CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: colincb on July 15, 2017, 02:38:03 PM
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http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics/celtics_insider/2017/07/celtic_changes_lead_to_parting_with_trainer_lacerte
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I wonder if that was a condition to the Hayward signing? I recall his trainer following the C's, are they going to start hiring people Hayward is familiar with?
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Wow insane. He was with the Celtics since the Larry bird days
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C's need a new staff...one that can get them on the LeBron juice....this natural training has not been good enough. 8)
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With the new training center they are building, I think they are orienting themselves more with modern sport science methods.
Maybe Doo and Lacerte were more old school and the C's decided to just go in a different direction.
Some info on the new facility:
http://www.nba.com/celtics/news/sidebar/misc-051016-celtics-to-build-world-class-practice-facility/
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I think its past due. I haven't been happy with our training and conditioning staff since the KG era. It is way past time to update their medical and training practices.
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I think its past due. I haven't been happy with our training and conditioning staff since the KG era. It is way past time to update their medical and training practices.
This.
By all accounts they were well liked in the locker room, but I'm not entirely their methods were the best.
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I think its past due. I haven't been happy with our training and conditioning staff since the KG era. It is way past time to update their medical and training practices.
This.
By all accounts they were well liked in the locker room, but I'm not entirely their methods were the best.
I hate to agree with you guys but you're probably correct. I wonder if the Celtics can hire the docs and training staff from the Suns.
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Good riddance.
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Good riddance.
Why? I would love to hear your rationale on disliking Ed Lacerte.
I think Doo is going to stay and might take over. I'm pretty sure he's well liked.
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Good riddance.
Why? I would love to hear your rationale on disliking Ed Lacerte.
I think Doo is going to stay and might take over. I'm pretty sure he's well liked.
Doo stepped down the other day. They are going in a different direction with the medical/training staff.
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Good riddance.
Why? I would love to hear your rationale on disliking Ed Lacerte.
I think Doo is going to stay and might take over. I'm pretty sure he's well liked.
Doo stepped down the other day. They are going in a different direction with the medical/training staff.
Interesting- I thought he'd be involved going forward. I know that he is involved with NB, and thought there would be an integration with the new Celtics facility.
I wonder if this different direction will be associated with GE and their sports analytics package that the Celtics are interested in.
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I'm curious, are these decisions on the trainers and medical staff personnel decisions that Ainge makes, or ownership?
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Good riddance.
Why? I would love to hear your rationale on disliking Ed Lacerte.
I think Doo is going to stay and might take over. I'm pretty sure he's well liked.
I don't think his team have handled injuries right. IT's could possible been prevented when it first occurred in MArch. As long as the bone isn't misshapen, it's just a matter of rest. He should have been shut down for a few weeks, yes it would have cost us first place, but he'd be working out right now.
There are new ways of doing things. Pitchers are starting to use more heat than ice on shoulders. Blood heals muscles. Cold prevents blood flow, heat increases it. So we need more people who are up to date in the latest training techniques.
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Good riddance.
Why? I would love to hear your rationale on disliking Ed Lacerte.
I think Doo is going to stay and might take over. I'm pretty sure he's well liked.
I don't think his team have handled injuries right. IT's could possible been prevented when it first occurred in MArch. As long as the bone isn't misshapen, it's just a matter of rest. He should have been shut down for a few weeks, yes it would have cost us first place, but he'd be working out right now.
There are new ways of doing things. Pitchers are starting to use more heat than ice on shoulders. Blood heals muscles. Cold prevents blood flow, heat increases it. So we need more people who are up to date in the latest training techniques.
I think you're assuming that Lacerte/Doo are not on the cutting edge. I don't think that's fair. I'm not related to these guys, or even know them.
I do know that Lacerte was well respected around the league. Your assumption that he's out of touch might be that he's older now, which isn't a valid reason. There are plenty of older people that stay savvy with modern medical advancements.
Doo is younger and has his own practice. There's nothing there that tells me that he's not up-to-date with medical research/advancement.
My guess is that ownership/management got excited by something else and wanted to try it. This is different than saying the other guys weren't good enough.
I actually thought they handled the Celtics well during their championship run and the years after. It was known around the league that the Celtics were resting for the playoffs, similar to how the Cavs are (intelligently) treating Lebron.
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Good riddance.
Why? I would love to hear your rationale on disliking Ed Lacerte.
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What is your issue with Ed, Roy? He has been a good soldier for many, many years and is well-known around the league. I think he worked for USA basketball too, which is fairly prestigious. I have a colleague from a previous company who knows him well. Good guy. I have not heard one bad thing.
I am pretty surprised about all the negative and unfounded stuff being thrown around on this thread. Please backup your statements, people!
EDIT: TP to green_bballers13.
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Good riddance.
Why? I would love to hear your rationale on disliking Ed Lacerte.
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What is your issue with Ed, Roy? He has been a good soldier for many, many years and is well-known around the league. I think he worked for USA basketball too, which is fairly prestigious. I have a colleague from a previous company who knows him well. Good guy. I have not heard one bad thing.
I am pretty surprised about all the negative and unfounded stuff being thrown around on this thread. Please backup your statements, people!
EDIT: TP to green_bballers13.
gonna assume the kg knee problems
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Good riddance.
Why? I would love to hear your rationale on disliking Ed Lacerte.
I think Doo is going to stay and might take over. I'm pretty sure he's well liked.
I don't think his team have handled injuries right. IT's could possible been prevented when it first occurred in MArch. As long as the bone isn't misshapen, it's just a matter of rest. He should have been shut down for a few weeks, yes it would have cost us first place, but he'd be working out right now.
There are new ways of doing things. Pitchers are starting to use more heat than ice on shoulders. Blood heals muscles. Cold prevents blood flow, heat increases it. So we need more people who are up to date in the latest training techniques.
1) IT wouldn't want this.
2) Stevens wouldn't want this.
3) Ainge wouldn't want this.
4) The training staff problem had an opinion. Whether Doogie Howser or Donald Duck was on the medical staff, I'm not certain that their opinion was the most important. If they thought that IT was injured enough that his career was in jeopardy, I'm sure he would have rested more.
One could make the argument that the Celtics needed to do better than Utah in the playoffs to get Hayward to come to Boston.
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Anyone hoping we steal some of the medical staff from the spurs and sun? Tim duncan and Steve Nash played for 1000 years. Or maybe get some doctors from tufts and Harvard
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Good riddance.
Why? I would love to hear your rationale on disliking Ed Lacerte.
I think Doo is going to stay and might take over. I'm pretty sure he's well liked.
He mishandled injuries to Big Al, KG, and Wally, among others.
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Those 2 leaving is a huge deal. Whatever direction we go in now all that matters is that we get the best people.
BTW I actually used to go to Waltham Healthpoint and see Dr. Mckean and Hester and met Lacerte and Doo. I went all the time bc of a health issue that both Mckean and Hester were interested in bc a former Celtic actually had a similar problem.
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Good riddance.
Why? I would love to hear your rationale on disliking Ed Lacerte.
I think Doo is going to stay and might take over. I'm pretty sure he's well liked.
He mishandled injuries to Big Al, KG, and Wally, among others.
Then why wasn't he let go at the time? I think there's something else going on here.
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Good riddance.
Why? I would love to hear your rationale on disliking Ed Lacerte.
I think Doo is going to stay and might take over. I'm pretty sure he's well liked.
He mishandled injuries to Big Al, KG, and Wally, among others.
I'm not trying to be a jerk here (I swear).... Usually not a good start to a sentence ha
but...
Can you articulate how he mishandled these injuries? Are you referring to hearsay, or can you tell me more about each injury and the appropriate treatment plan?
You are one of the more educated posters on this forum, so you might have more info than I have. I haven't seen any of those MRI's, and never used a goniometer to measure any of those players' range of motion post injury. I also was not in the room for any of the surgeries. I'm actually not sure about anything other than what was reported in the media.
