CelticsStrong
Other Discussions => Other / General Sports => Patriots / Football => Topic started by: PhoSita on September 09, 2016, 12:00:54 AM
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Well, in tonight's opener we got a game that was a dang sight better than the last real NFL game we saw.
Still ....
You gotta love that last-minute, brutal, helmet-to-helmet torpedo hit on one of the game's biggest stars, with no real consequences, just to remind you how freaking stupid the NFL is.
https://vine.co/v/5Jzvjw1Peaz
This should be a SUSPENSION. Period. They cannot keep allowing this type of play. It has to be out of the game.
Ah well. NFL is back! For whatever that's worth.
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Here are some highlights of the amazingly skilled defensive plays the Broncos made on Cam last night.
https://twitter.com/its__Extreme/status/774108019466444800?s=09
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I was pretty shocked the Broncos didn't draw more flags.
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The Marshall hit was textbook personal foul conduct. So that was pretty egregious.
All things being said, its good to having meaningful NFL football back even if the league office & much of the officiating is a farce.
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I was pretty shocked the Broncos didn't draw more flags.
Seems that there are always teams who build a reputation as a "great defensive team," which then allows them to get away with a lot more.
The Ravens, Jets, and 49ers a few years ago were like that. More recently, the Seahawks and now the Broncos.
I'm not anti-defense, I just want the best defensive plays to involve tactics that require skill.
You don't need a lot of skill to launch yourself helmet-first at an opposing player, especially when they player is facing away from you, or is immobilized by another defender wrapped around his lower legs.
Yet those launching hits tend to do a huge amount of damage, whether in terms of twisting / impact injuries to bones and ligaments, or repeated concussive impacts to the head and upper body.
How about you play great defense by way of speed, intelligence, positioning, strength, and great tackling technique?
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I was pretty shocked the Broncos didn't draw more flags.
I guess it's kinda like LeBron hardly ever getting fouls called on him—if you're known as a great player (or in this case a great defensive unit), you get away with a lot of crap.
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I was pretty shocked the Broncos didn't draw more flags.
I guess it's kinda like LeBron hardly ever getting fouls called on him—if you're known as a great player (or in this case a great defensive unit), you get away with a lot of crap.
Here's the thing I don't get about this, though -- Cam Newton is the reigning league MVP, one of the league's biggest stars.
Why doesn't the NFL prioritize protecting him from getting bombarded repeatedly by defenders flying at him full-speed, helmet-first?
In the NBA, yes the stars get some crazy calls, but at least the bias of the referees is toward protecting the stars from excessive physical contact. Because sure, to really stop a guy like LeBron, or Shaq in his day, or whoever, you need to resort to excessively physical play.
But I'd rather watch a game where the opponent is simply getting overpowered by a superlative physical talent, rather than watch a star player get hacked and beaten up to the point he literally can't see straight.
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Here are some highlights of the amazingly skilled defensive plays the Broncos made on Cam last night.
https://twitter.com/its__Extreme/status/774108019466444800?s=09
I am kind of torn on some of these. I feel like the last one was ridiculous. However, some of the other ones it does seem like they are aiming for his body and Cam lowered his head. There are two challenges here. One is that there is a benefit to hitting the quarterback as hard as possible, even mid tackle because there is a decent chance this leads to a fumble.
The other thing that I don't really know how to handle is that Cam Newton does regularly break tackles and get 5 more yards and is one of the biggest guys on the field. Sometimes it takes multiple players and a really hard hit to bring him down. In all the years watching Brady, Manning and Brees I never saw them plow through a defender and run up the field for a critical first down.
On the other hand, it is hard to advocate calling the game differently for different players based on their skillset.
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I agree that some players -- Gronk and Newton are the best examples I can think of -- make it hard to call the game the same way because of how physically gifted they are.
In that situation, I'd prefer to err on the side of calling the rules in a way that allows the offensive player to make plays, rather than allow the defensive players to resort to extremely dangerous tactics that can take the offensive player out of the game entirely.
The analogy I'd make to the NBA is players like Shaq -- would you rather watch Shaq score 50 on 70% shooting, or watch defenders endlessly hack and foul him? I don't like either option, but I'd prefer the first one. And in football, you don't get free throws. At the very least, these types of hits should result in a 1st down and 10-15 yards.
I really don't think this is so hard to identify. Defensive players should not be allowed to "launch." Period. It's dangerous for all players involved. You make a good tackle, or you don't. You don't lead with your helmet, and you don't turn yourself into a missile to try and knock them down.
This should apply to offensive players, too. Far too often I see offensive players lower their helmet toward the defender when they can see they are about to get hit.
All of this, I believe, is why some studies have indicated that football is actually less dangerous when the players don't have helmets on. When you don't have a helmet, you actually try to protect your own head!
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NFL is following the example set by beloved commissioner david stern.
That game was rigged last night to keep it close for maximum ratings. You can feel which way the refs will go based on the score.
NBA has been doing this for many years, the TNT and ESPN games are officiated for tight finishes to maximize excitement. The old "NBA Jam" effect, only it's the refs rigging it, instead of the computer.
Of course stars are prone to getting more calls... but in the moment the league just needs eyeballs watching, and no-one wants to see the broncos getting drubbed 30-10 at home on opening day.
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NFL is following the example set by beloved commissioner david stern.
That game was rigged last night to keep it close for maximum ratings. You can feel which way the refs will go based on the score.
NBA has been doing this for many years, the TNT and ESPN games are officiated for tight finishes to maximize excitement. The old "NBA Jam" effect, only it's the refs rigging it, instead of the computer.
Of course stars are prone to getting more calls... but in the moment the league just needs eyeballs watching, and no-one wants to see the broncos getting drubbed 30-10 at home on opening day.
I'm not really sure where there would be the idea that the Panthers were super hosed by the refs last night to the point of 20 point swing. I would say that Carolina was actually really fortunate to have a 10 point lead at the half. The defensive lineman catching that interception on the sack is the kind of play you constantly see opportunities for defensive linemen to make but they also really rarely catch the ball. The Broncos also had a fumble early in the game that was pretty close to the red zone. The yardage was also pretty even throughout the game. I think by all accounts that should have been a close game and not a blowout.
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The Marshall hit was textbook personal foul conduct. So that was pretty egregious.
All things being said, its good to having meaningful NFL football back even if the league office & much of the officiating is a farce.
Yeah overall its a really good game.
Though when you reflect how Cam wasn't checked for a concussion at any point during that game it shows that their "protocols" still aren't going to take primacy over the product.
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I agree that some players -- Gronk and Newton are the best examples I can think of -- make it hard to call the game the same way because of how physically gifted they are.
In that situation, I'd prefer to err on the side of calling the rules in a way that allows the offensive player to make plays, rather than allow the defensive players to resort to extremely dangerous tactics that can take the offensive player out of the game entirely.
The analogy I'd make to the NBA is players like Shaq -- would you rather watch Shaq score 50 on 70% shooting, or watch defenders endlessly hack and foul him? I don't like either option, but I'd prefer the first one. And in football, you don't get free throws. At the very least, these types of hits should result in a 1st down and 10-15 yards.
I really don't think this is so hard to identify. Defensive players should not be allowed to "launch." Period. It's dangerous for all players involved. You make a good tackle, or you don't. You don't lead with your helmet, and you don't turn yourself into a missile to try and knock them down.
This should apply to offensive players, too. Far too often I see offensive players lower their helmet toward the defender when they can see they are about to get hit.
All of this, I believe, is why some studies have indicated that football is actually less dangerous when the players don't have helmets on. When you don't have a helmet, you actually try to protect your own head!
I agree with the launching. That needs to stop. However, some of the other stuff is harder like when a guy is lowering his head to break a tackle and then gets hit in the head. To go back to the foul shooting this is kind of how i think about it and why it is tough to make a decision. It is probably one of the most common expressions in basketball to say "make em earn it at the line." It is considered a good play if you contest a layup and end up fouling the player in a way that the contact prevents the shooter from having any chance of making the basket.
With a player like Lebron or Shaq, it takes more contact to achieve that goal. If you do a light contest and Lebron still easily makes the layup it becomes an awful play instead. So should the players not be allowed to do fouls that impact Lebron the same way they impact other player's chance of making a shot? I don't necessarily know there is a simple answer to that...
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The Marshall hit was textbook personal foul conduct. So that was pretty egregious.
All things being said, its good to having meaningful NFL football back even if the league office & much of the officiating is a farce.
Yeah overall its a really good game.
Though when you reflect how Cam wasn't checked for a concussion at any point during that game it shows that their "protocols" still aren't going to take primacy over the product.
But they'll make [dang] sure they know that cold weather naturally cause the air pressure to decrease in footballs..... oh wait, nevermind.
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With a player like Lebron or Shaq, it takes more contact to achieve that goal. If you do a light contest and Lebron still easily makes the layup it becomes an awful play instead. So should the players not be allowed to do fouls that impact Lebron the same way they impact other player's chance of making a shot? I don't necessarily know there is a simple answer to that...
I think you gotta draw the line at conduct that pretty obviously has a high chance of resulting in injury, whether on an individual hit basis, or on a cumulative basis.
In basketball, it's like when you see guys, quite literally, jumping on Deandre Jordan's back to commit the foul. That's a bit much.
In football, I understand that it may skew the game towards offensive players, but I want to see them enforce rules that require the players to actually learn to practice sound tackling technique, rather than running at full speed and leading with the helmet like a ram in mating season.
(http://i.makeagif.com/media/4-26-2014/rd_KWD.gif)
It seems obvious to me that the Broncos defenders had a clear plan to work in concert to rattle and wear out Cam Newton as much as possible, so that by the end of the game Cam couldn't do what he is capable of doing in the first quarter. Indeed, I think I read quotes to that effect. They basically admit that's what they're trying to do.
The NFL is going to have a tough time rooting out that sort of strategic behavior. At the very least, they need to make it carry a very high in-game cost. If you want to take the wind out of Cam's sails by ramming him in the head and knocking him on his behind multiple times, you should be ready to give up some 15 yard penalties resulting in a 1st down. And you should be prepared for some of your key guys to get tossed and possibly even suspended for a game or two if any of the hits is truly egregious.
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With a player like Lebron or Shaq, it takes more contact to achieve that goal. If you do a light contest and Lebron still easily makes the layup it becomes an awful play instead. So should the players not be allowed to do fouls that impact Lebron the same way they impact other player's chance of making a shot? I don't necessarily know there is a simple answer to that...
I think you gotta draw the line at conduct that pretty obviously has a high chance of resulting in injury, whether on an individual hit basis, or on a cumulative basis.
In basketball, it's like when you see guys, quite literally, jumping on Deandre Jordan's back to commit the foul. That's a bit much.
In football, I understand that it may skew the game towards offensive players, but I want to see them enforce rules that require the players to actually learn to practice sound tackling technique, rather than running at full speed and leading with the helmet like a ram in mating season.
(http://i.makeagif.com/media/4-26-2014/rd_KWD.gif)
It seems obvious to me that the Broncos defenders had a clear plan to work in concert to rattle and wear out Cam Newton as much as possible, so that by the end of the game Cam couldn't do what he is capable of doing in the first quarter. Indeed, I think I read quotes to that effect. They basically admit that's what they're trying to do.
The NFL is going to have a tough time rooting out that sort of strategic behavior. At the very least, they need to make it carry a very high in-game cost. If you want to take the wind out of Cam's sails by ramming him in the head and knocking him on his behind multiple times, you should be ready to give up some 15 yard penalties resulting in a 1st down. And you should be prepared for some of your key guys to get tossed and possibly even suspended for a game or two if any of the hits is truly egregious.
I don't think we disagree too much on this. There probably should have been one extra penalty on Denver, perhaps two. However, if the refs constantly are missing holding, defensive pass interference etc, how can we expect them to be so much better on what is admittedly a tough call? Do we want to award each coach a separate targeting/blow the helmet flag they can throw down once a game if they feel one of there player takes a dangerous hit that wasn't called? It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world and they do review the targeting automatically in college.
