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Other Discussions => Off Topic => Current Events / Political Discussion => Topic started by: Roy H. on May 09, 2017, 05:53:49 PM

Title: James Comey fired
Post by: Roy H. on May 09, 2017, 05:53:49 PM
This must make Democrats and Republican equally happy.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: feckless on May 09, 2017, 06:07:45 PM
I agree Roy I cannot see anyone on either side being upset by this.

His place in history is sealed.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: blink on May 09, 2017, 06:19:22 PM
I am actually not happy.  For all his mis-handling of the Clinton email issue, he didn't seem partisan and actually seemed like he was trying to do his job with the Russia investigation.  On the surface this smells like Trump firing the guy that is investigating him.  Maybe that isn't a correct take on it but it is hard not to come away thinking this is to road block the FBI Russia investigation.

I am shocked and not shocked at the same time.  With Jeff Sessions as the leader of the justice department nothing will really shock me.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Bostonborn62 on May 09, 2017, 06:52:26 PM
He deserved to be fired. Should have happened on day 1.
Hillary,Huma,Wiener,Rice etc.. will all be in trouble if the next person up does their job as they should. Lots of laws were broken, he just didn't have the berries to do his job OR they had something on him. IMO
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Phantom255x on May 09, 2017, 07:00:44 PM
I'm happy, but the timing is pretty predictable.

Russia investigation going on and suddenly Comey gets fired. Nope, no correlation clearly...

Last time a similar thing happened with Nixon, we all know how that turned out.

Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: byennie on May 09, 2017, 07:08:35 PM
Forest from the trees, folks.

Comey made plenty of mistakes, but he's the director of the FBI investigating POTUS for collusion with Russia. He was terminated abruptly by the President after potentially damaging testimony. This is a deadly serious power grab by the Trump administration.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: fairweatherfan on May 09, 2017, 07:21:06 PM
Trump continues to press gamely down the "Nixon, but dumber and on fast forward" lane.  Nobody should feel sorry for Comey after how badly he butchered the Clinton investigation but anyone who doesn't see the clear link toward trying to control and squelch the Russia investigation is fooling themselves.


The Times reports from WH officials (https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/05/09/us/politics/comey-trump-fbi-live.html?smid=tw-share&referer=https://t.co/jmihYkOaoe) that the WH and DOJ have been planning to fire Comey since last week, but there was a delay while Jeff Sessions came up with reasons to do it. Roll that one around in your mind for awhile.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: hwangjini_1 on May 09, 2017, 07:55:57 PM
Gone is democracy from the US. The start of fascism. A goon can remove anyone who investigates his possible wrong doing. the media rolls over. The ruling party puts party over nation.

Once the idiot-in-chief realizes he can do anything without consequences, he will. And who will stand up and oppose him?

What separates the US from a banana republic, wherein the ruler installs his family, profits off government policy, and collides with the rich to become richer? Opposition is squelched and the media marches in step.

Investigation of possible crimes by the ruler?  Off with their heads.

Basically, the legitimacy of the US as a semi-functional democratic entity is now dependent on the Democratic Party turning out voters in a mid-term election.

Christ save us all.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: mqtcelticsfan on May 09, 2017, 08:03:14 PM
I'm certainly not upset about Comey getting fired, but it's pretty concerning that the President can fire the person leading an investigation against him and replace him with someone who likely won't do so. Republicans need to see past party lines and start an independent investigation.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Celtics4ever on May 09, 2017, 08:08:40 PM
Quote
Gone is democracy from the US. The start of fascism. A goon can remove anyone who investigates his possible wrong doing. the media rolls over. The ruling party puts party over nation.

I hardly think the media has been rolling over, they have been in attack mode on Trump for some time, at least most of them.   Both parties have been putting party over nation for a long time.  Compromise is a bad word and extremes are the best it should not be that way.

I think we have a long ways to go before Trump is a tyrant.   I know some of the defense peeps are at odds with him at present.   But then again, they may be the next to go.

Quote
Basically, the legitimacy of the US as a semi-functional democratic entity is now dependent on the Democratic Party turning out voters in a mid-term election.

Christ save us all.
 

I agree that is long odds and to be honest some of their antics do not sit well with me.  Their chanting "NA NA Goodbye"  is juvenile if not more than anything Pres. Trump does.  All the people are rallies shouting over people does not sit well with me no matter who does it.

I would worry more about what you fear if we get in a couple of wars.   Then there could be a major power grab by the administration and I am not talking war with North Korea, assuming China does not intervene.

Checks and balances, the judicial branch has been doing it's job.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Neurotic Guy on May 09, 2017, 08:23:31 PM
Gone is democracy from the US. The start of fascism. A goon can remove anyone who investigates his possible wrong doing. the media rolls over. The ruling party puts party over nation.

Once the idiot-in-chief realizes he can do anything without consequences, he will. And who will stand up and oppose him?

What separates the US from a banana republic, wherein the ruler installs his family, profits off government policy, and collides with the rich to become richer? Opposition is squelched and the media marches in step.

Investigation of possible crimes by the ruler?  Off with their heads.

Basically, the legitimacy of the US as a semi-functional democratic entity is now dependent on the Democratic Party turning out voters in a mid-term election.

Christ save us all.

Latest in a string of ugly moves by POTUS but I won't go dowm the fascism road.  I think he is less evil or ideological zealot than he is an immature, thin-skinned and impulsive man with far more power than he should have.  There are still some level heads in the administration - other than Bannon there is no Geobals in the WH. 

 Dems and Independents need to unify to give congress back to the democrats in 2018.   Dems need to take a deep breath amd locate an articulate moderate who can lead the party. And someone like John Kasich should start his 2020 campaign for the republican nomination ASAP.    Democracy is alive -- in 18 months this turns around

 
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Ilikesports17 on May 09, 2017, 08:28:50 PM
Gone is democracy from the US. The start of fascism. A goon can remove anyone who investigates his possible wrong doing. the media rolls over. The ruling party puts party over nation.

Once the idiot-in-chief realizes he can do anything without consequences, he will. And who will stand up and oppose him?

What separates the US from a banana republic, wherein the ruler installs his family, profits off government policy, and collides with the rich to become richer? Opposition is squelched and the media marches in step.

Investigation of possible crimes by the ruler?  Off with their heads.

Basically, the legitimacy of the US as a semi-functional democratic entity is now dependent on the Democratic Party turning out voters in a mid-term election.

Christ save us all.
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/overreaction
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: slamtheking on May 09, 2017, 08:30:29 PM
surprised but not undeserved.  my take on it is this has more to do with sabotaging/damaging the Russia investigation than his questionable leadership
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: fairweatherfan on May 09, 2017, 09:22:10 PM
And another shoe drops as news breaks that grand juries had just issued subpoenas in the Flynn-Russia investigation.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/09/politics/grand-jury-fbi-russia/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/09/politics/grand-jury-fbi-russia/index.html)

The other other shoe here is that people in the intelligence community are going to start leaking details like crazy to get ahead of the inevitable attempt to bury this.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: littleteapot on May 09, 2017, 09:38:22 PM
The most obvious reason for Trump to do this is to appoint an FBI director who won't investigate him seriously.

I would guess Republicans in congress have already made it clear to Trump what he could do that would basically force their hand to push for impeachment. Either they were always OK with this or he is trying to call their bluff. Sessions reportedly recommended this, which either means that the rest of the Republicans are fine with it or Trump misinterpreted Sessions as speaking for more people than himself.

Even if Trump gets an FBI director who won't seriously investigate him out of this, he may get killed by leaks since this probably p---es off the intel community.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Vermont Green on May 09, 2017, 09:48:19 PM
surprised but not undeserved.  my take on it is this has more to do with sabotaging/damaging the Russia investigation than his questionable leadership

Ya think?

Comey did botch the whole Hillary thing but I believe he was going to right his legacy by doing a fair investigation of the Russia connection.  Raise your hand if you think Trump wants a fair investigation.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Emmette Bryant on May 09, 2017, 09:53:39 PM
One of the lessons of Watergate is that it's not the illegal act that gets you in trouble but the coverup.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: FatKidsDad on May 09, 2017, 11:15:40 PM
Gone is democracy from the US. The start of fascism. A goon can remove anyone who investigates his possible wrong doing. the media rolls over. The ruling party puts party over nation.

Once the idiot-in-chief realizes he can do anything without consequences, he will. And who will stand up and oppose him?

What separates the US from a banana republic, wherein the ruler installs his family, profits off government policy, and collides with the rich to become richer? Opposition is squelched and the media marches in step.

Investigation of possible crimes by the ruler?  Off with their heads.

Basically, the legitimacy of the US as a semi-functional democratic entity is now dependent on the Democratic Party turning out voters in a mid-term election.

Christ save us all.

Latest in a string of ugly moves by POTUS but I won't go dowm the fascism road.  I think he is less evil or ideological zealot than he is an immature, thin-skinned and impulsive man with far more power than he should have.  There are still some level heads in the administration - other than Bannon there is no Geobals in the WH. 

 Dems and Independents need to unify to give congress back to the democrats in 2018.   Dems need to take a deep breath amd locate an articulate moderate who can lead the party. And someone like John Kasich should start his 2020 campaign for the republican nomination ASAP.    Democracy is alive -- in 18 months this turns around

 
As is often the case, the voice of reason.

TP
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: kraidstar on May 10, 2017, 11:52:55 AM
Gone is democracy from the US. The start of fascism. A goon can remove anyone who investigates his possible wrong doing. the media rolls over. The ruling party puts party over nation.

Once the idiot-in-chief realizes he can do anything without consequences, he will. And who will stand up and oppose him?

What separates the US from a banana republic, wherein the ruler installs his family, profits off government policy, and collides with the rich to become richer? Opposition is squelched and the media marches in step.

Investigation of possible crimes by the ruler?  Off with their heads.

Basically, the legitimacy of the US as a semi-functional democratic entity is now dependent on the Democratic Party turning out voters in a mid-term election.

Christ save us all.

Latest in a string of ugly moves by POTUS but I won't go dowm the fascism road.  I think he is less evil or ideological zealot than he is an immature, thin-skinned and impulsive man with far more power than he should have.  There are still some level heads in the administration - other than Bannon there is no Geobals in the WH. 

 Dems and Independents need to unify to give congress back to the democrats in 2018.   Dems need to take a deep breath amd locate an articulate moderate who can lead the party. And someone like John Kasich should start his 2020 campaign for the republican nomination ASAP.    Democracy is alive -- in 18 months this turns around

 
As is often the case, the voice of reason.

TP

I don't know about that. We have a system of checks and balances in place to prevent power from swinging too far in any given direction, but I would argue that those checks and balances are failing.

The Republicans stole a Supreme Court seat, manipulating obscure procedures to push through their candidate after denying Obama his Constitutional right to appoint his own nominee.

They've gerrymandered and disenfranchised their way to a disproportionate number of state and national congressional seats. Conservative-packed courts have failed to overturn these injustices.

Political spin has turned into outright propaganda and "alternate facts" pushed by various corporate-backed outlets.

Many congressmen seem unperturbed that our supposed enemy, Russia, interfered in our election, and is backing Trump and many other far right-wing politicians world-wide.

The conservatives are supporting a a President who got a huge assist from the FBI at the most critical moment in the Presidential election - and then the same President fires the FBI director because he's investigating the administration for ties to Russia. I doubt congress will organize a proper investigation. And I doubt even more that Trump will investigate himself.

And, perhaps worst of all, the Republicans are fighting to give even greater tax cuts and deregulation to the oligarchs and industries which are burying the middle class, a middle class which is theoretically the backbone of a strong economy.

These same oligarchs are contributing vast amounts of dark money to the campaigns of same said politicians, in large part to decisions like Citizens United. Good luck overturning that one with a rigged Supreme Court.

Good luck prosecuting possible Russian sympathizers with a rigged FBI.

Good luck winning elections when the failsafes to protect our democracy are failing one by one, and corruption and partisanship have supplanted common sense.

I don't see how anyone can view the current situation as anything other than a blatant third-world-style power grab.

IMO to call it anything else is apologism or naivete. This is NOT business as usual. This is serious.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: liam on May 10, 2017, 11:57:28 AM
Gone is democracy from the US. The start of fascism. A goon can remove anyone who investigates his possible wrong doing. the media rolls over. The ruling party puts party over nation.

Once the idiot-in-chief realizes he can do anything without consequences, he will. And who will stand up and oppose him?

What separates the US from a banana republic, wherein the ruler installs his family, profits off government policy, and collides with the rich to become richer? Opposition is squelched and the media marches in step.

Investigation of possible crimes by the ruler?  Off with their heads.

Basically, the legitimacy of the US as a semi-functional democratic entity is now dependent on the Democratic Party turning out voters in a mid-term election.

Christ save us all.

Latest in a string of ugly moves by POTUS but I won't go dowm the fascism road.  I think he is less evil or ideological zealot than he is an immature, thin-skinned and impulsive man with far more power than he should have.  There are still some level heads in the administration - other than Bannon there is no Geobals in the WH. 

 Dems and Independents need to unify to give congress back to the democrats in 2018.   Dems need to take a deep breath amd locate an articulate moderate who can lead the party. And someone like John Kasich should start his 2020 campaign for the republican nomination ASAP.    Democracy is alive -- in 18 months this turns around

 
As is often the case, the voice of reason.

TP

I don't know about that. We have a system of checks and balances in place to prevent power from swinging too far in any given direction, but I would argue that those checks and balances are failing.

The Republicans stole a Supreme Court seat, manipulating obscure procedures to push through their candidate after denying Obama his Constitutional right to appoint his own nominee.

They've gerrymandered and disenfranchised their way to a disproportionate number of state and national congressional seats. Conservative-packed courts have failed to overturn these injustices.

Political spin has turned into outright propaganda and "alternate facts" pushed by various corporate-backed outlets.

Many congressmen seem unperturbed that our supposed enemy, Russia, interfered in our election, and is backing Trump and many other far right-wing politicians world-wide.

The conservatives are supporting a a President who got a huge assist from the FBI at the most critical moment in the Presidential election - and then the same President fires the FBI director because he's investigating the administration for ties to Russia. I doubt congress will organize a proper investigation. And I doubt even more that Trump will investigate himself.

And, perhaps worst of all, the Republicans are fighting to give even greater tax cuts and deregulation to the oligarchs and industries which are burying the middle class, a middle class which is theoretically the backbone of a strong economy.

These same oligarchs are contributing vast amounts of dark money to the campaigns of same said politicians, in large part to decisions like Citizens United. Good luck overturning that one with a rigged Supreme Court.

Good luck prosecuting possible Russian sympathizers with a rigged FBI.

Good luck winning elections when the failsafes to protect our democracy are failing one by one, and corruption and partisanship have supplanted common sense.

I don't see how anyone can view the current situation as anything other than a blatant third-world-style power grab.

IMO to call it anything else is apologism or naivete. This is NOT business as usual. This is serious.

Sadly, this all too true. The only hope is that a backlash of political action will take place and sweep away this power and money grab.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Jon on May 10, 2017, 12:19:08 PM
I hope conservatives are enjoying the last time they'll have power for a very long time, because only a fool would be oblivious to the fact that Trump is going to run the entire Party and brand into the ground.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Roy H. on May 10, 2017, 12:52:09 PM
I hope conservatives are enjoying the last time they'll have power for a very long time, because only a fool would be oblivious to the fact that Trump is going to run the entire Party and brand into the ground.

I don't think that's really true.  Look at Nixon's resignation. The Republicans held the White House for 16 of the next 20 years.

Look at those members of Congress that have been forced out of Congress due to scandal and corruption. In almost all instances, the political parties themselves haven't suffered.

As amateurish as Trump has been, 40% of voters still support him. That's hardly a death knell for Republicans, and they'll never run a worse nominee.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Roy H. on May 10, 2017, 12:57:21 PM
Gone is democracy from the US. The start of fascism. A goon can remove anyone who investigates his possible wrong doing. the media rolls over. The ruling party puts party over nation.

Once the idiot-in-chief realizes he can do anything without consequences, he will. And who will stand up and oppose him?

What separates the US from a banana republic, wherein the ruler installs his family, profits off government policy, and collides with the rich to become richer? Opposition is squelched and the media marches in step.

Investigation of possible crimes by the ruler?  Off with their heads.

Basically, the legitimacy of the US as a semi-functional democratic entity is now dependent on the Democratic Party turning out voters in a mid-term election.

Christ save us all.

Latest in a string of ugly moves by POTUS but I won't go dowm the fascism road.  I think he is less evil or ideological zealot than he is an immature, thin-skinned and impulsive man with far more power than he should have.  There are still some level heads in the administration - other than Bannon there is no Geobals in the WH. 

 Dems and Independents need to unify to give congress back to the democrats in 2018.   Dems need to take a deep breath amd locate an articulate moderate who can lead the party. And someone like John Kasich should start his 2020 campaign for the republican nomination ASAP.    Democracy is alive -- in 18 months this turns around

 
As is often the case, the voice of reason.

TP

I don't know about that. We have a system of checks and balances in place to prevent power from swinging too far in any given direction, but I would argue that those checks and balances are failing.

The Republicans stole a Supreme Court seat, manipulating obscure procedures to push through their candidate after denying Obama his Constitutional right to appoint his own nominee.

They've gerrymandered and disenfranchised their way to a disproportionate number of state and national congressional seats. Conservative-packed courts have failed to overturn these injustices.

Political spin has turned into outright propaganda and "alternate facts" pushed by various corporate-backed outlets.

Many congressmen seem unperturbed that our supposed enemy, Russia, interfered in our election, and is backing Trump and many other far right-wing politicians world-wide.

The conservatives are supporting a a President who got a huge assist from the FBI at the most critical moment in the Presidential election - and then the same President fires the FBI director because he's investigating the administration for ties to Russia. I doubt congress will organize a proper investigation. And I doubt even more that Trump will investigate himself.

And, perhaps worst of all, the Republicans are fighting to give even greater tax cuts and deregulation to the oligarchs and industries which are burying the middle class, a middle class which is theoretically the backbone of a strong economy.

These same oligarchs are contributing vast amounts of dark money to the campaigns of same said politicians, in large part to decisions like Citizens United. Good luck overturning that one with a rigged Supreme Court.

Good luck prosecuting possible Russian sympathizers with a rigged FBI.

Good luck winning elections when the failsafes to protect our democracy are failing one by one, and corruption and partisanship have supplanted common sense.

I don't see how anyone can view the current situation as anything other than a blatant third-world-style power grab.

IMO to call it anything else is apologism or naivete. This is NOT business as usual. This is serious.

