CelticsStrong
Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: jmen788 on March 01, 2017, 04:13:58 AM
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Philly was supposedly very interested in Bradley at the trade deadline, which makes sense as he fits their needs perfectly. Would you guys trade Bradley for Saric? Would Philly?
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Love Saric, Id do it. Not sure Philly does.
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Love Saric, Id do it. Not sure Philly does.
Yeah, I think that's about right. Saric fits our system perfectly and if Philly wants to play ball with their division rival in making a trade, they gotta give up Saric...
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If I could see Žižić and Šarić play together for the Celts next year, I would probably become catatonic from the amount of happiness. However, with all of the injury concerns that the 76ers have, it is tough to trade Šarić since Simmons isn't back and is 7 months away. Also, AB is injury prone himself so add that to the equation. On the other hand, AB is the perfect guard to complement a guy like Simmons and even Embiid. He can guard 1s and 2s, and stretch the floor while BS operates as a PG.
Šarić is the 76ers Smart, and he would be a great long-term upgrade on Amir and JJ. His 3pt shot will improve, and his contract is finger licking good. You never know.
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If I could see Žižić and Šarić play together for the Celts next year, I would probably become catatonic from the amount of happiness. However, with all of the injury concerns that the 76ers have, it is tough to trade Šarić since Simmons isn't back and is 7 months away. Also, AB is injury prone himself so add that to the equation. On the other hand, AB is the perfect guard to complement a guy like Simmons and even Embiid. He can guard 1s and 2s, and stretch the floor while BS operates as a PG.
Šarić is the 76ers Smart, and he would be a great long-term upgrade on Amir and JJ. His 3pt shot will improve, and his contract is finger licking good. You never know.
Yep, and recently he's also been rebounding very well to boot!
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Hopefully not, since I hope that Bradley is part of a bigger trade for someone like Butler.
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I really like Bradley, but Saric's upside appears to be very high. I don't think the Sixers would even consider this. Not to mention that Saric is the only high draft pick since the Hinkie era who has been healthy and productive. The only one! I think Saric is a foundational piece.
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I thought of this trade for a while and would do it. AB is the better player but it is a good trade for both teams IMO.
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It depends on which direction Danny wants to go this offseason, but if we are kind-of going for it - keeping BKN picks, but signing a max FA - then I would do this or something similar (others have mentioned Bradley for WCS). It would us to get a bargain contract through 2020, possibly keep KO, and still sign Hayward.
We obviously have the ability to sign AB for whatever we want, but the IT/Smart/AB contracts are going to cost a LOT.
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I think Philly would demand a draft pick or something since they'd be trading in three more years of rookie-scale control over Saric for an impending unrestricted free agent in Bradley.
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Forget about Sarić. He's off the block. He is their future.
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I would do this in a heartbeat, but you'd probably have to add more to the deal.
What about Henderson and Saric for Bradley, Rozier, Mickey, the 2017 LAC 2nd and the 2017 CLE 2nd?
Then in the off season you draft Fultz/Ball, sign Hayward, Bring in Zizic and Yabusele, resign Johnson using the MLE.
Thomas/Fultz or Ball/Jackson
Hayward/Smart/Henderson
Crowder/Brown/Young
Saric/Johnson/Yabusele
Horford/Zizic/(a vet min, Sullinger? hahaha)
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I'm really hoping these trade suggestions start to go away now that Bradley is back. It always happens to the player out injured.. "oh we're doing well without him therefore he isn't needed anymore", so short sighted.
What Bradley did last night to Irving, not even Smart can do that!
Bradley is worth far more to us than Saric. Bradley is kryptonite for the NBAs elite guards. It's been obvious (to me at least) that the only way guys like Bradley or Crowder leave the Cs is if a legit superstar is coming back the other way. Otherwise we are just continuing to build internally, testing FA and continuing to hunt down Cleveland
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I'm really hoping these trade suggestions start to go away now that Bradley is back. It always happens to the player out injured.. "oh we're doing well without him therefore he isn't needed anymore", so short sighted.
What Bradley did last night to Irving, not even Smart can do that!
Bradley is worth far more to us than Saric. Bradley is kryptonite for the NBAs elite guards. It's been obvious (to me at least) that the only way guys like Bradley or Crowder leave the Cs is if a legit superstar is coming back the other way. Otherwise we are just continuing to build internally, testing FA and continuing to hunt down Cleveland
Id still trade him for Saric straight up. Although Saric, like Jimmy Butler, is one of my binkies.
Saric has 3 years left on his rookie deal. He plays a position of need, and like Smart he makes a ton of winning plays.
Plus hes a good passer which Brad loves in a big man.
Also hes young enough that he fits right in with the Brown/Smart/'17/'18 core timeline, while also being able to probably start for the current team and make a positive impact.
I just dont see us keeping Bradley Smart Thomas long term.
Thomas is gonna get 30 mil. I bet Smart gets close to 20 and Bradley should be around 25.
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Forget about Sarić. He's off the block. He is their future.
If Saric is now their future, their future is pretty underwhelming.
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I don't know why Philly wouldn't do it unless they are just being difficult. Bradley and whatever PG they choose this draft would be a great pairing with Simmons and Embiid (hopefully they are healthy). I understand this is not an ideal circumstance for AB, but they will need to eventually spend money anyway (and just traded away Noel who was due a big payday).
Avery's veteran leadership and All-NBA level defense would be fantastic for that Philly team and he is still young. We would only be trading him because we can't afford the contracts of IT, Smart, and him, not because Saric is better.
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What a difference a few months makes on this board? Early this year, Saric was a C Level prospect at best, now people would give up Bradley in an instant for him.
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My take on Šarić's contract.
2016-17 2017-18 2018-19 2019-20
$2,318,280 $2,422,560 $2,526,840 $3,481,986
Next 3 years he will earn about 8.5 mil$.
Good starters get about 15-17 mil $ per year in the current open market. Solid backups get about 8-12 mil$.
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2016/6/30/12052290/nba-free-agent-signings-tracker-2016-rumors
This year Šarić is performing a bit better than say Jerebko and his 5 mil$. Let's say Šarić is worth 7/8 mil$ this year. It would mean that he is outperforming his contract by about 5 mil$ this year. A nice boost, although not that tangible ATM for the low payroll team that 76ers are now. Using the same process, pun intended, for the 17/18 season, Šarić will earn 2,4 mil$. Let's assume he will improve his game, sophomores usually do, to a step below a fringe starter level (~40-30 best players at his position), IMO he should outperform his deal for about 10 mil$ that year. Looking further down the road at his 3rd year, 25 y/o, relatively safe to imagine he will be even better as a player, outperforming his deal even more by 12 mil$.
By this account, he will outperform his payroll by ~30$ during this and next 2 years. Not counting in the last year of his contract (probably the most economically attractive one) I agree that this is speculative, but a reasonable projection. Of course, the cap number is the factor that helps to determine the market and we have only projections at this point, 102 and 107 mil$ without 19-20 season projection. Relatively stable.
Avery Bradley will get 8,8 mil$ next year but is worth about 20 mil$ to me, if he is healthy. That's about 12 mil net+. But after next season, unlike Šarić, he will look for a payday, rightfully so. He will get it somewhere. Maybe here, maybe someplace else. But I am confident he will sign in 18/20 mil$ range if injuries avoid him. If we are planning (we are) on being contenders with a couple of Max players within the next 16 months, we will need cheap deals to keep the whole thing sustainable. Crowder and Rookie deals, those can save us. If Crowder gets moved in a deal for a star, I'm not wishing it, than in a vacuum, the Šarić swap would look as a very reasonable thing to do.
