CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: BudweiserCeltic on July 02, 2016, 07:16:24 PM
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David Aldridge
League source: Horford to Boston.
Adrian Wojnarowski @WojVerticalNBA
Al Horford plans to sign a four-year, $113M deal with the Boston Celtics, league sources tells @TheVertical.
Ramona Shelburne @ramonashelburne
Al Horford's four-year, $113 million deal with the Celtics includes a player option after the third year,... http://es.pn/29hQtRh
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YEAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH
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Adrian Wojnarowski @WojVerticalNBA
Al Horford plans to sign a four-year, $113M deal with the Boston Celtics, league sources tells @TheVertical.
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Good news!! WOOOOIIIOIO!
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I think I need treatment for whiplash.
Good deal. We will be better on the floor next year.
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Right after Woj said it was over lol. What a 180!!
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AL! AL! AL!
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Great day!
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KD next...come on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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ECF here we come!!!!!!
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Now KD
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Right after Woj said it was over lol. What a 180!!
Wonder if all those folk so hating on Al in other thread have even seen this phenomenal news or still wallowing in their hope and despair.
Oh ye of little faith!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Al Horford @Al_Horford
Celtic Pride!!!!!! 🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀
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Gino Time in July!!!
Mike
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I TAKE BACK EVERYTHING I SAID I LOVE IT! I'M SO HAPPY!
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Woooooooooooooooooooooooo
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Wow. Should we thank Tom Brady?
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Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Celtics pride baby. Hell yeah celtics fam
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Horford we love you!!!! Sorry for not believing
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Adrian Wojnarowski @WojVerticalNBA
Sources on @TheVertical: Boston and Washington have emerged as frontrunners to sign All-Star forward Al Horford.
1mAdrian Wojnarowski @WojVerticalNBA
Boston and Washington have rapidly lost hope of Al Horford leaving the Hawks, league sources tell @TheVertical
Adrian Wojnarowski @WojVerticalNBA
Al Horford plans to sign a four-year, $113M deal with the Boston Celtics, league sources tells @TheVertical.
The rumor mill is pretty entertaining sometimes.
Psyched about Horford, he's an upgrade.
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Still not a FA destination?
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AL! AL! AL!
Now I can start celebrating!
(http://pngimg.com/upload/beer_PNG2388.png)
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I JUST WANT TO SAY, I LOVE YOU GUYS!!!
WAHOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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Party time!
Now we just need Durant to join him!
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Fantastic! Huge upgrade, now on to Durant!
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That was an emotional afternoon/evening. Now onto the real moon shot of landing KD!!
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This is me right now!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTzHir-jmes
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Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!
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Shots on me!!!
Just come to a bar by me
Tampa Florida!!!
Let's go celtics!!!!!!!!!
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I am still not sure whether I even want Horford on that contract. At least he will improve the team considerably in the short term. I worry about the back end of that contract though. I do not think Horford will age well. As his athleticism continues to decline, I think his lack of size as a center will become tougher and tougher for him to overcome.
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Horford did the right thing lol. OMG. He's a fantastic human being.
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My username has meaning again.
LETS GO!!!
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Danny! Danny!! Danny!!!
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Holy crap yes!!!!
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Welcome Al! Greatness starts now.
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My hopes were way down. This is awesome!
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Wow!
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmZXoYdXYAAPWSn.jpg:large)
18 shamrocks.
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Adrian Wojnarowski @WojVerticalNBA
Hawks believed Horford's heart was with them, would accept last offer. Horford dropped demand of full 5-year max but sides never closed gap.
Adrian Wojnarowski @WojVerticalNBA
Sources: Tremendous momentum for Hawks in final hours, w/ Horford returning and giving Hawks chance. In end, Hawks, Horford $6M total apart.
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Adrian Wojnarowski @WojVerticalNBA 2m2 minutes ago
Sources: Tremendous momentum for Hawks in final hours, w/ Horford returning and giving Hawks chance. In end, Hawks, Horford $6M total apart.
Wow, VERY close to losing out. Glad the Hawks couldn't/wouldn't pony up.
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Now hopefully the negative whiners will keep quiet at least for a while...
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Yesssssssss!
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Welcome to Boston, Al Horford!!! There's no turning back now. This is not a rebuilding team; it's a win-now team, Durant or no Durant.
Come on, KD, be a Celtic!!!
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I have to give props where it's due, but David Aldridge has been VERY VERY on-point this summer with his sources.
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This is so awesome! Especially since I'd lowered my free-agent expectations so as to avoid disappointment. ;)
WELCOME TO BOSTON, AL!!! You're gonna love it!
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But that draft tho :o lol
(Just mock in the haters)
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Adrian Wojnarowski @WojVerticalNBA
Horford had been incredibly intrigued with Wizards and there was a time that he preferred Washington's talent over Boston's. Wild finish.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmZXoYdXYAAPWSn.jpg:large)
18 shamrocks.
That is an absolute awesome way to announce him coming to Boston! I hope either him or Durant take number 18, since they'll lead us to our 18th banner!
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Wow! Maybe Durant is coming too!
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The deal came after the kd meeting. I am feeling good guys
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Was he awful in the playoffs or is it just me?
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SOOOOO HAPPY & RELIEVED RIGHT NOW!!!!
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My hopes were way down. This is awesome!
Mine were too, though that was basically deliberate—usually I have high expectations and end up disappointed, but this time was the opposite!!!
YAY FOR LOW EXPECTATIONS!!! ;D
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I experienced or am experiencing some true euphoria right now. This goes beyond the scope of next season or whether or not we land Durant.
This certifies Boston and silences the "Boston cannot bring in a real free agent" crowd. I am ecstatic.
DANNY AINGE!!!!
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My username has meaning again.
LETS GO!!!
AWESOME TP!
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Ainge knew something yall did not know
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I feel so relieved. Almost giddy.
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My username has meaning again.
LETS GO!!!
TP I legit laughed out loud
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So happy my pessimistic ass was wrong!
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmZXoYdXYAAPWSn.jpg:large)
18 shamrocks.
That is an absolute awesome way to announce him coming to Boston! I hope either him or Durant take number 18, since they'll lead us to our 18th banner!
Well, that belongs to Cowens, but I totally agree that it's a fantastic way to announce his decision.
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Was he awful in the playoffs or is it just me?
certainly wasnt very good, but I like the move based on the way FA had been panning out across the league.
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DANNY AINGE: The King of GMs.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmZXoYdXYAAPWSn.jpg:large)
18 shamrocks.
That is an absolute awesome way to announce him coming to Boston! I hope either him or Durant take number 18, since they'll lead us to our 18th banner!
Please get that ATL jersey off the man. He is a Boston Celtic!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I have been envisioning horford in white & green home uniform since they ousted us from the playoffs. I was just starting to lose that hope with all of the negative reports today thinking we lost him...so happy.
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And this is just such a brilliant signing in light of all the other insane signings of mediocre players the past few days.
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Please yall don't forget to thank Billy King and the Bklyn Nets.
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So happy my pessimistic ass was wrong!
Me too ;D
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Best FA signing in Celtics history. Welcome to Boston, Al.
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So happy my pessimistic ass was wrong!
Me too ;D
Coming here to eat crow. I cannot f'n believe we got him!!! I'VE NEVER BEEN HAPPIER TO BE WRONG! WOOOOOO! LET'S GO.....F IT.....BRING ON KD! LET'S DO THIS. GIVE ME THE KOOL AID! MAKE EVERYONE A CELTICS! #18! WOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
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So happy my pessimistic ass was wrong!
Me too ;D
I forgive all the pessimists and welcome them with open arms!!😀😀
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Adrian Wojnarowski @WojVerticalNBA 3m3 minutes ago
Quote
Horford had been incredibly intrigued with Wizards and there was a time that he preferred Washington's talent over Boston's. Wild finish.
KD probably convinced him in the end... 8)
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So does this mean Koz is stewing? And I'm eating crow as we speak. So happy to do so.
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SOOOO.l, anyone still upset we didn't sign someone like Parsons or Mozgov?
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Adrian Wojnarowski @WojVerticalNBA 3m3 minutes ago
Quote
Horford had been incredibly intrigued with Wizards and there was a time that he preferred Washington's talent over Boston's. Wild finish.
KD probably convinced him in the end... 8)
I mean, that's a pretty major coincidence in that timing if not. Like twenty minutes after the meeting ends he decides on Boston??
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So does this mean Koz is stewing? And I'm eating crow as we speak. So happy to do so.
All is good dude, what's great for the Celtics is great for us all!!! This is awesome!!!
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Adrian Wojnarowski @WojVerticalNBA
Sources: Kevin Durant had been recruiting Horford to OKC, but Horford eliminated OKC with no assurance Durant/Westbrook staying long-term.
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lol the rage on the washington blog is killin me right now :laugh: :laugh: ;D ;D
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Adrian Wojnarowski @WojVerticalNBA
Sources: Kevin Durant had been recruiting Horford to OKC, but Horford eliminated OKC with no assurance Durant/Westbrook staying long-term.
No problem. Durant can just come to Boston now and it's all good.
The grass IS GREENER here KD.
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Adrian Wojnarowski @WojVerticalNBA
Sources: Kevin Durant had been recruiting Horford to OKC, but Horford eliminated OKC with no assurance Durant/Westbrook staying long-term.
ok some of this is getting more interesting now...that and the news that KD was on the plane with Brady...
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That is awesome. I was just saying what we need are guys who are willing to work at something bigger and improve vs going for guaranteed money without having to work for it or a shot at a title. That's celtic pride.
Then boom Aldridge owned Woj.
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Sam Amick @sam_amick 9m9 minutes ago
And talk about timing: I'm told the Celtics meeting with Kevin Durant in the Hamptons is still going as we speak (tweet).
Could this be true?!!!
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I was eating dinner and so depressed reading other topic.how we has going back to.atlanta and suddenly, when food was getting ready to come up, boom! Horford signs with us!! I am beyond excited we were.able to convince Horford to leave only team he knew to help us raise 18 in the near future. He will be perfect personality fit with Stevens and our team
CALL Durant and join you in Celtics Green. No more we can't sign free agents anymore...
A big congrats to Ainge and recruiting support...thank you for not caving on draft day and getting Noel..now we have a better shot at Durant as well.....
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That's a lot of money for a #3, but I guess this is just the going rate for a good player this year.
On the court, he shores up our biggest weakness. Need him to stay healthy, but the Celtics are a better team now than they were an hour ago.
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Adrian Wojnarowski @WojVerticalNBA
Sources: Kevin Durant had been recruiting Horford to OKC, but Horford eliminated OKC with no assurance Durant/Westbrook staying long-term.
ok some of this is getting more interesting now...that and the news that KD was on the plane with Brady...
Ainge during the negotiations with Durant: "fine, you can borrow Tom Brady if you like"
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Mark Murphy @Murf56 3m3 minutes ago Boston, MA
Brady active in the Durant meeting. Said someone privy to meeting: "Tom told him what it's like to play in Boston, how special it is."
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Let's not get too optimistic. After all, we've only ever had one big FA signing.
;)
Mike
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Adrian Wojnarowski @WojVerticalNBA
Sources: Kevin Durant had been recruiting Horford to OKC, but Horford eliminated OKC with no assurance Durant/Westbrook staying long-term.
And how many of us have been saying that Westbrook's future plans are going to dictate whether or not KD stays in OKC??
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I love the fact that DA held assets rather then trading for Horford mid season
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Royce Young @royceyoung 11m11 minutes ago
Something seems to have dramatically swung Horford choosing Boston. I'm sure the windows at the OKC practice facility rattled a bit just now
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Welcome Horford! His game will age well!
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TP for everyone...even the the draft day, sky is falling, fire Ainge haters.
We actually have a shot to sign a top 3 player in the league....unreal.
Genius long game played and planned by Danny Ainge...wow....blown away.
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Let's not get too optimistic. After all, we've only ever had one big FA signing.
;)
Mike
once the floodgates open you cant keep the water in.
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Horford is like if Jared Sullinger got the treatment that turned Steve Rogers into Captain America.
This is awesome.
I love Al Horford.
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Celtics are now the 2nd best team in the East. A 52-55 win team.
PG: Isaiah, Rozier
SG: Avery, Smart
SF: Crowder, Jaylen Brown
PF: Amir, Jerebko, Mickey
C: Horford, Olynyk
Horford moves us past Toronto and the newly improved Indiana Pacers.
Even without Durant.
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Gotta admit, I never thought it would get this far with Durant.
Royce Young is a huge OKC homer.
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Adrian Wojnarowski @WojVerticalNBA
Sources: Kevin Durant had been recruiting Horford to OKC, but Horford eliminated OKC with no assurance Durant/Westbrook staying long-term.
ok some of this is getting more interesting now...that and the news that KD was on the plane with Brady...
Ainge during the negotiations with Durant: "fine, you can borrow Tom Brady if you like"
for the first four weeks of football season, anyway.
But there's no reason that KD can't be #12.
Mike
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Adrian Wojnarowski @WojVerticalNBA
Sources: Kevin Durant had been recruiting Horford to OKC, but Horford eliminated OKC with no assurance Durant/Westbrook staying long-term.
ok some of this is getting more interesting now...that and the news that KD was on the plane with Brady...
Did you just make this up?
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Horford is like if Jared Sullinger got the treatment that turned Steve Rogers into Captain America.
This is awesome.
I love Al Horford.
Dude, I don't like to make fun of people's weight, and I'm not doing that here, but I love Marvel, so I totally got the Steve Rogers/Captain America analogy, and I laughed out loud. For reals. TP.
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Hell yes!! Our first big free agent piece has signed!!!
Horford to Boston!
Confirmation Tweet:
https://twitter.com/Al_Horford/status/749381033968099329?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
So this sets us up for Horford + Durant???!!!
Come on down to Boston KD!! Why wait?? Westbrook is leaving next year anyways!
Come help get banner #18!!!
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Some of you are saying that 113m is a lot for Horford and that he wouldn't age well. I say that i rather have Horford overpaid than Parsons or Mozgov. At least we ara overpaing an all star :). Too happy right now, too excited :)
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I'm listening to ESPN radio, and they announced Kevin Durant to Celtics. Maybe they meant Horford?????
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Horford is like if Jared Sullinger got the treatment that turned Steve Rogers into Captain America.
This is awesome.
I love Al Horford.
I really liked him on those Florida teams... love to have him as a Celtic!!!
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Big Al II!
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lol the rage on the washington blog is killin me right now :laugh: :laugh: ;D ;D
Yeah, I just spent a good 5 minutes chuckling at their grief cycle. A mixture of denial, rage, and bargaining going on.
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It's not as much an overpay as the market has shifted.
Classic case of free market economics.
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Shots on me!!!
Just come to a bar by me
Tampa Florida!!!
Let's go celtics!!!!!!!!!
I'm in Tampa where we celebrating?
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I wonder if Tommy will let Horford wear #15?
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I am so excited... :o
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This is good but he's not a max player. $113 mill is steep. Good pick up. It's only worth it if Durant follow suit.
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lol the rage on the washington blog is killin me right now :laugh: :laugh: ;D ;D
Yeah, I just spent a good 5 minutes chuckling at their grief cycle. A mixture of denial, rage, and bargaining going on.
I like the people claiming Scott Brooks is just as good a coach as Brad Stevens. :D
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Gotta admit, I never thought it would get this far with Durant.
Royce Young is a huge OKC homer.
Hed been pretty much scoffing at our chances, but just tweeted this:
"Something seems to have dramatically swung Horford choosing Boston. I'm sure the windows at the OKC practice facility rattled a bit just now"
"OKC went armed into their meeting with Durant with the message of canceling the Hamptons and signing long term so they could chase Horford."
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This is good but he's not a max player. $113 mill is steep. Good pick up. It's only worth it if Durant follow suit.
Under this cap, he's more than worth it
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Someone bring in Gino!
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Thank you to the Bklyn Nets.. :)
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Well done Danny! Well done IT and Crowder! Welcome to Boston Al Horford!
Major victory for the Celtics organization today. Finally shuts up all of the naysayer's out there who say that no one will come here because today's players have no sense of history, culture, or pride. Unreal! ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Even if the team misses out on Durant, Ainge could still get Cousins sometime in the next 12 months and put Horford and Cousins alongside each other up front.
That would be awesome.
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Had to post this one from the Wizards board:
Might as well go after Sully. F***
Hahaha!
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmZcm5tWEAAKE4n.jpg)
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Had to post this one from the Wizards board:
Might as well go after Sully. F***
Hahaha!
Awesome!! TP
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The way it happened has to be encouraging. You cant trust reports with all the smokescreens guys throw out there, but people were seemingly all reporting that Atlanta was in the drivers seat, then the KD meeting ends and boom, the tables completely turn and he signs.
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David Aldridge
League source: Horford to Boston.
Adrian Wojnarowski @WojVerticalNBA
Al Horford plans to sign a four-year, $113M deal with the Boston Celtics, league sources tells @TheVertical.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpNTelmEkrg
I'm just an Irish Boston kid so don't do this to me.
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Just came inside for my periodic check-in and finally got the news Ive been hoping for. Yay!
Now let's have repeat of the summer of 2007 and get another Kevin.
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Gotta admit, I never thought it would get this far with Durant.
Royce Young is a huge OKC homer.
Hed been pretty much scoffing at our chances, but just tweeted this:
"Something seems to have dramatically swung Horford choosing Boston. I'm sure the windows at the OKC practice facility rattled a bit just now"
"OKC went armed into their meeting with Durant with the message of canceling the Hamptons and signing long term so they could chase Horford."
Horford probably remembered the OKC ownership was cheap, in addition to the fact that KD and Westbrook may very well end up leaving.
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Had to post this one from the Wizards board:
Might as well go after Sully. F***
Hahaha!
Classic! What a great night this is turning out to be...Not sure my heart could take anymore but I would gladly accept a tweet that says "Durant cancels meeting with the Heat...Durant seen at Hamptons hotspot with Brady, IT, Horford and Bradley drinking Dom"
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So this is what Celtics management meant about ''fireworks''. I have to say they are arriving right on time! I'm betting at this point that Durant announces he's signing tomorrow, again, right in time for 'fireworks day''.
If this is the case and the team stays healthy then we are again contenders. Throw in a couple of draft day jackpots, a couple more free agent signings in the next year or two, and a couple of minor but good trades and we may be looking at a new Celtics Dynasty!
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I know what I will be eating tomorrow morning:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmZemQ4VMAAQG9z.jpg:large)
(Credit to SBNation)
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So 113M over 4 years is averaged out to $28, 250, 000. But he starts out at 26.4 with annual raises or something, right?
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This is awesome. Even without KD this is huge.
I knew we'd be a player in free agency. This proves it.
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Check out @Sam_Vecenie's Tweet: https://twitter.com/Sam_Vecenie/status/749390632150413312?s=09
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Congrats to Danny and the whole front office.
Congrats Celtic fans.
Horford for Sully, great improvement.
Simultaneously setting us in a better negotiating position with KD, for this and/or next year.
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Even if the team misses out on Durant, Ainge could still get Cousins sometime in the next 12 months and put Horford and Cousins alongside each other up front.
That would be awesome.
I agree, and even beyond that having a well-respected star vet like Horford here helps us next offseason even if KD doesn't work out. This can be the first domino even if the next one doesn't topple for a while.
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Check out @Sam_Vecenie's Tweet: https://twitter.com/Sam_Vecenie/status/749390632150413312?s=09
lol
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If Tom Brady closes the deal for Durant to Boston, I'm going to have to have another kid and name him Brady. That will be awkward for the one I already have named Brady.
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Yeah, the economics of the game have massively changed.
Can't call Horford an overpay based on old contractual standards.
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So 113M over 4 years is averaged out to $28, 250, 000. But he starts out at 26.4 with annual raises or something, right?
sounds right.
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If Tom Brady closes the deal for Durant to Boston, I'm going to have to have another kid and name him Brady. That will be awkward for the one I already have named Brady.
Could just name it Tom. Or it could be a girl. Giselle?
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Worried c's and OKC are negotiating sign and trade and we lose serious assets.
Kidding! Hahahahahaha Yay ayahuasca
Freaking out about my hopes getting too high for the Irish spider..
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So this is what Celtics management meant about ''fireworks''. I have to say they are arriving right on time! I'm betting at this point that Durant announces he's signing tomorrow, again, right in time for 'fireworks day''.
If this is the case and the team stays healthy then we are again contenders. Throw in a couple of draft day jackpots, a couple more free agent signings in the next year or two, and a couple of minor but good trades and we may be looking at a new Celtics Dynasty!
Yes, I totally agree with that. We have the perfect supporting cast for Durant now...Horford, IT and some strong supporting cast like Bradley/Smart/Crowder and their suffocating D. Our other players will all be raised to a higher level as well. Our second unit will become a powerhouse as well. All it would take is Durant to declare his love affair with Boston tomorrow evening...day before the 4th....I might need to get another bottle of red ..one for tonight and one for tomorrow.
The fact we still have all our parts and did not do a knee jerk trade on draft day coupled with those glorious Brooklyn picks over the next 2 years, we could potentially be looking at the dawn of a new era of Celtics championships. If we get Durant, I bet Lebron leaves Cleveland the following year and heads out west.
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If Tom Brady closes the deal for Durant to Boston, I'm going to have to have another kid and name him Brady. That will be awkward for the one I already have named Brady.
Brady is already my favorite athlete of all time. If he gets us KD I will build a Tom Brady shrine and pray to it every [dang] day.
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So this is what Celtics management meant about ''fireworks''. I have to say they are arriving right on time! I'm betting at this point that Durant announces he's signing tomorrow, again, right in time for 'fireworks day''.
If this is the case and the team stays healthy then we are again contenders. Throw in a couple of draft day jackpots, a couple more free agent signings in the next year or two, and a couple of minor but good trades and we may be looking at a new Celtics Dynasty!
Yes, I totally agree with that. We have the perfect supporting cast for Durant now...Horford, IT and some strong supporting cast like Bradley/Smart/Crowder and their suffocating D. Our other players will all be raised to a higher level as well. Our second unit will become a powerhouse as well. All it would take is Durant to declare his love affair with Boston tomorrow evening...day before the 4th....I might need to get another bottle of red ..one for tonight and one for tomorrow.
The fact we still have all our parts and did not do a knee jerk trade on draft day coupled with those glorious Brooklyn picks over the next 2 years, we could potentially be looking at the dawn of a new era of Celtics championships. If we get Durant, I bet Lebron leaves Cleveland the following year and heads out west.
I really hate that stupid phrase "the best trades are the ones you don't make" but [dang]... AL, KD and the little guy is MEAN when you add Avery smart crowder defense.
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I knew there was a reason as to why I have decided to eat a bacon cheeseburger and a strawberry shake tonight.
Its to celebrate this signing that I didn't even knew happened, until now.
Yes!
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This youtube mix of pierce just popped in my head for some reason
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Yv_Cq7rkgg
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So how much did Horford walk away from in ATL? That would be very telling.
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Even if the team misses out on Durant, Ainge could still get Cousins sometime in the next 12 months and put Horford and Cousins alongside each other up front.
That would be awesome.
I agree, and even beyond that having a well-respected star vet like Horford here helps us next offseason even if KD doesn't work out. This can be the first domino even if the next one doesn't topple for a while.
Yeah, go after Blake Griffin in 2017 Free Agency.
Heck, if that falls through, go after Millsap. Reunite them together here in Boston only with our perimeter guys and all our bench depth and young talent.
Signing Horford opens up a lot of possibilities outside Durant to push this team to next level.
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So how much did Horford walk away from in ATL? That would be very telling.
I'm guessing between 25-30 million.
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Even if the team misses out on Durant, Ainge could still get Cousins sometime in the next 12 months and put Horford and Cousins alongside each other up front.
That would be awesome.
I agree, and even beyond that having a well-respected star vet like Horford here helps us next offseason even if KD doesn't work out. This can be the first domino even if the next one doesn't topple for a while.
Yeah, go after Blake Griffin in 2017 Free Agency.
Heck, if that falls through, go after Millsap. Reunite them together here in Boston only with our perimeter guys and all our bench depth and young talent.
Signing Horford opens up a lot of possibilities outside Durant to push this team to next level.
This.
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So how much did Horford walk away from in ATL? That would be very telling.
5/136
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So how much did Horford walk away from in ATL? That would be very telling.
I'm guessing between 25-30 million.
Oh my...
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So how much did Horford walk away from in ATL? That would be very telling.
I'm guessing between 25-30 million.
I recall reading earlier articles describing how important the security of that 5th year ATL could offer was to Horford. If that's true, the C's must've really put together an impressive recruiting session.
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LETS GOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
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This officially means the Celtics roster is better than the Thunder's roster sans Durant. I'm trying really hard to not let myself get too excited about all of this but it's impossible.
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http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2016/7/2/12088912/al-horford-and-the-atlanta-hawks-divorce-and-its-the-kids-fans-that?utm_campaign=jasonwalkersbn&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
The Hawks put a price on Al Horford's tenure in Atlanta. Six million dollars.
Six stupid million dollars stood between a continuation of what's been built here under Danny Ferry/Wes Wilcox/Mike Budenholzer and who knows what.
SIx million dollars in a cap world where Kent Bazemore just cashed in for 4 years and 70 million dollars. No offense, Baze.
It's seems like a piddling thing to let the Boston (freaking) Celtics walk off with your All-Star Center for nothing in return but a series of tweets from The Vertical's Adrian Wojnarowski that ended up being wrong. That's right. Mr. Always on the money missed one and, of course, it involves the Hawks, losing Al Horford and losing him to the Boston Celtics.
I don't know what the franchise was thinking here. I don't know if they weighed what this means to their fan base, to their core of players, to what they are trying to do as a franchise. It reminds me of when the Mavericks got technical and let Steve Nash walk away to win MVPs in Phoenix based on god-knows-what that told them they shouldn't.
Al Horford clearly wanted every last dollar out of Atlanta, not wanting to take another discount to stay, but that's his prerogative. He doesn't owe the Hawks a discount, especially in an economic environment where it didn't really hinder the Hawks to go full max.
I really believed that, in the end, both sides would make it work. But now seeing Horford tweet Celtics Pride makes my stomach turn in a way I haven't felt since this franchise traded Dominique.
In that moment, there was a darkness over the franchise that last, for me, quite a long time into the late 90s, before I finally warmed up again. I could definitely see that happening again for me, and others like me. Sure they still have Paul Millsap and Dwight Howard, but this is different. Al Horford was different.
Al Horford was a steal of a pick at number three overall in the 2007 draft. He patiently waited while Mike Woodson, Joe Johnson and company ignored him offensively. But he ran the floor, made himself relevant with his athleticism and hard work, eventually mastered the mid-range jumpshot and efficient passing and turned it into multiple all-star performances as the Hawks rose up, eventually to 50 wins and the Conference Finals.
He was the Atlanta's Tim Duncan, the mild mannered big man with fundamental skills and the type of personality the team was building around. As Ferry, Wilcox and Budenholzer framed and built the team, it was Horford in the middle of it all, the rock, the foundation. Success has never seen the Atlanta Hawks the way it had with Al Horford as its basketball barometer.
Now the Hawks let six million dollars, money that will long be spent and forgotten over the course of five years, allow that guy to wear Celtics colors and help them take a large step up in the conference while the Hawks lose a rudder and scramble to redefine things.
That's not something that's happened to the Spurs over the course of their dominance of the NBA, the franchise allegedly the Hawks were patterning themselves after. Sadly, copies are never as crisp as the original.
Clearly, they didn't feel the same way about Horford as I did, and other fans did, or this wouldn't have happened. To put that kind of limit on Horford meant they weren't fully sold on him being that guy, that something was missing that prevented them fully going all-out to make sure he didn't go to such a bitter rival. There are others who subscribe to this, that Al simply isn't the guy to get the Hawks to the promised land.
But for me, it's a heartbreak, and one I'm not sure I can recover from soon, as I said. They got nothing for Horford other than the relief of not having to scramble to make a deal. And Paul Millsap is going to demand so much more after this next season, and Dennis Schröder is coming soon, so this is not a conversation that's going away.
The franchise took a major, major step backwards today. I feel it in my stomach-punched soul, and it hurts. Real Bad.
The entitled Boston Celtics get an amazing player, no matter what Tommy Heinsohn said about him in the playoffs (that tune will change very quickly), to go with a terrific young coach and a solid core of athletic players. The Hawks get nothing, and that pretty much defines history of the two franchises, both present and future.
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Just got back from band practice, and i gotta say
HELL YESSSSS!!!
TP to everyone i see
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http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2016/7/2/12088912/al-horford-and-the-atlanta-hawks-divorce-and-its-the-kids-fans-that?utm_campaign=jasonwalkersbn&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
The Hawks put a price on Al Horford's tenure in Atlanta. Six million dollars.
Six stupid million dollars stood between a continuation of what's been built here under Danny Ferry/Wes Wilcox/Mike Budenholzer and who knows what.
SIx million dollars in a cap world where Kent Bazemore just cashed in for 4 years and 70 million dollars. No offense, Baze.
It's seems like a piddling thing to let the Boston (freaking) Celtics walk off with your All-Star Center for nothing in return but a series of tweets from The Vertical's Adrian Wojnarowski that ended up being wrong. That's right. Mr. Always on the money missed one and, of course, it involves the Hawks, losing Al Horford and losing him to the Boston Celtics.
I don't know what the franchise was thinking here. I don't know if they weighed what this means to their fan base, to their core of players, to what they are trying to do as a franchise. It reminds me of when the Mavericks got technical and let Steve Nash walk away to win MVPs in Phoenix based on god-knows-what that told them they shouldn't.
Al Horford clearly wanted every last dollar out of Atlanta, not wanting to take another discount to stay, but that's his prerogative. He doesn't owe the Hawks a discount, especially in an economic environment where it didn't really hinder the Hawks to go full max.