Isn't the biggest check the voters? No offense, but by buying into the "my side is better than your side" nonsense, you're part of the problem. You truly believe Democrats aren't bought and paid for? That Democrats don't gerrymander? That Democrats have clean hands with judicial nominations?

Both parties are about money and power. Their primary goal is to make voters false promises in an effort to get elected.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: kozlodoev on May 10, 2017, 01:06:21 PM
The most obvious reason for Trump to do this is to appoint an FBI director who won't investigate him seriously.
The FBI director and his agency serve at the pleasure of the President. Any serious investigation on this will come from the Congress or the Senate.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: slamtheking on May 10, 2017, 01:41:23 PM
The most obvious reason for Trump to do this is to appoint an FBI director who won't investigate him seriously.
The FBI director and his agency serve at the pleasure of the President. Any serious investigation on this will come from the Congress or the Senate.
that may be the first time the word 'serious' was used in the same sentence as Congress/Senate.

that said, with both houses in the hands of the Reps, no real investigation will be conducted
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: slamtheking on May 10, 2017, 01:44:33 PM
I hope conservatives are enjoying the last time they'll have power for a very long time, because only a fool would be oblivious to the fact that Trump is going to run the entire Party and brand into the ground.

I don't think that's really true.  Look at Nixon's resignation. The Republicans held the White House for 16 of the next 20 years.

Look at those members of Congress that have been forced out of Congress due to scandal and corruption. In almost all instances, the political parties themselves haven't suffered.

As amateurish as Trump has been, 40% of voters still support him. That's hardly a death knell for Republicans, and they'll never run a worse nominee.
sadly this is truer than it should be.  Trump could make good on his comment about shooting someone in the streets of NY and not taking a hit in popularity thanks to his core voting block that doesn't give a rat's ass about the rest of the country/world and will support him no matter what. 
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: More Banners on May 10, 2017, 03:00:05 PM
I hope conservatives are enjoying the last time they'll have power for a very long time, because only a fool would be oblivious to the fact that Trump is going to run the entire Party and brand into the ground.

Well, one would think.

The overwhelming unpopularity of GWB and the slaughter of the 2008 election, followed immediately by the slaughter the other way in 2010, however, give me pause to believe either can be out for long in a dichotomous political environment. The electorate doesn't have the attention span to hold a grudge, the 24 hour news cycle will put something else on to attend to/distract, and opposition media and party will find enough fault with the solution to the last  brouhaha to warrant their return.

2-party politics don't provide much protection for the republic.  But I like a multiparty parliamentary system where new coalitions form all the time more than our standard collections (e.g. I don't understand how religious social conservatives and libertarians vote for the same dude, right? Wouldn't they be naturally opposed?)
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: mef730 on May 10, 2017, 04:02:48 PM
I hope conservatives are enjoying the last time they'll have power for a very long time, because only a fool would be oblivious to the fact that Trump is going to run the entire Party and brand into the ground.

Sadly, I believed that before the election, as well.

Mike
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Jon on May 10, 2017, 04:55:09 PM
I hope conservatives are enjoying the last time they'll have power for a very long time, because only a fool would be oblivious to the fact that Trump is going to run the entire Party and brand into the ground.

I don't think that's really true.  Look at Nixon's resignation. The Republicans held the White House for 16 of the next 20 years.

Look at those members of Congress that have been forced out of Congress due to scandal and corruption. In almost all instances, the political parties themselves haven't suffered.

As amateurish as Trump has been, 40% of voters still support him. That's hardly a death knell for Republicans, and they'll never run a worse nominee.
sadly this is truer than it should be.  Trump could make good on his comment about shooting someone in the streets of NY and not taking a hit in popularity thanks to his core voting block that doesn't give a rat's ass about the rest of the country/world and will support him no matter what.

But all of you (including some others on this thread) aren't taking into account the shifting demographics of America. Republicans have been able to dodge scandals like Nixon and ineptness like GW Bush because they could still rely on white male voters to support them. With the percentage of white males in the country shrinking by the day, the Republicans are going to have a very hard time convincing anyone else to vote for them. As inept as W. was, he at least did not outwardly spew scorn against minorities or women. Under Trump, they have become the party synonymous with that.

Don't believe me? Ask Pat Buchanan, who essentially was a less unhinged Trump before Trump who also loves Trump now. On This American Life recently he was asked about Trump and in the midst of his praise he said the following:


"North Carolina is shifting. Georgia is shifting demographically. The American Southwest is shifting. The Hispanic vote is growing. It's going to be almost impossible to win. Trump won, but he lost by 3 million votes. And 80,000 votes the other way and we'd still be talking about the eternal lock the Democratic Party's got on the presidency. In other words, they have a problem, the Republican Party. It's far harder for me to solve than the one I saw after Barry Goldwater. You could see the path-- the path up the mountainside there. I don't see it now."


And that's a guy who loves Trump and wants to see him succeed. To paraphrase an earlier part of the interview, he basically said if Trump passes the legislation he wants to keep immigrants out, Republicans will fail with minorities in future election cycles, but if he doesn't the country will continue to get more and more diverse and Republicans will also fail in future election cycles. The whole transcript can be seen below.


https://m.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/615/transcript
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: MBunge on May 10, 2017, 05:08:42 PM
I hope conservatives are enjoying the last time they'll have power for a very long time, because only a fool would be oblivious to the fact that Trump is going to run the entire Party and brand into the ground.

I don't think that's really true.  Look at Nixon's resignation. The Republicans held the White House for 16 of the next 20 years.

Look at those members of Congress that have been forced out of Congress due to scandal and corruption. In almost all instances, the political parties themselves haven't suffered.

As amateurish as Trump has been, 40% of voters still support him. That's hardly a death knell for Republicans, and they'll never run a worse nominee.
sadly this is truer than it should be.  Trump could make good on his comment about shooting someone in the streets of NY and not taking a hit in popularity thanks to his core voting block that doesn't give a rat's ass about the rest of the country/world and will support him no matter what.

But all of you (including some others on this thread) aren't taking into account the shifting demographics of America.

The demographic delusion is one of the things that got Trump elected in the first place.  Democrats and liberals can't just sit back and expect sometehing to deliver them to power.  They need to run good candidates who have compelling answers to the problems facing the country today.

Republicans led the country into a pointless war and set off a massive foreign policy fiasco we will be dealing with for decades, presided over the start of the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression, nearly blew another hole in the global economy by voting to not raise the debt ceiling AND are on the wrong side of one social issue after another.

Republicans also currently hold the White House, the Senate, the House, a majority of governorships and a majority of state legislatures.

Democrats need to start thinking HARD about how both of those things can be possible and give up this adolescent fantasy that they're perfect and they just need the rest of the world to catch up to them.

Mike
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Jon on May 10, 2017, 05:14:30 PM
I hope conservatives are enjoying the last time they'll have power for a very long time, because only a fool would be oblivious to the fact that Trump is going to run the entire Party and brand into the ground.

I don't think that's really true.  Look at Nixon's resignation. The Republicans held the White House for 16 of the next 20 years.

Look at those members of Congress that have been forced out of Congress due to scandal and corruption. In almost all instances, the political parties themselves haven't suffered.

As amateurish as Trump has been, 40% of voters still support him. That's hardly a death knell for Republicans, and they'll never run a worse nominee.
sadly this is truer than it should be.  Trump could make good on his comment about shooting someone in the streets of NY and not taking a hit in popularity thanks to his core voting block that doesn't give a rat's ass about the rest of the country/world and will support him no matter what.

But all of you (including some others on this thread) aren't taking into account the shifting demographics of America.

The demographic delusion is one of the things that got Trump elected in the first place.  Democrats and liberals can't just sit back and expect sometehing to deliver them to power.  They need to run good candidates who have compelling answers to the problems facing the country today.

Republicans led the country into a pointless war and set off a massive foreign policy fiasco we will be dealing with for decades, presided over the start of the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression, nearly blew another hole in the global economy by voting to not raise the debt ceiling AND are on the wrong side of one social issue after another.

Republicans also currently hold the White House, the Senate, the House, a majority of governorships and a majority of state legislatures.

Democrats need to start thinking HARD about how both of those things can be possible and give up this adolescent fantasy that they're perfect and they just need the rest of the world to catch up to them.

Mike

Well, a lot of that is a gerrymandered system. Democrats won the popular vote in the election and often get more votes for House Reps (by state, not district).

But I don't disagree with the notion they need better candidates, but the demographics are going to help both statistically and due to Trump's outrageous bigotry. Conservatives have always had a bigoted part of the Party (just how large that is i won't get into right now). But never before has the face of the Party been as brash about it. They could rationalize accusations of bigotry before. You can't rationalize away Trump and everyone in the Party who has supported him.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Bostonborn62 on May 10, 2017, 06:37:16 PM
It's amazing to me to see so many here believing the MSM talking points on Russia, do some digging on Democrats admitting there IS NO EVIDENCE tying Trump to Russia, start with Clapper and Comey himself telling Trump 3 times that there was no investigation into the Trump connection being done by the FBI, 9 months they've been pushing this narrative and there is NOTHING there,  it's a talking point to rally the troops and fund raise, that's about it , Comey has disgraced the FBI by NOT bringing charges against Hillary, there should only be a 1 tiered Justice system in this Country not 2 for those like Hillary who think they are above the law(Repub's too), if they put someone in place that will do his job to the letter of the Law, Hillary WILL go to jail, where she belongs. Why don't the MSM do a little digging on Hillary on about the 20% of all our Plutonium she sold off to the Russians, NOW there's a real story the Dem's and the MSM won't touch.    p.s. I'm an Independent voter, just in case you were wondering.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: MBunge on May 10, 2017, 06:43:45 PM
I hope conservatives are enjoying the last time they'll have power for a very long time, because only a fool would be oblivious to the fact that Trump is going to run the entire Party and brand into the ground.

I don't think that's really true.  Look at Nixon's resignation. The Republicans held the White House for 16 of the next 20 years.

Look at those members of Congress that have been forced out of Congress due to scandal and corruption. In almost all instances, the political parties themselves haven't suffered.

As amateurish as Trump has been, 40% of voters still support him. That's hardly a death knell for Republicans, and they'll never run a worse nominee.
sadly this is truer than it should be.  Trump could make good on his comment about shooting someone in the streets of NY and not taking a hit in popularity thanks to his core voting block that doesn't give a rat's ass about the rest of the country/world and will support him no matter what.

But all of you (including some others on this thread) aren't taking into account the shifting demographics of America.

The demographic delusion is one of the things that got Trump elected in the first place.  Democrats and liberals can't just sit back and expect sometehing to deliver them to power.  They need to run good candidates who have compelling answers to the problems facing the country today.

Republicans led the country into a pointless war and set off a massive foreign policy fiasco we will be dealing with for decades, presided over the start of the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression, nearly blew another hole in the global economy by voting to not raise the debt ceiling AND are on the wrong side of one social issue after another.

Republicans also currently hold the White House, the Senate, the House, a majority of governorships and a majority of state legislatures.

Democrats need to start thinking HARD about how both of those things can be possible and give up this adolescent fantasy that they're perfect and they just need the rest of the world to catch up to them.

Mike

Well, a lot of that is a gerrymandered system.

Yes, gerrymandering is a problem but Donald Trump won the overall popular vote in 49 states.  Hillary Clinton won the national popular vote by just under three million but won California by over 4 million votes.  If you remove California, Texas and one more of literally any other of the red states, Trump still wins the overall popular vote.

Mike
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: hpantazo on May 10, 2017, 07:19:44 PM
It's amazing to me to see so many here believing the MSM talking points on Russia, do some digging on Democrats admitting there IS NO EVIDENCE tying Trump to Russia, start with Clapper and Comey himself telling Trump 3 times that there was no investigation into the Trump connection being done by the FBI, 9 months they've been pushing this narrative and there is NOTHING there,  it's a talking point to rally the troops and fund raise, that's about it , Comey has disgraced the FBI by NOT bringing charges against Hillary, there should only be a 1 tiered Justice system in this Country not 2 for those like Hillary who think they are above the law(Repub's too), if they put someone in place that will do his job to the letter of the Law, Hillary WILL go to jail, where she belongs. Why don't the MSM do a little digging on Hillary on about the 20% of all our Plutonium she sold off to the Russians, NOW there's a real story the Dem's and the MSM won't touch.    p.s. I'm an Independent voter, just in case you were wondering.

Just like everyone was sure that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and we had to invade them immediately, right?

If there is no evidence, then let investigators do their job freely and let the investigation speak for itself. Obstructing and rushing things along and firing people doesn't support the belief that there is nothing to find.

There's something to the Russian tampering accusations, and the politicians who are ignoring it or denying it are going to look like fools or worse when evidence comes to light sooner or later.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: fairweatherfan on May 10, 2017, 07:40:49 PM
It's amazing to me to see so many here believing the MSM talking points on Russia,

There's far, far more to this than "MSM talking points". The Senate, House and FBI at minimum are investigating the connections. The former agent in charge of Russia for MI6 collected an extensive dossier on possible links. At least four other countries' intelligence services told the US during the campaign that Trump campaign members were meeting with Russian agents. The NSA director resigned due to lying about Russian connections, and is now registered as being a foreign agent during the campaign. And both a grand jury the Senate Intelligence Committee are now subpoenaing Flynn and associates for documents on their dealings with Russia.

Pretending this is all just some grand media conspiracy is wildly offbase, and sounds like the sort of thing competing media outlets with no scruples would push on their audience.

Quote
do some digging on Democrats admitting there IS NO EVIDENCE tying Trump to Russia, start with Clapper


This is a misrepresented quote. Clapper's statement was that he was not part of the FBI's counterintelligence inquiry into the Trump campaign, so he was not given any evidence by the people who were before his term ended. He didn't remotely say there was no evidence, he said he hadn't seen any because he was not involved with the investigation before his term ended.

Quote
and Comey himself telling Trump 3 times that there was no investigation into the Trump connection being done by the FBI

This appears to be solely based on Trump's claim that he bizarrely inserted into the Comey firing letter. If you're still taking Trump at his word in May 2017, then haha, I can't help you there. It also would've been wildly inappropriate for the FBI director to talk about an investigation into Trump's campaign with Trump.

Quote
Comey has disgraced the FBI by NOT bringing charges against Hillary

Comey had no power to bring charges, that belonged to the Justice Dept. He recommended no charges and extensively explained why.

Quote
there should only be a 1 tiered Justice system in this Country not 2 for those like Hillary who think they are above the law(Repub's too)

Agreed, but it's odd to say this right after handwaving away one of the biggest investigations in our country's history.

Quote
if they put someone in place that will do his job to the letter of the Law, Hillary WILL go to jail, where she belongs.

No she won't, because she's been exhaustively investigated from about every possible angle and nothing's actionable has been found. It's just that a lot of "non-MSM" media outlets have been shrieking about how obviously guilty she is for years and some people internalize that.

Quote
Why don't the MSM do a little digging on Hillary on about the 20% of all our Plutonium she sold off to the Russians, NOW there's a real story the Dem's and the MSM won't touch.   

They have, the reason it's not a story anymore is because it's nonsense. The State Dept was one of NINE departments who had to sign off on the uranium sale, and ultimately had no real power as the President made the decision anyway. Again, this is mostly a product of media figures shrieking exaggerated claims as if they were factual. Here's a good summary (http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2016/sep/30/donald-trump/nuclear-claim-donald-trump-says-hillary-clinton-ga/)
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: chicagoceltic on May 10, 2017, 08:20:57 PM
It's amazing to me to see so many here believing the MSM talking points on Russia,

There's far, far more to this than "MSM talking points". The Senate, House and FBI at minimum are investigating the connections. The former agent in charge of Russia for MI6 collected an extensive dossier on possible links. At least four other countries' intelligence services told the US during the campaign that Trump campaign members were meeting with Russian agents. The NSA director resigned due to lying about Russian connections, and is now registered as being a foreign agent during the campaign. And both a grand jury the Senate Intelligence Committee are now subpoenaing Flynn and associates for documents on their dealings with Russia.

Pretending this is all just some grand media conspiracy is wildly offbase, and sounds like the sort of thing competing media outlets with no scruples would push on their audience.

Quote
do some digging on Democrats admitting there IS NO EVIDENCE tying Trump to Russia, start with Clapper


This is a misrepresented quote. Clapper's statement was that he was not part of the FBI's counterintelligence inquiry into the Trump campaign, so he was not given any evidence by the people who were before his term ended. He didn't remotely say there was no evidence, he said he hadn't seen any because he was not involved with the investigation before his term ended.

Quote
and Comey himself telling Trump 3 times that there was no investigation into the Trump connection being done by the FBI

This appears to be solely based on Trump's claim that he bizarrely inserted into the Comey firing letter. If you're still taking Trump at his word in May 2017, then haha, I can't help you there. It also would've been wildly inappropriate for the FBI director to talk about an investigation into Trump's campaign with Trump.

Quote
Comey has disgraced the FBI by NOT bringing charges against Hillary

Comey had no power to bring charges, that belonged to the Justice Dept. He recommended no charges and extensively explained why.

Quote
there should only be a 1 tiered Justice system in this Country not 2 for those like Hillary who think they are above the law(Repub's too)

Agreed, but it's odd to say this right after handwaving away one of the biggest investigations in our country's history.

Quote
if they put someone in place that will do his job to the letter of the Law, Hillary WILL go to jail, where she belongs.

No she won't, because she's been exhaustively investigated from about every possible angle and nothing's actionable has been found. It's just that a lot of "non-MSM" media outlets have been shrieking about how obviously guilty she is for years and some people internalize that.

Quote
Why don't the MSM do a little digging on Hillary on about the 20% of all our Plutonium she sold off to the Russians, NOW there's a real story the Dem's and the MSM won't touch.   

They have, the reason it's not a story anymore is because it's nonsense. The State Dept was one of NINE departments who had to sign off on the uranium sale, and ultimately had no real power as the President made the decision anyway. Again, this is mostly a product of media figures shrieking exaggerated claims as if they were factual. Here's a good summary (http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2016/sep/30/donald-trump/nuclear-claim-donald-trump-says-hillary-clinton-ga/)
Thank you for a great post and saving me from having to reply myself.  TP for saving me the time.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: indeedproceed on May 10, 2017, 08:50:08 PM
It's amazing to me to see so many here believing the MSM talking points on Russia,

There's far, far more to this than "MSM talking points". The Senate, House and FBI at minimum are investigating the connections. The former agent in charge of Russia for MI6 collected an extensive dossier on possible links. At least four other countries' intelligence services told the US during the campaign that Trump campaign members were meeting with Russian agents. The NSA director resigned due to lying about Russian connections, and is now registered as being a foreign agent during the campaign. And both a grand jury the Senate Intelligence Committee are now subpoenaing Flynn and associates for documents on their dealings with Russia.

