better player than both of them.
First of all Thomas's stats on scoring are of course going to be better. He was the only true scorer on the team, stats can lie. Irving had to share the ball with James and Love both guys that can drop 20 points easy daily.
When it was simply Irving of course he didn't take them to the playoffs, the rest of the team blew. Thomas got traded to a good overall team needed help.
Thomas scores more efficiently than Irving, and at a higher volume. The defense keys in on IT, and he is still more efficient. Irving has LeBron on the court, and is less efficient. Thomas was unquestionably the better scorer last year, both in volume and efficiency, and virtually every metric, traditional and advanced, confirms that.
Maybe Irving should be the better player, given his size advantage and legitimately terrific handle that embarrasses people, but for whatever reason, he's hasn't been. Personally I think the most overlooked fact is that IT gets to the free throw line twice as offen per shot attempt, which helps boost his efficiency tremendously. His ability to draw contact in the lane, and now from 3-point range as well, is something that Kyrie doesn't have, and while it doesn't always make the highlight reals, it's truly valuable.
And Kyrie should be a better defender, but he's not. He's arguably as much of a liability as IT, and that's due to effort, not physical limitations. It's past time for him to know how to play at both ends of the court.
Way, WAY too much to give up. Irving is not that much better than Thomas.
ummm yes he is
Care to expand at all?
- more efficient scorer
- possibly best ball handler/dribbler of this generation..maybe of all time
- NBA champion - knows what it takes to win a title at just 25.
- 5 inches taller. Better at getting in passing lanes and disrupting opposing offenses.
- better rebounder
- more proven clutch shooter
- better pulling up off dribble
you could argue that having IT4 at 7 million season is better than having Kyrie at 20 mill a season, but if you're arguing IT4 is a better player then you are delusional and don't really know basketball.
2017 stats:
Kyrie Irving:
25.2 PPG
3.2 RPG
5.8 APG
.53 eFG%
Isaiah Thomas:
28.9 PPG
2.7 RPG
5.9 APG
.54 eFG%
Im not sure where did you get the Kyrie is a "much better scorer", nor a "much better rebounder" narrative when their number are quite close. Best ball-handler, sure. But is he really a winner? Couldn't take his team to the playoffs before Lebron arrived. IT, meanwhile took a bottom 5 team to the playoffs and the Celtics are slowly improving to a powerhouse team.
Robert Horry is a 7x champion and is just as clutch as Kyrie. I guess he's a better player than both of them.
First of all Thomas's stats on scoring are of course going to be better. He was the only true scorer on the team, stats can lie. Irving had to share the ball with James and Love both guys that can drop 20 points easy daily.
When it was simply Irving of course he didn't take them to the playoffs, the rest of the team blew. Thomas got traded to a good overall team needed help.
Thomas scores more efficiently than Irving, and at a higher volume. The defense keys in on IT, and he is still more efficient. Irving has LeBron on the court, and is less efficient. Thomas was unquestionably the better scorer last year, both in volume and efficiency, and virtually every metric, traditional and advanced, confirms that.
Maybe Irving should be the better player, given his size advantage and legitimately terrific handle that embarrasses people, but for whatever reason, he's hasn't been. Personally I think the most overlooked fact is that IT gets to the free throw line twice as offen per shot attempt, which helps boost his efficiency tremendously. His ability to draw contact in the lane, and now from 3-point range as well, is something that Kyrie doesn't have, and while it doesn't always make the highlight reals, it's truly valuable.
And Kyrie should be a better defender, but he's not. He's arguably as much of a liability as IT, and that's due to effort, not physical limitations. It's past time for him to know how to play at both ends of the court.
Way, WAY too much to give up. Irving is not that much better than Thomas.
ummm yes he is
Care to expand at all?
- more efficient scorer
- possibly best ball handler/dribbler of this generation..maybe of all time
- NBA champion - knows what it takes to win a title at just 25.