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I am a cowboys fan since a little kid but a culture shock compared to most New England teams since I grew up here in Western mass. jerry jones has been terrible for years since the glory days of the triplets and Jimmy Johnson. Bill Belichick is so much better and so is Tom Brady. How are a rookie quarterback in Dak Prescott and rb in Elliott who is a gf beater supposed to compete. It's hard to root for a team that has played awful for years but somehow gets press like they are God's team still. The Patriots are the best organization in sports. It's a shame Brady has to deal with dumb people in the NFL. Brady and Belichick are about as close to God's team as there is.
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So the Patriots begin the 2016 season already leading the AFC East by a half game over the Jets, Bills and Dolphins.
Is a 2016 Patriots thread already started?
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I think once again the NFL has decided to disgrace itself by putting a Brady-less Patriots on Sunday night. IMO this was done to show up the Patriots and the announcers will most likely talk about the the bag of BS called deflategate. I don't expect to win but boy would it be nice to spit in the NFL's face and all the hatters!! >:(
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Jimmy G. -- great drive! Great TD pass to scarily wide open Hogan. Phenomenal drive by Edelman as well.
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Wow. Two players in a choreographed celebration is a 15 yard penalty. I don't get that. It reminds me of the show Modern Family where the guy was like "You cheated on me with choreography Craig and that is the worst kind of cheating!"
I mean I hate those dances as much as anyone but 15 yards? I mean how do you know it's choreographed? Are the refs dance experts now? I mean wow.
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I'll take it...good job, Jimmy!
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Wow. Color me surprised. New England won!
I was ready to lambaste the Patriots for getting my hopes up only to lose at the very end, but the Cardinals did us a solid with a missed FG. Very good game from Garropolo, considering it was his first NFL start, and on the road, against a team almost no one expected them to win.
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Wow. Color me surprised. New England won!
I was ready to lambaste the Patriots for getting my hopes up only to lose at the very end, but the Cardinals did us a solid with a missed FG. Very good game from Garropolo, considering it was his first NFL start, and on the road, against a team almost no one expected them to win.
Great win.
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Wow. Fully understand why so many hate the Patriots, but that was great. They can literally do no wrong. All odds against us? Meh, just p--- excellence per usual.
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Very impressed with Garapollo. O-line was shaky, but with no Solder Vollmer or Cooper its hard to be too critical.
I thought White Hogan and Mitchell were all terrific on offense and Chris Long was great on D. Was actually really happy with Logan Ryan despite the fact that he kinda got picked on.
Without the fumbles + vintage Fitzgerald this game is a blowout.
Cant wait to have Gronk back along with Nink. I also think Mingo can have a big year.
To add to the list of guys Im excited about: Valentine and Flowers I thought were terrific as well.
Really impressive to come into a superbowl contenders house on national TV without your 2 starting tackles and a starting(maybe) gaurd with a QB making his first start and also without the best tight end in the world and get a win.
Belichick is the GOAT.
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Wow. Fully understand why so many hate the Patriots, but that was great. They can literally do no wrong. All odds against us? Meh, just p--- excellence per usual.
I dont know whether to be in awe of Belichick 's clock management or really dissapointed in it. Usually Id say we got lucky for the second time today, but Bills track record suggests it might be something else.
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Wow. Fully understand why so many hate the Patriots, but that was great. They can literally do no wrong. All odds against us? Meh, just p--- excellence per usual.
I dont know whether to be in awe of Belichick 's clock management or really dissapointed in it. Usually Id say we got lucky for the second time today, but Bills track record suggests it might be something else.
If the ball goes through the uprights I don't think anyone would be calling it good management.
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A few games really had some crazy plays to start off the season. Always good to also have more close ones.
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Nice job, ESPN.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsIAGv1XYAAyr53.jpg:large)
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Nice job, ESPN.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsIAGv1XYAAyr53.jpg:large)
"experts"
good win though, that was a fun game to watch
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Nice job, ESPN.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsIAGv1XYAAyr53.jpg:large)
"experts"
good win though, that was a fun game to watch
a late blown FG cost them their opportunity to be right. it's not like the Pats blew them out. still, it did seem like more of an opportunity to pile on the Patriot-hate than actually evaluate the Pats' chances to win.
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Jimmy was impressive last night.
Pats O-line looked pretty shaky, though, and the defense all but gave up the game until Arizona obliged with a holding penalty and a missed FG.
Also, Blount is a beast. He's the most impressive 3.2 YPC you'll ever see. A lot of 1-2 yard lurches with the occasional 8-12 yard burst with three guys draped all over him.
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Jimmy was impressive last night.
Pats O-line looked pretty shaky, though, and the defense all but gave up the game until Arizona obliged with a holding penalty and a missed FG.
Also, Blount is a beast. He's the most impressive 3.2 YPC you'll ever see. A lot of 1-2 yard lurches with the occasional 8-12 yard burst with three guys draped all over him.
Loved the hurdle over a defender against the Panthers (I think it was) in preseason.
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Nice job, ESPN.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsIAGv1XYAAyr53.jpg:large)
to be fair, Arizona should have won the game on the FG.
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Nice job, ESPN.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsIAGv1XYAAyr53.jpg:large)
to be fair, Arizona should have won the game on the FG.
On a 47 yard field goal? Not really. That's like saying an NBA team should have won on a last second three pointer. It wasnt a free throw type of situation.
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Nice job, ESPN.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsIAGv1XYAAyr53.jpg:large)
to be fair, Arizona should have won the game on the FG.
Or New England could of put it away earlier by scoring TDs instead of those 2 FGs earlier in the 4th quarter.
Coulda, woulda, shoulda...
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Nice job, ESPN.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsIAGv1XYAAyr53.jpg:large)
to be fair, Arizona should have won the game on the FG.
On a 47 yard field goal? Not really. That's like saying an NBA team should have won on a last second three pointer. It wasnt a free throw type of situation.
Just standard pessimism. While there are a few plays you can point to on both teams the fact is for the overwelming majority of the game the Patriots were in the lead numerous times by multiple possessions. Both teams had a highly improbable play that helped them immensely. New England convert on a 3rd and 15. However, the play before the field goal attempt Arizona picked up 18 yards on a 3rd and 23 to even give them the chance at a long field goal. (which as pointed out is hardly a chip shop)
All that being said the 50 50 balls also went the Cardinals way. The patriots sacked Carson Palmer 3 times (and he is a guy that coughs up the ball). The cardinals still had zero fumbles lost. Meanwhile the patriots had 3 fumbles and lost 2. Overall the patriots actually really dominated the cardinals aside from those turnovers. This wouldn't have been a one score game without them.
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A win is a win and it was great to see. The NFL and all the haters must be beside themselves lol. It was their chance to humiliate the Pats on national TV and BANG it backfired! I love it hahahaha.
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Jimmy was impressive last night.
Pats O-line looked pretty shaky, though, and the defense all but gave up the game until Arizona obliged with a holding penalty and a missed FG.
Also, Blount is a beast. He's the most impressive 3.2 YPC you'll ever see. A lot of 1-2 yard lurches with the occasional 8-12 yard burst with three guys draped all over him.
The O-line is a mess they need Solder back badly and may need to trade for another tackle. The defense played well mostly as they followed the game plan. They just never seemed to make a big pay when they needed one.
As far as Blount, those 1 yard runs were killing me! Great call and play on that third and long run he had though.
Truly unbelievable with no Brady, Gronk, Solder, the other tackle, the running back on IR and Ninkovich. Those are some of our best players! ;)
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"The Patriots suddenly have a quarterback problem, and Tom Brady's long-term future with the team will be on the line"
http://www.businessinsider.com/patriots-quarterback-problem-tom-brady-jimmy-garoppolo-free-agent-contract-2016-9
Typical press over-reaction.....
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"The Patriots suddenly have a quarterback problem, and Tom Brady's long-term future with the team will be on the line"
http://www.businessinsider.com/patriots-quarterback-problem-tom-brady-jimmy-garoppolo-free-agent-contract-2016-9
Typical press over-reaction.....
I remember the same narrative was brought up with Cassel back in 2008. People are stupid sometimes.
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"The Patriots suddenly have a quarterback problem, and Tom Brady's long-term future with the team will be on the line"
http://www.businessinsider.com/patriots-quarterback-problem-tom-brady-jimmy-garoppolo-free-agent-contract-2016-9
Typical press over-reaction.....
The writer is getting his clicks, which was the entire point of his writing said piece. I bet he thanks you for helping by linking his article.
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A win is a win and it was great to see. The NFL and all the haters must be beside themselves lol. It was their chance to humiliate the Pats on national TV and BANG it backfired! I love it hahahaha.
I keep hearing fans say they wanted to humiliate the pats but I don't think there's any humiliation losing to the cardinals. Goodell won. It's a big load of cow manure but it's over. I'm glad Brady gave up the fight. It stinks what they did but the less deflate gate talk the better. It's really tiresome.
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Also, Blount is a beast. He's the most impressive 3.2 YPC you'll ever see. A lot of 1-2 yard lurches with the occasional 8-12 yard burst with three guys draped all over him.
I thought the running game was awful. Except for a couple of big gains, it was mostly running into a brick wall on some of the most predictable handoffs ever.
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Also, Blount is a beast. He's the most impressive 3.2 YPC you'll ever see. A lot of 1-2 yard lurches with the occasional 8-12 yard burst with three guys draped all over him.
I thought the running game was awful. Except for a couple of big gains, it was mostly running into a brick wall on some of the most predictable handoffs ever.
Seemed to me that the Pats knew their offensive line was suspect. Especially on the run and that they really only called the run stuff to keep the D honest to an extent and to really try & set up the play action. Basically, I think anything they got out of the running game last night was a bonus. I have to imagine they had pretty tempered expectations about how the running game would perform against that Arizona front.
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Nice job, ESPN.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsIAGv1XYAAyr53.jpg:large)
to be fair, Arizona should have won the game on the FG.
On a 47 yard field goal? Not really. That's like saying an NBA team should have won on a last second three pointer. It wasnt a free throw type of situation.
Yeah I checked and a 47 yard FG is very hard to make (less than 20%).
http://blog.revolutionanalytics.com/2013/01/chances-of-making-an-nfl-field-goal.html
Cardinals were basically making a desperation play there, and, not surprisingly, it didn't work.
Even if it did, Pats would get the ball back with 30+ seconds and a chance for their own desperation FG to win it.
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Yeah I checked and a 47 yard FG is very hard to make (less than 20%).
http://blog.revolutionanalytics.com/2013/01/chances-of-making-an-nfl-field-goal.html
Cardinals were basically making a desperation play there, and, not surprisingly, it didn't work.
Even if it did, Pats would get the ball back with 30+ seconds and a chance for their own desperation FG to win it.
I haven't had time to fully review (and redo) the data work, but I guarantee you this is bogus. There is no way that there is virtually no chance to convert a 50-yard FG.
edit: I think the distance in the model refers to where the ball was snapped from. In this particular case, we should be looking at D=29 (rather than 47), which is a 75% conversion rate; 47-yard FGs are a routine play for any placekicker that's not awful.
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Yeah I checked and a 47 yard FG is very hard to make (less than 20%).
http://blog.revolutionanalytics.com/2013/01/chances-of-making-an-nfl-field-goal.html
Cardinals were basically making a desperation play there, and, not surprisingly, it didn't work.
Even if it did, Pats would get the ball back with 30+ seconds and a chance for their own desperation FG to win it.
I haven't had time to fully review (and redo) the data work, but I guarantee you this is bogus. There is no way that there is virtually no chance to convert a 50-yard FG.
edit: I think the distance in the model refers to where the ball was snapped from. In this particular case, we should be looking at D=29 (rather than 47), which is a 75% conversion rate; 47-yard FGs are a routine play for any placekicker that's not awful.
My bad, thanks for the catch (no pun intended). After digging some more, 538 has some nice graphs (based on others' data). http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/kickers-are-forever/
You are right, it is closer to 75% (eyeballing, probably about 70%).
So the Pats got luckier than I thought ;)
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Yeah I checked and a 47 yard FG is very hard to make (less than 20%).
http://blog.revolutionanalytics.com/2013/01/chances-of-making-an-nfl-field-goal.html
Cardinals were basically making a desperation play there, and, not surprisingly, it didn't work.
Even if it did, Pats would get the ball back with 30+ seconds and a chance for their own desperation FG to win it.
