CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Celtics18 on November 14, 2013, 11:08:34 AM
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The statement in the title of this thread seems to me like a pretty fair assumption to make. I don't think anyone would disagree that he's our best player. Some might disagree with this next part, but it seems to me that Danny has attempted to put together a roster, and coach Stevens is attempting to implement a system, that are perfect fits for Rajon's game.
I'm wondering, for those who think that there's no way this team makes the playoffs: Do you think Rondo's not coming back with a significant amount of the season still to play, or do you simply disagree that he is likely to make the team better when he does return?
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Of course he makes them better.
The better question: Does this team help Rondo be better?
I don't think it does. Rondo can still be good, but because of his game as a pass first PG, I don't think the team will allow him to be great. He needs better weapons.
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Of course he makes them better.
The better question: Does this team help Rondo be better?
I don't think it does. Rondo can still be good, but because of his game as a pass first PG, I don't think the team will allow him to be great. He needs better weapons.
Disagree completely with your assessment.
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Of course he makes them better.
The better question: Does this team help Rondo be better?
I don't think it does. Rondo can still be good, but because of his game as a pass first PG, I don't think the team will allow him to be great. He needs better weapons.
Disagree completely with your assessment.
Why? Who is the good (I am not even looking for great at the moment) offensive player that gets even better with Rondo? Who are the spot up shooter to make teams pay when Rondo penetrates? (or at least spreads the floor)
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Of course he makes them better.
The better question: Does this team help Rondo be better?
I don't think it does. Rondo can still be good, but because of his game as a pass first PG, I don't think the team will allow him to be great. He needs better weapons.
Disagree completely with your assessment.
I think he'll miss too much of the season to make an impact...enough of an impact to make the playoffs anyway.
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Of course he makes them better.
The better question: Does this team help Rondo be better?
I don't think it does. Rondo can still be good, but because of his game as a pass first PG, I don't think the team will allow him to be great. He needs better weapons.
Disagree completely with your assessment.
what part do you disagree with? That Rondo can still be good or that he needs better weapons? I can't see how that's not an easy statement to support.
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Of course he makes them better.
The better question: Does this team help Rondo be better?
I don't think it does. Rondo can still be good, but because of his game as a pass first PG, I don't think the team will allow him to be great. He needs better weapons.
Disagree completely with your assessment.
Why? Who is the good (I am not even looking for great at the moment) offensive player that gets even better with Rondo? Who are the spot up shooter to make teams pay when Rondo penetrates? (or at least spreads the floor)
What makes the good or great offensive players good or great is that they can create offense by themselves. Rondo doesn't need a bunch of guys around him who can do that. He needs guys who can hit shots when they are given open looks. We have those guys. They aren't stars with the ball in their hands, but with Rondo setting everybody up, they will all look better, which in turn will make the team better, which in turn will make Rondo look better.
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Of course he makes them better.
The better question: Does this team help Rondo be better?
I don't think it does. Rondo can still be good, but because of his game as a pass first PG, I don't think the team will allow him to be great. He needs better weapons.
Disagree completely with your assessment.
Why? Who is the good (I am not even looking for great at the moment) offensive player that gets even better with Rondo? Who are the spot up shooter to make teams pay when Rondo penetrates? (or at least spreads the floor)
What makes the good or great offensive players good or great is that they can create offense by themselves. Rondo doesn't need a bunch of guys around him who can do that. He needs guys who can hit shots when they are given open looks. We have those guys. They aren't stars with the ball in their hands, but with Rondo setting everybody up, they will all look better, which in turn will make the team better, which in turn will make Rondo look better.
A good offensive player does not have to make his own play with the ball to make a basket.
For example, Reggie Miller (or Rip Hamilton)
Moved without the ball to get open. Had a great passing PG in Mark Jackson when knew how to get the ball to him at the exact time needed to hit the open shot.
And both PGs pulled defenses inside. Rondo with his penetration and Jackson with his post up.
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my thoughts - and I preface this by saying Rondo is a great player one of the handful best play makers in the NBA but he is not going to make this team much better than it is right now. First, he is coming off a knee injury, look at what's going on with Rose in Chicago? There is a reason people say it takes a year of playing before you get back to the level you were at before the injury. 2nd he was surrounded by two sometimes three HOF's who were great shooters. He doesn't have any of that now. Too think that Rondo is going to come back after taking 10-12 months off from playing professional basketball and be the same guy is just unrealistic and unfair.
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The better question: Does this team help Rondo be better?
I think teammates such as Gerald Wallace might make it harder for Rondo to take plays off on defense, while players such as Pressey and Crawford may allow Rondo to go all-out instead of trying to conserve energy for the fourth quarter.
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First, he is coming off a knee injury, look at what's going on with Rose in Chicago?
Not every player recovers the same way. And maybe some of Rose's problems are because he is mentally weaker than Rondo.
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my thoughts - and I preface this by saying Rondo is a great player one of the handful best play makers in the NBA but he is not going to make this team much better than it is right now. First, he is coming off a knee injury, look at what's going on with Rose in Chicago? There is a reason people say it takes a year of playing before you get back to the level you were at before the injury. 2nd he was surrounded by two sometimes three HOF's who were great shooters. He doesn't have any of that now. Too think that Rondo is going to come back after taking 10-12 months off from playing professional basketball and be the same guy is just unrealistic and unfair.
On the other hand, Rondo is eager to play, playing 3 on 3 for example without being cleared by the doctors, while Rose was afraid to even practice even after getting the go ahead by the doctors...
Different set of circumstances, injury, mental make-up, and players.
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I agree - but a torn ACL is a torn ACL just because he wants to play doesn't mean he is physically capable of playing at the same level? For Rondo to make this team better he would have to hit the ground at an Elite level right out of the gate. It's one thing if this was 2008 or 2009 when he had a healthy KG, Ray and Pierce to carry the load until he got his legs underneath him? But with this roster he would have to play at a MVP level to make this team better and I think that is unrealistic....at least this year. Now, 2014 it's possible...
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Yes. Everyone remember this.
Not everyone is Adrian Peterson. Peterson is some sort of freak of nature being able to do what he did off that injury.
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Yes he will help, he don't have to play old man ball now and can run. I think we will see a side to Rondo that trumps what we have seen before.
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my thoughts - and I preface this by saying Rondo is a great player one of the handful best play makers in the NBA but he is not going to make this team much better than it is right now. First, he is coming off a knee injury, look at what's going on with Rose in Chicago? There is a reason people say it takes a year of playing before you get back to the level you were at before the injury. 2nd he was surrounded by two sometimes three HOF's who were great shooters. He doesn't have any of that now. Too think that Rondo is going to come back after taking 10-12 months off from playing professional basketball and be the same guy is just unrealistic and unfair.
On the other hand, Rondo is eager to play, playing 3 on 3 for example without being cleared by the doctors, while Rose was afraid to even practice even after getting the go ahead by the doctors...
Different set of circumstances, injury, mental make-up, and players.
Rose was afraid to practice? I haven't seen that anywhere.
I will say that Chicago's medical staff and front office have given a few reasons why they're not to be trusted in regards to their injury clearance.
Rondo will be back when he comes back. He will make the team better by virtue of being on the floor, and I suspect he'll be back in playing shape and playing at a high level by the time the 2013 season is in the books.
I don't believe that we can win a title or seriously contend in the playoffs when our best players are Rondo and Jeff Green.
As for making the playoffs--it really depends on when he comes back and how the rest of the team plays for the duration of his absence. If we're still hovering around .500 after the All-Star Break and the trade deadline, it's certainly possible that we sneak in to one of the lower seeds--playing .500 ball got us in to the 7th seed last year, after all.
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Of course he makes them better.
The better question: Does this team help Rondo be better?
I don't think it does. Rondo can still be good, but because of his game as a pass first PG, I don't think the team will allow him to be great. He needs better weapons.
Disagree completely with your assessment.
Why? Who is the good (I am not even looking for great at the moment) offensive player that gets even better with Rondo? Who are the spot up shooter to make teams pay when Rondo penetrates? (or at least spreads the floor)
So you're claiming that you don't see any players on the current roster that would benefit from getting easier scoring opportunities?