- 5 inches taller. Better at getting in passing lanes and disrupting opposing offenses.
- better rebounder
- more proven clutch shooter
- better pulling up off dribble
you could argue that having IT4 at 7 million season is better than having Kyrie at 20 mill a season, but if you're arguing IT4 is a better player then you are delusional and don't really know basketball.
Red = demonstrably and inarguably false
Blue = iffy, at best
Unlike you, I actually have evidence to back up my claims.
http://bkref.com/tiny/fvlZt
http://on.nba.com/2kxUgwM
Way, WAY too much to give up. Irving is not that much better than Thomas.
ummm yes he is
Care to expand at all?
- more efficient scorer
- possibly best ball handler/dribbler of this generation..maybe of all time
- NBA champion - knows what it takes to win a title at just 25.
- 5 inches taller. Better at getting in passing lanes and disrupting opposing offenses.
- better rebounder
- more proven clutch shooter
- better pulling up off dribble
you could argue that having IT4 at 7 million season is better than having Kyrie at 20 mill a season, but if you're arguing IT4 is a better player then you are delusional and don't really know basketball.
2017 stats:
Kyrie Irving:
25.2 PPG
3.2 RPG
5.8 APG
.53 eFG%
Isaiah Thomas:
28.9 PPG
2.7 RPG
5.9 APG
.54 eFG%
Im not sure where did you get the Kyrie is a "much better scorer", nor a "much better rebounder" narrative when their number are quite close. Best ball-handler, sure. But is he really a winner? Couldn't take his team to the playoffs before Lebron arrived. IT, meanwhile took a bottom 5 team to the playoffs and the Celtics are slowly improving to a powerhouse team.
Robert Horry is a 7x champion and is just as clutch as Kyrie. I guess he's a better player than both of them.
First of all Thomas's stats on scoring are of course going to be better. He was the only true scorer on the team, stats can lie. Irving had to share the ball with James and Love both guys that can drop 20 points easy daily.
When it was simply Irving of course he didn't take them to the playoffs, the rest of the team blew. Thomas got traded to a good overall team needed help.
Thomas scores more efficiently than Irving, and at a higher volume. The defense keys in on IT, and he is still more efficient. Irving has LeBron on the court, and is less efficient. Thomas was unquestionably the better scorer last year, both in volume and efficiency, and virtually every metric, traditional and advanced, confirms that.
Maybe Irving should be the better player, given his size advantage and legitimately terrific handle that embarrasses people, but for whatever reason, he's hasn't been. Personally I think the most overlooked fact is that IT gets to the free throw line twice as offen per shot attempt, which helps boost his efficiency tremendously. His ability to draw contact in the lane, and now from 3-point range as well, is something that Kyrie doesn't have, and while it doesn't always make the highlight reals, it's truly valuable.
And Kyrie should be a better defender, but he's not. He's arguably as much of a liability as IT, and that's due to effort, not physical limitations. It's past time for him to know how to play at both ends of the court.
If you're going to build a team right now, which point guard do you take? Irving is the better choice I feel, younger, more control in contact, say a push on skill levels cause stats can be skewed for both players. Plus do you want to give Thomas a max deal at 30, we already have one over pay in Horford after the age of 31
Way, WAY too much to give up. Irving is not that much better than Thomas.
ummm yes he is
Care to expand at all?
- more efficient scorer
- possibly best ball handler/dribbler of this generation..maybe of all time
- NBA champion - knows what it takes to win a title at just 25.
- 5 inches taller. Better at getting in passing lanes and disrupting opposing offenses.
- better rebounder
- more proven clutch shooter
- better pulling up off dribble
you could argue that having IT4 at 7 million season is better than having Kyrie at 20 mill a season, but if you're arguing IT4 is a better player then you are delusional and don't really know basketball.
