CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: 86MaxwellSmart on March 21, 2017, 12:47:36 AM
-
What was the point spread-?
Some pretty shady stuff going on tonight by this crew---something seemed fishy and outright crooked. Or are they actually this incompetent at their jobs-?
They seemed intent on keeping Washington in this game--even though the Wiz didn't seem to care all that much.
-
Taken together, the league made a record high $5.2 billion in revenue last year. Pretty decent odds that your question is valid.
-
Taken together, the league made a record high $5.2 billion in revenue last year. Pretty decent odds that your question is valid.
Maybe this is what Trump meant when he said he was going to drain the swamp in Washington. He was talking about the dam Wizards!
-
Call your mother, Nicky!
-
The point spread was BOS -3.5 to -4 at tipoff. Refs didn't quite swing it back the other direction. Over/under was between 216.5-217.5, so never got there either.
So if they were point-shaving, they failed. (Still possible, of course, because I wouldn't expect tonight's refs to be any more competent at point-shaving than I would expect them to be competent at officiating.)
I will say I thought there were a ton of bad calls in both directions. A lot of play-through contact, and a lot of touch fouls where players might have barely grazed each other. I will never know why Oubre got to obviously foul IT twice on that steal at the end, not to mention get away with a kicked ball. Good job on IT and Smart to not get ejected in the last two minutes for arguing with the refs.
-
I was thinking the same thing and I'm very anti conspiracy theory/looney tune kinda guy.
Although it's unlikely, nights like tonight make you wonder Edited. Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. some of these refs are on.
-
I don't think there was any point shaving. I just think the refs sucked - especially the one Nick. No clue at what he was watching. I wonder if he lives in the DC area.
-
The refs may have been trying to second guess each other as to how to call the fouls. In other words one ref was not calling a tight game. So, the other(s) tried to follow suit. Then, they switched back and forth not knowing what to call. My guess is they were trying to match each other rather than make the right calls. In the end they all looked terrible.
-
Not sure about point shaving, but they did an awful job. Especially couldn't understand the T for hanging on the net. I could see basket interference, I guess as he did hit the net, but the T was weird.
My biggest problem with them is that they couldn't just make a call. I mean, do they have to go to replay for 10 minutes. Kills the momentum of the game. Make a decision and move on.
-
I thought I was watching the UNC vs. ARK refs for a second.
-
They called a fair game in the first half of the game. They didn't start becoming incompetent until the 3rd quarter.
-
Interesting how far the refs will go not to overturn a blown call. One of the Wizards players slapped at the ball knocking it out of Amir's(?) hand. The ball follows out of bounds. it was an obvious bad call. So, what does the ref who had a better angle at the ball do? Turns his head and runs up court.... not having any courage to do the right thing. Pretty pathetic in my opinion.
-
They called a fair game in the first half of the game. They didn't start becoming incompetent until the 3rd quarter.
That's the weird part. Usually awful crews are awful the whole time (like the Rockets game), but these ones just got worse as time went on. Lends a bit of credibility (just a little, mind you) to the idea that the refs were trying to keep Washington in the game.
I think they were just that incompetent, though
-
To be fair, Boston committed less fouls and shot more foul shots.
-
I didn't the call against Marcus that all the sudden changed in favor for him. he was already waking upset to the bench.
Also the call against Amir touching the net after a block was strange.
-
Washington flopping .
The refs seemed to be punking Marcus and Kelly .
It got kinda out of hand .
The NBA really needs better training program. Too many bad refs .
-
They called a fair game in the first half of the game. They didn't start becoming incompetent until the 3rd quarter.
That's the weird part. Usually awful crews are awful the whole time (like the Rockets game), but these ones just got worse as time went on. Lends a bit of credibility (just a little, mind you) to the idea that the refs were trying to keep Washington in the game.
I think they were just that incompetent, though
This is true, it wasn't until the 3rd or 4th that things went haywire. But as someone who goes to all the games, I'm astonished how little respect the Celtics get from the refs. We get calls like an away team at home it seems like more than half the time. At least that's what jumbotron replays suggest.
-
Washington flopping .
The refs seemed to be punking Marcus and Kelly .
It got kinda out of hand .
The NBA really needs better training program. Too many bad refs .
It really killed my enjoyment of the potential blowout.
-
They need to take a ref off the court. Too many opinions being thrown into the game as to what is a foul.
-
I didn't the call against Marcus that all the sudden changed in favor for him. he was already waking upset to the bench.
Also the call against Amir touching the net after a block was strange.
they called that "hanging on the rim". They credited the basket PLUS a technical foul. That was really outrageous. And then they call nothing at the end of the game where Oubre fouled IT twice and he went to the floor and no call. Really?
-
Don't want to make a another thread on it. But, does anyone know the ruling as to why there wasn't a goaltending call the other night when, I believe it was Bradley, went up for a shot and a player literally grabbed the net and hung on.