Pretending this is all just some grand media conspiracy is wildly offbase, and sounds like the sort of thing competing media outlets with no scruples would push on their audience.

Quote
do some digging on Democrats admitting there IS NO EVIDENCE tying Trump to Russia, start with Clapper


This is a misrepresented quote. Clapper's statement was that he was not part of the FBI's counterintelligence inquiry into the Trump campaign, so he was not given any evidence by the people who were before his term ended. He didn't remotely say there was no evidence, he said he hadn't seen any because he was not involved with the investigation before his term ended.

Quote
and Comey himself telling Trump 3 times that there was no investigation into the Trump connection being done by the FBI

This appears to be solely based on Trump's claim that he bizarrely inserted into the Comey firing letter. If you're still taking Trump at his word in May 2017, then haha, I can't help you there. It also would've been wildly inappropriate for the FBI director to talk about an investigation into Trump's campaign with Trump.

Quote
Comey has disgraced the FBI by NOT bringing charges against Hillary

Comey had no power to bring charges, that belonged to the Justice Dept. He recommended no charges and extensively explained why.

Quote
there should only be a 1 tiered Justice system in this Country not 2 for those like Hillary who think they are above the law(Repub's too)

Agreed, but it's odd to say this right after handwaving away one of the biggest investigations in our country's history.

Quote
if they put someone in place that will do his job to the letter of the Law, Hillary WILL go to jail, where she belongs.

No she won't, because she's been exhaustively investigated from about every possible angle and nothing's actionable has been found. It's just that a lot of "non-MSM" media outlets have been shrieking about how obviously guilty she is for years and some people internalize that.

Quote
Why don't the MSM do a little digging on Hillary on about the 20% of all our Plutonium she sold off to the Russians, NOW there's a real story the Dem's and the MSM won't touch.   

They have, the reason it's not a story anymore is because it's nonsense. The State Dept was one of NINE departments who had to sign off on the uranium sale, and ultimately had no real power as the President made the decision anyway. Again, this is mostly a product of media figures shrieking exaggerated claims as if they were factual. Here's a good summary (http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2016/sep/30/donald-trump/nuclear-claim-donald-trump-says-hillary-clinton-ga/)
Thank you for a great post and saving me from having to reply myself.  TP for saving me the time.

Agreed
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Jon on May 10, 2017, 09:11:47 PM
I hope conservatives are enjoying the last time they'll have power for a very long time, because only a fool would be oblivious to the fact that Trump is going to run the entire Party and brand into the ground.

I don't think that's really true.  Look at Nixon's resignation. The Republicans held the White House for 16 of the next 20 years.

Look at those members of Congress that have been forced out of Congress due to scandal and corruption. In almost all instances, the political parties themselves haven't suffered.

As amateurish as Trump has been, 40% of voters still support him. That's hardly a death knell for Republicans, and they'll never run a worse nominee.
sadly this is truer than it should be.  Trump could make good on his comment about shooting someone in the streets of NY and not taking a hit in popularity thanks to his core voting block that doesn't give a rat's ass about the rest of the country/world and will support him no matter what.

But all of you (including some others on this thread) aren't taking into account the shifting demographics of America.

The demographic delusion is one of the things that got Trump elected in the first place.  Democrats and liberals can't just sit back and expect sometehing to deliver them to power.  They need to run good candidates who have compelling answers to the problems facing the country today.

Republicans led the country into a pointless war and set off a massive foreign policy fiasco we will be dealing with for decades, presided over the start of the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression, nearly blew another hole in the global economy by voting to not raise the debt ceiling AND are on the wrong side of one social issue after another.

Republicans also currently hold the White House, the Senate, the House, a majority of governorships and a majority of state legislatures.

Democrats need to start thinking HARD about how both of those things can be possible and give up this adolescent fantasy that they're perfect and they just need the rest of the world to catch up to them.

Mike

Well, a lot of that is a gerrymandered system.

Yes, gerrymandering is a problem but Donald Trump won the overall popular vote in 49 states.  Hillary Clinton won the national popular vote by just under three million but won California by over 4 million votes.  If you remove California, Texas and one more of literally any other of the red states, Trump still wins the overall popular vote.

Mike

I'm not sure where you're getting your news, but that isn't even remotely true:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/trump-v-clinton-what-the-popular-vote-in-each-state-shows-electoral-college/

Trump won 30 of the 20 states' popular vote, but that means nothing when some of the states that Hillary won have bigger counties than some of the states he won.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: angryguy77 on May 10, 2017, 09:17:40 PM
If trump was doing this to save his behind, he would have done this day 1. Comey should've been fired the day he decided to play prosecutor instead of FBI director over the Hillary love letters.

We have no evidence of Trump colluding with Russia, yet many are losing their minds over it. Hillary was found to break the law and these same people don't care because "she didn't mean to do it."

Our gov is a joke, there's no rule of law. The fact that not a single person went to jail for the IRS scandal, Hillary's server, or F&F is evidence of this. We are in the twilight of our republic because politics is now more important than the rule of law. As a people we are soft and would rather take the charity of their gov or neighbor than live without certain luxuries. Just pray things stay together long enough to live out your life.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Roy H. on May 10, 2017, 09:18:54 PM
I hope conservatives are enjoying the last time they'll have power for a very long time, because only a fool would be oblivious to the fact that Trump is going to run the entire Party and brand into the ground.

I don't think that's really true.  Look at Nixon's resignation. The Republicans held the White House for 16 of the next 20 years.

Look at those members of Congress that have been forced out of Congress due to scandal and corruption. In almost all instances, the political parties themselves haven't suffered.

As amateurish as Trump has been, 40% of voters still support him. That's hardly a death knell for Republicans, and they'll never run a worse nominee.
sadly this is truer than it should be.  Trump could make good on his comment about shooting someone in the streets of NY and not taking a hit in popularity thanks to his core voting block that doesn't give a rat's ass about the rest of the country/world and will support him no matter what.

But all of you (including some others on this thread) aren't taking into account the shifting demographics of America.

The demographic delusion is one of the things that got Trump elected in the first place.  Democrats and liberals can't just sit back and expect sometehing to deliver them to power.  They need to run good candidates who have compelling answers to the problems facing the country today.

Republicans led the country into a pointless war and set off a massive foreign policy fiasco we will be dealing with for decades, presided over the start of the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression, nearly blew another hole in the global economy by voting to not raise the debt ceiling AND are on the wrong side of one social issue after another.

Republicans also currently hold the White House, the Senate, the House, a majority of governorships and a majority of state legislatures.

Democrats need to start thinking HARD about how both of those things can be possible and give up this adolescent fantasy that they're perfect and they just need the rest of the world to catch up to them.

Mike

Well, a lot of that is a gerrymandered system.

Yes, gerrymandering is a problem but Donald Trump won the overall popular vote in 49 states.  Hillary Clinton won the national popular vote by just under three million but won California by over 4 million votes.  If you remove California, Texas and one more of literally any other of the red states, Trump still wins the overall popular vote.

Mike

I'm not sure where you're getting your news, but that isn't even remotely true:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/trump-v-clinton-what-the-popular-vote-in-each-state-shows-electoral-college/

Trump won 30 of the 20 states' popular vote, but that means nothing when some of the states that Hillary won have bigger counties than some of the states he won.

He means that if you don't include California, Trump had a sizable lead in the other 49 states combined.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Celtics4ever on May 10, 2017, 09:19:31 PM
One thing I found humorous is that some folks think Putin was afraid of Clinton.   He walked all over her as Secretary of State.  She was not effective .  See called his invading of Crimea Hitlersque but nothing happened.  Their Ukraine policies were ineffective as well.   Her and Pres. Obama were toothless and let the cat of the bag.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/441805/hillary-clintons-putin-russia-policy-was-disastrous

Putin has been in office for years, I wonder if he helped Pres. Obama win over her in the primaries.

Here is some evidence linking Clinton with Russia,

http://observer.com/2017/03/bill-hillary-clinton-ties-russia-billionaires-corporations/

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/446526/clinton-russia-ties-bill-hillary-sold-out-us-interests-putin-regime


Quote
do some digging on Democrats admitting there IS NO EVIDENCE tying Trump to Russia, start with Clapper

There is considerable evidence that certain members of his campaign who was advising him had connections.

Both of these candidates were deeply flawed folks.   I think that when win the liberals win back the oval office that the right will return their tantrums and antics in kind.   Politics have become downright uncivil and they are only getting worse from here.   

I would almost bet money that the person Trump appoints is going to go after Clinton. 
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Jon on May 10, 2017, 09:26:26 PM
I hope conservatives are enjoying the last time they'll have power for a very long time, because only a fool would be oblivious to the fact that Trump is going to run the entire Party and brand into the ground.

I don't think that's really true.  Look at Nixon's resignation. The Republicans held the White House for 16 of the next 20 years.

Look at those members of Congress that have been forced out of Congress due to scandal and corruption. In almost all instances, the political parties themselves haven't suffered.

As amateurish as Trump has been, 40% of voters still support him. That's hardly a death knell for Republicans, and they'll never run a worse nominee.
sadly this is truer than it should be.  Trump could make good on his comment about shooting someone in the streets of NY and not taking a hit in popularity thanks to his core voting block that doesn't give a rat's ass about the rest of the country/world and will support him no matter what.

But all of you (including some others on this thread) aren't taking into account the shifting demographics of America.

The demographic delusion is one of the things that got Trump elected in the first place.  Democrats and liberals can't just sit back and expect sometehing to deliver them to power.  They need to run good candidates who have compelling answers to the problems facing the country today.

Republicans led the country into a pointless war and set off a massive foreign policy fiasco we will be dealing with for decades, presided over the start of the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression, nearly blew another hole in the global economy by voting to not raise the debt ceiling AND are on the wrong side of one social issue after another.

Republicans also currently hold the White House, the Senate, the House, a majority of governorships and a majority of state legislatures.

Democrats need to start thinking HARD about how both of those things can be possible and give up this adolescent fantasy that they're perfect and they just need the rest of the world to catch up to them.

Mike

Well, a lot of that is a gerrymandered system.

Yes, gerrymandering is a problem but Donald Trump won the overall popular vote in 49 states.  Hillary Clinton won the national popular vote by just under three million but won California by over 4 million votes.  If you remove California, Texas and one more of literally any other of the red states, Trump still wins the overall popular vote.

Mike

I'm not sure where you're getting your news, but that isn't even remotely true:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/trump-v-clinton-what-the-popular-vote-in-each-state-shows-electoral-college/

Trump won 30 of the 20 states' popular vote, but that means nothing when some of the states that Hillary won have bigger counties than some of the states he won.

He means that if you don't include California, Trump had a sizable lead in the other 49 states combined.



Ah, I understand.

It's still a meaningless stat. California would be the sixth largest economy in the world if they seceded. If anything, California has way less electoral power than they should both by population and economic contribution.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Bostonborn62 on May 11, 2017, 06:04:55 AM
But why fire Comey now? The answer is simple. The day before, President Barack Obama’s former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper repeated,under oath, what he told NBC News’ Chuck Todd on Meet the Press on March 5 — that he had seen no evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russian government. That gave the Trump administration the breathing room to dismiss Comey — which it simply did not have before.                                        Joel B. Pollak.    I repeat, UNDER OATH, no evidence, this is coming from someone who would LOVE to burn Trump.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: littleteapot on May 11, 2017, 08:27:56 AM
Clapper said that he personally doesn't know of evidence the FBI has gathered but that it's not his job to know - it's the FBI's.

http://www.factcheck.org/2017/05/trumps-nothing-see-spin/

The investigation was going exactly the way it was supposed to go - Comey knows what the evidence the FBI is gathering is and people who aren't involved don't know. Obviously this was a problem for Trump.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: slamtheking on May 11, 2017, 09:08:41 AM
It's amazing to me to see so many here believing the MSM talking points on Russia,

There's far, far more to this than "MSM talking points". The Senate, House and FBI at minimum are investigating the connections. The former agent in charge of Russia for MI6 collected an extensive dossier on possible links. At least four other countries' intelligence services told the US during the campaign that Trump campaign members were meeting with Russian agents. The NSA director resigned due to lying about Russian connections, and is now registered as being a foreign agent during the campaign. And both a grand jury the Senate Intelligence Committee are now subpoenaing Flynn and associates for documents on their dealings with Russia.

Pretending this is all just some grand media conspiracy is wildly offbase, and sounds like the sort of thing competing media outlets with no scruples would push on their audience.

Quote
do some digging on Democrats admitting there IS NO EVIDENCE tying Trump to Russia, start with Clapper


This is a misrepresented quote. Clapper's statement was that he was not part of the FBI's counterintelligence inquiry into the Trump campaign, so he was not given any evidence by the people who were before his term ended. He didn't remotely say there was no evidence, he said he hadn't seen any because he was not involved with the investigation before his term ended.

Quote
and Comey himself telling Trump 3 times that there was no investigation into the Trump connection being done by the FBI

This appears to be solely based on Trump's claim that he bizarrely inserted into the Comey firing letter. If you're still taking Trump at his word in May 2017, then haha, I can't help you there. It also would've been wildly inappropriate for the FBI director to talk about an investigation into Trump's campaign with Trump.

Quote
Comey has disgraced the FBI by NOT bringing charges against Hillary

Comey had no power to bring charges, that belonged to the Justice Dept. He recommended no charges and extensively explained why.

Quote
there should only be a 1 tiered Justice system in this Country not 2 for those like Hillary who think they are above the law(Repub's too)

Agreed, but it's odd to say this right after handwaving away one of the biggest investigations in our country's history.

Quote
if they put someone in place that will do his job to the letter of the Law, Hillary WILL go to jail, where she belongs.

No she won't, because she's been exhaustively investigated from about every possible angle and nothing's actionable has been found. It's just that a lot of "non-MSM" media outlets have been shrieking about how obviously guilty she is for years and some people internalize that.

Quote
Why don't the MSM do a little digging on Hillary on about the 20% of all our Plutonium she sold off to the Russians, NOW there's a real story the Dem's and the MSM won't touch.   

They have, the reason it's not a story anymore is because it's nonsense. The State Dept was one of NINE departments who had to sign off on the uranium sale, and ultimately had no real power as the President made the decision anyway. Again, this is mostly a product of media figures shrieking exaggerated claims as if they were factual. Here's a good summary (http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2016/sep/30/donald-trump/nuclear-claim-donald-trump-says-hillary-clinton-ga/)
Thank you for a great post and saving me from having to reply myself.  TP for saving me the time.

Agreed
well stated rebuttal, TP
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Big333223 on May 11, 2017, 09:56:26 AM
Let's not forget to add that Trump's supposed reasoning for firing Comey was because Jeff Sessions recommended it. The same Jeff Sessions who promised to recuse himself from anything to do with the Russian investigation (because he lied under oath during his confirmation hearing and was still confirmed but sure) which I guess doesn't count pushing to have the man leading that investigation fired.

Also, Comey had asked for more resources for investigating Russia days before he was fired by the man he was investigating.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-comey-replacement-idUSKBN1861HK
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: fairweatherfan on May 11, 2017, 10:08:05 AM
Let's not forget to add that Trump's supposed reasoning for firing Comey was because Jeff Sessions recommended it. The same Jeff Sessions who promised to recuse himself from anything to do with the Russian investigation (because he lied under oath during his confirmation hearing and was still confirmed but sure) which I guess doesn't count pushing to have the man leading that investigation fired.

The WH initially claimed it was mainly due to the recommendation of Deputy AG Rosenstein, who wrote a letter basically attacking Comey's treatment of the Clinton email case but never explicitly calling for him to be fired.

That story changed very quickly to it being solely Trump's decision, possibly because Rosenstein reportedly threatened to resign, because Trump had already made the decision.

This is a really good read  (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-trumps-anger-and-impatience-prompted-him-to-fire-the-fbi-director/2017/05/10/d9642334-359c-11e7-b373-418f6849a004_story.html?utm_term=.6130a4fc63de)on the Comey aftermath. Something like a dozen reporters worked on it with over 30 sources (!).

Spoiler: Trump fired Comey for not squelching the Russia investigation and not supporting him on his insane "Obama wiretapp" claims. And as you'd expect appears to be lying with his completely not-suspicious "you told me 3 times I'm not being investigated!" insertion.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Big333223 on May 11, 2017, 10:15:52 AM
Let's not forget to add that Trump's supposed reasoning for firing Comey was because Jeff Sessions recommended it. The same Jeff Sessions who promised to recuse himself from anything to do with the Russian investigation (because he lied under oath during his confirmation hearing and was still confirmed but sure) which I guess doesn't count pushing to have the man leading that investigation fired.

The WH initially claimed it was mainly due to the recommendation of Deputy AG Rosenstein, who wrote a letter basically attacking Comey's treatment of the Clinton email case but never explicitly calling for him to be fired.

That story changed very quickly to it being solely Trump's decision, possibly because Rosenstein reportedly threatened to resign, because Trump had already made the decision.

This is a really good read  (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-trumps-anger-and-impatience-prompted-him-to-fire-the-fbi-director/2017/05/10/d9642334-359c-11e7-b373-418f6849a004_story.html?utm_term=.6130a4fc63de)on the Comey aftermath. Something like a dozen reporters worked on it with over 30 sources (!).

Spoiler: Trump fired Comey for not squelching the Russia investigation and not supporting him on his insane "Obama wiretapp" claims. And as you'd expect appears to be lying with his completely not-suspicious "you told me 3 times I'm not being investigated!" insertion.
Yes to all of this. But Sessions did also write a letter to Trump pushing for Comey's firing.

The 2nd document here: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/05/09/us/politics/document-White-House-Fires-James-Comey.html?_r=0
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: kozlodoev on May 11, 2017, 11:00:40 AM
Let's not forget to add that Trump's supposed reasoning for firing Comey was because Jeff Sessions recommended it. The same Jeff Sessions who promised to recuse himself from anything to do with the Russian investigation (because he lied under oath during his confirmation hearing and was still confirmed but sure) which I guess doesn't count pushing to have the man leading that investigation fired.

The WH initially claimed it was mainly due to the recommendation of Deputy AG Rosenstein, who wrote a letter basically attacking Comey's treatment of the Clinton email case but never explicitly calling for him to be fired.

That story changed very quickly to it being solely Trump's decision, possibly because Rosenstein reportedly threatened to resign, because Trump had already made the decision.