2017 stats:
Kyrie Irving:
25.2 PPG
3.2 RPG
5.8 APG
.53 eFG%
Isaiah Thomas:
28.9 PPG
2.7 RPG
5.9 APG
.54 eFG%
Im not sure where did you get the Kyrie is a "much better scorer", nor a "much better rebounder" narrative when their number are quite close. Best ball-handler, sure. But is he really a winner? Couldn't take his team to the playoffs before Lebron arrived. IT, meanwhile took a bottom 5 team to the playoffs and the Celtics are slowly improving to a powerhouse team.
Robert Horry is a 7x champion and is just as clutch as Kyrie. I guess he's a better player than both of them.
First of all Thomas's stats on scoring are of course going to be better. He was the only true scorer on the team, stats can lie. Irving had to share the ball with James and Love both guys that can drop 20 points easy daily.
When it was simply Irving of course he didn't take them to the playoffs, the rest of the team blew. Thomas got traded to a good overall team needed help.
Thomas scores more efficiently than Irving, and at a higher volume. The defense keys in on IT, and he is still more efficient. Irving has LeBron on the court, and is less efficient. Thomas was unquestionably the better scorer last year, both in volume and efficiency, and virtually every metric, traditional and advanced, confirms that.
Maybe Irving should be the better player, given his size advantage and legitimately terrific handle that embarrasses people, but for whatever reason, he's hasn't been. Personally I think the most overlooked fact is that IT gets to the free throw line twice as offen per shot attempt, which helps boost his efficiency tremendously. His ability to draw contact in the lane, and now from 3-point range as well, is something that Kyrie doesn't have, and while it doesn't always make the highlight reals, it's truly valuable.
And Kyrie should be a better defender, but he's not. He's arguably as much of a liability as IT, and that's due to effort, not physical limitations. It's past time for him to know how to play at both ends of the court.
Notice how nobody arguing Kyrie is significantly better (or even better at all) has cited any numbers to support the position. I wonder why?
Thomas was better than Irving last year but Irving has more value in a trade and given I don't think Boston is currently a true contender I would make the trade as Irving fits the Hayward, Brown, Tatum timeline better and probably means Boston can keep Smart (assuming he isn't a part of the trade for salary).
Way, WAY too much to give up. Irving is not that much better than Thomas.
ummm yes he is
Care to expand at all?
- more efficient scorer
- possibly best ball handler/dribbler of this generation..maybe of all time
- NBA champion - knows what it takes to win a title at just 25.
- 5 inches taller. Better at getting in passing lanes and disrupting opposing offenses.
- better rebounder
- more proven clutch shooter
- better pulling up off dribble
you could argue that having IT4 at 7 million season is better than having Kyrie at 20 mill a season, but if you're arguing IT4 is a better player then you are delusional and don't really know basketball.
2017 stats:
Kyrie Irving:
25.2 PPG
3.2 RPG
5.8 APG
.53 eFG%
Isaiah Thomas:
28.9 PPG
2.7 RPG
5.9 APG
.54 eFG%
Im not sure where did you get the Kyrie is a "much better scorer", nor a "much better rebounder" narrative when their number are quite close. Best ball-handler, sure. But is he really a winner? Couldn't take his team to the playoffs before Lebron arrived. IT, meanwhile took a bottom 5 team to the playoffs and the Celtics are slowly improving to a powerhouse team.
Robert Horry is a 7x champion and is just as clutch as Kyrie. I guess he's a better player than both of them.
First of all Thomas's stats on scoring are of course going to be better. He was the only true scorer on the team, stats can lie. Irving had to share the ball with James and Love both guys that can drop 20 points easy daily.
When it was simply Irving of course he didn't take them to the playoffs, the rest of the team blew. Thomas got traded to a good overall team needed help.
Thomas scores more efficiently than Irving, and at a higher volume. The defense keys in on IT, and he is still more efficient. Irving has LeBron on the court, and is less efficient. Thomas was unquestionably the better scorer last year, both in volume and efficiency, and virtually every metric, traditional and advanced, confirms that.
