CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: CELTICSofBOSTON on June 07, 2017, 05:54:46 PM
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This year it was a pleasure to watch Jaylen Brown play. His glimpses and flashes of potential got me really excited about the future.
This current Celtics team is fun to watch, but without any major moves, we probably aren't going to contend any time soon. But that's okay, I love watching our young guys play. Even watching Terry Rozier play a huge part in our playoff run was very exciting.
I took a quick look at our list of young players and realized how much fun I will have watching our young guys develop. All while we probably get close to 55-60 wins! Definitely not a bad place to be.
So how would you rank our young guys as far as their potential?
Here is my list:
1. Markelle Fultz- obviously he is not on our team yet but it's pretty much a sure thing that he ends up on the Celtics. Can't wait to watch him next year! He is a perfect guard prospect without any red flags or noticeable flaws. He can handle, shoot from anywhere especially off the dribble, and is also a great passer. His level of creativity offensively is off the charts and I think it is what makes him a top 3 guard prospect of the decade so far ! He is also a good athlete and seems like someone who is easy to root for given his story and character. I think he has superstar potential and as Adam Vecine said on a recent podcast: his worst case scenario is that he is only a top 20 offensive player in the world!
2. Jaylen Brown- I wasn't on this board at the time but he was the guy I wanted to take in the draft last year. Every once in a while he makes a play that makes you go "wow." I knew he was good but he blew me away this past season. Obviously his numbers weren't great and his performances were inconsistent but he showed glimpses of the TOTAL package! You name it: three point shooting is good (not great), man defense looked solid, he even showed glimpses of go-to scoring potential which really surprised the heck out of me. I love his athleticism and footwork and size/body. His handle is a bit loose so he is not always able to display his creativity and passing (which he was praised for in HS) but he can be a 20 ppg guy one day. He has to improve his team defense but he got better as the year went on. Overall he was a pleasant surprise especially his shooting and ability to be on the floor in the playoffs as a rookie. We even ran plays for a 20 year old in the post ! And he did well in those situations. I think he can start as soon as next year. He is already in the gym working on his game this summer. All this and I haven't even touched on his character and commitment to excellence!
3. Guerchon Yabusele- I assume that Ante Zizic will be here for most people at number 3 but there is something so unique and interesting about his game. I think he is going to be a very good offensive player. I am a bit concerned with his defense (mostly because I don't know how good it is) and also him staying in shape. He is ripped but has the type of body that can get out of shape quickly hopefully he does what he is supposed to unlike our pal Sully. Anyways I am not sure if he makes the team or not, let alone carve out a role but I am very excited to see what he can do in the NBA. He has really good handles, footwork, and body control for such a large human being. He overall has great offensive instincts along with the ability to legitimately space the floor. I think he can become our future stretch four and provide a whole lot more than that eventually. I'm excited to see the Dancing Bear play!
4. Terry Rozier- Terry Rozier can be a great sixth man type volume scorer. He has a couple of flaws that get on my nerves- lack of aggressiveness offensively, and his tendency to finger roll easy layups and blow them. He is a good three point shooter as well which I think is underrated. Whenever he shoots I believe that the shot will go in. The eye test also showed me that he was good defensively as well. He needs to improve his point guard skills and stop over dribbling but I think he has a shot to be a legit player in this league. I'm excited to see how much he can improve next year. He was CLUTCH in the playoffs too! I love the toughness and offensive talent. Needs to put it all together, watch some film, and start making simple layups .
5. Ante Zizic- I think he is going to be very solid player and potential starter in the NBA. He is a fantastic screen setter and has a certain toughness to his game. Very fluid and coordinated athlete as well. Hopefully he can become a Marcin Gortat type which I think his ceiling is. His defense is good according to scouting reports and to his coach David Blatt. Offensively he has good hands and has exceptional timing on his rolls. Doesn't strike me as much of a rim protector and has only a small sample size of mid range jumpers but his free throw shooting is superb for a young big. If he becomes a good mid range shooter... woah! Move him up to number 2. Lol. Overall very solid prospect and I think he has a high floor and has potential to be a high end starter if he can shoot.
