CelticsStrong

Other Discussions => Other / General Sports => Patriots / Football => Topic started by: Ogaju on September 23, 2016, 11:10:40 PM

Title: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: Ogaju on September 23, 2016, 11:10:40 PM
with the recent successes of various QBs in Bellichek's system is Tom mostly a product of the system?
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on September 23, 2016, 11:12:01 PM
No.

That is all.
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on September 23, 2016, 11:22:09 PM
Yes, of course.

Well... on the other hand, I'd imagine he's the closest individual to Jesus that we'll have the pleasure of seeing. So, maybe not.
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: incoherent on September 24, 2016, 12:44:40 AM
A system is just lines on paper.

Lines on paper vs. Tom Brady.... in the battle of who deserves the credit for Tom's Brady's decision making and arm throwing speed and accuracy?

Don't underestimate Lines on paper, it gets receivers open and that makes Tom look good... it has nothing to do with the actually ability of the receivers themselves, Lines on paper gets that credit as well. 

Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: Eja117 on September 24, 2016, 07:51:41 AM
Is Michael Jordan a system basketball player?
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on September 24, 2016, 07:58:03 AM
Is Jesus a system savior?
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: Surferdad on September 24, 2016, 08:10:18 AM
No, it's just that football depends much more on a good system than other sports.  This is partly because of the number of players on the playing field so everybody has to do their job for plays to work properly (either offense or defense).  Basketball is much more individualized with only 5 players per team.  Baseball is even more individualized due to the dominant nature of the pitcher-batter relationship.
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: knuckleballer on September 24, 2016, 08:21:27 AM
if he was really a system QB, don't you think that after 15 years of game film, other teams would replicate the "system"?  Yet, no one has managed to do so.  Sure the Pats have played payed well in the first three games of the season, but other than the first quarter of game two, the offense hasn't been anything close to what it is under Brady. 
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: Neurotic Guy on September 24, 2016, 08:45:34 AM
I suspect that if Jimmy and Jacoby were throwing to Givens, Gaffney, Patten, Fauria, Wiggins and the other relatve flotsam that he's had in championship seasons, they may not have looked as good.  With Bennett, Gronk, Edelman, Amendola, Hogan and Mitchell, this is as deep and versatile (all great blockers) a receiving group that BB has ever assembled.  I cant wait to see what the GOAT is able to do with that lineup and a solid defense.
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: knuckleballer on September 24, 2016, 08:50:36 AM
I suspect that if Jimmy and Jacoby were throwing to Givens, Gaffney, Patten, Fauria, Wiggins and the other relatve flotsam that he's had in championship seasons, they may not have looked as good.  With Bennett, Gronk, Edelman, Amendola, Hogan and Mitchell, this is as deep and versatile (all great blockers) a receiving group that BB has ever assembled.  I cant wait to see what the GOAT is able to do with that lineup and a solid defense.

And if Dion Lewis can come back healthy mid season, this offense is going to be fun to watch.
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: saltlover on September 24, 2016, 09:20:13 AM
I mean, what kind of success did Brissett actually have?  The first two touchdowns followed great field position after fumbled kickoff returns, so they got the ball at the 21 and 22.  The third touchdown was just two runs by Blount.  I grant the first touchdown was a nice run by Brissett, and he didn't throw any picks, but that kind of performance does not win most games.  Against Miami, it was 21-0 when Brissett came in, and they were out scored 24-10 the rest of the way.

Brady won countless games on his own merits.  Jimmy won one, but Brissett just managed to not lose.  Seriously.

Also, I'm not a Pats fan.  I would have happily had Tom Brady as my team's quarterback for most of the last 15 years (although as a Broncos fan, Peyton did give me a couple of nice years -- but 2002-2012, and beginning again this year, I would have loved to have Brady.)
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: Donoghus on September 24, 2016, 09:44:06 AM
Looks like we found our #hotsportztake of the day.  I'll put on the shades.  8)

I'd love to know what that "system" is. They've only reinvented the offense about 4-5 times in 15 years.
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: dreamgreen on September 24, 2016, 09:47:33 AM
Every team has a system, you need the right players to fit the system, great players make the system great.

Let me ask this was Joe Montana a system QB? He played in the West Coast system.

Brady is in the discussion for GOAT!
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: dannyboy35 on September 24, 2016, 02:27:54 PM
Could care less who the greatest is. They win so cool. Montana can be better. Who cares?
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: incoherent on September 24, 2016, 02:52:50 PM
Could care less who the greatest is. They win so cool. Montana can be better. Who cares?

did you really post on a sports-related interest thread to spout some nonsense about who could possibly care who is better at something?

Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: JSD on September 24, 2016, 03:07:28 PM
Steve Young experienced success after Montana, does that make Montana a "system quarterback"? This is so silly
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: dannyboy35 on September 24, 2016, 03:15:12 PM
Yeah. Just like I don't care if bird or magic is better.  I care about the Celtics being better than the lakers. I guess I could have said, " I could care less."
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: 86MaxwellSmart on September 24, 2016, 03:15:48 PM
Steve Young experienced success after Montana, does that make Montana a "system quarterback"? This is so silly

Actually it proves it....the old-timers called their own plays....Unitas, etc.
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: Csfan1984 on September 24, 2016, 03:25:22 PM
Of course he is a system guy no hot dogging allowed.
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: kraidstar on September 24, 2016, 04:16:56 PM
I suspect that if Jimmy and Jacoby were throwing to Givens, Gaffney, Patten, Fauria, Wiggins and the other relatve flotsam that he's had in championship seasons, they may not have looked as good.  With Bennett, Gronk, Edelman, Amendola, Hogan and Mitchell, this is as deep and versatile (all great blockers) a receiving group that BB has ever assembled.  I cant wait to see what the GOAT is able to do with that lineup and a solid defense.

TP

This team is stacked right now, aside from the mediocre offensive line.

Those early Pats title teams weren't anything special offensively, Brady elevated sub-par talent when it counted. Russell Wilson is in a similar situation in Seattle.
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: Eja117 on September 24, 2016, 04:18:19 PM
The system just has to not involve an idiot like Lloyd Carr trying to replace him with Drew Henson because Drew might go play for the Yankees.
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: kraidstar on September 24, 2016, 04:32:01 PM
Belichick had one playoff appearance and a 37-45 record with the Browns and a 5-13 record with the Patriots before Tom Brady became a starter. Fact. In comparison Pete Carroll went 28-23 with Bledsoe and the Pats and got canned. IMO Belichick was on the same trajectory, and if he hadn't drafted Brady, he likely would have been fired a long time ago.

TB12 has succeeded with every OC he has had.

Tom helped create the "system" we have now - he is a hard worker, and you can bet he has major input and insight into what to do, and what works.

Belichick has always been a great coach, and has also become a fantastic talent evaluator. Garoppolo is a great prospect IMO, and could be a future Pro Bowler. BB has grown and improved, and has filled in the cracks after some earlier poor drafting that led to some very bad defensive play in the 2008-2012 seasons. He deserves a ton of credit. But without Brady I don't think he lasts long enough to get as good as he is.
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: colincb on September 24, 2016, 05:46:00 PM
No. The Patriots are renown for having a different game plan each week. When Brady first started he was, but every QB starting out has game plans tailored to what they know or can do at that point in time (See Thursday night's game.) Brady knows everything at this point in his career.
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: mctyson on September 24, 2016, 08:31:34 PM
with the recent successes of various QBs in Bellichek's system is Tom mostly a product of the system?

All QBs are system QBs.
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: Eja117 on September 24, 2016, 10:25:39 PM
with the recent successes of various QBs in Bellichek's system is Tom mostly a product of the system?

All QBs are system QBs.
And if a QB decides he's just gonna wing it like maybe Brett Farve they're usually a terrible QB
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: Cman on September 24, 2016, 10:51:30 PM
No. The Patriots are renown for having a different game plan each week. When Brady first started he was, but every QB starting out has game plans tailored to what they know or can do at that point in time (See Thursday night's game.) Brady knows everything at this point in his career.

Totally agree with this.

Also, while I love that the Pats have won the last three games, let's keep a bit of perspective about these things. It's a long season, Pats have a long way to go.
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: jayk009 on September 24, 2016, 11:45:08 PM
Tom Brady is a system QB the same way that Tim Duncan is a system PF.
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: Eja117 on January 21, 2018, 06:24:22 PM
If the system is being the greatest of all time then he's definitely a system QB.

Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: Phantom255x on January 21, 2018, 06:53:55 PM
Yes. That system is why every throw Brady makes reaches the receivers at the right spots.

 ::)   :laugh:
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: kozlodoev on January 21, 2018, 07:26:04 PM
Yes. That system is why every throw Brady makes reaches the receivers at the right spots.

 ::)   :laugh:
Well, as you know, he can't throw it AND catch it. Gisele said so.
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: Eja117 on January 21, 2018, 07:32:04 PM
Did people used to ask this about guys like Montana and Aikman? I mean really? How about Manning? What's his excuse with all those Pro Bowl WRs and his Pro Bowl LT and RB and TE?
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: IDreamCeltics on January 21, 2018, 07:59:52 PM
It's good that this question is finally being asked.
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: colincb on January 21, 2018, 08:09:59 PM
It's good that this question is finally being asked.

TP to you and the OP. I've been wondering about this for 18 years and nobody has been brave enough to ask.
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: Ilikesports17 on January 21, 2018, 08:13:44 PM
It's good that this question is finally being asked.

TP to you and the OP. I've been wondering about this for 18 years and nobody has been brave enough to ask.
I really cant tell if you 2 are joking. But Ill give yall the benefit of the doubt here.
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: nickagneta on January 21, 2018, 08:19:26 PM
Hahahaha!!!😂😂😂😂

God this is funny!!! ROFL

Haha. Ha.     Ha.

Wait. This is a serious question?

HAHAHAHA!!! OMG!!!! That's even funnier!!!!
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: Ilikesports17 on January 21, 2018, 08:22:21 PM
Hahahaha!!!😂😂😂😂

God this is funny!!! ROFL

Haha. Ha.     Ha.

