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Other Discussions => Other / General Sports => Bruins / Hockey => Topic started by: DraftSmart33 on June 26, 2015, 03:46:15 PM

Title: Could be worse...Hamilton Traded
Post by: DraftSmart33 on June 26, 2015, 03:46:15 PM
Breaking News....Dougie Hamilton Traded to Calgary for a 1(#14) and two 2nd round picks........

WTH are the Bruins thinking?
Title: Re: Could be worse...Hamilton Traded
Post by: PhoSita on June 26, 2015, 03:47:21 PM
Maybe they're gonna tank.  The salary cap is a major problem for them.  Retooling that team will probably take more than one off-season to complete.
Title: Re: Could be worse...Hamilton Traded
Post by: Roy H. on June 26, 2015, 03:48:46 PM
Wow. I thought the Bs would build a perennial contender around Seguin and Hamilton. What a waste.
Title: Re: Could be worse...Hamilton Traded
Post by: kozlodoev on June 26, 2015, 03:50:47 PM
Breaking News....Dougie Hamilton Traded to Calgary for a 1(#14) and two 2nd round picks........

WTH are the Bruins thinking?
I've got two words for you, my friend: Cap. Space. That's why they also sent Soderberg's rights out of town for chump change.

That, and apparently noone wants Lucic, I'm guessing.
Title: Re: Could be worse...Hamilton Traded
Post by: DraftSmart33 on June 26, 2015, 03:50:52 PM
Yeah....Unfortunately you don't rebuild trading away your 21 year old stud defensemen.....

I would have rather built around Hamilton and Subban than traded Hamilton.....Boston always eats their young.
Title: Re: Could be worse...Hamilton Traded
Post by: DraftSmart33 on June 26, 2015, 03:53:01 PM
It think there are other options to clear space than trade your youth away...The Bruins have a bad track record with young players.
Title: Re: Could be worse...Hamilton Traded
Post by: max215 on June 26, 2015, 03:55:17 PM
Bruins- worst run franchise in all of sports. The Seguin and Hamilton trades are embarrassing.
Title: Re: Could be worse...Hamilton Traded
Post by: dreamgreen on June 26, 2015, 03:59:47 PM
Wow. I thought the Bs would build a perennial contender around Seguin and Hamilton. What a waste.

Yea me too. To bad Seguin was so young and wanted to party all the time. :-[
Title: Re: Could be worse...Hamilton Traded
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on June 26, 2015, 06:49:06 PM
I guess I don't understand the Bruins' cap situation, and maybe the general NHL cap system. How can a really good team like Chicago be loaded with high-end talent while (I'm presuming) staying under the cap, while a Boston team with no bonafide stars is CONSTANTLY dealing players "because of their cap situation"? The Bruins now have an aging defensive corp and no fearsome offensive players.
Title: Re: Could be worse...Hamilton Traded
Post by: Roy H. on June 26, 2015, 07:13:37 PM
Lucic traded, too.  Bruins are getting a 1st, a goalie, and a prospect, and are picking up a chunk of his salary.
Title: Re: Could be worse...Hamilton Traded
Post by: boscel33 on June 27, 2015, 07:15:01 AM
Wow. I thought the Bs would build a perennial contender around Seguin and Hamilton. What a waste.

Amen!

How many teams would love to have the roster we had just a couple of years ago, prior to Seguin being dealt.  This is on the coach.  If you're given sports cars, turn them loose.  Not all players are the plodding defensive type that Julien needs to have to play his style of hockey. 
Title: Re: Could be worse...Hamilton Traded
Post by: Vermont Green on June 27, 2015, 07:50:34 AM
Wow, hockey talk on CelticsBlog.  I love Hockey, actually still play regularly with a light-weight, try-to-not-hurt-anyone group.  Basketball is much more fun to follow and obsess over though (not sure why).

Hockey is more like football than basketball in that individual stars are less impactful.  The Bruins philosophy has been depth over stars and it has actually been working pretty well overall.  No one has any idea how all these pick will work out but a couple of firsts, a couple of seconds plus a couple of prospects could work out pretty well.

