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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Eddie20 on June 16, 2017, 05:04:55 PM

Title: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Eddie20 on June 16, 2017, 05:04:55 PM
Quote
Marc Stein‏Verified account
@ESPNSteinLine 
League sources tell @ZachLowe_NBA and me that the Sixers and Celtics are in serious talks on a trade involving the No. 1 overall pick.


Quote
Zach Lowe‏Verified account
@ZachLowe_NBA 
Zach Lowe Retweeted Marc Stein
In current parameters, BOS would receive several picks and no players, sources say.  Have to think No. 3 would be involved.

Quote
Adrian Wojnarowski‏Verified account @WojVerticalNBA · 3m3 minutes ago 
Sources: Philadelphia is waiting on medical information on Markelle Fultz, but deep into talks on acquiring Boston's No. 1 overall pick.

Boston would acquire Sixers No. 3 overall pick in 2017 and package to include future first from Sixers, sources say.

Deal talks are far enough along that Fultz could be on his way to Philadelphia for a meeting Saturday, sources say.


Title: Re: C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: A Future of Stevens on June 16, 2017, 05:06:15 PM
Simmons and 3 or bust.
Title: Re: C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: hpantazo on June 16, 2017, 05:06:23 PM
Ugh. I hope at least we go for Embiid
Title: Re: C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: 86MaxwellSmart on June 16, 2017, 05:07:10 PM
Ainge wanting Jackson and Future Picks-?
Title: Re: C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Chief Macho on June 16, 2017, 05:08:49 PM
wow.  so they must like at least 3 players.   jackson could be gone at two.
Title: Re: C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: max215 on June 16, 2017, 05:09:12 PM
Woj reporting it too. I'm going to be sick.
Title: Re: C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: esel1000 on June 16, 2017, 05:10:08 PM
If DA trades it and Simmons isn't involved somehow I'll be really upset...
Title: Re: C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: vgulab on June 16, 2017, 05:10:22 PM
From what i read only picks involved, no players from either side
Title: Re: C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: csfansince60s on June 16, 2017, 05:12:10 PM
Ainge doesn't lose trades.

I am not worried.
Title: Re: C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: A Future of Stevens on June 16, 2017, 05:13:25 PM
Whelp if he is trading down to 3 with the intention of drafting Jackson, it means we aren't going for Hayward. No way Brown/Jackson/Hayward has enough minutes at the 2/3.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PickNRoll on June 16, 2017, 05:13:25 PM
Makes perfect sense.  Danny gets his guy at 3 (Jackson) and assets. 
Title: Re: C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: JSD on June 16, 2017, 05:13:40 PM
Ainge doesn't lose trades.

I am not worried.


Das it mayne
Title: Re: C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: saltlover on June 16, 2017, 05:14:32 PM
If several picks includes #3, 2018 Lakers, AND 2019 Sacramento, I can be mollified, especially if it results in us having a little more cap this summer to more easily pursue a max player.  But it needs to be that big of a package.  I'm really set on Fultz at this point.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: crimcartel on June 16, 2017, 05:15:09 PM
yeah he must be loving Jackson.. and why not get #3 and assets for Jackson.. rather than Jackson at #1 by itself...
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: A Future of Stevens on June 16, 2017, 05:15:10 PM
So basically we let the Sixers build an ultra super team going forward because.....future draft picks? My goodness
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Dino Pitino on June 16, 2017, 05:16:51 PM
Apparently the C's front office thinks Fultz is overrated. If so, I trust their judgment and I hope we score an epic motherlode of draft value from Philly.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Ilikesports17 on June 16, 2017, 05:18:12 PM
Not sure I buy it. At least we might get some real intrigue leading up to the draft!

Let the games begin!
Title: Re: C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: max215 on June 16, 2017, 05:18:51 PM
If several picks includes #3, 2018 Lakers, AND 2019 Sacramento, I can be mollified, especially if it results in us having a little more cap this summer to more easily pursue a max player.  But it needs to be that big of a package.  I'm really set on Fultz at this point.

That's not enough. What are the odds we get #1 again? Not very high. My god, I can't believe he's going to do this.
Title: Re: C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: KG Living Legend on June 16, 2017, 05:18:55 PM
Ainge doesn't lose trades.

I am not worried.




 Tp for the confidence. I wish I was that cool.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 16, 2017, 05:18:58 PM
Nice! This is what I wanted to see
Title: Re: C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on June 16, 2017, 05:19:09 PM
Woj reporting it too. I'm going to be sick.

Yea, exactly what I did not want to hear.  Jackson seems redundant with Jaylen, and if Hayward is a serious FA candidate then things become really wonky.  I get the allure of being so long and Jackson is talented, but I'm missing Fultz's shortcomings and/or lack of fit.
Title: Re: C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Roy H. on June 16, 2017, 05:19:34 PM
If several picks includes #3, 2018 Lakers, AND 2019 Sacramento, I can be mollified, especially if it results in us having a little more cap this summer to more easily pursue a max player.  But it needs to be that big of a package.  I'm really set on Fultz at this point.

That's pretty much where I am. Lottery picks are nice, but I think I'd still prefer Fultz.
Title: Re: C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Jvalin on June 16, 2017, 05:20:31 PM
Ainge doesn't lose trades.

I am not worried.
Well, he was willing to trade 4 firsts to the Hornets for #9 (Winslow).
Title: Re: C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Ilikesports17 on June 16, 2017, 05:20:57 PM
Simmons and 3 or bust.
That's where I'm at but if they offer that Lakers pick I would be willing to stay on the phone.
Title: Re: C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: max215 on June 16, 2017, 05:21:15 PM
Woj reporting it too. I'm going to be sick.

Yea, exactly what I did not want to hear.  Jackson seems redundant with Jaylen, and if Hayward is a serious FA candidate then things become really wonky.  I get the allure of being so long and Jackson is talented, but I'm missing Fultz's shortcomings and/or lack of fit.

Look, if Jackson actually has a promise at #2 and Ainge is angling for Lonzo then I'm more on board. But if Danny is doing this for Josh freaking Jackson...I'm in panic mode.
Title: Re: C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Ilikesports17 on June 16, 2017, 05:21:28 PM
Ainge doesn't lose trades.

I am not worried.
Well, two years ago he was willing to trade 4 firsts to the Hornets for #9.
Well he didn't so.....
Title: Re: C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Eddie20 on June 16, 2017, 05:21:39 PM
Woj reporting it too. I'm going to be sick.

Yea, exactly what I did not want to hear.  Jackson seems redundant with Jaylen, and if Hayward is a serious FA candidate then things become really wonky.  I get the allure of being so long and Jackson is talented, but I'm missing Fultz's shortcomings and/or lack of fit.

This actually would give us more cap room to go after Hayward or Blake.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 16, 2017, 05:21:52 PM
#3 and next years Lakers or 76ers 1st is my guess
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Dino Pitino on June 16, 2017, 05:23:25 PM
Quote
That's not enough. What are the odds we get #1 again? Not very high. My god, I can't believe he's going to do this.

Just a reminder that fans who say this now would've probably said the same thing in 1980 when Red traded the opportunity to draft the super-hyped Joe Barry Carroll at #1. Don't be that fan. Trust in Danny.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: max215 on June 16, 2017, 05:23:29 PM
Quote
Big downgrade for me from the #1 pick to #3. Was told Ainge looking for a "Brooklyn type fleece" to get deal done. Let's see if that happens

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/875825003614351361

Encouraging, I guess.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: esel1000 on June 16, 2017, 05:23:33 PM
I'm sick of future picks... it's pointless. You get picks for a chance at a guy like Fultz. If DA absolutely fleeces the Sixers then fine but if this is for #3 and one future first (even the Lakers) it's a bad, bad trade
Title: Re: C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: csfansince60s on June 16, 2017, 05:24:13 PM
If several picks includes #3, 2018 Lakers, AND 2019 Sacramento, I can be mollified, especially if it results in us having a little more cap this summer to more easily pursue a max player.  But it needs to be that big of a package.  I'm really set on Fultz at this point.

I like that package.

Throw in their second which is just before ours and their first next year and we're good.
Title: Re: C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Jvalin on June 16, 2017, 05:24:21 PM
Ainge doesn't lose trades.

I am not worried.
Well, two years ago he was willing to trade 4 firsts to the Hornets for #9.
Well he didn't so.....
According to rumors, the C's would do it but the Hornets said no.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: TA9 on June 16, 2017, 05:24:24 PM
Great, lets draft another guy who can't shoot.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: mqtcelticsfan on June 16, 2017, 05:24:41 PM
No, no, no, no, no. How many Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.ing picks do we need? We got the exact result that a number of picks is designed to get you already.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: JOMVP on June 16, 2017, 05:24:53 PM
I am gonna be sick hearing this stuff. Ainge will make the biggest mistake of his life if he doesnt just pick Fultz and be done with it.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: max215 on June 16, 2017, 05:24:55 PM
Quote
That's not enough. What are the odds we get #1 again? Not very high. My god, I can't believe he's going to do this.

Just a reminder that fans who say this now would've probably said the same thing in 1980 when Red traded the opportunity to draft the super-hyped Joe Barry Carroll at #1. Don't be that fan. Trust in Danny.

I'm saying this because I've seen all of these guys play. Fultz better have spaghetti for knees or Danny better be getting a Brooklyn-level fleecing.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Kuberski33 on June 16, 2017, 05:25:10 PM
So basically we let the Sixers build an ultra super team going forward because.....future draft picks? My goodness
I doubt it because C's have to compete with Sixers moving forward.  Have a feeling this leaked out because Danny's trying to up the offer for #1 to see if any better offers come in.
Title: Re: C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on June 16, 2017, 05:25:18 PM
Woj reporting it too. I'm going to be sick.

Yea, exactly what I did not want to hear.  Jackson seems redundant with Jaylen, and if Hayward is a serious FA candidate then things become really wonky.  I get the allure of being so long and Jackson is talented, but I'm missing Fultz's shortcomings and/or lack of fit.

This actually would give us more cap room to go after Hayward or Blake.

Although it would help in that aspect, it could also create issues from a personnel standpoint.  I see Jaylen as more of a 3 at this point, though, while others envision him at the 2.  For that to happen, I think he's going to have to develop quite a bit to look like Butler did early on (but at age 23). 
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: dwlefty13 on June 16, 2017, 05:25:54 PM
I guess Ainge caught cold feet.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PhoSita on June 16, 2017, 05:26:34 PM
I may actually vomit.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: rondohondo on June 16, 2017, 05:27:19 PM
What if Danny is looking to trade the#3 overall for PG13 , while picking up another good pick from philly?

Maybe indy loves Jackson?
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: CELTICSofBOSTON on June 16, 2017, 05:27:31 PM
According to sources.. Markelle Fultz was supposed to have one last meeting with Boston tomorrow.  Now, he is headed to Philly.

Very concerning.

I'd only consider Ben Simmons + #3
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Roy H. on June 16, 2017, 05:27:45 PM
The funniest thing is that the deal doesn't include Saric.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: esel1000 on June 16, 2017, 05:28:08 PM
Quote
That's not enough. What are the odds we get #1 again? Not very high. My god, I can't believe he's going to do this.

Just a reminder that fans who say this now would've probably said the same thing in 1980 when Red traded the opportunity to draft the super-hyped Joe Barry Carroll at #1. Don't be that fan. Trust in Danny.

I'm saying this because I've seen all of these guys play. Fultz better have spaghetti for knees or Danny better be getting a Brooklyn-level fleecing.

I'm serious, Simmons needs to be part of it. Simmons, #3, future first you have to do. Outside of something ridiculous like that it's a bad idea
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: GratefulCs on June 16, 2017, 05:28:09 PM
Quote
That's not enough. What are the odds we get #1 again? Not very high. My god, I can't believe he's going to do this.

Just a reminder that fans who say this now would've probably said the same thing in 1980 when Red traded the opportunity to draft the super-hyped Joe Barry Carroll at #1. Don't be that fan. Trust in Danny.
he got us this far

no need to doubt him
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PhoSita on June 16, 2017, 05:28:14 PM
I'm so sick of future draft picks.

We get the number one pick, finally, in a draft with a consensus top guy, and we look to trade down?

Ugh.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: CELTICSofBOSTON on June 16, 2017, 05:28:48 PM
Darn.

https://twitter.com/draftexpress/status/875824105743896578
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 16, 2017, 05:29:30 PM
Zach Lowe: In current parameters, BOS would receive several picks and no players, sources say. Have to think No. 3 would be involved. – via Twitter ZachLowe_NBA
 Draft, Trade, Boston Celtics, Philadelphia 76ers
 

Adrian Wojnarowski: Sources: Philadelphia is waiting on medical information on Markelle Fultz, but deep into talks on acquiring Boston’s No. 1 overall pick
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: mrceltics2013 on June 16, 2017, 05:29:38 PM
You guys are looking at this all wrong lol. I feel better trading the #3 pick for someone like butler than the #1. So basically we would be trading #1 for #3, lakers 2018, sac 2019, right to swap with prolly 2010 and butler. Uhhhh we winning or no? Lol

Or get it and draft taytum and sign Hayward? Like so many options I like it.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Jvalin on June 16, 2017, 05:29:40 PM
Quote
Big downgrade for me from the #1 pick to #3. Was told Ainge looking for a "Brooklyn type fleece" to get deal done. Let's see if that happens

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/875825003614351361

Encouraging, I guess.
Go get them Danny!

#1 for #3 + Lakers 2018 + Sacramento 2019 + one more first

(assuming no players are involved)
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Kuberski33 on June 16, 2017, 05:29:53 PM
Darn.

https://twitter.com/draftexpress/status/875824105743896578
Celtics still hold all the cards.  Fultz can meet with anyone he wants and C's can still take him.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: max215 on June 16, 2017, 05:30:45 PM
More encouraging news:

Quote
Also was told that Josh Jackson's workout in LA "did not go well at all." Brought high energy but struggled with his shooting and handle.

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/875821195563847683
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: konkmv on June 16, 2017, 05:31:09 PM
I lkke those leaked stories....eveyone ia using the media to increase or lower the value of picks....if a nets offer comes he will take it... if not we take fultz
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 16, 2017, 05:31:22 PM
Guessing

76ers - Fultz
Lakers - Ball
Celtics - Jackson

Or
Lakers - Jackson
Celtics - Ball
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on June 16, 2017, 05:31:43 PM
The funniest thing is that the deal doesn't include Saric.

I can almost tolerate losing Fultz over this fact.

More encouraging news:

Quote
Also was told that Josh Jackson's workout in LA "did not go well at all." Brought high energy but struggled with his shooting and handle.

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/875821195563847683

Yikes.  Haven't heard much about Tatum lately.  If Ball is the target, CelticsBlog may collapse.
Title: Re: C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: apc on June 16, 2017, 05:31:57 PM
From what i read only picks involved, no players from either side
Technically Simons is a pick , not a player yet. Right?
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Kuberski33 on June 16, 2017, 05:31:58 PM
Zach Lowe: In current parameters, BOS would receive several picks and no players, sources say. Have to think No. 3 would be involved. – via Twitter ZachLowe_NBA
 Draft, Trade, Boston Celtics, Philadelphia 76ers

That it's just picks makes me think it's a smoke screen.  They don't need more picks and Philly figures to improve quite a bit next season. 
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: apc on June 16, 2017, 05:33:16 PM
Did we even had any workouts?? Other than Fultz ?
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: GratefulCs on June 16, 2017, 05:33:20 PM
the only thing that concerns me is that i could live with drafting fultz and him being a bust


but i don't know if i could live with passing up fultz if he becomes a superstar
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: max215 on June 16, 2017, 05:34:15 PM
The funniest thing is that the deal doesn't include Saric.

I can almost tolerate losing Fultz over this fact.

More encouraging news:

Quote
Also was told that Josh Jackson's workout in LA "did not go well at all." Brought high energy but struggled with his shooting and handle.

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/875821195563847683

Yikes.  Haven't heard much about Tatum lately.  If Ball is the target, CelticsBlog may collapse.

I, for one, really like Ball. But, he's not Markelle Fultz. He's just not. And ditto on not including Saric. Even in times of extreme chaos and sadness, I will find time to pour water on the Saric fire.
Title: Re: C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Roy H. on June 16, 2017, 05:34:20 PM
From what i read only picks involved, no players from either side
Technically Simons is a pick , not a player yet. Right?

He's signed a contract and is on the roster, so he's a player.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 16, 2017, 05:34:25 PM
Zach Lowe: In current parameters, BOS would receive several picks and no players, sources say. Have to think No. 3 would be involved. – via Twitter ZachLowe_NBA
 Draft, Trade, Boston Celtics, Philadelphia 76ers

That it's just picks makes me think it's a smoke screen.  They don't need more picks and Philly figures to improve quite a bit next season.

Frugal danny saves money(cap space), plus gets a future 76ers or lakers pick. Plus the guy he likes at 3
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PhoSita on June 16, 2017, 05:35:55 PM
Danny is addicted to future draft picks.

We need to stage an intervention, guys.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: JOMVP on June 16, 2017, 05:35:57 PM
Does Danny read this blog. Hear me YELL at you through my phone AINGE. YOU WON THE DEAL ALREADY. You fleeced the Nets to get the number 1 pick with a chance at a transcendant player in Markelle Fultz. There is literally NO REASON to do this.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: tyrone biggums on June 16, 2017, 05:37:38 PM
More encouraging news:

Quote
Also was told that Josh Jackson's workout in LA "did not go well at all." Brought high energy but struggled with his shooting and handle.

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/875821195563847683

Can't wait to watch him Crowder and Smart brick shots and free throws and not rebound.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: max215 on June 16, 2017, 05:37:47 PM
Danny is addicted to future draft picks.

We need to stage an intervention, guys.

"Intervention" what we're calling it these days? You bring the donuts, I'll bring the pitchforks.
Title: Re: C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: SparzWizard on June 16, 2017, 05:37:55 PM
Ainge doesn't lose trades.

I am not worried.

So he traded PP34 for BKN 17 only to get it traded for a #3 pick and several other picks. Why.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PhoSita on June 16, 2017, 05:38:22 PM
Hey, you know, when you could draft a James Harden type prospect but somebody offers you Justise Winslow redux plus potential future lottery picks, you just have to say yes.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: SparzWizard on June 16, 2017, 05:38:30 PM
Better start the "Fire Danny" threads again and I am being serious if he is dealing the #1 pick for several picks.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: jpotter33 on June 16, 2017, 05:38:46 PM
The only way a trade with Philly makes sense is either:

A) #1 + Bradley for Simmons and #3. But it's widely being reported that no players would be involved at this point.

B) Danny plans on using the 3rd pick to trade for a Butler or George type, which is probably more palatable than trading the first pick for him.

I'd be okay with A, but I'd much rather have Fultz than trying to go that route with B.

Of course, there's always the possibility that Danny is for whatever reason viewing future picks more heavily than this one, which makes no sense whatsoever, or that Fultz's knees didn't come back clean. But in that case, wouldn't Philly also see this red flag and not want Fultz in that case?

But, my God, if he does this for no other reason than wanting freaking Jackson over Fultz, then I think Ainge might've ran his course here.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PhoSita on June 16, 2017, 05:39:00 PM
More encouraging news:

Quote
Also was told that Josh Jackson's workout in LA "did not go well at all." Brought high energy but struggled with his shooting and handle.

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/875821195563847683

Can't wait to watch him Crowder and Smart brick shots and free throws and not rebound.

Who needs guy that are good at putting the ball in the net?

We have Isaiah.  He's gonna play for another fifteen years, right?
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: celticsclay on June 16, 2017, 05:39:13 PM
Does Danny read this blog. Hear me YELL at you through my phone AINGE. YOU WON THE DEAL ALREADY. You fleeced the Nets to get the number 1 pick with a chance at a transcendant player in Markelle Fultz. There is literally NO REASON to do this.

Yeah. I also don't like trading with Philly. They have gummed up their process enough losing Noel for nothing and having Okafor bust and not getting the Lakers pick this year (or the number 1 pick), now we want to help them?
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PhoSita on June 16, 2017, 05:39:48 PM

B) Danny plans on using the 3rd pick to trade for a Butler or George type, which is probably more palatable than trading the first pick for him.


Give me Fultz over Butler / George plus future picks.  All the way.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: KGBirdBias on June 16, 2017, 05:40:34 PM
Quote
That's not enough. What are the odds we get #1 again? Not very high. My god, I can't believe he's going to do this.

Just a reminder that fans who say this now would've probably said the same thing in 1980 when Red traded the opportunity to draft the super-hyped Joe Barry Carroll at #1. Don't be that fan. Trust in Danny.

I like Ainge in trades and I think making this deal is good. I was never sold on Fultz. I think he can fleece the Sixers. The Sixers will still be in lottery next year. Yes, this does remind me of Auerbach move in getting McHale and Parish.

If they were sold on Fultz they wouldn't be working out all these guys.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 16, 2017, 05:40:52 PM
Does Danny read this blog. Hear me YELL at you through my phone AINGE. YOU WON THE DEAL ALREADY. You fleeced the Nets to get the number 1 pick with a chance at a transcendant player in Markelle Fultz. There is literally NO REASON to do this.

Lol he is addicted ...he needs help lol
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: jpotter33 on June 16, 2017, 05:41:46 PM

B) Danny plans on using the 3rd pick to trade for a Butler or George type, which is probably more palatable than trading the first pick for him.


Give me Fultz over Butler / George plus future picks.  All the way.

Same here, especially if there's no certainty that George would resign.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: mef730 on June 16, 2017, 05:42:22 PM
All, stop worrying. Seriously, no need to panic.

Since we're all speculating here, I'm leaning very strongly toward, "Lots of smoke, no fire."

It's important to remember one thing: Everything we hear in the media is exactly what Danny wants us to hear. Full stop. Danny is a master at playing the media.

I still think we're keeping #1 but, if DA is seriously thinking about trading, he must float a rumor to drive up the value of the pick. And if the pick is going to Philly, which I highly doubt, it's going to be for this year's #3 and at least two of the following: Sixers 18, Lakers 18 and Sac 19.

Remember, you're living in The Matrix and Danny's the oracle. He's telling people exactly what he wants them to hear (or what they need to hear). Have a cookie.

Mike
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Kuberski33 on June 16, 2017, 05:42:40 PM
Personally I would have been surprised if rumors like this didn't start...right about now.  Stay tuned...expect oh about another week of this
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Chief Macho on June 16, 2017, 05:42:53 PM
let's not pretend anyone knows what danny is doing..  i will be bummed if this doesnt yield us yet another player.   simmons or at least okafur and picks.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: A Future of Stevens on June 16, 2017, 05:43:15 PM
Like I seriously don't get it. If it is something nuts like 3, both 2018 picks next year AND sacs 2019, I can't blame him. If it's 3 and Sixers 18, who the hell cares? I don't want Jackson, AAAAAAAND the 10th overall pick in the draft next year.

This team needs a secondary scorer who can turn into so much more. Jackson could be really good. Or he could struggle to put the ball in the bucket, while we all rave about his defensive prowess in 4 years.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: KGBirdBias on June 16, 2017, 05:43:43 PM
Ainge is trying to get a #3 pick this year AND he will have TWO lottery picks next year in a stacked draft.

2017 #3
2018 #1 Nets
2018 #1 Lakers

The Lakers will be in the lottery.

I think you have to do it.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: JohnP on June 16, 2017, 05:43:44 PM
When its all said and done we will probably end up with butler or george and future picks for the #1...Danny knows what he is doing.  When and if the trade happens there will already be another trade in place IMO.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: bknova on June 16, 2017, 05:44:05 PM
First off don't trade the [dang] pick. Take Fultz.  This kid's going to be great.  But god don't trade him to Philly. They're in our division.  Don't give Philly the ammo.  Terrible.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: cousytoheinsohn on June 16, 2017, 05:44:17 PM
The funniest thing is that the deal doesn't include Saric.

I can almost tolerate losing Fultz over this fact.

More encouraging news:

Quote
Also was told that Josh Jackson's workout in LA "did not go well at all." Brought high energy but struggled with his shooting and handle.

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/875821195563847683

Yikes.  Haven't heard much about Tatum lately.  If Ball is the target, CelticsBlog may collapse.

Or burst into flames, in effect, burning itself in effigy. Or something.

Things sure are getting interesting, aren't they? :)
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: A Future of Stevens on June 16, 2017, 05:44:57 PM
Quote
That's not enough. What are the odds we get #1 again? Not very high. My god, I can't believe he's going to do this.

Just a reminder that fans who say this now would've probably said the same thing in 1980 when Red traded the opportunity to draft the super-hyped Joe Barry Carroll at #1. Don't be that fan. Trust in Danny.

I like Ainge in trades and I think making this deal is good. I was never sold on Fultz. I think he can fleece the Sixers. The Sixers will still be in lottery next year. Yes, this does remind me of Auerbach move in getting McHale and Parish.

If they were sold on Fultz they wouldn't be working out all these guys.

But that's the thing. We have only worked out what....DSJ and Isaac.....
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PhoSita on June 16, 2017, 05:45:56 PM
If teams are desperate to trade up for the number one, that's a sign.  Don't trade it.  Keep the franchise player.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: max215 on June 16, 2017, 05:45:56 PM
This better end with us getting AD, Towns, or Giannis or 3, 2018 Philly, 2018 Lakers, 2019 Sacramento, and some other stuff.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PhoSita on June 16, 2017, 05:46:16 PM
Ainge is trying to get a #3 pick this year AND he will have TWO lottery picks next year in a stacked draft.

2017 #3
2018 #1 Nets
2018 #1 Lakers

The Lakers will be in the lottery.

I think you have to do it.

Enough with the future picks.  For goodness sake.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: max215 on June 16, 2017, 05:47:22 PM
Ainge is trying to get a #3 pick this year AND he will have TWO lottery picks next year in a stacked draft.

2017 #3
2018 #1 Nets
2018 #1 Lakers

The Lakers will be in the lottery.

I think you have to do it.

Next year's draft is not nearly as stacked as this year's. There are maybe two players that would be in the top 6-7 this year.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Boris Badenov on June 16, 2017, 05:47:22 PM
If you combine this with the other news that the Lakers are "in love" with Fultz and trying to trade up, it seems like Danny is doing the right thing in trying to spark a bidding war.

Talk about being in the catbird seat.

Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: GetLucky on June 16, 2017, 05:47:22 PM
Is Danny going all-in? Trading down for 3 and Lakers' pick (probably trying to get a future Sixers' pick as well) then flipping #3 for a star?
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PhoSita on June 16, 2017, 05:48:20 PM
Seriously, though, how could you say no to more gritty role players who can't shoot and more future draft picks to talk about trading for a star someday?

Surely that's better than actually taking your shot at a franchise player.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 16, 2017, 05:48:53 PM
The funniest thing is that the deal doesn't include Saric.

I can almost tolerate losing Fultz over this fact.

More encouraging news:

Quote
Also was told that Josh Jackson's workout in LA "did not go well at all." Brought high energy but struggled with his shooting and handle.

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/875821195563847683

Yikes.  Haven't heard much about Tatum lately.  If Ball is the target, CelticsBlog may collapse.

Could be Tatum.

Danny will be getting a good player at 3 regardless...

Make the Lakers sweat at #2 instead

Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PhoSita on June 16, 2017, 05:50:45 PM
If you combine this with the other news that the Lakers are "in love" with Fultz and trying to trade up, it seems like Danny is doing the right thing in trying to spark a bidding war.

Talk about being in the catbird seat.

I just don't have any interest in what those teams are likely to offer, though.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: CelticsFan166 on June 16, 2017, 05:50:46 PM
Seriously, though, how could you say no to more gritty role players who can't shoot and more future draft picks to talk about trading for a star someday?

Surely that's better than actually taking your shot at a franchise player.
My thoughts exactly. It's always seemed too good to be true to have a prospect like Fultz on the team. If Danny does this I don't know if I could ever forgive him.

Horrible.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: mctyson on June 16, 2017, 05:51:01 PM
No, no, no, no, no. How many ****ing picks do we need? We got the exact result that a number of picks is designed to get you already.

A lot so we can trade for Anthony Davis.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: csfansince60s on June 16, 2017, 05:51:02 PM
Did we even had any workouts?? Other than Fultz ?

DSJ this week.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 16, 2017, 05:52:15 PM
Seriously, though, how could you say no to more gritty role players who can't shoot and more future draft picks to talk about trading for a star someday?

Surely that's better than actually taking your shot at a franchise player.

Stop whinning Pho... Trust Danny

Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PhoSita on June 16, 2017, 05:52:45 PM
Why even bother coveting picks in trades if when you actually get the consensus #1 pick in a strong draft you go ahead and trade it away?

If I have to watch Fultz be a perennial All-Star on the Sixers or Lakers for a decade I'm gonna be ill.  Chronically ill.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: jpotter33 on June 16, 2017, 05:53:58 PM
https://twitter.com/CelticsDirect/status/875830467517460481?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fboston-celtics

Quote
The Celtics could also be acquiring more first-round picks to deal for Jimmy Butler, per league source.

No idea who the source is, but that has to be the gameplan for this 76ers trade, if there's anything to it at all, which I'm still not convinced of.

Perhaps Danny wants Porter AND Ayton next year, or he's just irrationally addicted to future picks after the Brooklyn deal.

I swear to Jeebus, I might die inside if I see Fultz blossom into a superstar in Philly.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: max215 on June 16, 2017, 05:53:58 PM
Quote
Sense from involved parties in Boston-Philly talks is Cs are all in. Checking physicals, poised to give No. 1 for package centered on No. 3

https://twitter.com/sam_amick/status/875833518600855552

Amick is rock solid. This is happening.

Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: jpotter33 on June 16, 2017, 05:56:43 PM
Quote
Sense from involved parties in Boston-Philly talks is Cs are all in. Checking physicals, poised to give No. 1 for package centered on No. 3

https://twitter.com/sam_amick/status/875833518600855552

Amick is rock solid. This is happening.

https://twitter.com/ForeverGreen_/status/875833013543858181?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fboston-celtics

Quote
The Celtics are trying to get multiple picks in order to trade for Jimmy Butler
(@AdamZagoria)

So, if this was true, he'd probably have number 3 this year and then two probable top-5 picks (Brooklyn and LA) next year in the draft. How many picks would Butler cost? I can't imagine he costs more than number 3 this year and something like Rozier, along with the matching salary.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: KGBirdBias on June 16, 2017, 05:57:37 PM
If Ainge is making this trade, he's got a deal for Butler coming to Celtics with one of those picks.

If he can get #3, Butler and then still sign Hayward...that's a killer deal.

Give the Bulls the Lakers 2018 #1 and a player.

IT
Butler
Hayward
FA forward
Horford

Smart
Brown\Tatum
Jackson\Crowder
Yabu
Zizic

THAT is a stacked team.


Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: JohnP on June 16, 2017, 05:57:58 PM
No, no, no, no, no. How many ****ing picks do we need? We got the exact result that a number of picks is designed to get you already.

A lot so we can trade for Anthony Davis.


The more i think about it i think this is the plan.   Dont think the pelicans will trade him now but Danny wants the assets to be able to get him in the next year or two.  Think Danny believes that even with george/butler and hayward we will not beat Golden St but in 2 or 3 years with what we have and someone like AD we can have a realistic chance.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: celticsclay on June 16, 2017, 05:58:01 PM
Why even bother coveting picks in trades if when you actually get the consensus #1 pick in a strong draft you go ahead and trade it away?

If I have to watch Fultz be a perennial All-Star on the Sixers or Lakers for a decade I'm gonna be ill.  Chronically ill.

I am a little surprised you are this upset without even knowing the details of the talks. I am pretty into Fultz myself. If we end up with a team of IT, Bradley, Butler, Blake, Horford with Bench of Brown, Crowder and vets is that bad? I think that team can win the championship. 4 perennial all-stars....
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: max215 on June 16, 2017, 05:58:18 PM
Quote
Sense from involved parties in Boston-Philly talks is Cs are all in. Checking physicals, poised to give No. 1 for package centered on No. 3

https://twitter.com/sam_amick/status/875833518600855552

Amick is rock solid. This is happening.

https://twitter.com/ForeverGreen_/status/875833013543858181?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fboston-celtics

Quote
The Celtics are trying to get multiple picks in order to trade for Jimmy Butler
(@AdamZagoria)

So, if this was true, he'd probably have number 3 this year and then two probable top-5 picks (Brooklyn and LA) next year in the draft. How many picks would Butler cost? I can't imagine he costs more than number 3 this year and something like Rozier, along with the matching salary.

Isaiah-Butler-Horford isn't beating Golden State. They're not even beating Cleveland! Add Hayward to that and we probably take Cleveland to 7, maybe even win...and go on to get swept by the Warriors.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PhoSita on June 16, 2017, 05:58:54 PM
Let's hang a banner in the rafters for "Future Draft Picks."

Retire that guy's number.  He's the GOAT.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PickNRoll on June 16, 2017, 05:58:56 PM
The reason Danny would make the trade at all is because Jackson projects as the better pro. Plenty of flashy scorers come and go in the league.  It's the elite 2-way wing players that are winning finals MVP every year. 
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Vox_Populi on June 16, 2017, 05:59:16 PM
Well, I'd rather Ainge invariably take Josh Jackson at three than at no.1
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PhoSita on June 16, 2017, 06:00:10 PM
Why even bother coveting picks in trades if when you actually get the consensus #1 pick in a strong draft you go ahead and trade it away?

If I have to watch Fultz be a perennial All-Star on the Sixers or Lakers for a decade I'm gonna be ill.  Chronically ill.

I am a little surprised you are this upset without even knowing the details of the talks. I am pretty into Fultz myself. If we end up with a team of IT, Bradley, Butler, Blake, Horford with Bench of Brown, Crowder and vets is that bad? I think that team can win the championship. 4 perennial all-stars....

(a) I don't think Butler is worth the top pick, let alone that plus future picks and whatever players we'd need to match salary.

(b) I don't like the spacing on that team, or the injury risk.  I don't think that team is a sure thing to beat Cleveland, let alone compete with GS.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: celticsclay on June 16, 2017, 06:00:22 PM
Quote
Sense from involved parties in Boston-Philly talks is Cs are all in. Checking physicals, poised to give No. 1 for package centered on No. 3

https://twitter.com/sam_amick/status/875833518600855552

Amick is rock solid. This is happening.

https://twitter.com/ForeverGreen_/status/875833013543858181?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fboston-celtics

Quote
The Celtics are trying to get multiple picks in order to trade for Jimmy Butler
(@AdamZagoria)

So, if this was true, he'd probably have number 3 this year and then two probable top-5 picks (Brooklyn and LA) next year in the draft. How many picks would Butler cost? I can't imagine he costs more than number 3 this year and something like Rozier, along with the matching salary.

Isaiah-Butler-Horford isn't beating Golden State. They're not even beating Cleveland! Add Hayward to that and we probably take Cleveland to 7, maybe even win...and go on to get swept by the Warriors.

What about IT, Bradley, Butler, Blake, Horford?
That team would crush Cleveland in my opinion. Especially given it would also probably have a better bench and better coaching.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PhoSita on June 16, 2017, 06:01:13 PM
The reason Danny would make the trade at all is because Jackson projects as the better pro. Plenty of flashy scorers come and go in the league.  It's the elite 2-way wing players that are winning finals MVP every year.

there's little evidence that Jackson is going to be elite on either end, though.

he's a nice physical prospect with two way potential, but his scoring isn't particularly efficient and he's not an amazing defender.

you know what is a guaranteed value in today's league?  elite pick and roll ball handlers who can score from anywhere.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: dwlefty13 on June 16, 2017, 06:01:32 PM
https://twitter.com/CelticsDirect/status/875830467517460481?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fboston-celtics

Quote
The Celtics could also be acquiring more first-round picks to deal for Jimmy Butler, per league source.

No idea who the source is, but that has to be the gameplan for this 76ers trade, if there's anything to it at all, which I'm still not convinced of.

Perhaps Danny wants Porter AND Ayton next year, or he's just irrationally addicted to future picks after the Brooklyn deal.

I swear to Jeebus, I might die inside if I see Fultz blossom into a superstar in Philly.

I don't see what is so great about Jimmy Butler. All he is is the combination of Crowder, Bradley, and Smart put into one. He is NOT a great shooter, streaky with scoring, yes he is a second option that compliments IT but he does not move the needle to championship status. Would rather continue developing youth with Fultz than acquire Butler, personally.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: celticsclay on June 16, 2017, 06:02:35 PM
Why even bother coveting picks in trades if when you actually get the consensus #1 pick in a strong draft you go ahead and trade it away?

If I have to watch Fultz be a perennial All-Star on the Sixers or Lakers for a decade I'm gonna be ill.  Chronically ill.

I am a little surprised you are this upset without even knowing the details of the talks. I am pretty into Fultz myself. If we end up with a team of IT, Bradley, Butler, Blake, Horford with Bench of Brown, Crowder and vets is that bad? I think that team can win the championship. 4 perennial all-stars....

(a) I don't think Butler is worth the top pick, let alone that plus future picks and whatever players we'd need to match salary.

(b) I don't like the spacing on that team, or the injury risk.  I don't think that team is a sure thing to beat Cleveland, let alone compete with GS.

How is the spacing a risk?
Horford obviously spaces the floor
Bradley and IT are very good shooters
Butler Shoots 37% from 3
Blake doesn't have 3 range really, but has pretty far range.

Assuming you still have Smart and Crowder on the bench that team is very competitive with Golden State in my opinion.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: mctyson on June 16, 2017, 06:02:55 PM
If they don't rate Fultz much higher than Jackson, they have to trade down.  That is an easy decision.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: max215 on June 16, 2017, 06:03:16 PM
Quote
Sense from involved parties in Boston-Philly talks is Cs are all in. Checking physicals, poised to give No. 1 for package centered on No. 3

https://twitter.com/sam_amick/status/875833518600855552

Amick is rock solid. This is happening.

https://twitter.com/ForeverGreen_/status/875833013543858181?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fboston-celtics

Quote
The Celtics are trying to get multiple picks in order to trade for Jimmy Butler
(@AdamZagoria)

So, if this was true, he'd probably have number 3 this year and then two probable top-5 picks (Brooklyn and LA) next year in the draft. How many picks would Butler cost? I can't imagine he costs more than number 3 this year and something like Rozier, along with the matching salary.

Isaiah-Butler-Horford isn't beating Golden State. They're not even beating Cleveland! Add Hayward to that and we probably take Cleveland to 7, maybe even win...and go on to get swept by the Warriors.

What about IT, Bradley, Butler, Blake, Horford?
That team would crush Cleveland in my opinion. Especially given it would also probably have a better bench and better coaching.

Maybe, MAYBE they take Cleveland. They get stomped by the Warriors.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PhoSita on June 16, 2017, 06:03:50 PM
When you can give up the next ten years for a chance at getting smashed in the Finals by the Warriors at some point in the next 3-4 years, you gotta do it.

You gotta do it.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: max215 on June 16, 2017, 06:04:00 PM
If they don't rate Fultz much higher than Jackson, they have to trade down.  That is an easy decision.

If they don't rate Fultz much higher than everyone else, that is itself the problem.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Boris Badenov on June 16, 2017, 06:04:00 PM
Impossible to even think about this without knowing what we would get back.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PhoSita on June 16, 2017, 06:05:23 PM
Why even bother coveting picks in trades if when you actually get the consensus #1 pick in a strong draft you go ahead and trade it away?

If I have to watch Fultz be a perennial All-Star on the Sixers or Lakers for a decade I'm gonna be ill.  Chronically ill.

I am a little surprised you are this upset without even knowing the details of the talks. I am pretty into Fultz myself. If we end up with a team of IT, Bradley, Butler, Blake, Horford with Bench of Brown, Crowder and vets is that bad? I think that team can win the championship. 4 perennial all-stars....

(a) I don't think Butler is worth the top pick, let alone that plus future picks and whatever players we'd need to match salary.

(b) I don't like the spacing on that team, or the injury risk.  I don't think that team is a sure thing to beat Cleveland, let alone compete with GS.

How is the spacing a risk?
Horford obviously spaces the floor
Bradley and IT are very good shooters
Butler Shoots 37% from 3
Blake doesn't have 3 range really, but has pretty far range.

Assuming you still have Smart and Crowder on the bench that team is very competitive with Golden State in my opinion.

I don't think Butler is that great a shooter, and I don't trust Blake's spacing either.

Too many of those guys are best with the ball.


I'd much rather have a young core of Fultz, Brown, Smart, etc and see what we can do in free agency to buttress Thomas, Crowder, Horford in the present.

No need to trade away a consensus #1 pick just for a shot at getting killed by the Warriors instead of the Cavs.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Vox_Populi on June 16, 2017, 06:06:35 PM
If they don't rate Fultz much higher than Jackson, they have to trade down.  That is an easy decision.

If they don't rate Fultz much higher than everyone else, that is itself the problem.
I knew Ainge would do something like this. And I don't understand it either. You rarely have a draft as talented as this one....that still has a consensus no. 1 pick.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PickNRoll on June 16, 2017, 06:06:36 PM
The reason Danny would make the trade at all is because Jackson projects as the better pro. Plenty of flashy scorers come and go in the league.  It's the elite 2-way wing players that are winning finals MVP every year.

there's little evidence that Jackson is going to be elite on either end, though.

he's a nice physical prospect with two way potential, but his scoring isn't particularly efficient and he's not an amazing defender.

you know what is a guaranteed value in today's league?  elite pick and roll ball handlers who can score from anywhere.
Agree to disagree I guess.  Incredible athlete.  Far more explosive than Fultz. Elite defender already. Rebounds his position very well.  Guards 2-3 positions on D, minimum.  Good vision and passing.  Very smart kid, check out his interviews.  Shot a higher % on 3's than fultz over the second half of the year.  The worst you can say is that the top 3 picks are very close.  I've had Jackson #1 for a while.  I could see taking ball ahead of fultz as well.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: mef730 on June 16, 2017, 06:06:43 PM
Impossible to even think about this without knowing what we would get back.

ESPN just said it is #3 and one other pick. Now, that and $4 will get you a cup of coffee but, if that does turn out to be true, I'll be sick.

Mike
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Bobshot on June 16, 2017, 06:07:50 PM
Those folks saying Ainge is parlaying this trade into a deal for a Davis or Butler had better be right. Future picks are unknowns in the NBA lottery system.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: max215 on June 16, 2017, 06:08:30 PM
If they don't rate Fultz much higher than Jackson, they have to trade down.  That is an easy decision.

If they don't rate Fultz much higher than everyone else, that is itself the problem.
I knew Ainge would do something like this. And I don't understand it either. You rarely have a draft as talented as this one....that still has a consensus no. 1 pick.

The goal of asset collection is to get Markelle Fultz. This is what we've been waiting for. Ainge is going to throw it away. I feel sick.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: jpotter33 on June 16, 2017, 06:08:35 PM
Quote
Sense from involved parties in Boston-Philly talks is Cs are all in. Checking physicals, poised to give No. 1 for package centered on No. 3

https://twitter.com/sam_amick/status/875833518600855552

Amick is rock solid. This is happening.

https://twitter.com/ForeverGreen_/status/875833013543858181?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fboston-celtics

Quote
The Celtics are trying to get multiple picks in order to trade for Jimmy Butler
(@AdamZagoria)

So, if this was true, he'd probably have number 3 this year and then two probable top-5 picks (Brooklyn and LA) next year in the draft. How many picks would Butler cost? I can't imagine he costs more than number 3 this year and something like Rozier, along with the matching salary.

Isaiah-Butler-Horford isn't beating Golden State. They're not even beating Cleveland! Add Hayward to that and we probably take Cleveland to 7, maybe even win...and go on to get swept by the Warriors.

I'm not a fan of that plan either, just trying to make sense of the logic being used here. I think Fultz + Hayward or Griffin is the best bet of seriously competing now while not mortgaging our future.

But for argument's sake:

Trade #1 for #3 and 2018 Lakers pick;

(In whatever order needed to work in the cap) sign Griffin and trade for Butler with some combination of trading AB, Rozier, Jackson, and the #3 pick;

Lineup of:

PG: IT, Smart
SG: Butler, Green (vet minimum)
SF: Crowder, Brown
PF: Griffin, ? (perhaps O'Quinn in a trade from NY)
C: Horford, Zizic

I think that group has a legitimate shot of overthrowing both Cleveland and GS, as long as we stay healthy. I think Butler can only command something like #3, Bradley, and Rozier in terms of value, so that'd leave us with two probable top-5 picks in next year's draft. If nothing else, we still have the Memphis and Clippers pick to sweeten the pot.

Of course, how affordable that group is going forward is sketchy, but I think they have a legitimate shot of winning it all while still not technically mortgaging our future by keeping two top-5 picks next year.

Still, though, unless Fultz's knees are sketchy, I prefer taking him and signing one of Hayward or Griffin this summer.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PickNRoll on June 16, 2017, 06:09:35 PM
If they don't rate Fultz much higher than Jackson, they have to trade down.  That is an easy decision.

If they don't rate Fultz much higher than everyone else, that is itself the problem.
I knew Ainge would do something like this. And I don't understand it either. You rarely have a draft as talented as this one....that still has a consensus no. 1 pick.
Not a concensus.  Internet concensus because of Draftexpress maybe.  Danny has seen all these kids in person.  Hundreds of games.  He doesn't care about internet concensus.  Many GM's do not have Fultz #1 reportedly. 
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: celticsclay on June 16, 2017, 06:10:18 PM
Why even bother coveting picks in trades if when you actually get the consensus #1 pick in a strong draft you go ahead and trade it away?

If I have to watch Fultz be a perennial All-Star on the Sixers or Lakers for a decade I'm gonna be ill.  Chronically ill.

I am a little surprised you are this upset without even knowing the details of the talks. I am pretty into Fultz myself. If we end up with a team of IT, Bradley, Butler, Blake, Horford with Bench of Brown, Crowder and vets is that bad? I think that team can win the championship. 4 perennial all-stars....

(a) I don't think Butler is worth the top pick, let alone that plus future picks and whatever players we'd need to match salary.

(b) I don't like the spacing on that team, or the injury risk.  I don't think that team is a sure thing to beat Cleveland, let alone compete with GS.

How is the spacing a risk?
Horford obviously spaces the floor
Bradley and IT are very good shooters
Butler Shoots 37% from 3
Blake doesn't have 3 range really, but has pretty far range.

Assuming you still have Smart and Crowder on the bench that team is very competitive with Golden State in my opinion.

I don't think Butler is that great a shooter, and I don't trust Blake's spacing either.

Too many of those guys are best with the ball.


I'd much rather have a young core of Fultz, Brown, Smart, etc and see what we can do in free agency to buttress Thomas, Crowder, Horford in the present.

No need to trade away a consensus #1 pick just for a shot at getting killed by the Warriors instead of the Cavs.

I mean I think it is fare to prefer the young core for sure. However, I don't think your criticism of that starting lineup is fair. Is 37% shooting from 3 on high volume not a solid shooter? This is between where Bradley was the last two seasons. Also do these guys need the ball in their hands any more than the Warriors team does?

Curry and Durant at the very least need the ball in their hands, or did before coming to the Warriors. I guess your argument would be that Klay doesn't, but I think they are not taking advantage of him fully using him as a spot up shooter.

On this Celtics dream team Bradley and Horford work very well off the ball right? Presumably you have Blake being fed in the post also. It would seem like an embarassment of riches with a team that could beat you inside and out and only has one below average defender in the lineup (IT)
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: BostonClamCrowdah on June 16, 2017, 06:11:19 PM
Those folks saying Ainge is parlaying this trade into a deal for a Davis or Butler had better be right. Future picks are unknowns in the NBA lottery system.

Butler or George don't get you near Cleveland, so no, nothappening
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: KGBirdBias on June 16, 2017, 06:11:25 PM
Guys we don't know what the assets are for...it could be for Anthony Davis.

He may need the assets to grab a star to entice another star to sign.

2017 #3
Lakers 2018 #1
2 -2017 2nd round picks
AB

for Anthony Davis

IT
Smart
Hayward
Davis
Horford


Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Celtics18 on June 16, 2017, 06:12:25 PM
I'm psyched if we are trading the #1 for the #3 and additional picks if it means we land Josh Jackson.  If we do that deal and Jackson goes at 2, I'll be devastated.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: max215 on June 16, 2017, 06:12:34 PM
Alright, I'm checking out for a while. Hopefully, I'll wake up from this nightmare.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Smokeeye123 on June 16, 2017, 06:12:39 PM
If its one and another celtics pick for 3 sac and lal pick then id do it
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Atzar on June 16, 2017, 06:14:24 PM
Not really a fan of Philly as a trading partner.  I don't like the idea of trading the #1 for other picks.  I don't think the Belichick strategy translates very well to the NBA, where it's much harder to pick up elite talent after the first few picks and the lottery can swamp a great situation. 

The 76ers were looking like a borderline playoff team with Embiid healthy.  I wouldn't count on that 2018 pick being near the top of the draft, especially when you're filling their biggest hole for them by allowing them to take Fultz.  And the Lakers are adding another top pick to a good core of talent - if Fultz or Ball jumpstarts their engine, that pick could quickly lose value as well.  2019 Sacramento is more interesting because I have no faith in that FO's ability to get anything right, but a lot can change in two years.  To me, this would be like striking it rich on the roulette board... and then pushing your winnings right back in on the next spin.  Just a huge, huge gamble.

Now if Simmons+3 is the eventual goal, then my tune changes a bit.  I don't think Brown/Jackson/Simmons fit well together (not enough spacing) but at least we'd be receiving the right level of talent.  I'd still probably prefer Fultz, but I would understand that deal.  Just not interested in the gift basket of picks. 
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: CelticsElite on June 16, 2017, 06:15:09 PM
Dannys Crazy lol
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Celtics18 on June 16, 2017, 06:15:16 PM
Seriously, though, how could you say no to more gritty role players who can't shoot and more future draft picks to talk about trading for a star someday?

Surely that's better than actually taking your shot at a franchise player.

Step off the ledge.  Jackson's going to be better than Fultz.  This is genius!!!
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: rondofan1255 on June 16, 2017, 06:15:26 PM
Impossible to even think about this without knowing what we would get back.

This. Hope they just keep the pick. Makes sense that #1 is available if someone is willing to overpay big-time.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: mctyson on June 16, 2017, 06:17:50 PM
If they don't rate Fultz much higher than Jackson, they have to trade down.  That is an easy decision.

If they don't rate Fultz much higher than everyone else, that is itself the problem.
I knew Ainge would do something like this. And I don't understand it either. You rarely have a draft as talented as this one....that still has a consensus no. 1 pick.
Not a concensus.  Internet concensus because of Draftexpress maybe.  Danny has seen all these kids in person.  Hundreds of games.  He doesn't care about internet concensus.  Many GM's do not have Fultz #1 reportedly.

Exactly.  You have to trust their scouting.  If they get it wrong, that's on their record.  But it is the way it should be done...not by who DraftExpress rates.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: CelticsElite on June 16, 2017, 06:19:36 PM
Danny is going for youth movement and depth. The spurs strategy
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Dino Pitino on June 16, 2017, 06:21:34 PM
Quote
Not a concensus.  Internet concensus because of Draftexpress maybe.  Danny has seen all these kids in person.  Hundreds of games.  He doesn't care about internet concensus.  Many GM's do not have Fultz #1 reportedly.