Injury set-backs happen in every sport. Look at Gronk.
How do you have more information than I do about the proper treatment plan for Big Al, KG, and Wally? How do you know how Lacerte and his team deviated from protocol?
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Good riddance.
Why? I would love to hear your rationale on disliking Ed Lacerte.
I think Doo is going to stay and might take over. I'm pretty sure he's well liked.
He mishandled injuries to Big Al, KG, and Wally, among others.
I'm not trying to be a jerk here (I swear).... Usually not a good start to a sentence ha
but...
Can you articulate how he mishandled these injuries? Are you referring to hearsay, or can you tell me more about each injury and the appropriate treatment plan?
You are one of the more educated posters on this forum, so you might have more info than I have. I haven't seen any of those MRI's, and never used a goniometer to measure any of those players' range of motion post injury. I also was not in the room for any of the surgeries. I'm actually not sure about anything other than what was reported in the media.
Injury set-backs happen in every sport. Look at Gronk.
How do you have more information than I do about the proper treatment plan for Big Al, KG, and Wally? How do you know how Lacerte and his team deviated from protocol?
With Big Al, they misdiagnosed bone chips in his ankles, to the point where Big Al was being labeled a malingerer. Instead, once they listened to their patient and cleaned the ankle, the injury went away almost immediately.
With KG, they underestimated the extent of his bone spur.
With Wally, they continually brought him back too soon, leading to recurrent injury.
Obviously, the team thinks they can do better. I welcome it.
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Anyone here discrediting Lacerte is just taking a total 100% complete factless guess at this situation.
No one here can say Lacerte mishandled injuries, you have literally no idea what you are talking about. You are just guessing because your favorite player got hurt. It's laughable that anyone in this thread is taking such a stance against these individuals while having ZERO knowledge of the situation.
Unless some players and owners come out and say they thought themselves or their players were mishandled by Lacerte, then you will have a right to say 'good riddance' to a real person who put his entire career and the prime of his life into keeping the Celtics players healthy.
Show some respect and don't act so petty.
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I guess we've just got to hope they bring in better people. Bummer because both were well liked. Especially Laverne.
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Anyone here discrediting Lacerte is just taking a total 100% complete factless guess at this situation.
No one here can say Lacerte mishandled injuries, you have literally no idea what you are talking about. You are just guessing because your favorite player got hurt. It's laughable that anyone in this thread is taking such a stance against these individuals while having ZERO knowledge of the situation.
Unless some players and owners come out and say they thought themselves or their players were mishandled by Lacerte, then you will have a right to say 'good riddance' to a real person who put his entire career and the prime of his life into keeping the Celtics players healthy.
Show some respect and don't act so petty.
You can absolutely evaluate the medical staff of a team. I don't think it's ridiculous at all.
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Without real evidence from medical experts, I think such suppositions are really iffy, at best. this is medicine and beyond most of us.
Over on SoSHthey have some real docs and everyone defers to them.
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Good riddance.
Why? I would love to hear your rationale on disliking Ed Lacerte.
I think Doo is going to stay and might take over. I'm pretty sure he's well liked.
He mishandled injuries to Big Al, KG, and Wally, among others.
I'm not trying to be a jerk here (I swear).... Usually not a good start to a sentence ha
but...
Can you articulate how he mishandled these injuries? Are you referring to hearsay, or can you tell me more about each injury and the appropriate treatment plan?
You are one of the more educated posters on this forum, so you might have more info than I have. I haven't seen any of those MRI's, and never used a goniometer to measure any of those players' range of motion post injury. I also was not in the room for any of the surgeries. I'm actually not sure about anything other than what was reported in the media.
Injury set-backs happen in every sport. Look at Gronk.
How do you have more information than I do about the proper treatment plan for Big Al, KG, and Wally? How do you know how Lacerte and his team deviated from protocol?
With Big Al, they misdiagnosed bone chips in his ankles, to the point where Big Al was being labeled a malingerer. Instead, once they listened to their patient and cleaned the ankle, the injury went away almost immediately.
With KG, they underestimated the extent of his bone spur.
With Wally, they continually brought him back too soon, leading to recurrent injury.
Obviously, the team thinks they can do better. I welcome it.
Thanks for the response to what might have been construed as a condescending post on my part.
Lacerte was the athletic trainer for 30 years. Athletic trainers collaborate with physicians to provide rehab services. As the head trainer, he was more responsible than guys like Doo, but just as (or even less responsible) for a diagnosis than the physicians dealing with Big Al, KG, and Wally.
This post is titled "Ed Lacerte gone too". I guess I was just caught off guard that you had such strong opinions about one member of a team that deals with issues much more complicated than basketball.
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Anyone here discrediting Lacerte is just taking a total 100% complete factless guess at this situation.
No one here can say Lacerte mishandled injuries, you have literally no idea what you are talking about. You are just guessing because your favorite player got hurt. It's laughable that anyone in this thread is taking such a stance against these individuals while having ZERO knowledge of the situation.
Unless some players and owners come out and say they thought themselves or their players were mishandled by Lacerte, then you will have a right to say 'good riddance' to a real person who put his entire career and the prime of his life into keeping the Celtics players healthy.
Show some respect and don't act so petty.
First, I would tend to defer to Roy who probably knows recent C's history as well as anyone on this board!!
Second, Roy or anyone else has a right to express his or her opinion as long as he or she does so in a respectful fashion (I know Roy, funny coming from me:-))!! Matter of fact, Roy probably has a right to express his opinion more than anyone except for perhaps the revered Jeff Clark!!
Third, Roy was in NO WAY petty. He expressed his opinion and then back up his opinion with three SPECIFIC examples.
Thanks so much for your years of service and I wish you nothing but the best as our Celtics move in a new direction.
Smitty77
P.S. Sorry for speaking for you Roy, but that sort of got under my skin.
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Anyone here discrediting Lacerte is just taking a total 100% complete factless guess at this situation.
No one here can say Lacerte mishandled injuries, you have literally no idea what you are talking about. You are just guessing because your favorite player got hurt. It's laughable that anyone in this thread is taking such a stance against these individuals while having ZERO knowledge of the situation.
Unless some players and owners come out and say they thought themselves or their players were mishandled by Lacerte, then you will have a right to say 'good riddance' to a real person who put his entire career and the prime of his life into keeping the Celtics players healthy.
Show some respect and don't act so petty.
You can absolutely evaluate the medical staff of a team. I don't think it's ridiculous at all.
As a MD, you Mahcus Smaht, may be able to.
As a PT student, I am miles away from judging them. I might be able to judge the medical team better than I would judge a nuclear physicist, but just barely. Even though I'm studying anatomy around the clock (when I'm not procrastinating on this site), I'm still way out of my element.
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Anyone here discrediting Lacerte is just taking a total 100% complete factless guess at this situation.
No one here can say Lacerte mishandled injuries, you have literally no idea what you are talking about. You are just guessing because your favorite player got hurt. It's laughable that anyone in this thread is taking such a stance against these individuals while having ZERO knowledge of the situation.
Unless some players and owners come out and say they thought themselves or their players were mishandled by Lacerte, then you will have a right to say 'good riddance' to a real person who put his entire career and the prime of his life into keeping the Celtics players healthy.
Show some respect and don't act so petty.
You can absolutely evaluate the medical staff of a team. I don't think it's ridiculous at all.
As a MD, you Mahcus Smaht, may be able to.
As a PT student, I am miles away from judging them. I might be able to judge the medical team better than I would judge a nuclear physicist, but just barely. Even though I'm studying anatomy around the clock (when I'm not procrastinating on this site), I'm still way out of my element.
Can you judge something like this?
WALTHAM -- Al Jefferson knew of the growing perception about him and didn't like it one bit. The thing he disliked most was that, with the recurring pain in his right ankle, he couldn't do anything about it.
