CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Tr1boy on April 20, 2017, 02:09:57 PM
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1)danny-ainge-brad-stevens-playoff-record-criticism-not-making-trade
http://www.csnne.com/video/danny-ainge-brad-stevens-playoff-record-criticism-not-making-trade
2)danny-ainge-no-celtics-player-has-elevated-their-game
http://www.csnne.com/video/danny-ainge-no-celtics-player-has-elevated-their-game
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1)danny-ainge-brad-stevens-playoff-record-criticism-not-making-trade
http://www.csnne.com/video/danny-ainge-brad-stevens-playoff-record-criticism-not-making-trade
2)danny-ainge-no-celtics-player-has-elevated-their-game
http://www.csnne.com/video/danny-ainge-no-celtics-player-has-elevated-their-game
I don't think its fair to say that he put the blame on the players. He said no one has stepped up in the playoffs which is 100% true. Remember in 2010 when Nate Robinson and Big Baby stepped up in the finals, or in 2008 when Leon Powe, Posey and Eddie House had big games, we haven't seen anything like that this season from any role players or starters yet.
Whereas we have seen Lopez, Rondo, Zipster and Portis elevate their games in this matchup so I don't take offense to anything he said about the players.
Where I do take the opposite side of Ainge is where he defends his record at the trade deadline. You can't tell me that Gibson or Noel couldn't have been had for the Celtics 2018 first rounder, that deal was there for sure and was squandered.
Playing devils advocate though, Noel and Gibson are both free agents, so trading for them takes you out the running for Hayward on July 1st. Thinking about it logically for the long term if you know you can't beat the Cavs this year he did do the right thing.
Just because those deals help you win a series this year doesn't mean they are the right decisions in the long term.
One thing that sucks though is that if/when the Bulls beat the Celtics, Jimmy Butler will be off the market at the draft, the Bulls will feel like they beat the one seed and will continue to build with a core of Rondo, Wade and Butler. Thats a big time loss if we drop out of the 1 or 2 spot and will look to trade the pick if its number 3 or 4 which I feel is Ainge's plan.
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Yes, BIG blame on himself. Again, could've given up scratch for Ibaka and/or maybe Cousins. Instantly solves our rebounding woes and added scoring.
I'm about to blame Stevens for blowing Games 1 and 2 too for poor adjustments, not firing up his team, lack of standards etc.
And of course, all the players NEED TO STEP UP. Everyone not named Wyc Grousbeck is damaging the Celtics' playoff run right now!!
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Do we really want him telling the players that "oops, our players are not good enough and we should have added someone" in the middle of a playoff series where they are down?
That's something for him to work on and discuss after the season.
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Yes, BIG blame on himself. Again, could've given up scratch for Ibaka and/or maybe Cousins. Instantly solves our rebounding woes and added scoring.
I'm about to blame Stevens for blowing Games 1 and 2 too for poor adjustments, not firing up his team, lack of standards etc.
And of course, all the players NEED TO STEP UP. Everyone not named Wyc Grousbeck is damaging the Celtics' playoff run right now!!
Ainge doesn't deserve criticism for not getting anyone like Ibaka or Noel. Those guys aren't winning us a title, will only complicate salary cap issues and would mean giving up draft picks and the cost-controlled rookie deals that will be like gold for teams being forced to overpay their veterans.
Passing on Cousins is something else. If this team loses in the first round and we don't add a 1st tier free agent this offseason, Ainge will deserve every bit of venom directed his way. Cousins is as talented as anyone else we could get and wasn't going to cost very much. Turning your nose up at him when and then getting your butts kicked in the first round is not acceptable.
Mike
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Playing devils advocate though, Noel and Gibson are both free agents, so trading for them takes you out the running for Hayward on July 1st. Thinking about it logically for the long term if you know you can't beat the Cavs this year he did do the right thing.
Of course, getting smacked around by the Bulls in round one probably takes us out of the running, too.
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Playing devils advocate though, Noel and Gibson are both free agents, so trading for them takes you out the running for Hayward on July 1st. Thinking about it logically for the long term if you know you can't beat the Cavs this year he did do the right thing.
Of course, getting smacked around by the Bulls in round one probably takes us out of the running, too.
Could've said the same thing last year before Durant met with us and we signed Horford. In fact, I recall everyone was saying the same thing.
Disappointed in you Pho. I didn't think you would get emotional. The only GM's who ever make mistakes are the ones who get emotional in this league. For example, negotiating trades takes time. The only leverage a team like the Celtics has in these talks is time. You really think Hayward won't sign here when he sees us draft a Brooklyn pick? And then we could flip Crowder for something....
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To me a big part of the question is "Ok. No player has elevated their game. Not enough to get out of round one. What will you do about it? Do you plan to keep around a lot of players that didn't elevate their game in the playoffs? Do you plan to keep around a coach that can't get a single player to elevate their games in the playoffs? I agree with you not a single player has elevated their game. Now what do you plan to do about that?"
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To me a big part of the question is "Ok. No player has elevated their game. Not enough to get out of round one. What will you do about it? Do you plan to keep around a lot of players that didn't elevate their game in the playoffs? Do you plan to keep around a coach that can't get a single player to elevate their games in the playoffs? I agree with you not a single player has elevated their game. Now what do you plan to do about that?"
Good questions
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Could've said the same thing last year before Durant met with us and we signed Horford. In fact, I recall everyone was saying the same thing.
Disappointed in you Pho. I didn't think you would get emotional. The only GM's who ever make mistakes are the ones who get emotional in this league. For example, negotiating trades takes time. The only leverage a team like the Celtics has in these talks is time. You really think Hayward won't sign here when he sees us draft a Brooklyn pick? And then we could flip Crowder for something....
I don't necessarily think it was the wrong decision to hold back on making a deal at mid-season. I think what we're seeing in the playoffs right now is proof that this team was not one mid-season acquisition away from making a deep run.
You're right that the best GMs do not make emotional decisions (there is a reason I am a fan and not a GM ... OK, there are MANY reasons why that is the case).
I was very surprised when Horford signed with us last year. I didn't expect it. At the same time, I don't think Horford expected that the Hawks would balk at giving him a full max deal. Utah won't be making the same mistake with Hayward.
With all of that said, I don't think the comparison to last year is apt here. Last year, the Celts played an opponent that had more experience and arguably more talent, home court advantage, and that won the same number of games in the regular season. They were generally overmatched in that series but managed to push it to 6 games despite losing Avery Bradley early in the series.
This year, the Celts are the #1 seed playing a first round series against an opponent with a deeply flawed roster that won 12 fewer games than they did in the regular season. They are getting their butts kicked so far.
I don't think that FAs necessarily make decisions based on what just happened in the playoffs ... not entirely, anyway. But I think it will definitely play a role.
If Danny had the chance to add a player like Noel, Mason Plumlee, Nurkic, or even Tucker at the halfway point for the price of, say, Jerebko or Rozier and a lesser pick, I think there was probably a strong argument to be made that he should have done it.
Back then, I felt that this team could win a playoff series and push a second round opponent to the brink whether or not they made a move. That now appears to have been a deeply mistaken impression of how good this team is.
If Hayward is coming off a first round loss with the Jazz, wherein they pushed the Clippers to 6 or 7 games despite losing Rudy Gobert at the very beginning of Game 1, how would you expect him to feel about the Celts, by comparison, if they get smoked by the Bulls in 4 or 5 games (which is where this appears to be headed)?
Not to mention that the cap situation is going to make getting Hayward pretty difficult regardless. Though on the other hand, at this point I really wouldn't mind jettisoning all of our FAs and trading Avery Bradley or Jae Crowder for cap space and a pick or something like that.
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I acknowledge for the past 2 years ( and probably longer)I have been in the minority of CB for the process/direction I'd like to see DA take this team. DA has been out-drafted and outperformed as a GM the last couple years and it really became noticeable right after the trade deadline in 2015. Most, not everything, since then has been sub-par and at times even negligent.
-Keeping Bass, Jonas, Gigi after the trade deadline cost us the 9th-11th pick in the 2015 draft. We were 3 wins away from the 10th/11th pick. I know he was trying to trade ET and the rest of the players I listed but after the deadline he should have waived all of them and let the younger guys develop. He underestimated how bad other teams were going to tank and just how crappy the EAST was that year.
-Remember the treasure of picks he offered for his fetish Justise Winslow....That was literally 1 hair away from Jordans "stache" to being accepted....and had Ainge done the responsible thing and waived Bass, Jonas, and Gigi THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN OUR PICK!
-He loves using players that have no future with our team, and eventually walk for nothing, to: USURP all the minutes, take development time away from younger players, and worst of all inflate our record.
-Besides Brown and Zizic he drafted horribly in 2016. He had plenty of time to consolidate the picks but even then he made horrible moves and selections with all but 2 of our picks.
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Lots of blame to go around...but it all comes down to LOUSY Drafting by Danny Ainge.
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Now that I take a step back, I'm thinkng this :
Right now we are in the emotion of the series that is going wrong. But who thought we were actual contenders this year ?
And when you are a Celtic, is a Conference finals or even (in a dream case) NBA Finals enough? The banner counts and that's all.