-
I didn't the call against Marcus that all the sudden changed in favor for him. he was already waking upset to the bench.
Also the call against Amir touching the net after a block was strange.
they called that "hanging on the rim". They credited the basket PLUS a technical foul. That was really outrageous. And then they call nothing at the end of the game where Oubre fouled IT twice and he went to the floor and no call. Really?
Strange was an understatement. Amir's left hand touched the net long after he blocked the shot with the right hand, it was obvious that it had no effect on the shot as it was already blocked and on the way down. They not only got it totally wrong after reviewing it, but somehow also tacked on a technical for hanging on the rim, when he never even touched the rim or hung on anything!
I think it's just that this crew was not well versed in the subtleties of manufacturing a comeback for the opposing team. They need more remedial NBA ref training
-
They called a fair game in the first half of the game. They didn't start becoming incompetent until the 3rd quarter.
That's the weird part. Usually awful crews are awful the whole time (like the Rockets game), but these ones just got worse as time went on. Lends a bit of credibility (just a little, mind you) to the idea that the refs were trying to keep Washington in the game.
I think they were just that incompetent, though
This is true, it wasn't until the 3rd or 4th that things went haywire. But as someone who goes to all the games, I'm astonished how little respect the Celtics get from the refs. We get calls like an away team at home it seems like more than half the time. At least that's what jumbotron replays suggest.
We had one Smart charging call go our way. It was so bad even Tommy said it should have been a no call. Smart does well with those 90% of the time.
-
I've been watching NBA basketball since I was a young kid...I've never seen worse referring in all that time.
Too many NBA Refs are absolutely and totally incompetent.
-
The same type of refs who robbed the Celtics in the 2010 Finals, particularly Game 7.
-
Washington flopping .
The refs seemed to be punking Marcus and Kelly .
It got kinda out of hand .
The NBA really needs better training program. Too many bad refs .
It really killed my enjoyment of the potential blowout.
Me thinks that was the refs idea too......keep the game from being a Boston blowout of the Wizards , for me it was still a dominating game by the Celtics . IT and company took care of business , even with the refs doing there dangest to keep the game tight.
-
I didn't the call against Marcus that all the sudden changed in favor for him. he was already waking upset to the bench.
Also the call against Amir touching the net after a block was strange.
they called that "hanging on the rim". They credited the basket PLUS a technical foul. That was really outrageous. And then they call nothing at the end of the game where Oubre fouled IT twice and he went to the floor and no call. Really?
Strange was an understatement. Amir's left hand touched the net long after he blocked the shot with the right hand, it was obvious that it had no effect on the shot as it was already blocked and on the way down. They not only got it totally wrong after reviewing it, but somehow also tacked on a technical for hanging on the rim, when he never even touched the rim or hung on anything!
I think it's just that this crew was not well versed in the subtleties of manufacturing a comeback for the opposing team. They need more remedial NBA ref training
Just posted this in the game thread too, but I actually think it was the correct call.
Here's the play in question: https://streamable.com/v4kpg
And here's a very similar scenario from the NBA video rulebook explaining it.
http://videorulebook.nba.com/archive/goaltending-also-technical-foul-defensive-player-grabs-net-to-block-shot/
-
I didn't the call against Marcus that all the sudden changed in favor for him. he was already waking upset to the bench.
Also the call against Amir touching the net after a block was strange.
they called that "hanging on the rim". They credited the basket PLUS a technical foul. That was really outrageous. And then they call nothing at the end of the game where Oubre fouled IT twice and he went to the floor and no call. Really?
Strange was an understatement. Amir's left hand touched the net long after he blocked the shot with the right hand, it was obvious that it had no effect on the shot as it was already blocked and on the way down. They not only got it totally wrong after reviewing it, but somehow also tacked on a technical for hanging on the rim, when he never even touched the rim or hung on anything!
I think it's just that this crew was not well versed in the subtleties of manufacturing a comeback for the opposing team. They need more remedial NBA ref training
You would think, the Nba would want a better officiating crew on their 2nd biggest game of the night.
-
I didn't the call against Marcus that all the sudden changed in favor for him. he was already waking upset to the bench.
Also the call against Amir touching the net after a block was strange.
they called that "hanging on the rim". They credited the basket PLUS a technical foul. That was really outrageous. And then they call nothing at the end of the game where Oubre fouled IT twice and he went to the floor and no call. Really?
Strange was an understatement. Amir's left hand touched the net long after he blocked the shot with the right hand, it was obvious that it had no effect on the shot as it was already blocked and on the way down. They not only got it totally wrong after reviewing it, but somehow also tacked on a technical for hanging on the rim, when he never even touched the rim or hung on anything!