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Of course he makes them better.
The better question: Does this team help Rondo be better?
I don't think it does. Rondo can still be good, but because of his game as a pass first PG, I don't think the team will allow him to be great. He needs better weapons.
Disagree completely with your assessment.
Why? Who is the good (I am not even looking for great at the moment) offensive player that gets even better with Rondo? Who are the spot up shooter to make teams pay when Rondo penetrates? (or at least spreads the floor)
So you're claiming that you don't see any players on the current roster that would benefit from getting easier scoring opportunities?
This roster is not filled with great shooters, that's when Rondo is at his best. They have pick and pop with Bass and that's about it? Last year he had Bass, KG, Pierce and JET. This year he has Bass? Who is going to consistently knock down shots, whether they are good looks or not?
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Of course he makes them better.
The better question: Does this team help Rondo be better?
I don't think it does. Rondo can still be good, but because of his game as a pass first PG, I don't think the team will allow him to be great. He needs better weapons.
Disagree completely with your assessment.
Why? Who is the good (I am not even looking for great at the moment) offensive player that gets even better with Rondo? Who are the spot up shooter to make teams pay when Rondo penetrates? (or at least spreads the floor)
So you're claiming that you don't see any players on the current roster that would benefit from getting easier scoring opportunities?
Re-read what I said.
The roster is going to get a boost playing with Rondo. (rondo help the rest of the team)
The roster is not going to help Rondo be the best Rondo can be. (roster is going to hold Rondo back)
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Of course he makes them better.
The better question: Does this team help Rondo be better?
I don't think it does. Rondo can still be good, but because of his game as a pass first PG, I don't think the team will allow him to be great. He needs better weapons.
Disagree completely with your assessment.
Why? Who is the good (I am not even looking for great at the moment) offensive player that gets even better with Rondo? Who are the spot up shooter to make teams pay when Rondo penetrates? (or at least spreads the floor)
So you're claiming that you don't see any players on the current roster that would benefit from getting easier scoring opportunities?
This roster is not filled with great shooters, that's when Rondo is at his best. They have pick and pop with Bass and that's about it? Last year he had Bass, KG, Pierce and JET. This year he has Bass? Who is going to consistently knock down shots, whether they are good looks or not?
When you say "that's when Rondo is at his best", what are you basing that on? Can you show that Rondo's been unable to succeed without certain players on the court?
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First, he is coming off a knee injury, look at what's going on with Rose in Chicago?
Not every player recovers the same way. And maybe some of Rose's problems are because he is mentally weaker than Rondo.
Rose also had a bad knee and hamstrings all year before his knee finally blew. His injury may have been much worse than just an ACL tear for all we know.
Plus guys just heal differently.
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Last night the bobcats didnt fall for the jcraw/oly pnr
Instead of double teaming jcraw they dared him to shoot or go to the basket, olynyk was guarded tightly and you couldnt pass it the open man.
Jcraw needed to take it to the rim but he doesnt really have that skill. Pressey also doesnt. No post presence also. Good job by the cats on picking us apart.
Once sully comesback hopefully it will fix one part of the problem. But if it doesnt , we really need rondo back quick before a long losing streak may result
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There are many fans that believe Rondo is so good that he will lob the ball to mediocre players who will then slam down dunks all night. I am not one of those who buy this. I think Rondo is going to have a much tougher time on a weaker team. His MO is actually to dribble around a lot because once he is off the ball, his man sags and Rondo just stands in the corner on near the basketball.
I don't think Rondo is going to play all that much better than what Crawford played though the 4 wins (I don't think Crawford will keep that up either). Rondo will be an upgrade, no doubt and will allow either Crawford or Bradley to come off the bench, improving our depth considerably (meaning Rondo's minutes replace Pressey minutes). I just really don't see Rondo carrying the team to another level.
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There are many fans that believe Rondo is so good that he will lob the ball to mediocre players who will then slam down dunks all night. I am not one of those who buy this. I think Rondo is going to have a much tougher time on a weaker team. His MO is actually to dribble around a lot because once he is off the ball, his man sags and Rondo just stands in the corner on near the basketball.
I don't think Rondo is going to play all that much better than what Crawford played though the 4 wins (I don't think Crawford will keep that up either). Rondo will be an upgrade, no doubt and will allow either Crawford or Bradley to come off the bench, improving our depth considerably (meaning Rondo's minutes replace Pressey minutes). I just really don't see Rondo carrying the team to another level.
Hi, I'm Chris Wilcox, former NBA basketball player for the Boston Celtics...
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Of course he makes them better.
The better question: Does this team help Rondo be better?
I don't think it does. Rondo can still be good, but because of his game as a pass first PG, I don't think the team will allow him to be great. He needs better weapons.
Disagree completely with your assessment.
Why? Who is the good (I am not even looking for great at the moment) offensive player that gets even better with Rondo? Who are the spot up shooter to make teams pay when Rondo penetrates? (or at least spreads the floor)
So you're claiming that you don't see any players on the current roster that would benefit from getting easier scoring opportunities?
This roster is not filled with great shooters, that's when Rondo is at his best. They have pick and pop with Bass and that's about it? Last year he had Bass, KG, Pierce and JET. This year he has Bass? Who is going to consistently knock down shots, whether they are good looks or not?
When you say "that's when Rondo is at his best", what are you basing that on? Can you show that Rondo's been unable to succeed without certain players on the court?
Can you show me the pass first PG who did not have a good outside shot (though Rondo has improved on his) that was at their "best" when surrounded by at best, decent offensive players and no real outside threat?
Because lets be honest, Rondo has been blessed with good shooters and good offensive players. That's a positive thing for a PG that plays like he does. He hasn't ever been hampered by the beginnings of a rebuild.
Now, the team needs him to be more of an AI? Does Rondo even have the offensive weapons that AI had when he was considered the only weapon on a team that made the finals?
(and no, I would not want an AI player instead of Rondo)
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There are many fans that believe Rondo is so good that he will lob the ball to mediocre players who will then slam down dunks all night. I am not one of those who buy this. I think Rondo is going to have a much tougher time on a weaker team. His MO is actually to dribble around a lot because once he is off the ball, his man sags and Rondo just stands in the corner on near the basketball.
I don't think Rondo is going to play all that much better than what Crawford played though the 4 wins (I don't think Crawford will keep that up either). Rondo will be an upgrade, no doubt and will allow either Crawford or Bradley to come off the bench, improving our depth considerably (meaning Rondo's minutes replace Pressey minutes). I just really don't see Rondo carrying the team to another level.
Hi, I'm Chris Wilcox, former NBA basketball player for the Boston Celtics...
Who was surrounded by Rondo, Pierce, KG... such that I was the 5th option out there they ignored. Who are option 2-thorugh 4 now that teams will leave me open?
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There are many fans that believe Rondo is so good that he will lob the ball to mediocre players who will then slam down dunks all night. I am not one of those who buy this. I think Rondo is going to have a much tougher time on a weaker team. His MO is actually to dribble around a lot because once he is off the ball, his man sags and Rondo just stands in the corner on near the basketball.
I don't think Rondo is going to play all that much better than what Crawford played though the 4 wins (I don't think Crawford will keep that up either). Rondo will be an upgrade, no doubt and will allow either Crawford or Bradley to come off the bench, improving our depth considerably (meaning Rondo's minutes replace Pressey minutes). I just really don't see Rondo carrying the team to another level.
Hi, I'm Chris Wilcox, former NBA basketball player for the Boston Celtics...
Who was surrounded by Rondo, Pierce, KG... such that I was the 5th option out there they ignored. Who are option 2-thorugh 4 now that teams will leave me open?
If we're still talking about Wilcox... I'm pretty sure he'd still be the 5th option. ;D
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Last night the bobcats didnt fall for the jcraw/oly pnr
Instead of double teaming jcraw they dared him to shoot or go to the basket, olynyk was guarded tightly and you couldnt pass it the open man.
Jcraw needed to take it to the rim but he doesnt really have that skill. Pressey also doesnt. No post presence also. Good job by the cats on picking us apart.