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What a difference a few months makes on this board? Early this year, Saric was a C Level prospect at best, now people would give up Bradley in an instant for him.
Just wait. When Okafor has like two good defensive plays, they will trade AB for him. :laugh:
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I'm really hoping these trade suggestions start to go away now that Bradley is back. It always happens to the player out injured.. "oh we're doing well without him therefore he isn't needed anymore", so short sighted.
What Bradley did last night to Irving, not even Smart can do that!
Bradley is worth far more to us than Saric. Bradley is kryptonite for the NBAs elite guards. It's been obvious (to me at least) that the only way guys like Bradley or Crowder leave the Cs is if a legit superstar is coming back the other way. Otherwise we are just continuing to build internally, testing FA and continuing to hunt down Cleveland
Id still trade him for Saric straight up. Although Saric, like Jimmy Butler, is one of my binkies.
Saric has 3 years left on his rookie deal. He plays a position of need, and like Smart he makes a ton of winning plays.
Plus hes a good passer which Brad loves in a big man.
Also hes young enough that he fits right in with the Brown/Smart/'17/'18 core timeline, while also being able to probably start for the current team and make a positive impact.
I just dont see us keeping Bradley Smart Thomas long term.
Thomas is gonna get 30 mil. I bet Smart gets close to 20 and Bradley should be around 25.
No way he starts for us right now. I understand people don't rate Amir but Horford needs a guy next to him who can take the Cs for a large chunk of the game.
Bradley is our #2 scorer and our best man to man defender. I see no reason why we can't keep all 3 of them long term. Let's at least see how well they do in the playoffs first. Then see if we land a big FA. If we don't then it's absolutely workable under the cap.
I'm sure Saric continues to improve as he gets older but imo so will Bradley. I still don''t think he's done evolving as a player
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1000% no.
AB is the heart and soul of a very solid Celtics team. Look at the league these days. Never had there been so many elite pg's. Can't ascend anywhere without going thru a Kyrie, Curry, Westbrook, Lowry, Wall type killer.
No one is even close to AB with ability to defend small/quicks. I love smart, but he's more of a wing specialist, while AB time and time again proves his worth against the best of the best.
I just don't get the apathy towards competing around here. Every idea I see proposed is a 'let's punt in first down' kind of move.
We already outsourced the tank. Appreciate what you have! What Ainge is doing, this incremental improvement plan, is fairly unprecedented. AB is the core of that, the guy setting the example for Smart, Brown and whomever BK drafts for us next.
Absolutely cannnot overlook the human element of team building. Video game trades don't work in real life.
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We should re-sign Avery. Elite defender and shooter.
We should draft Jackson. He will be a much better pro than Saric, and could be our starting power forward by the end of next season. Would be a great pairing with Al. Rebounds, can switch on defense, great passer.
When we need to go bigger, put Zizic in lineup.
Brad will have a very dynamic team where guys can switch, he can go big or small depending on the situation.
Easy Peasy.
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Those questioning Saric couldn't have been watching him much, especially since they traded Ilyasova, giving Saric big minutes. Since that trade Saric has been averaging close to 20/10/5, and he along with Embid, Simmons, and another top pick this year, give 6'ers a great future....IMO, probably much better than our future core! Along with Pels and Lakers, they'll be one of our future nemesis, besides the already dominant Warriors, Spurs, and Cavs.
Would quickly do the AB for Saric trade, but 6'ers laugh at that one!
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Saric must return to his home planet of Vulcan this summer
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Just to follow up on my last post...I love AB! A really good talent with great heart, but like IT, and even Jae Crowder to some extent, UNDERSIZED! In the NBA, you need great talent WITH great size at your position. It's why LeBron is so good. The quickness of a much smaller player in that body, with his talent is what makes him so unstopable! MJ at 6'6" for a SG. Shaq, Magic, and Bird all had great size to go with their great talent! AB, IT, not so much, and it's hard to build a great team when you're already starting with a disadvantage. Now Saric, at 6'10" for a small forward(although he can play PF too) is a huge advantage......Brandon Ingram is another, especially when he adds some muscle.
It's a reason that I think Marcus and Jaylen are really our TRUE core of the future, as MS at PG, and Jaylen at SG would both have good size for their positions, and be a good cornerstone to build the future around.
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Those questioning Saric couldn't have been watching him much, especially since they traded Ilyasova, giving Saric big minutes. Since that trade Saric has been averaging close to 20/10/5, and he along with Embid, Simmons, and another top pick this year, give 6'ers a great future....IMO, probably much better than our future core! Along with Pels and Lakers, they'll be one of our future nemesis, besides the already dominant Warriors, Spurs, and Cavs.
Would quickly do the AB for Saric trade, but 6'ers laugh at that one!
That's quite a prection. 6ers, Pels and Lakers?
To me, the 6ers look just like the Blazers of old. Remember how unstoppable they were going to be once Roy, Aldridge & Oden developed? Folks had them pegged for a ten year dynasty.
But you can't win titles with a starting 5 of rookie deals, and it's never a sure thing to get those guys to gel and all get paid and have everything fall in your favor. That's why a GM's job is so much more than just drafting. I mean, look at Ainge. He's not really good at scouting /drafting teenagers but because of everything else he does excel at, he's considered one of the games best.
One question though. When do you predict Philly turns the corner and sneaks into the playoffs? They still feel at least 2-3 years away from that. Good prospects, especially the kid you need with competitive drives, usually don't have that kind of patience. Just as Noel has soured on the process, expect others (like Saric) to do the same. Their path is anything but easy, because of the one thing that everyone continues to overlook, the human factor.
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Just to follow up on my last post...I love AB! A really good talent with great heart, but like IT, and even Jae Crowder to some extent, UNDERSIZED! In the NBA, you need great talent WITH great size at your position. It's why LeBron is so good. The quickness of a much smaller player in that body, with his talent is what makes him so unstopable! MJ at 6'6" for a SG. Shaq, Magic, and Bird all had great size to go with their great talent! AB, IT, not so much, and it's hard to build a great team when you're already starting with a disadvantage. Now Saric, at 6'10" for a small forward(although he can play PF too) is a huge advantage......Brandon Ingram is another, especially when he adds some muscle.
It's a reason that I think Marcus and Jaylen are really our TRUE core of the future, as MS at PG, and Jaylen at SG would both have good size for their positions, and be a good cornerstone to build the future around.
Why trade a valuable asset like Bradley for a position that we will be able to fulfill in this coming draft (Jackson)??
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Those questioning Saric couldn't have been watching him much, especially since they traded Ilyasova, giving Saric big minutes. Since that trade Saric has been averaging close to 20/10/5, and he along with Embid, Simmons, and another top pick this year, give 6'ers a great future....IMO, probably much better than our future core! Along with Pels and Lakers, they'll be one of our future nemesis, besides the already dominant Warriors, Spurs, and Cavs.
Would quickly do the AB for Saric trade, but 6'ers laugh at that one!
That's quite a prection. 6ers, Pels and Lakers?