I haven't had time to fully review (and redo) the data work, but I guarantee you this is bogus. There is no way that there is virtually no chance to convert a 50-yard FG.
edit: I think the distance in the model refers to where the ball was snapped from. In this particular case, we should be looking at D=29 (rather than 47), which is a 75% conversion rate; 47-yard FGs are a routine play for any placekicker that's not awful.
My bad, thanks for the catch (no pun intended). After digging some more, 538 has some nice graphs (based on others' data). http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/kickers-are-forever/
You are right, it is closer to 75% (eyeballing, probably about 70%).
So the Pats got luckier than I thought ;)
Luck might be a matter of perspective. Kicks from 47 yards are made pretty frequently, but they're also missed often enough, and Catanzaro has one of the weaker legs in the league—last year he was perfect from under 47 yards, but only 1-4 from 47 and beyond (though the one make was a 47-yarder). It wasn't like missing a chip shot.
It could also be argued easily enough that the Cardinals shouldn't have even allowed the Patriots to be within striking distance of a win, much less having the lead with a minute left in the game. No Brady, no Gronk, two rookies starting at the tackle positions, on the road, with a QB making his first NFL start. The Cardinals might've taken the Pats lightly, but the Pats were well-prepared, too.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIu-O0dXwOw&feature=youtu.be
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Yeah I checked and a 47 yard FG is very hard to make (less than 20%).
http://blog.revolutionanalytics.com/2013/01/chances-of-making-an-nfl-field-goal.html
Cardinals were basically making a desperation play there, and, not surprisingly, it didn't work.
Even if it did, Pats would get the ball back with 30+ seconds and a chance for their own desperation FG to win it.
I haven't had time to fully review (and redo) the data work, but I guarantee you this is bogus. There is no way that there is virtually no chance to convert a 50-yard FG.
edit: I think the distance in the model refers to where the ball was snapped from. In this particular case, we should be looking at D=29 (rather than 47), which is a 75% conversion rate; 47-yard FGs are a routine play for any placekicker that's not awful.
My bad, thanks for the catch (no pun intended). After digging some more, 538 has some nice graphs (based on others' data). http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/kickers-are-forever/
You are right, it is closer to 75% (eyeballing, probably about 70%).
So the Pats got luckier than I thought ;)
Luck might be a matter of perspective. Kicks from 47 yards are made pretty frequently, but they're also missed often enough, and Catanzaro has one of the weaker legs in the league—last year he was perfect from under 47 yards, but only 1-4 from 47 and beyond (though the one make was a 47-yarder). It wasn't like missing a chip shot.
It could also be argued easily enough that the Cardinals shouldn't have even allowed the Patriots to be within striking distance of a win, much less having the lead with a minute left in the game. No Brady, no Gronk, two rookies starting at the tackle positions, on the road, with a QB making his first NFL start. The Cardinals might've taken the Pats lightly, but the Pats were well-prepared, too.
Oh, I totally agree. The Patriots outplayed the Cardinals. They worked hard for the win and deserved it. I was merely trying to humble myself after my mess up on the stats front earlier.
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Shocking. Absolutely shocking that something the NFL would institute would backfire on them.
https://sports.yahoo.com/news/bill-belichick-isnt-bending-to-nfl-kickoff-rule-and-others-may-follow-suit-001819719.html
Don't know why they're singling out Belichick here, though. Any head coach with half a brain should be taking the same approach. It's not exactly genius. Its common sense & good strategy.
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Yeah I checked and a 47 yard FG is very hard to make (less than 20%).
http://blog.revolutionanalytics.com/2013/01/chances-of-making-an-nfl-field-goal.html
Cardinals were basically making a desperation play there, and, not surprisingly, it didn't work.
Even if it did, Pats would get the ball back with 30+ seconds and a chance for their own desperation FG to win it.
I haven't had time to fully review (and redo) the data work, but I guarantee you this is bogus. There is no way that there is virtually no chance to convert a 50-yard FG.
edit: I think the distance in the model refers to where the ball was snapped from. In this particular case, we should be looking at D=29 (rather than 47), which is a 75% conversion rate; 47-yard FGs are a routine play for any placekicker that's not awful.
My bad, thanks for the catch (no pun intended). After digging some more, 538 has some nice graphs (based on others' data). http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/kickers-are-forever/
You are right, it is closer to 75% (eyeballing, probably about 70%).
So the Pats got luckier than I thought ;)
Luck might be a matter of perspective. Kicks from 47 yards are made pretty frequently, but they're also missed often enough, and Catanzaro has one of the weaker legs in the league—last year he was perfect from under 47 yards, but only 1-4 from 47 and beyond (though the one make was a 47-yarder). It wasn't like missing a chip shot.
It could also be argued easily enough that the Cardinals shouldn't have even allowed the Patriots to be within striking distance of a win, much less having the lead with a minute left in the game. No Brady, no Gronk, two rookies starting at the tackle positions, on the road, with a QB making his first NFL start. The Cardinals might've taken the Pats lightly, but the Pats were well-prepared, too.
Oh, I totally agree. The Patriots outplayed the Cardinals. They worked hard for the win and deserved it. I was merely trying to humble myself after my mess up on the stats front earlier.
:)
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Shocking. Absolutely shocking that something the NFL would institute would backfire on them.
https://sports.yahoo.com/news/bill-belichick-isnt-bending-to-nfl-kickoff-rule-and-others-may-follow-suit-001819719.html
Don't know why they're singling out Belichick here, though. Any head coach with half a brain should be taking the same approach. It's not exactly genius. Its common sense & good strategy.
They're singling out Belichek because he was willing to openly talk about the strategy. And not all head coaches have half a brain -- if the Colts had done that against the Lions, they might have won.
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Shocking. Absolutely shocking that something the NFL would institute would backfire on them.
https://sports.yahoo.com/news/bill-belichick-isnt-bending-to-nfl-kickoff-rule-and-others-may-follow-suit-001819719.html
Don't know why they're singling out Belichick here, though. Any head coach with half a brain should be taking the same approach. It's not exactly genius. Its common sense & good strategy.
It also speaks to BB's trust is Gostkowski as well. Not every kicker is going to be able to consistently execute that play. You can bet some of the lesser talents will boot a few balls out of bounds for penalties because they're pressing trying to kick the ball short.
The play also requires pretty good coordination and timing on special teams, which thankfully we usually possess.
This could become yet another advantage for us.
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Also, Blount is a beast. He's the most impressive 3.2 YPC you'll ever see. A lot of 1-2 yard lurches with the occasional 8-12 yard burst with three guys draped all over him.
I thought the running game was awful. Except for a couple of big gains, it was mostly running into a brick wall on some of the most predictable handoffs ever.
Don't get me wrong, the running game wasn't very good at all, but Blount is just so slow yet so huge it's really impressive to watch him manage to get 70 yards.
He mostly looks like a DE or LB that found his way onto the field and got the ball by accident, but occasionally he picks up 7-8 yards and a first down or touchdown despite a crowd of defenders hanging all over him.
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Also, Blount is a beast. He's the most impressive 3.2 YPC you'll ever see. A lot of 1-2 yard lurches with the occasional 8-12 yard burst with three guys draped all over him.
I thought the running game was awful. Except for a couple of big gains, it was mostly running into a brick wall on some of the most predictable handoffs ever.
Seemed to me that the Pats knew their offensive line was suspect. Especially on the run and that they really only called the run stuff to keep the D honest to an extent and to really try & set up the play action. Basically, I think anything they got out of the running game last night was a bonus. I have to imagine they had pretty tempered expectations about how the running game would perform against that Arizona front.
On the bright side, it seems like once our line is healthy, the addition of Bennett will help a lot on run plays. I knew he was a good receiver from his time in Chicago, but seeing him blocking is really encouraging, too. Between him, Gronk, and Blount, our goal line rushes should look a lot better this year
Gotta get that OLine healthy, though, which is a lot easier said than done
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Also, Blount is a beast. He's the most impressive 3.2 YPC you'll ever see. A lot of 1-2 yard lurches with the occasional 8-12 yard burst with three guys draped all over him.
I thought the running game was awful. Except for a couple of big gains, it was mostly running into a brick wall on some of the most predictable handoffs ever.
Seemed to me that the Pats knew their offensive line was suspect. Especially on the run and that they really only called the run stuff to keep the D honest to an extent and to really try & set up the play action. Basically, I think anything they got out of the running game last night was a bonus. I have to imagine they had pretty tempered expectations about how the running game would perform against that Arizona front.
On the bright side, it seems like once our line is healthy, the addition of Bennett will help a lot on run plays. I knew he was a good receiver from his time in Chicago, but seeing him blocking is really encouraging, too. Between him, Gronk, and Blount, our goal line rushes should look a lot better this year
Gotta get that OLine healthy, though, which is a lot easier said than done
Add Develin to that mix as well.
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Shocking. Absolutely shocking that something the NFL would institute would backfire on them.
https://sports.yahoo.com/news/bill-belichick-isnt-bending-to-nfl-kickoff-rule-and-others-may-follow-suit-001819719.html
Don't know why they're singling out Belichick here, though. Any head coach with half a brain should be taking the same approach. It's not exactly genius. Its common sense & good strategy.
My favorite solution to the kickoff issue is to replace it with a drop kick from the 50-yard line.
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Shocking. Absolutely shocking that something the NFL would institute would backfire on them.
https://sports.yahoo.com/news/bill-belichick-isnt-bending-to-nfl-kickoff-rule-and-others-may-follow-suit-001819719.html
Don't know why they're singling out Belichick here, though. Any head coach with half a brain should be taking the same approach. It's not exactly genius. Its common sense & good strategy.
My favorite solution to the kickoff issue is to replace it with a drop kick from the 50-yard line.
If they're really concerned about player safety (which they're clearly not), then you just eliminate it altogether.
Tinkering around with it in this manner does almost nothing and could easily lead to even more injuries if teams are taking the approach of doing short kicks.
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Is there any doubt whatsoever that Garapolo is the 2nd best QB in the AFC East? If you said Fitzgerald or Tannenhil I wouldn't call you crazy. I'd just call you wrong.
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Is there any doubt whatsoever that Garapolo is the 2nd best QB in the AFC East? If you said Fitzgerald or Tannenhil I wouldn't call you crazy. I'd just call you wrong.
Or that Belichick is an even better coach than he was getting credit for? Doing this without Brady certainly helps cement his coaching legacy.
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Ouch -- looks like Garapalo's got a shoulder problem. Didn't like the pain he appeared to be in and the "Oh my god" he was mouthing after being attended to. Looks not too good.
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This is the part where we discover Brissett is the 3rd best QB in the AFC East
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This is the part where we discover Brissett is the 3rd best QB in the AFC East
You may be correct! Nice drive!!
BTW -- Chris Long is playing great.
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The Dolphins....I'm pretty sure Alabama last year would beat the Dolphins this year.
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The Dolphins....I'm pretty sure Alabama last year would beat the Dolphins this year.
Above post is my current pick for jinx of the year.
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Man real bummer about Garropolo. He was On. Fire.
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I don't live in Boston anymore, so I don't listen to Boston sports talk radio. Are the talking heads still saying BB made a mistake in drafting Jimmy G?
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I don't live in Boston anymore, so I don't listen to Boston sports talk radio. Are the talking heads still saying BB made a mistake in drafting Jimmy G?
Anyone remaining skeptical before today will have a hard time sustaining that after the first half today. But pretty much I think everone was convinced last week. Hope the injury is not bad. I think I just saw a screen banner that said xrays were negative. Hard to believe there will be no impact - Jimmy looked like something not good was happening with the shoulder.
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Nice to see the Giants winning games with their defense this year, so far. Looks like all the money they spent on that side of the ball may have been worth it.
Oh, and is there a better receiving trio in the entire league than Beckham, Cruz, and Sheppard? I'd be hard pressed to think of one. A healthy Cruz is scary news for pass defenses.
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Nice to see the Giants winning games with their defense this year, so far. Looks like all the money they spent on that side of the ball may have been worth it.
Oh, and is there a better receiving trio in the entire league than Beckham, Cruz, and Sheppard? I'd be hard pressed to think of one. A healthy Cruz is scary news for pass defenses.
God I hate the Giants! >:(
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I don't follow football. is that Jimmy Garofalo kid legit or did he just have a couple flukey great games, because of the Patriots system? Also, is his injury going to keep him out the next couple games?
