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Around the League => The Draft => Topic started by: Monkhouse on March 26, 2014, 03:42:45 PM

Title: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: Monkhouse on March 26, 2014, 03:42:45 PM
Quote
In a wide-ranging talk with season ticket holders earlier this week, Celtics president of basketball operations Danny Ainge said the team will target a rim protector in the draft, notes Baxter Holmes of The Boston Globe.

Interesting... The real question is, does this mean DA is smoke screening, trying to move up a pick or two, or possibly package for a superstar/build a team from the draft?
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: Evantime34 on March 26, 2014, 03:51:10 PM
Other than Embiid and Willie Cauley Stein I can't think of a lot of guys who project to be good rim protectors at the next level. Unless you count Aaron Gordon as a rim protector at the 3. Maybe they will target a big man through trade in the draft.
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: Lucky17 on March 26, 2014, 03:51:59 PM
Capela?
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: snively on March 26, 2014, 04:08:54 PM
I'm pretty sure he just said the team needed rim protection, not that he would target that need with his draft pick.
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: slamtheking on March 26, 2014, 04:43:41 PM
I'm pretty sure he just said the team needed rim protection, not that he would target that need with his draft pick.
that would make a lot more sense.  no reason to hem himself into a certain type of player when we need help everywhere
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: CFAN38 on March 26, 2014, 05:01:10 PM
Other than Embiid and Willie Cauley Stein I can't think of a lot of guys who project to be good rim protectors at the next level. Unless you count Aaron Gordon as a rim protector at the 3. Maybe they will target a big man through trade in the draft.

I would also add Clint Capela to the list of rim protectors in this draft. However I think he is a ways from contributing.

As others have said I think DA was saying they need a rim protector for next year not necessarily through the draft. I expect another push for Asik likely in a trade involving the nets pick and Bass or Bogans. I'm a fan of the previous stated theory that DA and his friend Morey
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: Tr1boy on March 26, 2014, 05:08:52 PM
Sounds like to me it doesnt necessarily mean he will draft a rim protector and could trade for one (Asik).

If via draft guys who will be nba ready to protect the rim are embiid, gordon,  mcdniel, bachynski, nick johnson. Guys not ready to play but have rim protecting capabilities are capela, wcs, aj hammonds, grant

I hope myself we get gordon. And nick johnson with our 2nd pick to take over AB if not back would really boost our defense and rim protecting ability
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: CFAN38 on March 26, 2014, 05:38:34 PM
One observation, I think people in this post are looking at the term "Rim Protector" to mean players who will play great defense and prevent their man from penetrating to the rim. Its my understanding that when Ainge is refers to a "Rim Protector" he is talking about a big man who is capable or rotating away from his man in the paint and preventing easy high percentage baskets. I have noted in other posts that these are typically big men with at least average mobility and standing reaches over 9'2".

Examples in current NBA: D Howard, L Sanders, Asik, KG, Duncan

Examples in the past: Russell, Hakeem, Wilt, Mutombo, Shaq, Mourning, Ostertag, Smits
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: BballTim on March 26, 2014, 06:16:25 PM


   If he doesn't look into getting a rim protector through some means then he's probably not the right guy for the job.
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: 86MaxwellSmart on March 26, 2014, 06:27:33 PM
Hey Now...Larry Sanders.
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: PhoSita on March 26, 2014, 06:33:22 PM


   If he doesn't look into getting a rim protector through some means then he's probably not the right guy for the job.

Yeah, I mean, it's the most obvious, glaring need on our team right now.  The easiest way to improve the squad for next year would be to try to find a player who can fill that hole in the middle on defense, even if it's just a modest move for a stop-gap solution like Timofey Mozgov.
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: TheTruthFot18 on March 26, 2014, 06:34:56 PM


   If he doesn't look into getting a rim protector through some means then he's probably not the right guy for the job.

Yeah, I mean, it's the most obvious, glaring need on our team right now.  The easiest way to improve the squad for next year would be to try to find a player who can fill that hole in the middle on defense, even if it's just a modest move for a stop-gap solution like Timofey Mozgov.