Once sully comesback hopefully it will fix one part of the problem. But if it doesnt , we really need rondo back quick before a long losing streak may result
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There are many fans that believe Rondo is so good that he will lob the ball to mediocre players who will then slam down dunks all night. I am not one of those who buy this. I think Rondo is going to have a much tougher time on a weaker team. His MO is actually to dribble around a lot because once he is off the ball, his man sags and Rondo just stands in the corner on near the basketball.
I don't think Rondo is going to play all that much better than what Crawford played though the 4 wins (I don't think Crawford will keep that up either). Rondo will be an upgrade, no doubt and will allow either Crawford or Bradley to come off the bench, improving our depth considerably (meaning Rondo's minutes replace Pressey minutes). I just really don't see Rondo carrying the team to another level.
I agree with some of the pts made. Though rondo unlike jcraw has the ability to drive past his defender at will and either score a layup or make the pass. IF teams are smart and watch videos they will just lay off rondo and dare him to shoot. And if that doesnt fall we are in trouble(assuming everyone else is guarded tightly) plus we dont have a pp or ray allen.
We will be a better team now when rondo comesback but he prob cant us to another level. If this means we should trade him or get more help soon im just as clueless as the next fan
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Rondo can make the shot that teams will give him, i.e. the midrange. It's the free-throw shooting that he's awful at. He doesn't need to take threes to be effective at PG (see Parker, Tony).
We don't have PP or Allen, but we do have Green and Olynyk, a pair of walking mismatches waiting to score on their defender. We also have good passing big men, which is kind of neat to think about with Rondo.
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There are many fans that believe Rondo is so good that he will lob the ball to mediocre players who will then slam down dunks all night. I am not one of those who buy this. I think Rondo is going to have a much tougher time on a weaker team. His MO is actually to dribble around a lot because once he is off the ball, his man sags and Rondo just stands in the corner on near the basketball.
I don't think Rondo is going to play all that much better than what Crawford played though the 4 wins (I don't think Crawford will keep that up either). Rondo will be an upgrade, no doubt and will allow either Crawford or Bradley to come off the bench, improving our depth considerably (meaning Rondo's minutes replace Pressey minutes). I just really don't see Rondo carrying the team to another level.
I agree with some of the pts made. Though rondo unlike jcraw has the ability to drive past his defender at will and either score a layup or make the pass. IF teams are smart and watch videos they will just lay off rondo and dare him to shoot. And if that doesnt fall we are in trouble(assuming everyone else is guarded tightly) plus we dont have a pp or ray allen.
We will be a better team now when rondo comesback but he prob cant us to another level. If this means we should trade him or get more help soon im just as clueless as the next fan
Small sample size, but assuming you're flexible enough to add his Westbrook-esque close range pullup to his layups, Crawford's been doing that all season.
Not that Rondo isn't an upgrade at the point, of course.
Rondo can make the shot that teams will give him, i.e. the midrange. It's the free-throw shooting that he's awful at. He doesn't need to take threes to be effective at PG (see Parker, Tony).
That's true, but how fun would it be if he magically started shooting, say, 40% from deep off-the-dribble?
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There are many fans that believe Rondo is so good that he will lob the ball to mediocre players who will then slam down dunks all night. I am not one of those who buy this. I think Rondo is going to have a much tougher time on a weaker team. His MO is actually to dribble around a lot because once he is off the ball, his man sags and Rondo just stands in the corner on near the basketball.
I don't think Rondo is going to play all that much better than what Crawford played though the 4 wins (I don't think Crawford will keep that up either). Rondo will be an upgrade, no doubt and will allow either Crawford or Bradley to come off the bench, improving our depth considerably (meaning Rondo's minutes replace Pressey minutes). I just really don't see Rondo carrying the team to another level.
I agree with some of the pts made. Though rondo unlike jcraw has the ability to drive past his defender at will and either score a layup or make the pass. IF teams are smart and watch videos they will just lay off rondo and dare him to shoot. And if that doesnt fall we are in trouble(assuming everyone else is guarded tightly) plus we dont have a pp or ray allen.
We will be a better team now when rondo comesback but he prob cant us to another level. If this means we should trade him or get more help soon im just as clueless as the next fan
Backing off Rondo and daring him to shoot doesn't really work. Part of that is his improved mid range jump shot, but more important is the fact that even when guys go under picks or back off him when he has the ball in his hands, he still gets in the lane, he still finds open guys, and he still makes plays. You can even make the argument that when the defender plays Rondo by giving him a lot of space, it just makes it easier for him to pick the defense apart.
The notion that all you have to do is play off Rondo and you render him ineffective is pure mythology.
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Rondo can make the shot that teams will give him, i.e. the midrange. It's the free-throw shooting that he's awful at. He doesn't need to take threes to be effective at PG (see Parker, Tony).
That's true, but how fun would it be if he magically started shooting, say, 40% from deep off-the-dribble?
That would be exciting. I wouldn't mind giving a max contract to Cliff Paul.
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Rondo can make the shot that teams will give him, i.e. the midrange. It's the free-throw shooting that he's awful at. He doesn't need to take threes to be effective at PG (see Parker, Tony).
That's true, but how fun would it be if he magically started shooting, say, 40% from deep off-the-dribble?
That would be exciting. I wouldn't mind giving a max contract to Cliff Paul.
The last thing I want is a point guard who consistently pulls up from beyond the arc off the dribble. I hate that shot.
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Backing off Rondo and daring him to shoot doesn't really work. Part of that is his improved mid range jump shot, but more important is the fact that even when guys go under picks or back off him when he has the ball in his hands, he still gets in the lane, he still finds open guys, and he still makes plays. You can even make the argument that when the defender plays Rondo by giving him a lot of space, it just makes it easier for him to pick the defense apart.
The notion that all you have to do is play off Rondo and you render him ineffective is pure mythology.
Indeed. Some may remember when a certain team tried this strategy against him in the playoffs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndyfsS0bFK8
WHOOPS.
The last thing I want is a point guard who consistently pulls up from beyond the arc off the dribble. I hate that shot.
I don't like it either, but if it goes in 40% of the time, I've got both feet on the bandwagon and I'm bringing friends.
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There are many fans that believe Rondo is so good that he will lob the ball to mediocre players who will then slam down dunks all night. I am not one of those who buy this. I think Rondo is going to have a much tougher time on a weaker team. His MO is actually to dribble around a lot because once he is off the ball, his man sags and Rondo just stands in the corner on near the basketball.
I don't think Rondo is going to play all that much better than what Crawford played though the 4 wins (I don't think Crawford will keep that up either). Rondo will be an upgrade, no doubt and will allow either Crawford or Bradley to come off the bench, improving our depth considerably (meaning Rondo's minutes replace Pressey minutes). I just really don't see Rondo carrying the team to another level.
I agree with some of the pts made. Though rondo unlike jcraw has the ability to drive past his defender at will and either score a layup or make the pass. IF teams are smart and watch videos they will just lay off rondo and dare him to shoot. And if that doesnt fall we are in trouble(assuming everyone else is guarded tightly) plus we dont have a pp or ray allen.
We will be a better team now when rondo comesback but he prob cant us to another level. If this means we should trade him or get more help soon im just as clueless as the next fan
Backing off Rondo and daring him to shoot doesn't really work. Part of that is his improved mid range jump shot, but more important is the fact that even when guys go under picks or back off him when he has the ball in his hands, he still gets in the lane, he still finds open guys, and he still makes plays. You can even make the argument that when the defender plays Rondo by giving him a lot of space, it just makes it easier for him to pick the defense apart.
The notion that all you have to do is play off Rondo and you render him ineffective is pure mythology.
Its not a myth. Why do you think rondo is so ineffective in scoring in 4th quarter against top teams?
They lay off and dare him to beat them with his jump shot. I dont remember the last time rondo crushed a team with his jumpers late in the game.
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Rondo can make the shot that teams will give him, i.e. the midrange. It's the free-throw shooting that he's awful at. He doesn't need to take threes to be effective at PG (see Parker, Tony).
That's true, but how fun would it be if he magically started shooting, say, 40% from deep off-the-dribble?
That would be exciting. I wouldn't mind giving a max contract to Cliff Paul.
