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Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: csfansince60s on January 03, 2014, 06:39:56 PM

Title: Ken Berger: Cs have called about Lowry;LAC and MInn frontcourt help;Asik to stay
Post by: csfansince60s on January 03, 2014, 06:39:56 PM
Ken Berger of CBS Sports had some interesting tidbits today that either directly impact the Cs or tangentially.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/writer/ken-berger/24396660/asik-staying-put-for-now-and-more-nba-trade-buzz

1.According to Berger, the Cs are among teams to call the Raps about acquiring Kyle Lowry.

For the "trade Rondo" folk, this should be some food for thought or fuel for your fire or one of those metaphors.

2.Both the Clips and the TWolves are actively seeking frontcourt help. We've got that for them. What do they have that we want?

3. It looks more and more like Asik stays put:

Quote
Word is the Rockets now expect to keep center Omer Asik past next month's deadline and beyond. The team ramped up efforts to create a market for Asik last month because it believed that was the most realistic window to get a deal done. Now, Houston is caught in a bit of a no-man's land.

“Teams that are tanking don't want him to make them better and winning teams want to steal him,” one rival GM said.

Don't trust Morey as far as I can throw him, so I don't know what this means, but it does make some kind of sense.
Title: Re: Ken Berger: Cs have called about Lowry;LAC and MInn frontcourt help;Asik to stay
Post by: Lucky17 on January 03, 2014, 06:42:45 PM
Yeah, we were discussing Lowry earlier:

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=68869.0

I don't think it'd necessarily be a precursor to a Rondo trade. Ainge is all about stockpiling assets.

As for the Clips and TWolves looking for frontcourt help (Bass?), not sure what they could come up with.

Edit: not sure why the Wolves need frontcourt help, unless they need a backup C. Cunningham and the Fresh Prince can both play minutes at PF.
Title: Re: Ken Berger: Cs have called about Lowry;LAC and MInn frontcourt help;Asik to stay
Post by: fairweatherfan on January 03, 2014, 06:58:02 PM
The Asik thing sounds like more gamesmanship via the press by Houston.  Morey's not gonna give up on a trade with 6+ weeks to go.  They're just trying to talk up the market.
Title: Re: Ken Berger: Cs have called about Lowry;LAC and MInn frontcourt help;Asik to stay
Post by: csfansince60s on January 03, 2014, 06:58:37 PM
Yeah, we were discussing Lowry earlier:

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=68869.0

I don't think it'd necessarily be a precursor to a Rondo trade. Ainge is all about stockpiling assets.

As for the Clips and TWolves looking for frontcourt help (Bass?), not sure what they could come up with.

Edit: not sure why the Wolves need frontcourt help, unless they need a backup C. Cunningham and the Fresh Prince can both play minutes at PF.

Thanks Lucky,....+1 shoulda checked......
Title: Re: Ken Berger: Cs have called about Lowry;LAC and MInn frontcourt help;Asik to stay
Post by: Lucky17 on January 03, 2014, 07:00:02 PM
Yeah, we were discussing Lowry earlier:

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=68869.0

I don't think it'd necessarily be a precursor to a Rondo trade. Ainge is all about stockpiling assets.

As for the Clips and TWolves looking for frontcourt help (Bass?), not sure what they could come up with.

Edit: not sure why the Wolves need frontcourt help, unless they need a backup C. Cunningham and the Fresh Prince can both play minutes at PF.

Thanks Lucky,....+1 shoulda checked......

No worries. Check out the discussion there, there were some good points on Ainge potentially using the TE in a Lowry deal.
Title: Re: Ken Berger: Cs have called about Lowry;LAC and MInn frontcourt help;Asik to stay
Post by: Lucky17 on January 03, 2014, 07:04:20 PM
The Asik thing sounds like more gamesmanship via the press by Houston.  Morey's not gonna give up on a trade with 6+ weeks to go.  They're just trying to talk up the market.