THIS ^^^^^^

Too many fans here are letting the mythical Consensus dominate their heads. Last year at this time Jackson was a consensus better pick than Fultz. Consensus changes, is a product of groupthink much of the time. This could be one of those times and Fultz may become a disappointment, perhaps only a Good player rather than the Transcendant player that folks tied to the Consensus think he is.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: CelticsElite on June 16, 2017, 06:22:02 PM
Don't people trade to get the first pick? Trading down for more than one scrub might backfire
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Celtics18 on June 16, 2017, 06:22:51 PM
If they don't rate Fultz much higher than Jackson, they have to trade down.  That is an easy decision.

If they don't rate Fultz much higher than everyone else, that is itself the problem.
I knew Ainge would do something like this. And I don't understand it either. You rarely have a draft as talented as this one....that still has a consensus no. 1 pick.
Not a concensus.  Internet concensus because of Draftexpress maybe.  Danny has seen all these kids in person.  Hundreds of games.  He doesn't care about internet concensus.  Many GM's do not have Fultz #1 reportedly.

Great point about "internet consensus" not necessarily matching the consensus of NBA gms.  If Danny does this deal, it obviously would indicate that he and his staff weren't part of that consensus.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: CelticsElite on June 16, 2017, 06:23:06 PM
If we can somehow walk away with both fox and Jackson, I'll be ok with the trade
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: jpotter33 on June 16, 2017, 06:23:37 PM
Ugh freaking Lowe now saying the principal pieces are in play and he'd be surprised if it doesn't get done at this point...
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: ETNCeltics on June 16, 2017, 06:24:27 PM
Ainge is an absolute moron who should be immediately fired if he's actually considering this. No better than the idiot who gave him this pick in the first place. Trading a future superstar for a role player and a pick that might wind up with little value. Comical. This franchise deserves everything that will happen if ownership allows him to go through with this farce.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: rondofan1255 on June 16, 2017, 06:24:54 PM
Danny is going for youth movement and depth. The spurs strategy

Good news is Spurs haven't drafted a lottery pick since Duncan though. :D
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: mctyson on June 16, 2017, 06:27:43 PM
Ainge is an absolute moron who should be immediately fired if he's actually considering this. No better than the idiot who gave him this pick in the first place. Trading a future superstar for a role player and a pick that might wind up with little value. Comical. This franchise deserves everything that will happen if ownership allows him to go through with this farce.

Think about that for a second then repost.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Ilikesports17 on June 16, 2017, 06:28:31 PM
Ainge is an absolute moron who should be immediately fired if he's actually considering this. No better than the idiot who gave him this pick in the first place. Trading a future superstar for a role player and a pick that might wind up with little value. Comical. This franchise deserves everything that will happen if ownership allows him to go through with this farce.
Glad to see the Celtics blog ovverreaction machine is well oiled and ready for action.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: fantankerous on June 16, 2017, 06:29:02 PM
If they don't rate Fultz much higher than Jackson, they have to trade down.  That is an easy decision.

If they don't rate Fultz much higher than everyone else, that is itself the problem.
I knew Ainge would do something like this. And I don't understand it either. You rarely have a draft as talented as this one....that still has a consensus no. 1 pick.
Not a concensus.  Internet concensus because of Draftexpress maybe.  Danny has seen all these kids in person.  Hundreds of games.  He doesn't care about internet concensus.  Many GM's do not have Fultz #1 reportedly.

Great point about "internet consensus" not necessarily matching the consensus of NBA gms.  If Danny does this deal, it obviously would indicate that he and his staff weren't part of that consensus.

Not necessarily.  Danny could agree with consensus and still make this trade.  It may indicate that he values the additional picks more than the difference between one and three.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: jpotter33 on June 16, 2017, 06:29:37 PM
https://twitter.com/stevekylerNBA/status/875841933725270016?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fboston-celtics

Quote
So hearing the three this year, a future 76ers first and Lakers 2018 on the table to Celtics for the number one... thats a ton of value

Please, God, enough with these future picks. There's no guarantee you get a prospect of Fultz's level with any of these picks. Why the hell would you even chance it??

So much for his "quality not quantity" comments.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Who on June 16, 2017, 06:29:41 PM
I am excited to see what Ainge gets for Fultz if Ainge does end up trading him.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: mctyson on June 16, 2017, 06:29:45 PM
Ugh freaking Lowe now saying the principal pieces are in play and he'd be surprised if it doesn't get done at this point...

Why is this "UGH?"  I get being excited about Fultz and having the #1 pick but acting like this isn't a power move by the Celtics is kind of weird.  They are in the driver's seat. 
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: jpotter33 on June 16, 2017, 06:31:41 PM
Ugh freaking Lowe now saying the principal pieces are in play and he'd be surprised if it doesn't get done at this point...

Why is this "UGH?"  I get being excited about Fultz and having the #1 pick but acting like this isn't a power move by the Celtics is kind of weird.  They are in the driver's seat.

Because we've long been longing for the type of high-level talent that Fultz represents. Making this trade means taking a lesser talent in this draft all for the price of future picks that may or may not be as good as this pick.

As the last several years have shown, with Boston in particular, quality, not quantity, wins in the NBA.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: tonydelk on June 16, 2017, 06:31:49 PM
I'm very back and forth on this type of deal.  Fultz has been the guy for so long you get excited and set on that player as a future star for your team.  I just don't see any of the other guys being stars. 

If this deal is to move it for a star player like butler and get a lottery pick out of it as well I understand it but it doesn't mean I like it.  I just don't think adding Butler and Griffin put the Celtics on par with Golden State. 

Adding up the rumors it looks like it's possible Danny has another deal lined up.  I can see the below happening and I'm not sure how I feel.

#1 for #3 and the best philly pick next year out of the Lakers and their pick.

Crowder and #3 to Chicago for Butler and 16.  Sign Griffin. That's a fun team to watch but definitely not good enough to win a championship.  I'd rather have Fultz. 

PG - IT
SG - Bradley
SF - Butler
PF - Griffin
C - Horford

Bench
Brown
Smart
Yabu
Zizic
Rozier
1st round pick

Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: celticsclay on June 16, 2017, 06:32:52 PM
I'm very back and forth on this type of deal.  Fultz has been the guy for so long you get excited and set on that player as a future star for your team.  I just don't see any of the other guys being stars. 

If this deal is to move it for a star player like butler and get a lottery pick out of it as well I understand it but it doesn't mean I like it.  I just don't think adding Butler and Griffin put the Celtics on par with Golden State. 

Adding up the rumors it looks like it's possible Danny has another deal lined up.  I can see the below happening and I'm not sure how I feel.

#1 for #3 and the best philly pick next year out of the Lakers and their pick.

Crowder and #3 to Chicago for Butler and 16.  Sign Griffin. That's a fun team to watch but definitely not good enough to win a championship.  I'd rather have Fultz. 

PG - IT
SG - Bradley
SF - Butler
PF - Griffin
C - Horford

Bench
Brown
Smart
Yabu
Zizic
Rozier
1st round pick

What if Philly used the pick on Ball or Jackson instead of Fultz!
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Ilikesports17 on June 16, 2017, 06:33:25 PM
Holy Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline., Zach Lowe said terms are essentially agreed to.

This just became real. Im pretty confused. Markelle was the only guy in this draft who seemed to have go to scorer potential. Lets see how it pans out.

The good news is that Josh Jackson and Lonzo Ball are both terrific prospects. Its not like any one in the top 3 is likely to pull a Jahlil Okafor. I just dont like the idea of giving up a chance to get a James Harden type scorer.

I dont think Ainge will make a bad trade. Hes earned my faith in him.

No other GM in the world has the balls to trade this pick.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Ilikesports17 on June 16, 2017, 06:35:16 PM
If this trade goes through, whoever the Celtics take on draft night will get the living Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. booed out of him. I feel awful for Josh Jackson if thats the case.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: tonydelk on June 16, 2017, 06:35:16 PM
The only saving grace would be the Lakers being really bad next year and winning the lottery with Brooklyn coming in 2nd.  That's too much to chance but the Lakers and Brooklyn will definitely still be bottom 5 teams
.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: colincb on June 16, 2017, 06:35:24 PM
Quote
Steve Kyler‏Verified account @stevekylerNBA

So hearing the three this year, a future 76ers first and Lakers 2018 on the table to Celtics for the number one... thats a ton of value
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Phantom255x on June 16, 2017, 06:36:26 PM
UNLESS it's to trade for Anthony Davis in the near future...

(https://media4.giphy.com/media/12XMGIWtrHBl5e/giphy.gif)

I'm VERY HIGH on Fultz. Much higher than I am on Jackson.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Ilikesports17 on June 16, 2017, 06:36:35 PM
If we are gonna try to talk ourselves into Josh Jackson here is a fun tidbit.

when asked who the toughest player they faced in high school and aau was, Josh Jackson replied "Jaylen Brown", when Brown was asked the same question, his response: "Josh Jackson".
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: CelticsElite on June 16, 2017, 06:36:36 PM
Holy ****, Zach Lowe said terms are essentially agreed to.

This just became real. Im pretty confused. Markelle was the only guy in this draft who seemed to have go to scorer potential. Lets see how it pans out.

The good news is that Josh Jackson and Lonzo Ball are both terrific prospects. Its not like any one in the top 3 is likely to pull a Jahlil Okafor. I just dont like the idea of giving up a chance to get a James Harden type scorer.

I dont think Ainge will make a bad trade. Hes earned my faith in him.

No other GM in the world has the balls to trade this pick.
i honestly think Danny gets a thrill from the annual lottery  of landing a potential superstar. The Brooklyn picks are about to end so we can't let it end lol


Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: celticsclay on June 16, 2017, 06:36:45 PM
https://twitter.com/stevekylerNBA/status/875841933725270016?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fboston-celtics

Quote
So hearing the three this year, a future 76ers first and Lakers 2018 on the table to Celtics for the number one... thats a ton of value

Please, God, enough with these future picks. There's no guarantee you get a prospect of Fultz's level with any of these picks. Why the hell would you even chance it??

So much for his "quality not quantity" comments.

This is interesting and a fair point. However, it does seem like we are getting the other picks for free if Ainge really doesn't like Fultz for some reasons. It would also be interesting to see how highly the Celtics fans valued that Lakers pick. We have heard how great it is for years from the philly contingency. Will it become valued less by our local contrarian if it becomes ours? Good old local contrarian.

Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: colincb on June 16, 2017, 06:36:46 PM
Quote
3 mins ago – via Silverscreenandroll.com
A day after Markelle Fultz talked up his fit next to D’Angelo Russell following his first workout for the Los Angeles Lakers, there are reports that president of basketball operations Magic Johnson wants to make such a pairing a reality. According to Jonathan Givony of DraftExpress, Johnson “‘is in love’ with Fultz” and might attempt to trade for the Boston Celtics No. 1 pick in the 2017 NBA Draft in order to select him. Givony reports that Johnson might try to do this with an offer of Julius Randle and the Lakers’ own No. 2 pick.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: More Banners on June 16, 2017, 06:37:12 PM
Add those to the other futurepicks, and we have many more and much better assets than we did in 2007. We got Ray and a transcendent talent and person in Kevin Garnett with those bananas. Danny wants the two pieces we supposedly need, now by trade or later by draft, but Daniel is working his crazy voodoo magic again.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: celticsclay on June 16, 2017, 06:37:22 PM
Quote
3 mins ago – via Silverscreenandroll.com
A day after Markelle Fultz talked up his fit next to D’Angelo Russell following his first workout for the Los Angeles Lakers, there are reports that president of basketball operations Magic Johnson wants to make such a pairing a reality. According to Jonathan Givony of DraftExpress, Johnson “‘is in love’ with Fultz” and might attempt to trade for the Boston Celtics No. 1 pick in the 2017 NBA Draft in order to select him. Givony reports that Johnson might try to do this with an offer of Julius Randle and the Lakers’ own No. 2 pick.

Lol... we have no use for Randle. He is worse than Smart.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: CelticsElite on June 16, 2017, 06:38:03 PM
The only saving grace would be the Lakers being really bad next year and winning the lottery with Brooklyn coming in 2nd.  That's too much to chance but the Lakers and Brooklyn will definitely still be bottom 5 teams
.
the chance of getting porter Jr and Ayton or even doncic and bamba next year is very intriguing
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Ilikesports17 on June 16, 2017, 06:38:38 PM
The only saving grace would be the Lakers being really bad next year and winning the lottery with Brooklyn coming in 2nd.  That's too much to chance but the Lakers and Brooklyn will definitely still be bottom 5 teams
.
Thats a good point, if Ainge doesnt think theres a big gap between #1 and #3 the ability to pick up another likely top 10 pick is gigantic and all Philly selections have a lot of upside because the team is very reliant on Simmons and Embiid 2 young bigs with foot issues.

Im trying to talk myself into this, but there is some logic here.

Also, this trade makes it much easier to make a max offer to Hayward or Griffin.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: jpotter33 on June 16, 2017, 06:39:05 PM
There has to be another move set up for this. That's the only way it makes sense. That 76ers pick probably won't even be a lottery pick if they stay healthy.

Hate, hate, hate this. I've been banking on Fultz ever since the lottery night. We're just making the 76ers into a perennial powerhouse. Oh, and they're in our division. How the hell are we going to compete with Fultz, Simmons, AND Embiid?
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Ilikesports17 on June 16, 2017, 06:39:16 PM
Quote
3 mins ago – via Silverscreenandroll.com
A day after Markelle Fultz talked up his fit next to D’Angelo Russell following his first workout for the Los Angeles Lakers, there are reports that president of basketball operations Magic Johnson wants to make such a pairing a reality. According to Jonathan Givony of DraftExpress, Johnson “‘is in love’ with Fultz” and might attempt to trade for the Boston Celtics No. 1 pick in the 2017 NBA Draft in order to select him. Givony reports that Johnson might try to do this with an offer of Julius Randle and the Lakers’ own No. 2 pick.

Lol... we have no use for Randle. He is worse than Smart.
yup LA would have to include Ingram or Russel just to get the conversation started.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Diggles on June 16, 2017, 06:39:21 PM

“I learned that his scoring average is really good against a chair,” said president of basketball operations Danny Ainge. “Good shooting percentages against a chair. High efficiency.”

“I’ve gotten phone calls from other teams,” said Ainge, “but nothing that I’m tempted by.”

“I don’t know if it’s necessary, but we may bring him back in for a workout again,” said Ainge. (Fultz)


I guess Ainge got his offer.  LOL
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PhoSita on June 16, 2017, 06:39:37 PM
https://twitter.com/stevekylerNBA/status/875841933725270016?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fboston-celtics

Quote
So hearing the three this year, a future 76ers first and Lakers 2018 on the table to Celtics for the number one... thats a ton of value

Please, God, enough with these future picks. There's no guarantee you get a prospect of Fultz's level with any of these picks. Why the hell would you even chance it??

So much for his "quality not quantity" comments.

When Future Draft Picks leads us to a championship you're gonna be eating your words.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Ilikesports17 on June 16, 2017, 06:40:20 PM
There has to be another move set up for this. That's the only way it makes sense. That 76ers pick probably won't even be a lottery pick if they stay healthy.

Hate, hate, hate this. I've been banking on Fultz ever since the lottery night. We're just making the 76ers into a perennial powerhouse. Oh, and they're in their division. How the hell are we going to compete with Fultz, Simmons, AND Embiid?
well 2 of them havent played a game yet and the 3rd one is the biggest injury concern since Greg Oden.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Ilikesports17 on June 16, 2017, 06:41:09 PM
https://twitter.com/stevekylerNBA/status/875841933725270016?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fboston-celtics

Quote
So hearing the three this year, a future 76ers first and Lakers 2018 on the table to Celtics for the number one... thats a ton of value

Please, God, enough with these future picks. There's no guarantee you get a prospect of Fultz's level with any of these picks. Why the hell would you even chance it??

So much for his "quality not quantity" comments.

When Future Draft Picks leads us to a championship you're gonna be eating your words.
Future Draft Pick averages at least 20 a game next year. Should be a terrific second option.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: CelticsElite on June 16, 2017, 06:41:10 PM
What if lakers take dannys guy?


I'm assuming he'll just take Tatum.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Celtics18 on June 16, 2017, 06:41:36 PM
If they don't rate Fultz much higher than Jackson, they have to trade down.  That is an easy decision.

If they don't rate Fultz much higher than everyone else, that is itself the problem.
I knew Ainge would do something like this. And I don't understand it either. You rarely have a draft as talented as this one....that still has a consensus no. 1 pick.
Not a concensus.  Internet concensus because of Draftexpress maybe.  Danny has seen all these kids in person.  Hundreds of games.  He doesn't care about internet concensus.  Many GM's do not have Fultz #1 reportedly.

Great point about "internet consensus" not necessarily matching the consensus of NBA gms.  If Danny does this deal, it obviously would indicate that he and his staff weren't part of that consensus.

Not necessarily.  Danny could agree with consensus and still make this trade.  It may indicate that he values the additional picks more than the difference between one and three.

I doubt it. 
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Phantom255x on June 16, 2017, 06:41:37 PM
What if lakers take dannys guy?


I'm assuming he'll just take Tatum.

Yep, he'll take Tatum in that case.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PhoSita on June 16, 2017, 06:42:31 PM
There has to be another move set up for this. That's the only way it makes sense. That 76ers pick probably won't even be a lottery pick if they stay healthy.

Hate, hate, hate this. I've been banking on Fultz ever since the lottery night. We're just making the 76ers into a perennial powerhouse. Oh, and they're in our division. How the hell are we going to compete with Fultz, Simmons, AND Embiid?

I ... have nothing to say.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Celtics18 on June 16, 2017, 06:45:12 PM
Ugh freaking Lowe now saying the principal pieces are in play and he'd be surprised if it doesn't get done at this point...

Why is this "UGH?"  I get being excited about Fultz and having the #1 pick but acting like this isn't a power move by the Celtics is kind of weird.  They are in the driver's seat.

Because we've long been longing for the type of high-level talent that Fultz represents. Making this trade means taking a lesser talent in this draft all for the price of future picks that may or may not be as good as this pick.

As the last several years have shown, with Boston in particular, quality, not quantity, wins in the NBA.

I don't think Danny would do this if he didn't think the player he is getting back (hopefully Jackson) has a good shot of being the best player from the draft.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: jpotter33 on June 16, 2017, 06:45:25 PM
https://twitter.com/BillSimmons/status/875823645913792512

Quote
WHAT THE F I CANT BELIEVE THIS IS ACTUALLY HAPPENING
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: CELTICSofBOSTON on June 16, 2017, 06:45:55 PM

“I learned that his scoring average is really good against a chair,” said president of basketball operations Danny Ainge. “Good shooting percentages against a chair. High efficiency.”

“I’ve gotten phone calls from other teams,” said Ainge, “but nothing that I’m tempted by.”

“I don’t know if it’s necessary, but we may bring him back in for a workout again,” said Ainge. (Fultz)


I guess Ainge got his offer.  LOL

How recent are these quotes?
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: celticsclay on June 16, 2017, 06:46:19 PM
There has to be another move set up for this. That's the only way it makes sense. That 76ers pick probably won't even be a lottery pick if they stay healthy.

Hate, hate, hate this. I've been banking on Fultz ever since the lottery night. We're just making the 76ers into a perennial powerhouse. Oh, and they're in our division. How the hell are we going to compete with Fultz, Simmons, AND Embiid?

I ... have nothing to say.
If we got Butler and the first AND second overall pick next year would you be upset?
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Ilikesports17 on June 16, 2017, 06:47:05 PM
https://twitter.com/BillSimmons/status/875823645913792512

Quote
WHAT THE F I CANT BELIEVE THIS IS ACTUALLY HAPPENING
If Bill Simmons hates it, I can be talked into it. Really dislike bill.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: CelticsFan166 on June 16, 2017, 06:47:27 PM
There has to be another move set up for this. That's the only way it makes sense. That 76ers pick probably won't even be a lottery pick if they stay healthy.

Hate, hate, hate this. I've been banking on Fultz ever since the lottery night. We're just making the 76ers into a perennial powerhouse. Oh, and they're in our division. How the hell are we going to compete with Fultz, Simmons, AND Embiid?

I ... have nothing to say.
Yeah this just seems incredibly dumb. Remember Ainge's interview a few weeks back where he stated that we need more scoring, shooting and playmaking (pretty much everything Fultz would provide)? How can he say that and then draft another defensive role player? Something's fishy.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Ilikesports17 on June 16, 2017, 06:47:40 PM
There has to be another move set up for this. That's the only way it makes sense. That 76ers pick probably won't even be a lottery pick if they stay healthy.

Hate, hate, hate this. I've been banking on Fultz ever since the lottery night. We're just making the 76ers into a perennial powerhouse. Oh, and they're in our division. How the hell are we going to compete with Fultz, Simmons, AND Embiid?

I ... have nothing to say.
If we got Butler and the first AND second overall pick next year would you be upset?
I mean thats obviously incredibly unlikely, but no, I dont think anyone would complain lol
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: jpotter33 on June 16, 2017, 06:48:16 PM
Ugh freaking Lowe now saying the principal pieces are in play and he'd be surprised if it doesn't get done at this point...

Why is this "UGH?"  I get being excited about Fultz and having the #1 pick but acting like this isn't a power move by the Celtics is kind of weird.  They are in the driver's seat.

Because we've long been longing for the type of high-level talent that Fultz represents. Making this trade means taking a lesser talent in this draft all for the price of future picks that may or may not be as good as this pick.

As the last several years have shown, with Boston in particular, quality, not quantity, wins in the NBA.

I don't think Danny would do this if he didn't think the player he is getting back (hopefully Jackson) has a good shot of being the best player from the draft.

I truly do not get all of this Jackson love on here. He seems like a bigger, bit more well-rounded version of Marcus Smart to me, only with less defense and more athleticism and size/length. I don't see him ever being even a secondary scorer in the NBA. He's also really similar to Brown in a lot of ways, so why would we want Jackson, too?

I just don't see him as the type of player that this team needs going forward.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: CelticsElite on June 16, 2017, 06:48:46 PM
Fultz just signed a multi year shoe deal with Nike. He's had a crazy day
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: colincb on June 16, 2017, 06:49:21 PM
Quote
@Tom Moore Believe would have to be 2019 Sixers 1st-rounder for deal to be completed before draft night.

Quote
@stevekylerNBA
So hearing the three this year, a future 76ers first and Lakers 2018 on the table to Celtics for the number one... thats a ton of value
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Ilikesports17 on June 16, 2017, 06:49:25 PM
Ugh freaking Lowe now saying the principal pieces are in play and he'd be surprised if it doesn't get done at this point...

Why is this "UGH?"  I get being excited about Fultz and having the #1 pick but acting like this isn't a power move by the Celtics is kind of weird.  They are in the driver's seat.

Because we've long been longing for the type of high-level talent that Fultz represents. Making this trade means taking a lesser talent in this draft all for the price of future picks that may or may not be as good as this pick.

As the last several years have shown, with Boston in particular, quality, not quantity, wins in the NBA.

I don't think Danny would do this if he didn't think the player he is getting back (hopefully Jackson) has a good shot of being the best player from the draft.

I truly do not get all of this Jackson love on here. He seems like a bigger, bit more well-rounded version of Marcus Smart to me, only with less defense and more athleticism and size/length. I don't see him ever being even a secondary scorer in the NBA. He's also really similar to Brown in a lot of ways, so why would we want Jackson, too?
Jackson is an explosive 6'8" Marcus Smart with a little less defense.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Phantom255x on June 16, 2017, 06:49:27 PM
You have a chance to draft the next "James Harden with slightly better defense..."

And you trade it for #3 and 2 future picks. Unless this is getting us Davis in a trade...

(https://media4.giphy.com/media/12XMGIWtrHBl5e/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: footey on June 16, 2017, 06:50:28 PM
Chad Ford called it. Give him credit.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Vox_Populi on June 16, 2017, 06:50:45 PM
Top prospects should intentionally tank their FG% and 3P% to pique Ainge's interest.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: RJ87 on June 16, 2017, 06:51:18 PM
Wouldn't this be a pick you make on draft night even you know what's what?

What are we doing? What is happening?! What is going on?!?
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PhoSita on June 16, 2017, 06:52:50 PM
There has to be another move set up for this. That's the only way it makes sense. That 76ers pick probably won't even be a lottery pick if they stay healthy.

Hate, hate, hate this. I've been banking on Fultz ever since the lottery night. We're just making the 76ers into a perennial powerhouse. Oh, and they're in our division. How the hell are we going to compete with Fultz, Simmons, AND Embiid?

I ... have nothing to say.
If we got Butler and the first AND second overall pick next year would you be upset?


Probably not, but what's the likelihood of that?


I'm just sicking of pushing things out.  We FINALLY got a top overall pick in a draft with a consensus #1.  Take your guy and move on.  This isn't complicated.

I really dont' think there's that much to be gained trying to go all in to win in the short term.

Jimmy Butler probably doesn't get us to Game 7 against the Cavs, let alone a shot against the Warriors.

Maybe as you say the Celts can then sign Blake.  Seems unlikely, but perhaps.

How long does a core of IT, Butler, Crowder, Blake, Horford stay together?  How many chances do they get to unseat LeBron and take a swing at the Warriors?


How does it look if that group only truly contends once or twice in the next five years, meanwhile those "extra picks" turn into more role player type prospects and Fultz turns into a Harden / Wall / Lillard type piece for Philly?

Are we making a move for the sake of 2019-2020 while giving Philly a shot at dominating 2020-2030?
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: mctyson on June 16, 2017, 06:53:32 PM
If this trade goes through, whoever the Celtics take on draft night will get the living **** booed out of him. I feel awful for Josh Jackson if thats the case.

Same thing happened to Jaylen (except by me) last year.  That turned out just fine.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: ETNCeltics on June 16, 2017, 06:53:41 PM
Ugh freaking Lowe now saying the principal pieces are in play and he'd be surprised if it doesn't get done at this point...

Why is this "UGH?"  I get being excited about Fultz and having the #1 pick but acting like this isn't a power move by the Celtics is kind of weird.  They are in the driver's seat.

Because we've long been longing for the type of high-level talent that Fultz represents. Making this trade means taking a lesser talent in this draft all for the price of future picks that may or may not be as good as this pick.

As the last several years have shown, with Boston in particular, quality, not quantity, wins in the NBA.

I don't think Danny would do this if he didn't think the player he is getting back (hopefully Jackson) has a good shot of being the best player from the draft.
No, Ainge won't have a good shot to get the best player, he's in process of forfeiting that right for a role player and a future pick that very well may be nothing more than yet another role player.

If Ainge was just going to p--- away the pick like this, I wish he'd have traded it for Butler instead.

I'll be on the 'fire Ainge' bandwagon until he's fired or I'm dead.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Celtics18 on June 16, 2017, 06:55:12 PM
Ugh freaking Lowe now saying the principal pieces are in play and he'd be surprised if it doesn't get done at this point...

Why is this "UGH?"  I get being excited about Fultz and having the #1 pick but acting like this isn't a power move by the Celtics is kind of weird.  They are in the driver's seat.

Because we've long been longing for the type of high-level talent that Fultz represents. Making this trade means taking a lesser talent in this draft all for the price of future picks that may or may not be as good as this pick.

As the last several years have shown, with Boston in particular, quality, not quantity, wins in the NBA.

I don't think Danny would do this if he didn't think the player he is getting back (hopefully Jackson) has a good shot of being the best player from the draft.

I truly do not get all of this Jackson love on here. He seems like a bigger, bit more well-rounded version of Marcus Smart to me, only with less defense and more athleticism and size/length. I don't see him ever being even a secondary scorer in the NBA. He's also really similar to Brown in a lot of ways, so why would we want Jackson, too?

I just don't see him as the type of player that this team needs going forward.

I see a top level athlete who plays strong defense and is very versatile.  Everybody sees that.  I also see a guy who, in my estimation, projects to be a lot better lead--or at least secondary--ball handler than he is given credit for.

He looks smooth with the ball in his hands.  He looks like the type of player who can get to where he wants on the floor easily.  He's got good vision, good handles, and a nice mid range game.

I don't think he got to showcase all his skills at Kansas, but I think he has top level NBA small forward talent.

Time will tell.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Ilikesports17 on June 16, 2017, 06:55:46 PM
Ugh freaking Lowe now saying the principal pieces are in play and he'd be surprised if it doesn't get done at this point...

Why is this "UGH?"  I get being excited about Fultz and having the #1 pick but acting like this isn't a power move by the Celtics is kind of weird.  They are in the driver's seat.

Because we've long been longing for the type of high-level talent that Fultz represents. Making this trade means taking a lesser talent in this draft all for the price of future picks that may or may not be as good as this pick.

As the last several years have shown, with Boston in particular, quality, not quantity, wins in the NBA.

I don't think Danny would do this if he didn't think the player he is getting back (hopefully Jackson) has a good shot of being the best player from the draft.
No, Ainge won't have a good shot to get the best player, he's in process of forfeiting that right for a role player and a future pick that very well may be nothing more than yet another role player.

If Ainge was just going to p--- away the pick like this, I wish he'd have traded it for Butler instead.

I'll be on the 'fire Ainge' bandwagon until he's fired or I'm dead.
Nah, if you can get Lakes pick and #3 the odds that you end up with the best player arent too bad.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: tonydelk on June 16, 2017, 06:55:51 PM
With this type of deal it does allow the C's to be sort of relevant now and build for the future.  They free up the space needed for a max player.  Possibly already have a verbal commitment through back channels?  Then they may have another deal on the table for #3 and players?

It's tough because the team has to stink to get lucky to win the lottery and draft a franchise player.  The celtics made it to the ECF and have that chance but are thinking about trading it for a potential borderline all star potential and future picks that may or may not be top 4 picks.  I just don't understand what he doesn't see in Fultz to make him untouchable.  From everything I've read he should be. 

Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: CelticSooner on June 16, 2017, 06:55:56 PM
So all these teams want Fultz yet the C's want to trade him? I have no problems with Jackson but I'd rather just roll with Fultz. Trader Danny in full affect tho.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Phantom255x on June 16, 2017, 06:56:40 PM
If this trade goes through, whoever the Celtics take on draft night will get the living **** booed out of him. I feel awful for Josh Jackson if thats the case.

Same thing happened to Jaylen (except by me) last year.  That turned out just fine.

LOVED the Jaylen pick, and felt high on him, so I didn't boo last year.

I'll be booing this year if they trade #1/Fultz.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PhoSita on June 16, 2017, 06:56:40 PM
With this type of deal it does allow the C's to be sort of relevant now and build for the future. 


THEY ALREADY HAVE THAT WITHOUT MAKING A MOVE.

You have Thomas, Bradley, Crowder, Horford.  That team is now.

You have Smart, Fultz, Brown, etc.

That's the future.

Why make this move?  Fultz is a great prospect.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PhoSita on June 16, 2017, 06:57:30 PM
Ugh freaking Lowe now saying the principal pieces are in play and he'd be surprised if it doesn't get done at this point...

Why is this "UGH?"  I get being excited about Fultz and having the #1 pick but acting like this isn't a power move by the Celtics is kind of weird.  They are in the driver's seat.

Because we've long been longing for the type of high-level talent that Fultz represents. Making this trade means taking a lesser talent in this draft all for the price of future picks that may or may not be as good as this pick.

As the last several years have shown, with Boston in particular, quality, not quantity, wins in the NBA.

I don't think Danny would do this if he didn't think the player he is getting back (hopefully Jackson) has a good shot of being the best player from the draft.

I truly do not get all of this Jackson love on here. He seems like a bigger, bit more well-rounded version of Marcus Smart to me, only with less defense and more athleticism and size/length. I don't see him ever being even a secondary scorer in the NBA. He's also really similar to Brown in a lot of ways, so why would we want Jackson, too?

I just don't see him as the type of player that this team needs going forward.

I see a top level athlete who plays strong defense and is very versatile.  Everybody sees that.  I also see a guy who, in my estimation, projects to be a lot better lead--or at least secondary--ball handler than he is given credit for.

He looks smooth with the ball in his hands.  He looks like the type of player who can get to where he wants on the floor easily.  He's got good vision, good handles, and a nice mid range game.

I don't think he got to showcase all his skills at Kansas, but I think he has top level NBA small forward talent.

Time will tell.


I see another Justise Winslow / Stanley Johnson etc.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: mctyson on June 16, 2017, 06:57:36 PM
Ugh freaking Lowe now saying the principal pieces are in play and he'd be surprised if it doesn't get done at this point...

Why is this "UGH?"  I get being excited about Fultz and having the #1 pick but acting like this isn't a power move by the Celtics is kind of weird.  They are in the driver's seat.

Because we've long been longing for the type of high-level talent that Fultz represents. Making this trade means taking a lesser talent in this draft all for the price of future picks that may or may not be as good as this pick.

As the last several years have shown, with Boston in particular, quality, not quantity, wins in the NBA.

I don't think Danny would do this if he didn't think the player he is getting back (hopefully Jackson) has a good shot of being the best player from the draft.

I truly do not get all of this Jackson love on here. He seems like a bigger, bit more well-rounded version of Marcus Smart to me, only with less defense and more athleticism and size/length. I don't see him ever being even a secondary scorer in the NBA. He's also really similar to Brown in a lot of ways, so why would we want Jackson, too?

I just don't see him as the type of player that this team needs going forward.

Prior to the college season Jackson was probably the highest rated player in the US.  You could argue that if he had shot better from the FT line and didn't kick a girls car door in he would be neck and neck with Fultz.

Again, if Danny sees both of these guys as similar players (All-Star potential, but not 1st team All NBA) then it makes all the sense in the world to trade down.  He can get 2-3 more unprotected 1sts!
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: obnoxiousmime on June 16, 2017, 06:58:12 PM
If Jackson is their man they have to be 100% sure LA is taking Ball.

If the Lakers take Jackson I am sure the Celtics have plans to trade down again to 4 or 5 because I just can't see them taking Lonzo or Fox. I know, BPA and all that but at some point if you have too much of a logjam no team is going to give you fair value in a trade because they know you have to make a deal. I mean, I suppose Lonzo can play one of the guard spots but then that means Bradley is gone, right?

That means they'd probably be looking at Tatum or Isaac? I'm confused...
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Neurotic Guy on June 16, 2017, 07:00:57 PM
Wouldn't it be wrong if Ainge did NOT explore what he could get for the pick?  It's due diligence.  The report that the Lakers are in love with Fultz just strengthens Ainge's justification for a big return.  If Ainge has a likely superstar on his hands in Fultz he won't trade him unless he knows he's getting a superstar back (maybe not on the initial deal, but in a subsequent one based on the additional assets). 

With the hype that Fultz is getting it scares me to lose him, but what the heck do I know?  I rely on highlights, talking heads and a basketball brain 1/20th the size of Danny's (a generous self-assessment). 
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Celtics18 on June 16, 2017, 07:01:03 PM
Ugh freaking Lowe now saying the principal pieces are in play and he'd be surprised if it doesn't get done at this point...

Why is this "UGH?"  I get being excited about Fultz and having the #1 pick but acting like this isn't a power move by the Celtics is kind of weird.  They are in the driver's seat.

Because we've long been longing for the type of high-level talent that Fultz represents. Making this trade means taking a lesser talent in this draft all for the price of future picks that may or may not be as good as this pick.

As the last several years have shown, with Boston in particular, quality, not quantity, wins in the NBA.

I don't think Danny would do this if he didn't think the player he is getting back (hopefully Jackson) has a good shot of being the best player from the draft.

I truly do not get all of this Jackson love on here. He seems like a bigger, bit more well-rounded version of Marcus Smart to me, only with less defense and more athleticism and size/length. I don't see him ever being even a secondary scorer in the NBA. He's also really similar to Brown in a lot of ways, so why would we want Jackson, too?

I just don't see him as the type of player that this team needs going forward.

I see a top level athlete who plays strong defense and is very versatile.  Everybody sees that.  I also see a guy who, in my estimation, projects to be a lot better lead--or at least secondary--ball handler than he is given credit for.

He looks smooth with the ball in his hands.  He looks like the type of player who can get to where he wants on the floor easily.  He's got good vision, good handles, and a nice mid range game.

I don't think he got to showcase all his skills at Kansas, but I think he has top level NBA small forward talent.

Time will tell.


I see another Justise Winslow / Stanley Johnson etc.

Doesn't matter what either you or I think.  It's about what Danny thinks.  I think he likes the same guy I like, because he's really smart about basketball.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Ilikesports17 on June 16, 2017, 07:01:36 PM
Wouldn't it be wrong if Ainge did NOT explore what he could get for the pick?  It's due diligence.  The report that the Lakers are in love with Fultz just strengthens Ainge's justification for a big return.  If Ainge has a likely superstar on his hands in Fultz he won't trade him unless he knows he's getting a superstar back (maybe not on the initial deal, but in a subsequent one based on the additional assets). 

With the hype that Fultz is getting it scares me to lose him, but what the heck do I know?  I rely on highlights, talking heads and a basketball brain 1/20th the size of Danny's (a generous self-assessment).
this isnt due diligence. Zach Lowe is reporting its basically a done deal.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: jpotter33 on June 16, 2017, 07:01:54 PM
Ugh freaking Lowe now saying the principal pieces are in play and he'd be surprised if it doesn't get done at this point...

Why is this "UGH?"  I get being excited about Fultz and having the #1 pick but acting like this isn't a power move by the Celtics is kind of weird.  They are in the driver's seat.

Because we've long been longing for the type of high-level talent that Fultz represents. Making this trade means taking a lesser talent in this draft all for the price of future picks that may or may not be as good as this pick.

As the last several years have shown, with Boston in particular, quality, not quantity, wins in the NBA.

I don't think Danny would do this if he didn't think the player he is getting back (hopefully Jackson) has a good shot of being the best player from the draft.

I truly do not get all of this Jackson love on here. He seems like a bigger, bit more well-rounded version of Marcus Smart to me, only with less defense and more athleticism and size/length. I don't see him ever being even a secondary scorer in the NBA. He's also really similar to Brown in a lot of ways, so why would we want Jackson, too?

I just don't see him as the type of player that this team needs going forward.

Prior to the college season Jackson was probably the highest rated player in the US.  You could argue that if he had shot better from the FT line and didn't kick a girls car door in he would be neck and neck with Fultz.

Again, if Danny sees both of these guys as similar players (All-Star potential, but not 1st team All NBA) then it makes all the sense in the world to trade down.  He can get 2-3 more unprotected 1sts!

I mean, I understand the logic, sort of. If he wasn't going to pick Fultz anyways, then he might as well get more assets out of the deal.

I guess I just disagree with it. I think Fultz is quite significantly a better prospect than the other prospects, similar to how Simmons was last year with the other prospects.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Ilikesports17 on June 16, 2017, 07:02:07 PM
Ugh freaking Lowe now saying the principal pieces are in play and he'd be surprised if it doesn't get done at this point...

Why is this "UGH?"  I get being excited about Fultz and having the #1 pick but acting like this isn't a power move by the Celtics is kind of weird.  They are in the driver's seat.

Because we've long been longing for the type of high-level talent that Fultz represents. Making this trade means taking a lesser talent in this draft all for the price of future picks that may or may not be as good as this pick.

As the last several years have shown, with Boston in particular, quality, not quantity, wins in the NBA.

I don't think Danny would do this if he didn't think the player he is getting back (hopefully Jackson) has a good shot of being the best player from the draft.

I truly do not get all of this Jackson love on here. He seems like a bigger, bit more well-rounded version of Marcus Smart to me, only with less defense and more athleticism and size/length. I don't see him ever being even a secondary scorer in the NBA. He's also really similar to Brown in a lot of ways, so why would we want Jackson, too?

I just don't see him as the type of player that this team needs going forward.

I see a top level athlete who plays strong defense and is very versatile.  Everybody sees that.  I also see a guy who, in my estimation, projects to be a lot better lead--or at least secondary--ball handler than he is given credit for.

He looks smooth with the ball in his hands.  He looks like the type of player who can get to where he wants on the floor easily.  He's got good vision, good handles, and a nice mid range game.

I don't think he got to showcase all his skills at Kansas, but I think he has top level NBA small forward talent.

Time will tell.


I see another Justise Winslow / Stanley Johnson etc.
Hes exponentially more athletic than either of those players.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PhoSita on June 16, 2017, 07:02:28 PM
Wouldn't it be wrong if Ainge did NOT explore what he could get for the pick?  It's due diligence.  The report that the Lakers are in love with Fultz just strengthens Ainge's justification for a big return.  If Ainge has a likely superstar on his hands in Fultz he won't trade him unless he knows he's getting a superstar back (maybe not on the initial deal, but in a subsequent one based on the additional assets). 

With the hype that Fultz is getting it scares me to lose him, but what the heck do I know?  I rely on highlights, talking heads and a basketball brain 1/20th the size of Danny's (a generous self-assessment).


To me, I just feel that the whole purpose of hoarding all these picks is to increase your chances of being in the position the Celts are already in, where you get to select a consensus #1 pick and add him to an already good team.

Why pass that up by trading down and picking up yet more future picks?  Are we going to defer to the future every year until Ainge retires?
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: KGBirdBias on June 16, 2017, 07:04:17 PM
Guys this trade isn't for Butler. Think about what we looked like in the playoffs. We couldn't get a rebound and it was a layup drill for the Cavs.

I believe Ainge has asked the Pelicans what it would take to get Davis. If they said 3 #1s, AB, Crowder and KO...you do the deal.

If he can get Davis, that will entice either Hayward or PG13 to sign extension.

No way Ainge is making this deal to get younger. He knows we got killed on the boards and we need a shot blocker as well.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Phantom255x on June 16, 2017, 07:04:24 PM
Thing that scares me is EVERYONE is on this: Woj, Lowe, Stein, ETC.

It's not some "rumor with less substance.."
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: mctyson on June 16, 2017, 07:04:24 PM
Wouldn't it be wrong if Ainge did NOT explore what he could get for the pick?  It's due diligence. The report that the Lakers are in love with Fultz just strengthens Ainge's justification for a big return.  If Ainge has a likely superstar on his hands in Fultz he won't trade him unless he knows he's getting a superstar back (maybe not on the initial deal, but in a subsequent one based on the additional assets). 

With the hype that Fultz is getting it scares me to lose him, but what the heck do I know?  I rely on highlights, talking heads and a basketball brain 1/20th the size of Danny's (a generous self-assessment).

Of course.  And it would be negligence if he just picked Fultz because Chad Ford and DraftExpress rate him #1 when he (and his staff) really likes Jackson or Tatum or Fox the best.  More importantly, if he has a team that is willing to give up the #3 pick and 2 more likely top-10 picks to move up 2 spots, it would be criminal to not discuss that if not take it.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PickNRoll on June 16, 2017, 07:04:29 PM
If they don't rate Fultz much higher than Jackson, they have to trade down.  That is an easy decision.

If they don't rate Fultz much higher than everyone else, that is itself the problem.
I knew Ainge would do something like this. And I don't understand it either. You rarely have a draft as talented as this one....that still has a consensus no. 1 pick.
Not a concensus.  Internet concensus because of Draftexpress maybe.  Danny has seen all these kids in person.  Hundreds of games.  He doesn't care about internet concensus.  Many GM's do not have Fultz #1 reportedly.

Great point about "internet consensus" not necessarily matching the consensus of NBA gms.  If Danny does this deal, it obviously would indicate that he and his staff weren't part of that consensus.

Not necessarily.  Danny could agree with consensus and still make this trade.  It may indicate that he values the additional picks more than the difference between one and three.
Unlikely, IMO.  This type of decision is weighted so heavily towards best player available.  Look at an average draft.  Find the best player.  Now find the 3rd best.  In most years it would be unthinkable to swap.  Danny thinks the BPA will be there at 3.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: RJ87 on June 16, 2017, 07:04:31 PM
Ugh freaking Lowe now saying the principal pieces are in play and he'd be surprised if it doesn't get done at this point...

Why is this "UGH?"  I get being excited about Fultz and having the #1 pick but acting like this isn't a power move by the Celtics is kind of weird.  They are in the driver's seat.

Because we've long been longing for the type of high-level talent that Fultz represents. Making this trade means taking a lesser talent in this draft all for the price of future picks that may or may not be as good as this pick.

As the last several years have shown, with Boston in particular, quality, not quantity, wins in the NBA.

I don't think Danny would do this if he didn't think the player he is getting back (hopefully Jackson) has a good shot of being the best player from the draft.

I truly do not get all of this Jackson love on here. He seems like a bigger, bit more well-rounded version of Marcus Smart to me, only with less defense and more athleticism and size/length. I don't see him ever being even a secondary scorer in the NBA. He's also really similar to Brown in a lot of ways, so why would we want Jackson, too?

I just don't see him as the type of player that this team needs going forward.

I see a top level athlete who plays strong defense and is very versatile.  Everybody sees that.  I also see a guy who, in my estimation, projects to be a lot better lead--or at least secondary--ball handler than he is given credit for.

He looks smooth with the ball in his hands.  He looks like the type of player who can get to where he wants on the floor easily.  He's got good vision, good handles, and a nice mid range game.

I don't think he got to showcase all his skills at Kansas, but I think he has top level NBA small forward talent.

Time will tell.


I see another Justise Winslow / Stanley Johnson etc.
Hes exponentially more athletic than either of those players.

Allegedly we were willing to give up the moon for Justise Winslow so this is right in line....
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PhoSita on June 16, 2017, 07:04:41 PM
I would so much rather have an elite pick and roll scorer type prospect than a guy who projects as a kind of Gerald Wallace / Joe Johnson / Andre Iguodala type player.

Look, if we were sitting at #3 after the lottery I'd be all about Josh Jackson.

Fultz is a better prospect. 

I know we already have a great lead scoring guard in Thomas, but he won't last forever.  To me the value of a prospect like Fultz is exponentially higher than a guy like Jackson.

The chances of him becoming another tweener who can't shoot (e.g. MKG, Winslow, Johnson, etc) seem a lot higher than the chance he becomes Kawhi Leonard.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: GetLucky on June 16, 2017, 07:04:56 PM
Kyler reporting that the deal will not go any farther until Fultz visits the Sixers and the Celtics can get some of the potential #3 guys in for workouts. "Not just" contingent on physical. We might be up in the air about nothing here.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: CelticSooner on June 16, 2017, 07:05:23 PM
That Lakers pick probably wont even be top 5 next season. They have no incentive to tank anymore. They could win 30+ next season.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: GratefulCs on June 16, 2017, 07:06:01 PM
DSJ
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: CelticsElite on June 16, 2017, 07:06:16 PM
Guys this trade isn't for Butler. Think about what we looked like in the playoffs. We couldn't get a rebound and it was a layup drill for the Cavs.

I believe Ainge has asked the Pelicans what it would take to get Davis. If they said 3 #1s, AB, Crowder and KO...you do the deal.

If he can get Davis, that will entice either Hayward or PG13 to sign extension.

No way Ainge is making this deal to get younger. He knows we got killed on the boards and we need a shot blocker as well.
that would be amazing if true
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Ilikesports17 on June 16, 2017, 07:06:58 PM
That Lakers pick probably wont even be top 5 next season. They have no incentive to tank anymore. They could win 30+ next season.
that doesnt change the fact that they suck. Brooklyn had no incentive to tank either.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: CelticSooner on June 16, 2017, 07:09:02 PM
That Lakers pick probably wont even be top 5 next season. They have no incentive to tank anymore. They could win 30+ next season.
that doesnt change the fact that they suck. Brooklyn had no incentive to tank either.

They won't suck as bad next season. Book it
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Celtics18 on June 16, 2017, 07:09:57 PM
I would so much rather have an elite pick and roll scorer type prospect than a guy who projects as a kind of Gerald Wallace / Joe Johnson / Andre Iguodala type player.

Look, if we were sitting at #3 after the lottery I'd be all about Josh Jackson.

Fultz is a better prospect. 

I know we already have a great lead scoring guard in Thomas, but he won't last forever.  To me the value of a prospect like Fultz is exponentially higher than a guy like Jackson.

The chances of him becoming another tweener who can't shoot (e.g. MKG, Winslow, Johnson, etc) seem a lot higher than the chance he becomes Kawhi Leonard.

You are most likely only sure of this because you've been reading it from Chad Ford and Johnathan Givony and the rest of the "experts" for months.  This doesn't make it reality.

Some basketball observers (myself) have been saying they see more potential in Josh Jackson than anyone else in this draft for a while now.

It's nice to see that Danny Ainge may be sharing those observations and projections.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: KGBirdBias on June 16, 2017, 07:10:09 PM
Personally I never like Fultz defense or his intensity. I think Ainge likes Jackson's motor and Tatum's versitility.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PickNRoll on June 16, 2017, 07:10:13 PM
Ugh freaking Lowe now saying the principal pieces are in play and he'd be surprised if it doesn't get done at this point...

Why is this "UGH?"  I get being excited about Fultz and having the #1 pick but acting like this isn't a power move by the Celtics is kind of weird.  They are in the driver's seat.

Because we've long been longing for the type of high-level talent that Fultz represents. Making this trade means taking a lesser talent in this draft all for the price of future picks that may or may not be as good as this pick.

As the last several years have shown, with Boston in particular, quality, not quantity, wins in the NBA.

I don't think Danny would do this if he didn't think the player he is getting back (hopefully Jackson) has a good shot of being the best player from the draft.

I truly do not get all of this Jackson love on here. He seems like a bigger, bit more well-rounded version of Marcus Smart to me, only with less defense and more athleticism and size/length. I don't see him ever being even a secondary scorer in the NBA. He's also really similar to Brown in a lot of ways, so why would we want Jackson, too?

I just don't see him as the type of player that this team needs going forward.

I see a top level athlete who plays strong defense and is very versatile.  Everybody sees that.  I also see a guy who, in my estimation, projects to be a lot better lead--or at least secondary--ball handler than he is given credit for.

He looks smooth with the ball in his hands.  He looks like the type of player who can get to where he wants on the floor easily.  He's got good vision, good handles, and a nice mid range game.

I don't think he got to showcase all his skills at Kansas, but I think he has top level NBA small forward talent.

Time will tell.


I see another Justise Winslow / Stanley Johnson etc.
Hes exponentially more athletic than either of those players.

Allegedly we were willing to give up the moon for Justise Winslow so this is right in line....
Jackson has a very high IQ, point forward skills, great rebounder, tough as nails.  Paul Pierce potential.  Yeah, I said it.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: jpotter33 on June 16, 2017, 07:11:03 PM
Kyler reporting that the deal will not go any farther until Fultz visits the Sixers and the Celtics can get some of the potential #3 guys in for workouts. "Not just" contingent on physical. We might be up in the air about nothing here.

Maybe Jackson will purposefully blow his C's workout because he doesn't want to be there  ;D
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: RJ87 on June 16, 2017, 07:11:27 PM
Guys this trade isn't for Butler. Think about what we looked like in the playoffs. We couldn't get a rebound and it was a layup drill for the Cavs.

I believe Ainge has asked the Pelicans what it would take to get Davis. If they said 3 #1s, AB, Crowder and KO...you do the deal.

If he can get Davis, that will entice either Hayward or PG13 to sign extension.

No way Ainge is making this deal to get younger. He knows we got killed on the boards and we need a shot blocker as well.
that would be amazing if true

LOL.

I respect the delusions people convince themselves of to cope. I get it.

But this is... It's like the night Demarcus got traded to New Orleans, everyone was convinced Boston was waiting in the wings to trump the offer last minute and then when it was all said and done, Boston wasn't even interested.