6. Marcus Smart- I love Marcus Smart! The things he can do on the basketball court are amazing and the way he impacts the game with pure hustle is so impressive. He's just not that exciting. Nothing pretty or fancy about Marcus' game but I think he is an extremely valuable player. Hope we keep him around.
7. Abdel Nader- to me he looks like a sure fire NBA player. He has good handle (played some point forward in Maine) and solid size 6'6" with super long arms. He also is a good athlete with good instincts on the offensive end . Has a pretty jump shot which he shoots at a decent clip. I am 100% confident that Nader will be an NBA player. Defense doesn't look great but I am confident that he is smart enough to figure it out.
James Young, Jordan Mickey, Demetrius Jackson are bleh
Bonus Round:
Here are some youngs I would like in the future:
1. Deandre Ayton- size off the charts, coordination off the charts.. monster potential
2. Mo Bamba- size even more off the charts and seems like a high IQ high character kid
3. Michael Porter Jr.- a lot like Ben Simmons but probably not as good a passer and definitely a better shooter.. modern NBA forward
Here are some second round prospects I like for the 2017 NBA draft:
1. Semi Ojele- Jae Crowder type but more athletic, can really shoot it
2. OG Annoby- monster defensive potential, good athlete
3. Jonathan Jeanne- Rudy Gilbert type plus I hear he can really shoot..not a bad draft and stash option
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Stars
1. Fultz, Im drinking all that koolaid
2. Brown, think he can be a Jimmy Butler level player
Starters/high level bench guys
3. zizic
4. Smart
5. Rozier
0 expectations of even impacting the Celtics in a meaningful way
6. Everyone else including Yabu
For the bonus round. The whole top 4 from next year sounds really good and I like OG Anunoby a lot as well.
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I am excited about most of the players mentioned except Yabusele. I think that was a wasted pick. I don't see him developing into an NBA player.
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Rozier shot 31.8 3P% during the regular season. Hardly a good 3PT shooter.
I am excited about Fultz but I doubt he'll be a franchise player. Somewhat excited about Brown and Zizic. As for the rest, I'm not excited at all.
As for next year besides the top 4, I really like Robert Williams and to a lesser extent Miles Bridges. Surprised both of them decide to return for their sophomore season.
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I am excited about most of the players mentioned except Yabusele. I think that was a wasted pick. I don't see him developing into an NBA player.
I definitely think he has relatively high bust potential but I'm excited to see if his game will translate in the NBA. Scouting report from Fran Frashilla say he is a good three point shooter. If that's true I think he could be a good player.
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Rozier shot 31.8 3P% during the regular season. Hardly a good 3PT shooter.
I am excited about Fultz but I doubt he'll be a franchise player. Somewhat excited about Brown and Zizic. As for the rest, I'm not excited at all.
As for next year besides the top 4, I really like Robert Williams and to a lesser extent Miles Bridges. Surprised both of them decide to return for their sophomore season.
Wow that three point percentage is lower than I thought. Not sure if anyone can relate but certain players, when they shoot, give you a sense of confidence that the shot will go in regardless of how good of a shooter they are. For example I always think Kelly Olynyk is going to miss when he shoots. It's weird and It's kind of hard to explain. Let me just say I was wrong and Terry sucks at shooting lol.
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I think the FIRST meaningful minutes Rozier got this season was in the playoffs where I think he shot the 3 pretty good. During the season I think he played a lot of garbage time which is difficult to measure in effectiveness IMO.
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I'm very excited. The short term NBA is all Golden State from the looks of it. Obviously anything can happen, but we look to have a great start to a young core.
Brown, Fultz(?), and a potential high Nets pick in 2018 could be a real sweet trio over the next decade. Exciting to think about.
I also think those young guys can contribute off the bench in spot minutes and learn that way, so that is exciting too!
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I'm very excited by Fultz, and I love Brown's potential. Jaylen is by no means a sure thing, though.
Zizic is probably third on my list. I see a lot of Pekovic in him, hopefully minus the injuries.
My guess is that Marcus is who he is at this point: great defender, good teammate, lousy shooter and finisher.
My guess is that Rozier, Yabu and Nader will be fringe rotation players.
