CelticsStrong
Around the League => The Draft => Topic started by: KG Living Legend on December 07, 2016, 02:35:56 AM
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Draft express currently has him at #6. I say he ends up being a top three selection in a loaded draft.
He looked fantastic tonight, in what was I believe his second game back this season against the Florida Gators. He had 22 points, he's just got a nice smooth game I'll post the Duke highlights as soon as I can find them it's going to be awesome.
6'7" shoes off. Great size and feel for the game. Silky smooth like the Zohan.
Show this guy some love that called Tatum a top 3 pick in a loaded draft on December 7th 2016. Tatum was ranked#6 at the time.
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Kyrie Irving was at that the game, and loved his fade away at about 1 minute in, these highlights don't show much but they give you an idea. The kids got wide shoulders and he's got a great basketball body he's going to be special.
https://youtu.be/9xh1_q6vQrs
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Hm really looks promising but I'll take Brown over him
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Hm really looks promising but I'll take Brown over him
Yeah right. I love Brown and I'll even acknowledge that Tatum is a lot better draft prospect than Brown based on his ability to score alone. If we have the opportunity to draft Tatum we take him and never look back. We can groom Brown as our starting 2 for the foreseeable future.
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Hm really looks promising but I'll take Brown over him
Oh absolutely no chance whatsoever I'll take Brown over Jason. I think he's in contention for the number one overall pick right now.
He and fultz are neck-and-neck in my opinion. And this is a much stronger draft class than last year. Tatum is the better asset in my mind.
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Tatum really looks like a young Pierce ;D I'm a big fan, you could easily pair Brown and Tatum together by moving Brown down to guard.
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Draft express currently has him at #6. I say he ends up being a top three selection in a loaded draft.
He looked fantastic tonight, in what was I believe his second game back this season against the Florida Gators. He had 22 points, he's just got a nice smooth game I'll post the Duke highlights as soon as I can find them it's going to be awesome.
6'7" shoes off. Great size and feel for the game. Silky smooth like the Zohan.
****! :laugh: :laugh: If we draft him you've gotta push that as a nickname!
I'd like to see some more of him, I've seen the highlight vids of him in HS and I like his game a lot. Much more cerebral than some of the other guys in the draft. I'd be very happy adding him to this team
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I watched the second half of last night's game, and was very impressed. Seemed to have Brown's athleticism with a more polished offensive game.
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KG,
when did you become Yoda?
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KG,
when did you become Yoda?
Tp Ouja, just trying to crack some smiles out here Lol.
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Tatum doesn't stand out athletically. But he just scores with ease. Seems like a scorer which is something that could help us. How is his range from 3 point and beyond though? In today's NBA you've got to be able to space the defense and make em pay when they sag off.
Could he be the next ... Carmelo?
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Reminds me of a offensively smoother Tobias Harris. Frame and everything. I think thats a good comparison for him.
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he's our pick and it has nothing to do with play... DA loves players who wear zero (AB and Jaylen) and have a J sound in their names (Jaylen/Jae and he is Jayson)! LOL
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As good as he is, he won't be cracking Brad's rotation soon if we drafted him as long as he put subpar efforts on the defensive end. That's the number 1 priority on Steven's list.
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he's our pick and it has nothing to do with play... DA loves players who wear zero (AB and Jaylen) and have a J sound in their names (Jaylen/Jae and he is Jayson)! LOL
Jared Sullinger wore 0 at OSU.
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We have JB but JT does not suck.
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Like him but my binkies in this draft are Giles and Markennan
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Markkanen nice. Looks like KO but with the hustle. Goes to the basket too and can pass.
KO really hasn't changed much since college
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbqIfvu79NQ
Markkanen looks similar but with a little more hustle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=armVa4hYLvI
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Markkanen looks skilled but the dude moves and his shot are slower than pond water.
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Tatum is like a paul piece type athlete. Solid looking player. But Brown has a higher ceiling... Celts need to add top top level talents preferably at the pf spot
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Markkanen looks skilled but the dude moves and his shot are slower than pond water.
Exactly... I like hartenstein
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Well I think he'll be a lot faster once he gets to pro level; he has a pretty good work ethic and he's quite a cerebral player
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Not bad. Hartenstein is getting a lot of hype too and seems like he has a bit more upside. I don't think we need either with KO here. I'm not even sure after this year we need KO with Yab stashed and jerebko.
Could be a decent later pick if we made a trade and need a replacement. Ainge finds these guys later though. Not sure he is worth it that high. Or we even need another pf who plays outside.
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Tatum is good because he could be an actual star but young as well. I'm not sure I want that with Jaylen here. Jaylen does not suck. If we make a run at hayward that makes more sense. If we can't get him or make a trade though Tatum is an option.
Tatum does not suck. I more question how he makes sense for the celtics.
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Like him but my binkies in this draft are Giles and Markennan
Markennan may stay in school and improve his stock. He's soft on defense and not very athletic. I would hope DA would pass on him if we get a top 5 pick.
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Like him but my binkies in this draft are Giles and Markennan
Markennan may stay in school and improve his stock. He's soft on defense and not very athletic. I would hope DA would pass on him if we get a top 5 pick.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/772329109032607744/TFVXypat.jpg)
ikr?
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here is a nice analysis of tatum's offense. i am impressed and right now would not mind him being a celtic.
http://www.libertyballers.com/2016/12/21/14032790/future-sixers-jayson-tatum-is-a-star-in-the-making-w-gifs
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ikr?
He may look great in that pic but watch the tape, it takes a lot of time for him to gather himself for a jump. That means slow jumper. Dennis Rodmen could not jump the highest but he read the ball well and was fast off his feet, which is sometimes more important than one big jump.
They note this as well here.
Weaknesses: His wingspan is average and that limits him on both ends of the floor… He is a good but not an elite athlete… He needs time to gather before jumping and that could hurt him at the next level… He could add a little more weight to be able to stand the physicality of the next level… His back to the basket game isn’t completely there yet… He doesn’t always establish position in the post and has problems doing it against physical players… He could improve his ball handling to be more effective on Isolation situations… His shooting mechanics are excellent, but his shooting release is a little slow, which gives his opponents time to contest his shot… Consistency is an issue, since he still has the tendency to disappear for long stretches of games … At times he is a little passive on offense and doesn’t always ask for the ball… Just an average passer for now… Off ball Defense needs work, since at times he is too focused on the ball and loses sight of the player he is guarding… He must improve on Post Defense, learn how to use his body and not get bullied by physical players… Weak side defense is also an issue since at times he is just a step too slow to help… It’s really difficult to imagine him becoming an elite shot blocker due to his average wingspan and inability to jump high from a standing position … He has problems defending when he is asked to switch and has to guard an explosive perimeter player since his lateral quickness is just OK for now…
http://www.nbadraft.net/players/lauri-markkanen
So one pic, does little to prove your point, especially given the nuances of scouting.
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Tatum is a little more athletic and has more upside, but he's very similar to TJ Warren on the Sun's.
Both 6'7" shoes off with some a 6'10" wingspan for both of them.
Both dynamic, tall, skilled, mid range scorers and Ball handlers like Evan Turner.
They are not really athletically gifted either, but they hold there own.
BTW. Warren is coming into his own thus year avg over 15 ppg, here he goes for 30 points.
https://youtu.be/J6SntQLkhSk
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You really can't compare the two especially Tatum being so much younger and not being healthy early. Tatum is 10x the prospect
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You really can't compare the two especially Tatum being so much younger and not being healthy early. Tatum is 10x the prospect
Sure you can very similar games very similar body size. TJ went from 12 points per game to 25 points per game his sophomore year. There is no way Tatum would have that type of jump in his second year.
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You have to look at Tatum's body of work not just his stats from 3 or 4 games. The guy has been known for years.
You really can't compare the two especially Tatum being so much younger and not being healthy early. Tatum is 10x the prospect
Sure you can very similar games very similar body size. TJ went from 12 points per game to 25 points per game his sophomore year. There is no way Tatum would have that type of jump in his second year.
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His go to shot is the long two, the most inefficient shot which he's shooting, inefficiently, he passes up open 3s for those folks... which doesn't bode well, I'd say.
And at 6'8" and he can't dunk the ball on a fastbreak with a 6'3" guy trailing him?! He just seems like too much of a finesse player. And we are NOT a finesse team 8) Please no, I'd rather wait for Jaylen to show signs of life.
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The frontcourt is full of finesse players. Anyways he dont have to be that type of dog. He just has to put the ball in the basket.
And this is where the numbers make the game boring as hell. I want to see the ball go in the basket. BY your logic you would take Crowder over Derozen because Derozen shoots long 2's. Well guess what they go in.
The numbers would tell you to never take a guy like KG on offense because he shoots long 2's well guess what, I would take his consistency all day over the brickfest that I see from bigs today because the numbers say you need to shoot 3's.
The numbers are leading to alot of one dimensional players and frankly I think thats boring. A ton of 1 level scorers that cant dribble, post up, draw contact, or finish with any type of traffic.
Lastly, directly about Tatum. Developing range is easier than being able to develop what he already has in his game.
His go to shot is the long two, the most inefficient shot which he's shooting, inefficiently, he passes up open 3s for those folks... which doesn't bode well, I'd say.
And at 6'8" and he can't dunk the ball on a fastbreak with a 6'3" guy trailing him?! He just seems like too much of a finesse player. And we are NOT a finesse team 8) Please no, I'd rather wait for Jaylen to show signs of life.
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I think it's safe to say we are getting a chance at either Ball or Fultz. I'm like not-so-secretly also a Dallas Mavericks fan right now
I think Tatum wasn't meant to shoot such a high volume of shots in Coach Ks system. It's probable that Harry Giles was gonna be a big part of the offense and Grayson Allen fell off the map with his shooting. So Jayson was tasked with more of a scoring load. He's getting to the line and going to his midrange game at a usage rate of 30% which is higher than Fultz' and Malik Monk's! Even the biggest Tatum supporter knows his confidence on offense isn't on that level yet but he does contribute immensely on the defensive end.
I'm sure guys like to play with him, I'm very concern about his leaping ability though thats important with his frame. Might not be blocking as many shots in the NBA, he could be a Harrison Barnes clone with better defense.
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I think it's safe to say we are getting a chance at either Ball or Fultz. I'm like not-so-secretly also a Dallas Mavericks fan right now
I think Tatum wasn't meant to shoot such a high volume of shots in Coach Ks system. It's probable that Harry Giles was gonna be a big part of the offense and Grayson Allen fell off the map with his shooting. So Jayson was tasked with more of a scoring load. He's getting to the line and going to his midrange game at a usage rate of 30% which is higher than Fultz' and Malik Monk's! Even the biggest Tatum supporter knows his confidence on offense isn't on that level yet but he does contribute immensely on the defensive end.
I'm sure guys like to play with him, I'm very concern about his leaping ability though thats important with his frame. Might not be blocking as many shots in the NBA, he could be a Harrison Barnes clone with better defense.
I wouldn't say Harrison Barnes because Barnes is a lot more one- dimensional than people are led to believe. I think with Tatum you honestly have a Paul Pierce scorer/type player. His footwork and touch are so advanced for his age and while he's not super athletic he no doubt has the athleticism to be a very good scorer at the next level. His defensive acumen is a plus because usually the scoring type doesn't share the two ability that Tatum has.
I've said it time and time again it's Fultz or Tatum.
Ball is fools gold. Bleacher Report has a good piece on why he's overhyped as a prospect. He struggles to get to the rim in the half court or create assists in the half court. A majority of his assists come from fast break opportunities and so do most of his made shots around the rim. His shot is falling, but it's a slow release and it's tough to see how an awkward/slow release like that will translate to the length of NBA defenders.
Fultz and Ball have the most translatable games to the next level and have plenty of potential to grow into star or even superstar players.
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I think it's safe to say we are getting a chance at either Ball or Fultz. I'm like not-so-secretly also a Dallas Mavericks fan right now
I think Tatum wasn't meant to shoot such a high volume of shots in Coach Ks system. It's probable that Harry Giles was gonna be a big part of the offense and Grayson Allen fell off the map with his shooting. So Jayson was tasked with more of a scoring load. He's getting to the line and going to his midrange game at a usage rate of 30% which is higher than Fultz' and Malik Monk's! Even the biggest Tatum supporter knows his confidence on offense isn't on that level yet but he does contribute immensely on the defensive end.
I'm sure guys like to play with him, I'm very concern about his leaping ability though thats important with his frame. Might not be blocking as many shots in the NBA, he could be a Harrison Barnes clone with better defense.
I wouldn't say Harrison Barnes because Barnes is a lot more one- dimensional than people are led to believe. I think with Tatum you honestly have a Paul Pierce scorer/type player. His footwork and touch are so advanced for his age and while he's not super athletic he no doubt has the athleticism to be a very good scorer at the next level. His defensive acumen is a plus because usually the scoring type doesn't share the two ability that Tatum has.
I've said it time and time again it's Fultz or Tatum.
Ball is fools gold. Bleacher Report has a good piece on why he's overhyped as a prospect. He struggles to get to the rim in the half court or create assists in the half court. A majority of his assists come from fast break opportunities and so do most of his made shots around the rim. His shot is falling, but it's a slow release and it's tough to see how an awkward/slow release like that will translate to the length of NBA defenders.
Fultz and Ball have the most translatable games to the next level and have plenty of potential to grow into star or even superstar players.
Wait so is Ball fools gold or a future star
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I think it's safe to say we are getting a chance at either Ball or Fultz. I'm like not-so-secretly also a Dallas Mavericks fan right now
I think Tatum wasn't meant to shoot such a high volume of shots in Coach Ks system. It's probable that Harry Giles was gonna be a big part of the offense and Grayson Allen fell off the map with his shooting. So Jayson was tasked with more of a scoring load. He's getting to the line and going to his midrange game at a usage rate of 30% which is higher than Fultz' and Malik Monk's! Even the biggest Tatum supporter knows his confidence on offense isn't on that level yet but he does contribute immensely on the defensive end.
I'm sure guys like to play with him, I'm very concern about his leaping ability though thats important with his frame. Might not be blocking as many shots in the NBA, he could be a Harrison Barnes clone with better defense.
I wouldn't say Harrison Barnes because Barnes is a lot more one- dimensional than people are led to believe. I think with Tatum you honestly have a Paul Pierce scorer/type player. His footwork and touch are so advanced for his age and while he's not super athletic he no doubt has the athleticism to be a very good scorer at the next level. His defensive acumen is a plus because usually the scoring type doesn't share the two ability that Tatum has.
I've said it time and time again it's Fultz or Tatum.
Ball is fools gold. Bleacher Report has a good piece on why he's overhyped as a prospect. He struggles to get to the rim in the half court or create assists in the half court. A majority of his assists come from fast break opportunities and so do most of his made shots around the rim. His shot is falling, but it's a slow release and it's tough to see how an awkward/slow release like that will translate to the length of NBA defenders.
Fultz and Ball have the most translatable games to the next level and have plenty of potential to grow into star or even superstar players.
Wait so is Ball fools gold or a future star
That depends on who drafts him. If Ball goes to a rough situation like Miami (Poor system fit) or Phoenix (Crowded back court) I think he's due for a rocky start to his career. If he could get into a great situation like New Orleans (Opportunity) or Minnesota (established talent around him) he could go down as one of the all time greats.
The kid looks special, though I'm staying consistent in that I don't want to be watching Lonzo Ball Ball for the next 10 years. Would love Fultz and would tolerate Dennis Smith Jr, but other than them I want no part in taking another guard in the 2017 NBA Draft.
Lonzo Ball ask a lot from whatever team drafts him. For some situations that's a positive, for ours... might be a case of too many cooks.
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I think it's safe to say we are getting a chance at either Ball or Fultz. I'm like not-so-secretly also a Dallas Mavericks fan right now
I think Tatum wasn't meant to shoot such a high volume of shots in Coach Ks system. It's probable that Harry Giles was gonna be a big part of the offense and Grayson Allen fell off the map with his shooting. So Jayson was tasked with more of a scoring load. He's getting to the line and going to his midrange game at a usage rate of 30% which is higher than Fultz' and Malik Monk's! Even the biggest Tatum supporter knows his confidence on offense isn't on that level yet but he does contribute immensely on the defensive end.
I'm sure guys like to play with him, I'm very concern about his leaping ability though thats important with his frame. Might not be blocking as many shots in the NBA, he could be a Harrison Barnes clone with better defense.
I wouldn't say Harrison Barnes because Barnes is a lot more one- dimensional than people are led to believe. I think with Tatum you honestly have a Paul Pierce scorer/type player. His footwork and touch are so advanced for his age and while he's not super athletic he no doubt has the athleticism to be a very good scorer at the next level. His defensive acumen is a plus because usually the scoring type doesn't share the two ability that Tatum has.
I've said it time and time again it's Fultz or Tatum.
Ball is fools gold. Bleacher Report has a good piece on why he's overhyped as a prospect. He struggles to get to the rim in the half court or create assists in the half court. A majority of his assists come from fast break opportunities and so do most of his made shots around the rim. His shot is falling, but it's a slow release and it's tough to see how an awkward/slow release like that will translate to the length of NBA defenders.
Fultz and Ball have the most translatable games to the next level and have plenty of potential to grow into star or even superstar players.
Tatum OBPM is 0.6 at an usage rate of 30%. He's not lighting college on fire right now. So hold your horses with the next paul pierce. Tatum supporters always ignore his offensive woes this season, he can get better but I'm not placing blind faith on that. I need to see it to believe it
Also I'd like to think this franchise isn't that predictable that they draft for defensive player every year and hope they go from none shooter to good shooter and then we miss out on. legit Great shooters. Look at Young being on a pro roster, RJ' scase, Green now, Rozier at the start of the season... Danny wants a guard that can shoot.
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Tatum has played in 5 games this year. Not much of a track record if you are going on college stats. Looking at his stats now is like Jaylen Brown syndrome all over again. Tatum isnt new on the scene. The guy has been playing in high level games for years. NBA teams arent going to look at a 5 game snapshot of numbers and say oh slow down here. They are looking at skills that will translate.
With Tatum they are looking for the following things: 1) can he extend his range to the 3 2) can he lock in on D consistently 3) can he be a playmaker for others 4) does he find ways to attack the rim and finish.
None of these things have to do with usage rate. Jaylen had a usage rate of like 31.6 last year and sits at about 11 this year. So you say to yourself what skills does this guy have that can make him special on the next level. Oh an btw, Jaylen showed virtually no playmaking skills at Cal but if you had watched him earlier in his career the skills were there. So if you looked at his Assist to TO ratio you would say the guy was horrible based on college stats but if you have watched him in the pros when he wasnt required to be the main scoring option and had people moving its a different story.
Bottom line, lets not get too carried away with numbers on a college level.
I think it's safe to say we are getting a chance at either Ball or Fultz. I'm like not-so-secretly also a Dallas Mavericks fan right now
I think Tatum wasn't meant to shoot such a high volume of shots in Coach Ks system. It's probable that Harry Giles was gonna be a big part of the offense and Grayson Allen fell off the map with his shooting. So Jayson was tasked with more of a scoring load. He's getting to the line and going to his midrange game at a usage rate of 30% which is higher than Fultz' and Malik Monk's! Even the biggest Tatum supporter knows his confidence on offense isn't on that level yet but he does contribute immensely on the defensive end.
I'm sure guys like to play with him, I'm very concern about his leaping ability though thats important with his frame. Might not be blocking as many shots in the NBA, he could be a Harrison Barnes clone with better defense.
I wouldn't say Harrison Barnes because Barnes is a lot more one- dimensional than people are led to believe. I think with Tatum you honestly have a Paul Pierce scorer/type player. His footwork and touch are so advanced for his age and while he's not super athletic he no doubt has the athleticism to be a very good scorer at the next level. His defensive acumen is a plus because usually the scoring type doesn't share the two ability that Tatum has.
I've said it time and time again it's Fultz or Tatum.
Ball is fools gold. Bleacher Report has a good piece on why he's overhyped as a prospect. He struggles to get to the rim in the half court or create assists in the half court. A majority of his assists come from fast break opportunities and so do most of his made shots around the rim. His shot is falling, but it's a slow release and it's tough to see how an awkward/slow release like that will translate to the length of NBA defenders.
Fultz and Ball have the most translatable games to the next level and have plenty of potential to grow into star or even superstar players.
Tatum OBPM is 0.6 at an usage rate of 30%. He's not lighting college on fire right now. So hold your horses with the next paul pierce. Tatum supporters always ignore his offensive woes this season, he can get better but I'm not placing blind faith on that. I need to see it to believe it
Also I'd like to think this franchise isn't that predictable that they draft for defensive player every year and hope they go from none shooter to good shooter and then we miss out on. legit Great shooters. Look at Young being on a pro roster, RJ' scase, Green now, Rozier at the start of the season... Danny wants a guard that can shoot.
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Uh oh...does Mr. Tay Tay have a low ceiling?
https://theringer.com/jayson-tatums-old-game-could-use-some-new-tricks-c37f49bb21b8#.tetmfv3yr
"...he may not have the upside to be worth a pick near the top of the lottery, especially if he can’t become a more versatile offensive player."
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Uh oh...does Mr. Tay Tay have a low ceiling?
https://theringer.com/jayson-tatums-old-game-could-use-some-new-tricks-c37f49bb21b8#.tetmfv3yr
"...he may not have the upside to be worth a pick near the top of the lottery, especially if he can’t become a more versatile offensive player."