I think it's just that this crew was not well versed in the subtleties of manufacturing a comeback for the opposing team. They need more remedial NBA ref training
Just posted this in the game thread too, but I actually think it was the correct call.
Here's the play in question: https://streamable.com/v4kpg
And here's a very similar scenario from the NBA video rulebook explaining it.
http://videorulebook.nba.com/archive/goaltending-also-technical-foul-defensive-player-grabs-net-to-block-shot/
I see what you are saying here but the net/rim touch was after the block. It didn't help with the block because it already occurred. Another thing is they NEVER call basket interference when a player touches the net even when it may affect the shot. It is one of those things that are just overlooked unless it is blatant. That being said, this particular crew thought it should be a basket and a technical in order to try to keep Washington in the game. It's clear what the objective was on their part.
-
Yup. Modern NBA refs are just terrible. And it really hurts the game. Why can't they put some money into decent training? On the other hand, two of the things missing from the modern ref brain are 1. Common sense, and 2. Courage. Maybe those things can't be solved but are just a product of the modern era in some way.
As for specifics, the need to re-learn the following:
1. The no-call is a valid option when not being able to decipher who initiated contact
2. Out of control offensive players need not be bailed out. The entire stadium knows they're out of control...you should know it too, ref.
3. Stop being so obsessed about preventing a fight from breaking out. Fights are not good, but it's not worth destroying the integrity of the game by ruining the flow because you might pee your pants.
-
The refs called 28 fouls on Washington and 24 on the Celtics.
I thought they ignored a lot of hard fouls on both sides.
-
I didn't the call against Marcus that all the sudden changed in favor for him. he was already waking upset to the bench.
Also the call against Amir touching the net after a block was strange.
they called that "hanging on the rim". They credited the basket PLUS a technical foul. That was really outrageous. And then they call nothing at the end of the game where Oubre fouled IT twice and he went to the floor and no call. Really?
Strange was an understatement. Amir's left hand touched the net long after he blocked the shot with the right hand, it was obvious that it had no effect on the shot as it was already blocked and on the way down. They not only got it totally wrong after reviewing it, but somehow also tacked on a technical for hanging on the rim, when he never even touched the rim or hung on anything!
I think it's just that this crew was not well versed in the subtleties of manufacturing a comeback for the opposing team. They need more remedial NBA ref training
Just posted this in the game thread too, but I actually think it was the correct call.
Here's the play in question: https://streamable.com/v4kpg
And here's a very similar scenario from the NBA video rulebook explaining it.
http://videorulebook.nba.com/archive/goaltending-also-technical-foul-defensive-player-grabs-net-to-block-shot/
I see what you are saying here but the net/rim touch was after the block. It didn't help with the block because it already occurred. Another thing is they NEVER call basket interference when a player touches the net even when it may affect the shot. It is one of those things that are just overlooked unless it is blatant. That being said, this particular crew thought it should be a basket and a technical in order to try to keep Washington in the game. It's clear what the objective was on their part.
The Refs absolutely just Gave Washington 3 points on that horrible call---when they should have had ZERO points on it....the outside ref imagined that Amir blocked the shot after it hit the backboard (which it didn't)--and to make it even worse, called a Tech on him too....awful.
-
The refs probably play the over/under quite a bit. It doesn't favor one team per se, but it does make for some bizarre, choppy performances.
-
Overall it was one of the more ridiculous games I've watched in terms of officiating. They let major, obvious calls go by to only whistle borderline calls seconds later all throughout the game, for both sides. I honestly had no clue by the fourth quarter what a foul was.
-
It's a fair question that I asked myself during the game. :-\
-
Seems like there's two competing camps here - a) The refs were point-shaving, implying the game or sport is fixed to some extent, or b) NBA refs sucked last night and/or in general.
I haven't seen the two camps address one another yet, though. That could be fun. I go with the conspiracy theory (a). I think too much money is exchanging hands for their not to be some degree of corruption.
The Lakers vs. Kings in 2006, too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjRcTiwVEwo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjRcTiwVEwo)
Will wait on saltlover's opinion (i.e., absolute truth) here...
-
Seems like there's two competing camps here - a) The refs were point-shaving, implying the game or sport is fixed to some extent, or b) NBA refs sucked last night and/or in general.
I haven't seen the two camps address one another yet, though. That could be fun. I go with the conspiracy theory (a). I think too much money is exchanging hands for their not to be some degree of corruption.
The Lakers vs. Kings in 2006, too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjRcTiwVEwo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjRcTiwVEwo)
Still waiting on saltlover's opinion (i.e., absolute truth) here...
You missed me on the first page where I split the baby and say that they could have been point-shaving, but because they're incompetent refs, they failed to move the game to the other side of the betting line.
The point spread was BOS -3.5 to -4 at tipoff. Refs didn't quite swing it back the other direction. Over/under was between 216.5-217.5, so never got there either.