Wait. This is a serious question?

HAHAHAHA!!! OMG!!!! That's even funnier!!!!
no no no because Matt Cassel almost made the playoffs, we can confidently say that Brady is just a product of the system.

What we need to examine now, is how good is the Chiefs system. They actually did make the playoffs with Cassel. Todd Haley > Belichick confirmed?
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: Boris Badenov on January 21, 2018, 08:43:49 PM
No question. If you put any schmuck back there for the last 18 years he could've had 8 trips to the Super Bowl. Yawn.
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: Eja117 on January 21, 2018, 09:00:10 PM
The system QB has been to twice as many Super Bowls as Joe Montana.

He has been in more Super Bowls than Terry Bradshaw and Troy Aikman combined.

He has more Super Bowl wins than Peyton and Eli and Archie Manning combined.

The following QBs have started between 2 and 4 Super Bowls.....Jim Kelly, Kurt Warner, Fran Tarkenton, Len Dawson, Joe Theisman, Brett Farve, Russell Wilson, Craig Morton....Tom Brady has won as many Super Bowls as those QBs combined.

He is way beyond GOAT. He's in legend territory. 
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: KGs Knee on January 21, 2018, 09:29:09 PM
He has more Super Bowl wins than Peyton and Eli and Archie Manning combined.

Eli owns Tom.  Spoiled his perfect season.

Just look it up.  The record don't lie.

Eli-2

Tom-0

No other argument is relevant because I said so.  Only my opinion matters, yours doesn't.
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: Eja117 on January 21, 2018, 09:30:27 PM
Well let's see Eli make it to another Super Bowl or two to challenge Tom....oh...wait. Wait....he can't. He can't because....if the Giants want to go the playoffs...they need to buy tickets.
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: Fan from VT on January 21, 2018, 09:33:38 PM
Did people used to ask this about guys like Montana and Aikman? I mean really? How about Manning? What's his excuse with all those Pro Bowl WRs and his Pro Bowl LT and RB and TE?

Yeah, Manning's system was having Edgerin James in his prime, Marvin Harrison, then Reggie Wayne... Aikman had a system too: have your O-line from one of the best/worst trades in NFL history (Hershel Walker), Emmitt, and Irvin. Good "systems."

If this actually became a thing, I would love Brady to pull an Embiid and embrace the nickname "The System." Actually sounds kind of intimidating. "Hi. Resistance is futile. I am The System."
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: green_bballers13 on January 22, 2018, 12:30:45 AM
Is Jesus a system savior?

Good point. He wouldn't be a good savior for other planets. Just this one.

Same with Brady. He wouldn't be a very good football player on Mars. Fortunately he gets to play here on Earth with us. For this particular planetary system, he's a good fit.
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: Ilikesports17 on January 22, 2018, 12:38:35 AM
Yes. That system is why every throw Brady makes reaches the receivers at the right spots.

 ::)   :laugh:
Well, as you know, he can't throw it AND catch it. Gisele said so.
hes no Mariota. Thats for sure.
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: SparzWizard on January 22, 2018, 12:54:29 AM
He has more Super Bowl wins than Peyton and Eli and Archie Manning combined.

Eli owns Tom.  Spoiled his perfect season.

Just look it up.  The record don't lie.

Eli-2

Tom-0

No other argument is relevant because I said so.  Only my opinion matters, yours doesn't.

You mean the defense owned the Patriots in those two Superbowls
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: OnPoint on January 22, 2018, 04:33:06 AM
Nobody ever said that about Montana after Young took over and won a Super Bowl. Why does it always come up with Brady?


- Cassell took over a team that went 16-0 the previous season and went 11-5... That’s -5 wins.
- Jimmy G won 2 regular season games with a team in the midst of another potential dynasty.
- Jacoby went 1-1 with what Jimmy G was working with.

Brady took over for Bledsoe and lead an Patriot team that came out of nowhere, to a SB win.
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: kozlodoev on January 22, 2018, 07:09:36 AM
Yes. That system is why every throw Brady makes reaches the receivers at the right spots.

 ::)   :laugh:
Well, as you know, he can't throw it AND catch it. Gisele said so.
hes no Mariota. Thats for sure.
He's also no Jimmy G.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000700917/Garoppolo-completes-pass-to-himself

Should have kept Jimmy :P
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: green_bballers13 on January 22, 2018, 09:03:17 AM
Nobody ever said that about Montana after Young took over and won a Super Bowl. Why does it always come up with Brady?


- Cassell took over a team that went 16-0 the previous season and went 11-5... That’s -5 wins.
- Jimmy G won 2 regular season games with a team in the midst of another potential dynasty.
- Jacoby went 1-1 with what Jimmy G was working with.

Brady took over for Bledsoe and lead an Patriot team that came out of nowhere, to a SB win.

1) Jealousy
2) Because hater gonna hate. It's what they do best.
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: Redz on January 22, 2018, 11:13:49 AM
He has more Super Bowl wins than Peyton and Eli and Archie Manning combined.

Eli owns Tom.  Spoiled his perfect season.

Just look it up.  The record don't lie.