That's a good point, FWF.
Title: Re: Ken Berger: Cs have called about Lowry;LAC and MInn frontcourt help;Asik to stay
Post by: Roy H. on January 03, 2014, 07:07:31 PM
Are Rockets' sources using Berger to try to create leverage?

The "Asik is staying" argument doesn't make a lot of sense to me, with the Rockets having to pay him $15 million next year.  I do agree that his contract will make him harder to deal next year, which is why I expect he'll be dealt this year.  (Teams just don't pay $15 million for their backup centers.)
Title: Re: Ken Berger: Cs have called about Lowry;LAC and MInn frontcourt help;Asik to stay
Post by: BleedGreen1989 on January 03, 2014, 07:11:12 PM
Are Rockets' sources using Berger to try to create leverage?

The "Asik is staying" argument doesn't make a lot of sense to me, with the Rockets having to pay him $15 million next year.  I do agree that his contract will make him harder to deal next year, which is why I expect he'll be dealt this year.  (Teams just don't pay $15 million for their backup centers.)

Factor in Jeremy Lin's poison pill of $15mill and the Rox ownership will be paying two bench players $30 million? Yeah right.

It doesn't matter if it doesn't all count against the cap, ownership isn't paying all that.
Title: Re: Ken Berger: Cs have called about Lowry;LAC and MInn frontcourt help;Asik to stay
Post by: gpap on January 03, 2014, 07:22:34 PM
Celts seem to be making an awful lot of calls and yet seem to be coming up with literally nothing to show for it.

Hope their phone bill isn't too expensive.
Title: Re: Ken Berger: Cs have called about Lowry;LAC and MInn frontcourt help;Asik to stay
Post by: Jailan34 on January 03, 2014, 07:33:32 PM
Yesterday I started a thread speculating that DA was pushing a trade or showcasing based on playing time. KO got very few minutes while Humph got over 20.

Now this story comes out about Minn and LAC looking for front court help.

Interesting stuff, those rotations made no sense other than showcasing humph for teams.

I wonder if Humph continues to get more minutes tonight.
Title: Re: Ken Berger: Cs have called about Lowry;LAC and MInn frontcourt help;Asik to stay
Post by: csfansince60s on January 03, 2014, 07:52:49 PM
Yeah, we were discussing Lowry earlier:

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=68869.0

I don't think it'd necessarily be a precursor to a Rondo trade. Ainge is all about stockpiling assets.

As for the Clips and TWolves looking for frontcourt help (Bass?), not sure what they could come up with.

Edit: not sure why the Wolves need frontcourt help, unless they need a backup C. Cunningham and the Fresh Prince can both play minutes at PF.

Thanks Lucky,....+1 shoulda checked......

No worries. Check out the discussion there, there were some good points on Ainge potentially using the TE in a Lowry deal.

That scenario would be good for us as we'll as Ujiri's seeming penchant for expirings (Hump /Bogans)
Title: Re: Ken Berger: Cs have called about Lowry;LAC and MInn frontcourt help;Asik to stay
Post by: csfansince60s on January 03, 2014, 08:01:55 PM
If expirings can get Lowry, how about Humphries and Crawford for Lowry and Fields.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=mc59mxe

We own Fields for an extra year, but getting Lowry for expirings might be worth it ANDit would put us an extra 2 mil under the luxury tax to give Ainge more room to maneuver.
Title: Re: Ken Berger: Cs have called about Lowry;LAC and MInn frontcourt help;Asik to stay
Post by: BballTim on January 03, 2014, 08:14:47 PM
Are Rockets' sources using Berger to try to create leverage?

The "Asik is staying" argument doesn't make a lot of sense to me, with the Rockets having to pay him $15 million next year.  I do agree that his contract will make him harder to deal next year, which is why I expect he'll be dealt this year.  (Teams just don't pay $15 million for their backup centers.)

  Yes, there's a certain "cutting your nose off to spite your face" aspect to keeping him, especially if he's not playing.
Title: Re: Ken Berger: Cs have called about Lowry;LAC and MInn frontcourt help;Asik to stay
Post by: nostar on January 03, 2014, 08:15:24 PM
Are Rockets' sources using Berger to try to create leverage?