And by the way, remember that guy? No way the Pelicans bail on Davis before the see what Cousins and AD can do together. They played pretty well down the stretch.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 16, 2017, 07:12:38 PM
This is what I think happened

Jacksons individual workouts didnt go very well with the 76ers today

They called Danny for the #1 and offered #3 and a future 1st (guessing 2018 Lakers or 76ers 1st)

Danny celebrated ...as there is nobody he loves loves at 1 . Lets the 76ers and Lakers make the choice easier for him. Plus save cap space to go after hayward. Plus you can get two cracks at a top pick next season (another loaded draft)
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PickNRoll on June 16, 2017, 07:12:42 PM
I would so much rather have an elite pick and roll scorer type prospect than a guy who projects as a kind of Gerald Wallace / Joe Johnson / Andre Iguodala type player.

Look, if we were sitting at #3 after the lottery I'd be all about Josh Jackson.

Fultz is a better prospect. 

I know we already have a great lead scoring guard in Thomas, but he won't last forever.  To me the value of a prospect like Fultz is exponentially higher than a guy like Jackson.

The chances of him becoming another tweener who can't shoot (e.g. MKG, Winslow, Johnson, etc) seem a lot higher than the chance he becomes Kawhi Leonard.
If it helps, think of Jackson as a Paul Pierce type.  And Fultz as CJ McCollum.  That's in play.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Chris22 on June 16, 2017, 07:12:59 PM
I would take Fultz all day long.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Roy H. on June 16, 2017, 07:13:14 PM
Wouldn't it be wrong if Ainge did NOT explore what he could get for the pick?  It's due diligence.  The report that the Lakers are in love with Fultz just strengthens Ainge's justification for a big return.  If Ainge has a likely superstar on his hands in Fultz he won't trade him unless he knows he's getting a superstar back (maybe not on the initial deal, but in a subsequent one based on the additional assets). 

With the hype that Fultz is getting it scares me to lose him, but what the heck do I know?  I rely on highlights, talking heads and a basketball brain 1/20th the size of Danny's (a generous self-assessment).


To me, I just feel that the whole purpose of hoarding all these picks is to increase your chances of being in the position the Celts are already in, where you get to select a consensus #1 pick and add him to an already good team.

Why pass that up by trading down and picking up yet more future picks?  Are we going to defer to the future every year until Ainge retires?

Amen.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Rondo9 on June 16, 2017, 07:15:57 PM
Guys this trade isn't for Butler. Think about what we looked like in the playoffs. We couldn't get a rebound and it was a layup drill for the Cavs.

I believe Ainge has asked the Pelicans what it would take to get Davis. If they said 3 #1s, AB, Crowder and KO...you do the deal.

If he can get Davis, that will entice either Hayward or PG13 to sign extension.

No way Ainge is making this deal to get younger. He knows we got killed on the boards and we need a shot blocker as well.
that would be amazing if true

LOL.

I respect the delusions people convince themselves of to cope. I get it.

But this is... It's like the night Demarcus got traded to New Orleans, everyone was convinced Boston was waiting in the wings to trump the offer last minute and then when it was all said and done, Boston wasn't even interested.

And by the way, remember that guy? No way the Pelicans bail on Davis before the see what Cousins and AD can do together. They played pretty well down the stretch.

 ::)
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 16, 2017, 07:16:28 PM
Quote
[A day after Markelle Fultz talked up his fit next to D’Angelo Russell following his first workout for the Los Angeles Lakers, there are reports that president of basketball operations Magic Johnson wants to make such a pairing a reality. According to Jonathan Givony of DraftExpress, Johnson “‘is in love’ with Fultz” and might attempt to trade for the Boston Celtics No. 1 pick in the 2017 NBA Draft in order to select him. Givony reports that Johnson might try to do this with an offer of Julius Randle and the Lakers’ own No. 2 pick. 43 mins ago – via Silverscreenandroll.com


The drama keeps getting bolder....

Too bad celtics dont want randle
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: CelticsElite on June 16, 2017, 07:17:19 PM
Although I don't like jackson as much as the others, I recognize if he develops a midrange jumper, he has potential to be a top player in the NBA. His defense is elite and has a lot of good tools to work with
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: RJ87 on June 16, 2017, 07:17:22 PM
Wouldn't it be wrong if Ainge did NOT explore what he could get for the pick?  It's due diligence.  The report that the Lakers are in love with Fultz just strengthens Ainge's justification for a big return.  If Ainge has a likely superstar on his hands in Fultz he won't trade him unless he knows he's getting a superstar back (maybe not on the initial deal, but in a subsequent one based on the additional assets). 

With the hype that Fultz is getting it scares me to lose him, but what the heck do I know?  I rely on highlights, talking heads and a basketball brain 1/20th the size of Danny's (a generous self-assessment).


To me, I just feel that the whole purpose of hoarding all these picks is to increase your chances of being in the position the Celts are already in, where you get to select a consensus #1 pick and add him to an already good team.

Why pass that up by trading down and picking up yet more future picks?  Are we going to defer to the future every year until Ainge retires?

Amen.

If we spin the current assets we have into future assets and then spin those assets, than we'll always have assets. We'll have assets forever.

Ainge-ception.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PhoSita on June 16, 2017, 07:18:51 PM
I would so much rather have an elite pick and roll scorer type prospect than a guy who projects as a kind of Gerald Wallace / Joe Johnson / Andre Iguodala type player.

Look, if we were sitting at #3 after the lottery I'd be all about Josh Jackson.

Fultz is a better prospect. 

I know we already have a great lead scoring guard in Thomas, but he won't last forever.  To me the value of a prospect like Fultz is exponentially higher than a guy like Jackson.

The chances of him becoming another tweener who can't shoot (e.g. MKG, Winslow, Johnson, etc) seem a lot higher than the chance he becomes Kawhi Leonard.
If it helps, think of Jackson as a Paul Pierce type.  And Fultz as CJ McCollum.  That's in play.


I think in today's league the McCollum type prospect is more valuable.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PhoSita on June 16, 2017, 07:20:16 PM
I would so much rather have an elite pick and roll scorer type prospect than a guy who projects as a kind of Gerald Wallace / Joe Johnson / Andre Iguodala type player.

Look, if we were sitting at #3 after the lottery I'd be all about Josh Jackson.

Fultz is a better prospect. 

I know we already have a great lead scoring guard in Thomas, but he won't last forever.  To me the value of a prospect like Fultz is exponentially higher than a guy like Jackson.

The chances of him becoming another tweener who can't shoot (e.g. MKG, Winslow, Johnson, etc) seem a lot higher than the chance he becomes Kawhi Leonard.

You are most likely only sure of this because you've been reading it from Chad Ford and Johnathan Givony and the rest of the "experts" for months.  This doesn't make it reality.

Some basketball observers (myself) have been saying they see more potential in Josh Jackson than anyone else in this draft for a while now.

It's nice to see that Danny Ainge may be sharing those observations and projections.

Because sure, it couldn't possibly be based on my own observations.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Celtics18 on June 16, 2017, 07:22:16 PM
I would so much rather have an elite pick and roll scorer type prospect than a guy who projects as a kind of Gerald Wallace / Joe Johnson / Andre Iguodala type player.

Look, if we were sitting at #3 after the lottery I'd be all about Josh Jackson.

Fultz is a better prospect. 

I know we already have a great lead scoring guard in Thomas, but he won't last forever.  To me the value of a prospect like Fultz is exponentially higher than a guy like Jackson.

The chances of him becoming another tweener who can't shoot (e.g. MKG, Winslow, Johnson, etc) seem a lot higher than the chance he becomes Kawhi Leonard.
If it helps, think of Jackson as a Paul Pierce type.  And Fultz as CJ McCollum.  That's in play.


I think in today's league the McCollum type prospect is more valuable.

 Nope.  Prime Paul Pierce is more valuable than prime CJ McCollum, regardless of era.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: tazzmaniac on June 16, 2017, 07:23:29 PM
That Lakers pick probably wont even be top 5 next season. They have no incentive to tank anymore. They could win 30+ next season.
The Nets had no incentive to tank and they still finished last.  The Lakers were the worst defensive team last season.  Lou Williams was their best player and he was traded.  Magic has said he's focused on 2018 free agency.  The Lakers are going to be bottom 5 unless Ingram makes an all time best sophomore season improvement. 
Title: Re: C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Eja117 on June 16, 2017, 07:23:33 PM
Simmons and 3 or bust.
agreed
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Roy H. on June 16, 2017, 07:23:55 PM
I would so much rather have an elite pick and roll scorer type prospect than a guy who projects as a kind of Gerald Wallace / Joe Johnson / Andre Iguodala type player.

Look, if we were sitting at #3 after the lottery I'd be all about Josh Jackson.

Fultz is a better prospect. 

I know we already have a great lead scoring guard in Thomas, but he won't last forever.  To me the value of a prospect like Fultz is exponentially higher than a guy like Jackson.

The chances of him becoming another tweener who can't shoot (e.g. MKG, Winslow, Johnson, etc) seem a lot higher than the chance he becomes Kawhi Leonard.
If it helps, think of Jackson as a Paul Pierce type.  And Fultz as CJ McCollum.  That's in play.

Pierce with a lesser handle and jumper. I'd rather have McCollum.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: KGBirdBias on June 16, 2017, 07:25:36 PM
Guys this trade isn't for Butler. Think about what we looked like in the playoffs. We couldn't get a rebound and it was a layup drill for the Cavs.

I believe Ainge has asked the Pelicans what it would take to get Davis. If they said 3 #1s, AB, Crowder and KO...you do the deal.

If he can get Davis, that will entice either Hayward or PG13 to sign extension.

No way Ainge is making this deal to get younger. He knows we got killed on the boards and we need a shot blocker as well.
that would be amazing if true

LOL.

I respect the delusions people convince themselves of to cope. I get it.

But this is... It's like the night Demarcus got traded to New Orleans, everyone was convinced Boston was waiting in the wings to trump the offer last minute and then when it was all said and done, Boston wasn't even interested.

And by the way, remember that guy? No way the Pelicans bail on Davis before the see what Cousins and AD can do together. They played pretty well down the stretch.

You really think Ainge is taking a rookie at #3 without another move coming. He knows he needs a star and it's not just Hayward. He needed those other assets because he may not want to give up the 2018 Nets pick.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: RJ87 on June 16, 2017, 07:25:53 PM
I would so much rather have an elite pick and roll scorer type prospect than a guy who projects as a kind of Gerald Wallace / Joe Johnson / Andre Iguodala type player.

Look, if we were sitting at #3 after the lottery I'd be all about Josh Jackson.

Fultz is a better prospect. 

I know we already have a great lead scoring guard in Thomas, but he won't last forever.  To me the value of a prospect like Fultz is exponentially higher than a guy like Jackson.

The chances of him becoming another tweener who can't shoot (e.g. MKG, Winslow, Johnson, etc) seem a lot higher than the chance he becomes Kawhi Leonard.
If it helps, think of Jackson as a Paul Pierce type.  And Fultz as CJ McCollum.  That's in play.

Pierce with a lesser handle and jumper.

So.... Rudy Gay?
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Celtics18 on June 16, 2017, 07:27:06 PM
I would so much rather have an elite pick and roll scorer type prospect than a guy who projects as a kind of Gerald Wallace / Joe Johnson / Andre Iguodala type player.

Look, if we were sitting at #3 after the lottery I'd be all about Josh Jackson.

Fultz is a better prospect. 

I know we already have a great lead scoring guard in Thomas, but he won't last forever.  To me the value of a prospect like Fultz is exponentially higher than a guy like Jackson.

The chances of him becoming another tweener who can't shoot (e.g. MKG, Winslow, Johnson, etc) seem a lot higher than the chance he becomes Kawhi Leonard.

You are most likely only sure of this because you've been reading it from Chad Ford and Johnathan Givony and the rest of the "experts" for months.  This doesn't make it reality.

Some basketball observers (myself) have been saying they see more potential in Josh Jackson than anyone else in this draft for a while now.

It's nice to see that Danny Ainge may be sharing those observations and projections.

Because sure, it couldn't possibly be based on my own observations.

I guess.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: CelticSooner on June 16, 2017, 07:27:23 PM
That Lakers pick probably wont even be top 5 next season. They have no incentive to tank anymore. They could win 30+ next season.
The Nets had no incentive to tank and they still finished last.  The Lakers were the worst defensive team last season.  Lou Williams was their best player and he was traded.  Magic has said he's focused on 2018 free agency.  The Lakers are going to be bottom 5 unless Ingram makes an all time best sophomore season improvement.

Lakers were better than the Nets. Lakers will be better next season. I see anywhere from 5-10.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Eja117 on June 16, 2017, 07:29:54 PM
As far as I can tell the 76ers own their own and the Lakers next year. The year after that they have their own and Sacramentos. I want them all. I will also send them some 2nd rounders.


Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Dchuck on June 16, 2017, 07:30:02 PM
Let's just keep adding defensive players who can't shoot!  And more $0.75 players instead of $1.00 players.  We have such a hard time scoring.  We have no scorers or shooters.  Unreal!

Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PickNRoll on June 16, 2017, 07:30:14 PM
I would so much rather have an elite pick and roll scorer type prospect than a guy who projects as a kind of Gerald Wallace / Joe Johnson / Andre Iguodala type player.

Look, if we were sitting at #3 after the lottery I'd be all about Josh Jackson.

Fultz is a better prospect. 

I know we already have a great lead scoring guard in Thomas, but he won't last forever.  To me the value of a prospect like Fultz is exponentially higher than a guy like Jackson.

The chances of him becoming another tweener who can't shoot (e.g. MKG, Winslow, Johnson, etc) seem a lot higher than the chance he becomes Kawhi Leonard.
If it helps, think of Jackson as a Paul Pierce type.  And Fultz as CJ McCollum.  That's in play.


I think in today's league the McCollum type prospect is more valuable.
Than Paul Pierce?!  Crazy talk. All this offensive hoopla, 3 point shooting stuff has gone too far.  Paul Pierce. The Truth.  Elite 2-way wing, NBA finals MVP. Like Kawhi, Lebron, iguodala, Kobe, Durant.  6'4" scorers are much easier to find. 
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: RJ87 on June 16, 2017, 07:30:32 PM
Guys this trade isn't for Butler. Think about what we looked like in the playoffs. We couldn't get a rebound and it was a layup drill for the Cavs.

I believe Ainge has asked the Pelicans what it would take to get Davis. If they said 3 #1s, AB, Crowder and KO...you do the deal.

If he can get Davis, that will entice either Hayward or PG13 to sign extension.

No way Ainge is making this deal to get younger. He knows we got killed on the boards and we need a shot blocker as well.
that would be amazing if true

LOL.

I respect the delusions people convince themselves of to cope. I get it.

But this is... It's like the night Demarcus got traded to New Orleans, everyone was convinced Boston was waiting in the wings to trump the offer last minute and then when it was all said and done, Boston wasn't even interested.

And by the way, remember that guy? No way the Pelicans bail on Davis before the see what Cousins and AD can do together. They played pretty well down the stretch.

You really think Ainge is taking a rookie at #3 without another move coming. He knows he needs a star and it's not just Hayward. He needed those other assets because he may not want to give up the 2018 Nets pick.

Yes.

I think when Ainge gets fixated on a player, he gets bolder. I hope there's some master plan at work here and Ainge is the puppet master, but I don't believe that's the case.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: jpotter33 on June 16, 2017, 07:34:09 PM
I would so much rather have an elite pick and roll scorer type prospect than a guy who projects as a kind of Gerald Wallace / Joe Johnson / Andre Iguodala type player.

Look, if we were sitting at #3 after the lottery I'd be all about Josh Jackson.

Fultz is a better prospect. 

I know we already have a great lead scoring guard in Thomas, but he won't last forever.  To me the value of a prospect like Fultz is exponentially higher than a guy like Jackson.

The chances of him becoming another tweener who can't shoot (e.g. MKG, Winslow, Johnson, etc) seem a lot higher than the chance he becomes Kawhi Leonard.
If it helps, think of Jackson as a Paul Pierce type.  And Fultz as CJ McCollum.  That's in play.


I think in today's league the McCollum type prospect is more valuable.

 Nope.  Prime Paul Pierce is more valuable than prime CJ McCollum, regardless of era.

Are people really thinking Jackson is suddenly going to develop a shot and turn into a Paul Pierce level player? Unless he somehow develops a really reliable shot and takes that ridiculous hitch out of his shot, I don't see how he comes anywhere close to Pierce's level.

Isn't Smart a really big recent example of this fallacious notion of drafting players hoping they'll improve their shots? I still think Smart was a good pick given the options that we had at that time, but we literally have the first pick of the draft in this scenario. There's no use in gambling on something like that.

EDIT: I feel like Tatum is a much more apt Pierce comparison than Jackson.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PhoSita on June 16, 2017, 07:34:44 PM
I would so much rather have an elite pick and roll scorer type prospect than a guy who projects as a kind of Gerald Wallace / Joe Johnson / Andre Iguodala type player.

Look, if we were sitting at #3 after the lottery I'd be all about Josh Jackson.

Fultz is a better prospect. 

I know we already have a great lead scoring guard in Thomas, but he won't last forever.  To me the value of a prospect like Fultz is exponentially higher than a guy like Jackson.

The chances of him becoming another tweener who can't shoot (e.g. MKG, Winslow, Johnson, etc) seem a lot higher than the chance he becomes Kawhi Leonard.
If it helps, think of Jackson as a Paul Pierce type.  And Fultz as CJ McCollum.  That's in play.


I think in today's league the McCollum type prospect is more valuable.
Than Paul Pierce?!  Crazy talk. All this offensive hoopla, 3 point shooting stuff has gone too far.  Paul Pierce. The Truth.  Elite 2-way wing, NBA finals MVP. Like Kawhi, Lebron, iguodala, Kobe, Durant.  6'4" scorers are much easier to find.


Look, I love Paul Pierce.  Love him.

But it's a pick and roll league now.

Pierce was best as an iso scorer, though he developed as a playmaker and defender later in his career.

If we're talking in a vacuum, I'll take the potential elite pick and roll scorer with a nice jumper over the big wing with iso / playmaker potential.


Again, chances are Jackson does not turn into Kawhi Leonard or anything like it.  More likely he's Harrison Barnes, or maybe Andre Iguodala.

It's so much easier to "make it" as a pick and roll scorer with nice handles and a good jumper than to be the swiss army knife freak athlete.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: mef730 on June 16, 2017, 07:38:26 PM
Guys this trade isn't for Butler. Think about what we looked like in the playoffs. We couldn't get a rebound and it was a layup drill for the Cavs.

I believe Ainge has asked the Pelicans what it would take to get Davis. If they said 3 #1s, AB, Crowder and KO...you do the deal.

If he can get Davis, that will entice either Hayward or PG13 to sign extension.

No way Ainge is making this deal to get younger. He knows we got killed on the boards and we need a shot blocker as well.
that would be amazing if true

LOL.

I respect the delusions people convince themselves of to cope. I get it.

But this is... It's like the night Demarcus got traded to New Orleans, everyone was convinced Boston was waiting in the wings to trump the offer last minute and then when it was all said and done, Boston wasn't even interested.

And by the way, remember that guy? No way the Pelicans bail on Davis before the see what Cousins and AD can do together. They played pretty well down the stretch.

You really think Ainge is taking a rookie at #3 without another move coming. He knows he needs a star and it's not just Hayward. He needed those other assets because he may not want to give up the 2018 Nets pick.

Yes.

I think when Ainge gets fixated on a player, he gets bolder. I hope there's some master plan at work here and Ainge is the puppet master, but I don't believe that's the case.

I don't think this is a Winslow type situation. We were trading up then, and it's easier to get stupid with a player in that direction.

Mike
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PhoSita on June 16, 2017, 07:38:48 PM
If the idea is that the Lakers are gonna take Fox or Jackson at #2 and the Celts will take Lonzo Ball at #3, I could talk myself into it.

I think Fultz is a much higher floor and higher ceiling prospect, but Lonzo Ball is fun and interesting, at least, and some people have made coherent arguments for why he might be the best prospect in this draft.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Moranis on June 16, 2017, 07:39:40 PM
Clearly Ainge doesn't believe Fultz is a transcendent player or he thinks there are 2 others in the draft.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: BitterJim on June 16, 2017, 07:41:22 PM
I would so much rather have an elite pick and roll scorer type prospect than a guy who projects as a kind of Gerald Wallace / Joe Johnson / Andre Iguodala type player.

Look, if we were sitting at #3 after the lottery I'd be all about Josh Jackson.

Fultz is a better prospect. 

I know we already have a great lead scoring guard in Thomas, but he won't last forever.  To me the value of a prospect like Fultz is exponentially higher than a guy like Jackson.

The chances of him becoming another tweener who can't shoot (e.g. MKG, Winslow, Johnson, etc) seem a lot higher than the chance he becomes Kawhi Leonard.
If it helps, think of Jackson as a Paul Pierce type.  And Fultz as CJ McCollum.  That's in play.


I think in today's league the McCollum type prospect is more valuable.

 Nope.  Prime Paul Pierce is more valuable than prime CJ McCollum, regardless of era.

Are people really thinking Jackson is suddenly going to develop a shot and turn into a Paul Pierce level player? Unless he somehow develops a really reliable shot and takes that ridiculous hitch out of his shot, I don't see how he comes anywhere close to Pierce's level.

Isn't Smart a really big recent example of this fallacious notion of drafting players hoping they'll improve their shots? I still think Smart was a good pick given the options that we had at that time, but we literally have the first pick of the draft in this scenario. There's no use in gambling on something like that.

EDIT: I feel like Tatum is a much more apt Pierce comparison than Jackson.

I like Andre Iguodala as a Jackson comp much more than Pierce
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PhoSita on June 16, 2017, 07:42:52 PM
I would so much rather have an elite pick and roll scorer type prospect than a guy who projects as a kind of Gerald Wallace / Joe Johnson / Andre Iguodala type player.

Look, if we were sitting at #3 after the lottery I'd be all about Josh Jackson.

Fultz is a better prospect. 

I know we already have a great lead scoring guard in Thomas, but he won't last forever.  To me the value of a prospect like Fultz is exponentially higher than a guy like Jackson.

The chances of him becoming another tweener who can't shoot (e.g. MKG, Winslow, Johnson, etc) seem a lot higher than the chance he becomes Kawhi Leonard.
If it helps, think of Jackson as a Paul Pierce type.  And Fultz as CJ McCollum.  That's in play.


I think in today's league the McCollum type prospect is more valuable.

 Nope.  Prime Paul Pierce is more valuable than prime CJ McCollum, regardless of era.

Are people really thinking Jackson is suddenly going to develop a shot and turn into a Paul Pierce level player? Unless he somehow develops a really reliable shot and takes that ridiculous hitch out of his shot, I don't see how he comes anywhere close to Pierce's level.

Isn't Smart a really big recent example of this fallacious notion of drafting players hoping they'll improve their shots? I still think Smart was a good pick given the options that we had at that time, but we literally have the first pick of the draft in this scenario. There's no use in gambling on something like that.

EDIT: I feel like Tatum is a much more apt Pierce comparison than Jackson.

I like Andre Iguodala as a Jackson comp much more than Pierce

Yep, and I LOVE Andre Iguodala.

But not when the Celts could draft somebody who compares favorably to Dame Lillard, James Harden, or Gilbert Arenas (prime) instead.


Iggy's whole deal, his whole career, is that he was a really super nice player who couldn't be the best player on a serious team.  That's not the kind of player you want to take at the top of the draft.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: fairweatherfan on June 16, 2017, 07:46:05 PM
Danny's earned my trust on the trade front, but I'm worried about this. Here's some thoughts:

- I was starting to get really into Fultz as a Celtic. It would be a bummer to lose out on him, even though Jackson or whoever is also a stud.

- We don't need to be growing our list of assets, we need to be consolidating them.

- But, if this is the first move and we have a deal lined up to flip most of these assets into a real superstar, I'd be more onboard. No real indication of that right now, though.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Ilikesports17 on June 16, 2017, 07:47:43 PM
Danny's earned my trust on the trade front, but I'm worried about this. Here's some thoughts:

- I was starting to get really into Fultz as a Celtic. It would be a bummer to lose out on him, even though Jackson or whoever is also a stud.

- We don't need to be growing our list of assets, we need to be consolidating them.

- But, if this is the first move and we have a deal lined up to flip most of these assets into a real superstar, I'd be more onboard. No real indication of that right now, though.
thats about where I am.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PhoSita on June 16, 2017, 07:47:53 PM
Danny's earned my trust on the trade front, but I'm worried about this. Here's some thoughts:

- I was starting to get really into Fultz as a Celtic. It would be a bummer to lose out on him, even though Jackson or whoever is also a stud.

- We don't need to be growing our list of assets, we need to be consolidating them.

- But, if this is the first move and we have a deal lined up to flip most of these assets into a real superstar, I'd be more onboard. No real indication of that right now, though.


I was really buying into the notion of having a Flat-top-instead-of-beard version of Harden.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: hpantazo on June 16, 2017, 07:48:23 PM
Is the Lakers 2018 first protected?
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Dchuck on June 16, 2017, 07:48:53 PM
Think of how good Fultz is!

Philly is willing to part with all these picks for him.  They would be happy to give up all those assets for him, because they feel he is that special!  If Fultz and Jackson are "so close" talent wise, why doesn't Philly just draft Jackson and keep all those picks? 

Oh, it's because Philly realizes an offensive talent with a wide range of tools is harder to come by than another MKG/Winslow/Stanley Johnson/Iguadola etc.  you can find those guys multiple times over in every draft.

How do u find time for him if Jaylen is supposed to get a bump in playing time?  What if Hayward comes on board?  What if LA takes Jackson?  What if we get LA's 1st pick and it's #8?  Or Embiid  stays healthy all year, Fultz is the real deal with Simmons and they make the 8th seed in playoffs and we're stuck with another middle 1st rd pick?

All these picks mean absolutely nothing if you have a potential star in your lap!!
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: tazzmaniac on June 16, 2017, 07:49:36 PM
That Lakers pick probably wont even be top 5 next season. They have no incentive to tank anymore. They could win 30+ next season.
The Nets had no incentive to tank and they still finished last.  The Lakers were the worst defensive team last season.  Lou Williams was their best player and he was traded.  Magic has said he's focused on 2018 free agency.  The Lakers are going to be bottom 5 unless Ingram makes an all time best sophomore season improvement.

Lakers were better than the Nets. Lakers will be better next season. I see anywhere from 5-10.
The Lakers started out 10-10 and some on here were talking about them making the playoffs.  They finished 26-56 and that included winning 5 of their last 6 games.  Lou Williams is gone and Nick Young will probably be gone too.  The former being the predominant reason that they finished ahead of the Nets.  When Williams was on court, their offensive rating was 107.9.  When he wasn't, it was 100.9 which was worse than Nets offense.   
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PhoSita on June 16, 2017, 07:49:44 PM
Is the Lakers 2018 first protected?

I don't believe so.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: DKClassic on June 16, 2017, 07:50:02 PM
I feel like danny just wants to pull some move that he sees as Auerbachian for some reason
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PhoSita on June 16, 2017, 07:50:07 PM
Think of how good Fultz is!

Philly is willing to part with all these picks for him.  They would be happy to give up all those assets for him, because they feel he is that special!  If Fultz and Jackson are "so close" talent wise, why doesn't Philly just draft Jackson and keep all those picks? 

Oh, it's because Philly realizes an offensive talent with a wide range of tools is harder to come by than another MKG/Winslow/Stanley Johnson/Iguadola etc.  you can find those guys multiple times over in every draft.

Precisely.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: tazzmaniac on June 16, 2017, 07:51:39 PM
Is the Lakers 2018 first protected?
Nope. 
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: fairweatherfan on June 16, 2017, 07:51:43 PM
Is the Lakers 2018 first protected?

I don't believe so.

It's definitely not.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: ThaPreacher on June 16, 2017, 07:53:04 PM
All, stop worrying. Seriously, no need to panic.

Since we're all speculating here, I'm leaning very strongly toward, "Lots of smoke, no fire."

It's important to remember one thing: Everything we hear in the media is exactly what Danny wants us to hear. Full stop. Danny is a master at playing the media.

I still think we're keeping #1 but, if DA is seriously thinking about trading, he must float a rumor to drive up the value of the pick. And if the pick is going to Philly, which I highly doubt, it's going to be for this year's #3 and at least two of the following: Sixers 18, Lakers 18 and Sac 19.

Remember, you're living in The Matrix and Danny's the oracle. He's telling people exactly what he wants them to hear (or what they need to hear). Have a cookie.

Mike

Seriously, fella, yer gonna make me pee myself. Too funny. Too bloody funny.

"This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes."
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: CELTICSofBOSTON on June 16, 2017, 07:53:14 PM
Who else is legitimately p---ed?
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PickNRoll on June 16, 2017, 07:54:19 PM
I would so much rather have an elite pick and roll scorer type prospect than a guy who projects as a kind of Gerald Wallace / Joe Johnson / Andre Iguodala type player.

Look, if we were sitting at #3 after the lottery I'd be all about Josh Jackson.

Fultz is a better prospect. 

I know we already have a great lead scoring guard in Thomas, but he won't last forever.  To me the value of a prospect like Fultz is exponentially higher than a guy like Jackson.

The chances of him becoming another tweener who can't shoot (e.g. MKG, Winslow, Johnson, etc) seem a lot higher than the chance he becomes Kawhi Leonard.
If it helps, think of Jackson as a Paul Pierce type.  And Fultz as CJ McCollum.  That's in play.


I think in today's league the McCollum type prospect is more valuable.

 Nope.  Prime Paul Pierce is more valuable than prime CJ McCollum, regardless of era.

Are people really thinking Jackson is suddenly going to develop a shot and turn into a Paul Pierce level player? Unless he somehow develops a really reliable shot and takes that ridiculous hitch out of his shot, I don't see how he comes anywhere close to Pierce's level.

Isn't Smart a really big recent example of this fallacious notion of drafting players hoping they'll improve their shots? I still think Smart was a good pick given the options that we had at that time, but we literally have the first pick of the draft in this scenario. There's no use in gambling on something like that.

EDIT: I feel like Tatum is a much more apt Pierce comparison than Jackson.
But Jackson shot a better % from 3 than Fultz over the 2nd half of the season.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: mctyson on June 16, 2017, 07:56:08 PM
Clearly Ainge doesn't believe Fultz is a transcendent player or he thinks there are 2 others in the draft.

Fultz is not a "transcendent" player, whatever that means nowadays.  If we are talking about perennial MVPs...those guys come around 5 times every 20-25 years, and they don't lead teams to 9-22 records in college.  Can he be great? Maybe.  Is he James Harden redux? Maybe.  Is James Harden redux the centerpiece to an NBA Champion.  Probably not.

I think Ainge knows this.  Picking Fultz is the safe play. Ainge doesn't like safe.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: the_gunner on June 16, 2017, 07:56:54 PM
I'm a bit ambivalent with this trade, as I'm really looking forward to see the Celtics get a star like Fultz.

On the other hand, if we can get Jackson and at the same time Davis, then I think we will be contenders for years to come and maybe be a real force for many years to come.

Is it even possible to make a trade in which we can get Davis without giving up the core of our team? What kind of a trade would that be?
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: BitterJim on June 16, 2017, 07:57:52 PM
I would so much rather have an elite pick and roll scorer type prospect than a guy who projects as a kind of Gerald Wallace / Joe Johnson / Andre Iguodala type player.

Look, if we were sitting at #3 after the lottery I'd be all about Josh Jackson.

Fultz is a better prospect. 

I know we already have a great lead scoring guard in Thomas, but he won't last forever.  To me the value of a prospect like Fultz is exponentially higher than a guy like Jackson.

The chances of him becoming another tweener who can't shoot (e.g. MKG, Winslow, Johnson, etc) seem a lot higher than the chance he becomes Kawhi Leonard.
If it helps, think of Jackson as a Paul Pierce type.  And Fultz as CJ McCollum.  That's in play.


I think in today's league the McCollum type prospect is more valuable.

 Nope.  Prime Paul Pierce is more valuable than prime CJ McCollum, regardless of era.

Are people really thinking Jackson is suddenly going to develop a shot and turn into a Paul Pierce level player? Unless he somehow develops a really reliable shot and takes that ridiculous hitch out of his shot, I don't see how he comes anywhere close to Pierce's level.

Isn't Smart a really big recent example of this fallacious notion of drafting players hoping they'll improve their shots? I still think Smart was a good pick given the options that we had at that time, but we literally have the first pick of the draft in this scenario. There's no use in gambling on something like that.

EDIT: I feel like Tatum is a much more apt Pierce comparison than Jackson.

I like Andre Iguodala as a Jackson comp much more than Pierce

Yep, and I LOVE Andre Iguodala.

But not when the Celts could draft somebody who compares favorably to Dame Lillard, James Harden, or Gilbert Arenas (prime) instead.


Iggy's whole deal, his whole career, is that he was a really super nice player who couldn't be the best player on a serious team.  That's not the kind of player you want to take at the top of the draft.

Agreed 100%. I always hated playing against him in Philly because of his D on Pierce.  Iguodala would be a good outcome for a #3 pick (and if he became "Iguodala with a good shot", even better), but we have a chance for a transcendent player.  It would take a lot (minimum of #3, better of Lakers/76ers next year, and better of Kings/76ers in 2019) for me to even listen if I were Danny

We'll see, though.  "Insiders" have been saying a lot about Danny being "close" on deals for the past year or so with nothing coming of it, so I'm just kind of ignoring the noise for now.  If Bulpett says something, I'll start taking seriously, but until then it's just an interesting anecdote
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Dchuck on June 16, 2017, 07:58:00 PM
We're gonna be a bunch of scrappy, high motor, defensive hustlers with one scorer/slash playmaker! 

So instead of GSW and Cle scoring 115-130 on us they'll avg 100-115!  While we barely reach 90!  Woohoo! 
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: BitterJim on June 16, 2017, 07:58:58 PM
Is the Lakers 2018 first protected?

Yes.  It became an unprotected pick when it failed to convey this year.  The Kings' 2019 pick is also unprotected (what the heck were the Kings thinking on that trade?)

Edit: That should be "No".  The Lakers pick is unprotected
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Ilikesports17 on June 16, 2017, 08:00:15 PM
Is the Lakers 2018 first protected?

Yes.  It became an unprotected pick when it failed to convey this year.  The Kings' 2019 pick is also unprotected (what the heck were the Kings thinking on that trade?)
that was lowkey one of the dumbest trades of all time.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: BitterJim on June 16, 2017, 08:00:34 PM
Who else is legitimately p---ed?

Getting "p---ed" about something that someone is rumored to be considering is a waste of energy
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PhoSita on June 16, 2017, 08:00:59 PM


We'll see, though.  "Insiders" have been saying a lot about Danny being "close" on deals for the past year or so with nothing coming of it, so I'm just kind of ignoring the noise for now.  If Bulpett says something, I'll start taking seriously, but until then it's just an interesting anecdote

The thing that gives me pause is Lowe seeming pretty sure it's close to happening.

I'm really hoping you're right and it's just another deal that will have been "very close" but won't actually happen.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: JOMVP on June 16, 2017, 08:03:04 PM
Who else is legitimately p---ed?

I got a 30 page paper due at the end of next week, and I can't even begin to concentrate on it because this is the only thing on my mind. Ugh.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PickNRoll on June 16, 2017, 08:03:07 PM
Clearly Ainge doesn't believe Fultz is a transcendent player or he thinks there are 2 others in the draft.

Fultz is not a "transcendent" player, whatever that means nowadays.  If we are talking about perennial MVPs...those guys come around 5 times every 20-25 years, and they don't lead teams to 9-22 records in college.  Can he be great? Maybe.  Is he James Harden redux? Maybe.  Is James Harden redux the centerpiece to an NBA Champion.  Probably not.

I think Ainge knows this.  Picking Fultz is the safe play. Ainge doesn't like safe.
Exactly.  Think of it this way.  Is he more transcendent than Ray Allen?   He's the same size, not as good a shooter, worse handle, worse defender worse athlete.   More dynamic going to the rim.  Maybe a little more polished mid range.  So what is he transcending?
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: JOMVP on June 16, 2017, 08:03:46 PM


We'll see, though.  "Insiders" have been saying a lot about Danny being "close" on deals for the past year or so with nothing coming of it, so I'm just kind of ignoring the noise for now.  If Bulpett says something, I'll start taking seriously, but until then it's just an interesting anecdote

The thing that gives me pause is Lowe seeming pretty sure it's close to happening.

I'm really hoping you're right and it's just another deal that will have been "very close" but won't actually happen.

And the fact that Fultz had his second meeting with Celtics cancelled and is heading to Philadelphia as early as tomorrow. This thing is done.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Dino Pitino on June 16, 2017, 08:04:45 PM
18 pages later and I'm pretty sure the people attached to Fultz and upset would've been just as attached to Joe Barry Carroll, i.e., they've completely sold themselves on the Fultz groupthink and can't rearrange their heads to ponder other possibilities.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: tazzmaniac on June 16, 2017, 08:05:19 PM
Think of how good Fultz is!

Philly is willing to part with all these picks for him.  They would be happy to give up all those assets for him, because they feel he is that special!  If Fultz and Jackson are "so close" talent wise, why doesn't Philly just draft Jackson and keep all those picks? 

Oh, it's because Philly realizes an offensive talent with a wide range of tools is harder to come by than another MKG/Winslow/Stanley Johnson/Iguadola etc.  you can find those guys multiple times over in every draft.

Precisely.
We don't know what the parameters of the trade are but there is a much higher chance of Ainge fleecing Colangelo than the reverse.  If it really is the #3, Lakers 2018 and Kings 2019, Colangelo is making a heck of a gamble on Embiid's health and the potential of Simmons and Fultz.   
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: CELTICSofBOSTON on June 16, 2017, 08:06:58 PM
Who else is legitimately p---ed?

Getting "p---ed" about something that someone is rumored to be considering is a waste of energy

You're right.  Thanks for the wisdom.
Tp.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Dchuck on June 16, 2017, 08:10:49 PM
Think of how good Fultz is!

Philly is willing to part with all these picks for him.  They would be happy to give up all those assets for him, because they feel he is that special!  If Fultz and Jackson are "so close" talent wise, why doesn't Philly just draft Jackson and keep all those picks? 

Oh, it's because Philly realizes an offensive talent with a wide range of tools is harder to come by than another MKG/Winslow/Stanley Johnson/Iguadola etc.  you can find those guys multiple times over in every draft.

Precisely.
We don't know what the parameters of the trade are but there is a much higher chance of Ainge fleecing Colangelo than the reverse.  If it really is the #3, Lakers 2018 and Kings 2019, Colangelo is making a heck of a gamble on Embiid's health and the potential of Simmons and Fultz.

All picks/transactions are a gamble.  But even Colangelo understands, at some point u need to cash in.  I wouldn't bet on Colangelo getting fleeced.  Does quality over quantity = Fleecing?
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 16, 2017, 08:12:06 PM
If it goes through , fantastic haul by Danny

Quote
Steve Kyler: So hearing the three this year, a future 76ers first and Lakers 2018 on the table to Celtics for the number one… thats a ton of value 42 mins ago – via Twitter stevekylerNBA

Only way Celts get screwed in this deal is ,if the Lakers trade for PG13 and Lakers dont sukk next season
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: tazzmaniac on June 16, 2017, 08:12:42 PM
Is the Lakers 2018 first protected?

Yes.  It became an unprotected pick when it failed to convey this year.  The Kings' 2019 pick is also unprotected (what the heck were the Kings thinking on that trade?)
that was lowkey one of the dumbest trades of all time.
Yep.  The pick swap from 3 to 5 was part of that trade too.  The Kings gave up a lot to free up cap space and then didn't get their main target.  The MCW trade for the Lakers pick looks mighty nice too. 
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: ThaPreacher on June 16, 2017, 08:12:54 PM
I'm very back and forth on this type of deal.  Fultz has been the guy for so long you get excited and set on that player as a future star for your team.  I just don't see any of the other guys being stars. 

If this deal is to move it for a star player like butler and get a lottery pick out of it as well I understand it but it doesn't mean I like it.  I just don't think adding Butler and Griffin put the Celtics on par with Golden State. 

Adding up the rumors it looks like it's possible Danny has another deal lined up.  I can see the below happening and I'm not sure how I feel.

#1 for #3 and the best philly pick next year out of the Lakers and their pick.

Crowder and #3 to Chicago for Butler and 16.  Sign Griffin. That's a fun team to watch but definitely not good enough to win a championship.  I'd rather have Fultz. 

PG - IT
SG - Bradley
SF - Butler
PF - Griffin
C - Horford

Bench
Brown
Smart
Yabu
Zizic
Rozier
1st round pick

What if Philly used the pick on Ball or Jackson instead of Fultz!

And "what if" the ring wasn't  actually thrown into the fires of Mt. Doom?
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: BringToughnessBack on June 16, 2017, 08:14:21 PM
This deal looks like as good as a sure thing and done like Arod to the Sox many years ago.! Leak its done and watch other's offer more and more. Wouldnt shock me to see Lakers deal with Danny. And send us Ingram and the 2 for the 1. If Danny truly does not want Fultz and we know Lakers do, he gets his man at 2. If the Sixers want Fultz so bad, they need to up deal to not just picks but one of Simmons and pick or Saric and picks cause the Lakers are oferring player and pick. Danny is definitely a business development specialist and he is playing everyone perfectly right now. Danny is one person I would never want at my poker table.














Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: fairweatherfan on June 16, 2017, 08:14:57 PM
I'm very back and forth on this type of deal.  Fultz has been the guy for so long you get excited and set on that player as a future star for your team.  I just don't see any of the other guys being stars. 

If this deal is to move it for a star player like butler and get a lottery pick out of it as well I understand it but it doesn't mean I like it.  I just don't think adding Butler and Griffin put the Celtics on par with Golden State. 

Adding up the rumors it looks like it's possible Danny has another deal lined up.  I can see the below happening and I'm not sure how I feel.

#1 for #3 and the best philly pick next year out of the Lakers and their pick.

Crowder and #3 to Chicago for Butler and 16.  Sign Griffin. That's a fun team to watch but definitely not good enough to win a championship.  I'd rather have Fultz. 

PG - IT
SG - Bradley
SF - Butler
PF - Griffin
C - Horford

Bench
Brown
Smart
Yabu
Zizic
Rozier
1st round pick

What if Philly used the pick on Ball or Jackson instead of Fultz!

And "what if" the ring wasn't  actually thrown into the fires of Mt. Doom?

Why didn't Danny just send the eagles into Philly and throw Fultz into Mt. Doom right away?
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: BitterJim on June 16, 2017, 08:16:11 PM
This deal looks like as good as a sure thing and done like Arod to the Sox many years ago.! Leak its done and watch other's offer more and more. Wouldnt shock me to see Lakers deal with Danny. And send us Ingram and the 2 for the 1. If Danny truly does not want Fultz and we know Lakers do, he gets his man at 2. If the Sixers want Fultz so bad, they need to up deal to not just picks but one of Simmons and pick or Saric and picks....Danny is one person I would never want at my poker table.

I'm not sure how I'd feel about that.  Throw in Nance and I'd have to think very hard about it
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: dreamgreen on June 16, 2017, 08:16:31 PM
They have to get Simmons or at least Saric in the deal. More draft picks just doesn't excite me and I don't want to draft another guy that can't shoot!! Not really liking anything I'm hearing at this point. Getting more cap space can be done in other ways add to that getting Hayward of Griffin could make us a top 3 team but unlikely a championship team.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 16, 2017, 08:18:56 PM
Quote
Talks are reportedly far enough along that Fultz could meet with the Sixers in Philadelphia on Saturday, according to the report. A source said he was supposed to have a second meeting with the Celtics on Saturday. However, the source said that meeting was canceled.

Markelle will meet the 76ets on Sat
Celtics cancel meeting with Markelle

This deal looking like it will clear
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: jpotter33 on June 16, 2017, 08:20:20 PM
This deal looks like as good as a sure thing and done like Arod to the Sox many years ago.! Leak its done and watch other's offer more and more. Wouldnt shock me to see Lakers deal with Danny. And send us Ingram and the 2 for the 1. If Danny truly does not want Fultz and we know Lakers do, he gets his man at 2. If the Sixers want Fultz so bad, they need to up deal to not just picks but one of Simmons and pick or Saric and picks....Danny is one person I would never want at my poker table.

I'm not sure how I'd feel about that.  Throw in Nance and I'd have to think very hard about it

That'd leave you with Brown, Ingram, Jackson, and Nance, and we're also wanting to sign Hayward this summer. I know you need several athletic, two-way wings/swings/forwards in the modern NBA, but come on lol

I still say the Simmons + #3 for #1 and AB deal makes too much sense for both teams.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: BringToughnessBack on June 16, 2017, 08:20:33 PM
Quote
Talks are reportedly far enough along that Fultz could meet with the Sixers in Philadelphia on Saturday, according to the report. A source said he was supposed to have a second meeting with the Celtics on Saturday. However, the source said that meeting was canceled.
[/size]

Perfect. Get the Sixers excited and pull plug at last minute when Magic offers an insanse deal with actual players.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Ilikesports17 on June 16, 2017, 08:20:55 PM
This deal looks like as good as a sure thing and done like Arod to the Sox many years ago.! Leak its done and watch other's offer more and more. Wouldnt shock me to see Lakers deal with Danny. And send us Ingram and the 2 for the 1. If Danny truly does not want Fultz and we know Lakers do, he gets his man at 2. If the Sixers want Fultz so bad, they need to up deal to not just picks but one of Simmons and pick or Saric and picks....Danny is one person I would never want at my poker table.

I'm not sure how I'd feel about that.  Throw in Nance and I'd have to think very hard about it

That'd leave you with Brown, Ingram, Jackson, and Nance, and we're also wanting to sign Hayward this summer. I know you need several athletic, two-way wings/swings/forwards in the modern NBA, but come on lol

I still say the Simmons + #3 for #1 and AB deal makes too much sense for both teams.
Philly doesnt do that tho.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Ilikesports17 on June 16, 2017, 08:21:27 PM
Quote
Talks are reportedly far enough along that Fultz could meet with the Sixers in Philadelphia on Saturday, according to the report. A source said he was supposed to have a second meeting with the Celtics on Saturday. However, the source said that meeting was canceled.
[/size]

Perfect. Get the Sixers excited and pull plug at last minute when Magic offers an insanse deal with actually players.
Fultz is reportedly still on to meet with Boston tomorrow.

this is all very confusing.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: biggs on June 16, 2017, 08:22:03 PM
Think of how good Fultz is!

Philly is willing to part with all these picks for him.  They would be happy to give up all those assets for him, because they feel he is that special!  If Fultz and Jackson are "so close" talent wise, why doesn't Philly just draft Jackson and keep all those picks? 

Oh, it's because Philly realizes an offensive talent with a wide range of tools is harder to come by than another MKG/Winslow/Stanley Johnson/Iguadola etc.  you can find those guys multiple times over in every draft.

How do u find time for him if Jaylen is supposed to get a bump in playing time?  What if Hayward comes on board?  What if LA takes Jackson?  What if we get LA's 1st pick and it's #8?  Or Embiid  stays healthy all year, Fultz is the real deal with Simmons and they make the 8th seed in playoffs and we're stuck with another middle 1st rd pick?

All these picks mean absolutely nothing if you have a potential star in your lap!!

Agreed my friend. If LA is so high on Fultz and Jackson, why would they take Lonzo? They could really complicate things. In fact, LA has to take Ball at 2 for this to work.

I'd rather have a future Superstar than another wing player.

If we get another "treasure trove" trade haul of draft picks and flip them for a PG-13/Butler type, I would have to think that Blake would be the primary free agent target over Hayward, (at least in this scenario).

Adding PG13, Griffin and Jackson to the team sounds exciting, but I'm not sure they beat GS, and we're giving away any other potential lottery picks.

We would essentially be rolling the dice with Jackson, Brown, Zizic, Nader and Smart as our future core.

If we add George, he immediately becomes our best player and the alpha dog/cornerstone of our franchise. I'm not sure that any of Jackson/Brown/Zizic/Nader/Smart have the potential to be the next Paul George, while Fultz, even as a PG seems to have Superstar potential.

As much as I love the current group of youngsters that we have, I would rather add Fultz and another lotto pick next year to that group, while signing Hayward.

I posted in another thread recently about whether or not Danny would trade our current potential big three before they lose value ala KG/PP, and someone mentioned that if we're really modeling after San Antonio, that maybe Horford would take a team friendly deal at that point to stay on as a role player, keeping us in sustained success, like the Spurs.

Its hard to decide how you want to build you current team when your this good, but probably won't win it all now. I guess if we want the sustained success you go for older players that would be cheap when the young guys are up for big money, or in this case a declining player like Griffin over an ascending player like Hayward.

Who know? Maybe Danny has a hunch that we don't. Oh well, what a great time to be a fan!!!
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 16, 2017, 08:23:57 PM
Quote
Talks are reportedly far enough along that Fultz could meet with the Sixers in Philadelphia on Saturday, according to the report. A source said he was supposed to have a second meeting with the Celtics on Saturday. However, the source said that meeting was canceled.
[/size]

Perfect. Get the Sixers excited and pull plug at last minute when Magic offers an insanse deal with actually players.
Fultz is reportedly still on to meet with Boston tomorrow.

this is all very confusing.

As I posted above from philly.com

Celtics have cancelled tomorrows meeting with Markelle
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Celtics18 on June 16, 2017, 08:25:03 PM
I would so much rather have an elite pick and roll scorer type prospect than a guy who projects as a kind of Gerald Wallace / Joe Johnson / Andre Iguodala type player.

Look, if we were sitting at #3 after the lottery I'd be all about Josh Jackson.

Fultz is a better prospect. 

I know we already have a great lead scoring guard in Thomas, but he won't last forever.  To me the value of a prospect like Fultz is exponentially higher than a guy like Jackson.

The chances of him becoming another tweener who can't shoot (e.g. MKG, Winslow, Johnson, etc) seem a lot higher than the chance he becomes Kawhi Leonard.
If it helps, think of Jackson as a Paul Pierce type.  And Fultz as CJ McCollum.  That's in play.


I think in today's league the McCollum type prospect is more valuable.
Than Paul Pierce?!  Crazy talk. All this offensive hoopla, 3 point shooting stuff has gone too far.  Paul Pierce. The Truth.  Elite 2-way wing, NBA finals MVP. Like Kawhi, Lebron, iguodala, Kobe, Durant.  6'4" scorers are much easier to find.


Look, I love Paul Pierce.  Love him.

But it's a pick and roll league now.

Pierce was best as an iso scorer, though he developed as a playmaker and defender later in his career.

If we're talking in a vacuum, I'll take the potential elite pick and roll scorer with a nice jumper over the big wing with iso / playmaker potential.


Again, chances are Jackson does not turn into Kawhi Leonard or anything like it.  More likely he's Harrison Barnes, or maybe Andre Iguodala.

It's so much easier to "make it" as a pick and roll scorer with nice handles and a good jumper than to be the swiss army knife freak athlete.