Eli-2

Tom-0

No other argument is relevant because I said so.  Only my opinion matters, yours doesn't.

Eli threw up a blind Hail Mary that a guy caught with his helmet (a guy who never caught another NFL pass BTW).
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on January 22, 2018, 11:31:42 AM
He has more Super Bowl wins than Peyton and Eli and Archie Manning combined.

Eli owns Tom.  Spoiled his perfect season.

Just look it up.  The record don't lie.

Eli-2

Tom-0

No other argument is relevant because I said so.  Only my opinion matters, yours doesn't.

Eli threw up a blind Hail Mary that a guy caught with his helmet (a guy who never caught another NFL pass BTW).

That's how good Eli was, he passed it so well even a dude that never caught another NFL pass could catch it. =P
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: johnnygreen on January 22, 2018, 02:24:05 PM
Nobody ever said that about Montana after Young took over and won a Super Bowl. Why does it always come up with Brady?


- Cassell took over a team that went 16-0 the previous season and went 11-5... That’s -5 wins.
- Jimmy G won 2 regular season games with a team in the midst of another potential dynasty.
- Jacoby went 1-1 with what Jimmy G was working with.

Brady took over for Bledsoe and lead an Patriot team that came out of nowhere, to a SB win.


Do people still downplay Cassell's year when he went 11-5? When was the last Super Bowl loser that had another great season the following year? There always seems to be some sort of drop off. And are people going to compare a veteran quarterback in Brady to a guy who hadn't started a game since high school? The drop off should have been more like 10-12 games. Lets also not forget, Cassell had very little preparation for playing the starting role when Brady went down a few minutes into the 2008 season. BTW, when Brady came back in 2009, the Pats went 10-6, which was worse than Cassell's 11-5 mark. Funny how that never gets mentioned.
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: Donoghus on January 22, 2018, 02:46:00 PM
Nobody ever said that about Montana after Young took over and won a Super Bowl. Why does it always come up with Brady?


- Cassell took over a team that went 16-0 the previous season and went 11-5... That’s -5 wins.
- Jimmy G won 2 regular season games with a team in the midst of another potential dynasty.
- Jacoby went 1-1 with what Jimmy G was working with.

Brady took over for Bledsoe and lead an Patriot team that came out of nowhere, to a SB win.


Do people still downplay Cassell's year when he went 11-5? When was the last Super Bowl loser that had another great season the following year? There always seems to be some sort of drop off. And are people going to compare a veteran quarterback in Brady to a guy who hadn't started a game since high school? The drop off should have been more like 10-12 games. Lets also not forget, Cassell had very little preparation for playing the starting role when Brady went down a few minutes into the 2008 season. BTW, when Brady came back in 2009, the Pats went 10-6, which was worse than Cassell's 11-5 mark. Funny how that never gets mentioned.

That '09 team had plenty of warts.  Outside of maybe the '02 squad, probably the worst Pats team of the Belichick/Brady era ('00 excluded when Brady wasn't the starter).
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: johnnygreen on January 22, 2018, 05:26:47 PM
Nobody ever said that about Montana after Young took over and won a Super Bowl. Why does it always come up with Brady?


- Cassell took over a team that went 16-0 the previous season and went 11-5... That’s -5 wins.
- Jimmy G won 2 regular season games with a team in the midst of another potential dynasty.
- Jacoby went 1-1 with what Jimmy G was working with.

Brady took over for Bledsoe and lead an Patriot team that came out of nowhere, to a SB win.


Do people still downplay Cassell's year when he went 11-5? When was the last Super Bowl loser that had another great season the following year? There always seems to be some sort of drop off. And are people going to compare a veteran quarterback in Brady to a guy who hadn't started a game since high school? The drop off should have been more like 10-12 games. Lets also not forget, Cassell had very little preparation for playing the starting role when Brady went down a few minutes into the 2008 season. BTW, when Brady came back in 2009, the Pats went 10-6, which was worse than Cassell's 11-5 mark. Funny how that never gets mentioned.

That '09 team had plenty of warts.  Outside of maybe the '02 squad, probably the worst Pats team of the Belichick/Brady era ('00 excluded when Brady wasn't the starter).

I'm sorry, but that sounds like a poor excuse.
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: johnnygreen on January 22, 2018, 05:36:17 PM
I think I would have had a greater respect for Brady if the Pats had traded him instead of Garoppolo. For me, the only reason that seems to make sense is if the Pats were trying to protect his legacy at the supposed GOAT. Which means the Pats claim to having the best player of all time in the NFL. What would have happened to the GOAT status, if he is traded to another team and goes 9-7 or 10-6 and is one and done in the playoffs or misses them completely for the next 4 years or so? During that same time, what if Garoppolo was winning a Super Bowl or two with the same team that Brady once had? Wouldn't that seem to indicate that Bellichik could have won with anybody and didn't need Brady?

I'm just happy that Danny Ainge is in charge of making those decisions for my favorite team. I loved Pierce and Garnett, but Danny made the right call in trading them.