So if they were point-shaving, they failed. (Still possible, of course, because I wouldn't expect tonight's refs to be any more competent at point-shaving than I would expect them to be competent at officiating.)
I will say I thought there were a ton of bad calls in both directions. A lot of play-through contact, and a lot of touch fouls where players might have barely grazed each other. I will never know why Oubre got to obviously foul IT twice on that steal at the end, not to mention get away with a kicked ball. Good job on IT and Smart to not get ejected in the last two minutes for arguing with the refs.
-
Seems like there's two competing camps here - a) The refs were point-shaving, implying the game or sport is fixed to some extent, or b) NBA refs sucked last night and/or in general.
I haven't seen the two camps address one another yet, though. That could be fun. I go with the conspiracy theory (a). I think too much money is exchanging hands for their not to be some degree of corruption.
The Lakers vs. Kings in 2006, too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjRcTiwVEwo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjRcTiwVEwo)
Still waiting on saltlover's opinion (i.e., absolute truth) here...
You missed me on the first page where I split the baby and say that they could have been point-shaving, but because they're incompetent refs, they failed to move the game to the other side of the betting line.
The point spread was BOS -3.5 to -4 at tipoff. Refs didn't quite swing it back the other direction. Over/under was between 216.5-217.5, so never got there either.
So if they were point-shaving, they failed. (Still possible, of course, because I wouldn't expect tonight's refs to be any more competent at point-shaving than I would expect them to be competent at officiating.)
I will say I thought there were a ton of bad calls in both directions. A lot of play-through contact, and a lot of touch fouls where players might have barely grazed each other. I will never know why Oubre got to obviously foul IT twice on that steal at the end, not to mention get away with a kicked ball. Good job on IT and Smart to not get ejected in the last two minutes for arguing with the refs.
Yep, I just caught that. Great thoughts, as always. Too politically savvy, though -- if the fate of the free world depended on your providing a final answer, would you choose (a) or (b)?
-
Seems like there's two competing camps here - a) The refs were point-shaving, implying the game or sport is fixed to some extent, or b) NBA refs sucked last night and/or in general.
I haven't seen the two camps address one another yet, though. That could be fun. I go with the conspiracy theory (a). I think too much money is exchanging hands for their not to be some degree of corruption.
The Lakers vs. Kings in 2006, too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjRcTiwVEwo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjRcTiwVEwo)
Still waiting on saltlover's opinion (i.e., absolute truth) here...
You missed me on the first page where I split the baby and say that they could have been point-shaving, but because they're incompetent refs, they failed to move the game to the other side of the betting line.
The point spread was BOS -3.5 to -4 at tipoff. Refs didn't quite swing it back the other direction. Over/under was between 216.5-217.5, so never got there either.
So if they were point-shaving, they failed. (Still possible, of course, because I wouldn't expect tonight's refs to be any more competent at point-shaving than I would expect them to be competent at officiating.)
I will say I thought there were a ton of bad calls in both directions. A lot of play-through contact, and a lot of touch fouls where players might have barely grazed each other. I will never know why Oubre got to obviously foul IT twice on that steal at the end, not to mention get away with a kicked ball. Good job on IT and Smart to not get ejected in the last two minutes for arguing with the refs.
Yep, I just caught that. Great thoughts, as always. Too politically savvy, though -- if the fate of the free world depended on your providing a final answer, would you choose (a) or (b)?
In general I think people are more likely to be incompetent than corrupt. Having seen firsthand incompetence masking as corruption, I'll choose b.
EDIT: Essentially I feel that the NBA warned the refs to not let it get out of control, since there's been some bad blood brewing. In the first half, there was a lot of hard contact and some techs called. At halftime, the refs decided to call it tighter to prevent it from getting out of hand, and took it very far in the other direction. Then they switched to "play on" rules in the last few minutes of the game. So micromanaging from the league and ineffective execution of that micromanaging by the guys on the ground.
-
What was the point spread-?
Some pretty shady stuff going on tonight by this crew---something seemed fishy and outright crooked. Or are they actually this incompetent at their jobs-?
They seemed intent on keeping Washington in this game--even though the Wiz didn't seem to care all that much.
The answer to this is a resounding YES.
We need 4 refs for each game, two 2-man crews with one "veteran." We need to eliminate the video reviews for everything except within 2-minute 4th quarter plays.
-
The weirdest call for me was Marcus Smart getting called for his 4th foul, and then 30 seconds later, reverse it and award him 2 FTs.
-
I'm far from wearing a tinfoil hat but the second half of the 3rd on had me thinking samething. I was worried for Tommy because you knew he was thinking samething.
-
I doubt they were shaving points but they were worried about the game getting out of hand. But, without a doubt, the officiating was ridiculous. These refs get paid for this crap? One of the worst ref'd games ever.