This is a really good read  (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-trumps-anger-and-impatience-prompted-him-to-fire-the-fbi-director/2017/05/10/d9642334-359c-11e7-b373-418f6849a004_story.html?utm_term=.6130a4fc63de)on the Comey aftermath. Something like a dozen reporters worked on it with over 30 sources (!).

Spoiler: Trump fired Comey for not squelching the Russia investigation and not supporting him on his insane "Obama wiretapp" claims. And as you'd expect appears to be lying with his completely not-suspicious "you told me 3 times I'm not being investigated!" insertion.
Yes to all of this. But Sessions did also write a letter to Trump pushing for Comey's firing.

The 2nd document here: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/05/09/us/politics/document-White-House-Fires-James-Comey.html?_r=0
The WaPo article does say that both Sessions and Rosenstein have been asked to come up with justification after the fact.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Roy H. on May 11, 2017, 11:03:01 AM
I hate to convict somebody based on nothing but conjecture, but seriously, is there any other answer than that:

A) Trump's administration did something shady regarding Russia; and/or

B) Trump is too stupid to know how bad this looks; and/or

C) Trump is too narcissistic to care how bad this looks?

While I get a small chuckle out of all the Dems now defending Comey (a man most thought was corrupt or incompetent), the principle here isn't all that funny. We have a highly political DOJ and court system already. Using the FBI for nakedly political purposes is bad for everyone.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Cman on May 11, 2017, 11:05:14 AM
I hate to convict somebody based on nothing but conjecture, but seriously, is there any other answer than that:

A) Trump's administration did something shady regarding Russia; and/or

B) Trump is too stupid to know how bad this looks; and/or

C) Trump is too narcissistic to care how bad this looks?

While I get a small chuckle out of all the Dems now defending Comey (a man most thought was corrupt or incompetent), the principle here isn't all that funny. We have a highly political DOJ and court system already. Using the FBI for nakedly political purposes is bad for everyone.

TP. I think this is well stated.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: FatKidsDad on May 11, 2017, 12:01:07 PM
I hate to convict somebody based on nothing but conjecture, but seriously, is there any other answer than that:

A) Trump's administration did something shady regarding Russia; and/or

B) Trump is too stupid to know how bad this looks; and/or

C) Trump is too narcissistic to care how bad this looks?

While I get a small chuckle out of all the Dems now defending Comey (a man most thought was corrupt or incompetent), the principle here isn't all that funny. We have a highly political DOJ and court system already. Using the FBI for nakedly political purposes is bad for everyone.

Add to this the chilling effect this has on employees at FBI and other agencies.

The clear message is if in the course of diligently doing your job you do something that displeases Trump, you do so at your own peril.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: indeedproceed on May 11, 2017, 12:44:09 PM
Spoiler: Trump fired Comey for not squelching the Russia investigation and not supporting him on his insane "Obama wiretapp" claims. And as you'd expect appears to be lying with his completely not-suspicious "you told me 3 times I'm not being investigated!" insertion.

That was one of the funnier parts of the stories being reported. Like, did Trump think nobody else would see the letter? Why in the world would you insert that if your gameplan was ultimately, "Blame it on the Democrats and Hillary, this has nothing to do with the Russia thing that is all made up"?

Maybe someone could superimpose some other speculative motive, but my speculative motive would be a little, "I told you once James, do not (mess) with me. This is what I do to people who mess with me".

What I hope happens here is that Comey goes full self-righteous and tediously explains just how real the Russia investigation really is. Hopefully while attempting to maintain moral superiority over what was obviously a mistake filled tenure.

I'm having mixed feelings regarding my congressperson. Elise Stefanik (R-NY) voted for the Wealthcare bill, but she has at times shown a spine in standing up to Trump. She has demanded his tax returns, she states she's committed to the Russia investigation, and today she questioned his firing of Comey (https://www.northcountrypublicradio.org/news/story/33925/20170511/stefanik-has-concerns-about-trump-s-firing-of-fbi-director). From some of the people in politics I know, she's 'heavily managed' by the big wigs in the NY Republican party but don't be surprised if she steps forward as some kind of Bizzaro-World Kirsten Gillibrand.

Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Vermont Green on May 11, 2017, 12:59:29 PM
I don't know what direct involvement Trump has in the Russian hacking.  No one does at this point.  Whether Trump had anything to do with it or not, the Russian hacking should be investigated.  We still need to know as best we can how this all went down and who was involved even if Trump wasn't involved at all as he claims.  We need to know this to punish any who were involved and to help prevent it from happening again.  I am suspicious of the motives of anyone who is suggesting this does not need to be fully investigated.  It does not have anything to do with whether or not there is any publicly available evidence linking Trump directly to it.

I am not a lawyer but I feel Trump's actions amount to obstruction of justice.  His tweets about Sally Yates prior to her testimony were clearly threatening and intended to influence her testimony (aka witness tampering).  Trump has tweeted, spoken, and now taken several actions (firing Yates, Comey, and who know what behind the scenes) to resist or hinder the investigation into the Russian hacking.  The White House has refused to provide information to the congressional investigating committees.  I am not sure why he would flirt with obstruction of justice if he had nothing to do with the Russians but he may be getting himself in as much trouble with these actions than if he is directly involved or in the know.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: jackpercussion on May 11, 2017, 02:08:47 PM
It really does not matter if the Russians influenced the election.  The United States influences elections all the time.  Besides, the United States won't do anything about it anyway other than say "please....pretty please.... don't do that anymore".  It's the RUSSIANS.  I'm surprised they have been this calm thus far.  If I were the Russians I would say to drop the matter immediately; or you will find nuclear subs off the east coast within days.  How is that for a response accusing us of hacking your election.

Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Vermont Green on May 11, 2017, 02:17:53 PM
It really does not matter if the Russians influenced the election.  The United States influences elections all the time.  Besides, the United States won't do anything about it anyway other than say "please....pretty please.... don't do that anymore".  It's the RUSSIANS.  I'm surprised they have been this calm thus far.  If I were the Russians I would say to drop the matter immediately; or you will find nuclear subs off the east coast within days.  How is that for a response accusing us of hacking your election.

Wow.  Does it matter to you if some Americans were involved (wittingly or otherwise)?  What exactly does matter if not this?
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: fairweatherfan on May 11, 2017, 02:27:38 PM
Let's not forget to add that Trump's supposed reasoning for firing Comey was because Jeff Sessions recommended it. The same Jeff Sessions who promised to recuse himself from anything to do with the Russian investigation (because he lied under oath during his confirmation hearing and was still confirmed but sure) which I guess doesn't count pushing to have the man leading that investigation fired.

The WH initially claimed it was mainly due to the recommendation of Deputy AG Rosenstein, who wrote a letter basically attacking Comey's treatment of the Clinton email case but never explicitly calling for him to be fired.

That story changed very quickly to it being solely Trump's decision, possibly because Rosenstein reportedly threatened to resign, because Trump had already made the decision.
Yes to all of this. But Sessions did also write a letter to Trump pushing for Comey's firing.

The 2nd document here: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/05/09/us/politics/document-White-House-Fires-James-Comey.html?_r=0
The WaPo article does say that both Sessions and Rosenstein have been asked to come up with justification after the fact.


They were, the "official" story in Trump's letter and repeated by the Press Sec, various surrogates and Pence yesterday was that the letters were the reason for his firing. Some like Pence emphasized the Deputy's letter because it was a more thorough policy argument.

And...funny story, after a flood of anonymous sources contradicting that story, today it was refuted by - Trump, who said in an interview with Lester Holt that he was gonna fire him regardless of the recommendation. Meaning the official WH story was bogus AND Trump just left half his administration and a bunch of other Republicans out to dry for defending it.

The other big excerpt is that Trump is defending his claim Comey directly told him 3 times he wasn't personally being investigated. If this is true (who knows), that's a sitting POTUS discussing an active investigation of his associates with the FBI director, on 3 separate occasions no less. That's far, far worse than the Bill Clinton-Loretta Lynch tarmac meeting that deservedly caught a ton of flak.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: slamtheking on May 11, 2017, 02:35:10 PM
I hate to convict somebody based on nothing but conjecture, but seriously, is there any other answer than that:

A) Trump's administration did something shady regarding Russia; and/or

B) Trump is too stupid to know how bad this looks; and/or

C) Trump is too narcissistic to care how bad this looks?

While I get a small chuckle out of all the Dems now defending Comey (a man most thought was corrupt or incompetent), the principle here isn't all that funny. We have a highly political DOJ and court system already. Using the FBI for nakedly political purposes is bad for everyone.
I don't think Dems (at least not here) are defending Comey but rather pointing out that firing him now is highly questionable and reeks of covering up or obstructing the Russian-link investigation.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: guava_wrench on May 11, 2017, 10:40:34 PM
I hate to convict somebody based on nothing but conjecture, but seriously, is there any other answer than that:

A) Trump's administration did something shady regarding Russia; and/or

B) Trump is too stupid to know how bad this looks; and/or

C) Trump is too narcissistic to care how bad this looks?

While I get a small chuckle out of all the Dems now defending Comey (a man most thought was corrupt or incompetent), the principle here isn't all that funny. We have a highly political DOJ and court system already. Using the FBI for nakedly political purposes is bad for everyone.
While I blame Comey for the election outcome, I do not think corruption was part of it. I think he was being political in a different way many assume. I think he assumed that Clinton was going to win and did want anyone to think he helped facilitate the outcome though a coverup. Unfortunately, that is exactly what happened when Trump won because he kept quite about the mounting Russia case while he was busy tainting the news with Weiner's computer nonsense.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: kraidstar on May 11, 2017, 11:20:02 PM
I hate to convict somebody based on nothing but conjecture, but seriously, is there any other answer than that:

A) Trump's administration did something shady regarding Russia; and/or

B) Trump is too stupid to know how bad this looks; and/or

C) Trump is too narcissistic to care how bad this looks?

While I get a small chuckle out of all the Dems now defending Comey (a man most thought was corrupt or incompetent), the principle here isn't all that funny. We have a highly political DOJ and court system already. Using the FBI for nakedly political purposes is bad for everyone.
I don't think Dems (at least not here) are defending Comey but rather pointing out that firing him now is highly questionable and reeks of covering up or obstructing the Russian-link investigation.
Yes.

And the real "chuckle" is that Repubs (and Trump himself) liked Comey up until Comey started investigating Trump.

Trump loved him up until the Flynn story broke, then he abruptly changed his tune, trying to scapegoat him for leaks, for Hillary, for supposed internal FBI dysfunction, and everything else under the sun that might possibly distract the media and public from the fact that something ugly is going on here, something that might eventually bring the administration down.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/here-s-timeline-trump-s-statements-comey-n757416
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: kraidstar on May 11, 2017, 11:35:08 PM
The silence from so many Republicans shows their incredible hypocrisy. Their enabling of the President undercuts and betrays the ideals of this country.

For years the right wing tried to portray Obama as some sort of anti-American enemy sympathizer, and yet they could never pin him in any scandal of significance.

And now we have a President who might actually have serious ties with anti-American interests, and has suffered a series of scandals many magnitudes greater than his predecessor.

It is mind-bogglingly ironic how things have worked out.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Roy H. on May 11, 2017, 11:51:58 PM
I hate to convict somebody based on nothing but conjecture, but seriously, is there any other answer than that:

A) Trump's administration did something shady regarding Russia; and/or

B) Trump is too stupid to know how bad this looks; and/or

C) Trump is too narcissistic to care how bad this looks?

While I get a small chuckle out of all the Dems now defending Comey (a man most thought was corrupt or incompetent), the principle here isn't all that funny. We have a highly political DOJ and court system already. Using the FBI for nakedly political purposes is bad for everyone.
I don't think Dems (at least not here) are defending Comey but rather pointing out that firing him now is highly questionable and reeks of covering up or obstructing the Russian-link investigation.
Yes.

And the real "chuckle" is that Repubs (and Trump himself) liked Comey up until Comey started investigating Trump.

Trump loved him up until the Flynn story broke, then he abruptly changed his tune, trying to scapegoat him for leaks, for Hillary, for supposed internal FBI dysfunction, and everything else under the sun that might possibly distract the media and public from the fact that something ugly is going on here, something that might eventually bring the administration down.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/here-s-timeline-trump-s-statements-comey-n757416

Republicans in general criticized Comey when he didn't recommend charges for Hillary, then applauded him when he announced the investigation was re-opened.  They were disappointed again when the investigation was quickly closed. I don't think Republicans ever "liked" him again after that, but he seemed off the radar until he wouldn't publicly take Trump's side.

Democrats, in general, seemed to have equally opposite opinions, applauding him when he cleared Hillary, and then accusing him of bias when he responded to Congress about the newly reopened investigation.

It's almost like most partisans base their like or dislike of America's top LEO on whether or not he's furthering their political objectives.

I can't really speak to Comey's competence relative to other FBI directors, but he seemed to care about the FBI and seemed to be trying to do his job. That he angered both parties probably speaks to him doing something right. I fear FBI Director will just become another job akin to the Attorney General, a job used almost solely to push partisan agendas.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: fairweatherfan on May 12, 2017, 08:50:07 AM
After stories came out from Comey associates that his post-election dinner with Trump involved Trump repeatedly asking for a promise of "loyalty", and Trump being stupid enough to literally link firing Comey with wanting the Russia investigation to end, the President of the United States is now threatening the former FBI chief on Twitter:

Quote
Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump

James Comey better hope that there are no "tapes" of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press!

This is all fine and normal and the real story is that Hillary Clinton sure is a bad person.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: blink on May 12, 2017, 11:52:47 AM
After stories came out from Comey associates that his post-election dinner with Trump involved Trump repeatedly asking for a promise of "loyalty", and Trump being stupid enough to literally link firing Comey with wanting the Russia investigation to end, the President of the United States is now threatening the former FBI chief on Twitter:

Quote
Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump

James Comey better hope that there are no "tapes" of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press!

This is all fine and normal and the real story is that Hillary Clinton sure is a bad person.

Trumps twitter storm today made me throw up in my mouth a bit.  But I have pretty much felt that way since the election, so nothing new.
 
I thought it was interesting that the assistant FBI director basically contradicted Trump on the fact that he says that Commey had wide support in the FBI.  Hopefully none of the evidence gathered so far in the investigation doesn't go 'missing' once the new FBI director is selected.  At this point I don't think the American public can trust trump or sessions.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: blink on May 12, 2017, 11:54:10 AM
I hate to convict somebody based on nothing but conjecture, but seriously, is there any other answer than that:

A) Trump's administration did something shady regarding Russia; and/or

B) Trump is too stupid to know how bad this looks; and/or

C) Trump is too narcissistic to care how bad this looks?

While I get a small chuckle out of all the Dems now defending Comey (a man most thought was corrupt or incompetent), the principle here isn't all that funny. We have a highly political DOJ and court system already. Using the FBI for nakedly political purposes is bad for everyone.
I don't think Dems (at least not here) are defending Comey but rather pointing out that firing him now is highly questionable and reeks of covering up or obstructing the Russian-link investigation.
Yes.

And the real "chuckle" is that Repubs (and Trump himself) liked Comey up until Comey started investigating Trump.

Trump loved him up until the Flynn story broke, then he abruptly changed his tune, trying to scapegoat him for leaks, for Hillary, for supposed internal FBI dysfunction, and everything else under the sun that might possibly distract the media and public from the fact that something ugly is going on here, something that might eventually bring the administration down.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/here-s-timeline-trump-s-statements-comey-n757416

Republicans in general criticized Comey when he didn't recommend charges for Hillary, then applauded him when he announced the investigation was re-opened.  They were disappointed again when the investigation was quickly closed. I don't think Republicans ever "liked" him again after that, but he seemed off the radar until he wouldn't publicly take Trump's side.

Democrats, in general, seemed to have equally opposite opinions, applauding him when he cleared Hillary, and then accusing him of bias when he responded to Congress about the newly reopened investigation.

It's almost like most partisans base their like or dislike of America's top LEO on whether or not he's furthering their political objectives.

I can't really speak to Comey's competence relative to other FBI directors, but he seemed to care about the FBI and seemed to be trying to do his job. That he angered both parties probably speaks to him doing something right. I fear FBI Director will just become another job akin to the Attorney General, a job used almost solely to push partisan agendas.

Your last paragraph seems dead on.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: slamtheking on May 12, 2017, 12:10:01 PM
After stories came out from Comey associates that his post-election dinner with Trump involved Trump repeatedly asking for a promise of "loyalty", and Trump being stupid enough to literally link firing Comey with wanting the Russia investigation to end, the President of the United States is now threatening the former FBI chief on Twitter:

Quote
Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump

James Comey better hope that there are no "tapes" of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press!

This is all fine and normal and the real story is that Hillary Clinton sure is a bad person.

Trumps twitter storm today made me throw up in my mouth a bit.  But I have pretty much felt that way since the election, so nothing new.
 
I thought it was interesting that the assistant FBI director basically contradicted Trump on the fact that he says that Commey had wide support in the FBI.  Hopefully none of the evidence gathered so far in the investigation doesn't go 'missing' once the new FBI director is selected.  At this point I don't think the American public can could ever trust trump or sessions.
fixed that for you
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: kraidstar on May 12, 2017, 12:17:38 PM
I hate to convict somebody based on nothing but conjecture, but seriously, is there any other answer than that:

A) Trump's administration did something shady regarding Russia; and/or

B) Trump is too stupid to know how bad this looks; and/or

C) Trump is too narcissistic to care how bad this looks?

While I get a small chuckle out of all the Dems now defending Comey (a man most thought was corrupt or incompetent), the principle here isn't all that funny. We have a highly political DOJ and court system already. Using the FBI for nakedly political purposes is bad for everyone.
I don't think Dems (at least not here) are defending Comey but rather pointing out that firing him now is highly questionable and reeks of covering up or obstructing the Russian-link investigation.
Yes.

And the real "chuckle" is that Repubs (and Trump himself) liked Comey up until Comey started investigating Trump.

Trump loved him up until the Flynn story broke, then he abruptly changed his tune, trying to scapegoat him for leaks, for Hillary, for supposed internal FBI dysfunction, and everything else under the sun that might possibly distract the media and public from the fact that something ugly is going on here, something that might eventually bring the administration down.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/here-s-timeline-trump-s-statements-comey-n757416

Republicans in general criticized Comey when he didn't recommend charges for Hillary, then applauded him when he announced the investigation was re-opened.  They were disappointed again when the investigation was quickly closed. I don't think Republicans ever "liked" him again after that, but he seemed off the radar until he wouldn't publicly take Trump's side.

Democrats, in general, seemed to have equally opposite opinions, applauding him when he cleared Hillary, and then accusing him of bias when he responded to Congress about the newly reopened investigation.