The "Asik is staying" argument doesn't make a lot of sense to me, with the Rockets having to pay him $15 million next year.  I do agree that his contract will make him harder to deal next year, which is why I expect he'll be dealt this year.  (Teams just don't pay $15 million for their backup centers.)

That is what it sounds like. I can see there being very little market for Lin but Asik is still a productive defensive-minded center and there will always be a market for that. Asking for a 1st round pick is probably too high a price (mostly due to Asik's contract). I imagine they will wait until a playoff team gets an injury at center. That is probably the maximum leverage they can get at this point since every team know Asik is unhappy and looking to be traded.
Title: Re: Ken Berger: Cs have called about Lowry;LAC and MInn frontcourt help;Asik to stay
Post by: PhoSita on January 03, 2014, 08:19:23 PM
I get that Danny is into collecting assets, but trading for Lowry wouldn't make much sense unless the plan is to trade Rondo.

Lowry costs too much to be a backup; won't be able to get return on the investment unless he's starting.
Title: Re: Ken Berger: Cs have called about Lowry;LAC and MInn frontcourt help;Asik to stay
Post by: chicagoceltic on January 03, 2014, 08:49:52 PM
I may be mistaken but I thought that after all the Doc and KG to the Clippers trade talk that part of the final deal in the Doc trade was that we couldn't trade with the Clips this year...
Title: Re: Ken Berger: Cs have called about Lowry;LAC and MInn frontcourt help;Asik to stay
Post by: Roy H. on January 03, 2014, 08:53:55 PM
I may be mistaken but I thought that after all the Doc and KG to the Clippers trade talk that part of the final deal in the Doc trade was that we couldn't trade with the Clips this year...

Yep, that was the report.

https://twitter.com/KBergCBS/status/349633300039610368
Title: Re: Ken Berger: Cs have called about Lowry;LAC and MInn frontcourt help;Asik to stay
Post by: BballTim on January 03, 2014, 09:44:28 PM
I get that Danny is into collecting assets, but trading for Lowry wouldn't make much sense unless the plan is to trade Rondo.

Lowry costs too much to be a backup; won't be able to get return on the investment unless he's starting.

  I don't know that Lowry makes sense even if you do trade Rondo. Isn't he a FA this offseason? The two questions I'd have are how much (and for how long) you'd pay him and how long would it take for you to regret that contract?
Title: Re: Ken Berger: Cs have called about Lowry;LAC and MInn frontcourt help;Asik to stay
Post by: pokeKingCurtis on January 03, 2014, 10:13:03 PM
I get that Danny is into collecting assets, but trading for Lowry wouldn't make much sense unless the plan is to trade Rondo.

Lowry costs too much to be a backup; won't be able to get return on the investment unless he's starting.

  I don't know that Lowry makes sense even if you do trade Rondo. Isn't he a FA this offseason? The two questions I'd have are how much (and for how long) you'd pay him and how long would it take for you to regret that contract?

The report says the trade exception would be involved.

Better to try to sign and trade Lowry's expiring than let the TE expire?
Title: Re: Ken Berger: Cs have called about Lowry;LAC and MInn frontcourt help;Asik to stay
Post by: PhoSita on January 03, 2014, 10:59:22 PM
I get that Danny is into collecting assets, but trading for Lowry wouldn't make much sense unless the plan is to trade Rondo.

Lowry costs too much to be a backup; won't be able to get return on the investment unless he's starting.

  I don't know that Lowry makes sense even if you do trade Rondo. Isn't he a FA this offseason? The two questions I'd have are how much (and for how long) you'd pay him and how long would it take for you to regret that contract?

I'm with you; I don't really see the point in trading for Lowry since we'd have to give him a contract.  I think he's on the same level as guys like Felton, Chalmers, Dragic, Teague, Hill etc -- if you have a talented roster otherwise and you don't have to overpay for him to be your starter, that's solid.  Any of those guys, including Lowry, can have stretches where they play really well, too.