The last thing I want is a point guard who consistently pulls up from beyond the arc off the dribble. I hate that shot.
I weep for your soul. ;D
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Rondo can make the shot that teams will give him, i.e. the midrange. It's the free-throw shooting that he's awful at. He doesn't need to take threes to be effective at PG (see Parker, Tony).
That's true, but how fun would it be if he magically started shooting, say, 40% from deep off-the-dribble?
That would be exciting. I wouldn't mind giving a max contract to Cliff Paul.
The last thing I want is a point guard who consistently pulls up from beyond the arc off the dribble. I hate that shot.
I weep for your soul. ;D
Really? To me the pull up three is the most soulless shot in basketball.
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There are many fans that believe Rondo is so good that he will lob the ball to mediocre players who will then slam down dunks all night. I am not one of those who buy this. I think Rondo is going to have a much tougher time on a weaker team. His MO is actually to dribble around a lot because once he is off the ball, his man sags and Rondo just stands in the corner on near the basketball.
I don't think Rondo is going to play all that much better than what Crawford played though the 4 wins (I don't think Crawford will keep that up either). Rondo will be an upgrade, no doubt and will allow either Crawford or Bradley to come off the bench, improving our depth considerably (meaning Rondo's minutes replace Pressey minutes). I just really don't see Rondo carrying the team to another level.
I agree with some of the pts made. Though rondo unlike jcraw has the ability to drive past his defender at will and either score a layup or make the pass. IF teams are smart and watch videos they will just lay off rondo and dare him to shoot. And if that doesnt fall we are in trouble(assuming everyone else is guarded tightly) plus we dont have a pp or ray allen.
We will be a better team now when rondo comesback but he prob cant us to another level. If this means we should trade him or get more help soon im just as clueless as the next fan
Backing off Rondo and daring him to shoot doesn't really work. Part of that is his improved mid range jump shot, but more important is the fact that even when guys go under picks or back off him when he has the ball in his hands, he still gets in the lane, he still finds open guys, and he still makes plays. You can even make the argument that when the defender plays Rondo by giving him a lot of space, it just makes it easier for him to pick the defense apart.
The notion that all you have to do is play off Rondo and you render him ineffective is pure mythology.
Its not a myth. Why do you think rondo is so ineffective in scoring in 4th quarter against top teams?
They lay off and dare him to beat them with his jump shot. I dont remember the last time rondo crushed a team with his jumpers late in the game.
Game seven in the Eastern conference semis against Philly in 2012 comes to mind. I grant you, though, that the way Rajon Rondo generally crushes the opposition is not with his jump shot. He usually does it in a variety of different ways.
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There are many fans that believe Rondo is so good that he will lob the ball to mediocre players who will then slam down dunks all night. I am not one of those who buy this. I think Rondo is going to have a much tougher time on a weaker team. His MO is actually to dribble around a lot because once he is off the ball, his man sags and Rondo just stands in the corner on near the basketball.
I don't think Rondo is going to play all that much better than what Crawford played though the 4 wins (I don't think Crawford will keep that up either). Rondo will be an upgrade, no doubt and will allow either Crawford or Bradley to come off the bench, improving our depth considerably (meaning Rondo's minutes replace Pressey minutes). I just really don't see Rondo carrying the team to another level.
I agree with some of the pts made. Though rondo unlike jcraw has the ability to drive past his defender at will and either score a layup or make the pass. IF teams are smart and watch videos they will just lay off rondo and dare him to shoot. And if that doesnt fall we are in trouble(assuming everyone else is guarded tightly) plus we dont have a pp or ray allen.
We will be a better team now when rondo comesback but he prob cant us to another level. If this means we should trade him or get more help soon im just as clueless as the next fan
Backing off Rondo and daring him to shoot doesn't really work. Part of that is his improved mid range jump shot, but more important is the fact that even when guys go under picks or back off him when he has the ball in his hands, he still gets in the lane, he still finds open guys, and he still makes plays. You can even make the argument that when the defender plays Rondo by giving him a lot of space, it just makes it easier for him to pick the defense apart.
The notion that all you have to do is play off Rondo and you render him ineffective is pure mythology.
Its not a myth. Why do you think rondo is so ineffective in scoring in 4th quarter against top teams?
They lay off and dare him to beat them with his jump shot. I dont remember the last time rondo crushed a team with his jumpers late in the game.
Where's your evidence that Rondo is so ineffective in the 4th quarter against top teams? It's easy to see (from 82games) that he's normally best or close to best in assists during crunch time.
There are two main things to be gained by backing off of Rondo and daring him to shoot. One, have his defender help towards his passing targets to limit their ability to score after he passes the ball. Two, to be far enough away from him that you prevent him from driving off of the dribble. There's ample evidence that neither one of these things occur. They don't stop him from getting assists and they don't keep him out of the lane.
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Really? To me the pull up three is the most soulless shot in basketball.
But it can look soooooooooo gooooooooood.
Although the stepback fadeaway is still, and will probably always be, the prettiest shot in the game.
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Of course he makes them better.
The better question: Does this team help Rondo be better?
I don't think it does. Rondo can still be good, but because of his game as a pass first PG, I don't think the team will allow him to be great. He needs better weapons.
Disagree completely with your assessment.
Why? Who is the good (I am not even looking for great at the moment) offensive player that gets even better with Rondo? Who are the spot up shooter to make teams pay when Rondo penetrates? (or at least spreads the floor)
So you're claiming that you don't see any players on the current roster that would benefit from getting easier scoring opportunities?
This roster is not filled with great shooters, that's when Rondo is at his best. They have pick and pop with Bass and that's about it? Last year he had Bass, KG, Pierce and JET. This year he has Bass? Who is going to consistently knock down shots, whether they are good looks or not?
When you say "that's when Rondo is at his best", what are you basing that on? Can you show that Rondo's been unable to succeed without certain players on the court?
Can you show me the pass first PG who did not have a good outside shot (though Rondo has improved on his) that was at their "best" when surrounded by at best, decent offensive players and no real outside threat?
Why don't you come up with a list of point guards with average or worse outside shots that do everything else on offense as well as Rondo and we'll go from there.
Because lets be honest, Rondo has been blessed with good shooters and good offensive players. That's a positive thing for a PG that plays like he does. He hasn't ever been hampered by the beginnings of a rebuild.
Now, the team needs him to be more of an AI? Does Rondo even have the offensive weapons that AI had when he was considered the only weapon on a team that made the finals?
(and no, I would not want an AI player instead of Rondo)
Right now the only reason Boston isn't at least average on offense is too many turnovers. Where's the evidence that we need AI on offense?
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Really? To me the pull up three is the most soulless shot in basketball.
But it can look soooooooooo gooooooooood.
Although the stepback fadeaway is still, and will probably always be, the prettiest shot in the game.
To me, nothing beats a one handed, off the dribble bounce pass from close to mid court through two or three defenders that sits up perfectly and finds a teammate at the rim for an easy lay up. Now that's pretty.
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Of course he makes them better.
The better question: Does this team help Rondo be better?
I don't think it does. Rondo can still be good, but because of his game as a pass first PG, I don't think the team will allow him to be great. He needs better weapons.
Disagree completely with your assessment.
Why? Who is the good (I am not even looking for great at the moment) offensive player that gets even better with Rondo? Who are the spot up shooter to make teams pay when Rondo penetrates? (or at least spreads the floor)
So you're claiming that you don't see any players on the current roster that would benefit from getting easier scoring opportunities?
This roster is not filled with great shooters, that's when Rondo is at his best. They have pick and pop with Bass and that's about it? Last year he had Bass, KG, Pierce and JET. This year he has Bass? Who is going to consistently knock down shots, whether they are good looks or not?
When you say "that's when Rondo is at his best", what are you basing that on? Can you show that Rondo's been unable to succeed without certain players on the court?
Can you show me the pass first PG who did not have a good outside shot (though Rondo has improved on his) that was at their "best" when surrounded by at best, decent offensive players and no real outside threat?
Why don't you come up with a list of point guards with average or worse outside shots that do everything else on offense as well as Rondo and we'll go from there.