Maybe there were a few cheap centers to find this year but if he thinks he can get better this summer and/or he believes in his young players (Zizic / Yabusele ), why rush it ?
I don't mean Ainge is perfect but seriously, I believe in him and I firmly believes he has a vision. A long term one not just a "1 or 2 years contenters at max" deal. Because he knows the C's are more than that.
I really want to give him credit, hoping this summer will finally bring big moves for us, unlike the 2 previous years when it was always the "don't move for now" story.
Of course it's a shame that our players might not get a lot of play-off experience but at least ,we start to see who is shaped for play-off, and who can let us some cap space this summer...
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And when you are a Celtic, is a Conference finals or even (in a dream case) NBA Finals enough?
Not getting waxed by inferior teams is enough.
Not getting waxed by superior teams is a bonus.
This series is neither of the two so far, so...
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And when you are a Celtic, is a Conference finals or even (in a dream case) NBA Finals enough?
Not getting waxed by inferior teams is enough.
Not getting waxed by superior teams is a bonus.
This series is neither of the two so far, so...
Yes of course pride takes a hit. But again, I think we're letting the emotions talk and we're not taking a step back to look the bigger picture. It's my point. But I won't say seing the Bulls give us a lesson doens't pain me A LOT.
If it makes the future better (for reason Ainge knows and we don't, because we see all this from a spectator seat), then so be it.
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And when you are a Celtic, is a Conference finals or even (in a dream case) NBA Finals enough?
Not getting waxed by inferior teams is enough.
Not getting waxed by superior teams is a bonus.
This series is neither of the two so far, so...
Yes of course pride takes a hit. But again, I think we're letting the emotions talk and we're not taking a step back to look the bigger picture. It's my point. But I won't say seing the Bulls give us a lesson doens't pain me A LOT.
If it makes the future better (for reason Ainge knows and we don't, because we see all this from a spectator seat), then so be it.
The bigger picture is that if these guys can't buckle up and be competitive when it matters -- let alone against an inferior team -- then we should be thinking about getting rid of any and all all of them before we're relevant again. Objectively, that's not only painful to watch, but also doesn't particularly make the future better. Going back to square one is not improvement down the road, just added uncertainty.
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I don't necessarily think it was the wrong decision to hold back on making a deal at mid-season. I think what we're seeing in the playoffs right now is proof that this team was not one mid-season acquisition away from making a deep run.
I was very surprised when Horford signed with us last year. I didn't expect it. At the same time, I don't think Horford expected that the Hawks would balk at giving him a full max deal.
This is speculation but I think you're mis-reading what happened. I think Horford was nothing more than a lure for Durant. He was Ray Allen 2.0.
At that point, Danny thought we had a really good shot at KD. And we probably did.
But, the chips didn't fall our way, and my personal guess is that since the day Durant signed with the Warriors, Danny has viewed this as a dead team walking for the entire year. That's why he didn't invest in acquiring role players (we have no chance even with them) or stars (even Cousins wouldn't push us over the top).
Stevens once again made life difficult by shoe-horning us into the #1 seed and the curse of expectations. But that's no one's fault. Nor is what's happening now, which is an outcome that would be unsurprising if we were the #4 seed (which, but for a few injuries and other things, we could be).
I think Danny has his mind on May 16th and beyond, and he has no regrets about the decisions he made this year, because he believes we never had a real chance.
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And when you are a Celtic, is a Conference finals or even (in a dream case) NBA Finals enough?
Not getting waxed by inferior teams is enough.
Not getting waxed by superior teams is a bonus.
This series is neither of the two so far, so...
Yes of course pride takes a hit. But again, I think we're letting the emotions talk and we're not taking a step back to look the bigger picture. It's my point. But I won't say seing the Bulls give us a lesson doens't pain me A LOT.
If it makes the future better (for reason Ainge knows and we don't, because we see all this from a spectator seat), then so be it.
The bigger picture is that if these guys can't buckle up and be competitive when it matters -- let alone against an inferior team -- then we should be thinking about getting rid of any and all all of them before we're relevant again. Objectively, that's not only painful to watch, but also doesn't particularly make the future better. Going back to square one is not improvement down the road, just added uncertainty.
Knowing who's to keep and who's to throw after testing in playoffs is a step forward. Which is why I would really love to play against the Wizards to compare to a real team. But yes, I agree
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Could've said the same thing last year before Durant met with us and we signed Horford. In fact, I recall everyone was saying the same thing.
Disappointed in you Pho. I didn't think you would get emotional. The only GM's who ever make mistakes are the ones who get emotional in this league. For example, negotiating trades takes time. The only leverage a team like the Celtics has in these talks is time. You really think Hayward won't sign here when he sees us draft a Brooklyn pick? And then we could flip Crowder for something....
I don't necessarily think it was the wrong decision to hold back on making a deal at mid-season. I think what we're seeing in the playoffs right now is proof that this team was not one mid-season acquisition away from making a deep run.
You're right that the best GMs do not make emotional decisions (there is a reason I am a fan and not a GM ... OK, there are MANY reasons why that is the case).
I was very surprised when Horford signed with us last year. I didn't expect it. At the same time, I don't think Horford expected that the Hawks would balk at giving him a full max deal. Utah won't be making the same mistake with Hayward.
With all of that said, I don't think the comparison to last year is apt here. Last year, the Celts played an opponent that had more experience and arguably more talent, home court advantage, and that won the same number of games in the regular season. They were generally overmatched in that series but managed to push it to 6 games despite losing Avery Bradley early in the series.
This year, the Celts are the #1 seed playing a first round series against an opponent with a deeply flawed roster that won 12 fewer games than they did in the regular season. They are getting their butts kicked so far.
I don't think that FAs necessarily make decisions based on what just happened in the playoffs ... not entirely, anyway. But I think it will definitely play a role.
If Danny had the chance to add a player like Noel, Mason Plumlee, Nurkic, or even Tucker at the halfway point for the price of, say, Jerebko or Rozier and a lesser pick, I think there was probably a strong argument to be made that he should have done it.
Back then, I felt that this team could win a playoff series and push a second round opponent to the brink whether or not they made a move. That now appears to have been a deeply mistaken impression of how good this team is.
If Hayward is coming off a first round loss with the Jazz, wherein they pushed the Clippers to 6 or 7 games despite losing Rudy Gobert at the very beginning of Game 1, how would you expect him to feel about the Celts, by comparison, if they get smoked by the Bulls in 4 or 5 games (which is where this appears to be headed)?
Not to mention that the cap situation is going to make getting Hayward pretty difficult regardless. Though on the other hand, at this point I really wouldn't mind jettisoning all of our FAs and trading Avery Bradley or Jae Crowder for cap space and a pick or something like that.
All fair points Pho. I do think there was some luck involved in signing Horford now that you mention it.We'll have to see how the off-season plays out, but I'm pretty optimistic about it. We have a lot of assets and flexibility. Series isn't over yet as well. I think Ainge could swing a trade for two superstars, or maybe he trades his mid-age players for younger players with better upside. Either way, our team has the flexibility to go either direction. Hard to ask for more imo.
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Could've said the same thing last year before Durant met with us and we signed Horford. In fact, I recall everyone was saying the same thing.
Disappointed in you Pho. I didn't think you would get emotional. The only GM's who ever make mistakes are the ones who get emotional in this league. For example, negotiating trades takes time. The only leverage a team like the Celtics has in these talks is time. You really think Hayward won't sign here when he sees us draft a Brooklyn pick? And then we could flip Crowder for something....
I don't necessarily think it was the wrong decision to hold back on making a deal at mid-season. I think what we're seeing in the playoffs right now is proof that this team was not one mid-season acquisition away from making a deep run.
You're right that the best GMs do not make emotional decisions (there is a reason I am a fan and not a GM ... OK, there are MANY reasons why that is the case).
I was very surprised when Horford signed with us last year. I didn't expect it. At the same time, I don't think Horford expected that the Hawks would balk at giving him a full max deal. Utah won't be making the same mistake with Hayward.
With all of that said, I don't think the comparison to last year is apt here. Last year, the Celts played an opponent that had more experience and arguably more talent, home court advantage, and that won the same number of games in the regular season. They were generally overmatched in that series but managed to push it to 6 games despite losing Avery Bradley early in the series.
This year, the Celts are the #1 seed playing a first round series against an opponent with a deeply flawed roster that won 12 fewer games than they did in the regular season. They are getting their butts kicked so far.
I don't think that FAs necessarily make decisions based on what just happened in the playoffs ... not entirely, anyway. But I think it will definitely play a role.
If Danny had the chance to add a player like Noel, Mason Plumlee, Nurkic, or even Tucker at the halfway point for the price of, say, Jerebko or Rozier and a lesser pick, I think there was probably a strong argument to be made that he should have done it.
Back then, I felt that this team could win a playoff series and push a second round opponent to the brink whether or not they made a move. That now appears to have been a deeply mistaken impression of how good this team is.
If Hayward is coming off a first round loss with the Jazz, wherein they pushed the Clippers to 6 or 7 games despite losing Rudy Gobert at the very beginning of Game 1, how would you expect him to feel about the Celts, by comparison, if they get smoked by the Bulls in 4 or 5 games (which is where this appears to be headed)?