I don't see how Lowry could be a buy-low / sell-high guy (as Asik might have been), so unless there's some corresponding move to add a lot of talent elsewhere, I'm confused by this supposed interest.
Title: Re: Ken Berger: Cs have called about Lowry;LAC and MInn frontcourt help;Asik to stay
Post by: vjcsmoke on January 04, 2014, 03:53:48 AM
Don't want fields contract either.  He has half the PER of Humphries and twice the contract length.
Title: Re: Ken Berger: Cs have called about Lowry;LAC and MInn frontcourt help;Asik to stay
Post by: BballTim on January 04, 2014, 04:54:08 AM
I get that Danny is into collecting assets, but trading for Lowry wouldn't make much sense unless the plan is to trade Rondo.

Lowry costs too much to be a backup; won't be able to get return on the investment unless he's starting.

  I don't know that Lowry makes sense even if you do trade Rondo. Isn't he a FA this offseason? The two questions I'd have are how much (and for how long) you'd pay him and how long would it take for you to regret that contract?

The report says the trade exception would be involved.

Better to try to sign and trade Lowry's expiring than let the TE expire?

  That adds his entire salary to our total since we wouldn't be sending any contracts out, pushing us well into the luxury tax and putting us into the repeater category going forward. He's not worth going through that for.
Title: Re: Ken Berger: Cs have called about Lowry;LAC and MInn frontcourt help;Asik to stay
Post by: Mattson on January 04, 2014, 06:34:00 AM
You know what really annoys me? The fact that we never went after any young guys when Pierce and KG were still here. And by young I don't mean rookies or unproven guys. Players like Asik & Lowry could have really helped us ???

It would be nice to land those pieces now, too, don't get me wrong, but I don't get why suddenly we're after every young player on the block.
Title: Re: Ken Berger: Cs have called about Lowry;LAC and MInn frontcourt help;Asik to stay
Post by: D.o.s. on January 04, 2014, 10:20:10 AM
I get that Danny is into collecting assets, but trading for Lowry wouldn't make much sense unless the plan is to trade Rondo.

Lowry costs too much to be a backup; won't be able to get return on the investment unless he's starting.

  I don't know that Lowry makes sense even if you do trade Rondo. Isn't he a FA this offseason? The two questions I'd have are how much (and for how long) you'd pay him and how long would it take for you to regret that contract?

The report says the trade exception would be involved.

Better to try to sign and trade Lowry's expiring than let the TE expire?

  That adds his entire salary to our total since we wouldn't be sending any contracts out, pushing us well into the luxury tax and putting us into the repeater category going forward. He's not worth going through that for.

1)To: "go into the repeater category going forward." That's a little misleading. You either qualify or you don't, and in order for us to qualify for the repeater tax we'd have to finish over the tax this year and next year. The repeater category doesn't start until next season, and then, in 14-15, it will only affects teams that have paid the luxury tax in the each of the last three seasons from then.

2)There's no reason why we can't use the TE on Lowry and then send out another player to get us below the tax threshold at a later date. Your tax level is determined at the end of the season, IIRC, not at every moment during it.
Title: Re: Ken Berger: Cs have called about Lowry;LAC and MInn frontcourt help;Asik to stay
Post by: Roy H. on January 04, 2014, 11:02:00 AM
I get that Danny is into collecting assets, but trading for Lowry wouldn't make much sense unless the plan is to trade Rondo.

Lowry costs too much to be a backup; won't be able to get return on the investment unless he's starting.

  I don't know that Lowry makes sense even if you do trade Rondo. Isn't he a FA this offseason? The two questions I'd have are how much (and for how long) you'd pay him and how long would it take for you to regret that contract?

The report says the trade exception would be involved.

Better to try to sign and trade Lowry's expiring than let the TE expire?

I don't think we can absorb Lowry's contract without exceeding our hard cap (i.e., the "apron", $4 million above the luxury tax line).
Title: Re: Ken Berger: Cs have called about Lowry;LAC and MInn frontcourt help;Asik to stay
Post by: BballTim on January 04, 2014, 11:23:16 AM
I get that Danny is into collecting assets, but trading for Lowry wouldn't make much sense unless the plan is to trade Rondo.