I always look for the Gasols, Noahs, and Cousins when thinking centers. Mozgov is a good option as you say for a short term holdover. Either way we need someone at the 5
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: JBcat on March 26, 2014, 07:06:48 PM
Hey Now...Larry Sanders.

Danny could take a chance on him especially if the Zbucks draft Embiid.  If the Sixers draft Embiid maybe Noel could be a target, that's if Noel can play center.  Or maybe draft Vonleh if Ainge see's potential there.
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: hpantazo on March 26, 2014, 07:14:17 PM
maybe he already has good indications that he can get Asik for cap relief from the Rockets now that they want to go after Melo.
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: #1P4P on March 26, 2014, 08:46:46 PM
It depends on what you have to concede in a trade for a rim protector and if you can actually get one in the draft. Washington traded their 1st (#16 subject to change) for Gortat and that is looked at as a win for Phoenix even though Gortat is averaging 12 and 9.

Rim protectors are at a premium, you have to empty the cupboard for one unless they're unproven (which is why I was dumbfounded when posters here didn't like the KG and Doc for DeAndre and a 1st trade) or there's 2 on 1 team (Howard+Asik and Sanders+Embiid?).

If Asik is made available for 1 or 2 of Bass/Wallace/Humphries/Bayless/2nd round picks, he should be the target. If Houston demands an asset, you hold or move on (like what happened in December). Asik is a good player, but if you have to give up anything more than the Clippers 2015 1st, you're giving up too much value for Asik on a 1 year $15M contract in a Rockets situation that he's not going to be in past 2015.

If Sanders is made available for BKN's 2014 1st and/or LAC's 2015 1st, he should be seriously considered.

If the Celtics brass thinks they can draft one that can be better than those 2 in the near future, you draft him.
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: JBcat on March 26, 2014, 10:00:59 PM
Would anyone offer any part of the mid level exception for someone like Greg Oden or Emeka Okafer?
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: crimson_stallion on March 26, 2014, 10:10:41 PM
Would anyone offer any part of the mid level exception for someone like Greg Oden or Emeka Okafer?

Absolutely. 

I especially like the sound of Okafor.  He's a rim protector and a strong rebounder who is also a capable finisher around the basket, and he could probably be acquired for a reasonable price. 

Far better option than someone like Asik who is zero shot-blocking threat, an offensive liability, way overpriced and has a poor attitude.
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: crimson_stallion on March 26, 2014, 10:18:01 PM
It depends on what you have to concede in a trade for a rim protector and if you can actually get one in the draft. Washington traded their 1st (#16 subject to change) for Gortat and that is looked at as a win for Phoenix even though Gortat is averaging 12 and 9.

Rim protectors are at a premium, you have to empty the cupboard for one unless they're unproven (which is why I was dumbfounded when posters here didn't like the KG and Doc for DeAndre and a 1st trade) or there's 2 on 1 team (Howard+Asik and Sanders+Embiid?).

If Asik is made available for 1 or 2 of Bass/Wallace/Humphries/Bayless/2nd round picks, he should be the target. If Houston demands an asset, you hold or move on (like what happened in December). Asik is a good player, but if you have to give up anything more than the Clippers 2015 1st, you're giving up too much value for Asik on a 1 year $15M contract in a Rockets situation that he's not going to be in past 2015.

If Sanders is made available for BKN's 2014 1st and/or LAC's 2015 1st, he should be seriously considered.

If the Celtics brass thinks they can draft one that can be better than those 2 in the near future, you draft him.

Why?

I would argue that Bass and Humphreys are both FAR better players than Asik. 

Asik is just a really, really bad player.  His only real upside is that he is a very good rebounder...but so is Hump.  IIRC both Bass and Hump have blocked more shots (per 36 minutes) than Asik has this season, so the whole 'reputation as a rim protector' think really perplexes me with Asik.

Plus Hump and Bass are obviously both infinitely better on offense.

Given the choice of Hump vs Asik at the same price, I'd take Hump any day. He's more skilled, he plays harder and he has a better attitude.
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: LarBrd33 on March 26, 2014, 10:24:06 PM
Would anyone offer any part of the mid level exception for someone like Greg Oden or Emeka Okafer?
If Oden is healthy enough to play 30+ minutes, I give him the full MLE easily.

