CelticsStrong
Other Discussions => Games / Gambling / Fantasy Sports => Off Topic => CelticsStrong Draft => Topic started by: nickagneta on September 10, 2013, 08:11:35 PM
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Cleveland Cavaliers vs Atlanta Hawks
Cleveland
Guards: Ty Lawson, Tony Allen, Jamal Crawford, Steve Blake, Terrence Ross
Forwards: Al Horford, Carl Landry, Gerald Wallace, Caron Butler, Lamar Odom
Centers: Kevin Garnett, Timofey Mozgov, Bernard James
Lionel Hollins
Presser: http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=67439.msg1545562#msg1545562
Atlanta
Guards: Dwyane Wade, Jameer Nelson, Jeremy Lin, Gerald Henderson, Randy Foye
Forwards: Paul Pierce, Carlos Boozer, John Henson, Nick Young, DeJuan Blair, Mirza Teletovic
Centers: Nene Hilario, Alex Len
Coach: Kevin Stallings
Presser: http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=67441.msg1547026#msg1547026
Polls open at 12 noon EST Sept. 11th. Close 11:59:59PM Sept. 11th. Here are the voting guidelines for this round:
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=67476.msg1549103#msg1549103
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Thread open
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At first glance, I reckon I'll be going with Cleveland due to their superior depth and coaching.
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Cleveland is super tough imo
and TA on Wade is a solid matchup
this is a toughie
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If I vote Knicks will it count cause they're better than both these teams.
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Unless KG and Lawson are partying with Odom before the games, I like this one for Cleveland. The team defense should be able to disrupt Atlanta enough to win.
Cleveland in 6 (because we all know Pierce will go off in at least one game)
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I had Atlanta as the top regular season team, so convince me they won't win. Leaning that way, but HC could be enough to tilt the scale I suppose.
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I had Atlanta as the top regular season team, so convince me they won't win. Leaning that way, but HC could be enough to tilt the scale I suppose.
For whatever it's worth, Cleveland is a much stronger team in the playoffs than in the regular season. That team defense should be amazing.
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Going Cleveland. They were built for playoff success and match up especially well vs this Atlanta team. Atlanta doesn't have the defense to contain a KG, Horford, Landry front line and KG and Horford should be able to clamp down hard on Nene and Boozer. Wallace will harass Pierce and Allen will do the same with Wade. Pierce and Wade will get those but probably very inefficiently. Lawson has a great advantage over the Thunder PGs.
Just another series that I see going 5 games unless some very influential points come out telling me differently
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Well, Cleveland is a very tough matchup. These two teams match up very well. Unfortunately for the Cavs, their structural weakness (the wing - and weakness is a relative term here because this is a very strong team overall) is where Atlanta is the best. Wade/Pierce/Henderson will have the opportunity to run up a big advantage against Allen/Crawford/Wallace/Butler. Ultimately, I think that's the difference in this one.
KG/Horford is a very imposing front line, but the Hawks are strong and athletic enough to wear them down over time - enough to make that matchup a close decision. Lawson/Nelson will match up two of the premiere tiny point guards in the league, and adding Lin to that mix gives the Hawks more firepower at the 1. It'll be a war, no doubt, but I like Atlanta's chances in this one.
Plus, old man strength. Old man strength and Finals MVPs, guys.
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Not sure how Atl made it this far to begin with, but Cle is an especially difficult matchup for them. I think Atl's miracle run might be over.
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Agree with what Roy and Nick have been saying in Cleveland's defense. The stakes are higher and a KG-led team will respond. The man-to-man and help defense will be stellar all around, and Atlanta will find baskets incredibly hard to come by.
While I agree with Champ that our wings are likely our weak spot, it's certainly not due to a lack of defense at those spots. Wallace and Allen may not be the best scorers, but they're two guys who can defend Wade and Pierce as well as anyone. We will carefully balance the minutes in this series so that Wade and Pierce can never get too comfortable, but also so that we get enough offense from Crawford and Butler.
Some of our earlier matchups in these playoffs have also had incredibly tough front lines to put up against Horford and Garnett. In the first round, we saw Millsap/Asik/Amar'e, and in the second round we saw Lopez/ZBo/Sanders. Nene/Boozer, while still a good 4-5 combo, is easily the weakest of these three platoons. Horford and Garnett should be at their best on both ends of the floor, and that will be a difference maker here.