Because lets be honest, Rondo has been blessed with good shooters and good offensive players. That's a positive thing for a PG that plays like he does. He hasn't ever been hampered by the beginnings of a rebuild.
Now, the team needs him to be more of an AI? Does Rondo even have the offensive weapons that AI had when he was considered the only weapon on a team that made the finals?
(and no, I would not want an AI player instead of Rondo)
Right now the only reason Boston isn't at least average on offense is too many turnovers. Where's the evidence that we need AI on offense?
AI's teams were average on offense when he wasn't playing as well. Someone has to take shots and someone will make baskets. They are still pros.
Why don't you give us the example of when Rondo took a team like we see now and made them a playoff team?
Of course you can't because he never has been handcuffed like he will be with this team.
Jason Kidd has some bad teams when there were no good options for him to pass to. Same with Steve Nash.
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Boston also needs to get more free throws if they want to have an average offense in addition to turning it over less.
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Why don't you give us the example of when Rondo took a team like we see now and made them a playoff team?
Keep that question in mind for the end of this season.
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Really? To me the pull up three is the most soulless shot in basketball.
But it can look soooooooooo gooooooooood.
Although the stepback fadeaway is still, and will probably always be, the prettiest shot in the game.
To me, nothing beats a one handed, off the dribble bounce pass from close to mid court through two or three defenders that sits up perfectly and finds a teammate at the rim for an easy lay up. Now that's pretty.
Agreed, but that's not a shot.
I JUST WANT OUR POINT GOD BACK.
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Of course he makes them better.
The better question: Does this team help Rondo be better?
I don't think it does. Rondo can still be good, but because of his game as a pass first PG, I don't think the team will allow him to be great. He needs better weapons.
Disagree completely with your assessment.
Why? Who is the good (I am not even looking for great at the moment) offensive player that gets even better with Rondo? Who are the spot up shooter to make teams pay when Rondo penetrates? (or at least spreads the floor)
So you're claiming that you don't see any players on the current roster that would benefit from getting easier scoring opportunities?
This roster is not filled with great shooters, that's when Rondo is at his best. They have pick and pop with Bass and that's about it? Last year he had Bass, KG, Pierce and JET. This year he has Bass? Who is going to consistently knock down shots, whether they are good looks or not?
When you say "that's when Rondo is at his best", what are you basing that on? Can you show that Rondo's been unable to succeed without certain players on the court?
Can you show me the pass first PG who did not have a good outside shot (though Rondo has improved on his) that was at their "best" when surrounded by at best, decent offensive players and no real outside threat?
Why don't you come up with a list of point guards with average or worse outside shots that do everything else on offense as well as Rondo and we'll go from there.
Because lets be honest, Rondo has been blessed with good shooters and good offensive players. That's a positive thing for a PG that plays like he does. He hasn't ever been hampered by the beginnings of a rebuild.
Now, the team needs him to be more of an AI? Does Rondo even have the offensive weapons that AI had when he was considered the only weapon on a team that made the finals?
(and no, I would not want an AI player instead of Rondo)
Right now the only reason Boston isn't at least average on offense is too many turnovers. Where's the evidence that we need AI on offense?
AI's teams were average on offense when he wasn't playing as well. Someone has to take shots and someone will make baskets. They are still pros.
Why don't you give us the example of when Rondo took a team like we see now and made them a playoff team?
Of course you can't because he never has been handcuffed like he will be with this team.
Jason Kidd has some bad teams when there were no good options for him to pass to. Same with Steve Nash.
I'm not sure the point of that. Players like Wade, Kobe and LeBron have been on teams that have missed the playoffs before. So what?
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Really? To me the pull up three is the most soulless shot in basketball.
But it can look soooooooooo gooooooooood.
Although the stepback fadeaway is still, and will probably always be, the prettiest shot in the game.
To me, nothing beats a one handed, off the dribble bounce pass from close to mid court through two or three defenders that sits up perfectly and finds a teammate at the rim for an easy lay up. Now that's pretty.
Agreed, but that's not a shot.
I JUST WANT OUR POINT GOD BACK.
Amen.
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LeBron hasn't missed the playoffs since, I think, his sexond season in the league and I 'm not sure Wade has when he's played 60+ Games.
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Carmelo's never missed the playoffs.
Norris Cole has a ring for every year he's been in the league.
I would trade Rajon Rondo's injured status for prime Allen Iverson's neigh-invincibility.
Can a team have too many pass-first players?
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There are many fans that believe Rondo is so good that he will lob the ball to mediocre players who will then slam down dunks all night. I am not one of those who buy this. I think Rondo is going to have a much tougher time on a weaker team. His MO is actually to dribble around a lot because once he is off the ball, his man sags and Rondo just stands in the corner on near the basketball.
I don't think Rondo is going to play all that much better than what Crawford played though the 4 wins (I don't think Crawford will keep that up either). Rondo will be an upgrade, no doubt and will allow either Crawford or Bradley to come off the bench, improving our depth considerably (meaning Rondo's minutes replace Pressey minutes). I just really don't see Rondo carrying the team to another level.
I agree with some of the pts made. Though rondo unlike jcraw has the ability to drive past his defender at will and either score a layup or make the pass. IF teams are smart and watch videos they will just lay off rondo and dare him to shoot. And if that doesnt fall we are in trouble(assuming everyone else is guarded tightly) plus we dont have a pp or ray allen.
We will be a better team now when rondo comesback but he prob cant us to another level. If this means we should trade him or get more help soon im just as clueless as the next fan
Backing off Rondo and daring him to shoot doesn't really work. Part of that is his improved mid range jump shot, but more important is the fact that even when guys go under picks or back off him when he has the ball in his hands, he still gets in the lane, he still finds open guys, and he still makes plays. You can even make the argument that when the defender plays Rondo by giving him a lot of space, it just makes it easier for him to pick the defense apart.
The notion that all you have to do is play off Rondo and you render him ineffective is pure mythology.
Its not a myth. Why do you think rondo is so ineffective in scoring in 4th quarter against top teams?
They lay off and dare him to beat them with his jump shot. I dont remember the last time rondo crushed a team with his jumpers late in the game.
Where's your evidence that Rondo is so ineffective in the 4th quarter against top teams? It's easy to see (from 82games) that he's normally best or close to best in assists during crunch time.
There are two main things to be gained by backing off of Rondo and daring him to shoot. One, have his defender help towards his passing targets to limit their ability to score after he passes the ball. Two, to be far enough away from him that you prevent him from driving off of the dribble. There's ample evidence that neither one of these things occur. They don't stop him from getting assists and they don't keep him out of the lane.
How about when he cant get the clutch assists your talking about?
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It would be really helpful for me (and the rest of the peanut gallery) if we could have some video or even some box scores of when these kind of situations occur.
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There are many fans that believe Rondo is so good that he will lob the ball to mediocre players who will then slam down dunks all night. I am not one of those who buy this. I think Rondo is going to have a much tougher time on a weaker team. His MO is actually to dribble around a lot because once he is off the ball, his man sags and Rondo just stands in the corner on near the basketball.
I don't think Rondo is going to play all that much better than what Crawford played though the 4 wins (I don't think Crawford will keep that up either). Rondo will be an upgrade, no doubt and will allow either Crawford or Bradley to come off the bench, improving our depth considerably (meaning Rondo's minutes replace Pressey minutes). I just really don't see Rondo carrying the team to another level.
I agree with some of the pts made. Though rondo unlike jcraw has the ability to drive past his defender at will and either score a layup or make the pass. IF teams are smart and watch videos they will just lay off rondo and dare him to shoot. And if that doesnt fall we are in trouble(assuming everyone else is guarded tightly) plus we dont have a pp or ray allen.
We will be a better team now when rondo comesback but he prob cant us to another level. If this means we should trade him or get more help soon im just as clueless as the next fan
Backing off Rondo and daring him to shoot doesn't really work. Part of that is his improved mid range jump shot, but more important is the fact that even when guys go under picks or back off him when he has the ball in his hands, he still gets in the lane, he still finds open guys, and he still makes plays. You can even make the argument that when the defender plays Rondo by giving him a lot of space, it just makes it easier for him to pick the defense apart.
