CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: crownontherocks on December 12, 2013, 03:25:40 PM
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The Celtics are trying to keep Avery Bradley and they offered him a four-year, $24M contract extension last summer but he turned it down.
He wants at least 8 mln per year
Per Bleacher Report, In fact, that's why, according to a source, the Celtics offered Avery Bradley a four-year $24 million deal (with a team option on the fourth year) this past offseason, but he turned it down. That's because he wants at least $8 million per year, which another source confirmed. Bradley will be a restricted free agent next summer, so things could get "tricky," as one source said, for the Celtics to keep him.
While Bradley had been considered limited offensively coming into this season, he's improved in that category from November to December. So far this month, he's averaging 15.2 points per game while shooting 50 percent and 60 percent from the field and three-point range, respectively.
Sorry
If this was already posted then delete or move to other topic
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If that's the case then I believe he will be gone by the trading deadline. I don't see Danny wanting to pay Bradley 8 million a year.
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The Celtics are trying to keep Avery Bradley and they offered him a four-year, $24M contract extension last summer but he turned it down.
He wants at least 8 mln per year
Per Bleacher Report, In fact, that's why, according to a source, the Celtics offered Avery Bradley a four-year $24 million deal (with a team option on the fourth year) this past offseason, but he turned it down. That's because he wants at least $8 million per year, which another source confirmed. Bradley will be a restricted free agent next summer, so things could get "tricky," as one source said, for the Celtics to keep him.
While Bradley had been considered limited offensively coming into this season, he's improved in that category from November to December. So far this month, he's averaging 15.2 points per game while shooting 50 percent and 60 percent from the field and three-point range, respectively.
Sorry
If this was already posted then delete or move to other topic
bye then.
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Dang you just beat me to it! TP ;D
I think that they would eventually agree on something during FA. I mean they could meet halfway and give Avery 7 million pr. year.
On the other side, he is a restricted FA so i dont see him going anywhere, unless its through a trade.
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If that's the case then I believe he will be gone by the trading deadline. I don't see Danny wanting to pay Bradley 8 million a year.
Don't think that will happen, I don't see anyone offering him this type of contract next summer.
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It is Bleacher Report, but I suppose it's possible. I don't know how psyched I am going forward with 8 mill / yr for Bradley. I guess if Rondo were more in the Westbrook mold (score first pg), it would make more sense, but I think we are going to need a superstar sg moving forward and Avery doesn't seem to quite have that potential.
I may totally be underrating him, though. If we had a Gasol / Cousins / Drummond at the center position already, then I might feel more comfortable with Bradley moving forward - especially with Crawford coming off the bench.
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If that's the case then I believe he will be gone by the trading deadline. I don't see Danny wanting to pay Bradley 8 million a year.
Don't think that will happen, I don't see anyone offering him this type of contract next summer.
There is no need to trade him. No one will pay him that and if he signs an offer sheet the C's will just match.
Also, Bradley is shooting 38% from 3 and 45% overall. He is certainly having a breakout year on offense and I only expect this to improve once Rondo comes back. The troubling thing is, his defensive numbers are some of the worst of his career. I think when Rondo comes back they allow him to pressure he ball more and he becomes worthy of four year $24 MM deal.
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Is a Gordon for Bradley swap possible
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Bradley's such a peculiar player because of his tweener size, and still-uncertain offensive capabilities. I can see him being a great fit on some rosters and with certain types of players, but not on others.
So, I don't see the logic in making a big commitment to him before we get the more important pieces of our roster sorted out.
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Is a Gordon for Bradley swap possible
Which Gordon? Eric, Ben, or Hayward?
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hmm 4/24 was what i figured he was worth going into the season. i would have gone as high as 4/26 since i expected his FG% to go up since he simply has to good of form to keep shooting poorly. today i might go as high as 4/29. i find it difficult to see him at 4/32, although on a contract that goes down per season instead of up i could live with it ie 9.5/8/7.5/7
im thinking hes going to be dealt at the deadline instead thought.
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Is a Gordon for Bradley swap possible
Which Gordon? Eric, Ben, or Hayward?
I was thinking eric gordon. I know salaries don't match
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I'd wait for the draft before we did anything. If we end up drafting where I think we will, there might be a decent SG or combo guard (Semaj, Garry Harris, James Young) but there won't be any Centers. If we can trade some combination of Bradley + Pierce Exception + ATL pick + future pick(s) + an expiring for a legit center, we could have:
Rondo
James Young
Green
Sully
Legit Center (Asik, one of the Gasols, Monroe)
I'm not exactly sure how the trade would work, but this draft could at the very least make Bradley redundant and he could help us upgrade at the 5 in the meantime
Then we'd have a legit bench, too.
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I think that Bradley should be able to get a full MLE contract from someone, so it makes sense that he shouldn't sign an extension unless he gets significantly more than that. In Bradley's shoes, I'd probably also want to wait and see about the direction of the franchise.
I would be willing to go over the MLE to retain Bradley, but in terms of salary cap maneuvers, I don't think it made sense to extend him unless he was willing to sign a contract that started out at less than his cap hold for next season ($6.3m).
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Yikes.
I don't think I'd go over $5mill or so for Avery.
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Is a Gordon for Bradley swap possible
Which Gordon? Eric, Ben, or Hayward?
I was thinking eric gordon. I know salaries don't match
Yeah, Eric Gordon makes about 15 mill/yr - cornerstone of your franchise territory. I think we would be doing the Pelicans a favor. I imagine we would have to at least be throwing in Gerald Wallace if we did this deal.
I also would have to think that we had another major move at center coming because upgrading to Eric Gordon in the present really does nothing if you don't have plans for at least trying to contend [note: I am not sure if I consider Gordon an all-out upgrade].
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is there a difference between Bradley rejecting the deal or the agent rejecting the deal...cuz I remember Trevor Ariza got screwed over by his agent and the Lakers basically said no...
I really don't want that to happen to Bradley cuz I like Bradley.
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Bradley is 23 years old, has around 2-3 more years of developing before he's in his prime of 26-30.
His PPG, FG%,3P% and Rebounds have all increased, in some cases dramatically, since last season. He is shooting 45% on 3s over the last 30 days. His offense is really coming around.
On defense there is literally no one else better then him at his position, and he will be at the top for the next 4-5 years easily.
There is still a lot of season to go, but so far AB is trending upwards. Rondo could help boost his numbers also, but we'll see. Overall I think if this continues he will be worth pretty close to 8mil per year, and I dont know if Danny should be quick to say "no thanks". He might actually be worth a lot more then 8-9-10 mil per year if he reaches full potential when he's 25+.