That's a good article but it doesnt say anything that we didnt already know about him going into the season. He has always been very good at what he does. Now with that being said the only thing I would like to see from him is developing more as a playmaker. I dont care about usage rate and assist numbers and his 3pt %. That's all irrelevant to me. Its all about his skill level.
I dont know what he will be as a pro for sure but I kinda had to laugh at this article because it doesnt offer new info and is using stats to back up the claim. This report could have been made about Pierce as a college player just looking at the stats.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/piercpa01.html#all_all_college_stats
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28 pts, 8 reb vs Virginia - 2/15/2017
https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=ow7kgjF9iF8
Prob his game of the year so far
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28 pts, 8 reb vs Virginia - 2/15/2017
https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=ow7kgjF9iF8
Prob his game of the year so far
But will he be BPA? IDK...IMO... :P
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28 pts, 8 reb vs Virginia - 2/15/2017
https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=ow7kgjF9iF8
Prob his game of the year so far
But will he be BPA? IDK...IMO... :P
Same....
He doesnt have above average quickness.... Can jump but in space... Kind of like James Young
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28 pts, 8 reb vs Virginia - 2/15/2017
https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=ow7kgjF9iF8
Prob his game of the year so far
Meh. Just got hot and hit a bunch of low percentage shot attempts that he will normally not hit.
I think Tatum has shown more in other games. More moves. Better shot selection. Whether with his driving or his mid post game. Against Virginia, a bad 3 point shooter just got hot. Had a lucky shooting night. Not that impressive.
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28 pts, 8 reb vs Virginia - 2/15/2017
https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=ow7kgjF9iF8
Prob his game of the year so far
Meh. Just got hot and hit a bunch of low percentage shot attempts that he will normally not hit.
I think Tatum has shown more in other games. More moves. Better shot selection. Whether with his driving or his mid post game. Against Virginia, a bad 3 point shooter just got hot. Had a lucky shooting night. Not that impressive.
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28 pts, 8 reb vs Virginia - 2/15/2017
https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=ow7kgjF9iF8
Prob his game of the year so far
Meh. Just got hot and hit a bunch of low percentage shot attempts that he will normally not hit.
I think Tatum has shown more in other games. More moves. Better shot selection. Whether with his driving or his mid post game. Against Virginia, a bad 3 point shooter just got hot. Had a lucky shooting night. Not that impressive.
Yes but he got hot and rode it
In the past he would pass up some shots he should not or needs to take over but again passed up the shot
Its good to see from time to time.. otherwise I agree with you
Tatum is in the 7-11 range for this upcoming draft imo
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His stroke and follow looked great ... he shot right in the face of his defender ... going 6 for 7 is not luck..
His game has been improving as the year goes on... I have a feeling he will light up the tournament
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His stroke and follow looked great ... he shot right in the face of his defender ... going 6 for 7 is not luck..
His game has been improving as the year goes on... I have a feeling he will light up the tournament
He has a good frame, broad shoulders and if he can pack 15 more pounds of muscle, he could he a nice stretch 4 at the NBA level
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I think Tatum is back in play for the #2 pick. He upped his 3pt% to 37%, which was like the major knock on his game at the start of the season.
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28 pts, 8 reb vs Virginia - 2/15/2017
https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=ow7kgjF9iF8
Prob his game of the year so far
Meh. Just got hot and hit a bunch of low percentage shot attempts that he will normally not hit.
I think Tatum has shown more in other games. More moves. Better shot selection. Whether with his driving or his mid post game. Against Virginia, a bad 3 point shooter just got hot. Had a lucky shooting night. Not that impressive.
I agree with this, I like Tatum a lot, but when I watched the youtube highlights I was hoping for more drives and quality moves. What I saw was him hit a lot of contested 3's.
At least he did it against a good defense. Isn't UVA known for their defense?
I'm a big Tatum fan though, I think he could be a big time scorer in the NBA, but I don't think last game showed the best that he can do.
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Draft Express has made a new video of Tatum showing off his isolation skills. They call him arguably the most polished isolation scorer in the upcoming draft. It's worth a watch.
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Jayson-Tatum---Iso-Machine-5806
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28 pts, 8 reb vs Virginia - 2/15/2017
https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=ow7kgjF9iF8
Prob his game of the year so far
Meh. Just got hot and hit a bunch of low percentage shot attempts that he will normally not hit.
I think Tatum has shown more in other games. More moves. Better shot selection. Whether with his driving or his mid post game. Against Virginia, a bad 3 point shooter just got hot. Had a lucky shooting night. Not that impressive.
I agree with this, I like Tatum a lot, but when I watched the youtube highlights I was hoping for more drives and quality moves. What I saw was him hit a lot of contested 3's.
At least he did it against a good defense. Isn't UVA known for their defense?
I'm a big Tatum fan though, I think he could be a big time scorer in the NBA, but I don't think last game showed the best that he can do.
I think with each game you are just looking for signs of what a guy can do. They arent going to do the same thing in each game. Sometimes teams dictate what you can do based on your perceived weakness and he showed that he is capable of hitting the shot.
Tatum is a shot maker and not a shooter which Im totally fine with. Butler is a shot maker and not a shooter and many would give up a ton to get him. He like Brown would benefit from a team like Boston because they were by far used to doing everything for their respective teams in HS that their was a real adjustment period for both. Brown all of a sudden had alot less space and didnt play an open floor game. For Tatum he had other scorers on the team that could actually score which both he and Brown only dealt with when playing on Team USA.
Here is what I see. I see a guy in Tatum who tried to do everything while he teammates were also trying to to everything and it exposed the weaknesses of all the players at this team. Each were still effective but became really inefficient. As roles got defined, his efficiency and effectiveness went up because he didnt have to do as much to get his buckets but his skill level was still just as high which says to me if you put him on a team like Boston he can be effective and really grow and eventually have huge nights like the other night.
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I think Tatum is back in play for the #2 pick. He upped his 3pt% to 37%, which was like the major knock on his game at the start of the season.
He is not going to end up the #2 pick
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Draft Express has made a new video of Tatum showing off his isolation skills. They call him arguably the most polished isolation scorer in the upcoming draft. It's worth a watch.
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Jayson-Tatum---Iso-Machine-5806
Thanks for posting the video. Really shows how his game should translate well into the NBA.
Reminds me of Pierce in his rhythm and foot work. Not a bad comparison.
Wow, we are going to get a great player, no matter what. Tatum should be in the top 4 discussion. Ahead of Isaacs.
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I think Tatum is back in play for the #2 pick. He upped his 3pt% to 37%, which was like the major knock on his game at the start of the season.
He is not going to end up the #2 pick
And that would be a good thing considering the production of #2 picks over the last 20 years. Almost every year people talk how close it is between the top 2 picks or how the 2nd pick is going to me some mega star. History has shown this not to be the case.
This year is similar to 2012 in which people talked about how MKG was such a winner and made winning plays. SO far I havent seen that translate.
Hell even in the 2008 draft the 2nd pick was the worst pick out of the top 5 so Im all good with getting the 2nd pick.
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Every game I have watched him he looks lost on D. He can score but he is a one way player folks.
Likely a 3 as his lack of great foot speed limits his effectiveness off the dribble, and his size and shooting fits the 3 position ...
Lacks strength for physical play at higher levels but should add strength in time …
http://www.nbadraft.net/players/jayson-tatum
He won't be ready from day one. I got the same feeling watching Dunn last year and he has been scary in terms of not living up to hype. I correspondingly hope we don't draft him.
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Every game I have watched him he looks lost on D. He can score but he is a one way player folks.
Likely a 3 as his lack of great foot speed limits his effectiveness off the dribble, and his size and shooting fits the 3 position ...
Lacks strength for physical play at higher levels but should add strength in time …
http://www.nbadraft.net/players/jayson-tatum
He won't be ready from day one. I got the same feeling watching Dunn last year and he has been scary in terms of not living up to hype. I correspondingly hope we don't draft him.
A one way player based on what? He isnt a playmaker, yes like any player he misses defensive assignments but lets not pretend he doesnt rebound well, doesnt create more shots off the bounce for guys, plays the passing lanes well, and can block shots at a decent rate.
Which players are going to be ready day one? I can only count one Fultz. That's it. And who really cares about the hype. Jaylen had no hype and Ingram had a ton but look at what they both have produced so far.
The only guy that doesnt have very noticeable weaknesses is Fultz all the rest have sure fire question marks. Its a matter of if you want to recognize them or not.
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It is incredible that Tatum is considered a worst case scenario pick for us. I like him a lot better than Jaylen Brown and see him as a Paul Pierce/Caron Butler type player.
JT would have gone in the top three in the past 7 drafts. This one is just particularly loaded.
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Every game I have watched him he looks lost on D. He can score but he is a one way player folks.
Likely a 3 as his lack of great foot speed limits his effectiveness off the dribble, and his size and shooting fits the 3 position ...
Lacks strength for physical play at higher levels but should add strength in time …
http://www.nbadraft.net/players/jayson-tatum
He won't be ready from day one. I got the same feeling watching Dunn last year and he has been scary in terms of not living up to hype. I correspondingly hope we don't draft him.
A one way player based on what? He isnt a playmaker, yes like any player he misses defensive assignments but lets not pretend he doesnt rebound well, doesnt create more shots off the bounce for guys, plays the passing lanes well, and can block shots at a decent rate.
Which players are going to be ready day one? I can only count one Fultz. That's it. And who really cares about the hype. Jaylen had no hype and Ingram had a ton but look at what they both have produced so far.
The only guy that doesnt have very noticeable weaknesses is Fultz all the rest have sure fire question marks. Its a matter of if you want to recognize them or not.
I think Jackson more than Fultz will be ready from day one.
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Every game I have watched him he looks lost on D. He can score but he is a one way player folks.
Likely a 3 as his lack of great foot speed limits his effectiveness off the dribble, and his size and shooting fits the 3 position ...
Lacks strength for physical play at higher levels but should add strength in time …
http://www.nbadraft.net/players/jayson-tatum
He won't be ready from day one. I got the same feeling watching Dunn last year and he has been scary in terms of not living up to hype. I correspondingly hope we don't draft him.
A one way player based on what? He isnt a playmaker, yes like any player he misses defensive assignments but lets not pretend he doesnt rebound well, doesnt create more shots off the bounce for guys, plays the passing lanes well, and can block shots at a decent rate.
Which players are going to be ready day one? I can only count one Fultz. That's it. And who really cares about the hype. Jaylen had no hype and Ingram had a ton but look at what they both have produced so far.
The only guy that doesnt have very noticeable weaknesses is Fultz all the rest have sure fire question marks. Its a matter of if you want to recognize them or not.
I think Jackson more than Fultz will be ready from day one.
Ok I will give you Jackson
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I like Tatum 4th over Isaac.
No way Id take him over Jackson and the consensus seems to be the Fultz and Ball are a level ahead of him.
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It is incredible that Tatum is considered a worst case scenario pick for us. I like him a lot better than Jaylen Brown and see him as a Paul Pierce/Caron Butler type player.
JT would have gone in the top three in the past 7 drafts. This one is just particularly loaded.
Agree. I think he's a better than average NBA athlete, and the description of him needing strength is true of most prospects. He's more solidly built than Jackson, but not as athletic (few are though).
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WHY is NO ONE talking about John Collins from Wake Forest University?
He just DOMINATED Jason Tatum and Duke AT Duke!! He had 31 and 15 boards on 13-18 shooting (72.2%). Tatum had 19 and 7 on 6-11 shooting (54.5%).
Collins is the real deal!!!
Smitty77
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WHY is NO ONE talking about John Collins from Wake Forest University?
He just DOMINATED Jason Tatum and Duke AT Duke!! He had 31 and 15 boards on 13-18 shooting (72.2%). Tatum had 19 and 7 on 6-11 shooting (54.5%).
Collins is the real deal!!!
Smitty77
COLLINS is 16 in the latest Draft Express mock, so SOME PEOPLE are TALKING about him!!!!
PAY BETTER ATTENTION AND STOP SHOUTING!!!
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WHY is NO ONE talking about John Collins from Wake Forest University?
He just DOMINATED Jason Tatum and Duke AT Duke!! He had 31 and 15 boards on 13-18 shooting (72.2%). Tatum had 19 and 7 on 6-11 shooting (54.5%).
Collins is the real deal!!!
Smitty77
COLLINS is 16 in the latest Draft Express mock, so SOME PEOPLE are TALKING about him!!!!
PAY BETTER ATTENTION AND STOP SHOUTING!!!
Chill dawg!
Collins doesn't have the ceiling that Isaac or Tatum have. Let's not rank players based on one game.
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WHY is NO ONE talking about John Collins from Wake Forest University?
He just DOMINATED Jason Tatum and Duke AT Duke!! He had 31 and 15 boards on 13-18 shooting (72.2%). Tatum had 19 and 7 on 6-11 shooting (54.5%).
Collins is the real deal!!!
Smitty77
COLLINS is 16 in the latest Draft Express mock, so SOME PEOPLE are TALKING about him!!!!
PAY BETTER ATTENTION AND STOP SHOUTING!!!
First of all chilidawg, I will shout whenever and however often that I want to do so!!! Second, Collins is 16th in draftexpress.com, but only 23rd on nbadraft.net. I do keep up and pay attention probably FAR MORE than you do!!! Yes, I just shouted. Did I hurt your feelings? Do you need to go to your safe place chilidawg?:-)))
Another guy getting absolutely NO respect by your sited draftexpress.com is Caleb Swanigan who is NOT even listed in their top 60. He is JUST averaging about 19 points, 13 boards, 2.7 assists, and 1 block and shooting 54.2% and 47.5% from three and 77.7% at the line!!
It is NOT called shouting. It is called PASSION. I am SO VERY SORRY if I in some way hurt your feelings chilidawg.
Smitty77
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My feelings are just fine, just giving you a little **** for your posting style.
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WHY is NO ONE talking about John Collins from Wake Forest University?
Smitty77
because this is the Jason Tatum thread? :)
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WHY is NO ONE talking about John Collins from Wake Forest University?
He just DOMINATED Jason Tatum and Duke AT Duke!! He had 31 and 15 boards on 13-18 shooting (72.2%). Tatum had 19 and 7 on 6-11 shooting (54.5%).
Collins is the real deal!!!
Smitty77
COLLINS is 16 in the latest Draft Express mock, so SOME PEOPLE are TALKING about him!!!!
PAY BETTER ATTENTION AND STOP SHOUTING!!!
First of all chilidawg, I will shout whenever and however often that I want to do so!!! Second, Collins is 16th in draftexpress.com, but only 23rd on nbadraft.net. I do keep up and pay attention probably FAR MORE than you do!!! Yes, I just shouted. Did I hurt your feelings? Do you need to go to your safe place chilidawg?:-)))
Another guy getting absolutely NO respect by your sited draftexpress.com is Caleb Swanigan who is NOT even listed in their top 60. He is JUST averaging about 19 points, 13 boards, 2.7 assists, and 1 block and shooting 54.2% and 47.5% from three and 77.7% at the line!!
It is NOT called shouting. It is called PASSION. I am SO VERY SORRY if I in some way hurt your feelings chilidawg.
Smitty77
DraftExpress has Swanigan at #26.
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My feelings are just fine, just giving you a little **** for your posting style.
I deserve that:-))
Smitty77
P.S. What do you think of Swanigan chilidawg??
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WHY is NO ONE talking about John Collins from Wake Forest University?
He just DOMINATED Jason Tatum and Duke AT Duke!! He had 31 and 15 boards on 13-18 shooting (72.2%). Tatum had 19 and 7 on 6-11 shooting (54.5%).
Collins is the real deal!!!
Smitty77
COLLINS is 16 in the latest Draft Express mock, so SOME PEOPLE are TALKING about him!!!!
PAY BETTER ATTENTION AND STOP SHOUTING!!!
First of all chilidawg, I will shout whenever and however often that I want to do so!!! Second, Collins is 16th in draftexpress.com, but only 23rd on nbadraft.net. I do keep up and pay attention probably FAR MORE than you do!!! Yes, I just shouted. Did I hurt your feelings? Do you need to go to your safe place chilidawg?:-)))
Another guy getting absolutely NO respect by your sited draftexpress.com is Caleb Swanigan who is NOT even listed in their top 60. He is JUST averaging about 19 points, 13 boards, 2.7 assists, and 1 block and shooting 54.2% and 47.5% from three and 77.7% at the line!!
It is NOT called shouting. It is called PASSION. I am SO VERY SORRY if I in some way hurt your feelings chilidawg.
Smitty77
Swanigan (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Caleb-Swanigan-71578/) is currently #26 on DraftExpress (http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2017/list/). I don't watch enough college ball to know if he should be higher, but he is far from being left out
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WHY is NO ONE talking about John Collins from Wake Forest University?
He just DOMINATED Jason Tatum and Duke AT Duke!! He had 31 and 15 boards on 13-18 shooting (72.2%). Tatum had 19 and 7 on 6-11 shooting (54.5%).
Collins is the real deal!!!
Smitty77
COLLINS is 16 in the latest Draft Express mock, so SOME PEOPLE are TALKING about him!!!!
PAY BETTER ATTENTION AND STOP SHOUTING!!!
First of all chilidawg, I will shout whenever and however often that I want to do so!!! Second, Collins is 16th in draftexpress.com, but only 23rd on nbadraft.net. I do keep up and pay attention probably FAR MORE than you do!!! Yes, I just shouted. Did I hurt your feelings? Do you need to go to your safe place chilidawg?:-)))
Another guy getting absolutely NO respect by your sited draftexpress.com is Caleb Swanigan who is NOT even listed in their top 60. He is JUST averaging about 19 points, 13 boards, 2.7 assists, and 1 block and shooting 54.2% and 47.5% from three and 77.7% at the line!!
It is NOT called shouting. It is called PASSION. I am SO VERY SORRY if I in some way hurt your feelings chilidawg.
Smitty77
Swanigan (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Caleb-Swanigan-71578/) is currently #26 on DraftExpress (http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2017/list/). I don't watch enough college ball to know if he should be higher, but he is far from being left out
My bad bitter jim. I missed that.
Thanks buddy!!
Smitty77
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It is incredible that Tatum is considered a worst case scenario pick for us. I like him a lot better than Jaylen Brown and see him as a Paul Pierce/Caron Butler type player.
JT would have gone in the top three in the past 7 drafts. This one is just particularly loaded.
Agree. I think he's a better than average NBA athlete, and the description of him needing strength is true of most prospects. He's more solidly built than Jackson, but not as athletic (few are though).
Great points.
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In my eyes Tatum is the #2 player on my board. The separation between him and Fultz is kind of like Simmons/Ingram last season. Jackson is a close 3rd behind him. Lonzo and DSJR in the mix for 4th
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He looked good... stretch 4 at 6"8....but more of a stronger, bigger frame than Ingram.
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I love the fact that we are garunteed to get one of Fultz, Ball, Jackson, Tatum.
and if none of those guys do it for you, we can pick Jonathan Isaac, who would have maybe gone #2 last season.
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He reminds me of a slightly more athletic Nicolas Batum. I think he Tatum will be a good all around player for years to come.
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WHY is NO ONE talking about John Collins from Wake Forest University?
He just DOMINATED Jason Tatum and Duke AT Duke!! He had 31 and 15 boards on 13-18 shooting (72.2%). Tatum had 19 and 7 on 6-11 shooting (54.5%).
Collins is the real deal!!!
Smitty77
COLLINS is 16 in the latest Draft Express mock, so SOME PEOPLE are TALKING about him!!!!
PAY BETTER ATTENTION AND STOP SHOUTING!!!
Cant shoot, skinny, cant jump, cant pass
Decent work ethic , long winspan/reach, good rebounder, mobile
Pass for me
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In my eyes Tatum is the #2 player on my board. The separation between him and Fultz is kind of like Simmons/Ingram last season. Jackson is a close 3rd behind him. Lonzo and DSJR in the mix for 4th
I agree with this. After watching the Syracuse/Duke game I started thinking that Tatum could challenge for the top spot with a good tournament. He's really long, has excellent footwork and a strong bball IQ for someone his age. He's a natural born scorer and guys like that who can defend their position often have a chance to become stars.
It would be great if Jackson or Tatum improved their play and challenged for the top spot in the draft. With how many good pgs there are in the league I think it is more valuable to draft a great wing than a great guard. Bringing in a wing would also be good for roster balance. If we draft a guard, someone on the current roster has got to go. If we draft a wing that player could fit in for development minutes anywhere from 2-4.
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See the appeal of Tatum. But I like Jackson significantly more. Moves real well without the ball. Always thinking on court. Think he's a more transcendent player than Tatum.
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I just binged on Tatum highlights, I am full. Tatum>Ball.
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I just binged on Tatum highlights, I am full. Tatum>Ball.
You should watch some of the games on espn replay online
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I don't watch Tatum often, but when I do, he makes no effort on help defense. None! It's totally small sample size, but I saw this from him on two occasions. Once, he didn't run back after his teammate turned it over and just gave up the dunk. He had an opportunity for a LeBron type of catch up block and didn't even try. Another time a player got by a teammate and he was 2.5 feet away from him in the lane and the guy went up for a layup and Tatum gave zero effort to try to block the shot. It was unlikely, but not impossible, that he would've affected the shot, but the zero effort turned me off. I much prefer Josh Jackson.