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I don't follow football. is that Jimmy Garofalo kid legit or did he just have a couple flukey great games, because of the Patriots system? Also, is his injury going to keep him out the next couple games?
Disclaimer: Patriots fan responding here.
Jimmy G has been very impressive filling in for Brady. Last week, he beat the Cardinals, a team that many had as their Super Bowl pick this year, in their own home stadium and he did it without the team's best offensive weapon (and possibly the league's most unstoppable force) Rob Gronkowski, and arguably the team's two best offensive linemen, Nate Solder and Sebastian Vollmer. Up until his injury, Jimmy was ripping through Miami's supposed "stout" defense consistently leading them to touchdown drives despite still not having Gronk. I do think he has great receivers to throw to, but even great receivers suffer when they play with a crappy QB. I think Jimmy's shown he has what it takes. He's played so well that a thought came to my mind that he could be the Aaron Rodgers to Tom Brady's Brett Favre but that's getting wayyyy ahead of myself.
Also, they say the injury wasn't as bad it may have looked but he will be out on Thursday against the Texans. It doesn't really matter because Brady will be back in 3 weeks and the Pats have held their ground well in his absence.
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I don't live in Boston anymore, so I don't listen to Boston sports talk radio. Are the talking heads still saying BB made a mistake in drafting Jimmy G?
The talking heads say the Patriots made a mistake every time they draft a QB. But Kirk Minihane on WEEI today thought that 2 years of Brady vs 10 years of Garropolo has become a legitimate question at this point.
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Nice to see the Giants winning games with their defense this year, so far. Looks like all the money they spent on that side of the ball may have been worth it.
Oh, and is there a better receiving trio in the entire league than Beckham, Cruz, and Sheppard? I'd be hard pressed to think of one. A healthy Cruz is scary news for pass defenses.
I'm a Giants fan, so I try not to get too involved in football discussions on this board. But yeah, exiting stuff! Jenkins is looking great at corner, Vernon doing wonders for the line. And regardless of what team you root for, it's great to see Victor Cruz healthy on the field again. Shepard also looking like a steal of a pick.
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Is there any doubt whatsoever that Garapolo is the 2nd best QB in the AFC East? If you said Fitzgerald or Tannenhil I wouldn't call you crazy. I'd just call you wrong.
Or that Belichick is an even better coach than he was getting credit for? Doing this without Brady certainly helps cement his coaching legacy.
Belichick is amazing. The Patriots talent, without Brady, Gronk, Hightower, etc, that they had out there yesterday was subpar compared to other NFL teams, yet they were completely dismantling Miami in the first half. I mean look at the Pats skill players ... Edelman, Amendola, Hogan and Blount. Most of those guys were released by other teams. They are average NFL players at best, and Belichick makes them look like All-Pros. The man is amazing.
There was a quote that Bum Phillips said about Don Shula back in the day ... "He can take his'n and beat your'n, and he could then take your'n and best his'n". This quote totally applies to Belichick. I have no doubt whatsoever that Miami would've crushed the Pats yesterday if Belickick were coaching Miami and Gase coaching NE.
Again, that coach is Amazing.
- Dolphins fan
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Apparently, the Seahawks just got nailed by the league.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/09/19/seahawks-nailed-again-for-offseason-violations-fined-and-lose-pick/
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Apparently, the Seahawks just got nailed by the league.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/09/19/seahawks-nailed-again-for-offseason-violations-fined-and-lose-pick/
Oh so thaaatttt's dropping the hammer! Poor Seahawks. Poor poor Seahawks.
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Nice to see the Giants winning games with their defense this year, so far. Looks like all the money they spent on that side of the ball may have been worth it.
Oh, and is there a better receiving trio in the entire league than Beckham, Cruz, and Sheppard? I'd be hard pressed to think of one. A healthy Cruz is scary news for pass defenses.
I'm a Giants fan, so I try not to get too involved in football discussions on this board. But yeah, exiting stuff! Jenkins is looking great at corner, Vernon doing wonders for the line. And regardless of what team you root for, it's great to see Victor Cruz healthy on the field again. Shepard also looking like a steal of a pick.
TP to a fellow Giants fan!
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27-0 Pats win against Texans.
Pretty amazing given it was w a rookie third string QB.
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27-0 Pats win against Texans.
Pretty amazing given it was w a rookie third string QB.
This is just embarrassing for other teams. Seriously.
Without their HOF QB, their Pro Bowl TE, also missing Dion Lewis and a couple of offensive linemen; a backup QB making his first two career starts, then a third-string rookie QB making his first NFL start; beating a Super Bowl favorite on the road.
None of this has mattered. They just keep on winning.
How is this not embarrassing to the Cardinals, Dolphins, and Texans? Not because they lost, but because they got owned. Belichick and his staff are showing their football mastery right now. I just hope it ends with Goodell handing Brady another Super Bowl MVP trophy.
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27-0 Pats win against Texans.
Pretty amazing given it was w a rookie third string QB.
This is just embarrassing for other teams. Seriously.
Without their HOF QB, their Pro Bowl TE, also missing Dion Lewis and a couple of offensive linemen; a backup QB making his first two career starts, then a third-string rookie QB making his first NFL start; beating a Super Bowl favorite on the road.
None of this has mattered. They just keep on winning.
How is this not embarrassing to the Cardinals, Dolphins, and Texans? Not because they lost, but because they got owned. Belichick and his staff are showing their football mastery right now. I just hope it ends with Goodell handing Brady another Super Bowl MVP trophy.
Goodell and the deflate gate fans can suck it!
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Funny how this one writer from the New York post ranked the Pats #4 this week compared to just about everyone else who said the Pats were #1. Not because of how well the Pats played but because he thought things would get worse for them after Jimmy G got hurt.
Suck it New York.
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27-0 Pats win against Texans.
Pretty amazing given it was w a rookie third string QB.
This is just embarrassing for other teams. Seriously.
Without their HOF QB, their Pro Bowl TE, also missing Dion Lewis and a couple of offensive linemen; a backup QB making his first two career starts, then a third-string rookie QB making his first NFL start; beating a Super Bowl favorite on the road.
None of this has mattered. They just keep on winning.
How is this not embarrassing to the Cardinals, Dolphins, and Texans? Not because they lost, but because they got owned. Belichick and his staff are showing their football mastery right now. I just hope it ends with Goodell handing Brady another Super Bowl MVP trophy.
Great post. They're just making a mockery of the league right now.
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27-0 Pats win against Texans.
Pretty amazing given it was w a rookie third string QB.
This is just embarrassing for other teams. Seriously.
Without their HOF QB, their Pro Bowl TE, also missing Dion Lewis and a couple of offensive linemen; a backup QB making his first two career starts, then a third-string rookie QB making his first NFL start; beating a Super Bowl favorite on the road.
None of this has mattered. They just keep on winning.
How is this not embarrassing to the Cardinals, Dolphins, and Texans? Not because they lost, but because they got owned. Belichick and his staff are showing their football mastery right now. I just hope it ends with Goodell handing Brady another Super Bowl MVP trophy.
Great post. They're just making a mockery of the league right now.
Thanks. This may end up being the most enjoyable season of the Brady-Belichick era, and Tom's not even playing yet.
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27-0 Pats win against Texans.
Pretty amazing given it was w a rookie third string QB.
This is just embarrassing for other teams. Seriously.
Without their HOF QB, their Pro Bowl TE, also missing Dion Lewis and a couple of offensive linemen; a backup QB making his first two career starts, then a third-string rookie QB making his first NFL start; beating a Super Bowl favorite on the road.
None of this has mattered. They just keep on winning.
How is this not embarrassing to the Cardinals, Dolphins, and Texans? Not because they lost, but because they got owned. Belichick and his staff are showing their football mastery right now. I just hope it ends with Goodell handing Brady another Super Bowl MVP trophy.
Well, that's how they looked when they started 10-0 last season too, so there's that.
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There is no doubt whatsoever now that Bill Belichick is the single greatest NFL coach that ever lived, and probably ever will.
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LOL @ the NFL!!
They tried so hard to screw the Pats, to humiliate them on national tv twice and the plan has totally backfired!
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Quite possibly the best special teams performance by the Pats in the Belichick era last night. Btw, Ryan Allan's punts and the kickoff coverage, it was as close to perfect as you'll see. Although, Cyrus Jones probably won't be returning punts anymore.
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The broadcast would be so much better if they had occasional live feeds to Goodell's face.
At the very least I'd like to see how he looked the second he found out what happened. Did someone have the guts to give him the details or was it like Hitler on D Day where nobody wanted to wake him?
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The broadcast would be so much better if they had occasional live feeds to Goodell's face.
At the very least I'd like to see how he looked the second he found out what happened. Did someone have the guts to give him the details or was it like Hitler on D Day where nobody wanted to wake him?
The broadcasts would also be much better if they eliminated Phil Simms. He is awful and has been awful for quite a number of years now. If you're on Twitter, follow @philsimmsquotes. You won't be disappointed.
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27-0 Pats win against Texans.
Pretty amazing given it was w a rookie third string QB.
This is just embarrassing for other teams. Seriously.
Without their HOF QB, their Pro Bowl TE, also missing Dion Lewis and a couple of offensive linemen; a backup QB making his first two career starts, then a third-string rookie QB making his first NFL start; beating a Super Bowl favorite on the road.
None of this has mattered. They just keep on winning.
How is this not embarrassing to the Cardinals, Dolphins, and Texans? Not because they lost, but because they got owned. Belichick and his staff are showing their football mastery right now. I just hope it ends with Goodell handing Brady another Super Bowl MVP trophy.
Well, that's how they looked when they started 10-0 last season too, so there's that.
Touché. That thought did cross my mind as I wrote that post. But I see this season (so far) a bit differently. If Brady and Gronk are healthy and not suspended, I expect them to go 10-0. I didn't expect them to beat Arizona, and I didn't expect them to thrash Texas. To see them winning with several backups and rookies just screams how well the coaching staff knows football, and how Goodell really can't hurt them.
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While the start to this season is doing wonders for cementing Belichicks legacy as he greatest coach ever, it's got to be hurting Brady's to some extent. I mean, it seams you can throw anyone out there at QB in Bill's system and this team will still dominate. Brady's going to have a lot of pressure to not only keep up the win streak but to improve on this teams dominance and win it all once he returns.
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While the start to this season is doing wonders for cementing Belichicks legacy as he greatest coach ever, it's got to be hurting Brady's to some extent. I mean, it seams you can throw anyone out there at QB in Bill's system and this team will still dominate. Brady's going to have a lot of pressure to not only keep up the win streak but to improve on this teams dominance and win it all once he returns.
I think "the Patriots system" was first proven way back when Matt Cassel led the Pats to an 11-5 record (but missed the playoffs—thanks, stupid playoff system). But you're right that these last three weeks confirm that.
I don't think, though, that it detracts from Brady—his postseason heroics no doubt had something to do with the system, but it's clear he's one of the best ever.
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While the start to this season is doing wonders for cementing Belichicks legacy as he greatest coach ever, it's got to be hurting Brady's to some extent. I mean, it seams you can throw anyone out there at QB in Bill's system and this team will still dominate. Brady's going to have a lot of pressure to not only keep up the win streak but to improve on this teams dominance and win it all once he returns.
I think "the Patriots system" was first proven way back when Matt Cassel led the Pats to an 11-5 record (but missed the playoffs—thanks, stupid playoff system). But you're right that these last three weeks confirm that.
I don't think, though, that it detracts from Brady—his postseason heroics no doubt had something to do with the system, but it's clear he's one of the best ever.
It helps immensely when you have a legit defense. This Pats team has had a sneaky really good defense for a couple of seasons now.
2nd half the MIA game aside, this D has been lights out. Helps the offense immensely and has made them look better than they really currently are.
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While the start to this season is doing wonders for cementing Belichicks legacy as he greatest coach ever, it's got to be hurting Brady's to some extent. I mean, it seams you can throw anyone out there at QB in Bill's system and this team will still dominate. Brady's going to have a lot of pressure to not only keep up the win streak but to improve on this teams dominance and win it all once he returns.
I think "the Patriots system" was first proven way back when Matt Cassel led the Pats to an 11-5 record (but missed the playoffs—thanks, stupid playoff system). But you're right that these last three weeks confirm that.