It's almost like most partisans base their like or dislike of America's top LEO on whether or not he's furthering their political objectives.

I can't really speak to Comey's competence relative to other FBI directors, but he seemed to care about the FBI and seemed to be trying to do his job. That he angered both parties probably speaks to him doing something right. I fear FBI Director will just become another job akin to the Attorney General, a job used almost solely to push partisan agendas.

I agree it is concerning that law enforcement appears to be becoming more political. Every law enforcement controversy, small or large, seems to have political divides. That is unfortunate.

But after living through the Ken Starr investigation of Clinton, the Benghazi witch hunt against Hillary, and then the ill-timed Comey "revelation" 10 days before the election - a revelation somehow predicted by a gleeful Rudy Giuliani on national TV just a couple days earlier - it's hard to think of these investigations as anything but political.

I don't think liberals hate Comey so much as they hate the political machine that undoubtedly pressured him into taking the unprecedented actions that he did.

Were there any equivalent witch hunts against the Bush administration? The 9/11 commission wasn't particularly political, despite 9/11 being a security failure that was 1000x times worse than Benghazi. And most Presidents would have been sunk by the WMD/CIA/Scooter Libby scandal, but that one received relatively limited press.

And now we have a President accused of colluding with an enemy nation because of business ties, and he is blatantly tampering with the investigation. And Republicans have been largely silent about it.

As a liberal I don't want witch hunts or kangaroo courts - such low political acts are bad for our country, and in part instigate the partisan anger you describe.

But I do want to see Trump properly investigated. Maybe Trump is innocent, but he certainly isn't acting like it.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: kraidstar on May 12, 2017, 12:20:48 PM
After stories came out from Comey associates that his post-election dinner with Trump involved Trump repeatedly asking for a promise of "loyalty", and Trump being stupid enough to literally link firing Comey with wanting the Russia investigation to end, the President of the United States is now threatening the former FBI chief on Twitter:

Quote
Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump

James Comey better hope that there are no "tapes" of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press!

This is all fine and normal and the real story is that Hillary Clinton sure is a bad person.

If the Republicans were smart they would just impeach Trump now and replace him with Mike "Mr. Insurance" Pence.

We're only a few months into this Presidency... This is only going to get worse.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: GratefulCs on May 12, 2017, 01:05:53 PM
It's amazing to me to see so many here believing the MSM talking points on Russia, do some digging on Democrats admitting there IS NO EVIDENCE tying Trump to Russia, start with Clapper and Comey himself telling Trump 3 times that there was no investigation into the Trump connection being done by the FBI, 9 months they've been pushing this narrative and there is NOTHING there,  it's a talking point to rally the troops and fund raise, that's about it , Comey has disgraced the FBI by NOT bringing charges against Hillary, there should only be a 1 tiered Justice system in this Country not 2 for those like Hillary who think they are above the law(Repub's too), if they put someone in place that will do his job to the letter of the Law, Hillary WILL go to jail, where she belongs. Why don't the MSM do a little digging on Hillary on about the 20% of all our Plutonium she sold off to the Russians, NOW there's a real story the Dem's and the MSM won't touch.    p.s. I'm an Independent voter, just in case you were wondering.
you are literally just taking trump at his word
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: MBunge on May 12, 2017, 01:19:31 PM
It's amazing to me to see so many here believing the MSM talking points on Russia, do some digging on Democrats admitting there IS NO EVIDENCE tying Trump to Russia, start with Clapper and Comey himself telling Trump 3 times that there was no investigation into the Trump connection being done by the FBI, 9 months they've been pushing this narrative and there is NOTHING there,  it's a talking point to rally the troops and fund raise, that's about it , Comey has disgraced the FBI by NOT bringing charges against Hillary, there should only be a 1 tiered Justice system in this Country not 2 for those like Hillary who think they are above the law(Repub's too), if they put someone in place that will do his job to the letter of the Law, Hillary WILL go to jail, where she belongs. Why don't the MSM do a little digging on Hillary on about the 20% of all our Plutonium she sold off to the Russians, NOW there's a real story the Dem's and the MSM won't touch.    p.s. I'm an Independent voter, just in case you were wondering.
you are literally just taking trump at his word

It seems more like he's just not buying into the butthurt hysteria of a lot of people who were so wrong about the election that they are undergoing an existential crisis.

1.  There's been little to no evidence presented to support the allegations about Russia and the 2016 election.

2.  Even if Russia actually did the stuff they're being accused of, THEY DID NOT NEED TO COLLUDE/COOPERATE/COORDINATE WITH TRUMP OR HIS CAMPAIGN TO DO ANY OF IT.

3.  Why would the Russians have even wanted to collude with Trump, WHO EVERYONE IN THE WORLD WAS 10000000% SURE WAS GOING TO LOSE THE ELECTION?  If you're going to tell me the Russians knew Trump was going to win, I'm going to tell  you we need to make friends with them immediately because the Russians are the smartest people in the world.

Has Trump lied about having past business dealings with Russia?  Could those supposed dealings have left him more favorably disposed toward Russia than an American President should be?  Those are not at all unreasonable concerns.

This childish nonsense about Trump being some sort of Manchurian Candidate installed by Russian interference in the 2016 election is turning into something even worse than birtherism, because at least that only winked at by most mainstream Republicans as opposed to what we're seeing from Democrats and the media now.

Mike
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: GratefulCs on May 12, 2017, 01:40:11 PM
It's amazing to me to see so many here believing the MSM talking points on Russia, do some digging on Democrats admitting there IS NO EVIDENCE tying Trump to Russia, start with Clapper and Comey himself telling Trump 3 times that there was no investigation into the Trump connection being done by the FBI, 9 months they've been pushing this narrative and there is NOTHING there,  it's a talking point to rally the troops and fund raise, that's about it , Comey has disgraced the FBI by NOT bringing charges against Hillary, there should only be a 1 tiered Justice system in this Country not 2 for those like Hillary who think they are above the law(Repub's too), if they put someone in place that will do his job to the letter of the Law, Hillary WILL go to jail, where she belongs. Why don't the MSM do a little digging on Hillary on about the 20% of all our Plutonium she sold off to the Russians, NOW there's a real story the Dem's and the MSM won't touch.    p.s. I'm an Independent voter, just in case you were wondering.
you are literally just taking trump at his word

It seems more like he's just not buying into the butthurt hysteria of a lot of people who were so wrong about the election that they are undergoing an existential crisis.

1.  There's been little to no evidence presented to support the allegations about Russia and the 2016 election.

2.  Even if Russia actually did the stuff they're being accused of, THEY DID NOT NEED TO COLLUDE/COOPERATE/COORDINATE WITH TRUMP OR HIS CAMPAIGN TO DO ANY OF IT.

3.  Why would the Russians have even wanted to collude with Trump, WHO EVERYONE IN THE WORLD WAS 10000000% SURE WAS GOING TO LOSE THE ELECTION?  If you're going to tell me the Russians knew Trump was going to win, I'm going to tell  you we need to make friends with them immediately because the Russians are the smartest people in the world.

Has Trump lied about having past business dealings with Russia?  Could those supposed dealings have left him more favorably disposed toward Russia than an American President should be?  Those are not at all unreasonable concerns.

This childish nonsense about Trump being some sort of Manchurian Candidate installed by Russian interference in the 2016 election is turning into something even worse than birtherism, because at least that only winked at by most mainstream Republicans as opposed to what we're seeing from Democrats and the media now.

Mike
i hear ya

but what i responded to earlier was just about that bolded line

comey has stated that there IS an investigation

i'm not saying there's a conclusion that people on the trump campaign are guilty of anything
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Evantime34 on May 12, 2017, 01:56:36 PM
It's amazing to me to see so many here believing the MSM talking points on Russia, do some digging on Democrats admitting there IS NO EVIDENCE tying Trump to Russia, start with Clapper and Comey himself telling Trump 3 times that there was no investigation into the Trump connection being done by the FBI, 9 months they've been pushing this narrative and there is NOTHING there,  it's a talking point to rally the troops and fund raise, that's about it , Comey has disgraced the FBI by NOT bringing charges against Hillary, there should only be a 1 tiered Justice system in this Country not 2 for those like Hillary who think they are above the law(Repub's too), if they put someone in place that will do his job to the letter of the Law, Hillary WILL go to jail, where she belongs. Why don't the MSM do a little digging on Hillary on about the 20% of all our Plutonium she sold off to the Russians, NOW there's a real story the Dem's and the MSM won't touch.    p.s. I'm an Independent voter, just in case you were wondering.
you are literally just taking trump at his word

It seems more like he's just not buying into the butthurt hysteria of a lot of people who were so wrong about the election that they are undergoing an existential crisis.

1.  There's been little to no evidence presented to support the allegations about Russia and the 2016 election.

2.  Even if Russia actually did the stuff they're being accused of, THEY DID NOT NEED TO COLLUDE/COOPERATE/COORDINATE WITH TRUMP OR HIS CAMPAIGN TO DO ANY OF IT.

3.  Why would the Russians have even wanted to collude with Trump, WHO EVERYONE IN THE WORLD WAS 10000000% SURE WAS GOING TO LOSE THE ELECTION?  If you're going to tell me the Russians knew Trump was going to win, I'm going to tell  you we need to make friends with them immediately because the Russians are the smartest people in the world.

Has Trump lied about having past business dealings with Russia?  Could those supposed dealings have left him more favorably disposed toward Russia than an American President should be?  Those are not at all unreasonable concerns.

This childish nonsense about Trump being some sort of Manchurian Candidate installed by Russian interference in the 2016 election is turning into something even worse than birtherism, because at least that only winked at by most mainstream Republicans as opposed to what we're seeing from Democrats and the media now.

Mike
I think this could very well be a situation where the cover up is perceived as worse than the crime. Trump probably wins even without Russian interference, and I doubt he had a hand in the Russian interference. However, him firing Comey, not releasing his tax returns and having multiple people associated with his campaign linked to Russia makes him look guilty.

He has handled the Russian situation as poorly as possible and I think he's going to do something/has already done something illegal trying to sweep the Russian thing under the rug.

I have a lot more issue with how Trump and his family seem to be running the presidency as a for profit business to enrich himself than any of the Russian stuff.

Independent of what you think of the Russian thing, you have to admit that firing Comey when they did looks really bad right?
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: arctic 3.0 on May 12, 2017, 02:10:55 PM
It's amazing to me to see so many here believing the MSM talking points on Russia, do some digging on Democrats admitting there IS NO EVIDENCE tying Trump to Russia, start with Clapper and Comey himself telling Trump 3 times that there was no investigation into the Trump connection being done by the FBI, 9 months they've been pushing this narrative and there is NOTHING there,  it's a talking point to rally the troops and fund raise, that's about it , Comey has disgraced the FBI by NOT bringing charges against Hillary, there should only be a 1 tiered Justice system in this Country not 2 for those like Hillary who think they are above the law(Repub's too), if they put someone in place that will do his job to the letter of the Law, Hillary WILL go to jail, where she belongs. Why don't the MSM do a little digging on Hillary on about the 20% of all our Plutonium she sold off to the Russians, NOW there's a real story the Dem's and the MSM won't touch.    p.s. I'm an Independent voter, just in case you were wondering.
you are literally just taking trump at his word

It seems more like he's just not buying into the butthurt hysteria of a lot of people who were so wrong about the election that they are undergoing an existential crisis.

1.  There's been little to no evidence presented to support the allegations about Russia and the 2016 election.

2.  Even if Russia actually did the stuff they're being accused of, THEY DID NOT NEED TO COLLUDE/COOPERATE/COORDINATE WITH TRUMP OR HIS CAMPAIGN TO DO ANY OF IT.

3.  Why would the Russians have even wanted to collude with Trump, WHO EVERYONE IN THE WORLD WAS 10000000% SURE WAS GOING TO LOSE THE ELECTION?  If you're going to tell me the Russians knew Trump was going to win, I'm going to tell  you we need to make friends with them immediately because the Russians are the smartest people in the world.

Has Trump lied about having past business dealings with Russia?  Could those supposed dealings have left him more favorably disposed toward Russia than an American President should be?  Those are not at all unreasonable concerns.

This childish nonsense about Trump being some sort of Manchurian Candidate installed by Russian interference in the 2016 election is turning into something even worse than birtherism, because at least that only winked at by most mainstream Republicans as opposed to what we're seeing from Democrats and the media now.

Mike

Mannafort, Flynn, Page, Stone
Where there is smoke...
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/05/05/us/politics/senate-russia-trump-associates.html
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: fairweatherfan on May 12, 2017, 02:26:35 PM
White House is refusing to confirm or deny that there are secret recording devices in the White House or that Comey specifically was recorded.   :o

I veer more toward dismay than schadenfreude on this stuff but it really is remarkable watching Trump dig himself a bigger and bigger hole with his own stupid mouth, and go out of his way to bring in yet another Watergate parallel in the process.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on May 12, 2017, 02:37:42 PM
I hate to convict somebody based on nothing but conjecture, but seriously, is there any other answer than that:

A) Trump's administration did something shady regarding Russia; and/or

B) Trump is too stupid to know how bad this looks; and/or

C) Trump is too narcissistic to care how bad this looks?

While I get a small chuckle out of all the Dems now defending Comey (a man most thought was corrupt or incompetent), the principle here isn't all that funny. We have a highly political DOJ and court system already. Using the FBI for nakedly political purposes is bad for everyone.
I don't think Dems (at least not here) are defending Comey but rather pointing out that firing him now is highly questionable and reeks of covering up or obstructing the Russian-link investigation.
Yes.

And the real "chuckle" is that Repubs (and Trump himself) liked Comey up until Comey started investigating Trump.

Trump loved him up until the Flynn story broke, then he abruptly changed his tune, trying to scapegoat him for leaks, for Hillary, for supposed internal FBI dysfunction, and everything else under the sun that might possibly distract the media and public from the fact that something ugly is going on here, something that might eventually bring the administration down.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/here-s-timeline-trump-s-statements-comey-n757416

Republicans in general criticized Comey when he didn't recommend charges for Hillary, then applauded him when he announced the investigation was re-opened.  They were disappointed again when the investigation was quickly closed. I don't think Republicans ever "liked" him again after that, but he seemed off the radar until he wouldn't publicly take Trump's side.

Democrats, in general, seemed to have equally opposite opinions, applauding him when he cleared Hillary, and then accusing him of bias when he responded to Congress about the newly reopened investigation.

It's almost like most partisans base their like or dislike of America's top LEO on whether or not he's furthering their political objectives.

I can't really speak to Comey's competence relative to other FBI directors, but he seemed to care about the FBI and seemed to be trying to do his job. That he angered both parties probably speaks to him doing something right. I fear FBI Director will just become another job akin to the Attorney General, a job used almost solely to push partisan agendas.

Or handled a lot of issues carelessly.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Jon on May 12, 2017, 02:46:50 PM
It's amazing to me to see so many here believing the MSM talking points on Russia, do some digging on Democrats admitting there IS NO EVIDENCE tying Trump to Russia, start with Clapper and Comey himself telling Trump 3 times that there was no investigation into the Trump connection being done by the FBI, 9 months they've been pushing this narrative and there is NOTHING there,  it's a talking point to rally the troops and fund raise, that's about it , Comey has disgraced the FBI by NOT bringing charges against Hillary, there should only be a 1 tiered Justice system in this Country not 2 for those like Hillary who think they are above the law(Repub's too), if they put someone in place that will do his job to the letter of the Law, Hillary WILL go to jail, where she belongs. Why don't the MSM do a little digging on Hillary on about the 20% of all our Plutonium she sold off to the Russians, NOW there's a real story the Dem's and the MSM won't touch.    p.s. I'm an Independent voter, just in case you were wondering.
you are literally just taking trump at his word

It seems more like he's just not buying into the butthurt hysteria of a lot of people who were so wrong about the election that they are undergoing an existential crisis.

1.  There's been little to no evidence presented to support the allegations about Russia and the 2016 election.

2.  Even if Russia actually did the stuff they're being accused of, THEY DID NOT NEED TO COLLUDE/COOPERATE/COORDINATE WITH TRUMP OR HIS CAMPAIGN TO DO ANY OF IT.

3.  Why would the Russians have even wanted to collude with Trump, WHO EVERYONE IN THE WORLD WAS 10000000% SURE WAS GOING TO LOSE THE ELECTION?  If you're going to tell me the Russians knew Trump was going to win, I'm going to tell  you we need to make friends with them immediately because the Russians are the smartest people in the world.

Has Trump lied about having past business dealings with Russia?  Could those supposed dealings have left him more favorably disposed toward Russia than an American President should be?  Those are not at all unreasonable concerns.

This childish nonsense about Trump being some sort of Manchurian Candidate installed by Russian interference in the 2016 election is turning into something even worse than birtherism, because at least that only winked at by most mainstream Republicans as opposed to what we're seeing from Democrats and the media now.

Mike

Mannafort, Flynn, Page, Stone
Where there is smoke...
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/05/05/us/politics/senate-russia-trump-associates.html

Exactly. And I don't think the Russians wanted Trump in office as a Manchurian Candidate, I think they wanted him in office to lower America's standing in the world and help them gain power. And clearly, at least the first part is working, as Trump is taking the Office of the Presidency to new lows daily.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: littleteapot on May 12, 2017, 03:38:46 PM
Why would the Russians have even wanted to collude with Trump, WHO EVERYONE IN THE WORLD WAS 10000000% SURE WAS GOING TO LOSE THE ELECTION?  If you're going to tell me the Russians knew Trump was going to win, I'm going to tell  you we need to make friends with them immediately because the Russians are the smartest people in the world.
I don't think Russia cared if he won. Just getting Trump nominated forced the party that is typically more anti-Russia (the Republicans) to back a guy who wasn't anti-Russia. And as long as Trump made it close and made Hillary look bad, that helps undermine Hillary's foreign policy agenda and her credibility. Actually getting him in power was a bonus that even Putin probably didn't ever expect to happen.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: kozlodoev on May 12, 2017, 03:53:45 PM
Why would the Russians have even wanted to collude with Trump, WHO EVERYONE IN THE WORLD WAS 10000000% SURE WAS GOING TO LOSE THE ELECTION?  If you're going to tell me the Russians knew Trump was going to win, I'm going to tell  you we need to make friends with them immediately because the Russians are the smartest people in the world.
I don't think Russia cared if he won. Just getting Trump nominated forced the party that is typically more anti-Russia (the Republicans) to back a guy who wasn't anti-Russia. And as long as Trump made it close and made Hillary look bad, that helps undermine Hillary's foreign policy agenda and her credibility. Actually getting him in power was a bonus that even Putin probably didn't ever expect to happen.
I'm pretty sure they (a) thought he could win, and (b) cared quite a bit that he did. I'm also convinced they were looking to use the chaos that would inevitably ensue to reestablish themselves as a relevant international actor. Much harder to do this with a seasoned, hawkish Clinton administration committed to maintaining sanctions.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Roy H. on May 12, 2017, 04:08:10 PM
Why would the Russians have even wanted to collude with Trump, WHO EVERYONE IN THE WORLD WAS 10000000% SURE WAS GOING TO LOSE THE ELECTION?  If you're going to tell me the Russians knew Trump was going to win, I'm going to tell  you we need to make friends with them immediately because the Russians are the smartest people in the world.
I don't think Russia cared if he won. Just getting Trump nominated forced the party that is typically more anti-Russia (the Republicans) to back a guy who wasn't anti-Russia. And as long as Trump made it close and made Hillary look bad, that helps undermine Hillary's foreign policy agenda and her credibility. Actually getting him in power was a bonus that even Putin probably didn't ever expect to happen.