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87% free throw shooter this season? Impressive. Good sign he will be efficient shooter in NBA.
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If we bottom out with 4th pick, he will likely be available. Takes a lot of the stress out of the lottery. He should be a decent NBA player.
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If we bottom out with 4th pick, he will likely be available. Takes a lot of the stress out of the lottery. He should be a decent NBA player.
I wouldnt be to sure that he does make it to 4. I think you have to be top 3 to make sure you get him.
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Close call vs Jackson
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Tatum has been real impressive all ACC tourney. I think he will be challenging for the top spot soon, he is a real impressive player.
For me my top 5 are:
1.) Tatum
2.) Fultz
3.) Jackson
4.) Ball
5.) Isaac
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Tatum has been real impressive all ACC tourney. I think he will be challenging for the top spot soon, he is a real impressive player.
For me my top 5 are:
1.) Tatum
2.) Fultz
3.) Jackson
4.) Ball
5.) Isaac
I would still take Fultz and Jackson before Tatum.
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TP Footney. Great poster so here is 500.
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If you're Ainge, you have to comfortably take him ahead of Jackson. He's the better player right now, resembles our beloved Pierce in his style, fills a need and would complement Jaylen well (in contrast to Jackson), and seems like a solid human being (in contrast to Jackson). Could rank him as high as #2 given how crazy Ball's father appears to be.
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He's the real deal. Had an excellent ACC tournament.
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If you're Ainge, you have to comfortably take him ahead of Jackson. He's the better player right now, resembles our beloved Pierce in his style, fills a need and would complement Jaylen well (in contrast to Jackson), and seems like a solid human being (in contrast to Jackson). Could rank him as high as #2 given how crazy Ball's father appears to be.
Yup though Jackson is still my choice at 2, I believe DA would take Tatum. Good size and scoring. He is also crafty on defense as much as offense by picking his spots. See a blend of Melo and Pierce in his game. His floor is probably Tobias Harris.
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Tatum has been real impressive all ACC tourney. I think he will be challenging for the top spot soon, he is a real impressive player.
For me my top 5 are:
1.) Tatum
2.) Fultz
3.) Jackson
4.) Ball
5.) Isaac
I would still take Fultz and Jackson before Tatum.
Tatums scoring versatility and above average defense and rebounding has him #1 for me. I think getting someone who can score like him would be a huge addition to our team and he fits so well with Brown.
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WHY is NO ONE talking about John Collins from Wake Forest University?
He just DOMINATED Jason Tatum and Duke AT Duke!! He had 31 and 15 boards on 13-18 shooting (72.2%). Tatum had 19 and 7 on 6-11 shooting (54.5%).
Collins is the real deal!!!
Smitty77
COLLINS is 16 in the latest Draft Express mock, so SOME PEOPLE are TALKING about him!!!!
PAY BETTER ATTENTION AND STOP SHOUTING!!!
Cant shoot, skinny, cant jump, cant pass
Decent work ethic , long winspan/reach, good rebounder, mobile
Pass for me
How much have you seen him play triboy? He has, by far, the highest PER, of ANY player on the draft board, and it is NOT even close!!!
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2017/
Smitty77
P.S. Up to #15 on Draft Express.
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WHY is NO ONE talking about John Collins from Wake Forest University?
He just DOMINATED Jason Tatum and Duke AT Duke!! He had 31 and 15 boards on 13-18 shooting (72.2%). Tatum had 19 and 7 on 6-11 shooting (54.5%).
Collins is the real deal!!!
Smitty77
COLLINS is 16 in the latest Draft Express mock, so SOME PEOPLE are TALKING about him!!!!
PAY BETTER ATTENTION AND STOP SHOUTING!!!
Cant shoot, skinny, cant jump, cant pass
Decent work ethic , long winspan/reach, good rebounder, mobile
Pass for me
62% FG and 74% at the line. This guy knows what his strengths are and plays close to them!!
Smitty77
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Tatum was NOT even the best player in the ACC Championship game OR the tourney. Colson WAS.
Smitty77
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Colson was first-team All-ACC and Tatum was third-team.
Here is what Colson did:
Notre Dame’s Colson leads all ACC players with 18 double-doubles this season, including 10 in conference play. The 6-foot-5 junior from New Bedford, Massachusetts, leads the league in rebounding at 10.4 per game and is the 10th leading scorer at 17.0 points per game. In leading the Fighting Irish to a 23-8 overall mark and a No. 3 ACC Tournament seed, Colson has posted seven 20-point, 10-rebound performances this year. All seven of those performances have come against Power 5 conference teams, including four ACC opponents.
http://www.theacc.com/news/acc-announces-all-conference-team-postseason-awards-03-05-2017
Colson was clearly the better player in the game last night.
Does he have the best NBA up-side? No!! But, I don't think Tatum is a great athlete even at the college level and that will be multiplied at the NBA level!!
Smitty77
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Tatum was NOT even the best player in the ACC Championship game OR the tourney. Colson WAS.
Smitty77
TP, Smitty. I mention him often in the Draft Prospects on TV thread.
this is what I said last night:
Bonzie Colson so far the best player on the floor against Duke in ACC Championship game halfway through the second half.
The New Bedford guy is ballin'.
EDIT: I jinxed him. Sprained his ankle with 8 min to go.....came back in after a few possessions after walking it off in the tunnel, but did nothing after that.
ND would've had a great chance to win if Bonzie didn't get hurt.
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TP Footney. Great poster so here is 500.
Thanks, KG. Much appreciated.
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The guys is a nice offensive player and an inconsistent defensive player. That is main thing that scares me about Tatum.
This video at the 4:30 mark pretty sums up his defensive lapses.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mq85pUU6hfM
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Colson was first-team All-ACC and Tatum was third-team.
Here is what Colson did:
Notre Dame’s Colson leads all ACC players with 18 double-doubles this season, including 10 in conference play. The 6-foot-5 junior from New Bedford, Massachusetts, leads the league in rebounding at 10.4 per game and is the 10th leading scorer at 17.0 points per game. In leading the Fighting Irish to a 23-8 overall mark and a No. 3 ACC Tournament seed, Colson has posted seven 20-point, 10-rebound performances this year. All seven of those performances have come against Power 5 conference teams, including four ACC opponents.
http://www.theacc.com/news/acc-announces-all-conference-team-postseason-awards-03-05-2017
Colson was clearly the better player in the game last night.
Does he have the best NBA up-side? No!! But, I don't think Tatum is a great athlete even at the college level and that will be multiplied at the NBA level!!
Smitty77
Pierce wasn't a great athlete either. Tatum is certainly a good enough athlete, especially since he'll be playing PF quite a bit. He's got a good overall skillset and doesn't rely on his athleticism. He's also stepped up to be a key cog on a very loaded Duke team.
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Colson was first-team All-ACC and Tatum was third-team.
Here is what Colson did:
Notre Dame’s Colson leads all ACC players with 18 double-doubles this season, including 10 in conference play. The 6-foot-5 junior from New Bedford, Massachusetts, leads the league in rebounding at 10.4 per game and is the 10th leading scorer at 17.0 points per game. In leading the Fighting Irish to a 23-8 overall mark and a No. 3 ACC Tournament seed, Colson has posted seven 20-point, 10-rebound performances this year. All seven of those performances have come against Power 5 conference teams, including four ACC opponents.
http://www.theacc.com/news/acc-announces-all-conference-team-postseason-awards-03-05-2017
Colson was clearly the better player in the game last night.
Does he have the best NBA up-side? No!! But, I don't think Tatum is a great athlete even at the college level and that will be multiplied at the NBA level!!
Smitty77
Pierce wasn't a great athlete either. Tatum is certainly a good enough athlete, especially since he'll be playing PF quite a bit. He's got a good overall skillset and doesn't rely on his athleticism. He's also stepped up to be a key cog on a very loaded Duke team.
That block/rebound/full court dribble/finish sequence in the last minute looked pretty f****** athletic to me.
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The guys is a nice offensive player and an inconsistent defensive player. That is main thing that scares me about Tatum.
This video at the 4:30 mark pretty sums up his defensive lapses.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mq85pUU6hfM
Defensive inconsistency is the thing that scares you? This entire team is inconsistent defensively. Anyways, inconsistency on D of a 19 year old is to be expected. Defensive ability and potential are much more important at this stage.
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Tatum was NOT even the best player in the ACC Championship game OR the tourney. Colson WAS.
Smitty77
TP, Smitty. I mention him often in the Draft Prospects on TV thread.
this is what I said last night:
Bonzie Colson so far the best player on the floor against Duke in ACC Championship game halfway through the second half.
The New Bedford guy is ballin'.
EDIT: I jinxed him. Sprained his ankle with 8 min to go.....came back in after a few possessions after walking it off in the tunnel, but did nothing after that.
ND would've had a great chance to win if Bonzie didn't get hurt.
Thanks Csfan!!
Smitty77
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Isnt his name spelled Jayson, not Jason?
Very good prospect, very high on my list.
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Tatum skillset offsets his athleticism.
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Colson was first-team All-ACC and Tatum was third-team.
Here is what Colson did:
Notre Dame’s Colson leads all ACC players with 18 double-doubles this season, including 10 in conference play. The 6-foot-5 junior from New Bedford, Massachusetts, leads the league in rebounding at 10.4 per game and is the 10th leading scorer at 17.0 points per game. In leading the Fighting Irish to a 23-8 overall mark and a No. 3 ACC Tournament seed, Colson has posted seven 20-point, 10-rebound performances this year. All seven of those performances have come against Power 5 conference teams, including four ACC opponents.
http://www.theacc.com/news/acc-announces-all-conference-team-postseason-awards-03-05-2017
Colson was clearly the better player in the game last night.
Does he have the best NBA up-side? No!! But, I don't think Tatum is a great athlete even at the college level and that will be multiplied at the NBA level!!
Smitty77
Pierce wasn't a great athlete either. Tatum is certainly a good enough athlete, especially since he'll be playing PF quite a bit. He's got a good overall skillset and doesn't rely on his athleticism. He's also stepped up to be a key cog on a very loaded Duke team.
That block/rebound/full court dribble/finish sequence in the last minute looked pretty f****** athletic to me.
Who was the block against? Wow, a 6' 8" player that can dunk on an OPEN breakaway:-)) Truly impressive. He is NOT a great athlete, irregardless what a one minute segment might tell you.
Smitty77
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Watch the last 3 minutes, Tatum just dominates down the stretch. And he IS athletic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjeLHeqYsu8
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Colson was first-team All-ACC and Tatum was third-team.
Here is what Colson did:
Notre Dame’s Colson leads all ACC players with 18 double-doubles this season, including 10 in conference play. The 6-foot-5 junior from New Bedford, Massachusetts, leads the league in rebounding at 10.4 per game and is the 10th leading scorer at 17.0 points per game. In leading the Fighting Irish to a 23-8 overall mark and a No. 3 ACC Tournament seed, Colson has posted seven 20-point, 10-rebound performances this year. All seven of those performances have come against Power 5 conference teams, including four ACC opponents.
http://www.theacc.com/news/acc-announces-all-conference-team-postseason-awards-03-05-2017
Colson was clearly the better player in the game last night.
Does he have the best NBA up-side? No!! But, I don't think Tatum is a great athlete even at the college level and that will be multiplied at the NBA level!!
Smitty77
Pierce wasn't a great athlete either. Tatum is certainly a good enough athlete, especially since he'll be playing PF quite a bit. He's got a good overall skillset and doesn't rely on his athleticism. He's also stepped up to be a key cog on a very loaded Duke team.
That block/rebound/full court dribble/finish sequence in the last minute looked pretty f****** athletic to me.
Who was the block against? Wow, a 6' 8" player that can dunk on an OPEN breakaway:-)) Truly impressive. He is NOT a great athlete, irregardless what a one minute segment might tell you.
Smitty77
Ok, so what does that make Isaac? He got 5 points and lost to Notre Dame, Tatum scored 19 and led his team to the title. Isaac wasn't even good enough to score 19 in 2 games. Tatum > Isaac, now and forever.
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Colson was first-team All-ACC and Tatum was third-team.
Here is what Colson did:
Notre Dame’s Colson leads all ACC players with 18 double-doubles this season, including 10 in conference play. The 6-foot-5 junior from New Bedford, Massachusetts, leads the league in rebounding at 10.4 per game and is the 10th leading scorer at 17.0 points per game. In leading the Fighting Irish to a 23-8 overall mark and a No. 3 ACC Tournament seed, Colson has posted seven 20-point, 10-rebound performances this year. All seven of those performances have come against Power 5 conference teams, including four ACC opponents.
http://www.theacc.com/news/acc-announces-all-conference-team-postseason-awards-03-05-2017
Colson was clearly the better player in the game last night.
Does he have the best NBA up-side? No!! But, I don't think Tatum is a great athlete even at the college level and that will be multiplied at the NBA level!!
Smitty77
Pierce wasn't a great athlete either. Tatum is certainly a good enough athlete, especially since he'll be playing PF quite a bit. He's got a good overall skillset and doesn't rely on his athleticism. He's also stepped up to be a key cog on a very loaded Duke team.
That block/rebound/full court dribble/finish sequence in the last minute looked pretty f****** athletic to me.
Who was the block against? Wow, a 6' 8" player that can dunk on an OPEN breakaway:-)) Truly impressive. He is NOT a great athlete, irregardless what a one minute segment might tell you.
Smitty77
So we should downgrade him because he isnt Jaylen Brown athletic?
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Colson was first-team All-ACC and Tatum was third-team.
Here is what Colson did:
Notre Dame’s Colson leads all ACC players with 18 double-doubles this season, including 10 in conference play. The 6-foot-5 junior from New Bedford, Massachusetts, leads the league in rebounding at 10.4 per game and is the 10th leading scorer at 17.0 points per game. In leading the Fighting Irish to a 23-8 overall mark and a No. 3 ACC Tournament seed, Colson has posted seven 20-point, 10-rebound performances this year. All seven of those performances have come against Power 5 conference teams, including four ACC opponents.
http://www.theacc.com/news/acc-announces-all-conference-team-postseason-awards-03-05-2017
Colson was clearly the better player in the game last night.
Does he have the best NBA up-side? No!! But, I don't think Tatum is a great athlete even at the college level and that will be multiplied at the NBA level!!
Smitty77
Pierce wasn't a great athlete either. Tatum is certainly a good enough athlete, especially since he'll be playing PF quite a bit. He's got a good overall skillset and doesn't rely on his athleticism. He's also stepped up to be a key cog on a very loaded Duke team.
That block/rebound/full court dribble/finish sequence in the last minute looked pretty f****** athletic to me.
Who was the block against? Wow, a 6' 8" player that can dunk on an OPEN breakaway:-)) Truly impressive. He is NOT a great athlete, irregardless what a one minute segment might tell you.
Smitty77
Ok, so what does that make Isaac? He got 5 points and lost to Notre Dame, Tatum scored 19 and led his team to the title. Isaac wasn't even good enough to score 19 in 2 games. Tatum > Isaac, now and forever.
If I had a standing O meme it would be for this post.
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One thing about Tatum that I'd like to point out is that he put on a lot of weight between last Spring to the start of this season. That leads me to believe he can continue doing so and he has the frame for it.
Here's a picture of him taken March 30, 2016 going against Josh Jackson.
(http://frsports-bucket-0001.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2016/04/09093801/164033016_1449_McDonalds_Boys_Game.jpg)
He's a late bloomer when it comes to musclarity. Continuing to gain muscle is only going to help him.
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Colson was first-team All-ACC and Tatum was third-team.
Here is what Colson did:
Notre Dame’s Colson leads all ACC players with 18 double-doubles this season, including 10 in conference play. The 6-foot-5 junior from New Bedford, Massachusetts, leads the league in rebounding at 10.4 per game and is the 10th leading scorer at 17.0 points per game. In leading the Fighting Irish to a 23-8 overall mark and a No. 3 ACC Tournament seed, Colson has posted seven 20-point, 10-rebound performances this year. All seven of those performances have come against Power 5 conference teams, including four ACC opponents.
http://www.theacc.com/news/acc-announces-all-conference-team-postseason-awards-03-05-2017
Colson was clearly the better player in the game last night.
Does he have the best NBA up-side? No!! But, I don't think Tatum is a great athlete even at the college level and that will be multiplied at the NBA level!!
Smitty77
Pierce wasn't a great athlete either. Tatum is certainly a good enough athlete, especially since he'll be playing PF quite a bit. He's got a good overall skillset and doesn't rely on his athleticism. He's also stepped up to be a key cog on a very loaded Duke team.
That block/rebound/full court dribble/finish sequence in the last minute looked pretty f****** athletic to me.
Who was the block against? Wow, a 6' 8" player that can dunk on an OPEN breakaway:-)) Truly impressive. He is NOT a great athlete, irregardless what a one minute segment might tell you.
Smitty77
So we should downgrade him because he isnt Jaylen Brown athletic?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCbIjcHgI6s
hes no Jaylen Brown but he looked pretty athletic last night.
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Colson was first-team All-ACC and Tatum was third-team.
Here is what Colson did:
Notre Dame’s Colson leads all ACC players with 18 double-doubles this season, including 10 in conference play. The 6-foot-5 junior from New Bedford, Massachusetts, leads the league in rebounding at 10.4 per game and is the 10th leading scorer at 17.0 points per game. In leading the Fighting Irish to a 23-8 overall mark and a No. 3 ACC Tournament seed, Colson has posted seven 20-point, 10-rebound performances this year. All seven of those performances have come against Power 5 conference teams, including four ACC opponents.
http://www.theacc.com/news/acc-announces-all-conference-team-postseason-awards-03-05-2017
Colson was clearly the better player in the game last night.
Does he have the best NBA up-side? No!! But, I don't think Tatum is a great athlete even at the college level and that will be multiplied at the NBA level!!
Smitty77
Pierce wasn't a great athlete either. Tatum is certainly a good enough athlete, especially since he'll be playing PF quite a bit. He's got a good overall skillset and doesn't rely on his athleticism. He's also stepped up to be a key cog on a very loaded Duke team.
That block/rebound/full court dribble/finish sequence in the last minute looked pretty f****** athletic to me.
Who was the block against? Wow, a 6' 8" player that can dunk on an OPEN breakaway:-)) Truly impressive. He is NOT a great athlete, irregardless what a one minute segment might tell you.
Smitty77
So we should downgrade him because he isnt Jaylen Brown athletic?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCbIjcHgI6s
hes no Jaylen Brown but he looked pretty athletic last night.
Tatum has been #2 on my board since early Jan. I think on lower levels he shared some of the same issues Jaylen did but works really hard on his game which I think if you bring him here he could give you what Jaylen is giving you now.
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Colson was first-team All-ACC and Tatum was third-team.
Here is what Colson did:
Notre Dame’s Colson leads all ACC players with 18 double-doubles this season, including 10 in conference play. The 6-foot-5 junior from New Bedford, Massachusetts, leads the league in rebounding at 10.4 per game and is the 10th leading scorer at 17.0 points per game. In leading the Fighting Irish to a 23-8 overall mark and a No. 3 ACC Tournament seed, Colson has posted seven 20-point, 10-rebound performances this year. All seven of those performances have come against Power 5 conference teams, including four ACC opponents.
http://www.theacc.com/news/acc-announces-all-conference-team-postseason-awards-03-05-2017
Colson was clearly the better player in the game last night.
Does he have the best NBA up-side? No!! But, I don't think Tatum is a great athlete even at the college level and that will be multiplied at the NBA level!!
Smitty77
Pierce wasn't a great athlete either. Tatum is certainly a good enough athlete, especially since he'll be playing PF quite a bit. He's got a good overall skillset and doesn't rely on his athleticism. He's also stepped up to be a key cog on a very loaded Duke team.
That block/rebound/full court dribble/finish sequence in the last minute looked pretty f****** athletic to me.
Who was the block against? Wow, a 6' 8" player that can dunk on an OPEN breakaway:-)) Truly impressive. He is NOT a great athlete, irregardless what a one minute segment might tell you.
Smitty77
So we should downgrade him because he isnt Jaylen Brown athletic?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCbIjcHgI6s
hes no Jaylen Brown but he looked pretty athletic last night.
Tatum has been #2 on my board since early Jan. I think on lower levels he shared some of the same issues Jaylen did but works really hard on his game which I think if you bring him here he could give you what Jaylen is giving you now.
I had him behind Jackson all year, but with Jacksons off court stuff and Tatum playing really well down the stretch(and being younger and having more potential to play PF) I think they are a tossup now.
Id go Fultz Tatum/Jackson Ball
So yeah, Ill be dissapointed if we get Lonzo Ball. We are ridiculously spoiled.
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One thing about Tatum that I'd like to point out is that he put on a lot of weight between last Spring to the start of this season. That leads me to believe he can continue doing so and he has the frame for it.
Here's a picture of him taken March 30, 2016 going against Josh Jackson.
(http://frsports-bucket-0001.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2016/04/09093801/164033016_1449_McDonalds_Boys_Game.jpg)
He's a late bloomer when it comes to musclarity. Continuing to gain muscle is only going to help him.
When I saw Tatum as a junior in HS I wondered how he would turn out. He was very good but rail thin. I mean rail thin. His body looked more like Rip Hamilton than what it does today. Anyways over the last two years he has added about 15 - 20 lbs. He can still add to his frame. Many of his finishing issues are strength issues. As he has gotten stronger he has gotten better.
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Colson was first-team All-ACC and Tatum was third-team.