I really believed that, in the end, both sides would make it work. But now seeing Horford tweet Celtics Pride makes my stomach turn in a way I haven't felt since this franchise traded Dominique.
In that moment, there was a darkness over the franchise that last, for me, quite a long time into the late 90s, before I finally warmed up again. I could definitely see that happening again for me, and others like me. Sure they still have Paul Millsap and Dwight Howard, but this is different. Al Horford was different.
Al Horford was a steal of a pick at number three overall in the 2007 draft. He patiently waited while Mike Woodson, Joe Johnson and company ignored him offensively. But he ran the floor, made himself relevant with his athleticism and hard work, eventually mastered the mid-range jumpshot and efficient passing and turned it into multiple all-star performances as the Hawks rose up, eventually to 50 wins and the Conference Finals.
He was the Atlanta's Tim Duncan, the mild mannered big man with fundamental skills and the type of personality the team was building around. As Ferry, Wilcox and Budenholzer framed and built the team, it was Horford in the middle of it all, the rock, the foundation. Success has never seen the Atlanta Hawks the way it had with Al Horford as its basketball barometer.
Now the Hawks let six million dollars, money that will long be spent and forgotten over the course of five years, allow that guy to wear Celtics colors and help them take a large step up in the conference while the Hawks lose a rudder and scramble to redefine things.
That's not something that's happened to the Spurs over the course of their dominance of the NBA, the franchise allegedly the Hawks were patterning themselves after. Sadly, copies are never as crisp as the original.
Clearly, they didn't feel the same way about Horford as I did, and other fans did, or this wouldn't have happened. To put that kind of limit on Horford meant they weren't fully sold on him being that guy, that something was missing that prevented them fully going all-out to make sure he didn't go to such a bitter rival. There are others who subscribe to this, that Al simply isn't the guy to get the Hawks to the promised land.
But for me, it's a heartbreak, and one I'm not sure I can recover from soon, as I said. They got nothing for Horford other than the relief of not having to scramble to make a deal. And Paul Millsap is going to demand so much more after this next season, and Dennis Schröder is coming soon, so this is not a conversation that's going away.
The franchise took a major, major step backwards today. I feel it in my stomach-punched soul, and it hurts. Real Bad.
The entitled Boston Celtics get an amazing player, no matter what Tommy Heinsohn said about him in the playoffs (that tune will change very quickly), to go with a terrific young coach and a solid core of athletic players. The Hawks get nothing, and that pretty much defines history of the two franchises, both present and future.
Great article. It's pretty clear that the Hawks didn't really want to sign Horford, they just wanted their fans to think they tried. Signing Howard and Bazemore and then trading Milsap to keep Horford made no sense.
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Talk about a self destruction in Atlanta.
The cancer Dwight Howard has begun his damage less then 24 hours into his tenure.
Hawks lose arguably their best player to a conference rival, and while doing so burned a bridge with Milsap by trying to trade him in the heat of the moment.
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WEEI reports 4, $133 million. Which one is right?
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WEEI reports 4, $133 million. Which one is right?
$113 is right. $133 is not possible.
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WEEI reports 4, $133 million. Which one is right?
Adrian Wojnarowski of The Vertical By Adrian Wojnarowski of The Vertical
37 minutes ago
Yahoo Sports
In a frantic final few hours, free-agent forward Al Horford reached agreement on a four-year, $113 million maximum contract with the Boston Celtics, league sources told The Vertical.
Most they could have offered for a 9 year vet.
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http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2016/7/2/12088912/al-horford-and-the-atlanta-hawks-divorce-and-its-the-kids-fans-that?utm_campaign=jasonwalkersbn&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
The Hawks put a price on Al Horford's tenure in Atlanta. Six million dollars.
Six stupid million dollars stood between a continuation of what's been built here under Danny Ferry/Wes Wilcox/Mike Budenholzer and who knows what.
SIx million dollars in a cap world where Kent Bazemore just cashed in for 4 years and 70 million dollars. No offense, Baze.
It's seems like a piddling thing to let the Boston (freaking) Celtics walk off with your All-Star Center for nothing in return but a series of tweets from The Vertical's Adrian Wojnarowski that ended up being wrong. That's right. Mr. Always on the money missed one and, of course, it involves the Hawks, losing Al Horford and losing him to the Boston Celtics.
I don't know what the franchise was thinking here. I don't know if they weighed what this means to their fan base, to their core of players, to what they are trying to do as a franchise. It reminds me of when the Mavericks got technical and let Steve Nash walk away to win MVPs in Phoenix based on god-knows-what that told them they shouldn't.
Al Horford clearly wanted every last dollar out of Atlanta, not wanting to take another discount to stay, but that's his prerogative. He doesn't owe the Hawks a discount, especially in an economic environment where it didn't really hinder the Hawks to go full max.
I really believed that, in the end, both sides would make it work. But now seeing Horford tweet Celtics Pride makes my stomach turn in a way I haven't felt since this franchise traded Dominique.
In that moment, there was a darkness over the franchise that last, for me, quite a long time into the late 90s, before I finally warmed up again. I could definitely see that happening again for me, and others like me. Sure they still have Paul Millsap and Dwight Howard, but this is different. Al Horford was different.
Al Horford was a steal of a pick at number three overall in the 2007 draft. He patiently waited while Mike Woodson, Joe Johnson and company ignored him offensively. But he ran the floor, made himself relevant with his athleticism and hard work, eventually mastered the mid-range jumpshot and efficient passing and turned it into multiple all-star performances as the Hawks rose up, eventually to 50 wins and the Conference Finals.
He was the Atlanta's Tim Duncan, the mild mannered big man with fundamental skills and the type of personality the team was building around. As Ferry, Wilcox and Budenholzer framed and built the team, it was Horford in the middle of it all, the rock, the foundation. Success has never seen the Atlanta Hawks the way it had with Al Horford as its basketball barometer.
Now the Hawks let six million dollars, money that will long be spent and forgotten over the course of five years, allow that guy to wear Celtics colors and help them take a large step up in the conference while the Hawks lose a rudder and scramble to redefine things.
That's not something that's happened to the Spurs over the course of their dominance of the NBA, the franchise allegedly the Hawks were patterning themselves after. Sadly, copies are never as crisp as the original.
Clearly, they didn't feel the same way about Horford as I did, and other fans did, or this wouldn't have happened. To put that kind of limit on Horford meant they weren't fully sold on him being that guy, that something was missing that prevented them fully going all-out to make sure he didn't go to such a bitter rival. There are others who subscribe to this, that Al simply isn't the guy to get the Hawks to the promised land.
But for me, it's a heartbreak, and one I'm not sure I can recover from soon, as I said. They got nothing for Horford other than the relief of not having to scramble to make a deal. And Paul Millsap is going to demand so much more after this next season, and Dennis Schröder is coming soon, so this is not a conversation that's going away.
The franchise took a major, major step backwards today. I feel it in my stomach-punched soul, and it hurts. Real Bad.
The entitled Boston Celtics get an amazing player, no matter what Tommy Heinsohn said about him in the playoffs (that tune will change very quickly), to go with a terrific young coach and a solid core of athletic players. The Hawks get nothing, and that pretty much defines history of the two franchises, both present and future.
Great article. It's pretty clear that the Hawks didn't really want to sign Horford, they just wanted their fans to think they tried. Signing Howard and Bazemore and then trading Milsap to keep Horford made no sense.
The "entitled Boston Celtics"? I don't get that phrase.
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Horford tweeted 18 shamrocks. Gives me the chills
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The "entitled Boston Celtics"? I don't get that phrase.
I'm sure this was meant to imply they have many titles. Wouldn't be the first person with Interned and a keyboard that doesn't know English :P
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Woj was wrong on this tonight. Nobody is really talking about that
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Horford tweeted 18 shamrocks. Gives me the chills
Horford is a smart man, he knows just him isn't enough to get it done over the Cavs or GSW....He knows something......Son of a.....
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Such ****ing good new folks!! I will celebrate.
This means over 50 wins next year and the Celtics can and will challenge Cleveland in the ECF.
I am happy! ;D
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'entitled Celtics' is a pejorative...... Boston Celtics are seen by some as NBA Royalty. They are envious of that.
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Woj was wrong on this tonight. Nobody is really talking about that
Once the dust settles I'm sure people will. Everyone is to dang excited!
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Woj was wrong on this tonight. Nobody is really talking about that
Yes, the infallible Woj dropped a few duds tonight.
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Woj was wrong on this tonight. Nobody is really talking about that
Eh, he said the Celtics and Wizards were giving up hope. That's probably a fair characterization since the Hawks controlled their own destiny once Horford gave them the last shot. It was out of our hands at that point, but Horford passed on the extra $ when they didn't meet his figure.
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Adam Himmelsbach @AdamHimmelsbach 1m1 minute ago
Al Horford did meet his wife (former Miss Universe) at the Latin Pride Awards in Boston almost 10 years ago.
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Woj was wrong on this tonight. Nobody is really talking about that
Yes, the infallible Woj dropped a few duds tonight.
Its all part of the misdirection play. I bet Danny had these deals all sealed up before the draft. That is why he did not panic and the draft, and drafted accordingly.
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I am still not sure whether I even want Horford on that contract. At least he will improve the team considerably in the short term. I worry about the back end of that contract though. I do not think Horford will age well. As his athleticism continues to decline, I think his lack of size as a center will become tougher and tougher for him to overcome.
Horford's game isn't based on athleticism. He's more of a fundamentals player. He should age relatively well.
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Horford tweeted 18 shamrocks. Gives me the chills
one more time.
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http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2016/7/2/12088912/al-horford-and-the-atlanta-hawks-divorce-and-its-the-kids-fans-that?utm_campaign=jasonwalkersbn&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
The Hawks put a price on Al Horford's tenure in Atlanta. Six million dollars.
Six stupid million dollars stood between a continuation of what's been built here under Danny Ferry/Wes Wilcox/Mike Budenholzer and who knows what.
SIx million dollars in a cap world where Kent Bazemore just cashed in for 4 years and 70 million dollars. No offense, Baze.
It's seems like a piddling thing to let the Boston (freaking) Celtics walk off with your All-Star Center for nothing in return but a series of tweets from The Vertical's Adrian Wojnarowski that ended up being wrong. That's right. Mr. Always on the money missed one and, of course, it involves the Hawks, losing Al Horford and losing him to the Boston Celtics.
I don't know what the franchise was thinking here. I don't know if they weighed what this means to their fan base, to their core of players, to what they are trying to do as a franchise. It reminds me of when the Mavericks got technical and let Steve Nash walk away to win MVPs in Phoenix based on god-knows-what that told them they shouldn't.
Al Horford clearly wanted every last dollar out of Atlanta, not wanting to take another discount to stay, but that's his prerogative. He doesn't owe the Hawks a discount, especially in an economic environment where it didn't really hinder the Hawks to go full max.
I really believed that, in the end, both sides would make it work. But now seeing Horford tweet Celtics Pride makes my stomach turn in a way I haven't felt since this franchise traded Dominique.
In that moment, there was a darkness over the franchise that last, for me, quite a long time into the late 90s, before I finally warmed up again. I could definitely see that happening again for me, and others like me. Sure they still have Paul Millsap and Dwight Howard, but this is different. Al Horford was different.
Al Horford was a steal of a pick at number three overall in the 2007 draft. He patiently waited while Mike Woodson, Joe Johnson and company ignored him offensively. But he ran the floor, made himself relevant with his athleticism and hard work, eventually mastered the mid-range jumpshot and efficient passing and turned it into multiple all-star performances as the Hawks rose up, eventually to 50 wins and the Conference Finals.
He was the Atlanta's Tim Duncan, the mild mannered big man with fundamental skills and the type of personality the team was building around. As Ferry, Wilcox and Budenholzer framed and built the team, it was Horford in the middle of it all, the rock, the foundation. Success has never seen the Atlanta Hawks the way it had with Al Horford as its basketball barometer.
Now the Hawks let six million dollars, money that will long be spent and forgotten over the course of five years, allow that guy to wear Celtics colors and help them take a large step up in the conference while the Hawks lose a rudder and scramble to redefine things.
That's not something that's happened to the Spurs over the course of their dominance of the NBA, the franchise allegedly the Hawks were patterning themselves after. Sadly, copies are never as crisp as the original.
Clearly, they didn't feel the same way about Horford as I did, and other fans did, or this wouldn't have happened. To put that kind of limit on Horford meant they weren't fully sold on him being that guy, that something was missing that prevented them fully going all-out to make sure he didn't go to such a bitter rival. There are others who subscribe to this, that Al simply isn't the guy to get the Hawks to the promised land.
But for me, it's a heartbreak, and one I'm not sure I can recover from soon, as I said. They got nothing for Horford other than the relief of not having to scramble to make a deal. And Paul Millsap is going to demand so much more after this next season, and Dennis Schröder is coming soon, so this is not a conversation that's going away.
The franchise took a major, major step backwards today. I feel it in my stomach-punched soul, and it hurts. Real Bad.
The entitled Boston Celtics get an amazing player, no matter what Tommy Heinsohn said about him in the playoffs (that tune will change very quickly), to go with a terrific young coach and a solid core of athletic players. The Hawks get nothing, and that pretty much defines history of the two franchises, both present and future.
Great article. It's pretty clear that the Hawks didn't really want to sign Horford, they just wanted their fans to think they tried. Signing Howard and Bazemore and then trading Milsap to keep Horford made no sense.
To be fair to the Hawks, a front-court of Millsap and Horford probably makes a lot more sense then Millsap + Horford.
The Hawks have been stuck in no man's land for a LONG time, always being that 'good but not great' team who did as well as they could without a superstar, but never got far enough.
Re-signing Horford would have left them with the same team moving forward, and would have all but guaranteed that they would have move forward with more of the same, with greatness continuing to fall from their grasp.
By adding Howard the Hawks have added a legit superstar for the first time since Dominique, and with the way Howard was misused in Houston, the Hawks can at least HOPE that he flourishes under their system with the extra touches, and starts to look like the Dwight of old - something I think is reasonably likely to occur.
For Boston I still would have preferred Dwight, but I'm happy to accept Horford as a consolation prize. Our frontcourt scenario was a major cause for concern this year, and Horford helps immensely. For all his limitations (and he has his share of them) Horford is still, by far, the best big man to wear Celtics green since the departure of Kevin Garnett.
More importantly he's a guy who isn't obsessed with being your #1 guy or having all the spotlight on him - he seems the type who is quite happy to step back into the shadows and take whatever role he's given. That's going to be very important for us moving forward, because as long as Thomas is here Horford will be a #2 at best, and if we do get Durant that could push him back to a #3 option. In that role he might prove a wiser piece then Dwight. I think Dwight would be fine playing #2 to Durant, but I'm not sure he'd be happy to play #3 behind both Durant AND Thomas. In the long term that may have caused problems.
Four months ago, I was strongly against signing Al Horford to a max deal. One Month ago, I was still very uncomfortable with that idea. After seeing Mike Conley sign for < $30m, Chandler Parsons sign for ~$23m, and seeing Mahinmi/Mozgov/Turner all sign for $17m-$18m...I must admit that the idea of giving close to $30M for Horford no longer sounds nearly as terrible. I'm not going to say it's a bargain, but under these circumstances it's certainly justifiable.
Boston now has:
1) Al Horford under contract for ~$27m
2) Thomas, Bradley and Crowder all around 25 years of age, and all under contract for ~22m combined
3) A ton of young prospects with potential (Brown, Jackson, Rozier, Smart, Mickey, Bentil, Yabusele, Antic)
4) A crap-ton of cap space
5) Jaylen Brown
6) Two future Nets picks with top 5 potential
Is there any team in the NBA who is in a better position then us moving forward, honestly???
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people think the wiz are more talented but it takes more than that, PP said only months ago that they weren't ready to win, can't remember the exact quote but it was about Wall and Beal iirc.
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Hell YESSSS!!!!
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http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2016/7/2/12088912/al-horford-and-the-atlanta-hawks-divorce-and-its-the-kids-fans-that?utm_campaign=jasonwalkersbn&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
The Hawks put a price on Al Horford's tenure in Atlanta. Six million dollars.
Six stupid million dollars stood between a continuation of what's been built here under Danny Ferry/Wes Wilcox/Mike Budenholzer and who knows what.
SIx million dollars in a cap world where Kent Bazemore just cashed in for 4 years and 70 million dollars. No offense, Baze.
It's seems like a piddling thing to let the Boston (freaking) Celtics walk off with your All-Star Center for nothing in return but a series of tweets from The Vertical's Adrian Wojnarowski that ended up being wrong. That's right. Mr. Always on the money missed one and, of course, it involves the Hawks, losing Al Horford and losing him to the Boston Celtics.
I don't know what the franchise was thinking here. I don't know if they weighed what this means to their fan base, to their core of players, to what they are trying to do as a franchise. It reminds me of when the Mavericks got technical and let Steve Nash walk away to win MVPs in Phoenix based on god-knows-what that told them they shouldn't.
Al Horford clearly wanted every last dollar out of Atlanta, not wanting to take another discount to stay, but that's his prerogative. He doesn't owe the Hawks a discount, especially in an economic environment where it didn't really hinder the Hawks to go full max.
I really believed that, in the end, both sides would make it work. But now seeing Horford tweet Celtics Pride makes my stomach turn in a way I haven't felt since this franchise traded Dominique.
In that moment, there was a darkness over the franchise that last, for me, quite a long time into the late 90s, before I finally warmed up again. I could definitely see that happening again for me, and others like me. Sure they still have Paul Millsap and Dwight Howard, but this is different. Al Horford was different.
Al Horford was a steal of a pick at number three overall in the 2007 draft. He patiently waited while Mike Woodson, Joe Johnson and company ignored him offensively. But he ran the floor, made himself relevant with his athleticism and hard work, eventually mastered the mid-range jumpshot and efficient passing and turned it into multiple all-star performances as the Hawks rose up, eventually to 50 wins and the Conference Finals.
He was the Atlanta's Tim Duncan, the mild mannered big man with fundamental skills and the type of personality the team was building around. As Ferry, Wilcox and Budenholzer framed and built the team, it was Horford in the middle of it all, the rock, the foundation. Success has never seen the Atlanta Hawks the way it had with Al Horford as its basketball barometer.
Now the Hawks let six million dollars, money that will long be spent and forgotten over the course of five years, allow that guy to wear Celtics colors and help them take a large step up in the conference while the Hawks lose a rudder and scramble to redefine things.
That's not something that's happened to the Spurs over the course of their dominance of the NBA, the franchise allegedly the Hawks were patterning themselves after. Sadly, copies are never as crisp as the original.
Clearly, they didn't feel the same way about Horford as I did, and other fans did, or this wouldn't have happened. To put that kind of limit on Horford meant they weren't fully sold on him being that guy, that something was missing that prevented them fully going all-out to make sure he didn't go to such a bitter rival. There are others who subscribe to this, that Al simply isn't the guy to get the Hawks to the promised land.
But for me, it's a heartbreak, and one I'm not sure I can recover from soon, as I said. They got nothing for Horford other than the relief of not having to scramble to make a deal. And Paul Millsap is going to demand so much more after this next season, and Dennis Schröder is coming soon, so this is not a conversation that's going away.
The franchise took a major, major step backwards today. I feel it in my stomach-punched soul, and it hurts. Real Bad.
The entitled Boston Celtics get an amazing player, no matter what Tommy Heinsohn said about him in the playoffs (that tune will change very quickly), to go with a terrific young coach and a solid core of athletic players. The Hawks get nothing, and that pretty much defines history of the two franchises, both present and future.
Great article. It's pretty clear that the Hawks didn't really want to sign Horford, they just wanted their fans to think they tried. Signing Howard and Bazemore and then trading Milsap to keep Horford made no sense.
The "entitled Boston Celtics"? I don't get that phrase.
Celtics fans are very, very spoiled. See: all the whining and thrashing and comments like "this offseason will be a failure if we don't get Durant and Horford" earlier today when it looked like we might come up empty. Most teams come up empty every single year and live with it. Celtics fans don't. I love that Cs fans want more, but it's understandable that a franchise such as ATL, whose greatest accomplishment in decades is an ECF appearance, would perceive the Cs and its fanbase as an entitled pair. Most fans view the Cs as the league's cream of the crop -- right there with LAL, Chicago, SAS, NYK, etc. It's only Celtics fans that irrationally convince themselves that we're a league-wide underdog and that no one wants us to win.
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I think this can be considered getting over the hump.
Not that he's some big time scorer, but he fits the C's style so well, plus... we signed a notable FREE AGENT.
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http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2016/7/2/12088912/al-horford-and-the-atlanta-hawks-divorce-and-its-the-kids-fans-that?utm_campaign=jasonwalkersbn&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
The Hawks put a price on Al Horford's tenure in Atlanta. Six million dollars.
Six stupid million dollars stood between a continuation of what's been built here under Danny Ferry/Wes Wilcox/Mike Budenholzer and who knows what.
SIx million dollars in a cap world where Kent Bazemore just cashed in for 4 years and 70 million dollars. No offense, Baze.
It's seems like a piddling thing to let the Boston (freaking) Celtics walk off with your All-Star Center for nothing in return but a series of tweets from The Vertical's Adrian Wojnarowski that ended up being wrong. That's right. Mr. Always on the money missed one and, of course, it involves the Hawks, losing Al Horford and losing him to the Boston Celtics.
I don't know what the franchise was thinking here. I don't know if they weighed what this means to their fan base, to their core of players, to what they are trying to do as a franchise. It reminds me of when the Mavericks got technical and let Steve Nash walk away to win MVPs in Phoenix based on god-knows-what that told them they shouldn't.
Al Horford clearly wanted every last dollar out of Atlanta, not wanting to take another discount to stay, but that's his prerogative. He doesn't owe the Hawks a discount, especially in an economic environment where it didn't really hinder the Hawks to go full max.
I really believed that, in the end, both sides would make it work. But now seeing Horford tweet Celtics Pride makes my stomach turn in a way I haven't felt since this franchise traded Dominique.
In that moment, there was a darkness over the franchise that last, for me, quite a long time into the late 90s, before I finally warmed up again. I could definitely see that happening again for me, and others like me. Sure they still have Paul Millsap and Dwight Howard, but this is different. Al Horford was different.
Al Horford was a steal of a pick at number three overall in the 2007 draft. He patiently waited while Mike Woodson, Joe Johnson and company ignored him offensively. But he ran the floor, made himself relevant with his athleticism and hard work, eventually mastered the mid-range jumpshot and efficient passing and turned it into multiple all-star performances as the Hawks rose up, eventually to 50 wins and the Conference Finals.
He was the Atlanta's Tim Duncan, the mild mannered big man with fundamental skills and the type of personality the team was building around. As Ferry, Wilcox and Budenholzer framed and built the team, it was Horford in the middle of it all, the rock, the foundation. Success has never seen the Atlanta Hawks the way it had with Al Horford as its basketball barometer.
Now the Hawks let six million dollars, money that will long be spent and forgotten over the course of five years, allow that guy to wear Celtics colors and help them take a large step up in the conference while the Hawks lose a rudder and scramble to redefine things.
That's not something that's happened to the Spurs over the course of their dominance of the NBA, the franchise allegedly the Hawks were patterning themselves after. Sadly, copies are never as crisp as the original.
Clearly, they didn't feel the same way about Horford as I did, and other fans did, or this wouldn't have happened. To put that kind of limit on Horford meant they weren't fully sold on him being that guy, that something was missing that prevented them fully going all-out to make sure he didn't go to such a bitter rival. There are others who subscribe to this, that Al simply isn't the guy to get the Hawks to the promised land.
But for me, it's a heartbreak, and one I'm not sure I can recover from soon, as I said. They got nothing for Horford other than the relief of not having to scramble to make a deal. And Paul Millsap is going to demand so much more after this next season, and Dennis Schröder is coming soon, so this is not a conversation that's going away.
The franchise took a major, major step backwards today. I feel it in my stomach-punched soul, and it hurts. Real Bad.
The entitled Boston Celtics get an amazing player, no matter what Tommy Heinsohn said about him in the playoffs (that tune will change very quickly), to go with a terrific young coach and a solid core of athletic players. The Hawks get nothing, and that pretty much defines history of the two franchises, both present and future.
Great article. It's pretty clear that the Hawks didn't really want to sign Horford, they just wanted their fans to think they tried. Signing Howard and Bazemore and then trading Milsap to keep Horford made no sense.
To be fair to the Hawks, a front-court of Millsap and Horford probably makes a lot more sense then Millsap + Horford.
The Hawks have been stuck in no man's land for a LONG time, always being that 'good but not great' team who did as well as they could without a superstar, but never got far enough.
Re-signing Horford would have left them with the same team moving forward, and would have all but guaranteed that they would have move forward with more of the same, with greatness continuing to fall from their grasp.
By adding Howard the Hawks have added a legit superstar for the first time since Dominique, and with the way Howard was misused in Houston, the Hawks can at least HOPE that he flourishes under their system with the extra touches, and starts to look like the Dwight of old - something I think is reasonably likely to occur.
For Boston I still would have preferred Dwight, but I'm happy to accept Horford as a consolation prize. Our frontcourt scenario was a major cause for concern this year, and Horford helps immensely. For all his limitations (and he has his share of them) Horford is still, by far, the best big man to wear Celtics green since the departure of Kevin Garnett.
More importantly he's a guy who isn't obsessed with being your #1 guy or having all the spotlight on him - he seems the type who is quite happy to step back into the shadows and take whatever role he's given. That's going to be very important for us moving forward, because as long as Thomas is here Horford will be a #2 at best, and if we do get Durant that could push him back to a #3 option. In that role he might prove a wiser piece then Dwight. I think Dwight would be fine playing #2 to Durant, but I'm not sure he'd be happy to play #3 behind both Durant AND Thomas. In the long term that may have caused problems.
Four months ago, I was strongly against signing Al Horford to a max deal. One Month ago, I was still very uncomfortable with that idea. After seeing Mike Conley sign for < $30m, Chandler Parsons sign for ~$23m, and seeing Mahinmi/Mozgov/Turner all sign for $17m-$18m...I must admit that the idea of giving close to $30M for Horford no longer sounds nearly as terrible. I'm not going to say it's a bargain, but under these circumstances it's certainly justifiable.
Boston now has:
1) Al Horford under contract for ~$27m
2) Thomas, Bradley and Crowder all around 25 years of age, and all under contract for ~22m combined
3) A ton of young prospects with potential (Brown, Jackson, Rozier, Smart, Mickey, Bentil, Yabusele, Antic)
4) A crap-ton of cap space
5) Jaylen Brown
6) Two future Nets picks with top 5 potential
Is there any team in the NBA who is in a better position then us moving forward, honestly???
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I think Horford is a much better player than Howard. I feel only pity for Hawks fans. Although it is hard to feel that as I am legitimately gleeful. Love Horford's character. Love his game. He was the second best free agent on the market period. Howard was far below Horford.
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Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy!
https://youtu.be/eVM1nUmDHHc
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How p---ed are the Hawk fans right about now. Lets just see. Here is the link to the article on the Hawks site. Read comments below post.
http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2016/7/2/12088912/al-horford-and-the-atlanta-hawks-divorce-and-its-the-kids-fans-that
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So how much did Horford walk away from in ATL? That would be very telling.
I'm guessing between 25-30 million.
That is misleading. On its face maybe he lost 25-30 mil, but in reality if he plays that 5th year somewhere he will get paid for it. He doesn't have to work in the NBA for free. So he could actually make more money if the salary cap keeps going up.
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I must be the only one who is not all that excited about signing an injury-prone, aging star player with declining skills who tends to be a non-factor in big games to a 4-year max contract?
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I must be the only one who is not all that excited about signing an injury-prone, aging star player with declining skills who tends to be a non-factor in big games to a 4-year max contract?
you must be....
Injury prone? Has missed 6 games the last 2 years and played in all 82 games last season.
Declining? Mad the all-star team the last 2 seasons.
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I must be the only one who is not all that excited about signing an injury-prone, aging star player with declining skills who tends to be a non-factor in big games to a 4-year max contract?
i still think it is better to overpay all star than to overpay Parsons, Mozgov...
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http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2016/7/2/12088912/al-horford-and-the-atlanta-hawks-divorce-and-its-the-kids-fans-that?utm_campaign=jasonwalkersbn&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
The Hawks put a price on Al Horford's tenure in Atlanta. Six million dollars.
Wow, that is painful for Atlanta.
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I must be the only one who is not all that excited about signing an injury-prone, aging star player with declining skills who tends to be a non-factor in big games to a 4-year max contract?
i still think it is better to overpay all star than to overpay Parsons, Mozgov...
Most definitely. And yet, we might be having different discussions here in the middle of year 2 of Horford's contract.
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Adrian Wojnarowski @WojVerticalNBA
Sources: Kevin Durant had been recruiting Horford to OKC, but Horford eliminated OKC with no assurance Durant/Westbrook staying long-term.
ok some of this is getting more interesting now...that and the news that KD was on the plane with Brady...
Did you just make this up?
It sounds made up but it's been reported https://twitter.com/ByJayKing/status/749385608955465728?s=07 (https://twitter.com/ByJayKing/status/749385608955465728?s=07)
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I am still not sure whether I even want Horford on that contract. At least he will improve the team considerably in the short term. I worry about the back end of that contract though. I do not think Horford will age well. As his athleticism continues to decline, I think his lack of size as a center will become tougher and tougher for him to overcome.
Horford's game isn't based on athleticism. He's more of a fundamentals player. He should age relatively well.
His offense isn't based on athleticism. That will age well.
His defense & rebounding is based on athleticism. It is what allows him to overcome his size disadvantage as a 6-9 center. This is the area of concern.
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i think horford will actually perform better without Millsap. It's possible his skills may be better utilized in Boston.
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Adrian Wojnarowski @WojVerticalNBA
Sources: Kevin Durant had been recruiting Horford to OKC, but Horford eliminated OKC with no assurance Durant/Westbrook staying long-term.
ok some of this is getting more interesting now...that and the news that KD was on the plane with Brady...