Maybe Irving should be the better player, given his size advantage and legitimately terrific handle that embarrasses people, but for whatever reason, he's hasn't been. Personally I think the most overlooked fact is that IT gets to the free throw line twice as offen per shot attempt, which helps boost his efficiency tremendously. His ability to draw contact in the lane, and now from 3-point range as well, is something that Kyrie doesn't have, and while it doesn't always make the highlight reals, it's truly valuable.
And Kyrie should be a better defender, but he's not. He's arguably as much of a liability as IT, and that's due to effort, not physical limitations. It's past time for him to know how to play at both ends of the court.
Notice how nobody arguing Kyrie is significantly better (or even better at all) has cited any numbers to support the position. I wonder why?
I'll give you all the stats you want. Here you go.
Overall regular season stats over a career, Irving takes points, assist, rebounding, steals, blocks.
Total stats Irving has more rebounds, steals, and blocks. While Thomas has more points, games played and assist. Irving had better FG% and 3FG%, Thomas a better FT%.
They also list the playoff stats as while.
http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/kyrie_irving_vs_isaiah_thomas.htm
Way, WAY too much to give up. Irving is not that much better than Thomas.
ummm yes he is
Care to expand at all?
- more efficient scorer
- possibly best ball handler/dribbler of this generation..maybe of all time
- NBA champion - knows what it takes to win a title at just 25.
- 5 inches taller. Better at getting in passing lanes and disrupting opposing offenses.
- better rebounder
- more proven clutch shooter
- better pulling up off dribble
you could argue that having IT4 at 7 million season is better than having Kyrie at 20 mill a season, but if you're arguing IT4 is a better player then you are delusional and don't really know basketball.
2017 stats:
Kyrie Irving:
25.2 PPG
3.2 RPG
5.8 APG
.53 eFG%
Isaiah Thomas:
28.9 PPG
2.7 RPG
5.9 APG
.54 eFG%
Im not sure where did you get the Kyrie is a "much better scorer", nor a "much better rebounder" narrative when their number are quite close. Best ball-handler, sure. But is he really a winner? Couldn't take his team to the playoffs before Lebron arrived. IT, meanwhile took a bottom 5 team to the playoffs and the Celtics are slowly improving to a powerhouse team.
Robert Horry is a 7x champion and is just as clutch as Kyrie. I guess he's a better player than both of them.
First of all Thomas's stats on scoring are of course going to be better. He was the only true scorer on the team, stats can lie. Irving had to share the ball with James and Love both guys that can drop 20 points easy daily.
When it was simply Irving of course he didn't take them to the playoffs, the rest of the team blew. Thomas got traded to a good overall team needed help.
Thomas scores more efficiently than Irving, and at a higher volume. The defense keys in on IT, and he is still more efficient. Irving has LeBron on the court, and is less efficient. Thomas was unquestionably the better scorer last year, both in volume and efficiency, and virtually every metric, traditional and advanced, confirms that.
Maybe Irving should be the better player, given his size advantage and legitimately terrific handle that embarrasses people, but for whatever reason, he's hasn't been. Personally I think the most overlooked fact is that IT gets to the free throw line twice as offen per shot attempt, which helps boost his efficiency tremendously. His ability to draw contact in the lane, and now from 3-point range as well, is something that Kyrie doesn't have, and while it doesn't always make the highlight reals, it's truly valuable.
And Kyrie should be a better defender, but he's not. He's arguably as much of a liability as IT, and that's due to effort, not physical limitations. It's past time for him to know how to play at both ends of the court.
Notice how nobody arguing Kyrie is significantly better (or even better at all) has cited any numbers to support the position. I wonder why?
I'll give you all the stats you want. Here you go.
Overall regular season stats over a career, Irving takes points, assist, rebounding, steals, blocks.
Total stats Irving has more rebounds, steals, and blocks. While Thomas has more points, games played and assist. Irving had better FG% and 3FG%, Thomas a better FT%.