Not to mention that the cap situation is going to make getting Hayward pretty difficult regardless. Though on the other hand, at this point I really wouldn't mind jettisoning all of our FAs and trading Avery Bradley or Jae Crowder for cap space and a pick or something like that.
All fair points Pho. I do think there was some luck involved in signing Horford now that you mention it.We'll have to see how the off-season plays out, but I'm pretty optimistic about it. We have a lot of assets and flexibility. Series isn't over yet as well. I think Ainge could swing a trade for two superstars, or maybe he trades his mid-age players for younger players with better upside. Either way, our team has the flexibility to go either direction. Hard to ask for more imo.
I agree with most of Pho's points. I have to say though one I disagree with is that this years matchup is different because the Hawks last year were more experienced than us. The Bulls have two starters who were starters on championship teams. Those two guys alone have more playoff experience than our whole roster. Besides Horford, the rest of our team is still very inexperienced, and we're relying on young guys like Smart, Olynyk and Rozier to play significant roles for us in the playoffs. That's partly why our bench looks so weak. ITs only playoff experience was getting wupped last year by the Hawks.
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I don't necessarily think it was the wrong decision to hold back on making a deal at mid-season. I think what we're seeing in the playoffs right now is proof that this team was not one mid-season acquisition away from making a deep run.
I was very surprised when Horford signed with us last year. I didn't expect it. At the same time, I don't think Horford expected that the Hawks would balk at giving him a full max deal.
This is speculation but I think you're mis-reading what happened. I think Horford was nothing more than a lure for Durant. He was Ray Allen 2.0.
At that point, Danny thought we had a really good shot at KD. And we probably did.
But, the chips didn't fall our way, and my personal guess is that since the day Durant signed with the Warriors, Danny has viewed this as a dead team walking for the entire year. That's why he didn't invest in acquiring role players (we have no chance even with them) or stars (even Cousins wouldn't push us over the top).
Stevens once again made life difficult by shoe-horning us into the #1 seed and the curse of expectations. But that's no one's fault. Nor is what's happening now, which is an outcome that would be unsurprising if we were the #4 seed (which, but for a few injuries and other things, we could be).
I think Danny has his mind on May 16th and beyond, and he has no regrets about the decisions he made this year, because he believes we never had a real chance.
well argued. a tp sir.
i would throw in a point made in various forms up above about trading for noel. he would have been nice to have, but as was pointed out in other threads he would either be a rental, or, clog up the salary cap without being a super star.
cousins? a lot GMs passed this chance it seems, so i dont blame ainge.
from day one, ainge has been looking past this season to next year i think.
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Do we really want him telling the players that "oops, our players are not good enough and we should have added someone" in the middle of a playoff series where they are down?
That's something for him to work on and discuss after the season.
This is a really good point. Nothing good can come from Danny critiquing Stevens or the roster construction while the team is still alive.
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And when you are a Celtic, is a Conference finals or even (in a dream case) NBA Finals enough?
Not getting waxed by inferior teams is enough.
Not getting waxed by superior teams is a bonus.
This series is neither of the two so far, so
Yes of course pride takes a hit. But again, I think we're letting the emotions talk and we're not taking a step back to look the bigger picture. It's my point. But I won't say seing the Bulls give us a lesson doens't pain me A LOT.
If it makes the future better (for reason Ainge knows and we don't, because we see all this from a spectator seat), then so be it.
Comes down from the clouds man
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I don't necessarily think it was the wrong decision to hold back on making a deal at mid-season. I think what we're seeing in the playoffs right now is proof that this team was not one mid-season acquisition away from making a deep run.
I was very surprised when Horford signed with us last year. I didn't expect it. At the same time, I don't think Horford expected that the Hawks would balk at giving him a full max deal.
This is speculation but I think you're mis-reading what happened. I think Horford was nothing more than a lure for Durant. He was Ray Allen 2.0.
At that point, Danny thought we had a really good shot at KD. And we probably did.
But, the chips didn't fall our way, and my personal guess is that since the day Durant signed with the Warriors, Danny has viewed this as a dead team walking for the entire year. That's why he didn't invest in acquiring role players (we have no chance even with them) or stars (even Cousins wouldn't push us over the top).
Stevens once again made life difficult by shoe-horning us into the #1 seed and the curse of expectations. But that's no one's fault. Nor is what's happening now, which is an outcome that would be unsurprising if we were the #4 seed (which, but for a few injuries and other things, we could be).
I think Danny has his mind on May 16th and beyond, and he has no regrets about the decisions he made this year, because he believes we never had a real chance.
I believe there is truth in what you say, but at the same time, i don't think Danny would make a move like locking up Horford to a long term deal if he felt there wasn't value in doing so independent of whatever decision Durant made.
Once the Horford signing happened, I believe the reasonable expectation for this team became that they would get home court in the first round and win a playoff series or come danged close, so long as major injuries didn't derail things.
If that wasn't the thinking, the Horford signing was a wildly irresponsible move. You don't made a huge long term commitment like that if the value of the move depends entirely upon one specific free agent choosing your team over three or four others.
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I don't necessarily think it was the wrong decision to hold back on making a deal at mid-season. I think what we're seeing in the playoffs right now is proof that this team was not one mid-season acquisition away from making a deep run.
I was very surprised when Horford signed with us last year. I didn't expect it. At the same time, I don't think Horford expected that the Hawks would balk at giving him a full max deal.
This is speculation but I think you're mis-reading what happened. I think Horford was nothing more than a lure for Durant. He was Ray Allen 2.0.
At that point, Danny thought we had a really good shot at KD. And we probably did.
But, the chips didn't fall our way, and my personal guess is that since the day Durant signed with the Warriors, Danny has viewed this as a dead team walking for the entire year. That's why he didn't invest in acquiring role players (we have no chance even with them) or stars (even Cousins wouldn't push us over the top).
Stevens once again made life difficult by shoe-horning us into the #1 seed and the curse of expectations. But that's no one's fault. Nor is what's happening now, which is an outcome that would be unsurprising if we were the #4 seed (which, but for a few injuries and other things, we could be).
I think Danny has his mind on May 16th and beyond, and he has no regrets about the decisions he made this year, because he believes we never had a real chance.
TP Boris. Finally someone who see the things as they are.
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1)danny-ainge-brad-stevens-playoff-record-criticism-not-making-trade
http://www.csnne.com/video/danny-ainge-brad-stevens-playoff-record-criticism-not-making-trade
2)danny-ainge-no-celtics-player-has-elevated-their-game
http://www.csnne.com/video/danny-ainge-no-celtics-player-has-elevated-their-game
I do not agree at all with the title of your thread.
I listened to his whole interview. He clearly said that criticism of him and Brad was "fine" and also said that he believes the team can win the series and that they have yet to play their best basketball.
He also said that he was more than willing to discuss his non-moves at the deadline after the season was over.
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I know I wasn't alone in looking at this team as of the Horford signing and thinking that the bar for this season had been raised to making the second round, at least, or coming close.
I think it's disingenuous for people to look at the team down two games to none against an eight seed in the first round and start saying, oh, well, I never thought they'd contend this year, so none of this matters. We have draft assets and cap space, so none of this matters.
Except that the entire idea of this team's potential to morph into a contender is based on the value of the players we already have in addition to the value of the players they might be able to add this summer. If this series is telling us that maybe the players we have already aren't as valuable as we thought, that chips away at the dream of fireworks.
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I don't necessarily think it was the wrong decision to hold back on making a deal at mid-season. I think what we're seeing in the playoffs right now is proof that this team was not one mid-season acquisition away from making a deep run.
I was very surprised when Horford signed with us last year. I didn't expect it. At the same time, I don't think Horford expected that the Hawks would balk at giving him a full max deal.
This is speculation but I think you're mis-reading what happened. I think Horford was nothing more than a lure for Durant. He was Ray Allen 2.0.
At that point, Danny thought we had a really good shot at KD. And we probably did.
But, the chips didn't fall our way, and my personal guess is that since the day Durant signed with the Warriors, Danny has viewed this as a dead team walking for the entire year. That's why he didn't invest in acquiring role players (we have no chance even with them) or stars (even Cousins wouldn't push us over the top).
Stevens once again made life difficult by shoe-horning us into the #1 seed and the curse of expectations. But that's no one's fault. Nor is what's happening now, which is an outcome that would be unsurprising if we were the #4 seed (which, but for a few injuries and other things, we could be).
I think Danny has his mind on May 16th and beyond, and he has no regrets about the decisions he made this year, because he believes we never had a real chance.
I believe there is truth in what you say, but at the same time, i don't think Danny would make a move like locking up Horford to a long term deal if he felt there wasn't value in doing so independent of whatever decision Durant made.
Once the Horford signing happened, I believe the reasonable expectation for this team became that they would get home court in the first round and win a playoff series or come danged close, so long as major injuries didn't derail things.
If that wasn't the thinking, the Horford signing was a wildly irresponsible move. You don't made a huge long term commitment like that if the value of the move depends entirely upon one specific free agent choosing your team over three or four others.
Knowing Danny, he probably estimates Horford around $18-20 millions.
But if you have a shot at Durant, you sign Horford to the max and you'll do it over an over again without hesitation.
Worse case scenario you have a great vet that will teach good things to the youngsters, an entertaining team and a good image franchise as FA destination.
