CelticsStrong
Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: jay on July 12, 2017, 11:14:54 PM
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Hear me out. 2 ideas working here. First, if IT and Smart get new contracts, I can't imagine Terry fits long term. 2nd, we have so many players, we need to package some of them or we will have to waive them.
Some time in the next couple of days, Mickey will get waived and Hayward gets signed officially.
Would you trade Rozier and Jackson (and the rights to Nader) for either:
Noah Vonleh and Shabbaz Napier
Or
Kyle O'Quinn and Chasson Randle
The 15 man would be:
IT. Smart. Napier
Hayward. Brown
Crowder. Tatum. Semi.
Morris. Vonleh. Yabusele
Horford. Baynes. Theis. Zizic
So we get weaker at 3rd string PG but we get another big that can rebound.
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Wouldn't he be our only backup point guard assuming Smart starts or does BS really see Smart as a PG? 2nd unit wont have any ball handlers. But by next year, I see trading him the best choice based off what you said. Also its interesting to see what position Hayward plays and if Crowder even starts
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Wouldn't he be our only backup point guard assuming Smart starts or does BS really see Smart as a PG? 2nd unit wont have any ball handlers. But by next year, I see trading him the best choice based off what you said. Also its interesting to see what position Hayward plays and if Crowder even starts
Smart Thomas and Hayward are the three players on the team capable of running an offense.
Any minutes with none of them on the court will be bad.
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Wouldn't he be our only backup point guard assuming Smart starts or does BS really see Smart as a PG? 2nd unit wont have any ball handlers. But by next year, I see trading him the best choice based off what you said. Also its interesting to see what position Hayward plays and if Crowder even starts
Smart Thomas and Hayward are the three players on the team capable of running an offense.
Any minutes with none of them on the court will be bad.
I'm just not sold that Jaylens starting next year. Marcus is the only other player capable of playing the two unless we plan on starting crowder. I seem Crowder more capable of leading the 2nd unit then Marcus. He needs to guard the top opposing guards IMO. Our 2nd unit 3pt shooting would be weak. Playoff Smart creates illusions at times lol. He becomes a different man.
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Wouldn't he be our only backup point guard assuming Smart starts or does BS really see Smart as a PG? 2nd unit wont have any ball handlers. But by next year, I see trading him the best choice based off what you said. Also its interesting to see what position Hayward plays and if Crowder even starts
Smart Thomas and Hayward are the three players on the team capable of running an offense.
Any minutes with none of them on the court will be bad.
I'm just not sold that Jaylens starting next year. Marcus is the only other player capable of playing the two unless we plan on starting crowder. I seem Crowder more capable of leading the 2nd unit then Marcus. He needs to guard the top opposing guards IMO. Our 2nd unit 3pt shooting would be weak. Playoff Smart creates illusions at times lol. He becomes a different man.
If you think Jae Crowder is better at running an offense than Marcus Smart then I can't help you. You are just incorrect.
Smart could start at the 2 but next to Hayward and thomas, but you've got to stagger their minutes such that one of them is always on the court.
Marcus can't create a ton or carry an offense but he can initiate an offense and keep everyone involved. If you try to put Crowder and Rozier leading the second unit you are just gonna get an incredibly stagnant offense and a succession of isos and bad jumpers.
I'd go: thomas/brown/Hayward/Morris/horford
And the bench: smart/Rozier/Tatum/Crowder/baynes
You never do wholesale changes so the units would be staggered a bit to keep enough shooting on the floor at all times.
Keep in mind brown started for is during a crucial 10 game stretch last year where we went 9-1. Stick him on the first line where he can focus on defense and helping out on the glass and I think he fits quite well.
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Wouldn't he be our only backup point guard assuming Smart starts or does BS really see Smart as a PG? 2nd unit wont have any ball handlers. But by next year, I see trading him the best choice based off what you said. Also its interesting to see what position Hayward plays and if Crowder even starts
Smart Thomas and Hayward are the three players on the team capable of running an offense.
Any minutes with none of them on the court will be bad.
I'm just not sold that Jaylens starting next year. Marcus is the only other player capable of playing the two unless we plan on starting crowder. I seem Crowder more capable of leading the 2nd unit then Marcus. He needs to guard the top opposing guards IMO. Our 2nd unit 3pt shooting would be weak. Playoff Smart creates illusions at times lol. He becomes a different man.
If you think Jae Crowder is better at running an offense than Marcus Smart then I can't help you. You are just incorrect.
Smart could start at the 2 but next to Hayward and thomas, but you've got to stagger their minutes such that one of them is always on the court.
Marcus can't create a ton or carry an offense but he can initiate an offense and keep everyone involved. If you try to put Crowder and Rozier leading the second unit you are just gonna get an incredibly stagnant offense and a succession of isos and bad jumpers.
I'd go: thomas/brown/Hayward/Morris/horford
And the bench: smart/Rozier/Tatum/Crowder/baynes
You never do wholesale changes so the units would be staggered a bit to keep enough shooting on the floor at all times.