Lowry costs too much to be a backup; won't be able to get return on the investment unless he's starting.

  I don't know that Lowry makes sense even if you do trade Rondo. Isn't he a FA this offseason? The two questions I'd have are how much (and for how long) you'd pay him and how long would it take for you to regret that contract?

The report says the trade exception would be involved.

Better to try to sign and trade Lowry's expiring than let the TE expire?

  That adds his entire salary to our total since we wouldn't be sending any contracts out, pushing us well into the luxury tax and putting us into the repeater category going forward. He's not worth going through that for.

1)To: "go into the repeater category going forward." That's a little misleading. You either qualify or you don't, and in order for us to qualify for the repeater tax we'd have to finish over the tax this year and next year. The repeater category doesn't start until next season, and then, in 14-15, it will only affects teams that have paid the luxury tax in the each of the last three seasons from then.

2)There's no reason why we can't use the TE on Lowry and then send out another player to get us below the tax threshold at a later date. Your tax level is determined at the end of the season, IIRC, not at every moment during it.

 1) yes, I suppose that I could have been more verbose. It impacts future moves in years that we'll hopefully be more amenable to exceeding the luxury tax. 2) Lowry makes over $6M. Who's going to take a player making that much from us without sending back salary?
Title: Re: Ken Berger: Cs have called about Lowry;LAC and MInn frontcourt help;Asik to stay
Post by: pearljammer10 on January 04, 2014, 12:11:54 PM
Yeah, we were discussing Lowry earlier:

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=68869.0

I don't think it'd necessarily be a precursor to a Rondo trade. Ainge is all about stockpiling assets.

As for the Clips and TWolves looking for frontcourt help (Bass?), not sure what they could come up with.

Edit: not sure why the Wolves need frontcourt help, unless they need a backup C. Cunningham and the Fresh Prince can both play minutes at PF.

I dont see Lowry linked to a Rondo trade at all. Danny is probably kicking the tires on everybody and Lowry is a good young asset and has an expiring contract. I would expect Danny to inquire on him, especially if Rondo starts out playing only 20ish minutes a game this year.
Title: Re: Ken Berger: Cs have called about Lowry;LAC and MInn frontcourt help;Asik to stay
Post by: 317 on January 04, 2014, 01:58:46 PM
I get that Danny is into collecting assets, but trading for Lowry wouldn't make much sense unless the plan is to trade Rondo.

Lowry costs too much to be a backup; won't be able to get return on the investment unless he's starting.

  I don't know that Lowry makes sense even if you do trade Rondo. Isn't he a FA this offseason? The two questions I'd have are how much (and for how long) you'd pay him and how long would it take for you to regret that contract?

The report says the trade exception would be involved.

Better to try to sign and trade Lowry's expiring than let the TE expire?

  That adds his entire salary to our total since we wouldn't be sending any contracts out, pushing us well into the luxury tax and putting us into the repeater category going forward. He's not worth going through that for.

1)To: "go into the repeater category going forward." That's a little misleading. You either qualify or you don't, and in order for us to qualify for the repeater tax we'd have to finish over the tax this year and next year. The repeater category doesn't start until next season, and then, in 14-15, it will only affects teams that have paid the luxury tax in the each of the last three seasons from then.

2)There's no reason why we can't use the TE on Lowry and then send out another player to get us below the tax threshold at a later date. Your tax level is determined at the end of the season, IIRC, not at every moment during it.

the repeater tax is going to be 3 out of the past 4 years, not 3 in a row.
Title: Re: Ken Berger: Cs have called about Lowry;LAC and MInn frontcourt help;Asik to stay
Post by: ssspence on January 04, 2014, 02:03:54 PM
Yeah, we were discussing Lowry earlier:

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=68869.0

I don't think it'd necessarily be a precursor to a Rondo trade. Ainge is all about stockpiling assets.