He's playing limited minutes, but he's been pretty darn effective in those minutes.  The guy can still play.
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: Humble G on March 26, 2014, 10:36:58 PM
One observation, I think people in this post are looking at the term "Rim Protector" to mean players who will play great defense and prevent their man from penetrating to the rim. Its my understanding that when Ainge is refers to a "Rim Protector" he is talking about a big man who is capable or rotating away from his man in the paint and preventing easy high percentage baskets. I have noted in other posts that these are typically big men with at least average mobility and standing reaches over 9'2".

Examples in current NBA: D Howard, L Sanders, Asik, KG, Duncan

Examples in the past: Russell, Hakeem, Wilt, Mutombo, Shaq, Mourning, Ostertag, Smits

I agree but how do u forget maybe the best rim protector in the league right now.....HIBBERT! Not to mention Ibka and i know he is young but unibrow might be leading the league in blocks :-)
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: obnoxiousmime on March 27, 2014, 01:50:09 AM
Honestly those names are not very exciting to me (Oden, Asik, Okafor) but it just shows how tough it is to find a defensive big man who also has a modicum of offensive ability. That's why you still have to consider Embiid with the first pick unless there's a Durant or LeBron can't miss wing guy available the same year. I'm not sure Wiggins or Parker qualify though I think both will be quality players.

Unless they are fortunate enough to draft Embiid I wonder where they get a good enough C unless they trade for Marc Gasol. The pace of the rebuild is going to depend largely on how long it takes for them to acquire or develop a capable 5.
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: SHAQATTACK on March 27, 2014, 07:26:15 AM
It seems the really bad teams get all the centers .

Only to lose them to the Lakers in a few years .
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: HomerSapien on March 27, 2014, 08:00:24 AM
Would anyone offer any part of the mid level exception for someone like Greg Oden or Emeka Okafer?

Yes. I prefer something like this over trading a first round pick for Asik. My 1st choice would be to luck out and draft Embiid but even with or without him I'd like one of Okafor, Mozgov via trade, or Oden. Sanders is also interesting, but probably in a different price range from the other 3.

Depending on how he finishes this season, Oden might be the most interesting option for the Celtics longer-term. We'd have to temper expectations for next season though. I say he probably couldn't be expected to play more than 20 minutes per game on average at most. But over a 2 to 3 season time frame if that 20 minutes stretched to 30 minutes he'd be an ideal rim protector to continue to develop along with the rest of this young team. Obviously, for this to happen it would also require a major change in his injury tendencies to support the minutes expansion but if he's cheap enough it would be worth the risk.
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: pearljammer10 on March 27, 2014, 08:29:20 AM
Aren't the Celtics always in search of a rim protecting big? We just can never get one.

I would add Harrell to the list of potential rim protecting big. I know he is only 6' 6''...(or 6' 8'' depending on what website you look at) but with the standing reach of 8' 11'' and his crazy athleticism he might be able to make a difference even though he is undersized.

Okafor would be a great pick up for the MLE however, Im not sure if he would be able to stay healthy.
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: CFAN38 on March 27, 2014, 08:58:23 AM
STATS

http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingDefense.html?pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=25&sortField=FGP_DEFEND_RIM&sortOrder=ASC&filters=MIN*GE*25**BLK*GE*1


The column on the fare right Is the "Opponent FG% at the rim" meaning the % that the opponent makes close shots while the listed player is on the court.

To make this stat a more true representation of "Rim Protectors" I have cut out any player with less then 1blk per game and playing less then 25 min. The min restriction eliminated some great bench rim protectors like Biyombo but also cut out some straggling wing players.
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: Smokeeye123 on March 27, 2014, 09:01:20 AM
Embiid just declared for the draft so lets just draft him :)
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: Fafnir on March 27, 2014, 09:02:54 AM
Would anyone offer any part of the mid level exception for someone like Greg Oden or Emeka Okafer?
If Oden is healthy enough to play 30+ minutes, I give him the full MLE easily.

He's playing limited minutes, but he's been pretty darn effective in those minutes.  The guy can still play.
He hasn't been health enough to play 10 MPG. If he could play full minutes and not foul like crazy he'd be starting caliber probably.