To me, the 6ers look just like the Blazers of old. Remember how unstoppable they were going to be once Roy, Aldridge & Oden developed? Folks had them pegged for a ten year dynasty.
But you can't win titles with a starting 5 of rookie deals, and it's never a sure thing to get those guys to gel and all get paid and have everything fall in your favor. That's why a GM's job is so much more than just drafting. I mean, look at Ainge. He's not really good at scouting /drafting teenagers but because of everything else he does excel at, he's considered one of the games best.
One question though. When do you predict Philly turns the corner and sneaks into the playoffs? They still feel at least 2-3 years away from that. Good prospects, especially the kid you need with competitive drives, usually don't have that kind of patience. Just as Noel has soured on the process, expect others (like Saric) to do the same. Their path is anything but easy, because of the one thing that everyone continues to overlook, the human factor.
The Thunder were in the NBA Finals with 3 of their top 4 by playoff minutes being on rookie deals (Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka) and the 4th was Durant who was in the 1st year of his 2nd contract.
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Those questioning Saric couldn't have been watching him much, especially since they traded Ilyasova, giving Saric big minutes. Since that trade Saric has been averaging close to 20/10/5, and he along with Embid, Simmons, and another top pick this year, give 6'ers a great future....IMO, probably much better than our future core! Along with Pels and Lakers, they'll be one of our future nemesis, besides the already dominant Warriors, Spurs, and Cavs.
Would quickly do the AB for Saric trade, but 6'ers laugh at that one!
That's quite a prection. 6ers, Pels and Lakers?
To me, the 6ers look just like the Blazers of old. Remember how unstoppable they were going to be once Roy, Aldridge & Oden developed? Folks had them pegged for a ten year dynasty.
But you can't win titles with a starting 5 of rookie deals, and it's never a sure thing to get those guys to gel and all get paid and have everything fall in your favor. That's why a GM's job is so much more than just drafting. I mean, look at Ainge. He's not really good at scouting /drafting teenagers but because of everything else he does excel at, he's considered one of the games best.
One question though. When do you predict Philly turns the corner and sneaks into the playoffs? They still feel at least 2-3 years away from that. Good prospects, especially the kid you need with competitive drives, usually don't have that kind of patience. Just as Noel has soured on the process, expect others (like Saric) to do the same. Their path is anything but easy, because of the one thing that everyone continues to overlook, the human factor.
The Sixers are only 6.5 games behind the Pistons for the 8th playoff spot this year. Obviously they have no hope to catch them, but it isn't that hard to see Philly as a mid to upper 30's win team next year and that is without any free agents joining them. I mean you would expect Simmons to be back fully healthy, they will have at least one if not two top ten picks in this draft, plus you would expect some growth from Saric, Okafor, Holmes, Stauskas, and McConnell and that doesn't even account for Embiid. They might also get Bayless back and you would expect Henderson and Covington to be quality players as they are this year.
Imagine if they actually get a top 3 pick with their own pick (or the Sacto swap) and then get the Lakers pick at 4. Put Fultz, Ball or Jackson with Isaac, Smith, or Fox and add them to the team they have coming back, and they could easily be an upper 30's win team, which might just get them into the playoffs next year and you would fully expect them in the playoffs two seasons from now.
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Those questioning Saric couldn't have been watching him much, especially since they traded Ilyasova, giving Saric big minutes. Since that trade Saric has been averaging close to 20/10/5, and he along with Embid, Simmons, and another top pick this year, give 6'ers a great future....IMO, probably much better than our future core! Along with Pels and Lakers, they'll be one of our future nemesis, besides the already dominant Warriors, Spurs, and Cavs.
Would quickly do the AB for Saric trade, but 6'ers laugh at that one!
That's quite a prection. 6ers, Pels and Lakers?
To me, the 6ers look just like the Blazers of old. Remember how unstoppable they were going to be once Roy, Aldridge & Oden developed? Folks had them pegged for a ten year dynasty.
But you can't win titles with a starting 5 of rookie deals, and it's never a sure thing to get those guys to gel and all get paid and have everything fall in your favor. That's why a GM's job is so much more than just drafting. I mean, look at Ainge. He's not really good at scouting /drafting teenagers but because of everything else he does excel at, he's considered one of the games best.
One question though. When do you predict Philly turns the corner and sneaks into the playoffs? They still feel at least 2-3 years away from that. Good prospects, especially the kid you need with competitive drives, usually don't have that kind of patience. Just as Noel has soured on the process, expect others (like Saric) to do the same. Their path is anything but easy, because of the one thing that everyone continues to overlook, the human factor.
The Thunder were in the NBA Finals with 3 of their top 4 by playoff minutes being on rookie deals (Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka) and the 4th was Durant who was in the 1st year of his 2nd contract.
The Thunder was embarrassed and crashed by the Heat and non of them have a ring yet
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Those questioning Saric couldn't have been watching him much, especially since they traded Ilyasova, giving Saric big minutes. Since that trade Saric has been averaging close to 20/10/5, and he along with Embid, Simmons, and another top pick this year, give 6'ers a great future....IMO, probably much better than our future core! Along with Pels and Lakers, they'll be one of our future nemesis, besides the already dominant Warriors, Spurs, and Cavs.
Would quickly do the AB for Saric trade, but 6'ers laugh at that one!
That's quite a prection. 6ers, Pels and Lakers?
To me, the 6ers look just like the Blazers of old. Remember how unstoppable they were going to be once Roy, Aldridge & Oden developed? Folks had them pegged for a ten year dynasty.
But you can't win titles with a starting 5 of rookie deals, and it's never a sure thing to get those guys to gel and all get paid and have everything fall in your favor. That's why a GM's job is so much more than just drafting. I mean, look at Ainge. He's not really good at scouting /drafting teenagers but because of everything else he does excel at, he's considered one of the games best.
One question though. When do you predict Philly turns the corner and sneaks into the playoffs? They still feel at least 2-3 years away from that. Good prospects, especially the kid you need with competitive drives, usually don't have that kind of patience. Just as Noel has soured on the process, expect others (like Saric) to do the same. Their path is anything but easy, because of the one thing that everyone continues to overlook, the human factor.
The Thunder were in the NBA Finals with 3 of their top 4 by playoff minutes being on rookie deals (Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka) and the 4th was Durant who was in the 1st year of his 2nd contract.
True. But they didn't win, and have since lost 3/4.
Not easy to get everyone paid without jealousy kicking in sooner or later. Incredibly difficult to make that leap.
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What a difference a few months makes on this board? Early this year, Saric was a C Level prospect at best, now people would give up Bradley in an instant for him.
While the improved play of saric has helped the biggest thing that has changed is that now you are talking about Bradley as a rental since he can't be traded till next season.
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Love Saric, Id do it. Not sure Philly does.
No way Philly does it. Saric is a huge building block for them and with both Simmons and Embiid having physical issues not going to happen...
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Those questioning Saric couldn't have been watching him much, especially since they traded Ilyasova, giving Saric big minutes. Since that trade Saric has been averaging close to 20/10/5, and he along with Embid, Simmons, and another top pick this year, give 6'ers a great future....IMO, probably much better than our future core! Along with Pels and Lakers, they'll be one of our future nemesis, besides the already dominant Warriors, Spurs, and Cavs.
Would quickly do the AB for Saric trade, but 6'ers laugh at that one!
That's quite a prection. 6ers, Pels and Lakers?