One last thing: I don't like to nitpick, but I don't think you can name Jameer Nelson as a premeire PG. He was once an all-star, yes, but that was when his efficiency was through the roof, shooting over .500 from the floor and .450 from three (and 88% from the FT line). Over the last few seasons, those numbers have steadily declined, and last season he shot below .400 from the floor. Ty Lawson is clearly the better PG in this matchup, and he's obviously better than Lin too.
It's a fight between "Old Man Strength" and the KG Way. I think KG's team will pull this one out fairly easily.
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Agree with what Roy and Nick have been saying in Cleveland's defense. The stakes are higher and a KG-led team will respond. The man-to-man and help defense will be stellar all around, and Atlanta will find baskets incredibly hard to come by.
While I agree with Champ that our wings are likely our weak spot, it's certainly not due to a lack of defense at those spots. Wallace and Allen may not be the best scorers, but they're two guys who can defend Wade and Pierce as well as anyone. We will carefully balance the minutes in this series so that Wade and Pierce can never get too comfortable, but also so that we get enough offense from Crawford and Butler.
Some of our earlier matchups in these playoffs have also had incredibly tough front lines to put up against Horford and Garnett. In the first round, we saw Millsap/Asik/Amar'e, and in the second round we saw Lopez/ZBo/Sanders. Nene/Boozer, while still a good 4-5 combo, is easily the weakest of these three platoons. Horford and Garnett should be at their best on both ends of the floor, and that will be a difference maker here.
One last thing: I don't like to nitpick, but I don't think you can name Jameer Nelson as a premeire PG. He was once an all-star, yes, but that was when his efficiency was through the roof, shooting over .500 from the floor and .450 from three (and 88% from the FT line). Over the last few seasons, those numbers have steadily declined, and last season he shot below .400 from the floor. Ty Lawson is clearly the better PG in this matchup, and he's obviously better than Lin too.
It's a fight between "Old Man Strength" and the KG Way. I think KG's team will pull this one out fairly easily.
Not premiere PG. Premiere *tiny* PG. Lawson and Nelson are two of the best distributors for guys who would need to sit on phone books in order to drive the team bus.
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Not premiere PG. Premiere *tiny* PG. Lawson and Nelson are two of the best distributors for guys who would need to sit on phone books in order to drive the team bus.
Well, there's still quite a distinction to be made there. Lawson - now slowly making his way out of underratedness - has been ranked in the top 10 PGs in the league. Nelson's a bottom-10 starting PG in this league.
They are both tiny, but that doesn't mean they're comparable.
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I guess for me I see Cleveland having a harder time guarding Pierce/Wade then Atlanta will Horford/KG. I don't see how Nene/Boozer won't be able to handle Cleveland's front court at least reasonably well. While Butler/Wallace/TA is going to struggle.
Advantage Atlanta.
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Not premiere PG. Premiere *tiny* PG. Lawson and Nelson are two of the best distributors for guys who would need to sit on phone books in order to drive the team bus.
Well, there's still quite a distinction to be made there. Lawson - now slowly making his way out of underratedness - has been ranked in the top 10 PGs in the league. Nelson's a bottom-10 starting PG in this league.
They are both tiny, but that doesn't mean they're comparable.
Sure they are. They actually match up quite well! Here's their head-to-head in the latest season. Keep in mind that Nelson was basically playing with scrubs while Lawson piloted a playoff team:
Jameer when Ty was on the court (62 minutes total, stats are split into per-36 stats):
15.7 ppg, 44% FG, 29% from 3, 2.9 rpg, 7.5 apg
Ty when Jameer was on the court (62 minutes total, stats are split into per-36 stats):
16.3 ppg, 40% FG, 33% from 3, 2.9 rpg, 8.1 apg
So, when Lawson faced Jameer, he scored less, shot worse, but had more assists than his seasonal averages. When Jameer faced Lawson, he scored more, shot better, and had fewer assists than his season average. Again, that's 2012-2013.
You can say that's a small sample size (it is), but you can't say they aren't comparable.
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Just a hunch here, but whatever edge Lawson has over Nelson/Lin could very likely be mitigated by Gerald Henderson. I think he could defend Lawson pretty well, and due to Pierce/Wade being able to run the offense themselves, not cost Atl on that side of the ball.
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Not premiere PG. Premiere *tiny* PG. Lawson and Nelson are two of the best distributors for guys who would need to sit on phone books in order to drive the team bus.
Well, there's still quite a distinction to be made there. Lawson - now slowly making his way out of underratedness - has been ranked in the top 10 PGs in the league. Nelson's a bottom-10 starting PG in this league.