For this coming season, it will come down to Chara.  When he is healthy, he can by himself create depth for them on defense.  He is like the #1 starter on a baseball team.  The #1 can't by himself make a pitching staff good but if you lose your #1, then someone who was an OK #2 becomes a marginal #1 and so on.  That is what will happed to the Bruins if Chara doesn't bounce back.  They won't be able to get the puck out of their own end.
Title: Re: Could be worse...Hamilton Traded
Post by: Roy H. on June 27, 2015, 07:56:59 AM
To top it off, Sweeney takes the first rounder from the Hamilton trade, and selects some guy ranked in the 40s among prospects.

According to draft experts, the Bs totally blew the draft.  Not a good start, when you trade your 22 year old stud defenseman.

The NBA equivalent would be trading DeMarcus Cousins for draft picks, and then selecting Jordan Mickey with a lottery pick.
Title: Re: Could be worse...Hamilton Traded
Post by: Roy H. on June 27, 2015, 08:05:01 AM
From CBS Sports:

Quote
Boston Bruins: What the hell, guys?

Seriously. What ... what are you doing?

I really don't know what the Bruins' plan was on Friday, other than to seemingly try and make the team significantly worse in the short-term.

Look, the NHL draft is a weird, unpredictable thing. It is entirely possible that one, or two, or even all of these draft picks the Bruins ended up with on Friday might pan out and be good NHL players at some point in the future. Maybe five years from now we're looking at Friday as a great day in Bruins history and the start of something really special. Maybe. If everything goes 100 percent perfect. But we know that's not how these things work. For anybody.

But in the meantime, what exactly is the plan here?

Trading Milan Lucic was actually a pretty good idea, and the return was probably very fair. But when you combine that with trading Dougie Hamilton for nothing but draft picks because you didn't want to pay him. And when you combine that with eating salary in the Lucic trade and not really solving your salary cap problems this season. And when you combine all of that with re-signing Adam McQuaid for four years and more than $2 million per season, it's just a baffling series of events.

And that's before you even get to the three players they selected with their trio of first-round picks (our Chris Peters wasn't a fan, while the first player selected was compared favorably on the NBCSN broadcast to Radko Gudas. Fine player, but not what you want at No. 13 overall).

Hamilton is a rising star in the NHL. He is 22 years old, already a pretty good top-pairing defensemen, and not only did the Bruins not want to pay him, the only thing they could get for him in a trade was three draft picks (No. 15, No. 45 and No. 52). Keep in mind that trade happened on the exact same day that the New York Islanders traded Griffin Reinhart, who is only a year younger than Hamilton and has almost no track record to speak of in the NHL (he has appeared in eight NHL games at this point) for the No. 16 and 33 pick. The difference between Hamilton and Reinhart in a trade in the NHL on Friday was an additional second-round draft pick. I know Hamilton is an RFA and Reinhart is still under contract, but the difference in talent and production should still be worth more than that.

And let's not forget the fact that the Bruins will commit more than $5 million in salary cap space next season by paying Adam McQuaid to be a third-pairing defensemen and Milan Lucic to play for the Los Angeles Kings. But they apparently wouldn't pay Dougie Hamilton, the type of young player that could have been a cornerstone player for years to come, $5 or $6 million.

It just doesn't make any [dang] sense.

Tyler Seguin and Hamilton should have been the foundation of the Bruins organization for the next decade. They now have Loui Eriksson, Reilly Smith and a couple of lottery tickets to show for them.

Incredible. Absolutely incredible.

CBS Sports draft pick grades:  C+, C-, D

Bleacher Report: C-, D+, F

Title: Re: Could be worse...Hamilton Traded
Post by: KGs Knee on June 27, 2015, 08:50:57 AM
The Bruins are like that girl you keep falling madly in love with, but keeps breaking your heart every time you give her another chance.   You know it will end badly, but you're just so in love with her you fool yourself into thinking everything will be different this time.

So even though they have had a great run, and finally won a Cup, here I am with a broken heart yet again. The Bruins do it every single time. Sadly, I know they'll woo me back again eventually.

And break my heart again too.
Title: Re: Could be worse...Hamilton Traded
Post by: Roy H. on June 27, 2015, 09:10:13 AM
The Bruins are like that girl you keep falling madly in love with, but keeps breaking your heart every time you give her another chance.   You know it will end badly, but you're just so in love with her you fool yourself into thinking everything will be different this time.