To me, the 6ers look just like the Blazers of old. Remember how unstoppable they were going to be once Roy, Aldridge & Oden developed? Folks had them pegged for a ten year dynasty.
But you can't win titles with a starting 5 of rookie deals, and it's never a sure thing to get those guys to gel and all get paid and have everything fall in your favor. That's why a GM's job is so much more than just drafting. I mean, look at Ainge. He's not really good at scouting /drafting teenagers but because of everything else he does excel at, he's considered one of the games best.
One question though. When do you predict Philly turns the corner and sneaks into the playoffs? They still feel at least 2-3 years away from that. Good prospects, especially the kid you need with competitive drives, usually don't have that kind of patience. Just as Noel has soured on the process, expect others (like Saric) to do the same. Their path is anything but easy, because of the one thing that everyone continues to overlook, the human factor.
The Thunder were in the NBA Finals with 3 of their top 4 by playoff minutes being on rookie deals (Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka) and the 4th was Durant who was in the 1st year of his 2nd contract.
True. But they didn't win, and have since lost 3/4.
Not easy to get everyone paid without jealousy kicking in sooner or later. Incredibly difficult to make that leap.
Fine, how about the Warriors. Win the title with the same 3 of 4 ratio (Thompson, Green, Barnes) and the 4th Curry was in year 2 of that 2nd contract.
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A guy like Bradley makes you win titles. He is the best player in the whole NBA to stop the Curries, Hardens or Irvings out there. I wouldn't trade him for Saric, as much as I like the Croatian.
Some of you are going to tell me some bad things :police:, but I think he may be more important than Isaiah in a close, hard, even dirty, playoff series. Defense gets more prominence from April onwards.
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this takes the cake
-insulting and embarrassing to celtic fans,
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this takes the cake
-insulting and embarrassing to celtic fans,
I think every single person on CB would keep AB if he would sign a team-friendly deal, it's just that many fear the $75M+/yr that he, IT, and Smart are proposed to make next summer. This is a pick 2 out 3 exercise.
By trading AB for a guy like Saric, you are able to comfortably sign a max FA like Hayward and maybe even conjure up enough money to keep KO. Three more years of solid production from a Brad-type guy for peanuts at a position of need is why people are even bringing up such a deal, not because we don't actually want AB on the team.
Frankly, it's the same reason Crowder is basically untouchable right now.
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this takes the cake
-insulting and embarrassing to celtic fans,
Please.
It's an idea that makes plenty of sense. You have 3 guards up for extensions in a year and there's a very good chance your top 3 pick is gonna be a guard in June. Add to that the fact that ainge for some reason loves Rozier and it is very reasonable to think about trading one of those guards.
AB is gonna want to get paid and Dario is young, cheap, on an extended deal and he fits our culture perfectly.
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I'm really hoping these trade suggestions start to go away now that Bradley is back. It always happens to the player out injured.. "oh we're doing well without him therefore he isn't needed anymore", so short sighted.
What Bradley did last night to Irving, not even Smart can do that!
Bradley is worth far more to us than Saric. Bradley is kryptonite for the NBAs elite guards. It's been obvious (to me at least) that the only way guys like Bradley or Crowder leave the Cs is if a legit superstar is coming back the other way. Otherwise we are just continuing to build internally, testing FA and continuing to hunt down Cleveland
Id still trade him for Saric straight up. Although Saric, like Jimmy Butler, is one of my binkies.
Saric has 3 years left on his rookie deal. He plays a position of need, and like Smart he makes a ton of winning plays.
Plus hes a good passer which Brad loves in a big man.
Also hes young enough that he fits right in with the Brown/Smart/'17/'18 core timeline, while also being able to probably start for the current team and make a positive impact.
I just dont see us keeping Bradley Smart Thomas long term.
Thomas is gonna get 30 mil. I bet Smart gets close to 20 and Bradley should be around 25.
No way he starts for us right now. I understand people don't rate Amir but Horford needs a guy next to him who can take the Cs for a large chunk of the game.
Bradley is our #2 scorer and our best man to man defender. I see no reason why we can't keep all 3 of them long term. Let's at least see how well they do in the playoffs first. Then see if we land a big FA. If we don't then it's absolutely workable under the cap.
I'm sure Saric continues to improve as he gets older but imo so will Bradley. I still don''t think he's done evolving as a player
By right now I meant next season.
You could still be right, but I see Al as a guy who is going to become more and more of a full time center as that contract moves along.
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this takes the cake
-insulting and embarrassing to celtic fans,
I think every single person on CB would keep AB if he would sign a team-friendly deal, it's just that many fear the $75M+/yr that he, IT, and Smart are proposed to make next summer. This is a pick 2 out 3 exercise.
By trading AB for a guy like Saric, you are able to comfortably sign a max FA like Hayward and maybe even conjure up enough money to keep KO. Three more years of solid production from a Brad-type guy for peanuts at a position of need is why people are even bringing up such a deal, not because we don't actually want AB on the team.
Frankly, it's the same reason Crowder is basically untouchable right now.
I've gotten to the point where I'd rather pay AB than Hayward.
If you are committed to Isaiah, then you require bulldog defenders alongside him. AB is the ideal fit for this team, and our defacto captain.
Something tells me Ainge stands pat for the next TWO seasons. Stay competitive, add top prospects, and let the cream rise to the top.
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this takes the cake
-insulting and embarrassing to celtic fans,
I think every single person on CB would keep AB if he would sign a team-friendly deal, it's just that many fear the $75M+/yr that he, IT, and Smart are proposed to make next summer. This is a pick 2 out 3 exercise.
By trading AB for a guy like Saric, you are able to comfortably sign a max FA like Hayward and maybe even conjure up enough money to keep KO. Three more years of solid production from a Brad-type guy for peanuts at a position of need is why people are even bringing up such a deal, not because we don't actually want AB on the team.
Frankly, it's the same reason Crowder is basically untouchable right now.
I've gotten to the point where I'd rather pay AB than Hayward.
If you are committed to Isaiah, then you require bulldog defenders alongside him. AB is the ideal fit for this team, and our defacto captain.
Something tells me Ainge stands pat for the next TWO seasons. Stay competitive, add top prospects, and let the cream rise to the top.
Honest question - would you rather pay IT or Hayward moving forward? I get the Bradley 'love' - I hate the idea of a quiet, hard working, all-NBA defense, very good offensive player leaving for nothing. He is the only piece remaining from our Big 3 teams and he plays the game how it should be played.
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this takes the cake
-insulting and embarrassing to celtic fans,
I think every single person on CB would keep AB if he would sign a team-friendly deal, it's just that many fear the $75M+/yr that he, IT, and Smart are proposed to make next summer. This is a pick 2 out 3 exercise.
By trading AB for a guy like Saric, you are able to comfortably sign a max FA like Hayward and maybe even conjure up enough money to keep KO. Three more years of solid production from a Brad-type guy for peanuts at a position of need is why people are even bringing up such a deal, not because we don't actually want AB on the team.
Frankly, it's the same reason Crowder is basically untouchable right now.
Just want to correct a few things. Trading AB for Saric would not free up enough cap space to sign Hayward. In that scenario you'd either have to trade away Rozier as well or not keep KO. That's without even considering the Nets pick being above #3.