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Putting Marcus at 6th is flat out disrespectful.
1. Fultz
2. Brown
3. Smart
And then a very large gap based on personal preference.
Personally: 4. Yabusele
5/6. Zizic Rozier
& then Nader isnt on the list.
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Additionally, how would our group of young guys (plus Fultz) stack up against other teams as far as all players under the age of 24? Would we be top 5 in an under 24 league ?
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Superstar:
1. Markelle Fultz
Star:
2. Jaylen Brown
Starter:
3. Terry Rozier
4. Ante Zizic
Role player:
5. Demetrius Jackson
6. Marcus Smart
7. Abdel Nader
Bench or worse:
8. Jordan Mickey
9. Guerschon Yabusele
Side note: if we could pick up Anunoby as a 2nd round pick that would be amazing (not happening)
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1. Fultz. He has a special combination of body control/shiftiness and natural basketball instincts to go along with great size for a PG. I'm concerned that he will take time to develop NBA 3pt range, but it's easy to see him as an MVP candidate one day.
2. Smart. His defensive goodness more than offsets his offensive badness. Given his progress in every area except shooting, and given his improved FT% over a large sample, it still seems likely that he will develop into a competent offensive player. If that happens, he'll be a star.
3. Zizic. It's hard to see Zizic ever being a star, as he's a non-rim-protecting center who doesn't shoot 3's. But I'm excited for him to come in and contribute 4 years of solid production on a rookie scale deal.
4. Brown. Jaylen has a lot of fans on this forum, but I remain concerned about his development. He wasn't good this year, even for a rookie, and he wasn't good in college, either. I'm rooting for him and he still has upside, but Jaylen seems more likely to become Jeff Green than to become Jimmy Butler.
5. Yabusele. Guershon hasn't been lighting China on fire, and there's a reason he was projected as a mid-second rounder before Ainge took him at 16. But he has a pretty unique physical profile, so maybe he has unexpected upside.
6. Nader. This is where the dregs begin. Nader will have an illustrious career for the Red Claws.
7. Rozier. He just seems bad on both ends. His TS% is worse than Smart's (44% vs 48%), and on defense he makes mistakes all the time.
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I think Fultz has superstar potential.
Jaylen has all-star potential.
Zizic starter potential.
Rozier I really like and can see him as a sixth-man potential.
I really wish Smart would be just half as good on offense as he is at defense. He's an all-world defender. If he can improve his jumper to just be mediocre and finish a little better, he'd be a quality starter.
Yabu I don't know much about but he's got a big body on him and looks like he has a unique skill set. I don't expect much from him but sometimes those stashes pay dividends down the road.
Young (the only dud of the Nets trade), Nader, Mickey, Johnson I don't really expect to see play meaningful games for us, if even on roster in a few weeks.
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Superstar:
1. Markelle Fultz
Star:
2. Jaylen Brown
Starter:
3. Terry Rozier
4. Ante Zizic
Role player:
5. Demetrius Jackson
6. Marcus Smart
7. Abdel Nader
Bench or worse:
8. Jordan Mickey
9. Guerschon Yabusele
Side note: if we could pick up Anunoby as a 2nd round pick that would be amazing (not happening)
Now that is disrespectful. You sandwiched Marcus Smart in between Jackson and nader? Seriously dude. Smart is a GREAT defender and he is a player with it on the line. He is tough, hard nosed and humble. You put him below Jackson?? C'mon man.
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Superstar:
1. Markelle Fultz
Star:
2. Jaylen Brown
Starter:
3. Terry Rozier
4. Ante Zizic
Role player:
5. Demetrius Jackson
6. Marcus Smart
7. Abdel Nader
Bench or worse:
8. Jordan Mickey
9. Guerschon Yabusele
Side note: if we could pick up Anunoby as a 2nd round pick that would be amazing (not happening)
I think you're right about OG. I didn't think Anunoby would be available that late either but NBADraft.net has them going 37th in this draft. I doubt it personally but we have enough to move up if need be.