BTW, am I the only person that thought of Pierce's post game press conference (after the Game 6 vs Pacers in 2005) where he wore the gauze/ace bandage, after seeing Brady wear those red gloves during his Friday press conference before the Jaguars game?
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: Donoghus on January 22, 2018, 05:41:58 PM
Nobody ever said that about Montana after Young took over and won a Super Bowl. Why does it always come up with Brady?


- Cassell took over a team that went 16-0 the previous season and went 11-5... That’s -5 wins.
- Jimmy G won 2 regular season games with a team in the midst of another potential dynasty.
- Jacoby went 1-1 with what Jimmy G was working with.

Brady took over for Bledsoe and lead an Patriot team that came out of nowhere, to a SB win.


Do people still downplay Cassell's year when he went 11-5? When was the last Super Bowl loser that had another great season the following year? There always seems to be some sort of drop off. And are people going to compare a veteran quarterback in Brady to a guy who hadn't started a game since high school? The drop off should have been more like 10-12 games. Lets also not forget, Cassell had very little preparation for playing the starting role when Brady went down a few minutes into the 2008 season. BTW, when Brady came back in 2009, the Pats went 10-6, which was worse than Cassell's 11-5 mark. Funny how that never gets mentioned.

That '09 team had plenty of warts.  Outside of maybe the '02 squad, probably the worst Pats team of the Belichick/Brady era ('00 excluded when Brady wasn't the starter).

I'm sorry, but that sounds like a poor excuse.

Rosters vary from year to year.   Harrison, Bruschi, Vrabel, & Seymour were all gone.  McDaniels went to Denver. That's tough to bounce back from.   They brought in a bunch of crap free agents that didn't amount to much.

It was a transition team and not a very good one at that.

The reason the drop in record doesn't get discussed was because people know the '09 team was inferior to the '08 team.
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: green_bballers13 on January 22, 2018, 06:02:52 PM
I think I would have had a greater respect for Brady if the Pats had traded him instead of Garoppolo. For me, the only reason that seems to make sense is if the Pats were trying to protect his legacy at the supposed GOAT. Which means the Pats claim to having the best player of all time in the NFL. What would have happened to the GOAT status, if he is traded to another team and goes 9-7 or 10-6 and is one and done in the playoffs or misses them completely for the next 4 years or so? During that same time, what if Garoppolo was winning a Super Bowl or two with the same team that Brady once had? Wouldn't that seem to indicate that Bellichik could have won with anybody and didn't need Brady?

I'm just happy that Danny Ainge is in charge of making those decisions for my favorite team. I loved Pierce and Garnett, but Danny made the right call in trading them.

BTW, am I the only person that thought of Pierce's post game press conference (after the Game 6 vs Pacers in 2005) where he wore the gauze/ace bandage, after seeing Brady wear those red gloves during his Friday press conference before the Jaguars game?

Crazy idea: what if Tom Brady was, is, and will continue to be better than Jimmy G?

Shocker- I know.

KG and Pierce showed that they were slowing down. Danny made the call to trade them after realizing that they were near the end. Neither had much success after leaving Boston.

You would have a point if Brady wasn't still the best player in the NFL.

I love KG and Pierce, but you cannot compare them to Tom Brady.
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: GetLucky on January 22, 2018, 06:11:47 PM
Nobody ever said that about Montana after Young took over and won a Super Bowl. Why does it always come up with Brady?


- Cassell took over a team that went 16-0 the previous season and went 11-5... That’s -5 wins.
- Jimmy G won 2 regular season games with a team in the midst of another potential dynasty.
- Jacoby went 1-1 with what Jimmy G was working with.

Brady took over for Bledsoe and lead an Patriot team that came out of nowhere, to a SB win.


Do people still downplay Cassell's year when he went 11-5? When was the last Super Bowl loser that had another great season the following year? There always seems to be some sort of drop off. And are people going to compare a veteran quarterback in Brady to a guy who hadn't started a game since high school? The drop off should have been more like 10-12 games. Lets also not forget, Cassell had very little preparation for playing the starting role when Brady went down a few minutes into the 2008 season. BTW, when Brady came back in 2009, the Pats went 10-6, which was worse than Cassell's 11-5 mark. Funny how that never gets mentioned.

Man, if Cassell had won a Super Bowl that season, it would have been such an amazing feat. But I guess it would take the hypothetical greatest quarterback of all time to do something like lead a team to a Super Bowl victory after having no preseason reps as a starter.
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: OnPoint on January 22, 2018, 06:33:44 PM
Nobody ever said that about Montana after Young took over and won a Super Bowl. Why does it always come up with Brady?


- Cassell took over a team that went 16-0 the previous season and went 11-5... That’s -5 wins.
- Jimmy G won 2 regular season games with a team in the midst of another potential dynasty.
- Jacoby went 1-1 with what Jimmy G was working with.

Brady took over for Bledsoe and lead an Patriot team that came out of nowhere, to a SB win.


Do people still downplay Cassell's year when he went 11-5? When was the last Super Bowl loser that had another great season the following year? There always seems to be some sort of drop off. And are people going to compare a veteran quarterback in Brady to a guy who hadn't started a game since high school? The drop off should have been more like 10-12 games. Lets also not forget, Cassell had very little preparation for playing the starting role when Brady went down a few minutes into the 2008 season. BTW, when Brady came back in 2009, the Pats went 10-6, which was worse than Cassell's 11-5 mark. Funny how that never gets mentioned.

