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Around the League => The Draft => Topic started by: beantownboy171 on April 14, 2017, 02:18:11 AM

Title: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: beantownboy171 on April 14, 2017, 02:18:11 AM
Jayson Tatum appears to be the worst case scenario on most bloggers big board. The top tier is Fultz, Ball and Jackson. Jayson Tatum has all the makings of a really good pro, but he isn't quite talked about in their company.

I was watching highlights and it struck me what role he could have if we took him. I think Tatum will be plenty capable of playing the 2 guard alongside Jaylen Brown. He shot around 40% from 3 for most of the season, but got into a 3-point shooting slump in the second half of the season that dragged his season average down to 34%. I think Tatum will be a much better 3-point shooter then his end of season average suggests.

Here's the comparison:   Khris Middleton

They have nearly identical frames.

Tatum
6'8.3"  Height (w/ shoes)
6'11" Wingspan

Middleton
6'8.3"  Height (w/ shoes)
6'10.8" Wingspan


I thought about the comparison while watching Tatum highlights, and sure enough their have almost identical measurements. Now Tatum's measurements were taken at last summers Hoop Summit and he will probably be a tad bigger then Middleton when he enters the league.

Tatum could give us size on the perimeter, but that's to his lean build should be able to keep up with opposing guards. Jaylen Brown also has the foot speed to keep up with guards on the defensive end.

Tatum was effective as a distributor and made some really nice passes on a consistent basis. I think his athleticism a bit underrated only because he's been compared to Josh Jackson all season, who is a freak of nature. Tatum is athletic, just not on the elite level of Jaylen Brown, Josh Jackson or Andrew Wiggins.

Tatum can score from 3, mid range and while driving to the hoop. Even while he struggle from 3 down the stretch for the blue devils, he still shot a very respectable percentage from the field and showed that he can find way to score night in, night out.

I know some are concerned he wouldn't be a great fit, compared to others at the top of the draft. But honestly I think any in the top 4 will fit into what we're doing. And upon closer inspection, Jayson Tatum could actually be a very good fit to this teams roster. We would add scoring off the bench, which has been a weakness. It would also give us size at the guard position, which will compliment players like Bradley, Thomas or Rozier in certain rotations. He could give us that unique long guard play that players like Khris Middleton and Klay Thompson have proved to be very valuable. It comforting to know that we aren't at risk of missing out on these top 4 guys, and Tatum could end up have a better career than any of the other 3.
Title: Re: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: beantownboy171 on April 14, 2017, 02:34:50 AM
I also just want to add. I'm not saying Khris Middleton is Tatum's ceiling. But I think Tatum could fit into a role like Middleton's with this team while he develops into the player he will become.

That could be his role for the bench unit which has struggled to fill the second guard position alongside Marcus Smart.
Title: Re: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: CelticsElite on April 14, 2017, 03:08:25 AM
Tatum has a lot of weapons, plays smart, and fits with the group great. I agree he would be a great compliment to jaylen and smart with his midrange shot and other scoring abilities. He has a good all around game
Title: Re: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: Somebody on April 14, 2017, 03:42:17 AM
Great stuff and TP to the OP. I like any of the top 4 and I think they'll all at least be in the league for a while as decent contributors, but my favourite is Fultz atm. He just has that kind of smoothness and versatility to his game that I think will translate very nicely to the nba
Title: Re: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: SHAQATTACK on April 14, 2017, 07:27:28 AM
He is a Stevens type guy , being of the right build and versatile player.   Team first type player .He seems to have a good demeanor about him .  Quiet , but plays hard team ball in the manor of AB or Horford . Seems very savvy too,  with passes .  I still want Fultz #1 if the NBA gods shine on us ,  his scoring is amazing for his age ...we need his scoring to help IT ....appears we are keeping iT ....  I like Jackson too.   Pass on Ball ...let him be a Laker where he belongs.   I'd take Tatum or Foxx third or fourth .
Title: Re: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: Celts Fan 508 on April 14, 2017, 07:41:55 AM
I think Tatum could play the 3/4 after watching him play 20+ times this season, I do not think he could handle the 2, he already has a solid NBA frame and can bang down low. 
Title: Re: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: chilidawg on April 14, 2017, 09:13:50 AM
I think Tatum could play the 3/4 after watching him play 20+ times this season, I do not think he could handle the 2, he already has a solid NBA frame and can bang down low.