Here is what Colson did:
Notre Dame’s Colson leads all ACC players with 18 double-doubles this season, including 10 in conference play. The 6-foot-5 junior from New Bedford, Massachusetts, leads the league in rebounding at 10.4 per game and is the 10th leading scorer at 17.0 points per game. In leading the Fighting Irish to a 23-8 overall mark and a No. 3 ACC Tournament seed, Colson has posted seven 20-point, 10-rebound performances this year. All seven of those performances have come against Power 5 conference teams, including four ACC opponents.
http://www.theacc.com/news/acc-announces-all-conference-team-postseason-awards-03-05-2017
Colson was clearly the better player in the game last night.
Does he have the best NBA up-side? No!! But, I don't think Tatum is a great athlete even at the college level and that will be multiplied at the NBA level!!
Smitty77
Pierce wasn't a great athlete either. Tatum is certainly a good enough athlete, especially since he'll be playing PF quite a bit. He's got a good overall skillset and doesn't rely on his athleticism. He's also stepped up to be a key cog on a very loaded Duke team.
That block/rebound/full court dribble/finish sequence in the last minute looked pretty f****** athletic to me.
Who was the block against? Wow, a 6' 8" player that can dunk on an OPEN breakaway:-)) Truly impressive. He is NOT a great athlete, irregardless what a one minute segment might tell you.
Smitty77
So we should downgrade him because he isnt Jaylen Brown athletic?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCbIjcHgI6s
hes no Jaylen Brown but he looked pretty athletic last night.
Tatum has been #2 on my board since early Jan. I think on lower levels he shared some of the same issues Jaylen did but works really hard on his game which I think if you bring him here he could give you what Jaylen is giving you now.
I had him behind Jackson all year, but with Jacksons off court stuff and Tatum playing really well down the stretch(and being younger and having more potential to play PF) I think they are a tossup now.
Id go Fultz Tatum/Jackson Ball
So yeah, Ill be dissapointed if we get Lonzo Ball. We are ridiculously spoiled.
Im not going to count Jackson's driving issues against him. I also have no problem with people putting Jackson ahead of Tatum. When the two have matched up against each other, Jackson has always been the more aggressive player with defense that has bothered Tatum.
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Colson was first-team All-ACC and Tatum was third-team.
Here is what Colson did:
Notre Dame’s Colson leads all ACC players with 18 double-doubles this season, including 10 in conference play. The 6-foot-5 junior from New Bedford, Massachusetts, leads the league in rebounding at 10.4 per game and is the 10th leading scorer at 17.0 points per game. In leading the Fighting Irish to a 23-8 overall mark and a No. 3 ACC Tournament seed, Colson has posted seven 20-point, 10-rebound performances this year. All seven of those performances have come against Power 5 conference teams, including four ACC opponents.
http://www.theacc.com/news/acc-announces-all-conference-team-postseason-awards-03-05-2017
Colson was clearly the better player in the game last night.
Does he have the best NBA up-side? No!! But, I don't think Tatum is a great athlete even at the college level and that will be multiplied at the NBA level!!
Smitty77
Pierce wasn't a great athlete either. Tatum is certainly a good enough athlete, especially since he'll be playing PF quite a bit. He's got a good overall skillset and doesn't rely on his athleticism. He's also stepped up to be a key cog on a very loaded Duke team.
That block/rebound/full court dribble/finish sequence in the last minute looked pretty f****** athletic to me.
Who was the block against? Wow, a 6' 8" player that can dunk on an OPEN breakaway:-)) Truly impressive. He is NOT a great athlete, irregardless what a one minute segment might tell you.
Smitty77
So we should downgrade him because he isnt Jaylen Brown athletic?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCbIjcHgI6s
hes no Jaylen Brown but he looked pretty athletic last night.
Tatum has been #2 on my board since early Jan. I think on lower levels he shared some of the same issues Jaylen did but works really hard on his game which I think if you bring him here he could give you what Jaylen is giving you now.
I had him behind Jackson all year, but with Jacksons off court stuff and Tatum playing really well down the stretch(and being younger and having more potential to play PF) I think they are a tossup now.
Id go Fultz Tatum/Jackson Ball
So yeah, Ill be dissapointed if we get Lonzo Ball. We are ridiculously spoiled.
Im not going to count Jackson's driving issues against him. I also have no problem with people putting Jackson ahead of Tatum. When the two have matched up against each other, Jackson has always been the more aggressive player with defense that has bothered Tatum.
I love Jackson. I have him #2, but there is a lot more to be worried about other than his driving ability.
He kicked the Edited. Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. out of someone car and he wasnt suspended for poor driving.
I get not putting much weight into the off court stuff, but you have to count it against him.
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I love both Players. Jackson's off court crazyness concerns me much more than Balls father.
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Colson was first-team All-ACC and Tatum was third-team.
Here is what Colson did:
Notre Dame’s Colson leads all ACC players with 18 double-doubles this season, including 10 in conference play. The 6-foot-5 junior from New Bedford, Massachusetts, leads the league in rebounding at 10.4 per game and is the 10th leading scorer at 17.0 points per game. In leading the Fighting Irish to a 23-8 overall mark and a No. 3 ACC Tournament seed, Colson has posted seven 20-point, 10-rebound performances this year. All seven of those performances have come against Power 5 conference teams, including four ACC opponents.
http://www.theacc.com/news/acc-announces-all-conference-team-postseason-awards-03-05-2017
Colson was clearly the better player in the game last night.
Does he have the best NBA up-side? No!! But, I don't think Tatum is a great athlete even at the college level and that will be multiplied at the NBA level!!
Smitty77
Pierce wasn't a great athlete either. Tatum is certainly a good enough athlete, especially since he'll be playing PF quite a bit. He's got a good overall skillset and doesn't rely on his athleticism. He's also stepped up to be a key cog on a very loaded Duke team.
That block/rebound/full court dribble/finish sequence in the last minute looked pretty f****** athletic to me.
Who was the block against? Wow, a 6' 8" player that can dunk on an OPEN breakaway:-)) Truly impressive. He is NOT a great athlete, irregardless what a one minute segment might tell you.
Smitty77
So we should downgrade him because he isnt Jaylen Brown athletic?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCbIjcHgI6s
hes no Jaylen Brown but he looked pretty athletic last night.
Tatum has been #2 on my board since early Jan. I think on lower levels he shared some of the same issues Jaylen did but works really hard on his game which I think if you bring him here he could give you what Jaylen is giving you now.
I had him behind Jackson all year, but with Jacksons off court stuff and Tatum playing really well down the stretch(and being younger and having more potential to play PF) I think they are a tossup now.
Id go Fultz Tatum/Jackson Ball
So yeah, Ill be dissapointed if we get Lonzo Ball. We are ridiculously spoiled.
Im not going to count Jackson's driving issues against him. I also have no problem with people putting Jackson ahead of Tatum. When the two have matched up against each other, Jackson has always been the more aggressive player with defense that has bothered Tatum.
I love Jackson. I have him #2, but there is a lot more to be worried about other than his driving ability.
He kicked the **** out of someone car and he wasnt suspended for poor driving.
I get not putting much weight into the off court stuff, but you have to count it against him.
I guess I should say the things that i have read (I havent read about the incident you mentioned) Im not putting too much weight into it. There are on court things that I give pause to but overall I think he is a very good prospect.
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Colson was first-team All-ACC and Tatum was third-team.
Here is what Colson did:
Notre Dame’s Colson leads all ACC players with 18 double-doubles this season, including 10 in conference play. The 6-foot-5 junior from New Bedford, Massachusetts, leads the league in rebounding at 10.4 per game and is the 10th leading scorer at 17.0 points per game. In leading the Fighting Irish to a 23-8 overall mark and a No. 3 ACC Tournament seed, Colson has posted seven 20-point, 10-rebound performances this year. All seven of those performances have come against Power 5 conference teams, including four ACC opponents.
http://www.theacc.com/news/acc-announces-all-conference-team-postseason-awards-03-05-2017
Colson was clearly the better player in the game last night.
Does he have the best NBA up-side? No!! But, I don't think Tatum is a great athlete even at the college level and that will be multiplied at the NBA level!!
Smitty77
Pierce wasn't a great athlete either. Tatum is certainly a good enough athlete, especially since he'll be playing PF quite a bit. He's got a good overall skillset and doesn't rely on his athleticism. He's also stepped up to be a key cog on a very loaded Duke team.
That block/rebound/full court dribble/finish sequence in the last minute looked pretty f****** athletic to me.
Who was the block against? Wow, a 6' 8" player that can dunk on an OPEN breakaway:-)) Truly impressive. He is NOT a great athlete, irregardless what a one minute segment might tell you.
Smitty77
Ok, so what does that make Isaac? He got 5 points and lost to Notre Dame, Tatum scored 19 and led his team to the title. Isaac wasn't even good enough to score 19 in 2 games. Tatum > Isaac, now and forever.
Even I, perhaps the BIGGEST Isaac supporter, would put him below Tatum now after Jonathan seemingly hit the wall about 10 to 12 games ago. I still say that Isaac has a bigger up side and that Tatum will likely be a disappointing pick for whoever takes him in the top 5.
Smitty77
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Colson was first-team All-ACC and Tatum was third-team.
Here is what Colson did:
Notre Dame’s Colson leads all ACC players with 18 double-doubles this season, including 10 in conference play. The 6-foot-5 junior from New Bedford, Massachusetts, leads the league in rebounding at 10.4 per game and is the 10th leading scorer at 17.0 points per game. In leading the Fighting Irish to a 23-8 overall mark and a No. 3 ACC Tournament seed, Colson has posted seven 20-point, 10-rebound performances this year. All seven of those performances have come against Power 5 conference teams, including four ACC opponents.
http://www.theacc.com/news/acc-announces-all-conference-team-postseason-awards-03-05-2017
Colson was clearly the better player in the game last night.
Does he have the best NBA up-side? No!! But, I don't think Tatum is a great athlete even at the college level and that will be multiplied at the NBA level!!
Smitty77
Pierce wasn't a great athlete either. Tatum is certainly a good enough athlete, especially since he'll be playing PF quite a bit. He's got a good overall skillset and doesn't rely on his athleticism. He's also stepped up to be a key cog on a very loaded Duke team.
That block/rebound/full court dribble/finish sequence in the last minute looked pretty f****** athletic to me.
Who was the block against? Wow, a 6' 8" player that can dunk on an OPEN breakaway:-)) Truly impressive. He is NOT a great athlete, irregardless what a one minute segment might tell you.
Smitty77
So we should downgrade him because he isnt Jaylen Brown athletic?
Most teams in the top 5 draft for up side. We are in an unusual situation in that our window is limited and we might need to take the player most ready to contribute now.
Smitty77
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Tatum is a tad too slow for my taste
He is adequate defender at the ncaa level but looks like will have trouble staying in front of quicker players/guards
half the year was just so passive... but finished well (MM tourney TBD)
Josh Jackson is a better prospect imo.... better all around stats, except FT percentage
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Colson was first-team All-ACC and Tatum was third-team.
Here is what Colson did:
Notre Dame’s Colson leads all ACC players with 18 double-doubles this season, including 10 in conference play. The 6-foot-5 junior from New Bedford, Massachusetts, leads the league in rebounding at 10.4 per game and is the 10th leading scorer at 17.0 points per game. In leading the Fighting Irish to a 23-8 overall mark and a No. 3 ACC Tournament seed, Colson has posted seven 20-point, 10-rebound performances this year. All seven of those performances have come against Power 5 conference teams, including four ACC opponents.
http://www.theacc.com/news/acc-announces-all-conference-team-postseason-awards-03-05-2017
Colson was clearly the better player in the game last night.
Does he have the best NBA up-side? No!! But, I don't think Tatum is a great athlete even at the college level and that will be multiplied at the NBA level!!
Smitty77
Pierce wasn't a great athlete either. Tatum is certainly a good enough athlete, especially since he'll be playing PF quite a bit. He's got a good overall skillset and doesn't rely on his athleticism. He's also stepped up to be a key cog on a very loaded Duke team.
That block/rebound/full court dribble/finish sequence in the last minute looked pretty f****** athletic to me.
Who was the block against? Wow, a 6' 8" player that can dunk on an OPEN breakaway:-)) Truly impressive. He is NOT a great athlete, irregardless what a one minute segment might tell you.
Smitty77
Ok, so what does that make Isaac? He got 5 points and lost to Notre Dame, Tatum scored 19 and led his team to the title. Isaac wasn't even good enough to score 19 in 2 games. Tatum > Isaac, now and forever.
Even I, perhaps the BIGGEST Isaac supporter, would put him below Tatum now after Jonathan seemingly hit the wall about 10 to 12 games ago. I still say that Isaac has a bigger up side and that Tatum will likely be a disappointing pick for whoever takes him in the top 5.
Smitty77
I dont see the great appeal of Isaac. Good defender but doesnt show enough to say he will be anything more than a role player. Doesnt create that well for himself and certainly not for others. Very passive. To say people will be disappointed with Tatum if he goes top 5 is rather interesting because people have a much better idea of what they are getting with him than Isaac.
And our window isnt small. Its barely open. You take the best possible player with the pick if you keep it. Riding IT can only take you so far. Im not willing to say that we have an open window that we must do something now.
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Tatum is a tad too slow for my taste
He is adequate defender at the ncaa level but looks like will have trouble staying in front of quicker players/guards
half the year was just so passive... but finished well (MM tourney TBD)
Josh Jackson is a better prospect imo.... better all around stats, except FT percentage
At what point was Tatum passive? Thats totally made up.
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Tatum is a tad too slow for my taste
He is adequate defender at the ncaa level but looks like will have trouble staying in front of quicker players/guards
half the year was just so passive... but finished well (MM tourney TBD)
Josh Jackson is a better prospect imo.... better all around stats, except FT percentage
At what point was Tatum passive? Thats totally made up.
look at his game blogs
look a his many 1st half no shows
and these were against mediocre teams
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/4065648/jayson-tatum
between Sat 12/31 and 2/5/2017
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Tatum poor pick n roll defense...and this is not the one time this happene
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1vwEar0WjA
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Tatum is a tad too slow for my taste
He is adequate defender at the ncaa level but looks like will have trouble staying in front of quicker players/guards
half the year was just so passive... but finished well (MM tourney TBD)
Josh Jackson is a better prospect imo.... better all around stats, except FT percentage
At what point was Tatum passive? Thats totally made up.
look at his game blogs
look a his many 1st half no shows
and these were against mediocre teams
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/4065648/jayson-tatum
between Sat 12/31 and 2/5/2017
he scored double figures in all but 3 games this season.
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Tatum is a tad too slow for my taste
He is adequate defender at the ncaa level but looks like will have trouble staying in front of quicker players/guards
half the year was just so passive... but finished well (MM tourney TBD)
Josh Jackson is a better prospect imo.... better all around stats, except FT percentage
At what point was Tatum passive? Thats totally made up.
look at his game blogs
look a his many 1st half no shows
and these were against mediocre teams
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/4065648/jayson-tatum
between Sat 12/31 and 2/5/2017
he scored double figures in all but 3 games this season.
yes, but how many games did Duke lose this season?
I'm being a little critical here,....but compare Tatum to Jackson...and Jackson is the more complete player, more explosive and helped his team pretty much lock up the best record
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Tatum is a tad too slow for my taste
He is adequate defender at the ncaa level but looks like will have trouble staying in front of quicker players/guards
half the year was just so passive... but finished well (MM tourney TBD)
Josh Jackson is a better prospect imo.... better all around stats, except FT percentage
At what point was Tatum passive? Thats totally made up.
look at his game blogs
look a his many 1st half no shows
and these were against mediocre teams
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/4065648/jayson-tatum
between Sat 12/31 and 2/5/2017
he scored double figures in all but 3 games this season.
yes, but how many games did Duke lose this season?
I'm being a little critical here,....but compare Tatum to Jackson...and Jackson is the more complete player, more explosive and helped his team pretty much lock up the best record
In the stretch you highlight?
4 times.
scored 18 in a loss to virginia Tech
scored 21 in a loss to FSU
scored 11 in a loss to Louisville
scored 16 (9 boards) in a loss to NC state
average of 16.5 points per game.
I also prefer Jackson, but lets not forget, Duke had their coach out for a while, had that disastrous situation with Grayson Allen, had half their team injured, they play in the toughest conference in college and when Josh Jackson was busy getting himself suspended, Tatum dominated the ACC tournament beating Louisville(2 seed) UNC(1 seed) and Notre Dame(5 seed) on consecutive days.
plus Tatum is a year younger.
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Triboy I agree with you that Jackson a better pro prospect but you lose credibility when you try to make this point by disparaging Tatum's athleticism and stats. Tatum should be a very good pro.
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Tatum is a very very good prospect.
If he ended up the best pro in this draft, I would not be shocked.
He can shoot, create his own offense, rebound-all at an above average rate.
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Triboy I agree with you that Jackson a better pro prospect but you lose credibility when you try to make this point by disparaging Tatum's athleticism and stats. Tatum should be a very good pro.
I agree with this. When you start making things up out of the thin blue sky you lose credibility. Both Jackson and Tatum are known prospects. They are both fairly equal prospects. Making things up Tatum's aggressiveness is totally unneccessary. Not being aggressive in a few 1st halfs is not like he disappeared altogether. If aything he was over aggressive early in the season.
We get it you like Jackson the most. I like Tatum as the 2nd best prospect and i dont understand why people like Isaac more than either prospect but i dont make up things about either prospect to make Tatum look better. All players are what they are and all you can do is look at the player to see how they have progressed over time.
Lets not make up things to try and prop up guys
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Triboy I agree with you that Jackson a better pro prospect but you lose credibility when you try to make this point by disparaging Tatum's athleticism and stats. Tatum should be a very good pro.
I agree with this. When you start making things up out of the thin blue sky you lose credibility. Both Jackson and Tatum are known prospects. They are both fairly equal prospects. Making things up Tatum's aggressiveness is totally unneccessary. Not being aggressive in a few 1st halfs is not like he disappeared altogether. If aything he was over aggressive early in the season.
We get it you like Jackson the most. I like Tatum as the 2nd best prospect and i dont understand why people like Isaac more than either prospect but i dont make up things about either prospect to make Tatum look better. All players are what they are and all you can do is look at the player to see how they have progressed over time.
Lets not make up things to try and prop up guys
I like Isaac more for OUR team. He is a big man that can block shots and there is NO ONE in the country that can guard one on one like him, especially with his length. Mark it down, he will be a GREAT NBA player!! It may take 1-3 years, but he WILL be SPECIAL. I will gladly eat those words in 3.5 years!!!!
Smitty77
P.S. I don't know how anyone can compare the athleticism of Tatum to Jackson. Not even close.
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Tatum is a tad too slow for my taste
He is adequate defender at the ncaa level but looks like will have trouble staying in front of quicker players/guards
half the year was just so passive... but finished well (MM tourney TBD)
Josh Jackson is a better prospect imo.... better all around stats, except FT percentage
At what point was Tatum passive? Thats totally made up.
look at his game blogs
look a his many 1st half no shows
and these were against mediocre teams
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/4065648/jayson-tatum
between Sat 12/31 and 2/5/2017
he scored double figures in all but 3 games this season.
yes, but how many games did Duke lose this season?
If you're going by this reasoning, Fultz is a second round pick. ;)
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Triboy I agree with you that Jackson a better pro prospect but you lose credibility when you try to make this point by disparaging Tatum's athleticism and stats. Tatum should be a very good pro.
I agree with this. When you start making things up out of the thin blue sky you lose credibility. Both Jackson and Tatum are known prospects. They are both fairly equal prospects. Making things up Tatum's aggressiveness is totally unneccessary. Not being aggressive in a few 1st halfs is not like he disappeared altogether. If aything he was over aggressive early in the season.
We get it you like Jackson the most. I like Tatum as the 2nd best prospect and i dont understand why people like Isaac more than either prospect but i dont make up things about either prospect to make Tatum look better. All players are what they are and all you can do is look at the player to see how they have progressed over time.
Lets not make up things to try and prop up guys
I like Isaac more for OUR team. He is a big man that can block shots and there is NO ONE in the country that can guard one on one like him, especially with his length. Mark it down, he will be a GREAT NBA player!! It may take 1-3 years, but he WILL be SPECIAL. I will gladly eat those words in 3.5 years!!!!
Smitty77
P.S. I don't know how anyone can compare the athleticism of Tatum to Jackson. Not even close.
Jackson is a much better athlete, but lets not act like Tatum is a bad athlete. For a player with his size he is pretty athletic and will be no worse than a good NBA athlete.
Also where is Isaac in your rankings? 2nd? 3rd?
blocks and steals arent that important, but Tatum averages 1.1 steas 1.3 block. Isaac: 1.1 and 1.5
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Triboy I agree with you that Jackson a better pro prospect but you lose credibility when you try to make this point by disparaging Tatum's athleticism and stats. Tatum should be a very good pro.
I agree with this. When you start making things up out of the thin blue sky you lose credibility. Both Jackson and Tatum are known prospects. They are both fairly equal prospects. Making things up Tatum's aggressiveness is totally unneccessary. Not being aggressive in a few 1st halfs is not like he disappeared altogether. If aything he was over aggressive early in the season.
We get it you like Jackson the most. I like Tatum as the 2nd best prospect and i dont understand why people like Isaac more than either prospect but i dont make up things about either prospect to make Tatum look better. All players are what they are and all you can do is look at the player to see how they have progressed over time.
