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Other Discussions => Other / General Sports => Topic started by: Ogaju on June 11, 2016, 09:51:48 PM

Title: Did the NBA destroy the Olympics
Post by: Ogaju on June 11, 2016, 09:51:48 PM
remember when the Olympic was all about amateur athletes competing for their country with pride and sometimes hope that maybe their performance may spur them onto fame and maybe fortune?

Well, enter the NBA into the Olympics and any pretense of amateurism in the Olympics was erased. The NBA players now consume the Olympics, the basketball is no longer competitive it is only a matter of how much will the USA destroy all comers. The opening ceremonies is now mostly about the NBA players, and do these spoiled NBA players appreciate the Olympics or embody the Olympic spirit? No, they do not. It is all about money for them.

Barkley famously insulted the player from Zaire that was so googly-eyed about playing with the USA that he tried to shake the hands of Barkley. What about the players refusing to show the Reebok emblem on their suits because they had endorsements with NIKE.




Title: Re: Did the NBA destroy the Olympics
Post by: eja117 on June 11, 2016, 09:55:22 PM
If I remember correctly other teams were already sending their pros. Also our pros have been beat so I'm gonna go with no
Title: Re: Did the NBA destroy the Olympics
Post by: mctyson on June 11, 2016, 09:56:34 PM
The olympics should be about the best athletes, period.  Why can tennis pros play?
Title: Re: Did the NBA destroy the Olympics
Post by: Ogaju on June 11, 2016, 10:01:52 PM
If I remember correctly other teams were already sending their pros. Also our pros have been beat so I'm gonna go with no

I was thinking about that,  but I don't recall when  our pros lost. When was that again?
Title: Re: Did the NBA destroy the Olympics
Post by: Celtics4ever on June 11, 2016, 10:04:58 PM
Quote
remember when the Olympic was all about amateur athletes competing for their country with pride and sometimes hope that maybe their performance may spur them onto fame and maybe fortune?

This was true of us in basketball but many other counties had their version of pros playing.
Title: Re: Did the NBA destroy the Olympics
Post by: Ogaju on June 11, 2016, 10:09:20 PM
Quote
remember when the Olympic was all about amateur athletes competing for their country with pride and sometimes hope that maybe their performance may spur them onto fame and maybe fortune?

This was true of us in basketball but many other counties had their version of pros playing.

I see that we lost in 2004 but partly because some of the NBA stars refused to go because of security concerns after 9/11.
Title: Re: Did the NBA destroy the Olympics
Post by: Celtics18 on June 11, 2016, 10:36:09 PM
Quote
remember when the Olympic was all about amateur athletes competing for their country with pride and sometimes hope that maybe their performance may spur them onto fame and maybe fortune?

This was true of us in basketball but many other counties had their version of pros playing.

I see that we lost in 2004 but partly because some of the NBA stars refused to go because of security concerns after 9/11.

The US also failed to win gold in the 2002 and 2006 world championships.  Eventually we will lose our dominant status over the rest of the world and the game will be more exciting for it. 

The rest of the world will catch up faster by competing against the US than they will by being protected against them.
Title: Re: Did the NBA destroy the Olympics
Post by: RockinRyA on June 11, 2016, 11:29:20 PM
Very nearsighted and america-centric view from OP. You do realize that other countries are sending their Pros as well? You do realize that without Pros, some countries (like ours) wont get to send a competitive team?
Title: Re: Did the NBA destroy the Olympics
Post by: KGs Knee on June 11, 2016, 11:42:12 PM
Very nearsighted and america-centric view from OP. You do realize that other countries are sending their Pros as well? You do realize that without Pros, some countries (like ours) wont get to send a competitive team?

So do this, by nature, make yours an anti-American POV?

'Murica!
Title: Re: Did the NBA destroy the Olympics
Post by: jpotter33 on June 12, 2016, 12:07:17 AM
Quote
remember when the Olympic was all about amateur athletes competing for their country with pride and sometimes hope that maybe their performance may spur them onto fame and maybe fortune?

This was true of us in basketball but many other counties had their version of pros playing.

I see that we lost in 2004 but partly because some of the NBA stars refused to go because of security concerns after 9/11.

The US also failed to win gold in the 2002 and 2006 world championships.  Eventually we will lose our dominant status over the rest of the world and the game will be more exciting for it. 

The rest of the world will catch up faster by competing against the US than they will by being protected against them.

Eh, I just don't see that happening, not on an individual country level, that is. We have several main advantages that will keep us squarely at the top: 1) massive country population, 2) massive popularity within the country (much more than other countries, at least), 3) superior programs and opportunities to raise and develop players due to our affluent status and the sport's popularity.