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When I saw the first part of the post title I thought Ainge had been celebrating the 420 holiday today.
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When I saw the first part of the post title I thought Ainge had been celebrating the 420 holiday today.
Youre thinking "blazed."
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I don't necessarily think it was the wrong decision to hold back on making a deal at mid-season. I think what we're seeing in the playoffs right now is proof that this team was not one mid-season acquisition away from making a deep run.
I was very surprised when Horford signed with us last year. I didn't expect it. At the same time, I don't think Horford expected that the Hawks would balk at giving him a full max deal.
This is speculation but I think you're mis-reading what happened. I think Horford was nothing more than a lure for Durant. He was Ray Allen 2.0.
At that point, Danny thought we had a really good shot at KD. And we probably did.
But, the chips didn't fall our way, and my personal guess is that since the day Durant signed with the Warriors, Danny has viewed this as a dead team walking for the entire year. That's why he didn't invest in acquiring role players (we have no chance even with them) or stars (even Cousins wouldn't push us over the top).
Stevens once again made life difficult by shoe-horning us into the #1 seed and the curse of expectations. But that's no one's fault. Nor is what's happening now, which is an outcome that would be unsurprising if we were the #4 seed (which, but for a few injuries and other things, we could be).
I think Danny has his mind on May 16th and beyond, and he has no regrets about the decisions he made this year, because he believes we never had a real chance.
I believe there is truth in what you say, but at the same time, i don't think Danny would make a move like locking up Horford to a long term deal if he felt there wasn't value in doing so independent of whatever decision Durant made.
Once the Horford signing happened, I believe the reasonable expectation for this team became that they would get home court in the first round and win a playoff series or come danged close, so long as major injuries didn't derail things.
If that wasn't the thinking, the Horford signing was a wildly irresponsible move. You don't made a huge long term commitment like that if the value of the move depends entirely upon one specific free agent choosing your team over three or four others.
Well, it's not like Danny decided to max Jack Haley. Horford's pretty good and will be a good role model for the young kids.
And if nothing else, we've seen a lot less "NO FREE AGENTS SIGN IN BOSTON" threads. Heck, I would have chipped in a few bucks toward's Horford's salary just to accomplish that.
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So :D.....what do we always do when there is a problem
A Poll ! Is it Danny fault , Players or CBS mostly to blame.
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Just listened to both clips and I wouldn't describe it as being grilled. Fair questions, and honestly I agree with Danny's answers. The Bulls are a team built for the playoffs more so than the regular season, they have had some unbelievable shooting numbers so far from guys like Portis, Zipser, and Lopez, and the Celtics just haven't played well.
Can't blame Danny or Brad for missing shots, falling for pump fakes, early threes in the shot clock, and poor box outs. Ultimately the play on the court is responsible for the 0-2 start.
I would like to see some lineup adjustments from Brad though, but if the C's keep playing this way what more can he do?
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I don't necessarily think it was the wrong decision to hold back on making a deal at mid-season. I think what we're seeing in the playoffs right now is proof that this team was not one mid-season acquisition away from making a deep run.
I was very surprised when Horford signed with us last year. I didn't expect it. At the same time, I don't think Horford expected that the Hawks would balk at giving him a full max deal.
This is speculation but I think you're mis-reading what happened. I think Horford was nothing more than a lure for Durant. He was Ray Allen 2.0.
At that point, Danny thought we had a really good shot at KD. And we probably did.
But, the chips didn't fall our way, and my personal guess is that since the day Durant signed with the Warriors, Danny has viewed this as a dead team walking for the entire year. That's why he didn't invest in acquiring role players (we have no chance even with them) or stars (even Cousins wouldn't push us over the top).
Stevens once again made life difficult by shoe-horning us into the #1 seed and the curse of expectations. But that's no one's fault. Nor is what's happening now, which is an outcome that would be unsurprising if we were the #4 seed (which, but for a few injuries and other things, we could be).
I think Danny has his mind on May 16th and beyond, and he has no regrets about the decisions he made this year, because he believes we never had a real chance.
well argued. a tp sir.
i would throw in a point made in various forms up above about trading for noel. he would have been nice to have, but as was pointed out in other threads he would either be a rental, or, clog up the salary cap without being a super star.
cousins? a lot GMs passed this chance it seems, so i dont blame ainge.
from day one, ainge has been looking past this season to next year i think.
Yes he wasted a season in which Boston was the #1 seed because he wants to hold out for a homerun down the line. Sometime taking the intentional walk is the correct move. Ainge should have moved Rozier and Boston's 2018 1st for a player that could have ensured Boston at least won a playoff series and maybe even made the conference finals (even if the player was a rental). That would have helped his plan a lot more than getting drubbed by the 8th seed and having everyone call you the weakest #1 seed in NBA history.
I mean think about this, Boston would acquire a rental for the 3rd string PG (who hopefully is the 4th string PG next year) and what should be a pick in the upper 20's in a future draft and a draft you already own what projects to be a much higher pick. Boston already stashed 3 players from the last draft as well. There quite frankly isn't going to be room for all of these players so getting rid of two dreks for a top level rotation player (if not higher) was always the right move.
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Ainge signed/traded for the players on the court. He brought Brad Stevens to Boston. Some of his recent draft selections have been questionable at best. If his acquisitions aren't working, that's on him.
The argument that we shouldn't have added someone at the deadline because we were not in a position to contend was debatable, and I didn't mind much that he didn't make a move (though Nurkic would've been nice). But that logic is flawed if Ainge had any inkling whatsoever that we would get handled in the playoffs as we have. In that scenario, incremental improvement could have been important in luring FAs to Boston. He's going to be hard pressed to garner interest among FAs if Celtics are swept in yet another first round bounce.
In the same vein, the players on his roster are being exposed right now. Crowder, Bradley, Smart, etc. have all probably taken a hit in relative trade value. Would an incremental improvement have taken less of a burden (on either end) off the current players, and in turn, helped maintain their trade value? I'd prefer to have taken that chance, especially given the only realistic FA option is Hayward (who seems better situated in Utah now, anyway).
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When some of you were crying for aquiring 5-6 players, some of whom are not playing now (T. Jones, Bogut, Sanders) and now complain about our front office...
Do you really, seriously, objectively, believe in your points? Aren't you complaining just because you like to?
Think before you answer, please.
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When some of you were crying for aquiring 5-6 players, some of whom are not playing now (T. Jones, Bogut, Sanders) and now complain about our front office...
Do you really, seriously, objectively, believe in your points? Aren't you complaining just because you like to?
Think before you answer, please.
Is this directed toward me?
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Hey Danny...sometimes the thing just speaks for itself.
Not every player is a warrior, not every player will magically shift into another gear in the playoffs. Sometimes undersized, soft, and inconsistent, is just that.
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I don't necessarily think it was the wrong decision to hold back on making a deal at mid-season. I think what we're seeing in the playoffs right now is proof that this team was not one mid-season acquisition away from making a deep run.
I was very surprised when Horford signed with us last year. I didn't expect it. At the same time, I don't think Horford expected that the Hawks would balk at giving him a full max deal.
This is speculation but I think you're mis-reading what happened. I think Horford was nothing more than a lure for Durant. He was Ray Allen 2.0.
At that point, Danny thought we had a really good shot at KD. And we probably did.
But, the chips didn't fall our way, and my personal guess is that since the day Durant signed with the Warriors, Danny has viewed this as a dead team walking for the entire year. That's why he didn't invest in acquiring role players (we have no chance even with them) or stars (even Cousins wouldn't push us over the top).
Stevens once again made life difficult by shoe-horning us into the #1 seed and the curse of expectations. But that's no one's fault. Nor is what's happening now, which is an outcome that would be unsurprising if we were the #4 seed (which, but for a few injuries and other things, we could be).
I think Danny has his mind on May 16th and beyond, and he has no regrets about the decisions he made this year, because he believes we never had a real chance.
well argued. a tp sir.
i would throw in a point made in various forms up above about trading for noel. he would have been nice to have, but as was pointed out in other threads he would either be a rental, or, clog up the salary cap without being a super star.
cousins? a lot GMs passed this chance it seems, so i dont blame ainge.
from day one, ainge has been looking past this season to next year i think.
Yes he wasted a season in which Boston was the #1 seed because he wants to hold out for a homerun down the line. Sometime taking the intentional walk is the correct move. Ainge should have moved Rozier and Boston's 2018 1st for a player that could have ensured Boston at least won a playoff series and maybe even made the conference finals (even if the player was a rental). That would have helped his plan a lot more than getting drubbed by the 8th seed and having everyone call you the weakest #1 seed in NBA history.
I mean think about this, Boston would acquire a rental for the 3rd string PG (who hopefully is the 4th string PG next year) and what should be a pick in the upper 20's in a future draft and a draft you already own what projects to be a much higher pick. Boston already stashed 3 players from the last draft as well. There quite frankly isn't going to be room for all of these players so getting rid of two dreks for a top level rotation player (if not higher) was always the right move.
I'm a skeptical person by nature. Having said that, if we added Cousins and gave up no players of consequence WE WOULD MURDER the playoffs. We would be especially lethal to teams like the Cavs/Warriors/Bulls/Bucks.