67 Thaddeus Young, PF Philadelphia 76ers $8,850,000
68 Kendrick Perkins, C Oklahoma City Thunder $8,727,437
69 Jeff Green, SG Boston Celtics $8,700,000
70 Mike Conley, PG Memphis Grizzlies $8,600,001
RK NAME TEAM SALARY
71 Jameer Nelson, PG Orlando Magic $8,600,000
72 Charlie Villanueva, PF Detroit Pistons $8,580,000
73 Rodney Stuckey, SG Detroit Pistons $8,500,000
74 Omer Asik, C Houston Rockets $8,374,646
75 Jeremy Lin, PG Houston Rockets $8,374,646
76 Ryan Anderson, PF New Orleans Pelicans $8,308,500
77 Marcus Thornton, SG Sacramento Kings $8,050,000
78 Caron Butler, SF Milwaukee Bucks $8,000,000
79 O.J. Mayo, SG Milwaukee Bucks $8,000,000
80 Jeff Teague, PG Atlanta Hawks $8,000,000
81 Mark Blount, C Miami Heat $7,967,375
82 Ersan Ilyasova, PF Milwaukee Bucks $7,900,000
83 Marcin Gortat, C Washington Wizards $7,727,280
84 Trevor Ariza, SF Washington Wizards $7,727,280
85 Brandon Jennings, PG Detroit Pistons $7,655,503
86 James Posey, SF Indiana Pacers $7,595,600
87 John Salmons, SF Sacramento Kings $7,583,000
88 Taj Gibson, PF Chicago Bulls $7,550,000
89 Marvin Williams, PF Utah Jazz $7,500,000
90 Arron Afflalo, SG Orlando Magic $7,500,00
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Don't think there's enough buzz around AB for somebody to overpay him during free agent season, Ainge probably agrees which i why we're playing hardball.
Things will backfire spectacularly if he develops significantly this year, of course. But it seems highly unlikely that he'll become an 8m player overnight.
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In the NFL there is compensation when you lose a restricted FA.
I don't believe that has been the case in the NBA -- but just checking -- any compensation if we decide not to match an offer for a restricted FA?
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Bradley is 23 years old, has around 2-3 more years of developing before he's in his prime of 26-30.
His PPG, FG%,3P% and Rebounds have all increased, in some cases dramatically, since last season. He is shooting 45% on 3s over the last 30 days. His offense is really coming around.
On defense there is literally no one else better then him at his position, and he will be at the top for the next 4-5 years easily.
There is still a lot of season to go, but so far AB is trending upwards. Rondo could help boost his numbers also, but we'll see. Overall I think if this continues he will be worth pretty close to 8mil per year, and I dont know if Danny should be quick to say "no thanks". He might actually be worth a lot more then 8-9-10 mil per year if he reaches full potential when he's 25+.
67 Thaddeus Young, PF Philadelphia 76ers $8,850,000
68 Kendrick Perkins, C Oklahoma City Thunder $8,727,437
69 Jeff Green, SG Boston Celtics $8,700,000
70 Mike Conley, PG Memphis Grizzlies $8,600,001
RK NAME TEAM SALARY
71 Jameer Nelson, PG Orlando Magic $8,600,000
72 Charlie Villanueva, PF Detroit Pistons $8,580,000
73 Rodney Stuckey, SG Detroit Pistons $8,500,000
74 Omer Asik, C Houston Rockets $8,374,646
75 Jeremy Lin, PG Houston Rockets $8,374,646
76 Ryan Anderson, PF New Orleans Pelicans $8,308,500
77 Marcus Thornton, SG Sacramento Kings $8,050,000
78 Caron Butler, SF Milwaukee Bucks $8,000,000
79 O.J. Mayo, SG Milwaukee Bucks $8,000,000
80 Jeff Teague, PG Atlanta Hawks $8,000,000
81 Mark Blount, C Miami Heat $7,967,375
82 Ersan Ilyasova, PF Milwaukee Bucks $7,900,000
83 Marcin Gortat, C Washington Wizards $7,727,280
84 Trevor Ariza, SF Washington Wizards $7,727,280
85 Brandon Jennings, PG Detroit Pistons $7,655,503
86 James Posey, SF Indiana Pacers $7,595,600
87 John Salmons, SF Sacramento Kings $7,583,000
88 Taj Gibson, PF Chicago Bulls $7,550,000
89 Marvin Williams, PF Utah Jazz $7,500,000
90 Arron Afflalo, SG Orlando Magic $7,500,00
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I'd wait for the draft before we did anything. If we end up drafting where I think we will, there might be a decent SG or combo guard (Semaj, Garry Harris, James Young) but there won't be any Centers. If we can trade some combination of Bradley + Pierce Exception + ATL pick + future pick(s) + an expiring for a legit center, we could have:
Rondo
James Young
Green
Sully
Legit Center (Asik, one of the Gasols, Monroe)
I'm not exactly sure how the trade would work, but this draft could at the very least make Bradley redundant and he could help us upgrade at the 5 in the meantime
Then we'd have a legit bench, too.
I like this thought process. Plus, it's easier for Danny to find a 2 guard going forward in the draft(s) than netting a big man. He's better off trading away Avery if a Center is out there who can be had.
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In the NFL there is compensation when you lose a restricted FA.
I don't believe that has been the case in the NBA -- but just checking -- any compensation if we decide not to match an offer for a restricted FA?
Correct, if you choose not to match - no compensation is awarded. The only right that you are afforded is the right TO match.
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In the NFL there is compensation when you lose a restricted FA.
I don't believe that has been the case in the NBA -- but just checking -- any compensation if we decide not to match an offer for a restricted FA?
Correct, if you choose not to match - no compensation is awarded. The only right that you are afforded is the right TO match.
probably because the NBA has only two draft rounds whereas other pro leagues have almost endless rounds of drafts each year
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I'm sorry but 4 yrs 24 mil is his exact worth. I hope DA doesn't cave and pay AB 8 mil a year. I love AB and want him on the team but he can do two things, defend point guards and shoot a bit. That's not worth 8 mil a year for 4 years.
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what is lee getting now and for how long?
if bradley's agent is looking for unrealistic $ then its pretty easy:
how does rondo handle bradley's defense in practice (important)
if rondo can take his defense easy enough then ainge should put together a package (maybe sign and trade) of bradley and insert pf from our group(humphries makes most sense) for all all star sg or a good quality center
wish gortat was still on market!
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Seems like Danny offered a fair price--I don't blame him for not going higher.
Will be interesting to see Bradley's situation at the end of the year, however. Supposedly he's pretty much always been able to shoot in practice, and he's had a couple of good runs in his career so far. This year's the perfect opportunity for him to show us what he's got.
Sounds like he wanted/wants close to the deal that Danny gave Rondo, when lots of people thought Danny was a little crazy. Clearly Danny doesn't think he's quite a Rondo.
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On defense there is literally no one else better then him at his position
(http://media.commercialappeal.com/media/img/photos/2013/02/20/212975_t607.JPG)
I'd like to see AB play a full season before assessing his contract.
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I'd wait for the draft before we did anything. If we end up drafting where I think we will, there might be a decent SG or combo guard (Semaj, Garry Harris, James Young) but there won't be any Centers. If we can trade some combination of Bradley + Pierce Exception + ATL pick + future pick(s) + an expiring for a legit center, we could have:
Rondo
James Young
Green
Sully
Legit Center (Asik, one of the Gasols, Monroe)
I'm not exactly sure how the trade would work, but this draft could at the very least make Bradley redundant and he could help us upgrade at the 5 in the meantime
Then we'd have a legit bench, too.
I'd like Asik.
But he'd be gone by the deadline, i.e. won't fit into your hypothetical.
Seeing what AB does is indeed beneficial as he'll either 1. play up his trade value, 2. prove he's worth the long term investment or 3. play down his value making resigning easier.
Though depending on how much Asik will cost and how insistent AB is, I'd do it.
But the asking price is ridiculous. They want TWO firsts for Asik. Eep. That, I will not do.
I'd love Monroe.
However, AB alone probably won't get it done.
Ideally we'd keep JG and KO (and, of course, Rondo and Sully).