I don't think, though, that it detracts from Brady—his postseason heroics no doubt had something to do with the system, but it's clear he's one of the best ever.
It helps immensely when you have a legit defense. This Pats team has had a sneaky really good defense for a couple of seasons now.
2nd half the MIA game aside, this D has been lights out. Helps the offense immensely and has made them look better than they really currently are.
I agree, I think had we beat the Broncos last year, no reason why we shouldn't repeat. That Pats vs Broncos game was all defense.
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While the start to this season is doing wonders for cementing Belichicks legacy as he greatest coach ever, it's got to be hurting Brady's to some extent. I mean, it seams you can throw anyone out there at QB in Bill's system and this team will still dominate. Brady's going to have a lot of pressure to not only keep up the win streak but to improve on this teams dominance and win it all once he returns.
I think "the Patriots system" was first proven way back when Matt Cassel led the Pats to an 11-5 record (but missed the playoffs—thanks, stupid playoff system). But you're right that these last three weeks confirm that.
I don't think, though, that it detracts from Brady—his postseason heroics no doubt had something to do with the system, but it's clear he's one of the best ever.
It helps immensely when you have a legit defense. This Pats team has had a sneaky really good defense for a couple of seasons now.
2nd half the MIA game aside, this D has been lights out. Helps the offense immensely and has made them look better than they really currently are.
They have some real studs in Collins and Hightower, and I hope the team ponies up to keep them. The D has been a big strength of the team this year.
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While the start to this season is doing wonders for cementing Belichicks legacy as he greatest coach ever, it's got to be hurting Brady's to some extent. I mean, it seams you can throw anyone out there at QB in Bill's system and this team will still dominate. Brady's going to have a lot of pressure to not only keep up the win streak but to improve on this teams dominance and win it all once he returns.
I think "the Patriots system" was first proven way back when Matt Cassel led the Pats to an 11-5 record (but missed the playoffs—thanks, stupid playoff system). But you're right that these last three weeks confirm that.
I don't think, though, that it detracts from Brady—his postseason heroics no doubt had something to do with the system, but it's clear he's one of the best ever.
It helps immensely when you have a legit defense. This Pats team has had a sneaky really good defense for a couple of seasons now.
2nd half the MIA game aside, this D has been lights out. Helps the offense immensely and has made them look better than they really currently are.
They have some real studs in Collins and Hightower, and I hope the team ponies up to keep them. The D has been a big strength of the team this year.
The corners have really been something too. I used to dog Logan Ryan but he's turned out to be a really quality CB.
Picking up Chris Long has been huge too. Don't hear many people pining for Chandler Jones right now.
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Uh oh...
Mike Petraglia @Trags 1m1 minute ago Waltham, MA
Source confirms torn right thumb ligament for Jacoby Brissett. Suffered injury in 2nd half Thursday. Faces likely surgery for stabilization.
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While the start to this season is doing wonders for cementing Belichicks legacy as he greatest coach ever, it's got to be hurting Brady's to some extent. I mean, it seams you can throw anyone out there at QB in Bill's system and this team will still dominate. Brady's going to have a lot of pressure to not only keep up the win streak but to improve on this teams dominance and win it all once he returns.
I think "the Patriots system" was first proven way back when Matt Cassel led the Pats to an 11-5 record (but missed the playoffs—thanks, stupid playoff system). But you're right that these last three weeks confirm that.
I don't think, though, that it detracts from Brady—his postseason heroics no doubt had something to do with the system, but it's clear he's one of the best ever.
It helps immensely when you have a legit defense. This Pats team has had a sneaky really good defense for a couple of seasons now.
2nd half the MIA game aside, this D has been lights out. Helps the offense immensely and has made them look better than they really currently are.
They have some real studs in Collins and Hightower, and I hope the team ponies up to keep them. The D has been a big strength of the team this year.
The corners have really been something too. I used to dog Logan Ryan but he's turned out to be a really quality CB.
Picking up Chris Long has been huge too. Don't hear many people pining for Chandler Jones right now.
Long has been great, and Sheard too, and Ryan. In fact, is there anyone who hasn't performed well thus far? I mean, on the whole? I've seen a couple of guys get beat on a couple of plays, but really, outside MIA second-half, the defense has been great.
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Uh oh...
Mike Petraglia @Trags 1m1 minute ago Waltham, MA
Source confirms torn right thumb ligament for Jacoby Brissett. Suffered injury in 2nd half Thursday. Faces likely surgery for stabilization.
To make it fair they are going without a QB. ;)
Anyway hope not, be a bummer for the kid after that game.
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Uh oh...
Mike Petraglia @Trags 1m1 minute ago Waltham, MA
Source confirms torn right thumb ligament for Jacoby Brissett. Suffered injury in 2nd half Thursday. Faces likely surgery for stabilization.
To make it fair they are going without a QB. ;)
Anyway hope not, be a bummer for the kid after that game.
Unfortunate. Someone tell Jules to starting throwing.
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Uh oh...
Mike Petraglia @Trags 1m1 minute ago Waltham, MA
Source confirms torn right thumb ligament for Jacoby Brissett. Suffered injury in 2nd half Thursday. Faces likely surgery for stabilization.
To make it fair they are going without a QB. ;)
Anyway hope not, be a bummer for the kid after that game.
Unfortunate. Someone tell Jules to starting throwing.
The run of injuries on this team is Sort of ridiculous.
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Uh oh...
Mike Petraglia @Trags 1m1 minute ago Waltham, MA
Source confirms torn right thumb ligament for Jacoby Brissett. Suffered injury in 2nd half Thursday. Faces likely surgery for stabilization.
To make it fair they are going without a QB. ;)
Anyway hope not, be a bummer for the kid after that game.
Unfortunate. Someone tell Jules to starting throwing.
The run of injuries on this team is Sort of ridiculous.
Yes, and it's been that way for a while. All of those injured offensive linemen last season, the major injuries Gronk and Edelman have had, Dion Lewis two years in a row.
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Kinda stinks to have a bye week due to that possibility of seeing Edelman play QB. A solid performance could've placed him in discussions for most versatile man in the world.
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Does the Bills' smackdown of the Cardinals, and the Dolphins almost losing to the Browns diminish the Pats 3-0 record?
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Does the Bills' smackdown of the Cardinals, and the Dolphins almost losing to the Browns diminish the Pats 3-0 record?
Nothing diminishes the Pats 3-0 record considering who they have been missing in those games.
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Does the Bills' smackdown of the Cardinals, and the Dolphins almost losing to the Browns diminish the Pats 3-0 record?
Nothing diminishes the Pats 3-0 record considering who they have been missing in those games.
Thankfully, the NFL doesn't operate according to a BCS-style system. Brady will return to a 3-1 or 4-0 team, first in its division, and then (hopefully) it'll be off to the races!
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Does the Bills' smackdown of the Cardinals, and the Dolphins almost losing to the Browns diminish the Pats 3-0 record?
yes.
Absolutely. However, with Pittsburgh getting blown out today, Seattle putting up 15 points in their first two games, Arizona just sucking, Carolina losing two games, and Green Bay starting out shaky, Id still say we have had the most impressive start of any contender. The only two teams I could see being argued would be Denver and Baltimore. Baltimores beaten a bunch of nobodies and Denver Im just quite impressed with. You could easily say theyve been more impressive.
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Does the Bills' smackdown of the Cardinals, and the Dolphins almost losing to the Browns diminish the Pats 3-0 record?
yes.
Absolutely. However, with Pittsburgh getting blown out today, Seattle putting up 15 points in their first two games, Arizona just sucking, Carolina losing two games, and Green Bay starting out shaky, Id still say we have had the most impressive start of any contender. The only two teams I could see being argued would be Denver and Baltimore. Baltimores beaten a bunch of nobodies and Denver Im just quite impressed with. You could easily say theyve been more impressive.
I'm a Denver fan, so I'm biased towards them having had the better start. I'd say they've had to go against better competition, and yesterday's big win on the road against a potential playoff team was eye-opening for Siemien.
In the NFC, Minnesota and Philly have both looked impressive. Particularly Philly, having won all their games by at least 15 points.
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Does the Bills' smackdown of the Cardinals, and the Dolphins almost losing to the Browns diminish the Pats 3-0 record?
yes.
Absolutely. However, with Pittsburgh getting blown out today, Seattle putting up 15 points in their first two games, Arizona just sucking, Carolina losing two games, and Green Bay starting out shaky, Id still say we have had the most impressive start of any contender. The only two teams I could see being argued would be Denver and Baltimore. Baltimores beaten a bunch of nobodies and Denver Im just quite impressed with. You could easily say theyve been more impressive.
I'm a Denver fan, so I'm biased towards them having had the better start. I'd say they've had to go against better competition, and yesterday's big win on the road against a potential playoff team was eye-opening for Siemien.
In the NFC, Minnesota and Philly have both looked impressive. Particularly Philly, having won all their games by at least 15 points.
Yes, Philly has looked very impressive.
I don't get the "Denver has had a better start" narrative. From a pure W-L standpoint, New England has faced better competition than Denver. But I think it is all "quibbles" at this point.
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Does the Bills' smackdown of the Cardinals, and the Dolphins almost losing to the Browns diminish the Pats 3-0 record?
yes.
Absolutely. However, with Pittsburgh getting blown out today, Seattle putting up 15 points in their first two games, Arizona just sucking, Carolina losing two games, and Green Bay starting out shaky, Id still say we have had the most impressive start of any contender. The only two teams I could see being argued would be Denver and Baltimore. Baltimores beaten a bunch of nobodies and Denver Im just quite impressed with. You could easily say theyve been more impressive.
I'm a Denver fan, so I'm biased towards them having had the better start. I'd say they've had to go against better competition, and yesterday's big win on the road against a potential playoff team was eye-opening for Siemien.
In the NFC, Minnesota and Philly have both looked impressive. Particularly Philly, having won all their games by at least 15 points.
Denver has a great defense that can win games for them so the offense just has to be decent. As for Cincinnati they are not as good as they were last year, losing 2 key offensive players that were replaced by inferior talent. On top of that they are massive chokers that have no credibility. Minny and Philly have looked good I'll agree with you on that.
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I think there is clearer separation in the AFC.
DEN & NE seem to be the cream of the crop. I think the jury is still out on BAL. Steelers are probably in that 2nd tier right now. Probably add the Chiefs & Raiders in there too.
The NFC? Man, I don't know. Not quite sure what to make of this Philly team right now. Same with the Vikings. The old standbys like CAR, GB, & SEA have looked so-so. Giants had a terrible lose yesterday. Your guess is probably as good as mine about who is the top tier there. My guy still tells me that CAR & SEA will be there at the end.
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Does the Bills' smackdown of the Cardinals, and the Dolphins almost losing to the Browns diminish the Pats 3-0 record?
yes.
Absolutely. However, with Pittsburgh getting blown out today, Seattle putting up 15 points in their first two games, Arizona just sucking, Carolina losing two games, and Green Bay starting out shaky, Id still say we have had the most impressive start of any contender. The only two teams I could see being argued would be Denver and Baltimore. Baltimores beaten a bunch of nobodies and Denver Im just quite impressed with. You could easily say theyve been more impressive.
I'm a Denver fan, so I'm biased towards them having had the better start. I'd say they've had to go against better competition, and yesterday's big win on the road against a potential playoff team was eye-opening for Siemien.
In the NFC, Minnesota and Philly have both looked impressive. Particularly Philly, having won all their games by at least 15 points.
Eh. I think Denver has had a tougher schedule but it's close. Carolina and Arizona is basically a wash (especially when Carolina was home and Arizona was on the road) then Indy is better than Arizona and Houston is a bit worse than cincy but we demolished Houston and Denver handily beat cincy. I call it a wash. Denver has been better, but the fact that New England has been marginally worse while playing without Brady or gronk makes it more impressive for me.I think there is clearer separation in the AFC.
DEN & NE seem to be the cream of the crop. I think the jury is still out on BAL. Steelers are probably in that 2nd tier right now. Probably add the Chiefs & Raiders in there too.
The NFC? Man, I don't know. Not quite sure what to make of this Philly team right now. Same with the Vikings. The old standbys like CAR, GB, & SEA have looked so-so. Giants had a terrible lose yesterday. Your guess is probably as good as mine about who is the top tier there. My guy still tells me that CAR & SEA will be there at the end.