No way he has the quickness to defend the 2.  I think he might struggle defensively at the 3 as well.  Like most of these guys, he has a long way to go.
Title: Re: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: KG Living Legend on April 14, 2017, 11:48:49 AM

 Middleton is not a good comp IMO.  Km is a much better defender.

 Tatum is more of a Melo, Pierce Hybrid on offense. Tatum has much more all around offensive upside than Middleton.
Title: Re: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: Evantime34 on April 14, 2017, 12:03:54 PM
Jayson Tatum appears to be the worst case scenario on most bloggers big board. The top tier is Fultz, Ball and Jackson. Jayson Tatum has all the makings of a really good pro, but he isn't quite talked about in their company.

I was watching highlights and it struck me what role he could have if we took him. I think Tatum will be plenty capable of playing the 2 guard alongside Jaylen Brown. He shot around 40% from 3 for most of the season, but got into a 3-point shooting slump in the second half of the season that dragged his season average down to 34%. I think Tatum will be a much better 3-point shooter then his end of season average suggests.

Here's the comparison:   Khris Middleton

They have nearly identical frames.

Tatum
6'8.3"  Height (w/ shoes)
6'11" Wingspan

Middleton
6'8.3"  Height (w/ shoes)
6'10.8" Wingspan


I thought about the comparison while watching Tatum highlights, and sure enough their have almost identical measurements. Now Tatum's measurements were taken at last summers Hoop Summit and he will probably be a tad bigger then Middleton when he enters the league.

Tatum could give us size on the perimeter, but that's to his lean build should be able to keep up with opposing guards. Jaylen Brown also has the foot speed to keep up with guards on the defensive end.

Tatum was effective as a distributor and made some really nice passes on a consistent basis. I think his athleticism a bit underrated only because he's been compared to Josh Jackson all season, who is a freak of nature. Tatum is athletic, just not on the elite level of Jaylen Brown, Josh Jackson or Andrew Wiggins.

Tatum can score from 3, mid range and while driving to the hoop. Even while he struggle from 3 down the stretch for the blue devils, he still shot a very respectable percentage from the field and showed that he can find way to score night in, night out.

I know some are concerned he wouldn't be a great fit, compared to others at the top of the draft. But honestly I think any in the top 4 will fit into what we're doing. And upon closer inspection, Jayson Tatum could actually be a very good fit to this teams roster. We would add scoring off the bench, which has been a weakness. It would also give us size at the guard position, which will compliment players like Bradley, Thomas or Rozier in certain rotations. He could give us that unique long guard play that players like Khris Middleton and Klay Thompson have proved to be very valuable. It comforting to know that we aren't at risk of missing out on these top 4 guys, and Tatum could end up have a better career than any of the other 3.
Once Tatum fills out I expect him to weigh a lot more than Middleton. Tatum is more of a 3/4 where I view Middleton as more of 2/3.

Middleton hangs his hat on defense and hitting open jumpers where Tatum is a great isolation scorer. I get that their frames are similar but I don't agree with their games being similar.

Shot creation is the most important skill in the NBA, and Tatum is much better at that imo.
Title: Re: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: Celts Fan 508 on April 14, 2017, 12:35:48 PM
I think Tatum could play the 3/4 after watching him play 20+ times this season, I do not think he could handle the 2, he already has a solid NBA frame and can bang down low.

No way he has the quickness to defend the 2.  I think he might struggle defensively at the 3 as well.  Like most of these guys, he has a long way to go.

That's what I was trying to say, TP.  Tatum is my guy though, he would give us a legit second scoring option.  The guy has the versatility to score in so many ways. 
Title: Re: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: vjcsmoke on April 15, 2017, 02:39:25 AM
If you end up with a top 4 pick, you don't use it to add scoring off the bench, you look for a star player who can provide mismatches.

Not saying Tatum won't be a good player but what does he do that stands out and says, I could be an elite NBA player someday?

Title: Re: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: DrJasper on April 15, 2017, 04:52:43 AM
If you end up with a top 4 pick, you don't use it to add scoring off the bench, you look for a star player who can provide mismatches.

Not saying Tatum won't be a good player but what does he do that stands out and says, I could be an elite NBA player someday?

Score?
Title: Re: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: Granath on April 15, 2017, 09:13:10 AM
If you end up with a top 4 pick, you don't use it to add scoring off the bench, you look for a star player who can provide mismatches.

Not saying Tatum won't be a good player but what does he do that stands out and says, I could be an elite NBA player someday?

1.303 points per possession. If that's not elite, I'm not sure what is.