As for the Clips and TWolves looking for frontcourt help (Bass?), not sure what they could come up with.

Edit: not sure why the Wolves need frontcourt help, unless they need a backup C. Cunningham and the Fresh Prince can both play minutes at PF.

Thanks Lucky,....+1 shoulda checked......

No worries. Check out the discussion there, there were some good points on Ainge potentially using the TE in a Lowry deal.

Don't steal my stuff! Kidding.

The TE-4-Lowry thing is a stretch. We'd have to do another tricky deal to gain enough room under the tax to do it at all... and then why do the Raps wanna do it? We're not giving them a meaningful pick for Lowry anyway.

Not to mention, by all accounts, Lowry is a ****head. Have my doubts that Ainge / Stevens really see value in him -- average PG who needs the ball in his hands a ton to  be successful.

I agree that the "keep Asik thing" doesn't make much sense either. That's planted with Berger (and Stein, i believe) by Houston to try to regain their footing in the market. There are still a half dozen GMs in the league that are dumb enough to listen.

Title: Re: Ken Berger: Cs have called about Lowry;LAC and MInn frontcourt help;Asik to stay
Post by: D.o.s. on January 04, 2014, 08:18:22 PM
I get that Danny is into collecting assets, but trading for Lowry wouldn't make much sense unless the plan is to trade Rondo.

Lowry costs too much to be a backup; won't be able to get return on the investment unless he's starting.

  I don't know that Lowry makes sense even if you do trade Rondo. Isn't he a FA this offseason? The two questions I'd have are how much (and for how long) you'd pay him and how long would it take for you to regret that contract?

The report says the trade exception would be involved.

Better to try to sign and trade Lowry's expiring than let the TE expire?

  That adds his entire salary to our total since we wouldn't be sending any contracts out, pushing us well into the luxury tax and putting us into the repeater category going forward. He's not worth going through that for.

1)To: "go into the repeater category going forward." That's a little misleading. You either qualify or you don't, and in order for us to qualify for the repeater tax we'd have to finish over the tax this year and next year. The repeater category doesn't start until next season, and then, in 14-15, it will only affects teams that have paid the luxury tax in the each of the last three seasons from then.

2)There's no reason why we can't use the TE on Lowry and then send out another player to get us below the tax threshold at a later date. Your tax level is determined at the end of the season, IIRC, not at every moment during it.

the repeater tax is going to be 3 out of the past 4 years, not 3 in a row.

You're right moving forward, but there seems to be a special difference for next season according to the Cap FAQ:

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q21
Quote
For 2014-15 teams pay an incremental rate based on their team salary. They pay the repeater rate if they also were taxpayers in all of the previous three seasons.


 1) yes, I suppose that I could have been more verbose. It impacts future moves in years that we'll hopefully be more amenable to exceeding the luxury tax. 2) Lowry makes over $6M. Who's going to take a player making that much from us without sending back salary?


I'm not sure what kind of moves would be out there for moving players if we did use the TPE on Lowry, but I suspect they're a little more plentiful than you might think.
Title: Re: Ken Berger: Cs have called about Lowry;LAC and MInn frontcourt help;Asik to stay
Post by: European NBA fan on January 04, 2014, 09:28:47 PM

(...)

You're right moving forward, but there seems to be a special difference for next season according to the Cap FAQ:

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q21
Quote
For 2014-15 teams pay an incremental rate based on their team salary. They pay the repeater rate if they also were taxpayers in all of the previous three seasons.


 1) yes, I suppose that I could have been more verbose. It impacts future moves in years that we'll hopefully be more amenable to exceeding the luxury tax. 2) Lowry makes over $6M. Who's going to take a player making that much from us without sending back salary?


I'm not sure what kind of moves would be out there for moving players if we did use the TPE on Lowry, but I suspect they're a little more plentiful than you might think.

The problem for the Celtics is that we were tax payers the previous seasons. That's why, we don't want to be tax payers this season.

Anyway the Celts have already used the non-taxpayer MLE, which implies a hard cap at the tax level.