At the Toshiba Vegas Summer League last month -- more than five months after spraining the ankle -- Jefferson was still having soreness. It would feel better for a few weeks, then the pain would return. He would start to move like he wanted to again, then he would have to shut it down for a few days.
The worst part was that it was an injury that was supposed to take three weeks to heal and nobody could tell him why that wasn't fully happening.
"It frustrated me a lot because a lot of people were saying that I was faking it," Jefferson said yesterday. "Or that I wasn't tough enough. This and that. But it kept giving me problems. It became a big problem over the summer. I started thinking: [dang], there's no way I will be ready for camp."
It was the week after he returned from Las Vegas when Jefferson said he reached a tipping point. Unable to walk without pain during a brief return to his home in Mississippi, he scheduled another in the series of MRIs that dated back to the original injury. He said the latest one finally did reveal significant swelling and led to a CAT scan that diagnosed bone chips in the ankle.
"That was right before I was going to New York for a second opinion," he said. "They saw it, too. Everyone agreed that I needed surgery (as soon as possible)."
That surgery was two weeks ago at New England Baptist Hospital and Jefferson said he could see an immediate difference.
"They did a lot of work on the ankle with shaving the bone and everything and they thought it would be fat or swollen afterwards," he said. "But the only way you could tell I had the surgery was the stitches."
Since getting back on his feet last week, Jefferson has spent almost every day at the team's Waltham training facility working out with the strength and conditioning staff while wearing a boot on his foot. He said he intends to keep fit so that he can return to the court within three to five weeks and be ready for the opening of training camp in October.
While the ongoing ankle pain stole nearly half of his second season, Jefferson seems to have put aside any bitterness about why it took so long to find out the source of his discomfort.
"At first I was thinking that if this was it we could have had the surgery in May or June," he said. "But it's not their fault because everybody was looking at the same (MRIs) and it didn't show up.
"I am just glad that we found the problem," he concluded. "We can put it behind us and now we can get ready for the next season."
[More]
source:Metro West Daily
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Anyone here discrediting Lacerte is just taking a total 100% complete factless guess at this situation.
No one here can say Lacerte mishandled injuries, you have literally no idea what you are talking about. You are just guessing because your favorite player got hurt. It's laughable that anyone in this thread is taking such a stance against these individuals while having ZERO knowledge of the situation.
Unless some players and owners come out and say they thought themselves or their players were mishandled by Lacerte, then you will have a right to say 'good riddance' to a real person who put his entire career and the prime of his life into keeping the Celtics players healthy.
Show some respect and don't act so petty.
First, I would tend to defer to Roy who probably knows recent C's history as well as anyone on this board!!
Second, Roy or anyone else has a right to express his or her opinion as long as he or she does so in a respectful fashion (I know Roy, funny coming from me:-))!! Matter of fact, Roy probably has a right to express his opinion more than anyone except for perhaps the revered Jeff Clark!!
Third, Roy was in NO WAY petty. He expressed his opinion and then back up his opinion with three SPECIFIC examples.
Thanks so much for your years of service and I wish you nothing but the best as our Celtics move in a new direction.
Smitty77
P.S. Sorry for speaking for you Roy, but that sort of got under my skin.
I know that you were responding to the other poster.
I think you're making my point. Just because Roy knows a ton about the Celtics doesn't mean he knows a ton about the medical field.
There was a post titled "Do you believe in global warming?", and the same logic applied. If you don't have an advanced degree or experience in a complicated field, it is tough to prove your credibility on a given topic. My answer to that post was "It doesn't matter if you believe in it or not- the experts have told us what they have researched".
I believe I remember reading that Roy is an attorney. What if I started criticizing certain attorneys for certain actions that I might not understand? How would this be perceived?
Forums are a great place for people to voice their opinions without consequence. They are also a good place to call people out if you think that they are out of their element, and what they are saying doesn't make sense to you. Respectfully. Hopefully I have stayed respectful.
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Anyone here discrediting Lacerte is just taking a total 100% complete factless guess at this situation.
No one here can say Lacerte mishandled injuries, you have literally no idea what you are talking about. You are just guessing because your favorite player got hurt. It's laughable that anyone in this thread is taking such a stance against these individuals while having ZERO knowledge of the situation.
Unless some players and owners come out and say they thought themselves or their players were mishandled by Lacerte, then you will have a right to say 'good riddance' to a real person who put his entire career and the prime of his life into keeping the Celtics players healthy.
Show some respect and don't act so petty.
You can absolutely evaluate the medical staff of a team. I don't think it's ridiculous at all.
As a MD, you Mahcus Smaht, may be able to.
As a PT student, I am miles away from judging them. I might be able to judge the medical team better than I would judge a nuclear physicist, but just barely. Even though I'm studying anatomy around the clock (when I'm not procrastinating on this site), I'm still way out of my element.
Can you judge something like this?
WALTHAM -- Al Jefferson knew of the growing perception about him and didn't like it one bit. The thing he disliked most was that, with the recurring pain in his right ankle, he couldn't do anything about it.
At the Toshiba Vegas Summer League last month -- more than five months after spraining the ankle -- Jefferson was still having soreness. It would feel better for a few weeks, then the pain would return. He would start to move like he wanted to again, then he would have to shut it down for a few days.
The worst part was that it was an injury that was supposed to take three weeks to heal and nobody could tell him why that wasn't fully happening.
"It frustrated me a lot because a lot of people were saying that I was faking it," Jefferson said yesterday. "Or that I wasn't tough enough. This and that. But it kept giving me problems. It became a big problem over the summer. I started thinking: [dang], there's no way I will be ready for camp."
It was the week after he returned from Las Vegas when Jefferson said he reached a tipping point. Unable to walk without pain during a brief return to his home in Mississippi, he scheduled another in the series of MRIs that dated back to the original injury. He said the latest one finally did reveal significant swelling and led to a CAT scan that diagnosed bone chips in the ankle.
"That was right before I was going to New York for a second opinion," he said. "They saw it, too. Everyone agreed that I needed surgery (as soon as possible)."
That surgery was two weeks ago at New England Baptist Hospital and Jefferson said he could see an immediate difference.
"They did a lot of work on the ankle with shaving the bone and everything and they thought it would be fat or swollen afterwards," he said. "But the only way you could tell I had the surgery was the stitches."
Since getting back on his feet last week, Jefferson has spent almost every day at the team's Waltham training facility working out with the strength and conditioning staff while wearing a boot on his foot. He said he intends to keep fit so that he can return to the court within three to five weeks and be ready for the opening of training camp in October.
While the ongoing ankle pain stole nearly half of his second season, Jefferson seems to have put aside any bitterness about why it took so long to find out the source of his discomfort.
"At first I was thinking that if this was it we could have had the surgery in May or June," he said. "But it's not their fault because everybody was looking at the same (MRIs) and it didn't show up.
"I am just glad that we found the problem," he concluded. "We can put it behind us and now we can get ready for the next season."
[More]
source:Metro West Daily
I don't think I'm qualified. And unless I missed something, I didn't see Ed Lacerte's name mentioned in that article.
I also don't think that fell under Lacerte's job responsibility. It sounds like the problem occurred at the diagnosis level. Lacerte and his team are responsible for the treatment plan after the orthopaedic specialist assesses the situation. Depending on that diagnosis, the treatment plan can vary. While Lacerte likely can read MRI's, I'm sure he is not the most equipped specialist to do so. This is likely the reason why Al Jefferson went to a MD to diagnose the issue.
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...no biggie
never know .....we might get some even better people in ......might take a few attemps ."..
there is million of these trainer types out and graduating every day.
im optimistic
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Anyone here discrediting Lacerte is just taking a total 100% complete factless guess at this situation.
No one here can say Lacerte mishandled injuries, you have literally no idea what you are talking about. You are just guessing because your favorite player got hurt. It's laughable that anyone in this thread is taking such a stance against these individuals while having ZERO knowledge of the situation.