They also list the playoff stats as while.
http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/kyrie_irving_vs_isaiah_thomas.htm
Sure, let's totally ignore context.
Way, WAY too much to give up. Irving is not that much better than Thomas.
ummm yes he is
Care to expand at all?
- more efficient scorer
- possibly best ball handler/dribbler of this generation..maybe of all time
- NBA champion - knows what it takes to win a title at just 25.
- 5 inches taller. Better at getting in passing lanes and disrupting opposing offenses.
- better rebounder
- more proven clutch shooter
- better pulling up off dribble
you could argue that having IT4 at 7 million season is better than having Kyrie at 20 mill a season, but if you're arguing IT4 is a better player then you are delusional and don't really know basketball.
2017 stats:
Kyrie Irving:
25.2 PPG
3.2 RPG
5.8 APG
.53 eFG%
Isaiah Thomas:
28.9 PPG
2.7 RPG
5.9 APG
.54 eFG%
Im not sure where did you get the Kyrie is a "much better scorer", nor a "much better rebounder" narrative when their number are quite close. Best ball-handler, sure. But is he really a winner? Couldn't take his team to the playoffs before Lebron arrived. IT, meanwhile took a bottom 5 team to the playoffs and the Celtics are slowly improving to a powerhouse team.
Robert Horry is a 7x champion and is just as clutch as Kyrie. I guess he's a better player than both of them.
First of all Thomas's stats on scoring are of course going to be better. He was the only true scorer on the team, stats can lie. Irving had to share the ball with James and Love both guys that can drop 20 points easy daily.
When it was simply Irving of course he didn't take them to the playoffs, the rest of the team blew. Thomas got traded to a good overall team needed help.
Thomas scores more efficiently than Irving, and at a higher volume. The defense keys in on IT, and he is still more efficient. Irving has LeBron on the court, and is less efficient. Thomas was unquestionably the better scorer last year, both in volume and efficiency, and virtually every metric, traditional and advanced, confirms that.
Maybe Irving should be the better player, given his size advantage and legitimately terrific handle that embarrasses people, but for whatever reason, he's hasn't been. Personally I think the most overlooked fact is that IT gets to the free throw line twice as offen per shot attempt, which helps boost his efficiency tremendously. His ability to draw contact in the lane, and now from 3-point range as well, is something that Kyrie doesn't have, and while it doesn't always make the highlight reals, it's truly valuable.
And Kyrie should be a better defender, but he's not. He's arguably as much of a liability as IT, and that's due to effort, not physical limitations. It's past time for him to know how to play at both ends of the court.
Notice how nobody arguing Kyrie is significantly better (or even better at all) has cited any numbers to support the position. I wonder why?
I'll give you all the stats you want. Here you go.
Overall regular season stats over a career, Irving takes points, assist, rebounding, steals, blocks.
Total stats Irving has more rebounds, steals, and blocks. While Thomas has more points, games played and assist. Irving had better FG% and 3FG%, Thomas a better FT%.
They also list the playoff stats as while.
http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/kyrie_irving_vs_isaiah_thomas.htm
Sure, let's totally ignore context.
How am I ignoring the context? You asked for numbers and I found a side by side comparison on numbers.
Way, WAY too much to give up. Irving is not that much better than Thomas.
ummm yes he is
Care to expand at all?
- more efficient scorer
- possibly best ball handler/dribbler of this generation..maybe of all time
- NBA champion - knows what it takes to win a title at just 25.
- 5 inches taller. Better at getting in passing lanes and disrupting opposing offenses.
- better rebounder
- more proven clutch shooter
- better pulling up off dribble
you could argue that having IT4 at 7 million season is better than having Kyrie at 20 mill a season, but if you're arguing IT4 is a better player then you are delusional and don't really know basketball.