That '09 team had plenty of warts.  Outside of maybe the '02 squad, probably the worst Pats team of the Belichick/Brady era ('00 excluded when Brady wasn't the starter).

I'm sorry, but that sounds like a poor excuse.

Rosters vary from year to year.   Harrison, Bruschi, Vrabel, & Seymour were all gone.  McDaniels went to Denver. That's tough to bounce back from.   They brought in a bunch of crap free agents that didn't amount to much.

It was a transition team and not a very good one at that.

The reason the drop in record doesn't get discussed was because people know the '09 team was inferior to the '08 team.

well said
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: Ilikesports17 on January 22, 2018, 06:57:43 PM
I think I would have had a greater respect for Brady if the Pats had traded him instead of Garoppolo. For me, the only reason that seems to make sense is if the Pats were trying to protect his legacy at the supposed GOAT. Which means the Pats claim to having the best player of all time in the NFL. What would have happened to the GOAT status, if he is traded to another team and goes 9-7 or 10-6 and is one and done in the playoffs or misses them completely for the next 4 years or so? During that same time, what if Garoppolo was winning a Super Bowl or two with the same team that Brady once had? Wouldn't that seem to indicate that Bellichik could have won with anybody and didn't need Brady?

I'm just happy that Danny Ainge is in charge of making those decisions for my favorite team. I loved Pierce and Garnett, but Danny made the right call in trading them.

BTW, am I the only person that thought of Pierce's post game press conference (after the Game 6 vs Pacers in 2005) where he wore the gauze/ace bandage, after seeing Brady wear those red gloves during his Friday press conference before the Jaguars game?
You are reaching like crazy.

This is why its tough to talk to Pats haters. They just contort things until they have a narrative they feel happy with.

Why doesnt it make sense that maybe Brady is actually so good that Belichick thought it was the best decision to move on from Jimmy G because as good as Jimmy G is, he's not worth moving on from Brady because what Brady offers you at the QB position is so superlative.
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: gouki88 on January 22, 2018, 07:00:01 PM
I think I would have had a greater respect for Brady if the Pats had traded him instead of Garoppolo. For me, the only reason that seems to make sense is if the Pats were trying to protect his legacy at the supposed GOAT. Which means the Pats claim to having the best player of all time in the NFL. What would have happened to the GOAT status, if he is traded to another team and goes 9-7 or 10-6 and is one and done in the playoffs or misses them completely for the next 4 years or so? During that same time, what if Garoppolo was winning a Super Bowl or two with the same team that Brady once had? Wouldn't that seem to indicate that Bellichik could have won with anybody and didn't need Brady?

I'm just happy that Danny Ainge is in charge of making those decisions for my favorite team. I loved Pierce and Garnett, but Danny made the right call in trading them.

BTW, am I the only person that thought of Pierce's post game press conference (after the Game 6 vs Pacers in 2005) where he wore the gauze/ace bandage, after seeing Brady wear those red gloves during his Friday press conference before the Jaguars game?
You are reaching like crazy.

This is why its tough to talk to Pats haters. They just contort things until they have a narrative they feel happy with.

Why doesnt it make sense that maybe Brady is actually so good that Belichick thought it was the best decision to move on from Jimmy G because as good as Jimmy G is, he's not worth moving on from Brady because what Brady offers you at the QB position is so superlative.
Yeah, lol, insanity
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: Ilikesports17 on January 22, 2018, 07:00:18 PM
Nobody ever said that about Montana after Young took over and won a Super Bowl. Why does it always come up with Brady?


- Cassell took over a team that went 16-0 the previous season and went 11-5... That’s -5 wins.
- Jimmy G won 2 regular season games with a team in the midst of another potential dynasty.
- Jacoby went 1-1 with what Jimmy G was working with.

Brady took over for Bledsoe and lead an Patriot team that came out of nowhere, to a SB win.


Do people still downplay Cassell's year when he went 11-5? When was the last Super Bowl loser that had another great season the following year? There always seems to be some sort of drop off. And are people going to compare a veteran quarterback in Brady to a guy who hadn't started a game since high school? The drop off should have been more like 10-12 games. Lets also not forget, Cassell had very little preparation for playing the starting role when Brady went down a few minutes into the 2008 season. BTW, when Brady came back in 2009, the Pats went 10-6, which was worse than Cassell's 11-5 mark. Funny how that never gets mentioned.
2009 team had way less talent than the 08 team which was very similar to the 07 team.

Brady threw 50 TDs broke all kinds of records and led his team to a 16-0 record. The next year Cassell threw 21 TDs and went 11-5 failing to make the playoffs.