His best pro comp - at maximum upside - may very well be Paul Pierce. Pierce was a 20/7 player in college from a big school who got to the FT line 6 times a game, shot 34% from 3 and 56% from 2 his Junior year. Tatum is a 20/8 player from a big school who got to the FT line 6 times a game, shot 34% from 3 and 50% from 2. Both are similar size, similar frames and had similar athleticism. It's hard to look at Tatum and not see some of Pierce's game.
Title: Re: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: ManUp on April 15, 2017, 10:40:40 AM
I want Fultz at 1, but I'm fine with either Tatum or Ball at 2-4.

I think Tatum's three point range will come and that he's a perfect system player. Some one who can thrive in a well structured offense. The one thing with Tatum is that I worrry his defense will keep him off the floor. He seems to lack the foot speed to defend the wing and lacks the physicality to defend in the post. I believe you have to be able to defend well to really have success as a tweener in the NBA.
Title: Re: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: Celts Fan 508 on April 15, 2017, 11:43:23 AM
If you end up with a top 4 pick, you don't use it to add scoring off the bench, you look for a star player who can provide mismatches.

Not saying Tatum won't be a good player but what does he do that stands out and says, I could be an elite NBA player someday?

1.303 points per possession. If that's not elite, I'm not sure what is.

His best pro comp - at maximum upside - may very well be Paul Pierce. Pierce was a 20/7 player in college from a big school who got to the FT line 6 times a game, shot 34% from 3 and 56% from 2 his Junior year. Tatum is a 20/8 player from a big school who got to the FT line 6 times a game, shot 34% from 3 and 50% from 2. Both are similar size, similar frames and had similar athleticism. It's hard to look at Tatum and not see some of Pierce's game.

Pierce was a junior though, Tatum is a freshman.  The reports about Tatum's work ethic have me convinced he is the best fit for us. 

I like the Pierce comp in terms of scoring versatility.

I truly believe that Tatum is a can't miss prospect and I would take him at number one.
Title: Re: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: footey on April 15, 2017, 12:14:25 PM
I'm more partial to Jackson because his floor is so good already.  But I can see a case for taking Tatum, as he is a year younger, and a little longer wing span.  Certainly if he is available at 4 you grab him.
Title: Re: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: Somebody on April 15, 2017, 12:22:53 PM
If you end up with a top 4 pick, you don't use it to add scoring off the bench, you look for a star player who can provide mismatches.

Not saying Tatum won't be a good player but what does he do that stands out and says, I could be an elite NBA player someday?

1.303 points per possession. If that's not elite, I'm not sure what is.

His best pro comp - at maximum upside - may very well be Paul Pierce. Pierce was a 20/7 player in college from a big school who got to the FT line 6 times a game, shot 34% from 3 and 56% from 2 his Junior year. Tatum is a 20/8 player from a big school who got to the FT line 6 times a game, shot 34% from 3 and 50% from 2. Both are similar size, similar frames and had similar athleticism. It's hard to look at Tatum and not see some of Pierce's game.

Pierce was a junior though, Tatum is a freshman.  The reports about Tatum's work ethic have me convinced he is the best fit for us. 

I like the Pierce comp in terms of scoring versatility.

I truly believe that Tatum is a can't miss prospect and I would take him at number one.
Whoa Fultz is staring at you man
Title: Re: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: clevelandceltic on April 15, 2017, 01:15:58 PM
If you end up with a top 4 pick, you don't use it to add scoring off the bench, you look for a star player who can provide mismatches.

Not saying Tatum won't be a good player but what does he do that stands out and says, I could be an elite NBA player someday?

1.303 points per possession. If that's not elite, I'm not sure what is.

His best pro comp - at maximum upside - may very well be Paul Pierce. Pierce was a 20/7 player in college from a big school who got to the FT line 6 times a game, shot 34% from 3 and 56% from 2 his Junior year. Tatum is a 20/8 player from a big school who got to the FT line 6 times a game, shot 34% from 3 and 50% from 2. Both are similar size, similar frames and had similar athleticism. It's hard to look at Tatum and not see some of Pierce's game.

Pierce was a junior though, Tatum is a freshman.  The reports about Tatum's work ethic have me convinced he is the best fit for us. 

I like the Pierce comp in terms of scoring versatility.

I truly believe that Tatum is a can't miss prospect and I would take him at number one.

This is what I know. He has been working with a skills trainer for the last 6 years. He has done skill work with that coach during the season. I know that he has worked against nba players during the summer. My guess is he has worked against Beal and Wiggins as they have the same trainer.