Neither of those things is going to happen.
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: CFAN38 on March 27, 2014, 09:03:39 AM
Embiid just declared for the draft so lets just draft him :)

great news,
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: Fafnir on March 27, 2014, 09:03:40 AM
Embiid just declared for the draft so lets just draft him :)
Good for him and the C's. Even if we don't get him he's just more talent in the draft pool.
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: TwinTower14 on March 27, 2014, 09:18:30 AM
Embiid just declared for the draft so lets just draft him :)
Good for him and the C's. Even if we don't get him he's just more talent in the draft pool.

I agree, Embiid is the guy for me, never really believed him or Parker would stay.
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: D.o.s. on March 27, 2014, 09:22:03 AM
Embiid just declared for the draft so lets just draft him :)

No wait LooseCannon and LrBrd33 totally told us he was going to be staying for another year...
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: CoachBo on March 27, 2014, 09:27:09 AM
Embiid is NOT going to be any immediate help.

He is too thin, and too injury-prone.

He has tremendous potential - but we all know that potential doesn't always translate into reality.
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: Celtics4ever on March 27, 2014, 09:31:22 AM
Quote
He's playing limited minutes, but he's been pretty darn effective in those minutes.  The guy can still play.

Maybe the whole reason he is effective is the limited minutes.  More minutes could mean his injuries flare up or he breaks down.

I never bet on a boxer with a glass jaw, why should we bet on a ballplayer with glass legs?  I am glad he is getting time on the court lately, as his story is tragic.
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: TwinTower14 on March 27, 2014, 09:40:06 AM
Embiid is NOT going to be any immediate help.

He is too thin, and too injury-prone.

He has tremendous potential - but we all know that potential doesn't always translate into reality.

C's land him he would be the starting C from day one. He is not that far off and his frame isn't that small. Already carries about 250lbs, he will be the best player out of this draft.
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: TwinTower14 on March 27, 2014, 09:47:42 AM
Him going pro is a no brainer! He needs to get on a program ASAP!  As long as his back checks out, which he seems it will. He is the top pick. There are only a handful of people on this planet that are 7'0 and as gifted as he is. When one enters the draft you take him. When he was on the court this year he was the most dominating force in college basketball and at the rate he developed its apparent that he can take coaching and apply it to his craft. I am not worried about his body breaking down.  Once  he gets with a team they will have him on the right path. In terms of diet, working out etc...if the C's get the number one pick I would hope DA would take him.
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: HomerSapien on March 27, 2014, 06:32:41 PM
Quote
C's land him he would be the starting C from day one. He is not that far off and his frame isn't that small. Already carries about 250lbs, he will be the best player out of this draft.

I agree with you that if he stays healthy he will be the best player out of this draft.  If he lands on the C's though, I hope they sign another NBA quality center so that they can manage his minutes carefully in year 1.  Between the back issues, his somewhat thin frame, and the jump from a 30 game schedule to an 82 game schedule I'd like to see them bring him along on the slow side, with priority #1 being ensuring that his body develops to be able to sustain the abuse and wear and tear it will face in the NBA.

I think because his skills are so high, there will be the temptation to play him more than they should early in his career and I hope the priority is on sound physical development of his back and body first.
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: PhoSita on March 27, 2014, 07:01:32 PM
Embiid is NOT going to be any immediate help.

He is too thin, and too injury-prone.

He has tremendous potential - but we all know that potential doesn't always translate into reality.


If we get Embiid, I'd be bullish on how good a player he could be for us a couple years down the road.

But I agree, in his first season I think Embiid would probably be rested heavily, play relatively short minutes, and probably end up averaging less than 10 points and less than 8 rebounds.
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: Surferdad on March 27, 2014, 08:27:55 PM
Him going pro is a no brainer! He needs to get on a program ASAP!  As long as his back checks out, which he seems it will. He is the top pick. There are only a handful of people on this planet that are 7'0 and as gifted as he is. When one enters the draft you take him. When he was on the court this year he was the most dominating force in college basketball and at the rate he developed its apparent that he can take coaching and apply it to his craft. I am not worried about his body breaking down.  Once  he gets with a team they will have him on the right path. In terms of diet, working out etc...if the C's get the number one pick I would hope DA would take him.
Trailblazers took Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan. How did that work out?
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: celts55 on March 27, 2014, 09:09:08 PM
Him going pro is a no brainer! He needs to get on a program ASAP!  As long as his back checks out, which he seems it will. He is the top pick. There are only a handful of people on this planet that are 7'0 and as gifted as he is. When one enters the draft you take him. When he was on the court this year he was the most dominating force in college basketball and at the rate he developed its apparent that he can take coaching and apply it to his craft. I am not worried about his body breaking down.  Once  he gets with a team they will have him on the right path. In terms of diet, working out etc...if the C's get the number one pick I would hope DA would take him.
Trailblazers took Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan. How did that work out?