Ironically, Hillary wanted Trump to win the nomination, too. Be careful what you wish for, I guess.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Fan from VT on May 12, 2017, 04:20:31 PM
Why would the Russians have even wanted to collude with Trump, WHO EVERYONE IN THE WORLD WAS 10000000% SURE WAS GOING TO LOSE THE ELECTION?  If you're going to tell me the Russians knew Trump was going to win, I'm going to tell  you we need to make friends with them immediately because the Russians are the smartest people in the world.
I don't think Russia cared if he won. Just getting Trump nominated forced the party that is typically more anti-Russia (the Republicans) to back a guy who wasn't anti-Russia. And as long as Trump made it close and made Hillary look bad, that helps undermine Hillary's foreign policy agenda and her credibility. Actually getting him in power was a bonus that even Putin probably didn't ever expect to happen.
I'm pretty sure they (a) thought he could win, and (b) cared quite a bit that he did. I'm also convinced they were looking to use the chaos that would inevitably ensue to reestablish themselves as a relevant international actor. Much harder to do this with a seasoned, hawkish Clinton administration committed to maintaining sanctions.

Russia is backing hard right movements all over the world, and it is clear why. Hard right policies weaken stable nations. It increases wealth gaps and allows foreign and domestic oligarchs to profit and consolidate power; it decreases labor protections and allows more exploitation and more exploitable trade. It increases fear and instability, allowing consolidation of power and tolerance of militarization and decreases social mobility. In Trump's case, from Russia's perspective, you get all that plus the leader is incompetent. Win win.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: KG Living Legend on May 12, 2017, 04:43:55 PM

 5 reasons why this is worse than Watergate.

 https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/05/comey-watergate/526443/
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Big333223 on May 13, 2017, 10:44:08 AM
Why would the Russians have even wanted to collude with Trump, WHO EVERYONE IN THE WORLD WAS 10000000% SURE WAS GOING TO LOSE THE ELECTION?  If you're going to tell me the Russians knew Trump was going to win, I'm going to tell  you we need to make friends with them immediately because the Russians are the smartest people in the world.
I don't think Russia cared if he won. Just getting Trump nominated forced the party that is typically more anti-Russia (the Republicans) to back a guy who wasn't anti-Russia. And as long as Trump made it close and made Hillary look bad, that helps undermine Hillary's foreign policy agenda and her credibility. Actually getting him in power was a bonus that even Putin probably didn't ever expect to happen.
I'm pretty sure they (a) thought he could win, and (b) cared quite a bit that he did. I'm also convinced they were looking to use the chaos that would inevitably ensue to reestablish themselves as a relevant international actor. Much harder to do this with a seasoned, hawkish Clinton administration committed to maintaining sanctions.

Russia is backing hard right movements all over the world, and it is clear why. Hard right policies weaken stable nations. It increases wealth gaps and allows foreign and domestic oligarchs to profit and consolidate power; it decreases labor protections and allows more exploitation and more exploitable trade. It increases fear and instability, allowing consolidation of power and tolerance of militarization and decreases social mobility. In Trump's case, from Russia's perspective, you get all that plus the leader is incompetent. Win win.
I think what he's backing are candidates who pursue nativism. Important countries like the US and France receding from the global conversation can only help Russia especially if you're adding a healthy dose of ridiculous infighting for those countries.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Roy H. on June 07, 2017, 05:51:13 PM
Comey's prepared remarks didn't include much of anything that hadn't already been reported:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-wanted-loyalty-halt-flynn-probe-10-takeaways-comeys-prepared-testimony-190857713.html

I guess the biggest takeaway is that to date, Trump himself isn't being investigated for impropriety, but it was at least possible / foreseeable  that he might be in the future.

We'll see if anything else comes out during questioning.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Amonkey on June 07, 2017, 06:00:57 PM
Comey's prepared remarks didn't include much of anything that hadn't already been reported:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-wanted-loyalty-halt-flynn-probe-10-takeaways-comeys-prepared-testimony-190857713.html

I guess the biggest takeaway is that to date, Trump himself isn't being investigated for impropriety, but it was at least possible / foreseeable  that he might be in the future.

We'll see if anything else comes out during questioning.

I was pretty amazed how accurate the reported information is to what Comey said. I know there were attempts at saying that the reports were fake news but reading his statement, they quoted him pretty well.

On another note moving away from politics, anybody else interested in the espionage aspect of this whole thing? There was a section on how they handle foreign agents that I thoughtit was interesting. Something along the words that they either flip them so they become double agents, continue to follow them, find other contacts and infiltrate them or arrest them. Seems like they only arrest if they are no use to them. Interesting stuff
Title: The James Comey Hearing Thread
Post by: Beat LA on June 08, 2017, 06:00:18 AM
I'm just making this for everyone ahead of today's testimony.  The ratings are gonna be YUGE. *grabs popcorn* #ComeyDontPlayThat
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: kozlodoev on June 08, 2017, 06:47:31 AM
Comey's prepared remarks didn't include much of anything that hadn't already been reported:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-wanted-loyalty-halt-flynn-probe-10-takeaways-comeys-prepared-testimony-190857713.html

I guess the biggest takeaway is that to date, Trump himself isn't being investigated for impropriety, but it was at least possible / foreseeable  that he might be in the future.

We'll see if anything else comes out during questioning.
The biggest takeaway here is that everyone that's been reported is now on the record, so you can no longer call it "fake news". It's one thing to see it in a Washington Post article, and completely different when it is delivered under oath before Congress.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Roy H. on June 08, 2017, 07:08:45 AM
Comey's prepared remarks didn't include much of anything that hadn't already been reported:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-wanted-loyalty-halt-flynn-probe-10-takeaways-comeys-prepared-testimony-190857713.html

I guess the biggest takeaway is that to date, Trump himself isn't being investigated for impropriety, but it was at least possible / foreseeable  that he might be in the future.

We'll see if anything else comes out during questioning.
The biggest takeaway here is that everyone that's been reported is now on the record, so you can no longer call it "fake news". It's one thing to see it in a Washington Post article, and completely different when it is delivered under oath before Congress.

You underestimate Trump and Breitbart. It will still be fake news.

But, truthfully, there's no true smoking gun here. Maybe something will come out, but there's nothing that's going to lead to impeachment. Slimy, unbecoming, politics as usual, perhaps, but probably not proveably illegal or impeachable.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Celtics4ever on June 08, 2017, 07:46:00 AM
At the end of the day, won't it be Comey's word against Trump's.   I know the majority of us would side with Comey about that.   But I fear this is much ado about nothing and will be little more than a partisan exercise for both sides.  Perhaps Comey taped him and that could change the narrative...
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: heyvik on June 08, 2017, 09:39:21 AM
At the end of the day, won't it be Comey's word against Trump's.   I know the majority of us would side with Comey about that.   But I fear this is much ado about nothing and will be little more than a partisan exercise for both sides.  Perhaps Comey taped him and that could change the narrative...

it will be completely partisian. Mostly all Democrats will say - "There's the smoking gun" and the Republicans will say - "Nothing to see here move on. Trump's management was misconstrued by Comey."
What's sickening is that some Republicans and Trump supporters will continue to deny, deny and deny.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Cman on June 08, 2017, 09:47:20 AM
At the end of the day, won't it be Comey's word against Trump's.   I know the majority of us would side with Comey about that.   But I fear this is much ado about nothing and will be little more than a partisan exercise for both sides.  Perhaps Comey taped him and that could change the narrative...

Maybe.

The sad thing about all of this is that because of Trump's selfishness, vindictiveness, and pettiness, we are now less likely to get (a) tax reform, (b) infrastructure spending plan, (c) health care reform.

Frankly, the way Trump was going about some of these, I'm not *too* sad. But I was holding out hope on (a) and (b)...

If you had told me the night Trump was elected that, 100+ days in, Trump would have accomplished nothing, I would have been disappointed.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: heyvik on June 08, 2017, 10:08:03 AM
At the end of the day, won't it be Comey's word against Trump's.   I know the majority of us would side with Comey about that.   But I fear this is much ado about nothing and will be little more than a partisan exercise for both sides.  Perhaps Comey taped him and that could change the narrative...

Maybe.

The sad thing about all of this is that because of Trump's selfishness, vindictiveness, and pettiness, we are now less likely to get (a) tax reform, (b) infrastructure spending plan, (c) health care reform.

Frankly, the way Trump was going about some of these, I'm not *too* sad. But I was holding out hope on (a) and (b)...

If you had told me the night Trump was elected that, 100+ days in, Trump would have accomplished nothing, I would have been disappointed.

But if you listen to Trump Supporters - they'd say that he's done soooo much more that Obama did at this time. Trump supports will say that he's signed laws, when actually all he's really done is roll back regulations from the previous administration.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Cman on June 08, 2017, 10:18:57 AM
Here's Comey's letter (probably posted a few pages back as well): http://im.ft-static.com/content/images/4cb442cc-4bac-11e7-919a-1e14ce4af89b.img
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: ETNCeltics on June 08, 2017, 10:26:10 AM
At the end of the day, won't it be Comey's word against Trump's.   I know the majority of us would side with Comey about that.   But I fear this is much ado about nothing and will be little more than a partisan exercise for both sides.  Perhaps Comey taped him and that could change the narrative...

Maybe.

The sad thing about all of this is that because of Trump's selfishness, vindictiveness, and pettiness, we are now less likely to get (a) tax reform, (b) infrastructure spending plan, (c) health care reform.

Frankly, the way Trump was going about some of these, I'm not *too* sad. But I was holding out hope on (a) and (b)...

If you had told me the night Trump was elected that, 100+ days in, Trump would have accomplished nothing, I would have been disappointed.

But if you listen to Trump Supporters - they'd say that he's done soooo much more that Obama did at this time. Trump supports will say that he's signed laws, when actually all he's really done is roll back regulations from the previous administration.
Trump hasn't done much of anything other than rescind executive orders.

I am not a Trump supporter. I support neither party. Both represent bloated, enormous, wasteful government. But what could Trump do? You have 2 political parties, centered primarily in the Senate, whose main function is to keep the status quo. If Trump, or anyone else, tries to disrupt the continued operation of the machine that has made most of them wealthy and powerful, they're going to do everything they can to stop him. The left will do it openly since Trump is a republican; senate republicans - for the most part - will do it behind closed doors.

We're going to be bankrupt and eventually in a civil war if there isn't massive change in Washington.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: indeedproceed on June 08, 2017, 11:12:07 AM
https://twitter.com/PoliticoKevin/status/872299595518414848

Donald Trump, running our country like a cut rate used car salesman with mild mob ties.

Highlight of the hearing so far: Ascertain that the President was not instructing Comey to let Flynn go because the President said to Comey, "I hope you..." instead of "I command you.."

Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: FatKidsDad on June 08, 2017, 11:26:01 AM
https://twitter.com/PoliticoKevin/status/872299595518414848

Donald Trump, running our country like a cut rate used car salesman with mild mob ties.

Highlight of the hearing so far: Ascertain that the President was not instructing Comey to let Flynn go because the President said to Comey, "I hope you..." instead of "I command you.."
Nice little place you have here...I hope nothing happens to it
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Cman on June 08, 2017, 12:56:27 PM
https://twitter.com/PoliticoKevin/status/872299595518414848

Donald Trump, running our country like a cut rate used car salesman with mild mob ties.

Highlight of the hearing so far: Ascertain that the President was not instructing Comey to let Flynn go because the President said to Comey, "I hope you..." instead of "I command you.."

Lowlight: everyone realizing McCain is past his prime. Way past his prime.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: nickagneta on June 08, 2017, 01:01:17 PM
https://twitter.com/PoliticoKevin/status/872299595518414848

Donald Trump, running our country like a cut rate used car salesman with mild mob ties.

Highlight of the hearing so far: Ascertain that the President was not instructing Comey to let Flynn go because the President said to Comey, "I hope you..." instead of "I command you.."

Lowlight: everyone realizing McCain is past his prime. Way past his prime.
McCain looked and sounded lost and confused. Very sad. Wonder if dementia is setting in.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: indeedproceed on June 08, 2017, 01:03:46 PM
https://twitter.com/PoliticoKevin/status/872299595518414848

Donald Trump, running our country like a cut rate used car salesman with mild mob ties.

Highlight of the hearing so far: Ascertain that the President was not instructing Comey to let Flynn go because the President said to Comey, "I hope you..." instead of "I command you.."

Lowlight: everyone realizing McCain is past his prime. Way past his prime.
McCain looked lost and confused. Very sad.

Didn't watch but listened, it was tough to hear. McCain didn't sound like today was a good day.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: nickagneta on June 08, 2017, 01:13:37 PM
Interesting stuff:

Comey saying he hopes Trump does have tapes of his recordings.

Comey outright calling Trump a liar

Comey saying right after his meeting with President that the President hoped the Flynn investigation would go away. Interesting because if Comey is lying about that he decided to make up this story with minutes of leaving that meeting. That makes no logical sense.

The amount of questions that were asked that the American public wants to know but can't because they can only be answered in closed session.

That there was no tweets from Trump during the testimony. Thought that was a certainty.

Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Cman on June 08, 2017, 08:00:45 PM
Interesting stuff:

Comey saying he hopes Trump does have tapes of his recordings.

Comey outright calling Trump a liar

Comey saying right after his meeting with President that the President hoped the Flynn investigation would go away. Interesting because if Comey is lying about that he decided to make up this story with minutes of leaving that meeting. That makes no logical sense.

The amount of questions that were asked that the American public wants to know but can't because they can only be answered in closed session.

That there was no tweets from Trump during the testimony. Thought that was a certainty.

Comey basically called out Trump. Said he was a liar.
The question is how Trump responds. If he's smart, he won't. He'll just let the Russia investigation run its course.

Question for C bloggers:
1. Do you believe that Trump asked/urged Comey to go light on Flynn?
2. Do you believe that Trump asked/urged Comey to make the Russia investigation to go away?
3. Do you believe either of these amount to obstruction of justice?
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: MBunge on June 08, 2017, 08:23:53 PM
Just so everyone is clear.

1.  Comey testified that Trump NEVER directly told him to stop investigating Russia.

2.  Comey testified that Trump was actually IN FAVOR of the overall probe of Russian interference in the 2016 election.

3.  Comey testified that Trump was NOT being investigated, which means Trump was telling the truth about that.

4.  Comey testified that many of media stories about Russia and the 2016 election are DEAD WRONG.

5.  Comey testified that he DID leak information, but by some wild coincidence only info that was negative for Trump made it to the media while info that was positive for Trump remained secret.

Mike
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: rondohondo on June 08, 2017, 08:50:34 PM
Comey is a Clinton operative.

You can look it up, he was on boards that were connected to Clinton all the way back to white water.

This is a total witch hunt/ dems trying to undermine Trump

What a government we have...
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Cman on June 08, 2017, 08:52:00 PM
Just so everyone is clear.

1.  Comey testified that Trump NEVER directly told him to stop investigating Russia.

2.  Comey testified that Trump was actually IN FAVOR of the overall probe of Russian interference in the 2016 election.

3.  Comey testified that Trump was NOT being investigated, which means Trump was telling the truth about that.

4.  Comey testified that many of media stories about Russia and the 2016 election are DEAD WRONG.

5.  Comey testified that he DID leak information, but by some wild coincidence only info that was negative for Trump made it to the media while info that was positive for Trump remained secret.

Mike

So I've got you down as:
1) No
2) No
3) No, because of answer to 1, 2 above.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Cman on June 08, 2017, 08:55:08 PM
Comey is a Clinton operative.

You can look it up, he was on boards that were connected to Clinton all the way back to white water.

This is a total witch hunt/ dems trying to undermine Trump

What a government we have...


You can't have it both ways.

Either Comey is untrustworthy (and so nothing he says can vindicate Trump).
Or, Comey is a decent person, so some of what he said might vindicate Trump (ie, he wasn't under investigation), but there are still lots of questions, especially about whether Trump's meetings and requests to Comey amount to obstruction of justice...
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Jon on June 08, 2017, 09:23:58 PM
Do any of the Trump supporters actually think Trump isn't a pathological liar? The man outright contradicts himself on a daily basis and has a long history of being a con artist who has scammed nearly everyone he's ever worked with.

It just boggles my mind anyone would believe Trump over Comey without ignoring essentially every action Trump has ever done in his life.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: rondohondo on June 08, 2017, 09:32:10 PM
Do any of the Trump supporters actually think Trump isn't a pathological liar? The man outright contradicts himself on a daily basis and has a long history of being a con artist who has scammed nearly everyone he's ever worked with.

It just boggles my mind anyone would believe Trump over Comey without ignoring essentially every action Trump has ever done in his life.

Comey  who has admitted he leaks to a newspaper that publishes #fakenews , and changed the clinton investigation to a "matter" at the request of Lorreta Lynch that just so happens to match the narrative the Clinton campaign was spinning at the time.

Why should I trust comey?
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Roy H. on June 08, 2017, 09:32:25 PM
Quote
Question for C bloggers:
1. Do you believe that Trump asked/urged Comey to go light on Flynn?
2. Do you believe that Trump asked/urged Comey to make the Russia investigation to go away?
3. Do you believe either of these amount to obstruction of justice?

1. Yes, at least to some extent.  Was it an order, or somebody saying "hey, this is a good man, so if you've got any room to go easy on him, please do"?

2. Yes, probably. He clearly wanted Comey to announce there was no open investigation (which was true). I also believe that he asked for loyalty.

3. I don't think it can be proven criminally, and I don't think he did anything different than a lot of powerful people said. I think he was acting like a typical sleazy politician.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Jon on June 08, 2017, 09:47:01 PM
Do any of the Trump supporters actually think Trump isn't a pathological liar? The man outright contradicts himself on a daily basis and has a long history of being a con artist who has scammed nearly everyone he's ever worked with.