The notion that all you have to do is play off Rondo and you render him ineffective is pure mythology.
Its not a myth. Why do you think rondo is so ineffective in scoring in 4th quarter against top teams?
They lay off and dare him to beat them with his jump shot. I dont remember the last time rondo crushed a team with his jumpers late in the game.
Where's your evidence that Rondo is so ineffective in the 4th quarter against top teams? It's easy to see (from 82games) that he's normally best or close to best in assists during crunch time.
There are two main things to be gained by backing off of Rondo and daring him to shoot. One, have his defender help towards his passing targets to limit their ability to score after he passes the ball. Two, to be far enough away from him that you prevent him from driving off of the dribble. There's ample evidence that neither one of these things occur. They don't stop him from getting assists and they don't keep him out of the lane.
How about when he cant get the clutch assists your talking about?
That's not really evidence of anything.
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LeBron hasn't missed the playoffs since, I think, his sexond season in the league and I 'm not sure Wade has when he's played 60+ Games.
In 07-08 the Heat won 10 of the 51 games Wade played in. I don't think his playing another 10 or so games would have made much of a difference.
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LeBron hasn't missed the playoffs since, I think, his sexond season in the league and I 'm not sure Wade has when he's played 60+ Games.
In 07-08 the Heat won 10 of the 51 games Wade played in. I don't think his playing another 10 or so games would have made much of a difference.
SO Wade in his prime can miss the playoffs because the rest of his team is not good enough, but Rondo coming off an injure is going to turn a team no good enough into a playoff team?
Is it a bad thing that a good player can not carry a team to the playoffs when the rest of the team is not good enough?
There is only one Lebron.
Kobe had a season when he failed to take the Lakers to the playoffs.
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He'll make them better when he comes back, no doubt. My question, though, is by how much.
I wanna see just exactly how healthy and confident in his body he is when he returns. I wanna see how this team operates in the half court offense with him running the show. I wanna see how much run & gun we attempt and how effective it is.
No doubt, having him back will be a welcome sight. I just don't know how much of an impact from a wins-standpoint his return will spell out.
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It would be really helpful for me (and the rest of the peanut gallery) if we could have some video or even some box scores of when these kind of situations occur.
It's never that he actually fails, per se, just that he could under certain imagined scenarios. Like taking a great shooter (Ray) out of the lineup affected his game to the point that he went on the 2nd longest double-digit assist streak in nba history.
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It would be really helpful for me (and the rest of the peanut gallery) if we could have some video or even some box scores of when these kind of situations occur.
It's never that he actually fails, per se, just that he could under certain imagined scenarios. Like taking a great shooter (Ray) out of the lineup affected his game to the point that he went on the 2nd longest double-digit assist streak in nba history.
He had actual scoring threats then and he has the skills to do that.
He will still have those same skills, but not the horses around him to really take advantage of it.
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I don't know if this team will "make Rondo better" (whatever that means).
But I think last night's loss to the Bobcats is pretty compelling evidence that he could definitely make this team better.
Nothing encapsulates what is wrong with our offense right now more than the fact that Green scored 19 points ... on just 13 shots.
Instead of Crawford, Bradley and our other guards trying to be all "AI" and looking for their own shot, we need the offense to be feeding Green more. Green should be taking at least 16 shots per game. Preferably 18 or 20 in a game like last night.
THIS, imho, is what Rondo can bring that we are missing. The ability to feed the most efficient scorers in our offense. Rondo has the vision to recognize quickly when we have a mismatch and will work to get the ball to that mismatch.
Rondo also will give better guidance on the floor on getting the team to execute plays to _create_ those mismatches. Yes, this will require 'pounding the ball' while getting the offense organized, but it is a fundamental that you can't win in the NBA playing street ball forever. Fast break is great, but you have to execute in the half court.
Right now, we have no leadership in the half court game. We've done decent in executing out of time-outs. But otherwise, in the flow of the game, if we aren't getting way out in front of the defense, our offense is dying because none of our points knows how to really run a half court game.
There is currently too much dribble up & drive with no organized-creation. We need to be running more actual plays to actually create mismatches and free up shots for our better scoring weapons.
And I know it has been great to have 'everybody involved', but the fact is, some of our guys are much more efficient scorers than others. Green, in particular, should be getting the lion's share of USG on this team. Yet Green is only getting 13.3 shots per 36 and his USG% is 4th on the team at just 22%. Gerald Wallace needs to also be taking more shots. Wallace is dead last on the team in USG% at just 11.8%.
Both Green AND Wallace are scoring extremely efficiently (both in eFG% and in points-per-shot) but are _combining_ for only 18.3 shots per 36. That's simply not going to result in enough production from two of our best weapons, logging over 60 minutes of playing time combined, and from the SF spot in particular.
The other guys need to get them the [dang] ball.
It is my opinion, that Rondo would help tremendously in this aspect of the game.
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It would be really helpful for me (and the rest of the peanut gallery) if we could have some video or even some box scores of when these kind of situations occur.
It's never that he actually fails, per se, just that he could under certain imagined scenarios. Like taking a great shooter (Ray) out of the lineup affected his game to the point that he went on the 2nd longest double-digit assist streak in nba history.
He had actual scoring threats then and he has the skills to do that.
He will still have those same skills, but not the horses around him to really take advantage of it.
He's one of the best transition players in the league but he hasn't had players that could run with him for quite some time. He's great at passing to players who can finish off a lob or score in some traffic (like Wilcox, Shaq or a younger KG) but he hasn't had players like that for quite some time. He should just take advantage of those skills now, or maybe score somewhat more aggressively during the season (like he does in the playoffs).
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It would be really helpful for me (and the rest of the peanut gallery) if we could have some video or even some box scores of when these kind of situations occur.
It's never that he actually fails, per se, just that he could under certain imagined scenarios. Like taking a great shooter (Ray) out of the lineup affected his game to the point that he went on the 2nd longest double-digit assist streak in nba history.
He had actual scoring threats then and he has the skills to do that.
He will still have those same skills, but not the horses around him to really take advantage of it.
He's one of the best transition players in the league but he hasn't had players that could run with him for quite some time. He's great at passing to players who can finish off a lob or score in some traffic (like Wilcox, Shaq or a younger KG) but he hasn't had players like that for quite some time. He should just take advantage of those skills now, or maybe score somewhat more aggressively during the season (like he does in the playoffs).
He could, if there were players that drew defenders from the paint.
And honestly, that one play doesn't win games.
And Rondo is much better then "lob thrower". He just needs the space and scorers around him.
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There are many fans that believe Rondo is so good that he will lob the ball to mediocre players who will then slam down dunks all night. I am not one of those who buy this. I think Rondo is going to have a much tougher time on a weaker team. His MO is actually to dribble around a lot because once he is off the ball, his man sags and Rondo just stands in the corner on near the basketball.
I don't think Rondo is going to play all that much better than what Crawford played though the 4 wins (I don't think Crawford will keep that up either). Rondo will be an upgrade, no doubt and will allow either Crawford or Bradley to come off the bench, improving our depth considerably (meaning Rondo's minutes replace Pressey minutes). I just really don't see Rondo carrying the team to another level.
I agree with some of the pts made. Though rondo unlike jcraw has the ability to drive past his defender at will and either score a layup or make the pass. IF teams are smart and watch videos they will just lay off rondo and dare him to shoot. And if that doesnt fall we are in trouble(assuming everyone else is guarded tightly) plus we dont have a pp or ray allen.
We will be a better team now when rondo comesback but he prob cant us to another level. If this means we should trade him or get more help soon im just as clueless as the next fan
Backing off Rondo and daring him to shoot doesn't really work. Part of that is his improved mid range jump shot, but more important is the fact that even when guys go under picks or back off him when he has the ball in his hands, he still gets in the lane, he still finds open guys, and he still makes plays. You can even make the argument that when the defender plays Rondo by giving him a lot of space, it just makes it easier for him to pick the defense apart.
The notion that all you have to do is play off Rondo and you render him ineffective is pure mythology.
Its not a myth. Why do you think rondo is so ineffective in scoring in 4th quarter against top teams?