We will only be able to use the Trade Exception if someone takes some of our salary (like Humphries) or in a very short window in July before the exception expires.
Title: Re: Ken Berger: Cs have called about Lowry;LAC and MInn frontcourt help;Asik to stay
Post by: BballTim on January 04, 2014, 09:34:26 PM
I get that Danny is into collecting assets, but trading for Lowry wouldn't make much sense unless the plan is to trade Rondo.

Lowry costs too much to be a backup; won't be able to get return on the investment unless he's starting.

  I don't know that Lowry makes sense even if you do trade Rondo. Isn't he a FA this offseason? The two questions I'd have are how much (and for how long) you'd pay him and how long would it take for you to regret that contract?

The report says the trade exception would be involved.

Better to try to sign and trade Lowry's expiring than let the TE expire?

  That adds his entire salary to our total since we wouldn't be sending any contracts out, pushing us well into the luxury tax and putting us into the repeater category going forward. He's not worth going through that for.

1)To: "go into the repeater category going forward." That's a little misleading. You either qualify or you don't, and in order for us to qualify for the repeater tax we'd have to finish over the tax this year and next year. The repeater category doesn't start until next season, and then, in 14-15, it will only affects teams that have paid the luxury tax in the each of the last three seasons from then.

2)There's no reason why we can't use the TE on Lowry and then send out another player to get us below the tax threshold at a later date. Your tax level is determined at the end of the season, IIRC, not at every moment during it.

the repeater tax is going to be 3 out of the past 4 years, not 3 in a row.

You're right moving forward, but there seems to be a special difference for next season according to the Cap FAQ:

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q21
Quote
For 2014-15 teams pay an incremental rate based on their team salary. They pay the repeater rate if they also were taxpayers in all of the previous three seasons.


 1) yes, I suppose that I could have been more verbose. It impacts future moves in years that we'll hopefully be more amenable to exceeding the luxury tax. 2) Lowry makes over $6M. Who's going to take a player making that much from us without sending back salary?


I'm not sure what kind of moves would be out there for moving players if we did use the TPE on Lowry, but I suspect they're a little more plentiful than you might think.

  If there are a fair amount of moves out there where Danny can unload a decent-sized contract and not bring back any salaries without giving up anything of value Danny will do one or two such deals before the trade deadline.
Title: Re: Ken Berger: Cs have called about Lowry;LAC and MInn frontcourt help;Asik to stay
Post by: Roy H. on January 04, 2014, 10:00:38 PM
2)There's no reason why we can't use the TE on Lowry and then send out another player to get us below the tax threshold at a later date. Your tax level is determined at the end of the season, IIRC, not at every moment during it.

This isn't quite true.

Since the Celtics signed-and-traded for Bogans, they're hard-capped at the "apron" amount, $4 million above the luxury tax line.  They're not allowed to exceed the apron at any point in time during the season.
Title: Re: Ken Berger: Cs have called about Lowry;LAC and MInn frontcourt help;Asik to stay
Post by: D.o.s. on January 04, 2014, 11:34:54 PM
Anyway the Celts have already used the non-taxpayer MLE, which implies a hard cap at the tax level.

We will only be able to use the Trade Exception if someone takes some of our salary (like Humphries) or in a very short window in July before the exception expires.

2)There's no reason why we can't use the TE on Lowry and then send out another player to get us below the tax threshold at a later date. Your tax level is determined at the end of the season, IIRC, not at every moment during it.

This isn't quite true.

Since the Celtics signed-and-traded for Bogans, they're hard-capped at the "apron" amount, $4 million above the luxury tax line.  They're not allowed to exceed the apron at any point in time during the season.

You're right, I forgot about the apron hard-cap. TP's to both of you for the correction.
Title: Re: Ken Berger: Cs have called about Lowry;LAC and MInn frontcourt help;Asik to stay
Post by: LooseCannon on January 05, 2014, 12:46:25 AM
Are Rockets' sources using Berger to try to create leverage?