People also make Cassell out to be some kind of scrub. He made a pro-bowl and led the Chiefs to the playoffs 2 years later.
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: green_bballers13 on January 22, 2018, 07:44:03 PM
I think I would have had a greater respect for Brady if the Pats had traded him instead of Garoppolo. For me, the only reason that seems to make sense is if the Pats were trying to protect his legacy at the supposed GOAT. Which means the Pats claim to having the best player of all time in the NFL. What would have happened to the GOAT status, if he is traded to another team and goes 9-7 or 10-6 and is one and done in the playoffs or misses them completely for the next 4 years or so? During that same time, what if Garoppolo was winning a Super Bowl or two with the same team that Brady once had? Wouldn't that seem to indicate that Bellichik could have won with anybody and didn't need Brady?

I'm just happy that Danny Ainge is in charge of making those decisions for my favorite team. I loved Pierce and Garnett, but Danny made the right call in trading them.

BTW, am I the only person that thought of Pierce's post game press conference (after the Game 6 vs Pacers in 2005) where he wore the gauze/ace bandage, after seeing Brady wear those red gloves during his Friday press conference before the Jaguars game?
You are reaching like crazy.

This is why its tough to talk to Pats haters. They just contort things until they have a narrative they feel happy with.

Why doesnt it make sense that maybe Brady is actually so good that Belichick thought it was the best decision to move on from Jimmy G because as good as Jimmy G is, he's not worth moving on from Brady because what Brady offers you at the QB position is so superlative.

That being said, I would probably be a hater too if I wasn't a Pats fan. Watching them run train on the rest of the league for the last 18 years must be infuriating for 95% of America.

Go Pats!
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: Eja117 on January 22, 2018, 07:54:45 PM
I think I would have had a greater respect for Brady if the Pats had traded him instead of Garoppolo. For me, the only reason that seems to make sense is if the Pats were trying to protect his legacy at the supposed GOAT. Which means the Pats claim to having the best player of all time in the NFL. What would have happened to the GOAT status, if he is traded to another team and goes 9-7 or 10-6 and is one and done in the playoffs or misses them completely for the next 4 years or so? During that same time, what if Garoppolo was winning a Super Bowl or two with the same team that Brady once had? Wouldn't that seem to indicate that Bellichik could have won with anybody and didn't need Brady?

I'm just happy that Danny Ainge is in charge of making those decisions for my favorite team. I loved Pierce and Garnett, but Danny made the right call in trading them.

BTW, am I the only person that thought of Pierce's post game press conference (after the Game 6 vs Pacers in 2005) where he wore the gauze/ace bandage, after seeing Brady wear those red gloves during his Friday press conference before the Jaguars game?
You are reaching like crazy.

This is why its tough to talk to Pats haters. They just contort things until they have a narrative they feel happy with.

Why doesnt it make sense that maybe Brady is actually so good that Belichick thought it was the best decision to move on from Jimmy G because as good as Jimmy G is, he's not worth moving on from Brady because what Brady offers you at the QB position is so superlative.

That being said, I would probably be a hater too if I wasn't a Pats fan. Watching them run train on the rest of the league for the last 18 years must be infuriating for 95% of America.

Go Pats!
Definitely....if some random team like...idk...the Carolina Panthers were to go on a 20 year run of dominance I'd definitely hate them.  Some teams are easier for me to hate than others.
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: green_bballers13 on January 22, 2018, 10:11:33 PM
I think I would have had a greater respect for Brady if the Pats had traded him instead of Garoppolo. For me, the only reason that seems to make sense is if the Pats were trying to protect his legacy at the supposed GOAT. Which means the Pats claim to having the best player of all time in the NFL. What would have happened to the GOAT status, if he is traded to another team and goes 9-7 or 10-6 and is one and done in the playoffs or misses them completely for the next 4 years or so? During that same time, what if Garoppolo was winning a Super Bowl or two with the same team that Brady once had? Wouldn't that seem to indicate that Bellichik could have won with anybody and didn't need Brady?

I'm just happy that Danny Ainge is in charge of making those decisions for my favorite team. I loved Pierce and Garnett, but Danny made the right call in trading them.

BTW, am I the only person that thought of Pierce's post game press conference (after the Game 6 vs Pacers in 2005) where he wore the gauze/ace bandage, after seeing Brady wear those red gloves during his Friday press conference before the Jaguars game?
You are reaching like crazy.

This is why its tough to talk to Pats haters. They just contort things until they have a narrative they feel happy with.

Why doesnt it make sense that maybe Brady is actually so good that Belichick thought it was the best decision to move on from Jimmy G because as good as Jimmy G is, he's not worth moving on from Brady because what Brady offers you at the QB position is so superlative.

That being said, I would probably be a hater too if I wasn't a Pats fan. Watching them run train on the rest of the league for the last 18 years must be infuriating for 95% of America.

Go Pats!
Definitely....if some random team like...idk...the Carolina Panthers were to go on a 20 year run of dominance I'd definitely hate them.  Some teams are easier for me to hate than others.

The Pats also have a couple of other things that make people mad/jealous:

1) Gronk- who doesn't want a monster tight end with a great name and an even better attitude. The guy likes to score TDs, spike footballs, and bang hot chicks.

2) Brady- the perfect male. If I grew up in NY, I would want to punch him right in his square jaw.