Now you'd be happy with a player who just "makes it"?  Maybe you mean something different by that phrase than how I'm interpreting it.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: guava_wrench on June 16, 2017, 08:25:15 PM
They have to get Simmons or at least Saric in the deal. More draft picks just doesn't excite me and I don't want to draft another guy that can't shoot!! Not really liking anything I'm hearing at this point. Getting more cap space can be done in other ways add to that getting Hayward of Griffin could make us a top 3 team but unlikely a championship team.
We don't need any actual salary back if the point is making space for a max FA. The point may be to get high value future picks that would reduce our payroll and cap holds before the free agency period. It really would be tragic though if we walk away empty handed from the FA period.

While the #1 pick in the draft this year obviously is much more valuable than trading for lottery picks (we should avoid mixing and matching "#1" in draft with with "LA's #1"as it gives the false impression that those two assets have similar values.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: jpotter33 on June 16, 2017, 08:25:36 PM
This deal looks like as good as a sure thing and done like Arod to the Sox many years ago.! Leak its done and watch other's offer more and more. Wouldnt shock me to see Lakers deal with Danny. And send us Ingram and the 2 for the 1. If Danny truly does not want Fultz and we know Lakers do, he gets his man at 2. If the Sixers want Fultz so bad, they need to up deal to not just picks but one of Simmons and pick or Saric and picks....Danny is one person I would never want at my poker table.

I'm not sure how I'd feel about that.  Throw in Nance and I'd have to think very hard about it

That'd leave you with Brown, Ingram, Jackson, and Nance, and we're also wanting to sign Hayward this summer. I know you need several athletic, two-way wings/swings/forwards in the modern NBA, but come on lol

I still say the Simmons + #3 for #1 and AB deal makes too much sense for both teams.
Philly doesnt do that tho.

They should. Fultz and AB is an absolute perfect duo in the backcourt for Philly. It also makes them fit much better together than they currently do. I don't care how much they try and push it, Simmons is NOT a "point guard," and more than likely Fultz and Ball will go 1 and 2, leaving them without any decent guards yet again. I also think it's highly unlikely that all three of Simmons, Saric, and Embiid will be able to play together full-time.

A lineup of Fultz, AB, Covington, Saric, and Embiid, let alone who they add the next two years with the Lakers and Kings picks, is a much better overall fit than Jackson, Covington, Simmons, Saric, and Embiid.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: jpotter33 on June 16, 2017, 08:27:00 PM
Quote
Talks are reportedly far enough along that Fultz could meet with the Sixers in Philadelphia on Saturday, according to the report. A source said he was supposed to have a second meeting with the Celtics on Saturday. However, the source said that meeting was canceled.
[/size]

Perfect. Get the Sixers excited and pull plug at last minute when Magic offers an insanse deal with actually players.
Fultz is reportedly still on to meet with Boston tomorrow.

this is all very confusing.

Where are you seeing this at?
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: guava_wrench on June 16, 2017, 08:28:00 PM
Quote
Talks are reportedly far enough along that Fultz could meet with the Sixers in Philadelphia on Saturday, according to the report. A source said he was supposed to have a second meeting with the Celtics on Saturday. However, the source said that meeting was canceled.
[/size]

Perfect. Get the Sixers excited and pull plug at last minute when Magic offers an insanse deal with actual players.
Why would we want LA's players? They aren't good enough to justify losing the cap space and not being able to offer a max contract to a FA. Philly's picks help us defer the cap hit.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: tazzmaniac on June 16, 2017, 08:29:25 PM
Think of how good Fultz is!

Philly is willing to part with all these picks for him.  They would be happy to give up all those assets for him, because they feel he is that special!  If Fultz and Jackson are "so close" talent wise, why doesn't Philly just draft Jackson and keep all those picks? 

Oh, it's because Philly realizes an offensive talent with a wide range of tools is harder to come by than another MKG/Winslow/Stanley Johnson/Iguadola etc.  you can find those guys multiple times over in every draft.

Precisely.
We don't know what the parameters of the trade are but there is a much higher chance of Ainge fleecing Colangelo than the reverse.  If it really is the #3, Lakers 2018 and Kings 2019, Colangelo is making a heck of a gamble on Embiid's health and the potential of Simmons and Fultz.

All picks/transactions are a gamble.  But even Colangelo understands, at some point u need to cash in.  I wouldn't bet on Colangelo getting fleeced.  Does quality over quantity = Fleecing?
Who says it is quality over quantity?  If it is really those 3 picks, I'd say it is 3 chances at quality versus 1 chance at quality.  Way too many people on here went way overboard projecting Fultz as a transcendent player.  I think there is a good chance Fultz upside is Irving.  Not bad but not transcendent or even a #1 star on a championship team. 

You don't need to cash in when your two young stars have only played 31 games total.  If Embiid can't stay healthy, not having that Lakers pick to get one of the good bigs next draft is going to hurt.  I think Colangelo is getting antsy to put his stamp on the Sixers team.   
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Celtics18 on June 16, 2017, 08:29:41 PM
18 pages later and I'm pretty sure the people attached to Fultz and upset would've been just as attached to Joe Barry Carroll, i.e., they've completely sold themselves on the Fultz groupthink and can't rearrange their heads to ponder other possibilities.

I second this sentiment.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 16, 2017, 08:30:16 PM
Markelle has said he wants to go #1... Cant see him messing up meeting with the 76ers/not passing medical/physical

Celtics will have Jackson in soon for a meeting. 
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: A Future of Stevens on June 16, 2017, 08:32:34 PM
Quote
Talks are reportedly far enough along that Fultz could meet with the Sixers in Philadelphia on Saturday, according to the report. A source said he was supposed to have a second meeting with the Celtics on Saturday. However, the source said that meeting was canceled.
[/size]

Perfect. Get the Sixers excited and pull plug at last minute when Magic offers an insanse deal with actually players.
Fultz is reportedly still on to meet with Boston tomorrow.

this is all very confusing.

Where are you seeing this at?
Please tell us haha
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Ilikesports17 on June 16, 2017, 08:34:01 PM
Quote
Talks are reportedly far enough along that Fultz could meet with the Sixers in Philadelphia on Saturday, according to the report. A source said he was supposed to have a second meeting with the Celtics on Saturday. However, the source said that meeting was canceled.
[/size]

Perfect. Get the Sixers excited and pull plug at last minute when Magic offers an insanse deal with actually players.
Fultz is reportedly still on to meet with Boston tomorrow.

this is all very confusing.

Where are you seeing this at?
Please tell us haha
THought Givony tweeted it, but now its seems that Danny Ainge has simply made my brain short-circuit. Im so confused.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PhoSita on June 16, 2017, 08:35:29 PM
I would so much rather have an elite pick and roll scorer type prospect than a guy who projects as a kind of Gerald Wallace / Joe Johnson / Andre Iguodala type player.

Look, if we were sitting at #3 after the lottery I'd be all about Josh Jackson.

Fultz is a better prospect. 

I know we already have a great lead scoring guard in Thomas, but he won't last forever.  To me the value of a prospect like Fultz is exponentially higher than a guy like Jackson.

The chances of him becoming another tweener who can't shoot (e.g. MKG, Winslow, Johnson, etc) seem a lot higher than the chance he becomes Kawhi Leonard.
If it helps, think of Jackson as a Paul Pierce type.  And Fultz as CJ McCollum.  That's in play.


I think in today's league the McCollum type prospect is more valuable.
Than Paul Pierce?!  Crazy talk. All this offensive hoopla, 3 point shooting stuff has gone too far.  Paul Pierce. The Truth.  Elite 2-way wing, NBA finals MVP. Like Kawhi, Lebron, iguodala, Kobe, Durant.  6'4" scorers are much easier to find.


Look, I love Paul Pierce.  Love him.

But it's a pick and roll league now.

Pierce was best as an iso scorer, though he developed as a playmaker and defender later in his career.

If we're talking in a vacuum, I'll take the potential elite pick and roll scorer with a nice jumper over the big wing with iso / playmaker potential.


Again, chances are Jackson does not turn into Kawhi Leonard or anything like it.  More likely he's Harrison Barnes, or maybe Andre Iguodala.

It's so much easier to "make it" as a pick and roll scorer with nice handles and a good jumper than to be the swiss army knife freak athlete.

Now you'd be happy with a player who just "makes it"?  Maybe you mean something different by that phrase than how I'm interpreting it.


When I say "makes it" in this context, I mean "becomes a star like you'd expect from a top pick"
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Ilikesports17 on June 16, 2017, 08:37:32 PM
Quote
Talks are reportedly far enough along that Fultz could meet with the Sixers in Philadelphia on Saturday, according to the report. A source said he was supposed to have a second meeting with the Celtics on Saturday. However, the source said that meeting was canceled.
[/size]

Perfect. Get the Sixers excited and pull plug at last minute when Magic offers an insanse deal with actually players.
Fultz is reportedly still on to meet with Boston tomorrow.

this is all very confusing.

Where are you seeing this at?
Please tell us haha
THought Givony tweeted it, but now its seems that Danny Ainge has simply made my brain short-circuit. Im so confused.
AYYY IM NOT INSANE:

https://twitter.com/Schultz_Report/status/875854716512686081

Jordan Schultz. Got no idea who that is, but **** it.
Edit: [dang]. https://twitter.com/Schultz_Report/status/875859368591458304
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Dino Pitino on June 16, 2017, 08:37:41 PM
Quote
Who says it is quality over quantity?  If it is really those 3 picks, I'd say it is 3 chances at quality versus 1 chance at quality.  Way too many people on here went way overboard projecting Fultz as a transcendent player.

AMEN
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: j804 on June 16, 2017, 08:39:07 PM
The safest bet is Fultz yet Danny wants more and more picks in which he rarely hits on. I don't like this at all. If he sees Cleveland as vulnerable and this is to land Butler I still don't like it. Butler is not gonna move the needle much.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: tonydelk on June 16, 2017, 08:39:59 PM
18 pages later and I'm pretty sure the people attached to Fultz and upset would've been just as attached to Joe Barry Carroll, i.e., they've completely sold themselves on the Fultz groupthink and can't rearrange their heads to ponder other possibilities.

I second this sentiment.

I don't necessarily think this is exactly it.  We as fans only can go off of opinions of experts and what we see if we watch a player.  If there is a consensus among the experts most fans formulate their opinion based off of these opinions.  I watch college hoops and have seen all of the top picks play.  It's been limited exposure but I really like Fultz and think he looked the best out of them all.  I liked Jackson but I just don't see him as a lights out shooter.  You need shooters in this league.  You can't build a team of players that can play defense but not offense.  Good O will always beat good D in the NBA.   With that being said when the consensus is that Fultz is #1 and there is a drop off to the other talent we as fans get upset when our team passes on that talent when it's a rarity that they even have a chance at that talent. 
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: dreamgreen on June 16, 2017, 08:40:19 PM
They have to get Simmons or at least Saric in the deal. More draft picks just doesn't excite me and I don't want to draft another guy that can't shoot!! Not really liking anything I'm hearing at this point. Getting more cap space can be done in other ways add to that getting Hayward of Griffin could make us a top 3 team but unlikely a championship team.
We don't need any actual salary back if the point is making space for a max FA. The point may be to get high value future picks that would reduce our payroll and cap holds before the free agency period. It really would be tragic though if we walk away empty handed from the FA period.

While the #1 pick in the draft this year obviously is much more valuable than trading for lottery picks (we should avoid mixing and matching "#1" in draft with with "LA's #1"as it gives the false impression that those two assets have similar values.

I understand we don't need salary back but we do need big men and someone that can score. Philly has a stack of big men they could give us one and take back some players like Rozier, Mickey ...

I want something lol!!!
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Chris22 on June 16, 2017, 08:40:36 PM
Fultz all the way.
He will be an all star point guard.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Dchuck on June 16, 2017, 08:41:30 PM
Quote
Talks are reportedly far enough along that Fultz could meet with the Sixers in Philadelphia on Saturday, according to the report. A source said he was supposed to have a second meeting with the Celtics on Saturday. However, the source said that meeting was canceled.
[/size]

Perfect. Get the Sixers excited and pull plug at last minute when Magic offers an insanse deal with actually players.
Fultz is reportedly still on to meet with Boston tomorrow.

this is all very confusing.

Link?
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Neurotic Guy on June 16, 2017, 08:41:44 PM
"Serious Talks" may just mean that the C's have put an offer on the table (undoubtedly well in the C's favor) that the Sixers are considering countering.  Before Colangelo puts a #3 and a future probable top 5 pick on the table he needs to see Fultz. You don't offer that price without checking Fultz out thoroughly.  But the C's then have the opportunity to counter again or walk away if the Sixers don't offer enough.

This is playing out as good as it possibly can.   Had the C's got the #2 or #3, we'd be talking about who we'd trade to get to #1, or, we'd be talking about packaging 2018 Nets pick.  We are in position to either get the best player in the draft -- if Danny thinks Fultz is the best, or, trade for someone Ainge thinks is just as good as Fultz PLUS other assets. AND, the assets gained may be enough to trade for a star without losing Nets '18.

I rarely say this, but.... it's all good.   

Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Celtics18 on June 16, 2017, 08:42:34 PM
I would so much rather have an elite pick and roll scorer type prospect than a guy who projects as a kind of Gerald Wallace / Joe Johnson / Andre Iguodala type player.

Look, if we were sitting at #3 after the lottery I'd be all about Josh Jackson.

Fultz is a better prospect. 

I know we already have a great lead scoring guard in Thomas, but he won't last forever.  To me the value of a prospect like Fultz is exponentially higher than a guy like Jackson.

The chances of him becoming another tweener who can't shoot (e.g. MKG, Winslow, Johnson, etc) seem a lot higher than the chance he becomes Kawhi Leonard.
If it helps, think of Jackson as a Paul Pierce type.  And Fultz as CJ McCollum.  That's in play.


I think in today's league the McCollum type prospect is more valuable.
Than Paul Pierce?!  Crazy talk. All this offensive hoopla, 3 point shooting stuff has gone too far.  Paul Pierce. The Truth.  Elite 2-way wing, NBA finals MVP. Like Kawhi, Lebron, iguodala, Kobe, Durant.  6'4" scorers are much easier to find.


Look, I love Paul Pierce.  Love him.

But it's a pick and roll league now.

Pierce was best as an iso scorer, though he developed as a playmaker and defender later in his career.

If we're talking in a vacuum, I'll take the potential elite pick and roll scorer with a nice jumper over the big wing with iso / playmaker potential.


Again, chances are Jackson does not turn into Kawhi Leonard or anything like it.  More likely he's Harrison Barnes, or maybe Andre Iguodala.

It's so much easier to "make it" as a pick and roll scorer with nice handles and a good jumper than to be the swiss army knife freak athlete.

Now you'd be happy with a player who just "makes it"?  Maybe you mean something different by that phrase than how I'm interpreting it.


When I say "makes it" in this context, I mean "becomes a star like you'd expect from a top pick"

That's an interesting take.  I'm not sure I'd agree that more players have "made it" in recent drafts as pick and roll guards than as two way, versatile, scoring forwards. 
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: crownontherocks on June 16, 2017, 08:44:03 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/NBADraftWass/status/875869250598182914
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: mef730 on June 16, 2017, 08:46:02 PM
Anybody else getting that SMF error when trying to move around in this thread?

Mike
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 16, 2017, 08:46:03 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/NBADraftWass/status/875869250598182914

makes no sense

Why go through all this hassle when the Celtics could trade the #1 pick for Butler
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 16, 2017, 08:47:04 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/NBADraftWass/status/875869250598182914

Also unless Woj or Lowe confirm this...  its just rumors
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: jpotter33 on June 16, 2017, 08:47:33 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/NBADraftWass/status/875869250598182914

FYI, this is what it says:

Quote
Hearing this could wind up being a 3-team trade between Philadelphia-Boston-Chicago including Butler, Okafor and lots of picks

76ers beat writer just also tweeted about them still being in deep discussions. I also read that Saric might now be in the deal somehow, which might go along with the Chicago Bulls being entered into the trade now.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: SHAQATTACK on June 16, 2017, 08:48:04 PM
im standing on a very tall bridge
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: JOMVP on June 16, 2017, 08:49:28 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/NBADraftWass/status/875869250598182914

makes no sense

Why go through all this hassle when the Celtics could trade the #1 pick for Butler

Number 1 pick is too much for Butler. Celtics would keep 3 in this draft and trade different draft capitol and probably Jae Crowder to the Bulls for Butler.

Philly: 1st pick
Bulls: Jae, Okafor, 2018 Lakers pick, probably other picks.
Celtics: 3, Butler.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 16, 2017, 08:50:21 PM
im standing on a very tall bridge

to do what?? come down man...   the #3 will be good.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 16, 2017, 08:51:34 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/NBADraftWass/status/875869250598182914

makes no sense

Why go through all this hassle when the Celtics could trade the #1 pick for Butler

Number 1 pick is too much for Butler. Celtics would keep 3 in this draft and trade different draft capitol and probably Jae Crowder to the Bulls for Butler.

Philly: 1st pick
Bulls: Jae, Okafor, 2018 Lakers pick, probably other picks.
Celtics: 3, Butler.

why would philly give up the #3, 2018 lakers 1st (unprotected), future 76ers 1st and okafor

too much to give up
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Dchuck on June 16, 2017, 08:52:26 PM
Think of how good Fultz is!

Philly is willing to part with all these picks for him.  They would be happy to give up all those assets for him, because they feel he is that special!  If Fultz and Jackson are "so close" talent wise, why doesn't Philly just draft Jackson and keep all those picks? 

Oh, it's because Philly realizes an offensive talent with a wide range of tools is harder to come by than another MKG/Winslow/Stanley Johnson/Iguadola etc.  you can find those guys multiple times over in every draft.

Precisely.
We don't know what the parameters of the trade are but there is a much higher chance of Ainge fleecing Colangelo than the reverse.  If it really is the #3, Lakers 2018 and Kings 2019, Colangelo is making a heck of a gamble on Embiid's health and the potential of Simmons and Fultz.

All picks/transactions are a gamble.  But even Colangelo understands, at some point u need to cash in.  I wouldn't bet on Colangelo getting fleeced.  Does quality over quantity = Fleecing?
Who says it is quality over quantity?  If it is really those 3 picks, I'd say it is 3 chances at quality versus 1 chance at quality.  Way too many people on here went way overboard projecting Fultz as a transcendent player.  I think there is a good chance Fultz upside is Irving.  Not bad but not transcendent or even a #1 star on a championship team. 

You don't need to cash in when your two young stars have only played 31 games total.  If Embiid can't stay healthy, not having that Lakers pick to get one of the good bigs next draft is going to hurt.  I think Colangelo is getting antsy to put his stamp on the Sixers team.

So what happens when we end up getting a middle of the first round pick (when Philly makes the playoffs next year) and a #6 pick? 
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: JOMVP on June 16, 2017, 08:54:42 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/NBADraftWass/status/875869250598182914

makes no sense

Why go through all this hassle when the Celtics could trade the #1 pick for Butler

Number 1 pick is too much for Butler. Celtics would keep 3 in this draft and trade different draft capitol and probably Jae Crowder to the Bulls for Butler.

Philly: 1st pick
Bulls: Jae, Okafor, 2018 Lakers pick, probably other picks.
Celtics: 3, Butler.

why would philly give up the #3, 2018 lakers 1st (unprotected), future 76ers 1st and okafor

too much to give up

Not if they are enamored with Fultz as much as they are. Celtics hold all the cards. If Sixers don't want to give up that package for a guy they think is a transcendent player, Celtics pick Fultz and don't think twice.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: cousytoheinsohn on June 16, 2017, 08:54:48 PM
I wonder how much input Stevens has had/is having in all of this.

Probably more than anyone is considering or imagining, which would make the situation even more intriguing.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: JOMVP on June 16, 2017, 08:56:02 PM
I wonder how much input Stevens has had/is having in all of this?

Probably more than anyone is considering or imagining, which would make the situation even more intriguing.

Jackson is definitely much more of a Stevens kind of player. He can guard 1-4 on defense, Brad gets a Stevens in his pants just thinking of that versatility.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: dreamgreen on June 16, 2017, 08:57:10 PM
Why trade a bunch of good picks for Butler and have no cap space? Yuck!

If you tell me we are getting Butler and Saric for the #1 I could deal with that. Not excited personally rather have Hayward and Fultz.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 16, 2017, 08:57:28 PM
Zach Lowe joins ESPN to discuss this potential deal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75FCuzEzTO0
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Dchuck on June 16, 2017, 08:58:37 PM
I wonder how much input Stevens has had/is having in all of this?

Probably more than anyone is considering or imagining, which would make the situation even more intriguing.

Jackson is definitely much more of a Stevens kind of player. He can guard 1-4 on defense, Brad gets a Stevens in his pants just thinking of that versatility.

BUT WE CANNOT SCORE!!  I'm so tired of these defensive studs with versatility.  When we need a bucket, who else besides IT can get one?
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: SHAQATTACK on June 16, 2017, 08:58:57 PM
I wonder how much input Stevens has had/is having in all of this?

Probably more than anyone is considering or imagining, which would make the situation even more intriguing.

Jackson is definitely much more of a Stevens kind of player. He can guard 1-4 on defense, Brad gets a Stevens in his pants just thinking of that versatility.

but there is no guareetee we can pick Jackson ....right ?

Fultz isnthe sure thing , why screw it up?
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: saltlover on June 16, 2017, 08:58:58 PM
I wonder how much input Stevens has had/is having in all of this.

Probably more than anyone is considering or imagining, which would make the situation even more intriguing.

The Celtics definitely use a consensus approach in making decisions.  Danny has the final say, but Stevens, as well as other front office types, and maybe even ownership to some extent, give input.  And if there is significant disagreement, they don't pursue it, as was the case with Cousins.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 16, 2017, 08:59:52 PM
I wonder how much input Stevens has had/is having in all of this?

Probably more than anyone is considering or imagining, which would make the situation even more intriguing.

Jackson is definitely much more of a Stevens kind of player. He can guard 1-4 on defense, Brad gets a Stevens in his pants just thinking of that versatility.

BUT WE CANNOT SCORE!!  I'm so tired of these defensive studs with versatility.  When we need a bucket, who else besides IT can get one?

Hayward or maybe Griffin

if not Hayward... i can see Danny signing Dion Waiters
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Chris22 on June 16, 2017, 09:00:21 PM
I wonder how much input Stevens has had/is having in all of this?

Probably more than anyone is considering or imagining, which would make the situation even more intriguing.

Jackson is definitely much more of a Stevens kind of player. He can guard 1-4 on defense, Brad gets a Stevens in his pants just thinking of that versatility.

BUT WE CANNOT SCORE!!  I'm so tired of these defensive studs with versatility.  When we need a bucket, who else besides IT can get one?

Bingo.
Scorers win championships.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 16, 2017, 09:00:48 PM
I wonder how much input Stevens has had/is having in all of this?

Probably more than anyone is considering or imagining, which would make the situation even more intriguing.

Jackson is definitely much more of a Stevens kind of player. He can guard 1-4 on defense, Brad gets a Stevens in his pants just thinking of that versatility.

but there is no guareetee we can pick Jackson ....right ?

Fultz isnthe sure thing , why screw it up?

yes he isnt a sure thing
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Dchuck on June 16, 2017, 09:01:47 PM
I wonder how much input Stevens has had/is having in all of this?

Probably more than anyone is considering or imagining, which would make the situation even more intriguing.

Jackson is definitely much more of a Stevens kind of player. He can guard 1-4 on defense, Brad gets a Stevens in his pants just thinking of that versatility.

BUT WE CANNOT SCORE!!  I'm so tired of these defensive studs with versatility.  When we need a bucket, who else besides IT can get one?

Hayward or maybe Griffin

if not Hayward... i can see Danny signing Dion Waiters

Hayward, Brown and Jackson?  Waiters? Haha, I needed a laugh
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: BlackCeltic on June 16, 2017, 09:02:52 PM
I wonder how much input Stevens has had/is having in all of this?

Probably more than anyone is considering or imagining, which would make the situation even more intriguing.

Jackson is definitely much more of a Stevens kind of player. He can guard 1-4 on defense, Brad gets a Stevens in his pants just thinking of that versatility.

BUT WE CANNOT SCORE!!  I'm so tired of these defensive studs with versatility.  When we need a bucket, who else besides IT can get one?

Hayward or maybe Griffin

if not Hayward... i can see Danny signing Dion Waiters

Hayward, Brown and Jackson?  Waiters? Haha, I needed a laugh

Im triggered.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: tazzmaniac on June 16, 2017, 09:03:39 PM
Think of how good Fultz is!

Philly is willing to part with all these picks for him.  They would be happy to give up all those assets for him, because they feel he is that special!  If Fultz and Jackson are "so close" talent wise, why doesn't Philly just draft Jackson and keep all those picks? 

Oh, it's because Philly realizes an offensive talent with a wide range of tools is harder to come by than another MKG/Winslow/Stanley Johnson/Iguadola etc.  you can find those guys multiple times over in every draft.

Precisely.
We don't know what the parameters of the trade are but there is a much higher chance of Ainge fleecing Colangelo than the reverse.  If it really is the #3, Lakers 2018 and Kings 2019, Colangelo is making a heck of a gamble on Embiid's health and the potential of Simmons and Fultz.

All picks/transactions are a gamble.  But even Colangelo understands, at some point u need to cash in.  I wouldn't bet on Colangelo getting fleeced.  Does quality over quantity = Fleecing?
Who says it is quality over quantity?  If it is really those 3 picks, I'd say it is 3 chances at quality versus 1 chance at quality.  Way too many people on here went way overboard projecting Fultz as a transcendent player.  I think there is a good chance Fultz upside is Irving.  Not bad but not transcendent or even a #1 star on a championship team. 

You don't need to cash in when your two young stars have only played 31 games total.  If Embiid can't stay healthy, not having that Lakers pick to get one of the good bigs next draft is going to hurt.  I think Colangelo is getting antsy to put his stamp on the Sixers team.

So what happens when we end up getting a middle of the first round pick (when Philly makes the playoffs next year) and a #6 pick?
I said, and all the discussion has been about, the Lakers 2018 pick not the Sixers 2018 pick so it wouldn't matter whether the Sixers made the playoffs or not.  I'd actually expect Ainge to make it the better of the Lakers 2018 and Sixers 2018. 

The primo deal would be:  #3, better of Lakers/Sixers 2018 and better of Kings/Sixers 2019. 

That covers us if the Sixers miss the playoffs but get lucky in the lottery.   

Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: KGBirdBias on June 16, 2017, 09:04:21 PM
I wonder how much input Stevens has had/is having in all of this?

Probably more than anyone is considering or imagining, which would make the situation even more intriguing.

Jackson is definitely much more of a Stevens kind of player. He can guard 1-4 on defense, Brad gets a Stevens in his pants just thinking of that versatility.

BUT WE CANNOT SCORE!!  I'm so tired of these defensive studs with versatility.  When we need a bucket, who else besides IT can get one?

THIS^^^
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: bdm860 on June 16, 2017, 09:05:12 PM
I can get behind the idea of trading #1 for multiple picks and getting Jimmy Butler back while keeping some of those extra picks.  Then signing Blake Griffin.  That's my dream right now.

Have a team that can compete now (I think it could), while still having future potential lottery picks to add young, cheap talent, or to trade for vets to patch up the new-and-improved championship contender.

Even better if LeBron does go West to sign with the Lakers or Clippers.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: mctyson on June 16, 2017, 09:05:48 PM
18 pages later and I'm pretty sure the people attached to Fultz and upset would've been just as attached to Joe Barry Carroll, i.e., they've completely sold themselves on the Fultz groupthink and can't rearrange their heads to ponder other possibilities.

I second this sentiment.

I don't necessarily think this is exactly it.  We as fans only can go off of opinions of experts and what we see if we watch a player.  If there is a consensus among the experts most fans formulate their opinion based off of these opinions.

We are fickle though.  All it takes is a few people saying "wow Lonzo Ball is shooting up the charts" or "Fultz and a horrible workout" and we change.

I am on record that the Celtics should draft Fultz at #1 because I trust the wisdom of markets.  However if they do not want him as a player or think that the guys available at #3 or further down are close to as valuable...then the should absolutely trade down. 

The problem is that people have riled themselves up into Fultz hype and banners and jerseys and retirement without ever seeing him play.  That is wrong and that is why Ainge runs the team and we are fans.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: JOMVP on June 16, 2017, 09:06:21 PM
I wonder how much input Stevens has had/is having in all of this?

Probably more than anyone is considering or imagining, which would make the situation even more intriguing.

Jackson is definitely much more of a Stevens kind of player. He can guard 1-4 on defense, Brad gets a Stevens in his pants just thinking of that versatility.

BUT WE CANNOT SCORE!!  I'm so tired of these defensive studs with versatility.  When we need a bucket, who else besides IT can get one?

I guess that would be determined by further deals. If we end up with Butler, plus Hayward and still hold on to 3 - things look a ton different.

IT
Butler
Hayward
FA (Taj Gibson?)
Horford

Smart
Brown
Jackson
Zizic
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: mr. dee on June 16, 2017, 09:06:22 PM
18 pages later and I'm pretty sure the people attached to Fultz and upset would've been just as attached to Joe Barry Carroll, i.e., they've completely sold themselves on the Fultz groupthink and can't rearrange their heads to ponder other possibilities.

I second this sentiment.

Third ;D
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 16, 2017, 09:07:21 PM
I wonder how much input Stevens has had/is having in all of this?

Probably more than anyone is considering or imagining, which would make the situation even more intriguing.

Jackson is definitely much more of a Stevens kind of player. He can guard 1-4 on defense, Brad gets a Stevens in his pants just thinking of that versatility.

BUT WE CANNOT SCORE!!  I'm so tired of these defensive studs with versatility.  When we need a bucket, who else besides IT can get one?

Hayward or maybe Griffin

if not Hayward... i can see Danny signing Dion Waiters

Hayward, Brown and Jackson?  Waiters? Haha, I needed a laugh

you can laugh all you want...but as a backup plan...signing Waiters to provide some scoring help is a good plan

Waiters had some big time games last season... 
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: mctyson on June 16, 2017, 09:07:30 PM
I wonder how much input Stevens has had/is having in all of this?

Probably more than anyone is considering or imagining, which would make the situation even more intriguing.

Jackson is definitely much more of a Stevens kind of player. He can guard 1-4 on defense, Brad gets a Stevens in his pants just thinking of that versatility.

BUT WE CANNOT SCORE!!  I'm so tired of these defensive studs with versatility.  When we need a bucket, who else besides IT can get one?

THIS^^^

They had one of the best offensive ratings in the NBA this year and the best 4th Q scorer in the league.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: SHAQATTACK on June 16, 2017, 09:08:22 PM
so.....if you take Jackson , have Brown already , why Keep Jae


im see n too much of a log jam ......and then add Hayward ?


none of this makes since .
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Chris22 on June 16, 2017, 09:09:24 PM
18 pages later and I'm pretty sure the people attached to Fultz and upset would've been just as attached to Joe Barry Carroll, i.e., they've completely sold themselves on the Fultz groupthink and can't rearrange their heads to ponder other possibilities.

I second this sentiment.

I don't necessarily think this is exactly it.  We as fans only can go off of opinions of experts and what we see if we watch a player.  If there is a consensus among the experts most fans formulate their opinion based off of these opinions.

We are fickle though.  All it takes is a few people saying "wow Lonzo Ball is shooting up the charts" or "Fultz and a horrible workout" and we change.

I am on record that the Celtics should draft Fultz at #1 because I trust the wisdom of markets.  However if they do not want him as a player or think that the guys available at #3 or further down are close to as valuable...then the should absolutely trade down. 

The problem is that people have riled themselves up into Fultz hype and banners and jerseys and retirement without ever seeing him play.  That is wrong and that is why Ainge runs the team and we are fans.

I've seen Fultz play.
He is very, very good.
And only 19.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: JOMVP on June 16, 2017, 09:10:02 PM
so.....if you take Jackson , have Brown already , why Keep Jae


im see n too much of a log jam ......and then add Hayward ?


none of this makes since .

Crowder goes out in a trade for Butler and Bradley would have to go out in a trade maybe for a PF to fill out the lineup?
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: SHAQATTACK on June 16, 2017, 09:10:08 PM
Unless Danny has GOoD info that Lebron is not returnng to Cavs and sees an opening to push the Celtics forward with more stars.

im lost ....all this makes no sense
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 16, 2017, 09:10:27 PM
so.....if you take Jackson , have Brown already , why Keep Jae


im see n too much of a log jam ......and then add Hayward ?


none of this makes since .

If Hayward signs... Jae is a goner imo
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: cousytoheinsohn on June 16, 2017, 09:11:33 PM
I wonder how much input Stevens has had/is having in all of this?

Probably more than anyone is considering or imagining, which would make the situation even more intriguing.

Jackson is definitely much more of a Stevens kind of player. He can guard 1-4 on defense, Brad gets a Stevens in his pants just thinking of that versatility.

Apt analogy. Almost too apt. Well played.

If Josh's name was Johnson instead of Jackson, we could say that Brad's getting another Johnson for Josh, or something along those twisted lines.

Clearly, the draft can't come soon enough. :)
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 16, 2017, 09:11:52 PM
18 pages later and I'm pretty sure the people attached to Fultz and upset would've been just as attached to Joe Barry Carroll, i.e., they've completely sold themselves on the Fultz groupthink and can't rearrange their heads to ponder other possibilities.

I second this sentiment.

I don't necessarily think this is exactly it.  We as fans only can go off of opinions of experts and what we see if we watch a player.  If there is a consensus among the experts most fans formulate their opinion based off of these opinions.

We are fickle though.  All it takes is a few people saying "wow Lonzo Ball is shooting up the charts" or "Fultz and a horrible workout" and we change.

I am on record that the Celtics should draft Fultz at #1 because I trust the wisdom of markets.  However if they do not want him as a player or think that the guys available at #3 or further down are close to as valuable...then the should absolutely trade down. 

The problem is that people have riled themselves up into Fultz hype and banners and jerseys and retirement without ever seeing him play.  That is wrong and that is why Ainge runs the team and we are fans.

I've seen Fultz play.
He is very, very good.
And only 19.

let it go Chris... Celtics are not drafting Fultz

Celtics have cancelled their 2nd meeting with him tomorrow. he will be meeting with the 76ers instead
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Dchuck on June 16, 2017, 09:13:17 PM
I wonder how much input Stevens has had/is having in all of this?

Probably more than anyone is considering or imagining, which would make the situation even more intriguing.

Jackson is definitely much more of a Stevens kind of player. He can guard 1-4 on defense, Brad gets a Stevens in his pants just thinking of that versatility.

BUT WE CANNOT SCORE!!  I'm so tired of these defensive studs with versatility.  When we need a bucket, who else besides IT can get one?

THIS^^^

They had one of the best offensive ratings in the NBA this year and the best 4th Q scorer in the league.

I'm glad these cute stats make u feel more comfortable about our offense.  Just like the #1 seed was so important.  What I saw with my own eyes is us struggling IN THE PLAYOFFS, for anyone other than IT to consistently contribute offensive. 
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: cousytoheinsohn on June 16, 2017, 09:13:41 PM
im standing on a very tall bridge

Don't do it, Shaq.

We need you now more than ever and especially if Danny screws this up.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: tazzmaniac on June 16, 2017, 09:14:08 PM
I wonder how much input Stevens has had/is having in all of this?

Probably more than anyone is considering or imagining, which would make the situation even more intriguing.

Jackson is definitely much more of a Stevens kind of player. He can guard 1-4 on defense, Brad gets a Stevens in his pants just thinking of that versatility.

BUT WE CANNOT SCORE!!  I'm so tired of these defensive studs with versatility.  When we need a bucket, who else besides IT can get one?

I guess that would be determined by further deals. If we end up with Butler, plus Hayward and still hold on to 3 - things look a ton different.

IT
Butler
Hayward
FA (Taj Gibson?)
Horford

Smart
Brown
Jackson
Zizic
We aren't going to get Butler without giving up the #3 pick.  Anyway, I'd rather have the better of the Lakers/Sixers 2018.  That would gives us a good shot at two top 5 picks in the next draft and would free up 5M in cap space for this offseason. 
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Neurotic Guy on June 16, 2017, 09:14:23 PM
I wonder how much input Stevens has had/is having in all of this?

Probably more than anyone is considering or imagining, which would make the situation even more intriguing.

Jackson is definitely much more of a Stevens kind of player. He can guard 1-4 on defense, Brad gets a Stevens in his pants just thinking of that versatility.

BUT WE CANNOT SCORE!!  I'm so tired of these defensive studs with versatility.  When we need a bucket, who else besides IT can get one?

Hayward or maybe Griffin

if not Hayward... i can see Danny signing Dion Waiters

Hayward, Brown and Jackson?  Waiters? Haha, I needed a laugh

Im triggered.

Post again please, BlackCeltic.... Now
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: SHAQATTACK on June 16, 2017, 09:14:33 PM
so.....if you take Jackson , have Brown already , why Keep Jae


im see n too much of a log jam ......and then add Hayward ?


none of this makes since .



If Hayward signs... Jae is a goner imo


Danny going for Hayward .....Bulter or George

I son't see Bulter being a banner hanger asset tho
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Chris22 on June 16, 2017, 09:18:13 PM
18 pages later and I'm pretty sure the people attached to Fultz and upset would've been just as attached to Joe Barry Carroll, i.e., they've completely sold themselves on the Fultz groupthink and can't rearrange their heads to ponder other possibilities.

I second this sentiment.

I don't necessarily think this is exactly it.  We as fans only can go off of opinions of experts and what we see if we watch a player.  If there is a consensus among the experts most fans formulate their opinion based off of these opinions.

We are fickle though.  All it takes is a few people saying "wow Lonzo Ball is shooting up the charts" or "Fultz and a horrible workout" and we change.

I am on record that the Celtics should draft Fultz at #1 because I trust the wisdom of markets.  However if they do not want him as a player or think that the guys available at #3 or further down are close to as valuable...then the should absolutely trade down. 

The problem is that people have riled themselves up into Fultz hype and banners and jerseys and retirement without ever seeing him play.  That is wrong and that is why Ainge runs the team and we are fans.

I've seen Fultz play.
He is very, very good.
And only 19.

let it go Chris... Celtics are not drafting Fultz

Celtics have cancelled their 2nd meeting with him tomorrow. he will be meeting with the 76ers instead

So certain are you.
Danny plays the game well.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: KGBirdBias on June 16, 2017, 09:19:46 PM
I wonder how much input Stevens has had/is having in all of this?

Probably more than anyone is considering or imagining, which would make the situation even more intriguing.



Jackson is definitely much more of a Stevens kind of player. He can guard 1-4 on defense, Brad gets a Stevens in his pants just thinking of that versatility.

BUT WE CANNOT SCORE!!  I'm so tired of these defensive studs with versatility.  When we need a bucket, who else besides IT can get one?

I guess that would be determined by further deals. If we end up with Butler, plus Hayward and still hold on to 3 - things look a ton different.

IT
Butler
Hayward
FA (Taj Gibson?)
Horford

Smart
Brown
Jackson
Zizic
We aren't going to get Butler without giving up the #3 pick.  Anyway, I'd rather have the better of the Lakers/Sixers 2018.  That would gives us a good shot at two top 5 picks in the next draft and would free up 5M in cap space for this offseason.

Bingo
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: csfansince60s on June 16, 2017, 09:26:36 PM
I'm very back and forth on this type of deal.  Fultz has been the guy for so long you get excited and set on that player as a future star for your team.  I just don't see any of the other guys being stars. 

If this deal is to move it for a star player like butler and get a lottery pick out of it as well I understand it but it doesn't mean I like it.  I just don't think adding Butler and Griffin put the Celtics on par with Golden State. 

Adding up the rumors it looks like it's possible Danny has another deal lined up.  I can see the below happening and I'm not sure how I feel.

#1 for #3 and the best philly pick next year out of the Lakers and their pick.

Crowder and #3 to Chicago for Butler and 16.  Sign Griffin. That's a fun team to watch but definitely not good enough to win a championship.  I'd rather have Fultz. 

PG - IT
SG - Bradley
SF - Butler
PF - Griffin
C - Horford

Bench
Brown
Smart
Yabu
Zizic
Rozier
1st round pick

What if Philly used the pick on Ball or Jackson instead of Fultz!

And "what if" the ring wasn't  actually thrown into the fires of Mt. Doom?

Why didn't Danny just send the eagles into Philly and throw Fultz into Mt. Doom right away?

Because the Eagles are already in Philly.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: SHAQATTACK on June 16, 2017, 09:27:19 PM
seems like a huge waste to do all this to get Butler .

hand over everything to 76's and Bulls for Bulter  :-[

still not on par with team Lebron
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 16, 2017, 09:27:59 PM
18 pages later and I'm pretty sure the people attached to Fultz and upset would've been just as attached to Joe Barry Carroll, i.e., they've completely sold themselves on the Fultz groupthink and can't rearrange their heads to ponder other possibilities.

I second this sentiment.

I don't necessarily think this is exactly it.  We as fans only can go off of opinions of experts and what we see if we watch a player.  If there is a consensus among the experts most fans formulate their opinion based off of these opinions.

We are fickle though.  All it takes is a few people saying "wow Lonzo Ball is shooting up the charts" or "Fultz and a horrible workout" and we change.

I am on record that the Celtics should draft Fultz at #1 because I trust the wisdom of markets.  However if they do not want him as a player or think that the guys available at #3 or further down are close to as valuable...then the should absolutely trade down. 

The problem is that people have riled themselves up into Fultz hype and banners and jerseys and retirement without ever seeing him play.  That is wrong and that is why Ainge runs the team and we are fans.

I've seen Fultz play.
He is very, very good.
And only 19.

let it go Chris... Celtics are not drafting Fultz

Celtics have cancelled their 2nd meeting with him tomorrow. he will be meeting with the 76ers instead

So certain are you.
Danny plays the game well.

So what kind of game is he going to play??  He is going to play with the Lakers and 76ers...but still end up picking Fultz at #1?
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: BlackCeltic on June 16, 2017, 09:29:30 PM
18 pages later and I'm pretty sure the people attached to Fultz and upset would've been just as attached to Joe Barry Carroll, i.e., they've completely sold themselves on the Fultz groupthink and can't rearrange their heads to ponder other possibilities.

I second this sentiment.

I don't necessarily think this is exactly it.  We as fans only can go off of opinions of experts and what we see if we watch a player.  If there is a consensus among the experts most fans formulate their opinion based off of these opinions.

We are fickle though.  All it takes is a few people saying "wow Lonzo Ball is shooting up the charts" or "Fultz and a horrible workout" and we change.

I am on record that the Celtics should draft Fultz at #1 because I trust the wisdom of markets.  However if they do not want him as a player or think that the guys available at #3 or further down are close to as valuable...then the should absolutely trade down. 

The problem is that people have riled themselves up into Fultz hype and banners and jerseys and retirement without ever seeing him play.  That is wrong and that is why Ainge runs the team and we are fans.

I've seen Fultz play.
He is very, very good.
And only 19.

let it go Chris... Celtics are not drafting Fultz

Celtics have cancelled their 2nd meeting with him tomorrow. he will be meeting with the 76ers instead

So certain are you.
Danny plays the game well.

So what kind of game is he going to play??  He is going to play with the Lakers and 76ers...but still end up picking Fultz at #1?

Trade to Magic Johnson and the Lakers, or within the division to Philly? Yea, Im drafting Fultz.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: mctyson on June 16, 2017, 09:30:10 PM
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics/2017/06/celtics_76ers_discussing_potential_deal_for_no_1_pick_in_nba_draft_0

the sage
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: cousytoheinsohn on June 16, 2017, 09:30:41 PM
I wonder how much input Stevens has had/is having in all of this.

Probably more than anyone is considering or imagining, which would make the situation even more intriguing.

The Celtics definitely use a consensus approach in making decisions.  Danny has the final say, but Stevens, as well as other front office types, and maybe even ownership to some extent, give input.  And if there is significant disagreement, they don't pursue it, as was the case with Cousins.

I'm wondering whether Brad may be actually driving it in the direction it seems to be going, the better to get more versatility in "the system."
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: KGBirdBias on June 16, 2017, 09:31:43 PM
I just think it's bigger than Butler. Sorry I keep saying it but you don't trade the #1 pick for just a fish. You trade it to get more assets to grab a big fish.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: KGBirdBias on June 16, 2017, 09:33:44 PM
The Bulls are trying to unload Butler so DWade doesn't opt into his huge salary. If Butler is gone, why would Wade stay.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 16, 2017, 09:35:47 PM
The Bulls are trying to unload Butler so DWade doesn't opt into his huge salary. If Butler is gone, why would Wade stay.

because he will never make more than 20 million a year again

He will opt in... not come to practice...not care
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: dreamgreen on June 16, 2017, 09:39:13 PM
seems like a huge waste to do all this to get Butler .

hand over everything to 76's and Bulls for Bulter  :-[

still not on par with team Lebron

Yea sounds gross  :-[
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: SHAQATTACK on June 16, 2017, 09:40:58 PM
we are going to end up with Tatum and Lakers draft pick next year .......i just feel it in my bones.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: tazzmaniac on June 16, 2017, 09:43:56 PM
The Bulls are trying to unload Butler so DWade doesn't opt into his huge salary. If Butler is gone, why would Wade stay.
23.8M is a good reason to opt in.  I'd think he'd opt in and then work out a buyout.  Then he could sign on cheaply with the Cavs. 
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 16, 2017, 09:45:01 PM
we are going to end up with Tatum and Lakers draft pick next year .......i just feel it in my bones.

Tatum could very well be the pick

Lets say

76ers- Fultz
Lakers - Jackson

Can't see Celtics picking Ball ....  So next best option is Tatum
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Dchuck on June 16, 2017, 09:45:06 PM
we are going to end up with Tatum and Lakers draft pick next year .......i just feel it in my bones.

At least Tatum can shoot
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PAOBoston on June 16, 2017, 09:45:10 PM
I don't know what to think right now. It's a combination of anxiety, depression, and excitement all at once.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 16, 2017, 09:46:12 PM
The Bulls are trying to unload Butler so DWade doesn't opt into his huge salary. If Butler is gone, why would Wade stay.
23.8M is a good reason to opt in.  I'd think he'd opt in and then work out a buyout.  Then he could sign on cheaply with the Cavs.

Wade robs the Bulls
Bulls are dumb to give Wade this contract...   he was already on a steep decline when they signed him
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: BlackCeltic on June 16, 2017, 09:47:49 PM
I don't know what to think right now. It's a combination of anxiety, depression, and excitement all at once.

Im with you. I wanted to attend the draft party this year, but I don't want to end up being a boo bird. Danny has done everything I wanted him to since drafting Marcus Smart. If we don't have Fultz or Anthony Davis come draft night, ill be sick.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: dreamgreen on June 16, 2017, 09:49:01 PM
we are going to end up with Tatum and Lakers draft pick next year .......i just feel it in my bones.

At least Tatum can shoot but still yuck, if that's all the trade is we have to get a big back from them and they can take Rozier.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on June 16, 2017, 09:52:41 PM
Jesus Christ, why are we being so stupid about this...? Just take Markelle Fultz at #1.

Unless the Sixers are willing to offer Robert Covington, along with the LA 2018 or the SacTo 2019 pick, hang up the phone, Danny!
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: wiley on June 16, 2017, 09:53:22 PM
18 pages later and I'm pretty sure the people attached to Fultz and upset would've been just as attached to Joe Barry Carroll, i.e., they've completely sold themselves on the Fultz groupthink and can't rearrange their heads to ponder other possibilities.

TP

It's time to wait and see and stop the outrage based on limited info.  While Fultz is clearly the better offensive prospect, all Jackson has to do to warrant this trade IMO is shoot as well as Fultz from deep (say within 1 to 3 percentage points on threes).  If Jackson can achieve that he'll have been the smarter pick based on how good the rest of his game is.  And while I'm a Jackson fan, if Danny went with Tatum at 3 in this trade I would not throw a fit even though I think Jackson is the wiser choice...I would wait and see.  What we have is people throwing fits over question marks and letting their disdain for Marcus Smart affect their judgement of a completely different player.   
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 16, 2017, 09:54:53 PM
we are going to end up with Tatum and Lakers draft pick next year .......i just feel it in my bones.

At least Tatum can shoot but still yuck, if that's all the trade is we have to get a big back from them and they can take Rozier.

Tatum shot the 3 at 34 percent last season..jackson at 37

Tatum was only ok in shooting the 3 and getting to the line vs Jackson shot better from the 3 pt line ...but also shot 40 more FTS

at a worst rate than than Tatum...but also got the opponents in more foul trouble

Jackson is also a better overall defender

If danny is after 3 and D...Jackson is his guy
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: SHAQATTACK on June 16, 2017, 09:56:01 PM
we are going to end up with Tatum and Lakers draft pick next year .......i just feel it in my bones.

At least Tatum can shoot but still yuck, if that's all the trade is we have to get a big back from them and they can take Rozier.


if we could get Covington in the deal ......Id feel a little better ......Tatum and Covington would help the front and add size and scoring where we are despert .

I scared DA is still in love with AB , Jae and Young and Rozier too much
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 16, 2017, 09:56:18 PM
Jesus Christ, why are we being so stupid about this...? Just take Markelle Fultz at #1.

Unless the Sixers are willing to offer Robert Covington, along with the LA 2018 or the SacTo 2019 pick, hang up the phone, Danny!

where have you been?? lol

the train is already moving
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 16, 2017, 09:57:22 PM
we are going to end up with Tatum and Lakers draft pick next year .......i just feel it in my bones.

At least Tatum can shoot but still yuck, if that's all the trade is we have to get a big back from them and they can take Rozier.


if we could get Covington in the deal ......Id feel a little better ......Tatum and Covington would help the front and add size and scoring where we are despert .

I scared DA is still in love with AB , Jae and Young and Rozier too much

sixers have made it clear they are not going to disrupt their core
simmons, embiid, saric, covington...
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PAOBoston on June 16, 2017, 09:58:16 PM
I don't know what to think right now. It's a combination of anxiety, depression, and excitement all at once.

Im with you. I wanted to attend the draft party this year, but I don't want to end up being a boo bird. Danny has done everything I wanted him to since drafting Marcus Smart. If we don't have Fultz or Anthony Davis come draft night, ill be sick.
I dont think I  would ever boo a draft pick. But NBA rumors are like no other. Totally gest the adrenaline rushing.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: SHAQATTACK on June 16, 2017, 09:59:26 PM
we are going to end up with Tatum and Lakers draft pick next year .......i just feel it in my bones.

At least Tatum can shoot but still yuck, if that's all the trade is we have to get a big back from them and they can take Rozier.

Tatum shot the 3 at 34 percent last season..jackson at 37

Tatum was only ok in shooting the 3 and getting to the line vs Jackson shot better from the 3 pt line ...but also shot 40 more FTS

at a worst rate than than Tatum...but also got the opponents in more foul trouble

Jackson is also a better overall defender

If danny is after 3 and D...Jackson is his guy

our luck tho.....Lakers take him .......Ive prepared for the worst .....Tatum and Lakers 2018 ........i d never chance that .......Ball is not a sure deal to the Lakers. 50/50 my guess.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: dreamgreen on June 16, 2017, 09:59:47 PM
we are going to end up with Tatum and Lakers draft pick next year .......i just feel it in my bones.

At least Tatum can shoot but still yuck, if that's all the trade is we have to get a big back from them and they can take Rozier.