IMO this is the type of team that would be perfect for Cousins, especially since there is only one other player (IT)that creates with the ball. But other strong reasons:
Having a starting lineup that already 1-4 shoot the hell out of the 3, pass, having a Legit Center shooting almost 80%ft, shoots 35% from3 . The possibility of Cousins going 1on1 against centers that don't have the tools to both physically(pwerful and 7'6'' wingspan and 9'5'' standing reach) and talent wise. On our team he could play a real nice hi-lo w/ Horford or Al could fade to the 3 and hit an open 3 when his defender helps off(both Cousins and Al are gifted passers).
idk I'm kind of rambling but one thing I know is that in this series against the Bulls Robin Lopez would be a complete no factor because he would be in foul trouble and so would the rest of their bigs. Also, the Bulls front-court would be tired as hell having to deal with the skill and sheer brute strength of an Al Horford-Cousins front-court. It would be fun as heck to watch.
IT
AB
Crowder
Horford
Cousins
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Sum it up in three words..."Lack of Talent"
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I don't necessarily think it was the wrong decision to hold back on making a deal at mid-season. I think what we're seeing in the playoffs right now is proof that this team was not one mid-season acquisition away from making a deep run.
I was very surprised when Horford signed with us last year. I didn't expect it. At the same time, I don't think Horford expected that the Hawks would balk at giving him a full max deal.
This is speculation but I think you're mis-reading what happened. I think Horford was nothing more than a lure for Durant. He was Ray Allen 2.0.
At that point, Danny thought we had a really good shot at KD. And we probably did.
But, the chips didn't fall our way, and my personal guess is that since the day Durant signed with the Warriors, Danny has viewed this as a dead team walking for the entire year. That's why he didn't invest in acquiring role players (we have no chance even with them) or stars (even Cousins wouldn't push us over the top).
Stevens once again made life difficult by shoe-horning us into the #1 seed and the curse of expectations. But that's no one's fault. Nor is what's happening now, which is an outcome that would be unsurprising if we were the #4 seed (which, but for a few injuries and other things, we could be).
I think Danny has his mind on May 16th and beyond, and he has no regrets about the decisions he made this year, because he believes we never had a real chance.
well argued. a tp sir.
i would throw in a point made in various forms up above about trading for noel. he would have been nice to have, but as was pointed out in other threads he would either be a rental, or, clog up the salary cap without being a super star.
cousins? a lot GMs passed this chance it seems, so i dont blame ainge.
from day one, ainge has been looking past this season to next year i think.
Yes he wasted a season in which Boston was the #1 seed because he wants to hold out for a homerun down the line. Sometime taking the intentional walk is the correct move. Ainge should have moved Rozier and Boston's 2018 1st for a player that could have ensured Boston at least won a playoff series and maybe even made the conference finals (even if the player was a rental). That would have helped his plan a lot more than getting drubbed by the 8th seed and having everyone call you the weakest #1 seed in NBA history.
I mean think about this, Boston would acquire a rental for the 3rd string PG (who hopefully is the 4th string PG next year) and what should be a pick in the upper 20's in a future draft and a draft you already own what projects to be a much higher pick. Boston already stashed 3 players from the last draft as well. There quite frankly isn't going to be room for all of these players so getting rid of two dreks for a top level rotation player (if not higher) was always the right move.
I'm a skeptical person by nature. Having said that, if we added Cousins and gave up no players of consequence WE WOULD MURDER the playoffs. We would be especially lethal to teams like the Cavs/Warriors/Bulls/Bucks.
IMO this is the type of team that would be perfect for Cousins, especially since there is only one other player (IT)that creates with the ball. But other strong reasons:
Having a starting lineup that already 1-4 shoot the hell out of the 3, pass, having a Legit Center shooting almost 80%ft, shoots 35% from3 . The possibility of Cousins going 1on1 against centers that don't have the tools to both physically(pwerful and 7'6'' wingspan and 9'5'' standing reach) and talent wise. On our team he could play a real nice hi-lo w/ Horford or Al could fade to the 3 and hit an open 3 when his defender helps off(both Cousins and Al are gifted passers).
idk I'm kind of rambling but one thing I know is that in this series against the Bulls Robin Lopez would be a complete no factor because he would be in foul trouble and so would the rest of their bigs. Also, the Bulls front-court would be tired as hell having to deal with the skill and sheer brute strength of an Al Horford-Cousins front-court. It would be fun as heck to watch.
IT
AB
Crowder
Horford
Cousins
Cousins is as unproven like draft picks. He put up great stats on a terrible team. You should take those stats with a grain of salt. I'd rather gamble on the draft picks. I can stomach being stomped in this post season just to become a much better team in the off season. Bulls series will decide who's to go and who's to stay.
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danny's not going to blame himself or his coach.
now, if he's really thinking these players have another level? that makes me question everything and has me worried.
for one everything going on in this series is just about how I expected things to go with whoever we played. I've said many times in the past this is a team of hustle/role players, if our starters were our bench we'd have a solid team.
hustle/ role players don't have another level or at least can't sustain playing at a higher level consistently.
but this is very concerning if Danny expected these guys to play at another level. I would never consider myself a basketball genius or even think I could pull off being a gm, coach, player, ball boy... hell I never played real organized ball just pick up games and i'm short and get dominated easily but I can shoot laser beams into the basket.
anyway my point is with my casual knowledge of this game I would think danny would at least be able to look at this team objectively and see them for what they are. I would hope that he would see that our entire front court is completely worthless, I would hope that he would see that every player on the team takes 2 dribbles and looks to pass, opposing teams figured this out last yr. and it's one of the reasons our offense goes south in the playoffs. the other reason is we take(and make) a lot of hero shots/bad contested shots in the regular season, but in the playoffs those will never fall... because they're bad shots.
everything bad about your team gets exposed in the playoffs and every yr. we've made the playoffs everyone seems to forget this esp. when it comes to this team.
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Sum it up in three words..."Lack of Talent"
And why is there this "lack of talent " ;D
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Sum it up in three words..."Lack of Talent"
And why is there this "lack of talent " ;D
This year your playing with basically the same Roster as the last 2 years plus Horford. Your 2 10 in the playoffs...
Average NBA players do not get better..
Outside of Thomas no player on this team can create offense on a consistent basis. You have zero interior presence, you have zero bench depth..
You have to identify your core players IT, Bradley, Horford. The rest you trade and try to acquire a diamond in the rough much like Thomas.. You cannot let fringe players stay around too long. You never get better..
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Meanwhile, Ibaka with just 4 pt, 1 rb and a -16 on the court with his team down by 27.
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Sum it up in three words..."Lack of Talent"
And why is there this "lack of talent " ;D
Because Stevens only wants high character guys who are easy to coach and bigs who can stretch the floor irrespective of rebounding abilities and rim protection...and Ainge allows it.
Ainge should've shoved Boogie down Stevens' throat. Time to put your big boy pants on, Brad.
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Meanwhile, Ibaka with just 4 pt, 1 rb and a -16 on the court with his team down by 27.
No one is going to read this, they're too busy posting in the "Danny sucks because he didn't draft Giannis" thread that popped up about five minutes ago.
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Yes, BIG blame on himself. Again, could've given up scratch for Ibaka and/or maybe Cousins. Instantly solves our rebounding woes and added scoring.
I'm about to blame Stevens for blowing Games 1 and 2 too for poor adjustments, not firing up his team, lack of standards etc.
And of course, all the players NEED TO STEP UP. Everyone not named Wyc Grousbeck is damaging the Celtics' playoff run right now!!
Ainge doesn't deserve criticism for not getting anyone like Ibaka or Noel. Those guys aren't winning us a title, will only complicate salary cap issues and would mean giving up draft picks and the cost-controlled rookie deals that will be like gold for teams being forced to overpay their veterans.
Passing on Cousins is something else. If this team loses in the first round and we don't add a 1st tier free agent this offseason, Ainge will deserve every bit of venom directed his way. Cousins is as talented as anyone else we could get and wasn't going to cost very much. Turning your nose up at him when and then getting your butts kicked in the first round is not acceptable.
Forget Cousins - How obvious does it have to be that the guy is a cancer on any team he plays for ?? He uses up most of his emotional energy being angry at officials and opponents instead of using it to play effective basketball. Enough with all the "misunderstood sensitive superstar" crap that has become his defining persona.
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Danny has been enamored with speed and finesse since facing the Lakers in the 1980's as a player. Never mind that the 80's Celtics size and power is what proved to be the Lakers' kryptonite. Only difference between the Celts winning five titles in the 80's instead of the Lakers is that Len Bias died two days after being drafted and James Worthy did not.
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Danny has been enamored with speed and finesse since facing the Lakers in the 1980's as a player. Never mind that the 80's Celtics size and power is what proved to be the Lakers' kryptonite. Only difference between the Celts winning five titles in the 80's instead of the Lakers is that Len Bias died two days after being drafted and James Worthy did not.
Excellent post.
And I think 5 is being conservative....some of Chi's titles would've also come our way.
Bias was a mean (on the court), skilled monster and a class kid. He would've extended all of the Big 3's careers and MJ would've had his rival counterpart a la Bird/Magic.....and he wouldn't have had 6 rings.
Had seasons from 79-90....makes me sick to think about it.