It just boggles my mind anyone would believe Trump over Comey without ignoring essentially every action Trump has ever done in his life.

Comey  who has admitted he leaks to a newspaper that publishes #fakenews , and changed the clinton investigation to a "matter" at the request of Lorreta Lynch that just so happens to match the narrative the Clinton campaign was spinning at the time.

Why should I trust comey?

You do realize that none of the Republicans in the Senate are refuting anything Comey said, they are just trying to spin it as "not so bad" or "not obstruction." The only people clinging to Trump being truthful are the scum in his inner circle who would also tell you that the grass is red and the sky is green if Trump told them to and then change course the next day when instructed.

I hope you're enjoying the dumpster fire that is Trump's Presidncy because when he goes down--whether it be in 2 months, 2 years, or 2020, he's going to bring the whole party with him and it will be a very long time (if ever with changing demographics) before the Republicans are back in charge.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: rondohondo on June 08, 2017, 09:54:44 PM
Do any of the Trump supporters actually think Trump isn't a pathological liar? The man outright contradicts himself on a daily basis and has a long history of being a con artist who has scammed nearly everyone he's ever worked with.

It just boggles my mind anyone would believe Trump over Comey without ignoring essentially every action Trump has ever done in his life.

Comey  who has admitted he leaks to a newspaper that publishes #fakenews , and changed the clinton investigation to a "matter" at the request of Lorreta Lynch that just so happens to match the narrative the Clinton campaign was spinning at the time.

Why should I trust comey?

You do realize that none of the Republicans in the Senate are refuting anything Comey said, they are just trying to spin it as "not so bad" or "not obstruction." The only people clinging to Trump being truthful are the scum in his inner circle who would also tell you that the grass is red and the sky is green if Trump told them to and then change course the next day when instructed.

I hope you're enjoying the dumpster fire that is Trump's Presidncy because when he goes down--whether it be in 2 months, 2 years, or 2020, he's going to bring the whole party with him and it will be a very long time (if ever with changing demographics) before the Republicans are back in charge.

This makes no sense. Most of the republican party was against trump from the beginning. Republican and dems are under the same umbrella, 2 sides of the same coin.

Trump was elected as a populist candidate, not because of party.

The fact is Trump was never under investigation himself while Comey was heading the FBI.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Celtics4ever on June 08, 2017, 10:02:45 PM
It pretty much was what I expected.   Comey trying to save his reputation and the FBI reputation.   Him pretty calling Pres. Trump a liar, which I think all politicians are to some degree, but Pres. Trump is worse than most in that regard.

I found it odd that people regard these memos that Comey typed up after the meeting as solid evidence.   It is his word against Pres. Trump.   Though argubably, I think Comey is the more believable of the two.  But he could have wrote whatever he wanted in those memos.

Comey admitted that he had a lack of moral courage and was taken aback by some of Trump's requests.   He showed a lot of candor admitting he leaked intentionally.

The big loser in all this is the media.   There were several retracted stories in wake of this hearing.   I think Trump, while nothing linked him to the Russians, did not gain any traction and lost some ground.  I also think this hearing also exposed Loretta Lynch as trying to sway Comey just as bad as Trump and we all know who was behind that (Clinton).

So the losers as I see are the 1) Media 2) Trump 3) Lynch
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: MBunge on June 08, 2017, 10:08:33 PM
Do any of the Trump supporters actually think Trump isn't a pathological liar?

1.  "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" and being found guilty of perjury bothered you...HOW MUCH?

2.  Exactly what sort of "pneumonia" did Hillary have that caused her to collapse on a pleasant day, get treatment at somebody's apartment instead of the hospital, then emerge as though absolutely nothing was wrong?  And didn't they even lie about the "pneumonia" until the video came out?

3.  Trump told the TRUTH about Comey telling him he was not under investigation.  A whole bunch of people, INCLUDING COMEY, were part of a deliberately deceitful effort to push the idea that Trump was under investigation.

Does Trump have a fairly flexible relationship with the truth?  Sure.  So do most people in politics.  They just do it in a prissier, more weasily manner.

Mike
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Amonkey on June 08, 2017, 10:32:34 PM
Do any of the Trump supporters actually think Trump isn't a pathological liar?

1.  "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" and being found guilty of perjury bothered you...HOW MUCH?

2.  Exactly what sort of "pneumonia" did Hillary have that caused her to collapse on a pleasant day, get treatment at somebody's apartment instead of the hospital, then emerge as though absolutely nothing was wrong?  And didn't they even lie about the "pneumonia" until the video came out?

3.  Trump told the TRUTH about Comey telling him he was not under investigation.  A whole bunch of people, INCLUDING COMEY, were part of a deliberately deceitful effort to push the idea that Trump was under investigation.

Does Trump have a fairly flexible relationship with the truth?  Sure.  So do most people in politics.  They just do it in a prissier, more weasily manner.

Mike

I just want to throw in that I think the public recognizes that politician lies. My personal defined a pathological liar is of one that lies, even when there's no reason to lie. Although Bill Clinton completely lied, and he should be punished rightfully so for it, within the context of the time he was trying to get away from a political firestorm. I see that as a different from trump for some reason lying about the size of his inauguration.

Again, morally and within his ability to govern, Clinton's lie was much more significant. I see Trump as a pathological liar because he lies about things that frankly don't need to be lied about.

Last point, I understand that this is his word against Trump, only one person has been under oath and has detailed memos about his conversation. At this point I take his word because there's more weight and consequence if found to be a lie.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Amonkey on June 08, 2017, 10:34:06 PM
Last point being about Comey vs Trump.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: rondohondo on June 08, 2017, 10:37:46 PM
Do any of the Trump supporters actually think Trump isn't a pathological liar?

1.  "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" and being found guilty of perjury bothered you...HOW MUCH?

2.  Exactly what sort of "pneumonia" did Hillary have that caused her to collapse on a pleasant day, get treatment at somebody's apartment instead of the hospital, then emerge as though absolutely nothing was wrong?  And didn't they even lie about the "pneumonia" until the video came out?

3.  Trump told the TRUTH about Comey telling him he was not under investigation.  A whole bunch of people, INCLUDING COMEY, were part of a deliberately deceitful effort to push the idea that Trump was under investigation.

Does Trump have a fairly flexible relationship with the truth?  Sure.  So do most people in politics.  They just do it in a prissier, more weasily manner.

Mike

I just want to throw in that I think the public recognizes that politician lies. My personal defined a pathological liar is of one that lies, even when there's no reason to lie. Although Bill Clinton completely lied, and he should be punished rightfully so for it, within the context of the time he was trying to get away from a political firestorm. I see that as a different from trump for some reason lying about the size of his inauguration.

Again, morally and within his ability to govern, Clinton's lie was much more significant. I see Trump as a pathological liar because he lies about things that frankly don't need to be lied about.

Last point, I understand that this is his word against Trump, only one person has been under oath and has detailed memos about his conversation. At this point I take his word because there's more weight and consequence if found to be a lie.

Just look up Bill Clinton Rwanda
If we really wanna get down to character here......

Or the Serbia bombings ....


Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Cman on June 08, 2017, 11:04:47 PM
Trump supporters really need to move on from the Clinton thing.

Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: rondohondo on June 08, 2017, 11:13:23 PM
Trump supporters really need to move on from the Clinton thing.

Yea when James comey is connected to the Clintons for decades , Loretta Lynch is meeting with Buba on the run way and telling Comey to change the investigation into a "matter" and Comey just going along with it.


No there is something much bigger going on here.

Drain that swamp Trump
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: 86MaxwellSmart on June 08, 2017, 11:16:38 PM
Comey is a Weak individual, who should NOT be head of the FBI

Glad he's gone.

Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: rondohondo on June 08, 2017, 11:34:23 PM
Now John Clapper is going o n CNN saying Trump is in trouble . Same John Clapper that lied under oath.

Don't forget John Brennan , former head of the CIA that lived in Saudi Arabia for a decade


Wake up people!
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: cousytoheinsohn on June 08, 2017, 11:47:35 PM
Do any of the Trump supporters actually think Trump isn't a pathological liar?

1.  "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" and being found guilty of perjury bothered you...HOW MUCH?

2.  Exactly what sort of "pneumonia" did Hillary have that caused her to collapse on a pleasant day, get treatment at somebody's apartment instead of the hospital, then emerge as though absolutely nothing was wrong?  And didn't they even lie about the "pneumonia" until the video came out?

3.  Trump told the TRUTH about Comey telling him he was not under investigation.  A whole bunch of people, INCLUDING COMEY, were part of a deliberately deceitful effort to push the idea that Trump was under investigation.

Does Trump have a fairly flexible relationship with the truth?  Sure.  So do most people in politics.  They just do it in a prissier, more weasily manner.

Mike

I just want to throw in that I think the public recognizes that politician lies. My personal defined a pathological liar is of one that lies, even when there's no reason to lie. Although Bill Clinton completely lied, and he should be punished rightfully so for it, within the context of the time he was trying to get away from a political firestorm. I see that as a different from trump for some reason lying about the size of his inauguration.

Again, morally and within his ability to govern, Clinton's lie was much more significant. I see Trump as a pathological liar because he lies about things that frankly don't need to be lied about.

Last point, I understand that this is his word against Trump, only one person has been under oath and has detailed memos about his conversation. At this point I take his word because there's more weight and consequence if found to be a lie.

Just look up Bill Clinton Rwanda
If we really wanna get down to character here......

Or the Serbia bombings ....

You got it, rh, well done.

Not to mention the rancid string of dead bodies Slick Will and Sick Hill left in their sorry wake from Little Rock to D.C., of which the most recent is likely the corpse of poor Seth Rich, may he rest in peace. That's what they ought to be investigating, among a myriad of other contemporary true crimes by modern former presidents and at least one presidential aspirant.

To wit: Dubya's sadistic depredations in Aghanistan and Iraq that were knowingly based on fraudulent reasons and subsequently exceeded in volume, frequency and murderous intent by the Peace Laureate, the least effective one in history, in his even bloodier eight-year run.

In fact, the hopey-changey Peace/Rainbow Man has the record for the US prez with the longest tenure of uninterrupted war, eight wars in eight years, all of them still ongoing. And yet, we have the gall to criticize a Russia that mostly leaves other countries alone and cast self-righteous aspersions Putin's way, accusing him of things there is no evidence whatsoever that he had anything to do with.     

By any measure, all of the American presidents and one First Lady of the past quarter-century-plus qualify as homicidal maniacs and should be behind bars for their crimes but all we want to debate are the finer points and essentially fake issues attending a punk sniping match between two rich, spoiled brats, Trump and Comey. It's quite remarkable.

As the public's already legendary level of denial of historical realities increases, the level of civic discourse deteriorates, in truly unfortunate inverse proportion. So, all things considered, we're getting the leaders we deserve. In being as unbecoming as they are, they become us. We are them, they are us.

And, as bad as Trump may or may not be, he doesn't begin to compare with his predecessors in criminal intent and accomplishment. He's not even in that incomprehensibly twisted league, not even close. 
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: cousytoheinsohn on June 08, 2017, 11:48:57 PM
Trump supporters really need to move on from the Clinton thing.

Why?
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: rondohondo on June 09, 2017, 12:02:23 AM
Do any of the Trump supporters actually think Trump isn't a pathological liar?

1.  "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" and being found guilty of perjury bothered you...HOW MUCH?

2.  Exactly what sort of "pneumonia" did Hillary have that caused her to collapse on a pleasant day, get treatment at somebody's apartment instead of the hospital, then emerge as though absolutely nothing was wrong?  And didn't they even lie about the "pneumonia" until the video came out?

3.  Trump told the TRUTH about Comey telling him he was not under investigation.  A whole bunch of people, INCLUDING COMEY, were part of a deliberately deceitful effort to push the idea that Trump was under investigation.

Does Trump have a fairly flexible relationship with the truth?  Sure.  So do most people in politics.  They just do it in a prissier, more weasily manner.

Mike

I just want to throw in that I think the public recognizes that politician lies. My personal defined a pathological liar is of one that lies, even when there's no reason to lie. Although Bill Clinton completely lied, and he should be punished rightfully so for it, within the context of the time he was trying to get away from a political firestorm. I see that as a different from trump for some reason lying about the size of his inauguration.

Again, morally and within his ability to govern, Clinton's lie was much more significant. I see Trump as a pathological liar because he lies about things that frankly don't need to be lied about.

Last point, I understand that this is his word against Trump, only one person has been under oath and has detailed memos about his conversation. At this point I take his word because there's more weight and consequence if found to be a lie.

Just look up Bill Clinton Rwanda
If we really wanna get down to character here......

Or the Serbia bombings ....

You got it, rh, well done.

Not to mention the rancid string of dead bodies Slick Will and Sick Hill left in their sorry wake from Little Rock to D.C., of which the most recent is likely the corpse of poor Seth Rich, may he rest in peace. That's what they ought to be investigating, among a myriad of other contemporary true crimes by modern former presidents and at least one presidential aspirant.

To wit: Dubya's sadistic depredations in Aghanistan and Iraq that were knowingly based on fraudulent reasons and subsequently exceeded in volume, frequency and murderous intent by the Peace Laureate, the least effective one in history, in his even bloodier eight-year run.

In fact, the hopey-changey Peace/Rainbow Man has the record for the US prez with the longest tenure of uninterrupted war, eight wars in eight years, all of them still ongoing. And yet, we have the gall to criticize a Russia that mostly leaves other countries alone and cast self-righteous aspersions Putin's way, accusing him of things there is no evidence whatsoever that he had anything to do with.     

By any measure, all of the American presidents and one First Lady of the past quarter-century-plus qualify as homicidal maniacs and should be behind bars for their crimes but all we want to debate are the finer points and essentially fake issues attending a punk sniping match between two rich, spoiled brats, Trump and Comey. It's quite remarkable.

As the public's already legendary level of denial of historical realities increases, the level of civic discourse deteriorates, in truly unfortunate inverse proportion. So, all things considered, we're getting the leaders we deserve. In being as unbecoming as they are, they become us. We are them, they are us.

And, as bad as Trump may or may not be, he doesn't begin to compare with his predecessors in criminal intent and accomplishment. He's not even in that incomprehensibly twisted league, not even close.

Right on my brother/sister

No more parties, just truth!
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: kozlodoev on June 09, 2017, 12:17:35 AM
Comey is a Clinton operative.

You can look it up, he was on boards that were connected to Clinton all the way back to white water.

This is a total witch hunt/ dems trying to undermine Trump

What a government we have...
A lifelong Republican who was appointed as a District Attorney and Deputy Attorney General under George Bush is a Clinton operative. We've now gone full on from fake news into parallel reality.  ::)
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: rondohondo on June 09, 2017, 12:19:47 AM
Comey is a Clinton operative.

You can look it up, he was on boards that were connected to Clinton all the way back to white water.

This is a total witch hunt/ dems trying to undermine Trump

What a government we have...
A lifelong Republican who was appointed as a District Attorney and Deputy Attorney General under George Bush is a Clinton operative. We've now gone full on from fake news into parallel reality.  ::)

Like I said, dems and repubs are 2 sides of the same coin.

Look up his employment history and connections to Clinton.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: kozlodoev on June 09, 2017, 12:21:48 AM
Quote
Question for C bloggers:
1. Do you believe that Trump asked/urged Comey to go light on Flynn?
2. Do you believe that Trump asked/urged Comey to make the Russia investigation to go away?
3. Do you believe either of these amount to obstruction of justice?

1. Yes, at least to some extent.  Was it an order, or somebody saying "hey, this is a good man, so if you've got any room to go easy on him, please do"?

2. Yes, probably. He clearly wanted Comey to announce there was no open investigation (which was true). I also believe that he asked for loyalty.

3. I don't think it can be proven criminally, and I don't think he did anything different than a lot of powerful people said. I think he was acting like a typical sleazy politician.
Wasn't an order at all. He just said he "hoped" something would happen. And when it didn't he fired Comey. Perfectly fine, right?
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: kozlodoev on June 09, 2017, 12:22:31 AM
Comey is a Clinton operative.

You can look it up, he was on boards that were connected to Clinton all the way back to white water.

This is a total witch hunt/ dems trying to undermine Trump

What a government we have...
A lifelong Republican who was appointed as a District Attorney and Deputy Attorney General under George Bush is a Clinton operative. We've now gone full on from fake news into parallel reality.  ::)

Like I said, dems and repubs are 2 sides of the same coin.

Look up his employment history and connections to Clinton.
Like I said, parallel reality.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: rondohondo on June 09, 2017, 12:23:40 AM
Comey is a Clinton operative.

You can look it up, he was on boards that were connected to Clinton all the way back to white water.

This is a total witch hunt/ dems trying to undermine Trump

What a government we have...
A lifelong Republican who was appointed as a District Attorney and Deputy Attorney General under George Bush is a Clinton operative. We've now gone full on from fake news into parallel reality.  ::)

Like I said, dems and repubs are 2 sides of the same coin.

Look up his employment history and connections to Clinton.
Like I said, parallel reality.
. Pretty strong argument you have there.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: kozlodoev on June 09, 2017, 12:31:02 AM
Comey is a Clinton operative.

You can look it up, he was on boards that were connected to Clinton all the way back to white water.

This is a total witch hunt/ dems trying to undermine Trump

What a government we have...
A lifelong Republican who was appointed as a District Attorney and Deputy Attorney General under George Bush is a Clinton operative. We've now gone full on from fake news into parallel reality.  ::)

Like I said, dems and repubs are 2 sides of the same coin.

Look up his employment history and connections to Clinton.
Like I said, parallel reality.
. Pretty strong argument you have there.
About as strong as yours, I think. But that's just me.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: indeedproceed on July 13, 2017, 02:34:48 PM
https://twitter.com/nytvideo/status/885541090639527936

Aww, look at Lindsey Graham trying to lead the cowardly lion to bravery. Yes, you irrepressible patriot, Chris Wray, yes you unrepentant Maverick, you trend setter. You tell us how much you cagily disapprove of taking meetings with foreign agents who are seeking to influence domestic elections. You tell us Chris Wray, you beacon of shining integrity in the ever-present darkness of our times, you tell us how you'd suggest those politicians asked to meetings by foreign agents seeking to influence  elections, how they should 'consult with legal counsul' before taking the meeting.