Tatum shot the 3 at 34 percent last season..jackson at 37

Tatum was only ok in shooting the 3 and getting to the line vs Jackson shot better from the 3 pt line ...but also shot 40 more FTS

at a worst rate than than Tatum...but also got the opponents in more foul trouble

Jackson is also a better overall defender

If danny is after 3 and D...Jackson is his guy

I did read Tatum is still working to improve his 3 but he sounds like a terrific mid range guy which I know isn't in style right now but I'm predicting he will be a better shooter than Jackson, but you could easily be right.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: dreamgreen on June 16, 2017, 10:01:09 PM
we are going to end up with Tatum and Lakers draft pick next year .......i just feel it in my bones.

At least Tatum can shoot but still yuck, if that's all the trade is we have to get a big back from them and they can take Rozier.


if we could get Covington in the deal ......Id feel a little better ......Tatum and Covington would help the front and add size and scoring where we are despert .

I scared DA is still in love with AB , Jae and Young and Rozier too much

sixers have made it clear they are not going to disrupt their core
simmons, embiid, saric, covington...

Tell em to get Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.ed than!
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 16, 2017, 10:02:56 PM
we are going to end up with Tatum and Lakers draft pick next year .......i just feel it in my bones.

At least Tatum can shoot but still yuck, if that's all the trade is we have to get a big back from them and they can take Rozier.

Tatum shot the 3 at 34 percent last season..jackson at 37

Tatum was only ok in shooting the 3 and getting to the line vs Jackson shot better from the 3 pt line ...but also shot 40 more FTS

at a worst rate than than Tatum...but also got the opponents in more foul trouble

Jackson is also a better overall defender

If danny is after 3 and D...Jackson is his guy

I did read Tatum is still working to improve his 3 but he sounds like a terrific mid range guy which I know isn't in style right now but I'm predicting he will be a better shooter than Jackson, but you could easily be right.

I think Danny will try to get Tatum in for a workout or at least a meeting

but as of now Jackson is the only prospect that will be meeting the Celtics soon (per twitter)

Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: vjcsmoke on June 16, 2017, 10:05:55 PM
What if the Celtics make the trade and... the Lakers take Jackson at #2?  Because then we are screwed.

Fultz is off the board.  Jackson is off the board.

We can either draft a PG who has difficulty shooting midrange - Ball and whose dad's ego isn't a fit for Boston or we can select from the second tier of Tatum, Monk, Fox, etc.

It just seems very risky to make this trade when you needed the ping pong balls to bounce 'just right' to land #1 in this year's draft.

And what would the package be in return?

It had better be a Penny Hardaway level trade - ie #3 plus two-three unprotected #1 picks or it won't be worth it. 

Even then thinking of the Hardaway trade - did any good players come out of the future firsts outside of Penny himself?  I can't remember a single memorable selection.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 16, 2017, 10:06:16 PM
we are going to end up with Tatum and Lakers draft pick next year .......i just feel it in my bones.

At least Tatum can shoot but still yuck, if that's all the trade is we have to get a big back from them and they can take Rozier.

Tatum shot the 3 at 34 percent last season..jackson at 37

Tatum was only ok in shooting the 3 and getting to the line vs Jackson shot better from the 3 pt line ...but also shot 40 more FTS

at a worst rate than than Tatum...but also got the opponents in more foul trouble

Jackson is also a better overall defender

If danny is after 3 and D...Jackson is his guy

our luck tho.....Lakers take him .......Ive prepared for the worst .....Tatum and Lakers 2018 ........i d never chance that .......Ball is not a sure deal to the Lakers. 50/50 my guess.

IF Lakers take Jackson at #2... i seriously can't see Danny taking Ball ...  and dealing with his crazy father

plus if he takes Ball.. there is a decent chance he could join the Lakers after his rookie deal.. its just a headache


Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: SHAQATTACK on June 16, 2017, 10:06:54 PM
we are going to end up with Tatum and Lakers draft pick next year .......i just feel it in my bones.

At least Tatum can shoot but still yuck, if that's all the trade is we have to get a big back from them and they can take Rozier.


if we could get Covington in the deal ......Id feel a little better ......Tatum and Covington would help the front and add size and scoring where we are despert .

I scared DA is still in love with AB , Jae and Young and Rozier too much

sixers have made it clear they are not going to disrupt their core
simmons, embiid, saric, covington...

Tell em to get ****ed than!

i agree ......no deal unless we a deal for Covington ....for Rozier. .....AB is just going to kill the cap ....got to get rid of him and KO.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: SHAQATTACK on June 16, 2017, 10:11:00 PM
we are going to end up with Tatum and Lakers draft pick next year .......i just feel it in my bones.

At least Tatum can shoot but still yuck, if that's all the trade is we have to get a big back from them and they can take Rozier.

Tatum shot the 3 at 34 percent last season..jackson at 37

Tatum was only ok in shooting the 3 and getting to the line vs Jackson shot better from the 3 pt line ...but also shot 40 more FTS

at a worst rate than than Tatum...but also got the opponents in more foul trouble

Jackson is also a better overall defender

If danny is after 3 and D...Jackson is his guy

our luck tho.....Lakers take him .......Ive prepared for the worst .....Tatum and Lakers 2018 ........i d never chance that .......Ball is not a sure deal to the Lakers. 50/50 my guess.

IF Lakers take Jackson at #2... i seriously can't see Danny taking Ball ...  and dealing with his crazy father

plus if he takes Ball.. there is a decent chance he could join the Lakers after his rookie deal.. its just a headache


see.....thats what is going to happen l..Lakers take Jackson .....that leaves us with Tatum and Lakers pick ......unless DA has inside info 90% or better LA takes Ball or DA. ha another pretty certain deal working for a star .....hopefully PG .....not Butler
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: jdz101 on June 16, 2017, 10:11:07 PM
This is so stupid if it happens.

Worst thing is we're doing the deal with a division rival. So if it goes bad and Fultz is a jet, we'll have to play him 4 or more times a year plus playoffs every year, and get the pie rubbed in our face every time.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: SHAQATTACK on June 16, 2017, 10:13:22 PM
Fultz > than Tatum and Lakers 2018 pick.......

this sucks DA .....don't be stupid .
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 16, 2017, 10:16:07 PM
What if the Celtics make the trade and... the Lakers take Jackson at #2? Because then we are screwed.


I think Danny and staff have assessed this risk and have two prospects in mind, if one is chosen by the Lakers


Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: __ramonezy__ on June 16, 2017, 10:21:04 PM
I'm not sure I understand the angst. This was hailed to be one of the best drafts in recent history but all of a sudden there are no good prospects at #3?

Plus we could possibly pick up Lakers 2018 which may very well leave us with 2 top five picks in 2018.

We can't develop 10 rookies at once so I expect several trades to add future value... Zizic, Jaylen year 2 and high level FA and we are good. If we already have a commitment from Hayward there's simply no need for Fultz.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Dchuck on June 16, 2017, 10:21:21 PM
What if the Celtics make the trade and... the Lakers take Jackson at #2? Because then we are screwed.


I think Danny and staff have assessed this risk and have two prospects in mind, if one is chosen by the Lakers

So as usual we get the leftovers.  There has to be one person he wants more than the other.  It's not encouraging to think we'll have to end up taking "Option B", when we could have had the pick of the litter.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: satch on June 16, 2017, 10:21:44 PM
Need a shot blocker and offensive rebounder. How we get here is the question???
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: mr. dee on June 16, 2017, 10:25:51 PM
I'm not sure I understand the angst. This was hailed to be one of the best drafts in recent history but all of a sudden there are no good prospects at #3?

Plus we could possibly pick up Lakers 2018 which may very well leave us with 2 top five picks in 2018.

We can't develop 10 rookies at once so I expect several trades to add future value... Zizic, Jaylen year 2 and high level FA and we are good. If we already have a commitment from Hayward there's simply no need for Fultz.

I can't believe the irrationality of this blog sometimes, especially when they already set their eyes on a certain player in the off season already. Remember the heat when Danny drafted Jaylen Brown and Rozier?
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on June 16, 2017, 10:25:59 PM
In thinking about this a little more, if the Celtics are really in "serious" talks with Philly and no players are involved, Fultz's medical may have been concerning. 

Romero was oddly vague about Fultz's knee (gulp) injury and failed to answer direct questions about it.  It was described as "sore" for a prolonged period of time and required rest -- symptoms consistent with what you might expect from a meniscus issue.  We can only speculate, but Ainge has more info than all of us but saltlover.  Ya never know...

One thing we do know, though, is that Philly makes no qualms about taking risks on injury-prone but highly touted prospects.  And nonetheless, reports suggest that talks have stalled until Fult's medical with PHI.

Frankly, I find these proposed offers to be disappointing.  There's no one else in this draft I even find particularly exciting.  And perhaps that's just the "Fultz effect," but I'm not so sure.  What a weird and unexpected scenario. 
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: SHAQATTACK on June 16, 2017, 10:26:00 PM
What if the Celtics make the trade and... the Lakers take Jackson at #2? Because then we are screwed.


I think Danny and staff have assessed this risk and have two prospects in mind, if one is chosen by the Lakers


i agree......DA trying to squeeze too,much out of,the situation emds up with bunch more,of role players ......we know he sucks making draft choices.   

Danny trying to be too cute is going to,backfire and bite him in the azz.

So as usual we get the leftovers.  There has to be one person he wants more than the other.  It's not encouraging to think we'll have to end up taking "Option B", when we could have had the pick of the litter.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: vjcsmoke on June 16, 2017, 10:28:36 PM
Covington is a role player.  That's it.  He's not even as good a shooter as Crowder was last year.

Trading the #1 overall pick for the #3 and a role player is NOT even close to worth it.

Like I said before, check out the Penny Hardaway trade.  That's the type of value I'd look to get back in return if we were ever to move off #1. 

And this is STILL a risky move even if they give us #3, the Lakers 18 pick and the Sacramento 19 pick.

1.  The Lakers could take Jackson at #2.  Then we'd be screwed.
2.  The Lakers could sign a good free agent this summer and get into the respectable lower lottery area.  Having a pick between #10-14 next year would be a pretty poor return.
3.  The Kings might turn it around by 2019 or their pick turns out to be outside the top 5.

Too many things can go wrong.  It better be a godfather deal for Ainge to move that #1 pick.

if we could get Covington in the deal ......Id feel a little better ......Tatum and Covington would help the front and add size and scoring where we are despert .

I scared DA is still in love with AB , Jae and Young and Rozier too much
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: jpotter33 on June 16, 2017, 10:36:47 PM
Tom Moore, a beat writer for the 76ers, says a second version of the trade with the Bulls and 76ers has been floated around now, including:

Boston: Butler

Philly: #1

Chicago: #3, 2018 Brooklyn pick, Okafor


I'm calling major, major BS on that. We'd essentially be giving up 2 Brooklyn picks for Butler then, which he is clearly not worth. Why would we even involve Philly at all in this scenario? Butler could be had with the first pick by itself and something like Rozier most likely.

I'd say if that is part of the trade, then Philly is also sending us something like Simmons, Saric, several of their picks (LA, Sac, etc.), or some combination of those things. That trade as established is surely a no-go and makes no sense.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Dchuck on June 16, 2017, 10:40:25 PM
Actually, the more I think about it, I think Danny is infatuated with.....

Danny Ainge!

He's so caught up in his "Trader Dan" persona, he feels the need to perpetuate his alleged fleecing reputation. 

WE HAVE THE #1 PICK!!  U did it Danny.  We get it, u fleeced Bklyn.  Use the pick on the player who has everything we need.  This reminds me of the episode of Seinfeld where Kramer is on a joyride with the fuel light on but chooses to bypass the exit to push his luck and see how far he can go.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: SparzWizard on June 16, 2017, 10:43:10 PM
Tom Moore, a beat writer for the 76ers, says a second version of the trade with the Bulls and 76ers has been floated around now, including:

Boston: Butler

Philly: #1

Chicago: #3, 2018 Brooklyn pick, Okafor


I'm calling major, major BS on that. We'd essentially be giving up 2 Brooklyn picks for Butler then, which he is clearly not worth. Why would we even involve Philly at all in this scenario? Butler could be had with the first pick by itself and something like Rozier most likely.

I'd say if that is part of the trade, then Philly is also sending us something like Simmons, Saric, several of their picks (LA, Sac, etc.), or some combination of those things. That trade as established is surely a no-go and makes no sense.

It would be poetic justice to Brooklyn fans if Trader Danny gets fleeced in that deal. Seriously, two BKN picks for Jimmy Butler himself allows a GM to get deservedly fired imo.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Dino Pitino on June 16, 2017, 10:43:50 PM
Tom Moore, a beat writer for the 76ers, says a second version of the trade with the Bulls and 76ers has been floated around now, including:

Boston: Butler

Philly: #1

Chicago: #3, 2018 Brooklyn pick, Okafor


I'm calling major, major BS on that. We'd essentially be giving up 2 Brooklyn picks for Butler then, which he is clearly not worth. Why would we even involve Philly at all in this scenario? Butler could be had with the first pick by itself and something like Rozier most likely.

I'd say if that is part of the trade, then Philly is also sending us something like Simmons, Saric, several of their picks (LA, Sac, etc.), or some combination of those things. That trade as established is surely a no-go and makes no sense.

Total BS, must be a biased Chicago source who thinks Butler is as valuable as Anthony Davis. Makes zero sense for us.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 16, 2017, 10:46:20 PM
Covington is a role player.  That's it.  He's not even as good a shooter as Crowder was last year.

Trading the #1 overall pick for the #3 and a role player is NOT even close to worth it.

Like I said before, check out the Penny Hardaway trade.  That's the type of value I'd look to get back in return if we were ever to move off #1. 

And this is STILL a risky move even if they give us #3, the Lakers 18 pick and the Sacramento 19 pick.

1.  The Lakers could take Jackson at #2.  Then we'd be screwed.
2.  The Lakers could sign a good free agent this summer and get into the respectable lower lottery area.  Having a pick between #10-14 next year would be a pretty poor return.
3.  The Kings might turn it around by 2019 or their pick turns out to be outside the top 5.

Too many things can go wrong.  It better be a godfather deal for Ainge to move that #1 pick.

if we could get Covington in the deal ......Id feel a little better ......Tatum and Covington would help the front and add size and scoring where we are despert .

I scared DA is still in love with AB , Jae and Young and Rozier too much

Lakers will take Ball imo. 

Lakers likely won't mess with their capsapce . So that they have a shot to sign PG13 next season
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Dino Pitino on June 16, 2017, 10:46:42 PM
Quote
Even then thinking of the Hardaway trade - did any good players come out of the future firsts outside of Penny himself?  I can't remember a single memorable selection.

Two of the three 1sts eventually became Vince Carter and Mike Miller. So...yeah.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: fantankerous on June 16, 2017, 10:54:44 PM
Tom Moore, a beat writer for the 76ers, says a second version of the trade with the Bulls and 76ers has been floated around now, including:

Boston: Butler

Philly: #1

Chicago: #3, 2018 Brooklyn pick, Okafor


I'm calling major, major BS on that. We'd essentially be giving up 2 Brooklyn picks for Butler then, which he is clearly not worth. Why would we even involve Philly at all in this scenario? Butler could be had with the first pick by itself and something like Rozier most likely.

I'd say if that is part of the trade, then Philly is also sending us something like Simmons, Saric, several of their picks (LA, Sac, etc.), or some combination of those things. That trade as established is surely a no-go and makes no sense.

Total BS, must be a biased Chicago source who thinks Butler is as valuable as Anthony Davis. Makes zero sense for us.

I can believe this is what Chicago is asking for.  I cannot believe this is a deal Boston would accept.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: the TRUTH on June 16, 2017, 11:00:02 PM
Haven't had a chance to read this entire thread yet, so I apologize if someone else has mentioned this. Unless we absolutely destroy Philly in this deal, I don't think there's any way Ainge does it. Also, Ainge - and the C's as a whole - are usually outstanding at keeping major deals quiet until they actually happen. Philly would have no incentive to leak this, because that just increases their competition to make a move. And if the Celtics were genuinely interested in doing this deal, I don't think it would've been leaked. To me, I think this is most likely Boston leaking it in an effort to try to force another team's hand to come in with a godfather type of offer for #1.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: aingeforthree on June 16, 2017, 11:01:01 PM
Actually, the more I think about it, I think Danny is infatuated with.....

Danny Ainge!

He's so caught up in his "Trader Dan" persona, he feels the need to perpetuate his alleged fleecing reputation. 

WE HAVE THE #1 PICK!!  U did it Danny.  We get it, u fleeced Bklyn.  Use the pick on the player who has everything we need.  This reminds me of the episode of Seinfeld where Kramer is on a joyride with the fuel light on but chooses to bypass the exit to push his luck and see how far he can go.

No way. Just smart business. If you can get a player you want plus more picks you do it. No brainer
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: liam on June 16, 2017, 11:02:00 PM
You have to ask who would be leaking this rumor and why and if it's all just click bait?
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: saltlover on June 16, 2017, 11:03:07 PM
Tom Moore, a beat writer for the 76ers, says a second version of the trade with the Bulls and 76ers has been floated around now, including:

Boston: Butler

Philly: #1

Chicago: #3, 2018 Brooklyn pick, Okafor


I'm calling major, major BS on that. We'd essentially be giving up 2 Brooklyn picks for Butler then, which he is clearly not worth. Why would we even involve Philly at all in this scenario? Butler could be had with the first pick by itself and something like Rozier most likely.

I'd say if that is part of the trade, then Philly is also sending us something like Simmons, Saric, several of their picks (LA, Sac, etc.), or some combination of those things. That trade as established is surely a no-go and makes no sense.

Yeah, no way is Ainge trading #1 overall straight up for Butler.  He'd have done that in Feburary if that was his aim.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Dchuck on June 16, 2017, 11:03:57 PM
Actually, the more I think about it, I think Danny is infatuated with.....

Danny Ainge!

He's so caught up in his "Trader Dan" persona, he feels the need to perpetuate his alleged fleecing reputation. 

WE HAVE THE #1 PICK!!  U did it Danny.  We get it, u fleeced Bklyn.  Use the pick on the player who has everything we need.  This reminds me of the episode of Seinfeld where Kramer is on a joyride with the fuel light on but chooses to bypass the exit to push his luck and see how far he can go.

No way. Just smart business. If you can get a player you want plus more picks you do it. No brainer

Hes not guaranteed to get the player he wants at #3.  He is at #1 tho.  Its not a no brainer!
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: cousytoheinsohn on June 16, 2017, 11:09:34 PM
Actually, the more I think about it, I think Danny is infatuated with.....

Danny Ainge!

He's so caught up in his "Trader Dan" persona, he feels the need to perpetuate his alleged fleecing reputation. 

WE HAVE THE #1 PICK!!  U did it Danny.  We get it, u fleeced Bklyn.  Use the pick on the player who has everything we need.  This reminds me of the episode of Seinfeld where Kramer is on a joyride with the fuel light on but chooses to bypass the exit to push his luck and see how far he can go.

This.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Sophomore on June 16, 2017, 11:10:38 PM
Tom Moore, a beat writer for the 76ers, says a second version of the trade with the Bulls and 76ers has been floated around now, including:

Boston: Butler

Philly: #1

Chicago: #3, 2018 Brooklyn pick, Okafor


I'm calling major, major BS on that. We'd essentially be giving up 2 Brooklyn picks for Butler then, which he is clearly not worth. Why would we even involve Philly at all in this scenario? Butler could be had with the first pick by itself and something like Rozier most likely.

I'd say if that is part of the trade, then Philly is also sending us something like Simmons, Saric, several of their picks (LA, Sac, etc.), or some combination of those things. That trade as established is surely a no-go and makes no sense.

Total BS, must be a biased Chicago source who thinks Butler is as valuable as Anthony Davis. Makes zero sense for us.

I can believe this is what Chicago is asking for.  I cannot believe this is a deal Boston would accept.

I mostly think that is a trade Boston would not take... and then I remember the reports that Ainge was ready to send six picks to get Winslow a few years ago.   And then I worry.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: the TRUTH on June 16, 2017, 11:11:35 PM
You have to ask who would be leaking this rumor and why and if it's all just click bait?

Exactly.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PaulP34 on June 16, 2017, 11:12:00 PM
Lol n i think i said this a possibility
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: SHAQATTACK on June 16, 2017, 11:14:10 PM
Covington is a role player.  That's it.  He's not even as good a shooter as Crowder was last year.

Trading the #1 overall pick for the #3 and a role player is NOT even close to worth it.

Like I said before, check out the Penny Hardaway trade.  That's the type of value I'd look to get back in return if we were ever to move off #1. 

And this is STILL a risky move even if they give us #3, the Lakers 18 pick and the Sacramento 19 pick.

1.  The Lakers could take Jackson at #2.  Then we'd be screwed.
2.  The Lakers could sign a good free agent this summer and get into the respectable lower lottery area.  Having a pick between #10-14 next year would be a pretty poor return.
3.  The Kings might turn it around by 2019 or their pick turns out to be outside the top 5.

Too many things can go wrong.  It better be a godfather deal for Ainge to move that #1 pick.

if we could get Covington in the deal ......Id feel a little better ......Tatum and Covington would help the front and add size and scoring where we are despert .

I scared DA is still in love with AB , Jae and Young and Rozier too much

Lakers will take Ball imo. 

Lakers likely won't mess with their capsapce . So that they have a shot to sign PG13 next season


see that 2018 Lakers pick might not be a top 5 or even 10 if Geroge signs with LA....... it might be a 14 or 15 pick .   

Ball and George mght kill that 2018 LA pick value

id want Fultz and THREE firsts to swap down .,   Philly could be better too ....although not as lkely ....i stll think Fultz will,be better than LA or Philly picks .....especically if they are 5 or higher .

we have no guareentee thos picks will be top fives.....LA and Philly could sign some vets and play ball and be out of the lottery very easy.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: jpotter33 on June 16, 2017, 11:21:00 PM
https://twitter.com/SteveBHoop/status/875907740715163652?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fboston-celtics

Quote
Personal feeling is that Celtics-Philly deal is close, but momentum could be lost if it drags out too long. Minds could change.

That's from Bulpett, who is about as reliable as they come from the C's side, though he does do Danny's bidding at times.

I think the talks are real and serious, but I'm still not sure that they ultimately get done. That takes a lot of balls to trade the number one pick like that, and I could see Danny souring on the idea after sleeping on it.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Smokeeye123 on June 16, 2017, 11:22:00 PM
Covington is a role player.  That's it.  He's not even as good a shooter as Crowder was last year.

Trading the #1 overall pick for the #3 and a role player is NOT even close to worth it.

Like I said before, check out the Penny Hardaway trade.  That's the type of value I'd look to get back in return if we were ever to move off #1. 

And this is STILL a risky move even if they give us #3, the Lakers 18 pick and the Sacramento 19 pick.

1.  The Lakers could take Jackson at #2.  Then we'd be screwed.
2.  The Lakers could sign a good free agent this summer and get into the respectable lower lottery area.  Having a pick between #10-14 next year would be a pretty poor return.
3.  The Kings might turn it around by 2019 or their pick turns out to be outside the top 5.

Too many things can go wrong.  It better be a godfather deal for Ainge to move that #1 pick.

if we could get Covington in the deal ......Id feel a little better ......Tatum and Covington would help the front and add size and scoring where we are despert .

I scared DA is still in love with AB , Jae and Young and Rozier too much
George is not a free agent until after 2018
Lakers will take Ball imo. 

Lakers likely won't mess with their capsapce . So that they have a shot to sign PG13 next season


see that 2018 Lakers pick might not be a top 5 or even 10 if Geroge signs with LA....... it might be a 14 or 15 pick .   

Ball and George mght kill that 2018 LA pick value

id want Fultz and THREE firsts to swap down .,   Philly could be better too ....although not as lkely ....i stll think Fultz will,be better than LA or Philly picks .....especically if they are 5 or higher .

we have no guareentee thos picks will be top fives.....LA and Philly could sign some vets and play ball and be out of the lottery very easy.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: green_bballers13 on June 16, 2017, 11:24:00 PM
Gosh people are soft on this blog.

In order to get other GMs to present offers for #1, it would make sense for Danny (or someone else inside the front office) to leak news that that they're talking with Philly. Suddenly a team that covets Fultz might want to go overboard and offer something better than Philly....

In my opinion, Danny is creating a market for the #1. This means he is doing his job.... well.

Also, it is a little weird to fall in love with a 19 year old basketball player, knowing all well that a majority of the all stars in the league were not #1.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: SHAQATTACK on June 16, 2017, 11:26:29 PM
https://twitter.com/SteveBHoop/status/875907740715163652?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fboston-celtics

Quote
Personal feeling is that Celtics-Philly deal is close, but momentum could be lost if it drags out too long. Minds could change.

That's from Bulpett, who is about as reliable as they come from the C's side, though he does do Danny's bidding at times.

I think the talks are real and serious, but I'm still not sure that they ultimately get done. That takes a lot of balls to trade the number one pick like that, and I could see Danny souring on the idea after sleeping on it.

pro .....im concerned the over value of the picks Philly wants to give .  Those teams are going to sign vet playes and want to win .......Like Paul George ......that could kill the value of those picks .....LA and Philly might not be tanking next year. 

If DA is not sure about Fultz , then take Jackson and call it a day .    Those picks philly wants to give us migjt not be top 5...,,, thats just this board dreaming .
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: A Future of Stevens on June 16, 2017, 11:30:48 PM
https://twitter.com/SteveBHoop/status/875907740715163652?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fboston-celtics

Quote
Personal feeling is that Celtics-Philly deal is close, but momentum could be lost if it drags out too long. Minds could change.

That's from Bulpett, who is about as reliable as they come from the C's side, though he does do Danny's bidding at times.

I think the talks are real and serious, but I'm still not sure that they ultimately get done. That takes a lot of balls to trade the number one pick like that, and I could see Danny souring on the idea after sleeping on it.

pro .....im concerned the over value of the picks Philly wants to give .  Those teams are going to sign vet playes and want to win .......Like Paul George ......that could kill the value of those picks .....LA and Philly might not be tanking next year. 

If DA is not sure about Fultz , then take Jackson and call it a day .    Those picks philly wants to give us migjt not be top 5...,,, thats just this board dreaming .

Out of respect Shaq, I will remind you that the proposed Lakers trade is the 2018 Lakers pick. Paul George is a free agent in the same off season as the already conveyed puck. So unless the Lakers give up assets to trade for PG, they don't have a way to impact the 2018 Lakers pick other than internal growth
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Bobshot on June 16, 2017, 11:31:09 PM
Ainge better have something to do with those draft picks he gets that helps this team short range, or it won't make much sense. I assume he has thought this thing out and will have some good reasons for trading the pick. He will need them.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Eja117 on June 16, 2017, 11:34:01 PM
Gosh people are soft on this blog.

In order to get other GMs to present offers for #1, it would make sense for Danny (or someone else inside the front office) to leak news that that they're talking with Philly. Suddenly a team that covets Fultz might want to go overboard and offer something better than Philly....

In my opinion, Danny is creating a market for the #1. This means he is doing his job.... well.

Also, it is a little weird to fall in love with a 19 year old basketball player, knowing all well that a majority of the all stars in the league were not #1.
And then Philly is like "We're not talking about this with Boston."
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: wiley on June 16, 2017, 11:57:55 PM
There may be a consensus among top 3 teams that Fultz and Jackson are clearly tier 1.  Thus, Boston Lakers and Philly all want one of those two guys. 

Thus, Philly on outside looking in. 

So, Philly offers quite a deal to Boston, such that Danny is willing to settle for Ball or Tatum, etc.. Danny asks for a lot.  Otherwise sorry Philly stay out of tier 1. 

In the end, Danny is happy with extra picks as he believes tier 1 (Fultz and Jackson) and tier 2 (let's say Ball, Tatum and Isaac) in this draft is not as far apart as others feel. 

Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: chambers on June 17, 2017, 12:02:08 AM
Considering Jackson cancelled his workout with the Celtics, and Ball refused to work out of us, one would have to assume if we are trading away the #1 pick it means we are getting Paul George or Jimmy Butler and we are sending the #3 pick to Chicago or Indiana.

We get a haul from Philly of picks and maybe Okafor.
Chicago gets #3 (or Indiana)
We get a star player with lots of future picks.

Bulpett is reasonably reliable, but he's also Ainge's mouthpiece.

I'd prefer Butler or PG13 over any of those guys at #2,3 or 4.

Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on June 17, 2017, 12:04:02 AM
https://twitter.com/SteveBHoop/status/875907740715163652?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fboston-celtics

Quote
Personal feeling is that Celtics-Philly deal is close, but momentum could be lost if it drags out too long. Minds could change.

That's from Bulpett, who is about as reliable as they come from the C's side, though he does do Danny's bidding at times.

I think the talks are real and serious, but I'm still not sure that they ultimately get done. That takes a lot of balls to trade the number one pick like that, and I could see Danny souring on the idea after sleeping on it.

pro .....im concerned the over value of the picks Philly wants to give .  Those teams are going to sign vet playes and want to win .......Like Paul George ......that could kill the value of those picks .....LA and Philly might not be tanking next year. 

If DA is not sure about Fultz , then take Jackson and call it a day .    Those picks philly wants to give us migjt not be top 5...,,, thats just this board dreaming .

No, we should take Fultz.

We TRADE for Jackson and get some assets in return, if that's who he really wants. Worse case scenario is we land the best prospect in the draft.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 17, 2017, 12:12:23 AM
Considering Jackson cancelled his workout with the Celtics, and Ball refused to work out of us, one would have to assume if we are trading away the #1 pick it means we are getting Paul George or Jimmy Butler and we are sending the #3 pick to Chicago or Indiana.

Per twitter, Jackson is going to meet with the Celtics soon
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: CelticsElite on June 17, 2017, 12:14:07 AM
https://twitter.com/SteveBHoop/status/875907740715163652?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fboston-celtics

Quote
Personal feeling is that Celtics-Philly deal is close, but momentum could be lost if it drags out too long. Minds could change.

That's from Bulpett, who is about as reliable as they come from the C's side, though he does do Danny's bidding at times.

I think the talks are real and serious, but I'm still not sure that they ultimately get done. That takes a lot of balls to trade the number one pick like that, and I could see Danny souring on the idea after sleeping on it.

pro .....im concerned the over value of the picks Philly wants to give .  Those teams are going to sign vet playes and want to win .......Like Paul George ......that could kill the value of those picks .....LA and Philly might not be tanking next year. 

If DA is not sure about Fultz , then take Jackson and call it a day .    Those picks philly wants to give us migjt not be top 5...,,, thats just this board dreaming .

No, we should take Fultz.

We TRADE for Jackson and get some assets in return, if that's who he really wants. Worse case scenario is we land the best prospect in the draft.
Danny has other trades pending
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: wiley on June 17, 2017, 12:14:13 AM
Considering Jackson cancelled his workout with the Celtics, and Ball refused to work out of us, one would have to assume if we are trading away the #1 pick it means we are getting Paul George or Jimmy Butler and we are sending the #3 pick to Chicago or Indiana.

We get a haul from Philly of picks and maybe Okafor.
Chicago gets #3 (or Indiana)
We get a star player with lots of future picks.

Bulpett is reasonably reliable, but he's also Ainge's mouthpiece.

I'd prefer Butler or PG13 over any of those guys at #2,3 or 4.

Yeah good post.  If Ainge can land numerous good to excellent picks he'll feel much better about Butler/George for Fultz/Jackson.  He said they needed two stars...he'd have 1 in this case.  Fultz not greater than Butler in total impact for at least 3 years....and may not catch Paul George impact until George is near retirement.   
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: max215 on June 17, 2017, 12:19:17 AM
Alright, I'm checking out for a while. Hopefully, I'll wake up from this nightmare.

Hi, I'm back. This is real. Oh brother, this is real.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: chambers on June 17, 2017, 12:23:13 AM
Considering Jackson cancelled his workout with the Celtics, and Ball refused to work out of us, one would have to assume if we are trading away the #1 pick it means we are getting Paul George or Jimmy Butler and we are sending the #3 pick to Chicago or Indiana.

We get a haul from Philly of picks and maybe Okafor.
Chicago gets #3 (or Indiana)
We get a star player with lots of future picks.

Bulpett is reasonably reliable, but he's also Ainge's mouthpiece.

I'd prefer Butler or PG13 over any of those guys at #2,3 or 4.

Yeah good post.  If Ainge can land numerous good to excellent picks he'll feel much better about Butler/George for Fultz/Jackson.  He said they needed two stars...he'd have 1 in this case.  Fultz not greater than Butler in total impact for at least 3 years....and may not catch Paul George impact until George is near retirement.

exactly ;)

Personally for some reason I'd rather gamble on keeping Fultz and Hayward but I'm fine if he goes after PG or Butler and gets some good picks too.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 17, 2017, 12:30:35 AM
Quote
Bobby Marks: Boston would create $1.4m in cap space in 17-18 for swapping #1 for #3. #1 pick= $7.0m #3 pick= $5.6m – via Twitter BobbyMarks42

Quote
Bobby Marks: Celtics could get to $29.5m ($800k below max) in room this July. Would only have 7 guaranteed contracts plus #3 pick on the roster. – via Twitter BobbyMarks42
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: nickagneta on June 17, 2017, 12:34:50 AM
My three way:

To Boston: Butler, better of Philly 2018 and Lakers 2018, Sacramento 2019
To Chicago: Okafor, Bradley, Filler, Brooklyn 2018, Philly 2017
To Philly: Crowder, Brooklyn 2017
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: ImShakHeIsShaq on June 17, 2017, 12:39:44 AM
Quote
Bobby Marks: Boston would create $1.4m in cap space in 17-18 for swapping #1 for #3. #1 pick= $7.0m #3 pick= $5.6m – via Twitter BobbyMarks42

Quote
Bobby Marks: Celtics could get to $29.5m ($800k below max) in room this July. Would only have 7 guaranteed contracts plus #3 pick on the roster. – via Twitter BobbyMarks42

we can get there by other means and take Fultz, I'm up for a lot of ideas to keep Fultz. I want to keep AB too so I will send out other nonessentials, even Marcus Smart.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: CelticsElite on June 17, 2017, 02:09:28 AM
Would the Celtics really want jackson after the cancelled the celtics? implies he doesn't want to be with the tesm
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: RockinRyA on June 17, 2017, 02:18:36 AM
Do we really want the Sixers to get the no.1 pick in the draft?

No way Im trading with a division rival that could potentially be our downfall in the next few years.

Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Beat LA on June 17, 2017, 02:22:50 AM
I'm all for trading down, but only for picks in THIS YEAR'S DRAFT, not in the future.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Beat LA on June 17, 2017, 02:23:43 AM
My three way:

To Boston: Butler, better of Philly 2018 and Lakers 2018, Sacramento 2019
To Chicago: Okafor, Bradley, Filler, Brooklyn 2018, Philly 2017
To Philly: Crowder, Brooklyn 2017

Sounds kinky ;) ;D.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: gouki88 on June 17, 2017, 02:25:00 AM
This would be such a dumb move oh Lordy.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Casperian on June 17, 2017, 05:13:41 AM
Man, you take a break from Celtics news for one day...ONE DAY!

The plot thickens...
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Chief on June 17, 2017, 05:27:10 AM
Tom Moore, a beat writer for the 76ers, says a second version of the trade with the Bulls and 76ers has been floated around now, including:

Boston: Butler

Philly: #1

Chicago: #3, 2018 Brooklyn pick, Okafor


I'm calling major, major BS on that. We'd essentially be giving up 2 Brooklyn picks for Butler then, which he is clearly not worth. Why would we even involve Philly at all in this scenario? Butler could be had with the first pick by itself and something like Rozier most likely.

I'd say if that is part of the trade, then Philly is also sending us something like Simmons, Saric, several of their picks (LA, Sac, etc.), or some combination of those things. That trade as established is surely a no-go and makes no sense.

If Boston did this, surely he flips Bradley for a big man this summer.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Darío SpanishFan on June 17, 2017, 05:36:27 AM
Some thoughts.

I haven't seen Fultz, Ball, Jackson and so on play consistently. In Spain, watching the NCAA is almost impossible. So I can't say if Fultz is a generational talent or the gap among them is too high to make this deal or not.

Said that, the feeling of a pre-arrangement with Hayward/Griffin, which has always seemed obvious to me when we stood pat in February, is confirmed. Trading down and not taking players in return means creating more space to be prepared for this maximum FA to be signed.

Also, I don't know if there are moves pending after trading 1 for 3 in this draft. As it's been suggested, I mean Butler, George or a hidden name. In Ainge I trust, really. So I just want to wait until the day is done and we see if this trade is finalized, or others, before entering panic mode. And all of you should, too. We are reacting over rumours and don't know the entire plan. And if Ainge has proved something in his 15-year span in our FO is that he always has a plan.

I don't want to give up this year's 1st and 2018 Brooklyn pick for Butler or George. This doesn't put us ahead the Warriors, even close, but we are trading our future to contend in a very hard period. This would be the worst possible move, in my opinion.

If this happens, what really worries me is the Philly team for the next decade, provided they are more or less healthy. Simmons, Fultz, Embiid, complements like Saric, Covington or Holmes and the FA this could attract is really a serious problem.

Finally, if we get and keep the Lakers 2018 unprotected pick, I'd be quite happy. They have Ingram, Russell, Randle and probably Ball/Jackson, plus veterans in awful contracts (Deng, Mozgov). They are waiting to sign big FAs in 2018, where PG and LeBron are the big prizes. So they'll try to clean the house and trade those bad contracts with picks attached to convince teams. I think they are probably bottom 5 this year again.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: RLewis35 on June 17, 2017, 05:56:57 AM
Gotta think if we only get one pick back it's whichever is better between the LA pick and phillys owb pick - which gives us that many more chances At the top 3 next year.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Celtics4ever on June 17, 2017, 06:15:13 AM
Quote
I haven't seen Fultz, Ball, Jackson and so on play consistently. In Spain, watching the NCAA is almost impossible. So I can't say if Fultz is a generational talent or the gap among them is too high to make this deal or not.

Youtube is your friend and you can find tons of videos of their game play.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: TheSundanceKid on June 17, 2017, 06:22:37 AM
I believe the rumours. Ainge has said all along he thinks there isn't much separation between the top 4. We all know Philly wants a star pg in the draft, whatever the rumours say. He'll try to maximise the value of this pick because he has the other team right where he wants them.

#1 for #3, Sac 19 and the better of the Phi/Lal 18 pick would be what I hope for. Perhaps we send back the Lac 19 pick to even it out.

There is also the Nets 18 to consider. Very important draft for us and Philly happens to be the closest rival to Brooklyn, playing them 4 times. I'm sure that has entered Danny's mind in all this as an added benefit.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: cltc5 on June 17, 2017, 06:28:29 AM
Jj all the way!!!!!!! 
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Neurotic Guy on June 17, 2017, 06:32:32 AM
As I said in the other thread, #1 for Butler (would go as #3 and LAL '18) is a bummer, but I suppose acceptable depending on what happens next.   #1 plus Nets '18 (#3, LAL '18 and Nets '18) for Butler is an overpay that would make me cry.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: gouki88 on June 17, 2017, 06:43:42 AM
As I said in the other thread, #1 for Butler (would go as #3 and LAL '18) is a bummer, but I suppose acceptable depending on what happens next.   #1 plus Nets '18 (#3, LAL '18 and Nets '18) for Butler is an overpay that would make me cry.
The latter trade would break my heart. Surely DA isn't that shortsighted.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Alleyoopster on June 17, 2017, 06:58:39 AM
My gut feeling is Danny will trade Fultz. Danny almost always prefers athletic, defensive-minded mediocre shooters to good shooters. This type of trade would be more of the same. If this trade happens Isaiah will once again shoulder the team's shooting load. Time to get another scorer. Look at the Warriors... shooting is what wins games.

Danny don't make this trade. You've already helped Cleveland win a Championship. Don't help Philly do the same. 

Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: gouki88 on June 17, 2017, 07:38:48 AM
My gut feeling is Danny will trade Fultz. Danny almost always prefers athletic, defensive-minded mediocre shooters to good shooters. This type of trade would be more of the same. If this trade happens Isaiah will once again shoulder the team's shooting load. Time to get another scorer. Look at the Warriors... shooting is what wins games.

Danny don't make this trade. You've already helped Cleveland win a Championship. Don't help Philly do the same.
On the money. Grit and grind only gets you so far, as the 2010- Memphis team has shown.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Darío SpanishFan on June 17, 2017, 07:40:47 AM
Quote
I haven't seen Fultz, Ball, Jackson and so on play consistently. In Spain, watching the NCAA is almost impossible. So I can't say if Fultz is a generational talent or the gap among them is too high to make this deal or not.

Youtube is your friend and you can find tons of videos of their game play.

I know, man. But I want to watch them play in actual games, not just highlights or samples. I'll watch summer league as always, so by then I'll have an opinion.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: greece66 on June 17, 2017, 07:42:02 AM
Bullsh*t

per several league sources
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: BlackCeltic on June 17, 2017, 07:48:41 AM
Don't worry, it wont be long before all the analysts say how foolish we were to trade away the #1 pick.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Fan from VT on June 17, 2017, 07:50:38 AM
The thing that makes me hesitant about this trade, is look back at the last few drafts; hypothetically dropping back from 1 to 3 is typically a major disaster. If Ainge does this, he is banking on his being a way better talent evaluator that the rest of the league; the history of general consensus #1 picks is pretty darn good, way better than any other draft spot, even #2.

I still think no one on our roster is good enough to justify altering your draft strategy to accommodate position, or avoiding roster crunch.

Fultz probably isn't Jordan, but think Portland regrets taking Bowie because they were "all set" at SG with Drexler? Drexler and Jordan couldn't have figured out how to make it work?

Looking at it, talent and potential-wise, Fultz just looks a step above the rest. Prior to having the number 1 pick, I'd have been happy to add any of them; but now we have the chance to add a potential roster anchor/cornerstone.


I also can't shake this part from his draftexpress profile, especially when you are actually debating between him and Fultz:
Quote
With that said, his small hands, 6'10 wingspan and narrow 207 pound frame may limit his effectiveness playing the small-ball power forward role he was so successful filling in college, and the fact that he's an older freshman at 20 years old makes you wonder how much more strength his frame will carry down the line.   - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Josh-Jackson-7239/ ©DraftExpress

He is more than a year older than Fultz, and they have the same wingspan!
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: BlackCeltic on June 17, 2017, 07:58:52 AM
The thing that makes me hesitant about this trade, is look back at the last few drafts; hypothetically dropping back from 1 to 3 is typically a major disaster. If Ainge does this, he is banking on his being a way better talent evaluator that the rest of the league; the history of general consensus #1 picks is pretty darn good, way better than any other draft spot, even #2.

I still think no one on our roster is good enough to justify altering your draft strategy to accommodate position, or avoiding roster crunch.

Fultz probably isn't Jordan, but think Portland regrets taking Bowie because they were "all set" at SG with Drexler? Drexler and Jordan couldn't have figured out how to make it work?

Looking at it, talent and potential-wise, Fultz just looks a step above the rest. Prior to having the number 1 pick, I'd have been happy to add any of them; but now we have the chance to add a potential roster anchor/cornerstone.


I also can't shake this part from his draftexpress profile, especially when you are actually debating between him and Fultz:
Quote
With that said, his small hands, 6'10 wingspan and narrow 207 pound frame may limit his effectiveness playing the small-ball power forward role he was so successful filling in college, and the fact that he's an older freshman at 20 years old makes you wonder how much more strength his frame will carry down the line.   - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Josh-Jackson-7239/ ©DraftExpress

He is more than a year older than Fultz, and they have the same wingspan!

I cant imagine Ainge going away from the player with NBA ready size, based on recent draft history. Ever since Marcus Smart, Ainge has been drafting players with muscle. Jackson and Ball are both frail, unlike Fultz.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: mctyson on June 17, 2017, 08:02:17 AM
There may be a consensus among top 3 teams that Fultz and Jackson are clearly tier 1.  Thus, Boston Lakers and Philly all want one of those two guys. 

Thus, Philly on outside looking in. 

So, Philly offers quite a deal to Boston, such that Danny is willing to settle for Ball or Tatum, etc.. Danny asks for a lot.  Otherwise sorry Philly stay out of tier 1. 

In the end, Danny is happy with extra picks as he believes tier 1 (Fultz and Jackson) and tier 2 (let's say Ball, Tatum and Isaac) in this draft is not as far apart as others feel.

I think this summarizes the situation very well.  I think Philly is not keen on Ball and they want Fultz and they have the assets to get a deal done with Boston.

I think LA is seriously considering taking Jackson who makes more sense with D Russel already there.

Danny stated publicly that he likes a couple guys in this draft.  I think you are right on that he has 3-5 players bunched together.  Maybe Fultz is #1 but its not by as much as some think.

It could go:  PHI - Fultz, LAL - Jackson, BOS - Tatum, PHX - Ball
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: JOMVP on June 17, 2017, 08:07:09 AM
Had a chance to sleep on this and I'm more mad than I was yesterday.

I'm hoping Danny comes to his senses and just picks Fultz.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: SHAQATTACK on June 17, 2017, 08:16:04 AM
Had a chance to sleep on this and I'm more mad than I was yesterday.

I'm hoping Danny comes to his senses and just picks Fultz.


i feel your pain .  All the rest of the GMs would take Fultz .   But we have the screwball who will try and get extra picks .  Throw away chance at the next Hardin . 

unless he is aiming to trade for a pair of stars to compete with Cavs and GS .  He should just take Fultz and wait out Lebron .

He loves too,many or his current players too.  Values them way too high.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: KGBirdBias on June 17, 2017, 08:20:07 AM
Fultz may have a medical issue...fits right in with Philly.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Surferdad on June 17, 2017, 08:35:09 AM
Had a chance to sleep on this and I'm more mad than I was yesterday.

I'm hoping Danny comes to his senses and just picks Fultz.


i feel your pain .  All the rest of the GMs would take Fultz .   But we have the screwball who will try and get extra picks .  Throw away chance at the next Hardin . 

unless he is aiming to trade for a pair of stars to compete with Cavs and GS .  He should just take Fultz and wait out Lebron .

He loves too,many or his current players too.  Values them way too high.
Not really, I think most of that is posturing.  He traded Pierce, Garnett, Rondo and Perkins, 4/5 of a championship lineup.  I would not call that valuing his current players.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: number_n9ne on June 17, 2017, 08:35:09 AM
Watch Danny flip #1 for #3, 2018 Lakers and 2019 Kings. Then flip #3 for #5 and #10. Use #5 and 2018 Lakers to pick up Butler then take Dennis Smith at #10. Then come out and say some crap like "we got the guy at the top of our board at 10 and were able to collect more assets." And all we will end up content... Or close to it.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 17, 2017, 08:35:34 AM
Had a chance to sleep on this and I'm more mad than I was yesterday.

I'm hoping Danny comes to his senses and just picks Fultz.

This type of reaction sounds very similar to what happened in last years draft...

Give Danny the benefit of the doubt
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 17, 2017, 08:36:38 AM
Danny will keep multiplying these picks

Thank you Billy King
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: BlackCeltic on June 17, 2017, 08:41:28 AM
Had a chance to sleep on this and I'm more mad than I was yesterday.

I'm hoping Danny comes to his senses and just picks Fultz.

This type of reaction sounds very similar to what happened in last years draft...

Give Danny the benefit of the doubt


I hope you give Danny the same credit if he drafts and keeps Fultz.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: JOMVP on June 17, 2017, 08:45:44 AM
Had a chance to sleep on this and I'm more mad than I was yesterday.

I'm hoping Danny comes to his senses and just picks Fultz.

This type of reaction sounds very similar to what happened in last years draft...

Give Danny the benefit of the doubt

The difference is I LOVED Jaylen Brown and was ecstatic that Ainge took the chance on him rather than giving in to pressure and taking the "sure thing," in Dunn.

Fultz isn't a "sure thing," he is the only thing for us in this draft.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Dchuck on June 17, 2017, 08:45:53 AM
Danny will keep multiplying these picks

Thank you Billy King

Picks don't win anything!  At some point they have to turn into players so we can realistically compete.  Ainge is trying to be Belichick!
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: mrceltics2013 on June 17, 2017, 08:45:55 AM
Watch Danny flip #1 for #3, 2018 Lakers and 2019 Kings. Then flip #3 for #5 and #10. Use #5 and 2018 Lakers to pick up Butler then take Dennis Smith at #10. Then come out and say some crap like "we got the guy at the top of our board at 10 and were able to collect more assets." And all we will end up content... Or close to it.

This is 1000% unlikely. Mark my words, Danny WILL NOT draft 2 lottery picks no matter what this year. Danny WILL NOT trade drown just to draft another guard. What I will say is ive been looking at this Taytum guy and out of all the highlights I've seen from Ball, Fultz, and Jackson he is the only one I can actually see potential in. Hey question is do you want a Paul Pierce (Taytum) or James Harden Fultz). Although I don't really see the comparassion to James Harden like everyone else sees.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: BlackCeltic on June 17, 2017, 08:54:26 AM
Had a chance to sleep on this and I'm more mad than I was yesterday.

I'm hoping Danny comes to his senses and just picks Fultz.

This type of reaction sounds very similar to what happened in last years draft...

Give Danny the benefit of the doubt

The difference is I LOVED Jaylen Brown and was ecstatic that Ainge took the chance on him rather than giving in to pressure and taking the "sure thing," in Dunn.

Fultz isn't a "sure thing," he is the only thing for us in this draft.

I agree.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: jay on June 17, 2017, 08:54:51 AM
This has got to be centeed around getting both Hayward and Butler.  This deal makes it easier to get a max free agent, so maybe they have a good feeling on Hayward coming.

Also, now you have more assets to offer for Butler. Trade #3 pick plus Bradley/Crowder/Rozier  and a 2019 pick for Butler?

Left with a top 6 of IT, Horford, Hayward, Butler, Smart, Brown plus a ton of draft picks in 2018 and 2019.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Valid on June 17, 2017, 09:19:40 AM
Had a chance to sleep on this and I'm more mad than I was yesterday.

I'm hoping Danny comes to his senses and just picks Fultz.


i feel your pain .  All the rest of the GMs would take Fultz .   But we have the screwball who will try and get extra picks .  Throw away chance at the next Hardin . 

unless he is aiming to trade for a pair of stars to compete with Cavs and GS .  He should just take Fultz and wait out Lebron .

He loves too,many or his current players too.  Values them way too high.
LOL. Guy lands Ray Allen and KG in 2007, fleeces the Nets for three first-round picks when KG and Pierce were on their way to retirement, acquires Isaiah Thomas for next to nothing all while landing other assets and maintaining cap flexibility, but he is a "screwball."

Lol. Sure.

You also have no clue that "all of the rest of the GMs would take Fultz." Did you take a survey?

If Ainge is considering taking someone else, there is a reason for it. I think he knows a little bit more than you.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: number_n9ne on June 17, 2017, 09:36:34 AM
Watch Danny flip #1 for #3, 2018 Lakers and 2019 Kings. Then flip #3 for #5 and #10. Use #5 and 2018 Lakers to pick up Butler then take Dennis Smith at #10. Then come out and say some crap like "we got the guy at the top of our board at 10 and were able to collect more assets." And all we will end up content... Or close to it.

