CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: PhoSita on March 19, 2017, 04:29:37 PM
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What do ya say, Mike, Tony?
I'll take my answer off the air.
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Give me Fultz
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I would say critical, not just important.
Also bringing up Fultz is pointless. Our ods of getting him are so low that the idea is barely worth mentioning.
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They lost Turner and it's showing. Not saying I'd pay him that ridiculous contract but they never really replaced him and Rozier hasn't really performed consistently either.
Turner had that ability and that's why he was like the second/third best scorer on the team in the Hawks playoff series, with Bradley out and IT being triple teamed.
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I would say critical, not just important.
Also bringing up Fultz is pointless. Our ods of getting him are so low that the idea is barely worth mentioning.
really? lol
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What do ya say, Mike, Tony?
I'll take my answer off the air.
The reality is, this is on Danny for not obtaining another shot creator to come off the bench
Gerald Green is not that guy
Rozier more and more is not looking as that guy either
Celtics should have brought in a guy like Waiters when they had the chance (buy low)
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They lost Turner and it's showing. Not saying I'd pay him that ridiculous contract but they never really replaced him and Rozier hasn't really performed consistently either.
Turner had that ability and that's why he was like the second/third best scorer on the team in the Hawks playoff series, with Bradley out and IT being triple teamed.
He really was a nice fit. Can't fault for taking the big bucks, but he had become a nice piece with this nucleus.
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I can't tell you how glad I am we didn't overpay Turner to stick around.
Personally I look at this more as a flaw in the argument of those who suggest we could get by with Smart and Bradley as our starting guards. That will never work unless we have a LeBron or Giannis type guy at forward.
You need an elite creator and scorer at the point of attack in today's league.
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we were up by 13 points. Bradley and Smart had awful, awful games on the offensive end. Jaylen was non existent. Amir was non existent.
It was basically Jae and Horford. Philly got hot and we hit 6 from 29 three point shots which is 20%.
This was simply a stinker of a game for us on the offensive end and the 76ers shot 48% from the field.
Trap game and we got trapped. Don't over react too much.
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This team needs another proven guy who can consistently score at a high level more than any other skill set whether or not we get Fultz.
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He is essentially all of our offense. Not only is he the best shot creator on our team, and perhaps in the NBA, but also his passing skills are highly underrated. Yeah, he only averages 6 assists per game, but I feel that he does way more than those 6 assists tell you.
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I would say critical, not just important.
Also bringing up Fultz is pointless. Our ods of getting him are so low that the idea is barely worth mentioning.
... they are 25%
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They lost Turner and it's showing. Not saying I'd pay him that ridiculous contract but they never really replaced him and Rozier hasn't really performed consistently either.
Turner had that ability and that's why he was like the second/third best scorer on the team in the Hawks playoff series, with Bradley out and IT being triple teamed.
Eh, as bad as Marcus' shooting has been, he's been pretty much just as effective on offense as Evan Turner (while being much more valuable on defense).
Evan's scoring efficiency this year is .497 TS and he's produced 13.2 points, 4.7 assists and 5.4 rebounds (0.8 ORB) per 36. Note that those numbers are pretty much almost exactly his career averages.
Marcus' scoring efficiency this year is .492 TS and he's produced 12.7 points, 5.2 assists and 4.6 rebounds (1.1 ORB) per 36.
Evan Turner's absence has not been the problem. Marcus has been every bit as productive as Turner in that role.
The problem is that we don't have someone better than that.
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we were up by 13 points. Bradley and Smart had awful, awful games on the offensive end. Jaylen was non existent. Amir was non existent.
It was basically Jae and Horford. Philly got hot and we hit 6 from 29 three point shots which is 20%.
This was simply a stinker of a game for us on the offensive end and the 76ers shot 48% from the field.
Trap game and we got trapped. Don't over react too much.
Of course, the bold part begs the question of how well our defense (minus the supposed 'defensive liability') performed.