Lets not make up things to try and prop up guys
I like Isaac more for OUR team. He is a big man that can block shots and there is NO ONE in the country that can guard one on one like him, especially with his length. Mark it down, he will be a GREAT NBA player!! It may take 1-3 years, but he WILL be SPECIAL. I will gladly eat those words in 3.5 years!!!!
Smitty77
P.S. I don't know how anyone can compare the athleticism of Tatum to Jackson. Not even close.
I see where we differ. I dont look at Isaac as a big man at all. I look at him more as a tall wing with great length. I think he is going to be a much better defensive player than offensive player. I think he will continue to be a one dribble pull up spot up shooting guy.
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Triboy I agree with you that Jackson a better pro prospect but you lose credibility when you try to make this point by disparaging Tatum's athleticism and stats. Tatum should be a very good pro.
I agree with this. When you start making things up out of the thin blue sky you lose credibility. Both Jackson and Tatum are known prospects. They are both fairly equal prospects. Making things up Tatum's aggressiveness is totally unneccessary. Not being aggressive in a few 1st halfs is not like he disappeared altogether. If aything he was over aggressive early in the season.
We get it you like Jackson the most. I like Tatum as the 2nd best prospect and i dont understand why people like Isaac more than either prospect but i dont make up things about either prospect to make Tatum look better. All players are what they are and all you can do is look at the player to see how they have progressed over time.
Lets not make up things to try and prop up guys
I like Isaac more for OUR team. He is a big man that can block shots and there is NO ONE in the country that can guard one on one like him, especially with his length. Mark it down, he will be a GREAT NBA player!! It may take 1-3 years, but he WILL be SPECIAL. I will gladly eat those words in 3.5 years!!!!
Smitty77
P.S. I don't know how anyone can compare the athleticism of Tatum to Jackson. Not even close.
Jackson is a much better athlete, but lets not act like Tatum is a bad athlete. For a player with his size he is pretty athletic and will be no worse than a good NBA athlete.
Also where is Isaac in your rankings? 2nd? 3rd?
blocks and steals arent that important, but Tatum averages 1.1 steas 1.3 block. Isaac: 1.1 and 1.5
I am going by my viewing games and watching his perimeter D. FAR better than anything Tatum could do, due to athletic ability, height, reach, wingspan, and quickness.
Smitty77
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Triboy I agree with you that Jackson a better pro prospect but you lose credibility when you try to make this point by disparaging Tatum's athleticism and stats. Tatum should be a very good pro.
I agree with this. When you start making things up out of the thin blue sky you lose credibility. Both Jackson and Tatum are known prospects. They are both fairly equal prospects. Making things up Tatum's aggressiveness is totally unneccessary. Not being aggressive in a few 1st halfs is not like he disappeared altogether. If aything he was over aggressive early in the season.
We get it you like Jackson the most. I like Tatum as the 2nd best prospect and i dont understand why people like Isaac more than either prospect but i dont make up things about either prospect to make Tatum look better. All players are what they are and all you can do is look at the player to see how they have progressed over time.
Lets not make up things to try and prop up guys
I like Isaac more for OUR team. He is a big man that can block shots and there is NO ONE in the country that can guard one on one like him, especially with his length. Mark it down, he will be a GREAT NBA player!! It may take 1-3 years, but he WILL be SPECIAL. I will gladly eat those words in 3.5 years!!!!
Smitty77
P.S. I don't know how anyone can compare the athleticism of Tatum to Jackson. Not even close.
I see where we differ. I dont look at Isaac as a big man at all. I look at him more as a tall wing with great length. I think he is going to be a much better defensive player than offensive player. I think he will continue to be a one dribble pull up spot up shooting guy.
In actuality, Isaac has great handles for a big due to growing like a foot in a year, sort of like Olynyk did!!
Smitty77
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Triboy I agree with you that Jackson a better pro prospect but you lose credibility when you try to make this point by disparaging Tatum's athleticism and stats. Tatum should be a very good pro.
I agree with this. When you start making things up out of the thin blue sky you lose credibility. Both Jackson and Tatum are known prospects. They are both fairly equal prospects. Making things up Tatum's aggressiveness is totally unneccessary. Not being aggressive in a few 1st halfs is not like he disappeared altogether. If aything he was over aggressive early in the season.
We get it you like Jackson the most. I like Tatum as the 2nd best prospect and i dont understand why people like Isaac more than either prospect but i dont make up things about either prospect to make Tatum look better. All players are what they are and all you can do is look at the player to see how they have progressed over time.
Lets not make up things to try and prop up guys
I like Isaac more for OUR team. He is a big man that can block shots and there is NO ONE in the country that can guard one on one like him, especially with his length. Mark it down, he will be a GREAT NBA player!! It may take 1-3 years, but he WILL be SPECIAL. I will gladly eat those words in 3.5 years!!!!
Smitty77
P.S. I don't know how anyone can compare the athleticism of Tatum to Jackson. Not even close.
I see where we differ. I dont look at Isaac as a big man at all. I look at him more as a tall wing with great length. I think he is going to be a much better defensive player than offensive player. I think he will continue to be a one dribble pull up spot up shooting guy.
In actuality, Isaac has great handles for a big due to growing like a foot in a year, sort of like Olynyk did!!
Smitty77
Olynyk?!?! I just threw up in my mouth a little.
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honestly, I dont see that high upside in Isaac. Jackson, Fultz, Ball, and Id even say Tatum all have higher upsides in my mind.
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honestly, I dont see that high upside in Isaac. Jackson, Fultz, Ball, and Id even say Tatum all have higher upsides in my mind.
Agreed. I haven't seen him create much at the college level, which makes me think he might not be able to create at the NBA level. If you can't create at the NBA level that limits your ceiling.
I expect that he will be a very good 3 and d wing, but I don't think he can be a star unless I see more creation.
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Triboy I agree with you that Jackson a better pro prospect but you lose credibility when you try to make this point by disparaging Tatum's athleticism and stats. Tatum should be a very good pro.
I agree with this. When you start making things up out of the thin blue sky you lose credibility. Both Jackson and Tatum are known prospects. They are both fairly equal prospects. Making things up Tatum's aggressiveness is totally unneccessary. Not being aggressive in a few 1st halfs is not like he disappeared altogether. If aything he was over aggressive early in the season.
We get it you like Jackson the most. I like Tatum as the 2nd best prospect and i dont understand why people like Isaac more than either prospect but i dont make up things about either prospect to make Tatum look better. All players are what they are and all you can do is look at the player to see how they have progressed over time.
Lets not make up things to try and prop up guys
I like Isaac more for OUR team. He is a big man that can block shots and there is NO ONE in the country that can guard one on one like him, especially with his length. Mark it down, he will be a GREAT NBA player!! It may take 1-3 years, but he WILL be SPECIAL. I will gladly eat those words in 3.5 years!!!!
Smitty77
P.S. I don't know how anyone can compare the athleticism of Tatum to Jackson. Not even close.
Jackson is a much better athlete, but lets not act like Tatum is a bad athlete. For a player with his size he is pretty athletic and will be no worse than a good NBA athlete.
Also where is Isaac in your rankings? 2nd? 3rd?
blocks and steals arent that important, but Tatum averages 1.1 steas 1.3 block. Isaac: 1.1 and 1.5
I am going by my viewing games and watching his perimeter D. FAR better than anything Tatum could do, due to athletic ability, height, reach, wingspan, and quickness.
Smitty77
Comparing Jackson to Tatum? They're the same height, and Tatum has a bigger wingspan (according to measurements on draftexpress). Unless you mean Isaac.
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Triboy I agree with you that Jackson a better pro prospect but you lose credibility when you try to make this point by disparaging Tatum's athleticism and stats. Tatum should be a very good pro.
I agree with this. When you start making things up out of the thin blue sky you lose credibility. Both Jackson and Tatum are known prospects. They are both fairly equal prospects. Making things up Tatum's aggressiveness is totally unneccessary. Not being aggressive in a few 1st halfs is not like he disappeared altogether. If aything he was over aggressive early in the season.
We get it you like Jackson the most. I like Tatum as the 2nd best prospect and i dont understand why people like Isaac more than either prospect but i dont make up things about either prospect to make Tatum look better. All players are what they are and all you can do is look at the player to see how they have progressed over time.
Lets not make up things to try and prop up guys
I like Isaac more for OUR team. He is a big man that can block shots and there is NO ONE in the country that can guard one on one like him, especially with his length. Mark it down, he will be a GREAT NBA player!! It may take 1-3 years, but he WILL be SPECIAL. I will gladly eat those words in 3.5 years!!!!
Smitty77
P.S. I don't know how anyone can compare the athleticism of Tatum to Jackson. Not even close.
Jackson is a much better athlete, but lets not act like Tatum is a bad athlete. For a player with his size he is pretty athletic and will be no worse than a good NBA athlete.
Also where is Isaac in your rankings? 2nd? 3rd?
blocks and steals arent that important, but Tatum averages 1.1 steas 1.3 block. Isaac: 1.1 and 1.5
I am going by my viewing games and watching his perimeter D. FAR better than anything Tatum could do, due to athletic ability, height, reach, wingspan, and quickness.
Smitty77
And how does any of that translate to the offensive end?
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Triboy I agree with you that Jackson a better pro prospect but you lose credibility when you try to make this point by disparaging Tatum's athleticism and stats. Tatum should be a very good pro.
I agree with this. When you start making things up out of the thin blue sky you lose credibility. Both Jackson and Tatum are known prospects. They are both fairly equal prospects. Making things up Tatum's aggressiveness is totally unneccessary. Not being aggressive in a few 1st halfs is not like he disappeared altogether. If aything he was over aggressive early in the season.
We get it you like Jackson the most. I like Tatum as the 2nd best prospect and i dont understand why people like Isaac more than either prospect but i dont make up things about either prospect to make Tatum look better. All players are what they are and all you can do is look at the player to see how they have progressed over time.
Lets not make up things to try and prop up guys
I like Isaac more for OUR team. He is a big man that can block shots and there is NO ONE in the country that can guard one on one like him, especially with his length. Mark it down, he will be a GREAT NBA player!! It may take 1-3 years, but he WILL be SPECIAL. I will gladly eat those words in 3.5 years!!!!
Smitty77
P.S. I don't know how anyone can compare the athleticism of Tatum to Jackson. Not even close.
Jackson is a much better athlete, but lets not act like Tatum is a bad athlete. For a player with his size he is pretty athletic and will be no worse than a good NBA athlete.
Also where is Isaac in your rankings? 2nd? 3rd?
blocks and steals arent that important, but Tatum averages 1.1 steas 1.3 block. Isaac: 1.1 and 1.5
I am going by my viewing games and watching his perimeter D. FAR better than anything Tatum could do, due to athletic ability, height, reach, wingspan, and quickness.
Smitty77
And how does any of that translate to the offensive end?
First, our team needs more D this year. We are scoring just fine!!! Isaac is VERY unselfish as a recent article indicates. He is ONLY taking around 8 shots per game, but is shooting 50.2% and 79.6% at the line, which is outstanding for a guy that is 6'11"!!!! Isaac also plays exactly 7.5 LESS minutes per game on average than Tatum. Tatum takes around 12.6 shots per game and is shooting 45.3%.
Smitty77
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honestly, I dont see that high upside in Isaac. Jackson, Fultz, Ball, and Id even say Tatum all have higher upsides in my mind.
Agreed. I haven't seen him create much at the college level, which makes me think he might not be able to create at the NBA level. If you can't create at the NBA level that limits your ceiling.
I expect that he will be a very good 3 and d wing, but I don't think he can be a star unless I see more creation.
This is how I see him as well thus me not looking to take him in the top 4.
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Triboy I agree with you that Jackson a better pro prospect but you lose credibility when you try to make this point by disparaging Tatum's athleticism and stats. Tatum should be a very good pro.
I agree with this. When you start making things up out of the thin blue sky you lose credibility. Both Jackson and Tatum are known prospects. They are both fairly equal prospects. Making things up Tatum's aggressiveness is totally unneccessary. Not being aggressive in a few 1st halfs is not like he disappeared altogether. If aything he was over aggressive early in the season.
We get it you like Jackson the most. I like Tatum as the 2nd best prospect and i dont understand why people like Isaac more than either prospect but i dont make up things about either prospect to make Tatum look better. All players are what they are and all you can do is look at the player to see how they have progressed over time.
Lets not make up things to try and prop up guys
I like Isaac more for OUR team. He is a big man that can block shots and there is NO ONE in the country that can guard one on one like him, especially with his length. Mark it down, he will be a GREAT NBA player!! It may take 1-3 years, but he WILL be SPECIAL. I will gladly eat those words in 3.5 years!!!!
Smitty77
P.S. I don't know how anyone can compare the athleticism of Tatum to Jackson. Not even close.
Jackson is a much better athlete, but lets not act like Tatum is a bad athlete. For a player with his size he is pretty athletic and will be no worse than a good NBA athlete.
Also where is Isaac in your rankings? 2nd? 3rd?
blocks and steals arent that important, but Tatum averages 1.1 steas 1.3 block. Isaac: 1.1 and 1.5
I am going by my viewing games and watching his perimeter D. FAR better than anything Tatum could do, due to athletic ability, height, reach, wingspan, and quickness.
Smitty77
And how does any of that translate to the offensive end?
First, our team needs more D this year. We are scoring just fine!!! Isaac is VERY unselfish as a recent article indicates. He is ONLY taking around 8 shots per game, but is shooting 50.2% and 79.6% at the line, which is outstanding for a guy that is 6'11"!!!! Isaac also plays exactly 7.5 LESS minutes per game on average than Tatum. Tatum takes around 12.6 shots per game and is shooting 45.3%.
Smitty77
you yourself said that it would take Isaac 3+ years. Drafting him based on this years needs seems shortsighted.
Drafting anyone based on needs is shortsighted. Drafting a project player based on current needs is especially suspect.
Especially when the other player in this discussion dresses another current need.
Plus Im not sure if that indicates unselfishness.
Tatum is 15 shots per 40, Isaac is 12.5 plus his passing and ability to create are considered weaknesses, so if Isaac is really "unselfish" that may just be a code for passivity.
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Triboy I agree with you that Jackson a better pro prospect but you lose credibility when you try to make this point by disparaging Tatum's athleticism and stats. Tatum should be a very good pro.
I agree with this. When you start making things up out of the thin blue sky you lose credibility. Both Jackson and Tatum are known prospects. They are both fairly equal prospects. Making things up Tatum's aggressiveness is totally unneccessary. Not being aggressive in a few 1st halfs is not like he disappeared altogether. If aything he was over aggressive early in the season.
We get it you like Jackson the most. I like Tatum as the 2nd best prospect and i dont understand why people like Isaac more than either prospect but i dont make up things about either prospect to make Tatum look better. All players are what they are and all you can do is look at the player to see how they have progressed over time.
Lets not make up things to try and prop up guys
I like Isaac more for OUR team. He is a big man that can block shots and there is NO ONE in the country that can guard one on one like him, especially with his length. Mark it down, he will be a GREAT NBA player!! It may take 1-3 years, but he WILL be SPECIAL. I will gladly eat those words in 3.5 years!!!!
Smitty77
P.S. I don't know how anyone can compare the athleticism of Tatum to Jackson. Not even close.
Jackson is a much better athlete, but lets not act like Tatum is a bad athlete. For a player with his size he is pretty athletic and will be no worse than a good NBA athlete.
Also where is Isaac in your rankings? 2nd? 3rd?
blocks and steals arent that important, but Tatum averages 1.1 steas 1.3 block. Isaac: 1.1 and 1.5
I am going by my viewing games and watching his perimeter D. FAR better than anything Tatum could do, due to athletic ability, height, reach, wingspan, and quickness.
Smitty77
And how does any of that translate to the offensive end?
First, our team needs more D this year. We are scoring just fine!!! Isaac is VERY unselfish as a recent article indicates. He is ONLY taking around 8 shots per game, but is shooting 50.2% and 79.6% at the line, which is outstanding for a guy that is 6'11"!!!! Isaac also plays exactly 7.5 LESS minutes per game on average than Tatum. Tatum takes around 12.6 shots per game and is shooting 45.3%.
Smitty77
We need both. You certainly need someone that can create a shot because the team is over reliant on IT to do that. If he is what you say he is why cant he create more shots? How does he have any game where he takes only 2 shots?
So many of you Isaac fans just totally ignore flaws in his game. Every player has them. Instead of just saying he cant create good looks for himself hes unselfish.
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Triboy I agree with you that Jackson a better pro prospect but you lose credibility when you try to make this point by disparaging Tatum's athleticism and stats. Tatum should be a very good pro.
I agree with this. When you start making things up out of the thin blue sky you lose credibility. Both Jackson and Tatum are known prospects. They are both fairly equal prospects. Making things up Tatum's aggressiveness is totally unneccessary. Not being aggressive in a few 1st halfs is not like he disappeared altogether. If aything he was over aggressive early in the season.
We get it you like Jackson the most. I like Tatum as the 2nd best prospect and i dont understand why people like Isaac more than either prospect but i dont make up things about either prospect to make Tatum look better. All players are what they are and all you can do is look at the player to see how they have progressed over time.
Lets not make up things to try and prop up guys
I like Isaac more for OUR team. He is a big man that can block shots and there is NO ONE in the country that can guard one on one like him, especially with his length. Mark it down, he will be a GREAT NBA player!! It may take 1-3 years, but he WILL be SPECIAL. I will gladly eat those words in 3.5 years!!!!
Smitty77
P.S. I don't know how anyone can compare the athleticism of Tatum to Jackson. Not even close.
Jackson is a much better athlete, but lets not act like Tatum is a bad athlete. For a player with his size he is pretty athletic and will be no worse than a good NBA athlete.
Also where is Isaac in your rankings? 2nd? 3rd?
blocks and steals arent that important, but Tatum averages 1.1 steas 1.3 block. Isaac: 1.1 and 1.5
I am going by my viewing games and watching his perimeter D. FAR better than anything Tatum could do, due to athletic ability, height, reach, wingspan, and quickness.
Smitty77
And how does any of that translate to the offensive end?
First, our team needs more D this year. We are scoring just fine!!! Isaac is VERY unselfish as a recent article indicates. He is ONLY taking around 8 shots per game, but is shooting 50.2% and 79.6% at the line, which is outstanding for a guy that is 6'11"!!!! Isaac also plays exactly 7.5 LESS minutes per game on average than Tatum. Tatum takes around 12.6 shots per game and is shooting 45.3%.
Smitty77
We need both. You certainly need someone that can create a shot because the team is over reliant on IT to do that. If he is what you say he is why cant he create more shots? How does he have any game where he takes only 2 shots?
So many of you Isaac fans just totally ignore flaws in his game. Every player has them. Instead of just saying he cant create good looks for himself hes unselfish.
I think it's really just one Isaac fan.
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Triboy I agree with you that Jackson a better pro prospect but you lose credibility when you try to make this point by disparaging Tatum's athleticism and stats. Tatum should be a very good pro.
I agree with this. When you start making things up out of the thin blue sky you lose credibility. Both Jackson and Tatum are known prospects. They are both fairly equal prospects. Making things up Tatum's aggressiveness is totally unneccessary. Not being aggressive in a few 1st halfs is not like he disappeared altogether. If aything he was over aggressive early in the season.
We get it you like Jackson the most. I like Tatum as the 2nd best prospect and i dont understand why people like Isaac more than either prospect but i dont make up things about either prospect to make Tatum look better. All players are what they are and all you can do is look at the player to see how they have progressed over time.
Lets not make up things to try and prop up guys
I like Isaac more for OUR team. He is a big man that can block shots and there is NO ONE in the country that can guard one on one like him, especially with his length. Mark it down, he will be a GREAT NBA player!! It may take 1-3 years, but he WILL be SPECIAL. I will gladly eat those words in 3.5 years!!!!
Smitty77
P.S. I don't know how anyone can compare the athleticism of Tatum to Jackson. Not even close.
Jackson is a much better athlete, but lets not act like Tatum is a bad athlete. For a player with his size he is pretty athletic and will be no worse than a good NBA athlete.
Also where is Isaac in your rankings? 2nd? 3rd?
blocks and steals arent that important, but Tatum averages 1.1 steas 1.3 block. Isaac: 1.1 and 1.5
I am going by my viewing games and watching his perimeter D. FAR better than anything Tatum could do, due to athletic ability, height, reach, wingspan, and quickness.
Smitty77
And how does any of that translate to the offensive end?
First, our team needs more D this year. We are scoring just fine!!! Isaac is VERY unselfish as a recent article indicates. He is ONLY taking around 8 shots per game, but is shooting 50.2% and 79.6% at the line, which is outstanding for a guy that is 6'11"!!!! Isaac also plays exactly 7.5 LESS minutes per game on average than Tatum. Tatum takes around 12.6 shots per game and is shooting 45.3%.
Smitty77
We need both. You certainly need someone that can create a shot because the team is over reliant on IT to do that. If he is what you say he is why cant he create more shots? How does he have any game where he takes only 2 shots?
So many of you Isaac fans just totally ignore flaws in his game. Every player has them. Instead of just saying he cant create good looks for himself hes unselfish.
I think it's really just one Isaac fan.
I mean for Tatum I would say he has elite shot creation skills for 19 although he isnt a knockdown shooter yet. Can create looks but cant always finish. Very long and good on the post although he does have trouble with length and elite defenders. Is just an ok defender. Can read a play and get steals but doesnt have the strength yet to keep a guy infront of him.