What I hear is he is working out twoadays.
Title: Re: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: clevelandceltic on April 15, 2017, 01:17:00 PM
I'm more partial to Jackson because his floor is so good already.  But I can see a case for taking Tatum, as he is a year younger, and a little longer wing span.  Certainly if he is available at 4 you grab him.

I can see taking Tatum at 2. I dont have Ball infront of him. I dont see why Ball would be put infront of him especially on this team.
Title: Re: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: drogbagarnett on April 15, 2017, 02:30:40 PM
I'm more partial to Jackson because his floor is so good already.  But I can see a case for taking Tatum, as he is a year younger, and a little longer wing span.  Certainly if he is available at 4 you grab him.

I can see taking Tatum at 2. I dont have Ball infront of him. I dont see why Ball would be put infront of him especially on this team.

To be frank, I am currently leaning Tatum at 2 as well!! His defense scares me a little bit but if he can focus on it and show improvement in the workouts and embrace our bulldog mentality of aggressive perimeter defense, then he is my clear #2 (even maybe #1)

I definitely dont want everything to do with Ball!!! I would take Markkanen before Ball!! My ideal top 4 is :
1 Flutz
2 Tatum
3 Jackson
4 Markkanen
Title: Re: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: playdream on April 15, 2017, 03:40:47 PM
Tatum appears to me as a faceup/postmove specialist, but PP is a freethrow machine and killer shooter.
and i think the later is somewhat better than the former..
Title: Re: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: Celtics4ever on April 15, 2017, 05:07:55 PM
Quote
To be frank, I am currently leaning Tatum at 2 as well!! His defense scares me a little bit but if he can focus on it and show improvement in the workouts and embrace our bulldog mentality of aggressive perimeter defense, then he is my clear #2 (even maybe #1)

Most mocks and scouts are not in agreement.

Title: Re: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: beantownboy171 on April 15, 2017, 05:19:05 PM
I think Jayson Tatum has a very high floor and a ceiling of a multiple all-star (though not a superstar).

I haven't gotten much agreement on here. But I do think Tatum will be the best going back and forth from a 2 to a 3. He could guard a 4 at times also, but i'd prefer not to. I think his defense will be very good at the 2, adequate to good at the 3 and poor to adequate at the 4.

I think he has the foot speed to guard quick players and will have strength/size to over power them.. He also has a very wide stride that makes him deceptively quick driving to the hoop and creating space  on the offensive end.

Since I project him as a guard and will compare him to guards in my comparisons which I believe are:

Floor: Khris Middleton with just slightly worse defense.
Ceiling: Klay Thompson

Klay Thompson may not be a superstar, but can take over games for stretches like a superstar. That's the kind of play I think Tatum is. I've watching him in interviews, he's a very intelligent player and thought of as a hard worker. Which is evident in his consistency all year for Duke. I felt like any time a read the box score he had 16-20 points, and that was even when his 3-point shot wasn't falling.
Title: Re: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: CelticsElite on May 27, 2017, 02:59:27 AM
Danny said he likes shot creators  and that's what Tatum is.
Title: Re: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: gouki88 on May 27, 2017, 04:54:14 AM
Danny said he likes shot creators  and that's what Tatum is.
Yeah just a worse one than Fultz
Title: Re: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: Tr1boy on May 27, 2017, 11:47:55 AM
Danny said he likes shot creators  and that's what Tatum is.
Yeah just a worse one than Fultz

Tatum step backs are better. 

But Fultz slashing to the basket is better.  Spins, herky jerky
Title: Re: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: gouki88 on May 27, 2017, 12:16:09 PM
Danny said he likes shot creators  and that's what Tatum is.
Yeah just a worse one than Fultz

Tatum step backs are better. 

But Fultz slashing to the basket is better.  Spins, herky jerky
Yeah, plus Fultz is elite in the pick & roll, both scoring and finding passing options. Perfect for what we run.
Title: Re: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: Ilikesports17 on May 27, 2017, 05:05:23 PM
If you end up with a top 4 pick, you don't use it to add scoring off the bench, you look for a star player who can provide mismatches.

Not saying Tatum won't be a good player but what does he do that stands out and says, I could be an elite NBA player someday?
Tatum is a 20/8 player from a big school who got to the FT line 6 times a game.
Tatum didn't actually put up any of those numbers.

He put up 17/7 with 5 fts a game.