Excellent for Bowie.
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: TwinTower14 on March 27, 2014, 09:09:11 PM
Him going pro is a no brainer! He needs to get on a program ASAP!  As long as his back checks out, which he seems it will. He is the top pick. There are only a handful of people on this planet that are 7'0 and as gifted as he is. When one enters the draft you take him. When he was on the court this year he was the most dominating force in college basketball and at the rate he developed its apparent that he can take coaching and apply it to his craft. I am not worried about his body breaking down.  Once  he gets with a team they will have him on the right path. In terms of diet, working out etc...if the C's get the number one pick I would hope DA would take him.
Trailblazers took Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan. How did that work out?

Yes that didn't workout but Shaq, Duncan, Ewing, Dream and Robinson worked out ok for their teams?  It's easier to find a small forward or guard than it is to find a dominate big man.
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: fitzhickey on March 27, 2014, 09:20:33 PM
Him going pro is a no brainer! He needs to get on a program ASAP!  As long as his back checks out, which he seems it will. He is the top pick. There are only a handful of people on this planet that are 7'0 and as gifted as he is. When one enters the draft you take him. When he was on the court this year he was the most dominating force in college basketball and at the rate he developed its apparent that he can take coaching and apply it to his craft. I am not worried about his body breaking down.  Once  he gets with a team they will have him on the right path. In terms of diet, working out etc...if the C's get the number one pick I would hope DA would take him.
Trailblazers took Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan. How did that work out?

Yes that didn't workout but Shaq, Duncan, Ewing, Dream and Robinson worked out ok for their teams?  It's easier to find a small forward or guard than it is to find a dominate big man.
There is truth in that bigs are rarer, but they also have more bust potential. They seem to be more injury prone, due to the extremely physical nature of a centers game and the strain their joints due to their size and weight.

If we are in the position to pick Embiid, we really should. Him next to Sully long term is awesome.
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: badax33 on March 28, 2014, 01:23:27 AM
I strongly disagree on Asik. 
The guy is a dominant defensive player. 
He can guard post players, the PNR and is a shot blocker.  He's also a good defensive rebounder and a very good offensive rebounder.
I suggest trading Jeff Green and our lottery pick for Asik and Houston pick (25 ish)  unless we get a top 3 pick, that changes things, but I expect to get the 4-6th pick which isn't as valuable in my mind.
I know people say too high, but defense wins games and championships.  Also, it's very unlikely that our lottery pick is dominant at anything.  Adding more young players delays our contending.  Although, I guess we all know that Danny is going to pull the trigger on a big deal sooner than later.
Next, I'd try and work a S&T for Loul Deng.  Reports are he's not happy with the poor atmosphere in Cleve.  We have a 10.3M TPE and I'd try to get him at that amount for 4 years and give Cleve Lac 1st round pick and a second first round pick.  BTW, that's the same deal Cleve got for Lebron.
That would give us Asik, Deng, Sully, Rondo and Bradley.  That's a pretty decent starting 5, we still have a decent bench - Bass, Olynck, Pressey, Johnson, Wallace and 2 first round picks.  Could use some more shooting, which should be available in the market.
I feel this is a playoff team and then maybe Danny can pry away KLove or Al Horford during the season for Sully/Olynck and picks.  Horford is probably a pipe dream but I'd expect Love to be in play, especially if Minn starts off slowly next year.
By being a good team, Asik, Rondo and Love (or Sully) are much more likely to stay than explore the FA market. 
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: LooseCannon on March 29, 2014, 08:31:34 PM
Embiid just declared for the draft so lets just draft him :)

No wait LooseCannon and LrBrd33 totally told us he was going to be staying for another year...