Did you just make this up?
It sounds made up but it's been reported https://twitter.com/ByJayKing/status/749385608955465728?s=07 (https://twitter.com/ByJayKing/status/749385608955465728?s=07)
I trust my deli guy before I trust NYDN news.
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I must be the only one who is not all that excited about signing an injury-prone, aging star player with declining skills who tends to be a non-factor in big games to a 4-year max contract?
i still think it is better to overpay all star than to overpay Parsons, Mozgov...
Most definitely. And yet, we might be having different discussions here in the middle of year 2 of Horford's contract.
This team is in position to take that 4 year risk on Horford because of all the young talent here plus the Nets high picks in the next 2 years
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I must be the only one who is not all that excited about signing an injury-prone, aging star player with declining skills who tends to be a non-factor in big games to a 4-year max contract?
i still think it is better to overpay all star than to overpay Parsons, Mozgov...
Most definitely. And yet, we might be having different discussions here in the middle of year 2 of Horford's contract.
Why, though? His game will age well because he's not athletically reliant. I see him a lot like Bosh who is 2 years older and was playing at an all-star level before the illness sidelined him.
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I am still not sure whether I even want Horford on that contract. At least he will improve the team considerably in the short term. I worry about the back end of that contract though. I do not think Horford will age well. As his athleticism continues to decline, I think his lack of size as a center will become tougher and tougher for him to overcome.
Bradley Beal for 5 and $135
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This could be another attraction for KD to sign.
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I must be the only one who is not all that excited about signing an injury-prone, aging star player with declining skills who tends to be a non-factor in big games to a 4-year max contract?
No, you are not. The risks of the contract are quite clear. He may be hurt for half of it and he may simply decline in performance.
Having said that...all of the "risk" is tied up in Wyc's money and cap space. As we have learned and it should be clear by now: cap space is meaningless if you cannot use it.
This was not a trade for Al Horford, giving up Smart, Olynyk and a future 1st. WE KEEP ALL OF THOSE GUYS. The players we likely see go (assuming now KD) were also likely to go regardless (Turner, Evan).
This was a 'no-brainer,' as Zach Lowe said on twitter.
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I must be the only one who is not all that excited about signing an injury-prone, aging star player with declining skills who tends to be a non-factor in big games to a 4-year max contract?
i still think it is better to overpay all star than to overpay Parsons, Mozgov...
Most definitely. And yet, we might be having different discussions here in the middle of year 2 of Horford's contract.
You have to take the opportunities when they are there. What is the talk in Atlanta going to be next season when they could have had Howard and Horford for an extra six million dollars?
Mike
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Fantastic news - Boston is finally seen as a viable FA destination and we didn't give up anything except some cap space to be a true #2 in the East next year...could get even better with Durant or a big trade. No matter what, this is a giant step in the right direction. Thank you IT!
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I must be the only one who is not all that excited about signing an injury-prone, aging star player with declining skills who tends to be a non-factor in big games to a 4-year max contract?
No, you are not. The risks of the contract are quite clear. He may be hurt for half of it and he may simply decline in performance.
Having said that...all of the "risk" is tied up in Wyc's money and cap space. As we have learned and it should be clear by now: cap space is meaningless if you cannot use it.
This was not a trade for Al Horford, giving up Smart, Olynyk and a future 1st. WE KEEP ALL OF THOSE GUYS. The players we likely see go (assuming now KD) were also likely to go regardless (Turner, Evan).
This was a 'no-brainer,' as Zach Lowe said on twitter.
Good analysis. He's definitely worth the risk, because otherwise it would just be another year of us not utilizing cap space in any meaningful way.
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This could be another attraction for KD to sign.
Lol. TP!
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David Aldridge
League source: Horford to Boston.
Adrian Wojnarowski @WojVerticalNBA
Al Horford plans to sign a four-year, $113M deal with the Boston Celtics, league sources tells @TheVertical.
Happy days are here again....
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I must be the only one who is not all that excited about signing an injury-prone, aging star player with declining skills who tends to be a non-factor in big games to a 4-year max contract?
No, you are not. The risks of the contract are quite clear. He may be hurt for half of it and he may simply decline in performance.
Having said that...all of the "risk" is tied up in Wyc's money and cap space. As we have learned and it should be clear by now: cap space is meaningless if you cannot use it.
This was not a trade for Al Horford, giving up Smart, Olynyk and a future 1st. WE KEEP ALL OF THOSE GUYS. The players we likely see go (assuming now KD) were also likely to go regardless (Turner, Evan).
This was a 'no-brainer,' as Zach Lowe said on twitter.
Good analysis. He's definitely worth the risk, because otherwise it would just be another year of us not utilizing cap space in any meaningful way.
I would have rather spent $70-ish million on Howard for 3 years, but that's just me, and there's no telling whether he wanted to come. I like Horford, but feel that even if our roster stays the way it is, he might be the third best player on the Celtics next season.
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I must be the only one who is not all that excited about signing an injury-prone, aging star player with declining skills who tends to be a non-factor in big games to a 4-year max contract?
i still think it is better to overpay all star than to overpay Parsons, Mozgov...
.
Most definitely. And yet, we might be having different discussions here in the middle of year 2 of Horford's contract.
You have to take the opportunities when they are there. What is the talk in Atlanta going to be next season when they could have had Howard and Horford for an extra six million dollars?
Mike
They might have had Horford without Howard. I heard Horford was not enamored with that sign. They may have screwed themselves.
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I really thought we were going to lose out on the Horford sweepstakes with all the ATL talk recently, and this would then doom our chances for KD. It has never felt so good to be wrong!!!
Welcome to Boston, Al!!
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Even if Durant goes back to OKC, this deal is huge. If Horford stays healthy and the Cs win 50+ games and challenge Cleveland, Durant will know it is real. He can come here in 2017.
With our top 3 draft pick.
For the second year in a row.
With another one on the way.
:)
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Now that I've had a little while to process this....
So this if the end of Jared Sullinger, right?
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Had to post this one from the Wizards board:
Might as well go after Sully. F***
Hahaha!
Sully can be signed TONIGhT !
At he local Pizza Hut
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I am still not sure whether I even want Horford on that contract. At least he will improve the team considerably in the short term. I worry about the back end of that contract though. I do not think Horford will age well. As his athleticism continues to decline, I think his lack of size as a center will become tougher and tougher for him to overcome.
Horford's game isn't based on athleticism. He's more of a fundamentals player. He should age relatively well.
I honestly have concerns about Horford's game ageing as well to be honest...
There is a massive misconception that athletic players age faster, and fundamental players age slower. I have no idea where in god's name people get this from because it's a major farce.
Don't get me wrong, I think there is some truth to that when it comes to smaller guys like point guards and (to a degree) shooting guards. But even then it's not always true - just look at how long Vince Carter, Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant managed to stick around - all three was massively dependent on their athleticism early in their careers...but over time as they lost athleticism, they were able to remain effective by BECOMING smarter and more fundamentally sound. Jordan for example has openly admitted that early in his career he largely depended on athleticism, but later in his career he became much smarter and depended a lot more on smarts and experience.
When it comes to bigs I think it's even less a thing. Kevin Garnett is a perfect example of a guy who was incredibly dependant on athleticism early in his career, but managed to remain a big impact player until the age of around 37.
On the other hand if you look at guys like Carlos Boozer, David West, Elton Brand - all big men who lack athleticism, and who relied on fundamentals and skills to get by...but struggled with age.
* Boozer was once a 20 / 11 guy, now at age 33 he's averaging 11 and 6 for the lowly Lakers
* David West was once a 20/9 guy, now at age 35 he's putting up 7 and 4 in 18 minutes for the spurs - the man clearly has one foot in the retirement pool
* Brand was a 20/10 guy for years, and at the age of 33 he was averaging 7 and 6
By comparison:
- Kevin Garnett was still averaging 15 / 8 / 3 at age 35
* David Robinson was averaging 14 / 8 at age 35
* Vince carter was still averaging 14 PPG at age 34
* Marcus Camby was still averaging 11 rebounds and 2 blocks a game at age 35
* Dominique Wilkins was averaging 25 PPG a the age of 34
* Clyde Drexler averaged 18 PPG at the age of 35
* Kobe at 34 was averaging 25 PPG
* Jordan 34 was averaging 28 PPG
All guys who were highly dependant on their athleticism for their success, yet still managed to remain very productive late in their careers.
Al Horford's lack of outright size concerns me a little bit, because as he starts to get older I can see his defence fading of hard. I feel like it already has dropped off a noticable degree. His post game has also mostly disappeared, and I don't see it coming back. His rebounding his dropped off as well - and I see that continuing. Offensively I think he'll be able to remain effective because he's a good passer and can shoot the ball, and those skills age well.
Overall I think he's a very similar player to David West, and I can see him taking a very similar career path. West was playing really strong up until the age of 32 (when he was averaging 17 / 7).
After that he dropped off rapidly to:
* 14 / 6 at age 33
* 11 and 6 at age 34
* 7 and 4 at age 35
Horford was putting up 18/8 at age 27, and that's already dropped to 15/7 over the past two seasons (age 28 and 29). We have him under contract for BIG money over the next four seasons, from the age of 30 - 33. I'm confident he can continue to play at a high level at the age of 30, 31 and hopefully 32. The four year of that deal is a question mark - we may well be paying $28M for a 10/5 guy by the time year four comes along.
I'm hoping he can produce at a similar level until he hits 34, which will mean he remains effective over the course of this contract - if so we've lucked out. Certainly no assurances to that though...so we just have to pray that Danny can pull off another big deal to add another key player to the mix, so we can get at least a handful of finals runs before Horford's deal runs out.
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I must be the only one who is not all that excited about signing an injury-prone, aging star player with declining skills who tends to be a non-factor in big games to a 4-year max contract?
No, you are not. The risks of the contract are quite clear. He may be hurt for half of it and he may simply decline in performance.
Having said that...all of the "risk" is tied up in Wyc's money and cap space. As we have learned and it should be clear by now: cap space is meaningless if you cannot use it.
This was not a trade for Al Horford, giving up Smart, Olynyk and a future 1st. WE KEEP ALL OF THOSE GUYS. The players we likely see go (assuming now KD) were also likely to go regardless (Turner, Evan).
This was a 'no-brainer,' as Zach Lowe said on twitter.
Good analysis. He's definitely worth the risk, because otherwise it would just be another year of us not utilizing cap space in any meaningful way.
I would have rather spent $70-ish million on Howard for 3 years, but that's just me, and there's no telling whether he wanted to come. I like Horford, but feel that even if our roster stays the way it is, he might be the third best player on the Celtics next season.
That's understandable. I wouldn't have minded Howard at that rate over Horford. But, to me, either of them is better than nothing once again. There's only so many times that you can say "next year," especially when you actually have a chance to sign one.
The character issue has me prefer Horford over Howard, though. I think HOward could definitely work in the right environment, but at least you don't have those concerns with Horford.
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I must be the only one who is not all that excited about signing an injury-prone, aging star player with declining skills who tends to be a non-factor in big games to a 4-year max contract?
No, you are not. The risks of the contract are quite clear. He may be hurt for half of it and he may simply decline in performance.
Having said that...all of the "risk" is tied up in Wyc's money and cap space. As we have learned and it should be clear by now: cap space is meaningless if you cannot use it.
This was not a trade for Al Horford, giving up Smart, Olynyk and a future 1st. WE KEEP ALL OF THOSE GUYS. The players we likely see go (assuming now KD) were also likely to go regardless (Turner, Evan).
This was a 'no-brainer,' as Zach Lowe said on twitter.
Good analysis. He's definitely worth the risk, because otherwise it would just be another year of us not utilizing cap space in any meaningful way.
I would have rather spent $70-ish million on Howard for 3 years, but that's just me, and there's no telling whether he wanted to come. I like Horford, but feel that even if our roster stays the way it is, he might be the third best player on the Celtics next season.
That's understandable. I wouldn't have minded Howard at that rate over Horford. But, to me, either of them is better than nothing once again. There's only so many times that you can say "next year," especially when you actually have a chance to sign one.
The character issue has me prefer Horford over Howard, though. I think HOward could definitely work in the right environment, but at least you don't have those concerns with Horford.
Sure, there's an argument to be made that we have 3 core players signed under market for 2-3 years, so we might as well go ahead and overpay for 2 more core players with the remaining money over a comparable time period. That's not horrible logic. Just make sure not to be disappointed if Thomas performs like a $25 million player and Horford -- like the $8 million one :P
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Wow. I don't like the move, but at least we've finally signed a free agent of quality, and it's about bloody time, too, haha. So, does anyone happen to have any good crow (Hawk) recipes, lol? ;D
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Now that I've had a little while to process this....
So this if the end of Jared Sullinger, right?
I'm curious about what happens if he signs his QO and then nobody else signs him for more. And what if the same thing happened to Ty Zeller?
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Without Durant, this Horford deal is garbage. $113M for a declining 30 year old? Ugh. C'mon, Durant.
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Now that I've had a little while to process this....
So this if the end of Jared Sullinger, right?
I'm curious about what happens if he signs his QO and then nobody else signs him for more. And what if the same thing happened to Ty Zeller?
Better question to ask at this point is what the process is for rescinding QOs.
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Without Durant, this Horford deal is garbage. $113M for a declining 30 year old? Ugh. C'mon, Durant.
There's always one! ;)
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I must be the only one who is not all that excited about signing an injury-prone, aging star player with declining skills who tends to be a non-factor in big games to a 4-year max contract?
No, you are not. The risks of the contract are quite clear. He may be hurt for half of it and he may simply decline in performance.
Having said that...all of the "risk" is tied up in Wyc's money and cap space. As we have learned and it should be clear by now: cap space is meaningless if you cannot use it.
This was not a trade for Al Horford, giving up Smart, Olynyk and a future 1st. WE KEEP ALL OF THOSE GUYS. The players we likely see go (assuming now KD) were also likely to go regardless (Turner, Evan).
This was a 'no-brainer,' as Zach Lowe said on twitter.
Good analysis. He's definitely worth the risk, because otherwise it would just be another year of us not utilizing cap space in any meaningful way.
I would have rather spent $70-ish million on Howard for 3 years, but that's just me, and there's no telling whether he wanted to come. I like Horford, but feel that even if our roster stays the way it is, he might be the third best player on the Celtics next season.
I think your analysis there is fair to be honest.
Horford is definitely not better then Isaiah Thomas. Is he better then Crowder? Honestly I would probably say yes, but if so it's not by much. Crowder was putting up similar scoring numbers last year to what Horford was, and Crowder is a FAR better defensive player. I only give the edge to Horford because of intangibles (BBIQ and leadership) but in terms of pure production I don't think he's any better then Crowder.
Hell you can even argue that Avery Bradley is a better player on both ends of the court - but again lacks Horford's intangibles.
In terms of outright production Horford, Crowder and Bradley are all pretty much in the same realm. Isaiah is one or two large steps above those guys.
Horford is a nice addition, but he's not going to be enough on his own to propel this team to legit contender status. We are going to need to need a significant upgrade at another position to really propel us to another level as a team.
There are plenty of options:
1) Signing Durant (Big upgrade at SF/PF)
2) Trading for Butler (big upgrade at SG/SF)
3) Trading for Noel and playing Horford at PF (big upgrade at center)
4) Trading for Monroe and playing Horford at PF (big upgrade at center)
5) Trading for Middleton (significant upgrade at SG / SF)
Not sure what the plan is, but we're going to need another significant move of that type of magnitude to really propel us into the "contender" discussion. Horford isn't the endgame, but he's a big step in the right direction.
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Now that I've had a little while to process this....
So this if the end of Jared Sullinger, right?
It probably should be, but think how good peak Sully could be paired with Horford. He would really cover up any drop off in Horford's defense and rebounding.
Mike
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Not sure what the plan is, but we're going to need another significant move of that type of magnitude to really propel us into the "contender" discussion. Horford isn't the endgame, but he's a big step in the right direction.
I'm sure the plan is to go all out for Durant, and if it doesn't work, keep some combination of Jerebko/Amir/Sullinger/Zeller for a year and then try again for whoever is available. It's not the end of the world, honestly. Except the narrative about our team may be different next summer depending on whether last season's success is sustainable or not.
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Now that I've had a little while to process this....
So this if the end of Jared Sullinger, right?
I'm curious about what happens if he signs his QO and then nobody else signs him for more. And what if the same thing happened to Ty Zeller?
Better question to ask at this point is what the process is for rescinding QOs.
Ainge would only rescind the offers if Durant or Butler is coming and he needs roster space for ring-chasing vets.
Mike
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Not sure what the plan is, but we're going to need another significant move of that type of magnitude to really propel us into the "contender" discussion. Horford isn't the endgame, but he's a big step in the right direction.
I'm sure the plan is to go all out for Durant, and if it doesn't work, keep some combination of Jerebko/Amir/Sullinger/Zeller for a year and then try again for whoever is available. It's not the end of the world, honestly. Except the narrative about our team may be different next summer depending on whether last season's success is sustainable or not.
If we strikeout on Durant why not trade everything we have besides IT and Horford for Cousins?
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Not sure what the plan is, but we're going to need another significant move of that type of magnitude to really propel us into the "contender" discussion. Horford isn't the endgame, but he's a big step in the right direction.
I'm sure the plan is to go all out for Durant, and if it doesn't work, keep some combination of Jerebko/Amir/Sullinger/Zeller for a year and then try again for whoever is available. It's not the end of the world, honestly. Except the narrative about our team may be different next summer depending on whether last season's success is sustainable or not.
If we strikeout on Durant why not trade everything we have besides IT and Horford for Cousins?
Because it takes two to tango, and Horford and Cousins are redundant.
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Now that I've had a little while to process this....
So this if the end of Jared Sullinger, right?
I'm curious about what happens if he signs his QO and then nobody else signs him for more. And what if the same thing happened to Ty Zeller?
Better question to ask at this point is what the process is for rescinding QOs.
Ironically enough, now that we have Horford (signed, sealed and delivered!) there could be worse scenarios then re-signing Sully...
This is of course, assuming the deal is fair and that we cannot get somebody better.
We COULD put Sully at the center spot and utilise his rebounding and inside game. With Horford out there, there would be no need for Sully to EVER chuck up a three point attempt...and if we ban Sully from taking threes, there's a glimmer of hope that he could return to being the efficient inside scorer he was in his rookie year.
Even if we do manage to pick up another big man, Sully makes for a fantastic backup PF, as his conditioning issues are far less of an impact when he's playing limited minutes off the bench - he tends to be more effective that way.
I dislike Sully as much as the next guy, but letting him walk away entirely MIGHT not be the best move at this point in time...I think having him there as a backup option (in case we can't get someone better) isn't a bad idea.
This all assumes that Sully doesn't get rediculous Mozgov-like offers...at that price forget it.
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Without Durant, this Horford deal is garbage. $113M for a declining 30 year old? Ugh. C'mon, Durant.
considering evan turner got 75million and what other players are getting its not a bad deal. It is much akin IMO to danny getting ray allen...just him isnt going to put us over the top, but its another piece. a high profile free agent (hopefully) durant can look at us and see that maybe they are the piece that puts us into contendor status
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Now that I've had a little while to process this....
So this if the end of Jared Sullinger, right?
It probably should be, but think how good peak Sully could be paired with Horford. He would really cover up any drop off in Horford's defense and rebounding.
Mike
I'm confused at why we wouldn't make the qualifying offers. Wouldn't this land 2 underpaid players in the C's laps? Yes, they take roster spots... but isn't there plenty of time to deal these guys? Bargain role players with expiring salaries -- decent throw-ins to larger deals? Same argument to keep JJ and AJ -- though more $$.
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Not sure what the plan is, but we're going to need another significant move of that type of magnitude to really propel us into the "contender" discussion. Horford isn't the endgame, but he's a big step in the right direction.
I'm sure the plan is to go all out for Durant, and if it doesn't work, keep some combination of Jerebko/Amir/Sullinger/Zeller for a year and then try again for whoever is available. It's not the end of the world, honestly. Except the narrative about our team may be different next summer depending on whether last season's success is sustainable or not.
If we strikeout on Durant why not trade everything we have besides IT and Horford for Cousins?
Because it takes two to tango, and Horford and Cousins are redundant.
How are Horford and Cousins redundant?
Horford is a jack-of-all trades guy who cannot carry an offence, rebounds at a meciocre rate, and likes to play on the perimeter.
Cousins is an offensive superstar who would immediately become our #1 scoring option, dominates in the post, and is one of the best rebounders in the NBA.
Having Horford on the perimieter and Cousins in the paint makes perfect sense. Plus both guys are excellent passing bigs, and both have capable jump shots out to the three point line - both would be a perfect fit for Brad's offensive system.
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even if Durant doesnt come here this year, just signing Horford is a big plus that changes our perception around the league. now we are a team with two all-stars. gone is the stigma that "players dont want to come to boston"
now, if we get durant then all bets are off.
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Without Durant, this Horford deal is garbage. $113M for a declining 30 year old? Ugh. C'mon, Durant.
There's always one! ;)
Nah...it's not like that. It's going to take a while to get used to the new tv deal with a lot of money floating around and stuff. I was thinking in terms of the "old system." Considered Evan turner got 70M, yea, Horford's deal is ok I guess.
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Idk if it's been reported, but he has a player option after year 3
http://espn.go.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0541079210106558738-4
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Horford gets a player option after year 3.
In my opinion this makes the deal even better. Assuming he opts out this adds more flexibility long term and could make the contract easier to move if need be.
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Idk if it's been reported, but he has a player option after year 3
http://espn.go.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0541079210106558738-4
I wish that it was a team option, instead :-\.
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I mentioned in an earlier thread that we'd have to give him all the bells and whistles, so the option isn't much of a surprise. What matters is that we got him.
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“There wasn’t as much motivation for him when he saw all the empty seats when they were winning,” Tito Horford said. “He said to me, ‘Dad, when we were playing Boston, they were down 15 points and they were cheering their team like they were winning the game. They’re so into the game.’ This is special for us, especially for him.”
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2016/07/02/horford-signs-celtics-max-deal/tW6On2dfcQ8sgmE7oL0zdO/story.html
Gotta love C's fans!!!!
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Horford gets a player option after year 3.
In my opinion this makes the deal even better. Assuming he opts out this adds more flexibility long term and could make the contract easier to move if need be.
So before year 4 you mean? I also think this makes it better. Of course a team option would be better, but at least we're getting his prime years of this deal.
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Without Durant, this Horford deal is garbage. $113M for a declining 30 year old? Ugh. C'mon, Durant.
There's always one! ;)
Nah...it's not like that. It's going to take a while to get used to the new tv deal with a lot of money floating around and stuff. I was thinking in terms of the "old system." Considered Evan turner got 70M, yea, Horford's deal is ok I guess.
That doesn't matter. Ignore the number and ask yourself whether Horford would have been worth a max contract under the old cap. It's the same thing.
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Idk if it's been reported, but he has a player option after year 3
http://espn.go.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0541079210106558738-4
I'm assuming he also has a 15% trade kicker. Undoubtedly the Celtics gave him the most the CBA would allow for every feature. You have to do that to pry a max player away from a team with Bird rights.
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Without Durant, this Horford deal is garbage. $113M for a declining 30 year old? Ugh. C'mon, Durant.
There's always one! ;)
Nah...it's not like that. It's going to take a while to get used to the new tv deal with a lot of money floating around and stuff. I was thinking in terms of the "old system." Considered Evan turner got 70M, yea, Horford's deal is ok I guess.
That doesn't matter. Ignore the number and ask yourself whether Horford would have been worth a max contract under the old cap. It's the same thing.
How about, would Horford be worth a max contract under the old cap if you knew the cap was going to increase about 20% the following year?
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Keep the line moving Whose next ?
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“There wasn’t as much motivation for him when he saw all the empty seats when they were winning,” Tito Horford said. “He said to me, ‘Dad, when we were playing Boston, they were down 15 points and they were cheering their team like they were winning the game. They’re so into the game.’ This is special for us, especially for him.”
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2016/07/02/horford-signs-celtics-max-deal/tW6On2dfcQ8sgmE7oL0zdO/story.html
Gotta love C's fans!!!!
I'm sure a certain Midwestern superstar would love to hear that, especially after having all of his experience in one of the best atmospheres in OKC.
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Without Durant, this Horford deal is garbage. $113M for a declining 30 year old? Ugh. C'mon, Durant.
There's always one! ;)
Nah...it's not like that. It's going to take a while to get used to the new tv deal with a lot of money floating around and stuff. I was thinking in terms of the "old system." Considered Evan turner got 70M, yea, Horford's deal is ok I guess.
That doesn't matter. Ignore the number and ask yourself whether Horford would have been worth a max contract under the old cap. It's the same thing.
Under old cap, no. He's not worth a max in my opinion.
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Without Durant, this Horford deal is garbage. $113M for a declining 30 year old? Ugh. C'mon, Durant.
There's always one! ;)
Nah...it's not like that. It's going to take a while to get used to the new tv deal with a lot of money floating around and stuff. I was thinking in terms of the "old system." Considered Evan turner got 70M, yea, Horford's deal is ok I guess.
That doesn't matter. Ignore the number and ask yourself whether Horford would have been worth a max contract under the old cap. It's the same thing.
Under old cap, no. He's not worth a max in my opinion.
Salary cap is also projected to increase by another 14 million next year so this year's MAX contracts will be easier to swallow.
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Without Durant, this Horford deal is garbage. $113M for a declining 30 year old? Ugh. C'mon, Durant.
There's always one! ;)
Nah...it's not like that. It's going to take a while to get used to the new tv deal with a lot of money floating around and stuff. I was thinking in terms of the "old system." Considered Evan turner got 70M, yea, Horford's deal is ok I guess.
That doesn't matter. Ignore the number and ask yourself whether Horford would have been worth a max contract under the old cap. It's the same thing.
You can't consider a move like this in isolation. On those terms, 90% of the signings so far make no sense at all. You have to consider the bigger picture.
1. Even if he is declining, Horford is still going to be better than any big currently on our roster for the next two years.
2. There was maybe one other free agent big we could have signed instead (Howard) and he has his own set of issues.
3. Whatever chance we have at signing Durant, getting Horford just improved it.
4. It also makes us more appealing for any unhappy star out there who wants off his current team. That guy is much more likely to sign an extension and make trading for him worthwhile.
5. It changes the perception in the media and around the league about Boston as a destination.
6. Outside of Durant, there's no other FA we could sign this offseason that has any chance of seriously improving the team.
I really don't think there's much downside to getting Horford at this price. Other things still have to happen to make us a real contender and they may not happen, but I think this is like one of those crisis situations where it is better to do something, even if it's a mistake, than do nothing.
Mike
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Without Durant, this Horford deal is garbage. $113M for a declining 30 year old? Ugh. C'mon, Durant.
There's always one! ;)
Nah...it's not like that. It's going to take a while to get used to the new tv deal with a lot of money floating around and stuff. I was thinking in terms of the "old system." Considered Evan turner got 70M, yea, Horford's deal is ok I guess.
That doesn't matter. Ignore the number and ask yourself whether Horford would have been worth a max contract under the old cap. It's the same thing.
Under old cap, no. He's not worth a max in my opinion.
So you should undoubtedly be aware that both under the new and the old cap, max contracts are defined as a percentage of max team salary, right? If he wasn't worth max under the old cap, he probably isn't worth max under the new one, too.
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Yessssss!!!!😃😃😃
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Horford gets a player option after year 3.
In my opinion this makes the deal even better. Assuming he opts out this adds more flexibility long term and could make the contract easier to move if need be.
So before year 4 you mean? I also think this makes it better. Of course a team option would be better, but at least we're getting his prime years of this deal.
He's already 30 and has had a number of shoulder and pectoral related injuries in recent years, iirc, so I wouldn't say that we're getting anywhere near a guy in his prime.
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Horford gets a player option after year 3.
In my opinion this makes the deal even better. Assuming he opts out this adds more flexibility long term and could make the contract easier to move if need be.
So before year 4 you mean? I also think this makes it better. Of course a team option would be better, but at least we're getting his prime years of this deal.
He's already 30 and has had a number of shoulder and pectoral related injuries in recent years, iirc, so I wouldn't say that we're getting anywhere near a guy in his prime.
It's on the backside of his prime, but it's definitely still his prime. You look at his last season advanced stats, and they're all pretty much at or above his career averages, except for rebounding, which, as has been pointed out numerous times, declined with the arrival of a coach that de-emphasized rebounding and the arrival of another plus rebounder. There were only so many rebounds to go around.
Adding that 3-point shot last year will very much help his game age, and also help the Celtics with what they try to do on offense.
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http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2016/07/02/horford-signs-celtics-max-deal/tW6On2dfcQ8sgmE7oL0zdO/story.html
On Saturday evening, a deep Celtics contingent that even included Patriots quarterback Tom Brady wrapped up a recruiting meeting in New York with the prize of this free agent class, Kevin Durant.
The Celtics were pleased with the gathering, and as they boarded a private jet to fly back to Boston they were also thinking about forward Al Horford, their other prime target.
When Boston met with Horford for two hours on Friday, the four-time All-Star was well-prepared and had peppered the team’s brass with questions. The Celtics, meanwhile, delivered a lengthy presentation.
“It covered every aspect of life on and off the court in Boston and our team’s future,” said a team source. “We just made it clear from the beginning that there was a real connection.”
Still, the Celtics were unsure where they stood with Horford, particularly as the Atlanta Hawks — the team with which Horford had spent all nine years of his career — made a late push to re-sign him.
But as the jet prepared to take off, a phone rang and delivered the news the Celtics, their fans, and their city have been waiting for: Al Horford had accepted Boston’s four-year, $113 million maximum-salary contract offer. The pilot was asked to pull to the side of the runway, a source said, and when the call ended, there was a celebration.