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We lack talent? Yes, in terms of winning a ring.
But do we seriously lack the talent to beat the Bulls??
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Lets see what happens tomorrow...its not over yet
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Lets see what happens tomorrow...its not over yet
😁 The balance of a Celtic total collapse this post season is hanging on rotten thread.....the ship is full of water and hurricane is still blow n hard
I'm not counting any chickens ...... ;D
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I acknowledge for the past 2 years ( and probably longer)I have been in the minority of CB for the process/direction I'd like to see DA take this team. DA has been out-drafted and outperformed as a GM the last couple years and it really became noticeable right after the trade deadline in 2015. Most, not everything, since then has been sub-par and at times even negligent.
-Keeping Bass, Jonas, Gigi after the trade deadline cost us the 9th-11th pick in the 2015 draft. We were 3 wins away from the 10th/11th pick. I know he was trying to trade ET and the rest of the players I listed but after the deadline he should have waived all of them and let the younger guys develop. He underestimated how bad other teams were going to tank and just how crappy the EAST was that year.
-Remember the treasure of picks he offered for his fetish Justise Winslow....That was literally 1 hair away from Jordans "stache" to being accepted....and had Ainge done the responsible thing and waived Bass, Jonas, and Gigi THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN OUR PICK!
-He loves using players that have no future with our team, and eventually walk for nothing, to: USURP all the minutes, take development time away from younger players, and worst of all inflate our record.
-Besides Brown and Zizic he drafted horribly in 2016. He had plenty of time to consolidate the picks but even then he made horrible moves and selections with all but 2 of our picks.
I think the jury is still out on Yabu, seems a very intriguing prospect to me although that was a reach. Also he flipped 2 seconds for a first when he was pressed to trade those picks because of roster spots so I think while we could've used Davis it wasn't a horrible deal. However, if Brown turns to be a stud and Zizic and Yabu become solid players at least the draft will be a success. Let's hope for the best
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Danny has been enamored with speed and finesse since facing the Lakers in the 1980's as a player. Never mind that the 80's Celtics size and power is what proved to be the Lakers' kryptonite. Only difference between the Celts winning five titles in the 80's instead of the Lakers is that Len Bias died two days after being drafted and James Worthy did not.
Excellent post.
And I think 5 is being conservative....some of Chi's titles would've also come our way.
Bias was a mean (on the court), skilled monster and a class kid. He would've extended all of the Big 3's careers and MJ would've had his rival counterpart a la Bird/Magic.....and he wouldn't have had 6 rings.
Had seasons from 79-90....makes me sick to think about it.
So true. Bias had Jordanesque talent and was an equally terrific person. No hyperbole whatever.
I remember how happy he was to be drafted by the Celtics because he knew he was going to be playing a ton of ball with Larry, Kevin and Chief. Just pure joy in that post-selection smile.
Too sad for words.
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Danny has been enamored with speed and finesse since facing the Lakers in the 1980's as a player. Never mind that the 80's Celtics size and power is what proved to be the Lakers' kryptonite. Only difference between the Celts winning five titles in the 80's instead of the Lakers is that Len Bias died two days after being drafted and James Worthy did not.
Excellent post.
And I think 5 is being conservative....some of Chi's titles would've also come our way.
Bias was a mean (on the court), skilled monster and a class kid. He would've extended all of the Big 3's careers and MJ would've had his rival counterpart a la Bird/Magic.....and he wouldn't have had 6 rings.
Had seasons from 79-90....makes me sick to think about it.
So true. Bias had Jordanesque talent and was an equally terrific person. No hyperbole whatever.
I remember how happy he was to be drafted by the Celtics because he knew he was going to be playing a ton of ball with Larry, Kevin and Chief. Just pure joy in that post-selection smile.
Too sad for words.
I was not even born until the pierce era but still I feel that if Bias and Lewis hadn't died we would've had another dynasty in the 90s
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Danny has been enamored with speed and finesse since facing the Lakers in the 1980's as a player. Never mind that the 80's Celtics size and power is what proved to be the Lakers' kryptonite. Only difference between the Celts winning five titles in the 80's instead of the Lakers is that Len Bias died two days after being drafted and James Worthy did not.
Excellent post.
And I think 5 is being conservative....some of Chi's titles would've also come our way.
Bias was a mean (on the court), skilled monster and a class kid. He would've extended all of the Big 3's careers and MJ would've had his rival counterpart a la Bird/Magic.....and he wouldn't have had 6 rings.
Had seasons from 79-90....makes me sick to think about it.
So true. Bias had Jordanesque talent and was an equally terrific person. No hyperbole whatever.
I remember how happy he was to be drafted by the Celtics because he knew he was going to be playing a ton of ball with Larry, Kevin and Chief. Just pure joy in that post-selection smile.
Too sad for words.
I was not even born until the pierce era but still I feel that if Bias and Lewis hadn't died we would've had another dynasty in the 90s
That's exactly right. And now I'm ashamed of myself for the profoundly senior moment of overlooking Reggie, another really good guy and fantastic talent as well as a local product [Northeastern].
Len and Reggie would have been exceedingly worthy successors to The Big Three and the grand Celtics' tradition. It seemed perfectly apropos that both were going to be wearing green for, as you say, a really long time.
I can still remember exactly where I was and what I felt when I heard the awful news in both instances. It still seems as impossible now as it did then. And even more sad. Is that possible? Yeah, it is.
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We have the skillset and the coaching to beat up the bulls in a certain way. We have not shown the warrior mindset to make the games play out to our strengths.
I mean aren't we supposed to be an elite transition defense team? Aren't we supposed to be killing the Bulls bigs by constantly having them out of their comfort zone on the perimeter? Aren't we the team in the series killing the opponent in transition?
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When some of you were crying for aquiring 5-6 players, some of whom are not playing now (T. Jones, Bogut, Sanders) and now complain about our front office...
Do you really, seriously, objectively, believe in your points? Aren't you complaining just because you like to?
Think before you answer, please.
Is this directed toward me?
No, not intended personally towards or against nobody (sorry if you thought so). I just feel people like complaining for nothing, I remember weeks ago people telling Ainge is a moron for not getting players that are now unemployed. Some CB users were angry for not signing Sanders, when our scouts, front office and organization had seen him working out and we hadn't.
It's just a bit of frustration when people keep this pessimistic, overcritic (does it exist?) attitude, when we are always ranked on top of every ranking of coach/management/front office/ownership. We have two very high picks coming this and next year and, accidentally (Cleveland failed, Lowry injured...), we've been nº 1 seed in the East. Our team is far from built to get a ring, but keeps improving every year. If we haven't acquired that last piece is not because Ainge has been lazy, but the opportunities haven't been appealing enough. Well, I think we all thought our team was better suited for regular season than for playoffs, and I understand some disappointment I share, but we have to bear in mind that there are 30 teams wanting to win, not only us. It's not that easy or simple.
I just think so much negative comments are not realistic, deserved or well-thought at all.
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Ainge qoutes
The fear with this (Celtics) team, sometimes they try to win the easy way as if they are the ’86 Celtics or the ’85 Lakers team and they just aren’t,” Ainge, Boston’s president of basketball operations, said during his weekly call-in to 98.5 The Sports Hub’s Toucher & Rich show, via CSNNE.com. “If they don’t play with maximum effort for 40 minutes a night, Chicago will beat us.”
http://clutchpoints.com/danny-ainge-warns-celtics-overconfident-no-1-seed/
This is true. The lack of effort is perplexing.
“The Cavaliers have the most talent; everybody knows that,” Ainge said. “Some people think that’s conceding by me saying that. But that’s not the case. If I go out and play golf with Phil Mickelson, I think I have a chance to beat him even though I know I probably won’t.”
http://clutchpoints.com/danny-ainge-warns-celtics-overconfident-no-1-seed/
Ainge here is stating that we have no chance to beat the Cavs. I think this is telling us that we can't compete, even though he denies it. This is a bad message to send to the players. Trouble, is we may not be able to beat the Bulls. Could we be a team not built for playoff basketball.
“I’m certainly aware of all of our competition around the East,” Ainge said. “It’s not from a lack of desire to want to do a trade, but as an organization we have priorities and a plan. “We’re not looking for Band-Aids and we’re not looking to give up future assets. We’re trying to build something more sustainable than a rent-a-player.
Read more at: http://nesn.com/2017/02/danny-ainge-hints-at-celtics-trade-deadline-plan-not-seeking-rent-a-player/
It is pretty obvious we have bigger holes than a Band-Aid could fix, heck we might need a tourniquet. We are soft, lack a second scorer and don't rebound. I think Ainge has fell in love with his assets. Some of the assets have their warts. He is in it for the long game. Boston is a city of Champions and impatient to some degree in wanting a winner. Most cities would love to have the titles they have.
This team overachieved once again, and was fun to watch. But talent matters and the playoffs are a different game.
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Ainge qoutes
The fear with this (Celtics) team, sometimes they try to win the easy way as if they are the ’86 Celtics or the ’85 Lakers team and they just aren’t,” Ainge, Boston’s president of basketball operations, said during his weekly call-in to 98.5 The Sports Hub’s Toucher & Rich show, via CSNNE.com. “If they don’t play with maximum effort for 40 minutes a night, Chicago will beat us.”
http://clutchpoints.com/danny-ainge-warns-celtics-overconfident-no-1-seed/
This is true. The lack of effort is perplexing.