They are both tiny, but that doesn't mean they're comparable.
Sure they are. They actually match up quite well! Here's their head-to-head in the latest season. Keep in mind that Nelson was basically playing with scrubs while Lawson piloted a playoff team:
Jameer when Ty was on the court (62 minutes total, stats are split into per-36 stats):
15.7 ppg, 44% FG, 29% from 3, 2.9 rpg, 7.5 apg
Ty when Jameer was on the court (62 minutes total, stats are split into per-36 stats):
16.3 ppg, 40% FG, 33% from 3, 2.9 rpg, 8.1 apg
So, when Lawson faced Jameer, he scored less, shot worse, but had more assists than his seasonal averages. When Jameer faced Lawson, he scored more, shot better, and had fewer assists than his season average. Again, that's 2012-2013.
You can say that's a small sample size (it is), but you can't say they aren't comparable.
I dont understand when Lawson become such an All Star in the eyes on the board. He really isnt all that good at commanding a squad, especially in the playoffs.
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as of now, leaning towards the cavs. I like their core and experience
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I think he could defend Lawson pretty well, and due to Pierce/Wade being able to run the offense themselves, not cost Atl on that side of the ball.
I love pierce to death, but we saw him average over 5 turnovers in the playoffs last season when he was forced to run the offense in rondo's absence.
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Yes, but I did say Pierce AND Wade. I just don't see how Cleveland can legitimately contain those two, as a pairing.
Ultimately, I just see Atlanta's superior guards/wings being able to swing the series in their favor. It's close though, probably 7 games, with a few quite possibly going to OT.
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Just a hunch here, but whatever edge Lawson has over Nelson/Lin could very likely be mitigated by Gerald Henderson. I think he could defend Lawson pretty well, and due to Pierce/Wade being able to run the offense themselves, not cost Atl on that side of the ball.
Can Gerald Henderson defend point guards?
Can G.Henderson defend PGs as quick as Ty Lawson? With Ty Lawson's combination of explosive first step, overall speed, jump-shooting and dribble drive skills?
I think G.Henderson is probably quick enough and athletic enough to defend many PGs but I am struggling to think of any times I have seen him used defensively like that + Ty Lawson is a pretty extreme guy to defend with his speed and quickness.
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i had to vote a little early. i went with CLE
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Not premiere PG. Premiere *tiny* PG. Lawson and Nelson are two of the best distributors for guys who would need to sit on phone books in order to drive the team bus.
Well, there's still quite a distinction to be made there. Lawson - now slowly making his way out of underratedness - has been ranked in the top 10 PGs in the league. Nelson's a bottom-10 starting PG in this league.
They are both tiny, but that doesn't mean they're comparable.
Sure they are. They actually match up quite well! Here's their head-to-head in the latest season. Keep in mind that Nelson was basically playing with scrubs while Lawson piloted a playoff team:
Jameer when Ty was on the court (62 minutes total, stats are split into per-36 stats):
15.7 ppg, 44% FG, 29% from 3, 2.9 rpg, 7.5 apg
Ty when Jameer was on the court (62 minutes total, stats are split into per-36 stats):
16.3 ppg, 40% FG, 33% from 3, 2.9 rpg, 8.1 apg
So, when Lawson faced Jameer, he scored less, shot worse, but had more assists than his seasonal averages. When Jameer faced Lawson, he scored more, shot better, and had fewer assists than his season average. Again, that's 2012-2013.
You can say that's a small sample size (it is), but you can't say they aren't comparable.
I dont understand when Lawson become such an All Star in the eyes on the board. He really isnt all that good at commanding a squad, especially in the playoffs.
So averaging 22 points and 8 assists isn't a good playoff performance?
If Ty Lawson was on the Celtics, the perception of him would be much different from some people.
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Not premiere PG. Premiere *tiny* PG. Lawson and Nelson are two of the best distributors for guys who would need to sit on phone books in order to drive the team bus.
Well, there's still quite a distinction to be made there. Lawson - now slowly making his way out of underratedness - has been ranked in the top 10 PGs in the league. Nelson's a bottom-10 starting PG in this league.
They are both tiny, but that doesn't mean they're comparable.