They lay off and dare him to beat them with his jump shot. I dont remember the last time rondo crushed a team with his jumpers late in the game.
Where's your evidence that Rondo is so ineffective in the 4th quarter against top teams? It's easy to see (from 82games) that he's normally best or close to best in assists during crunch time.
There are two main things to be gained by backing off of Rondo and daring him to shoot. One, have his defender help towards his passing targets to limit their ability to score after he passes the ball. Two, to be far enough away from him that you prevent him from driving off of the dribble. There's ample evidence that neither one of these things occur. They don't stop him from getting assists and they don't keep him out of the lane.
How about when he cant get the clutch assists your talking about?
That's not really evidence of anything.
Your dancing around the question.
If he cant get the clutch assists, how is be effective on the floor? If top teams layoff off of him, congest the paint, dare him to shoot the 18 ft jumpers, has he made them?
You know where iam going with this.
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There are many fans that believe Rondo is so good that he will lob the ball to mediocre players who will then slam down dunks all night. I am not one of those who buy this. I think Rondo is going to have a much tougher time on a weaker team. His MO is actually to dribble around a lot because once he is off the ball, his man sags and Rondo just stands in the corner on near the basketball.
I don't think Rondo is going to play all that much better than what Crawford played though the 4 wins (I don't think Crawford will keep that up either). Rondo will be an upgrade, no doubt and will allow either Crawford or Bradley to come off the bench, improving our depth considerably (meaning Rondo's minutes replace Pressey minutes). I just really don't see Rondo carrying the team to another level.
I agree with some of the pts made. Though rondo unlike jcraw has the ability to drive past his defender at will and either score a layup or make the pass. IF teams are smart and watch videos they will just lay off rondo and dare him to shoot. And if that doesnt fall we are in trouble(assuming everyone else is guarded tightly) plus we dont have a pp or ray allen.
We will be a better team now when rondo comesback but he prob cant us to another level. If this means we should trade him or get more help soon im just as clueless as the next fan
Backing off Rondo and daring him to shoot doesn't really work. Part of that is his improved mid range jump shot, but more important is the fact that even when guys go under picks or back off him when he has the ball in his hands, he still gets in the lane, he still finds open guys, and he still makes plays. You can even make the argument that when the defender plays Rondo by giving him a lot of space, it just makes it easier for him to pick the defense apart.
The notion that all you have to do is play off Rondo and you render him ineffective is pure mythology.
Its not a myth. Why do you think rondo is so ineffective in scoring in 4th quarter against top teams?
They lay off and dare him to beat them with his jump shot. I dont remember the last time rondo crushed a team with his jumpers late in the game.
Where's your evidence that Rondo is so ineffective in the 4th quarter against top teams? It's easy to see (from 82games) that he's normally best or close to best in assists during crunch time.
There are two main things to be gained by backing off of Rondo and daring him to shoot. One, have his defender help towards his passing targets to limit their ability to score after he passes the ball. Two, to be far enough away from him that you prevent him from driving off of the dribble. There's ample evidence that neither one of these things occur. They don't stop him from getting assists and they don't keep him out of the lane.
How about when he cant get the clutch assists your talking about?
That's not really evidence of anything.
Your dancing around the question.
If he cant get the clutch assists, how is be effective on the floor? If top teams layoff off of him, congest the paint, dare him to shoot the 18 ft jumpers, has he made them?
You know where iam going with this.
This sounds like weird hypotheticals.
My kid sees something exciting on cartoons and asks me, "Dad, what would it be like if people could fly?" And I answer, "Well son, then people would be flying."
You are asking about a hypothetical situation that hasn't arisen yet. So far, in the past, when teams have laid off of Rondo, or tried to go under screens, it hasn't worked for various reasons (he's still made the passes, he's still driven around them and he's on occasion just shot and made the mid-range jumper).
Yes, that was with Pierce, Garnett, etc., around him.
We don't know if Rondo will still be able to get 'assists' in those situations with this team because we don't know if his new surrounding cast will complete the shots at the same rates.
We can predict based on shooting percentages that they'll likely make some of them. But whether they will make them at the same rate, lower or more -- impossible to know.
This cast will probably not nail long-range 2s at the rate that KG did. Or 3PTers-off-kickouts like Pierce & Allen. But it also has more active cutters like Green, Bradley & Lee. And it has more guys who post-up down low like Sully & Olynyk.
Green certainly has shown himself capable of making those 'clutch shots'.
So they will likely do better on some shots and worse on others.
No way to know how the overall assist rates will turn out.
But not knowing is not evidence that it will be worse.
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There are many fans that believe Rondo is so good that he will lob the ball to mediocre players who will then slam down dunks all night. I am not one of those who buy this. I think Rondo is going to have a much tougher time on a weaker team. His MO is actually to dribble around a lot because once he is off the ball, his man sags and Rondo just stands in the corner on near the basketball.
I don't think Rondo is going to play all that much better than what Crawford played though the 4 wins (I don't think Crawford will keep that up either). Rondo will be an upgrade, no doubt and will allow either Crawford or Bradley to come off the bench, improving our depth considerably (meaning Rondo's minutes replace Pressey minutes). I just really don't see Rondo carrying the team to another level.
I agree with some of the pts made. Though rondo unlike jcraw has the ability to drive past his defender at will and either score a layup or make the pass. IF teams are smart and watch videos they will just lay off rondo and dare him to shoot. And if that doesnt fall we are in trouble(assuming everyone else is guarded tightly) plus we dont have a pp or ray allen.
We will be a better team now when rondo comesback but he prob cant us to another level. If this means we should trade him or get more help soon im just as clueless as the next fan
Backing off Rondo and daring him to shoot doesn't really work. Part of that is his improved mid range jump shot, but more important is the fact that even when guys go under picks or back off him when he has the ball in his hands, he still gets in the lane, he still finds open guys, and he still makes plays. You can even make the argument that when the defender plays Rondo by giving him a lot of space, it just makes it easier for him to pick the defense apart.
The notion that all you have to do is play off Rondo and you render him ineffective is pure mythology.
Its not a myth. Why do you think rondo is so ineffective in scoring in 4th quarter against top teams?
They lay off and dare him to beat them with his jump shot. I dont remember the last time rondo crushed a team with his jumpers late in the game.
Where's your evidence that Rondo is so ineffective in the 4th quarter against top teams? It's easy to see (from 82games) that he's normally best or close to best in assists during crunch time.
There are two main things to be gained by backing off of Rondo and daring him to shoot. One, have his defender help towards his passing targets to limit their ability to score after he passes the ball. Two, to be far enough away from him that you prevent him from driving off of the dribble. There's ample evidence that neither one of these things occur. They don't stop him from getting assists and they don't keep him out of the lane.
How about when he cant get the clutch assists your talking about?
That's not really evidence of anything.
Your dancing around the question.
If he cant get the clutch assists, how is be effective on the floor? If top teams layoff off of him, congest the paint, dare him to shoot the 18 ft jumpers, has he made them?
You know where iam going with this.
Where you should be going with this is "why haven't teams thought of this before?". Teams dare him to shoot 18 footers all the time. That doesn't stop him from passing the ball or getting into the lane. And what's with all the "top teams" nonsense? If there's any player in the league that's known for excelling against top teams it's Rondo.
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There are many fans that believe Rondo is so good that he will lob the ball to mediocre players who will then slam down dunks all night. I am not one of those who buy this. I think Rondo is going to have a much tougher time on a weaker team. His MO is actually to dribble around a lot because once he is off the ball, his man sags and Rondo just stands in the corner on near the basketball.
I don't think Rondo is going to play all that much better than what Crawford played though the 4 wins (I don't think Crawford will keep that up either). Rondo will be an upgrade, no doubt and will allow either Crawford or Bradley to come off the bench, improving our depth considerably (meaning Rondo's minutes replace Pressey minutes). I just really don't see Rondo carrying the team to another level.
I agree with some of the pts made. Though rondo unlike jcraw has the ability to drive past his defender at will and either score a layup or make the pass. IF teams are smart and watch videos they will just lay off rondo and dare him to shoot. And if that doesnt fall we are in trouble(assuming everyone else is guarded tightly) plus we dont have a pp or ray allen.