This is 1000% unlikely. Mark my words, Danny WILL NOT draft 2 lottery picks no matter what this year. Danny WILL NOT trade drown just to draft another guard. What I will say is ive been looking at this Taytum guy and out of all the highlights I've seen from Ball, Fultz, and Jackson he is the only one I can actually see potential in. Hey question is do you want a Paul Pierce (Taytum) or James Harden Fultz). Although I don't really see the comparassion to James Harden like everyone else sees.

Well I never said anything about drafting 2 lottery picks. But [dang], 1000% unlikely and you're marking your words? You must be the Ainge whisperer.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Bobshot on June 17, 2017, 09:46:52 AM
The tweets this morning are saying 1) Butler is Ainge's target for those multiple picks he gets from Philly-- 3 way deal "per league sources", and 2) Philly is getting Fox in today as well for a look.

The Philly deal isn't sealed yet, but it's looking like Ainge wants to parlay those picks into Butler.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Who on June 17, 2017, 09:47:04 AM
What if the Celtics make the trade and... the Lakers take Jackson at #2?  Because then we are screwed.

Fultz is off the board.  Jackson is off the board.

We can either draft a PG who has difficulty shooting midrange - Ball and whose dad's ego isn't a fit for Boston or we can select from the second tier of Tatum, Monk, Fox, etc.

It just seems very risky to make this trade when you needed the ping pong balls to bounce 'just right' to land #1 in this year's draft.

And what would the package be in return?

It had better be a Penny Hardaway level trade - ie #3 plus two-three unprotected #1 picks or it won't be worth it. 

Even then thinking of the Hardaway trade - did any good players come out of the future firsts outside of Penny himself?  I can't remember a single memorable selection.

I remember Keon Clark and Mike Miller.

Todd Fuller was the other one in 1996 where Orlando could have had Kobe, Peja Stojakovic, Nash or Jermaine O'Neal who all went in the next few picks.

Oh, turns out Keon Clark was from a 2nd deal. Orlando swapped their GSW pick with Washington and took Clark. Vince Carter was the pick they would've had although I think that was a trade with Jamison. That Toronto would have taken Vince one pick earlier if not for the trade. So Orlando would have got Jamison. Not Vince.

That could have been one hell of a haul. They could have had Kobe, Jamison, Mike Miller and Penny Hardaway for Chris Webber.

Instead, Orlando blew the two most valuable picks. Mike Miller the only valuable piece outside of Penny that they got.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Who on June 17, 2017, 09:49:48 AM
I don't want to give up this year's 1st and 2018 Brooklyn pick for Butler or George. This doesn't put us ahead the Warriors, even close, but we are trading our future to contend in a very hard period. This would be the worst possible move, in my opinion.

Agreed -- I am not giving up two top 5 picks for Butler or George. That is ridiculous. Huge overpay. They get one top 5 pick, a veteran and a lesser young asset like Rozier.

Two top 5 picks is worthy of an MVP caliber talent (like Anthony Davis).

Neither of those guys are that.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Sketch5 on June 17, 2017, 10:19:21 AM
Watch Danny flip #1 for #3, 2018 Lakers and 2019 Kings. Then flip #3 for #5 and #10. Use #5 and 2018 Lakers to pick up Butler then take Dennis Smith at #10. Then come out and say some crap like "we got the guy at the top of our board at 10 and were able to collect more assets." And all we will end up content... Or close to it.

This is 1000% unlikely. Mark my words, Danny WILL NOT draft 2 lottery picks no matter what this year. Danny WILL NOT trade drown just to draft another guard. What I will say is ive been looking at this Taytum guy and out of all the highlights I've seen from Ball, Fultz, and Jackson he is the only one I can actually see potential in. Hey question is do you want a Paul Pierce (Taytum) or James Harden Fultz). Although I don't really see the comparassion to James Harden like everyone else sees.

Were does he say DA is drafting two players? He's drafting Smith Jr and using the 5th pick on Butler. Smith is pretty underrated, can scoe and pass, plays good D, very athletic, and is a good leader. He's right up DA's ally.

That being said I don't think Butler is the first target. DA is swinging for AD. And don't say he's untouchable, NO is in trouble and right now would be the best shot getting the most for him and start a new rebuild.

NO is going to have a hard time getting FA's to play with AD and Boogie, who don't fit well. they have about 30 mill tied up in three crap players for the next four years. What FA are they going to bring in that helps except for one that might get payed well at the end of FA season. They could get luck with that, but what are the chances? They will be drafting in the middle for the next 4 years unless they get lucky. Too good to be in the top 5, not good enough to really compete in the playoffs. And Mini,PHX,POR,LAL and maybe even SAC(with this trade) can be better than them by the time AD's contract is done.

DA could send out 2017#5,37, 2018:LA's(from Philly) or 2019SAC(from Philly) with the rights to swap for the nets 2018 if better, 2019 LAC,MEPH Plus AB,Crowder,Johnson, Young Mickey.

All these picks have potential to be in the top 5 depending on if teams blow it up. Plus they'd be getting their own lotto picks at the same time to move up in the draft if they want to. They can cut bait with Boogie at the deadline for a 1st rounder and go tank mode.

All though I'd be okay with AB,Crowder,Johnson, 2017#5,37, 2018 LA, and Nets. But I'm greedy and one more pick to go with Brown and Smith to be in the starting line up with AD in a few years.

And yes it's a stretch, but DA at least has to try something like this. To get a 23 year old Big that can play D and shoot the 3, you go all in.

IT/Smith/Rozier
Brown/Smart
Hayward/Green or FA/Nader
Horford/Yabu
AD/Zizc

I'd put that up against the CAVS or Warriors with Stevens coaching.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: spikelovetheCelts on June 17, 2017, 10:48:17 AM
It sure will make for a more interesting draft now. I was hopeful Danny was going to tell Fultz you are my guy until you retire. All this noise will now hurt if we do pick him.  In my heart now I hope some blockbuster comes because of all this speculation.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: CelticsFan166 on June 17, 2017, 10:51:24 AM
I just don't see why Ainge wants more picks in next year's draft. Nobody in the top 5 is his type of player.

MPJ and Doncic can shoot, and have potential as more than just defensive role players.

Bamba and Ayton are tall and can grab rebounds.

Combine this with the fact that they're all considered elite prospects and I'm just not sure why Ainge wants a shot at any of them.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: hwangjini_1 on June 17, 2017, 11:17:08 AM
I just don't see why Ainge wants more picks in next year's draft. Nobody in the top 5 is his type of player.

MPJ and Doncic can shoot, and have potential as more than just defensive role players.

Bamba and Ayton are tall and can grab rebounds.

Combine this with the fact that they're all considered elite prospects and I'm just not sure why Ainge wants a shot at any of them.
perhaps for the same reasons he wanted zizic and yabusele?  ::)
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: OHCeltic on June 17, 2017, 11:35:52 AM
WWhatever Danny works out with the 76ers if he can get Holmes part of the trade would be like lighting the candle on a Bday cake
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: nickagneta on June 17, 2017, 11:37:15 AM
Things we don't know:

1. Just how good or bad Fultz' workout, interviews with people close to Fultz, overall talent evaluation went and medical checkup went. The Cs could have Fultz as a worse prospect than the Chad Fors and DraftExpresses of the world have him.

2.  If Ainge doesn't like this draft as a whole and wants to trade out of it. The CB draftniks keep saying this is an excellent draft but Ainge may not see it that way.

3.  Whether follow up deals are in place after Danny finishes the Fultz trade. Ainge's target has long been rumored to be Butller who is only 26 and on a very friendly contract for two years. Trading Bradley and salary, like Zeller on draft night, means Bradley's upcoming contract decision is removed and the max contract being given to a free agent comes one year after Horford. Then ITs max happens then the year after Butlers it makes possibly being in the luxury tax possible for just one year down the line because then Horford's max expires.

4.  Whether Ainge thinks next year's top of the draft is rated much higher and is more in line with what this team needs. He could be looking at two different chances at landing in the top 3 to take two generational bigs. This would make letting Horford go two years down the line palatable.

For these reasons, I have no problem with this move if its bringing back a star in Butler and a chance at two top threes next year. I have said numerous times I didn't think this draft was as good as most of the bloggers here or DE or Ford thought it was. Its not a Lebron, Melo, Wade, Bosh draft. It may not even be a draft where you can get a Wall, Cousins, George, Hayward draft and Ainge might see it just that way.

Or Ainge just loves Jackson and Ball and is okay with either.

We will see in 5 days.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: mctyson on June 17, 2017, 11:39:11 AM
Had a chance to sleep on this and I'm more mad than I was yesterday.

I'm hoping Danny comes to his senses and just picks Fultz.

This type of reaction sounds very similar to what happened in last years draft...

Give Danny the benefit of the doubt

The difference is I LOVED Jaylen Brown and was ecstatic that Ainge took the chance on him rather than giving in to pressure and taking the "sure thing," in Dunn.

Fultz isn't a "sure thing," he is the only thing for us in this draft.

Well it is actually interesting because people wanted Dunn so they could trade him to Philly for Okafor or Noel.  Think about that for a second.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: max215 on June 17, 2017, 11:41:28 AM
Had a chance to sleep on this and I'm more mad than I was yesterday.

I'm hoping Danny comes to his senses and just picks Fultz.

This type of reaction sounds very similar to what happened in last years draft...

Give Danny the benefit of the doubt

The difference is I LOVED Jaylen Brown and was ecstatic that Ainge took the chance on him rather than giving in to pressure and taking the "sure thing," in Dunn.

Fultz isn't a "sure thing," he is the only thing for us in this draft.

Well it is actually interesting because people wanted Dunn so they could trade him to Philly for Okafor or Noel.  Think about that for a second.

Not everyone :). I predicted and was happy with Jaylen Brown, the upside pick who had a legitimate claim as BPA.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: TheTruthFot18 on June 17, 2017, 11:47:23 AM
Had a chance to sleep on this and I'm more mad than I was yesterday.

I'm hoping Danny comes to his senses and just picks Fultz.

This type of reaction sounds very similar to what happened in last years draft...

Give Danny the benefit of the doubt

The difference is I LOVED Jaylen Brown and was ecstatic that Ainge took the chance on him rather than giving in to pressure and taking the "sure thing," in Dunn.

Fultz isn't a "sure thing," he is the only thing for us in this draft.

Well it is actually interesting because people wanted Dunn so they could trade him to Philly for Okafor or Noel.  Think about that for a second.

Thanks for the chuckle while I'm clenching my chest in anticipation of trading the #1 pick.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 17, 2017, 11:48:50 AM
Had a chance to sleep on this and I'm more mad than I was yesterday.

I'm hoping Danny comes to his senses and just picks Fultz.

This type of reaction sounds very similar to what happened in last years draft...

Give Danny the benefit of the doubt

The difference is I LOVED Jaylen Brown and was ecstatic that Ainge took the chance on him rather than giving in to pressure and taking the "sure thing," in Dunn.

Fultz isn't a "sure thing," he is the only thing for us in this draft.

Well it is actually interesting because people wanted Dunn so they could trade him to Philly for Okafor or Noel.  Think about that for a second.

Not everyone :). I predicted and was happy with Jaylen Brown, the upside pick who had a legitimate claim as BPA.

how you do stack up Jackson against Brown?
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: SHAQATTACK on June 17, 2017, 11:49:11 AM
e sun came up this morning .....

Danny is thinking like a sane man again ,  he wqs thinking mightly foolish thoughts.....take pills Danny .

Has called Fultz apologized

for temporarily insanity. 

I trust all is well once again.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: mctyson on June 17, 2017, 11:52:10 AM
Things we don't know:

1. Just how good or bad Fultz' workout, interviews with people close to Fultz, overall talent evaluation went and medical checkup went. The Cs could have Fultz as a worse prospect than the Chad Fors and DraftExpresses of the world have him.

2.  If Ainge doesn't like this draft as a whole and wants to trade out of it. The CB draftniks keep saying this is an excellent draft but Ainge may not see it that way.

3.  Whether follow up deals are in place after Danny finishes the Fultz trade. Ainge's target has long been rumored to be Butller who is only 26 and on a very friendly contract for two years. Trading Bradley and salary, like Zeller on draft night, means Bradley's upcoming contract decision is removed and the max contract being given to a free agent comes one year after Horford. Then ITs max happens then the year after Butlers it makes possibly being in the luxury tax possible for just one year down the line because then Horford's max expires.

4.  Whether Ainge thinks next year's top of the draft is rated much higher and is more in line with what this team needs. He could be looking at two different chances at landing in the top 3 to take two generational bigs. This would make letting Horford go two years down the line palatable.

For these reasons, I have no problem with this move if its bringing back a star in Butler and a chance at two top threes next year. I have said numerous times I didn't think this draft was as good as most of the bloggers here or DE or Ford thought it was. Its not a Lebron, Melo, Wade, Bosh draft. It may not even be a draft where you can get a Wall, Cousins, George, Hayward draft and Ainge might see it just that way.

Or Ainge just loves Jackson and Ball and is okay with either.

We will see in 5 days.

I think we know simply by the reporters that are involved (Woj, Lowe, Stein) that it is clear the #1 pick is available.  By extension, we then know that the Celtics do not think Fultz is a must-have top prospect.  There could be a lot of reasons for this, but my speculation is that there are other players who the Celtics like nearly as much.

I also think Philly has a lot to do with this.  I don't see how Lonzo Ball and Ben Simmons work together.  If LA is seriously considering Jackson at #2, then Philly has to trade up or reach on Fox.

Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: max215 on June 17, 2017, 11:53:05 AM
Had a chance to sleep on this and I'm more mad than I was yesterday.

I'm hoping Danny comes to his senses and just picks Fultz.

This type of reaction sounds very similar to what happened in last years draft...

Give Danny the benefit of the doubt

The difference is I LOVED Jaylen Brown and was ecstatic that Ainge took the chance on him rather than giving in to pressure and taking the "sure thing," in Dunn.

Fultz isn't a "sure thing," he is the only thing for us in this draft.

Well it is actually interesting because people wanted Dunn so they could trade him to Philly for Okafor or Noel.  Think about that for a second.

Not everyone :). I predicted and was happy with Jaylen Brown, the upside pick who had a legitimate claim as BPA.

how you do stack up Jackson against Brown?

I'd say Jackson is a better prospect than Brown. Comparable athletes, Jaylen's shot and frame are better, but Jackson's a better defender, passer, rebounder, and has a better motor. Jaylen also comes without the character concerns. Overall, they're comparable prospects, but I'd take Jackson.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: mctyson on June 17, 2017, 11:54:28 AM
Had a chance to sleep on this and I'm more mad than I was yesterday.

I'm hoping Danny comes to his senses and just picks Fultz.

This type of reaction sounds very similar to what happened in last years draft...

Give Danny the benefit of the doubt

The difference is I LOVED Jaylen Brown and was ecstatic that Ainge took the chance on him rather than giving in to pressure and taking the "sure thing," in Dunn.

Fultz isn't a "sure thing," he is the only thing for us in this draft.

Well it is actually interesting because people wanted Dunn so they could trade him to Philly for Okafor or Noel.  Think about that for a second.

Not everyone :). I predicted and was happy with Jaylen Brown, the upside pick who had a legitimate claim as BPA.

I was at the draft party at TD and was one of maybe 10 people who cheered the Jaylen pick...and everyone else booed hard. 
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: nickagneta on June 17, 2017, 11:57:26 AM
If this trade eventually yields us Butler, Porter(BKN 2018) and Ayton(LAL 2018) is it a good trade?
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: max215 on June 17, 2017, 11:57:49 AM
Had a chance to sleep on this and I'm more mad than I was yesterday.

I'm hoping Danny comes to his senses and just picks Fultz.

This type of reaction sounds very similar to what happened in last years draft...

Give Danny the benefit of the doubt

The difference is I LOVED Jaylen Brown and was ecstatic that Ainge took the chance on him rather than giving in to pressure and taking the "sure thing," in Dunn.

Fultz isn't a "sure thing," he is the only thing for us in this draft.

Well it is actually interesting because people wanted Dunn so they could trade him to Philly for Okafor or Noel.  Think about that for a second.

Not everyone :). I predicted and was happy with Jaylen Brown, the upside pick who had a legitimate claim as BPA.

I was at the draft party at TD and was one of maybe 10 people who cheered the Jaylen pick...and everyone else booed hard.

I still think the only reason he got booed was because people were expecting a Butler trade, not because they wanted Kris freaking Dunn, but that was definitely a low point for this fanbase.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: max215 on June 17, 2017, 12:00:49 PM
If this trade eventually yields us Butler, Porter(BKN 2018) and Ayton(LAL 2018) is it a good trade?

Flawed process, good result.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: mctyson on June 17, 2017, 12:02:17 PM
Had a chance to sleep on this and I'm more mad than I was yesterday.

I'm hoping Danny comes to his senses and just picks Fultz.

This type of reaction sounds very similar to what happened in last years draft...

Give Danny the benefit of the doubt

The difference is I LOVED Jaylen Brown and was ecstatic that Ainge took the chance on him rather than giving in to pressure and taking the "sure thing," in Dunn.

Fultz isn't a "sure thing," he is the only thing for us in this draft.

Well it is actually interesting because people wanted Dunn so they could trade him to Philly for Okafor or Noel.  Think about that for a second.

Not everyone :). I predicted and was happy with Jaylen Brown, the upside pick who had a legitimate claim as BPA.

I was at the draft party at TD and was one of maybe 10 people who cheered the Jaylen pick...and everyone else booed hard.

I still think the only reason he got booed was because people were expecting a Butler trade, not because they wanted Kris freaking Dunn, but that was definitely a low point for this fanbase.

The heavily rumored trade was Dunn to PHI for Okafor/Noel, and that lead to rumors of Okafor/Noel + 2017 BK pick for Butler.

Think about how badly that would have ended for us.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: TheTruthFot18 on June 17, 2017, 12:05:22 PM
If this trade eventually yields us Butler, Porter(BKN 2018) and Ayton(LAL 2018) is it a good trade?

This trade wouldn't net us Brooklyn 18, we already own it.

Why do we need to trade down to get Butler? Why didn't we just trade for him at the deadline.

I don't buy that Lakers AND Brooklyn will be top 3 picks again. It just doesn't seem possible three years in a row. LAL has too much talent now and have no incentive to suck for 2018 (no pick) as does Brooklyn. Even then, what are the odds we hit gold again? Not likely, we all know how the lottery simulator works and the team with the best odds is on a three year run, can't keep that up.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: mctyson on June 17, 2017, 12:09:17 PM
If this trade eventually yields us Butler, Porter(BKN 2018) and Ayton(LAL 2018) is it a good trade?

This trade wouldn't net us Brooklyn 18, we already own it.

Why do we need to trade down to get Butler? Why didn't we just trade for him at the deadline.

I don't buy that Lakers AND Brooklyn will be top 3 picks again. It just doesn't seem possible three years in a row. LAL has too much talent now and have no incentive to suck for 2018 (no pick) as does Brooklyn. Even then, what are the odds we hit gold again? Not likely, we all know how the lottery simulator works and the team with the best odds is on a three year run, can't keep that up.

Danny is not trading this pick to get more picks to trade for Butler.  But with more future unprotected possible top-10 picks in his hands the likelihood that one of them could be used to net Butler goes up.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: TheTruthFot18 on June 17, 2017, 12:13:22 PM
If this trade eventually yields us Butler, Porter(BKN 2018) and Ayton(LAL 2018) is it a good trade?

This trade wouldn't net us Brooklyn 18, we already own it.

Why do we need to trade down to get Butler? Why didn't we just trade for him at the deadline.

I don't buy that Lakers AND Brooklyn will be top 3 picks again. It just doesn't seem possible three years in a row. LAL has too much talent now and have no incentive to suck for 2018 (no pick) as does Brooklyn. Even then, what are the odds we hit gold again? Not likely, we all know how the lottery simulator works and the team with the best odds is on a three year run, can't keep that up.

Danny is not trading this pick to get more picks to trade for Butler.  But with more future unprotected possible top-10 picks in his hands the likelihood that one of them could be used to net Butler goes up.

I thought this Butler hype died at the deadline. Killing me that it came back.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: konkmv on June 17, 2017, 12:14:43 PM
If Danny trades down it will be for a haul of picks... Gs and LeBron will be around for a few more years...  The more good picks you have the better..  Smart Brown Jackson one of ayton or bamba or porter are not a bad core
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: nickagneta on June 17, 2017, 12:18:07 PM
If this trade eventually yields us Butler, Porter(BKN 2018) and Ayton(LAL 2018) is it a good trade?

This trade wouldn't net us Brooklyn 18, we already own it.

Why do we need to trade down to get Butler? Why didn't we just trade for him at the deadline.

I don't buy that Lakers AND Brooklyn will be top 3 picks again. It just doesn't seem possible three years in a row. LAL has too much talent now and have no incentive to suck for 2018 (no pick) as does Brooklyn. Even then, what are the odds we hit gold again? Not likely, we all know how the lottery simulator works and the team with the best odds is on a three year run, can't keep that up.
Sorry should have said if we eventually end up with not eventually yields.

Also, Brooklyn didn't have their pick this year and sucked. They and the Lakers will both suck again next year irregardless of not owning picks. Its very possible for the Cs to end up with 2 top 4 picks next year if we get the Lakers pick in this draft.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: mctyson on June 17, 2017, 12:19:36 PM
If this trade eventually yields us Butler, Porter(BKN 2018) and Ayton(LAL 2018) is it a good trade?

This trade wouldn't net us Brooklyn 18, we already own it.

Why do we need to trade down to get Butler? Why didn't we just trade for him at the deadline.

I don't buy that Lakers AND Brooklyn will be top 3 picks again. It just doesn't seem possible three years in a row. LAL has too much talent now and have no incentive to suck for 2018 (no pick) as does Brooklyn. Even then, what are the odds we hit gold again? Not likely, we all know how the lottery simulator works and the team with the best odds is on a three year run, can't keep that up.

Danny is not trading this pick to get more picks to trade for Butler.  But with more future unprotected possible top-10 picks in his hands the likelihood that one of them could be used to net Butler goes up.

I thought this Butler hype died at the deadline. Killing me that it came back.

The one reason it will keep coming back is that his contract is actually really good now considering the cap spike.  He has 2 years @ ~17M with a player option.  Basically Evan Turner's deal.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: max215 on June 17, 2017, 12:20:06 PM
If Danny trades down it will be for a haul of picks... Gs and LeBron will be around for a few more years...  The more good picks you have the better..  Smart Brown Jackson one of ayton or bamba or porter are not a bad core

No, in the NBA quality always exceeds quantity. You know why teams don't try to assemble rosters of 15 good players? Because 4 great ones will wax the floor with them.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: mobilija on June 17, 2017, 12:27:10 PM
More good picks is different than more good players. You are correct that a top player beats several good players but more high picks equals more swings of the bat in the crap shoot that is the NBA draft, giving you a better chance at one of those elite players.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: max215 on June 17, 2017, 12:29:39 PM
More good picks is different than more good players. You are correct that a top player beats several good players but more high picks equals more swings of the bat in the crap shoot that is the NBA draft, giving you a better chance at one of those elite players.

The #1 overall pick is not a crapshoot.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Billz401 on June 17, 2017, 12:32:37 PM
Had a chance to sleep on this and I'm more mad than I was yesterday.

I'm hoping Danny comes to his senses and just picks Fultz.

This type of reaction sounds very similar to what happened in last years draft...

Give Danny the benefit of the doubt

The difference is I LOVED Jaylen Brown and was ecstatic that Ainge took the chance on him rather than giving in to pressure and taking the "sure thing," in Dunn.

Fultz isn't a "sure thing," he is the only thing for us in this draft.

Well it is actually interesting because people wanted Dunn so they could trade him to Philly for Okafor or Noel.  Think about that for a second.

Not everyone :). I predicted and was happy with Jaylen Brown, the upside pick who had a legitimate claim as BPA.

I was at the draft party at TD and was one of maybe 10 people who cheered the Jaylen pick...and everyone else booed hard.

I still think the only reason he got booed was because people were expecting a Butler trade, not because they wanted Kris freaking Dunn, but that was definitely a low point for this fanbase.

The heavily rumored trade was Dunn to PHI for Okafor/Noel, and that lead to rumors of Okafor/Noel + 2017 BK pick for Butler.

Think about how badly that would have ended for us.
I was one of the people big on Dunn but it was more because of being a huge PC fan. I thought shoot if Celtics can grab the hometown kid and I can continue watching my favorite player in the ncaa on my favorite nba team it was a no brainer. But I'm also not the GM and thank God I'm not because I think jaylen is easily the better prospect now
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Eddie20 on June 17, 2017, 12:36:36 PM
More good picks is different than more good players. You are correct that a top player beats several good players but more high picks equals more swings of the bat in the crap shoot that is the NBA draft, giving you a better chance at one of those elite players.

The #1 overall pick is not a crapshoot.

Roughly 20 years of #1 picks. Some all-stars. Some HOF's. Some mild disappointments. Some complete busts. So, yeah, it's always a crapshoot.

Olowokandi
Brand
Kenyon Martin
Kwame Brown
Yao
LeBron
Howard
Bogut
Bargnani
Oden
Rose
Blake Griffin
Wall
Irving
Davis
Bennett
Wiggins
Simmons
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Jarrin John on June 17, 2017, 12:57:20 PM
Top 3 win shares players per draft (position chosen), 2000 - 2009:

2000: 16, 5, 8;
2001: 3. 28, 2;
2002: 9, 34, 7;
2003: 1, 5, 4;
2004: 1, 9, 7;
2005: 4, 3, 30;
2006: 2, 47, 24;
2007: 2, 3, 48;
2008: 4, 5, 35;
2009: 3, 7, 1.

I chose this decade -- recent but not too recent -- to stay contemporary, but while realizing the most recent drafts have many careers yet to fully play out. There are several active players in these listed drafts, but the overall impression shouldn't be much distorted by them. The hierarchy has mostly been established.

Interesting to note: the #1 overall pick appears only 3 times out of these 30 positions (Lebron, Dwight Howard, Blake Griffin). Maybe #1 pick is NOT a slam dunk no-brainer choice?

Discuss:
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 17, 2017, 12:59:51 PM
fresh out of the oven..

Quote
Keith Pompey: Word out of Boston is that #Sixers and #Cetlics may come to an agreement but trade won’t be done until draft night. – via

Quote
Mark Murphy: Source close to Fultz says he is expected to work out for Philadelphia “sometime today.” – via Twitter Murf56
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: KGs Knee on June 17, 2017, 01:01:11 PM
More good picks is different than more good players. You are correct that a top player beats several good players but more high picks equals more swings of the bat in the crap shoot that is the NBA draft, giving you a better chance at one of those elite players.

The #1 overall pick is not a crapshoot.

This is obviously not true at all, as Eddie20 points out.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 17, 2017, 01:01:32 PM
Quote
Keith Pompey: Word out of Boston is that #Sixers and #Cetlics may come to an agreement but trade won’t be done until draft night. – via

I hope its before the 1st pick is announced....awkward otherwise

but this is the right move. safety net...in case either fultz or jackson sustain an injury prior to the draft
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: hpantazo on June 17, 2017, 01:04:30 PM
So no new info on what the return from Phili is or if we are packaging anything for Butler or PG3?
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Kuberski33 on June 17, 2017, 01:05:51 PM
The more I follow this the more I'm just about certain that if Danny does deal #1, it won't be to the Sixers.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PAOBoston on June 17, 2017, 01:07:11 PM
Quote
Keith Pompey: Word out of Boston is that #Sixers and #Cetlics may come to an agreement but trade won’t be done until draft night. – via

I hope its before the 1st pick is announced....awkward otherwise

but this is the right move. safety net...in case either fultz or jackson sustain an injury prior to the draft
More likely that Ainge wants to see who goes #2 to the Lakers. I think Ainge has narrowed it down to Fultz and Jackson. Ainge is going to draft Fultz at 1. If Lakers draft Jackson instead of Ball, he's keeping Fultz. If Lakers select Ball, C's make trade with 76ers to take Jackson plus picks/players/etc.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: max215 on June 17, 2017, 01:08:24 PM
More good picks is different than more good players. You are correct that a top player beats several good players but more high picks equals more swings of the bat in the crap shoot that is the NBA draft, giving you a better chance at one of those elite players.

The #1 overall pick is not a crapshoot.

This is obviously not true at all, as Eddie20 points out.

It's not a certainty, but it's not a crapshoot to the extent of the rest of the draft. More often than not, especially when there's a consensus #1, the #1 ends up being successful.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: jambr380 on June 17, 2017, 01:08:32 PM
Quote
Keith Pompey: Word out of Boston is that #Sixers and #Cetlics may come to an agreement but trade won’t be done until draft night. – via

I hope its before the 1st pick is announced....awkward otherwise

but this is the right move. safety net...in case either fultz or jackson sustain an injury prior to the draft

Get ready for it to be awkward.

If Danny likes Jackson (and only Jackson), he will have to wait until after the Lakers pick before making the reported trade.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Boris Badenov on June 17, 2017, 01:12:11 PM
How does LA play into all of this? They must understand that they have a lot of leverage.

I'm starting to wonder whether Danny wants Tatum or someone else not in the consensus top 3. Or the team we are moving the pick to must want someone like that.

Oh the irony if the guy he has his eye on is Fox.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: jakeopp on June 17, 2017, 01:13:57 PM
Top 3 win shares players per draft (position chosen), 2000 - 2009:

2000: 16, 5, 8;
2001: 3. 28, 2;
2002: 9, 34, 7;
2003: 1, 5, 4;
2004: 1, 9, 7;
2005: 4, 3, 30;
2006: 2, 47, 24;
2007: 2, 3, 48;
2008: 4, 5, 35;
2009: 3, 7, 1.

I chose this decade -- recent but not too recent -- to stay contemporary, but while realizing the most recent drafts have many careers yet to fully play out. There are several active players in these listed drafts, but the overall impression shouldn't be much distorted by them. The hierarchy has mostly been established.

Interesting to note: the #1 overall pick appears only 3 times out of these 30 positions (Lebron, Dwight Howard, Blake Griffin). Maybe #1 pick is NOT a slam dunk no-brainer choice?

Discuss:

2008 was Derrick Rose, an MVP caliber player before injury.

2007 was Oden, career also ruined by injury.

2006 was Bargnani, bust

2005 was Bogut, obviously didn't live up to #1 pick potential


2002 was Yao, career hurt by injury but an 8x all-star.

2001 was Kwame, bust

2000 was Kenyon Martin, not a bad player but definitely didn't love up to #1 pick potential.

Win shares definitely don't tell the whole story here. Also, were these 10 #1 picks all the consensus #1 pick or were some guys taken "out of order"?
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: KGs Knee on June 17, 2017, 01:17:36 PM
I will say, while it is my opinion Fultz is the best prospect in this draft, and this opinion is clearly shared by most of the internet, it doesn't necessarily make it true.

If Ainge feels differently, you have to trust his judgment. Ainge knows more than any poster on this forum, draftexpress, or any other so-called draft expert (i.e. the Chad Ford's of the world).

But my hope would be we could flip some of the picks gained from trading down for Paul George or Jimmy Butler (preference on George). If Ainge walks away with George/Butler and the 2019 Sac #1, well I think you have to do that type of deal 10 out of 10 times.

But for all the hubbub yesterday, it appears whatever was really being discussed has cooled a bit. That's the Internet for ya.....
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 17, 2017, 01:18:30 PM
Nbadrafts latest take as to how Lakers taking Ball ties in with 76ers- celtics trade

Why the Lakers take Lonzo Ball: The Lakers taking Ball is said to be close to a done deal, meaning that the Jackson interest was likely a smoke screen to try to get Ainge and the Celtics to stand pat and select Jackson, allowing Fultz to fall to them at 2. Ball gives the Lakers a perfect set up guy to pair with DeAngelo Russell. The Lakers could still take a hard look at Jackson, but word is that Ball at their pick is close to a lock now. the Lakers will have more options to pursue wing players like Paul George without Jackson.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: chiken Green on June 17, 2017, 01:41:25 PM
More good picks is different than more good players. You are correct that a top player beats several good players but more high picks equals more swings of the bat in the crap shoot that is the NBA draft, giving you a better chance at one of those elite players.

The #1 overall pick is not a crapshoot.

Roughly 20 years of #1 picks. Some all-stars. Some HOF's. Some mild disappointments. Some complete busts. So, yeah, it's always a crapshoot.

Olowokandi
Brand
Kenyon Martin
Kwame Brown
Yao
LeBron
Howard
Bogut
Bargnani
Oden
Rose
Blake Griffin
Wall
Irving
Davis
Bennett
Wiggins
Simmons

Take this list and pull out the Guards and then tell us what you think. How many of the guards failed?
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: nickagneta on June 17, 2017, 01:42:57 PM
Nbadrafts latest take as to how Lakers taking Ball ties in with 76ers- celtics trade

Why the Lakers take Lonzo Ball: The Lakers taking Ball is said to be close to a done deal, meaning that the Jackson interest was likely a smoke screen to try to get Ainge and the Celtics to stand pat and select Jackson, allowing Fultz to fall to them at 2. Ball gives the Lakers a perfect set up guy to pair with DeAngelo Russell. The Lakers could still take a hard look at Jackson, but word is that Ball at their pick is close to a lock now. the Lakers will have more options to pursue wing players like Paul George without Jackson.
So Lakers roll out a starting five of Ball/Russell/Ingram/Randal/Mosgov?

Danny better be getting the Lakers 2018 in this trade because the Lakers are going to suck with that starting lineup. It has potential for the future but in the here and now they will be awful
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: celticinorlando on June 17, 2017, 01:43:06 PM
I think Danny just likes collecting picks. Doesn't trade them...Doesn't even use them to pick players. Just keeps collecting them
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PAOBoston on June 17, 2017, 01:45:58 PM
Quote
Adrian Wojnarowski‏Verified account @WojVerticalNBA 14m14 minutes ago

Sources: The plan's for Markelle Fultz's visit to Philadelphia today to clear way toward finalizing a deal with Boston for No. 1 pick.

Quote
Adrian Wojnarowski‏Verified account @WojVerticalNBA 13m13 minutes ago

Adrian Wojnarowski Retweeted Adrian Wojnarowski

Discussions have centered on Sixers sending 2017 No. 3, 2018 Lakers pick, and possibly 2021 1st -- including complicated protections.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Dino Pitino on June 17, 2017, 01:56:20 PM
Quote
Ainge is trying to be Belichick!

Can't believe someone typed that negatively.  ???
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Boris Badenov on June 17, 2017, 02:02:06 PM
Quote
Ainge is trying to be Belichick!

Can't believe someone typed that negatively.  ???

It's negative in basketball, where having a top-3 superstar is necessary to win a championship. Belichick's strategy works perfectly in football where top-to-bottom roster depth is a key.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Boris Badenov on June 17, 2017, 02:06:47 PM
Quote
Adrian Wojnarowski‏Verified account @WojVerticalNBA 14m14 minutes ago

Sources: The plan's for Markelle Fultz's visit to Philadelphia today to clear way toward finalizing a deal with Boston for No. 1 pick.

Quote
Adrian Wojnarowski‏Verified account @WojVerticalNBA 13m13 minutes ago

Adrian Wojnarowski Retweeted Adrian Wojnarowski

Discussions have centered on Sixers sending 2017 No. 3, 2018 Lakers pick, and possibly 2021 1st -- including complicated protections.

"Complicated protections" scare me.

And in any event let's suppose we get the 2018 Lakers pick and they end up winning 29 games and get the 6th lottery slot, then drop to 8th on draft day.

We flip the #3 and the other pick for Butler.

Is the #1 for Butler and a 2018 mid-lottery pick worth it?

I mean, we could've had him at the deadline this year, supposedly, except for the fact that we wanted #1 protection on it. Now we have the #1 and we go for something that's pretty similar?

I just get the feeling there's something fundamental about all this I'm missing, in terms of what Danny's up to. I guess we will have to wait until draft night.

Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Bobshot on June 17, 2017, 02:06:53 PM
Screw this deal unless those picks can be parlayed into a Butler. They need more than the #3 and next year's first round pick, which could be anywhere.

Do people realize how hard it is to get to #1 overall in the lottery?  It's strictly a dice roll.

Ainge has got to stop collecting draft picks, and then doing nothing with them.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: CelticsElite on June 17, 2017, 02:08:38 PM
Quote
Ainge is trying to be Belichick!

Can't believe someone typed that negatively.  ???

It's negative in basketball, where having a top-3 superstar is necessary to win a championship. Belichick's strategy works perfectly in football where top-to-bottom roster depth is a key.
exactly the NFL draft is super deep. It's 3 days long. Whereas the NBA draft is top heavy if it's heavy at all. Some NBA drafts have only 1 good player.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: CelticsElite on June 17, 2017, 02:10:00 PM
Screw this deal unless those picks can be parlayed into a Butler. They need more than the #3 and next year's first round pick, which could be anywhere.

Do people realize how hard it is to get to #1 overall in the lottery?  It's strictly a dice roll.

Ainge has got to stop collecting draft picks, and then doing nothing with them.
exactly we have too many picks.  We literally had 8 picks in last years draft where Danny was forced to stash in the first for salary reasons
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: colincb on June 17, 2017, 02:13:29 PM
Do not believe the rumor of a deal for Butler. It would have to be a Godfather offer to move the Bulls from their focus of generating revenue from a long string of sell-outs. They do not rebuild to chase championship. Never have. Besides, Danny likes to win trades.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Dino Pitino on June 17, 2017, 03:25:20 PM
Quote
Ainge is trying to be Belichick!

Can't believe someone typed that negatively.  ???

It's negative in basketball, where having a top-3 superstar is necessary to win a championship. Belichick's strategy works perfectly in football where top-to-bottom roster depth is a key.
exactly the NFL draft is super deep. It's 3 days long. Whereas the NBA draft is top heavy if it's heavy at all. Some NBA drafts have only 1 good player.

You guys are taking "trying to be Belichick" too literally. If he sees very little difference in value between the #1 and #3 pick and squeezes an extra lotto pick next year out of it, that's being Belichick, too. The basketball version. Doesn't have to be him trading a 1st rounder for three future seconds for the analogy to work.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PaulP34 on June 17, 2017, 03:45:26 PM
Giving up a decade of Fultz for 1 year of PG13 or 2 years of Butler is a moronic move. Just shows how impatient Ainge can be. We should be in no rush but unfortunately with the Al Horford signing and failing to aquire this years NBA Finals MVP he created a win now philosophy. Signing Horford ruined the future of this team and organization. SMH
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: RJ87 on June 17, 2017, 03:49:51 PM
I think Danny just likes collecting picks. Doesn't trade them...Doesn't even use them to pick players. Just keeps collecting them

Pretty much.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: hwangjini_1 on June 17, 2017, 04:14:42 PM
Screw this deal unless those picks can be parlayed into a Butler. They need more than the #3 and next year's first round pick, which could be anywhere.

Do people realize how hard it is to get to #1 overall in the lottery?  It's strictly a dice roll.

Ainge has got to stop collecting draft picks, and then doing nothing with them.
When did ainge "do nothing" with a apick? This makes no sense since ainge does actually use the pick  to pick players. And just last year he made a trade of a high second rounder.

Before, Aingewais a genius for getting picks, now he is a dunce for getting picks.

The negative nellies here need to get a grip. Ainge knows better than we do.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: hwangjini_1 on June 17, 2017, 04:17:10 PM
Giving up a decade of Fultz for 1 year of PG13 or 2 years of Butler is a moronic move. Just shows how impatient Ainge can be. We should be in no rush but unfortunately with the Al Horford signing and failing to aquire this years NBA Finals MVP he created a win now philosophy. Signing Horford ruined the future of this team and organization. SMH
Did ainge actually do this? How does him not doing that show impatience? Your conjecture is not reality and may never be.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: footey on June 17, 2017, 04:21:24 PM
Nbadrafts latest take as to how Lakers taking Ball ties in with 76ers- celtics trade

Why the Lakers take Lonzo Ball: The Lakers taking Ball is said to be close to a done deal, meaning that the Jackson interest was likely a smoke screen to try to get Ainge and the Celtics to stand pat and select Jackson, allowing Fultz to fall to them at 2. Ball gives the Lakers a perfect set up guy to pair with DeAngelo Russell. The Lakers could still take a hard look at Jackson, but word is that Ball at their pick is close to a lock now. the Lakers will have more options to pursue wing players like Paul George without Jackson.
So Lakers roll out a starting five of Ball/Russell/Ingram/Randal/Mosgov?

Danny better be getting the Lakers 2018 in this trade because the Lakers are going to suck with that starting lineup. It has potential for the future but in the here and now they will be awful

I disagree. I think they will improve a lot next year with Ball. Which is why the Laker pick doesn't excite me much. I'd rather have the King pick even though it's a year later.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Dino Pitino on June 17, 2017, 04:23:08 PM
Quote
The negative nellies here need to get a grip. Ainge knows better than we do.

THIS^^^^^^^
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: nickagneta on June 17, 2017, 04:23:17 PM
Quote
Adrian Wojnarowski‏Verified account @WojVerticalNBA 14m14 minutes ago

Sources: The plan's for Markelle Fultz's visit to Philadelphia today to clear way toward finalizing a deal with Boston for No. 1 pick.

Quote
Adrian Wojnarowski‏Verified account @WojVerticalNBA 13m13 minutes ago

Adrian Wojnarowski Retweeted Adrian Wojnarowski

Discussions have centered on Sixers sending 2017 No. 3, 2018 Lakers pick, and possibly 2021 1st -- including complicated protections.

"Complicated protections" scare me.

And in any event let's suppose we get the 2018 Lakers pick and they end up winning 29 games and get the 6th lottery slot, then drop to 8th on draft day.

We flip the #3 and the other pick for Butler.

Is the #1 for Butler and a 2018 mid-lottery pick worth it?

I mean, we could've had him at the deadline this year, supposedly, except for the fact that we wanted #1 protection on it. Now we have the #1 and we go for something that's pretty similar?

I just get the feeling there's something fundamental about all this I'm missing, in terms of what Danny's up to. I guess we will have to wait until draft night.
I think you might be over estimating the Lakers win total next year, though I can understand that might be wirse case scenario.

IMO, replacing Lou Williams 19 PPG with rookie Ball will be tough. I see the Lakers with about 22-24 wins if the are running out Ball, Russell, Ingram, Randall, Mosgov every night. Too much youth to win regularly.

22-24 wins probably makes you a top 4 worse team with an excellent shot at top three and number one again. I could see Boston with two top three picks next year.

Can you imagine the Nets and Lakers having season long threads on the blog? Next year we could be a Finals team with two top three picks. Of course, thats best case scenario.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: footey on June 17, 2017, 04:25:09 PM
Quote
Keith Pompey: Word out of Boston is that #Sixers and #Cetlics may come to an agreement but trade won’t be done until draft night. – via

I hope its before the 1st pick is announced....awkward otherwise

but this is the right move. safety net...in case either fultz or jackson sustain an injury prior to the draft

Or if Lakers take Jackson.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Roy H. on June 17, 2017, 04:29:17 PM
Quote
The negative nellies here need to get a grip. Ainge knows better than we do.

THIS^^^^^^^

He has more knowledge and information.

That doesn't mean he's always right.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: SHAQATTACK on June 17, 2017, 04:32:46 PM
Quote
The negative nellies here need to get a grip. Ainge knows better than we do.

THIS^^^^^^^

He has more knowledge and information.

That doesn't mean he's always right.


TP !
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: bogg on June 17, 2017, 04:35:28 PM
Giving up a decade of Fultz for 1 year of PG13 or 2 years of Butler is a moronic move. Just shows how impatient Ainge can be. We should be in no rush but unfortunately with the Al Horford signing and failing to aquire this years NBA Finals MVP he created a win now philosophy. Signing Horford ruined the future of this team and organization. SMH

This, at least, makes no sense. Horford was signed with straight cap space - it did nothing to hinder any ability to build for the future. There's absolutely no reason that signing Horford prevents the team from continuing to draft and develop youth.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: jpotter33 on June 17, 2017, 04:35:49 PM
Quote
The negative nellies here need to get a grip. Ainge knows better than we do.

THIS^^^^^^^

He has more knowledge and information.

That doesn't mean he's always right.

I'll never understand the apologism/pseudo-fatalism that surrounds Danny and Brad at times here on the blog.

Yes, they most likely know much more than us when it comes to this stuff. But they're also humans with flaws and biases just like the rest of us. They can still make a major mistake when many with less knowledge actually get it right.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: dreamgreen on June 17, 2017, 04:37:57 PM
Quote
The negative nellies here need to get a grip. Ainge knows better than we do.

THIS^^^^^^^

He has more knowledge and information.

That doesn't mean he's always right.

I have a lot of trust in Danny and nobody is perfect. If this deal goes down than we will see who he drafts. If he continues with players that are defenders that can't shoot I think it's fair to say we have a problem in the Celtics front office.

60% of #1 picks go on to be all stars
34%? of players 2-5 I believe go on to be all stars
goes down to 17% after that

So taking yourself out of the top spot just cut your chances in half!
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Sketch5 on June 17, 2017, 04:39:27 PM
Screw this deal unless those picks can be parlayed into a Butler. They need more than the #3 and next year's first round pick, which could be anywhere.

Do people realize how hard it is to get to #1 overall in the lottery?  It's strictly a dice roll.

Ainge has got to stop collecting draft picks, and then doing nothing with them.
When did ainge "do nothing" with a apick? This makes no sense since ainge does actually use the pick  to pick players. And just last year he made a trade of a high second rounder.

Before, Aingewais a genius for getting picks, now he is a dunce for getting picks.

The negative nellies here need to get a grip. Ainge knows better than we do.


Stop with the making of the sense!


Whats funny is people are flipping out about a kid who doesn't shoot lights out from the 3(but got better as the year went on) but can get to the hoop and flays really good D, for a guy who is going to be 28 who doesn't shoot lights out from the 3pt line but gets to the hoop and plays really good D.

Yeah Butler dose shoot better from the , and yeah Jackson has some off the court issues, but Butler had some locker room issues.

I'd be fine with Butler, if that means Hayward is also coming. Thats a lot of fire power the C's would get. But no way Does CHI get more than #3 and AB and filler. He's not work the 2018 Nets pick as well.

What I'd love to see.

DA flips the # 3 and AB for Hayward,(if possible not sure how all works with player options). Then we could have possible enough for Griffin as well(might have to take a paycut). He could do what KD is doing with GSW,
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Rondo9 on June 17, 2017, 04:40:46 PM
Quote
The negative nellies here need to get a grip. Ainge knows better than we do.

THIS^^^^^^^

He has more knowledge and information.

That doesn't mean he's always right.

I'll never understand the apologism/pseudo-fatalism that surrounds Danny and Brad at times here on the blog.

Yes, they most likely know much more than us when it comes to this stuff. But they're also humans with flaws and biases just like the rest of us. They can still make a major mistake when many with less knowledge actually get it right.

I'll never understand the negativity that surrounds Danny and Brad in this Blog at times. It's either that Danny think Fultz is the player or that he has a trade lined up.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 17, 2017, 04:43:25 PM
Quote
The negative nellies here need to get a grip. Ainge knows better than we do.

THIS^^^^^^^

He has more knowledge and information.

That doesn't mean he's always right.

The way he orchestraded the big 3 then traded them just at the right time to fleece the Nets...

He is a genius...deserves the benefit of the doubt
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Neurotic Guy on June 17, 2017, 04:45:13 PM
Quote
The negative nellies here need to get a grip. Ainge knows better than we do.

THIS^^^^^^^

He has more knowledge and information.

That doesn't mean he's always right.

I'll never understand the apologism/pseudo-fatalism that surrounds Danny and Brad at times here on the blog.

Yes, they most likely know much more than us when it comes to this stuff. But they're also humans with flaws and biases just like the rest of us. They can still make a major mistake when many with less knowledge actually get it right.

The point for me is that once DA and CBS make a move, I have to rest on the assumption that their judgment is better than mine.  I don't want a Butler trade that costs the #3 and either the LAL or Nets '17.   Too much forfeit of the future for a good but not great player, IMO.  But they want to win championships and they see things and know things I don't, so ultimately I'll trust that it's the right move.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on June 17, 2017, 04:55:22 PM
Keith Pompey from Philly Inquirer:

Quote
More
#Lakers can screws things up by drafting Josh Jackson. That's why word out of Boston is #Celtics want to wait until draft night.



https://twitter.com/PompeyOnSixers/status/876102050857275394

I hope this is what we do. Draft Markelle Fultz at #1 and wait. It's senseless to do the trade now when there's a risk on missing out on both Fultz and Josh Jackson. In any scenarios after this, our worst case is we end up with Fultz.

This has to be the deal.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 17, 2017, 04:58:52 PM
Keith Pompey from Philly Inquirer:

Quote
More
#Lakers can screws things up by drafting Josh Jackson. That's why word out of Boston is #Celtics want to wait until draft night.



https://twitter.com/PompeyOnSixers/status/876102050857275394

I hope this is what we do. Draft Markelle Fultz at #1 and wait. It's senseless to do the trade now when there's a risk on missing out on both Fultz and Josh Jackson. In any scenarios after this, our worst case is we end up with Fultz.

This has to be the deal.

If this is true...Celtics set on Jackson... Dont want Ball or anybody else
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on June 17, 2017, 05:01:22 PM
Keith Pompey from Philly Inquirer:

Quote
More
#Lakers can screws things up by drafting Josh Jackson. That's why word out of Boston is #Celtics want to wait until draft night.



https://twitter.com/PompeyOnSixers/status/876102050857275394

I hope this is what we do. Draft Markelle Fultz at #1 and wait. It's senseless to do the trade now when there's a risk on missing out on both Fultz and Josh Jackson. In any scenarios after this, our worst case is we end up with Fultz.

This has to be the deal.

If this is true...Celtics set on Jackson... Dont want Ball

Regardless, we need certainties that we don't miss out on who we want. Either it's Fultz or Jackson, Fultz HAS to be picked first, and we have to hold on to him until Jackson gets picked by Philly. If Jackson is indeed who we want, the deal is on. If not, we keep Fultz.

Of course, all this is going to be thrown away if the #3 will be moved for Jimmy Butler. I trust that Ainge has this deal locked in first before he does the move. But again, that's way too uncertain.

Our best, safest thing to do really is to pick Markelle Fultz at #1. Any trade he wants to do can happen by then, but we have to pick Fultz.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: hpantazo on June 17, 2017, 05:09:21 PM
I gotta say, watching more footage of Josh Jackson, he's quite impressive. I can see him being better than Fultz long term with the right coach. He looks like a better version of Jaylen Brown. Having Jaylen, Jackson, and Smart would reek havoc on all NBA teams on both ends of the floor. So much athleticism and intensity.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: hpantazo on June 17, 2017, 05:10:18 PM
Keith Pompey from Philly Inquirer:

Quote
More
#Lakers can screws things up by drafting Josh Jackson. That's why word out of Boston is #Celtics want to wait until draft night.



https://twitter.com/PompeyOnSixers/status/876102050857275394

I hope this is what we do. Draft Markelle Fultz at #1 and wait. It's senseless to do the trade now when there's a risk on missing out on both Fultz and Josh Jackson. In any scenarios after this, our worst case is we end up with Fultz.

This has to be the deal.