Sure they are. They actually match up quite well! Here's their head-to-head in the latest season. Keep in mind that Nelson was basically playing with scrubs while Lawson piloted a playoff team:
Jameer when Ty was on the court (62 minutes total, stats are split into per-36 stats):
15.7 ppg, 44% FG, 29% from 3, 2.9 rpg, 7.5 apg
Ty when Jameer was on the court (62 minutes total, stats are split into per-36 stats):
16.3 ppg, 40% FG, 33% from 3, 2.9 rpg, 8.1 apg
So, when Lawson faced Jameer, he scored less, shot worse, but had more assists than his seasonal averages. When Jameer faced Lawson, he scored more, shot better, and had fewer assists than his season average. Again, that's 2012-2013.
You can say that's a small sample size (it is), but you can't say they aren't comparable.
I dont understand when Lawson become such an All Star in the eyes on the board. He really isnt all that good at commanding a squad, especially in the playoffs.
So averaging 22 points and 8 assists isn't a good playoff performance?
If Ty Lawson was on the Celtics, the perception of him would be much different from some people.
Yeah but if Ted Bundy was on the Celtics the perception of him would be much different from some people.
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Yeah but if Ted Bundy was on the Celtics the perception of him would be much different from some people.
You mean this guy?
(http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/232/6/7/al_bundy__4_touchdowns_by_iappeartobespy-d478lye.jpg)
Yup...God-like
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Not premiere PG. Premiere *tiny* PG. Lawson and Nelson are two of the best distributors for guys who would need to sit on phone books in order to drive the team bus.
Well, there's still quite a distinction to be made there. Lawson - now slowly making his way out of underratedness - has been ranked in the top 10 PGs in the league. Nelson's a bottom-10 starting PG in this league.
They are both tiny, but that doesn't mean they're comparable.
Sure they are. They actually match up quite well! Here's their head-to-head in the latest season. Keep in mind that Nelson was basically playing with scrubs while Lawson piloted a playoff team:
Jameer when Ty was on the court (62 minutes total, stats are split into per-36 stats):
15.7 ppg, 44% FG, 29% from 3, 2.9 rpg, 7.5 apg
Ty when Jameer was on the court (62 minutes total, stats are split into per-36 stats):
16.3 ppg, 40% FG, 33% from 3, 2.9 rpg, 8.1 apg
So, when Lawson faced Jameer, he scored less, shot worse, but had more assists than his seasonal averages. When Jameer faced Lawson, he scored more, shot better, and had fewer assists than his season average. Again, that's 2012-2013.
You can say that's a small sample size (it is), but you can't say they aren't comparable.
I dont understand when Lawson become such an All Star in the eyes on the board. He really isnt all that good at commanding a squad, especially in the playoffs.
So averaging 22 points and 8 assists isn't a good playoff performance?
If Ty Lawson was on the Celtics, the perception of him would be much different from some people.
Yeah but if Ted Bundy was on the Celtics the perception of him would be much different from some people.
Lawson averaged 22 and 8 on a team with a first round exit missing their best offensive player in Gallo. The stat sheet might look deceivingly appealing, but no, I dont think he had a good playoff performance based on how he didnt step up to lead his team.
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Atlanta.
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Voted for Cleveland
Just can't see them losing
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Wow....absolutely nothing happening in these threads today.
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Wow....absolutely nothing happening in these threads today.
Maybe everyone feels guilty about screwing over Dallas, so they lost their will to continue. ;) 8)
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Wow....absolutely nothing happening in these threads today.
Maybe everyone feels guilty about screwing over Dallas, so they lost their will to continue. ;) 8)
Roy speaks the truth
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Wow....absolutely nothing happening in these threads today.
Maybe everyone feels guilty about screwing over Dallas, so they lost their will to continue. ;) 8)
I was going to do a two day vote on the Finals to get as much voting and discussion going. Hope it doesn't just turn into two days of tumbleweeds.
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Wow....absolutely nothing happening in these threads today.
I think it is because pretty much everyone agrees on the outcome.
Cleveland in the East and Minnesota in the West.
I was going to do a two day vote on the Finals to get as much voting and discussion going. Hope it doesn't just turn into two days of tumbleweeds.
I think the Finals will be pretty similar. I think that Finals matchup looks pretty one-sided for Minny over Cleveland. I think that thread could be a quite one too.
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Wow....absolutely nothing happening in these threads today.
I think it is because pretty much everyone agrees on the outcome.
Cleveland in the East and Minnesota in the West.
Even the incoming votes are down as compared to yesterday at this time
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I think the Finals will be pretty similar. I think that Finals matchup looks pretty one-sided for Minny over Cleveland. I think that thread could be a quite one too.
I disagree. I like Cleveland over Minnesota.