We will be a better team now when rondo comesback but he prob cant us to another level. If this means we should trade him or get more help soon im just as clueless as the next fan
Backing off Rondo and daring him to shoot doesn't really work. Part of that is his improved mid range jump shot, but more important is the fact that even when guys go under picks or back off him when he has the ball in his hands, he still gets in the lane, he still finds open guys, and he still makes plays. You can even make the argument that when the defender plays Rondo by giving him a lot of space, it just makes it easier for him to pick the defense apart.
The notion that all you have to do is play off Rondo and you render him ineffective is pure mythology.
Its not a myth. Why do you think rondo is so ineffective in scoring in 4th quarter against top teams?
They lay off and dare him to beat them with his jump shot. I dont remember the last time rondo crushed a team with his jumpers late in the game.
Where's your evidence that Rondo is so ineffective in the 4th quarter against top teams? It's easy to see (from 82games) that he's normally best or close to best in assists during crunch time.
There are two main things to be gained by backing off of Rondo and daring him to shoot. One, have his defender help towards his passing targets to limit their ability to score after he passes the ball. Two, to be far enough away from him that you prevent him from driving off of the dribble. There's ample evidence that neither one of these things occur. They don't stop him from getting assists and they don't keep him out of the lane.
How about when he cant get the clutch assists your talking about?
That's not really evidence of anything.
Your dancing around the question.
If he cant get the clutch assists, how is be effective on the floor? If top teams layoff off of him, congest the paint, dare him to shoot the 18 ft jumpers, has he made them?
You know where iam going with this.
This sounds like weird hypotheticals.
My kid sees something exciting on cartoons and asks me, "Dad, what would it be like if people could fly?" And I answer, "Well son, then people would be flying."
You are asking about a hypothetical situation that hasn't arisen yet. So far, in the past, when teams have laid off of Rondo, or tried to go under screens, it hasn't worked for various reasons (he's still made the passes, he's still driven around them and he's on occasion just shot and made the mid-range jumper).
Yes, that was with Pierce, Garnett, etc., around him.
We don't know if Rondo will still be able to get 'assists' in those situations with this team because we don't know if his new surrounding cast will complete the shots at the same rates.
We can predict based on shooting percentages that they'll likely make some of them. But whether they will make them at the same rate, lower or more -- impossible to know.
This cast will probably not nail long-range 2s at the rate that KG did. Or 3PTers-off-kickouts like Pierce & Allen. But it also has more active cutters like Green, Bradley & Lee. And it has more guys who post-up down low like Sully & Olynyk.
Green certainly has shown himself capable of making those 'clutch shots'.
So they will likely do better on some shots and worse on others.
No way to know how the overall assist rates will turn out.
But not knowing is not evidence that it will be worse.
You took my question and spun it away from Rondo's responsiblity
So basically its not up to Rondo in that situation. It's up to the guys he's surrounded with. If they miss than its not Rondos fault.
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There are many fans that believe Rondo is so good that he will lob the ball to mediocre players who will then slam down dunks all night. I am not one of those who buy this. I think Rondo is going to have a much tougher time on a weaker team. His MO is actually to dribble around a lot because once he is off the ball, his man sags and Rondo just stands in the corner on near the basketball.
I don't think Rondo is going to play all that much better than what Crawford played though the 4 wins (I don't think Crawford will keep that up either). Rondo will be an upgrade, no doubt and will allow either Crawford or Bradley to come off the bench, improving our depth considerably (meaning Rondo's minutes replace Pressey minutes). I just really don't see Rondo carrying the team to another level.
I agree with some of the pts made. Though rondo unlike jcraw has the ability to drive past his defender at will and either score a layup or make the pass. IF teams are smart and watch videos they will just lay off rondo and dare him to shoot. And if that doesnt fall we are in trouble(assuming everyone else is guarded tightly) plus we dont have a pp or ray allen.
We will be a better team now when rondo comesback but he prob cant us to another level. If this means we should trade him or get more help soon im just as clueless as the next fan
Backing off Rondo and daring him to shoot doesn't really work. Part of that is his improved mid range jump shot, but more important is the fact that even when guys go under picks or back off him when he has the ball in his hands, he still gets in the lane, he still finds open guys, and he still makes plays. You can even make the argument that when the defender plays Rondo by giving him a lot of space, it just makes it easier for him to pick the defense apart.
The notion that all you have to do is play off Rondo and you render him ineffective is pure mythology.
Its not a myth. Why do you think rondo is so ineffective in scoring in 4th quarter against top teams?
They lay off and dare him to beat them with his jump shot. I dont remember the last time rondo crushed a team with his jumpers late in the game.
Where's your evidence that Rondo is so ineffective in the 4th quarter against top teams? It's easy to see (from 82games) that he's normally best or close to best in assists during crunch time.
There are two main things to be gained by backing off of Rondo and daring him to shoot. One, have his defender help towards his passing targets to limit their ability to score after he passes the ball. Two, to be far enough away from him that you prevent him from driving off of the dribble. There's ample evidence that neither one of these things occur. They don't stop him from getting assists and they don't keep him out of the lane.
How about when he cant get the clutch assists your talking about?
That's not really evidence of anything.
Your dancing around the question.
If he cant get the clutch assists, how is be effective on the floor? If top teams layoff off of him, congest the paint, dare him to shoot the 18 ft jumpers, has he made them?
You know where iam going with this.
This sounds like weird hypotheticals.
My kid sees something exciting on cartoons and asks me, "Dad, what would it be like if people could fly?" And I answer, "Well son, then people would be flying."
You are asking about a hypothetical situation that hasn't arisen yet. So far, in the past, when teams have laid off of Rondo, or tried to go under screens, it hasn't worked for various reasons (he's still made the passes, he's still driven around them and he's on occasion just shot and made the mid-range jumper).
Yes, that was with Pierce, Garnett, etc., around him.
We don't know if Rondo will still be able to get 'assists' in those situations with this team because we don't know if his new surrounding cast will complete the shots at the same rates.
We can predict based on shooting percentages that they'll likely make some of them. But whether they will make them at the same rate, lower or more -- impossible to know.
This cast will probably not nail long-range 2s at the rate that KG did. Or 3PTers-off-kickouts like Pierce & Allen. But it also has more active cutters like Green, Bradley & Lee. And it has more guys who post-up down low like Sully & Olynyk.
Green certainly has shown himself capable of making those 'clutch shots'.
So they will likely do better on some shots and worse on others.
No way to know how the overall assist rates will turn out.
But not knowing is not evidence that it will be worse.
You took my question and spun it away from Rondo's responsiblity
So basically its not up to Rondo in that situation. It's up to the guys he's surrounded with. If they miss than its not Rondos fault.
So ... If they miss ... is it Rondo's fault?
Your logic is subtle, nuanced, ephemeral. It escapes me.
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There are many fans that believe Rondo is so good that he will lob the ball to mediocre players who will then slam down dunks all night. I am not one of those who buy this. I think Rondo is going to have a much tougher time on a weaker team. His MO is actually to dribble around a lot because once he is off the ball, his man sags and Rondo just stands in the corner on near the basketball.
I don't think Rondo is going to play all that much better than what Crawford played though the 4 wins (I don't think Crawford will keep that up either). Rondo will be an upgrade, no doubt and will allow either Crawford or Bradley to come off the bench, improving our depth considerably (meaning Rondo's minutes replace Pressey minutes). I just really don't see Rondo carrying the team to another level.
I agree with some of the pts made. Though rondo unlike jcraw has the ability to drive past his defender at will and either score a layup or make the pass. IF teams are smart and watch videos they will just lay off rondo and dare him to shoot. And if that doesnt fall we are in trouble(assuming everyone else is guarded tightly) plus we dont have a pp or ray allen.
Are you saying that you don't think other teams watch videos of Rondo, and somehow aren't familiar with his game? Or are you claiming that teams don't lay off of Rondo and dare him to shoot?
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Like BBallT said
Rondo is solid
best believe teams figured
how to shut him down
but it will take more than
(http://brotherpreacher.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/kryptonite.jpg)
to stop him