I just don't think there will ever be a single country that could challenge us in basketball due to all of those factors. Hell, I still think that it'll be a long time before Team World could beat Team USA (the 2014 All-Star Rising Stars game notwithstanding).
Title: Re: Did the NBA destroy the Olympics
Post by: Denis998 on June 12, 2016, 12:19:42 AM
Canada will soon take over.
Murray - Joseph
Wiggins - Sauce Castillo
Lyles
Thompson - Powell
KO
Title: Re: Did the NBA destroy the Olympics
Post by: jambr380 on June 12, 2016, 01:42:05 AM
Canada will soon take over.
Murray - Joseph
Wiggins - Sauce Castillo
Lyles
Thompson - Powell
KO

My, how the mighty have fallen - don't forget Bennett! ;0)
Title: Re: Did the NBA destroy the Olympics
Post by: ChampKind on June 12, 2016, 02:47:13 AM
Did the NHL destroy the Winter Olympics?

Sadly, we have to sit and watch the best players in the world (and, occasionally, Christian Laettner) compete against each other.  It's a shameful day in sports when athletes are allowed to maximize their earning power AND represent their country at the same time.
Title: Re: Did the NBA destroy the Olympics
Post by: RockinRyA on June 12, 2016, 04:23:07 AM
Very nearsighted and america-centric view from OP. You do realize that other countries are sending their Pros as well? You do realize that without Pros, some countries (like ours) wont get to send a competitive team?

So do this, by nature, make yours an anti-American POV?

'Murica!

Of course not. Its not Black or White. Again, not everything is about America. just because I said that his statement is a one sided view doesnt mean I am anti-america. The Olympics is about the world, so to only look at it from a single country's point of view is just plain wrong. Is pointing it out make me anti-american? Other countries do have Pro Leagues fyi. These leagues send their players to these competition. The Philippines for example have 100% of their National team as Pros, same as China. The NBA isn't the only Pro League in the world.
Title: Re: Did the NBA destroy the Olympics
Post by: gift on June 12, 2016, 06:57:46 AM
remember when the Olympic was all about amateur athletes competing for their country with pride and sometimes hope that maybe their performance may spur them onto fame and maybe fortune?

Well, enter the NBA into the Olympics and any pretense of amateurism in the Olympics was erased. The NBA players now consume the Olympics, the basketball is no longer competitive it is only a matter of how much will the USA destroy all comers. The opening ceremonies is now mostly about the NBA players, and do these spoiled NBA players appreciate the Olympics or embody the Olympic spirit? No, they do not. It is all about money for them.

Barkley famously insulted the player from Zaire that was so googly-eyed about playing with the USA that he tried to shake the hands of Barkley. What about the players refusing to show the Reebok emblem on their suits because they had endorsements with NIKE.

I'm only old enough to remember when the Olympics was about money. I do remember thinking differently as a child though, but that is likely my mistake rather than the Olympics somehow losing their way.
Title: Re: Did the NBA destroy the Olympics
Post by: Celtics4ever on June 12, 2016, 07:53:11 AM
Quote
Canada will soon take over.
Murray - Joseph
Wiggins - Sauce Castillo
Lyles
Thompson - Powell
KO

I just do not see them taking over, maybe winning one but taking over is a reach.   Out of those you list only Wiggins strikes fear in me.   Lyles is  young,  KO is soft, Powell is a funny addition.   

Canada basketball has come on strong and produced some nice NBA players.  But that list does not strike fear into international basketball.
Title: Re: Did the NBA destroy the Olympics
Post by: eja117 on June 12, 2016, 07:56:07 AM
Canada will soon take over.
Murray - Joseph
Wiggins - Sauce Castillo
Lyles
Thompson - Powell
KO

My, how the mighty have fallen - don't forget Bennett! ;0)
And Andrew Nicholson darn it
Title: Re: Did the NBA destroy the Olympics
Post by: LatterDayCelticsfan on July 25, 2016, 02:59:06 AM
If I remember correctly other teams were already sending their pros. Also our pros have been beat so I'm gonna go with no

My understanding is that "amateur" was mostly a euphemism for Wealthy aristocrat.
Title: Re: Did the NBA destroy the Olympics
Post by: crimson_stallion on July 25, 2016, 03:37:05 AM
I don't think so at all, and I'm not even American - I'm Australian.

When America was entering college teams, to my knowledge, those college players were playing against the opponent's professional athletes - and, for the most part, they were winning.

Then from memory the US lost one year (I think it was the Russia scenario, but can't recall for certain) and decided no more mucking around - for the sake of national pride, they would stop playing with amateurs and take on the opposing pro players with pro players of their own.

The Americans crushed everybody else, and the rest is history.