Sully, KO and Asik/Monroe look very nice. Very complimentary front court.
Monroe would be a dream, a very good young center with upside.
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Bradley is 23 years old, has around 2-3 more years of developing before he's in his prime of 26-30.
His PPG, FG%,3P% and Rebounds have all increased, in some cases dramatically, since last season. He is shooting 45% on 3s over the last 30 days. His offense is really coming around.
On defense there is literally no one else better then him at his position, and he will be at the top for the next 4-5 years easily.
There is still a lot of season to go, but so far AB is trending upwards. Rondo could help boost his numbers also, but we'll see. Overall I think if this continues he will be worth pretty close to 8mil per year, and I dont know if Danny should be quick to say "no thanks". He might actually be worth a lot more then 8-9-10 mil per year if he reaches full potential when he's 25+.
67 Thaddeus Young, PF Philadelphia 76ers $8,850,000
68 Kendrick Perkins, C Oklahoma City Thunder $8,727,437
69 Jeff Green, SG Boston Celtics $8,700,000
70 Mike Conley, PG Memphis Grizzlies $8,600,001
RK NAME TEAM SALARY
71 Jameer Nelson, PG Orlando Magic $8,600,000
72 Charlie Villanueva, PF Detroit Pistons $8,580,000
73 Rodney Stuckey, SG Detroit Pistons $8,500,000
74 Omer Asik, C Houston Rockets $8,374,646
75 Jeremy Lin, PG Houston Rockets $8,374,646
76 Ryan Anderson, PF New Orleans Pelicans $8,308,500
77 Marcus Thornton, SG Sacramento Kings $8,050,000
78 Caron Butler, SF Milwaukee Bucks $8,000,000
79 O.J. Mayo, SG Milwaukee Bucks $8,000,000
80 Jeff Teague, PG Atlanta Hawks $8,000,000
81 Mark Blount, C Miami Heat $7,967,375
82 Ersan Ilyasova, PF Milwaukee Bucks $7,900,000
83 Marcin Gortat, C Washington Wizards $7,727,280
84 Trevor Ariza, SF Washington Wizards $7,727,280
85 Brandon Jennings, PG Detroit Pistons $7,655,503
86 James Posey, SF Indiana Pacers $7,595,600
87 John Salmons, SF Sacramento Kings $7,583,000
88 Taj Gibson, PF Chicago Bulls $7,550,000
89 Marvin Williams, PF Utah Jazz $7,500,000
90 Arron Afflalo, SG Orlando Magic $7,500,00
Yeah, that was a pretty glaring name on that list...I just looked it up and George Hill and Monta Ellis should [basically] be in Blount's slot...for comparison's sake.
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If he keeps playing this well he'd be worth 8 million per year.
We will have to trust Danny to evaluate it at the end of the year.
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I do think that some people underestimate Bradley's value because they can't get past his (lack of) height.
I think his record shows that if you don't make him play point guard, he's a guy who is very likely to be named first or second team All-Defensive and could score 14-15 ppg with 40% shooting on threes.
If you believed Bradley is likely to play at that level over the next four years with some potential to be better, how much is he worth? How much more would you be willing to give him if he had the same numbers but was three inches taller?
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Ab is worth 8 on the open market. If danny doesnt think, he should trade him by the deadline.
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Look at things this way. How many starting SGs would you rather have for the next 4 plus years when looking around the league.
Wade, Johnson, and Kobe most likely will have fallen off a cliff by then if they haven't started to already.
These guys I would most likely take over Bradley:
DeRozan 24 yrs old
K Thompson 23
Harden 24
E Gordon 24 (if healthy)
Beal 20 ( I really like him)
Then it's a whole bunch of guys that are debateable if you want to have for the next 4 plus years over Bradley IMO because of age and/or play.
JR Smith 28
Redick 29
McLemore 20
Waiters 22
Caldwell Pope 20
Stephenson 23
Mayo 26
Ellis 28
G Henderson 26
Afflalo 28
Maybe Oladipo 21- if he stays at SG
K Martin 30
Matthews 27
A Burks 22
The look at this upcoming draft. The high end talent seems to be at SF and PG not SG unless if Exum, Smart, Parker, or Wiggins can start off their career at the 2.
So Bradley seems to be in the same tier with a bunch of guys IMO, and not many clear cut better to have for the next 4 plus years. I say we end up with him because we might not find a clear better alternative.
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I do think that some people underestimate Bradley's value because they can't get past his (lack of) height.
I think his record shows that if you don't make him play point guard, he's a guy who is very likely to be named first or second team All-Defensive and could score 14-15 ppg with 40% shooting on threes.
If you believed Bradley is likely to play at that level over the next four years with some potential to be better, how much is he worth? How much more would you be willing to give him if he had the same numbers but was three inches taller?
i said already that as of today i would go as high as 4/29. if he was 3 inches taller i would up that to 4/29.5 or maybe 4/30
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If he continues to shoot well and andnplay excellent defense, I really would not mind overpaying for him, but not more than $8 million.
He offers an elite skill, not to mentiom he plays well with Rondo. If he keeps the shooting, we keep him.
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I do think that some people underestimate Bradley's value because they can't get past his (lack of) height.
I think his record shows that if you don't make him play point guard, he's a guy who is very likely to be named first or second team All-Defensive and could score 14-15 ppg with 40% shooting on threes.
If you believed Bradley is likely to play at that level over the next four years with some potential to be better, how much is he worth? How much more would you be willing to give him if he had the same numbers but was three inches taller?
i said already that as of today i would go as high as 4/29. if he was 3 inches taller i would up that to 4/29.5 or maybe 4/30
Ok, now I'm curious as to the actual barrier between 4/29 and 4/29.5
Is it based on anything to do with the luxury tax ceiling, or is it just a comfort level thing (AB is worth ~7.25 but not ~7.37 a year?)
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AB if people know is pretty close to Jeff Green. But i also think there is a friendly competition going on between the two.
If you were AB, would you feel as a player you are lower than Jeff Green or better?
If i were AB, i'd think i'm pretty close. I made 2nd team all defense, plus i know i can score at a good efficiency rate (which he is doing now).
8 million is about right for the kid. I'd sign him to 4 or 5 years and rather try to trade Coutney Lee.
With AB for sure he can come off the bench, play some PG and give you excellent defense. Plus there is still a chance for him to be better than he has shown. So not your dead set starting future sg, but more like an insurance starting SG
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Celtics dodged a bullet then. You don't win championships by overpaying average talent.
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Celtics dodged a bullet then. You don't win championships by overpaying average talent.
My thoughts exactly. TP. I would not sign Bradley for four years 24 million. Too much for me.
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Bradley is 23 years old, has around 2-3 more years of developing before he's in his prime of 26-30.
His PPG, FG%,3P% and Rebounds have all increased, in some cases dramatically, since last season. He is shooting 45% on 3s over the last 30 days. His offense is really coming around.
On defense there is literally no one else better then him at his position, and he will be at the top for the next 4-5 years easily.
There is still a lot of season to go, but so far AB is trending upwards. Rondo could help boost his numbers also, but we'll see. Overall I think if this continues he will be worth pretty close to 8mil per year, and I dont know if Danny should be quick to say "no thanks". He might actually be worth a lot more then 8-9-10 mil per year if he reaches full potential when he's 25+.