After months of waiting and hoping and working, the Celtics had finally struck.
“We’re thinking big, and this is a big move,” the team source said. “This will set us up for the future in a better place.”
At 7:15 p.m., Horford posted on his Twitter account: “Celtic pride!!!!!!” He also changed his profile picture to the Celtics’ logo. He cannot officially sign with Boston until the league-wide moratorium ends on July 7.
Horford’s father, Tito, said in a telephone interview Saturday night that his son had narrowed his choices down to the Hawks and the Celtics. As the family discussed the options, the conversation often returned to the uncommon passion of Boston’s fans.
In Atlanta, support at home games was sometimes tepid, despite the fact that the Hawks had gone 108-56 over the last two years.
“There wasn’t as much motivation for him when he saw all the empty seats when they were winning,” Tito Horford said. “He said to me, ‘Dad, when we were playing Boston, they were down 15 points and they were cheering their team like they were winning the game. They’re so into the game.’ This is special for us, especially for him.”
Tito Horford, a center who played for the Bucks from 1988-90, tried out for the Celtics in 1995. He said he was always impressed by the franchise’s rich tradition and unending support.
“Ever since Boston, Danny Ainge and the whole organization began to show interest in him, that opened his eyes,” Tito Horford said. “He always had a good feel about Boston.”
Horford’s decision could hold even more significance, too, as it comes on the heels of the Celtics’ meeting with Durant. With Horford and fellow All-Star Isaiah Thomas, Boston can now pitch its own version of a “Big Three.”
Even if Durant ultimately decides to sign a two-year deal with the Thunder in which the second year is a player option — long considered his most likely path — the Horford signing and Saturday’s meeting could send an important message for the future.
Tito Horford said Durant would certainly be a “big fish.” But he said his son did not mention the possibility of Durant joining him in Boston and stressed that it was not the reason he chose the Celtics.
“He just said ‘Right now, I’m excited,’ ” Tito Horford said. “He said, ‘I’m going to play for the Celtics, Dad. I don’t know who else they might get, but I’m here, and I’m hoping for the best.’ ”
Regardless of whether Boston ultimately signs Durant, the Celtics improved drastically on Saturday night.
The deal with the 6-foot-10 forward is perhaps the biggest free agent coup in the history of this franchise. Horford, 30, averaged 15.2 points and 7.3 rebounds this season. He is a strong defender who also made 34.4 percent of his 3-point attempts.
“I think that Al has signaled his intentions to be a Celtic is really a historic step for this franchise,” a team source said. “To take a 48-win team with a young core and a great coach, and you add a four-time All-Star as a max free agent, and you can just see the direction we’re going in.”
On Friday the Hawks agreed to a three-year contract with former Rockets center Dwight Howard. The move appeared to be a signal that Horford’s time in Atlanta may have reached its end.
But on Saturday morning multiple reports suggested that the Wizards had joined the Celtics as finalists in the Horford sweepstakes. Then later on Saturday night, there was believed to be growing momentum that the Hawks had reemerged as favorites to re-sign their star.
If Horford had spurned the Celtics’ overtures it would have been a tough blow, and the missed opportunity would have had a ripple effect that left the team scrambling, as most of the top free agents found new homes over the past few days.
Instead, Boston found a new centerpiece who should help make it one of the elite teams in the Eastern Conference.
“I think it’s a great coaching staff and they have good players, and the tradition when you play for the Celtics, the Lakers, these are traditions,” Tito Horford said. “People are always going to support the Boston Celtics.”
Now, Boston’s entire focus turns toward Durant. The Celtics played a surprising card on Saturday by bringing Brady to their meeting with the 2014 NBA MVP. He was joined by Ainge, coach Brad Stevens, team co-owners Wyc Grousbeck and Steve Pagliuca, and Celtics players Thomas, Jae Crowder, Marcus Smart, and Kelly Olynyk.
A team source declined to go into detail about Brady’s role in the meeting, saying simply: “Tom did a very good job today.”
It may still be unlikely that Durant will choose Boston, but Horford’s presence can only help. If the Celtics can complete the impossible and add both Durant and Horford to their already talented core, they would immediately become NBA championship contenders.
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Horford gets a player option after year 3.
In my opinion this makes the deal even better. Assuming he opts out this adds more flexibility long term and could make the contract easier to move if need be.
So before year 4 you mean? I also think this makes it better. Of course a team option would be better, but at least we're getting his prime years of this deal.
He's already 30 and has had a number of shoulder and pectoral related injuries in recent years, iirc, so I wouldn't say that we're getting anywhere near a guy in his prime.
It's on the backside of his prime, but it's definitely still his prime. You look at his last season advanced stats, and they're all pretty much at or above his career averages, except for rebounding, which, as has been pointed out numerous times, declined with the arrival of a coach that de-emphasized rebounding and the arrival of another plus rebounder. There were only so many rebounds to go around.
Adding that 3-point shot last year will very much help his game age, and also help the Celtics with what they try to do on offense.
Also, iirc, his pectoral issues were due to him going too hard in the gym, right? He's obviously toned down on that a bit since then.
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The Hawks' final offer was allegedly $6 million short of a full 5 year max contract. $1.2 million per year. Why would a team nickel and dime like that? That's barely enough money to sign a second rounder.
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The Hawks' final offer was allegedly $6 million short of a full 5 year max contract. $1.2 million per year. Why would a team nickel and dime like that? That's barely enough money to sign a second rounder.
Either way, he basically turned down $23 mil more to come to Boston.
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The Hawks' final offer was allegedly $6 million short of a full 5 year max contract. $1.2 million per year. Why would a team nickel and dime like that? That's barely enough money to sign a second rounder.
I think they were six million short of signing him, not 6 mm below the five year max.
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http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2016/07/02/horford-signs-celtics-max-deal/tW6On2dfcQ8sgmE7oL0zdO/story.html
On Saturday evening, a deep Celtics contingent that even included Patriots quarterback Tom Brady wrapped up a recruiting meeting in New York with the prize of this free agent class, Kevin Durant.
The Celtics were pleased with the gathering, and as they boarded a private jet to fly back to Boston they were also thinking about forward Al Horford, their other prime target.
When Boston met with Horford for two hours on Friday, the four-time All-Star was well-prepared and had peppered the team’s brass with questions. The Celtics, meanwhile, delivered a lengthy presentation.
“It covered every aspect of life on and off the court in Boston and our team’s future,” said a team source. “We just made it clear from the beginning that there was a real connection.”
Still, the Celtics were unsure where they stood with Horford, particularly as the Atlanta Hawks — the team with which Horford had spent all nine years of his career — made a late push to re-sign him.
But as the jet prepared to take off, a phone rang and delivered the news the Celtics, their fans, and their city have been waiting for: Al Horford had accepted Boston’s four-year, $113 million maximum-salary contract offer. The pilot was asked to pull to the side of the runway, a source said, and when the call ended, there was a celebration.
After months of waiting and hoping and working, the Celtics had finally struck.
“We’re thinking big, and this is a big move,” the team source said. “This will set us up for the future in a better place.”
At 7:15 p.m., Horford posted on his Twitter account: “Celtic pride!!!!!!” He also changed his profile picture to the Celtics’ logo. He cannot officially sign with Boston until the league-wide moratorium ends on July 7.
Horford’s father, Tito, said in a telephone interview Saturday night that his son had narrowed his choices down to the Hawks and the Celtics. As the family discussed the options, the conversation often returned to the uncommon passion of Boston’s fans.
In Atlanta, support at home games was sometimes tepid, despite the fact that the Hawks had gone 108-56 over the last two years.
“There wasn’t as much motivation for him when he saw all the empty seats when they were winning,” Tito Horford said. “He said to me, ‘Dad, when we were playing Boston, they were down 15 points and they were cheering their team like they were winning the game. They’re so into the game.’ This is special for us, especially for him.”
Tito Horford, a center who played for the Bucks from 1988-90, tried out for the Celtics in 1995. He said he was always impressed by the franchise’s rich tradition and unending support.
“Ever since Boston, Danny Ainge and the whole organization began to show interest in him, that opened his eyes,” Tito Horford said. “He always had a good feel about Boston.”
Horford’s decision could hold even more significance, too, as it comes on the heels of the Celtics’ meeting with Durant. With Horford and fellow All-Star Isaiah Thomas, Boston can now pitch its own version of a “Big Three.”
Even if Durant ultimately decides to sign a two-year deal with the Thunder in which the second year is a player option — long considered his most likely path — the Horford signing and Saturday’s meeting could send an important message for the future.
Tito Horford said Durant would certainly be a “big fish.” But he said his son did not mention the possibility of Durant joining him in Boston and stressed that it was not the reason he chose the Celtics.
“He just said ‘Right now, I’m excited,’ ” Tito Horford said. “He said, ‘I’m going to play for the Celtics, Dad. I don’t know who else they might get, but I’m here, and I’m hoping for the best.’ ”
Regardless of whether Boston ultimately signs Durant, the Celtics improved drastically on Saturday night.
The deal with the 6-foot-10 forward is perhaps the biggest free agent coup in the history of this franchise. Horford, 30, averaged 15.2 points and 7.3 rebounds this season. He is a strong defender who also made 34.4 percent of his 3-point attempts.
“I think that Al has signaled his intentions to be a Celtic is really a historic step for this franchise,” a team source said. “To take a 48-win team with a young core and a great coach, and you add a four-time All-Star as a max free agent, and you can just see the direction we’re going in.”
On Friday the Hawks agreed to a three-year contract with former Rockets center Dwight Howard. The move appeared to be a signal that Horford’s time in Atlanta may have reached its end.
But on Saturday morning multiple reports suggested that the Wizards had joined the Celtics as finalists in the Horford sweepstakes. Then later on Saturday night, there was believed to be growing momentum that the Hawks had reemerged as favorites to re-sign their star.
If Horford had spurned the Celtics’ overtures it would have been a tough blow, and the missed opportunity would have had a ripple effect that left the team scrambling, as most of the top free agents found new homes over the past few days.
Instead, Boston found a new centerpiece who should help make it one of the elite teams in the Eastern Conference.
“I think it’s a great coaching staff and they have good players, and the tradition when you play for the Celtics, the Lakers, these are traditions,” Tito Horford said. “People are always going to support the Boston Celtics.”
Now, Boston’s entire focus turns toward Durant. The Celtics played a surprising card on Saturday by bringing Brady to their meeting with the 2014 NBA MVP. He was joined by Ainge, coach Brad Stevens, team co-owners Wyc Grousbeck and Steve Pagliuca, and Celtics players Thomas, Jae Crowder, Marcus Smart, and Kelly Olynyk.
A team source declined to go into detail about Brady’s role in the meeting, saying simply: “Tom did a very good job today.”
It may still be unlikely that Durant will choose Boston, but Horford’s presence can only help. If the Celtics can complete the impossible and add both Durant and Horford to their already talented core, they would immediately become NBA championship contenders.
First of all- TP for the link
2nd- wait, so he picked Boston because us, the fans? How AWESOME is that?😂 (Sorry for the caps, im ecstatic right now)
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The Hawks' final offer was allegedly $6 million short of a full 5 year max contract. $1.2 million per year. Why would a team nickel and dime like that? That's barely enough money to sign a second rounder.
Either way, he basically turned down $23 mil more to come to Boston.
this is assuming he never plays another year after 4 years. He will still get that money somehow. At 34 the way the cap is rising he can maybe even do better than that. Mozgov just got a ridiculous amount. Are you telling me Horford is not going to be better than that at 34? We may even sign him to an extension ourselves before that. Having Horford locked up until he's 36 or so isn't out of the question. We just couldn't offer him more than 4 years right now.
I don't think the Celtics are stingy that way. They extended Pierce and KG at the end of their deals even though they were aging.
If it fits into the plan without hurting our chances the Celtics will extend him. They are loyal like that. They just aren't going to do anything stupid or that they simply can't do.
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LOL!
I took my oldest son to the gym earlier this evening and we discussed the possibility (then) of him joining BOS. I told him that it would be a long shot but we both agreed that him alone would make us better - not even talking about Durantula, yet...
I told him that I was taking a nap and NOT to wake me up with ANY news about Horford (good or bad).....of course he disobeyed me but I am THANKFUL ;D.......
GREAT NEWS!!
LET"S DO IT, C'S!!!!
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The Hawks' final offer was allegedly $6 million short of a full 5 year max contract. $1.2 million per year. Why would a team nickel and dime like that? That's barely enough money to sign a second rounder.
All the while also sabotaging their chances to keep Millsap beyond this season. They might as well trade him right now and be done with it.
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Horford is exciting and Durant is even more so. But the fact that Ainge landed Horford for only slightly less insane money than a bunch of glorified role players got should truly be lauded.
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The Hawks' final offer was allegedly $6 million short of a full 5 year max contract. $1.2 million per year. Why would a team nickel and dime like that? That's barely enough money to sign a second rounder.
All the while also sabotaging their chances to keep Millsap beyond this season. They might as well trade him right now and be done with it.
It's staggering incompetence. It almost makes me think they actually wanted neither so they could tank, but why spend money on Dwight then?
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The Hawks' final offer was allegedly $6 million short of a full 5 year max contract. $1.2 million per year. Why would a team nickel and dime like that? That's barely enough money to sign a second rounder.
I think they were six million short of signing him, not 6 mm below the five year max.
Either way, it's $1.2 million per year. In this market, that's pocket change, and sounds more like a team looking to "win" a negotiation rather than attempting to sign Horford.
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Horford gets a player option after year 3.
In my opinion this makes the deal even better. Assuming he opts out this adds more flexibility long term and could make the contract easier to move if need be.
So before year 4 you mean? I also think this makes it better. Of course a team option would be better, but at least we're getting his prime years of this deal.
He's already 30 and has had a number of shoulder and pectoral related injuries in recent years, iirc, so I wouldn't say that we're getting anywhere near a guy in his prime.
It's on the backside of his prime, but it's definitely still his prime. You look at his last season advanced stats, and they're all pretty much at or above his career averages, except for rebounding, which, as has been pointed out numerous times, declined with the arrival of a coach that de-emphasized rebounding and the arrival of another plus rebounder. There were only so many rebounds to go around.
Adding that 3-point shot last year will very much help his game age, and also help the Celtics with what they try to do on offense.
Also, iirc, his pectoral issues were due to him going too hard in the gym, right? He's obviously toned down on that a bit since then.
All right, if you guys say so ;D, but I hope that you can at least understand my trepidation. I've never been a fan of his. Has everyone forgotten all the cheap shots and dirty plays that he pulled against us in those two playoff series? I just, I can't, lol ;D. Why not sign Brad Miller and Artest, too, while we're at it (sarcasm)? ::) Ugh.
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The Hawks' final offer was allegedly $6 million short of a full 5 year max contract. $1.2 million per year. Why would a team nickel and dime like that? That's barely enough money to sign a second rounder.
I think they were six million short of signing him, not 6 mm below the five year max.
Either way, it's $1.2 million per year. In this market, that's pocket change, and sounds more like a team looking to "win" a negotiation rather than attempting to sign Horford.
The Hawks were probably just going through the motions so they didn't get crucified when they didn't resign a fan favorite. I doubt they actually wanted him back.
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Living in Atlanta for the past 20 years I Can honestly say that I am very happy Adding Horford. He is truly one of the better personalities in the NBA. A really good guy that will teach our Young team a ton about being a professional.. He is a classic Leader of Men.. This young team (who has never won a playoff series) will soak up Horfords Experience..
He is the perfect on the floor teacher for all of our young men because he has never truly been athletic player, he's always been a smart fundamental player.. Can you imagine what a Jaylen Brown can learn from him.. And what about the international kids - what can they glean from a guy like Horford? This is a super big win for the Celtics. This is exactly what a young team needs.. A leader who has worked hard for 9 years to make himself the player he is..
This pick up is for more than wins and losses, this pick up is for hammering home the culture of who we will be for the next 10-15 years.. CBS is a heck of a coach, but all great coaches need an experienced floor General.. Horford is now that guy.. The Glue.
Danny improved us a 1000% today while managing to protect our tomorrow.. You cant ask for anything more than that from a GM.. Celtics won FA in my opinion.. with or without Durant..
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Back in Feb it was reported that the Max contract the Hawk could offer Al was 5/145 and from what I have been hearing the latest Hawks offer was 5/136 but after seeing the offers on the table if the Hawks really wanted Al why would they just not go Max? It almost like they were trying to come out of it saying we won the negotiations and still got the player we wanted. Good luck with Dwight Atlanta.
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Back in Feb it was reported that the Max contract the Hawk could offer Al was 5/145 and from what I have been hearing the latest Hawks offer was 5/136 but after seeing the offers on the table if the Hawks really wanted Al why would they just not go Max? It almost like they were trying to come out of it saying we won the negotiations and still got the player we wanted. Good luck with Dwight Atlanta.
My hunch is that they didn't want him back, but didn't want to p--- off the fanbase, so they made an offer they knew he wouldn't accept.
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Without Durant, this Horford deal is garbage. $113M for a declining 30 year old? Ugh. C'mon, Durant.
There's always one! ;)
Nah...it's not like that. It's going to take a while to get used to the new tv deal with a lot of money floating around and stuff. I was thinking in terms of the "old system." Considered Evan turner got 70M, yea, Horford's deal is ok I guess.
That doesn't matter. Ignore the number and ask yourself whether Horford would have been worth a max contract under the old cap. It's the same thing.
Under old cap, no. He's not worth a max in my opinion.
So you should undoubtedly be aware that both under the new and the old cap, max contracts are defined as a percentage of max team salary, right? If he wasn't worth max under the old cap, he probably isn't worth max under the new one, too.
Honestly, I don't think it's that simple. I don't think a max contract now is comparable to a max contract under the old cap.
Reason is that under the old cap, there would have been only a handful of teams in the NBA - probably four or five at most - who would have had the cap space to offer a max contract. Most of those would be teams who had a lack of talent (as the teams with good players usually don't have cap space), so that forces quality players to make the choice - "Do I take the money and go to a potentially weaker team, or do I sacrifice some coin so that I can go to a team that can win?".
The difference is that right now, because of the way the cap jumped, pretty much EVERY team in the NBA has the cap space to sign a max contract player. That means that a guy like Horford who is looking for a big payday has the luxury of going to a winning team AND getting the max as well.
It also means guys like Mozgov can pull off a $17M deal because so many teams have cap space that if the Lakers DIDN'T offer him that, some other team probably will.
Everybody wants to get better, so everybody wants to add talent. There are only so many legit stars on the free agent market - Howard, Horford, Durant - maybe Conley at a squeeze. Once those guys are off the market, you end up a giant bidding war, with the next 20-25 teams sitting around with tons of money in their account, trying to work out who is the best guy to spend it on. It's not a matter of "do we spend it?" - it's a question of "who do we spend it on?".
Mediocre guys are going to get big paydays. Guys like Horford, who might have considered settling for less then a max deal a year or two ago, now have no reason to settle for anything less.
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Back in Feb it was reported that the Max contract the Hawk could offer Al was 5/145 and from what I have been hearing the latest Hawks offer was 5/136 but after seeing the offers on the table if the Hawks really wanted Al why would they just not go Max? It almost like they were trying to come out of it saying we won the negotiations and still got the player we wanted. Good luck with Dwight Atlanta.
My hunch is that they didn't want him back, but didn't want to p--- off the fanbase, so they made an offer they knew he wouldn't accept.
It that's true they should have traded him in February. My gut says they were trying to be cheap and "win" the negotiation. But as I said in a different thread, that was stupid. Atlanta never should have let Horford talk to other teams. Just give the man what you can and move on.
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Back in Feb it was reported that the Max contract the Hawk could offer Al was 5/145 and from what I have been hearing the latest Hawks offer was 5/136 but after seeing the offers on the table if the Hawks really wanted Al why would they just not go Max? It almost like they were trying to come out of it saying we won the negotiations and still got the player we wanted. Good luck with Dwight Atlanta.
My hunch is that they didn't want him back, but didn't want to p--- off the fanbase, so they made an offer they knew he wouldn't accept.
It that's true they should have traded him in February. My gut says they were trying to be cheap and "win" the negotiation. But as I said in a different thread, that was stupid. Atlanta never should have let Horford talk to other teams. Just give the man what you can and move on.
They should have moved both Teague and Horford this past February. They got burned by waiting too long on both.
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Back in Feb it was reported that the Max contract the Hawk could offer Al was 5/145 and from what I have been hearing the latest Hawks offer was 5/136 but after seeing the offers on the table if the Hawks really wanted Al why would they just not go Max? It almost like they were trying to come out of it saying we won the negotiations and still got the player we wanted. Good luck with Dwight Atlanta.
My hunch is that they didn't want him back, but didn't want to p--- off the fanbase, so they made an offer they knew he wouldn't accept.
It that's true they should have traded him in February. My gut says they were trying to be cheap and "win" the negotiation. But as I said in a different thread, that was stupid. Atlanta never should have let Horford talk to other teams. Just give the man what you can and move on.
I don't think they had a lot of interest in keeping him to be honest.
Atlanta have had Horford for how long now? How far have that gotten with him as their best / second best player? Pretty much nowhere.
If they re-signed him for max money and ate up all their cap space, where is that likely to get them moving forward? Pretty much the same place - nowhere.
I assume Atlanta's top priority was going after Dwight Howard, who honestly fits better next to Millsap and has the potential to be a game-changer for them. If they missed out on Howard, then I assume the would have gone after Horford with everything they had and offered him the full max if need be.
But they got Dwight at $24M a year, so the prospect of signing Al Horford (arguably a lesser player) for closer to $28M probably just didn;t make sense for them.
I mean really - the Hawks got Dwight Howard for the same price as what Chandler freaking Parsons signed for...and only $7M a year more then what Timofey bloomin Mozgov signed for. That's a ludicriously good deal, and looking at the type of deals that are being thrown around now (which will only get worse in the coming years), Dwight's contract is going to be like pure gold bullion on the trade market.
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Back in Feb it was reported that the Max contract the Hawk could offer Al was 5/145 and from what I have been hearing the latest Hawks offer was 5/136 but after seeing the offers on the table if the Hawks really wanted Al why would they just not go Max? It almost like they were trying to come out of it saying we won the negotiations and still got the player we wanted. Good luck with Dwight Atlanta.
My hunch is that they didn't want him back, but didn't want to p--- off the fanbase, so they made an offer they knew he wouldn't accept.
It that's true they should have traded him in February. My gut says they were trying to be cheap and "win" the negotiation. But as I said in a different thread, that was stupid. Atlanta never should have let Horford talk to other teams. Just give the man what you can and move on.
Yeah, that does poke holes in my theory. I guess the logical response would be that they decided they no longer wanted Horford after the trade deadline.
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Hawks fans really despise us after visiting Peach Tree Hoops lol. They still think their current roster can beat us.
Well, had Bradley and Olynyk not been injured I'm pretty sure we would've taken Game 1, and left the Hawks dead in 6 games before getting ousted by the Cavaliers.
Now that we added Al Horford (and a few more to come) to play under Brad Stevens system, this team will demolish the Atlanta Hawks.
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(http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_content_width/hash/69/0b/u15_0.jpg?itok=Nhx_tTuV)
We get former Miss Universe in the package too ;)
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https://twitter.com/BenStandig/status/749438912838324224
David Aldridge on Horford: "I think if he had decided last night, I think he would have picked the Wizards. It was that close"
If that's the case, then good job Al. Sleep on that decision. Glad to see you made the RIGHT choose!
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Hawks fans really despise us after visiting Peach Tree Hoops lol. They still think their current roster can beat us.
Well, had Bradley and Olynyk not been injured I'm pretty sure we would've taken Game 1, and left the Hawks dead in 6 games before getting ousted by the Cavaliers.
Now that we added Al Horford (and a few more to come) to play under Brad Stevens system, this team will demolish the Atlanta Hawks.
It definitely can and probably will, as of right now, imo.
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Hawks fans really despise us after visiting Peach Tree Hoops lol. They still think their current roster can beat us.
Well, had Bradley and Olynyk not been injured I'm pretty sure we would've taken Game 1, and left the Hawks dead in 6 games before getting ousted by the Cavaliers.
Now that we added Al Horford (and a few more to come) to play under Brad Stevens system, this team will demolish the Atlanta Hawks.
It definitely can and probably will, as of right now, imo.
what does imo mean? I don't know what it means but in my opinion in this context it is short for emoji. :)
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https://twitter.com/BenStandig/status/749438912838324224
David Aldridge on Horford: "I think if he had decided last night, I think he would have picked the Wizards. It was that close"
If that's the case, then good job Al. Sleep on that decision. Glad to see you made the RIGHT choose!
David Alridge hasn't exactly been reliable anymore. His info and his insight seems like he just copy pasted what someone else is saying, or thinking.
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Hawks fans really despise us after visiting Peach Tree Hoops lol. They still think their current roster can beat us.
Well, had Bradley and Olynyk not been injured I'm pretty sure we would've taken Game 1, and left the Hawks dead in 6 games before getting ousted by the Cavaliers.
Now that we added Al Horford (and a few more to come) to play under Brad Stevens system, this team will demolish the Atlanta Hawks.
It definitely can and probably will, as of right now, imo.
what does imo mean? I don't know what it means but in my opinion in this context it is short for emoji. :)
That's actually exactly what it stands for, lol ;D.
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Hawks fans really despise us after visiting Peach Tree Hoops lol. They still think their current roster can beat us.
Well, had Bradley and Olynyk not been injured I'm pretty sure we would've taken Game 1, and left the Hawks dead in 6 games before getting ousted by the Cavaliers.
Now that we added Al Horford (and a few more to come) to play under Brad Stevens system, this team will demolish the Atlanta Hawks.
It definitely can and probably will, as of right now, imo.
They beat us in 6, but since then weve added Avery Bradley, Kelly Olynyk(basically), Al Horford, and Jaylen Brown while losing Evan Turner. They lost Teague and Horford and got back Prince Howard and splitter(?) Also take into account the fact that we were the younger team and its pretty logical to say we have a superior roster to them at this point.
And none of that even takes into account the fact that Crowder was hobbled pretty badly that series
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Hawks fans really despise us after visiting Peach Tree Hoops lol. They still think their current roster can beat us.
Well, had Bradley and Olynyk not been injured I'm pretty sure we would've taken Game 1, and left the Hawks dead in 6 games before getting ousted by the Cavaliers.
Now that we added Al Horford (and a few more to come) to play under Brad Stevens system, this team will demolish the Atlanta Hawks.
It definitely can and probably will, as of right now, imo.
They beat us in 6, but since then weve added Avery Bradley, Kelly Olynyk(basically), Al Horford, and Jaylen Brown while losing Evan Turner. They lost Teague and Horford and got back Prince Howard and splitter(?) Also take into account the fact that we were the younger team and its pretty logical to say we have a superior roster to them at this point.
And none of that even takes into account the fact that Crowder was hobbled pretty badly that series
They didn't "lose" Teague -- they got rid of him because Schroder made him redundant. Other than that, they replaced Horford with Howard. Injuries or no injuries, our roster is not any more superior than it was last season. Probably less.
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Hawks fans really despise us after visiting Peach Tree Hoops lol. They still think their current roster can beat us.
Well, had Bradley and Olynyk not been injured I'm pretty sure we would've taken Game 1, and left the Hawks dead in 6 games before getting ousted by the Cavaliers.
Now that we added Al Horford (and a few more to come) to play under Brad Stevens system, this team will demolish the Atlanta Hawks.
It definitely can and probably will, as of right now, imo.
They beat us in 6, but since then weve added Avery Bradley, Kelly Olynyk(basically), Al Horford, and Jaylen Brown while losing Evan Turner. They lost Teague and Horford and got back Prince Howard and splitter(?) Also take into account the fact that we were the younger team and its pretty logical to say we have a superior roster to them at this point.
And none of that even takes into account the fact that Crowder was hobbled pretty badly that series
They didn't "lose" Teague -- they got rid of him because Schroder made him redundant. Other than that, they replaced Horford with Howard. Injuries or no injuries, our roster is not any more superior than it was last season. Probably less.
Thats a nice way to frame it, but Teague is still a big loss. Even if you think Schroeder can adequetely replace Teagues production (which I doubt) their backup pg will pale in comparison to Schroeder.
Replaced Horford with Howard is fair, but we replaced Sully with Horford. You can argue Howard > Horford but the contracts the two of them just signed disagrees with that assessment. I think Howards probably the better player but the gap between Howard and Horford is a lot smaller than the one between Horford and Sullinger furthermore, however backs up Schroeder (Hardaway?) is gonna be a lot worse than Schroeder was. Everyone has injuries but I think its unfair to just ignore the fact that 3 of our 5 best shooters were hurt that series allowing them to completely focus on Thomas.
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Hawks fans really despise us after visiting Peach Tree Hoops lol. They still think their current roster can beat us.
Well, had Bradley and Olynyk not been injured I'm pretty sure we would've taken Game 1, and left the Hawks dead in 6 games before getting ousted by the Cavaliers.
Now that we added Al Horford (and a few more to come) to play under Brad Stevens system, this team will demolish the Atlanta Hawks.
It definitely can and probably will, as of right now, imo.
They beat us in 6, but since then weve added Avery Bradley, Kelly Olynyk(basically), Al Horford, and Jaylen Brown while losing Evan Turner. They lost Teague and Horford and got back Prince Howard and splitter(?) Also take into account the fact that we were the younger team and its pretty logical to say we have a superior roster to them at this point.
And none of that even takes into account the fact that Crowder was hobbled pretty badly that series
They didn't "lose" Teague -- they got rid of him because Schroder made him redundant. Other than that, they replaced Horford with Howard. Injuries or no injuries, our roster is not any more superior than it was last season. Probably less.
Is this for real? Did you read the title of this thread? We got Al horford. They lost al horford.
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Hawks fans really despise us after visiting Peach Tree Hoops lol. They still think their current roster can beat us.