Good but not great athlete. Has the potential to be a go to scorer with solid starter being the floor.
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Triboy I agree with you that Jackson a better pro prospect but you lose credibility when you try to make this point by disparaging Tatum's athleticism and stats. Tatum should be a very good pro.
I agree with this. When you start making things up out of the thin blue sky you lose credibility. Both Jackson and Tatum are known prospects. They are both fairly equal prospects. Making things up Tatum's aggressiveness is totally unneccessary. Not being aggressive in a few 1st halfs is not like he disappeared altogether. If aything he was over aggressive early in the season.
We get it you like Jackson the most. I like Tatum as the 2nd best prospect and i dont understand why people like Isaac more than either prospect but i dont make up things about either prospect to make Tatum look better. All players are what they are and all you can do is look at the player to see how they have progressed over time.
Lets not make up things to try and prop up guys
I like Isaac more for OUR team. He is a big man that can block shots and there is NO ONE in the country that can guard one on one like him, especially with his length. Mark it down, he will be a GREAT NBA player!! It may take 1-3 years, but he WILL be SPECIAL. I will gladly eat those words in 3.5 years!!!!
Smitty77
P.S. I don't know how anyone can compare the athleticism of Tatum to Jackson. Not even close.
Jackson is a much better athlete, but lets not act like Tatum is a bad athlete. For a player with his size he is pretty athletic and will be no worse than a good NBA athlete.
Also where is Isaac in your rankings? 2nd? 3rd?
blocks and steals arent that important, but Tatum averages 1.1 steas 1.3 block. Isaac: 1.1 and 1.5
I am going by my viewing games and watching his perimeter D. FAR better than anything Tatum could do, due to athletic ability, height, reach, wingspan, and quickness.
Smitty77
And how does any of that translate to the offensive end?
First, our team needs more D this year. We are scoring just fine!!! Isaac is VERY unselfish as a recent article indicates. He is ONLY taking around 8 shots per game, but is shooting 50.2% and 79.6% at the line, which is outstanding for a guy that is 6'11"!!!! Isaac also plays exactly 7.5 LESS minutes per game on average than Tatum. Tatum takes around 12.6 shots per game and is shooting 45.3%.
Smitty77
We need both. You certainly need someone that can create a shot because the team is over reliant on IT to do that. If he is what you say he is why cant he create more shots? How does he have any game where he takes only 2 shots?
So many of you Isaac fans just totally ignore flaws in his game. Every player has them. Instead of just saying he cant create good looks for himself hes unselfish.
I think it's really just one Isaac fan.
I mean for Tatum I would say he has elite shot creation skills for 19 although he isnt a knockdown shooter yet. Can create looks but cant always finish. Very long and good on the post although he does have trouble with length and elite defenders. Is just an ok defender. Can read a play and get steals but doesnt have the strength yet to keep a guy infront of him.
Good but not great athlete. Has the potential to be a go to scorer with solid starter being the floor.
Tatum is interesting because his flaws are all half-flaws.
Id list his weaknesses as 3 point shooting, creating for others, strength, quickness, defense, finishing.
Thing is, 87% at the stripe indicate the shooting will be OK
creating for others is far from fatal hes just not good at it
his frame indicates he could put on a ton of strength
quickness on d is again not elite, but not a fatal flaw. he can absolutely be a passable defender
defense needs to lock in but the tools for solid D are there
finishing with his length and feel for offense Id count on this flaw going away.
-
Triboy I agree with you that Jackson a better pro prospect but you lose credibility when you try to make this point by disparaging Tatum's athleticism and stats. Tatum should be a very good pro.
I agree with this. When you start making things up out of the thin blue sky you lose credibility. Both Jackson and Tatum are known prospects. They are both fairly equal prospects. Making things up Tatum's aggressiveness is totally unneccessary. Not being aggressive in a few 1st halfs is not like he disappeared altogether. If aything he was over aggressive early in the season.
We get it you like Jackson the most. I like Tatum as the 2nd best prospect and i dont understand why people like Isaac more than either prospect but i dont make up things about either prospect to make Tatum look better. All players are what they are and all you can do is look at the player to see how they have progressed over time.
Lets not make up things to try and prop up guys
I like Isaac more for OUR team. He is a big man that can block shots and there is NO ONE in the country that can guard one on one like him, especially with his length. Mark it down, he will be a GREAT NBA player!! It may take 1-3 years, but he WILL be SPECIAL. I will gladly eat those words in 3.5 years!!!!
Smitty77
P.S. I don't know how anyone can compare the athleticism of Tatum to Jackson. Not even close.
Jackson is a much better athlete, but lets not act like Tatum is a bad athlete. For a player with his size he is pretty athletic and will be no worse than a good NBA athlete.
Also where is Isaac in your rankings? 2nd? 3rd?
blocks and steals arent that important, but Tatum averages 1.1 steas 1.3 block. Isaac: 1.1 and 1.5
I am going by my viewing games and watching his perimeter D. FAR better than anything Tatum could do, due to athletic ability, height, reach, wingspan, and quickness.
Smitty77
And how does any of that translate to the offensive end?
First, our team needs more D this year. We are scoring just fine!!! Isaac is VERY unselfish as a recent article indicates. He is ONLY taking around 8 shots per game, but is shooting 50.2% and 79.6% at the line, which is outstanding for a guy that is 6'11"!!!! Isaac also plays exactly 7.5 LESS minutes per game on average than Tatum. Tatum takes around 12.6 shots per game and is shooting 45.3%.
Smitty77
We need both. You certainly need someone that can create a shot because the team is over reliant on IT to do that. If he is what you say he is why cant he create more shots? How does he have any game where he takes only 2 shots?
So many of you Isaac fans just totally ignore flaws in his game. Every player has them. Instead of just saying he cant create good looks for himself hes unselfish.
I think it's really just one Isaac fan.
I mean for Tatum I would say he has elite shot creation skills for 19 although he isnt a knockdown shooter yet. Can create looks but cant always finish. Very long and good on the post although he does have trouble with length and elite defenders. Is just an ok defender. Can read a play and get steals but doesnt have the strength yet to keep a guy infront of him.
Good but not great athlete. Has the potential to be a go to scorer with solid starter being the floor.
Tatum is interesting because his flaws are all half-flaws.
Id list his weaknesses as 3 point shooting, creating for others, strength, quickness, defense, finishing.
Thing is, 87% at the stripe indicate the shooting will be OK
creating for others is far from fatal hes just not good at it
his frame indicates he could put on a ton of strength
quickness on d is again not elite, but not a fatal flaw. he can absolutely be a passable defender
defense needs to lock in but the tools for solid D are there
finishing with his length and feel for offense Id count on this flaw going away.
I would agree with this.
-
It's always amazing to see what a little bit of exposure can do for a player's standing among casual fans...
-
Triboy I agree with you that Jackson a better pro prospect but you lose credibility when you try to make this point by disparaging Tatum's athleticism and stats. Tatum should be a very good pro.
I agree with this. When you start making things up out of the thin blue sky you lose credibility. Both Jackson and Tatum are known prospects. They are both fairly equal prospects. Making things up Tatum's aggressiveness is totally unneccessary. Not being aggressive in a few 1st halfs is not like he disappeared altogether. If aything he was over aggressive early in the season.
We get it you like Jackson the most. I like Tatum as the 2nd best prospect and i dont understand why people like Isaac more than either prospect but i dont make up things about either prospect to make Tatum look better. All players are what they are and all you can do is look at the player to see how they have progressed over time.
Lets not make up things to try and prop up guys
I like Isaac more for OUR team. He is a big man that can block shots and there is NO ONE in the country that can guard one on one like him, especially with his length. Mark it down, he will be a GREAT NBA player!! It may take 1-3 years, but he WILL be SPECIAL. I will gladly eat those words in 3.5 years!!!!
Smitty77
P.S. I don't know how anyone can compare the athleticism of Tatum to Jackson. Not even close.
Jackson is a much better athlete, but lets not act like Tatum is a bad athlete. For a player with his size he is pretty athletic and will be no worse than a good NBA athlete.
Also where is Isaac in your rankings? 2nd? 3rd?
blocks and steals arent that important, but Tatum averages 1.1 steas 1.3 block. Isaac: 1.1 and 1.5
I am going by my viewing games and watching his perimeter D. FAR better than anything Tatum could do, due to athletic ability, height, reach, wingspan, and quickness.
Smitty77
And how does any of that translate to the offensive end?
First, our team needs more D this year. We are scoring just fine!!! Isaac is VERY unselfish as a recent article indicates. He is ONLY taking around 8 shots per game, but is shooting 50.2% and 79.6% at the line, which is outstanding for a guy that is 6'11"!!!! Isaac also plays exactly 7.5 LESS minutes per game on average than Tatum. Tatum takes around 12.6 shots per game and is shooting 45.3%.
Smitty77
We need both. You certainly need someone that can create a shot because the team is over reliant on IT to do that. If he is what you say he is why cant he create more shots? How does he have any game where he takes only 2 shots?
So many of you Isaac fans just totally ignore flaws in his game. Every player has them. Instead of just saying he cant create good looks for himself hes unselfish.
I think it's really just one Isaac fan.
I mean for Tatum I would say he has elite shot creation skills for 19 although he isnt a knockdown shooter yet. Can create looks but cant always finish. Very long and good on the post although he does have trouble with length and elite defenders. Is just an ok defender. Can read a play and get steals but doesnt have the strength yet to keep a guy infront of him.
Good but not great athlete. Has the potential to be a go to scorer with solid starter being the floor.
Tatum is interesting because his flaws are all half-flaws.
Id list his weaknesses as 3 point shooting, creating for others, strength, quickness, defense, finishing.
Thing is, 87% at the stripe indicate the shooting will be OK
creating for others is far from fatal hes just not good at it
his frame indicates he could put on a ton of strength
quickness on d is again not elite, but not a fatal flaw. he can absolutely be a passable defender
defense needs to lock in but the tools for solid D are there
finishing with his length and feel for offense Id count on this flaw going away.
I would agree with this.
I agree.
-
Just watched yesterday's The Jump...
Jason Williams said that Tatum is the best NBA prospect in the tournament:
Best isolation scorer BY FAR.
Better than Brandon Ingram.
Will hit "pro shots".
Worked with Jabari Parker for four days this summer...and was the better player on at least two of those days.
I would not be mad at Tatum in green next year.
-
Just watched yesterday's The Jump...
Jason Williams said that Tatum is the best NBA prospect in the tournament:
Best isolation scorer BY FAR.
Better than Brandon Ingram.
Will hit "pro shots".
Worked with Jabari Parker for four days this summer...and was the better player on at least two of those days.
I would not be mad at Tatum in green next year.
Yes Tatum is like another Parker...for better and the worst
-
It's always amazing to see what a little bit of exposure can do for a player's standing among casual fans...
Most people have had Tatumin their top 4 all year long.
lets not act like dominating the ACC tournament is "a little bit of exposure".
It was the most impressive 4 days of his season by far. Obviously when you have a performance like that your stock is going to rise.
-
Just watched yesterday's The Jump...
Jason Williams said that Tatum is the best NBA prospect in the tournament:
Best isolation scorer BY FAR.
Better than Brandon Ingram.
Will hit "pro shots".
Worked with Jabari Parker for four days this summer...and was the better player on at least two of those days.
I would not be mad at Tatum in green next year.
Yes Tatum is like another Parker...for better and the worst
I kind of think of Tatum as a better defensive Parker, who isn't as good at using his size inside. He is like a more iso mid range scoring version of Jabari coming out.
-
NBADraft.net now ranks Tatum 3, Jackson 4, in its latest mock draft rankings.
Still like Jackson better.
-
Just watched yesterday's The Jump...
Jason Williams said that Tatum is the best NBA prospect in the tournament:
Best isolation scorer BY FAR.
Better than Brandon Ingram.
Will hit "pro shots".
Worked with Jabari Parker for four days this summer...and was the better player on at least two of those days.
I would not be mad at Tatum in green next year.
Williams is slanted, being a Duke alum. I discount his statement a lot. Plus, I am not impressed with his TV analysis, find him kind of general, full of cliches and platitudes.
-
NBADraft.net now ranks Tatum 3, Jackson 4, in its latest mock draft rankings.
Still like Jackson better.
would be delighted with either. Right now, I would lean Tatum. Jackson's free throw percentage scares me.
-
Just watched yesterday's The Jump...
Jason Williams said that Tatum is the best NBA prospect in the tournament:
Best isolation scorer BY FAR.
Better than Brandon Ingram.
Will hit "pro shots".
Worked with Jabari Parker for four days this summer...and was the better player on at least two of those days.
I would not be mad at Tatum in green next year.
Yes Tatum is like another Parker...for better and the worst
Parker's two biggest weaknesses have been injuries and defense. I don't have those same concerns with Tatum.
-
Tatum was in beast mode last night.
Would be very happy see him in green next year.
-
Triboy I agree with you that Jackson a better pro prospect but you lose credibility when you try to make this point by disparaging Tatum's athleticism and stats. Tatum should be a very good pro.
I agree with this. When you start making things up out of the thin blue sky you lose credibility. Both Jackson and Tatum are known prospects. They are both fairly equal prospects. Making things up Tatum's aggressiveness is totally unneccessary. Not being aggressive in a few 1st halfs is not like he disappeared altogether. If aything he was over aggressive early in the season.
We get it you like Jackson the most. I like Tatum as the 2nd best prospect and i dont understand why people like Isaac more than either prospect but i dont make up things about either prospect to make Tatum look better. All players are what they are and all you can do is look at the player to see how they have progressed over time.
Lets not make up things to try and prop up guys
I like Isaac more for OUR team. He is a big man that can block shots and there is NO ONE in the country that can guard one on one like him, especially with his length. Mark it down, he will be a GREAT NBA player!! It may take 1-3 years, but he WILL be SPECIAL. I will gladly eat those words in 3.5 years!!!!
Smitty77
P.S. I don't know how anyone can compare the athleticism of Tatum to Jackson. Not even close.
Jackson is a much better athlete, but lets not act like Tatum is a bad athlete. For a player with his size he is pretty athletic and will be no worse than a good NBA athlete.
Also where is Isaac in your rankings? 2nd? 3rd?
blocks and steals arent that important, but Tatum averages 1.1 steas 1.3 block. Isaac: 1.1 and 1.5
I am going by my viewing games and watching his perimeter D. FAR better than anything Tatum could do, due to athletic ability, height, reach, wingspan, and quickness.
Smitty77
And how does any of that translate to the offensive end?
First, our team needs more D this year. We are scoring just fine!!! Isaac is VERY unselfish as a recent article indicates. He is ONLY taking around 8 shots per game, but is shooting 50.2% and 79.6% at the line, which is outstanding for a guy that is 6'11"!!!! Isaac also plays exactly 7.5 LESS minutes per game on average than Tatum. Tatum takes around 12.6 shots per game and is shooting 45.3%.
Smitty77
We need both. You certainly need someone that can create a shot because the team is over reliant on IT to do that. If he is what you say he is why cant he create more shots? How does he have any game where he takes only 2 shots?
So many of you Isaac fans just totally ignore flaws in his game. Every player has them. Instead of just saying he cant create good looks for himself hes unselfish.
I think it's really just one Isaac fan.
I will GLADLY stand on the mountain by MYSELF on this one and hopefully say a LOT of "I told you so's" in a few years. He will be an All-NBA defender or very close in 3 to 4 years. As I said, he is the best lock up defender on the perimeter (and pretty dang good in the paint, especially for his weight and strength level at this juncture!!!) I have seen in the last 10 year in college basketball!!
BTW, did ANYONE see his two blocks to seal the game in the first round vs. FGC??
He put up 17 points on 5/8 shooting, 10 rebounds, 5 assists and only 2 TO's (great assist/TO rate for a big man), 3 blocks (two HUGE ones in the last 2 minutes), and 2 steals.
Just watch him in the Big Dance!!!!
Smitty77
-
Just watched yesterday's The Jump...
Jason Williams said that Tatum is the best NBA prospect in the tournament:
Best isolation scorer BY FAR.
Better than Brandon Ingram.
Will hit "pro shots".
Worked with Jabari Parker for four days this summer...and was the better player on at least two of those days.
I would not be mad at Tatum in green next year.
Yes Tatum is like another Parker...for better and the worst
Parker's two biggest weaknesses have been injuries and defense. I don't have those same concerns with Tatum.
Parkeresque defense...
https://youtu.be/e1vwEar0WjA
-
Triboy I agree with you that Jackson a better pro prospect but you lose credibility when you try to make this point by disparaging Tatum's athleticism and stats. Tatum should be a very good pro.
I agree with this. When you start making things up out of the thin blue sky you lose credibility. Both Jackson and Tatum are known prospects. They are both fairly equal prospects. Making things up Tatum's aggressiveness is totally unneccessary. Not being aggressive in a few 1st halfs is not like he disappeared altogether. If aything he was over aggressive early in the season.
We get it you like Jackson the most. I like Tatum as the 2nd best prospect and i dont understand why people like Isaac more than either prospect but i dont make up things about either prospect to make Tatum look better. All players are what they are and all you can do is look at the player to see how they have progressed over time.
Lets not make up things to try and prop up guys
I like Isaac more for OUR team. He is a big man that can block shots and there is NO ONE in the country that can guard one on one like him, especially with his length. Mark it down, he will be a GREAT NBA player!! It may take 1-3 years, but he WILL be SPECIAL. I will gladly eat those words in 3.5 years!!!!
Smitty77
P.S. I don't know how anyone can compare the athleticism of Tatum to Jackson. Not even close.
Jackson is a much better athlete, but lets not act like Tatum is a bad athlete. For a player with his size he is pretty athletic and will be no worse than a good NBA athlete.
Also where is Isaac in your rankings? 2nd? 3rd?
blocks and steals arent that important, but Tatum averages 1.1 steas 1.3 block. Isaac: 1.1 and 1.5
I am going by my viewing games and watching his perimeter D. FAR better than anything Tatum could do, due to athletic ability, height, reach, wingspan, and quickness.
Smitty77
And how does any of that translate to the offensive end?
First, our team needs more D this year. We are scoring just fine!!! Isaac is VERY unselfish as a recent article indicates. He is ONLY taking around 8 shots per game, but is shooting 50.2% and 79.6% at the line, which is outstanding for a guy that is 6'11"!!!! Isaac also plays exactly 7.5 LESS minutes per game on average than Tatum. Tatum takes around 12.6 shots per game and is shooting 45.3%.
Smitty77
We need both. You certainly need someone that can create a shot because the team is over reliant on IT to do that. If he is what you say he is why cant he create more shots? How does he have any game where he takes only 2 shots?
So many of you Isaac fans just totally ignore flaws in his game. Every player has them. Instead of just saying he cant create good looks for himself hes unselfish.
I think it's really just one Isaac fan.
I will GLADLY stand on the mountain by MYSELF on this one and hopefully say a LOT of "I told you so's" in a few years. He will be an All-NBA defender or very close in 3 to 4 years. As I said, he is the best lock up defender on the perimeter (and pretty dang good in the paint, especially for his weight and strength level at this juncture!!!) I have seen in the last 10 year in college basketball!!
BTW, did ANYONE see his two blocks to seal the game in the first round vs. FGC??
He put up 17 points on 5/8 shooting, 10 rebounds, 5 assists and only 2 TO's (great assist/TO rate for a big man), 3 blocks (two HUGE ones in the last 2 minutes), and 2 steals.
Just watch him in the Big Dance!!!!
Smitty77
You want us to get excited about what a guy did in the 1st round of the Tourney? Sorry but the Tourney is going to have very little impact on how i view any of these players.
-
Triboy I agree with you that Jackson a better pro prospect but you lose credibility when you try to make this point by disparaging Tatum's athleticism and stats. Tatum should be a very good pro.
I agree with this. When you start making things up out of the thin blue sky you lose credibility. Both Jackson and Tatum are known prospects. They are both fairly equal prospects. Making things up Tatum's aggressiveness is totally unneccessary. Not being aggressive in a few 1st halfs is not like he disappeared altogether. If aything he was over aggressive early in the season.
We get it you like Jackson the most. I like Tatum as the 2nd best prospect and i dont understand why people like Isaac more than either prospect but i dont make up things about either prospect to make Tatum look better. All players are what they are and all you can do is look at the player to see how they have progressed over time.
Lets not make up things to try and prop up guys
I like Isaac more for OUR team. He is a big man that can block shots and there is NO ONE in the country that can guard one on one like him, especially with his length. Mark it down, he will be a GREAT NBA player!! It may take 1-3 years, but he WILL be SPECIAL. I will gladly eat those words in 3.5 years!!!!
Smitty77
P.S. I don't know how anyone can compare the athleticism of Tatum to Jackson. Not even close.
Jackson is a much better athlete, but lets not act like Tatum is a bad athlete. For a player with his size he is pretty athletic and will be no worse than a good NBA athlete.
Also where is Isaac in your rankings? 2nd? 3rd?
blocks and steals arent that important, but Tatum averages 1.1 steas 1.3 block. Isaac: 1.1 and 1.5
I am going by my viewing games and watching his perimeter D. FAR better than anything Tatum could do, due to athletic ability, height, reach, wingspan, and quickness.
Smitty77
And how does any of that translate to the offensive end?