If this is true...Celtics set on Jackson... Dont want Ball or anybody else

If they are set on Jackson, what do they do if they take Fultz at #1 and then LA takes Jackson? I suppose Ainge could work out a trade with LA then if they really love Fultz.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 17, 2017, 05:10:44 PM
Keith Pompey from Philly Inquirer:

Quote
More
#Lakers can screws things up by drafting Josh Jackson. That's why word out of Boston is #Celtics want to wait until draft night.



https://twitter.com/PompeyOnSixers/status/876102050857275394

I hope this is what we do. Draft Markelle Fultz at #1 and wait. It's senseless to do the trade now when there's a risk on missing out on both Fultz and Josh Jackson. In any scenarios after this, our worst case is we end up with Fultz.

This has to be the deal.

If this is true...Celtics set on Jackson... Dont want Ball

Regardless, we need certainties that we don't miss out on who we want. Either it's Fultz or Jackson, Fultz HAS to be picked first, and we have to hold on to him until Jackson gets picked by Philly. If Jackson is indeed who we want, the deal is on. If not, we keep Fultz.

Of course, all this is going to be thrown away if the #3 will be moved for Jimmy Butler. I trust that Ainge has this deal locked in first before he does the move. But again, that's way too uncertain.

Our best, safest thing to do really is to pick Markelle Fultz at #1. Any trade he wants to do can happen by then, but we have to pick Fultz.

Maybe the Lakers want in , on some of this action

they tell the 76ers , if you really want Fultz.... send us something in return too

Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: CelticsElite on June 17, 2017, 05:11:40 PM
Keith Pompey from Philly Inquirer:

Quote
More
#Lakers can screws things up by drafting Josh Jackson. That's why word out of Boston is #Celtics want to wait until draft night.



https://twitter.com/PompeyOnSixers/status/876102050857275394

I hope this is what we do. Draft Markelle Fultz at #1 and wait. It's senseless to do the trade now when there's a risk on missing out on both Fultz and Josh Jackson. In any scenarios after this, our worst case is we end up with Fultz.

This has to be the deal.

If this is true...Celtics set on Jackson... Dont want Ball or anybody else

If they are set on Jackson, what do they do if they take Fultz at #1 and then LA takes Jackson? I suppose Ainge could work out a trade with LA then if they really love Fultz.
they probably re work a new deal or stay with fultz
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 17, 2017, 05:13:29 PM
Keith Pompey from Philly Inquirer:

Quote
More
#Lakers can screws things up by drafting Josh Jackson. That's why word out of Boston is #Celtics want to wait until draft night.



https://twitter.com/PompeyOnSixers/status/876102050857275394

I hope this is what we do. Draft Markelle Fultz at #1 and wait. It's senseless to do the trade now when there's a risk on missing out on both Fultz and Josh Jackson. In any scenarios after this, our worst case is we end up with Fultz.

This has to be the deal.

If this is true...Celtics set on Jackson... Dont want Ball or anybody else

If they are set on Jackson, what do they do if they take Fultz at #1 and then LA takes Jackson? I suppose Ainge could work out a trade with LA then if they really love Fultz.

Danny won't do that...

If he finds out the Lakers are taking Jackson and he really wants Jackson in the end...He will draft him 1st

the team that gets screwed either way is the 76ers

scenerio 1

Celtics  - Fultz
Lakers - Jackson
76ers  - screwed

scenerio 2

Celtics - Jackson
Lakers - Fultz
76ers - screwed

If i were the Lakers I would mess with the 76ers head and tell them  I want something in return...and we will bypass on Jackson
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on June 17, 2017, 05:16:26 PM
Keith Pompey from Philly Inquirer:

Quote
More
#Lakers can screws things up by drafting Josh Jackson. That's why word out of Boston is #Celtics want to wait until draft night.



https://twitter.com/PompeyOnSixers/status/876102050857275394

I hope this is what we do. Draft Markelle Fultz at #1 and wait. It's senseless to do the trade now when there's a risk on missing out on both Fultz and Josh Jackson. In any scenarios after this, our worst case is we end up with Fultz.

This has to be the deal.

If this is true...Celtics set on Jackson... Dont want Ball or anybody else

If they are set on Jackson, what do they do if they take Fultz at #1 and then LA takes Jackson? I suppose Ainge could work out a trade with LA then if they really love Fultz.

Negotiate with the Lakers.

Didn't Magic "loved" Markelle Fultz?
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: mef730 on June 17, 2017, 05:18:15 PM
A few days ago, I was complaining that this was the most boring lead-up period to the draft in ages. Now, what I wouldn't give for boring...

Mike
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 17, 2017, 05:22:22 PM
Keith Pompey from Philly Inquirer:

Quote
More
#Lakers can screws things up by drafting Josh Jackson. That's why word out of Boston is #Celtics want to wait until draft night.



https://twitter.com/PompeyOnSixers/status/876102050857275394

I hope this is what we do. Draft Markelle Fultz at #1 and wait. It's senseless to do the trade now when there's a risk on missing out on both Fultz and Josh Jackson. In any scenarios after this, our worst case is we end up with Fultz.

This has to be the deal.

If this is true...Celtics set on Jackson... Dont want Ball or anybody else

If they are set on Jackson, what do they do if they take Fultz at #1 and then LA takes Jackson? I suppose Ainge could work out a trade with LA then if they really love Fultz.

Negotiate with the Lakers.

Didn't Magic "loved" Markelle Fultz?

and screw the 76ers??

what can the lakers offer
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: hpantazo on June 17, 2017, 05:24:14 PM
Looking more at Josh Jackson footage, he reminds me of Scottie Pippen.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on June 17, 2017, 05:24:42 PM
Keith Pompey from Philly Inquirer:

Quote
More
#Lakers can screws things up by drafting Josh Jackson. That's why word out of Boston is #Celtics want to wait until draft night.



https://twitter.com/PompeyOnSixers/status/876102050857275394

I hope this is what we do. Draft Markelle Fultz at #1 and wait. It's senseless to do the trade now when there's a risk on missing out on both Fultz and Josh Jackson. In any scenarios after this, our worst case is we end up with Fultz.

This has to be the deal.

If this is true...Celtics set on Jackson... Dont want Ball or anybody else

If they are set on Jackson, what do they do if they take Fultz at #1 and then LA takes Jackson? I suppose Ainge could work out a trade with LA then if they really love Fultz.

Negotiate with the Lakers.

Didn't Magic "loved" Markelle Fultz?

and screw the 76ers??

Absolutely.

Why do we have to have an obligation to help them?

The deal is simple...

We take the (supposed) #3, 2018 LAL and 2021 Philly first, protections and everything. But we set a contingent, and it will be with Josh Jackson be available at #3 AFTER we pick Markelle Fultz.

If he is, and the Sixers wan't Fultz, deal is on. If not, no deal. If Jackson is who they want and he is at #3, no deal. We still keep Fultz.

Why do we have to take all of the risk of losing out on both guys?
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 17, 2017, 05:25:58 PM
things will become clearer once we know what happens with Ball

Ball recently had a 2nd workout with the Lakers... he and his camp want to know where they stand

IF we hear Ball ready to workout for another team all of a sudden

Well then this deal with the 76ers could be jeopardy
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 17, 2017, 05:27:23 PM
Keith Pompey from Philly Inquirer:

Quote
More
#Lakers can screws things up by drafting Josh Jackson. That's why word out of Boston is #Celtics want to wait until draft night.



https://twitter.com/PompeyOnSixers/status/876102050857275394

I hope this is what we do. Draft Markelle Fultz at #1 and wait. It's senseless to do the trade now when there's a risk on missing out on both Fultz and Josh Jackson. In any scenarios after this, our worst case is we end up with Fultz.

This has to be the deal.

If this is true...Celtics set on Jackson... Dont want Ball or anybody else

If they are set on Jackson, what do they do if they take Fultz at #1 and then LA takes Jackson? I suppose Ainge could work out a trade with LA then if they really love Fultz.

Negotiate with the Lakers.

Didn't Magic "loved" Markelle Fultz?

and screw the 76ers??

Absolutely.

Why do we have to have an obligation to help them?

The deal is simple...

We take the (supposed) #3, 2018 LAL and 2021 Philly first, protections and everything. But we set a contingent, and it will be with Josh Jackson be available at #3 AFTER we pick Markelle Fultz.

If he is, and the Sixers wan't Fultz, deal is on. If not, no deal. If Jackson is who they want and he is at #3, no deal. We still keep Fultz.

Why do we have to take all of the risk of losing out on both guys?

true
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on June 17, 2017, 05:27:43 PM
Quote
what can the lakers offer

I don't know, Ivica Zubac? Rights to switch picks in 2019 (for our own). 2021 or 2022 unprotected 1st. Tariq Black. Julius Randle. Some of those.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on June 17, 2017, 05:34:30 PM
Quote
what can the lakers offer

I don't know, Ivica Zubac? Rights to switch picks in 2019 (for our own). 2021 or 2022 unprotected 1st. Tariq Black. Julius Randle. Some of those.

I just can't see DAnny nor Magic doing this lol....  especially just in case one prospect turns out to be better than the other or Danny fleeces the Lakers.....we will never  hear the end of it

Maybe in the end the 76ers will have to pay "bully" money to both Celtics and Lakers to get their guy....

or things take a life of its own and Celtics, Lakers, 76ers make a 3 way trade
 
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: footey on June 17, 2017, 05:48:27 PM
Lakers leverage is limited if they want Ball.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Future Celtics Owner on June 17, 2017, 06:00:40 PM
Quote
what can the lakers offer

I don't know, Ivica Zubac? Rights to switch picks in 2019 (for our own). 2021 or 2022 unprotected 1st. Tariq Black. Julius Randle. Some of those.

I just can't see DAnny nor Magic doing this lol....  especially just in case one prospect turns out to be better than the other or Danny fleeces the Lakers.....we will never  hear the end of it

Maybe in the end the 76ers will have to pay "bully" money to both Celtics and Lakers to get their guy....

or things take a life of its own and Celtics, Lakers, 76ers make a 3 way trade
LAL also have Ingram and Russel but neither is worth Fultz so it would have to be in a package and we would need to give a player up
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: dreamgreen on June 17, 2017, 06:05:25 PM
Keith Pompey from Philly Inquirer:

Quote
More
#Lakers can screws things up by drafting Josh Jackson. That's why word out of Boston is #Celtics want to wait until draft night.

I threw up in my mouth when I just read that. So disappointing my only hope is that the Fakers save us. I HATE wings that can't shoot, they have no place in the league!

Good news for me is I don't think the Fakers will take Ball so they could block this!!!

Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on June 17, 2017, 06:12:06 PM
Quote
what can the lakers offer

I don't know, Ivica Zubac? Rights to switch picks in 2019 (for our own). 2021 or 2022 unprotected 1st. Tariq Black. Julius Randle. Some of those.

I just can't see DAnny nor Magic doing this lol....  especially just in case one prospect turns out to be better than the other or Danny fleeces the Lakers.....we will never  hear the end of it

Maybe in the end the 76ers will have to pay "bully" money to both Celtics and Lakers to get their guy....

or things take a life of its own and Celtics, Lakers, 76ers make a 3 way trade

Then we keep Fultz. It's not going to be the end of the world to get stuck with arguably the best player of this draft.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: No Nickname on June 17, 2017, 06:47:09 PM
Last year the Sixers had the #1 pick and the C's had #3 with the Lakers at #2 both times.

Colangelo refused to even consider any kind of trade with Danny for the #1. Maybe Danny is just screwing with Colangelo and teasing him but won't pull the trigger.

The thing is I just can't imagine Danny offered up Brooklyn's 17 pick plus last year's #3 (Jaylen Brown) for the #1 (Simmons).  And I'd say Jackson at three this year is more valuable than Brown at three last year.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Jarrin John on June 17, 2017, 09:48:06 PM
Quote
The negative nellies here need to get a grip. Ainge knows better than we do.

THIS^^^^^^^

He has more knowledge and information.

That doesn't mean he's always right.

By your own admission his process is exponentially superior. So I think it does mean he's always right. But it just doesn't always turn out "right."
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Roy H. on June 17, 2017, 09:55:14 PM
Quote
The negative nellies here need to get a grip. Ainge knows better than we do.

THIS^^^^^^^

He has more knowledge and information.

That doesn't mean he's always right.

By your own admission his process is exponentially superior. So I think it does mean he's always right. But it just doesn't always turn out "right."

That makes zero sense. Even when a GM is wrong he's right?

So, Billy King was right when he made the KG/Pierce trade? The Blazers were correct when they passed on Jordan and Durant? And if Danny picks Luke Kennard #1, he's still right, and by extensions, fans who object are wrong?

A better process doesn't guarantee a better result. And, as an aside, don't put words in my mouth. I made no such admission.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Dino Pitino on June 17, 2017, 10:03:50 PM
Who here thinks they know the draft and trade values better than Ainge? Raise your hand, everyone who's mad about these rumors. Hands up yet? Okay, good. Now, read this closely and get it through your heads:

YOU ARE WRONG.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Dino Pitino on June 17, 2017, 10:10:33 PM
Quote
And, as an aside, don't put words in my mouth. I made no such admission.

Bro, you can't even admit that Ainge's process is exponentially superior to yours? Are you serious? You admit that he has more knowledge and information, but you think your evaluation process is in the same ballpark as his? Get real. Admit it.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Beat LA on June 17, 2017, 10:13:04 PM
Quote
And, as an aside, don't put words in my mouth. I made no such admission.

Bro, you can't even admit that Ainge's process is exponentially superior to yours? Are you serious? You admit that he has more knowledge and information, but you think your evaluation process is in the same ballpark as his? Get real. Admit it.

You mad? ;D
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: hwangjini_1 on June 17, 2017, 10:14:20 PM
Keith Pompey from Philly Inquirer:

Quote
More
#Lakers can screws things up by drafting Josh Jackson. That's why word out of Boston is #Celtics want to wait until draft night.

I threw up in my mouth when I just read that. So disappointing my only hope is that the Fakers save us. I HATE wings that can't shoot, they have no place in the league!

Good news for me is I don't think the Fakers will take Ball so they could block this!!!
Wings that can't shoot, by whom I assume you mean Jackson.

Jackson shot 55% last season and was 38% from three point land.  Over the last two months he shot 47% from three point land.  In his freshman season his FT percentage went up each month.

Pretty high bar you have set there.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Roy H. on June 17, 2017, 10:18:25 PM
Quote
And, as an aside, don't put words in my mouth. I made no such admission.

Bro, you can't even admit that Ainge's process is exponentially superior to yours? Are you serious? You admit that he has more knowledge and information, but you think your evaluation process is in the same ballpark as his? Get real. Admit it.

I'm not sure that you know what "exponentially" means.

Danny's process is better. Is it "exponentially" better than that of the experts that fans follow? Game film, analytics, measurements, etc. are all available to the public.

Results matter. If you compared Danny's picks to, say, Jonathon Givony, would there be an "exponential" difference? Again, unless you don't know what the word means, the answer is clearly no.

Bro. Lol.

Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: ausbacker on June 17, 2017, 10:19:26 PM
Forums are much more palatable when you understand armchair experts are infinitely more skilled in talent evaluation and have far more up to the minute information at their disposal than those with lifelong careers working at the coalface.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: fantankerous on June 17, 2017, 10:22:21 PM
Quote
The negative nellies here need to get a grip. Ainge knows better than we do.

THIS^^^^^^^

He has more knowledge and information.

That doesn't mean he's always right.

I agree 100% with this pithy statement.  It doesn't help us evaluate the current deal however. 
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: jay on June 17, 2017, 10:24:25 PM
I'm curious,  the rumor is #1 for #3, plus LAL 2018, and Philly 2021? Or possibly SAC 2019?

Anyway,

What if the rumor was #1 to Phoenix for #4 plus the two picks that Miami owes to Phoenix?  The assumption being that Ball, Jackson, and Fultz would be off the board at #4. Do we still do it?
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Dino Pitino on June 17, 2017, 10:32:06 PM
Quote
And, as an aside, don't put words in my mouth. I made no such admission.

Bro, you can't even admit that Ainge's process is exponentially superior to yours? Are you serious? You admit that he has more knowledge and information, but you think your evaluation process is in the same ballpark as his? Get real. Admit it.

I'm not sure that you know what "exponentially" means.

Danny's process is better. Is it "exponentially" better than that of the experts that fans follow? Game film, analytics, measurements, etc. are all available to the public.

Results matter. If you compared Danny's picks to, say, Jonathon Givony, would there be an "exponential" difference? Again, unless you don't know what the word means, the answer is clearly no.

Bro. Lol.

Ah, so "your" process is relying on DraftExpress. You think an NBA franchise like the Celtics don't have an exponentially* better evaluation process for reviewing film/stats/measurements than an all-purpose fan-directed quasi-pro draft website?

*Not literally involving exponents
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Roy H. on June 17, 2017, 10:35:07 PM
Quote
And, as an aside, don't put words in my mouth. I made no such admission.

Bro, you can't even admit that Ainge's process is exponentially superior to yours? Are you serious? You admit that he has more knowledge and information, but you think your evaluation process is in the same ballpark as his? Get real. Admit it.

I'm not sure that you know what "exponentially" means.

Danny's process is better. Is it "exponentially" better than that of the experts that fans follow? Game film, analytics, measurements, etc. are all available to the public.

Results matter. If you compared Danny's picks to, say, Jonathon Givony, would there be an "exponential" difference? Again, unless you don't know what the word means, the answer is clearly no.

Bro. Lol.

Ah, so "your" process is relying on DraftExpress. You think an NBA franchise like the Celtics don't have an exponentially* better evaluation process for reviewing film/stats/measurements than an all-purpose fan-directed quasi-pro draft website?

*Not literally involving exponents

No, frankly, I don't. My guess is that an aggregator of expert opinions would be close in terms of results to that of Danny.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Dino Pitino on June 17, 2017, 10:35:33 PM
Forums are much more palatable when you understand armchair experts are infinitely more skilled in talent evaluation and have far more up to the minute information at their disposal than those with lifelong careers working at the coalface.

My sides, lol. TP.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Roy H. on June 17, 2017, 10:36:29 PM
I'm curious,  the rumor is #1 for #3, plus LAL 2018, and Philly 2021? Or possibly SAC 2019?

Anyway,

What if the rumor was #1 to Phoenix for #4 plus the two picks that Miami owes to Phoenix?  The assumption being that Ball, Jackson, and Fultz would be off the board at #4. Do we still do it?

No. We don't need borderline lottery picks.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Roy H. on June 17, 2017, 10:41:18 PM
Forums are much more palatable when you understand armchair experts are infinitely more skilled in talent evaluation and have far more up to the minute information at their disposal than those with lifelong careers working at the coalface.

Billy King had more assets at his disposal. Were fans who disagreed with him inherently wrong, too?

Many, many fans preferred DeAndre Jordan to J.R. Giddens. We're all the rubes sitting at their computers just morons who should have genuflected to Danny and his up to the minute information?
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Eddie20 on October 22, 2017, 01:29:29 PM
Over 4 months later and how quickly things change. A lot of people were deadset against this deal and with the way Tatum has looked, as well as Fultz' disastrous shooting woes, it's safe to say Danny knows best.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: fairweatherfan on October 22, 2017, 01:41:45 PM
Over 4 months later and how quickly things change. A lot of people were deadset against this deal and with the way Tatum has looked, as well as Fultz' disastrous shooting woes, it's safe to say Danny knows best.

It's still far too early to come to any fixed conclusions on the deal, but the early returns pretty clearly support the premises that:

- Tatum was the better choice and
- we would've taken him #1 if the trade hadn't happened.

Which leads to believing that we got a high draft pick in exchange for not having to pay Tatum as much  ;D  But again, PLENTY of time for more info to change that.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Rondo9 on October 22, 2017, 01:47:00 PM
I think it’s best to wait until the middle of the season at least.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Eddie20 on October 22, 2017, 02:02:37 PM
I think it’s best to wait until the middle of the season at least.

I agree, but that didn't stop all the strong opinions against the trade before either player even wore a jersey. That said, if the draft were redone today I would strongly doubt Fultz is still #1 on too many boards.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: max215 on October 22, 2017, 02:06:04 PM
I think it’s best to wait until the middle of the season at least.

I agree, but that didn't stop all the strong opinions against the trade before either player even wore a jersey. That said, if the draft were redone today I would strongly doubt Fultz is still #1 on too many boards.

Oh, yes, how dare anyone conduct draft evaluations? The audacity of some people.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Eddie20 on October 22, 2017, 02:10:58 PM
I think it’s best to wait until the middle of the season at least.

I agree, but that didn't stop all the strong opinions against the trade before either player even wore a jersey. That said, if the draft were redone today I would strongly doubt Fultz is still #1 on too many boards.

Oh, yes, how dare anyone conduct draft evaluations? The audacity of some people.

Wait, so what you're saying is it's okay to have strong convictions prior to the draft, but it's premature to have an opinion based on actual NBA footage? It's fluid, but in that fluidity it's safe to say right now, October 22, 2017, Tatum is clearly the better player, has the most longterm potential between the two (Tatum vs Fultz), and Ainge was undoubtedly correct.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: max215 on October 22, 2017, 02:36:51 PM
I think it’s best to wait until the middle of the season at least.

I agree, but that didn't stop all the strong opinions against the trade before either player even wore a jersey. That said, if the draft were redone today I would strongly doubt Fultz is still #1 on too many boards.

Oh, yes, how dare anyone conduct draft evaluations? The audacity of some people.

Wait, so what you're saying is it's okay to have strong convictions prior to the draft, but it's premature to have an opinion based on actual NBA footage? It's fluid, but in that fluidity it's safe to say right now, October 22, 2017, Tatum is clearly the better player, has the most longterm potential between the two (Tatum vs Fultz), and Ainge was undoubtedly correct.

Yes, I think drawing conclusions from a season of college basketball is more reasonable than from 3 games of NBA basketball. I do not believe this is a hot take.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Eddie20 on October 22, 2017, 02:46:35 PM
I think it’s best to wait until the middle of the season at least.

I agree, but that didn't stop all the strong opinions against the trade before either player even wore a jersey. That said, if the draft were redone today I would strongly doubt Fultz is still #1 on too many boards.

Oh, yes, how dare anyone conduct draft evaluations? The audacity of some people.

Wait, so what you're saying is it's okay to have strong convictions prior to the draft, but it's premature to have an opinion based on actual NBA footage? It's fluid, but in that fluidity it's safe to say right now, October 22, 2017, Tatum is clearly the better player, has the most longterm potential between the two (Tatum vs Fultz), and Ainge was undoubtedly correct.

Yes, I think drawing conclusions from a season of college basketball is more reasonable than from 3 games of NBA basketball. I do not believe this is a hot take.

Really? So based on that I assume you believe that despite all the evidence we have on Fultz during summer league, preseason, the 3 regular season games, the footage on his FT shooting in scrimmages, and Brown being pretty concerned about his mechanics, you would still take those 25 college games, and draft him #1. Is that correct?

Edit:
I mean Derek Bodner, Sixers beat writer, who RARELY says a negative word on team recently said something to the effect of - The Sixers traded up to draft a Rondo, without the passing, at #1.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Boris Badenov on October 22, 2017, 03:10:31 PM
Way too early to tell.

I will offer this though. Danny seems to care a lot about the mental makeup of his players, going back to the beginning of his tenure as GM. And this sequence might say something about that. Fultz looks like a deer in the headlights out there. And he made a decision to alter his shot that was (a) seemingly without the advice or consent of his new coaches, and (b) incredibly poorly timed. Who *does* that?

Everyone has bad games and plenty of All-NBA players have gotten off to atrocious rookie starts. But something just feels different here.

Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Phantom255x on October 22, 2017, 03:25:23 PM
Well, if we go by this logic, then I guess we can say the Kyrie trade was a bust. Right?

I mean... one HORRIBLE game, 1-2 start, payed a $25K fine, hasn't looked like a leader some of the games, hasn't made others looked better, selfish, etc.. I guess CLE already won this deal.  ::)

Come on, it's only 3 games in. Get back to me when we're 30 games into the season.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Eddie20 on October 22, 2017, 03:32:14 PM
Well, if we go by this logic, then I guess we can say the Kyrie trade was a bust. Right?

I mean... one HORRIBLE game, 1-2 start, payed a $25K fine, hasn't looked like a leader some of the games, hasn't made others looked better, selfish, etc.. I guess CLE already won this deal.  ::)

Come on, it's only 3 games in. Get back to me when we're 30 games into the season.

Are you really comparing Irving to Fultz? A fine? That's part of your argument? How exactly has Irving been selfish?

Fultz's issue is not adjusting to a team, like Irving. His issue is a shot that's fundamentally broken and that's a major issue when he's playing off of Simmons and Embiid and one of the reasons he was thought of so highly is because they were under the impression he could shoot. This despite his pre-draft workout with the team where he was said to struggle shooting from the perimeter.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: max215 on October 22, 2017, 03:34:14 PM
I think it’s best to wait until the middle of the season at least.

I agree, but that didn't stop all the strong opinions against the trade before either player even wore a jersey. That said, if the draft were redone today I would strongly doubt Fultz is still #1 on too many boards.

Oh, yes, how dare anyone conduct draft evaluations? The audacity of some people.

Wait, so what you're saying is it's okay to have strong convictions prior to the draft, but it's premature to have an opinion based on actual NBA footage? It's fluid, but in that fluidity it's safe to say right now, October 22, 2017, Tatum is clearly the better player, has the most longterm potential between the two (Tatum vs Fultz), and Ainge was undoubtedly correct.

Yes, I think drawing conclusions from a season of college basketball is more reasonable than from 3 games of NBA basketball. I do not believe this is a hot take.

Really? So based on that I assume you believe that despite all the evidence we have on Fultz during summer league, preseason, the 3 regular season games, the footage on his FT shooting in scrimmages, and Brown being pretty concerned about his mechanics, you would still take those 25 college games, and draft him #1. Is that correct?

Edit:
I mean Derek Bodner, Sixers beat writer, who RARELY says a negative word on team recently said something to the effect of - The Sixers traded up to draft a Rondo, without the passing, at #1.

Yes, given the information I have access to, I'd still take him #1 overall. However, I'm now open to the possibility that Danny had access to information that justified the trade. As for Bodner, you added a fair amount of your own flavor to what he actually said:

https://twitter.com/DerekBodnerNBA/status/921953346973519872
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: moiso on October 22, 2017, 03:36:14 PM
I think it’s best to wait until the middle of the season at least.

I agree, but that didn't stop all the strong opinions against the trade before either player even wore a jersey. That said, if the draft were redone today I would strongly doubt Fultz is still #1 on too many boards.

Oh, yes, how dare anyone conduct draft evaluations? The audacity of some people.

Wait, so what you're saying is it's okay to have strong convictions prior to the draft, but it's premature to have an opinion based on actual NBA footage? It's fluid, but in that fluidity it's safe to say right now, October 22, 2017, Tatum is clearly the better player, has the most longterm potential between the two (Tatum vs Fultz), and Ainge was undoubtedly correct.

Yes, I think drawing conclusions from a season of college basketball is more reasonable than from 3 games of NBA basketball. I do not believe this is a hot take.
I think 3 NBA games and the preseason is much more valuable information than 1000 college games.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Eddie20 on October 22, 2017, 03:37:19 PM
I think it’s best to wait until the middle of the season at least.

I agree, but that didn't stop all the strong opinions against the trade before either player even wore a jersey. That said, if the draft were redone today I would strongly doubt Fultz is still #1 on too many boards.

Oh, yes, how dare anyone conduct draft evaluations? The audacity of some people.

Wait, so what you're saying is it's okay to have strong convictions prior to the draft, but it's premature to have an opinion based on actual NBA footage? It's fluid, but in that fluidity it's safe to say right now, October 22, 2017, Tatum is clearly the better player, has the most longterm potential between the two (Tatum vs Fultz), and Ainge was undoubtedly correct.

Yes, I think drawing conclusions from a season of college basketball is more reasonable than from 3 games of NBA basketball. I do not believe this is a hot take.

Really? So based on that I assume you believe that despite all the evidence we have on Fultz during summer league, preseason, the 3 regular season games, the footage on his FT shooting in scrimmages, and Brown being pretty concerned about his mechanics, you would still take those 25 college games, and draft him #1. Is that correct?

Edit:
I mean Derek Bodner, Sixers beat writer, who RARELY says a negative word on team recently said something to the effect of - The Sixers traded up to draft a Rondo, without the passing, at #1.

Yes, given the information I have access to, I'd still take him #1 overall. However, I'm now open to the possibility that Danny had access to information that justified the trade. As for Bodner, you added a fair amount of your own flavor to what he actually said:

https://twitter.com/DerekBodnerNBA/status/921953346973519872

We'll see how that goes for you...
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Ilikesports17 on October 22, 2017, 03:39:27 PM
I think it’s best to wait until the middle of the season at least.

I agree, but that didn't stop all the strong opinions against the trade before either player even wore a jersey. That said, if the draft were redone today I would strongly doubt Fultz is still #1 on too many boards.

Oh, yes, how dare anyone conduct draft evaluations? The audacity of some people.

Wait, so what you're saying is it's okay to have strong convictions prior to the draft, but it's premature to have an opinion based on actual NBA footage? It's fluid, but in that fluidity it's safe to say right now, October 22, 2017, Tatum is clearly the better player, has the most longterm potential between the two (Tatum vs Fultz), and Ainge was undoubtedly correct.

Yes, I think drawing conclusions from a season of college basketball is more reasonable than from 3 games of NBA basketball. I do not believe this is a hot take.

Really? So based on that I assume you believe that despite all the evidence we have on Fultz during summer league, preseason, the 3 regular season games, the footage on his FT shooting in scrimmages, and Brown being pretty concerned about his mechanics, you would still take those 25 college games, and draft him #1. Is that correct?

Edit:
I mean Derek Bodner, Sixers beat writer, who RARELY says a negative word on team recently said something to the effect of - The Sixers traded up to draft a Rondo, without the passing, at #1.

Yes, given the information I have access to, I'd still take him #1 overall. However, I'm now open to the possibility that Danny had access to information that justified the trade. As for Bodner, you added a fair amount of your own flavor to what he actually said:

https://twitter.com/DerekBodnerNBA/status/921953346973519872
Given the info I had prior to the draft, Id take Fultz #1 all day long, but I dont think Id take him #1 now. This is a legitimate and serious issue. He has either has a serious injury he should not be playing through, or he has a serious mental problem.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: max215 on October 22, 2017, 03:41:24 PM
I think it’s best to wait until the middle of the season at least.

I agree, but that didn't stop all the strong opinions against the trade before either player even wore a jersey. That said, if the draft were redone today I would strongly doubt Fultz is still #1 on too many boards.

Oh, yes, how dare anyone conduct draft evaluations? The audacity of some people.

Wait, so what you're saying is it's okay to have strong convictions prior to the draft, but it's premature to have an opinion based on actual NBA footage? It's fluid, but in that fluidity it's safe to say right now, October 22, 2017, Tatum is clearly the better player, has the most longterm potential between the two (Tatum vs Fultz), and Ainge was undoubtedly correct.

Yes, I think drawing conclusions from a season of college basketball is more reasonable than from 3 games of NBA basketball. I do not believe this is a hot take.
I think 3 NBA games and the preseason is much more valuable information than 1000 college games.

Yep, sure can draw a lot from 3 NBA games. Does make you question why Danny traded so much for 37% shooter Kyrie Irving, though.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Phantom255x on October 22, 2017, 03:42:21 PM
Well, if we go by this logic, then I guess we can say the Kyrie trade was a bust. Right?

I mean... one HORRIBLE game, 1-2 start, payed a $25K fine, hasn't looked like a leader some of the games, hasn't made others looked better, selfish, etc.. I guess CLE already won this deal.  ::)

Come on, it's only 3 games in. Get back to me when we're 30 games into the season.

Are you really comparing Irving to Fultz? A fine? That's part of your argument? How exactly has Irving been selfish?

Fultz's issue is not adjusting to a team, like Irving. His issue is a shot that's fundamentally broken and that's a major issue when he's playing off of Simmons and Embiid and one of the reasons he was thought of so highly is because they were under the impression he could shoot. This despite his pre-draft workout with the team where he was said to struggle shooting from the perimeter.

Nope, I didn't make comparisons here. You missed my point entirely.

I'm responding to those saying that we officially won the deal (the pick swap) after seeing just 3 games in an NBA season, and pretty much rhetorically asking what people think of the Kyrie trade after watching 3 games (do they call that a bust already, or huge win?)
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: max215 on October 22, 2017, 03:45:15 PM
I think it’s best to wait until the middle of the season at least.

I agree, but that didn't stop all the strong opinions against the trade before either player even wore a jersey. That said, if the draft were redone today I would strongly doubt Fultz is still #1 on too many boards.

Oh, yes, how dare anyone conduct draft evaluations? The audacity of some people.

Wait, so what you're saying is it's okay to have strong convictions prior to the draft, but it's premature to have an opinion based on actual NBA footage? It's fluid, but in that fluidity it's safe to say right now, October 22, 2017, Tatum is clearly the better player, has the most longterm potential between the two (Tatum vs Fultz), and Ainge was undoubtedly correct.

Yes, I think drawing conclusions from a season of college basketball is more reasonable than from 3 games of NBA basketball. I do not believe this is a hot take.

Really? So based on that I assume you believe that despite all the evidence we have on Fultz during summer league, preseason, the 3 regular season games, the footage on his FT shooting in scrimmages, and Brown being pretty concerned about his mechanics, you would still take those 25 college games, and draft him #1. Is that correct?

Edit:
I mean Derek Bodner, Sixers beat writer, who RARELY says a negative word on team recently said something to the effect of - The Sixers traded up to draft a Rondo, without the passing, at #1.

Yes, given the information I have access to, I'd still take him #1 overall. However, I'm now open to the possibility that Danny had access to information that justified the trade. As for Bodner, you added a fair amount of your own flavor to what he actually said:

https://twitter.com/DerekBodnerNBA/status/921953346973519872
Given the info I had prior to the draft, Id take Fultz #1 all day long, but I dont think Id take him #1 now. This is a legitimate and serious issue. He has either has a serious injury he should not be playing through, or he has a serious mental problem.

That's fine. I prefer to stick to my prior evaluation for longer, but Fultz looks like a different player now (for the worse). If you think that's who he is and not the special player we saw at Washington, then I would hope you wouldn't take him #1. I'm not pretending that I'm not concerned. What Fultz has shown is terrifying, but at Washington, he was truly special, and as bad as he's been, he's still shown some of that incredible herky jerky game that made him so unstoppable. I'm giving him time, and a lot of it, before I write him off.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: max215 on October 22, 2017, 03:46:22 PM
I think it’s best to wait until the middle of the season at least.

I agree, but that didn't stop all the strong opinions against the trade before either player even wore a jersey. That said, if the draft were redone today I would strongly doubt Fultz is still #1 on too many boards.

Oh, yes, how dare anyone conduct draft evaluations? The audacity of some people.

Wait, so what you're saying is it's okay to have strong convictions prior to the draft, but it's premature to have an opinion based on actual NBA footage? It's fluid, but in that fluidity it's safe to say right now, October 22, 2017, Tatum is clearly the better player, has the most longterm potential between the two (Tatum vs Fultz), and Ainge was undoubtedly correct.

Yes, I think drawing conclusions from a season of college basketball is more reasonable than from 3 games of NBA basketball. I do not believe this is a hot take.

Really? So based on that I assume you believe that despite all the evidence we have on Fultz during summer league, preseason, the 3 regular season games, the footage on his FT shooting in scrimmages, and Brown being pretty concerned about his mechanics, you would still take those 25 college games, and draft him #1. Is that correct?

Edit:
I mean Derek Bodner, Sixers beat writer, who RARELY says a negative word on team recently said something to the effect of - The Sixers traded up to draft a Rondo, without the passing, at #1.

Yes, given the information I have access to, I'd still take him #1 overall. However, I'm now open to the possibility that Danny had access to information that justified the trade. As for Bodner, you added a fair amount of your own flavor to what he actually said:

https://twitter.com/DerekBodnerNBA/status/921953346973519872

We'll see how that goes for you...

Well, yeah, and we're not going to know for multiple years, which is why it was probably slightly premature to revive this thread 3 games into Fultz's career.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Eddie20 on October 22, 2017, 03:57:02 PM
Well, if we go by this logic, then I guess we can say the Kyrie trade was a bust. Right?

I mean... one HORRIBLE game, 1-2 start, payed a $25K fine, hasn't looked like a leader some of the games, hasn't made others looked better, selfish, etc.. I guess CLE already won this deal.  ::)

Come on, it's only 3 games in. Get back to me when we're 30 games into the season.

Are you really comparing Irving to Fultz? A fine? That's part of your argument? How exactly has Irving been selfish?

Fultz's issue is not adjusting to a team, like Irving. His issue is a shot that's fundamentally broken and that's a major issue when he's playing off of Simmons and Embiid and one of the reasons he was thought of so highly is because they were under the impression he could shoot. This despite his pre-draft workout with the team where he was said to struggle shooting from the perimeter.

Nope, I didn't make comparisons here. You missed my point entirely.

I'm responding to those saying that we officially won the deal (the pick swap) after seeing just 3 games in an NBA season, and pretty much rhetorically asking what people think of the Kyrie trade after watching 3 games (do they call that a bust already, or huge win?)

It's not just that Fultz is missing, it's that his shot is completely broken. That's a HUGE concern. You're understating the concern. I'm not even bringing up his questionable personalty and seemingly lack of maturity.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Phantom255x on October 22, 2017, 03:58:05 PM
Well, if we go by this logic, then I guess we can say the Kyrie trade was a bust. Right?

I mean... one HORRIBLE game, 1-2 start, payed a $25K fine, hasn't looked like a leader some of the games, hasn't made others looked better, selfish, etc.. I guess CLE already won this deal.  ::)

Come on, it's only 3 games in. Get back to me when we're 30 games into the season.

Are you really comparing Irving to Fultz? A fine? That's part of your argument? How exactly has Irving been selfish?

Fultz's issue is not adjusting to a team, like Irving. His issue is a shot that's fundamentally broken and that's a major issue when he's playing off of Simmons and Embiid and one of the reasons he was thought of so highly is because they were under the impression he could shoot. This despite his pre-draft workout with the team where he was said to struggle shooting from the perimeter.

Nope, I didn't make comparisons here. You missed my point entirely.

I'm responding to those saying that we officially won the deal (the pick swap) after seeing just 3 games in an NBA season, and pretty much rhetorically asking what people think of the Kyrie trade after watching 3 games (do they call that a bust already, or huge win?)

It's not just that Fultz is missing, it's that his shot is completely broken. That's a HUGE concern. You're understating the concern. I'm not even bringing up his questionable personalty and seemingly lack of maturity.

I agree with that, and I'd also agree that so far, the deal looks good for us right now.

I'm just saying, we should probably give it some time. Because as you know around here, once Fultz scores like 30 points the next game, everyone here will change their tune  :laugh:
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Eddie20 on October 22, 2017, 04:00:27 PM
Well, if we go by this logic, then I guess we can say the Kyrie trade was a bust. Right?

I mean... one HORRIBLE game, 1-2 start, payed a $25K fine, hasn't looked like a leader some of the games, hasn't made others looked better, selfish, etc.. I guess CLE already won this deal.  ::)

Come on, it's only 3 games in. Get back to me when we're 30 games into the season.

Are you really comparing Irving to Fultz? A fine? That's part of your argument? How exactly has Irving been selfish?

Fultz's issue is not adjusting to a team, like Irving. His issue is a shot that's fundamentally broken and that's a major issue when he's playing off of Simmons and Embiid and one of the reasons he was thought of so highly is because they were under the impression he could shoot. This despite his pre-draft workout with the team where he was said to struggle shooting from the perimeter.

Nope, I didn't make comparisons here. You missed my point entirely.

I'm responding to those saying that we officially won the deal (the pick swap) after seeing just 3 games in an NBA season, and pretty much rhetorically asking what people think of the Kyrie trade after watching 3 games (do they call that a bust already, or huge win?)

It's not just that Fultz is missing, it's that his shot is completely broken. That's a HUGE concern. You're understating the concern. I'm not even bringing up his questionable personalty and seemingly lack of maturity.

I agree with that, and I'd also agree that so far, the deal looks good for us right now.

I'm just saying, we should probably give it some time. Because as you know around here, once Fultz scores like 30 points the next game, everyone here will change their tune  :laugh:

Score 30? I'm assuming they'll all be layups because you can forget about perimeter shooting and free throws. Maybe in 2K Fultz isn't scared to shoot and can score 30.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Phantom255x on October 22, 2017, 04:02:24 PM
Well, if we go by this logic, then I guess we can say the Kyrie trade was a bust. Right?

I mean... one HORRIBLE game, 1-2 start, payed a $25K fine, hasn't looked like a leader some of the games, hasn't made others looked better, selfish, etc.. I guess CLE already won this deal.  ::)

Come on, it's only 3 games in. Get back to me when we're 30 games into the season.

Are you really comparing Irving to Fultz? A fine? That's part of your argument? How exactly has Irving been selfish?

Fultz's issue is not adjusting to a team, like Irving. His issue is a shot that's fundamentally broken and that's a major issue when he's playing off of Simmons and Embiid and one of the reasons he was thought of so highly is because they were under the impression he could shoot. This despite his pre-draft workout with the team where he was said to struggle shooting from the perimeter.

Nope, I didn't make comparisons here. You missed my point entirely.

I'm responding to those saying that we officially won the deal (the pick swap) after seeing just 3 games in an NBA season, and pretty much rhetorically asking what people think of the Kyrie trade after watching 3 games (do they call that a bust already, or huge win?)

It's not just that Fultz is missing, it's that his shot is completely broken. That's a HUGE concern. You're understating the concern. I'm not even bringing up his questionable personalty and seemingly lack of maturity.

I agree with that, and I'd also agree that so far, the deal looks good for us right now.

I'm just saying, we should probably give it some time. Because as you know around here, once Fultz scores like 30 points the next game, everyone here will change their tune  :laugh:

Score 30? I'm assuming they'll all be layups because you can forget about perimeter shooting and free throws. Maybe in 2K Fultz isn't scared to shoot and can score 30.

Lol probably.

But Lonzo was horrible first game, then second game scored 29 points and close to a triple double (though he got 29 points in like 27 shots). Some people on here were like, "WOW LOOK AT LONZO GO!" about a day after many considered him a relative bust already.

I wish Fultz well in the future but hope he doesn't become an all-star while Tatum becomes a superstar  8)
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: jpotter33 on October 22, 2017, 04:02:40 PM
I think it’s best to wait until the middle of the season at least.

I agree, but that didn't stop all the strong opinions against the trade before either player even wore a jersey. That said, if the draft were redone today I would strongly doubt Fultz is still #1 on too many boards.

Oh, yes, how dare anyone conduct draft evaluations? The audacity of some people.

Wait, so what you're saying is it's okay to have strong convictions prior to the draft, but it's premature to have an opinion based on actual NBA footage? It's fluid, but in that fluidity it's safe to say right now, October 22, 2017, Tatum is clearly the better player, has the most longterm potential between the two (Tatum vs Fultz), and Ainge was undoubtedly correct.

Yes, I think drawing conclusions from a season of college basketball is more reasonable than from 3 games of NBA basketball. I do not believe this is a hot take.

Really? So based on that I assume you believe that despite all the evidence we have on Fultz during summer league, preseason, the 3 regular season games, the footage on his FT shooting in scrimmages, and Brown being pretty concerned about his mechanics, you would still take those 25 college games, and draft him #1. Is that correct?

Edit:
I mean Derek Bodner, Sixers beat writer, who RARELY says a negative word on team recently said something to the effect of - The Sixers traded up to draft a Rondo, without the passing, at #1.

Yes, given the information I have access to, I'd still take him #1 overall. However, I'm now open to the possibility that Danny had access to information that justified the trade. As for Bodner, you added a fair amount of your own flavor to what he actually said:

https://twitter.com/DerekBodnerNBA/status/921953346973519872
Given the info I had prior to the draft, Id take Fultz #1 all day long, but I dont think Id take him #1 now. This is a legitimate and serious issue. He has either has a serious injury he should not be playing through, or he has a serious mental problem.

That's fine. I prefer to stick to my prior evaluation for longer, but Fultz looks like a different player now (for the worse). If you think that's who he is and not the special player we saw at Washington, then I would hope you wouldn't take him #1. I'm not pretending that I'm not concerned. What Fultz has shown is terrifying, but at Washington, he was truly special, and as bad as he's been, he's still shown some of that incredible herky jerky game that made him so unstoppable. I'm giving him time, and a lot of it, before I write him off.

I was on the Fultz train prior to the trade as much as you, Max, but I had Tatum ranked 2nd behind Fultz for us, which made me a little more accepting of the trade than you I think. The only two things that worried me about Fultz were his knees (non-issue so far) and his "go with the flow"/shaky mentality, which I think is primarily responsible for his terrible shot and start to the season.

Initially, I thought we could've extracted a bit more out of Philly, but I'm completely satisfied with the trade at this point, since it seems pretty clear that Danny was going to take Tatum first all along, meaning the extra pick is just gravy for us.

So a couple questions for you, Max. First, does the mentality thing not worry you now given his shot and how he's started? Given that this was a concern of mine prior to the draft (and I think I remember you mentioning being moderately concerned about this), this is a pretty major red flag for me. Second, do you think the fact that he was playing on a terrible Washington team has any relevance to his struggles so far?  It does make you wonder if the lower expectations on a terrible team allowed him to succeed, especially given the concerns regarding his mentality,
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: nickagneta on October 22, 2017, 04:07:51 PM
Its a bit early to call Fultz a bust or a bad pick, he could still turn out to be a helluva player. That said, I don't see where he could become so,much better than Tatum, if at all better, to make up for the Celtics getting a high draft pick in return in that trade.

Tatum just looks mechanically smooth and mature beyond his years. His length and defense have been very good and he is letting the game come to him naturally. I definitely think Ainge made the right move in that trade.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: max215 on October 22, 2017, 04:18:23 PM
I think it’s best to wait until the middle of the season at least.

I agree, but that didn't stop all the strong opinions against the trade before either player even wore a jersey. That said, if the draft were redone today I would strongly doubt Fultz is still #1 on too many boards.

Oh, yes, how dare anyone conduct draft evaluations? The audacity of some people.

Wait, so what you're saying is it's okay to have strong convictions prior to the draft, but it's premature to have an opinion based on actual NBA footage? It's fluid, but in that fluidity it's safe to say right now, October 22, 2017, Tatum is clearly the better player, has the most longterm potential between the two (Tatum vs Fultz), and Ainge was undoubtedly correct.

Yes, I think drawing conclusions from a season of college basketball is more reasonable than from 3 games of NBA basketball. I do not believe this is a hot take.

Really? So based on that I assume you believe that despite all the evidence we have on Fultz during summer league, preseason, the 3 regular season games, the footage on his FT shooting in scrimmages, and Brown being pretty concerned about his mechanics, you would still take those 25 college games, and draft him #1. Is that correct?

Edit:
I mean Derek Bodner, Sixers beat writer, who RARELY says a negative word on team recently said something to the effect of - The Sixers traded up to draft a Rondo, without the passing, at #1.

Yes, given the information I have access to, I'd still take him #1 overall. However, I'm now open to the possibility that Danny had access to information that justified the trade. As for Bodner, you added a fair amount of your own flavor to what he actually said:

https://twitter.com/DerekBodnerNBA/status/921953346973519872
Given the info I had prior to the draft, Id take Fultz #1 all day long, but I dont think Id take him #1 now. This is a legitimate and serious issue. He has either has a serious injury he should not be playing through, or he has a serious mental problem.

That's fine. I prefer to stick to my prior evaluation for longer, but Fultz looks like a different player now (for the worse). If you think that's who he is and not the special player we saw at Washington, then I would hope you wouldn't take him #1. I'm not pretending that I'm not concerned. What Fultz has shown is terrifying, but at Washington, he was truly special, and as bad as he's been, he's still shown some of that incredible herky jerky game that made him so unstoppable. I'm giving him time, and a lot of it, before I write him off.

I was on the Fultz train prior to the trade as much as you, Max, but I had Tatum ranked 2nd behind Fultz for us, which made me a little more accepting of the trade than you I think. The only two things that worried me about Fultz were his knees (non-issue so far) and his "go with the flow"/shaky mentality, which I think is primarily responsible for his terrible shot and start to the season.

Initially, I thought we could've extracted a bit more out of Philly, but I'm completely satisfied with the trade at this point, since it seems pretty clear that Danny was going to take Tatum first all along, meaning the extra pick is just gravy for us.

So a couple questions for you, Max. First, does the mentality thing not worry you now given his shot and how he's started? Given that this was a concern of mine prior to the draft (and I think I remember you mentioning being moderately concerned about this), this is a pretty major red flag for me. Second, do you think the fact that he was playing on a terrible Washington team has any relevance to his struggles so far?  It does make you wonder if the lower expectations on a terrible team allowed him to succeed, especially given the concerns regarding his mentality,

1. The mentality doesn't worry me all that much for a few reasons. He doesn't need the alpha, take-over-the-game mentality on the Sixers with Embiid and Simmons there. Furthermore, we don't really know. We don't have access to him. We can't talk to him, his coaches, or his teammates. He's not an expressive guy. That doesn't mean he doesn't care.

2. Nope. He was special at Washington, just like Simmons at LSU. They had terrible talent around them (more so Fultz than Simmons) and truly awful coaching.

Ultimately, I'm as baffled as anyone by the start of Fultz's career. I almost have to believe his injury is more serious than they're letting on, because otherwise, I really can't make sense of any of this. With such a bizarre situation, I think it's prudent to wait a little longer than 3 games.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Eddie20 on October 22, 2017, 04:31:37 PM
I think it’s best to wait until the middle of the season at least.

I agree, but that didn't stop all the strong opinions against the trade before either player even wore a jersey. That said, if the draft were redone today I would strongly doubt Fultz is still #1 on too many boards.

Oh, yes, how dare anyone conduct draft evaluations? The audacity of some people.

Wait, so what you're saying is it's okay to have strong convictions prior to the draft, but it's premature to have an opinion based on actual NBA footage? It's fluid, but in that fluidity it's safe to say right now, October 22, 2017, Tatum is clearly the better player, has the most longterm potential between the two (Tatum vs Fultz), and Ainge was undoubtedly correct.

Yes, I think drawing conclusions from a season of college basketball is more reasonable than from 3 games of NBA basketball. I do not believe this is a hot take.

Really? So based on that I assume you believe that despite all the evidence we have on Fultz during summer league, preseason, the 3 regular season games, the footage on his FT shooting in scrimmages, and Brown being pretty concerned about his mechanics, you would still take those 25 college games, and draft him #1. Is that correct?

Edit:
I mean Derek Bodner, Sixers beat writer, who RARELY says a negative word on team recently said something to the effect of - The Sixers traded up to draft a Rondo, without the passing, at #1.

Yes, given the information I have access to, I'd still take him #1 overall. However, I'm now open to the possibility that Danny had access to information that justified the trade. As for Bodner, you added a fair amount of your own flavor to what he actually said:

https://twitter.com/DerekBodnerNBA/status/921953346973519872
Given the info I had prior to the draft, Id take Fultz #1 all day long, but I dont think Id take him #1 now. This is a legitimate and serious issue. He has either has a serious injury he should not be playing through, or he has a serious mental problem.