Well, had Bradley and Olynyk not been injured I'm pretty sure we would've taken Game 1, and left the Hawks dead in 6 games before getting ousted by the Cavaliers.
Now that we added Al Horford (and a few more to come) to play under Brad Stevens system, this team will demolish the Atlanta Hawks.
It definitely can and probably will, as of right now, imo.
They beat us in 6, but since then weve added Avery Bradley, Kelly Olynyk(basically), Al Horford, and Jaylen Brown while losing Evan Turner. They lost Teague and Horford and got back Prince Howard and splitter(?) Also take into account the fact that we were the younger team and its pretty logical to say we have a superior roster to them at this point.
And none of that even takes into account the fact that Crowder was hobbled pretty badly that series
They didn't "lose" Teague -- they got rid of him because Schroder made him redundant. Other than that, they replaced Horford with Howard. Injuries or no injuries, our roster is not any more superior than it was last season. Probably less.
Is this for real? Did you read the title of this thread? We got Al horford. They lost al horford.
Right. They also signed Dwight Howard. And we lost Evan Turner. We'll probably end up losing other rotation guys, too. Come back to talk when the free agency high wears out.
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they probably thought Horford would give in to less money b/c he's probably done it before, maybe he's like Wade, tired of taking less to help the team when at this point there is no reason for either one to do it. Probably boils down to repaying loyalty but I haven't checked the numbers on his previous deal so I could be way off.
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Hawks fans really despise us after visiting Peach Tree Hoops lol. They still think their current roster can beat us.
Well, had Bradley and Olynyk not been injured I'm pretty sure we would've taken Game 1, and left the Hawks dead in 6 games before getting ousted by the Cavaliers.
Now that we added Al Horford (and a few more to come) to play under Brad Stevens system, this team will demolish the Atlanta Hawks.
It definitely can and probably will, as of right now, imo.
They beat us in 6, but since then weve added Avery Bradley, Kelly Olynyk(basically), Al Horford, and Jaylen Brown while losing Evan Turner. They lost Teague and Horford and got back Prince Howard and splitter(?) Also take into account the fact that we were the younger team and its pretty logical to say we have a superior roster to them at this point.
And none of that even takes into account the fact that Crowder was hobbled pretty badly that series
They didn't "lose" Teague -- they got rid of him because Schroder made him redundant. Other than that, they replaced Horford with Howard. Injuries or no injuries, our roster is not any more superior than it was last season. Probably less.
Is this for real? Did you read the title of this thread? We got Al horford. They lost al horford.
Right. They also signed Dwight Howard. And we lost Evan Turner. We'll probably end up losing other rotation guys, too. Come back to talk when the free agency high wears out.
we only have to lose others if KD or some replacements sign...
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Hawks fans really despise us after visiting Peach Tree Hoops lol. They still think their current roster can beat us.
Well, had Bradley and Olynyk not been injured I'm pretty sure we would've taken Game 1, and left the Hawks dead in 6 games before getting ousted by the Cavaliers.
Now that we added Al Horford (and a few more to come) to play under Brad Stevens system, this team will demolish the Atlanta Hawks.
It definitely can and probably will, as of right now, imo.
They beat us in 6, but since then weve added Avery Bradley, Kelly Olynyk(basically), Al Horford, and Jaylen Brown while losing Evan Turner. They lost Teague and Horford and got back Prince Howard and splitter(?) Also take into account the fact that we were the younger team and its pretty logical to say we have a superior roster to them at this point.
And none of that even takes into account the fact that Crowder was hobbled pretty badly that series
They didn't "lose" Teague -- they got rid of him because Schroder made him redundant. Other than that, they replaced Horford with Howard. Injuries or no injuries, our roster is not any more superior than it was last season. Probably less.
Is this for real? Did you read the title of this thread? We got Al horford. They lost al horford.
Right. They also signed Dwight Howard. And we lost Evan Turner. We'll probably end up losing other rotation guys, too. Come back to talk when the free agency high wears out.
Teagues a bigger loss than Turner is. I'd imagine that's a fairly uncontroversial statement. Also Sully for Horford is a clear win and since we are dismissing injuries i suppose we have to use regular season records to compare. Both teams won 48 games since then Bostons improved more than Atlanta ergo Bostons roster is superior to Atlanta's
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Apart from ET, if we don't sign KD, we don't have to lose anybody from last season's roster.
DA could simply resign the others, add Al Horford and call it an offseason. In this case, would there be any doubt Cs roster was better than last year's?I don't think so.
Given that, IF Danny doesn't bring the band together and decide to change pieces, he probably believes the team will be getting better by not doing so. Any FA that eventually replaces Zeller, Sully or JJ is suposed to be better in terms of production/contract, otherwise Danny wouldn't give up on them.
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Ecstatic right now, a great signing, a four year deal witch i thought was crucial in getting a lower level max player, great job by danny, and now we all wait for Kevin!!!
welcome Al 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
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Hawks fans really despise us after visiting Peach Tree Hoops lol. They still think their current roster can beat us.
Well, had Bradley and Olynyk not been injured I'm pretty sure we would've taken Game 1, and left the Hawks dead in 6 games before getting ousted by the Cavaliers.
Now that we added Al Horford (and a few more to come) to play under Brad Stevens system, this team will demolish the Atlanta Hawks.
It definitely can and probably will, as of right now, imo.
They beat us in 6, but since then weve added Avery Bradley, Kelly Olynyk(basically), Al Horford, and Jaylen Brown while losing Evan Turner. They lost Teague and Horford and got back Prince Howard and splitter(?) Also take into account the fact that we were the younger team and its pretty logical to say we have a superior roster to them at this point.
And none of that even takes into account the fact that Crowder was hobbled pretty badly that series
They didn't "lose" Teague -- they got rid of him because Schroder made him redundant. Other than that, they replaced Horford with Howard. Injuries or no injuries, our roster is not any more superior than it was last season. Probably less.
Is this for real? Did you read the title of this thread? We got Al horford. They lost al horford.
Right. They also signed Dwight Howard. And we lost Evan Turner. We'll probably end up losing other rotation guys, too. Come back to talk when the free agency high wears out.
Teagues a bigger loss than Turner is. I'd imagine that's a fairly uncontroversial statement. Also Sully for Horford is a clear win and since we are dismissing injuries i suppose we have to use regular season records to compare. Both teams won 48 games since then Bostons improved more than Atlanta ergo Bostons roster is superior to Atlanta's
Did you miss the part where they VOLUNTARILY traded away Teague? As in, they didn't want him? That's how much of a loss they thought he was.
You may think that Sullinger to Horford is a greater upgrade than Horford to Howard. You're welcome to your opinion. As I said, come back when the "ohmigodwesignedhorfordz" wears out.
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Hawks fans really despise us after visiting Peach Tree Hoops lol. They still think their current roster can beat us.
Well, had Bradley and Olynyk not been injured I'm pretty sure we would've taken Game 1, and left the Hawks dead in 6 games before getting ousted by the Cavaliers.
Now that we added Al Horford (and a few more to come) to play under Brad Stevens system, this team will demolish the Atlanta Hawks.
It definitely can and probably will, as of right now, imo.
They beat us in 6, but since then weve added Avery Bradley, Kelly Olynyk(basically), Al Horford, and Jaylen Brown while losing Evan Turner. They lost Teague and Horford and got back Prince Howard and splitter(?) Also take into account the fact that we were the younger team and its pretty logical to say we have a superior roster to them at this point.
And none of that even takes into account the fact that Crowder was hobbled pretty badly that series
They didn't "lose" Teague -- they got rid of him because Schroder made him redundant. Other than that, they replaced Horford with Howard. Injuries or no injuries, our roster is not any more superior than it was last season. Probably less.
Is this for real? Did you read the title of this thread? We got Al horford. They lost al horford.
Right. They also signed Dwight Howard. And we lost Evan Turner. We'll probably end up losing other rotation guys, too. Come back to talk when the free agency high wears out.
Teagues a bigger loss than Turner is. I'd imagine that's a fairly uncontroversial statement. Also Sully for Horford is a clear win and since we are dismissing injuries i suppose we have to use regular season records to compare. Both teams won 48 games since then Bostons improved more than Atlanta ergo Bostons roster is superior to Atlanta's
Did you miss the part where they VOLUNTARILY traded away Teague? As in, they didn't want him? That's how much of a loss they thought he was.
You may think that Sullinger to Horford is a greater upgrade than Horford to Howard. You're welcome to your opinion. As I said, come back when the "ohmigodwesignedhorfordz" wears out.
The Hawks had Schroeder and knew they didn't need 2 point guards especially because Teague was coming up to get paid so keeping the two of them would be an inefficient use of cap space. Instead they chose to get a lottery pick which they used to select a SF which made sense because at that point they were at risk of losing Bazemore and their other high minute wing (korver) is 34.
Just because they felt it was best for the long term to trade Teague does not mean it isn't a loss. Surely you can see that. We have cap space and we voluntarily let Turner walk does that mean we won't miss his production? No. Cmon this argument is dumb.
Horford doesn't make us a true contender but he gives us a better roster than the Hawks.
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Hawks fans really despise us after visiting Peach Tree Hoops lol. They still think their current roster can beat us.
Well, had Bradley and Olynyk not been injured I'm pretty sure we would've taken Game 1, and left the Hawks dead in 6 games before getting ousted by the Cavaliers.
Now that we added Al Horford (and a few more to come) to play under Brad Stevens system, this team will demolish the Atlanta Hawks.
It definitely can and probably will, as of right now, imo.
They beat us in 6, but since then weve added Avery Bradley, Kelly Olynyk(basically), Al Horford, and Jaylen Brown while losing Evan Turner. They lost Teague and Horford and got back Prince Howard and splitter(?) Also take into account the fact that we were the younger team and its pretty logical to say we have a superior roster to them at this point.
And none of that even takes into account the fact that Crowder was hobbled pretty badly that series
They didn't "lose" Teague -- they got rid of him because Schroder made him redundant. Other than that, they replaced Horford with Howard. Injuries or no injuries, our roster is not any more superior than it was last season. Probably less.
Is this for real? Did you read the title of this thread? We got Al horford. They lost al horford.
Right. They also signed Dwight Howard. And we lost Evan Turner. We'll probably end up losing other rotation guys, too. Come back to talk when the free agency high wears out.
Teagues a bigger loss than Turner is. I'd imagine that's a fairly uncontroversial statement. Also Sully for Horford is a clear win and since we are dismissing injuries i suppose we have to use regular season records to compare. Both teams won 48 games since then Bostons improved more than Atlanta ergo Bostons roster is superior to Atlanta's
Did you miss the part where they VOLUNTARILY traded away Teague? As in, they didn't want him? That's how much of a loss they thought he was.
You may think that Sullinger to Horford is a greater upgrade than Horford to Howard. You're welcome to your opinion. As I said, come back when the "ohmigodwesignedhorfordz" wears out.
I swear, you can never please some people. What did you want dude? Did you want Towns and LeBron and Steph and Kawhi to join us?
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Hawks fans really despise us after visiting Peach Tree Hoops lol. They still think their current roster can beat us.
Well, had Bradley and Olynyk not been injured I'm pretty sure we would've taken Game 1, and left the Hawks dead in 6 games before getting ousted by the Cavaliers.
Now that we added Al Horford (and a few more to come) to play under Brad Stevens system, this team will demolish the Atlanta Hawks.
It definitely can and probably will, as of right now, imo.
They beat us in 6, but since then weve added Avery Bradley, Kelly Olynyk(basically), Al Horford, and Jaylen Brown while losing Evan Turner. They lost Teague and Horford and got back Prince Howard and splitter(?) Also take into account the fact that we were the younger team and its pretty logical to say we have a superior roster to them at this point.
And none of that even takes into account the fact that Crowder was hobbled pretty badly that series
Nolynyk gives us nothing, imo, but let's break it down as of right now -
Boston -
IT, Bradley, Serena Williams, Horford, and I have no idea who is going to play center for us, unless of course you want to put Horford, there, leaving, who, Amir or Swedish Meatballs as our starting 4? Great (sarcasm) ::).
Bench - Smart, Rozier, Jackson, Hunter, Young, Bentil, and Brown. I didn't list Zizic and Yabusele because idk if either or even one of them will be playing with us at any point this year.
Atlanta -
Schroeder, Korver, Bazemore, Millsap, and Howard. I could very well see the Hawks moving Ashton Kutcher to the bench, Bazemore to the 2, and starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.
Bench - Deandre Bembry (great pick, imo), Tim Hardaway Jr, Mike Muscala, Mike Scott, Sefolosha, and Splitter. I apologize if I've forgotten anyone, so feel free to add to this list.
Based on all of that, Atlanta clearly has a better defensive team with their starters, imo, and their bench is pretty strong, as well. Probably the best way to counter Millsap would be starting Bentil, imo, but still, they have more size, especially at point guard and center, so we're still going to have trouble rebounding, most likely, and they have more shooting as well as a better playmaker off of their bench in Bembry than we do, assuming, of course, that Jackson gets zero court time, this year. Sigh.
Anyway, yeah, I'd give the edge to Atlanta as of right now.
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Hawks fans really despise us after visiting Peach Tree Hoops lol. They still think their current roster can beat us.
Well, had Bradley and Olynyk not been injured I'm pretty sure we would've taken Game 1, and left the Hawks dead in 6 games before getting ousted by the Cavaliers.
Now that we added Al Horford (and a few more to come) to play under Brad Stevens system, this team will demolish the Atlanta Hawks.
It definitely can and probably will, as of right now, imo.
They beat us in 6, but since then weve added Avery Bradley, Kelly Olynyk(basically), Al Horford, and Jaylen Brown while losing Evan Turner. They lost Teague and Horford and got back Prince Howard and splitter(?) Also take into account the fact that we were the younger team and its pretty logical to say we have a superior roster to them at this point.
And none of that even takes into account the fact that Crowder was hobbled pretty badly that series
They didn't "lose" Teague -- they got rid of him because Schroder made him redundant. Other than that, they replaced Horford with Howard. Injuries or no injuries, our roster is not any more superior than it was last season. Probably less.
Is this for real? Did you read the title of this thread? We got Al horford. They lost al horford.
Right. They also signed Dwight Howard. And we lost Evan Turner. We'll probably end up losing other rotation guys, too. Come back to talk when the free agency high wears out.
Teagues a bigger loss than Turner is. I'd imagine that's a fairly uncontroversial statement. Also Sully for Horford is a clear win and since we are dismissing injuries i suppose we have to use regular season records to compare. Both teams won 48 games since then Bostons improved more than Atlanta ergo Bostons roster is superior to Atlanta's
Did you miss the part where they VOLUNTARILY traded away Teague? As in, they didn't want him? That's how much of a loss they thought he was.
You may think that Sullinger to Horford is a greater upgrade than Horford to Howard. You're welcome to your opinion. As I said, come back when the "ohmigodwesignedhorfordz" wears out.
The Hawks had Schroeder and knew they didn't need 2 point guards especially because Teague was coming up to get paid so keeping the two of them would be an inefficient use of cap space. Instead they chose to get a lottery pick which they used to select a SF which made sense because at that point they were at risk of losing Bazemore and their other high minute wing (korver) is 34.
Just because they felt it was best for the long term to trade Teague does not mean it isn't a loss. Surely you can see that. We have cap space and we voluntarily let Turner walk does that mean we won't miss his production? No. Cmon this argument is dumb.
Horford doesn't make us a true contender but he gives us a better roster than the Hawks.
They traded away Teague because Schroder could and has fully replicated his production in the past.
We let Turner walk not because we think an erratic third year player and a 19-year old rookie can replace his production, but because his contract is the proverbial "good intention" on the road to cap hell.
One is a basketball decision. The other one is a business decision. See the difference? SMH.
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Taurean Prince is already better than Jae? Just when I thought I'd heard it all.
If we had picked him would he still be better than Jae? Or would Danny have made a terrible move since he drafted a guy who projects to be maybe as good as Jae, and hence would be redundant?
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Hawks fans really despise us after visiting Peach Tree Hoops lol. They still think their current roster can beat us.
Well, had Bradley and Olynyk not been injured I'm pretty sure we would've taken Game 1, and left the Hawks dead in 6 games before getting ousted by the Cavaliers.
Now that we added Al Horford (and a few more to come) to play under Brad Stevens system, this team will demolish the Atlanta Hawks.
It definitely can and probably will, as of right now, imo.
They beat us in 6, but since then weve added Avery Bradley, Kelly Olynyk(basically), Al Horford, and Jaylen Brown while losing Evan Turner. They lost Teague and Horford and got back Prince Howard and splitter(?) Also take into account the fact that we were the younger team and its pretty logical to say we have a superior roster to them at this point.
And none of that even takes into account the fact that Crowder was hobbled pretty badly that series
They didn't "lose" Teague -- they got rid of him because Schroder made him redundant. Other than that, they replaced Horford with Howard. Injuries or no injuries, our roster is not any more superior than it was last season. Probably less.
Is this for real? Did you read the title of this thread? We got Al horford. They lost al horford.
Right. They also signed Dwight Howard. And we lost Evan Turner. We'll probably end up losing other rotation guys, too. Come back to talk when the free agency high wears out.
Teagues a bigger loss than Turner is. I'd imagine that's a fairly uncontroversial statement. Also Sully for Horford is a clear win and since we are dismissing injuries i suppose we have to use regular season records to compare. Both teams won 48 games since then Bostons improved more than Atlanta ergo Bostons roster is superior to Atlanta's
Did you miss the part where they VOLUNTARILY traded away Teague? As in, they didn't want him? That's how much of a loss they thought he was.
You may think that Sullinger to Horford is a greater upgrade than Horford to Howard. You're welcome to your opinion. As I said, come back when the "ohmigodwesignedhorfordz" wears out.
The Hawks had Schroeder and knew they didn't need 2 point guards especially because Teague was coming up to get paid so keeping the two of them would be an inefficient use of cap space. Instead they chose to get a lottery pick which they used to select a SF which made sense because at that point they were at risk of losing Bazemore and their other high minute wing (korver) is 34.
Just because they felt it was best for the long term to trade Teague does not mean it isn't a loss. Surely you can see that. We have cap space and we voluntarily let Turner walk does that mean we won't miss his production? No. Cmon this argument is dumb.
Horford doesn't make us a true contender but he gives us a better roster than the Hawks.
They traded away Teague because Schroder could and has fully replicated his production in the past.
We let Turner walk not because we think an erratic third year player and a 19-year old rookie can replace his production, but because his contract is the proverbial "good intention" on the road to cap hell.
One is a basketball decision. The other one is a business decision. See the difference? SMH.
Are you really claiming that Atlanta will lose nothing by trading Teague for Prince? This seems ridiculous to me.
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Taurean Prince is already better than Jae? Just when I thought I'd heard it all.
If we had picked him would he still be better than Jae? Or would Danny have made a terrible move since he drafted a guy who projects to be maybe as good as Jae, and hence would be redundant?
My personal favorite was the implication that it our only hope would be to play Jackson and Bentil.
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Hawks fans really despise us after visiting Peach Tree Hoops lol. They still think their current roster can beat us.
Well, had Bradley and Olynyk not been injured I'm pretty sure we would've taken Game 1, and left the Hawks dead in 6 games before getting ousted by the Cavaliers.
Now that we added Al Horford (and a few more to come) to play under Brad Stevens system, this team will demolish the Atlanta Hawks.
It definitely can and probably will, as of right now, imo.
They beat us in 6, but since then weve added Avery Bradley, Kelly Olynyk(basically), Al Horford, and Jaylen Brown while losing Evan Turner. They lost Teague and Horford and got back Prince Howard and splitter(?) Also take into account the fact that we were the younger team and its pretty logical to say we have a superior roster to them at this point.
And none of that even takes into account the fact that Crowder was hobbled pretty badly that series
They didn't "lose" Teague -- they got rid of him because Schroder made him redundant. Other than that, they replaced Horford with Howard. Injuries or no injuries, our roster is not any more superior than it was last season. Probably less.
Is this for real? Did you read the title of this thread? We got Al horford. They lost al horford.
Right. They also signed Dwight Howard. And we lost Evan Turner. We'll probably end up losing other rotation guys, too. Come back to talk when the free agency high wears out.
Teagues a bigger loss than Turner is. I'd imagine that's a fairly uncontroversial statement. Also Sully for Horford is a clear win and since we are dismissing injuries i suppose we have to use regular season records to compare. Both teams won 48 games since then Bostons improved more than Atlanta ergo Bostons roster is superior to Atlanta's
Did you miss the part where they VOLUNTARILY traded away Teague? As in, they didn't want him? That's how much of a loss they thought he was.
You may think that Sullinger to Horford is a greater upgrade than Horford to Howard. You're welcome to your opinion. As I said, come back when the "ohmigodwesignedhorfordz" wears out.
The Hawks had Schroeder and knew they didn't need 2 point guards especially because Teague was coming up to get paid so keeping the two of them would be an inefficient use of cap space. Instead they chose to get a lottery pick which they used to select a SF which made sense because at that point they were at risk of losing Bazemore and their other high minute wing (korver) is 34.
Just because they felt it was best for the long term to trade Teague does not mean it isn't a loss. Surely you can see that. We have cap space and we voluntarily let Turner walk does that mean we won't miss his production? No. Cmon this argument is dumb.
Horford doesn't make us a true contender but he gives us a better roster than the Hawks.
They traded away Teague because Schroder could and has fully replicated his production in the past.
We let Turner walk not because we think an erratic third year player and a 19-year old rookie can replace his production, but because his contract is the proverbial "good intention" on the road to cap hell.
One is a basketball decision. The other one is a business decision. See the difference? SMH.
Are you really claiming that Atlanta will lose nothing by trading Teague for Prince? This seems ridiculous to me.
What seems ridiculous to me is that people think that Atlanta is worse at this point than it was at the end of this season.
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Hawks fans really despise us after visiting Peach Tree Hoops lol. They still think their current roster can beat us.
Well, had Bradley and Olynyk not been injured I'm pretty sure we would've taken Game 1, and left the Hawks dead in 6 games before getting ousted by the Cavaliers.
Now that we added Al Horford (and a few more to come) to play under Brad Stevens system, this team will demolish the Atlanta Hawks.
It definitely can and probably will, as of right now, imo.
They beat us in 6, but since then weve added Avery Bradley, Kelly Olynyk(basically), Al Horford, and Jaylen Brown while losing Evan Turner. They lost Teague and Horford and got back Prince Howard and splitter(?) Also take into account the fact that we were the younger team and its pretty logical to say we have a superior roster to them at this point.
And none of that even takes into account the fact that Crowder was hobbled pretty badly that series
They didn't "lose" Teague -- they got rid of him because Schroder made him redundant. Other than that, they replaced Horford with Howard. Injuries or no injuries, our roster is not any more superior than it was last season. Probably less.
Is this for real? Did you read the title of this thread? We got Al horford. They lost al horford.
Right. They also signed Dwight Howard. And we lost Evan Turner. We'll probably end up losing other rotation guys, too. Come back to talk when the free agency high wears out.
Teagues a bigger loss than Turner is. I'd imagine that's a fairly uncontroversial statement. Also Sully for Horford is a clear win and since we are dismissing injuries i suppose we have to use regular season records to compare. Both teams won 48 games since then Bostons improved more than Atlanta ergo Bostons roster is superior to Atlanta's
Did you miss the part where they VOLUNTARILY traded away Teague? As in, they didn't want him? That's how much of a loss they thought he was.
You may think that Sullinger to Horford is a greater upgrade than Horford to Howard. You're welcome to your opinion. As I said, come back when the "ohmigodwesignedhorfordz" wears out.
The Hawks had Schroeder and knew they didn't need 2 point guards especially because Teague was coming up to get paid so keeping the two of them would be an inefficient use of cap space. Instead they chose to get a lottery pick which they used to select a SF which made sense because at that point they were at risk of losing Bazemore and their other high minute wing (korver) is 34.
Just because they felt it was best for the long term to trade Teague does not mean it isn't a loss. Surely you can see that. We have cap space and we voluntarily let Turner walk does that mean we won't miss his production? No. Cmon this argument is dumb.
Horford doesn't make us a true contender but he gives us a better roster than the Hawks.
They traded away Teague because Schroder could and has fully replicated his production in the past.
We let Turner walk not because we think an erratic third year player and a 19-year old rookie can replace his production, but because his contract is the proverbial "good intention" on the road to cap hell.
One is a basketball decision. The other one is a business decision. See the difference? SMH.
Are you really claiming that Atlanta will lose nothing by trading Teague for Prince? This seems ridiculous to me.
What seems ridiculous to me is that people think that Atlanta is worse at this point than it was at the end of this season.
Honestly, it just feels like you're negative no matter what happens. What would you have like the Celtics to do?
Also, if the Celtics beat the Hawks in the playoffs next year, you'll still be complaining. By the way, you do realize Howard's team last year was like 500 right? They also had Harden on that team. Never seen anyone overrate Howard more than you. He's a shell of himself...
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This is what I had to say about Al Horford in an article I wrote in May about why Durant should choose the Celtics over Oklahoma.
Take Al Horford, for instance. Horford has been the key player in an Atlanta Hawks team that has made the playoffs nine straight years. No, Horford is not a superstar on the level of guys like Durant and LeBron, but his addition could still be significant. It’s easy to take his impact for granted when there’s no Horford-less Hawks team to compare to. Our best sample size is the 2013-14 season in which Horford was limited to just 29 games. The Hawks managed to go 16-13 in games Horford played (a 45 win pace right in line with their previous season). In games Horford missed, the Hawks had a losing record of 22-31 (a 34 win pace).
Naturally, Horford has seem some decline since 2013-14. Despite this, he’s been a key contributor to a Hawks team that won 60 games last season and knocked off the Celtics in the first round of the playoffs this year. One could make a reasonable case based on the 2014-15 season that Horford adds roughly 11 wins to that Hawks team.
http://clnsradio.com/boston-celtics-news/item/13861-why-kevin-durant-should-choose-the-boston-celtics-over-the-oklahoma-city-thunder-in-free-agency
Adding Horford is huge for us regardless of whether or not we sign Durant. This team has elite defensive guards. It desperately needs an elite defensive big man. That's Al Horford. We should be a top 5 defensive team next year unless something goes very wrong. And Boston was actually Top 5 last year in points scored. If we're Top 5 in both categories, you're looking at a team that could threaten to win 55 games next season without even adding a phenom like Durant (his addition could get us 65+ wins).
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Honestly, it just feels like you're negative no matter what happens. What would you have like the Celtics to do?
Also, if the Celtics beat the Hawks in the playoffs next year, you'll still be complaining. By the way, you do realize Howard's team last year was like 500 right? They also had Harden on that team. Never seen anyone overrate Howard more than you. He's a shell of himself...
I have complained? That's news to me.
Pointing out that the conclusion that our roster somehow became vastly superior to Atlanta's overnight is the result of free agency euphoria is not complaining.
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Hawks fans really despise us after visiting Peach Tree Hoops lol. They still think their current roster can beat us.
Well, had Bradley and Olynyk not been injured I'm pretty sure we would've taken Game 1, and left the Hawks dead in 6 games before getting ousted by the Cavaliers.
Now that we added Al Horford (and a few more to come) to play under Brad Stevens system, this team will demolish the Atlanta Hawks.
It definitely can and probably will, as of right now, imo.
They beat us in 6, but since then weve added Avery Bradley, Kelly Olynyk(basically), Al Horford, and Jaylen Brown while losing Evan Turner. They lost Teague and Horford and got back Prince Howard and splitter(?) Also take into account the fact that we were the younger team and its pretty logical to say we have a superior roster to them at this point.
And none of that even takes into account the fact that Crowder was hobbled pretty badly that series
Nolynyk gives us nothing, imo, but let's break it down as of right now -
Boston -
IT, Bradley, Serena Williams, Horford, and I have no idea who is going to play center for us, unless of course you want to put Horford, there, leaving, who, Amir or Swedish Meatballs as our starting 4? Great (sarcasm) ::).
Bench - Smart, Rozier, Jackson, Hunter, Young, Bentil, and Brown. I didn't list Zizic and Yabusele because idk if either or even one of them will be playing with us at any point this year.
Atlanta -
Schroeder, Korver, Bazemore, Millsap, and Howard. I could very well see the Hawks moving Ashton Kutcher to the bench, Bazemore to the 2, and starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.
Bench - Deandre Bembry (great pick, imo), Tim Hardaway Jr, Mike Muscala, Mike Scott, Sefolosha, and Splitter. I apologize if I've forgotten anyone, so feel free to add to this list.
Based on all of that, Atlanta clearly has a better defensive team with their starters, imo, and their bench is pretty strong, as well. Probably the best way to counter Millsap would be starting Bentil, imo, but still, they have more size, especially at point guard and center, so we're still going to have trouble rebounding, most likely, and they have more shooting as well as a better playmaker off of their bench in Bembry than we do, assuming, of course, that Jackson gets zero court time, this year. Sigh.
Anyway, yeah, I'd give the edge to Atlanta as of right now.
Right now I'd be inclined to agree with you, although it's close. You do a disservice to some of our guys. However our simmer is not over even if we miss out on Durant. We would still be able to massively increase our front court with someone like Gasol
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Honestly, it just feels like you're negative no matter what happens. What would you have like the Celtics to do?
Also, if the Celtics beat the Hawks in the playoffs next year, you'll still be complaining. By the way, you do realize Howard's team last year was like 500 right? They also had Harden on that team. Never seen anyone overrate Howard more than you. He's a shell of himself...
I have complained? That's news to me.
Pointing out that all that the conclusion that our roster somehow became vastly superior to Atlanta's overnight are the result of free agency euphoria is not complaining.
Bro, in earlier posts you said Horford was a bad contract. Stop contradicting yourself. You also ignore great counters other people have made to your arguments. And stop ignoring my point about Howard.
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Hawks fans really despise us after visiting Peach Tree Hoops lol. They still think their current roster can beat us.