67 Thaddeus Young, PF Philadelphia 76ers $8,850,000
68 Kendrick Perkins, C Oklahoma City Thunder $8,727,437
69 Jeff Green, SG Boston Celtics $8,700,000
70 Mike Conley, PG Memphis Grizzlies $8,600,001
RK NAME TEAM SALARY
71 Jameer Nelson, PG Orlando Magic $8,600,000
72 Charlie Villanueva, PF Detroit Pistons $8,580,000
73 Rodney Stuckey, SG Detroit Pistons $8,500,000
74 Omer Asik, C Houston Rockets $8,374,646
75 Jeremy Lin, PG Houston Rockets $8,374,646
76 Ryan Anderson, PF New Orleans Pelicans $8,308,500
77 Marcus Thornton, SG Sacramento Kings $8,050,000
78 Caron Butler, SF Milwaukee Bucks $8,000,000
79 O.J. Mayo, SG Milwaukee Bucks $8,000,000
80 Jeff Teague, PG Atlanta Hawks $8,000,000
81 Mark Blount, C Miami Heat $7,967,375
82 Ersan Ilyasova, PF Milwaukee Bucks $7,900,000
83 Marcin Gortat, C Washington Wizards $7,727,280
84 Trevor Ariza, SF Washington Wizards $7,727,280
85 Brandon Jennings, PG Detroit Pistons $7,655,503
86 James Posey, SF Indiana Pacers $7,595,600
87 John Salmons, SF Sacramento Kings $7,583,000
88 Taj Gibson, PF Chicago Bulls $7,550,000
89 Marvin Williams, PF Utah Jazz $7,500,000
90 Arron Afflalo, SG Orlando Magic $7,500,00
I'd rather have AB at 8 than several on that list...that said those guys are on bad contracts. That's the beauty of restricted free agency.
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How about we trade AB, JCRAW & Brooks to Cleveland for Waiters and Zellers?
What say you?
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I don't see him getting 8M per year from anybody else. The market has already been set for guards... I don't see any way he gets the same money as players like Teague, Conley, Jennings, Mayo, and even Green. The all had proven production and way more upside than Bradley does.
So if we don't work something out, then he'll sign to a reasonable offer sheet which the celtics will match.
The stupid teams that would overpay don't have any more money than the MLE to spend which I'd be fine with.
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6 million per was more than fair from Ainge. Reality is that Bradley is a 6'3 combo guard, with horrible passing and ball handling skills. He's a solid shooter, but without better ball handling I can't see him being anything better than average on the offensive end.
Before anyone points to his offensive development realize 13 points on 12 shots isn't anything to right home about. Bradley is still a below average offensive player. He's also one of the worst passers I've seen at his position in a long time. I'd rather see Ainge trade him than pay him 8 million next year or let him walk for nothing.
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The Celtics are trying to keep Avery Bradley and they offered him a four-year, $24M contract extension last summer but he turned it down.
He wants at least 8 mln per year
Per Bleacher Report, In fact, that's why, according to a source, the Celtics offered Avery Bradley a four-year $24 million deal (with a team option on the fourth year) this past offseason, but he turned it down. That's because he wants at least $8 million per year, which another source confirmed. Bradley will be a restricted free agent next summer, so things could get "tricky," as one source said, for the Celtics to keep him.
While Bradley had been considered limited offensively coming into this season, he's improved in that category from November to December. So far this month, he's averaging 15.2 points per game while shooting 50 percent and 60 percent from the field and three-point range, respectively.
Sorry
If this was already posted then delete or move to other topic
Is Bleacher Report really a credible source?
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Bradley is taking a huge gamble by doing this...24 Mil guaranteed, is pretty good for player made of glass. Let's see him get hurt and beg for that offer back.
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Absolutely not. He is overrated to begin with. Bye
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I'm guessing they hit middle ground in the off season. Maybe something along the lines of 27 million in 4 year of rising salary with the 4th being a player rather than a team option. On the whole I think this season is only the second which Bradley has gotten to establish a proper identity on offense and as he continues to build on it by the end of the season many will agree that the kind of deal I elaborated will look like a win win for everyone.
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Bradley is taking a huge gamble by doing this...24 Mil guaranteed, is pretty good for player made of glass. Let's see him get hurt and beg for that offer back.
Based on how he has been playing in recent weeks, he will get that easily as a free agent.
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Yikes.
I don't think I'd go over $5mill or so for Avery.
No way he takes a low ball offer like that. Most teams would pay more than that. Top perimeter defender who is efficient on offense. He will get paid. Likely on a contending team that can offer the money.
Dude is also still really young. Those years will be the BEGINNING of his prime.
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Celtics dodged a bullet then. You don't win championships by overpaying average talent.
It is Avery Bradley. He was all-defense at age 22. That is not average.
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Bradley is 23 years old, has around 2-3 more years of developing before he's in his prime of 26-30.
His PPG, FG%,3P% and Rebounds have all increased, in some cases dramatically, since last season. He is shooting 45% on 3s over the last 30 days. His offense is really coming around.
On defense there is literally no one else better then him at his position, and he will be at the top for the next 4-5 years easily.
There is still a lot of season to go, but so far AB is trending upwards. Rondo could help boost his numbers also, but we'll see. Overall I think if this continues he will be worth pretty close to 8mil per year, and I dont know if Danny should be quick to say "no thanks". He might actually be worth a lot more then 8-9-10 mil per year if he reaches full potential when he's 25+.
67 Thaddeus Young, PF Philadelphia 76ers $8,850,000
68 Kendrick Perkins, C Oklahoma City Thunder $8,727,437
69 Jeff Green, SG Boston Celtics $8,700,000
70 Mike Conley, PG Memphis Grizzlies $8,600,001
RK NAME TEAM SALARY
71 Jameer Nelson, PG Orlando Magic $8,600,000
72 Charlie Villanueva, PF Detroit Pistons $8,580,000
73 Rodney Stuckey, SG Detroit Pistons $8,500,000
74 Omer Asik, C Houston Rockets $8,374,646
75 Jeremy Lin, PG Houston Rockets $8,374,646
76 Ryan Anderson, PF New Orleans Pelicans $8,308,500
77 Marcus Thornton, SG Sacramento Kings $8,050,000
78 Caron Butler, SF Milwaukee Bucks $8,000,000
79 O.J. Mayo, SG Milwaukee Bucks $8,000,000
80 Jeff Teague, PG Atlanta Hawks $8,000,000
81 Mark Blount, C Miami Heat $7,967,375
82 Ersan Ilyasova, PF Milwaukee Bucks $7,900,000
83 Marcin Gortat, C Washington Wizards $7,727,280
84 Trevor Ariza, SF Washington Wizards $7,727,280
85 Brandon Jennings, PG Detroit Pistons $7,655,503
86 James Posey, SF Indiana Pacers $7,595,600
87 John Salmons, SF Sacramento Kings $7,583,000
88 Taj Gibson, PF Chicago Bulls $7,550,000
89 Marvin Williams, PF Utah Jazz $7,500,000
90 Arron Afflalo, SG Orlando Magic $7,500,00
Mark Blount?
The problem with a list like this is that many of these guys are already in their prime. Bradley will likely improve a lot during the next contract because he is only 23. He is already all defense and had shown that he can score, even without Rondo feeding him on cuts.
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No way he get paid over 6m/y
he is too short / injury prone / very bad handle and even worse pass ability
if he can keep his shooting percentage like now i think 6m/y is about just right, but not likely
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(http://images.wikia.com/arbynthechiefbeta/images/e/e2/Bye.gif)
Bye Avery!