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1. Fultz. He has a special combination of body control/shiftiness and natural basketball instincts to go along with great size for a PG. I'm concerned that he will take time to develop NBA 3pt range, but it's easy to see him as an MVP candidate one day.
2. Smart. His defensive goodness more than offsets his offensive badness. Given his progress in every area except shooting, and given his improved FT% over a large sample, it still seems likely that he will develop into a competent offensive player. If that happens, he'll be a star.
3. Zizic. It's hard to see Zizic ever being a star, as he's a non-rim-protecting center who doesn't shoot 3's. But I'm excited for him to come in and contribute 4 years of solid production on a rookie scale deal.
4. Brown. Jaylen has a lot of fans on this forum, but I remain concerned about his development. He wasn't good this year, even for a rookie, and he wasn't good in college, either. I'm rooting for him and he still has upside, but Jaylen seems more likely to become Jeff Green than to become Jimmy Butler.
5. Yabusele. Guershon hasn't been lighting China on fire, and there's a reason he was projected as a mid-second rounder before Ainge took him at 16. But he has a pretty unique physical profile, so maybe he has unexpected upside.
6. Nader. This is where the dregs begin. Nader will have an illustrious career for the Red Claws.
7. Rozier. He just seems bad on both ends. His TS% is worse than Smart's (44% vs 48%), and on defense he makes mistakes all the time.
Wow very bold statement about Markelle one day being an MVP candidate. I love bold statements and I hope you are right ;D. TP.
Edit: I now realize that my response kinda sounds sarcastic. That is not my intention at all.
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Sometimes I think Yabu was chosen because he was stashable without too much of a problem. We simply had no room on the roster with Brown being so highly regarded. And yes...IMO Brown will be a borderline all-star in a few years.
Fultz is the player I'm excited about. This draft in general is considered a very deep, strong draft, and it's considered to be a talented point guard draft to boot. Very seldom has Markelle not been considered the number one pick.
That is quite impressive.
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I won't rank guys who I haven't seen play one minute in the NBA. But yeah, there's reason to be excited.
I predicted Brown to be a stud on draft night and we (at least most of us) saw why. Any comparisons with a guy like Jeff Green are lazy and inaccurate. Brown shot better in his rookie season than Green has in his entire career. In fact, Browns' splits of 50%/34% has never been reached by Green in any season in his career. He's simply a better player all the way around, has a better head on his shoulders, is more driven and in a better situation. I'm really eager to see him break out this coming season and I have few doubts it will happen.
Smart's been a key player for a top 4 team. His shooting woes are becoming a thing of legend but he's also a key defensive cog and he makes winning plays. I hope Brad locks him in a half court gym and makes him shoot 1000 15 foot jumpers. With a 80% FT rate you'd think some of these shots would go in at some point. If they do, he's a stud. If not, he's a role player. Usually guys who have 3 years under their belt are who they are in the NBA. But there are guys who buck that trend all the time and maybe Smart is that guy.
Terry Rozier showed he can play in the NBA. The much-derided pick could actually be something special if the game ever slows down for him. He's still trying to force things and over-dribbles. I'm not as high on TR as some here but the potential is still intriguing.
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Then there are the guys we haven't seen on the court yet.
I've been high on Zizic since draft night and he's only improved his stock. I don't expect him to be an All-Star. I do expect him to be a guy who plays in the NBA for 10-15 years who starts most games and is well-regarded among those in the know. The one thing that I think he'll bring is a bit of nasty to our front court - Ty Zeller with attitude would suit me fine.
Yabu is going to be behind from his injury and that worries me. A 6-8 man who can shoot from outside and is a load coming down the lane isn't anything to scoff at.
Nader really impressed for the Red Claws. I can't imagine him doing much in the NBA. Guys that are almost 24 years old who played in the D League don't much matter. But guys with his size, incredible wingspan, who can shoot 35% from 3....these guys don't necessarily grow on trees. Is he Crowder, Part II? If he can play defense then their skill sets may overlap and then Crowder becomes even more expendable. It'll be interesting to see once he hits camp this year.
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Finally there are the guys who aren't on the team yet.