That's fine. I prefer to stick to my prior evaluation for longer, but Fultz looks like a different player now (for the worse). If you think that's who he is and not the special player we saw at Washington, then I would hope you wouldn't take him #1. I'm not pretending that I'm not concerned. What Fultz has shown is terrifying, but at Washington, he was truly special, and as bad as he's been, he's still shown some of that incredible herky jerky game that made him so unstoppable. I'm giving him time, and a lot of it, before I write him off.

I was on the Fultz train prior to the trade as much as you, Max, but I had Tatum ranked 2nd behind Fultz for us, which made me a little more accepting of the trade than you I think. The only two things that worried me about Fultz were his knees (non-issue so far) and his "go with the flow"/shaky mentality, which I think is primarily responsible for his terrible shot and start to the season.

Initially, I thought we could've extracted a bit more out of Philly, but I'm completely satisfied with the trade at this point, since it seems pretty clear that Danny was going to take Tatum first all along, meaning the extra pick is just gravy for us.

So a couple questions for you, Max. First, does the mentality thing not worry you now given his shot and how he's started? Given that this was a concern of mine prior to the draft (and I think I remember you mentioning being moderately concerned about this), this is a pretty major red flag for me. Second, do you think the fact that he was playing on a terrible Washington team has any relevance to his struggles so far?  It does make you wonder if the lower expectations on a terrible team allowed him to succeed, especially given the concerns regarding his mentality,

1. The mentality doesn't worry me all that much for a few reasons. He doesn't need the alpha, take-over-the-game mentality on the Sixers with Embiid and Simmons there. Furthermore, we don't really know. We don't have access to him. We can't talk to him, his coaches, or his teammates. He's not an expressive guy. That doesn't mean he doesn't care.

2. Nope. He was special at Washington, just like Simmons at LSU. They had terrible talent around them (more so Fultz than Simmons) and truly awful coaching.

Ultimately, I'm as baffled as anyone by the start of Fultz's career. I almost have to believe his injury is more serious than they're letting on, because otherwise, I really can't make sense of any of this. With such a bizarre situation, I think it's prudent to wait a little longer than 3 games.

Watch this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKFYft12ixA

I'm not buying the injury part. I think it's more of a mental block like Knoblauch back in the day.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: CelticsElite on October 22, 2017, 04:37:13 PM
If the draft was redone knowing how Fultz is doing now, where would Fultz be picked?

Suddenly getting someone like fox or DSJ seems Much more attractive than grabbing fultz. I could see fultz dropping anywhere from 7 to 11
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Eddie20 on October 22, 2017, 04:39:54 PM
If the draft was redone knowing how Fultz is doing now, where would Fultz be picked?

Suddenly getting someone like fox or DSJ seems Much more attractive than grabbing fultz. I could see fultz dropping anywhere from 7 to 11

Ball and Smith would likely go ahead of him and he'll be battling with Fox for the 3rd PG off the board.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: jpotter33 on October 22, 2017, 04:41:29 PM
I think it’s best to wait until the middle of the season at least.

I agree, but that didn't stop all the strong opinions against the trade before either player even wore a jersey. That said, if the draft were redone today I would strongly doubt Fultz is still #1 on too many boards.

Oh, yes, how dare anyone conduct draft evaluations? The audacity of some people.

Wait, so what you're saying is it's okay to have strong convictions prior to the draft, but it's premature to have an opinion based on actual NBA footage? It's fluid, but in that fluidity it's safe to say right now, October 22, 2017, Tatum is clearly the better player, has the most longterm potential between the two (Tatum vs Fultz), and Ainge was undoubtedly correct.

Yes, I think drawing conclusions from a season of college basketball is more reasonable than from 3 games of NBA basketball. I do not believe this is a hot take.

Really? So based on that I assume you believe that despite all the evidence we have on Fultz during summer league, preseason, the 3 regular season games, the footage on his FT shooting in scrimmages, and Brown being pretty concerned about his mechanics, you would still take those 25 college games, and draft him #1. Is that correct?

Edit:
I mean Derek Bodner, Sixers beat writer, who RARELY says a negative word on team recently said something to the effect of - The Sixers traded up to draft a Rondo, without the passing, at #1.

Yes, given the information I have access to, I'd still take him #1 overall. However, I'm now open to the possibility that Danny had access to information that justified the trade. As for Bodner, you added a fair amount of your own flavor to what he actually said:

https://twitter.com/DerekBodnerNBA/status/921953346973519872
Given the info I had prior to the draft, Id take Fultz #1 all day long, but I dont think Id take him #1 now. This is a legitimate and serious issue. He has either has a serious injury he should not be playing through, or he has a serious mental problem.

That's fine. I prefer to stick to my prior evaluation for longer, but Fultz looks like a different player now (for the worse). If you think that's who he is and not the special player we saw at Washington, then I would hope you wouldn't take him #1. I'm not pretending that I'm not concerned. What Fultz has shown is terrifying, but at Washington, he was truly special, and as bad as he's been, he's still shown some of that incredible herky jerky game that made him so unstoppable. I'm giving him time, and a lot of it, before I write him off.

I was on the Fultz train prior to the trade as much as you, Max, but I had Tatum ranked 2nd behind Fultz for us, which made me a little more accepting of the trade than you I think. The only two things that worried me about Fultz were his knees (non-issue so far) and his "go with the flow"/shaky mentality, which I think is primarily responsible for his terrible shot and start to the season.

Initially, I thought we could've extracted a bit more out of Philly, but I'm completely satisfied with the trade at this point, since it seems pretty clear that Danny was going to take Tatum first all along, meaning the extra pick is just gravy for us.

So a couple questions for you, Max. First, does the mentality thing not worry you now given his shot and how he's started? Given that this was a concern of mine prior to the draft (and I think I remember you mentioning being moderately concerned about this), this is a pretty major red flag for me. Second, do you think the fact that he was playing on a terrible Washington team has any relevance to his struggles so far?  It does make you wonder if the lower expectations on a terrible team allowed him to succeed, especially given the concerns regarding his mentality,

1. The mentality doesn't worry me all that much for a few reasons. He doesn't need the alpha, take-over-the-game mentality on the Sixers with Embiid and Simmons there. Furthermore, we don't really know. We don't have access to him. We can't talk to him, his coaches, or his teammates. He's not an expressive guy. That doesn't mean he doesn't care.

2. Nope. He was special at Washington, just like Simmons at LSU. They had terrible talent around them (more so Fultz than Simmons) and truly awful coaching.

Ultimately, I'm as baffled as anyone by the start of Fultz's career. I almost have to believe his injury is more serious than they're letting on, because otherwise, I really can't make sense of any of this. With such a bizarre situation, I think it's prudent to wait a little longer than 3 games.

I can't fathom that they'd let him play if this was really caused by an injury given the last several years, especially since pretty much the same thing happened to Embiid last year in the nationally televised Houston game and cost him the rest of the season. And if they did for whatever reason (not to p--- off fans?), that's probably an even more concerning issue.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: max215 on October 22, 2017, 04:45:52 PM
I think it’s best to wait until the middle of the season at least.

I agree, but that didn't stop all the strong opinions against the trade before either player even wore a jersey. That said, if the draft were redone today I would strongly doubt Fultz is still #1 on too many boards.

Oh, yes, how dare anyone conduct draft evaluations? The audacity of some people.

Wait, so what you're saying is it's okay to have strong convictions prior to the draft, but it's premature to have an opinion based on actual NBA footage? It's fluid, but in that fluidity it's safe to say right now, October 22, 2017, Tatum is clearly the better player, has the most longterm potential between the two (Tatum vs Fultz), and Ainge was undoubtedly correct.

Yes, I think drawing conclusions from a season of college basketball is more reasonable than from 3 games of NBA basketball. I do not believe this is a hot take.

Really? So based on that I assume you believe that despite all the evidence we have on Fultz during summer league, preseason, the 3 regular season games, the footage on his FT shooting in scrimmages, and Brown being pretty concerned about his mechanics, you would still take those 25 college games, and draft him #1. Is that correct?

Edit:
I mean Derek Bodner, Sixers beat writer, who RARELY says a negative word on team recently said something to the effect of - The Sixers traded up to draft a Rondo, without the passing, at #1.

Yes, given the information I have access to, I'd still take him #1 overall. However, I'm now open to the possibility that Danny had access to information that justified the trade. As for Bodner, you added a fair amount of your own flavor to what he actually said:

https://twitter.com/DerekBodnerNBA/status/921953346973519872
Given the info I had prior to the draft, Id take Fultz #1 all day long, but I dont think Id take him #1 now. This is a legitimate and serious issue. He has either has a serious injury he should not be playing through, or he has a serious mental problem.

That's fine. I prefer to stick to my prior evaluation for longer, but Fultz looks like a different player now (for the worse). If you think that's who he is and not the special player we saw at Washington, then I would hope you wouldn't take him #1. I'm not pretending that I'm not concerned. What Fultz has shown is terrifying, but at Washington, he was truly special, and as bad as he's been, he's still shown some of that incredible herky jerky game that made him so unstoppable. I'm giving him time, and a lot of it, before I write him off.

I was on the Fultz train prior to the trade as much as you, Max, but I had Tatum ranked 2nd behind Fultz for us, which made me a little more accepting of the trade than you I think. The only two things that worried me about Fultz were his knees (non-issue so far) and his "go with the flow"/shaky mentality, which I think is primarily responsible for his terrible shot and start to the season.

Initially, I thought we could've extracted a bit more out of Philly, but I'm completely satisfied with the trade at this point, since it seems pretty clear that Danny was going to take Tatum first all along, meaning the extra pick is just gravy for us.

So a couple questions for you, Max. First, does the mentality thing not worry you now given his shot and how he's started? Given that this was a concern of mine prior to the draft (and I think I remember you mentioning being moderately concerned about this), this is a pretty major red flag for me. Second, do you think the fact that he was playing on a terrible Washington team has any relevance to his struggles so far?  It does make you wonder if the lower expectations on a terrible team allowed him to succeed, especially given the concerns regarding his mentality,

1. The mentality doesn't worry me all that much for a few reasons. He doesn't need the alpha, take-over-the-game mentality on the Sixers with Embiid and Simmons there. Furthermore, we don't really know. We don't have access to him. We can't talk to him, his coaches, or his teammates. He's not an expressive guy. That doesn't mean he doesn't care.

2. Nope. He was special at Washington, just like Simmons at LSU. They had terrible talent around them (more so Fultz than Simmons) and truly awful coaching.

Ultimately, I'm as baffled as anyone by the start of Fultz's career. I almost have to believe his injury is more serious than they're letting on, because otherwise, I really can't make sense of any of this. With such a bizarre situation, I think it's prudent to wait a little longer than 3 games.

Watch this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKFYft12ixA

I'm not buying the injury part. I think it's more of a mental block like Knoblauch back in the day.

Certainly possible, but how do you explain the reluctance to shoot jumpers? That was his bread and butter in college.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: max215 on October 22, 2017, 04:49:14 PM
I think it’s best to wait until the middle of the season at least.

I agree, but that didn't stop all the strong opinions against the trade before either player even wore a jersey. That said, if the draft were redone today I would strongly doubt Fultz is still #1 on too many boards.

Oh, yes, how dare anyone conduct draft evaluations? The audacity of some people.

Wait, so what you're saying is it's okay to have strong convictions prior to the draft, but it's premature to have an opinion based on actual NBA footage? It's fluid, but in that fluidity it's safe to say right now, October 22, 2017, Tatum is clearly the better player, has the most longterm potential between the two (Tatum vs Fultz), and Ainge was undoubtedly correct.

Yes, I think drawing conclusions from a season of college basketball is more reasonable than from 3 games of NBA basketball. I do not believe this is a hot take.

Really? So based on that I assume you believe that despite all the evidence we have on Fultz during summer league, preseason, the 3 regular season games, the footage on his FT shooting in scrimmages, and Brown being pretty concerned about his mechanics, you would still take those 25 college games, and draft him #1. Is that correct?

Edit:
I mean Derek Bodner, Sixers beat writer, who RARELY says a negative word on team recently said something to the effect of - The Sixers traded up to draft a Rondo, without the passing, at #1.

Yes, given the information I have access to, I'd still take him #1 overall. However, I'm now open to the possibility that Danny had access to information that justified the trade. As for Bodner, you added a fair amount of your own flavor to what he actually said:

https://twitter.com/DerekBodnerNBA/status/921953346973519872
Given the info I had prior to the draft, Id take Fultz #1 all day long, but I dont think Id take him #1 now. This is a legitimate and serious issue. He has either has a serious injury he should not be playing through, or he has a serious mental problem.

That's fine. I prefer to stick to my prior evaluation for longer, but Fultz looks like a different player now (for the worse). If you think that's who he is and not the special player we saw at Washington, then I would hope you wouldn't take him #1. I'm not pretending that I'm not concerned. What Fultz has shown is terrifying, but at Washington, he was truly special, and as bad as he's been, he's still shown some of that incredible herky jerky game that made him so unstoppable. I'm giving him time, and a lot of it, before I write him off.

I was on the Fultz train prior to the trade as much as you, Max, but I had Tatum ranked 2nd behind Fultz for us, which made me a little more accepting of the trade than you I think. The only two things that worried me about Fultz were his knees (non-issue so far) and his "go with the flow"/shaky mentality, which I think is primarily responsible for his terrible shot and start to the season.

Initially, I thought we could've extracted a bit more out of Philly, but I'm completely satisfied with the trade at this point, since it seems pretty clear that Danny was going to take Tatum first all along, meaning the extra pick is just gravy for us.

So a couple questions for you, Max. First, does the mentality thing not worry you now given his shot and how he's started? Given that this was a concern of mine prior to the draft (and I think I remember you mentioning being moderately concerned about this), this is a pretty major red flag for me. Second, do you think the fact that he was playing on a terrible Washington team has any relevance to his struggles so far?  It does make you wonder if the lower expectations on a terrible team allowed him to succeed, especially given the concerns regarding his mentality,

1. The mentality doesn't worry me all that much for a few reasons. He doesn't need the alpha, take-over-the-game mentality on the Sixers with Embiid and Simmons there. Furthermore, we don't really know. We don't have access to him. We can't talk to him, his coaches, or his teammates. He's not an expressive guy. That doesn't mean he doesn't care.

2. Nope. He was special at Washington, just like Simmons at LSU. They had terrible talent around them (more so Fultz than Simmons) and truly awful coaching.

Ultimately, I'm as baffled as anyone by the start of Fultz's career. I almost have to believe his injury is more serious than they're letting on, because otherwise, I really can't make sense of any of this. With such a bizarre situation, I think it's prudent to wait a little longer than 3 games.

I can't fathom that they'd let him play if this was really caused by an injury given the last several years, especially since pretty much the same thing happened to Embiid last year in the nationally televised Houston game and cost him the rest of the season. And if they did for whatever reason (not to p--- off fans?), that's probably an even more concerning issue.

Could be a pain tolerance thing with no real danger of aggravation, but I really have no idea. Personally, I don't think he should be out there at all right now. None of what he's doing right now is helping himself or the Sixers. And frankly, I'm just searching for an explanation that makes more sense than the equivalent of Steve Blass disease.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Eddie20 on October 22, 2017, 04:56:49 PM
I think it’s best to wait until the middle of the season at least.

I agree, but that didn't stop all the strong opinions against the trade before either player even wore a jersey. That said, if the draft were redone today I would strongly doubt Fultz is still #1 on too many boards.

Oh, yes, how dare anyone conduct draft evaluations? The audacity of some people.

Wait, so what you're saying is it's okay to have strong convictions prior to the draft, but it's premature to have an opinion based on actual NBA footage? It's fluid, but in that fluidity it's safe to say right now, October 22, 2017, Tatum is clearly the better player, has the most longterm potential between the two (Tatum vs Fultz), and Ainge was undoubtedly correct.

Yes, I think drawing conclusions from a season of college basketball is more reasonable than from 3 games of NBA basketball. I do not believe this is a hot take.

Really? So based on that I assume you believe that despite all the evidence we have on Fultz during summer league, preseason, the 3 regular season games, the footage on his FT shooting in scrimmages, and Brown being pretty concerned about his mechanics, you would still take those 25 college games, and draft him #1. Is that correct?

Edit:
I mean Derek Bodner, Sixers beat writer, who RARELY says a negative word on team recently said something to the effect of - The Sixers traded up to draft a Rondo, without the passing, at #1.

Yes, given the information I have access to, I'd still take him #1 overall. However, I'm now open to the possibility that Danny had access to information that justified the trade. As for Bodner, you added a fair amount of your own flavor to what he actually said:

https://twitter.com/DerekBodnerNBA/status/921953346973519872
Given the info I had prior to the draft, Id take Fultz #1 all day long, but I dont think Id take him #1 now. This is a legitimate and serious issue. He has either has a serious injury he should not be playing through, or he has a serious mental problem.

That's fine. I prefer to stick to my prior evaluation for longer, but Fultz looks like a different player now (for the worse). If you think that's who he is and not the special player we saw at Washington, then I would hope you wouldn't take him #1. I'm not pretending that I'm not concerned. What Fultz has shown is terrifying, but at Washington, he was truly special, and as bad as he's been, he's still shown some of that incredible herky jerky game that made him so unstoppable. I'm giving him time, and a lot of it, before I write him off.

I was on the Fultz train prior to the trade as much as you, Max, but I had Tatum ranked 2nd behind Fultz for us, which made me a little more accepting of the trade than you I think. The only two things that worried me about Fultz were his knees (non-issue so far) and his "go with the flow"/shaky mentality, which I think is primarily responsible for his terrible shot and start to the season.

Initially, I thought we could've extracted a bit more out of Philly, but I'm completely satisfied with the trade at this point, since it seems pretty clear that Danny was going to take Tatum first all along, meaning the extra pick is just gravy for us.

So a couple questions for you, Max. First, does the mentality thing not worry you now given his shot and how he's started? Given that this was a concern of mine prior to the draft (and I think I remember you mentioning being moderately concerned about this), this is a pretty major red flag for me. Second, do you think the fact that he was playing on a terrible Washington team has any relevance to his struggles so far?  It does make you wonder if the lower expectations on a terrible team allowed him to succeed, especially given the concerns regarding his mentality,

1. The mentality doesn't worry me all that much for a few reasons. He doesn't need the alpha, take-over-the-game mentality on the Sixers with Embiid and Simmons there. Furthermore, we don't really know. We don't have access to him. We can't talk to him, his coaches, or his teammates. He's not an expressive guy. That doesn't mean he doesn't care.

2. Nope. He was special at Washington, just like Simmons at LSU. They had terrible talent around them (more so Fultz than Simmons) and truly awful coaching.

Ultimately, I'm as baffled as anyone by the start of Fultz's career. I almost have to believe his injury is more serious than they're letting on, because otherwise, I really can't make sense of any of this. With such a bizarre situation, I think it's prudent to wait a little longer than 3 games.

Watch this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKFYft12ixA

I'm not buying the injury part. I think it's more of a mental block like Knoblauch back in the day.

Certainly possible, but how do you explain the reluctance to shoot jumpers? That was his bread and butter in college.

Again, see Knoblauch. Fultz needs to see a sports psychologist asap.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: jpotter33 on October 22, 2017, 04:58:10 PM
I think it’s best to wait until the middle of the season at least.

I agree, but that didn't stop all the strong opinions against the trade before either player even wore a jersey. That said, if the draft were redone today I would strongly doubt Fultz is still #1 on too many boards.

Oh, yes, how dare anyone conduct draft evaluations? The audacity of some people.

Wait, so what you're saying is it's okay to have strong convictions prior to the draft, but it's premature to have an opinion based on actual NBA footage? It's fluid, but in that fluidity it's safe to say right now, October 22, 2017, Tatum is clearly the better player, has the most longterm potential between the two (Tatum vs Fultz), and Ainge was undoubtedly correct.

Yes, I think drawing conclusions from a season of college basketball is more reasonable than from 3 games of NBA basketball. I do not believe this is a hot take.

Really? So based on that I assume you believe that despite all the evidence we have on Fultz during summer league, preseason, the 3 regular season games, the footage on his FT shooting in scrimmages, and Brown being pretty concerned about his mechanics, you would still take those 25 college games, and draft him #1. Is that correct?

Edit:
I mean Derek Bodner, Sixers beat writer, who RARELY says a negative word on team recently said something to the effect of - The Sixers traded up to draft a Rondo, without the passing, at #1.

Yes, given the information I have access to, I'd still take him #1 overall. However, I'm now open to the possibility that Danny had access to information that justified the trade. As for Bodner, you added a fair amount of your own flavor to what he actually said:

https://twitter.com/DerekBodnerNBA/status/921953346973519872
Given the info I had prior to the draft, Id take Fultz #1 all day long, but I dont think Id take him #1 now. This is a legitimate and serious issue. He has either has a serious injury he should not be playing through, or he has a serious mental problem.

That's fine. I prefer to stick to my prior evaluation for longer, but Fultz looks like a different player now (for the worse). If you think that's who he is and not the special player we saw at Washington, then I would hope you wouldn't take him #1. I'm not pretending that I'm not concerned. What Fultz has shown is terrifying, but at Washington, he was truly special, and as bad as he's been, he's still shown some of that incredible herky jerky game that made him so unstoppable. I'm giving him time, and a lot of it, before I write him off.

I was on the Fultz train prior to the trade as much as you, Max, but I had Tatum ranked 2nd behind Fultz for us, which made me a little more accepting of the trade than you I think. The only two things that worried me about Fultz were his knees (non-issue so far) and his "go with the flow"/shaky mentality, which I think is primarily responsible for his terrible shot and start to the season.

Initially, I thought we could've extracted a bit more out of Philly, but I'm completely satisfied with the trade at this point, since it seems pretty clear that Danny was going to take Tatum first all along, meaning the extra pick is just gravy for us.

So a couple questions for you, Max. First, does the mentality thing not worry you now given his shot and how he's started? Given that this was a concern of mine prior to the draft (and I think I remember you mentioning being moderately concerned about this), this is a pretty major red flag for me. Second, do you think the fact that he was playing on a terrible Washington team has any relevance to his struggles so far?  It does make you wonder if the lower expectations on a terrible team allowed him to succeed, especially given the concerns regarding his mentality,

1. The mentality doesn't worry me all that much for a few reasons. He doesn't need the alpha, take-over-the-game mentality on the Sixers with Embiid and Simmons there. Furthermore, we don't really know. We don't have access to him. We can't talk to him, his coaches, or his teammates. He's not an expressive guy. That doesn't mean he doesn't care.

2. Nope. He was special at Washington, just like Simmons at LSU. They had terrible talent around them (more so Fultz than Simmons) and truly awful coaching.

Ultimately, I'm as baffled as anyone by the start of Fultz's career. I almost have to believe his injury is more serious than they're letting on, because otherwise, I really can't make sense of any of this. With such a bizarre situation, I think it's prudent to wait a little longer than 3 games.

I can't fathom that they'd let him play if this was really caused by an injury given the last several years, especially since pretty much the same thing happened to Embiid last year in the nationally televised Houston game and cost him the rest of the season. And if they did for whatever reason (not to p--- off fans?), that's probably an even more concerning issue.

Could be a pain tolerance thing with no real danger of aggravation, but I really have no idea. Personally, I don't think he should be out there at all right now. None of what he's doing right now is helping himself or the Sixers. And frankly, I'm just searching for an explanation that makes more sense than the equivalent of Steve Blass disease.

Completely agree. None of it makes any sense.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: max215 on October 22, 2017, 05:19:52 PM
I think it’s best to wait until the middle of the season at least.

I agree, but that didn't stop all the strong opinions against the trade before either player even wore a jersey. That said, if the draft were redone today I would strongly doubt Fultz is still #1 on too many boards.

Oh, yes, how dare anyone conduct draft evaluations? The audacity of some people.

Wait, so what you're saying is it's okay to have strong convictions prior to the draft, but it's premature to have an opinion based on actual NBA footage? It's fluid, but in that fluidity it's safe to say right now, October 22, 2017, Tatum is clearly the better player, has the most longterm potential between the two (Tatum vs Fultz), and Ainge was undoubtedly correct.

Yes, I think drawing conclusions from a season of college basketball is more reasonable than from 3 games of NBA basketball. I do not believe this is a hot take.

Really? So based on that I assume you believe that despite all the evidence we have on Fultz during summer league, preseason, the 3 regular season games, the footage on his FT shooting in scrimmages, and Brown being pretty concerned about his mechanics, you would still take those 25 college games, and draft him #1. Is that correct?

Edit:
I mean Derek Bodner, Sixers beat writer, who RARELY says a negative word on team recently said something to the effect of - The Sixers traded up to draft a Rondo, without the passing, at #1.

Yes, given the information I have access to, I'd still take him #1 overall. However, I'm now open to the possibility that Danny had access to information that justified the trade. As for Bodner, you added a fair amount of your own flavor to what he actually said:

https://twitter.com/DerekBodnerNBA/status/921953346973519872
Given the info I had prior to the draft, Id take Fultz #1 all day long, but I dont think Id take him #1 now. This is a legitimate and serious issue. He has either has a serious injury he should not be playing through, or he has a serious mental problem.

That's fine. I prefer to stick to my prior evaluation for longer, but Fultz looks like a different player now (for the worse). If you think that's who he is and not the special player we saw at Washington, then I would hope you wouldn't take him #1. I'm not pretending that I'm not concerned. What Fultz has shown is terrifying, but at Washington, he was truly special, and as bad as he's been, he's still shown some of that incredible herky jerky game that made him so unstoppable. I'm giving him time, and a lot of it, before I write him off.

I was on the Fultz train prior to the trade as much as you, Max, but I had Tatum ranked 2nd behind Fultz for us, which made me a little more accepting of the trade than you I think. The only two things that worried me about Fultz were his knees (non-issue so far) and his "go with the flow"/shaky mentality, which I think is primarily responsible for his terrible shot and start to the season.

Initially, I thought we could've extracted a bit more out of Philly, but I'm completely satisfied with the trade at this point, since it seems pretty clear that Danny was going to take Tatum first all along, meaning the extra pick is just gravy for us.

So a couple questions for you, Max. First, does the mentality thing not worry you now given his shot and how he's started? Given that this was a concern of mine prior to the draft (and I think I remember you mentioning being moderately concerned about this), this is a pretty major red flag for me. Second, do you think the fact that he was playing on a terrible Washington team has any relevance to his struggles so far?  It does make you wonder if the lower expectations on a terrible team allowed him to succeed, especially given the concerns regarding his mentality,

1. The mentality doesn't worry me all that much for a few reasons. He doesn't need the alpha, take-over-the-game mentality on the Sixers with Embiid and Simmons there. Furthermore, we don't really know. We don't have access to him. We can't talk to him, his coaches, or his teammates. He's not an expressive guy. That doesn't mean he doesn't care.

2. Nope. He was special at Washington, just like Simmons at LSU. They had terrible talent around them (more so Fultz than Simmons) and truly awful coaching.

Ultimately, I'm as baffled as anyone by the start of Fultz's career. I almost have to believe his injury is more serious than they're letting on, because otherwise, I really can't make sense of any of this. With such a bizarre situation, I think it's prudent to wait a little longer than 3 games.

Watch this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKFYft12ixA

I'm not buying the injury part. I think it's more of a mental block like Knoblauch back in the day.

Certainly possible, but how do you explain the reluctance to shoot jumpers? That was his bread and butter in college.

Again, see Knoblauch. Fultz needs to see a sports psychologist asap.

Probably would be a worthwhile idea.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Dino Pitino on October 22, 2017, 06:09:34 PM
Sports psychology isn't going to help Fultz. His problem is that he is stupid. Stupid like a bag of rocks. Been obvious since the "Excited to head to (City) and join the (team name)" tweet.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Ilikesports17 on October 22, 2017, 06:13:04 PM
If the draft was redone knowing how Fultz is doing now, where would Fultz be picked?

Suddenly getting someone like fox or DSJ seems Much more attractive than grabbing fultz. I could see fultz dropping anywhere from 7 to 11

Ball and Smith would likely go ahead of him and he'll be battling with Fox for the 3rd PG off the board.
you think Smith has jumped that high? no way hes over Fox
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Eddie20 on October 22, 2017, 06:30:32 PM
If the draft was redone knowing how Fultz is doing now, where would Fultz be picked?

Suddenly getting someone like fox or DSJ seems Much more attractive than grabbing fultz. I could see fultz dropping anywhere from 7 to 11

Ball and Smith would likely go ahead of him and he'll be battling with Fox for the 3rd PG off the board.
you think Smith has jumped that high? no way hes over Fox

Yeah, I absolutely do. Smith has looked sensational and now looks fully recovered from the knee injury in high school. Last year he didn't have this level of explosiveness.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Ilikesports17 on October 22, 2017, 06:44:30 PM
If the draft was redone knowing how Fultz is doing now, where would Fultz be picked?

Suddenly getting someone like fox or DSJ seems Much more attractive than grabbing fultz. I could see fultz dropping anywhere from 7 to 11

Ball and Smith would likely go ahead of him and he'll be battling with Fox for the 3rd PG off the board.
you think Smith has jumped that high? no way hes over Fox

Yeah, I absolutely do. Smith has looked sensational and now looks fully recovered from the knee injury in high school. Last year he didn't have this level of explosiveness.
idk Fox has looked great too and Smith has continued to have knee issues since being drafted.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Tr1boy on October 22, 2017, 08:13:27 PM
Great great trade by Danny

Celtics dodged a bullet by not drafting Fultz
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Erik on October 22, 2017, 08:44:39 PM
Fultz will be a bust. It was obvious to me prior to the draft. His college career proved to me that he is not a winner. If you put a legit future star on any college team, they won't finish 9-22 regardless of how bad their team is. They're playing against people whom a majority aren't even d league quality players and will have desk jobs in a few years. Scouts just saw a guy who could put moves on crappy college players and completely disregarded his ability to play as a team and make his teammates better. He is no star and he bailed on his team with fake injuries. Actually he's a perfect fit for the Sixers. His ceiling is something like JR smith. Never a star though.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: CelticsElite on October 22, 2017, 09:03:08 PM
Fultz will be a bust. It was obvious to me prior to the draft. His college career proved to me that he is not a winner. If you put a legit future star on any college team, they won't finish 9-22 regardless of how bad their team is. They're playing against people whom a majority aren't even d league quality players and will have desk jobs in a few years. Scouts just saw a guy who could put moves on crappy college players and completely disregarded his ability to play as a team and make his teammates better. He is no star and he bailed on his team with fake injuries. Actually he's a perfect fit for the Sixers. His ceiling is something like JR smith. Never a star though.
exactly.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Kuberski33 on October 22, 2017, 10:02:05 PM
Fultz will be a bust. It was obvious to me prior to the draft. His college career proved to me that he is not a winner. If you put a legit future star on any college team, they won't finish 9-22. regardless of how bad their team is. They're playing against people whom a majority aren't even d league quality players and will have desk jobs in a few years. Scouts just saw a guy who could put moves on crappy college players and completely disregarded his ability to play as a team and make his teammates better. He is no star and he bailed on his team with fake injuries. Actually he's a perfect fit for the Sixers. His ceiling is something like JR smith. Never a star though.
It's early and I don't think anyone will be able to accurately judge Fultz for at least 3 seasons - that said, what you mention always concerned me.  Doesn't matter what league you're in, a guy who can score and is supposed to be as good as he was hyped to be should get you more than than 9 wins.  But I wouldn't label him a bust just yet. His career is just starting and he was never expected to be a star on Day 1 of his NBA career. He does seem to be able to get to the basket and score or draw fouls but other parts of his game are certainly lacking big time right now.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: RockinRyA on October 22, 2017, 10:22:43 PM
Way too early to judge ANYONE to be busts.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: iadera on October 23, 2017, 01:50:10 AM
Way too early to judge ANYONE to be busts.

I agree, but still, Tatum will be better player, which is already obvious. Tatum seeks the play, wants the ball, shows activity on court, which I don't see any of from Fultz.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: CelticsElite on October 23, 2017, 01:52:12 AM
Way too early to judge ANYONE to be busts.
the sixers  are starting to have serious concerns about fultz
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: slightly biased bias fan on October 23, 2017, 02:30:53 AM
Way too early to judge ANYONE to be busts.
the sixers  are starting to have serious concerns about fultz

I agree that it's way too early, for me you should give a rookie class 3 years minimum before you have some semblance of a players identity, Fultz doesn't look like a superstar, but IMO none of this draft has that ceiling. It looks like there could be several All-Stars in the mix but the label 'bust' is all relative to your expectations.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: CelticsElite on October 23, 2017, 02:44:52 AM
Way too early to judge ANYONE to be busts.
the sixers  are starting to have serious concerns about fultz

I agree that it's way too early, for me you should give a rookie class 3 years minimum before you have some semblance of a players identity, Fultz doesn't look like a superstar, but IMO none of this draft has that ceiling. It looks like there could be several All-Stars in the mix but the label 'bust' is all relative to your expectations.
how many years did Bennett get by the Cavs?
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: slightly biased bias fan on October 23, 2017, 03:00:25 AM
Way too early to judge ANYONE to be busts.
the sixers  are starting to have serious concerns about fultz

I agree that it's way too early, for me you should give a rookie class 3 years minimum before you have some semblance of a players identity, Fultz doesn't look like a superstar, but IMO none of this draft has that ceiling. It looks like there could be several All-Stars in the mix but the label 'bust' is all relative to your expectations.
how many years did Bennett get by the Cavs?

If you look at the measurables of Bennett and some highlights of his games, he is actually ridiculously talented but either the BBIQ wasn't there or his heart, I'd guess the latter. If someone doesn't really want to be a professional and only doing it for the money than he's never going to fulfil his potential. 2013 Draft was more of an aberration given the lack of talent in that class.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Big333223 on October 23, 2017, 07:23:34 AM
Way too early to judge ANYONE to be busts.
the sixers  are starting to have serious concerns about fultz

I agree that it's way too early, for me you should give a rookie class 3 years minimum before you have some semblance of a players identity, Fultz doesn't look like a superstar, but IMO none of this draft has that ceiling. It looks like there could be several All-Stars in the mix but the label 'bust' is all relative to your expectations.
how many years did Bennett get by the Cavs?

If you look at the measurables of Bennett and some highlights of his games, he is actually ridiculously talented but either the BBIQ wasn't there or his heart, I'd guess the latter. If someone doesn't really want to be a professional and only doing it for the money than he's never going to fulfil his potential. 2013 Draft was more of an aberration given the lack of talent in that class.
I'd amend that to say the draft was an aberration based on how the talent wound up being disbursed. Mccollum at 10, Giannis at 15, Gobert at 27. And there were lots of solid rotation guys like Adams, Schroder, Dieng, Crabbe, Olynyk, Hardaway after the top ten.

Even that top ten had guys likely to be starters in the league for a long time (Oladipo, Porter, Noel, KCP) but maybe not a single all star among them. But that draft, weirdly, doesn't look quiet too bad now, from a talent standpoint.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Greyman on October 23, 2017, 07:52:27 AM
While it may take some time for the true value of Fultz and Tatum to be realised, I think Philly got stung on this deal. Despite the small sample of game time, I would much rather have Tatum than Fultz both now and for potential.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and I imagine the Philly decision makers asking themselves, why didn't we see what Danny saw? DA must have had a reason to make a deal like this. The Celtics organisation have a proven record for spotting talent (including recent moves). Sure, the Celtics had IT and Rozier and Fultz wouldn't fill an area of need, but DA had usually taken the best player available. Moreover, once it became apparent Danny didn't want Fultz, the 76ers could have let DA take his pick at one, Ball was always going to LAL and Fultz would be available at three. As much as Philly must have really wanted Fultz, Danny doesn't give him up if he doesn't have serious doubts. Maybe the ceilings of Fultz and Tatum are closer than I imagine and perhaps Fultz develops into a very special player, at the moment though I think Danny's decision looks like a winner.

I doubt Fultz is a bust but I haven't seen anything to suggest he will be a franchise player or even an all star. Tatum on the other hand has a body to grow into and he is already producing like a much more seasoned player. If the pick the Celtics picked up turns into anything or nothing, I doubt it matters, they already won by picking Tatum.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: RockinRyA on October 23, 2017, 08:17:46 AM
Way too early to judge ANYONE to be busts.
the sixers  are starting to have serious concerns about fultz

I agree that it's way too early, for me you should give a rookie class 3 years minimum before you have some semblance of a players identity, Fultz doesn't look like a superstar, but IMO none of this draft has that ceiling. It looks like there could be several All-Stars in the mix but the label 'bust' is all relative to your expectations.
how many years did Bennett get by the Cavs?

lol mr overreaction guy, yeah some guy are busts, but not all people who plays bad or doesnt shine in their first years end up becoming one. One year isnt enough to determine what a player will become. Remember, MCW was ROY, but would you take him over Giannis at this point? Heck I'd take Kelly over him.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Sketch5 on October 23, 2017, 09:09:19 AM
I think I see what may have made DA and Stevens back away from Fultz. On that FT video that had been posted in an other thread, look at his face. No focus, lack of concentration. And Body language of "I don't want to be here" all over the place. This was a knock on him, bad body language, but this really showed it.

I had jumped on the Fultz train after we got the #1 pick, but something always ate at me about him, he didn't feel right. Before that, I was liking Jackson, a lot and earlier in the year Ball, but the tourney and his dad really made me jump off that train.

Then Dicky V said something about the C's drafting Tatum at the 1 spot, so I check out is videos, and thought if the C's didn't go after Jackson, I'd really like this kid. So when they made that trade, I thought they really didn't like Fultz and wanted either Tatum or Jackson.

You can see Stevens really  asserting his style in the draft the last few years. It's either or a combo of high energy, high IQ,High Drive and High competitiveness, when it comes to who he's looking at.

I'm not sure Futlz right now has any of that.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: mef730 on October 23, 2017, 09:22:01 AM
Of course it's too early to judge Fultz.

But c'mon, we need to have a little fun around here. Without draft judgments, trade speculation or arguments about whether Marcus will ever learn to shoot, this forum wouldn't exist and I'd have to, I dunno, actually do some work or something. How distasteful.

Mike
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: droopdog7 on October 23, 2017, 09:48:58 AM
People need to pay attention.  Here is what Danny why was right.  He didn’t say that Tatum was this vastly superior prospect.  He said that in his mind, there was no huge difference between the two while most fans viewed Fultz as a mega star talent and Tatum as an after thought.

Regardless of what happened over the next ten years, can  we all agree that DA was right?  These two guys are at worst similar prospects?
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Sketch5 on October 23, 2017, 10:34:05 AM
People need to pay attention.  Here is what Danny why was right.  He didn’t say that Tatum was this vastly superior prospect.  He said that in his mind, there was no huge difference between the two while most fans viewed Fultz as a mega star talent and Tatum as an after thought.

Regardless of what happened over the next ten years, can  we all agree that DA was right?  These two guys are at worst similar prospects?

What was DA suppose to say. "Fultz sucks, Tatum is our guy"? Then burn an agent that will hold a grudge in a future deal? Him not taking Fultz says more about Fultz lacking something then all the prospects being close. Tatum must have one little thing that makes him click that Stevens and DA both liked over Fultz. I still think it's mental. How Fultz is having shooting issues, and Tatum has stepped up with a key player going down. Even in the CAVS Tatum had a poor first half, but came strong in the second. That showed something.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: jayk009 on October 23, 2017, 11:34:18 AM
this trade was amazing for us since day 1.

We got the player we wanted at 1 and also got another potential top 5 pick. I assumed it would have been a win win trade at the time but now with Fultz and his yips I am soo glad Danny didn't want Fultz.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Moranis on October 23, 2017, 11:54:26 AM
3 GAMES
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: droopdog7 on October 23, 2017, 12:32:06 PM
People need to pay attention.  Here is what Danny why was right.  He didn’t say that Tatum was this vastly superior prospect.  He said that in his mind, there was no huge difference between the two while most fans viewed Fultz as a mega star talent and Tatum as an after thought.

Regardless of what happened over the next ten years, can  we all agree that DA was right?  These two guys are at worst similar prospects?

What was DA suppose to say. "Fultz sucks, Tatum is our guy"? Then burn an agent that will hold a grudge in a future deal? Him not taking Fultz says more about Fultz lacking something then all the prospects being close. Tatum must have one little thing that makes him click that Stevens and DA both liked over Fultz. I still think it's mental. How Fultz is having shooting issues, and Tatum has stepped up with a key player going down. Even in the CAVS Tatum had a poor first half, but came strong in the second. That showed something.
And here is my point.  You're talking like Fultz was completely off the Celtic board or something.  You think that DA thought that Fultz sucked and Tatum is our guy?  He was in the minority in preferring Tatum to Fultz but I would not go that far.

Again, prior to the draft many a celtic fan was looking at fultz like a can't miss star that was clearly head and shoulders above everyone else.  DA did not see that, and in fact preferred Tatum.  I think on that, even at this early stage, DA was right.  I think the two guys are similar prospects.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: celticsclay on October 23, 2017, 02:01:03 PM
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2017/10/23/16518782/markelle-fultz-sixers-early-season-panic

This is becoming the talk of the NBA. Could be nothing for sure, but certainly happy with Tatum
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: PickNRoll on October 23, 2017, 03:11:49 PM
People need to pay attention.  Here is what Danny why was right.  He didn’t say that Tatum was this vastly superior prospect.  He said that in his mind, there was no huge difference between the two while most fans viewed Fultz as a mega star talent and Tatum as an after thought.

You have to say that, otherwise the trade is impossible.  If Danny acknowledges that (he believes) Tatum is superior, he'd have no leverage to trade down, because Philly can simply select Fultz 3rd.  Everyone knew the Lakers were taking Ball.  The only narrative that works is "there is no difference between the prospects but I can be bought with a first round pick".  Selling the media the same thing he sold the Sixers. 
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: droopdog7 on October 23, 2017, 05:00:53 PM
People need to pay attention.  Here is what Danny why was right.  He didn’t say that Tatum was this vastly superior prospect.  He said that in his mind, there was no huge difference between the two while most fans viewed Fultz as a mega star talent and Tatum as an after thought.

You have to say that, otherwise the trade is impossible.  If Danny acknowledges that (he believes) Tatum is superior, he'd have no leverage to trade down, because Philly can simply select Fultz 3rd.  Everyone knew the Lakers were taking Ball.  The only narrative that works is "there is no difference between the prospects but I can be bought with a first round pick".  Selling the media the same thing he sold the Sixers.
When the trade was made (and the uproar from Celtic fans), DA very clearly stated that he and the sixers were negotiating on common ground (that the difference between the two prospects was minimal, hence the smaller return than most celtic fans wanted).  That he preferred Tatum is not that important if the sixers preferred fultz. 

I don't believe that DA thought that Tatum was vastly superior nor do I believe that is the case now. 
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Celtics4ever on October 23, 2017, 06:06:19 PM
Quote
I don't believe that DA thought that Tatum was vastly superior nor do I believe that is the case now.

I have read several articles that stated Tatum was always Ainge's pick as the best player in the draft.

Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: saltlover on October 23, 2017, 06:15:56 PM
Quote
I don't believe that DA thought that Tatum was vastly superior nor do I believe that is the case now.

I have read several articles that stated Tatum was always Ainge's pick as the best player in the draft.

There’s a large distance between “vastly superior” and “prefers A to B”.

There were multiple accounts that the Celtics were very high on Fultz — before they even won the lottery.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Eddie20 on October 23, 2017, 06:28:20 PM
Quote
I don't believe that DA thought that Tatum was vastly superior nor do I believe that is the case now.

I have read several articles that stated Tatum was always Ainge's pick as the best player in the draft.

There’s a large distance between “vastly superior” and “prefers A to B”.

There were multiple accounts that the Celtics were very high on Fultz — before they even won the lottery.

Although, ut's logical to think that really changed after they had him in for an interview and workout. I wonder if Ainge privately thought it wasn't close between the two players with all the additional information gathered. In fact, along with Tatum, I think Jackson was probably the player the most intrigued him.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: saltlover on October 23, 2017, 06:50:04 PM
Quote
I don't believe that DA thought that Tatum was vastly superior nor do I believe that is the case now.

I have read several articles that stated Tatum was always Ainge's pick as the best player in the draft.

There’s a large distance between “vastly superior” and “prefers A to B”.

There were multiple accounts that the Celtics were very high on Fultz — before they even won the lottery.

Although, ut's logical to think that really changed after they had him in for an interview and workout. I wonder if Ainge privately thought it wasn't close between the two players with all the additional information gathered. In fact, along with Tatum, I think Jackson was probably the player the most intrigued him.

Is it though? The Sixers had Fultz in for a workout/interview, and it went well enough they said “Yes, let’s trade a valuable future pick to move up two spots.”  It must have been a very good workout.  Now, the Sixers may have known that Ainge had a preference for Tatum.  But they clearly believed Fultz was worth taking, and wouldn’t be there at #3 if they passed.  And certainly some of that came from their workout.

I personally find it difficult to believe Fultz had such a huge gap in his workouts that Ainge could view Tatum as “vastly superior” while the Sixers viewed him as worth trading #3 and an additional significant pick for.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Eddie20 on October 23, 2017, 06:58:03 PM
Quote
I don't believe that DA thought that Tatum was vastly superior nor do I believe that is the case now.

I have read several articles that stated Tatum was always Ainge's pick as the best player in the draft.

There’s a large distance between “vastly superior” and “prefers A to B”.

There were multiple accounts that the Celtics were very high on Fultz — before they even won the lottery.

Although, ut's logical to think that really changed after they had him in for an interview and workout. I wonder if Ainge privately thought it wasn't close between the two players with all the additional information gathered. In fact, along with Tatum, I think Jackson was probably the player the most intrigued him.

Is it though? The Sixers had Fultz in for a workout/interview, and it went well enough they said “Yes, let’s trade a valuable future pick to move up two spots.”  It must have been a very good workout.  Now, the Sixers may have known that Ainge had a preference for Tatum.  But they clearly believed Fultz was worth taking, and wouldn’t be there at #3 if they passed.  And certainly some of that came from their workout.

I personally find it difficult to believe Fultz had such a huge gap in his workouts that Ainge could view Tatum as “vastly superior” while the Sixers viewed him as worth trading #3 and an additional significant pick for.

I'm not sure if the Sixers were going with BPA as much as they were going with need. The thinking was probably to not stand pat at #3, to take Jackson or Tatum, when they have Saric, Covington, and Simmons all playing the 3/4. Again, they probably thought Fultz would be able to play off-ball and off Simmons and Embiid.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: BitterJim on October 23, 2017, 07:07:17 PM
Quote
I don't believe that DA thought that Tatum was vastly superior nor do I believe that is the case now.

I have read several articles that stated Tatum was always Ainge's pick as the best player in the draft.

There’s a large distance between “vastly superior” and “prefers A to B”.

There were multiple accounts that the Celtics were very high on Fultz — before they even won the lottery.

Although, ut's logical to think that really changed after they had him in for an interview and workout. I wonder if Ainge privately thought it wasn't close between the two players with all the additional information gathered. In fact, along with Tatum, I think Jackson was probably the player the most intrigued him.

Hasn't Ainge said that he doesn't put much stock into workouts, though? Seems to me that the tournament had more to do with it than workouts/interviews (and that it was Tatum taking the top spot, not Fultz losing it)
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: MattyIce on October 23, 2017, 07:09:28 PM
Quote
I don't believe that DA thought that Tatum was vastly superior nor do I believe that is the case now.

I have read several articles that stated Tatum was always Ainge's pick as the best player in the draft.

There’s a large distance between “vastly superior” and “prefers A to B”.

There were multiple accounts that the Celtics were very high on Fultz — before they even won the lottery.

Although, ut's logical to think that really changed after they had him in for an interview and workout. I wonder if Ainge privately thought it wasn't close between the two players with all the additional information gathered. In fact, along with Tatum, I think Jackson was probably the player the most intrigued him.

Is it though? The Sixers had Fultz in for a workout/interview, and it went well enough they said “Yes, let’s trade a valuable future pick to move up two spots.”  It must have been a very good workout.  Now, the Sixers may have known that Ainge had a preference for Tatum.  But they clearly believed Fultz was worth taking, and wouldn’t be there at #3 if they passed.  And certainly some of that came from their workout.

I personally find it difficult to believe Fultz had such a huge gap in his workouts that Ainge could view Tatum as “vastly superior” while the Sixers viewed him as worth trading #3 and an additional significant pick for.

correct ..at some point i'll be able to share why in FACT they passed on Fultz
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: jdz101 on October 23, 2017, 08:38:25 PM
3 GAMES

4 GAMES now where he hasn't even looked at the basket when it has come to shooting a jumpshot.

I'll keep a running total.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: RockinRyA on October 23, 2017, 09:20:12 PM
Got this from friends who are sixer fans.

Apparently he avoids shooting Js even during practice. He also avoids using his right hand during jump balls, and has been taking a lot of left handed lay ups that are available to the right hand as well.

As for playing, they say there are a few injuries that you can play on and wont make the injury worse and woyld go away on its own.



All this is too early to decide, we shouldnt gloat right away or karma can decide to screw us. From josh jackson, to ball, to fultz, to the last player in the draft. No one knows for sure who ends up being better than who.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: footey on October 23, 2017, 09:24:47 PM
He must be hurt.

Why is he even playing if that’s the case?
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: jambr380 on October 23, 2017, 09:41:15 PM
Got this from friends who are sixer fans.

Apparently he avoids shooting Js even during practice. He also avoids using his right hand during jump balls, and has been taking a lot of left handed lay ups that are available to the right hand as well.

As for playing, they say there are a few injuries that you can play on and wont make the injury worse and woyld go away on its own.

All this is too early to decide, we shouldnt gloat right away or karma can decide to screw us. From josh jackson, to ball, to fultz, to the last player in the draft. No one knows for sure who ends up being better than who.

I have no idea what the diagnosis is for Fultz, but a few years ago, I had a shoulder impingement that lasted for like a year. I was able to play basketball, but it hurt in certain situations - like aggressively putting my arm straight over my head. It only was ever aggravated when I tried to do bench press at the gym. Once I adjusted my workout and got used to it on the court, I was generally okay, but it took a while to go away and I was freaked out at first. For me, though, it was my left(off) arm, which probably made it easier.

It's possible he is just being super cautious or that he just can't take the pain when he puts his arm up, but I tend to believe it is more mental than anything else.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Eddie20 on October 23, 2017, 09:42:45 PM
Got this from friends who are sixer fans.

Apparently he avoids shooting Js even during practice. He also avoids using his right hand during jump balls, and has been taking a lot of left handed lay ups that are available to the right hand as well.

As for playing, they say there are a few injuries that you can play on and wont make the injury worse and woyld go away on its own.

All this is too early to decide, we shouldnt gloat right away or karma can decide to screw us. From josh jackson, to ball, to fultz, to the last player in the draft. No one knows for sure who ends up being better than who.

Untrue. The video below covers that at 4:50 mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKFYft12ixA
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: Bobshot on October 23, 2017, 10:21:11 PM
Simmons seems to be the PG. Maybe Fultz is hurt, but he's marginal right now. You have to wonder why they traded for him if Simmons was going to have the ball.
Title: Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
Post by: jdz101 on October 23, 2017, 10:50:08 PM
He must be hurt.

Why is he even playing if that’s the case?

When have the sixers ever been afraid of holding a player out if they're injured?

Look at the embiid minutes restriction. Simmons missed a year.

I agree that he would not be playing if it was a significant injury or even a niggle.