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I wouldn't put much (if any) stock into this rumor. It was reported by the less-than-credible Bleacher Report and Memphis already adamantly refuted the part of the article about Z-Bo. I mean, I'm sure AB's agent would love to get him $8 mil a year. He won't get that here or anywhere else and unless DA decides to trade him, I seriously doubt he is going anywhere.
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The report is certainly plausible. There were reports that both sides were working on a framework for a deal. The numbers make sense to me.
I could see negotiations going something like:
Ainge: Three years, $6m per year. The MLE starts at $5.305m and you're not likely to get more than that.
Bradley's agent: You can sign for four years using the MLE. A full MLE contract would be $22.65m total. Four years, $25m total.
Ainge: What if we make the fourth year unguaranteed?
Bradley's agent: If you really want an unguaranteed fourth year, then let's make it $22.65m guaranteed over the first three years and the final year only $1m guaranteed. My client can't leave guaranteed money on the table.
Ainge: My calculation is that such a contract would start out at about $7.22m and ending at $8.2m. That's a bit higher than I am willing to go per year. Let's talk about a contract next summer.
Bradley's agent: Are you going to trade my client?
Ainge: It's been a pleasure doing business with you.
Bradley's agent: ???
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How do you figure that he's shooting 60% from 3?
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How do you figure that he's shooting 60% from 3?
Shooting 60% for the month of December. (Or, the last five games.)
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Trade him while he is hot and move JC to SG when RR comes back.
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Trade him while he is hot and move JC to SG when RR comes back.
nice idea, you need your SG to have shoot/pass/drive ability
and JC is the choice, AB will be gone sooner or later if he want that much of money
plus we can keep Lee then for the Rondo/JC/Lee rotation and still have defense(and size)
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There is no story here. This was the case of a player with a lot of talent and potential, who was injured a lot during his first three years, and still had too many questions at the end of year 3 to sign an extension based on potential.
It is really rare for players who are not max or near max players to sign extensions after their third year in the league for this reason. It is just hard to agree on a market value on a guy at that point. Generally speaking the player and agent will see a lot of potential for improvement in year 4, and they don't want to leave a lot of money on the table if that happens, but teams rarely agree to pay a premium for "potential" of a player when they still have him under contract for 1 more year, and have his RFA rights for another year.
I don't think it's a given that Bradley is back next year, but I think there is a much better chance he signs an extension this summer after testing the market, than there was that he would have signed an early extension.
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6 Mill is pretty nice for a undersized SG that hasn't been healthy for a full season. I love Bradley, and he's been playing really well, but he's not a cornerstone, he's a complementary player. At least right now.
Also with the new CBA, Rondo's contract coming I could see DA not wanting to just pay guys what ever. The thing is with the new CBA your going to see a lot of GM's not over paying guys like they've done in the past. So while 8 Mill a year is the norm for a guy like Bradley now, 6 will mist likely be the norm with in a few years.
I know DA really talks highly of AB, so it kinda makes you wonder also if the slightly under the norm payday is because of a future possible move.
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6 Mill is pretty nice for a undersized SG that hasn't been healthy for a full season. I love Bradley, and he's been playing really well, but he's not a cornerstone, he's a complementary player. At least right now.
Also with the new CBA, Rondo's contract coming I could see DA not wanting to just pay guys what ever. The thing is with the new CBA your going to see a lot of GM's not over paying guys like they've done in the past. So while 8 Mill a year is the norm for a guy like Bradley now, 6 will mist likely be the norm with in a few years.
I know DA really talks highly of AB, so it kinda makes you wonder also if the slightly under the norm payday is because of a future possible move.
$8 mill is the norm for a guy like Bradley now? I am not sure there is a norm. He is a pretty unique player IMO.
I think Bradley is a 5-6 million a year player, and I think that is what he will end up getting when he eventually signs. Players just don't sign for market value, if they are giving up the chance to hit free agency, which is why it didn't happen this past summer.
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Trade him while he is hot and move JC to SG when RR comes back.
nice idea, you need your SG to have shoot/pass/drive ability
and JC is the choice, AB will be gone sooner or later if he want that much of money
plus we can keep Lee then for the Rondo/JC/Lee rotation and still have defense(and size)
Crawford's defense is too bad for me to want him as a starting SG. Plus his offensive value will be greatly diminished off the ball.
Bradley at least is a plus plus defender, its his offense that was always the question. This year he seems to be settling in as a jump shooter so I'm more optimistic of him as a starter at SG than Crawford.
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Bradley is out of his mind if he thinks he is an $8 million player. He's an MLE type guy that could get that money for 4 years. What the C's offered was very generous. My guess is he will end up taking the QO or sign right in the 4 year $25 million area.
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6 Mill is pretty nice for a undersized SG that hasn't been healthy for a full season. I love Bradley, and he's been playing really well, but he's not a cornerstone, he's a complementary player. At least right now.
Also with the new CBA, Rondo's contract coming I could see DA not wanting to just pay guys what ever. The thing is with the new CBA your going to see a lot of GM's not over paying guys like they've done in the past. So while 8 Mill a year is the norm for a guy like Bradley now, 6 will mist likely be the norm with in a few years.
I know DA really talks highly of AB, so it kinda makes you wonder also if the slightly under the norm payday is because of a future possible move.
$8 mill is the norm for a guy like Bradley now? I am not sure there is a norm. He is a pretty unique player IMO.
I think Bradley is a 5-6 million a year player, and I think that is what he will end up getting when he eventually signs. Players just don't sign for market value, if they are giving up the chance to hit free agency, which is why it didn't happen this past summer.
I don't see him getting bigger than MLE offers. He might no even get those given that the C's probably will match a Lee sized deal. (if they want to retain him)
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6 Mill is pretty nice for a undersized SG that hasn't been healthy for a full season. I love Bradley, and he's been playing really well, but he's not a cornerstone, he's a complementary player. At least right now.
Also with the new CBA, Rondo's contract coming I could see DA not wanting to just pay guys what ever. The thing is with the new CBA your going to see a lot of GM's not over paying guys like they've done in the past. So while 8 Mill a year is the norm for a guy like Bradley now, 6 will mist likely be the norm with in a few years.
I know DA really talks highly of AB, so it kinda makes you wonder also if the slightly under the norm payday is because of a future possible move.
$8 mill is the norm for a guy like Bradley now? I am not sure there is a norm. He is a pretty unique player IMO.
I think Bradley is a 5-6 million a year player, and I think that is what he will end up getting when he eventually signs. Players just don't sign for market value, if they are giving up the chance to hit free agency, which is why it didn't happen this past summer.
I don't see him getting bigger than MLE offers. He might no even get those given that the C's probably will match a Lee sized deal. (if they want to retain him)
Yeah, he won't get an offer sheet for that, because teams know the C's would just match it. But I think, if he continues playing the way he is, Danny will probably offer him something like that, and Bradley will be more likely to take it at that point, because his agent will have at least tested the waters and saw that no teams are going to go much more than that.
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I wouldn't put it past Celtic management to leak the original story about what Bradley rejected so that teams know the C's are already committed to matching an MLE offer on Bradley, hence, clearing away those offers and making the job of signing Bradley in that range easier.