I mean, in a world where Lindsey Graham isn't the hero we want or need, but the barley-chordate we deserve, I could not be less impressed with a prospective FBI director. I cannot see this guy being confirmed. I truly hope he's not confirmed.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Roy H. on August 31, 2017, 09:21:33 PM
James Comey apparently circulated a draft decision exonerating Hillary several months before the investigation was concluded. Allegedly the FBI hadn't interviewed 17 witnesses - some of whom were offered immunity -  including Clinton herself.

I'm sure it will be explained away, but it's a bad look.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: liam on August 31, 2017, 09:33:15 PM
James Comey apparently circulated a draft decision exonerating Hillary several months before the investigation was concluded. Allegedly the FBI hadn't interviewed 17 witnesses - some of whom were offered immunity -  including Clinton herself.

I'm sure it will be explained away, but it's a bad look.

Are we still chewing on the Hillary cabbage?
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Roy H. on August 31, 2017, 09:42:22 PM
James Comey apparently circulated a draft decision exonerating Hillary several months before the investigation was concluded. Allegedly the FBI hadn't interviewed 17 witnesses - some of whom were offered immunity -  including Clinton herself.

I'm sure it will be explained away, but it's a bad look.

Are we still chewing on the Hillary cabbage?

More like the "justifications for James Comey being fired" cabbage.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: blink on August 31, 2017, 09:50:11 PM
James Comey apparently circulated a draft decision exonerating Hillary several months before the investigation was concluded. Allegedly the FBI hadn't interviewed 17 witnesses - some of whom were offered immunity -  including Clinton herself.

I'm sure it will be explained away, but it's a bad look.

Are we still chewing on the Hillary cabbage?

More like the "justifications for James Comey being fired" cabbage.

Do we really think that the firing of Comey was based on any of this?  I don't.  Trump was already pretty clear why he fired him.  R u s s i a
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: tazzmaniac on August 31, 2017, 10:27:38 PM
James Comey apparently circulated a draft decision exonerating Hillary several months before the investigation was concluded. Allegedly the FBI hadn't interviewed 17 witnesses - some of whom were offered immunity -  including Clinton herself.

I'm sure it will be explained away, but it's a bad look.

Are we still chewing on the Hillary cabbage?

More like the "justifications for James Comey being fired" cabbage.
1st draft in May and announcement in July.  Hardly several months and clearly towards the end of the investigation which Comey did not take part in. 

Quote
This individual said by April 2016 the FBI had reviewed most of the evidence and didn't find evidence suggesting that Clinton had violated federal law. The person said the FBI wanted to interview her but didn't believe it was going to change the outcome.

Quote
A second person familiar with the matter told CNN that Comey had not already made up his mind, and that it did not influence the investigation. The second source says the FBI had already reviewed much of the evidence by spring and it was becoming more clear that it was not likely to support bringing charges.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/31/politics/comey-clinton-investigation/index.html 
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: nickagneta on September 01, 2017, 02:22:29 AM
Pretty sure Comey was fired for things he may have found out or would have found out about the Trump team and administration rather than for stuff he found out about Clinton that wasn't criminal in any way.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Celtics4ever on September 01, 2017, 08:18:53 AM
Quote
Pretty sure Comey was fired for things he may have found out or would have found out about the Trump team and administration rather than for stuff he found out about Clinton that wasn't criminal in any way.

Yet he felt compelled to tell the American People about Hillary.   He had to know the effects on the election and still he choose to leak.   I think the jury is still out on some of the Dems especially Debbie Wasserman Schultz.   They are still being probed too.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/08/08/the-story-of-debbie-wasserman-schultz-and-an-it-staffer-thats-lighting-up-the-right/
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Vermont Green on September 01, 2017, 08:32:11 AM
Don't forget that after closing the investigation and then uncharacteristically announcing the results of the investigation, they later reopened the investigation because of new evidence.  This reopening was also announced publicly which was even more unorthodox for the FBI.

How do those that believe Comey had some conspiracy to go soft on Hilary square that with the reopening of the case and announcing it.  It seems that if all he wanted to do was close the case and let her off then he wouldn't reopen the case.  And this certainly would not be a reason for Trump to fire him.

Could it be that Hilary had a private email server to use for personal emails and that she was careless and a few State Dept emails were carelessly sent through the personal email (all perfectly harmless emails).  That there was no criminal intent with the personal email server (in other words, exactly what Comey said at the conclusion of the main investigation).

Colin Powell had a personal email as did (then Governor) Pence as I understand it.  I have a personal email account separate from my work email.  I know that Hilary was about as unlikable of a candidate as there could be but are we really still working the email thing?
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Roy H. on September 01, 2017, 09:20:05 AM
Quote
Could it be that Hilary had a private email server to use for personal emails and that she was careless and a few State Dept emails were carelessly sent through the personal email (all perfectly harmless emails).  That there was no criminal intent with the personal email server (in other words, exactly what Comey said at the conclusion of the main investigation).

Since the decision hinged on intent, why not wait until key witnesses - including Hillary -- were interviewed? It looks bad.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Greenback on September 01, 2017, 09:47:05 AM
Trump weighed in on the situation.  He has a point. 

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/cortneyobrien/2017/09/01/trump-responds-to-report-that-comey-exonerated-hillary-long-before-fbi-investigation-ended-n2376172
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Vermont Green on September 01, 2017, 01:49:33 PM
Quote
Could it be that Hilary had a private email server to use for personal emails and that she was careless and a few State Dept emails were carelessly sent through the personal email (all perfectly harmless emails).  That there was no criminal intent with the personal email server (in other words, exactly what Comey said at the conclusion of the main investigation).

Since the decision hinged on intent, why not wait until key witnesses - including Hillary -- were interviewed? It looks bad.

He did wait.  He didn't decide or announce anything until the investigation was complete.  Then when new evidence came to light, he reopened the investigation.

What exactly are you suggesting by saying "it looks bad".  Are you suggesting that the investigation was not fair or thorough?  Are you suggesting that the outcome of the investigation would have been different if Comey had made his first draft a month later?

There is clear evidence that Comey would have gone where the evidence took the investigation, whether he had started to draft the opinion or not.  This evidence is in the form of him reopening the case the minute that some new evidence was revealed, even after the opinion was finished and publicly delivered.  But you are suggesting that he may not of considered new evidence after taking some initial steps to conclude the investigation?  This does not make any sense to me. 

It bothers me that the right/conservatives/whatever keep hanging their hat on things like this.  Comey did his job much like Mueller is doing his job.  Trump fired him for self interest.  Hilary did nothing criminal with the emails.  This is yet another right wing smoke screen.  When will the right give me some reason to support them again?  This kind of bull is not going to bring me back.

Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: nickagneta on September 01, 2017, 02:22:35 PM
Quote
Could it be that Hilary had a private email server to use for personal emails and that she was careless and a few State Dept emails were carelessly sent through the personal email (all perfectly harmless emails).  That there was no criminal intent with the personal email server (in other words, exactly what Comey said at the conclusion of the main investigation).

Since the decision hinged on intent, why not wait until key witnesses - including Hillary -- were interviewed? It looks bad.
Police officers regularly determine people are innocent of crimes based on evidence before interviewing the accused. Happens all the time.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Roy H. on September 01, 2017, 04:27:42 PM
Quote
Could it be that Hilary had a private email server to use for personal emails and that she was careless and a few State Dept emails were carelessly sent through the personal email (all perfectly harmless emails).  That there was no criminal intent with the personal email server (in other words, exactly what Comey said at the conclusion of the main investigation).

Since the decision hinged on intent, why not wait until key witnesses - including Hillary -- were interviewed? It looks bad.

He did wait.  He didn't decide or announce anything until the investigation was complete.  Then when new evidence came to light, he reopened the investigation.

What exactly are you suggesting by saying "it looks bad".  Are you suggesting that the investigation was not fair or thorough?  Are you suggesting that the outcome of the investigation would have been different if Comey had made his first draft a month later?

There is clear evidence that Comey would have gone where the evidence took the investigation, whether he had started to draft the opinion or not.  This evidence is in the form of him reopening the case the minute that some new evidence was revealed, even after the opinion was finished and publicly delivered.  But you are suggesting that he may not of considered new evidence after taking some initial steps to conclude the investigation?  This does not make any sense to me. 

It bothers me that the right/conservatives/whatever keep hanging their hat on things like this.  Comey did his job much like Mueller is doing his job.  Trump fired him for self interest.  Hilary did nothing criminal with the emails.  This is yet another right wing smoke screen.  When will the right give me some reason to support them again?  This kind of bull is not going to bring me back.

If a judge writes her decision, including about guilt or innocence, before hearing much of the key evidence, do you still think that's appropriate?
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Vermont Green on September 01, 2017, 04:44:12 PM
If a judge writes her decision, including about guilt or innocence, before hearing much of the key evidence, do you still think that's appropriate?

MUCH of the KEY evidence?  That not my understanding based on direct quotes in the article.

Quote
This individual said by April 2016 the FBI had reviewed most of the evidence and didn't find evidence suggesting that Clinton had violated federal law. The person said the FBI wanted to interview her but didn't believe it was going to change the outcome.

Quote
A second person familiar with the matter told CNN that Comey had not already made up his mind, and that it did not influence the investigation. The second source says the FBI had already reviewed much of the evidence by spring and it was becoming more clear that it was not likely to support bringing charges.

I still don't understand what you think this proves, other than it is a bad look to you.  I think you can make this into a bad look if that is your goal but what is the bottom line relative to the results of the investigation?  Republican Senators are up in arms but do you really believe there is any substance to this?

I don't see anything here that changes my opinion of Comey, Clinton, or Trump one bit.  I still think the evidence overwhelmingly supports that Comey did his job, Clinton was careless with her emails while in a position of great responsibility, and Trump is a fraud.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Roy H. on September 01, 2017, 05:31:15 PM
If a judge writes her decision, including about guilt or innocence, before hearing much of the key evidence, do you still think that's appropriate?

MUCH of the KEY evidence?  That not my understanding based on direct quotes in the article.

Quote
This individual said by April 2016 the FBI had reviewed most of the evidence and didn't find evidence suggesting that Clinton had violated federal law. The person said the FBI wanted to interview her but didn't believe it was going to change the outcome.

Quote
A second person familiar with the matter told CNN that Comey had not already made up his mind, and that it did not influence the investigation. The second source says the FBI had already reviewed much of the evidence by spring and it was becoming more clear that it was not likely to support bringing charges.

I still don't understand what you think this proves, other than it is a bad look to you.  I think you can make this into a bad look if that is your goal but what is the bottom line relative to the results of the investigation?  Republican Senators are up in arms but do you really believe there is any substance to this?

I don't see anything here that changes my opinion of Comey, Clinton, or Trump one bit.  I still think the evidence overwhelmingly supports that Comey did his job, Clinton was careless with her emails while in a position of great responsibility, and Trump is a fraud.

Ask yourself, if this same situation happened under Trump and Sessions, how would you feel?

Some of the witnesses yet to be interviewed had been given prosecutorial immunity. The Feds don't give that away for no reason.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: chicagoceltic on September 02, 2017, 10:38:28 AM
I am not sure if this is a big deal, a little deal or no deal but apparently Mueller now has a draft letter written by President Trump and Stephen Miller outlining reasoning for firing Comey.  This was drafted before Rosenstein's letter but was not sent after the President's lawyers objected to it thinking that parts of it were "problematic".  Could this be viewed as proof that his firing was to obstruct the Russia investigation or at least that it was not at the behest of the DOJ recommendation as originally stated?

Link:  https://www.yahoo.com/news/ap-source-mueller-team-draft-letter-comey-firing-181450122--politics.html
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: tazzmaniac on September 02, 2017, 11:22:37 AM
If a judge writes her decision, including about guilt or innocence, before hearing much of the key evidence, do you still think that's appropriate?

MUCH of the KEY evidence?  That not my understanding based on direct quotes in the article.

Quote
This individual said by April 2016 the FBI had reviewed most of the evidence and didn't find evidence suggesting that Clinton had violated federal law. The person said the FBI wanted to interview her but didn't believe it was going to change the outcome.

Quote
A second person familiar with the matter told CNN that Comey had not already made up his mind, and that it did not influence the investigation. The second source says the FBI had already reviewed much of the evidence by spring and it was becoming more clear that it was not likely to support bringing charges.

I still don't understand what you think this proves, other than it is a bad look to you.  I think you can make this into a bad look if that is your goal but what is the bottom line relative to the results of the investigation?  Republican Senators are up in arms but do you really believe there is any substance to this?

I don't see anything here that changes my opinion of Comey, Clinton, or Trump one bit.  I still think the evidence overwhelmingly supports that Comey did his job, Clinton was careless with her emails while in a position of great responsibility, and Trump is a fraud.

Ask yourself, if this same situation happened under Trump and Sessions, how would you feel?

Some of the witnesses yet to be interviewed had been given prosecutorial immunity. The Feds don't give that away for no reason.
The notion that Comey was on Hillary's side is comical.  If he were, he would have followed normal procedure and not held a press conference.  If he were, he wouldn't have re-opened the investigation a few weeks before the election. 

The FBI investigation started July 2015.  Comey apparently started the draft in May 2016.  Comey's announcement was July 5th 2016.  Clearly the investigation was wrapping up when the draft was started. 
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: incoherent on September 02, 2017, 11:52:39 AM
It doesn't matter how many "smoking guns" the press and the FBI find on Trump.  They can't touch him.  If they could they would have by now.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Jon on September 02, 2017, 12:14:32 PM
If Comey was pro-Hillary, he never would have attempted to re-open everything days before the election and Hillary would most likely be President now.

Republicans have also held hearing after hearing on all of this to the point of ridiculousness and ultimately found nothing on her.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: blink on September 02, 2017, 04:01:22 PM
It doesn't matter how many "smoking guns" the press and the FBI find on Trump.  They can't touch him.  If they could they would have by now.

I know it feels like Mueller has been doing the investigation for a long time now, but these major investigations take months or even years.  Just because no one is in jail after a few months doesn't mean everyone is made of teflon. 
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Vermont Green on September 03, 2017, 09:47:00 PM

Ask yourself, if this same situation happened under Trump and Sessions, how would you feel?

Some of the witnesses yet to be interviewed had been given prosecutorial immunity. The Feds don't give that away for no reason.

My feeling based on the facts of this specific case (not a hypothetical one) is that Comey was trying to complete the investigation expeditiously because he understood the importance of it.  He started to draft his final recommendation at a time when most of the evidence was in but getting a head start would allow him to get it done quicker.  He did not make any public statement until all the evidence was in (except of course the new evidence that came in causing him to reopen the case).

You seem to be grasping at straw men.  First is was "before most of the key witnesses were interviewed", which was untrue, now it is something about granting immunity.  There is nothing here.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Roy H. on September 03, 2017, 10:07:43 PM

Ask yourself, if this same situation happened under Trump and Sessions, how would you feel?

Some of the witnesses yet to be interviewed had been given prosecutorial immunity. The Feds don't give that away for no reason.

My feeling based on the facts of this specific case (not a hypothetical one) is that Comey was trying to complete the investigation expeditiously because he understood the importance of it.  He started to draft his final recommendation at a time when most of the evidence was in but getting a head start would allow him to get it done quicker.  He did not make any public statement until all the evidence was in (except of course the new evidence that came in causing him to reopen the case).

You seem to be grasping at straw men.  First is was "before most of the key witnesses were interviewed", which was untrue, now it is something about granting immunity.  There is nothing here.

The witnesses who were granted immunity *are* key witnesses.

But hey, if Mueller drafts a memo to his staff clearing Trump months before the investigation is complete, without hearing from key witnesses, I'm sure none of the Dems on here will object.  Especially if it turns out that there were unethical meetings between Mueller's boss and Trump's family members.
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: tazzmaniac on September 03, 2017, 10:38:28 PM

Ask yourself, if this same situation happened under Trump and Sessions, how would you feel?

Some of the witnesses yet to be interviewed had been given prosecutorial immunity. The Feds don't give that away for no reason.

My feeling based on the facts of this specific case (not a hypothetical one) is that Comey was trying to complete the investigation expeditiously because he understood the importance of it.  He started to draft his final recommendation at a time when most of the evidence was in but getting a head start would allow him to get it done quicker.  He did not make any public statement until all the evidence was in (except of course the new evidence that came in causing him to reopen the case).

You seem to be grasping at straw men.  First is was "before most of the key witnesses were interviewed", which was untrue, now it is something about granting immunity.  There is nothing here.

The witnesses who were granted immunity *are* key witnesses.

But hey, if Mueller drafts a memo to his staff clearing Trump months before the investigation is complete, without hearing from key witnesses, I'm sure none of the Dems on here will object.  Especially if it turns out that there were unethical meetings between Mueller's boss and Trump's family members.
Being granted immunity doesn't make someone a key witness.  So who specifically were these key witnesses that the FBI hadn't interviewed for the 1st 10 months of the investigation?  What roles did they play that would make them key witnesses? 
Title: Re: James Comey fired
Post by: Roy H. on September 03, 2017, 10:53:30 PM

Ask yourself, if this same situation happened under Trump and Sessions, how would you feel?

Some of the witnesses yet to be interviewed had been given prosecutorial immunity. The Feds don't give that away for no reason.

My feeling based on the facts of this specific case (not a hypothetical one) is that Comey was trying to complete the investigation expeditiously because he understood the importance of it.  He started to draft his final recommendation at a time when most of the evidence was in but getting a head start would allow him to get it done quicker.  He did not make any public statement until all the evidence was in (except of course the new evidence that came in causing him to reopen the case).

You seem to be grasping at straw men.  First is was "before most of the key witnesses were interviewed", which was untrue, now it is something about granting immunity.  There is nothing here.

The witnesses who were granted immunity *are* key witnesses.

But hey, if Mueller drafts a memo to his staff clearing Trump months before the investigation is complete, without hearing from key witnesses, I'm sure none of the Dems on here will object.  Especially if it turns out that there were unethical meetings between Mueller's boss and Trump's family members.
Being granted immunity doesn't make someone a key witness.  So who specifically were these key witnesses that the FBI hadn't interviewed for the 1st 10 months of the investigation?  What roles did they play that would make them key witnesses?

Cheryl Mills, for starters.  Clinton herself was obviously a key witness.  Comey testified before Congress that he hadn't made his mind up until after the Clinton interview. This contradicts that.

And yes, immunized witnesses are almost by definition key witnesses, because there's at least some probability that they were involved in criminal activity. That's why they're offered immunity in the first place, as a bar to Fifth Amendment protection against self incrimination for criminal activity.

Why are Democrats so reticent to criticize Comey? Between this, his admission that he leaked stories to the press, his vague reopening f the Clinton investigation, etc., it seems like his reputation as a straight shooter was overblown. He *should* have been fired, although Trump has ulterior motives.