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This is why I was pushing so hard for Anthony around the deadline
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This is why I was pushing so hard for Anthony around the deadline
Carmelo doesn't create the kind of shots you want.
He allows lots of shots the opponent wants.
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The truth of the matter is, without the scoring of IT, the C's are a .500 ball club... that's how unreliable our team scoring is without IT.
The problem is IT is a severely undersized PG who is a totally ineffective as a defender... in fact he is "the" point of attack for every team that plays us, plus he's not exactly a willing passer, he has trouble making teams pay who double him. To that point, our center is the main distributer of the ball in our offense. More and more IT is playing off the ball.
IT is in fact a one demential, wild card player that just happens to have a skill set that our team can't live without. He's a great scorer.
Some of us are just not comfortable with a team built like this. It's fools gold, and we know you'll never get into a finals with a formula like this.
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Nice to see JBrown only playing 12 minutes.. He should be well rested for the playoffs
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I would say critical, not just important.
Also bringing up Fultz is pointless. Our ods of getting him are so low that the idea is barely worth mentioning.
If our odds are so low, then what more for other teams?
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Not going to read too much into this loss, but man the 76ers just bodied us without arguably their two best players. This team could be a monster in 2-3years.
I think the overall strategy felt a bit off tonight, I felt a smaller quicker Jerebko would have been better on Saric on the defensive end and facilitated better spacing on the offensive end. Also felt that with IT out we needed our best shooters because the drive and kicks not going to be as open without IT if it's going to be contested I prefer JJ and KO over Smart.
One thing I appreciate about Horfords game is that there are simply no wasted possessions when the ball is in his hands... any play he makes or shot he takes is one he can comfortably make... a lot of our younger players still feel like they're forcing plays that are beyond the scope of their game.
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Give me Fultz
You may get him.
I would have started Rozier instead of Smart to keep the rotation the same.
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This is why I was pushing so hard for Anthony around the deadline
We had Joel Anthony but just let him walk. FIRE AINGE!
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Not going to read too much into this loss, but man the 76ers just bodied us without arguably their two best players. This team could be a monster in 2-3years.
Hmmmmm.
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This team needs another proven guy who can consistently score at a high level more than any other skill set whether or not we get Fultz.
One who can be more than just a good jump shooter. We have plenty of those.
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I would say critical, not just important.
Also bringing up Fultz is pointless. Our ods of getting him are so low that the idea is barely worth mentioning.
If our odds are so low, then what more for other teams?
That's aalmost completely irrelevant for the most part.
We have a better odd, on paper, of getting #1 then any other team. Unfortunately the lottery contains 14 teams, not two.
So even if we have better odds then any other team, we still only have a 25% chance. That means its 75% probability that we don't get the #1 pick.
If you look at historic drafts, you'll see that the team with the worst record has rarely even gotten the top pick. It happens, but rarely. The Sixers getting it last year was I think only the second or third time it's happened in the past 10 years. In fact in the last 15 years I think there have been more teams that have won the #1 pick from outside the top 5, then there have been actually from the #1 spot. Its usually teams in the 2-4 spots that tend to get the #1 pick.
And when it comes to draft pick Boston hasnt exactly head the best of it historically.
At the end of the day the odds of getting the #1 pick are so low that there may as well be no difference - whether you come last, 2nd last or 3rd last, the odds are similar enough that is practically a non factor.
We have a better shot then anybody, but our chances are still very low. There are a lot of people who seem to be practically banking on the fact that we will get the #1 pick and have the freedom to select whoever we want. Most likely scenario is we end up picking 2nd or 3rd.
Id love as much as anybody if we do select #1, but I am managing my expectations based on my knowledge of how improbable it is, and how unlucky the Celtics typically always get in the lottery.
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I would say critical, not just important.
Also bringing up Fultz is pointless. Our ods of getting him are so low that the idea is barely worth mentioning.
... they are 25%
Precisely my point.