3) Belichick- what a smug Edited for profanity.  Please do not do it again.. Guy has never given a good interview. He never seems happy. He's the opposite of Rex Ryan- he doesn't care about the viewer at home whatsoever.
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: johnnygreen on January 23, 2018, 10:42:53 AM
Where did I say that I hated the Patriots? I'm a 43 year old Pats fan, who used to go to Sullivan Stadium on a yearly basis to see games. Not for nothing, but from the comments I see they make it seem like they're coming from Brady fans, and not necessarily Pats fans. You know, Pink hats.

I honestly believe the Pats could have continued this run with Garoppolo, as long as Bill Belichick was the head coach. To me, Bill is the key to this whole thing. I'm sorry, but Brady not falling off a cliff performance wise for the remainder of the rest of his 2-3 year career seems riskier than Garoppolo not being able to enjoy continued team success for the next 8-10 years. Keeping Brady just seems too short sighted, especially when they had an heir apparent, which is so hard to come by.
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: Eja117 on January 23, 2018, 11:25:37 AM
I think I would have had a greater respect for Brady if the Pats had traded him instead of Garoppolo. For me, the only reason that seems to make sense is if the Pats were trying to protect his legacy at the supposed GOAT. Which means the Pats claim to having the best player of all time in the NFL. What would have happened to the GOAT status, if he is traded to another team and goes 9-7 or 10-6 and is one and done in the playoffs or misses them completely for the next 4 years or so? During that same time, what if Garoppolo was winning a Super Bowl or two with the same team that Brady once had? Wouldn't that seem to indicate that Bellichik could have won with anybody and didn't need Brady?

I'm just happy that Danny Ainge is in charge of making those decisions for my favorite team. I loved Pierce and Garnett, but Danny made the right call in trading them.

BTW, am I the only person that thought of Pierce's post game press conference (after the Game 6 vs Pacers in 2005) where he wore the gauze/ace bandage, after seeing Brady wear those red gloves during his Friday press conference before the Jaguars game?
No, because Belichick had a Pro Bowl QB named Drew Bledsoe and wasn't doing anything with him.
He also had a Pro Bowl QB when he was coach of the Browns and wasn't able to do anything there either.
Brady made Belichick not the other way around. Notice what happens to most coaches when they leave New England. They should be able to take Bill's system with them and make respectable teams. Doesn't happen.
Whereas I  guarantee Brady on another team with another competent coach....boom.
Trade him straight up to the Texans. Let McDaniels take him with him. See what happens.
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: KGs Knee on January 23, 2018, 11:41:02 AM
I think I would have had a greater respect for Brady if the Pats had traded him instead of Garoppolo. For me, the only reason that seems to make sense is if the Pats were trying to protect his legacy at the supposed GOAT. Which means the Pats claim to having the best player of all time in the NFL. What would have happened to the GOAT status, if he is traded to another team and goes 9-7 or 10-6 and is one and done in the playoffs or misses them completely for the next 4 years or so? During that same time, what if Garoppolo was winning a Super Bowl or two with the same team that Brady once had? Wouldn't that seem to indicate that Bellichik could have won with anybody and didn't need Brady?

I'm just happy that Danny Ainge is in charge of making those decisions for my favorite team. I loved Pierce and Garnett, but Danny made the right call in trading them.

BTW, am I the only person that thought of Pierce's post game press conference (after the Game 6 vs Pacers in 2005) where he wore the gauze/ace bandage, after seeing Brady wear those red gloves during his Friday press conference before the Jaguars game?
No, because Belichick had a Pro Bowl QB named Drew Bledsoe and wasn't doing anything with him.
He also had a Pro Bowl QB when he was coach of the Browns and wasn't able to do anything there either.
Brady made Belichick not the other way around. Notice what happens to most coaches when they leave New England. They should be able to take Bill's system with them and make respectable teams. Doesn't happen.
Whereas I  guarantee Brady on another team with another competent coach....boom.
Trade him straight up to the Texans. Let McDaniels take him with him. See what happens.

I really would have liked to see one or the other leave, just to prove it one way or the other. Unfortunately that is unlikely to happen before Brady retires, so we'll really never know.

Personally, I think Brady has been very fortunate. His career looked like it was on the downswing, but then he was gifted Gronk. Somehow Belichick always finds a way to make chicken salad out of chicken sh...
Title: Re: Is Tom Brady a system QB
Post by: jambr380 on January 23, 2018, 11:48:25 AM
I really would have liked to see one or the other leave, just to prove it one way or the other. Unfortunately that is unlikely to happen before Brady retires, so we'll really never know.

Personally, I think Brady has been very fortunate. His career looked like it was on the downswing, but then he was gifted Gronk. Somehow Belichick always finds a way to make chicken salad out of chicken sh...

Your last statement certainly isn't untrue, but Gronk hasn't been essential to the Pats success. We won a SB last year without him and the comeback yesterday occurred after he went down. He is certainly an asset, especially without Edleman, but Brady has proven he can make a system work with just about any receiving core. If Welker had just made that one 'Danny Amendola-like' catch (from the Jags game) in the 2012 SB, we might be talking about grabbing SB #7 for Brady/Belichick (and let's not even talk about the helmet catch...ugghh!!)