Is this unfair?  I don't think so.  The USA has the best basketball league in the world, but a LONG margin.  It has the best players in the world.  A lot of that has to do with the fact that the country has the interest, the money and the population size to constantly churn out high caliber prospects (who eventually become high caliber star players). 

Why should the US be penalysed for being better then everybody else?  That is to their credit for putting together such a strong infrastructure around the sport.

The whole idea of sport and the Olympics is competition. 

Competition improves the breed - as the saying goes.  The way you make yourself stronger at something is by competing against those who are better then you - and if you are talented enough and work hard enough, one day you will beat them and take their position on the podium.  If you take the opposite approach and simply put restrictions on those who are the best, all it does is lower the standard across the board.  Where is the challenge in that?

24 years ago, no team could come close to beating the US team.  They knew they couldn't, so they basically played for second place.  Since then the opposition has gotten stronger.  The US has already lost twice in the world championships - other Countries have proven that everybody - even the mighty US team - can be beaten, and the best international teams believe that now.  It's no longer a walk in the park for the US - if they don't play their absolute best, they seriously risk losing the gold. Hell even if they do play their best, they still can't be assured of victory any more.   
Title: Re: Did the NBA destroy the Olympics
Post by: obnoxiousmime on July 25, 2016, 04:10:11 AM
This is a supremely simplistic view of the Olympics. The Olympics are a massively profitable enterprise that makes money off its athletes under the pretense of amateurism. The NBA allowed its stars to participate to market its superstars around the world, and it worked. Now that they don't need the games as much you hear rumblings that they would rather not give away their assets for free, but it's hard for them to ban participation when superstars still want the right to play.

It's also a marketing platform for stars and rising stars to increase their own global profile, so the players benefit as well even if the Olympics doesn't really pay them an actual salary.
Title: Re: Did the NBA destroy the Olympics
Post by: SparzWizard on July 25, 2016, 04:31:24 AM
Whenever Kobe plays, Team USA wins gold!

It's probably the one time I root for Kobe, LeBron, and co and that's during the olympics as they're repping my country lol!
Title: Re: Did the NBA destroy the Olympics
Post by: BornReady on July 25, 2016, 05:07:30 AM
Part of me wishes that they only used young professional basketball players
Like a under 24s or something
So I can see the young international players play more

But then again we won't be able to see things like the dream team or Lebron and Kobe on the same team
Title: Re: Did the NBA destroy the Olympics
Post by: Celtics4ever on July 25, 2016, 06:23:39 AM
Quote
Whenever Kobe plays, Team USA wins gold!

It's probably the one time I root for Kobe, LeBron, and co and that's during the olympics as they're repping my country lol!

If he is on the team this year, it will be due to charity and not ability.
Title: Re: Did the NBA destroy the Olympics
Post by: Surferdad on July 25, 2016, 09:49:35 AM
I don't think so at all, and I'm not even American - I'm Australian.

When America was entering college teams, to my knowledge, those college players were playing against the opponent's professional athletes - and, for the most part, they were winning.

Then from memory the US lost one year (I think it was the Russia scenario, but can't recall for certain) and decided no more mucking around - for the sake of national pride, they would stop playing with amateurs and take on the opposing pro players with pro players of their own.

The Americans crushed everybody else, and the rest is history.

Is this unfair?  I don't think so.  The USA has the best basketball league in the world, but a LONG margin.  It has the best players in the world.  A lot of that has to do with the fact that the country has the interest, the money and the population size to constantly churn out high caliber prospects (who eventually become high caliber star players). 

Why should the US be penalysed for being better then everybody else?  That is to their credit for putting together such a strong infrastructure around the sport.

The whole idea of sport and the Olympics is competition. 

Competition improves the breed - as the saying goes.  The way you make yourself stronger at something is by competing against those who are better then you - and if you are talented enough and work hard enough, one day you will beat them and take their position on the podium.  If you take the opposite approach and simply put restrictions on those who are the best, all it does is lower the standard across the board.  Where is the challenge in that?

24 years ago, no team could come close to beating the US team.  They knew they couldn't, so they basically played for second place.  Since then the opposition has gotten stronger.  The US has already lost twice in the world championships - other Countries have proven that everybody - even the mighty US team - can be beaten, and the best international teams believe that now.  It's no longer a walk in the park for the US - if they don't play their absolute best, they seriously risk losing the gold. Hell even if they do play their best, they still can't be assured of victory any more.   
TP crimson stallion, so many good points here that are overlooked by younger folks who don't have a memory of the 90's and earlier.  Why should US college kids compete against pro players from other countries?  That is not fair.  Also great to point out that even though Team USA has won gold the last 3 times in a row, they haven't won 25 times in a row.  The International players have gotten a lot better and many are in the NBA.