2017 stats:
Kyrie Irving:
25.2 PPG
3.2 RPG
5.8 APG
.53 eFG%
Isaiah Thomas:
28.9 PPG
2.7 RPG
5.9 APG
.54 eFG%
Im not sure where did you get the Kyrie is a "much better scorer", nor a "much better rebounder" narrative when their number are quite close. Best ball-handler, sure. But is he really a winner? Couldn't take his team to the playoffs before Lebron arrived. IT, meanwhile took a bottom 5 team to the playoffs and the Celtics are slowly improving to a powerhouse team.
Robert Horry is a 7x champion and is just as clutch as Kyrie. I guess he's a better player than both of them.
First of all Thomas's stats on scoring are of course going to be better. He was the only true scorer on the team, stats can lie. Irving had to share the ball with James and Love both guys that can drop 20 points easy daily.
When it was simply Irving of course he didn't take them to the playoffs, the rest of the team blew. Thomas got traded to a good overall team needed help.
Way, WAY too much to give up. Irving is not that much better than Thomas.
ummm yes he is
Care to expand at all?
- more efficient scorer
- possibly best ball handler/dribbler of this generation..maybe of all time
- NBA champion - knows what it takes to win a title at just 25.
- 5 inches taller. Better at getting in passing lanes and disrupting opposing offenses.
- better rebounder
- more proven clutch shooter
- better pulling up off dribble
you could argue that having IT4 at 7 million season is better than having Kyrie at 20 mill a season, but if you're arguing IT4 is a better player then you are delusional and don't really know basketball.
2017 stats:
Kyrie Irving:
25.2 PPG
3.2 RPG
5.8 APG
.53 eFG%
Isaiah Thomas:
28.9 PPG
2.7 RPG
5.9 APG
.54 eFG%
Im not sure where did you get the Kyrie is a "much better scorer", nor a "much better rebounder" narrative when their number are quite close. Best ball-handler, sure. But is he really a winner? Couldn't take his team to the playoffs before Lebron arrived. IT, meanwhile took a bottom 5 team to the playoffs and the Celtics are slowly improving to a powerhouse team.
Robert Horry is a 7x champion and is just as clutch as Kyrie. I guess he's a better player than both of them.
First of all Thomas's stats on scoring are of course going to be better. He was the only true scorer on the team, stats can lie. Irving had to share the ball with James and Love both guys that can drop 20 points easy daily.
When it was simply Irving of course he didn't take them to the playoffs, the rest of the team blew. Thomas got traded to a good overall team needed help.
That's not the main point. Irving is only a second option, but his eFG% is still lesser than Thomas who were carrying the whole offense of the team. Kyrie's highest scoring season is last year, where he is the second option. Before Lebron came, he's the primary option of the team, only averaging 18.5, 22.5 and 20.8 PPG respectively. So being "second option" with Lebron is invalid since Kyrie is the Cav's primary option on crunch time while Lebron is giving him open looks.
IT, on the other hand had to create for himself and his team mates because all the defensive attention goes to him.
Why keep IT:
- Leadership
- Better & more efficient scorer on a higher usage.
- Proven #1 option on an ECF team. (Irving was a tank commander before Lebron, still struggles to carry the team when Lebron rests)
- Slightly better assist numbers, better passer (imo)
- Gets to the line much more
Why Irving:
- Younger, potential to surpass IT
- Better contract situation
- Better 3 point shooter
- Higher ceiling on defense (if he ever puts his mind to it...)
Way, WAY too much to give up. Irving is not that much better than Thomas.
ummm yes he is
Care to expand at all?
- more efficient scorer
- possibly best ball handler/dribbler of this generation..maybe of all time
- NBA champion - knows what it takes to win a title at just 25.
- 5 inches taller. Better at getting in passing lanes and disrupting opposing offenses.
- better rebounder
- more proven clutch shooter
- better pulling up off dribble
you could argue that having IT4 at 7 million season is better than having Kyrie at 20 mill a season, but if you're arguing IT4 is a better player then you are delusional and don't really know basketball.