Don't put Pittsburgh to bed just yet. I still put them in the top tier with Denver and New England.
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Does the Bills' smackdown of the Cardinals, and the Dolphins almost losing to the Browns diminish the Pats 3-0 record?
yes.
Absolutely. However, with Pittsburgh getting blown out today, Seattle putting up 15 points in their first two games, Arizona just sucking, Carolina losing two games, and Green Bay starting out shaky, Id still say we have had the most impressive start of any contender. The only two teams I could see being argued would be Denver and Baltimore. Baltimores beaten a bunch of nobodies and Denver Im just quite impressed with. You could easily say theyve been more impressive.
I'm a Denver fan, so I'm biased towards them having had the better start. I'd say they've had to go against better competition, and yesterday's big win on the road against a potential playoff team was eye-opening for Siemien.
In the NFC, Minnesota and Philly have both looked impressive. Particularly Philly, having won all their games by at least 15 points.
Eh. I think Denver has had a tougher schedule but it's close. Carolina and Arizona is basically a wash (especially when Carolina was home and Arizona was on the road) then Indy is better than Arizona and Houston is a bit worse than cincy but we demolished Houston and Denver handily beat cincy. I call it a wash. Denver has been better, but the fact that New England has been marginally worse while playing without Brady or gronk makes it more impressive for me.I think there is clearer separation in the AFC.
DEN & NE seem to be the cream of the crop. I think the jury is still out on BAL. Steelers are probably in that 2nd tier right now. Probably add the Chiefs & Raiders in there too.
The NFC? Man, I don't know. Not quite sure what to make of this Philly team right now. Same with the Vikings. The old standbys like CAR, GB, & SEA have looked so-so. Giants had a terrible lose yesterday. Your guess is probably as good as mine about who is the top tier there. My guy still tells me that CAR & SEA will be there at the end.
Don't put Pittsburgh to bed just yet. I still put them in the top tier with Denver and New England.
Not putting them to bed at all. Just think they're a level below DEN & NE. They're certainly a playoff team.
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Look if the steelers couldnt handle the freaking Wentz led Eagles, they arent a upper echelon team. And it wasnt even a good game, but an utter beat down.
I live in upstate NY, so my football is awful. Luckily I grew up a NE fan (ty multiple family members living in NE, and my opportunity here) so I can say what the patriots have done is amazing. Hindsight is 20/20 but the Cardinals are atleast going to play for the playoffs, the texans will challenge, and the dolphins are the team that always should be better than they are.
I cant wait till bradys comeback against the browns. Im guessing 4/1 td/int and 300ish yards.
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Pats may fall today. Earth is out of orbit.
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Is it just me or is Blount the best RB the Pats have had since Cory Dillon? They only other I can think of is BenJarvis Green Ellis.
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At the very least Blount seems good enough to get teams to respect some play action, making things way way easier for Brady.
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Yes. He's the best primary RB the Pats have had since Dillon.
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Blount looks about 10-15 pounds lighter this season than in past seasons and is noticeably quicker. This year, he's definitely the best primary rb since Dillon. When Lewis is back, they are going to be a two headed beast.
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Man, if the Pats had just a couple playmakers on defense they'd be far and away the best team.
As it is, they're similar to the Steelers. Explosive offense, but the defense just doesn't scare anybody. Can't get off the field.
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Man, if the Pats had just a couple playmakers on defense they'd be far and away the best team.
As it is, they're similar to the Steelers. Explosive offense, but the defense just doesn't scare anybody. Can't get off the field.
If only the Pats had a guy like the Brown's Jamie Collins... he'd be a good fit here :D
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Ugh, what a pathetic way to finish the game. So many shots at the end zone and nothing.
You gotta be able to get stops against good teams.
This Pats team stinks on defense. Mike Lombardi is 100% right. Need to be able to execute on defense. They couldn't, and they lost to a real Super Bowl contender.
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Bend dont break went a little too far tonight.
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Ugh, what a pathetic way to finish the game. So many shots at the end zone and nothing.
You gotta be able to get stops against good teams.
This Pats team stinks on defense. Mike Lombardi is 100% right. Need to be able to execute on defense. They couldn't, and they lost to a real Super Bowl contender.
Can't get off the field on third downs, can't hold on to the ball, can't bang it in the end zone when it matters. Plenty of blame to go around, but offense can't come out of this clean.
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Is the game against the 49ers a trap game for the Pats? They will be without Gronk and Hogan.
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Is the game against the 49ers a trap game for the Pats? They will be without Gronk and Hogan.
Normally I would completely agree, but only if the Pats beat Seattle last Sunday.
I think BB chewed this team out (I hope lol), and rarely do they lose two straight games. I think it will be closer than most people think, but probably something like 35-17 Patriots win.
Hurts that Gronk and Hogan are out but I expect Bennett will have a great game, Edelman as always, and hopefully Amendola can get some catches. I think we will see lots of plays involving James White out of the backfield honestly.
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Nice for the Pats to get the W.
Blount is a beast.
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Big Blue looking better by the week.
Eli with a defense behind him is bad news, especially for Pats' fans. ;)
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Anybody else watch the end of the Ravens game? The NFL will have to look at changing their rules for next season, no team should be able to intentionally hold the entire other team just to run out the clock. It was a really smart move by Harbaugh to know the rules and take advantage, but that was just ridiculous
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Giants keep winning. Defense is looking like the money they invested this summer was well spent. JPP looking like he's getting back to All-Pro form.
Tough schedule coming up, with three division leaders the next three weeks, and then Eagles/Skins. But I'm liking where they are right now. Just get in the playoffs and let Eli get hot. It's a proven formula.
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Once again terrible clock management at the half for the pats. Had only one shot in the end zone because they let 30 seconds just tick off the clock - and they hsd a timeout to use. Baffling. Meanwhile, Gostkowski continues to miss.
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Raiders look legit this year.
I don't think anyone saw that coming.
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Ha!
Looks like I may have jinxed the Raiders, they're falling apart right now.
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Ha!
Looks like I may have jinxed the Raiders, they're falling apart right now.
I was just about to write the same thing. Nice use of jinx - may help Pats.
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Pats badly need a stop here.
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Pats badly need a stop here.
Now Pats need to put more points on the board.
(Ugh, that penalty on McCourty).
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Pats badly need a stop here.
Now Pats need to put more points on the board.
(Ugh, that penalty on McCourty).
Now the Pats need one last stop.
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Pats badly need a stop here.
Now Pats need to put more points on the board.
(Ugh, that penalty on McCourty).
Now the Pats need one last stop.
Now the Pats need to hold on. No fumbles.
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Pats badly need a stop here.
Now Pats need to put more points on the board.
(Ugh, that penalty on McCourty).
Now the Pats need one last stop.
Now the Pats need to hold on. No fumbles.
Done!! You all can thank me. :)
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Ha!
Looks like I may have jinxed the Raiders, they're falling apart right now.
I was just about to write the same thing. Nice use of jinx - may help Pats.
Uh....I think that is a reverse jinx.
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Too bad the KC-Denver game is an 8:30. Can't stay up for it. Will never understand what's wrong with a 7:30 start on Sunday. Monday, I guess I understand that it's still during the west coast work day. But Sunday?
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Too bad the KC-Denver game is an 8:30. Can't stay up for it. Will never understand what's wrong with a 7:30 start on Sunday. Monday, I guess I understand that it's still during the west coast work day. But Sunday?
Gotta have time to get that extra pre-game show in after all the other games are done.
TV dollars, yo!
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Anyone else think the Pats will be lucky to reach the AFC title game this season?
I know Brady is a bit banged up and Gronk missed most of today's game, but they barely beat the lowly Jets, the D has been disappointing for most of the season, and their chances are diminished greatly if Gronk is unavailable down the stretch.
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Anyone else think the Pats will be lucky to reach the AFC title game this season?
I know Brady is a bit banged up and Gronk missed most of today's game, but they barely beat the lowly Jets, the D has been disappointing for most of the season, and their chances are diminished greatly if Gronk is unavailable down the stretch.
Agreed, but not bc of the Jets. The Jets are better than their record (many games they lost were quite close) and they always play well vs the Pats.
But all that's besides the point. The big issue is the Pats D.
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Yeah, I mean the Pats always seem to pull it out (except the Seattle game which they really should have and were so close), but they haven't looked great since Brady first got back. There are still a few games left to work out the kinks, but, yeah, by Patriots standards, they look crappy.
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Yeah, I mean the Pats always seem to pull it out (except the Seattle game which they really should have and were so close), but they haven't looked great since Brady first got back. There are still a few games left to work out the kinks, but, yeah, by Patriots standards, they look crappy.
"By Patriots standards" is a good point. This team is good enough on raw talent to pull out the win most of the time, but if it's a playoff game against a solid opponent ...
I just feel like this is one of those years when they're going to completely hit a wall against a team like Baltimore, as they've done before.
And yes, they should've beat Seattle.
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Yeah, I mean the Pats always seem to pull it out (except the Seattle game which they really should have and were so close), but they haven't looked great since Brady first got back. There are still a few games left to work out the kinks, but, yeah, by Patriots standards, they look crappy.
"By Patriots standards" is a good point. This team is good enough on raw talent to pull out the win most of the time, but if it's a playoff game against a solid opponent ...
I just feel like this is one of those years when they're going to completely hit a wall against a team like Baltimore, as they've done before.
And yes, they should've beat Seattle.
Here are the question marks:
-Gostkowski's ability
-Gronkowski's and M. Bennett's health
-Branch suspension
-Defense, in general. But are they starting to put it together?
Offense. The O-Line seems okay--shaky at times, but overall pretty good thanks to Scar coming back. Brady seems to have a good connection with the WRs (Mitchell was a real draft find), and if Gronk and Bennett are relatively healthy then the TE is good, and with Dion Lewis slowly being worked back in and Blount having a career season, it is pretty hard to complain about offense.
Defense. They came up with the stop when they needed it yesterday, but have been shaky this year. I think Butler had an off day, and I think Rowe is getting better. Safety is fine. LB is fine. The real question mark is about Branch and whether he'll play.
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As things stand I expect the Pats to get to the AFC Championship game and then get beat by a team with a better offense and more playmakers on defense. Probably the Raiders or Steelers.
The Pats just don't scare anybody on defense. I don't think they are solid enough all around to make up for their lack of playmakers -- Chris Long's strip-sack notwithstanding.
I also worry that their running game will disappear in the playoffs given how much they've had to lean on Blount to this point. It's hard to believe he'll hold up.
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As things stand I expect the Pats to get to the AFC Championship game and then get beat by a team with a better offense and more playmakers on defense. Probably the Raiders or Steelers.
The Pats just don't scare anybody on defense. I don't think they are solid enough all around to make up for their lack of playmakers -- Chris Long's strip-sack notwithstanding.
I also worry that their running game will disappear in the playoffs given how much they've had to lean on Blount to this point. It's hard to believe he'll hold up.
Please, oh please, tell me how the Raiders or the Steelers have a better offense.
Also, you think the Steelers have more playmakers on defense? The Patriots have one of the most influential playmakers on defense of the last 5 years- Malcolm Butler. I'm not saying that he's Von Miller. But, c'mon man! The Raiders and the Steelers?
I had to google Oakland's defense. They have Khalil Mack, who is a stud. I don't think they have another player that is better than the player of the same position on the Pats defense.
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As things stand I expect the Pats to get to the AFC Championship game and then get beat by a team with a better offense and more playmakers on defense. Probably the Raiders or Steelers.
The Pats just don't scare anybody on defense. I don't think they are solid enough all around to make up for their lack of playmakers -- Chris Long's strip-sack notwithstanding.
I also worry that their running game will disappear in the playoffs given how much they've had to lean on Blount to this point. It's hard to believe he'll hold up.
No team is perfect. And the Pats certainly have holes. But I think this is mostly on defense, not offense. For defense, the biggest issue is lack of turnovers. Used to be a point of pride for the Pats.
On the running game, I'm actually cautiously optimistic about Dion Lewis' return. Overall, so long as Gronk and Bennett can play, then I'm not too concerned about the offence (yes, that's a big IF).