So even though they have had a great run, and finally won a Cup, here I am with a broken heart yet again. The Bruins do it every single time. Sadly, I know they'll woo me back again eventually.

And break my heart again too.

The Bruins remind me of the 1985 Bears (my favorite team). The championship was amazing and unforgettable, but they were set up so well that they should have won multiple titles.
Title: Re: Could be worse...Hamilton Traded
Post by: Vermont Green on June 27, 2015, 06:28:09 PM
The NBA equivalent would be trading DeMarcus Cousins for draft picks, and then selecting Jordan Mickey with a lottery pick.

I think you are being too tough on the Bruins.  Trading Hamilton is more like trading Victor Oladipo or Ben McLemore.  Hamilton has not done anything to put himself into the Cousins comparable territory.  As far as who they picked, I know nothing about them.  If you are right and they all turn out to be Jordan Mickey, that will be sad but I have my doubts that it is that dire.
Title: Re: Could be worse...Hamilton Traded
Post by: Roy H. on June 27, 2015, 06:50:12 PM
The NBA equivalent would be trading DeMarcus Cousins for draft picks, and then selecting Jordan Mickey with a lottery pick.

I think you are being too tough on the Bruins.  Trading Hamilton is more like trading Victor Oladipo or Ben McLemore.  Hamilton has not done anything to put himself into the Cousins comparable territory.  As far as who they picked, I know nothing about them.  If you are right and they all turn out to be Jordan Mickey, that will be sad but I have my doubts that it is that dire.

The experts who grade these things gave the Bruins an "F" for the draft pick they acquired in the Hamilton grade.  That's about the equivalent of taking Jordan Mickey in the lottery, or maybe even worse.

Is Hamilton the equivalent of DeMarcus Cousins?  No, because one player in hockey doesn't have the impact a basketball player does.  However, He's a 22 year old #1 defenseman with a superstar skill set.  He's been projected as a potential future Norris Trophy winner.  Even though he won't reach his full potential for two or three more seasons, he's already producing like a #1 defender in all three zones.

The trade is unjustifiable, and wasting the draft pick on a guy with a mid-second round grade makes it even worse.
Title: Re: Could be worse...Hamilton Traded
Post by: Smokeeye123 on June 27, 2015, 06:53:47 PM
Bruins are making me sad...They had the best record in the NHL 2 seasons ago and look how far theyve fallen.

Just horrible management and contracts given out. I read that they gave Mquaid a 2.75mil a year contract yesterday!? That guy is easily replaceable! It's these kind of back of the roster deals that kill your cap space.
Title: Re: Could be worse...Hamilton Traded
Post by: PhoSita on June 27, 2015, 07:02:41 PM
Seems like the Bruins are tanking.  Intentionally or not.
Title: Re: Could be worse...Hamilton Traded
Post by: BringToughnessBack on June 27, 2015, 07:04:55 PM
Unfortunately, the Bruins remind me of the Athletics but worse management. It is criminal how they butchered that championship team.
Title: Re: Could be worse...Hamilton Traded
Post by: Vermont Green on June 27, 2015, 07:46:06 PM
The NBA equivalent would be trading DeMarcus Cousins for draft picks, and then selecting Jordan Mickey with a lottery pick.

I think you are being too tough on the Bruins.  Trading Hamilton is more like trading Victor Oladipo or Ben McLemore.  Hamilton has not done anything to put himself into the Cousins comparable territory.  As far as who they picked, I know nothing about them.  If you are right and they all turn out to be Jordan Mickey, that will be sad but I have my doubts that it is that dire.

The experts who grade these things gave the Bruins an "F" for the draft pick they acquired in the Hamilton grade.  That's about the equivalent of taking Jordan Mickey in the lottery, or maybe even worse.

Is Hamilton the equivalent of DeMarcus Cousins?  No, because one player in hockey doesn't have the impact a basketball player does.  However, He's a 22 year old #1 defenseman with a superstar skill set.  He's been projected as a potential future Norris Trophy winner.   Even though he won't reach his full potential for two or three more seasons, he's already producing like a #1 defender in all three zones.

The trade is unjustifiable, and wasting the draft pick on a guy with a mid-second round grade makes it even worse.