Also it's a fallacy that we can't afford to keep all 3. There are so many things between now and then which could influence that. Not least what we do with our cap space this summer. Or that the guys might well take less than the market rate to play for a contender. Even if we pay them all market rate we can still keep them, it would just limit what we could spend on our big men.
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this takes the cake
-insulting and embarrassing to celtic fans,
I think every single person on CB would keep AB if he would sign a team-friendly deal, it's just that many fear the $75M+/yr that he, IT, and Smart are proposed to make next summer. This is a pick 2 out 3 exercise.
By trading AB for a guy like Saric, you are able to comfortably sign a max FA like Hayward and maybe even conjure up enough money to keep KO. Three more years of solid production from a Brad-type guy for peanuts at a position of need is why people are even bringing up such a deal, not because we don't actually want AB on the team.
Frankly, it's the same reason Crowder is basically untouchable right now.
I've gotten to the point where I'd rather pay AB than Hayward.
If you are committed to Isaiah, then you require bulldog defenders alongside him. AB is the ideal fit for this team, and our defacto captain.
Something tells me Ainge stands pat for the next TWO seasons. Stay competitive, add top prospects, and let the cream rise to the top.
Honest question - would you rather pay IT or Hayward moving forward? I get the Bradley 'love' - I hate the idea of a quiet, hard working, all-NBA defense, very good offensive player leaving for nothing. He is the only piece remaining from our Big 3 teams and he plays the game how it should be played.
I feel IT is the better player, so all things being equal I'd rather keep our guy than bring in Hayward.
I don't see Gordan having the same killer instinct down the stretch of games, or being able to setup his teammates as well as IT does.
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this takes the cake
-insulting and embarrassing to celtic fans,
Please.
It's an idea that makes plenty of sense. You have 3 guards up for extensions in a year and there's a very good chance your top 3 pick is gonna be a guard in June. Add to that the fact that ainge for some reason loves Rozier and it is very reasonable to think about trading one of those guards.
AB is gonna want to get paid and Dario is young, cheap, on an extended deal and he fits our culture perfectly.
More likely we draft Jackson, Tatum or Isaac than Ball or Fultz. This is why I find your case unpursuasive.
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I think Hayward is not a net gain. Would rather focus on signing IT and Bradley and Smart, and drafting big.
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this takes the cake
-insulting and embarrassing to celtic fans,
I think every single person on CB would keep AB if he would sign a team-friendly deal, it's just that many fear the $75M+/yr that he, IT, and Smart are proposed to make next summer. This is a pick 2 out 3 exercise.
By trading AB for a guy like Saric, you are able to comfortably sign a max FA like Hayward and maybe even conjure up enough money to keep KO. Three more years of solid production from a Brad-type guy for peanuts at a position of need is why people are even bringing up such a deal, not because we don't actually want AB on the team.
Frankly, it's the same reason Crowder is basically untouchable right now.
Just want to correct a few things. Trading AB for Saric would not free up enough cap space to sign Hayward. In that scenario you'd either have to trade away Rozier as well or not keep KO. That's without even considering the Nets pick being above #3.
Also it's a fallacy that we can't afford to keep all 3. There are so many things between now and then which could influence that. Not least what we do with our cap space this summer. Or that the guys might well take less than the market rate to play for a contender. Even if we pay them all market rate we can still keep them, it would just limit what we could spend on our big men.
Do you mind estimating the numbers for me on why we wouldn't be able to afford Hayward, Saric, KO, and the BKN pick if trading Bradley?
Avery's salary next year is approximately $8.8M.
KO's qualifying offer is $4.3M.
Saric's salary is $2.4M
KO and Saric seem to easily fit in Avery's at $6.7M. I was under the impression that we would be able to sign Hayward to a max contract (with Avery) if we got the #3 or #4 pick in the draft, but it got a little hazier if we got #1 or #2. I would think that $2M we are clearing from Avery's salary into KO/Saric would be enough to cover that(?)
Is KO's QO not correct? Is it listed at that amount, but actually a good deal greater?
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this takes the cake
-insulting and embarrassing to celtic fans,
Please.
It's an idea that makes plenty of sense. You have 3 guards up for extensions in a year and there's a very good chance your top 3 pick is gonna be a guard in June. Add to that the fact that ainge for some reason loves Rozier and it is very reasonable to think about trading one of those guards.
AB is gonna want to get paid and Dario is young, cheap, on an extended deal and he fits our culture perfectly.
More likely we draft Jackson, Tatum or Isaac than Ball or Fultz. This is why I find your case unpursuasive.
OK, so you will grant that in the scenario where we draft Bal or Fultz, this trade makes sense?
Do you really believe Ainge will be willing to pay his backcourt 70 million a year when he likes Rozier and has a gaping hole at the power forward position?
I dont see it.
Also, Ive got no problem with people who disagree with the trade or my logic. I completely see where the other side comes from. I completely get the logic behind wanting to keep a guy who shoots 40% from deep can defend Kyrie and Steph as well as anyone on earth and is a consummate professional.
I do mind, when people call the idea insulting and embarassing.
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1000% no.
AB is the heart and soul of a very solid Celtics team. Look at the league these days. Never had there been so many elite pg's. Can't ascend anywhere without going thru a Kyrie, Curry, Westbrook, Lowry, Wall type killer.
No one is even close to AB with ability to defend small/quicks. I love smart, but he's more of a wing specialist, while AB time and time again proves his worth against the best of the best.
I just don't get the apathy towards competing around here. Every idea I see proposed is a 'let's punt in first down' kind of move.
We already outsourced the tank. Appreciate what you have! What Ainge is doing, this incremental improvement plan, is fairly unprecedented. AB is the core of that, the guy setting the example for Smart, Brown and whomever BK drafts for us next.
Absolutely cannnot overlook the human element of team building. Video game trades don't work in real life.
Bradley is hurt half the time! You gotta send him out while his value is high. He can't guard a chair if he can't play. I get that he had a great game defensively last night, but he will cost 25 million per year and is hurt half the time. It's too much of a gamble.
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A guy like Bradley makes you win titles. He is the best player in the whole NBA to stop the Curries, Hardens or Irvings out there. I wouldn't trade him for Saric, as much as I like the Croatian.
Some of you are going to tell me some bad things :police:, but I think he may be more important than Isaiah in a close, hard, even dirty, playoff series. Defense gets more prominence from April onwards.
Again, he can't win titles with his D if he is hurt. He just has a good game so the green kool aid homerism is pretty intense right now, but let's just hope he stays health the rest of the year. If we end up drafting Fultz that makes Bradley that much more expendable. Even if we don't, we have Rozier, Marcus, IT... we have to think long term. I see no reason why Bradley for Saric would make us less of a contender, that kid is a stud.
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Again, he can't win titles with his D if he is hurt. He just has a good game so the green kool aid homerism is pretty intense right now
I think a similar mindset can be said for those who have a fondness for Europlayers who are excelling and magically think teams will give them away...
It is not homerism but it is just as tainted albeit in the opposite direction.
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Again, he can't win titles with his D if he is hurt. He just has a good game so the green kool aid homerism is pretty intense right now
I think the same can be said for those who have a fondness for Europlayers who are excelling and magically think teams will give them away...
Not really. They wouldn't be giving him away as Bradley is a great player who fits their needs to a T. Plus they have high draft picks coming where they can get another solid 4. But okay!