Unless some players and owners come out and say they thought themselves or their players were mishandled by Lacerte, then you will have a right to say 'good riddance' to a real person who put his entire career and the prime of his life into keeping the Celtics players healthy.
Show some respect and don't act so petty.
You can absolutely evaluate the medical staff of a team. I don't think it's ridiculous at all.
As a MD, you Mahcus Smaht, may be able to.
As a PT student, I am miles away from judging them. I might be able to judge the medical team better than I would judge a nuclear physicist, but just barely. Even though I'm studying anatomy around the clock (when I'm not procrastinating on this site), I'm still way out of my element.
Can you judge something like this?
WALTHAM -- Al Jefferson knew of the growing perception about him and didn't like it one bit. The thing he disliked most was that, with the recurring pain in his right ankle, he couldn't do anything about it.
At the Toshiba Vegas Summer League last month -- more than five months after spraining the ankle -- Jefferson was still having soreness. It would feel better for a few weeks, then the pain would return. He would start to move like he wanted to again, then he would have to shut it down for a few days.
The worst part was that it was an injury that was supposed to take three weeks to heal and nobody could tell him why that wasn't fully happening.
"It frustrated me a lot because a lot of people were saying that I was faking it," Jefferson said yesterday. "Or that I wasn't tough enough. This and that. But it kept giving me problems. It became a big problem over the summer. I started thinking: [dang], there's no way I will be ready for camp."
It was the week after he returned from Las Vegas when Jefferson said he reached a tipping point. Unable to walk without pain during a brief return to his home in Mississippi, he scheduled another in the series of MRIs that dated back to the original injury. He said the latest one finally did reveal significant swelling and led to a CAT scan that diagnosed bone chips in the ankle.
"That was right before I was going to New York for a second opinion," he said. "They saw it, too. Everyone agreed that I needed surgery (as soon as possible)."
That surgery was two weeks ago at New England Baptist Hospital and Jefferson said he could see an immediate difference.
"They did a lot of work on the ankle with shaving the bone and everything and they thought it would be fat or swollen afterwards," he said. "But the only way you could tell I had the surgery was the stitches."
Since getting back on his feet last week, Jefferson has spent almost every day at the team's Waltham training facility working out with the strength and conditioning staff while wearing a boot on his foot. He said he intends to keep fit so that he can return to the court within three to five weeks and be ready for the opening of training camp in October.
While the ongoing ankle pain stole nearly half of his second season, Jefferson seems to have put aside any bitterness about why it took so long to find out the source of his discomfort.
"At first I was thinking that if this was it we could have had the surgery in May or June," he said. "But it's not their fault because everybody was looking at the same (MRIs) and it didn't show up.
"I am just glad that we found the problem," he concluded. "We can put it behind us and now we can get ready for the next season."
[More]
source:Metro West Daily
I don't think I'm qualified. And unless I missed something, I didn't see Ed Lacerte's name mentioned in that article.
I also don't think that fell under Lacerte's job responsibility. It sounds like the problem occurred at the diagnosis level. Lacerte and his team are responsible for the treatment plan after the orthopaedic specialist assesses the situation. Depending on that diagnosis, the treatment plan can vary. While Lacerte likely can read MRI's, I'm sure he is not the most equipped specialist to do so. This is likely the reason why Al Jefferson went to a MD to diagnose the issue.
A player under his care, who allegedly suffered a 3-week injury, was still barely able to walk 5 months later. Yet, the player had to self-refer himself for more testing while seeking a second opinion.
The training staff has no authority / responsibility there? That's nonsense.
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Anyone here discrediting Lacerte is just taking a total 100% complete factless guess at this situation.
No one here can say Lacerte mishandled injuries, you have literally no idea what you are talking about. You are just guessing because your favorite player got hurt. It's laughable that anyone in this thread is taking such a stance against these individuals while having ZERO knowledge of the situation.
Unless some players and owners come out and say they thought themselves or their players were mishandled by Lacerte, then you will have a right to say 'good riddance' to a real person who put his entire career and the prime of his life into keeping the Celtics players healthy.
Show some respect and don't act so petty.
First, I would tend to defer to Roy who probably knows recent C's history as well as anyone on this board!!
Second, Roy or anyone else has a right to express his or her opinion as long as he or she does so in a respectful fashion (I know Roy, funny coming from me:-))!! Matter of fact, Roy probably has a right to express his opinion more than anyone except for perhaps the revered Jeff Clark!!
Third, Roy was in NO WAY petty. He expressed his opinion and then back up his opinion with three SPECIFIC examples.
Thanks so much for your years of service and I wish you nothing but the best as our Celtics move in a new direction.
Smitty77
P.S. Sorry for speaking for you Roy, but that sort of got under my skin.
You know, I would tend to agree with you, except for the fact that I found Roy's original post to be disrespectful and without any supporting information ("good riddance"). He has provided support for his opinion post-hoc so I guess that's ok, but this is an example of how such posts can get blown up.
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You have to wonder if the upcoming decision on IT's hip may also have something to do with this.
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Anyone here discrediting Lacerte is just taking a total 100% complete factless guess at this situation.
No one here can say Lacerte mishandled injuries, you have literally no idea what you are talking about. You are just guessing because your favorite player got hurt. It's laughable that anyone in this thread is taking such a stance against these individuals while having ZERO knowledge of the situation.
Unless some players and owners come out and say they thought themselves or their players were mishandled by Lacerte, then you will have a right to say 'good riddance' to a real person who put his entire career and the prime of his life into keeping the Celtics players healthy.
Show some respect and don't act so petty.
First, I would tend to defer to Roy who probably knows recent C's history as well as anyone on this board!!
Second, Roy or anyone else has a right to express his or her opinion as long as he or she does so in a respectful fashion (I know Roy, funny coming from me:-))!! Matter of fact, Roy probably has a right to express his opinion more than anyone except for perhaps the revered Jeff Clark!!
Third, Roy was in NO WAY petty. He expressed his opinion and then back up his opinion with three SPECIFIC examples.
Thanks so much for your years of service and I wish you nothing but the best as our Celtics move in a new direction.
Smitty77
P.S. Sorry for speaking for you Roy, but that sort of got under my skin.
You know, I would tend to agree with you, except for the fact that I found Roy's original post to be disrespectful and without any supporting information ("good riddance"). He has provided support for his opinion post-hoc so I guess that's ok, but this is an example of how such posts can get blown up.
I mean, you're all entitled to your opinions. It cracks me up that some folks think I come to my opinions without any basis, though, or because my favorite players got hurt.
A lot of our guys have returned much more slowly than anticipated from injury. KG. Big Al. Wally. Shaq. AB. Players have missed publicly released time tables by several months. That at least raises concerns, especially with our All-NBA player currently in need of rehab.
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...no biggie
never know .....we might get some even better people in ......might take a few attemps ."..
there is million of these trainer types out and graduating every day.
im optimistic
I'm happy. Never understood why guys would be out a month with an ankle sprain.
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Anyone here discrediting Lacerte is just taking a total 100% complete factless guess at this situation.
No one here can say Lacerte mishandled injuries, you have literally no idea what you are talking about. You are just guessing because your favorite player got hurt. It's laughable that anyone in this thread is taking such a stance against these individuals while having ZERO knowledge of the situation.
Unless some players and owners come out and say they thought themselves or their players were mishandled by Lacerte, then you will have a right to say 'good riddance' to a real person who put his entire career and the prime of his life into keeping the Celtics players healthy.
Show some respect and don't act so petty.
You can absolutely evaluate the medical staff of a team. I don't think it's ridiculous at all.
As a MD, you Mahcus Smaht, may be able to.
As a PT student, I am miles away from judging them. I might be able to judge the medical team better than I would judge a nuclear physicist, but just barely. Even though I'm studying anatomy around the clock (when I'm not procrastinating on this site), I'm still way out of my element.
You don't need to be an expert in a field to evaluate the results.
Should a nuclear physicist only be fireable on the command of another nuclear physicist?
Absurd.
would you agree that Phoenix has an excellent medical staff?