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The only team that scares me is Denver in Denver and thats looking really unlikely.
Oaklands defense isnt good enough and I think they are too young. Im not at all afraid of Pittsburgh or the AFC south. I dont really want to see Baltimore, but Id still expect us to beat them.
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Im actually excited about the Pats defense. I expect them to get hot going into the playoffs.
They are still very talented on that side of the ball even without Collins and Jones.
The offense is completely reliant on health.
If enough of the O gets healthy we will be fine.
Brady Blount and Gronk MUST be healthy. We have depth for everyone else.
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The only team that scares me is Denver in Denver and thats looking really unlikely.
Oaklands defense isnt good enough and I think they are too young. Im not at all afraid of Pittsburgh or the AFC south. I dont really want to see Baltimore, but Id still expect us to beat them.
I agree with this. Denver has an average offense and a very good defense. In a tight, snowy game in Denver, they can beat the Patriots. Other than that, I'm more concerned about Seattle and Dallas.
Can the Patriots lose to any team? Yes. Are they likely to lose (at home) to any of the teams in the AFC? No.
I'll take Brady over Dak in a SB any day. Wilson is more impressive, but he put up 3 pts against TB's defense yesterday. Yikes.
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Gronk out until at least the Super Bowl. Back surgery.
Soooo .... pretty much seals it for me. Another year where the ceiling for the Pats is the AFC Championship game.
Will the Pats have home field? The remaining games are:
- Rams
- Ravens
- @ Broncos
- Jets
- @ Dolphins
That feels like 3-2 to me, but it's December and Brady is Brady so perhaps they'll go 4-1 instead.
12-4, that get you the #1 seed?
Next question: If the Pats are hosting the Raiders, Broncos, Steelers, or Chiefs, assuming relative health, do you feel good about that game?
What if they're on the road, instead?
I just don't have any faith in the Pats' defense, and their offense historically has a lot of trouble creating a lot of openings against quality opponents without Gronk on the field. If an injury causes Edelman or Bennett to miss any time, even a couple quarters of a key game, the offense could totally stall out.
Oh well. The Pats will win 11+ games again, host a playoff game again, and probably get to the AFC Championship again. We're spoiled.
It's a bummer, though. I love watching Gronk play.
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If the D can improve and the O can stay healthy, I see no reason the Pats can't play with any team in the NFL. This receiving core isn't Jabar Gaffney and Co., Pats have Edelman, Amendola, Hogan, Mitchel, and now both White and Lewis out of the backfield. In addition, they have Gronk, Jr in Bennett. I think they are a top offensive team without Gronk as long as they stay healthy.
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Gronk out until at least the Super Bowl. Back surgery.
Soooo .... pretty much seals it for me. Another year where the ceiling for the Pats is the AFC Championship game.
Will the Pats have home field? The remaining games are:
- Rams
- Ravens
- @ Broncos
- Jets
- @ Dolphins
That feels like 3-2 to me, but it's December and Brady is Brady so perhaps they'll go 4-1 instead.
12-4, that get you the #1 seed?
Next question: If the Pats are hosting the Raiders, Broncos, Steelers, or Chiefs, assuming relative health, do you feel good about that game?
What if they're on the road, instead?
I just don't have any faith in the Pats' defense, and their offense historically has a lot of trouble creating a lot of openings against quality opponents without Gronk on the field. If an injury causes Edelman or Bennett to miss any time, even a couple quarters of a key game, the offense could totally stall out.
Oh well. The Pats will win 11+ games again, host a playoff game again, and probably get to the AFC Championship again. We're spoiled.
It's a bummer, though. I love watching Gronk play.
Well that blows. Gronk out AGAIN?! I couldn't even tell he got injured on that play.
I already had a feeling they'd be lucky to reach the AFC title game, now I'm sure they won't. Another year of Gronk's career wasted, along with another of Brady's (and he's got precious few left).
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Gronk out until at least the Super Bowl. Back surgery.
Soooo .... pretty much seals it for me. Another year where the ceiling for the Pats is the AFC Championship game.
Will the Pats have home field? The remaining games are:
- Rams
- Ravens
- @ Broncos
- Jets
- @ Dolphins
That feels like 3-2 to me, but it's December and Brady is Brady so perhaps they'll go 4-1 instead.
12-4, that get you the #1 seed?
Next question: If the Pats are hosting the Raiders, Broncos, Steelers, or Chiefs, assuming relative health, do you feel good about that game?
What if they're on the road, instead?
I just don't have any faith in the Pats' defense, and their offense historically has a lot of trouble creating a lot of openings against quality opponents without Gronk on the field. If an injury causes Edelman or Bennett to miss any time, even a couple quarters of a key game, the offense could totally stall out.
Oh well. The Pats will win 11+ games again, host a playoff game again, and probably get to the AFC Championship again. We're spoiled.
It's a bummer, though. I love watching Gronk play.
Overreaction. Marty Bennett is a top 10 TE. Brady has a healthy offensive line and a lot of weapons at his disposal. In general, the Patriots' problem in the playoffs is generally their inability to score, not their defense.
The AFC west should beat eachother up. Only games I'm concerned about are the Broncos and Dolphins games. At 12-4, they should have the best QB and a 1 or a 2 seed. Bring on Derek Carr, Siemian, or Alex Smith in NE. Roethlisberger is better, but their defense isn't impressive.
Gronk is a huge loss. Maybe the most talented TE in history with a body that can't stay intact. He plays physically, but he fell in the draft due to lower back problems. Over 6 years later, its an issue again.
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Oh and watch the Cowboys tonight. They don't look impressive at all. Seattle is legit, but they scored 5, yes 5, in their last football game against Tampa Bay! That means their offense scored 3 points. Atlanta can score but not a very good defense. Arizona hasn't been impressive.
Let's not run to the hills b/c of the Gronk injury. It blows, but they planned for it by signing Bennett.
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Pats draft needs:
TE, CB, DT, K, RB
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If we don't make the Super Bowl, it won't necessarily be because of Gronk being injured (they've already played like 4-5 games this season without him and have fared well). I have faith Bennett will continue carrying the load, Malcolm Mitchell is stepping up and now Amendola might have a bigger role as well.
THE DEFENSE THOUGH, DEAR LORD..., they make struggling QBs look like Joe Montana in his prime. I could easily see any of the AFC West Playoff Teams shredding this "swiss cheese secondary" and nonexistent pass rush in the playoffs.
Many years the Pats make the playoffs, the offense and TB12 are fine, but the defense is mediocre. It's no coincidence that the year NE had a great defense with great corners (2014)... they won a SB. Then the defense was dismantled and not adequately replaced...
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If we don't make the Super Bowl, it won't necessarily be because of Gronk being injured (they've already played like 4-5 games this season without him and have fared well). I have faith Bennett will continue carrying the load, Malcolm Mitchell is stepping up and now Amendola might have a bigger role as well.
THE DEFENSE THOUGH, DEAR LORD..., they make struggling QBs look like Joe Montana in his prime. I could easily see any of the AFC West Playoff Teams shredding this "swiss cheese secondary" and nonexistent pass rush in the playoffs.
Many years the Pats make the playoffs, the offense and TB12 are fine, but the defense is mediocre. It's no coincidence that the year NE had a great defense with great corners (2014)... they won a SB. Then the defense was dismantled and not adequately replaced...
A couple memorable games:
First NYG Super Bowl: 17-14 loss
2nd: 21-17 loss
First Den AFC championship: 26-16 loss
2nd: 20-18 loss
I would say offense is the issue in these games.
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Terrible news, but not the end of the world. Having Bennett saves the TE receiving quite a bit even though he's not Gronk.
The game in Denver seems like an auto-loss, but am hoping to pull out the others. If not, but we still get home field, then we should at least make it to the AFC Championship where anything can happen.
I just want to see more playmaking out of our defense and fewer heads-up-our-ashes plays like last week (TB timeout in the 1st which led to successful review/punt stands out to me).
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Terrible news, but not the end of the world. Having Bennett saves the TE receiving quite a bit even though he's not Gronk.
The game in Denver seems like an auto-loss, but am hoping to pull out the others. If not, but we still get home field, then we should at least make it to the AFC Championship where anything can happen.
I just want to see more playmaking out of our defense and fewer heads-up-our-ashes plays like last week (TB timeout in the 1st which led to successful review/punt stands out to me).
People are relying on the Bennett binkie, but I'm not sure how he'll do. He has a couple of nagging injuries himself, plus I'm not sure he's established a good connection with Brady—though that may have to do with the fact that the team has used Bennett mostly in a blocking role.
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NE Wins, Brady becomes the winningest player in NFL History, and the Dolphins lost (pretty much sealing the AFC East for good).
Oh, and now the Raiders are losing (Bills lead 24-9). Too bad the Chiefs and Broncos won though >:(
Brutal stretch ahead: BAL, @DEN, NYJ, @MIA
Typically have trouble against Denver and Miami on the road, and Baltimore plays us tough no matter where the game is played. Going out of that stretch 3-1 would be amazing but may take a bit of a miracle as well...
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NE Wins, Brady becomes the most winning-est player in NFL History (is "winning-est" a word lol?), and the Dolphins lost (pretty much sealing the AFC East for good).
Oh, and now the Raiders are losing (Bills lead 24-9). Too bad the Chiefs and Broncos won though >:(
Brutal stretch ahead: BAL, @DEN, NYJ, @MIA
Typically have trouble against Denver and Miami on the road, and Baltimore plays us tough no matter where the game is played. Going out of that stretch 3-1 would be amazing but may take a bit of a miracle as well...
winningest is a word. most winningest is incorrect. He is just winningest QB in NFL history.
Schedule is pretty tough down the stretch. Denver on the road is tough and Baltimore is just tough.
Miami is always tough on the road, but its a bit easier to go play them in December as opposed to early in the year.
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NE Wins, Brady becomes the most winning-est player in NFL History (is "winning-est" a word lol?), and the Dolphins lost (pretty much sealing the AFC East for good).
Oh, and now the Raiders are losing (Bills lead 24-9). Too bad the Chiefs and Broncos won though >:(
Brutal stretch ahead: BAL, @DEN, NYJ, @MIA
Typically have trouble against Denver and Miami on the road, and Baltimore plays us tough no matter where the game is played. Going out of that stretch 3-1 would be amazing but may take a bit of a miracle as well...
winningest is a word. most winningest is incorrect. He is just winningest QB in NFL history.
Schedule is pretty tough down the stretch. Denver on the road is tough and Baltimore is just tough.
Miami is always tough on the road, but its a bit easier to go play them in December as opposed to early in the year.
Thanks! Yeah that makes more sense lol.
I see us winning against the Jets at home (unless they have a complete meltdown).
Maybe Brady and offense can have better success against Denver's defense this year (which is tough but looks more vulnerable than past years).
Regardless, defense needs to step up big time.
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Is there any scenario remaining where the Pats and Raiders finish tied, and Pats get the #1 seed?
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Such a satisfying win tonight for Big Blue.
Screw the Cowboys.
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If we don't make the Super Bowl, it won't necessarily be because of Gronk being injured (they've already played like 4-5 games this season without him and have fared well). I have faith Bennett will continue carrying the load, Malcolm Mitchell is stepping up and now Amendola might have a bigger role as well.
THE DEFENSE THOUGH, DEAR LORD..., they make struggling QBs look like Joe Montana in his prime. I could easily see any of the AFC West Playoff Teams shredding this "swiss cheese secondary" and nonexistent pass rush in the playoffs.
Many years the Pats make the playoffs, the offense and TB12 are fine, but the defense is mediocre. It's no coincidence that the year NE had a great defense with great corners (2014)... they won a SB. Then the defense was dismantled and not adequately replaced...
A couple memorable games:
First NYG Super Bowl: 17-14 loss
2nd: 21-17 loss
First Den AFC championship: 26-16 loss
2nd: 20-18 loss
I would say offense is the issue in these games.
Our opponents had the better defensive talent in all 4 of those losses. Swap the defenses and we win.
Include the Ravens and Jets losses and the list grows. There will be games where the opposing defense is playing so well that points will be sparse. Games like the 17-14 Super Bowl win against the Rams, or the 17-14 second-round win against Steve McNair's Titans in 2004.