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this takes the cake
-insulting and embarrassing to celtic fans,
I think every single person on CB would keep AB if he would sign a team-friendly deal, it's just that many fear the $75M+/yr that he, IT, and Smart are proposed to make next summer. This is a pick 2 out 3 exercise.
By trading AB for a guy like Saric, you are able to comfortably sign a max FA like Hayward and maybe even conjure up enough money to keep KO. Three more years of solid production from a Brad-type guy for peanuts at a position of need is why people are even bringing up such a deal, not because we don't actually want AB on the team.
Frankly, it's the same reason Crowder is basically untouchable right now.
Just want to correct a few things. Trading AB for Saric would not free up enough cap space to sign Hayward. In that scenario you'd either have to trade away Rozier as well or not keep KO. That's without even considering the Nets pick being above #3.
Also it's a fallacy that we can't afford to keep all 3. There are so many things between now and then which could influence that. Not least what we do with our cap space this summer. Or that the guys might well take less than the market rate to play for a contender. Even if we pay them all market rate we can still keep them, it would just limit what we could spend on our big men.
Do you mind estimating the numbers for me on why we wouldn't be able to afford Hayward, Saric, KO, and the BKN pick if trading Bradley?
Avery's salary next year is approximately $8.8M.
KO's qualifying offer is $4.3M.
Saric's salary is $2.4M
KO and Saric seem to easily fit in Avery's at $6.7M. I was under the impression that we would be able to sign Hayward to a max contract (with Avery) if we got the #3 or #4 pick in the draft, but it got a little hazier if we got #1 or #2. I would think that $2M we are clearing from Avery's salary into KO/Saric would be enough to cover that(?)
Is KO's QO not correct? Is it listed at that amount, but actually a good deal greater?
The main point of confusion is the QO. You're right it is $4.3m, but the associated cap hold is actually $7.7m.
http://www.celticsblog.com/2017/1/15/14281028/celtics-salary-cap-update-new-cba-edition (http://www.celticsblog.com/2017/1/15/14281028/celtics-salary-cap-update-new-cba-edition)
Saltlover wrote an article on our cap space this summer, really good read to get the basics of it. In the article he assumes the Nets pick lands at #3, we would be $700k short of the space needed for Hayward if we waived all our FAs. If you add in KO we would be ~$8.4m short. Trading Bradley for draft considerations would clear the space but trading him for Saric would still leave us ~$2m short of the needed cap space.
Even dropping to the 4th pick doesn't clear enough space on its own. If we are to sign Hayward this summer then it will likely need Rozier to be moved or Yab to remain overseas another year. It's going to be hard to make the room for a top tier FA, so much so that I'm questioning it a bit. If we instead renegotiate Isaiah using the cap space we could keep our current core together. It could also have the added benefit of increasing the trade value of some of our guys if we decided to hand the reins over to the young guys in a few years time
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this takes the cake
-insulting and embarrassing to celtic fans,
I think every single person on CB would keep AB if he would sign a team-friendly deal, it's just that many fear the $75M+/yr that he, IT, and Smart are proposed to make next summer. This is a pick 2 out 3 exercise.
By trading AB for a guy like Saric, you are able to comfortably sign a max FA like Hayward and maybe even conjure up enough money to keep KO. Three more years of solid production from a Brad-type guy for peanuts at a position of need is why people are even bringing up such a deal, not because we don't actually want AB on the team.
Frankly, it's the same reason Crowder is basically untouchable right now.
Just want to correct a few things. Trading AB for Saric would not free up enough cap space to sign Hayward. In that scenario you'd either have to trade away Rozier as well or not keep KO. That's without even considering the Nets pick being above #3.
Also it's a fallacy that we can't afford to keep all 3. There are so many things between now and then which could influence that. Not least what we do with our cap space this summer. Or that the guys might well take less than the market rate to play for a contender. Even if we pay them all market rate we can still keep them, it would just limit what we could spend on our big men.
Do you mind estimating the numbers for me on why we wouldn't be able to afford Hayward, Saric, KO, and the BKN pick if trading Bradley?
Avery's salary next year is approximately $8.8M.
KO's qualifying offer is $4.3M.
Saric's salary is $2.4M
KO and Saric seem to easily fit in Avery's at $6.7M. I was under the impression that we would be able to sign Hayward to a max contract (with Avery) if we got the #3 or #4 pick in the draft, but it got a little hazier if we got #1 or #2. I would think that $2M we are clearing from Avery's salary into KO/Saric would be enough to cover that(?)
Is KO's QO not correct? Is it listed at that amount, but actually a good deal greater?
The main point of confusion is the QO. You're right it is $4.3m, but the associated cap hold is actually $7.7m.
http://www.celticsblog.com/2017/1/15/14281028/celtics-salary-cap-update-new-cba-edition (http://www.celticsblog.com/2017/1/15/14281028/celtics-salary-cap-update-new-cba-edition)
Saltlover wrote an article on our cap space this summer, really good read to get the basics of it. In the article he assumes the Nets pick lands at #3, we would be $700k short of the space needed for Hayward if we waived all our FAs. If you add in KO we would be ~$8.4m short. Trading Bradley for draft considerations would clear the space but trading him for Saric would still leave us ~$2m short of the needed cap space.
Even dropping to the 4th pick doesn't clear enough space on its own. If we are to sign Hayward this summer then it will likely need Rozier to be moved or Yab to remain overseas another year. It's going to be hard to make the room for a top tier FA, so much so that I'm questioning it a bit. If we instead renegotiate Isaiah using the cap space we could keep our current core together. It could also have the added benefit of increasing the trade value of some of our guys if we decided to hand the reins over to the young guys in a few years time
Sundance has the cap stuff figured out! Nicely done!
I will say that if a Bradley-Saric swap were offered over the summer, and we had Hayward waiting to sign, I would be quite in favor of such a move, even if it meant letting Olynyk walk. It would be a lot easier to afford maxing IT and keeping Smart in 2018 if the team were paying $2.5 and $3.5 million in the 2018 and 2019 seasons than Olynyk a good deal more ($10 mil a year? $12 mil? $15 mil?) It would be nice to find a vet big (who could play the 4) at the room exception so that Saric didn't have too big a load, and while we wait for Zizic and Yab to germinate.
But the starting lineup could be IT/Hayward//Crowder/Saric/Horford, the closing lineup IT/Smart/Hayward/Crowder/Horford, with Brown, the Brooklyn pick, Rozier, Zizic, and ideally that vet big rounding out the rotation. It'd be a taxpaying team in 2018, but the tax might be near the upper limit of what the team would be willing to pay. Keeping Olynyk around could make affording Smart in 2018 difficult, so, yes, sign me up for a Bradley-Saric swap, even if it costs Olynyk next season.
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If we COULD trade AB for Saric, and Philly would do it, AND we could convince Hayward to sign here we'd could have:
PG 6'4" MSmart
SG 6'6" JBrown
SF 6'8" GHayward
PF 6'10" DSaric
C 6"10" AHorford
Not a great rebounding crew, but better, and all with legit size for their positions! Good all around players with high BBIQ's.
IT for 6th man, KO, Zizic, Rozier.......maybe Nader, Yabu.....plus some spots for rooks! Like it!
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Oops! Forgot Jae Crowder! Nice bench though!