Lastly, the NBA didn't start the pro player trend, they followed it so the title of this thread is misleading.
Title: Re: Did the NBA destroy the Olympics
Post by: Donoghus on July 25, 2016, 10:23:40 AM
NBA hasn't destroyed the Olympics but the IOC corruption & incompetence very well could. 

Plus, sending NBA players in '92 didn't kill the amateurism.  That stuff was going on well before that especially with the old Eastern Bloc countries.
Title: Re: Did the NBA destroy the Olympics
Post by: gift on July 25, 2016, 10:52:49 AM
It's no longer a walk in the park for the US - if they don't play their absolute best, they seriously risk losing the gold. Hell even if they do play their best, they still can't be assured of victory any more.   

I disagree with just the bolded part. No one is beating the US if they are playing their best. Other teams need the US to play poorly to have a reasonable chance.
Title: Re: Did the NBA destroy the Olympics
Post by: SparzWizard on July 25, 2016, 02:34:40 PM
It's no longer a walk in the park for the US - if they don't play their absolute best, they seriously risk losing the gold. Hell even if they do play their best, they still can't be assured of victory any more.   

I disagree with just the bolded part. No one is beating the US if they are playing their best. Other teams need the US to play poorly to have a reasonable chance.

Spain has given the US the toughest time.
Title: Re: Did the NBA destroy the Olympics
Post by: Moranis on July 25, 2016, 04:25:08 PM
Argentina won the 2004 Olympic Gold Medal.  They beat the US in the Semi-Finals 89-81.  The US beat Lithuania in the Bronze Medal game by just 8 points.

In 2008 and 2012, the US beat Spain for the Gold Medal.  The US won those games by 11 and 7 respectively.  In a weird coincidence in each of those tournaments the US beat Australia in the Quarters and Argentina in the Semis. 

Even before the 2004 Olympic collapse the US had a number of close games in the 2000 tournament beating France twice (by 12 and 10) and Lithuania twice (by 9 and 2).  Even the game against Russia was only a 15 point win. 

That doesn't even count the World Championships, which the US lost in 2002 and 2006 (thus the US went 3 straight international tournaments without a win).  And 2002 was an epic embarrassment for the US as it lost to Argentina in the Group Stage and then lost in the Quarter Finals to Yugoslavia and the 5th place game to Spain.  Thus the 2002 US team finished in 6th place with 3 losses.  In 2006, Greece beat the US in the Semis.  The US at least redeemed itself a bit by beating Argentina for 3rd place (Greece got crushed by Spain in the Finals).  That was the US only loss in the tournament (Greece only lost in the Finals and Spain was unbeaten that year).

This notion that the US is an unbeatable juggernaut is just silly. 
Title: Re: Did the NBA destroy the Olympics
Post by: D Dub on July 25, 2016, 04:43:23 PM
Quote from: jpotter33

Eh, I just don't see that happening, not on an individual country level, that is. We have several main advantages that will keep us squarely at the top: 1) massive country population, 2) massive popularity within the country (much more than other countries, at least), 3) superior programs and opportunities to raise and develop players due to our affluent status and the sport's popularity.

I just don't think there will ever be a single country that could challenge us in basketball due to all of those factors. Hell, I still think that it'll be a long time before Team World could beat Team USA (the 2014 All-Star Rising Stars game notwithstanding).

You are forgetting the biggest factor of all. 

Genetics. 

Can you think of another country that selectively bred a minority population of humans for 200+ years for the sole purpose of creating a bigger & stronger slave labor force?

Disgusting, but true.  In fact, you can see it right on the back of the jersey.   Not many African American athletes out there who still bear the last name of their African ancestors...


Title: Re: Did the NBA destroy the Olympics
Post by: footey on July 25, 2016, 04:51:23 PM
color me unpatriotic if you want (I'm not), but I find myself sometimes rooting against the USA team, as my instinct is to just root for the underdog. 
Title: Re: Did the NBA destroy the Olympics
Post by: kozlodoev on July 25, 2016, 05:12:08 PM
Can you think of another country that selectively bred a minority population of humans for 200+ years for the sole purpose of creating a bigger & stronger slave labor force?
You should read up on the India caste system.
Title: Re: Did the NBA destroy the Olympics
Post by: Donoghus on July 25, 2016, 05:15:39 PM
The world has certainly closed the gap on the US since '92.  I think that's apparent.

However, there was also a stretch there where the USA wasn't exactly trotting out there best there.  2002 being the most obvious example but the same can be said for the team that got beat in Athens.  2004 and you have no KG, Kobe, or Shaq.   '06, you had a decent team in FIBA but again, no KG, Duncan, Kobe, or Shaq.

The USA wasn't exactly trotting out their A squads for a few championship cycles there.   When they're loaded (2008 & 2012) with the best of the best, it's a bit of a different narrative.