24 years old, and under contract beyond this season is a great reason to want him IMO. Claiming he's a better player would be hard to back up, though I wouldn't be shocked to see Irving surpass IT in the near future.Why keep IT:
- Leadership
- Better & more efficient scorer on a higher usage.
- Proven #1 option on an ECF team. (Irving was a tank commander before Lebron, still struggles to carry the team when Lebron rests)
- Slightly better assist numbers, better passer (imo)
- Gets to the line much more
Why Irving:
- Younger, potential to surpass IT
- Better contract situation
- Better 3 point shooter
- Higher ceiling on defense (if he ever puts his mind to it...)
Much as I will vouch for IT, there are legitimate arguments for Irving. Arguing that Irving is currently a better player is, in my opinion, not a great argument. Arguing that Irving is a better scorer is, factually, not a great argument. Your list contains a bunch of good arguments.
24 years old, and under contract beyond this season is a great reason to want him IMO. Claiming he's a better player would be hard to back up, though I wouldn't be shocked to see Irving surpass IT in the near future.Why keep IT:
- Leadership
- Better & more efficient scorer on a higher usage.
- Proven #1 option on an ECF team. (Irving was a tank commander before Lebron, still struggles to carry the team when Lebron rests)
- Slightly better assist numbers, better passer (imo)
- Gets to the line much more
Why Irving:
- Younger, potential to surpass IT
- Better contract situation
- Better 3 point shooter
- Higher ceiling on defense (if he ever puts his mind to it...)
Much as I will vouch for IT, there are legitimate arguments for Irving. Arguing that Irving is currently a better player is, in my opinion, not a great argument. Arguing that Irving is a better scorer is, factually, not a great argument. Your list contains a bunch of good arguments.
With all the talk of salaries, stats and all the rest there's only one factor that I would take in to considering when making this decision - probability of winning a title.
Are we more likely to win a championship with Kyrie on the roster or IT?
A lot of people out there strongly question whether a team can win a championship led by a 5'9" shoot-first PG who is as great a defensive liability as Thomas is. As much as I love IT I have to admit, that's a legit question. Especially when the team that's waiting for you is this stacked Golden State team (who likely will be the team waiting for the next 2-4 years).
I think you have to ask the question - does Kyrie match up better with Steph Curry then Isaiah does? If I take off my green glasses and look at the situation objectively, then I think my answer has to be yes.
Kyrie is better than IT. I love IT but take off the Celtics footie pajamas.
Does anyone really think that a guy who believes the earth is flat can work well with Brad Stevens?The earths flat comment was something of a political statement.
He's an incredible talent, but he's not a leader, and he's more than a little crazy. This is a BAD idea.
Does anyone really think that a guy who believes the earth is flat can work well with Brad Stevens?I stopped highlighting right there, on purpose. This occurred to me today too, so perhaps understandable that he would pull a stunt like this. Stay away, far away...
He's an incredible talent, but he's not a leader, and he's more than a little crazy. This is a BAD idea.
can't see the celtics getting irving without throwing in jaylen or other major asset. This is the trade i was working onWhat the holy hell....
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y893nex6
could see cavs then sending love to the suns for something like bledsoe and bender.
can't see the celtics getting irving without throwing in jaylen or other major asset. This is the trade i was working onWhat the holy hell....
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y893nex6
could see cavs then sending love to the suns for something like bledsoe and bender.
Give up IT, Smart AND Jaylen for JUST Kyrie?? Please tell me you're joking.
can't see the celtics getting irving without throwing in jaylen or other major asset. This is the trade i was working onWhat the holy hell....
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y893nex6
could see cavs then sending love to the suns for something like bledsoe and bender.
Give up IT, Smart AND Jaylen for JUST Kyrie?? Please tell me you're joking.
our players get no respect on this blog..... none.
IT is better than Kyrie. Some people are blind.