As far as the draft picks, I don't know as I said but even if one of them turns out to be a bust, they have 3 picks in the top 52.  Hockey has 7 rounds, basketball 2 (ratio 3.5).  That means #15, #45, and #52 are the hockey equivalent of #4, #12, and #15 in basketball.  I still say what the Bruins did is the hockey equivalent of trading Victor Oladipo (with a worse contract situation) for #4, #12, and #15.

Now if the Bruins screw up the picks, that is a different issue altogether.  Of those 3 picks, I predict one will surprise, one will bust, and one will be about what you expect.  Now the Flames may lose Hamilton in FA, they may have a star for several years, or Hamilton may level off and never fulfill his promise.
Title: Re: Could be worse...Hamilton Traded
Post by: Roy H. on June 27, 2015, 08:01:54 PM
Quote
I still say what the Bruins did is the hockey equivalent of trading Victor Oladipo (with a worse contract situation) for #4, #12, and #15.

I don't think there's any validity to this argument at all.  If there were, Sweeney should be named Executive Of The Year immediately.

But, by that logic, the Bs already had the equivalent of the #4 pick, and they traded Lucic for the same equivalent.  So, three top-4 picks, #12, and #15.  The Bruins are clearly building a dynasty.
Title: Re: Could be worse...Hamilton Traded
Post by: Roy H. on June 30, 2015, 02:15:24 PM
Hamilton signs in Calgary for 6 years, $34.5 million.

Unreal.  That's extremely reasonable.
Title: Re: Could be worse...Hamilton Traded
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on June 30, 2015, 02:23:36 PM
Hamilton signs in Calgary for 6 years, $34.5 million.

Unreal.  That's extremely reasonable.

Less than $6mil a year for a franchise defenseman? Heck, yes.

Don't worry, though, Adam McQuaid will be locking guys down.  ;D
Title: Re: Could be worse...Hamilton Traded
Post by: Jonny CC on June 30, 2015, 02:26:49 PM
Hamilton signs in Calgary for 6 years, $34.5 million.

Unreal.  That's extremely reasonable.

It was reported that the B's offered $5.5 per year.  Hamilton signs for $5.75 per year.  What a kick in the balls.

Funny how the spin machine is now reporting that Hamilton wasn't liked by his teammates.  Garbage.  Can't wait to watch him and Seguin at the All Star games.
Title: Re: Could be worse...Hamilton Traded
Post by: Donoghus on June 30, 2015, 02:31:44 PM
Hamilton signs in Calgary for 6 years, $34.5 million.

Unreal.  That's extremely reasonable.

It was reported that the B's offered $5.5 per year.  Hamilton signs for $5.75 per year.  What a kick in the balls.

Funny how the spin machine is now reporting that Hamilton wasn't liked by his teammates.  Garbage.  Can't wait to watch him and Seguin at the All Star games.

Yeah, gotta love the smearing campaigns the NESN teams (Bruins & Red Sox) tend to do when guys that leave town.   ::)

Chiarelli certainly helped dig the hole they were in (overpaid role players) and the such but I can't say I'm exactly seeing the light that Sweeney is trying to get to, either. 

It's a shame because they really did have a decent run that, unfortunately, will be remembered for the failures as much as that one cup. 
Title: Re: Could be worse...Hamilton Traded
Post by: slamtheking on June 30, 2015, 03:03:06 PM
reading this, I'm so glad I'm a Kings fan.  thank you for Lucic by the way.  torn as to whether he'll have a typical Ex-Bruin year and tear things up or have a typical new-King year and underwhelm.

sometimes it's better to be lucky than good and thankfully the Kings have been lucky for 2 postseasons runs recently so I can't really complain.  I'd be slitting my wrists if I was a B's fan. 

as to what someone said earlier about the B's being the worst run franchise  in all of sports, I can offer 2 other more pathetic examples -- my Milwaukee Brewers and Washington Redskins.  now those franchises are just bringing me to tears and make the Bruins look like geniuses.
Title: Re: Could be worse...Hamilton Traded
Post by: Vermont Green on June 30, 2015, 03:29:01 PM
Less than $6mil a year for a franchise defenseman? Heck, yes.