A true stud. Future All-Pro. A cornerstone player. That's Fultz. There's not a box that he doesn't tick. They're always a chance that a guy busts due to injury, attitude or some other unforeseen circumstance but it's hard to bet against a true Blue Chip prospect like Fultz.
Another potential Blue Chipper. A top 5 pick in what looks like a big man draft? Count me in with another top 5 pick in 2018 courtesy of Brooklyn.
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Superstar:
1. Markelle Fultz
Star:
2. Jaylen Brown
Starter:
3. Terry Rozier
4. Ante Zizic
Role player:
5. Demetrius Jackson
6. Marcus Smart
7. Abdel Nader
Bench or worse:
8. Jordan Mickey
9. Guerschon Yabusele
Side note: if we could pick up Anunoby as a 2nd round pick that would be amazing (not happening)
Sandwiching Marcus Smart between Demetrius Jackson and Abdel Nader is massively underrating Marcus, massively overrating Nader and Jackson or both.
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Sometimes I think Yabu was chosen because he was stashable without too much of a problem. We simply had no room on the roster with Brown being so highly regarded. And yes...IMO Brown will be a borderline all-star in a few years.
Fultz is the player I'm excited about. This draft in general is considered a very deep, strong draft, and it's considered to be a talented point guard draft to boot. Very seldom has Markelle not been considered the number one pick.
That is quite impressive.
I thought the same thing until we took Zizic 7 picks later. Ainge clearly had Yabu ranked ahead of Zizic (or thought others did), or he would have taken Zizic at #16.
If Danny really felt he needed a stash at that pick and Yabu was considered a second round talent, he would have just taken Zizic at #16. Yes, mocks had Yabu in the second round last year, but they were so far off from the actual draft order that they aren't a very good reference
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I believe I am currently most excited about Brown.
Something about him makes me think he will be better then Fultz.
I love his mentality and work ethic. I love that since day one on draft night Brown said he wanted to be an all-time great.
Does anyone here follow his instagram? He's been working very hard since ECF.
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very
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3 young guys who matter to this team:
1. Fultz
2. Jaylen
3. Smart
I hope jaylen develops the way a lot of us are envisioning him to be. And I hope Marcus finds consistency with that new shot form he was figuring out last year. Fultz seems like the surest of the 3, as odd as that seems.
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Love the potential of our young guys assuming we add Fultz. Don't know much about him but I'll be happy to make predictions after summer league lol.
Brown had a typical rookie season, ups and downs. The ups looked amazing so lets hope it goes more that way next year which I believe it will. With his body and some of his fall away jump shots (which need work) he reminds me of Reggie Lewis, much better athlete though.
Smart is losing luster to me. His offense is so limited in a league that needs scoring from everyone he just doesn't cut it. Next year will be his 4th :-[.
Rozier will have to make a jump to become a rotational guy, he looks nervous bringing the ball up the court still. Not a good sign from a 6"1' guy.
Zizic I'm excited to see because we need someone that brings the game people are talking he has.
Yabu is off my radar but I hope he's good!
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I honestly believe that Zizic will be starting by midseason and Fultz will be in the discussion for 6th man of the year
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Sometimes I think Yabu was chosen because he was stashable without too much of a problem. We simply had no room on the roster with Brown being so highly regarded. And yes...IMO Brown will be a borderline all-star in a few years.
Fultz is the player I'm excited about. This draft in general is considered a very deep, strong draft, and it's considered to be a talented point guard draft to boot. Very seldom has Markelle not been considered the number one pick.
That is quite impressive.
At 16 when there plenty of other foreign guys including Zizic? Actually I think the Celtics see something potentially very intriguing by this guy. Being able to keep him abroad may have been a factor, but not the reason.
I'm surprised at the low level of expectations most have for Yabesele. I think he has an NBA body and great shooting touch. I think he is going to surprise a lot of folks.
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1. Fultz - assuming we pick him, of course. Complete offensive skillset, with the length and athleticism to eventually be a good defender as well. Scoring guard in a scoring guard's league. Future star.
2. Brown - still raw, but I like his tools. Athletic and aggressive. Jumpshot is coming along, and he seemed to improve as a finisher late in the year. High ceiling.