First, our team needs more D this year. We are scoring just fine!!! Isaac is VERY unselfish as a recent article indicates. He is ONLY taking around 8 shots per game, but is shooting 50.2% and 79.6% at the line, which is outstanding for a guy that is 6'11"!!!! Isaac also plays exactly 7.5 LESS minutes per game on average than Tatum. Tatum takes around 12.6 shots per game and is shooting 45.3%.
Smitty77
We need both. You certainly need someone that can create a shot because the team is over reliant on IT to do that. If he is what you say he is why cant he create more shots? How does he have any game where he takes only 2 shots?
So many of you Isaac fans just totally ignore flaws in his game. Every player has them. Instead of just saying he cant create good looks for himself hes unselfish.
I think it's really just one Isaac fan.
I will GLADLY stand on the mountain by MYSELF on this one and hopefully say a LOT of "I told you so's" in a few years. He will be an All-NBA defender or very close in 3 to 4 years. As I said, he is the best lock up defender on the perimeter (and pretty dang good in the paint, especially for his weight and strength level at this juncture!!!) I have seen in the last 10 year in college basketball!!
BTW, did ANYONE see his two blocks to seal the game in the first round vs. FGC??
He put up 17 points on 5/8 shooting, 10 rebounds, 5 assists and only 2 TO's (great assist/TO rate for a big man), 3 blocks (two HUGE ones in the last 2 minutes), and 2 steals.
Just watch him in the Big Dance!!!!
Smitty77
You want us to get excited about what a guy did in the 1st round of the Tourney? Sorry but the Tourney is going to have very little impact on how i view any of these players.
NO!!! I WANT you to get excited about actually watching him play perimeter D!!! Try it out. I think you will come away impressed if you know anything about perimeter D!!
Smitty77
-
Triboy I agree with you that Jackson a better pro prospect but you lose credibility when you try to make this point by disparaging Tatum's athleticism and stats. Tatum should be a very good pro.
I agree with this. When you start making things up out of the thin blue sky you lose credibility. Both Jackson and Tatum are known prospects. They are both fairly equal prospects. Making things up Tatum's aggressiveness is totally unneccessary. Not being aggressive in a few 1st halfs is not like he disappeared altogether. If aything he was over aggressive early in the season.
We get it you like Jackson the most. I like Tatum as the 2nd best prospect and i dont understand why people like Isaac more than either prospect but i dont make up things about either prospect to make Tatum look better. All players are what they are and all you can do is look at the player to see how they have progressed over time.
Lets not make up things to try and prop up guys
I like Isaac more for OUR team. He is a big man that can block shots and there is NO ONE in the country that can guard one on one like him, especially with his length. Mark it down, he will be a GREAT NBA player!! It may take 1-3 years, but he WILL be SPECIAL. I will gladly eat those words in 3.5 years!!!!
Smitty77
P.S. I don't know how anyone can compare the athleticism of Tatum to Jackson. Not even close.
Jackson is a much better athlete, but lets not act like Tatum is a bad athlete. For a player with his size he is pretty athletic and will be no worse than a good NBA athlete.
Also where is Isaac in your rankings? 2nd? 3rd?
blocks and steals arent that important, but Tatum averages 1.1 steas 1.3 block. Isaac: 1.1 and 1.5
I am going by my viewing games and watching his perimeter D. FAR better than anything Tatum could do, due to athletic ability, height, reach, wingspan, and quickness.
Smitty77
And how does any of that translate to the offensive end?
First, our team needs more D this year. We are scoring just fine!!! Isaac is VERY unselfish as a recent article indicates. He is ONLY taking around 8 shots per game, but is shooting 50.2% and 79.6% at the line, which is outstanding for a guy that is 6'11"!!!! Isaac also plays exactly 7.5 LESS minutes per game on average than Tatum. Tatum takes around 12.6 shots per game and is shooting 45.3%.
Smitty77
We need both. You certainly need someone that can create a shot because the team is over reliant on IT to do that. If he is what you say he is why cant he create more shots? How does he have any game where he takes only 2 shots?
So many of you Isaac fans just totally ignore flaws in his game. Every player has them. Instead of just saying he cant create good looks for himself hes unselfish.
I think it's really just one Isaac fan.
I will GLADLY stand on the mountain by MYSELF on this one and hopefully say a LOT of "I told you so's" in a few years. He will be an All-NBA defender or very close in 3 to 4 years. As I said, he is the best lock up defender on the perimeter (and pretty dang good in the paint, especially for his weight and strength level at this juncture!!!) I have seen in the last 10 year in college basketball!!
BTW, did ANYONE see his two blocks to seal the game in the first round vs. FGC??
He put up 17 points on 5/8 shooting, 10 rebounds, 5 assists and only 2 TO's (great assist/TO rate for a big man), 3 blocks (two HUGE ones in the last 2 minutes), and 2 steals.
Just watch him in the Big Dance!!!!
Smitty77
You want us to get excited about what a guy did in the 1st round of the Tourney? Sorry but the Tourney is going to have very little impact on how i view any of these players.
NO!!! I WANT you to get excited about actually watching him play perimeter D!!! Try it out. I think you will come away impressed if you know anything about perimeter D!!
Smitty77
I have watched him a few times and he doesnt excite me at all. Yes he is a good perimeter defender but his game doesnt excite me enough to take him top 4 this year.
-
Jayson Tatum scores 18 to help Duke roll Troy. 3 blocks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4koK-lZB3iY
-
Duke down by 8 with less than 2 min to go
Tatum 5-10 and only 12 pts
-
Duke season ends
S. Carolina 88 Duke 81
Tatum 15 pts
-
Anybody catch the upset last night?
-
Anybody catch the upset last night?
I watched a lot of the game but was switching back and forth. I have to say that Tatum reminds me of a poor man's Otto Porter. I thought Grayson Allen looked pretty decent for a guy that we could get in the second round.
-
Anybody catch the upset last night?
I watched a lot of the game but was switching back and forth. I have to say that Tatum reminds me of a poor man's Otto Porter. I thought Grayson Allen looked pretty decent for a guy that we could get in the second round.
I agree...or Jabari Parker
-
Anybody catch the upset last night?
I watched a lot of the game but was switching back and forth. I have to say that Tatum reminds me of a poor man's Otto Porter. I thought Grayson Allen looked pretty decent for a guy that we could get in the second round.
I agree...or Jabari Parker
Tatum is much more advanced that Porter was at the same age and I think Tatum is more polished, but less athletic than Jabari.
Plus, if Jabari didnt have 2 devastating injuries already in his career he could easily be an all-star by now.
I wouldnt mind a healthy Jabari Parker, especially as Tatum is likely to be a better defender.
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Anybody catch the upset last night?
I watched a lot of the game but was switching back and forth. I have to say that Tatum reminds me of a poor man's Otto Porter. I thought Grayson Allen looked pretty decent for a guy that we could get in the second round.
I agree...or Jabari Parker
Tatum is much more advanced that Porter was at the same age and I think Tatum is more polished, but less athletic than Jabari.
Plus, if Jabari didnt have 2 devastating injuries already in his career he could easily be an all-star by now.
I wouldnt mind a healthy Jabari Parker, especially as Tatum is likely to be a better defender.
I agree on both. I totally wouldn't mind an Otto Porter with playmaking ability. Tatum has incredible court vision for a PF. He makes multiple passes a game that have a very high degree of difficulty. Honestly, Tatum has more Ben Simmons in his game than he does Otto Porter. If we want to make ridiculous comps, I'll say Tatum is a less athletic Simmons. He can be a point-forward in the future.
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Anybody catch the upset last night?
I watched a lot of the game but was switching back and forth. I have to say that Tatum reminds me of a poor man's Otto Porter. I thought Grayson Allen looked pretty decent for a guy that we could get in the second round.
I agree...or Jabari Parker
Tatum is much more advanced that Porter was at the same age and I think Tatum is more polished, but less athletic than Jabari.
Plus, if Jabari didnt have 2 devastating injuries already in his career he could easily be an all-star by now.
I wouldnt mind a healthy Jabari Parker, especially as Tatum is likely to be a better defender.
I agree on both. I totally wouldn't mind an Otto Porter with playmaking ability. Tatum has incredible court vision for a PF. He makes multiple passes a game that have a very high degree of difficulty. Honestly, Tatum has more Ben Simmons in his game than he does Otto Porter. If we want to make ridiculous comps, I'll say Tatum is a less athletic Simmons. He can be a point-forward in the future.
Interesting Salty, I haven't seen that level of playmaking from Tatum, certainly not at the level I see it from Jackson. He's a much better shooter than Simmons though.
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Im not sure about a Simmons comp. I dont see the similarities. Tatum is a scorer than can pass whil Simmons is a passer than can score.
Im really glad the draft isnt right after the tourney because the hype for or the lack there of for players swings so dramatically.
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Anybody catch the upset last night?
I watched a lot of the game but was switching back and forth. I have to say that Tatum reminds me of a poor man's Otto Porter. I thought Grayson Allen looked pretty decent for a guy that we could get in the second round.
I agree...or Jabari Parker
Tatum is much more advanced that Porter was at the same age and I think Tatum is more polished, but less athletic than Jabari.
Plus, if Jabari didnt have 2 devastating injuries already in his career he could easily be an all-star by now.
I wouldnt mind a healthy Jabari Parker, especially as Tatum is likely to be a better defender.
I agree on both. I totally wouldn't mind an Otto Porter with playmaking ability. Tatum has incredible court vision for a PF. He makes multiple passes a game that have a very high degree of difficulty. Honestly, Tatum has more Ben Simmons in his game than he does Otto Porter. If we want to make ridiculous comps, I'll say Tatum is a less athletic Simmons. He can be a point-forward in the future.
Interesting Salty, I haven't seen that level of playmaking from Tatum, certainly not at the level I see it from Jackson. He's a much better shooter than Simmons though.
Oh, Jackson is the superior playmaker off the pass and dribble, but he's a wing (and a year older) and therefore is supposed to be. Tatum was a freshman PF on a team with multiple upper-class guards, and he was still able to be a secondary ballhandler by the end of the season (keep in mind he missed training camp and the first month of the season). He sometimes made bad decisions and got a little loose with the handle, but he had plenty of terrific plays. He was a better passer than Parker was at Duke, and he's better at passing and dribbling than Porter is today. If he were at an otherwise mediocre team like LSU, I'd be curious to see a college offense run through him. I think it would work well enough to produce okay results, and certainly work well for short stretches.
He's 19, and he needs to improve a lot. I think he's a bit less NBA ready than Jackson and Fultz, for example. But he's got all the tools to be a complete PF in today's NBA -- shooting, passing, dribbling, rebounding, defense. They all show up in flashes, and if he puts them altogether, he's a franchise PF. I don't think there's a question he's a top 4 pick. He's why I'll be able to watch the draft lottery and not worry too much about the outcome. He's a top 2 player in most drafts, and he happens to play our position of greatest need.
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Im not sure about a Simmons comp. I dont see the similarities. Tatum is a scorer than can pass whil Simmons is a passer than can score.
Im really glad the draft isnt right after the tourney because the hype for or the lack there of for players swings so dramatically.
To be fair, I did call it a "ridiculous comp". But I think he's as close to Simmons as he is to Porter. That was more the point.
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Comparison: Caron Butler
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Comparison: Caron Butler
Yeah, I can see that. And people may not like the comp but Butler was a two-time All Star and one of the better SFs in the league for a period of time. Many 3rd or 4th picks don't achieve as much.
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Anybody catch the upset last night?
I watched a lot of the game but was switching back and forth. I have to say that Tatum reminds me of a poor man's Otto Porter. I thought Grayson Allen looked pretty decent for a guy that we could get in the second round.
I agree...or Jabari Parker
Tatum is much more advanced that Porter was at the same age and I think Tatum is more polished, but less athletic than Jabari.
Plus, if Jabari didnt have 2 devastating injuries already in his career he could easily be an all-star by now.
I wouldnt mind a healthy Jabari Parker, especially as Tatum is likely to be a better defender.
I agree on both. I totally wouldn't mind an Otto Porter with playmaking ability. Tatum has incredible court vision for a PF. He makes multiple passes a game that have a very high degree of difficulty. Honestly, Tatum has more Ben Simmons in his game than he does Otto Porter. If we want to make ridiculous comps, I'll say Tatum is a less athletic Simmons. He can be a point-forward in the future.
Interesting Salty, I haven't seen that level of playmaking from Tatum, certainly not at the level I see it from Jackson. He's a much better shooter than Simmons though.
Oh, Jackson is the superior playmaker off the pass and dribble, but he's a wing (and a year older) and therefore is supposed to be. Tatum was a freshman PF on a team with multiple upper-class guards, and he was still able to be a secondary ballhandler by the end of the season (keep in mind he missed training camp and the first month of the season). He sometimes made bad decisions and got a little loose with the handle, but he had plenty of terrific plays. He was a better passer than Parker was at Duke, and he's better at passing and dribbling than Porter is today. If he were at an otherwise mediocre team like LSU, I'd be curious to see a college offense run through him. I think it would work well enough to produce okay results, and certainly work well for short stretches.
He's 19, and he needs to improve a lot. I think he's a bit less NBA ready than Jackson and Fultz, for example. But he's got all the tools to be a complete PF in today's NBA -- shooting, passing, dribbling, rebounding, defense. They all show up in flashes, and if he puts them altogether, he's a franchise PF. I don't think there's a question he's a top 4 pick. He's why I'll be able to watch the draft lottery and not worry too much about the outcome. He's a top 2 player in most drafts, and he happens to play our position of greatest need.
Saltlover, you'd pick Tatum over Jackson if you were the Celtics?
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First off, I really like Jayson Tatum and am psyched that he may be our worse case scenario.
It sounds like people are thinking Tatum is an NBA power forward. Am I right on that? Because I've also read here that Josh Jackson is a wing and Jaylen is a better fit to play 4 than Josh.
Tatum is 6'8" and 205 lbs, averaging 16.8 points, 7.3 reb, 45% FG% and 34% 3FG%.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/4065648/jayson-tatum
Jackson is 6'8", 207 lbs, averaging 16.6 points, 7.1 reb, 52% FG% and 38% 3FG%.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/4066297/josh-jackson
I always saw Tatum as a small forward, and I didn't even know how close the stats were between them except for Jackson's better passing and Tatum's better FT shooting. Do people think he's more of a PF, and if so, why is hardly no one saying Jackson can be a PF with the same physical measurements, a high FG%, lower FT%, and nearly identical scoring and rebounding #'s?
EDIT: I also see Tatum play mostly on the perimeter in Duke's offensive sets. He is their 4, but he's usually out at the 3 point line, and 6'8" 205 isn't exactly PF size. I know he's 18 or 19 and we would hope he'll get stronger, but will he get taller?
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Anybody catch the upset last night?
I watched a lot of the game but was switching back and forth. I have to say that Tatum reminds me of a poor man's Otto Porter. I thought Grayson Allen looked pretty decent for a guy that we could get in the second round.
I agree...or Jabari Parker
Tatum is much more advanced that Porter was at the same age and I think Tatum is more polished, but less athletic than Jabari.
Plus, if Jabari didnt have 2 devastating injuries already in his career he could easily be an all-star by now.
I wouldnt mind a healthy Jabari Parker, especially as Tatum is likely to be a better defender.
I agree on both. I totally wouldn't mind an Otto Porter with playmaking ability. Tatum has incredible court vision for a PF. He makes multiple passes a game that have a very high degree of difficulty. Honestly, Tatum has more Ben Simmons in his game than he does Otto Porter. If we want to make ridiculous comps, I'll say Tatum is a less athletic Simmons. He can be a point-forward in the future.
Interesting Salty, I haven't seen that level of playmaking from Tatum, certainly not at the level I see it from Jackson. He's a much better shooter than Simmons though.
Oh, Jackson is the superior playmaker off the pass and dribble, but he's a wing (and a year older) and therefore is supposed to be. Tatum was a freshman PF on a team with multiple upper-class guards, and he was still able to be a secondary ballhandler by the end of the season (keep in mind he missed training camp and the first month of the season). He sometimes made bad decisions and got a little loose with the handle, but he had plenty of terrific plays. He was a better passer than Parker was at Duke, and he's better at passing and dribbling than Porter is today. If he were at an otherwise mediocre team like LSU, I'd be curious to see a college offense run through him. I think it would work well enough to produce okay results, and certainly work well for short stretches.
He's 19, and he needs to improve a lot. I think he's a bit less NBA ready than Jackson and Fultz, for example. But he's got all the tools to be a complete PF in today's NBA -- shooting, passing, dribbling, rebounding, defense. They all show up in flashes, and if he puts them altogether, he's a franchise PF. I don't think there's a question he's a top 4 pick. He's why I'll be able to watch the draft lottery and not worry too much about the outcome. He's a top 2 player in most drafts, and he happens to play our position of greatest need.
Saltlover, you'd pick Tatum over Jackson if you were the Celtics?
Didn't say that. I don't know which I'd pick, personally. I do think it's close (you have to remember Tatum is a full year younger than Jackson, which is important when projecting ceiling). I'm curious as to how much they will participate at the combine, if at all. On TV, Tatum looks bigger to me, but their various hoop summit measurements are pretty close (except, again, Tatum has been younger and therefore more likely to have grown). I think Tatum is a pure PF in terms of size and game, whereas Jackson could play up a little bit. But TV can make a guy look bigger or smaller than he actually is. If Tatum really has the extra 1-2 inches in height and 2-3 inches in wingspan that I think he does, I might lean that way.
But man, I do like Jackson. A lot. So I don't know. Most days I really wish I worked for the Celtics front office, but I'll be glad to be a fan on draft night. It will be a tough decision.
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Anybody catch the upset last night?
I watched a lot of the game but was switching back and forth. I have to say that Tatum reminds me of a poor man's Otto Porter. I thought Grayson Allen looked pretty decent for a guy that we could get in the second round.
I agree...or Jabari Parker
Tatum is much more advanced that Porter was at the same age and I think Tatum is more polished, but less athletic than Jabari.
Plus, if Jabari didnt have 2 devastating injuries already in his career he could easily be an all-star by now.
I wouldnt mind a healthy Jabari Parker, especially as Tatum is likely to be a better defender.
I agree on both. I totally wouldn't mind an Otto Porter with playmaking ability. Tatum has incredible court vision for a PF. He makes multiple passes a game that have a very high degree of difficulty. Honestly, Tatum has more Ben Simmons in his game than he does Otto Porter. If we want to make ridiculous comps, I'll say Tatum is a less athletic Simmons. He can be a point-forward in the future.
Interesting Salty, I haven't seen that level of playmaking from Tatum, certainly not at the level I see it from Jackson. He's a much better shooter than Simmons though.
Oh, Jackson is the superior playmaker off the pass and dribble, but he's a wing (and a year older) and therefore is supposed to be. Tatum was a freshman PF on a team with multiple upper-class guards, and he was still able to be a secondary ballhandler by the end of the season (keep in mind he missed training camp and the first month of the season). He sometimes made bad decisions and got a little loose with the handle, but he had plenty of terrific plays. He was a better passer than Parker was at Duke, and he's better at passing and dribbling than Porter is today. If he were at an otherwise mediocre team like LSU, I'd be curious to see a college offense run through him. I think it would work well enough to produce okay results, and certainly work well for short stretches.
He's 19, and he needs to improve a lot. I think he's a bit less NBA ready than Jackson and Fultz, for example. But he's got all the tools to be a complete PF in today's NBA -- shooting, passing, dribbling, rebounding, defense. They all show up in flashes, and if he puts them altogether, he's a franchise PF. I don't think there's a question he's a top 4 pick. He's why I'll be able to watch the draft lottery and not worry too much about the outcome. He's a top 2 player in most drafts, and he happens to play our position of greatest need.
Saltlover, you'd pick Tatum over Jackson if you were the Celtics?
Didn't say that. I don't know which I'd pick, personally. I do think it's close (you have to remember Tatum is a full year younger than Jackson, which is important when projecting ceiling). I'm curious as to how much they will participate at the combine, if at all. On TV, Tatum looks bigger to me, but their various hoop summit measurements are pretty close (except, again, Tatum has been younger and therefore more likely to have grown). I think Tatum is a pure PF in terms of size and game, whereas Jackson could play up a little bit. But TV can make a guy look bigger or smaller than he actually is. If Tatum really has the extra 1-2 inches in height and 2-3 inches in wingspan that I think he does, I might lean that way.
But man, I do like Jackson. A lot. So I don't know. Most days I really wish I worked for the Celtics front office, but I'll be glad to be a fan on draft night. It will be a tough decision.
Thanks.
I think Jackson is going to be considerably better as a pro. He seems much more engaged in each play than Tatum. His style of play just seems more organic, fluid, than Tatum's. Tatum plays like he is wound up a bit, tense. I'm not sure an extra year in age accounts for the difference that I have observed. They are both Freshman.
As far as Jackson's size, I watched a game a few weeks ago when I think Kansas was playing OKC. It was the first game Bill Walton, one of the announcers, saw Jackson play live. Several time he remarked how surprised he was at how big Jackson was. I agree with you that Tatum is more of a traditional body type of an NBA power forward, but I don't even know if that means as much anymore. There is so much switching on defense, especially by the Celtics, I just feel that Jackson is more athletically capable of guarding multiple positions than Tatum.
I'm by no means bashing Tatum. I think he will be a fine pro. It's just that Jackson feels very special to me.