Edit: I'm assuming those are per 40 numbers?
Title: Re: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: Future Celtics Owner on May 27, 2017, 05:44:01 PM
Danny said he likes shot creators  and that's what Tatum is.
Yeah just a worse one than Fultz

Tatum step backs are better. 

But Fultz slashing to the basket is better.  Spins, herky jerky
Yeah, plus Fultz is elite in the pick & roll, both scoring and finding passing options. Perfect for what we run.
idk Filtz has some pretty nice step backs.
Title: Re: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: Future Celtics Owner on May 27, 2017, 05:45:57 PM
I'm more partial to Jackson because his floor is so good already.  But I can see a case for taking Tatum, as he is a year younger, and a little longer wing span.  Certainly if he is available at 4 you grab him.
Jackson has the higher ceiling but idk about higher floor.
Title: Re: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: Kaz on May 27, 2017, 06:01:17 PM
I think Tatum has the highest floor of the top 4, but also the lowest ceiling of them too.  I think he is almost a lock to be at least a Rudy Gay caliber player, with much room and potential to become a more efficient scorer and better player than him. 

If Fultz wasn't in this draft I'd understand taking him.
Title: Re: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: Tr1boy on May 29, 2017, 07:24:06 PM
Named to the All-ACC Tournament first team after leading the team with averages of 22.0 points, 7.5 rebounds and 1.5 steals as Duke became the first team to win four games in as many days to claim the championship

Only a 4 game tourney...but impressive
Title: Re: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: PhoSita on May 29, 2017, 07:44:32 PM
Rudy Gay, Derrick Williams, Michael Beasley, Melo ... these comps don't inspire a lot of confidence.

I'd prefer Fultz, Ball, Jackson, and possibly Monk.
Title: Re: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: CelticsElite on May 29, 2017, 07:53:50 PM
Rudy gay and Melo are good
Title: Re: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: Tr1boy on May 29, 2017, 08:40:35 PM
Rudy Gay, Derrick Williams, Michael Beasley, Melo ... these comps don't inspire a lot of confidence.

I'd prefer Fultz, Ball, Jackson, and possibly Monk.

Not quite...but Danny Granger is a good comparison. Both are 6'9 , good scorers

his ACC performance does not impress you?
Title: Re: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: PhoSita on May 29, 2017, 09:37:44 PM
Rudy Gay, Derrick Williams, Michael Beasley, Melo ... these comps don't inspire a lot of confidence.

I'd prefer Fultz, Ball, Jackson, and possibly Monk.

Not quite...but Danny Granger is a good comparison. Both are 6'9 , good scorers

his ACC performance does not impress you?

It's not that it isn't impressive, it's that I worry he won't have a defensive position at the NBA level.
Title: Re: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: CelticsElite on May 29, 2017, 09:46:37 PM
Rudy Gay, Derrick Williams, Michael Beasley, Melo ... these comps don't inspire a lot of confidence.

I'd prefer Fultz, Ball, Jackson, and possibly Monk.

Not quite...but Danny Granger is a good comparison. Both are 6'9 , good scorers

his ACC performance does not impress you?

It's not that it isn't impressive, it's that I worry he won't have a defensive position at the NBA level.
fultz has some defensive worries. Jackson doesn't have a jump shot. Ball is average  at scoring and has defensive questions.  Every player has weaknesses
Title: Re: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: chilidawg on May 30, 2017, 01:01:19 AM
It's nitpick season.
Title: Re: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: chilidawg on May 30, 2017, 01:01:45 AM
It's nitpick season.
Title: Re: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: Beat LA on May 30, 2017, 01:08:28 AM
Rudy Gay, Derrick Williams, Michael Beasley, Melo ... these comps don't inspire a lot of confidence.

I'd prefer Fultz, Ball, Jackson, and possibly Monk.

Not quite...but Danny Granger is a good comparison. Both are 6'9 , good scorers

his ACC performance does not impress you?

I think that everyone is forgetting how great of an athlete Granger was without even taking his defense into account, which was also excellent.  Tatum isn't even close to that level, imo, not to mention Rudy Gay, who at least entered the league as a very good defensive player, iirc.

Not Channing looks like the classic Duke tweener, to me, like Jabari Parker, who also can't guard anyone.  I've also seen Tatum be compared to Tobias Harris, although I feel like Harris is much quicker and a better defender, but that's just off of the top of my head :-\.
Title: Re: Jayson Tatum Comparison: Why he could be a really good fit
Post by: Tr1boy on May 30, 2017, 09:26:54 AM

Tatum defense analysis
https://youtu.be/E4d-ICTOqBo