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I wouldn't put it past Celtic management to leak the original story about what Bradley rejected so that teams know the C's are already committed to matching an MLE offer on Bradley, hence, clearing away those offers and making the job of signing Bradley in that range easier.
It's possible. Although I think it was more likely leaked by Avery's agent to set a baseline for what they are looking for in restricted free agency. Particularly because of the timing with him coming off a number of really good games.
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6 Mill is pretty nice for a undersized SG that hasn't been healthy for a full season. I love Bradley, and he's been playing really well, but he's not a cornerstone, he's a complementary player. At least right now.
Also with the new CBA, Rondo's contract coming I could see DA not wanting to just pay guys what ever. The thing is with the new CBA your going to see a lot of GM's not over paying guys like they've done in the past. So while 8 Mill a year is the norm for a guy like Bradley now, 6 will mist likely be the norm with in a few years.
I know DA really talks highly of AB, so it kinda makes you wonder also if the slightly under the norm payday is because of a future possible move.
$8 mill is the norm for a guy like Bradley now? I am not sure there is a norm. He is a pretty unique player IMO.
I think Bradley is a 5-6 million a year player, and I think that is what he will end up getting when he eventually signs. Players just don't sign for market value, if they are giving up the chance to hit free agency, which is why it didn't happen this past summer.
Im not sure why you're arguing my statement. I said he should be around 66 mill, but if you look around the league there are players not as good or slightly better getting between 7 and 8.
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6 Mill is pretty nice for a undersized SG that hasn't been healthy for a full season. I love Bradley, and he's been playing really well, but he's not a cornerstone, he's a complementary player. At least right now.
Also with the new CBA, Rondo's contract coming I could see DA not wanting to just pay guys what ever. The thing is with the new CBA your going to see a lot of GM's not over paying guys like they've done in the past. So while 8 Mill a year is the norm for a guy like Bradley now, 6 will mist likely be the norm with in a few years.
I know DA really talks highly of AB, so it kinda makes you wonder also if the slightly under the norm payday is because of a future possible move.
$8 mill is the norm for a guy like Bradley now? I am not sure there is a norm. He is a pretty unique player IMO.
I think Bradley is a 5-6 million a year player, and I think that is what he will end up getting when he eventually signs. Players just don't sign for market value, if they are giving up the chance to hit free agency, which is why it didn't happen this past summer.
Im not sure why you're arguing my statement. I said he should be around 66 mill, but if you look around the league there are players not as good or slightly better getting between 7 and 8.
I'm arguing with it, because I disagree with it. I don't think $8 million is the norm for players similar to him.
He has a pretty unique skillset, but IMO his closest comparables would be guys like Sefolosha or Tony Allen, and both of them are actually making less than the MLE. Both of them also are more versatile defenders, so in theory may be more valuable, although I think you can pay a little bit of a premium for the remaining potential that Bradley brings to the table.
Now, if you are just saying that there are some overpaid guys in the league, then I won't argue with you. But I don't think the overall market value of defensive oriented guards is anywhere close to $8 million per year.
Who are you thinking of that are similar and make about $8 million?
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I smell a trade coming up later this season. Don't you? Leverage out some longer term deals to clear roster and cap space.
Perhaps for Omer Asik and/or Kendrik Perkins.
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I wouldn't put it past Celtic management to leak the original story about what Bradley rejected so that teams know the C's are already committed to matching an MLE offer on Bradley, hence, clearing away those offers and making the job of signing Bradley in that range easier.
It's possible. Although I think it was more likely leaked by Avery's agent to set a baseline for what they are looking for in restricted free agency. Particularly because of the timing with him coming off a number of really good games.
I would tend to think that it's more likely to be his agent, as well.
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I wouldn't put it past Celtic management to leak the original story about what Bradley rejected so that teams know the C's are already committed to matching an MLE offer on Bradley, hence, clearing away those offers and making the job of signing Bradley in that range easier.
It's possible. Although I think it was more likely leaked by Avery's agent to set a baseline for what they are looking for in restricted free agency. Particularly because of the timing with him coming off a number of really good games.
I think both make a lot of sense.
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Bradley put $24 million in salary chips back on the table gambling for a 25% increase against the risk of injury.
I don't think I'd have bet that if I were him.
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6 Mill is pretty nice for a undersized SG that hasn't been healthy for a full season. I love Bradley, and he's been playing really well, but he's not a cornerstone, he's a complementary player. At least right now.
Also with the new CBA, Rondo's contract coming I could see DA not wanting to just pay guys what ever. The thing is with the new CBA your going to see a lot of GM's not over paying guys like they've done in the past. So while 8 Mill a year is the norm for a guy like Bradley now, 6 will mist likely be the norm with in a few years.
I know DA really talks highly of AB, so it kinda makes you wonder also if the slightly under the norm payday is because of a future possible move.
$8 mill is the norm for a guy like Bradley now? I am not sure there is a norm. He is a pretty unique player IMO.
I think Bradley is a 5-6 million a year player, and I think that is what he will end up getting when he eventually signs. Players just don't sign for market value, if they are giving up the chance to hit free agency, which is why it didn't happen this past summer.
Im not sure why you're arguing my statement. I said he should be around 66 mill, but if you look around the league there are players not as good or slightly better getting between 7 and 8.
I'm arguing with it, because I disagree with it. I don't think $8 million is the norm for players similar to him.
He has a pretty unique skillset, but IMO his closest comparables would be guys like Sefolosha or Tony Allen, and both of them are actually making less than the MLE. Both of them also are more versatile defenders, so in theory may be more valuable, although I think you can pay a little bit of a premium for the remaining potential that Bradley brings to the table.
Now, if you are just saying that there are some overpaid guys in the league, then I won't argue with you. But I don't think the overall market value of defensive oriented guards is anywhere close to $8 million per year.
Who are you thinking of that are similar and make about $8 million?
Stucky,Lin,Butler,Teauge,Mayo,Jennings,Ariza, just to name a few that are SG/SF making 7 to 8 a year. AB has shown flashes of scoring like any one else on the list, and plays better D then any of them.
I'm not saying what so ever he should get their money, some of them shouldn't be getting their money. Your right he should be in the Tony Allen 5 to 6 a year range, a bit hire because he can shoot better.
So you can see why him or his agent would push the 8 mill mark, because they are going to speculation that he will be as good as anyone making that kind of money. Were realistically he should be around 6 a year.
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While we still don't have a #1 or 2 guy, I don't spend above the MLE on anybody. This is the time to control the money until it's time to spend.
Trade him to a contender, perhaps with Wallace, to clear the decks. Whatever.
There's no reason we can't let Lee get extended run rather than gum up the cap.
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While we still don't have a #1 or 2 guy, I don't spend above the MLE on anybody. This is the time to control the money until it's time to spend.
Trade him to a contender, perhaps with Wallace, to clear the decks. Whatever.
There's no reason we can't let Lee get extended run rather than gum up the cap.
Yeah, I agree for the most part. You just don't want to end up being so stubborn with this rule that you get stuck in a loosing team mentality for years or even a decade.
This thought does really make me hesitate on going above 24/4 for Bradley though. The celtics need to keep cap room to swing trades for disgruntled stars or picks, or free agent deals for stars.
If the team gets bogged down with middle class contracts (between the MLE and max), i think they will just get stuck in middle class land, winning 35-45 games per year with no room for improvement.