The "Asik is staying" argument doesn't make a lot of sense to me, with the Rockets having to pay him $15 million next year.  I do agree that his contract will make him harder to deal next year, which is why I expect he'll be dealt this year.  (Teams just don't pay $15 million for their backup centers.)

Factor in Jeremy Lin's poison pill of $15mill and the Rox ownership will be paying two bench players $30 million? Yeah right.

It doesn't matter if it doesn't all count against the cap, ownership isn't paying all that.

This talking point seems quite overrated to me.  They paid the guys around $5m/year for the first two years of their deals, so ownership effectively ends up being able to defer about $14m in salary interest-free for the price of it being a bit harder to trade either guy.

If the Rockets do trade Asik, there is a good chance the other team will insist on Houston throwing in the maximum of $3m-ish in cash considerations, so it is possible that ownership ends up spending more money if the team trades Asik than if they keep him.
Title: Re: Ken Berger: Cs have called about Lowry;LAC and MInn frontcourt help;Asik to stay
Post by: bfrombleacher on January 05, 2014, 01:26:19 AM
Are Rockets' sources using Berger to try to create leverage?

The "Asik is staying" argument doesn't make a lot of sense to me, with the Rockets having to pay him $15 million next year.  I do agree that his contract will make him harder to deal next year, which is why I expect he'll be dealt this year.  (Teams just don't pay $15 million for their backup centers.)

Factor in Jeremy Lin's poison pill of $15mill and the Rox ownership will be paying two bench players $30 million? Yeah right.

It doesn't matter if it doesn't all count against the cap, ownership isn't paying all that.

This talking point seems quite overrated to me.  They paid the guys around $5m/year for the first two years of their deals, so ownership effectively ends up being able to defer about $14m in salary interest-free for the price of it being a bit harder to trade either guy.

If the Rockets do trade Asik, there is a good chance the other team will insist on Houston throwing in the maximum of $3m-ish in cash considerations, so it is possible that ownership ends up spending more money if the team trades Asik than if they keep him.

I agree.

I believe (iirc) that it's not about the money, it's about the cap hit. Although Asik will hit the jackpot, not all of his salary will count against the cap (same for Lin I believe).

The reason the Rockets are eager to trade the two is (again, iirc) because they need to re-up Parsons.

Asik's payday is counteracted by all the benefits of them signing a back-loaded contract.
Title: Re: Ken Berger: Cs have called about Lowry;LAC and MInn frontcourt help;Asik to stay
Post by: LatterDayCelticsfan on January 05, 2014, 01:08:05 PM
...and then somebody offers Chandler Parsons one of those poison pill contracts...
Title: Re: Ken Berger: Cs have called about Lowry;LAC and MInn frontcourt help;Asik to stay
Post by: BballTim on January 05, 2014, 01:55:09 PM
Are Rockets' sources using Berger to try to create leverage?

The "Asik is staying" argument doesn't make a lot of sense to me, with the Rockets having to pay him $15 million next year.  I do agree that his contract will make him harder to deal next year, which is why I expect he'll be dealt this year.  (Teams just don't pay $15 million for their backup centers.)

Factor in Jeremy Lin's poison pill of $15mill and the Rox ownership will be paying two bench players $30 million? Yeah right.

It doesn't matter if it doesn't all count against the cap, ownership isn't paying all that.

This talking point seems quite overrated to me.  They paid the guys around $5m/year for the first two years of their deals, so ownership effectively ends up being able to defer about $14m in salary interest-free for the price of it being a bit harder to trade either guy.

  First of all, while the contract isn't bad overall, the fact that it was favorable to the team for two years doesn't change the fact that it's now unfavorable. It's like signing a 31 year old star to a 5 year deal for $20M a year. The fact that it was a good deal for a while doesn't mean you aren't stuck with an overpaid former superstar the last two years. Also, Asik's playing a fraction of the minutes that he was intended to, so they're giving him a king's ransom to sit on the bench. That's on top of the fact that he's a malcontent that they'd love to trade but they're having trouble unloading the contract.