Of course I once predicted Tyrus Thomas would be an All Star in the NBA, so there's that.
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Anybody catch the upset last night?
I watched a lot of the game but was switching back and forth. I have to say that Tatum reminds me of a poor man's Otto Porter. I thought Grayson Allen looked pretty decent for a guy that we could get in the second round.
I agree...or Jabari Parker
Tatum is much more advanced that Porter was at the same age and I think Tatum is more polished, but less athletic than Jabari.
Plus, if Jabari didnt have 2 devastating injuries already in his career he could easily be an all-star by now.
I wouldnt mind a healthy Jabari Parker, especially as Tatum is likely to be a better defender.
I agree on both. I totally wouldn't mind an Otto Porter with playmaking ability. Tatum has incredible court vision for a PF. He makes multiple passes a game that have a very high degree of difficulty. Honestly, Tatum has more Ben Simmons in his game than he does Otto Porter. If we want to make ridiculous comps, I'll say Tatum is a less athletic Simmons. He can be a point-forward in the future.
Interesting Salty, I haven't seen that level of playmaking from Tatum, certainly not at the level I see it from Jackson. He's a much better shooter than Simmons though.
Oh, Jackson is the superior playmaker off the pass and dribble, but he's a wing (and a year older) and therefore is supposed to be. Tatum was a freshman PF on a team with multiple upper-class guards, and he was still able to be a secondary ballhandler by the end of the season (keep in mind he missed training camp and the first month of the season). He sometimes made bad decisions and got a little loose with the handle, but he had plenty of terrific plays. He was a better passer than Parker was at Duke, and he's better at passing and dribbling than Porter is today. If he were at an otherwise mediocre team like LSU, I'd be curious to see a college offense run through him. I think it would work well enough to produce okay results, and certainly work well for short stretches.
He's 19, and he needs to improve a lot. I think he's a bit less NBA ready than Jackson and Fultz, for example. But he's got all the tools to be a complete PF in today's NBA -- shooting, passing, dribbling, rebounding, defense. They all show up in flashes, and if he puts them altogether, he's a franchise PF. I don't think there's a question he's a top 4 pick. He's why I'll be able to watch the draft lottery and not worry too much about the outcome. He's a top 2 player in most drafts, and he happens to play our position of greatest need.
Saltlover, you'd pick Tatum over Jackson if you were the Celtics?
Didn't say that. I don't know which I'd pick, personally. I do think it's close (you have to remember Tatum is a full year younger than Jackson, which is important when projecting ceiling). I'm curious as to how much they will participate at the combine, if at all. On TV, Tatum looks bigger to me, but their various hoop summit measurements are pretty close (except, again, Tatum has been younger and therefore more likely to have grown). I think Tatum is a pure PF in terms of size and game, whereas Jackson could play up a little bit. But TV can make a guy look bigger or smaller than he actually is. If Tatum really has the extra 1-2 inches in height and 2-3 inches in wingspan that I think he does, I might lean that way.
But man, I do like Jackson. A lot. So I don't know. Most days I really wish I worked for the Celtics front office, but I'll be glad to be a fan on draft night. It will be a tough decision.
Thanks.
I think Jackson is going to be considerably better as a pro. He seems much more engaged in each play than Tatum. His style of play just seems more organic, fluid, than Tatum's. Tatum plays like he is wound up a bit, tense. I'm not sure an extra year in age accounts for the difference that I have observed. They are both Freshman.
As far as Jackson's size, I watched a game a few weeks ago when I think Kansas was playing OKC. It was the first game Bill Walton, one of the announcers, saw Jackson play live. Several time he remarked how surprised he was at how big Jackson was. I agree with you that Tatum is more of a traditional body type of an NBA power forward, but I don't even know if that means as much anymore. There is so much switching on defense, especially by the Celtics, I just feel that Jackson is more athletically capable of guarding multiple positions than Tatum.
I'm by no means bashing Tatum. I think he will be a fine pro. It's just that Jackson feels very special to me.
Of course I once predicted Tyrus Thomas would be an All Star in the NBA, so there's that.
Hah, I liked Tyrus too. Rim protector, pretty smooth jumper. An all-time miss by me.
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Some positional thoughts.
Crowder is a 3 that can play the 4 for short stretches.
Jaylen Brown is a 3 than can play the 2 for short stretches but could develop to play the 4 short stretches as well. He's pretty versatile athletically.
Jackson seems like a 3 that will be able to play the 4 for short stretches.
Tatum seems like he will be more of a true tweener that is equally as good at the 3 or the 4. I agree that he looks a little bigger than Jackson.
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Some positional thoughts.
Crowder is a 3 that can play the 4 for short stretches.
Jaylen Brown is a 3 than can play the 2 for short stretches but could develop to play the 4 short stretches as well. He's pretty versatile athletically.
Jackson seems like a 3 that will be able to play the 4 for short stretches.
Tatum seems like he will be more of a true tweener that is equally as good at the 3 or the 4. I agree that he looks a little bigger than Jackson.
Agree on all except Jackson. He is going to be best at the 2 early in his career.
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https://youtu.be/aVjwnLHSMfc
This guy's offensive game is so buttery smooth!
Man, he would fit in so nicely on the front court... ;D
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Yeah, there is a lot to like with Tatum. He sure looks like a mix between Pierce and Melo. Not a bad consolation prize at all if we drop to 3 or 4.
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Can't lose. Get one? Draft Fultz. Get two? Draft Jackson or Tatum. Get three? Draft Jackson or Tatum. Get four? Draft Isaac.
As for the Jackson vs Tatum debate: Jackson fits the mold of the players we already have. He's a gritty, intense workhorse with tons of upside that doesn't take possessions off a la Smart, Crowder, Brown, Bradley, Amir, and Rozier. He's also got a questionable jump shot. He's a Danny Ainge kinda pick. He'll fit right in. That said... our team can really struggle to put the ball in the hoop, especially when IT is on the bench. While ISOs aren't really Brad Stevens' style, drafting Tatum gives us an opportunity to get another scorer. I look at Tatum and see Melo. Tatum INSTANTLY makes it easier for our second unit to score. That's tough to pass up.
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Can't lose. Get one? Draft Fultz. Get two? Draft Jackson or Tatum. Get three? Draft Jackson or Tatum. Get four? Draft Isaac.
As for the Jackson vs Tatum debate: Jackson fits the mold of the players we already have. He's a gritty, intense workhorse with tons of upside that doesn't take possessions off a la Smart, Crowder, Brown, Bradley, Amir, and Rozier. He's also got a questionable jump shot. He's a Danny Ainge kinda pick. He'll fit right in. That said... our team can really struggle to put the ball in the hoop, especially when IT is on the bench. While ISOs aren't really Brad Stevens' style, drafting Tatum gives us an opportunity to get another scorer. I look at Tatum and see Melo. Tatum INSTANTLY makes it easier for our second unit to score. That's tough to pass up.
Great point! He could bring some bully ball to the second unit...a la Melo!
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Can't lose. Get one? Draft Fultz. Get two? Draft Jackson or Tatum. Get three? Draft Jackson or Tatum. Get four? Draft Isaac.
As for the Jackson vs Tatum debate: Jackson fits the mold of the players we already have. He's a gritty, intense workhorse with tons of upside that doesn't take possessions off a la Smart, Crowder, Brown, Bradley, Amir, and Rozier. He's also got a questionable jump shot. He's a Danny Ainge kinda pick. He'll fit right in. That said... our team can really struggle to put the ball in the hoop, especially when IT is on the bench. While ISOs aren't really Brad Stevens' style, drafting Tatum gives us an opportunity to get another scorer. I look at Tatum and see Melo. Tatum INSTANTLY makes it easier for our second unit to score. That's tough to pass up.
Great point! He could bring some bully ball to the second unit...a la Melo!
He would bring a guy who can play the 3 or 4 but most importantly is a guy built to be a scoring option. An option that should be able to create on their own. His game is similar to Paul George to me. I think he would be a great add anywhere from 2 - 4.
I also think he game is more smooth than bully but thats me.
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Can't lose. Get one? Draft Fultz. Get two? Draft Jackson or Tatum. Get three? Draft Jackson or Tatum. Get four? Draft Isaac.
As for the Jackson vs Tatum debate: Jackson fits the mold of the players we already have. He's a gritty, intense workhorse with tons of upside that doesn't take possessions off a la Smart, Crowder, Brown, Bradley, Amir, and Rozier. He's also got a questionable jump shot. He's a Danny Ainge kinda pick. He'll fit right in. That said... our team can really struggle to put the ball in the hoop, especially when IT is on the bench. While ISOs aren't really Brad Stevens' style, drafting Tatum gives us an opportunity to get another scorer. I look at Tatum and see Melo. Tatum INSTANTLY makes it easier for our second unit to score. That's tough to pass up.
Great point! He could bring some bully ball to the second unit...a la Melo!
He would bring a guy who can play the 3 or 4 but most importantly is a guy built to be a scoring option. An option that should be able to create on their own. His game is similar to Paul George to me. I think he would be a great add anywhere from 2 - 4.
I also think he game is more smooth than bully but thats me.
I look at Tatum and see a mix of Smooth / Bully. That's why I see Melo. Melo was never afraid to put his back/shoulder into you, bully you down with his strength and size, then finesse a turnaround jumper. He's not PP34 with the tricks/smooth game, but he's not a blunt object/wrecking ball either. I like the Paul George comparison, but I think Tatum is more naturally offense geared than George is.
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I look at Tatum and see a mix of Smooth / Bully. That's why I see Melo
He also does not play the best D which is another Melo trait.
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I look at Tatum and see a mix of Smooth / Bully. That's why I see Melo
He also does not play the best D which is another Melo trait.
agreed.
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Wow...The Ringer has him at #9... :-[ :-[ :-[
https://theringer.com/ringer-nba-draft-lottery-big-board-version-5-0-2c36dc7c02cf
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Wow...The Ringer has him at #9... :-[ :-[ :-[
https://theringer.com/ringer-nba-draft-lottery-big-board-version-5-0-2c36dc7c02cf
The Ringer is useless
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Wow...The Ringer has him at #9... :-[ :-[ :-[
https://theringer.com/ringer-nba-draft-lottery-big-board-version-5-0-2c36dc7c02cf
I think Turks really doesnt like him thus the low rating.
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FYI - this should be a STICKY TOPIC.
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Its no surprise that the Celtics have strong interest. Wonder if Danny is considering using the pick for tatum
https://youtu.be/H-p0T2WhXM8
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Has anyone made a comparison of this kid to the Greek Freak? Just saw his highlights again. I hope Ainge is not having regrets of not drafting the Freak and trying therefore to talk himself into Tatum because Fultz is better.
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http://www.blogtalkradio.com/duncdon/2017/05/17/lotto-mania-sasgsw-game-2-jayson-tatum-scouting-report
At 34:54 Nate Duncan and Danny Leroux give a scouting report on Jayson Tatum.
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I see late career Shane Battier. Or maybe I just have Miami Heat playoffs Shane Battier stuck in my head where he couldn't miss a shot.
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Suns work out Duke's Jayson Tatum in Los Angeles (2 days ago)
http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2017/06/10/suns-work-out-dukes-jayson-tatum-los-angeles/387017001/
Not much noise otherwise regarding Tatum
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Op or admin change to Jayson Tatum (Merged)
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Op or admin change to Jason Statham (Merged)
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Op or admin change to Jason Statham (Merged)
Op or Admin dont listen to him
Change to Channing Tatum (Merged) ;D
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Op or admin change to Jason Statham (Merged)
Op or Admin dont listen to him
Change to Channing Tatum (Merged) ;D
haha tp
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Has anyone made a comparison of this kid to the Greek Freak? Just saw his highlights again. I hope Ainge is not having regrets of not drafting the Freak and trying therefore to talk himself into Tatum because Fultz is better.
Not nearly as long and athletic, but more polished offensively. In other words, not much like him.
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Has anyone made a comparison of this kid to the Greek Freak? Just saw his highlights again. I hope Ainge is not having regrets of not drafting the Freak and trying therefore to talk himself into Tatum because Fultz is better.
Not nearly as long and athletic, but more polished offensively. In other words, not much like him.
Ball handling is comparable. Tatum is also a good passer than advertised
I wouldnt be surprised if he is 6'9 with at least 7 wingspan since last time measured(last year). Very wide shoulders
Dont think he will be able to improve much on his quickness/explosiveness. But as long as he keeps improving his footwork should be fine
One move that surprises me that he can pull off.. is the Dirk "dont try to block me" off leg fadeaway
Recently posted making 20 3s in a row
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Hopefully, he can be part of the recent trend of Dukies playing well in the pros. Historically, though they are a mediocre school for producing top level pros.
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Anybody else surprised , that Tatum has not worked out for the Celtics yet?
Considering his size plus ability to handle the ball/create shots, thought at least he was going to be brought in for a workout
Unless Tatum declined ...
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Hopefully, he can be part of the recent trend of Dukies playing well in the pros. Historically, though they are a mediocre school for producing top level pros.
I'm not trying to be combative, but what trend? Kyrie is the only one in the last 5-6 years who's even approached expectations IIRC. Unless I'm missing some guys?
Edit: Jabari before his second ACL tear as well.
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Hopefully, he can be part of the recent trend of Dukies playing well in the pros. Historically, though they are a mediocre school for producing top level pros.
I'm not trying to be combative, but what trend? Kyrie is the only one in the last 5-6 years who's even approached expectations IIRC. Unless I'm missing some guys?
Edit: Jabari before his second ACL tear as well.
Rodney Hood is solid, though people here have always had a fascination with him that I don't share. Mason Plumlee. Austin Rivers has become a serviceable player. Seth Curry has been a more useful pro than people expected. JJ Redick, if you want to go back a little further.
Duke is doing alright in the NBA right now.
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Hopefully, he can be part of the recent trend of Dukies playing well in the pros. Historically, though they are a mediocre school for producing top level pros.
I'm not trying to be combative, but what trend? Kyrie is the only one in the last 5-6 years who's even approached expectations IIRC. Unless I'm missing some guys?
Edit: Jabari before his second ACL tear as well.
Rodney Hood is solid, though people here have always had a fascination with him that I don't share. Mason Plumlee. Austin Rivers has become a serviceable player. Seth Curry has been a more useful pro than people expected. JJ Redick, if you want to go back a little further.
Duke is doing alright in the NBA right now.
TP. I blanked on all the pretty good role players. So yes, recent Dukies have been better than in the past. However, a lot of the top picks have still been disappointing. Okafor, Ingram, Winslow (to a lesser extent), and Rivers has become a good role player, but he went #10, which I would not call a smashing success.
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Very advanced high and mid post game
Nice jabstep pull up shot
Scoring champion potential
Compares well with pierce / Carmelo / Rudy gay
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Very advanced high and mid post game
Nice jabstep pull up shot
Scoring champion potential
Compares well with pierce / Carmelo / Rudy gay
He's way more Melo than Gay. Gay was one of the most athletic guys in the league pre-injury. But I like the Melo comparisons a lot. Slowly turning myself onto team Taytum, assuming we keep the pick.
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Very advanced high and mid post game
Nice jabstep pull up shot
Scoring champion potential
Compares well with pierce / Carmelo / Rudy gay
He's way more Melo than Gay. Gay was one of the most athletic guys in the league pre-injury. But I like the Melo comparisons a lot. Slowly turning myself onto team Taytum, assuming we keep the pick.
true. I also like the little things Tatum can do. Includes decent ability to steal, using length to block shots without fouling, and a good rebounding ability
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The only one that wasn't stickied haha
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Draft express currently has him at #6. I say he ends up being a top three selection in a loaded draft.
He looked fantastic tonight, in what was I believe his second game back this season against the Florida Gators. He had 22 points, he's just got a nice smooth game I'll post the Duke highlights as soon as I can find them it's going to be awesome.
6'7" shoes off. Great size and feel for the game. Silky smooth like the Zohan.
Show this guy some love that called Tatum a top 3 pick in a loaded draft on December 7th 2016. Tatum was ranked#6 at the time.
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Draft express currently has him at #6. I say he ends up being a top three selection in a loaded draft.
He looked fantastic tonight, in what was I believe his second game back this season against the Florida Gators. He had 22 points, he's just got a nice smooth game I'll post the Duke highlights as soon as I can find them it's going to be awesome.
6'7" shoes off. Great size and feel for the game. Silky smooth like the Zohan.
****! :laugh: :laugh: If we draft him you've gotta push that as a nickname!
I'd like to see some more of him, I've seen the highlight vids of him in HS and I like his game a lot. Much more cerebral than some of the other guys in the draft. I'd be very happy adding him to this team
I'm going to try to push this for Sundance. Jayson silky smooth Tatum.
Or Jayson the Zohan Taytum!
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Draft express currently has him at #6. I say he ends up being a top three selection in a loaded draft.
He looked fantastic tonight, in what was I believe his second game back this season against the Florida Gators. He had 22 points, he's just got a nice smooth game I'll post the Duke highlights as soon as I can find them it's going to be awesome.
6'7" shoes off. Great size and feel for the game. Silky smooth like the Zohan.
****! :laugh: :laugh: If we draft him you've gotta push that as a nickname!
I'd like to see some more of him, I've seen the highlight vids of him in HS and I like his game a lot. Much more cerebral than some of the other guys in the draft. I'd be very happy adding him to this team
I'm going to try to push this for Sundance. Jayson silky smooth Tatum.
Or Jayson the Zohan Taytum!
The Zohan is one of my favorite movies! Me and a few buddies at work all do the accent they do in that movie and and quote it all the time :laugh:
I'm down for silky smooth like the Zohan
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If you're Ainge, you have to comfortably take him ahead of Jackson. He's the better player right now, resembles our beloved Pierce in his style, fills a need and would complement Jaylen well (in contrast to Jackson), and seems like a solid human being (in contrast to Jackson). Could rank him as high as #2 given how crazy Ball's father appears to be.
Great post Tarheels
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I can't wait to see him play for the Celtics. He's so skilled, but has such a long way to go. It will be fun to watch him develop... especially under a great coach. Brown and Tatum in a few years will be awesome!
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I can't wait to see him play for the Celtics. He's so skilled, but has such a long way to go. It will be fun to watch him develop... especially under a great coach. Brown and Tatum in a few years will be awesome!
I thought after first seeing Tatum he would be a great fit with brown.
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wizards-insider/wp/2017/06/22/bradley-beal-happy-for-friend-jayson-tatum-but-disowns-him-for-going-to-celtics/?utm_term=.5df377b006be
Didn't know Beal and Tatum were friends.... not anymore? ;D
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If you're Ainge, you have to comfortably take him ahead of Jackson. He's the better player right now, resembles our beloved Pierce in his style, fills a need and would complement Jaylen well (in contrast to Jackson), and seems like a solid human being (in contrast to Jackson). Could rank him as high as #2 given how crazy Ball's father appears to be.
Another TP Tar Heels you said it perfectly way back then.
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There were some very interesting pre-draft takes on Tatum. I think we can all agree that we are glad we got him.
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Great thread. I didn’t read this back then
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His go to shot is the long two, the most inefficient shot which he's shooting, inefficiently, he passes up open 3s for those folks... which doesn't bode well, I'd say.
And at 6'8" and he can't dunk the ball on a fastbreak with a 6'3" guy trailing him?! He just seems like too much of a finesse player. And we are NOT a finesse team 8) Please no, I'd rather wait for Jaylen to show signs of life.
:laugh: :laugh: Boy reading quotes like these has made my afternoon fun! TP to whomever bumped this thread :laugh: :laugh: He said PLEASE no :laugh: :laugh: Good thing you didn't get your wish huh?
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no chance he plays summer league like Jaylen last year?
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I think we will have 2 rookies in summer league and no tatum so the new guys get more touches
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I think we will have 2 rookies in summer league and no tatum so the new guys get more touches
good point about semi and yabu
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Yowzah...the number of amazingly wrong pre-draft hot takes about what kind of pro Tatum would be are astounding.
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The posts about his athleticism are interesting. I was a skeptic too, but I don’t think I ever wrote him off as unathletic
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Yowzah...the number of amazingly wrong pre-draft hot takes about what kind of pro Tatum would be are astounding.
Yep. But hey it happens.
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Yowzah...the number of amazingly wrong pre-draft hot takes about what kind of pro Tatum would be are astounding.
I’m pretty pleased that I hyped his playmaking and passing in this thread, as that really started to show up as the year progressed. His defense surprised me as to how ready it was for the NBA, however.
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H/t CelticsElite
Some Front Office Members Encouraged Bryan Colangelo To Consider Passing On Markelle Fultz
Markelle Fultz reportedly struggled in his workout with the Philadelphia 76ers last June, which league sources say caused some members of the front office to take a second look at drafting Jayson Tatum or Lonzo Ball. The 76ers were in the process of finalizing their trade with the Boston Celtics for the No. 3 overall pick, but Fultz struggled badly with his jumper during the workout.
Fultz's struggles during his workout with his shot were a precursor to the issues he struggled with throughout what was effectively a lost rookie season.
The idea of reconsidering Tatum or Ball was shot down by Colangelo, according to sources.
The 76ers were convinced they wanted to draft Fultz.
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/6/7/17440422/sixers-bryan-colangelo-free-agency
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See the appeal of Tatum. But I like Jackson significantly more. Moves real well without the ball. Always thinking on court. Think he's a more transcendent player than Tatum.
LOL, what do I know?