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6 Mill is pretty nice for a undersized SG that hasn't been healthy for a full season. I love Bradley, and he's been playing really well, but he's not a cornerstone, he's a complementary player. At least right now.
Also with the new CBA, Rondo's contract coming I could see DA not wanting to just pay guys what ever. The thing is with the new CBA your going to see a lot of GM's not over paying guys like they've done in the past. So while 8 Mill a year is the norm for a guy like Bradley now, 6 will mist likely be the norm with in a few years.
I know DA really talks highly of AB, so it kinda makes you wonder also if the slightly under the norm payday is because of a future possible move.
$8 mill is the norm for a guy like Bradley now? I am not sure there is a norm. He is a pretty unique player IMO.
I think Bradley is a 5-6 million a year player, and I think that is what he will end up getting when he eventually signs. Players just don't sign for market value, if they are giving up the chance to hit free agency, which is why it didn't happen this past summer.
Im not sure why you're arguing my statement. I said he should be around 66 mill, but if you look around the league there are players not as good or slightly better getting between 7 and 8.
I'm arguing with it, because I disagree with it. I don't think $8 million is the norm for players similar to him.
He has a pretty unique skillset, but IMO his closest comparables would be guys like Sefolosha or Tony Allen, and both of them are actually making less than the MLE. Both of them also are more versatile defenders, so in theory may be more valuable, although I think you can pay a little bit of a premium for the remaining potential that Bradley brings to the table.
Now, if you are just saying that there are some overpaid guys in the league, then I won't argue with you. But I don't think the overall market value of defensive oriented guards is anywhere close to $8 million per year.
Who are you thinking of that are similar and make about $8 million?
Stucky,Lin,Butler,Teauge,Mayo,Jennings,Ariza, just to name a few that are SG/SF making 7 to 8 a year. AB has shown flashes of scoring like any one else on the list, and plays better D then any of them.
I'm not saying what so ever he should get their money, some of them shouldn't be getting their money. Your right he should be in the Tony Allen 5 to 6 a year range, a bit hire because he can shoot better.
So you can see why him or his agent would push the 8 mill mark, because they are going to speculation that he will be as good as anyone making that kind of money. Were realistically he should be around 6 a year.
OK, here is where the disconnect is. To me, all of those guys showed significantly more than Bradley has before they got their contract and/or were better fits for their position.
Just to go through them one by one (because I am bored):
Butler was one of the best 2-way SFs in the game a few years ago. He was a guy who was coveted by a lot of teams. He became overpaid because he got old. Not really a good comparison IMO.
Jennings is one of the better scoring PGs in the league, and has shown the potential to be an All-star caliber player. Bradley isn't in his league.
Teague - see Jennings, although I think Jennings has more potential. Last year Teague averaged 15 and 7, and has been a primary offensive option for a decent team for a couple years.
Mayo got overpaid after a good contract year, but even then, he still has been a much more productive player than Bradley.
Stuckey was a consistent two-way player who has been Detriots primary perimeter threat for a number of years.
Lin - OK, you got me there, they overpaid a guy because they thought he could sell tickets.
Ariza - now we're talking. I think Ariza is the closest thing to Bradley on this list. He is a strong defender who is limited offensively. But the fact that he is a 6'7" (or maybe bigger) SF makes a big difference. Bradley is at a major disadvantage being a 6'2" SG.
The overall point though, is that while perimeter players do get paid $8 million a year, even if they are not All-stars, DEFENSIVE perimeter players are very rarely given that kind of contract. The guys you listed in my opinion are not comparables to Bradley. Most of them are versatile offensive players, who were paid because of their ability to score. In general, that is what gets perimeter players paid, putting the ball in the hoop.
Guys whose greatest strength is defense just don't get paid big money, unless they are big men. Tony Allen, James Posey, Mikael Pietrus, Thabo Sefolosha, Bruce Bowen, Shane Battier, Raja Bell. Most of these guys maxed out at MLE money. And most of them would actually be seen as MORE valuable than Bradley, because they were all able to cover bigger wings, which tends to be the most common position for elite scorers in the NBA.
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I do think that some people underestimate Bradley's value because they can't get past his (lack of) height.
I think his record shows that if you don't make him play point guard, he's a guy who is very likely to be named first or second team All-Defensive and could score 14-15 ppg with 40% shooting on threes.
If you believed Bradley is likely to play at that level over the next four years with some potential to be better, how much is he worth? How much more would you be willing to give him if he had the same numbers but was three inches taller?
i said already that as of today i would go as high as 4/29. if he was 3 inches taller i would up that to 4/29.5 or maybe 4/30
Ok, now I'm curious as to the actual barrier between 4/29 and 4/29.5
Is it based on anything to do with the luxury tax ceiling, or is it just a comfort level thing (AB is worth ~7.25 but not ~7.37 a year?)
just a comfort level. i actually changed my mind on what i would pay him thought as i had thought the mid level was worth more.
the non tax payer mid level for next off season is $5.150 million(i thought it was up over 6) for up to 4 years. it can have raises up to 4.5% of the first years(i had assumed it was 4.5% of year 1, then of year 2 and so on) salary.
so the most a team can offer him (unless there more then $5.150 million under the cap) is 4 years and a total of $21,295,250 for ~$5.33 million per year.
lets assume the cap goes up from $58.679 million to $62 million next year to be on the safe side. for the sake of this post im going to consider player options as being used by the player unless the option is clearly below market value. im also going to not count non guaranteed contracts, but i am going to count qualifying offers on restricted free agents.
Philly, Toronto, Utah, Cleavland, Detroit, Lakers, Phoenix, Atlanta, Charlotte, Orlando, Washington and Dallas can all hypothetically be far enough under the cap to offer Avery $6 million
Milwaukee if they dont make a qualifying offer on Udoh can also be far enough under. however there draft pick probably will push them to close to the cap, depending how high it is and how much the cap actual goes up.
i figure the teams that could realistically be under the cap and who would also be interested in Bradly are Toronto, Detroit, Phoenix, and Dallas.
im stating to think he was stupid to turn down 4/24. very few teams will be able to offer him even that much. granted a sign and trade opens things up but since hes a restricted free agent we have no incentive to do that unless we feel were getting a(imo far)superior deal
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He didn't turn down 4/24. He turned down 3/18 with team option. Big difference in having 3 years locked in and four years.
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He didn't turn down 4/24. He turned down 3/18 with team option. Big difference in having 3 years locked in and four years.
That sounds more like it...is there a link?
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He didn't turn down 4/24. He turned down 3/18 with team option. Big difference in having 3 years locked in and four years.
That sounds more like it...is there a link?
It's the information that the OP posted and everyone has based this thread on.
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I do think that some people underestimate Bradley's value because they can't get past his (lack of) height.
I think his record shows that if you don't make him play point guard, he's a guy who is very likely to be named first or second team All-Defensive and could score 14-15 ppg with 40% shooting on threes.