It's so hard to beat a hot defense in the playoffs. Dominant defenses win championships. Brady keeps us competitive, but when a team is playing as well as the Broncos were in the playoffs last year, there is literally nowhere to throw the ball.
Hard to fault our offense when those same opposing teams go on to beat everyone else on their way to win championships.
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If we don't make the Super Bowl, it won't necessarily be because of Gronk being injured (they've already played like 4-5 games this season without him and have fared well). I have faith Bennett will continue carrying the load, Malcolm Mitchell is stepping up and now Amendola might have a bigger role as well.
THE DEFENSE THOUGH, DEAR LORD..., they make struggling QBs look like Joe Montana in his prime. I could easily see any of the AFC West Playoff Teams shredding this "swiss cheese secondary" and nonexistent pass rush in the playoffs.
Many years the Pats make the playoffs, the offense and TB12 are fine, but the defense is mediocre. It's no coincidence that the year NE had a great defense with great corners (2014)... they won a SB. Then the defense was dismantled and not adequately replaced...
A couple memorable games:
First NYG Super Bowl: 17-14 loss
2nd: 21-17 loss
First Den AFC championship: 26-16 loss
2nd: 20-18 loss
I would say offense is the issue in these games.
Our opponents had the better defensive talent in all 4 of those losses. Swap the defenses and we win.
Include the Ravens losses and the list grows. There will be games where the opposing defense is playing so well that points will be sparse. Games like the 17-14 Super Bowl win against the Rams, or the 17-14 second-round win against Steve McNair's Titans in 2004.
It's so hard to beat a hot defense in the playoffs. Dominant defenses win championships. Brady keeps us competitive, but when a team is playing as well as the Broncos were in the playoffs last year, there is literally nowhere to throw the ball.
Hard to fault our offense when those same opposing teams go on to beat everyone else on their way to win championships.
I could be made to look like a total idiot here, because I havent looked up any TOP numbers, but I believe the book on beating the patriots has been to keep the ball out of bradys hands and hope you can keep Brady out of rythym long enough that you he either doesnt have time to come back or you have a chance to win it against our defense.
and look at that. I was totally wrong about TOP.
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If we don't make the Super Bowl, it won't necessarily be because of Gronk being injured (they've already played like 4-5 games this season without him and have fared well). I have faith Bennett will continue carrying the load, Malcolm Mitchell is stepping up and now Amendola might have a bigger role as well.
THE DEFENSE THOUGH, DEAR LORD..., they make struggling QBs look like Joe Montana in his prime. I could easily see any of the AFC West Playoff Teams shredding this "swiss cheese secondary" and nonexistent pass rush in the playoffs.
Many years the Pats make the playoffs, the offense and TB12 are fine, but the defense is mediocre. It's no coincidence that the year NE had a great defense with great corners (2014)... they won a SB. Then the defense was dismantled and not adequately replaced...
A couple memorable games:
First NYG Super Bowl: 17-14 loss
2nd: 21-17 loss
First Den AFC championship: 26-16 loss
2nd: 20-18 loss
I would say offense is the issue in these games.
Our opponents had the better defensive talent in all 4 of those losses. Swap the defenses and we win.
Include the Ravens losses and the list grows. There will be games where the opposing defense is playing so well that points will be sparse. Games like the 17-14 Super Bowl win against the Rams, or the 17-14 second-round win against Steve McNair's Titans in 2004.
It's so hard to beat a hot defense in the playoffs. Dominant defenses win championships. Brady keeps us competitive, but when a team is playing as well as the Broncos were in the playoffs last year, there is literally nowhere to throw the ball.
Hard to fault our offense when those same opposing teams go on to beat everyone else on their way to win championships.
I could be made to look like a total idiot here, because I havent looked up any TOP numbers, but I believe the book on beating the patriots has been to keep the ball out of bradys hands and hope you can keep Brady out of rythym long enough that you he either doesnt have time to come back or you have a chance to win it against our defense.
I've always thought the whole "keep the ball out of their hands" thing is really just code for "play good defense, and exploit the other team's bad defense."
If you're limiting Brady's time of possession and keeping him out of rhythm then you're probably playing very good defense.
Likewise is you have a lot of long drives against the pats it likely means the Pats D isn't playing too well.
Those are ingredients for success against any club.
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It's like Cyrus Jones did everything he could to get a foot on that ball. I guess we should probably say our good-byes to him tonight.
And now Slater with the kick-off fumble. I think they just need to play without anybody receiving kicks.
Without those fumbles and the ridiculous INT by Brady, the Pats would be up by quite a bit more. Will be really said if we lose this one.
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It's like Cyrus Jones did everything he could to get a foot on that ball. I guess we should probably say our good-byes to him tonight.
And now Slater with the kick-off fumble. I think they just need to play without anybody receiving kicks.
Without those fumbles and the ridiculous INT by Brady, the Pats would be up by quite a bit more. Will be really said if we lose this one.
Id be shocked to see jones cut if thats the implication.
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It's like Cyrus Jones did everything he could to get a foot on that ball. I guess we should probably say our good-byes to him tonight.
And now Slater with the kick-off fumble. I think they just need to play without anybody receiving kicks.
Without those fumbles and the ridiculous INT by Brady, the Pats would be up by quite a bit more. Will be really said if we lose this one.
Id be shocked to see jones cut if thats the implication.
If this were his first mistake, but he's hsd 4.
They really need to see something special in him to keep him on this roster going forward.
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It's like Cyrus Jones did everything he could to get a foot on that ball. I guess we should probably say our good-byes to him tonight.
And now Slater with the kick-off fumble. I think they just need to play without anybody receiving kicks.
Without those fumbles and the ridiculous INT by Brady, the Pats would be up by quite a bit more. Will be really said if we lose this one.
Id be shocked to see jones cut if thats the implication.
If this were his first mistake, but he's hsd 4.
They really need to see something special in him to keep him on this roster going forward.
I suppose they kept him after the first three fumbles so anything is possible. BB doesn't usually have much patience for butter-finger players.
Edit: huge let down again for Jones...
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Pats D has been on the field this entire hslf. They are buckling
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BIG sigh of relief. Thank you Hogan! ;D
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It's like Cyrus Jones did everything he could to get a foot on that ball. I guess we should probably say our good-byes to him tonight.
And now Slater with the kick-off fumble. I think they just need to play without anybody receiving kicks.
Without those fumbles and the ridiculous INT by Brady, the Pats would be up by quite a bit more. Will be really said if we lose this one.
Id be shocked to see jones cut if thats the implication.
If this were his first mistake, but he's hsd 4.
They really need to see something special in him to keep him on this roster going forward.
I suppose they kept him after the first three fumbles so anything is possible. BB doesn't usually have much patience for butter-finger players.
Edit: huge let down again for Jones...
Worse than inexplicably deciding to play footsy with the bouncing ball, was not even making an attempt to dive on the ball afterwards. The guy is totally lost out there.
Take the win!
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That strip sack which was ruled "forward progress" was a truly horrible call. Just atrocious, suspiciously so. Never seen such a fast, fluid sack stopped due to forward progress.
Found the vid of the play here (though the author of the post in the link is severely misguided)
http://www.sbnation.com/2016/12/12/13931522/forward-progress-rule-patriots-ravens-joe-flacco-sack-fumble
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Pats claim WR Michael Floyd from Arizona.
-$1.4M remaining on contract.
-13th pick of 2012 draft
-Played under Weiss at Notre Dame
http://blog.masslive.com/patriots/2016/12/michael_floyd_patriots_cardina.html
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I like the Floyd signing. The locker room seems to like him and hopefully he learns his lesson on the DUI front. I feel like he could do really, really well here. Belichick will just release him if he doesn't stop partying and we freed up money for this season by moving Jamie Collins. TP for the news.
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I like the Floyd signing. The locker room seems to like him and hopefully he learns his lesson on the DUI front. I feel like he could do really, really well here. Belichick will just release him if he doesn't stop partying and we freed up money for this season by moving Jamie Collins. TP for the news.
Agreed. It seems like a no brainer for a contending team. Doesn't make sense for a team like Cleveland, of course.
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Crazy freaky play near the end of the Seattle-L.A. game: Seattle perfectly executes a fake punt, with the punter taking the snap and running straight up the gut with tons of open field ahead, but near the end of the play—with no one touching him, no one even near him—he loses the ball, bobbles it a couple of times, then grabs it as he's falling, gets hit as he hits the ground, fumbles and gets injured, but Seattle recovers and ends up with a 33-yard gain.
Take a look. (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2016121500/2016/REG15/rams@seahawks#menu=drivechart%7CcontentId%3A0ap3000000757583&tab=videos)
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I like the Floyd signing. The locker room seems to like him and hopefully he learns his lesson on the DUI front. I feel like he could do really, really well here. Belichick will just release him if he doesn't stop partying and we freed up money for this season by moving Jamie Collins. TP for the news.
Isn't the possibility of a compensatory draft pick a possible reason to pick him up, and then retain him until the end of the season?
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December 24, 2016. Tough day to be a Jets fan.
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[dang]! Is anyone still worried about not having Gronk?
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December 24, 2016. Tough day to be a Jets fan.
Or a Raiders or Titans fan. Ugh. Bad injuries.
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Yeah, both young QBs coming into their own. Obviously Carr has had more success, but Mariota has looked good in many games. I think they will both be starting in the playoffs next year. Also, both get saved from playing the buzzsaw that is Tom Brady.
Tom's on a mission. His brand has taken a hit. Right or wrong, the guy cares about how he's perceived. He doesn't want deflated balls anywhere near the end of his story. He is deserving of the MVP this year, and his team is the odds-on-favorite to win the Super Bowl. Patriots fans have a lot of reasons to be grateful.
Merry Christmas!
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What a block by Floyd to spring Edelman.
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What a block by Floyd to spring Edelman.
Got a hand to the guy, he definitely made his presence known today. Something to make the headaches seem very worth while.
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Normally I don't care about MVP awards, all-star/pro-bowl appearances, HOF -- but this year's NFL MVP vote is intriguing to me given the deflategate suspension. Does Brady deserve the award with his 28/2 TD/Int ratio, 112 qb rating?
Matt Ryan should be the biggest competition and I think it will difficult to vote against him. Going into today Ryan had 34 TDs to 7 ints, 115 qb rating, over 4000 yards. Guy is deserving. Who would you vote for?
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Normally I don't care about MVP awards, all-star/pro-bowl appearances, HOF -- but this year's NFL MVP vote is intriguing to me given the deflategate suspension. Does Brady deserve the award with his 28/2 TD/Int ratio, 112 qb rating?
Matt Ryan should be the biggest competition and I think it will difficult to vote against him. Going into today Ryan had 34 TDs to 7 ints, 115 qb rating, over 4000 yards. Guy is deserving. Who would you vote for?
I think it goes to Ryan over Brady because of Deflategate. There's probably some sort of stats category in which Ryan handily beats Brady, and people will lean on that to justify Ryan.
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Pats were 3-1 without Brady. Just sayin.
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WOW, GB is getting spanked by ATL at the half. GB could still win it. I'll never forget that time that NE led Indy by 21 at the half, and Indy went on to win the game (it might have been an AFC championship in mid 2000s)
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WOW, GB is getting spanked by ATL at the half. GB could still win it. I'll never forget that time that NE led Indy by 21 at the half, and Indy went on to win the game (it might have been an AFC championship in mid 2000s)
That was awful.
But yeah, right now Atlanta is rolling.
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Game is being dominated shockingly by Atlanta at this point. 31-0. Is Atlanta really this good, or has Green Bay been way over-hyped over the course of their current run.
Green Bay will have to play a perfect game from this point to have any prayer. And... their starting RB is heading for the locker room.
This is as over as it gets this early in an NFL playoff game. Packers need to find Frank Reich.
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Game is being dominated shockingly by Atlanta at this point. 31-0. Is Atlanta really this good, or has Green Bay been way over-hyped over the course of their current run.
Green Bay will have to play a perfect game from this point to have any prayer. And... their starting RB is heading for the locker room.
This is as over as it gets this early in an NFL playoff game. Packers need to find Frank Reich.
I don't think GB has been over hyped. They are a good team. Sometimes this is what happens in the NFL.
Anyway, GB now down 31 points w 19 mins left. So over. Too bad. I like GB.