Keep in mind brown started for is during a crucial 10 game stretch last year where we went 9-1. Stick him on the first line where he can focus on defense and helping out on the glass and I think he fits quite well.
I agree with most thie things you said.. when I compared Crowder to Smart, I meant from a leadership Roll. At the same time Smart and Crowder in the 2nd unit would be good stuff as well. I just don't like Rozier and Smart pairing. I feel it expects Marcus Smart to carry a scoring load. Him with the ball makes Rozier extremely unaffected as he isn't a catch a shoot player,
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I would have rather traded Rozier to Orlando (if the Magic would have been down for that, anyway) for their second round picks at 33 and 35, respectively, in the draft, but we are where we are :-\. Sigh.
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Rozier is on a good contract and has 2 years left until RFA. Crowder has an even better contract, value wise, and though he makes more money Crowder is kind of redundant in our team...idk if Crowder even starts.
We won't get much back for Rozier but Crowder would fetch us something bc he has a top 5 contract in the NBA and a team that needs a SF badly could give us more value. If we did not draft Tatum and trade for Morris and sign Hayward I would not be saying this.
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Rozier and to a certain extent Jackson are our insurance for Smart and IT in a years time. Chances are that we will lose one of them next year, probably Smart. We currently have no other point guard on a cheap contract that can fill that void.
It would be just as easy to sign a vet PF to the vet min and be done with it.
Given we now have Baynes for a year I'm not understanding the need for a guylike O'Quinn anymore. The C spot is sorted:
20-25mpg Baynes
10-12mpg Zizic
11-18mpg Horford
Come playoff time Horford will soak up the minutes at C anyway
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Why would you trade someone for whom we have no replacement? Smart will be playing some 2, so he's not strictly the backup PG.
Also, it's not smart to go into negotiation with Smart when you have zero depth behind him. We don't know he will definitely be re-signed, what if a team gives him a really rich offer? You don't want to be in a position where you're pressured to overpay a role player.
Finally, his contract is very reasonable and runs two more years. O'Quinn and Vonleh will need to be re-signed in a year. How much are you going to pay them? I think Vonleh is a bust. Teams don't give up on players they just drafted unless something is wrong with them.
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Rozier helps a ton going forward with helping guard a lot of the PG in coming years. Yeah Hayward can run the point, but he's better suited for guarding 3's and bigger 2's.
While not necessarily having elite talent at the PF spot, we're pretty strong. Morris/Baynes/Yabu/Semi with Horford/Crowder/Tatum swinging for small or big line ups. Plus the Ero guy who it's too early in the mourning to remember his name. So we are 7 to 8 strong with PF's.
If anything we need guard and center bodies. A cheap C and 3 and D guard would be great for the bench. Moving AB made Rozier more valuable, and Crowder more expendable.
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No. He may be our starting PG to start the season until Thomas' hip is OK.
Besides that, he helps in defense, rebounding and scoring; when/if he learns more playmaking skills and decision taking, he may be a solid starter in a contender.
Furthermore, I can't understand how people are asking for ANOTHER PF. Horford can play there, Morris can play there, Tatum can play there, Yabusele can play there, Ojeleye can play there, Theis can play there, Crowder can occasionally play there ::) ::)
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Not unless it's a good one. He's first guard off the bench this year when Smart starts at SG.
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I would have rather traded Rozier to Orlando (if the Magic would have been down for that, anyway) for their second round picks at 33 and 35, respectively, in the draft, but we are where we are :-\. Sigh.
Candidate for worst post in Csblog history.
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I would have rather traded Rozier to Orlando (if the Magic would have been down for that, anyway) for their second round picks at 33 and 35, respectively, in the draft, but we are where we are :-\. Sigh.
Candidate for worst post in Csblog history.
You flatter me, sir ::).
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I would have rather traded Rozier to Orlando (if the Magic would have been down for that, anyway) for their second round picks at 33 and 35, respectively, in the draft, but we are where we are :-\. Sigh.
What would that have accomplished?
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I would have rather traded Rozier to Orlando (if the Magic would have been down for that, anyway) for their second round picks at 33 and 35, respectively, in the draft, but we are where we are :-\. Sigh.
What would that have accomplished?
Umm, how about giving us the ability to acquire even more talent in a loaded draft for two hundred, Alex ;D.