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I think the Finals will be pretty similar. I think that Finals matchup looks pretty one-sided for Minny over Cleveland. I think that thread could be a quite one too.
I disagree. I like Cleveland over Minnesota.
I think Cleveland will win IMO
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I think boozer and nene make kg and al work on the defensive end. I give the edge to kg and Al but not nearly as much as I do to wade and pierce.
Like with okc I have to assume guys are healthy for their teams to have it made this far. Wade is the best player bar none and pierce is arguably the second.
Pierce and Wade are just an awesome tandem. Their skill sets mesh perfectly and they're both fourth qtr killers.
Got Atlanta.
Also I believe they're the best team left standing.
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I think the Finals will be pretty similar. I think that Finals matchup looks pretty one-sided for Minny over Cleveland. I think that thread could be a quite one too.
I agree and think that Indiana would have beat the Cavs. (Not trying to spark controversy, but I've found it funny that alot of the great teams have been going out and it seems like teams are trying to eliminate other teams just so they won't have to face them.)
I like ATL over Cavs though, but this one is much closer than if it was Pacers over Cavs.
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I think the Finals will be pretty similar. I think that Finals matchup looks pretty one-sided for Minny over Cleveland. I think that thread could be a quite one too.
teams are trying to eliminate other teams just so they won't have to face them
cough Dallas cough
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I think the Finals will be pretty similar. I think that Finals matchup looks pretty one-sided for Minny over Cleveland. I think that thread could be a quite one too.
I disagree. I like Cleveland over Minnesota.
I think Cleveland will win IMO
Really? That surprises me. That is good news.
I thought it would be one-sided. Good to hear it won't be.
It will create a much better conversation about the two teams and how they matchup. I look forward to reading about why you both like Cleveland over Minny tomorrow. I am not seeing much reason for optimism myself.
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I think the Finals will be pretty similar. I think that Finals matchup looks pretty one-sided for Minny over Cleveland. I think that thread could be a quite one too.
I agree and think that Indiana would have beat the Cavs. (Not trying to spark controversy, but I've found it funny that alot of the great teams have been going out and it seems like teams are trying to eliminate other teams just so they won't have to face them.)
I like ATL over Cavs though, but this one is much closer than if it was Pacers over Cavs.
I voted Indi, and I think Cleveland would have beaten them.
And the finals won't be as one-sided as you both think (if it is CLE-MIN). I've been working on a game-plan for the Timberwolves for a little while now. If people have an open mind going in, you might see why Cleveland could knock them off.
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I think the Finals will be pretty similar. I think that Finals matchup looks pretty one-sided for Minny over Cleveland. I think that thread could be a quite one too.
I agree and think that Indiana would have beat the Cavs. (Not trying to spark controversy, but I've found it funny that alot of the great teams have been going out and it seems like teams are trying to eliminate other teams just so they won't have to face them.)
I like ATL over Cavs though, but this one is much closer than if it was Pacers over Cavs.
I voted Indi, and I think Cleveland would have beaten them.
And the finals won't be as one-sided as you both think. I've been working on a game-plan for the Timberwolves for a little while now. If people have an open mind going in, you might see why Cleveland could knock them off.
Indy would have beaten you guys, Deron would have outplayed Lawson and Butler and Wallace can't stop Durant.
Same thing I was thinking for the Orlando series.
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I think the Finals will be pretty similar. I think that Finals matchup looks pretty one-sided for Minny over Cleveland. I think that thread could be a quite one too.
I agree and think that Indiana would have beat the Cavs. (Not trying to spark controversy, but I've found it funny that alot of the great teams have been going out and it seems like teams are trying to eliminate other teams just so they won't have to face them.)
I like ATL over Cavs though, but this one is much closer than if it was Pacers over Cavs.
I voted Indi, and I think Cleveland would have beaten them.
And the finals won't be as one-sided as you both think. I've been working on a game-plan for the Timberwolves for a little while now. If people have an open mind going in, you might see why Cleveland could knock them off.
Indy would have beaten you guys, Deron would have outplayed Lawson and Butler and Wallace can't stop Durant.
Same thing I was thinking for the Orlando series.
That's your opinion.
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I think the Finals will be pretty similar. I think that Finals matchup looks pretty one-sided for Minny over Cleveland. I think that thread could be a quite one too.
I agree and think that Indiana would have beat the Cavs. (Not trying to spark controversy, but I've found it funny that alot of the great teams have been going out and it seems like teams are trying to eliminate other teams just so they won't have to face them.)