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If we COULD trade AB for Saric, and Philly would do it, AND we could convince Hayward to sign here we'd could have:
PG 6'4" MSmart
SG 6'6" JBrown
SF 6'8" GHayward
PF 6'10" DSaric
C 6"10" AHorford
Not a great rebounding crew, but better, and all with legit size for their positions! Good all around players with high BBIQ's.
IT for 6th man, KO, Zizic, Rozier.......maybe Nader, Yabu.....plus some spots for rooks! Like it!
you arent benching Isaiah Thomas
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Thanks Sundance and SL for the clarification. I wish sites were more specific with QO and cap holds since the cap hold in this scenario is what really matters for KO.
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Not a chance
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Thanks Sundance and SL for the clarification. I wish sites were more specific with QO and cap holds since the cap hold in this scenario is what really matters for KO.
My go to place is basketballinsiders.com, their team salary pages tend to be pretty accurate and they have a separate table for cap holds at the end of contracts. It's not the definitive guide but it helps
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Oh I love this trade idea. I think philly would do it actually. People are over rating the Colangelos. If Hinkie was GM then sure, this trade would be more difficult to achieve. However I think both sides win jn this trade. We would miss Bradley. The hope would be smart gets better at shooting, since he still isn't an efficient offensive player. Also Rozier would need to make a jump. Not sure how much a player like Fultz or Ball would help year 1. I think There is a good chance Fultz could average 18 his first year, but no way Stevens plays him enough or Let's him run the offense during his rookie season. As for Ball, he's not going to be great in his rookie season Imo. He has a long way to go, similar to brown.
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What a difference a few months makes on this board? Early this year, Saric was a C Level prospect at best, now people would give up Bradley in an instant for him.
And yet a few months of Noel getting traded for nothing and Okafor's value diminishing doesn't change anything from your perspective. It was like we never discussed those players value on this board
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this takes the cake
-insulting and embarrassing to celtic fans,
I think every single person on CB would keep AB if he would sign a team-friendly deal, it's just that many fear the $75M+/yr that he, IT, and Smart are proposed to make next summer. This is a pick 2 out 3 exercise.
By trading AB for a guy like Saric, you are able to comfortably sign a max FA like Hayward and maybe even conjure up enough money to keep KO. Three more years of solid production from a Brad-type guy for peanuts at a position of need is why people are even bringing up such a deal, not because we don't actually want AB on the team.
Frankly, it's the same reason Crowder is basically untouchable right now.
Just want to correct a few things. Trading AB for Saric would not free up enough cap space to sign Hayward. In that scenario you'd either have to trade away Rozier as well or not keep KO. That's without even considering the Nets pick being above #3.
Also it's a fallacy that we can't afford to keep all 3. There are so many things between now and then which could influence that. Not least what we do with our cap space this summer. Or that the guys might well take less than the market rate to play for a contender. Even if we pay them all market rate we can still keep them, it would just limit what we could spend on our big men.
Do you mind estimating the numbers for me on why we wouldn't be able to afford Hayward, Saric, KO, and the BKN pick if trading Bradley?
Avery's salary next year is approximately $8.8M.
KO's qualifying offer is $4.3M.
Saric's salary is $2.4M
KO and Saric seem to easily fit in Avery's at $6.7M. I was under the impression that we would be able to sign Hayward to a max contract (with Avery) if we got the #3 or #4 pick in the draft, but it got a little hazier if we got #1 or #2. I would think that $2M we are clearing from Avery's salary into KO/Saric would be enough to cover that(?)
Is KO's QO not correct? Is it listed at that amount, but actually a good deal greater?
The main point of confusion is the QO. You're right it is $4.3m, but the associated cap hold is actually $7.7m.
http://www.celticsblog.com/2017/1/15/14281028/celtics-salary-cap-update-new-cba-edition (http://www.celticsblog.com/2017/1/15/14281028/celtics-salary-cap-update-new-cba-edition)
Saltlover wrote an article on our cap space this summer, really good read to get the basics of it. In the article he assumes the Nets pick lands at #3, we would be $700k short of the space needed for Hayward if we waived all our FAs. If you add in KO we would be ~$8.4m short. Trading Bradley for draft considerations would clear the space but trading him for Saric would still leave us ~$2m short of the needed cap space.
Even dropping to the 4th pick doesn't clear enough space on its own. If we are to sign Hayward this summer then it will likely need Rozier to be moved or Yab to remain overseas another year. It's going to be hard to make the room for a top tier FA, so much so that I'm questioning it a bit. If we instead renegotiate Isaiah using the cap space we could keep our current core together. It could also have the added benefit of increasing the trade value of some of our guys if we decided to hand the reins over to the young guys in a few years time
Sundance has the cap stuff figured out! Nicely done!
I will say that if a Bradley-Saric swap were offered over the summer, and we had Hayward waiting to sign, I would be quite in favor of such a move, even if it meant letting Olynyk walk. It would be a lot easier to afford maxing IT and keeping Smart in 2018 if the team were paying $2.5 and $3.5 million in the 2018 and 2019 seasons than Olynyk a good deal more ($10 mil a year? $12 mil? $15 mil?) It would be nice to find a vet big (who could play the 4) at the room exception so that Saric didn't have too big a load, and while we wait for Zizic and Yab to germinate.
But the starting lineup could be IT/Hayward//Crowder/Saric/Horford, the closing lineup IT/Smart/Hayward/Crowder/Horford, with Brown, the Brooklyn pick, Rozier, Zizic, and ideally that vet big rounding out the rotation. It'd be a taxpaying team in 2018, but the tax might be near the upper limit of what the team would be willing to pay. Keeping Olynyk around could make affording Smart in 2018 difficult, so, yes, sign me up for a Bradley-Saric swap, even if it costs Olynyk next season.
Until Saltlover (our cap guy) confirms it, a lot of members act like it is blasphemous to discuss ABs future. Guys, you can think on your own. It is not that difficult to find a way to want a born winner that is outplaying his contract value by 10 times. I root for the Celtics, not just for a specific player. In Europe we have a say: "Club stays, players go".
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Thanks Sundance and SL for the clarification. I wish sites were more specific with QO and cap holds since the cap hold in this scenario is what really matters for KO.
Yeah, the cap sites are imprecise with this, although to be fair, it's difficult to display both relevant numbers in a single table. And if they made it too easy to figure out, no one would care what I had to say! 8)
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Androslav that does a disservice to a lot of European clubs. Not sure if you meant Basketball clubs specifically, in which case I wouldn't know, but football clubs and rugby clubs around the continent regularly herald players who transcend the club.
Being a Newcastle United fan we have Jackie Milburn and Alan Shearer who both have statues outside the club, their are immortal in folk lore, essentially part of the fabric of the club. Sir Alex Ferguson at Man Utd is another example, or Buffon for Juventus.
I understand that Bradley is not at that kind of status but it's fair to say that he is underrated by many. He is also a locker room leader which is important, just look at Philly to tell you why...
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What a difference a few months makes on this board? Early this year, Saric was a C Level prospect at best, now people would give up Bradley in an instant for him.
And yet a few months of Noel getting traded for nothing and Okafor's value diminishing doesn't change anything from your perspective. It was like we never discussed those players value on this board
Noel never had much value in a trade given he is was an impending restricted free agent who many believed was going to be seeking (and might very well get) a contract in the 20 million a year range. I've been pretty consistent on that position.
Okafor wasn't traded so no one has any idea what his value actually is. Supposedly Chicago tried to trade Mirotic for him which Philly rebuked, Mirotic is a quality NBA player, not a world beater or anything but, but not a bum either.