I agree that a "franchise" defenseman such as Chara is very valuable; like a very good #1 starter makes the whole pitching staff better or a shutdown corner makes the whole secondary better, a franchise defenseman makes the entire defensive rotation better.

I am just not sure it is a given that Hamilton is going to be that kind of a defenseman.  To me, he certainly showed flashes of skill and speed but lacked the kind of gritty consistency that a defenseman needs.  Mistakes can end up in the back of the net so that consistency or discipline or whatever you call it, is very important.  I did not see that in Hamilton and I am guessing that the talent evaluation team with the Bruins came to a similar conclusion.

I can't rule out that the Bruins did this more based on attitude send a message or some other more political aspect over pure talent.  They get to see him everyday in practice so I hope this is about their projection of his talent and trading him for 3 really good picks (think of this as trading one player for a first and 2 seconds in football, that is a lot of value) to build team depth.  Either way, it is not an absolute that the Bruins just traded the equivalent of Keith or Suppan.

(seems like I am a lone voice here)
Title: Re: Could be worse...Hamilton Traded
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on June 30, 2015, 03:37:30 PM
Less than $6mil a year for a franchise defenseman? Heck, yes.

I agree that a "franchise" defenseman such as Chara is very valuable; like a very good #1 starter makes the whole pitching staff better or a shutdown corner makes the whole secondary better, a franchise defenseman makes the entire defensive rotation better.

I am just not sure it is a given that Hamilton is going to be that kind of a defenseman.  To me, he certainly showed flashes of skill and speed but lacked the kind of gritty consistency that a defenseman needs.  Mistakes can end up in the back of the net so that consistency or discipline or whatever you call it, is very important.  I did not see that in Hamilton and I am guessing that the talent evaluation team with the Bruins came to a similar conclusion.

I can't rule out that the Bruins did this more based on attitude send a message or some other more political aspect over pure talent.  They get to see him everyday in practice so I hope this is about their projection of his talent and trading him for 3 really good picks (think of this as trading one player for a first and 2 seconds in football, that is a lot of value) to build team depth.  Either way, it is not an absolute that the Bruins just traded the equivalent of Keith or Suppan.

(seems like I am a lone voice here)

No, you very well could be right. Only time will tell.
Title: Re: Could be worse...Hamilton Traded
Post by: sadleprechaun on June 30, 2015, 04:00:06 PM
The Bruins' recent moves scream incompetence:

1) People around the league seem to be in agreement that they could have (and should have) gotten more for Hamilton.

2) Signing McQuaid to a 4-year deal at $2.75/yr isn't a good use of resources for a team with cap issues.

3) Picking Senyshyn at #15 was clearly a reach, and the experts say there's no doubt that the Bruins could have traded down if they really wanted him, acquiring extra assets in the process.

These feel like the mistakes of a rookie GM.  Just one of the above errors would make me worried about the future.  Put them together and it might take years to undo the damage.  And Sweeney isn't done yet!

If the Bruins wanted to win in the short term, Hamilton should have been a priority.  If they felt like their cap situation was too much of a mess, and they needed to rebuild, then they should have gone after the #3 pick and explored trading Rask and going with Martin Jones.

None of the moves in the Sweeney era make sense to me.  What am I missing?  Can ANYONE explain the logic behind these moves?
Title: Re: Could be worse...Hamilton Traded
Post by: Roy H. on June 30, 2015, 04:13:23 PM

None of the moves in the Sweeney era make sense to me.  What am I missing?  Can ANYONE explain the logic behind these moves?

The Lucic one was the only one that made any level of sense to me, and they squandered that by wasting the first rounder.
Title: Re: Could be worse...Hamilton Traded
Post by: SparzWizard on June 30, 2015, 04:24:29 PM
It's okay guise...we still got the Patriots, the other Boston team that has recently brought home a championship!  ;D

But I am still waiting for the Celtics to bring one home, and soon.
Title: Re: Could be worse...Hamilton Traded
Post by: sadleprechaun on June 30, 2015, 04:31:53 PM

None of the moves in the Sweeney era make sense to me.  What am I missing?  Can ANYONE explain the logic behind these moves?

The Lucic one was the only one that made any level of sense to me, and they squandered that by wasting the first rounder.