I like ATL over Cavs though, but this one is much closer than if it was Pacers over Cavs.
I voted Indi, and I think Cleveland would have beaten them.
And the finals won't be as one-sided as you both think. I've been working on a game-plan for the Timberwolves for a little while now. If people have an open mind going in, you might see why Cleveland could knock them off.
Indy would have beaten you guys, Deron would have outplayed Lawson and Butler and Wallace can't stop Durant.
Same thing I was thinking for the Orlando series.
That's your opinion.
You'll never change Ron's opinion. He's already indicated that he attacks KG (and Rondo) because he thinks that Pierce doesn't get enough respect.
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I think the Finals will be pretty similar. I think that Finals matchup looks pretty one-sided for Minny over Cleveland. I think that thread could be a quite one too.
I agree and think that Indiana would have beat the Cavs. (Not trying to spark controversy, but I've found it funny that alot of the great teams have been going out and it seems like teams are trying to eliminate other teams just so they won't have to face them.)
I like ATL over Cavs though, but this one is much closer than if it was Pacers over Cavs.
I voted Indi, and I think Cleveland would have beaten them.
And the finals won't be as one-sided as you both think (if it is CLE-MIN). I've been working on a game-plan for the Timberwolves for a little while now. If people have an open mind going in, you might see why Cleveland could knock them off.
I'm interested in seeing what you cook up. Gonna try and go in with an open mind. Good luck if you get there.
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Also I just want to say one thing. We have never voted for the weaker team in a matchup in order to better our chances of getting further in the playoffs. If you check Nick's spreadsheet...
- We voted NY over Boston for the second round, knowing we'd likely face NY. Public opinion had NY as the better team.
- We voted Indi over Atlanta. Public opinion chose Atlanta, but Ron thinks Indi is the better team, and I happen to agree.
- I have voted Minnesota over OKC, knowing full well that LeBron will be extremely difficult to knock off.
Now, I have no idea whether Ron is insinuating that Cleveland is one of those teams to vote for a weaker team, and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he wasn't talking about us.
And I wouldn't bring this up if I hadn't noticed my own voting pattern from Ron: he has voted against Cleveland in every series except for when he got himself stuck with this post...
In another note I definitely see Cleveland beating New York/Boston.
...and then (conveniently?) he didn't vote in that round.
I'm not sure if that's just coincidence or if there's something else at play here. I'll let other folks connect the dots if they want to.
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I think the Finals will be pretty similar. I think that Finals matchup looks pretty one-sided for Minny over Cleveland. I think that thread could be a quite one too.
I agree and think that Indiana would have beat the Cavs. (Not trying to spark controversy, but I've found it funny that alot of the great teams have been going out and it seems like teams are trying to eliminate other teams just so they won't have to face them.)
I like ATL over Cavs though, but this one is much closer than if it was Pacers over Cavs.
I voted Indi, and I think Cleveland would have beaten them.
And the finals won't be as one-sided as you both think. I've been working on a game-plan for the Timberwolves for a little while now. If people have an open mind going in, you might see why Cleveland could knock them off.
Indy would have beaten you guys, Deron would have outplayed Lawson and Butler and Wallace can't stop Durant.
Same thing I was thinking for the Orlando series.
That's your opinion.
You'll never change Ron's opinion. He's already indicated that he attacks KG (and Rondo) because he thinks that Pierce doesn't get enough respect.
No, I just don't overrate KG like people here do.
Also Roy you think Cavs might beat the Wolves, any chance that you just don't want Wolves to win?
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Also I just want to say one thing. We have never voted for the weaker team in a matchup in order to better our chances of getting further in the playoffs. If you check Nick's spreadsheet...
- We voted NY over Boston for the second round, knowing we'd likely face NY. Public opinion had NY as the better team.
- We voted Indi over Atlanta. Public opinion chose Atlanta, but Ron thinks Indi is the better team, and I happen to agree.
- I have voted Minnesota over OKC, knowing full well that LeBron will be extremely difficult to knock off.
Now, I have no idea whether Ron is insinuating that Cleveland is one of those teams to vote for a weaker team, and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he wasn't talking about us.
And I wouldn't bring this up if I hadn't noticed my own voting pattern from Ron: he has voted against Cleveland in every series except for when he got himself stuck with this post...
In another note I definitely see Cleveland beating New York/Boston.
...and then (conveniently?) he didn't vote in that round.