When you have a large enough sample size you can evaluate a medical staff based on results.
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To be honest I think this is good. Ed was good but we have had so many issues over the last 5-10 years. Change in this regard is good, we'd become far too comfortable accepting the standard when I think we should be much better
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The Celts are heavily invested in a new training facility that is on the cutting edge of sports science:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2016/10/24/celtics-break-ground-new-practice-facility/W5d6Y3TfoN3ZcZBDDvtieJ/amp.html
My guess is that they didn't view Lacerte as the leader for a new era.
Features of the practices facility will include:
■ Two parquet floor basketball courts
■ Audio-visual technology throughout the facility
■ Expanded strength and conditioning, training, and recovery facilities
■ Locker rooms and players’ lounge
■ Physical therapy areas including hydrotherapy pools
■ Sports science and nutrition facilities
■ Expanded media work room, press conference, and broadcast facilities
■ A flexible hospitality area designed for community relations activities, partner gatherings and other guest events
■ Work space for the team’s coaching and basketball front office staffs
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Anyone here discrediting Lacerte is just taking a total 100% complete factless guess at this situation.
No one here can say Lacerte mishandled injuries, you have literally no idea what you are talking about. You are just guessing because your favorite player got hurt. It's laughable that anyone in this thread is taking such a stance against these individuals while having ZERO knowledge of the situation.
Unless some players and owners come out and say they thought themselves or their players were mishandled by Lacerte, then you will have a right to say 'good riddance' to a real person who put his entire career and the prime of his life into keeping the Celtics players healthy.
Show some respect and don't act so petty.
First, I would tend to defer to Roy who probably knows recent C's history as well as anyone on this board!!
Second, Roy or anyone else has a right to express his or her opinion as long as he or she does so in a respectful fashion (I know Roy, funny coming from me:-))!! Matter of fact, Roy probably has a right to express his opinion more than anyone except for perhaps the revered Jeff Clark!!
Third, Roy was in NO WAY petty. He expressed his opinion and then back up his opinion with three SPECIFIC examples.
Thanks so much for your years of service and I wish you nothing but the best as our Celtics move in a new direction.
Smitty77
P.S. Sorry for speaking for you Roy, but that sort of got under my skin.
You know, I would tend to agree with you, except for the fact that I found Roy's original post to be disrespectful and without any supporting information ("good riddance"). He has provided support for his opinion post-hoc so I guess that's ok, but this is an example of how such posts can get blown up.
I mean, you're all entitled to your opinions. It cracks me up that some folks think I come to my opinions without any basis, though, or because my favorite players got hurt.
A lot of our guys have returned much more slowly than anticipated from injury. KG. Big Al. Wally. Shaw. AB. Players have missed publicly released time tables by several months. That at least raises concerns, especially with our All-NBA player currently in need of rehab.
Your last two posts make more sense to me.
Yes, that Jefferson situation doesn't smell right.
I'm not in love with the idea of a publicly released time table. I think it makes sense to hold back a player if they are not recovering at an expected pace. I'm not sure that I would blame a trainer for a player that is recovering slowly. Not every ACL is the same.
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Anyone here discrediting Lacerte is just taking a total 100% complete factless guess at this situation.
No one here can say Lacerte mishandled injuries, you have literally no idea what you are talking about. You are just guessing because your favorite player got hurt. It's laughable that anyone in this thread is taking such a stance against these individuals while having ZERO knowledge of the situation.
Unless some players and owners come out and say they thought themselves or their players were mishandled by Lacerte, then you will have a right to say 'good riddance' to a real person who put his entire career and the prime of his life into keeping the Celtics players healthy.
Show some respect and don't act so petty.
First, I would tend to defer to Roy who probably knows recent C's history as well as anyone on this board!!
Second, Roy or anyone else has a right to express his or her opinion as long as he or she does so in a respectful fashion (I know Roy, funny coming from me:-))!! Matter of fact, Roy probably has a right to express his opinion more than anyone except for perhaps the revered Jeff Clark!!
Third, Roy was in NO WAY petty. He expressed his opinion and then back up his opinion with three SPECIFIC examples.
Thanks so much for your years of service and I wish you nothing but the best as our Celtics move in a new direction.
Smitty77
P.S. Sorry for speaking for you Roy, but that sort of got under my skin.
You know, I would tend to agree with you, except for the fact that I found Roy's original post to be disrespectful and without any supporting information ("good riddance"). He has provided support for his opinion post-hoc so I guess that's ok, but this is an example of how such posts can get blown up.
I mean, you're all entitled to your opinions. It cracks me up that some folks think I come to my opinions without any basis, though, or because my favorite players got hurt.
A lot of our guys have returned much more slowly than anticipated from injury. KG. Big Al. Wally. Shaq. AB. Players have missed publicly released time tables by several months. That at least raises concerns, especially with our All-NBA player currently in need of rehab.
Roy, we all recognize you as an excellent authority on all-things-Celtics. It would just be nice for you to share some of your wisdom with us, so we may all learn something. You indeed did that and I learned a lot from you in this thread, but only after I and others called you out for having no basis for your assertions.
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...no biggie
never know .....we might get some even better people in ......might take a few attemps ."..
there is million of these trainer types out and graduating every day.
im optimistic
I'm happy. Never understood why guys would be out a month with an ankle sprain.
Ankle sprains can be severe. You can tear tendons and ligaments. Could take months to recover.
-
Anyone here discrediting Lacerte is just taking a total 100% complete factless guess at this situation.
No one here can say Lacerte mishandled injuries, you have literally no idea what you are talking about. You are just guessing because your favorite player got hurt. It's laughable that anyone in this thread is taking such a stance against these individuals while having ZERO knowledge of the situation.
Unless some players and owners come out and say they thought themselves or their players were mishandled by Lacerte, then you will have a right to say 'good riddance' to a real person who put his entire career and the prime of his life into keeping the Celtics players healthy.
Show some respect and don't act so petty.
You can absolutely evaluate the medical staff of a team. I don't think it's ridiculous at all.
As a MD, you Mahcus Smaht, may be able to.
As a PT student, I am miles away from judging them. I might be able to judge the medical team better than I would judge a nuclear physicist, but just barely. Even though I'm studying anatomy around the clock (when I'm not procrastinating on this site), I'm still way out of my element.
You don't need to be an expert in a field to evaluate the results.
Should a nuclear physicist only be fireable on the command of another nuclear physicist?
Absurd.
would you agree that Phoenix has an excellent medical staff?
When you have a large enough sample size you can evaluate a medical staff based on results.
I guess this is a point of disagreement. I do think one needs to be educated to make an educated opinion. If one wants to make uneducated (or undereducated) assertions, I guess that's fine. You just shouldn't get sensitive when people call you out for making silly comments.
Again, I'm not trying to come off as a jerk, but I read too many comments by people that don't seem to know what they're talking about.
I have no idea about the Phoenix staff. I haven't talked to any of their players, or other patients that have been treated. I don't know anything what they did before they went to Phoenix, and haven't read any research written by any of them. Which metrics would you use to evaluate them as a whole? "Keeping guys healthy" isn't a real answer.
I think the adage "the more you know, the less you think you know" applies.
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...no biggie
never know .....we might get some even better people in ......might take a few attemps ."..
there is million of these trainer types out and graduating every day.
im optimistic
I'm happy. Never understood why guys would be out a month with an ankle sprain.
Ankle sprains can be severe. You can tear tendons and ligaments. Could take months to recover.
Oh, I've had many of them. And sometimes they healed so slow, I thought ed lacerte was treating them.
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Good riddance.
Why? I would love to hear your rationale on disliking Ed Lacerte.
I think Doo is going to stay and might take over. I'm pretty sure he's well liked.
I don't think his team have handled injuries right. IT's could possible been prevented when it first occurred in MArch. As long as the bone isn't misshapen, it's just a matter of rest. He should have been shut down for a few weeks, yes it would have cost us first place, but he'd be working out right now.