3. Smart - very good defender, though I do think Celtics fans overrate him. Very difficult to evaluate as an asset, but his ability to impact the game is undeniable. Ultimately I think he needs to improve his offense a lot to stay with this team past his current contract.
4. Zizic - physical interior presence that we need. No star potential, but I think his skillset is something we need.
5. Rozier - considered moving him up due to his playoff performance. With our upcoming salary crunch, I think he could be very effective as a cost-controlled backup guard. A solid asset.
6. Yabu - a wild card. Intriguing physical profile and skillset. Not sure how his game will translate to a much higher level of play.
Young, Mickey, Jackson, Nader - any contribution from these guys would be a surprise at this point.
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This year it was a pleasure to watch Jaylen Brown play. His glimpses and flashes of potential got me really excited about the future.
This current Celtics team is fun to watch, but without any major moves, we probably aren't going to contend any time soon. But that's okay, I love watching our young guys play. Even watching Terry Rozier play a huge part in our playoff run was very exciting.
I took a quick look at our list of young players and realized how much fun I will have watching our young guys develop. All while we probably get close to 55-60 wins! Definitely not a bad place to be.
So how would you rank our young guys as far as their potential?
Here is my list:
1. Markelle Fultz- obviously he is not on our team yet but it's pretty much a sure thing that he ends up on the Celtics. Can't wait to watch him next year! He is a perfect guard prospect without any red flags or noticeable flaws. He can handle, shoot from anywhere especially off the dribble, and is also a great passer. His level of creativity offensively is off the charts and I think it is what makes him a top 3 guard prospect of the decade so far ! He is also a good athlete and seems like someone who is easy to root for given his story and character. I think he has superstar potential and as Adam Vecine said on a recent podcast: his worst case scenario is that he is only a top 20 offensive player in the world!
I'm not sure that there's ever been a prospect without any red flags or noticeable flaws, and Fultz is no different in that regard, imo.
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Yabu I don't know much about but he's got a big body DONK on him and looks like he has a unique skill set. I don't expect much from him but sometimes those stashes pay dividends down the road.
#BackItUpLikeATonkaTruck ;D
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I am very excited. I think that we have such a big group of young players who all have lots of potential that they will play a big part in the future or important trades. I am confident Fultz, if taken, will be special. Brown has the potential to sell a lot of shirts. Zizic is the one I really hope comes up good (I have confidence Fultz and Brown will) as it will cover an area of need. If he is good enough to force Stevens to give him good minutes next season I will be very happy.
Smart is an enigma for me until he consistently hits his shots, then he could be a part of a championship team. Rozier has great potential but if Fultz comes how much time will he get as a Celtic?
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3. Jonathan Jeanne- Rudy Gilbert type plus I hear he can really shoot..not a bad draft and stash option
Really sad news about one of the guys I was hoping we picked in the second round. Shams is reporting that he has been diagnosed with a potentially career-ending heart condition.
Prayers go out to Jonathan Jeanne and his family. Hopefully he is able to recover and has himself an NBA career. He has a ton of potential.
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I don't see an elite scorer, shot creator, or shooter in any of our young guys. Fultz has the potential, but we would have to waste Thomas and Horford's prime when he's such a great asset.
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I don't see an elite scorer, shot creator, or shooter in any of our young guys. Fultz has the potential, but we would have to waste Thomas and Horford's prime when he's such a great asset.
That's weird...you don't see an elite scorer, shot creator or shooter but you think Fultz has the potential. Also Brown can be a Butleresque player if he develops
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I don't see Yabusele as a high energy guy. I see a lot of Sully& BBD in him...that's only good for a few years of spot duty.
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Fultz- beyond excited
Brown- fairly optimistic
Zizic- looking forward to seeing what he can do
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Holy cow. Times have changed so much.
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1. Markelle Fultz- obviously he is not on our team yet but it's pretty much a sure thing that he ends up on the Celtics. Can't wait to watch him next year! He is a perfect guard prospect without any red flags or noticeable flaws.
You may have reconsidered your viewpoint on this guy. ;D
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Be careful guys. We don't allow for I told you so type posts, man what were you thinking type posts, etc. and this thread has that potential.