Well, had Bradley and Olynyk not been injured I'm pretty sure we would've taken Game 1, and left the Hawks dead in 6 games before getting ousted by the Cavaliers.
Now that we added Al Horford (and a few more to come) to play under Brad Stevens system, this team will demolish the Atlanta Hawks.
It definitely can and probably will, as of right now, imo.
They beat us in 6, but since then weve added Avery Bradley, Kelly Olynyk(basically), Al Horford, and Jaylen Brown while losing Evan Turner. They lost Teague and Horford and got back Prince Howard and splitter(?) Also take into account the fact that we were the younger team and its pretty logical to say we have a superior roster to them at this point.
And none of that even takes into account the fact that Crowder was hobbled pretty badly that series
They didn't "lose" Teague -- they got rid of him because Schroder made him redundant. Other than that, they replaced Horford with Howard. Injuries or no injuries, our roster is not any more superior than it was last season. Probably less.
Is this for real? Did you read the title of this thread? We got Al horford. They lost al horford.
Right. They also signed Dwight Howard. And we lost Evan Turner. We'll probably end up losing other rotation guys, too. Come back to talk when the free agency high wears out.
Teagues a bigger loss than Turner is. I'd imagine that's a fairly uncontroversial statement. Also Sully for Horford is a clear win and since we are dismissing injuries i suppose we have to use regular season records to compare. Both teams won 48 games since then Bostons improved more than Atlanta ergo Bostons roster is superior to Atlanta's
Did you miss the part where they VOLUNTARILY traded away Teague? As in, they didn't want him? That's how much of a loss they thought he was.
You may think that Sullinger to Horford is a greater upgrade than Horford to Howard. You're welcome to your opinion. As I said, come back when the "ohmigodwesignedhorfordz" wears out.
The Hawks had Schroeder and knew they didn't need 2 point guards especially because Teague was coming up to get paid so keeping the two of them would be an inefficient use of cap space. Instead they chose to get a lottery pick which they used to select a SF which made sense because at that point they were at risk of losing Bazemore and their other high minute wing (korver) is 34.
Just because they felt it was best for the long term to trade Teague does not mean it isn't a loss. Surely you can see that. We have cap space and we voluntarily let Turner walk does that mean we won't miss his production? No. Cmon this argument is dumb.
Horford doesn't make us a true contender but he gives us a better roster than the Hawks.
They traded away Teague because Schroder could and has fully replicated his production in the past.
We let Turner walk not because we think an erratic third year player and a 19-year old rookie can replace his production, but because his contract is the proverbial "good intention" on the road to cap hell.
One is a basketball decision. The other one is a business decision. See the difference? SMH.
Are you really claiming that Atlanta will lose nothing by trading Teague for Prince? This seems ridiculous to me.
What seems ridiculous to me is that people think that Atlanta is worse at this point than it was at the end of this season.
Does Atlanta lose anything with the loss of Schroeder
Is Horford over Sully a bigger upgrade than Howard over Horford
Are the far younger Celtics more likely to say internal improvement than the much older Hawks.
These 3 questions provide enough grounds to suggest that the 48 win celtics have improved more than the 48 win Hawks who depending on your interpretation of their offseason which saw them lose 2 of their 3 best players and bring in one of the most controversial post players in the NBA whom their own FO valued lower than Horford (look at reported deals ATL was willing to pay Horford more $ at more years) you could make a well reasoned argument that they are worse than they were last year.
stop acting like you are clearly in the right here. Atlanta may be better than us still hit it sure as hell Kant obvious.
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Hawks fans really despise us after visiting Peach Tree Hoops lol. They still think their current roster can beat us.
Well, had Bradley and Olynyk not been injured I'm pretty sure we would've taken Game 1, and left the Hawks dead in 6 games before getting ousted by the Cavaliers.
Now that we added Al Horford (and a few more to come) to play under Brad Stevens system, this team will demolish the Atlanta Hawks.
It definitely can and probably will, as of right now, imo.
They beat us in 6, but since then weve added Avery Bradley, Kelly Olynyk(basically), Al Horford, and Jaylen Brown while losing Evan Turner. They lost Teague and Horford and got back Prince Howard and splitter(?) Also take into account the fact that we were the younger team and its pretty logical to say we have a superior roster to them at this point.
And none of that even takes into account the fact that Crowder was hobbled pretty badly that series
They didn't "lose" Teague -- they got rid of him because Schroder made him redundant. Other than that, they replaced Horford with Howard. Injuries or no injuries, our roster is not any more superior than it was last season. Probably less.
Is this for real? Did you read the title of this thread? We got Al horford. They lost al horford.
Right. They also signed Dwight Howard. And we lost Evan Turner. We'll probably end up losing other rotation guys, too. Come back to talk when the free agency high wears out.
Teagues a bigger loss than Turner is. I'd imagine that's a fairly uncontroversial statement. Also Sully for Horford is a clear win and since we are dismissing injuries i suppose we have to use regular season records to compare. Both teams won 48 games since then Bostons improved more than Atlanta ergo Bostons roster is superior to Atlanta's
Did you miss the part where they VOLUNTARILY traded away Teague? As in, they didn't want him? That's how much of a loss they thought he was.
You may think that Sullinger to Horford is a greater upgrade than Horford to Howard. You're welcome to your opinion. As I said, come back when the "ohmigodwesignedhorfordz" wears out.
The Hawks had Schroeder and knew they didn't need 2 point guards especially because Teague was coming up to get paid so keeping the two of them would be an inefficient use of cap space. Instead they chose to get a lottery pick which they used to select a SF which made sense because at that point they were at risk of losing Bazemore and their other high minute wing (korver) is 34.
Just because they felt it was best for the long term to trade Teague does not mean it isn't a loss. Surely you can see that. We have cap space and we voluntarily let Turner walk does that mean we won't miss his production? No. Cmon this argument is dumb.
Horford doesn't make us a true contender but he gives us a better roster than the Hawks.
They traded away Teague because Schroder could and has fully replicated his production in the past.
We let Turner walk not because we think an erratic third year player and a 19-year old rookie can replace his production, but because his contract is the proverbial "good intention" on the road to cap hell.
One is a basketball decision. The other one is a business decision. See the difference? SMH.
Are you really claiming that Atlanta will lose nothing by trading Teague for Prince? This seems ridiculous to me.
What seems ridiculous to me is that people think that Atlanta is worse at this point than it was at the end of this season.
Does Atlanta lose anything with the loss of Schroeder
Is Horford over Sully a bigger upgrade than Howard over Horford
Are the far younger Celtics more likely to say internal improvement than the much older Hawks.
These 3 questions provide enough grounds to suggest that the 48 win celtics have improved more than the 48 win Hawks who depending on your interpretation of their offseason which saw them lose 2 of their 3 best players and bring in one of the most controversial post players in the NBA whom their own FO valued lower than Horford (look at reported deals ATL was willing to pay Horford more $ at more years) you could make a well reasoned argument that they are worse than they were last year.
stop acting like you are clearly in the right here. Atlanta may be better than us still hit it sure as hell Kant obvious.
It's really hard to conclude Atlanta is better than us at this point. He keeps ignoring the fact that we are a young team as well and none of our players except Horford have hit their Primes. You could maybe make a case for Thomas, who is only 27 right now.
I mean Horford stretched the floor for them as a center, something Howard can't do and it will effect them offensively. I mean it's pretty crystal clear.
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Honestly, it just feels like you're negative no matter what happens. What would you have like the Celtics to do?
Also, if the Celtics beat the Hawks in the playoffs next year, you'll still be complaining. By the way, you do realize Howard's team last year was like 500 right? They also had Harden on that team. Never seen anyone overrate Howard more than you. He's a shell of himself...
I have complained? That's news to me.
Pointing out that all that the conclusion that our roster somehow became vastly superior to Atlanta's overnight are the result of free agency euphoria is not complaining.
Bro, in earlier posts you said Horford was a bad contract. Stop contradicting yourself. You also ignore great counters other people have made to your arguments. And stop ignoring my point about Howard.
As I said, come back to talk when the endorphins wear out. It's clear that they mess with your reading comprehension.
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Honestly, it just feels like you're negative no matter what happens. What would you have like the Celtics to do?
Also, if the Celtics beat the Hawks in the playoffs next year, you'll still be complaining. By the way, you do realize Howard's team last year was like 500 right? They also had Harden on that team. Never seen anyone overrate Howard more than you. He's a shell of himself...
I have complained? That's news to me.
Pointing out that all that the conclusion that our roster somehow became vastly superior to Atlanta's overnight are the result of free agency euphoria is not complaining.
Bro, in earlier posts you said Horford was a bad contract. Stop contradicting yourself. You also ignore great counters other people have made to your arguments. And stop ignoring my point about Howard.
As I said, come back to talk when the endorphins wear out. It's clear that they mess with your reading comprehension.
As usual, you keep ignoring everything I say. You did say earlier he was a bad contract. That means you just contradicted yourself lol. But yeah, keep acting like everyone on this board is crazy dude. Enjoy the island you're on.
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Honestly, it just feels like you're negative no matter what happens. What would you have like the Celtics to do?
Also, if the Celtics beat the Hawks in the playoffs next year, you'll still be complaining. By the way, you do realize Howard's team last year was like 500 right? They also had Harden on that team. Never seen anyone overrate Howard more than you. He's a shell of himself...
I have complained? That's news to me.
Pointing out that all that the conclusion that our roster somehow became vastly superior to Atlanta's overnight are the result of free agency euphoria is not complaining.
Bro, in earlier posts you said Horford was a bad contract. Stop contradicting yourself. You also ignore great counters other people have made to your arguments. And stop ignoring my point about Howard.
As I said, come back to talk when the endorphins wear out. It's clear that they mess with your reading comprehension.
By the way, Al Horford was ranked 17th in Win share last season while Howard was 43. But yeah we all have the green googles right and you as an unbias king is right. I hope you caught my sarcasm cause it's clear you don't want to be happy.
Dropping the mic there cause you just got owned.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2016_advanced.html
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Deleted.
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Honestly, it just feels like you're negative no matter what happens. What would you have like the Celtics to do?
Also, if the Celtics beat the Hawks in the playoffs next year, you'll still be complaining. By the way, you do realize Howard's team last year was like 500 right? They also had Harden on that team. Never seen anyone overrate Howard more than you. He's a shell of himself...
I have complained? That's news to me.
Pointing out that all that the conclusion that our roster somehow became vastly superior to Atlanta's overnight are the result of free agency euphoria is not complaining.
Bro, in earlier posts you said Horford was a bad contract. Stop contradicting yourself. You also ignore great counters other people have made to your arguments. And stop ignoring my point about Howard.
As I said, come back to talk when the endorphins wear out. It's clear that they mess with your reading comprehension.
Are the endorphins messing with your ability to have a logical discussion?
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I love my new sig guys.
::) Have you ever seen Prince play? He's taller, more athletic, can actually score in the post, has a surprisingly-nice step back from midrange, and, like Crowder, has a great work ethic. It's not as clear cut as you think, but I guess that I shouldn't really be surprised given how you have a tendency to just spew things without doing any research on the topic ::). What did I ever do to you?
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Taurean Prince is already better than Jae? Just when I thought I'd heard it all.
If we had picked him would he still be better than Jae? Or would Danny have made a terrible move since he drafted a guy who projects to be maybe as good as Jae, and hence would be redundant?
Yes.
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I love my new sig guys.
::) Have you ever seen Prince play? He's taller, more athletic, can actually score in the post, has a surprisingly-nice step back from midrange, and, like Crowder, has a great work ethic. It's not as clear cut as you think, but I guess that I shouldn't really be surprised given how you have a tendency to just spew things without doing any research on the topic ::). What did I ever do to you?
Sounds like someone just watched his DX video.
Did I watch Prince a lot? No. Did I watch him enough to be able to make a fair judgement? Yes. In the long term he might have a better career than Jae, but in no way shape or form is he better than Jae right now.
People say Jaylen is a bust before he's played an NBA game. That's unreasonable because we have not seen what he can do in the NBA yet.
You say Prince is better than Jae before Prince has played an NBA game. That's also unreasonable because we have not seen what he can do in the NBA.
Why don't you reserve all your judgements about these kids until after they play for awhile in the NBA? I do plenty of research in the topics that are discussed on this forum. If you think I'm just spewing stuff out, then clearly you haven't noticed how you post on here.
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Al Horford is basically perfect for this team and addresses one of our greatest weaknesses. The fact that he added a reliable 3-point shot last season takes it to another level. He's perfect for Brad Stevens.
He lead the Hawks to 60 wins last season. He does a little of everything. This is huge.
If you're luke warm on the move, just watch some Al Horford highlight videos and get pumped. Everyone loves highlight videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGAPmPDhMjY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLLLUhXxaVQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMbPu-4lYVU
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I love my new sig guys.
::) Have you ever seen Prince play? He's taller, more athletic, can actually score in the post, has a surprisingly-nice step back from midrange, and, like Crowder, has a great work ethic. It's not as clear cut as you think, but I guess that I shouldn't really be surprised given how you have a tendency to just spew things without doing any research on the topic ::). What did I ever do to you?
Sounds like someone just watched his DX video.
Did I watch Prince a lot? No. Did I watch him enough to be able to make a fair judgement? Yes. In the long term he might have a better career than Jae, but in no way shape or form is he better than Jae right now.
People say Jaylen is a bust before he's played an NBA game. That's unreasonable because we have not seen what he can do in the NBA yet.
You say Prince is better than Jae before Prince has played an NBA game. That's also unreasonable because we have not seen what he can do in the NBA.
Why don't you reserve all your judgements about these kids until after they play for awhile in the NBA? I do plenty of research in the topics that are discussed on this forum. If you think I'm just spewing stuff out, then clearly you haven't noticed how you post on here.
Yeah, like that time that CoachBo stated on at least 4 different occasions that he would have taken Kris Dunn at 3 but since you didn't notice it, you continued to operate under the assumption that said poster never did so and ridiculed him for it, so it's hard to take you seriously when you do things like that and then say that you do plenty of research on topics, but whatever; and no, I don't spew anything out. Unless I'm making a joke, everything I post on here is based either on what I've seen, read, or what other people have stated on here in the past. Having a different viewpoint doesn't equate to spewing. Failure to do proper research before making a claim, however, does. Maybe you should try it ;). I also did not watch his draftexpress video, but again, continue to make those assumptions - it's really working for you (sarcasm) ::).
Additionally, you still have yet to answer my question - what did I ever do to you? I've never attacked you nor any of your posts in any way, shape, or form, nor have I engaged in such sophomoric behavior as choosing to put a quote of yours in my sig and then proceed to go, "Hey, everybody, look at how awesome I am." You stay classy, alldaboston ::).
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Taurean Prince is already better than Jae? Just when I thought I'd heard it all.
If we had picked him would he still be better than Jae? Or would Danny have made a terrible move since he drafted a guy who projects to be maybe as good as Jae, and hence would be redundant?
My personal favorite was the implication that it our only hope would be to play Jackson and Bentil.
Given that Bentil is an inside-out threat like Millsap, yeah, I think that that we be a good way to offset Millsap's production, and of the guys we have off of the bench, Jackson is the best playmaker of the bunch, especially since we just lost Turner. Who would you rather have running the offense? Rozier? Smart? Brown? Ahahaha ;D.
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I love my new sig guys.
::) Have you ever seen Prince play? He's taller, more athletic, can actually score in the post, has a surprisingly-nice step back from midrange, and, like Crowder, has a great work ethic. It's not as clear cut as you think, but I guess that I shouldn't really be surprised given how you have a tendency to just spew things without doing any research on the topic ::). What did I ever do to you?
Sounds like someone just watched his DX video.
Did I watch Prince a lot? No. Did I watch him enough to be able to make a fair judgement? Yes. In the long term he might have a better career than Jae, but in no way shape or form is he better than Jae right now.
People say Jaylen is a bust before he's played an NBA game. That's unreasonable because we have not seen what he can do in the NBA yet.
You say Prince is better than Jae before Prince has played an NBA game. That's also unreasonable because we have not seen what he can do in the NBA.
Why don't you reserve all your judgements about these kids until after they play for awhile in the NBA? I do plenty of research in the topics that are discussed on this forum. If you think I'm just spewing stuff out, then clearly you haven't noticed how you post on here.
Yeah, like that time that CoachBo stated on at least 4 different occasions that he would have taken Kris Dunn at 3 but since you didn't notice it, you continued to operate under the assumption that said poster never did so and ridiculed him for it, so it's hard to take you seriously when you do things like that and then say that you do plenty of research on topics, but whatever; and no, I don't spew anything out. Unless I'm making a joke, everything I post on here is based either on what I've seen, read, or what other people have stated on here in the past. Having a different viewpoint doesn't equate to spewing. Failure to do proper research before making a claim, however, does. Maybe you should try it ;). I also did not watch his draftexpress video, but again, continue to make those assumptions - it's really working for you (sarcasm) ::).
Additionally, you still have yet to answer my question - what did I ever do to you? I've never attacked you nor any of your posts in any way, shape, or form, nor have I engaged in such sophomoric behavior as choosing to put a quote of yours in my sig and then proceed to go, "Hey, everybody, look at how awesome I am." You stay classy, alldaboston ::).
So it's my responsibility to go and check his post history to find where he said it? How about the fact that he never responded to me when I asked him who he wanted? That's what I meant when I said what I said about him. If he had simply responded to my comment saying that he would take Dunn, the problem would be solved and we would never be having this conversation.
So now it's a problem to have a sig? I can put whatever I want in my sig. Its perfectly reasonable for me to want to be reminded of your extremely unreasonable claim every time I post here. When LarBrd said he thought Brooklyn would win 35-40 games, a poster here (I forget who) put that comment in his sig. Is that sophomoric behavior too?
But just for you, I'll go ahead and delete that comment. Evidently it struck you the wrong way. So I'm sorry for that.
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Al Horford is basically perfect for this team and addresses one of our greatest weaknesses. The fact that he added a reliable 3-point shot last season takes it to another level. He's perfect for Brad Stevens.
He lead the Hawks to 60 wins last season. He does a little of everything. This is huge.
If you're luke warm on the move, just watch some Al Horford highlight videos and get pumped. Everyone loves highlight videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGAPmPDhMjY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLLLUhXxaVQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMbPu-4lYVU
Dat set shot, tho ;D. TP for the videos, man, although I think that this one showing Horford and Howard outlines both the good and bad about having Al matchup with Dwight, but I suppose that that goes both ways, so yeah ;D -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcgLEY3k5AM
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Al Horford is basically perfect for this team and addresses one of our greatest weaknesses. The fact that he added a reliable 3-point shot last season takes it to another level. He's perfect for Brad Stevens.
He lead the Hawks to 60 wins last season. He does a little of everything. This is huge.
If you're luke warm on the move, just watch some Al Horford highlight videos and get pumped. Everyone loves highlight videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGAPmPDhMjY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLLLUhXxaVQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMbPu-4lYVU
Dat set shot, tho ;D. TP for the videos, man, although I think that this one showing Horford and Howard outlines both the good and bad about having Al matchup with Dwight, but I suppose that that goes both ways, so yeah ;D -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcgLEY3k5AM
at 3:23 of that video, that for me is the biggest difference between Horford and Howard. Horford just makes "winning plays". He doesn't seem like the type to ever give up on a play. It actually reminded me of that game 7 (I think?) vs Pierce and the Wizards the other year. He swooped in and made the game-winning o-reb and putback.
EDIT: my bad, it was game 5 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffXOza3r3zY)
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I love my new sig guys.
::) Have you ever seen Prince play? He's taller, more athletic, can actually score in the post, has a surprisingly-nice step back from midrange, and, like Crowder, has a great work ethic. It's not as clear cut as you think, but I guess that I shouldn't really be surprised given how you have a tendency to just spew things without doing any research on the topic ::). What did I ever do to you?
Sounds like someone just watched his DX video.
Did I watch Prince a lot? No. Did I watch him enough to be able to make a fair judgement? Yes. In the long term he might have a better career than Jae, but in no way shape or form is he better than Jae right now.
People say Jaylen is a bust before he's played an NBA game. That's unreasonable because we have not seen what he can do in the NBA yet.
You say Prince is better than Jae before Prince has played an NBA game. That's also unreasonable because we have not seen what he can do in the NBA.
Why don't you reserve all your judgements about these kids until after they play for awhile in the NBA? I do plenty of research in the topics that are discussed on this forum. If you think I'm just spewing stuff out, then clearly you haven't noticed how you post on here.
Yeah, like that time that CoachBo stated on at least 4 different occasions that he would have taken Kris Dunn at 3 but since you didn't notice it, you continued to operate under the assumption that said poster never did so and ridiculed him for it, so it's hard to take you seriously when you do things like that and then say that you do plenty of research on topics, but whatever; and no, I don't spew anything out. Unless I'm making a joke, everything I post on here is based either on what I've seen, read, or what other people have stated on here in the past. Having a different viewpoint doesn't equate to spewing. Failure to do proper research before making a claim, however, does. Maybe you should try it ;). I also did not watch his draftexpress video, but again, continue to make those assumptions - it's really working for you (sarcasm) ::).
Additionally, you still have yet to answer my question - what did I ever do to you? I've never attacked you nor any of your posts in any way, shape, or form, nor have I engaged in such sophomoric behavior as choosing to put a quote of yours in my sig and then proceed to go, "Hey, everybody, look at how awesome I am." You stay classy, alldaboston ::).
So it's my responsibility to go and check his post history to find where he said it? How about the fact that he never responded to me when I asked him who he wanted? That's what I meant when I said what I said about him. If he had simply responded to my comment saying that he would take Dunn, the problem would be solved and we would never be having this conversation.
So now it's a problem to have a sig? I can put whatever I want in my sig. Its perfectly reasonable for me to want to be reminded of your extremely unreasonable claim every time I post here. When LarBrd said he thought Brooklyn would win 35-40 games, a poster here (I forget who) put that comment in his sig. Is that sophomoric behavior too?
But just for you, I'll go ahead and delete that comment. Evidently it struck you the wrong way. So I'm sorry for that.
You really never saw any of the comments he made regarding Dunn? Well, I did, and I only searched for them to make a point after the fact, but they were there, in plain sight, and in popular threads, no less.
There's nothing wrong with having a sig, but I reject the notion that it's perfectly reasonable for you to want to be reminded of my 'unreasonable' claim whenever you're here, especially after saying that I do so on a regular basis, which is patently false and you know it, so why else would you have it up other than to mock me?
The poster to whom you're referring regarding LarBrd33's preseason prediction on the Nets, btw, is Eddie20, who has on at least 3 occasions derided my posts (even going so far as to say that I post nonsense), insulted me personally, and resorted to name calling, all of which I subsequently reported after doing absolutely nothing to him at all, so, again, you're not doing your homework, and using him as an example of what should not be construed as sophomoric behavior is not only simply unfathomable to me, but also puts you in his category of bullying, as far as I'm concerned. Please at least try to know what you're talking about on these matters so as to not dig yourself an even further hole. If you want to argue/debate a point, fine. If you want to maybe playfully poke fun at something I post in addition to making fun of yourself as I often do on here, that's fine, too, but don't try and mock me and then attempt to defend it as some sort of personal reminder. That, to me, has about as much credibility as saying that your account was hacked for 5 months by friends of Nicki Minaj, lol ;D.
I have no problem admitting that I'm an idiot, which I am, lol, and that I'm wrong. For example, I never thought that we'd sign a free agent of Horford's caliber, but when it happened, and even though I'm not a fan of his nor the move (sorry, man, too many battles and dirty plays over the years to forget), I posted that I was surprised (I think I said 'wow') and asked if anyone had any good crow (hawk) or vice versa recipes ;D, thereby poking fun at myself, but I suppose that because I only posted this comment in the thread, in general, and did not respond to one of yours asking 'what are the haters going to say now' or something, that that means that it never actually happened, right? ::) Do what you want with your sig - I don't care, but your showing in this exercise is frankly more pitiful than Ainge's drafting record, imo, and is hardly a ringing endorsement of what we can expect from you in the future as a poster if this behavior continues, barring a radical transformation. I also find it amusing that you still have yet to explain what it is that I ever did to you to warrant such behavior, but I think we both know that the answer to that question, is, in a word, nothing. I enjoy spirited conversation regarding the Celtics, preferably with humor mixed in, but what you're doing is none of that.
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Al Horford is basically perfect for this team and addresses one of our greatest weaknesses. The fact that he added a reliable 3-point shot last season takes it to another level. He's perfect for Brad Stevens.
He lead the Hawks to 60 wins last season. He does a little of everything. This is huge.
If you're luke warm on the move, just watch some Al Horford highlight videos and get pumped. Everyone loves highlight videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGAPmPDhMjY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLLLUhXxaVQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMbPu-4lYVU
Dat set shot, tho ;D. TP for the videos, man, although I think that this one showing Horford and Howard outlines both the good and bad about having Al matchup with Dwight, but I suppose that that goes both ways, so yeah ;D -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcgLEY3k5AM
at 3:23 of that video, that for me is the biggest difference between Horford and Howard. Horford just makes "winning plays". He doesn't seem like the type to ever give up on a play. It actually reminded me of that game 7 (I think?) vs Pierce and the Wizards the other year. He swooped in and made the game-winning o-reb and putback.
EDIT: my bad, it was game 5 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffXOza3r3zY)
Yeah, I'm just concerned about the size and athletic mismatch in Howard's favor. If he ever developed reliable post moves like he demonstrated in this video against Horford, we'd have an even bigger problem, lol ;D.
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I love my new sig guys.
::) Have you ever seen Prince play? He's taller, more athletic, can actually score in the post, has a surprisingly-nice step back from midrange, and, like Crowder, has a great work ethic. It's not as clear cut as you think, but I guess that I shouldn't really be surprised given how you have a tendency to just spew things without doing any research on the topic ::). What did I ever do to you?
Have you ever seen Prince play against NBA players?
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Hawks fans really despise us after visiting Peach Tree Hoops lol. They still think their current roster can beat us.
Well, had Bradley and Olynyk not been injured I'm pretty sure we would've taken Game 1, and left the Hawks dead in 6 games before getting ousted by the Cavaliers.
Now that we added Al Horford (and a few more to come) to play under Brad Stevens system, this team will demolish the Atlanta Hawks.
It definitely can and probably will, as of right now, imo.
They beat us in 6, but since then weve added Avery Bradley, Kelly Olynyk(basically), Al Horford, and Jaylen Brown while losing Evan Turner. They lost Teague and Horford and got back Prince Howard and splitter(?) Also take into account the fact that we were the younger team and its pretty logical to say we have a superior roster to them at this point.
And none of that even takes into account the fact that Crowder was hobbled pretty badly that series
They didn't "lose" Teague -- they got rid of him because Schroder made him redundant. Other than that, they replaced Horford with Howard. Injuries or no injuries, our roster is not any more superior than it was last season. Probably less.
Is this for real? Did you read the title of this thread? We got Al horford. They lost al horford.
Right. They also signed Dwight Howard. And we lost Evan Turner. We'll probably end up losing other rotation guys, too. Come back to talk when the free agency high wears out.
Teagues a bigger loss than Turner is. I'd imagine that's a fairly uncontroversial statement. Also Sully for Horford is a clear win and since we are dismissing injuries i suppose we have to use regular season records to compare. Both teams won 48 games since then Bostons improved more than Atlanta ergo Bostons roster is superior to Atlanta's
Did you miss the part where they VOLUNTARILY traded away Teague? As in, they didn't want him? That's how much of a loss they thought he was.
You may think that Sullinger to Horford is a greater upgrade than Horford to Howard. You're welcome to your opinion. As I said, come back when the "ohmigodwesignedhorfordz" wears out.
The Hawks had Schroeder and knew they didn't need 2 point guards especially because Teague was coming up to get paid so keeping the two of them would be an inefficient use of cap space. Instead they chose to get a lottery pick which they used to select a SF which made sense because at that point they were at risk of losing Bazemore and their other high minute wing (korver) is 34.
Just because they felt it was best for the long term to trade Teague does not mean it isn't a loss. Surely you can see that. We have cap space and we voluntarily let Turner walk does that mean we won't miss his production? No. Cmon this argument is dumb.
Horford doesn't make us a true contender but he gives us a better roster than the Hawks.
They traded away Teague because Schroder could and has fully replicated his production in the past.
We let Turner walk not because we think an erratic third year player and a 19-year old rookie can replace his production, but because his contract is the proverbial "good intention" on the road to cap hell.
One is a basketball decision. The other one is a business decision. See the difference? SMH.
Are you really claiming that Atlanta will lose nothing by trading Teague for Prince? This seems ridiculous to me.
What seems ridiculous to me is that people think that Atlanta is worse at this point than it was at the end of this season.
Yeah. It's completely ridiculous to think a team got worse just because it lost two all stars.
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I love my new sig guys.
::) Have you ever seen Prince play? He's taller, more athletic, can actually score in the post, has a surprisingly-nice step back from midrange, and, like Crowder, has a great work ethic. It's not as clear cut as you think, but I guess that I shouldn't really be surprised given how you have a tendency to just spew things without doing any research on the topic ::). What did I ever do to you?
Have you ever seen Prince play against NBA players?
He's played against a number of guys in this draft and last, iirc, but I'd have to look it up. I know that he played against RJ Hunter in the tournament in 2015 - does that count, lol?
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From page 38 to 42 in this thread is one of my favorite CB Forum memories of all time. We were all defeated. The despair of losing Al Horford had just started to settle in, after series of Woj tweets. Then BOOM Aldridge drops a bomb on Celtics nation and there was utter euphoria.
I started SCREAMING, "Yeahhhhhhh!" My 4 year old came rushing in, "Daddy what's going on?" Lol. What a good time.