“The Cavaliers have the most talent; everybody knows that,” Ainge said. “Some people think that’s conceding by me saying that. But that’s not the case. If I go out and play golf with Phil Mickelson, I think I have a chance to beat him even though I know I probably won’t.”
http://clutchpoints.com/danny-ainge-warns-celtics-overconfident-no-1-seed/
Ainge here is stating that we have no chance to beat the Cavs. I think this is telling us that we can't compete, even though he denies it. This is a bad message to send to the players. Trouble, is we may not be able to beat the Bulls. Could we be a team not built for playoff basketball.
“I’m certainly aware of all of our competition around the East,” Ainge said. “It’s not from a lack of desire to want to do a trade, but as an organization we have priorities and a plan. “We’re not looking for Band-Aids and we’re not looking to give up future assets. We’re trying to build something more sustainable than a rent-a-player.
Read more at: http://nesn.com/2017/02/danny-ainge-hints-at-celtics-trade-deadline-plan-not-seeking-rent-a-player/
It is pretty obvious we have bigger holes than a Band-Aid could fix, heck we might need a tourniquet. We are soft, lack a second scorer and don't rebound. I think Ainge has fell in love with his assets. Some of the assets have their warts. He is in it for the long game. Boston is a city of Champions and impatient to some degree in wanting a winner. Most cities would love to have the titles they have.
This team overachieved once again, and was fun to watch. But talent matters and the playoffs are a different game.
I agree with everything you said, especially about the last quote.TP.
I comforts me in my opinion : Ainge sees further than this year, and therefore, this series against the Bulls. He never had precise objectives about this post-season so I believe he's not "blaming himself" (as the topic title suggests he sould) because he's still following his path.
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“I’m certainly aware of all of our competition around the East,” Ainge said. “It’s not from a lack of desire to want to do a trade, but as an organization we have priorities and a plan. “We’re not looking for Band-Aids and we’re not looking to give up future assets. We’re trying to build something more sustainable than a rent-a-player.
Read more at: http://nesn.com/2017/02/danny-ainge-hints-at-celtics-trade-deadline-plan-not-seeking-rent-a-player/
It is pretty obvious we have bigger holes than a Band-Aid could fix, heck we might need a tourniquet. We are soft, lack a second scorer and don't rebound. I think Ainge has fell in love with his assets. Some of the assets have their warts. He is in it for the long game. Boston is a city of Champions and impatient to some degree in wanting a winner. Most cities would love to have the titles they have.
This team overachieved once again, and was fun to watch. But talent matters and the playoffs are a different game.
For those complaining about Ainge not doing a deal this season, this quote is key. He knows the team isn't good enough to compete for a championship and he also knows that any of the minor deals that were available to him wouldn't have gotten the team to that level either, but might have constricted his ability to do a deal this summer which could get them into contention.
Basically, he sees a short term fix as being harmful to the long term success.
You don't have to agree but if the C's wind up landing a big fish this summer with assets that otherwise might not have been available, everyone here will be pretty happy.
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“I’m certainly aware of all of our competition around the East,” Ainge said. “It’s not from a lack of desire to want to do a trade, but as an organization we have priorities and a plan. “We’re not looking for Band-Aids and we’re not looking to give up future assets. We’re trying to build something more sustainable than a rent-a-player.
Read more at: http://nesn.com/2017/02/danny-ainge-hints-at-celtics-trade-deadline-plan-not-seeking-rent-a-player/
It is pretty obvious we have bigger holes than a Band-Aid could fix, heck we might need a tourniquet. We are soft, lack a second scorer and don't rebound. I think Ainge has fell in love with his assets. Some of the assets have their warts. He is in it for the long game. Boston is a city of Champions and impatient to some degree in wanting a winner. Most cities would love to have the titles they have.
This team overachieved once again, and was fun to watch. But talent matters and the playoffs are a different game.
For those complaining about Ainge not doing a deal this season, this quote is key. He knows the team isn't good enough to compete for a championship and he also knows that any of the minor deals that were available to him wouldn't have gotten the team to that level either, but might have constricted his ability to do a deal this summer which could get them into contention.
Basically, he sees a short term fix as being harmful to the long term success.
You don't have to agree but if the C's wind up landing a big fish this summer with assets that otherwise might not have been available, everyone here will be pretty happy.
There is a difference between making the team a contender and making the team good enough to win a playoff series and be attractive to free agents. Instead Ainge told every free agent that he wasn't willing to improve the team while everyone else did.
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“I’m certainly aware of all of our competition around the East,” Ainge said. “It’s not from a lack of desire to want to do a trade, but as an organization we have priorities and a plan. “We’re not looking for Band-Aids and we’re not looking to give up future assets. We’re trying to build something more sustainable than a rent-a-player.
Read more at: http://nesn.com/2017/02/danny-ainge-hints-at-celtics-trade-deadline-plan-not-seeking-rent-a-player/
It is pretty obvious we have bigger holes than a Band-Aid could fix, heck we might need a tourniquet. We are soft, lack a second scorer and don't rebound. I think Ainge has fell in love with his assets. Some of the assets have their warts. He is in it for the long game. Boston is a city of Champions and impatient to some degree in wanting a winner. Most cities would love to have the titles they have.
This team overachieved once again, and was fun to watch. But talent matters and the playoffs are a different game.
For those complaining about Ainge not doing a deal this season, this quote is key. He knows the team isn't good enough to compete for a championship and he also knows that any of the minor deals that were available to him wouldn't have gotten the team to that level either, but might have constricted his ability to do a deal this summer which could get them into contention.
Basically, he sees a short term fix as being harmful to the long term success.
You don't have to agree but if the C's wind up landing a big fish this summer with assets that otherwise might not have been available, everyone here will be pretty happy.
There is a difference between making the team a contender and making the team good enough to win a playoff series and be attractive to free agents. Instead Ainge told every free agent that he wasn't willing to improve the team while everyone else did.
Yes, all the free agents that have only been alive for the last 6 months will think this.
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Ainge told every free agent that he wasn't willing to improve the team while everyone else did.
We can be sure free agents and their representatives don't think so poorly.
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“I’m certainly aware of all of our competition around the East,” Ainge said. “It’s not from a lack of desire to want to do a trade, but as an organization we have priorities and a plan. “We’re not looking for Band-Aids and we’re not looking to give up future assets. We’re trying to build something more sustainable than a rent-a-player.
Read more at: http://nesn.com/2017/02/danny-ainge-hints-at-celtics-trade-deadline-plan-not-seeking-rent-a-player/
It is pretty obvious we have bigger holes than a Band-Aid could fix, heck we might need a tourniquet. We are soft, lack a second scorer and don't rebound. I think Ainge has fell in love with his assets. Some of the assets have their warts. He is in it for the long game. Boston is a city of Champions and impatient to some degree in wanting a winner. Most cities would love to have the titles they have.
This team overachieved once again, and was fun to watch. But talent matters and the playoffs are a different game.
For those complaining about Ainge not doing a deal this season, this quote is key. He knows the team isn't good enough to compete for a championship and he also knows that any of the minor deals that were available to him wouldn't have gotten the team to that level either, but might have constricted his ability to do a deal this summer which could get them into contention.
Basically, he sees a short term fix as being harmful to the long term success.
You don't have to agree but if the C's wind up landing a big fish this summer with assets that otherwise might not have been available, everyone here will be pretty happy.
We hear this refrain before every deadline. Fireworks, you know. Remind me again what has happened.
You can only cry wolf so often before you lose your credibility, with everyone who hasn't drank the Kool-Aid and slipped on the Nikes.
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“I’m certainly aware of all of our competition around the East,” Ainge said. “It’s not from a lack of desire to want to do a trade, but as an organization we have priorities and a plan. “We’re not looking for Band-Aids and we’re not looking to give up future assets. We’re trying to build something more sustainable than a rent-a-player.
Read more at: http://nesn.com/2017/02/danny-ainge-hints-at-celtics-trade-deadline-plan-not-seeking-rent-a-player/
It is pretty obvious we have bigger holes than a Band-Aid could fix, heck we might need a tourniquet. We are soft, lack a second scorer and don't rebound. I think Ainge has fell in love with his assets. Some of the assets have their warts. He is in it for the long game. Boston is a city of Champions and impatient to some degree in wanting a winner. Most cities would love to have the titles they have.
This team overachieved once again, and was fun to watch. But talent matters and the playoffs are a different game.
For those complaining about Ainge not doing a deal this season, this quote is key. He knows the team isn't good enough to compete for a championship and he also knows that any of the minor deals that were available to him wouldn't have gotten the team to that level either, but might have constricted his ability to do a deal this summer which could get them into contention.
Basically, he sees a short term fix as being harmful to the long term success.
You don't have to agree but if the C's wind up landing a big fish this summer with assets that otherwise might not have been available, everyone here will be pretty happy.
We hear this refrain before every deadline. Fireworks, you know. Remind me again what has happened.
You can only cry wolf so often before you lose your credibility, with everyone who hasn't drank the Kool-Aid and slipped on the Nikes.