There are new ways of doing things. Pitchers are starting to use more heat than ice on shoulders. Blood heals muscles. Cold prevents blood flow, heat increases it. So we need more people who are up to date in the latest training techniques.
I think you're assuming that Lacerte/Doo are not on the cutting edge. I don't think that's fair. I'm not related to these guys, or even know them.
I do know that Lacerte was well respected around the league. Your assumption that he's out of touch might be that he's older now, which isn't a valid reason. There are plenty of older people that stay savvy with modern medical advancements.
Doo is younger and has his own practice. There's nothing there that tells me that he's not up-to-date with medical research/advancement.
My guess is that ownership/management got excited by something else and wanted to try it. This is different than saying the other guys weren't good enough.
I actually thought they handled the Celtics well during their championship run and the years after. It was known around the league that the Celtics were resting for the playoffs, similar to how the Cavs are (intelligently) treating Lebron.
Old Doctors, old tricks. Some times they don't want to try new methods. Now I can't say if this is true, but players have been taking a long time to come back from basic injuries that others come back from in half the time. It took AB two months to come back from his injury that my wife said should have taken half the time, also again with IT.
There are new methods, well they are actually really old, called cranial sacral. My gradfather calls it voodoo. But it works. This is something that older medical personal are very against because they are too science minded. I wouldn't be surprised if Hayward brought this up being part of his treatments. Utah has a big PT school, and Cranial Sacral is big out there.
With the new facility and new methods, it could be time for new blood. Keep guys young and healthy. Lacerte has been good, but has been around since Bird. And he's slipped in recent years with Big Al, KG,Shaq,AB,IT. Main players, big contracts, they need to have better.
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Anyone here discrediting Lacerte is just taking a total 100% complete factless guess at this situation.
No one here can say Lacerte mishandled injuries, you have literally no idea what you are talking about. You are just guessing because your favorite player got hurt. It's laughable that anyone in this thread is taking such a stance against these individuals while having ZERO knowledge of the situation.
Unless some players and owners come out and say they thought themselves or their players were mishandled by Lacerte, then you will have a right to say 'good riddance' to a real person who put his entire career and the prime of his life into keeping the Celtics players healthy.
Show some respect and don't act so petty.
First, I would tend to defer to Roy who probably knows recent C's history as well as anyone on this board!!
Second, Roy or anyone else has a right to express his or her opinion as long as he or she does so in a respectful fashion (I know Roy, funny coming from me:-))!! Matter of fact, Roy probably has a right to express his opinion more than anyone except for perhaps the revered Jeff Clark!!
Third, Roy was in NO WAY petty. He expressed his opinion and then back up his opinion with three SPECIFIC examples.
Thanks so much for your years of service and I wish you nothing but the best as our Celtics move in a new direction.
Smitty77
P.S. Sorry for speaking for you Roy, but that sort of got under my skin.
You know, I would tend to agree with you, except for the fact that I found Roy's original post to be disrespectful and without any supporting information ("good riddance"). He has provided support for his opinion post-hoc so I guess that's ok, but this is an example of how such posts can get blown up.
I mean, you're all entitled to your opinions. It cracks me up that some folks think I come to my opinions without any basis, though, or because my favorite players got hurt.
A lot of our guys have returned much more slowly than anticipated from injury. KG. Big Al. Wally. Shaq. AB. Players have missed publicly released time tables by several months. That at least raises concerns, especially with our All-NBA player currently in need of rehab.
I myself am a bit glad that Lacerte is going to be replaced - and I can admit that this is just based on being on the outside looking in, not knowing any of the true details behind the injuries each of those players suffered. How much blame Lacerte truly deserves is unknown. No two injuries are exactly the same.
What I'm wondering is how much blame Dr. Brian McKeon, the team physician (orthepedic surgeon, specializing in joint areas according to his profile at New England Baptist hospital) deserves, particularly with KG's injury. Supposedly the team knew about KG's bone spurs before 2009 started. And while the injury that KG suffered is relatively rare for a basketball player, it's the team physician's job to decide on the best way to manage the problem. If the surgery had been done in the 2008 offseason, would we be looking at another banner or two? With regard to letting KG play again about a month later after getting injured in Utah, that's probably a major mistake on the part of the physical therapists (Lacerte and crew) and Dr. McKeon as well.
And shoutout to Vitor Faverani, another case that was botched by our medical staff, having arthroscopic surgery a full month after the initial injury to finally diagnose a torn meniscus. About 7 months later, he had to have another surgery on that same knee - this after being deemed "healthy" and good to go for training camp - because he experienced knee pain and inflammation after working out in the first day of practice. Not a good look for Dr. McKeon and the rest of our medical personnel.
Perhaps we need not just new physical therapists, but a new team surgeon.
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Anyone here discrediting Lacerte is just taking a total 100% complete factless guess at this situation.
No one here can say Lacerte mishandled injuries, you have literally no idea what you are talking about. You are just guessing because your favorite player got hurt. It's laughable that anyone in this thread is taking such a stance against these individuals while having ZERO knowledge of the situation.
Unless some players and owners come out and say they thought themselves or their players were mishandled by Lacerte, then you will have a right to say 'good riddance' to a real person who put his entire career and the prime of his life into keeping the Celtics players healthy.
Show some respect and don't act so petty.
You can absolutely evaluate the medical staff of a team. I don't think it's ridiculous at all.
As a MD, you Mahcus Smaht, may be able to.
As a PT student, I am miles away from judging them. I might be able to judge the medical team better than I would judge a nuclear physicist, but just barely. Even though I'm studying anatomy around the clock (when I'm not procrastinating on this site), I'm still way out of my element.
You don't need to be an expert in a field to evaluate the results.
Should a nuclear physicist only be fireable on the command of another nuclear physicist?
Absurd.
would you agree that Phoenix has an excellent medical staff?
When you have a large enough sample size you can evaluate a medical staff based on results.
And now time to contradict the post I just made by defending our team's medical staff.
I agree that when our team's players as a whole seem to be having less-than-optimal outcomes, until you're actually trained to do the job that they do, and that you have all of the pertinent information in front of you, such as a thorough physical examination and radiologic imaging, it's difficult to say whether our medical staff fully deserve blame in each and every case. In Vitor Faverani's case it's seems clear that our medical staff likely screwed up. But we're not the only team in which players have had poor outcomes. Danilo Gallinari ACL comes to mind.
No two injuries are completely alike. Say for example, Adrian Peterson's ACL tear vs. Rondo's ACL tear. Peterson made a remarkable comeback ahead of schedule and was as beastly as ever. Rondo has his ACL repaired by the exact same surgeon (Dr. James Andrews), but took about the expected time to recover and his athleticism wasn't quite the same. Is that the surgeon's fault? Is that our PTs fault? Difficult to tell.
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...no biggie
never know .....we might get some even better people in ......might take a few attemps ."..
there is million of these trainer types out and graduating every day.
im optimistic
I'm happy. Never understood why guys would be out a month with an ankle sprain.
Ankle sprains can be severe. You can tear tendons and ligaments. Could take months to recover.
I can attest to that. I'd rather have broken my foot than the sprains I've had. Took a full year for my sprain to fully resolve. Recovery time for a broken foot would have been shorter.
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Please allow me to be old. I remember when Ed joined the team, day one. For me this is as if Tom Gorman was let go. And I remember him starting big east games.
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Rondo and Perk both fell off a cliff after their respective injuries.
I've always wondered if those were handled properly.
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Long overdue and a huge win for the Celtics.
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I think it sucks to see a familiar face like Ed (and Bryan) leave. It's kind of like seeing Mike and/or Tommy let go, but to a lesser extent.
With all the people that get moved in the world or professional sports, it was nice to see a guy on the sidelines game after game, season after season, decade after decade.
You guys can moan about injuries and rehabs that we really don't have any clue about, but he was one of the most well-respected trainers around the league.