If i had an illness and was going for an experiential treatment that I was told had a 25% chance of my coming out alive, I'd make sure my will is in order long before I start planning my next holiday.
You can call it pessimistic. I call it realistic. One in four odds are not good odds.
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This is why I was pushing so hard for Anthony around the deadline
Carmelo doesn't create the kind of shots you want.
He allows lots of shots the opponent wants.
Carmelo creates and makes the type of difficult shots that very few other players are capable of either creating or making, and he makes them consistently.
That's kind of important when you're in the playoffs competing against the leagues top teams - the type of games where easy shots are few and far between.
But having a player who is very efficient at making easy uncontested shots (e.g. Horford) is lovely to have in the regular season when half t your games are against teams who don't play defence.
Sadly Smart falls is the worst case of the two. He's a historically bass shooter AND he takes horrible shots too. The worst of both worlds.
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I would say critical, not just important.
Also bringing up Fultz is pointless. Our ods of getting him are so low that the idea is barely worth mentioning.
... they are 25%
They're not good odds, but they're better than anyone else's.
Precisely my point.
If i had an illness and was going for an experiential treatment that I was told had a 25% chance of my coming out alive, I'd make sure my will is in order long before I start planning my next holiday.
You can call it pessimistic. I call it realistic. One in four odds are not good odds.
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Yup...this is a huge deficiency.
Hayward/Griffin would do wonders...along with a Fultz/Ball type.
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This is why I was pushing so hard for Anthony around the deadline
Carmelo doesn't create the kind of shots you want.
He allows lots of shots the opponent wants.
Carmelo creates and makes the type of difficult shots that very few other players are capable of either creating or making, and he makes them consistently.
That's kind of important when you're in the playoffs competing against the leagues top teams - the type of games where easy shots are few and far between.
But having a player who is very efficient at making easy uncontested shots (e.g. Horford) is lovely to have in the regular season when half t your games are against teams who don't play defence.
Sadly Smart falls is the worst case of the two. He's a historically bass shooter AND he takes horrible shots too. The worst of both worlds.
That was my thinking on Anthony. He can create a shot for himself, or others, when being guarded by some of the best players in the world. He is a good outside shooter, can take people off the dribble, etc. When Thomas gets smothered in the post season, Anthony would be a great safety valve. Given the Knicks were basically trying to give him away, it is a real shame Boston didn't take a chance on him.
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This is why I was pushing so hard for Anthony around the deadline
Carmelo doesn't create the kind of shots you want.
He allows lots of shots the opponent wants.
Carmelo creates and makes the type of difficult shots that very few other players are capable of either creating or making, and he makes them consistently.
That's kind of important when you're in the playoffs competing against the leagues top teams - the type of games where easy shots are few and far between.
But having a player who is very efficient at making easy uncontested shots (e.g. Horford) is lovely to have in the regular season when half t your games are against teams who don't play defence.
Sadly Smart falls is the worst case of the two. He's a historically bass shooter AND he takes horrible shots too. The worst of both worlds.
That was my thinking on Anthony. He can create a shot for himself, or others, when being guarded by some of the best players in the world. He is a good outside shooter, can take people off the dribble, etc. When Thomas gets smothered in the post season, Anthony would be a great safety valve. Given the Knicks were basically trying to give him away, it is a real shame Boston didn't take a chance on him.
I wanted Melo too...but it sounds like they didn't want to upset the apple cart for this summer.
If plan A (top FA & Butler/George trade) doesn't work...perhaps Melo is plan B or C.
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This is why I was pushing so hard for Anthony around the deadline
Carmelo doesn't create the kind of shots you want.
He allows lots of shots the opponent wants.
Carmelo creates and makes the type of difficult shots that very few other players are capable of either creating or making, and he makes them consistently.
That's kind of important when you're in the playoffs competing against the leagues top teams - the type of games where easy shots are few and far between.
But having a player who is very efficient at making easy uncontested shots (e.g. Horford) is lovely to have in the regular season when half t your games are against teams who don't play defence.