No, I just said it wasn't a guaranteed thing.
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: LooseCannon on March 29, 2014, 08:42:58 PM
I would argue that Bass and Humphreys are both FAR better players than Asik. 

Asik is just a really, really bad player.  His only real upside is that he is a very good rebounder...but so is Hump.  IIRC both Bass and Hump have blocked more shots (per 36 minutes) than Asik has this season, so the whole 'reputation as a rim protector' think really perplexes me with Asik.

Plus Hump and Bass are obviously both infinitely better on offense.

Given the choice of Hump vs Asik at the same price, I'd take Hump any day. He's more skilled, he plays harder and he has a better attitude.

To lump Humphries and Asik together as "very good" rebounders is to understate how good Asik is.  Humphries is a good rebounder, but the gap in rebounding ability between Asik and Humphries is still significant.

Shot blocking isn't the only aspect of rim protection.  Because it shows up in the box score and is easily quantifiable with highlight reel examples, it gets overrated in the same way that steals can be overrated as a measure of defense.

Asik is a good enough defender that I wouldn't see a problem with someone claiming that Asik is the best defensive player on the Rockets roster.

He is an elite rebounder who is capable of leading the league in rebounds.  He is an elite defender who is capable of winning Defensive Player of the Year (if you let him anchor the defense on a high-profile contender).
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: HomerSapien on March 29, 2014, 09:15:26 PM
I strongly disagree on Asik. 
The guy is a dominant defensive player. 
He can guard post players, the PNR and is a shot blocker.  He's also a good defensive rebounder and a very good offensive rebounder.
I suggest trading Jeff Green and our lottery pick for Asik and Houston pick (25 ish)  unless we get a top 3 pick, that changes things, but I expect to get the 4-6th pick which isn't as valuable in my mind.
I know people say too high, but defense wins games and championships.  Also, it's very unlikely that our lottery pick is dominant at anything.  Adding more young players delays our contending.  Although, I guess we all know that Danny is going to pull the trigger on a big deal sooner than later.
Next, I'd try and work a S&T for Loul Deng.  Reports are he's not happy with the poor atmosphere in Cleve.  We have a 10.3M TPE and I'd try to get him at that amount for 4 years and give Cleve Lac 1st round pick and a second first round pick.  BTW, that's the same deal Cleve got for Lebron.
That would give us Asik, Deng, Sully, Rondo and Bradley.  That's a pretty decent starting 5, we still have a decent bench - Bass, Olynck, Pressey, Johnson, Wallace and 2 first round picks.  Could use some more shooting, which should be available in the market.
I feel this is a playoff team and then maybe Danny can pry away KLove or Al Horford during the season for Sully/Olynck and picks.  Horford is probably a pipe dream but I'd expect Love to be in play, especially if Minn starts off slowly next year.
By being a good team, Asik, Rondo and Love (or Sully) are much more likely to stay than explore the FA market. 

I just can't see paying all that much to acquire Asik when the C's are still so far away from contending.  Young talent acquisition is a bigger priority.  If he's the long-term answer at center I'd just assume throwing cash at him in free agency in 2015 instead of giving up a pick now for the privilege of paying him $15M next season before he walks as a UFA next summer.

That team listed to me maxes out at 45 - 47 wins and doesn't really give us the opportunity to grow into a squad that can compete with the likes of the Heat, Pacers, Bulls, and about 9 teams in the West.
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: fitzhickey on March 29, 2014, 09:25:41 PM
I would argue that Bass and Humphreys are both FAR better players than Asik. 

Asik is just a really, really bad player.  His only real upside is that he is a very good rebounder...but so is Hump.  IIRC both Bass and Hump have blocked more shots (per 36 minutes) than Asik has this season, so the whole 'reputation as a rim protector' think really perplexes me with Asik.

Plus Hump and Bass are obviously both infinitely better on offense.

Given the choice of Hump vs Asik at the same price, I'd take Hump any day. He's more skilled, he plays harder and he has a better attitude.

To lump Humphries and Asik together as "very good" rebounders is to understate how good Asik is.  Humphries is a good rebounder, but the gap in rebounding ability between Asik and Humphries is still significant.