I'm not sure if that's just coincidence or if there's something else at play here. I'll let other folks connect the dots if they want to.
Woah those are fighthing words and if you wanted to bring up a "theory" of yours pm me. I don't understand why you made this personal, like I said before pm me. That was extremely rude.
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I think the Finals will be pretty similar. I think that Finals matchup looks pretty one-sided for Minny over Cleveland. I think that thread could be a quite one too.
I agree and think that Indiana would have beat the Cavs. (Not trying to spark controversy, but I've found it funny that alot of the great teams have been going out and it seems like teams are trying to eliminate other teams just so they won't have to face them.)
I like ATL over Cavs though, but this one is much closer than if it was Pacers over Cavs.
I voted Indi, and I think Cleveland would have beaten them.
And the finals won't be as one-sided as you both think. I've been working on a game-plan for the Timberwolves for a little while now. If people have an open mind going in, you might see why Cleveland could knock them off.
Indy would have beaten you guys, Deron would have outplayed Lawson and Butler and Wallace can't stop Durant.
Same thing I was thinking for the Orlando series.
That's your opinion.
You'll never change Ron's opinion. He's already indicated that he attacks KG (and Rondo) because he thinks that Pierce doesn't get enough respect.
No, I just don't overrate KG like people here do.
Also Roy you think Cavs might beat the Wolves, any chance that you just don't want Wolves to win?
Um, no?
I've announced publicly that I voted for the Twolves to advance.
Perhaps your grasping at conspiracy straws reflects something about your own voting strategy?
I mean, I don't mean this personally, but allow me to be candid: I doubt that it's a secret that you're not my favorite poster, but I announced publicly that you were a "lock" to advance. I was wrong, probably due in part to some GMs being a bit less scrupulous in allowing personal dislike to reflect in their votes.
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Also I just want to say one thing. We have never voted for the weaker team in a matchup in order to better our chances of getting further in the playoffs. If you check Nick's spreadsheet...
- We voted NY over Boston for the second round, knowing we'd likely face NY. Public opinion had NY as the better team.
- We voted Indi over Atlanta. Public opinion chose Atlanta, but Ron thinks Indi is the better team, and I happen to agree.
- I have voted Minnesota over OKC, knowing full well that LeBron will be extremely difficult to knock off.
Now, I have no idea whether Ron is insinuating that Cleveland is one of those teams to vote for a weaker team, and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he wasn't talking about us.
And I wouldn't bring this up if I hadn't noticed my own voting pattern from Ron: he has voted against Cleveland in every series except for when he got himself stuck with this post...
In another note I definitely see Cleveland beating New York/Boston.
...and then (conveniently?) he didn't vote in that round.
I'm not sure if that's just coincidence or if there's something else at play here. I'll let other folks connect the dots if they want to.
Woah those are fighthing words and if you wanted to bring up a "theory" of yours pm me. I don't understand why you made this personal, like I said before pm me. That was extremely rude.
Not fighting words, just a list of facts. Your theory of teams voting for weaker opponents - at least in my case - is just that: a theory.
I don't want this to escalate into an argument, so I'll stop here.
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Also I just want to say one thing. We have never voted for the weaker team in a matchup in order to better our chances of getting further in the playoffs. If you check Nick's spreadsheet...
- We voted NY over Boston for the second round, knowing we'd likely face NY. Public opinion had NY as the better team.
- We voted Indi over Atlanta. Public opinion chose Atlanta, but Ron thinks Indi is the better team, and I happen to agree.
- I have voted Minnesota over OKC, knowing full well that LeBron will be extremely difficult to knock off.
Now, I have no idea whether Ron is insinuating that Cleveland is one of those teams to vote for a weaker team, and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he wasn't talking about us.
And I wouldn't bring this up if I hadn't noticed my own voting pattern from Ron: he has voted against Cleveland in every series except for when he got himself stuck with this post...
In another note I definitely see Cleveland beating New York/Boston.
...and then (conveniently?) he didn't vote in that round.
I'm not sure if that's just coincidence or if there's something else at play here. I'll let other folks connect the dots if they want to.
Woah those are fighthing words and if you wanted to bring up a "theory" of yours pm me. I don't understand why you made this personal, like I said before pm me. That was extremely rude.
Not fighting words, just a list of facts. Your theory of teams voting for weaker opponents - at least in my case - is just that: a theory.
I don't want this to escalate into an argument, so I'll stop here.
PM me once again. THANKS. Also I never said you were one of them so don't know why you are getting hurt.