If you believed Bradley is likely to play at that level over the next four years with some potential to be better, how much is he worth? How much more would you be willing to give him if he had the same numbers but was three inches taller?
i said already that as of today i would go as high as 4/29. if he was 3 inches taller i would up that to 4/29.5 or maybe 4/30
Ok, now I'm curious as to the actual barrier between 4/29 and 4/29.5
Is it based on anything to do with the luxury tax ceiling, or is it just a comfort level thing (AB is worth ~7.25 but not ~7.37 a year?)
just a comfort level. i actually changed my mind on what i would pay him thought as i had thought the mid level was worth more.
the non tax payer mid level for next off season is $5.150 million(i thought it was up over 6) for up to 4 years. it can have raises up to 4.5% of the first years(i had assumed it was 4.5% of year 1, then of year 2 and so on) salary.
so the most a team can offer him (unless there more then $5.150 million under the cap) is 4 years and a total of $21,295,250 for ~$5.33 million per year.
lets assume the cap goes up from $58.679 million to $62 million next year to be on the safe side. for the sake of this post im going to consider player options as being used by the player unless the option is clearly below market value. im also going to not count non guaranteed contracts, but i am going to count qualifying offers on restricted free agents.
Philly, Toronto, Utah, Cleavland, Detroit, Lakers, Phoenix, Atlanta, Charlotte, Orlando, Washington and Dallas can all hypothetically be far enough under the cap to offer Avery $6 million
Milwaukee if they dont make a qualifying offer on Udoh can also be far enough under. however there draft pick probably will push them to close to the cap, depending how high it is and how much the cap actual goes up.
i figure the teams that could realistically be under the cap and who would also be interested in Bradly are Toronto, Detroit, Phoenix, and Dallas.
im stating to think he was stupid to turn down 4/24. very few teams will be able to offer him even that much. granted a sign and trade opens things up but since hes a restricted free agent we have no incentive to do that unless we feel were getting a(imo far)superior deal
Yeah, I think you're right--even at 3/18 with a player option seems like it's about as good of a deal as he's going to get. And based on your list of potential teams (I think Detroit might be the strongest suitor, based on how their rookie SG pans out), I don't really see him leaving for greener pastures.
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I'd say that the deal Ainge offered him represents the maximum amount I'd want to invest in him.
Bradley is a nice enough player, but he's a role player. Unless Ainge thinks this team is just a piece or two away from a contender, it makes very little sense to invest a lot of money into a role player like Bradley. Chances are, the team will just end up viewing him as a middling sort of piece who they'd prefer to move in a deal for an expiring and a pick, similar to the situation this year with Bass and Lee.
Isn't Bradley rather comparative to Bass, actually? He's a great individual defender and a solid team defender, he's undersized for his position, and he gets by offensively with one or two pretty good skills (in Bass's case, it's one elite skill) and by having above average athleticism.
Similar to Bass, I think Bradley is a guy who can be an okay starter in the absence of a more well-rounded player, but in an ideal situation he's a bench guy.
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so i asked a good friend of mine who pays very close attention to NBA rosters and contracts what he thought about Bradly and his free agency. he said he thinks Bradly may end up in the same situation Gerald Henderson found himself in last year. Gerald rejected a similar extension only to end up with no better offers in free agency.he ended up signing for less then the extension he had previously declined.
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this is why he's been chucking so much more this year
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this is why he's been chucking so much more this year
He is actually considerably more efficient this year than last. His fg% is up from 40% to almost 45% and his 3p% is up from 32% to 40%. His 1.3 apg is something you may want to be concerned about, but the reason he is shooting more this year is because KG/PP/JT are gone, not because he is just 'chucking'.
That being said, I agree with those that think he should be maxed out at 4/24; however, we do need to clear Lee off the books if we do this extension.
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Those $8m a year long term deals usually are bad for the team, but great for the player. AB is a very good defender, but it takes him 12.7 shots a game to score 13.2 points. Since he never gets to the line, I don't see him ever being a very efficient scorer, since his game is based on the least valued shot in today's game, the mid-range 2 pointer.
AB has no off the dribble game at all, and even if his three point shooting continues to improve, his inability to create offense and his size for a SG will never make him anything more than a solid role player. The four year, $24m deal was the right number. By not taking it, Ab might have forced Ainge to
perk him out of town.
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Chris Mannix @ChrisMannixSI 2h
Avery Bradley playing his way into a nice new contract. Several execs peg him in four-year, $30 million range.
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7 1/2 million a year? If his offense continues to grow mature yes, if not S &T for a more balanced player.
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I'd offer him a two year deal at $8 million per year. That way his deal expires at the same time as Wallace, Lee, and Green. Gives the team more time to decide whether to invest in him long term.
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I'd trade him. I doubt his value will ever be higher.
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I'd trade him. I doubt his value will ever be higher.
I'm leaning in this direction too -- I feel that Green + Bradley or even Bradley + Bass could be a strong package for a good player that some other team undervalues or can't afford to keep.
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I do think that some people underestimate Bradley's value because they can't get past his (lack of) height.
I think his record shows that if you don't make him play point guard, he's a guy who is very likely to be named first or second team All-Defensive and could score 14-15 ppg with 40% shooting on threes.
If you believed Bradley is likely to play at that level over the next four years with some potential to be better, how much is he worth? How much more would you be willing to give him if he had the same numbers but was three inches taller?
i said already that as of today i would go as high as 4/29. if he was 3 inches taller i would up that to 4/29.5 or maybe 4/30
Ok, now I'm curious as to the actual barrier between 4/29 and 4/29.5
Is it based on anything to do with the luxury tax ceiling, or is it just a comfort level thing (AB is worth ~7.25 but not ~7.37 a year?)
just a comfort level. i actually changed my mind on what i would pay him thought as i had thought the mid level was worth more.
the non tax payer mid level for next off season is $5.150 million(i thought it was up over 6) for up to 4 years. it can have raises up to 4.5% of the first years(i had assumed it was 4.5% of year 1, then of year 2 and so on) salary.
so the most a team can offer him (unless there more then $5.150 million under the cap) is 4 years and a total of $21,295,250 for ~$5.33 million per year.
lets assume the cap goes up from $58.679 million to $62 million next year to be on the safe side. for the sake of this post im going to consider player options as being used by the player unless the option is clearly below market value. im also going to not count non guaranteed contracts, but i am going to count qualifying offers on restricted free agents.
Philly, Toronto, Utah, Cleavland, Detroit, Lakers, Phoenix, Atlanta, Charlotte, Orlando, Washington and Dallas can all hypothetically be far enough under the cap to offer Avery $6 million
Milwaukee if they dont make a qualifying offer on Udoh can also be far enough under. however there draft pick probably will push them to close to the cap, depending how high it is and how much the cap actual goes up.
i figure the teams that could realistically be under the cap and who would also be interested in Bradly are Toronto, Detroit, Phoenix, and Dallas.
im stating to think he was stupid to turn down 4/24. very few teams will be able to offer him even that much. granted a sign and trade opens things up but since hes a restricted free agent we have no incentive to do that unless we feel were getting a(imo far)superior deal
You've got the MLE numbers for this year. Next year the first-year is $5.305 million, and over four years is $22,652,350. If that's his rock bottom floor of a contract (and I think it is), and his ceiling for a contract is probably Aaron Afflalo, ($37.5 mil over 5 years), then he was certainly right to turn down $24 mil over 4 years. And as a restricted free agent, Danny was probably right to not offer much more, because he knows Bradley's ceiling on an offer too, and can always match it if he wants.
I could very easily see Atlanta offering in the $7-8 million range. I wouldn't be surprised to see Dallas and Phoenix also make similar offers. I could also see no one offering Bradley a contract because they didn't want their cap space held for a few days during the offseason while the Celtics debated matching it. But I don't think Bradley or his agent were crazy not to go for $24 mil/4 years. The way AB has played since being moved to SG, that offer isn't going away.