Sadly Smart falls is the worst case of the two. He's a historically bass shooter AND he takes horrible shots too. The worst of both worlds.
That was my thinking on Anthony. He can create a shot for himself, or others, when being guarded by some of the best players in the world. He is a good outside shooter, can take people off the dribble, etc. When Thomas gets smothered in the post season, Anthony would be a great safety valve. Given the Knicks were basically trying to give him away, it is a real shame Boston didn't take a chance on him.
I wanted Melo too...but it sounds like they didn't want to upset the apple cart for this summer.
If plan A (top FA & Butler/George trade) doesn't work...perhaps Melo is plan B or C.
Sure, which is just silly in my mind because the East was there for the taking this year with all of the Cavs' injury issues and being so darn close to them in the standings. When the Celtics strike out this summer, what will the response be then?
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I would say critical, not just important.
Also bringing up Fultz is pointless. Our ods of getting him are so low that the idea is barely worth mentioning.
... they are 25%
Precisely my point.
If i had an illness and was going for an experiential treatment that I was told had a 25% chance of my coming out alive, I'd make sure my will is in order long before I start planning my next holiday.
You can call it pessimistic. I call it realistic. One in four odds are not good odds.
"You call it pessimistic, I call it realistic" that's the mantra of ALL you negative Nancy's. It's so wrong..Positive people are too far right and negative people are to far left. The actually realistic people live in the middle. Youre a pessimist.
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I would say critical, not just important.
Also bringing up Fultz is pointless. Our ods of getting him are so low that the idea is barely worth mentioning.
... they are 25%
Precisely my point.
If i had an illness and was going for an experiential treatment that I was told had a 25% chance of my coming out alive, I'd make sure my will is in order long before I start planning my next holiday.
You can call it pessimistic. I call it realistic. One in four odds are not good odds.
There is a difference between counting on adding Fultz and discussing it as a possibility.
25% is a completely legitimate possibility. Why not discuss it?
Your illness analogy is terrible. Im sure you can figure out by yourself how flawed it is.
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I would say critical, not just important.
Also bringing up Fultz is pointless. Our ods of getting him are so low that the idea is barely worth mentioning.
... they are 25%
Precisely my point.
If i had an illness and was going for an experiential treatment that I was told had a 25% chance of my coming out alive, I'd make sure my will is in order long before I start planning my next holiday.
You can call it pessimistic. I call it realistic. One in four odds are not good odds.
"You call it pessimistic, I call it realistic" that's the mantra of ALL you negative Nancy's. It's so wrong..Positive people are too far right and negative people are to far left. The actually realistic people live in the middle. Youre a pessimist.
TP!
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Without IT
We d have TWO lottery picks this year.
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Evan Turner is a HUGE loss this year because no one else can create offense for others. Crazy as it may sound, this is why I would be very cautious in trading Rozier. He is becoming a good scorer.
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IT is very important as the only player who can get to the FT line, which every basketball team needs when they go into shooting slumps, which this team does often, especially without IT to also make jumpshots.
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Without IT
We d have TWO lottery picks this year.
its a pick swap. So no we would not have 2 lottery picks.
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There is a big difference in this team with and without IT.
Without him we struggle to beat Brooklyn, the worst team in the NBA, and we lost to the 76ers, one of the cellar dweller lottery-bound teams in the NBA.
With IT, we beat a strong Wizards team to maintain our #2 position in the conference.
It makes you appreciate even more how talented IT is, and how much better he makes our team.
So glad that he's back!
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I would say critical, not just important.
Also bringing up Fultz is pointless. Our odds of getting him are so low that the idea is barely worth mentioning.
... they are 25%
Possibly a little better than that even. Consider what happens if LA gets the top pick? Are they going to pass on hometown hero Ball? Possibly not. I'm not sure Phoenix would take him either.
So I don't think it's out of the question that the Cs conceivably could get him anywhere from 1-3.