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=85978.630
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From page 38 to 42 in this thread is one of my favorite CB Forum memories of all time. We were all defeated. The despair of losing Al Horford had just started to settle in, after series of Woj tweets. Then BOOM Aldridge drops a bomb on Celtics nation and there was utter euphoria.
I started SCREAMING, "Yeahhhhhhh!" My 4 year old came rushing in, "Daddy what's going on?" Lol. What a good time.
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=85978.630
Let's savor that moment. When I saw the first post about the Aldridge tweet, I forced myself to not get too excited. There were so many fake reports, smokescreens, speculations turned into facts, etc. etc. that I simply refused to believe it right away. It took a couple of pages of posts, plus other threads starting before I allowed myself to believe.
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From page 38 to 42 in this thread is one of my favorite CB Forum memories of all time. We were all defeated. The despair of losing Al Horford had just started to settle in, after series of Woj tweets. Then BOOM Aldridge drops a bomb on Celtics nation and there was utter euphoria.
I started SCREAMING, "Yeahhhhhhh!" My 4 year old came rushing in, "Daddy what's going on?" Lol. What a good time.
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=85978.630
I was exchanging messages with a friend, and we were not speaking too highly of Al, when I saw the tweet from Aldridge. I was in shock, waited for confirmation from Woj, freaked out, then took back every bad thing I said about Al. It was memorable, to say the least.
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From page 38 to 42 in this thread is one of my favorite CB Forum memories of all time. We were all defeated. The despair of losing Al Horford had just started to settle in, after series of Woj tweets. Then BOOM Aldridge drops a bomb on Celtics nation and there was utter euphoria.
I started SCREAMING, "Yeahhhhhhh!" My 4 year old came rushing in, "Daddy what's going on?" Lol. What a good time.
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=85978.630
Let's savor that moment. When I saw the first post about the Aldridge tweet, I forced myself to not get too excited. There were so many fake reports, smokescreens, speculations turned into facts, etc. etc. that I simply refused to believe it right away. It took a couple of pages of posts, plus other threads starting before I allowed myself to believe.
Agreed. This has been a good time for the Celtics and CB.
And as an added bonus, we will no longer have to listen to people drone on and on about how Ainge hates international players, and, how free agents will never come to Boston. ;D
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CBS is reporting another factor that the Hawks did not take into consideration about signing Dwight is that Al did not want to play with him. You would have thought they would have consulted him about playing with Dwight since he was a FA and these elite players little to be included in team decisions.
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/horford-didnt-want-to-wait-on-durant-didnt-want-to-play-with-dwight/
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CBS is reporting another factor that the Hawks did not take into consideration about signing Dwight is that Al did not want to play with him. You would have thought they would have consulted him about playing with Dwight since he was a FA and these elite players little to be included in team decisions.
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/horford-didnt-want-to-wait-on-durant-didnt-want-to-play-with-dwight/
Haha I was LITERALLY just posting this exact same story. TP.
That shows that Horford is smart. That's a terrible fit, and I'm sure Howard's reputation played into it, too.
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Taurean Prince is already better than Jae? Just when I thought I'd heard it all.
If we had picked him would he still be better than Jae? Or would Danny have made a terrible move since he drafted a guy who projects to be maybe as good as Jae, and hence would be redundant?
My personal favorite was the implication that it our only hope would be to play Jackson and Bentil.
Given that Bentil is an inside-out threat like Millsap, yeah, I think that that we be a good way to offset Millsap's production, and of the guys we have off of the bench, Jackson is the best playmaker of the bunch, especially since we just lost Turner. Who would you rather have running the offense? Rozier? Smart? Brown? Ahahaha ;D.
I respect that you disregard the consensus or expert opinion and completely form your own, but surely you can see why some find it absurd to look at a team with 2 all stars a 1 team all defense player, a proven contributor like Jae Crowder and recent top 10 picks Marcus Smart and Jaylen Brown and say the two guys who stand out to you are the 45 and 49th picks from a recent draft who have played exactly 0 NBA minutes.
Also I really like Demetrius Jackson but think you are overrating his ability to run an offense. he can run pick and roll, but ND had a pretty disgustingly rigid offense. Could be more the fault of the system, but still.
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Taurean Prince is already better than Jae? Just when I thought I'd heard it all.
If we had picked him would he still be better than Jae? Or would Danny have made a terrible move since he drafted a guy who projects to be maybe as good as Jae, and hence would be redundant?
My personal favorite was the implication that it our only hope would be to play Jackson and Bentil.
Given that Bentil is an inside-out threat like Millsap, yeah, I think that that we be a good way to offset Millsap's production, and of the guys we have off of the bench, Jackson is the best playmaker of the bunch, especially since we just lost Turner. Who would you rather have running the offense? Rozier? Smart? Brown? Ahahaha ;D.
I respect that you disregard the consensus or expert opinion and completely form your own, but surely you can see why some find it absurd to look at a team with 2 all stars a 1 team all defense player, a proven contributor like Jae Crowder and recent top 10 picks Marcus Smart and Jaylen Brown and say the two guys who stand out to you are the 45 and 49th picks from a recent draft who have played exactly 0 NBA minutes.
Also I really like Demetrius Jackson but think you are overrating his ability to run an offense. he can run pick and roll, but ND had a pretty disgustingly rigid offense. Could be more the fault of the system, but still.
Sure, even though Jackson was taken at 45 and Bentil at 51, as opposed to 49, and as I said in my thread entitled 'Jackson or Rozier', I give Ainge huge props for getting them at those spots, even though they were practically no brainers, imo, but still, I give Danny tremendous credit for that. Those guys are first round talents, and I was surprised that the Bulls didn't take Jackson, especially after they had just traded Rose. I don't know how good either of these guys will become, but I like what I see, and as of right now, just based off of what they did in college, I'd say that we got better players at 45 and 51 than we did with any of our first rounders, but I'm probably wrong and I really hope that that will not be the case regarding Jaylen Brown. I really want him to shine, tomorrow, and the same for all of our guys :). Well, except for James Young, lol ;D.
-
Breakdown of Al Horford's 4-year deal:
2016-17: $26,540,100
2017-18: $27,734,405
2018-19: $28,928,709
2019-20: $30,123,014 (player option)
There is no way he is not going to pick up that 4th year but it is a player option year.
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Taurean Prince is already better than Jae? Just when I thought I'd heard it all.
If we had picked him would he still be better than Jae? Or would Danny have made a terrible move since he drafted a guy who projects to be maybe as good as Jae, and hence would be redundant?
My personal favorite was the implication that it our only hope would be to play Jackson and Bentil.
Given that Bentil is an inside-out threat like Millsap, yeah, I think that that we be a good way to offset Millsap's production, and of the guys we have off of the bench, Jackson is the best playmaker of the bunch, especially since we just lost Turner. Who would you rather have running the offense? Rozier? Smart? Brown? Ahahaha ;D.
I respect that you disregard the consensus or expert opinion and completely form your own, but surely you can see why some find it absurd to look at a team with 2 all stars a 1 team all defense player, a proven contributor like Jae Crowder and recent top 10 picks Marcus Smart and Jaylen Brown and say the two guys who stand out to you are the 45 and 49th picks from a recent draft who have played exactly 0 NBA minutes.
Also I really like Demetrius Jackson but think you are overrating his ability to run an offense. he can run pick and roll, but ND had a pretty disgustingly rigid offense. Could be more the fault of the system, but still.
Sure, even though Jackson was taken at 45 and Bentil at 51, as opposed to 49, and as I said in my thread entitled 'Jackson or Rozier', I give Ainge huge props for getting them at those spots, even though they were practically no brainers, imo, but still, I give Danny tremendous credit for that. Those guys are first round talents, and I was surprised that the Bulls didn't take Jackson, especially after they had just traded Rose. I don't know how good either of these guys will become, but I like what I see, and as of right now, just based off of what they did in college, I'd say that we got better players at 45 and 51 than we did with any of our first rounders, but I'm probably wrong and I really hope that that will not be the case regarding Jaylen Brown. I really want him to shine, tomorrow, and the same for all of our guys :). Well, except for James Young, lol ;D.
It's one thing to like those guys, but it's another thing to state that they are already better than every player already on the team. Honestly, that's silly and bizarre. You suggested trading IT and Olynyk for Poetl. I don't mean to be mean, but you have to be ready to take some sht over those comments and not to get offended by it.
-
Taurean Prince is already better than Jae? Just when I thought I'd heard it all.
If we had picked him would he still be better than Jae? Or would Danny have made a terrible move since he drafted a guy who projects to be maybe as good as Jae, and hence would be redundant?
My personal favorite was the implication that it our only hope would be to play Jackson and Bentil.
Given that Bentil is an inside-out threat like Millsap, yeah, I think that that we be a good way to offset Millsap's production, and of the guys we have off of the bench, Jackson is the best playmaker of the bunch, especially since we just lost Turner. Who would you rather have running the offense? Rozier? Smart? Brown? Ahahaha ;D.
I respect that you disregard the consensus or expert opinion and completely form your own, but surely you can see why some find it absurd to look at a team with 2 all stars a 1 team all defense player, a proven contributor like Jae Crowder and recent top 10 picks Marcus Smart and Jaylen Brown and say the two guys who stand out to you are the 45 and 49th picks from a recent draft who have played exactly 0 NBA minutes.
Also I really like Demetrius Jackson but think you are overrating his ability to run an offense. he can run pick and roll, but ND had a pretty disgustingly rigid offense. Could be more the fault of the system, but still.
Sure, even though Jackson was taken at 45 and Bentil at 51, as opposed to 49, and as I said in my thread entitled 'Jackson or Rozier', I give Ainge huge props for getting them at those spots, even though they were practically no brainers, imo, but still, I give Danny tremendous credit for that. Those guys are first round talents, and I was surprised that the Bulls didn't take Jackson, especially after they had just traded Rose. I don't know how good either of these guys will become, but I like what I see, and as of right now, just based off of what they did in college, I'd say that we got better players at 45 and 51 than we did with any of our first rounders, but I'm probably wrong and I really hope that that will not be the case regarding Jaylen Brown. I really want him to shine, tomorrow, and the same for all of our guys :). Well, except for James Young, lol ;D.
It's one thing to like those guys, but it's another thing to state that they are already better than every player already on the team. Honestly, that's silly and bizarre. You suggested trading IT and Olynyk for Poetl. I don't mean to be mean, but you have to be ready to take some sht over those comments and not to get offended by it.
Hmm, I never actually said that, but whatever, and you're missing the point, entirely, anyway.
-
Taurean Prince is already better than Jae? Just when I thought I'd heard it all.
If we had picked him would he still be better than Jae? Or would Danny have made a terrible move since he drafted a guy who projects to be maybe as good as Jae, and hence would be redundant?
My personal favorite was the implication that it our only hope would be to play Jackson and Bentil.
Given that Bentil is an inside-out threat like Millsap, yeah, I think that that we be a good way to offset Millsap's production, and of the guys we have off of the bench, Jackson is the best playmaker of the bunch, especially since we just lost Turner. Who would you rather have running the offense? Rozier? Smart? Brown? Ahahaha ;D.
I respect that you disregard the consensus or expert opinion and completely form your own, but surely you can see why some find it absurd to look at a team with 2 all stars a 1 team all defense player, a proven contributor like Jae Crowder and recent top 10 picks Marcus Smart and Jaylen Brown and say the two guys who stand out to you are the 45 and 49th picks from a recent draft who have played exactly 0 NBA minutes.
Also I really like Demetrius Jackson but think you are overrating his ability to run an offense. he can run pick and roll, but ND had a pretty disgustingly rigid offense. Could be more the fault of the system, but still.
Sure, even though Jackson was taken at 45 and Bentil at 51, as opposed to 49, and as I said in my thread entitled 'Jackson or Rozier', I give Ainge huge props for getting them at those spots, even though they were practically no brainers, imo, but still, I give Danny tremendous credit for that. Those guys are first round talents, and I was surprised that the Bulls didn't take Jackson, especially after they had just traded Rose. I don't know how good either of these guys will become, but I like what I see, and as of right now, just based off of what they did in college, I'd say that we got better players at 45 and 51 than we did with any of our first rounders, but I'm probably wrong and I really hope that that will not be the case regarding Jaylen Brown. I really want him to shine, tomorrow, and the same for all of our guys :). Well, except for James Young, lol ;D.
It's one thing to like those guys, but it's another thing to state that they are already better than every player already on the team. Honestly, that's silly and bizarre. You suggested trading IT and Olynyk for Poetl. I don't mean to be mean, but you have to be ready to take some sht over those comments and not to get offended by it.
Hmm, I never actually said that, but whatever, and you're missing the point, entirely, anyway.
You said that Jackson is our best point guard right now and that Bentil is better than Crowder right now. No wonder so many people are arguing with you on this thread.
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Taurean Prince is already better than Jae? Just when I thought I'd heard it all.
If we had picked him would he still be better than Jae? Or would Danny have made a terrible move since he drafted a guy who projects to be maybe as good as Jae, and hence would be redundant?
My personal favorite was the implication that it our only hope would be to play Jackson and Bentil.
Given that Bentil is an inside-out threat like Millsap, yeah, I think that that we be a good way to offset Millsap's production, and of the guys we have off of the bench, Jackson is the best playmaker of the bunch, especially since we just lost Turner. Who would you rather have running the offense? Rozier? Smart? Brown? Ahahaha ;D.
I respect that you disregard the consensus or expert opinion and completely form your own, but surely you can see why some find it absurd to look at a team with 2 all stars a 1 team all defense player, a proven contributor like Jae Crowder and recent top 10 picks Marcus Smart and Jaylen Brown and say the two guys who stand out to you are the 45 and 49th picks from a recent draft who have played exactly 0 NBA minutes.
Also I really like Demetrius Jackson but think you are overrating his ability to run an offense. he can run pick and roll, but ND had a pretty disgustingly rigid offense. Could be more the fault of the system, but still.
Sure, even though Jackson was taken at 45 and Bentil at 51, as opposed to 49, and as I said in my thread entitled 'Jackson or Rozier', I give Ainge huge props for getting them at those spots, even though they were practically no brainers, imo, but still, I give Danny tremendous credit for that. Those guys are first round talents, and I was surprised that the Bulls didn't take Jackson, especially after they had just traded Rose. I don't know how good either of these guys will become, but I like what I see, and as of right now, just based off of what they did in college, I'd say that we got better players at 45 and 51 than we did with any of our first rounders, but I'm probably wrong and I really hope that that will not be the case regarding Jaylen Brown. I really want him to shine, tomorrow, and the same for all of our guys :). Well, except for James Young, lol ;D.
It's one thing to like those guys, but it's another thing to state that they are already better than every player already on the team. Honestly, that's silly and bizarre. You suggested trading IT and Olynyk for Poetl. I don't mean to be mean, but you have to be ready to take some sht over those comments and not to get offended by it.
Hmm, I never actually said that, but whatever, and you're missing the point, entirely, anyway.
You said that Jackson is our best point guard right now and that Bentil is better than Crowder right now. No wonder so many people are arguing with you on this thread.
Sigh. If you're going to attack me, can you at least bother to get your facts straight? I said that Taurean Prince - not Ben Bentil - was, IMO, already better than Crowder for the reasons that I stated. I didn't just say that Prince was better than Jae like it was a fact at all, that's what the 'imo' is for ;). Is it wrong to have an opinion, now? Geesh.
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Taurean Prince is already better than Jae? Just when I thought I'd heard it all.
If we had picked him would he still be better than Jae? Or would Danny have made a terrible move since he drafted a guy who projects to be maybe as good as Jae, and hence would be redundant?
My personal favorite was the implication that it our only hope would be to play Jackson and Bentil.
Given that Bentil is an inside-out threat like Millsap, yeah, I think that that we be a good way to offset Millsap's production, and of the guys we have off of the bench, Jackson is the best playmaker of the bunch, especially since we just lost Turner. Who would you rather have running the offense? Rozier? Smart? Brown? Ahahaha ;D.
I respect that you disregard the consensus or expert opinion and completely form your own, but surely you can see why some find it absurd to look at a team with 2 all stars a 1 team all defense player, a proven contributor like Jae Crowder and recent top 10 picks Marcus Smart and Jaylen Brown and say the two guys who stand out to you are the 45 and 49th picks from a recent draft who have played exactly 0 NBA minutes.
Also I really like Demetrius Jackson but think you are overrating his ability to run an offense. he can run pick and roll, but ND had a pretty disgustingly rigid offense. Could be more the fault of the system, but still.
Sure, even though Jackson was taken at 45 and Bentil at 51, as opposed to 49, and as I said in my thread entitled 'Jackson or Rozier', I give Ainge huge props for getting them at those spots, even though they were practically no brainers, imo, but still, I give Danny tremendous credit for that. Those guys are first round talents, and I was surprised that the Bulls didn't take Jackson, especially after they had just traded Rose. I don't know how good either of these guys will become, but I like what I see, and as of right now, just based off of what they did in college, I'd say that we got better players at 45 and 51 than we did with any of our first rounders, but I'm probably wrong and I really hope that that will not be the case regarding Jaylen Brown. I really want him to shine, tomorrow, and the same for all of our guys :). Well, except for James Young, lol ;D.
It's one thing to like those guys, but it's another thing to state that they are already better than every player already on the team. Honestly, that's silly and bizarre. You suggested trading IT and Olynyk for Poetl. I don't mean to be mean, but you have to be ready to take some sht over those comments and not to get offended by it.
Hmm, I never actually said that, but whatever, and you're missing the point, entirely, anyway.
You said that Jackson is our best point guard right now and that Bentil is better than Crowder right now. No wonder so many people are arguing with you on this thread.
Sigh. If you're going to attack me, can you at least bother to get your facts straight? I said that Taurean Prince - not Ben Bentil - was, IMO, already better than Crowder for the reasons that I stated. I didn't just say that Prince was better than Jae like it was a fact at all, that's what the 'imo' is for ;). Is it wrong to have an opinion, now? Geesh.
It's wrong to have the wrong opinion.
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Breakdown of Al Horford's 4-year deal:
2016-17: $26,540,100
2017-18: $27,734,405
2018-19: $28,928,709
2019-20: $30,123,014 (player option)
There is no way he is not going to pick up that 4th year but it is a player option year.
How do you know he's gonna pick up that option? Just saying. With the cap exploding more next year, and even with a leveling off, Stevens is REALLY good at getting the most out of his players.
I firmly believe he's going to get the absolute most out of Horford in the next couple years. I think it's very possible he has the best years of his career this year and next. If that happens and someone will still give him max money (on shorter years) he could deff opt out.
Howard just opted out of 24 Million for less than that. If players think they have a chance to get paid more, they very well could try.
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Taurean Prince is already better than Jae? Just when I thought I'd heard it all.
If we had picked him would he still be better than Jae? Or would Danny have made a terrible move since he drafted a guy who projects to be maybe as good as Jae, and hence would be redundant?
My personal favorite was the implication that it our only hope would be to play Jackson and Bentil.
Given that Bentil is an inside-out threat like Millsap, yeah, I think that that we be a good way to offset Millsap's production, and of the guys we have off of the bench, Jackson is the best playmaker of the bunch, especially since we just lost Turner. Who would you rather have running the offense? Rozier? Smart? Brown? Ahahaha ;D.
I respect that you disregard the consensus or expert opinion and completely form your own, but surely you can see why some find it absurd to look at a team with 2 all stars a 1 team all defense player, a proven contributor like Jae Crowder and recent top 10 picks Marcus Smart and Jaylen Brown and say the two guys who stand out to you are the 45 and 49th picks from a recent draft who have played exactly 0 NBA minutes.
Also I really like Demetrius Jackson but think you are overrating his ability to run an offense. he can run pick and roll, but ND had a pretty disgustingly rigid offense. Could be more the fault of the system, but still.
Sure, even though Jackson was taken at 45 and Bentil at 51, as opposed to 49, and as I said in my thread entitled 'Jackson or Rozier', I give Ainge huge props for getting them at those spots, even though they were practically no brainers, imo, but still, I give Danny tremendous credit for that. Those guys are first round talents, and I was surprised that the Bulls didn't take Jackson, especially after they had just traded Rose. I don't know how good either of these guys will become, but I like what I see, and as of right now, just based off of what they did in college, I'd say that we got better players at 45 and 51 than we did with any of our first rounders, but I'm probably wrong and I really hope that that will not be the case regarding Jaylen Brown. I really want him to shine, tomorrow, and the same for all of our guys :). Well, except for James Young, lol ;D.
It's one thing to like those guys, but it's another thing to state that they are already better than every player already on the team. Honestly, that's silly and bizarre. You suggested trading IT and Olynyk for Poetl. I don't mean to be mean, but you have to be ready to take some sht over those comments and not to get offended by it.
Hmm, I never actually said that, but whatever, and you're missing the point, entirely, anyway.
You said that Jackson is our best point guard right now and that Bentil is better than Crowder right now. No wonder so many people are arguing with you on this thread.
Sigh. If you're going to attack me, can you at least bother to get your facts straight? I said that Taurean Prince - not Ben Bentil - was, IMO, already better than Crowder for the reasons that I stated. I didn't just say that Prince was better than Jae like it was a fact at all, that's what the 'imo' is for ;). Is it wrong to have an opinion, now? Geesh.
It's wrong to have the wrong opinion.
Lol, well said - TP.
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Taurean Prince is already better than Jae? Just when I thought I'd heard it all.
If we had picked him would he still be better than Jae? Or would Danny have made a terrible move since he drafted a guy who projects to be maybe as good as Jae, and hence would be redundant?
My personal favorite was the implication that it our only hope would be to play Jackson and Bentil.
Given that Bentil is an inside-out threat like Millsap, yeah, I think that that we be a good way to offset Millsap's production, and of the guys we have off of the bench, Jackson is the best playmaker of the bunch, especially since we just lost Turner. Who would you rather have running the offense? Rozier? Smart? Brown? Ahahaha ;D.
I respect that you disregard the consensus or expert opinion and completely form your own, but surely you can see why some find it absurd to look at a team with 2 all stars a 1 team all defense player, a proven contributor like Jae Crowder and recent top 10 picks Marcus Smart and Jaylen Brown and say the two guys who stand out to you are the 45 and 49th picks from a recent draft who have played exactly 0 NBA minutes.
Also I really like Demetrius Jackson but think you are overrating his ability to run an offense. he can run pick and roll, but ND had a pretty disgustingly rigid offense. Could be more the fault of the system, but still.
Sure, even though Jackson was taken at 45 and Bentil at 51, as opposed to 49, and as I said in my thread entitled 'Jackson or Rozier', I give Ainge huge props for getting them at those spots, even though they were practically no brainers, imo, but still, I give Danny tremendous credit for that. Those guys are first round talents, and I was surprised that the Bulls didn't take Jackson, especially after they had just traded Rose. I don't know how good either of these guys will become, but I like what I see, and as of right now, just based off of what they did in college, I'd say that we got better players at 45 and 51 than we did with any of our first rounders, but I'm probably wrong and I really hope that that will not be the case regarding Jaylen Brown. I really want him to shine, tomorrow, and the same for all of our guys :). Well, except for James Young, lol ;D.
It's one thing to like those guys, but it's another thing to state that they are already better than every player already on the team. Honestly, that's silly and bizarre. You suggested trading IT and Olynyk for Poetl. I don't mean to be mean, but you have to be ready to take some sht over those comments and not to get offended by it.
Hmm, I never actually said that, but whatever, and you're missing the point, entirely, anyway.
You said that Jackson is our best point guard right now and that Bentil is better than Crowder right now. No wonder so many people are arguing with you on this thread.
Sigh. If you're going to attack me, can you at least get your facts straight. I said that Taurean Prince - not Ben Bentil - was, IMO, already better than Crowder for the reasons that I stated. I didn't just say that Prince was better than Jae like it was a fact at all, that's what the 'imo' is for ;). Is it wrong to have an opinion, now? Geesh.
It's not wrong to have an opinion, but when your opinions are so far out there, you can't be so argumentative and have such thin skin. I'm not going to look up your comments about Bentil, but you admit that you said that Jackson is already better than our NBA all star PG. And that you said we should trade IT and Olynyk for Poetl. Hey, if you just laughed about it, fine, but you have been defensive and argumentative with a bunch of people here.
To be fair, you bring a lot humor here which I appreciate.
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Taurean Prince is already better than Jae? Just when I thought I'd heard it all.
If we had picked him would he still be better than Jae? Or would Danny have made a terrible move since he drafted a guy who projects to be maybe as good as Jae, and hence would be redundant?
My personal favorite was the implication that it our only hope would be to play Jackson and Bentil.
Given that Bentil is an inside-out threat like Millsap, yeah, I think that that we be a good way to offset Millsap's production, and of the guys we have off of the bench, Jackson is the best playmaker of the bunch, especially since we just lost Turner. Who would you rather have running the offense? Rozier? Smart? Brown? Ahahaha ;D.
I respect that you disregard the consensus or expert opinion and completely form your own, but surely you can see why some find it absurd to look at a team with 2 all stars a 1 team all defense player, a proven contributor like Jae Crowder and recent top 10 picks Marcus Smart and Jaylen Brown and say the two guys who stand out to you are the 45 and 49th picks from a recent draft who have played exactly 0 NBA minutes.
Also I really like Demetrius Jackson but think you are overrating his ability to run an offense. he can run pick and roll, but ND had a pretty disgustingly rigid offense. Could be more the fault of the system, but still.
Sure, even though Jackson was taken at 45 and Bentil at 51, as opposed to 49, and as I said in my thread entitled 'Jackson or Rozier', I give Ainge huge props for getting them at those spots, even though they were practically no brainers, imo, but still, I give Danny tremendous credit for that. Those guys are first round talents, and I was surprised that the Bulls didn't take Jackson, especially after they had just traded Rose. I don't know how good either of these guys will become, but I like what I see, and as of right now, just based off of what they did in college, I'd say that we got better players at 45 and 51 than we did with any of our first rounders, but I'm probably wrong and I really hope that that will not be the case regarding Jaylen Brown. I really want him to shine, tomorrow, and the same for all of our guys :). Well, except for James Young, lol ;D.
It's one thing to like those guys, but it's another thing to state that they are already better than every player already on the team. Honestly, that's silly and bizarre. You suggested trading IT and Olynyk for Poetl. I don't mean to be mean, but you have to be ready to take some sht over those comments and not to get offended by it.
Hmm, I never actually said that, but whatever, and you're missing the point, entirely, anyway.
You said that Jackson is our best point guard right now and that Bentil is better than Crowder right now. No wonder so many people are arguing with you on this thread.
Sigh. If you're going to attack me, can you at least get your facts straight. I said that Taurean Prince - not Ben Bentil - was, IMO, already better than Crowder for the reasons that I stated. I didn't just say that Prince was better than Jae like it was a fact at all, that's what the 'imo' is for ;). Is it wrong to have an opinion, now? Geesh.
It's not wrong to have an opinion, but when your opinions are so far out there, you can't be so argumentative and have such thin skin. I'm not going to look up your comments about Bentil, but at least you admit that you said that Jackson is already better than our NBA all star PG. Or that you said we should trade IT and Olynyk for Poetl. Hey, if you just laughed about it, fine, but you have been defensive and argumentative with a bunch of people here.
To be fair, you generally bring humor here which I appreciate.
Yeah, because they were attacking me as a person as opposed to just arguing with what I had posted. I don't see eye to eye with everyone all the time, either, but I don't go around mocking them by putting something that they said in my sig and then announcing to the forum about how awesome it is ::). That's the difference.
And yes, I did say both of those things in regards to the trade for Poeltl and about Jackson being better than our point guards, but did you see my reasons for saying that? I didn't just state it as a fact (and I was actually responding to a point made by crimson, so I didn't just put it out there in the first post of the thread, or anything) - I looked at Jackson's strengths as opposed to IT, Smart, and Rozier, who isn't really a point guard, although neither is Smart, really, and applied them accordingly. I guess the way that I look at it is that Jackson has all of the best attributes of those players and then some, but again, that's just my opinion. Here's what I said, for the record -
To be completely honest, I don't want to choose - I want both.
I think Jackson and Rozier both have a higher upside then Marcus Smart, and I see a Jackson/Rozier backcourt being more dangerous then any backcourt with Smart in it.
That's no disrespect to Smart - love the kid. Just that I really like Jackson and Rozier - they are both explosive athletes who can handle the ball, score, pass, shoot, and get to the basket...and they are both tough kids who play with a lot of passion.
I'm trying to imagine Jackson, Rozier and Brown coming off the bench this year as our backups at the PG / SG / SF spot. That could the most athletic bench in the entire NBA.
Oh without a doubt, but especially Jackson, imo. In looking at his stats and watching some youtube clips, lol ;D, I think he's already the best point guard on our roster, including IT, and I'll tell you why. He's a much better defender, ball handler, shooter, passer, and can operate off the ball much more successfully, than Thomas, he has superior athleticism, quickness, and decision making to Smart, and he plays with fire but also under control and knows who he is as a player, unlike Rozier. Here's his 24 point, 4 assist performance at Duke -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmdXw7OJjZs
Tell me, because I know that I'm probably being ridiculous, here, but does anyone else see Jackson as Tim Hardaway, albeit without the signature crossover but the strength, quickness, and athleticism, not to mention the similar shooting form, meets Eric Bledsoe? Yeah, it's probably just me, lol ;D.
Yeah, I get it - I'm probably wrong, as usual, but at least I made fun of myself in the process as opposed to just laying my opinion out there like it's an indisputable fact or something because I know everything. Geesh.
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Breakdown of Al Horford's 4-year deal:
2016-17: $26,540,100
2017-18: $27,734,405
2018-19: $28,928,709
2019-20: $30,123,014 (player option)
There is no way he is not going to pick up that 4th year but it is a player option year.
How do you know he's gonna pick up that option? Just saying. With the cap exploding more next year, and even with a leveling off, Stevens is REALLY good at getting the most out of his players.