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Anyone here discrediting Lacerte is just taking a total 100% complete factless guess at this situation.
No one here can say Lacerte mishandled injuries, you have literally no idea what you are talking about. You are just guessing because your favorite player got hurt. It's laughable that anyone in this thread is taking such a stance against these individuals while having ZERO knowledge of the situation.
Unless some players and owners come out and say they thought themselves or their players were mishandled by Lacerte, then you will have a right to say 'good riddance' to a real person who put his entire career and the prime of his life into keeping the Celtics players healthy.
Show some respect and don't act so petty.
You can absolutely evaluate the medical staff of a team. I don't think it's ridiculous at all.
As a MD, you Mahcus Smaht, may be able to.
As a PT student, I am miles away from judging them. I might be able to judge the medical team better than I would judge a nuclear physicist, but just barely. Even though I'm studying anatomy around the clock (when I'm not procrastinating on this site), I'm still way out of my element.
You don't need to be an expert in a field to evaluate the results.
Should a nuclear physicist only be fireable on the command of another nuclear physicist?
Absurd.
would you agree that Phoenix has an excellent medical staff?
When you have a large enough sample size you can evaluate a medical staff based on results.
I guess this is a point of disagreement. I do think one needs to be educated to make an educated opinion. If one wants to make uneducated (or undereducated) assertions, I guess that's fine. You just shouldn't get sensitive when people call you out for making silly comments.
Again, I'm not trying to come off as a jerk, but I read too many comments by people that don't seem to know what they're talking about.
I have no idea about the Phoenix staff. I haven't talked to any of their players, or other patients that have been treated. I don't know anything what they did before they went to Phoenix, and haven't read any research written by any of them. Which metrics would you use to evaluate them as a whole? "Keeping guys healthy" isn't a real answer.
I think the adage "the more you know, the less you think you know" applies.
Do the players themselves have the proper expertise to know if they are being correctly treated?
who in the Celtics FO can evaluate Lacerte?
Obviously the more knowledge of the field and information allows you to make a better judgement, but as with anything in this blog, us fans have limited info and that does not preclude us from making an evaluation. I have made no strong assertions on this situation because I have not examined thoroughly the Celtics injury histories relative to the rest of the NBA world.
However, I think it is well within reason that a fan could examine this information and make a reasonable evaluation of the medical staff. Now would it be perfect? No. If I were Danny Ainge and a fan sent me an email saying we should fire Ed Lacerte would I accept the conclusion? No. Danny Ainge and the Celtics FO have more information and likely more expertise with regards to injuries.
Same could be said about the posters who say good riddance when we dump Jordan Mickey. Most of us haven't coached at a high level or played NBA basketball or witnessed the practices or talked to his teammates.
It's the way it is. I'm not sure why the standard evaluating a medical staff is higher than it is a front office or a coach or a player.
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I think it sucks to see a familiar face like Ed (and Bryan) leave. It's kind of like seeing Mike and/or Tommy let go, but to a lesser extent.
With all the people that get moved in the world or professional sports, it was nice to see a guy on the sidelines game after game, season after season, decade after decade.
You guys can moan about injuries and rehabs that we really don't have any clue about, but he was one of the most well-respected trainers around the league.
Id be really sad if we let mike or Tommy go.
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Anyone here discrediting Lacerte is just taking a total 100% complete factless guess at this situation.
No one here can say Lacerte mishandled injuries, you have literally no idea what you are talking about. You are just guessing because your favorite player got hurt. It's laughable that anyone in this thread is taking such a stance against these individuals while having ZERO knowledge of the situation.
Unless some players and owners come out and say they thought themselves or their players were mishandled by Lacerte, then you will have a right to say 'good riddance' to a real person who put his entire career and the prime of his life into keeping the Celtics players healthy.
Show some respect and don't act so petty.
You can absolutely evaluate the medical staff of a team. I don't think it's ridiculous at all.
As a MD, you Mahcus Smaht, may be able to.
As a PT student, I am miles away from judging them. I might be able to judge the medical team better than I would judge a nuclear physicist, but just barely. Even though I'm studying anatomy around the clock (when I'm not procrastinating on this site), I'm still way out of my element.
You don't need to be an expert in a field to evaluate the results.
Should a nuclear physicist only be fireable on the command of another nuclear physicist?
Absurd.
would you agree that Phoenix has an excellent medical staff?
When you have a large enough sample size you can evaluate a medical staff based on results.
I guess this is a point of disagreement. I do think one needs to be educated to make an educated opinion. If one wants to make uneducated (or undereducated) assertions, I guess that's fine. You just shouldn't get sensitive when people call you out for making silly comments.
Again, I'm not trying to come off as a jerk, but I read too many comments by people that don't seem to know what they're talking about.
I have no idea about the Phoenix staff. I haven't talked to any of their players, or other patients that have been treated. I don't know anything what they did before they went to Phoenix, and haven't read any research written by any of them. Which metrics would you use to evaluate them as a whole? "Keeping guys healthy" isn't a real answer.
I think the adage "the more you know, the less you think you know" applies.
Do the players themselves have the proper expertise to know if they are being correctly treated?
who in the Celtics FO can evaluate Lacerte?
Obviously the more knowledge of the field and information allows you to make a better judgement, but as with anything in this blog, us fans have limited info and that does not preclude us from making an evaluation. I have made no strong assertions on this situation because I have not examined thoroughly the Celtics injury histories relative to the rest of the NBA world.
However, I think it is well within reason that a fan could examine this information and make a reasonable evaluation of the medical staff. Now would it be perfect? No. If I were Danny Ainge and a fan sent me an email saying we should fire Ed Lacerte would I accept the conclusion? No. Danny Ainge and the Celtics FO have more information and likely more expertise with regards to injuries.
Same could be said about the posters who say good riddance when we dump Jordan Mickey. Most of us haven't coached at a high level or played NBA basketball or witnessed the practices or talked to his teammates.
It's the way it is. I'm not sure why the standard evaluating a medical staff is higher than it is a front office or a coach or a player.
In order to evaluate a medical staff, you should know about medicine. In order to evaluate a basketball team, you should know about basketball. Otherwise, how useful is an evaluation?
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Anyone here discrediting Lacerte is just taking a total 100% complete factless guess at this situation.
No one here can say Lacerte mishandled injuries, you have literally no idea what you are talking about. You are just guessing because your favorite player got hurt. It's laughable that anyone in this thread is taking such a stance against these individuals while having ZERO knowledge of the situation.
Unless some players and owners come out and say they thought themselves or their players were mishandled by Lacerte, then you will have a right to say 'good riddance' to a real person who put his entire career and the prime of his life into keeping the Celtics players healthy.
Show some respect and don't act so petty.
You can absolutely evaluate the medical staff of a team. I don't think it's ridiculous at all.
As a MD, you Mahcus Smaht, may be able to.
As a PT student, I am miles away from judging them. I might be able to judge the medical team better than I would judge a nuclear physicist, but just barely. Even though I'm studying anatomy around the clock (when I'm not procrastinating on this site), I'm still way out of my element.
You don't need to be an expert in a field to evaluate the results.
Should a nuclear physicist only be fireable on the command of another nuclear physicist?
Absurd.
would you agree that Phoenix has an excellent medical staff?
When you have a large enough sample size you can evaluate a medical staff based on results.
I guess this is a point of disagreement. I do think one needs to be educated to make an educated opinion. If one wants to make uneducated (or undereducated) assertions, I guess that's fine. You just shouldn't get sensitive when people call you out for making silly comments.
Again, I'm not trying to come off as a jerk, but I read too many comments by people that don't seem to know what they're talking about.
I have no idea about the Phoenix staff. I haven't talked to any of their players, or other patients that have been treated. I don't know anything what they did before they went to Phoenix, and haven't read any research written by any of them. Which metrics would you use to evaluate them as a whole? "Keeping guys healthy" isn't a real answer.