Shot blocking isn't the only aspect of rim protection.  Because it shows up in the box score and is easily quantifiable with highlight reel examples, it gets overrated in the same way that steals can be overrated as a measure of defense.

Asik is a good enough defender that I wouldn't see a problem with someone claiming that Asik is the best defensive player on the Rockets roster.

He is an elite rebounder who is capable of leading the league in rebounds.  He is an elite defender who is capable of winning Defensive Player of the Year (if you let him anchor the defense on a high-profile contender).
I don't think Asik is the best defender on Houston. IMO both dwight and p-bev are better
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: #1P4P on March 29, 2014, 10:48:27 PM
Why?

I would argue that Bass and Humphreys are both FAR better players than Asik

Asik is just a really, really bad player.  His only real upside is that he is a very good rebounder...but so is Hump.  IIRC both Bass and Hump have blocked more shots (per 36 minutes) than Asik has this season, so the whole 'reputation as a rim protector' think really perplexes me with Asik.

Plus Hump and Bass are obviously both infinitely better on offense.

Given the choice of Hump vs Asik at the same price, I'd take Hump any day. He's more skilled, he plays harder and he has a better attitude.

I would argue that rim protection, in general, perplexes you. Building your argument on an uninformed opinion and Blocks per 36, is equal to building on quick sand...

What I highlighted in bold is opinion... The only factual evidence you provided was Blocks per 36, a stat that I will expose as a misleading barometer for rim protection.

Mark Gasol (2013 DPOY and recognized as one of the best rim protectors in the NBA) is 71st in Blocks per 36. Joakim Noah, this year's leading DPOY candidate and a perennial candidate if he weren't so injury prone, is 67th...

How are they considered top defensive players, rim protectors, and anchoring 2 of the best defenses in the NBA despite there being 60+ players that are higher ranked than them in Blk per 36?

Answer that question, compare Asik's defense to them, how well Omer did in extended minutes despite playing in one of the fastest paced offenses, and you'll reconsider your argument.
Title: Re: Danny Ainge may target a rim protecting big
Post by: CFAN38 on March 31, 2014, 07:32:48 AM
Why?

I would argue that Bass and Humphreys are both FAR better players than Asik

Asik is just a really, really bad player.  His only real upside is that he is a very good rebounder...but so is Hump.  IIRC both Bass and Hump have blocked more shots (per 36 minutes) than Asik has this season, so the whole 'reputation as a rim protector' think really perplexes me with Asik.

Plus Hump and Bass are obviously both infinitely better on offense.

Given the choice of Hump vs Asik at the same price, I'd take Hump any day. He's more skilled, he plays harder and he has a better attitude.

I would argue that rim protection, in general, perplexes you. Building your argument on an uninformed opinion and Blocks per 36, is equal to building on quick sand...

What I highlighted in bold is opinion... The only factual evidence you provided was Blocks per 36, a stat that I will expose as a misleading barometer for rim protection.

Mark Gasol (2013 DPOY and recognized as one of the best rim protectors in the NBA) is 71st in Blocks per 36. Joakim Noah, this year's leading DPOY candidate and a perennial candidate if he weren't so injury prone, is 67th...

How are they considered top defensive players, rim protectors, and anchoring 2 of the best defenses in the NBA despite there being 60+ players that are higher ranked than them in Blk per 36?

Answer that question, compare Asik's defense to them, how well Omer did in extended minutes despite playing in one of the fastest paced offenses, and you'll reconsider your argument.

x2 I agree

Bass and Humph are both likly better offensive players than Asik and Humph may be on pare as a rebounder but neither offer the team defense that Asik brings to the court.

Some stats to prove this

This year the top rim protectors based on FG% at rim on stats.nba.com who have played over 20min and 40 games. Also factoring .5 blk per game to cut out the wing outliers.

1. Hibbert at  41.6%
2. R Lopez at 42.7%
3. Ibaka at 43.7%

Im having trouble finding the Chart is old stats (still figuring out nb.com advanced stats) but searching online Asik FG% at rim last year as starting center for the rockets was 43.2%. This would make him the 3rd best this year. He averaged 10pt and 11.7RB that year.