I firmly believe he's going to get the absolute most out of Horford in the next couple years. I think it's very possible he has the best years of his career this year and next. If that happens and someone will still give him max money (on shorter years) he could deff opt out.
Howard just opted out of 24 Million for less than that. If players think they have a chance to get paid more, they very well could try.
First off Dwight is 30 so opting out for one last contract was the right thing to do for him. Adding to that things were not working out for him in Houston and he just wanted out.
Als numbers have slightly decreased his last 2 yrs
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/horfoal01.html
And its possible he gets a bump playing under Stevens but I'm inclined to believe they slightly decrease over the life of his contract. He may opt out but that will be for less money per year. So if he opts out for say 22mil a yr for 3 yrs, you dont think he could get close to that if he just waited for his contract to end ? He may have to settle for a 2yr deal but he still comes out ahead if he plays out his contract.
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Taurean Prince is already better than Jae? Just when I thought I'd heard it all.
If we had picked him would he still be better than Jae? Or would Danny have made a terrible move since he drafted a guy who projects to be maybe as good as Jae, and hence would be redundant?
My personal favorite was the implication that it our only hope would be to play Jackson and Bentil.
Given that Bentil is an inside-out threat like Millsap, yeah, I think that that we be a good way to offset Millsap's production, and of the guys we have off of the bench, Jackson is the best playmaker of the bunch, especially since we just lost Turner. Who would you rather have running the offense? Rozier? Smart? Brown? Ahahaha ;D.
I respect that you disregard the consensus or expert opinion and completely form your own, but surely you can see why some find it absurd to look at a team with 2 all stars a 1 team all defense player, a proven contributor like Jae Crowder and recent top 10 picks Marcus Smart and Jaylen Brown and say the two guys who stand out to you are the 45 and 49th picks from a recent draft who have played exactly 0 NBA minutes.
Also I really like Demetrius Jackson but think you are overrating his ability to run an offense. he can run pick and roll, but ND had a pretty disgustingly rigid offense. Could be more the fault of the system, but still.
Sure, even though Jackson was taken at 45 and Bentil at 51, as opposed to 49, and as I said in my thread entitled 'Jackson or Rozier', I give Ainge huge props for getting them at those spots, even though they were practically no brainers, imo, but still, I give Danny tremendous credit for that. Those guys are first round talents, and I was surprised that the Bulls didn't take Jackson, especially after they had just traded Rose. I don't know how good either of these guys will become, but I like what I see, and as of right now, just based off of what they did in college, I'd say that we got better players at 45 and 51 than we did with any of our first rounders, but I'm probably wrong and I really hope that that will not be the case regarding Jaylen Brown. I really want him to shine, tomorrow, and the same for all of our guys :). Well, except for James Young, lol ;D.
It's one thing to like those guys, but it's another thing to state that they are already better than every player already on the team. Honestly, that's silly and bizarre. You suggested trading IT and Olynyk for Poetl. I don't mean to be mean, but you have to be ready to take some sht over those comments and not to get offended by it.
Hmm, I never actually said that, but whatever, and you're missing the point, entirely, anyway.
You said that Jackson is our best point guard right now and that Bentil is better than Crowder right now. No wonder so many people are arguing with you on this thread.
Sigh. If you're going to attack me, can you at least get your facts straight. I said that Taurean Prince - not Ben Bentil - was, IMO, already better than Crowder for the reasons that I stated. I didn't just say that Prince was better than Jae like it was a fact at all, that's what the 'imo' is for ;). Is it wrong to have an opinion, now? Geesh.
It's not wrong to have an opinion, but when your opinions are so far out there, you can't be so argumentative and have such thin skin. I'm not going to look up your comments about Bentil, but at least you admit that you said that Jackson is already better than our NBA all star PG. Or that you said we should trade IT and Olynyk for Poetl. Hey, if you just laughed about it, fine, but you have been defensive and argumentative with a bunch of people here.
To be fair, you generally bring humor here which I appreciate.
Yeah, because they were attacking me as a person as opposed to just arguing with what I had posted. I don't see eye to eye with everyone all the time, either, but I don't go around mocking them by putting something that they said in my sig and then announcing to the forum about how awesome it is ::). That's the difference.
And yes, I did say both of those things in regards to the trade for Poeltl and about Jackson being better than our point guards, but did you see my reasons for saying that? I didn't just state it as a fact (and I was actually responding to a point made by crimson, so I didn't just put it out there in the first post of the thread, or anything) - I looked at Jackson's strengths as opposed to IT, Smart, and Rozier, who isn't really a point guard, although neither is Smart, really, and applied them accordingly. I guess the way that I look at it is that Jackson has all of the best attributes of those players and then some, but again, that's just my opinion. Here's what I said, for the record -
To be completely honest, I don't want to choose - I want both.
I think Jackson and Rozier both have a higher upside then Marcus Smart, and I see a Jackson/Rozier backcourt being more dangerous then any backcourt with Smart in it.
That's no disrespect to Smart - love the kid. Just that I really like Jackson and Rozier - they are both explosive athletes who can handle the ball, score, pass, shoot, and get to the basket...and they are both tough kids who play with a lot of passion.
I'm trying to imagine Jackson, Rozier and Brown coming off the bench this year as our backups at the PG / SG / SF spot. That could the most athletic bench in the entire NBA.
Oh without a doubt, but especially Jackson, imo. In looking at his stats and watching some youtube clips, lol ;D, I think he's already the best point guard on our roster, including IT, and I'll tell you why. He's a much better defender, ball handler, shooter, passer, and can operate off the ball much more successfully, than Thomas, he has superior athleticism, quickness, and decision making to Smart, and he plays with fire but also under control and knows who he is as a player, unlike Rozier. Here's his 24 point, 4 assist performance at Duke -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmdXw7OJjZs
Tell me, because I know that I'm probably being ridiculous, here, but does anyone else see Jackson as Tim Hardaway, albeit without the signature crossover but the strength, quickness, and athleticism, not to mention the similar shooting form, meets Eric Bledsoe? Yeah, it's probably just me, lol ;D.
Yeah, I get it - I'm probably wrong, as usual, but at least I made fun of myself in the process as opposed to just laying my opinion out there like it's an indisputable fact or something because I know everything. Geesh.
OK, honestly I get a little defensive of the team especially on a holiday weekend when I've already had a few. I already regret butting my nose into this. Truce? And no, I don't see Tim Hardaway in Jackson. I hope Jackson can catch on as a third string PG.
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Just looked up Horford's stats and still don't understand why he's a max player.
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Just looked up Horford's stats and still don't understand why he's a max player.
(http://i.imgur.com/iWKad22.jpg)
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Just looked up Horford's stats and still don't understand why he's a max player.
(http://i.imgur.com/iWKad22.jpg)
Care to elaborate?
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Just looked up Horford's stats and still don't understand why he's a max player.
Dude is a four-time all-star who just developed a three point game recently, which is especially remarkable considering he's a center. His stellar defense is hard to quantify with stats.
Mozgov is making eight-digits per year now, so of course Horford is a max guy.
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Care to elaborate?
Counting stats are not everything.
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Taurean Prince is already better than Jae? Just when I thought I'd heard it all.
If we had picked him would he still be better than Jae? Or would Danny have made a terrible move since he drafted a guy who projects to be maybe as good as Jae, and hence would be redundant?
My personal favorite was the implication that it our only hope would be to play Jackson and Bentil.
Given that Bentil is an inside-out threat like Millsap, yeah, I think that that we be a good way to offset Millsap's production, and of the guys we have off of the bench, Jackson is the best playmaker of the bunch, especially since we just lost Turner. Who would you rather have running the offense? Rozier? Smart? Brown? Ahahaha ;D.
I respect that you disregard the consensus or expert opinion and completely form your own, but surely you can see why some find it absurd to look at a team with 2 all stars a 1 team all defense player, a proven contributor like Jae Crowder and recent top 10 picks Marcus Smart and Jaylen Brown and say the two guys who stand out to you are the 45 and 49th picks from a recent draft who have played exactly 0 NBA minutes.
Also I really like Demetrius Jackson but think you are overrating his ability to run an offense. he can run pick and roll, but ND had a pretty disgustingly rigid offense. Could be more the fault of the system, but still.
Sure, even though Jackson was taken at 45 and Bentil at 51, as opposed to 49, and as I said in my thread entitled 'Jackson or Rozier', I give Ainge huge props for getting them at those spots, even though they were practically no brainers, imo, but still, I give Danny tremendous credit for that. Those guys are first round talents, and I was surprised that the Bulls didn't take Jackson, especially after they had just traded Rose. I don't know how good either of these guys will become, but I like what I see, and as of right now, just based off of what they did in college, I'd say that we got better players at 45 and 51 than we did with any of our first rounders, but I'm probably wrong and I really hope that that will not be the case regarding Jaylen Brown. I really want him to shine, tomorrow, and the same for all of our guys :). Well, except for James Young, lol ;D.
It's one thing to like those guys, but it's another thing to state that they are already better than every player already on the team. Honestly, that's silly and bizarre. You suggested trading IT and Olynyk for Poetl. I don't mean to be mean, but you have to be ready to take some sht over those comments and not to get offended by it.
Hmm, I never actually said that, but whatever, and you're missing the point, entirely, anyway.
You said that Jackson is our best point guard right now and that Bentil is better than Crowder right now. No wonder so many people are arguing with you on this thread.
Sigh. If you're going to attack me, can you at least get your facts straight. I said that Taurean Prince - not Ben Bentil - was, IMO, already better than Crowder for the reasons that I stated. I didn't just say that Prince was better than Jae like it was a fact at all, that's what the 'imo' is for ;). Is it wrong to have an opinion, now? Geesh.
It's not wrong to have an opinion, but when your opinions are so far out there, you can't be so argumentative and have such thin skin. I'm not going to look up your comments about Bentil, but at least you admit that you said that Jackson is already better than our NBA all star PG. Or that you said we should trade IT and Olynyk for Poetl. Hey, if you just laughed about it, fine, but you have been defensive and argumentative with a bunch of people here.
To be fair, you generally bring humor here which I appreciate.
Yeah, because they were attacking me as a person as opposed to just arguing with what I had posted. I don't see eye to eye with everyone all the time, either, but I don't go around mocking them by putting something that they said in my sig and then announcing to the forum about how awesome it is ::). That's the difference.
And yes, I did say both of those things in regards to the trade for Poeltl and about Jackson being better than our point guards, but did you see my reasons for saying that? I didn't just state it as a fact (and I was actually responding to a point made by crimson, so I didn't just put it out there in the first post of the thread, or anything) - I looked at Jackson's strengths as opposed to IT, Smart, and Rozier, who isn't really a point guard, although neither is Smart, really, and applied them accordingly. I guess the way that I look at it is that Jackson has all of the best attributes of those players and then some, but again, that's just my opinion. Here's what I said, for the record -
To be completely honest, I don't want to choose - I want both.
I think Jackson and Rozier both have a higher upside then Marcus Smart, and I see a Jackson/Rozier backcourt being more dangerous then any backcourt with Smart in it.
That's no disrespect to Smart - love the kid. Just that I really like Jackson and Rozier - they are both explosive athletes who can handle the ball, score, pass, shoot, and get to the basket...and they are both tough kids who play with a lot of passion.
I'm trying to imagine Jackson, Rozier and Brown coming off the bench this year as our backups at the PG / SG / SF spot. That could the most athletic bench in the entire NBA.
Oh without a doubt, but especially Jackson, imo. In looking at his stats and watching some youtube clips, lol ;D, I think he's already the best point guard on our roster, including IT, and I'll tell you why. He's a much better defender, ball handler, shooter, passer, and can operate off the ball much more successfully, than Thomas, he has superior athleticism, quickness, and decision making to Smart, and he plays with fire but also under control and knows who he is as a player, unlike Rozier. Here's his 24 point, 4 assist performance at Duke -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmdXw7OJjZs
Tell me, because I know that I'm probably being ridiculous, here, but does anyone else see Jackson as Tim Hardaway, albeit without the signature crossover but the strength, quickness, and athleticism, not to mention the similar shooting form, meets Eric Bledsoe? Yeah, it's probably just me, lol ;D.
Yeah, I get it - I'm probably wrong, as usual, but at least I made fun of myself in the process as opposed to just laying my opinion out there like it's an indisputable fact or something because I know everything. Geesh.
OK, honestly I get a little defensive of the team especially on a holiday weekend when I've already had a few. I already regret butting my nose into this. Truce? And no, I don't see Tim Hardaway in Jackson. I hope Jackson can catch on as a third string PG.
Lol, it's fine, man, don't worry about it :). Hopefully Jackson will surprise, although, again, I was wondering if anyone saw him as a Hardaway-Bledsoe mashup, haha, but yeah - relax. I wasn't fighting with you to begin with, anyway, lol.
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Has anyone seen any Scalabrine comments on the Horford signing?
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Just looked up Horford's stats and still don't understand why he's a max player.
Dude is a four-time all-star who just developed a three point game recently, which is especially remarkable considering he's a center. His stellar defense is hard to quantify with stats.
Mozgov is making eight-digits per year now, so of course Horford is a max guy.
Being an all-star center in a league void of Centers doesn't impress me.
His production is that of a high level role player.
I'm just scared of that contract turning into a bad one in a couple of years.
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Taurean Prince is already better than Jae? Just when I thought I'd heard it all.
If we had picked him would he still be better than Jae? Or would Danny have made a terrible move since he drafted a guy who projects to be maybe as good as Jae, and hence would be redundant?
My personal favorite was the implication that it our only hope would be to play Jackson and Bentil.
Given that Bentil is an inside-out threat like Millsap, yeah, I think that that we be a good way to offset Millsap's production, and of the guys we have off of the bench, Jackson is the best playmaker of the bunch, especially since we just lost Turner. Who would you rather have running the offense? Rozier? Smart? Brown? Ahahaha ;D.
I respect that you disregard the consensus or expert opinion and completely form your own, but surely you can see why some find it absurd to look at a team with 2 all stars a 1 team all defense player, a proven contributor like Jae Crowder and recent top 10 picks Marcus Smart and Jaylen Brown and say the two guys who stand out to you are the 45 and 49th picks from a recent draft who have played exactly 0 NBA minutes.
Also I really like Demetrius Jackson but think you are overrating his ability to run an offense. he can run pick and roll, but ND had a pretty disgustingly rigid offense. Could be more the fault of the system, but still.
Sure, even though Jackson was taken at 45 and Bentil at 51, as opposed to 49, and as I said in my thread entitled 'Jackson or Rozier', I give Ainge huge props for getting them at those spots, even though they were practically no brainers, imo, but still, I give Danny tremendous credit for that. Those guys are first round talents, and I was surprised that the Bulls didn't take Jackson, especially after they had just traded Rose. I don't know how good either of these guys will become, but I like what I see, and as of right now, just based off of what they did in college, I'd say that we got better players at 45 and 51 than we did with any of our first rounders, but I'm probably wrong and I really hope that that will not be the case regarding Jaylen Brown. I really want him to shine, tomorrow, and the same for all of our guys :). Well, except for James Young, lol ;D.
It's one thing to like those guys, but it's another thing to state that they are already better than every player already on the team. Honestly, that's silly and bizarre. You suggested trading IT and Olynyk for Poetl. I don't mean to be mean, but you have to be ready to take some sht over those comments and not to get offended by it.
Hmm, I never actually said that, but whatever, and you're missing the point, entirely, anyway.
You said that Jackson is our best point guard right now and that Bentil is better than Crowder right now. No wonder so many people are arguing with you on this thread.
Sigh. If you're going to attack me, can you at least get your facts straight. I said that Taurean Prince - not Ben Bentil - was, IMO, already better than Crowder for the reasons that I stated. I didn't just say that Prince was better than Jae like it was a fact at all, that's what the 'imo' is for ;). Is it wrong to have an opinion, now? Geesh.
It's not wrong to have an opinion, but when your opinions are so far out there, you can't be so argumentative and have such thin skin. I'm not going to look up your comments about Bentil, but at least you admit that you said that Jackson is already better than our NBA all star PG. Or that you said we should trade IT and Olynyk for Poetl. Hey, if you just laughed about it, fine, but you have been defensive and argumentative with a bunch of people here.
To be fair, you generally bring humor here which I appreciate.
Yeah, because they were attacking me as a person as opposed to just arguing with what I had posted. I don't see eye to eye with everyone all the time, either, but I don't go around mocking them by putting something that they said in my sig and then announcing to the forum about how awesome it is ::). That's the difference.
And yes, I did say both of those things in regards to the trade for Poeltl and about Jackson being better than our point guards, but did you see my reasons for saying that? I didn't just state it as a fact (and I was actually responding to a point made by crimson, so I didn't just put it out there in the first post of the thread, or anything) - I looked at Jackson's strengths as opposed to IT, Smart, and Rozier, who isn't really a point guard, although neither is Smart, really, and applied them accordingly. I guess the way that I look at it is that Jackson has all of the best attributes of those players and then some, but again, that's just my opinion. Here's what I said, for the record -
To be completely honest, I don't want to choose - I want both.
I think Jackson and Rozier both have a higher upside then Marcus Smart, and I see a Jackson/Rozier backcourt being more dangerous then any backcourt with Smart in it.
That's no disrespect to Smart - love the kid. Just that I really like Jackson and Rozier - they are both explosive athletes who can handle the ball, score, pass, shoot, and get to the basket...and they are both tough kids who play with a lot of passion.
I'm trying to imagine Jackson, Rozier and Brown coming off the bench this year as our backups at the PG / SG / SF spot. That could the most athletic bench in the entire NBA.
Oh without a doubt, but especially Jackson, imo. In looking at his stats and watching some youtube clips, lol ;D, I think he's already the best point guard on our roster, including IT, and I'll tell you why. He's a much better defender, ball handler, shooter, passer, and can operate off the ball much more successfully, than Thomas, he has superior athleticism, quickness, and decision making to Smart, and he plays with fire but also under control and knows who he is as a player, unlike Rozier. Here's his 24 point, 4 assist performance at Duke -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmdXw7OJjZs
Tell me, because I know that I'm probably being ridiculous, here, but does anyone else see Jackson as Tim Hardaway, albeit without the signature crossover but the strength, quickness, and athleticism, not to mention the similar shooting form, meets Eric Bledsoe? Yeah, it's probably just me, lol ;D.
Yeah, I get it - I'm probably wrong, as usual, but at least I made fun of myself in the process as opposed to just laying my opinion out there like it's an indisputable fact or something because I know everything. Geesh.
OK, honestly I get a little defensive of the team especially on a holiday weekend when I've already had a few. I already regret butting my nose into this. Truce? And no, I don't see Tim Hardaway in Jackson. I hope Jackson can catch on as a third string PG.
BLA has very "different" opinions than the mainstream around here. Loves his diamond in the rough kind of guys.
That said. A very knowledgable basketball guy who sees the game well and is fun to debate with. He told me once that we should trade IT and start Jackson too. Now, of course that's ridiculous, but it's fun to see what he has to say about one of our new additions, and while he overstates the guy's strengths, you can see why he likes a guy like Jackson as much as he does.
I love having BLA here. I never agree with him much, but it's always good to have differing prospectives, and BLA is an easy guy to get along with.
Long as we all are cordial to each other here, we can have a place where differing opinions are respected, even if not accepted by the majority. That's what I hope for the CB forums anyway.
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Just looked up Horford's stats and still don't understand why he's a max player.
Dude is a four-time all-star who just developed a three point game recently, which is especially remarkable considering he's a center. His stellar defense is hard to quantify with stats.
Mozgov is making eight-digits per year now, so of course Horford is a max guy.
Being an all-star center in a league void of Centers doesn't impress me.
His production is that of a high level role player.
I'm just scared of that contract turning into a bad one in a couple of years.
If you look at potential lineups, Horford provides Draymond Green versatility on the offensive end without sacrificing defense.
IT - Bradley - Jae - Horford - Amir
IT - Bradley - Jae - Brown - Horford
IT - Bradley - Jae - Kelly - Horford
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Taurean Prince is already better than Jae? Just when I thought I'd heard it all.
If we had picked him would he still be better than Jae? Or would Danny have made a terrible move since he drafted a guy who projects to be maybe as good as Jae, and hence would be redundant?
My personal favorite was the implication that it our only hope would be to play Jackson and Bentil.
Given that Bentil is an inside-out threat like Millsap, yeah, I think that that we be a good way to offset Millsap's production, and of the guys we have off of the bench, Jackson is the best playmaker of the bunch, especially since we just lost Turner. Who would you rather have running the offense? Rozier? Smart? Brown? Ahahaha ;D.
I respect that you disregard the consensus or expert opinion and completely form your own, but surely you can see why some find it absurd to look at a team with 2 all stars a 1 team all defense player, a proven contributor like Jae Crowder and recent top 10 picks Marcus Smart and Jaylen Brown and say the two guys who stand out to you are the 45 and 49th picks from a recent draft who have played exactly 0 NBA minutes.
Also I really like Demetrius Jackson but think you are overrating his ability to run an offense. he can run pick and roll, but ND had a pretty disgustingly rigid offense. Could be more the fault of the system, but still.
Sure, even though Jackson was taken at 45 and Bentil at 51, as opposed to 49, and as I said in my thread entitled 'Jackson or Rozier', I give Ainge huge props for getting them at those spots, even though they were practically no brainers, imo, but still, I give Danny tremendous credit for that. Those guys are first round talents, and I was surprised that the Bulls didn't take Jackson, especially after they had just traded Rose. I don't know how good either of these guys will become, but I like what I see, and as of right now, just based off of what they did in college, I'd say that we got better players at 45 and 51 than we did with any of our first rounders, but I'm probably wrong and I really hope that that will not be the case regarding Jaylen Brown. I really want him to shine, tomorrow, and the same for all of our guys :). Well, except for James Young, lol ;D.
It's one thing to like those guys, but it's another thing to state that they are already better than every player already on the team. Honestly, that's silly and bizarre. You suggested trading IT and Olynyk for Poetl. I don't mean to be mean, but you have to be ready to take some sht over those comments and not to get offended by it.
Hmm, I never actually said that, but whatever, and you're missing the point, entirely, anyway.
You said that Jackson is our best point guard right now and that Bentil is better than Crowder right now. No wonder so many people are arguing with you on this thread.
Sigh. If you're going to attack me, can you at least get your facts straight. I said that Taurean Prince - not Ben Bentil - was, IMO, already better than Crowder for the reasons that I stated. I didn't just say that Prince was better than Jae like it was a fact at all, that's what the 'imo' is for ;). Is it wrong to have an opinion, now? Geesh.
It's not wrong to have an opinion, but when your opinions are so far out there, you can't be so argumentative and have such thin skin. I'm not going to look up your comments about Bentil, but at least you admit that you said that Jackson is already better than our NBA all star PG. Or that you said we should trade IT and Olynyk for Poetl. Hey, if you just laughed about it, fine, but you have been defensive and argumentative with a bunch of people here.
To be fair, you generally bring humor here which I appreciate.
Yeah, because they were attacking me as a person as opposed to just arguing with what I had posted. I don't see eye to eye with everyone all the time, either, but I don't go around mocking them by putting something that they said in my sig and then announcing to the forum about how awesome it is ::). That's the difference.
And yes, I did say both of those things in regards to the trade for Poeltl and about Jackson being better than our point guards, but did you see my reasons for saying that? I didn't just state it as a fact (and I was actually responding to a point made by crimson, so I didn't just put it out there in the first post of the thread, or anything) - I looked at Jackson's strengths as opposed to IT, Smart, and Rozier, who isn't really a point guard, although neither is Smart, really, and applied them accordingly. I guess the way that I look at it is that Jackson has all of the best attributes of those players and then some, but again, that's just my opinion. Here's what I said, for the record -
To be completely honest, I don't want to choose - I want both.
I think Jackson and Rozier both have a higher upside then Marcus Smart, and I see a Jackson/Rozier backcourt being more dangerous then any backcourt with Smart in it.
That's no disrespect to Smart - love the kid. Just that I really like Jackson and Rozier - they are both explosive athletes who can handle the ball, score, pass, shoot, and get to the basket...and they are both tough kids who play with a lot of passion.
I'm trying to imagine Jackson, Rozier and Brown coming off the bench this year as our backups at the PG / SG / SF spot. That could the most athletic bench in the entire NBA.
Oh without a doubt, but especially Jackson, imo. In looking at his stats and watching some youtube clips, lol ;D, I think he's already the best point guard on our roster, including IT, and I'll tell you why. He's a much better defender, ball handler, shooter, passer, and can operate off the ball much more successfully, than Thomas, he has superior athleticism, quickness, and decision making to Smart, and he plays with fire but also under control and knows who he is as a player, unlike Rozier. Here's his 24 point, 4 assist performance at Duke -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmdXw7OJjZs
Tell me, because I know that I'm probably being ridiculous, here, but does anyone else see Jackson as Tim Hardaway, albeit without the signature crossover but the strength, quickness, and athleticism, not to mention the similar shooting form, meets Eric Bledsoe? Yeah, it's probably just me, lol ;D.
Yeah, I get it - I'm probably wrong, as usual, but at least I made fun of myself in the process as opposed to just laying my opinion out there like it's an indisputable fact or something because I know everything. Geesh.
OK, honestly I get a little defensive of the team especially on a holiday weekend when I've already had a few. I already regret butting my nose into this. Truce? And no, I don't see Tim Hardaway in Jackson. I hope Jackson can catch on as a third string PG.
BLA has very "different" opinions than the mainstream around here. Loves his diamond in the rough kind of guys.
That said. A very knowledgable basketball guy who sees the game well and is fun to debate with. He told me once that we should trade IT and start Jackson too. Now, of course that's ridiculous, but it's fun to see what he has to say about one of our new additions, and while he overstates the guy's strengths, you can see why he likes a guy like Jackson as much as he does.
I love having BLA here. I never agree with him much, but it's always good to have differing prospectives, and BLA is an easy guy to get along with.
Long as we all are cordial to each other here, we can have a place where differing opinions are respected, even if not accepted by the majority. That's what I hope for the CB forums anyway.
Hey thanks, TP :), and I hope for the same regarding civility. I realize we don't often agree, but it's great having you, here, as well, and I always enjoy our debates, lol ;D. I'm just trying not to jinx the whole Durant thing, right now, haha, but even if he doesn't come here, which is what I'm expecting, getting a guy like Horford is a huge deal for the franchise regarding free agency moving forward, and even though I don't like Al, I give a tip of my hat to Ainge just for being able to end the the free agency debacle for the Celtics. Well done, sir :).
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Just looked up Horford's stats and still don't understand why he's a max player.
Dude is a four-time all-star who just developed a three point game recently, which is especially remarkable considering he's a center. His stellar defense is hard to quantify with stats.
Mozgov is making eight-digits per year now, so of course Horford is a max guy.
Being an all-star center in a league void of Centers doesn't impress me.
His production is that of a high level role player.
I'm just scared of that contract turning into a bad one in a couple of years.
all of this is ridiculous
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Just looked up Horford's stats and still don't understand why he's a max player.
Dude is a four-time all-star who just developed a three point game recently, which is especially remarkable considering he's a center. His stellar defense is hard to quantify with stats.
Mozgov is making eight-digits per year now, so of course Horford is a max guy.
Being an all-star center in a league void of Centers doesn't impress me.
His production is that of a high level role player.
I'm just scared of that contract turning into a bad one in a couple of years.
My thoughts as well but I think he's a good fit at least for a couple of years
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Just looked up Horford's stats and still don't understand why he's a max player.
Dude is a four-time all-star who just developed a three point game recently, which is especially remarkable considering he's a center. His stellar defense is hard to quantify with stats.
Mozgov is making eight-digits per year now, so of course Horford is a max guy.
Being an all-star center in a league void of Centers doesn't impress me.
His production is that of a high level role player.
I'm just scared of that contract turning into a bad one in a couple of years.
enjoy the ride
We improved our roster
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I definitely think it would be a bad move if we KNEW Durant wasn't coming here. I do think Horford is declining and while making us better, I don't see us as a contender. The way I see it though, Danny had no choice. We wouldn't have a prayer at Durang without him. You had to risk it and live with the consequences without Durant. It's a downer but I have no problem with it.
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Mike and Mike reporting that Tito Horford, Al Horford's dad said Al told him that he was swayed by the Boston fans passion for their team. That when they played Boston the fans cheered the Cs on even when Cs were down by 15 points.
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I definitely think it would be a bad move if we KNEW Durant wasn't coming here. I do think Horford is declining and while making us better, I don't see us as a contender. The way I see it though, Danny had no choice. We wouldn't have a prayer at Durang without him. You had to risk it and live with the consequences without Durant. It's a downer but I have no problem with it.
Boston wasn't a contender without him though either. Signing Horford doesn't look like it will affect the long term ability to sign another free agent and he improves the team. Unless Boston was going to sell off pieces and go into tank mode, then this is the type of move that had o be made.
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Horford is a 3rd tier all-star as is Isaiah.
Superstars Tier 1: LBJ, Durant, Curry etc. (Prime KG was here)
Perennial All-stars Tier 2: Lillard, Griffin, Aldridge, Melo etc (Prime Pierce and Allen were here)
Fringe all-stars Tier 3: Derozan, Horford, M.Gasol, D.Green, IT etc (Rondo was/is here)
I pay the top 2 tiers max money no question, but tier 3 I'm not as willing, especially considering age. Paying fringe all-stars max money doesn't seem like a recipe for success. Imo, the signing only made sense with Durant.
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Mike and Mike reporting that Tito Horford, Al Horford's dad said Al told him that he was swayed by the Boston fans passion for their team. That when they played Boston the fans cheered the Cs on even when Cs were down by 15 points.
Yes, they saw the quotes right after Horford agreed as we all did.
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Obviously I wanted Durant but now that we know he's not coming, I want to get back to focusing on Horford and what he's bringing to the team. Best FA big man, IMO, and a huge upgrade over every big on the C's roster. I'm excited to see what Stevens does with a player that skilled.