Agreed--the Lucic deal makes sense...in isolation.  And I like the return that they got for Martin Jones, too.  But do you have any sense of what the big plan is? 

Even if it turns out that there's some truth to the Hamilton smear campaign that's building steam, I don't know how you justify the recent decisions.

Title: Re: Could be worse...Hamilton Traded
Post by: Smokeeye123 on June 30, 2015, 04:39:56 PM

None of the moves in the Sweeney era make sense to me.  What am I missing?  Can ANYONE explain the logic behind these moves?

The Lucic one was the only one that made any level of sense to me, and they squandered that by wasting the first rounder.

We just traded the backup goalie we got for a 2016 first rounder from the Sharks that has a decent chance of being a lottery pick. So essentially it was Lucic for a mid and high first round pick which is a great haul. Unlike the NBA, first round picks no matter the location have a high value.

I don't think the team wanted to resign Hamilton. He is good but I don't think he'll ever be great. Only deal I'm mad about is resigning Mquaid.
Title: Re: Could be worse...Hamilton Traded
Post by: Smokeeye123 on June 30, 2015, 04:44:39 PM
Also I know it will be unpopular, but I would seriously consider trading Zdeno Chara. By the time we have loaded up again 2016/2017 he will be on his last legs.

You have Bergeron, Rask, and Krejci build around that. That is good enough of a core to build on the fly.
Title: Re: Could be worse...Hamilton Traded
Post by: sadleprechaun on June 30, 2015, 04:47:49 PM
Also I know it will be unpopular, but I would seriously consider trading Zdeno Chara. By the time we have loaded up again 2016/2017 he will be on his last legs.

You have Bergeron, Rask, and Krejci build around that. That is good enough of a core to build on the fly.

Agreed.  With the moves they've made so far, dealing Chara would make sense now.  We'll see if they do what makes sense.
Title: Re: Could be worse...Hamilton Traded
Post by: Jonny CC on June 30, 2015, 05:07:33 PM
Less than $6mil a year for a franchise defenseman? Heck, yes.

I agree that a "franchise" defenseman such as Chara is very valuable; like a very good #1 starter makes the whole pitching staff better or a shutdown corner makes the whole secondary better, a franchise defenseman makes the entire defensive rotation better.

I am just not sure it is a given that Hamilton is going to be that kind of a defenseman.  To me, he certainly showed flashes of skill and speed but lacked the kind of gritty consistency that a defenseman needs.  Mistakes can end up in the back of the net so that consistency or discipline or whatever you call it, is very important.  I did not see that in Hamilton and I am guessing that the talent evaluation team with the Bruins came to a similar conclusion.

I can't rule out that the Bruins did this more based on attitude send a message or some other more political aspect over pure talent.  They get to see him everyday in practice so I hope this is about their projection of his talent and trading him for 3 really good picks (think of this as trading one player for a first and 2 seconds in football, that is a lot of value) to build team depth.  Either way, it is not an absolute that the Bruins just traded the equivalent of Keith or Suppan.

(seems like I am a lone voice here)

No, you very well could be right. Only time will tell.

You are right....Hamilton may not be a franchise defeseman but he wasn't asking to be paid like one.  Franchise d-men get paid $7mil + a year.  What Hamilton signed for is very reasonable for his current skill level.  If you factor in his age and potential to be a franchise d-man, then the Bruins blew it...BIG time. 
That being said, I am a season ticket holder for the Providence Bruins so I have watched a lot of games and they have some good prospects (Morrow, Trotman, Arnesson).
Title: Re: Could be worse...Hamilton Traded
Post by: Vermont Green on June 30, 2015, 05:15:44 PM
Also I know it will be unpopular, but I would seriously consider trading Zdeno Chara. By the time we have loaded up again 2016/2017 he will be on his last legs.

You have Bergeron, Rask, and Krejci build around that. That is good enough of a core to build on the fly.

Agreed.  With the moves they've made so far, dealing Chara would make sense now.  We'll see if they do what makes sense.

Chara was not himself last year.  Very hard to say if he can bounce back or not, at his age and on what may not be all that good of a team.  I think they will start the season with him, see how he plays, see how desperate someone is at the trade deadline, and then if you can get value, yeah, trading him has to be on the table.