I think the adage "the more you know, the less you think you know" applies.
Do the players themselves have the proper expertise to know if they are being correctly treated?
who in the Celtics FO can evaluate Lacerte?
Obviously the more knowledge of the field and information allows you to make a better judgement, but as with anything in this blog, us fans have limited info and that does not preclude us from making an evaluation. I have made no strong assertions on this situation because I have not examined thoroughly the Celtics injury histories relative to the rest of the NBA world.
However, I think it is well within reason that a fan could examine this information and make a reasonable evaluation of the medical staff. Now would it be perfect? No. If I were Danny Ainge and a fan sent me an email saying we should fire Ed Lacerte would I accept the conclusion? No. Danny Ainge and the Celtics FO have more information and likely more expertise with regards to injuries.
Same could be said about the posters who say good riddance when we dump Jordan Mickey. Most of us haven't coached at a high level or played NBA basketball or witnessed the practices or talked to his teammates.
It's the way it is. I'm not sure why the standard evaluating a medical staff is higher than it is a front office or a coach or a player.
In order to evaluate a medical staff, you should know about medicine. In order to evaluate a basketball team, you should know about basketball. Otherwise, how useful is an evaluation?
If I knew nothing about basketball but looked at the success of the Knocks and the celtics over the past 20 years, I would conclude that the Celtics have a superior FO. I'd probably be correct.
If I knew nothing about basketball games but could read the news and look at basketball scores I could make a form reasonable opinions.
Again, my stance on the Lecerte situation has been "Bummer. hopefully we can get better people he was well liked". However, I don't know why we have chosen to make the standard of evaluation so much higher for Ed Lacerte than we have for anything else ranging from player evaluation to global warming.
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Anyone here discrediting Lacerte is just taking a total 100% complete factless guess at this situation.
No one here can say Lacerte mishandled injuries, you have literally no idea what you are talking about. You are just guessing because your favorite player got hurt. It's laughable that anyone in this thread is taking such a stance against these individuals while having ZERO knowledge of the situation.
Unless some players and owners come out and say they thought themselves or their players were mishandled by Lacerte, then you will have a right to say 'good riddance' to a real person who put his entire career and the prime of his life into keeping the Celtics players healthy.
Show some respect and don't act so petty.
You can absolutely evaluate the medical staff of a team. I don't think it's ridiculous at all.
As a MD, you Mahcus Smaht, may be able to.
As a PT student, I am miles away from judging them. I might be able to judge the medical team better than I would judge a nuclear physicist, but just barely. Even though I'm studying anatomy around the clock (when I'm not procrastinating on this site), I'm still way out of my element.
You don't need to be an expert in a field to evaluate the results.
Should a nuclear physicist only be fireable on the command of another nuclear physicist?
Absurd.
would you agree that Phoenix has an excellent medical staff?
When you have a large enough sample size you can evaluate a medical staff based on results.
I guess this is a point of disagreement. I do think one needs to be educated to make an educated opinion. If one wants to make uneducated (or undereducated) assertions, I guess that's fine. You just shouldn't get sensitive when people call you out for making silly comments.
Again, I'm not trying to come off as a jerk, but I read too many comments by people that don't seem to know what they're talking about.
I have no idea about the Phoenix staff. I haven't talked to any of their players, or other patients that have been treated. I don't know anything what they did before they went to Phoenix, and haven't read any research written by any of them. Which metrics would you use to evaluate them as a whole? "Keeping guys healthy" isn't a real answer.
I think the adage "the more you know, the less you think you know" applies.
Do the players themselves have the proper expertise to know if they are being correctly treated?
who in the Celtics FO can evaluate Lacerte?
Obviously the more knowledge of the field and information allows you to make a better judgement, but as with anything in this blog, us fans have limited info and that does not preclude us from making an evaluation. I have made no strong assertions on this situation because I have not examined thoroughly the Celtics injury histories relative to the rest of the NBA world.
However, I think it is well within reason that a fan could examine this information and make a reasonable evaluation of the medical staff. Now would it be perfect? No. If I were Danny Ainge and a fan sent me an email saying we should fire Ed Lacerte would I accept the conclusion? No. Danny Ainge and the Celtics FO have more information and likely more expertise with regards to injuries.
Same could be said about the posters who say good riddance when we dump Jordan Mickey. Most of us haven't coached at a high level or played NBA basketball or witnessed the practices or talked to his teammates.
It's the way it is. I'm not sure why the standard evaluating a medical staff is higher than it is a front office or a coach or a player.
In order to evaluate a medical staff, you should know about medicine. In order to evaluate a basketball team, you should know about basketball. Otherwise, how useful is an evaluation?
I don't necessarily agree with this. If you hire a carpenter to build a house and it's a complete mess, would you hire him again? Probably not. You don't need to be an expert carpenter either to make that decision.
I'm sure, like with almost jobs, each member of the Celtics staff has their own metrics to measure their performance. I don't think it's the case that Ainge has Lacerte on his staff and just hopes he's doing his job but is essentially unqualified to make any decision because he's no expert on medicine.
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Look what Ed Lacerte did to Greg Kite.
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I can't help but speculate this is somehow related to IT's hip injury. Personally feel he should have been shut down a lot sooner than he was, and wonder if he risked further damage by continuing to play on it. No evidence, just trying to string together sequence of events.
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I can't help but speculate this is somehow related to IT's hip injury. Personally feel he should have been shut down a lot sooner than he was, and wonder if he risked further damage by continuing to play on it. No evidence, just trying to string together sequence of events.
interesting theory honestly. I wonder if there were 2nd opinions from independent doctors saying that it wasn't a good idea to play with the injury
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https://hardwoodhoudini.com/2017/07/21/boston-celtics-place-premium-sports-science-personnel-changes/
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https://hardwoodhoudini.com/2017/07/21/boston-celtics-place-premium-sports-science-personnel-changes/
I can buy the argument that Lacerte and Doo were out of touch with the latest trends, but I can't verify that, or if this "biological analytics" really works. Just not my area.
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A good article on why the Cs are revamping their sports science folks.
“We’re certainly not pointing the finger at [Lacerte, Doo, or Shulman] as bad,” Ainge said. “It’s just that when you’re making changes, it’s hard to bring in people into a new organization with ideas and control over departments. It’s just hard on everybody, and so we just decided to move in a different direction.”
According to a league source, there was some uneasiness about the hierarchy of the Celtics’ sports medicine and performance staff, and the Celtics believed a fresh start was the best option
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2017/07/25/celtics-overhaul-sports-medicine-strength-training-departments/zpEhio7QO3NebWGsEDOSGP/story.html
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Think he'll get a card or something from Marquis Daniels?
Me neither.
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A good article on why the Cs are revamping their sports science folks.
“We’re certainly not pointing the finger at [Lacerte, Doo, or Shulman] as bad,” Ainge said. “It’s just that when you’re making changes, it’s hard to bring in people into a new organization with ideas and control over departments. It’s just hard on everybody, and so we just decided to move in a different direction.”
According to a league source, there was some uneasiness about the hierarchy of the Celtics’ sports medicine and performance staff, and the Celtics believed a fresh start was the best option
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2017/07/25/celtics-overhaul-sports-medicine-strength-training-departments/zpEhio7QO3NebWGsEDOSGP/story.html
Could be BS but it makes sense, hard to turn a boss into a subordinate. It wouldn't be easy to go from calling the shots to falling in line, especially if you think your way is the best.
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The one thing I would say in this whole Lacerte thing is I remember hearing his name back when he was treating Bird. By all accounts I have heard he is professional and well-liked. This also means he was probably in service of the Celtics for 25 years.
I think when you say something like "good riddance" people are going to feel that kind of sentiment should be more reserved for a Mark Blount type situation where someone isn't trying and does actions worthy of scorn. i think saying something like "it was probably time for a change" would come off a bit softer and wouldn't offend people, some of who have had interactions with Lacerte over the years or been treated by his colleagues.