Lol
some fans here don't deserve Danny as GM....they deserve a Vivek or Kahn...
Goodness.
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“I’m certainly aware of all of our competition around the East,” Ainge said. “It’s not from a lack of desire to want to do a trade, but as an organization we have priorities and a plan. “We’re not looking for Band-Aids and we’re not looking to give up future assets. We’re trying to build something more sustainable than a rent-a-player.
Read more at: http://nesn.com/2017/02/danny-ainge-hints-at-celtics-trade-deadline-plan-not-seeking-rent-a-player/
It is pretty obvious we have bigger holes than a Band-Aid could fix, heck we might need a tourniquet. We are soft, lack a second scorer and don't rebound. I think Ainge has fell in love with his assets. Some of the assets have their warts. He is in it for the long game. Boston is a city of Champions and impatient to some degree in wanting a winner. Most cities would love to have the titles they have.
This team overachieved once again, and was fun to watch. But talent matters and the playoffs are a different game.
For those complaining about Ainge not doing a deal this season, this quote is key. He knows the team isn't good enough to compete for a championship and he also knows that any of the minor deals that were available to him wouldn't have gotten the team to that level either, but might have constricted his ability to do a deal this summer which could get them into contention.
Basically, he sees a short term fix as being harmful to the long term success.
You don't have to agree but if the C's wind up landing a big fish this summer with assets that otherwise might not have been available, everyone here will be pretty happy.
We hear this refrain before every deadline. Fireworks, you know. Remind me again what has happened.
You can only cry wolf so often before you lose your credibility, with everyone who hasn't drank the Kool-Aid and slipped on the Nikes.
Lol
some fans here don't deserve Danny as GM....they deserve a Vivek or Kahn...
Goodness.
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“I’m certainly aware of all of our competition around the East,” Ainge said. “It’s not from a lack of desire to want to do a trade, but as an organization we have priorities and a plan. “We’re not looking for Band-Aids and we’re not looking to give up future assets. We’re trying to build something more sustainable than a rent-a-player.
Read more at: http://nesn.com/2017/02/danny-ainge-hints-at-celtics-trade-deadline-plan-not-seeking-rent-a-player/
It is pretty obvious we have bigger holes than a Band-Aid could fix, heck we might need a tourniquet. We are soft, lack a second scorer and don't rebound. I think Ainge has fell in love with his assets. Some of the assets have their warts. He is in it for the long game. Boston is a city of Champions and impatient to some degree in wanting a winner. Most cities would love to have the titles they have.
This team overachieved once again, and was fun to watch. But talent matters and the playoffs are a different game.
For those complaining about Ainge not doing a deal this season, this quote is key. He knows the team isn't good enough to compete for a championship and he also knows that any of the minor deals that were available to him wouldn't have gotten the team to that level either, but might have constricted his ability to do a deal this summer which could get them into contention.
Basically, he sees a short term fix as being harmful to the long term success.
You don't have to agree but if the C's wind up landing a big fish this summer with assets that otherwise might not have been available, everyone here will be pretty happy.
We hear this refrain before every deadline. Fireworks, you know. Remind me again what has happened.
You can only cry wolf so often before you lose your credibility, with everyone who hasn't drank the Kool-Aid and slipped on the Nikes.
This is only true if you've been a Celtic fan for 18 months. During the preceding decade, Ainge has been one of the most, if not the most, active GM's in the NBA.
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“I’m certainly aware of all of our competition around the East,” Ainge said. “It’s not from a lack of desire to want to do a trade, but as an organization we have priorities and a plan. “We’re not looking for Band-Aids and we’re not looking to give up future assets. We’re trying to build something more sustainable than a rent-a-player.
Read more at: http://nesn.com/2017/02/danny-ainge-hints-at-celtics-trade-deadline-plan-not-seeking-rent-a-player/
It is pretty obvious we have bigger holes than a Band-Aid could fix, heck we might need a tourniquet. We are soft, lack a second scorer and don't rebound. I think Ainge has fell in love with his assets. Some of the assets have their warts. He is in it for the long game. Boston is a city of Champions and impatient to some degree in wanting a winner. Most cities would love to have the titles they have.
This team overachieved once again, and was fun to watch. But talent matters and the playoffs are a different game.
For those complaining about Ainge not doing a deal this season, this quote is key. He knows the team isn't good enough to compete for a championship and he also knows that any of the minor deals that were available to him wouldn't have gotten the team to that level either, but might have constricted his ability to do a deal this summer which could get them into contention.
Basically, he sees a short term fix as being harmful to the long term success.
You don't have to agree but if the C's wind up landing a big fish this summer with assets that otherwise might not have been available, everyone here will be pretty happy.
We hear this refrain before every deadline. Fireworks, you know. Remind me again what has happened.
You can only cry wolf so often before you lose your credibility, with everyone who hasn't drank the Kool-Aid and slipped on the Nikes.
So I readily admit I drink the coolaid. However, the last few years have conditioned me to not expect a fireworks trade.
At the deadline I was fine with the idea that not giving up any of the assets allows us the flexibility to make a big trade in the future. Now I feel that it wouldn't have hurt the long term process to use an ancillary asset to pick up a big.
The reason why I didn't think it mattered was that I believed we could make a run to the 2nd or third round without changes. Now that I feel like we might get swept, I am very worried that our elimination will make it unlikely we sign any big time free agents this summer.
The Clippers pick and Rozier to me are worth impressing Blake and Hayward enough to have a chance at them.
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Sum it up in three words..."Lack of Talent"
And why is there this "lack of talent " ;D
Because Stevens only wants high character guys who are easy to coach and bigs who can stretch the floor irrespective of rebounding abilities and rim protection...and Ainge allows it.
Ainge should've shoved Boogie down Stevens' throat. Time to put your big boy pants on, Brad.
Good reply ......I think you correct ......Danny can't protect him from the big mean sassy super stars , like em or not the ruff ones are required , nice guys finish last in the NBA .....TP
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I blame Ainge and Stevens, not the players. Ainge, in my view deserves the brunt of the blame for doing nothing at the trade deadline to improve rebounding and defense up front. Which he could have done without endangering his precious cap space this summer. There were people available who could be had for secondary draft picks and players.
Stevens may have to share some of this blame, too, since he apparently has an equal say with Wyc on player personal, and seems to abhor any big man who can't shoot the 3 and may take away from the offense (AJ comes to mind). The conflicting quotes of Danny "Our biggest need is a rim protector" and "Rebounding detracts from offense" are a sign of possible discord.
And further, what the players think about all this--which may have affected their morale coming into the playoffs. They perhaps know the team flaws better than anybody.
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It's funny how certain posters only appear after bad losses, and never after good wins.
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I don't blame Ainge too much. He stuck to his plan of long-term success. I'm glad he didn't waste assets on any potential short term fixes that, at best, would get us to 2nd round or ECF. He knows this team isn't a true contenders.
I think Steven's should take some blame but he's working within the confines of the Ainge plan. One critique I have of him is his rotations. Rolling 11 men deep in the playoffs isn't a smart idea imo.
The players get the most of the blame. First 2 games wasn't a talent issue, it was an effort and want issue. I get it that things got wierd with IT and his sister but that was as listless of a performance in game 2 as I ever saw. If the players didn't bring it to help IT out in the first 2 games, that's on them.
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Love it. It's about time some pressure was applied. It will help them.
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“I’m certainly aware of all of our competition around the East,” Ainge said. “It’s not from a lack of desire to want to do a trade, but as an organization we have priorities and a plan. “We’re not looking for Band-Aids and we’re not looking to give up future assets. We’re trying to build something more sustainable than a rent-a-player.
Read more at: http://nesn.com/2017/02/danny-ainge-hints-at-celtics-trade-deadline-plan-not-seeking-rent-a-player/
It is pretty obvious we have bigger holes than a Band-Aid could fix, heck we might need a tourniquet. We are soft, lack a second scorer and don't rebound. I think Ainge has fell in love with his assets. Some of the assets have their warts. He is in it for the long game. Boston is a city of Champions and impatient to some degree in wanting a winner. Most cities would love to have the titles they have.
This team overachieved once again, and was fun to watch. But talent matters and the playoffs are a different game.
For those complaining about Ainge not doing a deal this season, this quote is key. He knows the team isn't good enough to compete for a championship and he also knows that any of the minor deals that were available to him wouldn't have gotten the team to that level either, but might have constricted his ability to do a deal this summer which could get them into contention.
Basically, he sees a short term fix as being harmful to the long term success.
You don't have to agree but if the C's wind up landing a big fish this summer with assets that otherwise might not have been available, everyone here will be pretty happy.
We hear this refrain before every deadline. Fireworks, you know. Remind me again what has happened.
You can only cry wolf so often before you lose your credibility, with everyone who hasn't drank the Kool-Aid and slipped on the Nikes.
How long has it been since Ainge pulled off one of the greatest heists in trade history?
How long has it been since he traded for a guy two teams gave up on and had him become an MVP candidate?
After Durant, who made a bigger free agent signing than Al Horford?
If you really want to "hate watch" something, go try The Walking Dead and leave the Celtics alone.
Mike
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"Bigger" free agent signing? Or "better" free agent signing? If the question is "better" I'd be tempted to go with "everybody."