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So the trade would need to be AB, KO, and Rozier for Saric and Henderson? Henderson's final year is non guarenteed like Zeller.
Waive/renounce Zeller, Amir, Jerebko, Henderson, Young, Green.
Saric is basically the replacement for KO. The thought is to go after a free agent (Hayward) for max money instead of giving AB a big contract next offseason. Also, would not have to pay KO big money or watch him walk for nothing.
How soon would we have to pay Saric big money and how much would he cost?
I like the trade even if we have to throw in a 2019 pick or our own 2018. There's just not going to be money or minutes for all of these guys. Bradley is great but Fultz/Ball have the potential to be even better and Hayward would bring that second elite scoring option that we really need.
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So the trade would need to be AB, KO, and Rozier for Saric and Henderson? Henderson's final year is non guarenteed like Zeller.
Waive/renounce Zeller, Amir, Jerebko, Henderson, Young, Green.
Saric is basically the replacement for KO. The thought is to go after a free agent (Hayward) for max money instead of giving AB a big contract next offseason. Also, would not have to pay KO big money or watch him walk for nothing.
How soon would we have to pay Saric big money and how much would he cost?
I like the trade even if we have to throw in a 2019 pick or our own 2018. There's just not going to be money or minutes for all of these guys. Bradley is great but Fultz/Ball have the potential to be even better and Hayward would bring that second elite scoring option that we really need.
Saric is on the 1st year of his rookie contract so he's got 3 more cheap years. In 9 of his last 10 games, he's scored at least 18pts and had at least 10 rebs in 5 of them. Maybe the best thing for the Sixers is that he's played in all 61 games so no health worries. So there's no way the Sixers would trade Saric for a 1 year rental of AB.
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Why the need to trade Bradley? The only reason I can think of is what he might command on his next salary. But, think about it. Bradley has turned into an amazing player. He's a Celtic. He's perfect. Trade him for a bona fide star, maybe. But if not, sign him. I am confident Wyc and the owners will pay luxury taxes IF we are a contender.
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Thanks Sundance and SL for the clarification. I wish sites were more specific with QO and cap holds since the cap hold in this scenario is what really matters for KO.
Yeah, the cap sites are imprecise with this, although to be fair, it's difficult to display both relevant numbers in a single table. And if they made it too easy to figure out, no one would care what I had to say! 8)
Yeah, I am not sure why you with your vast knowledge of the CBA and salary cap (among many other things) and foulweatherfan with his political cognition even put up with us underlings here at CB; but we are grateful. Please keep up the good work, but we understand if you decide to move on to a bigger and brighter future ;D
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So there's no way the Sixers would trade Saric for a 1 year rental of AB.
I agree TP,
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Those questioning Saric couldn't have been watching him much, especially since they traded Ilyasova, giving Saric big minutes. Since that trade Saric has been averaging close to 20/10/5, and he along with Embid, Simmons, and another top pick this year, give 6'ers a great future....IMO, probably much better than our future core! Along with Pels and Lakers, they'll be one of our future nemesis, besides the already dominant Warriors, Spurs, and Cavs.
Would quickly do the AB for Saric trade, but 6'ers laugh at that one!
One question though. When do you predict Philly turns the corner and sneaks into the playoffs? They still feel at least 2-3 years away from that.
Wut? If they move Okafor to the back of the rotation they'll probably make it next year.
3 of their projected starters have played something like 35 games combined this year and they are a whopping 6 games out.
I don't think penciling in Embiid impact for more than half a season is really something you can count on at this point. But Simmons and Bayless are more likely than not to play and bump out the Sergio Rodriguez types of the world from the rotation.
Not to mention possibly two top 5 picks, minimum on one in/around the top 7. And a ton of cap space.
And the teams above them aren't exactly juggernauts.
Their 1st, probably 2nd, 5th and maybe 7th or 8th (Bayless) best players are all injured right now. They traded their 3rd best guy for peanuts at the deadline. And they're still 5-5 and in their last 10.
You pretty clearlydon't really have an informed opinion on the matter.
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Those questioning Saric couldn't have been watching him much, especially since they traded Ilyasova, giving Saric big minutes. Since that trade Saric has been averaging close to 20/10/5, and he along with Embid, Simmons, and another top pick this year, give 6'ers a great future....IMO, probably much better than our future core! Along with Pels and Lakers, they'll be one of our future nemesis, besides the already dominant Warriors, Spurs, and Cavs.
Would quickly do the AB for Saric trade, but 6'ers laugh at that one!
One question though. When do you predict Philly turns the corner and sneaks into the playoffs? They still feel at least 2-3 years away from that.
Wut? If they move Okafor to the back of the rotation they'll probably make it next year.
3 of their projected starters have played something like 35 games combined this year and they are a whopping 6 games out.
I don't think penciling in Embiid impact for more than half a season is really something you can count on at this point. But Simmons and Bayless are more likely than not to play and bump out the Sergio Rodriguez types of the world from the rotation.
Not to mention possibly two top 5 picks, minimum on one in/around the top 7. And a ton of cap space.
And the teams above them aren't exactly juggernauts.
Their 1st, probably 2nd, 5th and maybe 7th or 8th (Bayless) best players are all injured right now. They traded their 3rd best guy for peanuts at the deadline. And they're still 5-5 and in their last 10.
You pretty clearlydon't really have an informed opinion on the matter.
I wouldn't go so far as to say they're a lock for the postseason next year. There's still a lot for them to figure out rotation-wise and they'll probably be leaning pretty heavily on rookies next season as well. If everything breaks right they could wind up in the conversation, especially with a sub-.500 record getting you the 8 seed as often as not, but someone thinking they're 2-3 years away (keep in mind, two years away is season after next) is far from being wildly outlandish.
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What about a similar trade to Phoenix?
Bradley/Olynyk/2019 pick for:
Marquise Chriss and the non-guaranteed contract of Barbosa?
I know Booker plays SG, but Bradley and Booker could coexist in a small ball lineup. I like Chriss's defensive potential better than Saric anyway. Would Phoenix go for something like that?
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What about a similar trade to Phoenix?
Bradley/Olynyk/2019 pick for:
Marquise Chriss and the non-guaranteed contract of Barbosa?
I know Booker plays SG, but Bradley and Booker could coexist in a small ball lineup. I like Chriss's defensive potential better than Saric anyway. Would Phoenix go for something like that?
They wouldn't. They are very high on Chriss, and I understand why.
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What about a similar trade to Phoenix?
Bradley/Olynyk/2019 pick for:
Marquise Chriss and the non-guaranteed contract of Barbosa?
I know Booker plays SG, but Bradley and Booker could coexist in a small ball lineup. I like Chriss's defensive potential better than Saric anyway. Would Phoenix go for something like that?
These are the types of options Danny will be exploring this summer (minus KO since he is a RFA) as to not lose Bradley for nothing.
AB should absolutely be worth a mid-lottery level pick to the team trading for him as they should feel quite comfortable paying for his next contract.
TP for an AB trade idea I haven't heard or thought about before.
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Another option is Trey Lyles plus Borisa Diaw's contract.
Two lesser options are Skal Labissiere and Anthony Tolliver's contract or Paul Pierce's contract along with Brice Johnson.
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Of course Utah wont help us get cap space :o so forget that one.