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Chasson Randle and Terry Rozier have very similar stats and measurables.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Terry+Rozier&player_id1_select=Terry+Rozier&y1=2017&player_id1=roziete01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Chasson+Randle&player_id2_select=Chasson+Randle&y2=2017&player_id2=randlch01&idx=players (https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Terry+Rozier&player_id1_select=Terry+Rozier&y1=2017&player_id1=roziete01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Chasson+Randle&player_id2_select=Chasson+Randle&y2=2017&player_id2=randlch01&idx=players)
Terry Rozier, Louisville: 33” no-step vert, 38” max vert, 10.88 lane agility, 3.15 ¾ sprint
Chasson Randle, Stanford: 33.5” no-step vert, 39.5” max vert, 10.61 lane agility, 3.20 ¾ sprint
http://www.nbadraft.net/2015-nba-draft-combine-athleticism-test-analysis
Chasson Randle PG 4.50% 6' 0 1/4'' 8' 0 1/2'' 178.8 6' 7''
Terry Rozier PG-SG 5.60% 6' 0 3/4'' 8' 2 1/2'' 190.2 6' 8 1/4''
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2465240-nba-combine-2015-results-day-1-measurements-highlights-and-top-prospects
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y9m7a4lm (http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y9m7a4lm)
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No need to pick up a rotation 4 like O'Quinn or Vonleh, they've already got (in no order) Morris/Yabusele/Crowder/Semi/Theis as guys who will spend time there at some point or another, and that's if we count Horford strictly as a full-time 5 with Baynes and Zizic (my guess is we'll see some big lineups with Horford and one of the pure 5s at times as well).
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There's a lot of good bigs in next years draft. No need to trade a guy like Rozier for one now.
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I would have rather traded Rozier to Orlando (if the Magic would have been down for that, anyway) for their second round picks at 33 and 35, respectively, in the draft, but we are where we are :-\. Sigh.
What would that have accomplished?
Umm, how about giving us the ability to acquire even more talent in a loaded draft for two hundred, Alex ;D.
You are underrating Rozier a lot. Did you see the playoffs?
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Does anyone here think (as I do) that this may be selling low on Rozier? TR could be on the verge of a breakout season (he's at the right age and point in his career). TR has skills and now has some experience and an off-season to strengthen his game. At this point in his contract he has every conceivable incentive to take his game up a notch. BTW, "breakout" is used here in relative terms. I consider a breakout for TR to be 20 consistent backup mpg and upping averages to 8-10 pts and 4-5 assists with tenacious defense. He'd have some good value at trade deadline if he can do this.
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Given the news about D.Jackson being waived, it seems Rozier is pretty valuable as either the backup PG or 3rd string if they play Smart as backup.
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I would have rather traded Rozier to Orlando (if the Magic would have been down for that, anyway) for their second round picks at 33 and 35, respectively, in the draft, but we are where we are :-\. Sigh.
What would that have accomplished?
Umm, how about giving us the ability to acquire even more talent in a loaded draft for two hundred, Alex ;D.
You are underrating Rozier a lot. Did you see the playoffs?
context: Beat LA believes that this team could beat the Golden State Warriors.
Absolutely, imo.
Starters:
C Daniel Ochefu
PF Jarrod Uthoff
SF Nigel Hayes
SG Malcolm Hill
PG Xavier Rathan-Mayes
Bench:
PF/C Moses Kingsley
PF Jacob Wiley
SG/SF/PF Deonte Burton (I really have no clue as to what position this dude plays, btw, lol ;D)
SG/SF Antonius Cleveland
SG Peter Jok/Wayne Selden
PG P.J. Dozier/Gary Payton II
Worth noting that Rozier for 33 and 35 is probably more value than you are likely to get for rozier but within the context of our team it doesn't make much sense.
I'd rather have 4 years of Thornwell and Bell than 2 years of Rozier in a vacuum.
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Our PFs right now are Morris and Zizic with maybe Theis also (although I see Theis as the #3 center). Yabusele may be added to this mix. I see no need to trade Rozier in the off season. I think he will play regular minutes off the bench to start the season. As Tatum and Brown develop, Rozier may play less but he remains a very useful bench combo guard.
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I don't think that Terry Rozier would return a PF that is better than what we have. I think that Horford/Crowder/Morris will do for now. If I'm looking to improve this position, it's probably going to be for a Porzingis/Aldridge/Favors type player. I don't see Terry Rozier, in isolation, returning any of these guys.
Stay the course, pick another big man in FA or the draft. Rozier is a depth guard that could be useful, but most likely will be Just Another Guy.
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Our PFs right now are Morris and Zizic with maybe Theis also
No way Zizic is a PF.
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Our PFs right now are Morris and Zizic with maybe Theis also
No way Zizic is a PF.
Yeah not really sure how one can look at a PF rotation that contains a small forward, a rookie center and Daniel Theiss and think we are set there.
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Trading rozier would leave us with smart as the only guard backup for either 1 or the 2
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I would have rather traded Rozier to Orlando (if the Magic would have been down for that, anyway) for their second round picks at 33 and 35, respectively, in the draft, but we are where we are :-\. Sigh.
What would that have accomplished?
Umm, how about giving us the ability to acquire even more talent in a loaded draft for two hundred, Alex ;D.
You are underrating Rozier a lot. Did you see the playoffs?
I did, and while he did have some good moments and nice performances, I just feel that at the end of the day he's a two guard stuck in a point guard's body who can neither shoot nor run a team, although he does rebound, so there's that ::). He's a good athlete, to be sure, but often times in watching him I come away seriously wondering about what, if anything, is going on upstairs, as he simply plays out of control all too often, imo.
I'd also venture to say that you're significantly underrating the players taken in the second round and afterwards in this year's draft, but I'm weird.