(AB got my pm on his theory so if anyone wants to know what I said ask him as I've matured a bit and don't see a reason to take two steps back.)
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OKAY KNOCK IT OFF....RETURN THIS CONVERSATION TO THE MATCHUP NOW
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Well that kicked up a notch.
So who does everybody like in the imaginary basketball series? I think I'm going for the Cleveland Cavaliers.
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Hey, everybody. Sorry for being off the grid for awhile -- school has been absolute hell.
Good thing I made it just in time for the fight. (I kid, I kid.)
Let's see...who is Kevin Stallings?
Is IP voting for Atlanta? (IIRC, he had the Pierce-Wade combo last year.)
Can Ty Lawson be THAT guy for the Cavs?
Can Linsanity rise again?
All interesting questions...but I gotta go with Cleveland. KG and Horford in the front court is ridiculous.
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KG and Horford in the front court is ridiculous.
And something that has very seldom been brought up is Carl Landry is the first big off the bench. If he gives this Cleveland team what he gave GSW last year in real life(11 PPG, 6 RPG, 60% TS% and good defense) that is a fantastic front court no matter what two guys are out there.
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KG and Horford in the front court is ridiculous.
And something that has very seldom been brought up is Carl Landry is the first big off the bench. If he gives this Cleveland team what he gave GSW last year in real life(11 PPG, 6 RPG, 60% TS% and good defense) that is a fantastic front court no matter what two guys are out there.
Yeah. Landry as the 3rd big, with Gerald Wallace getting the remaining minutes, I assume, makes for a really nice four-man frontcourt rotation. I like it more than what Atlanta can offer up.
OTOH, I love the Wade-Pierce combo.
But, I have a lot more faith in Lawson/Allen and the rest of the Cavs' guards than I do in the Hawks'.
I might be leaning to the Cavs here. I'll still think more about it.
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Is IP voting for Atlanta? (IIRC, he had the Pierce-Wade combo last year.)
He had a lot more than Pierce/Wade. Jrue Holiday, Jackie Butler, Chandler Parsons, Tiago Splitter, Jarret Jack, Nikola Vucevic, Thad Young..hell did I have a player taken outside of the 5th?
Answer, yes. Alexey Shved, Jeremy Lamb. Although Im not sure.
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Chris Bosh?!
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Is IP voting for Atlanta? (IIRC, he had the Pierce-Wade combo last year.)
He had a lot more than Pierce/Wade. Jrue Holiday, Jackie Butler, Chandler Parsons, Tiago Splitter, Jarret Jack, Nikola Vucevic, Thad Young..hell did I have a player taken outside of the 5th?
Answer, yes. Alexey Shved, Jeremy Lamb. Although Im not sure.
woah....
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Is IP voting for Atlanta? (IIRC, he had the Pierce-Wade combo last year.)
He had a lot more than Pierce/Wade. Jrue Holiday, Jackie Butler, Chandler Parsons, Tiago Splitter, Jarret Jack, Nikola Vucevic, Thad Young..hell did I have a player taken outside of the 5th?
Answer, yes. Alexey Shved, Jeremy Lamb. Although Im not sure.
woah....
What IP doesn't tell you is that he didn't have any confidence on those players. Butler, Parsons, Splitter, Vucevic, etc. were all either back-of-the-rotation players, or sitting on the bench. He was playing Brendan Haywood over them.
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Is IP voting for Atlanta? (IIRC, he had the Pierce-Wade combo last year.)
He had a lot more than Pierce/Wade. Jrue Holiday, Jackie Butler, Chandler Parsons, Tiago Splitter, Jarret Jack, Nikola Vucevic, Thad Young..hell did I have a player taken outside of the 5th?
Answer, yes. Alexey Shved, Jeremy Lamb. Although Im not sure.
woah....
What IP doesn't tell you is that he didn't have any confidence on those players. Butler, Parsons, Splitter, Vucevic, etc. were all either back-of-the-rotation players, or sitting on the bench. He was playing Brendan Haywood over them.
oh haha well with Haywood that team becomes less formidable
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Is IP voting for Atlanta? (IIRC, he had the Pierce-Wade combo last year.)
He had a lot more than Pierce/Wade. Jrue Holiday, Jackie Butler, Chandler Parsons, Tiago Splitter, Jarret Jack, Nikola Vucevic, Thad Young..hell did I have a player taken outside of the 5th?
Answer, yes. Alexey Shved, Jeremy Lamb. Although Im not sure.
woah....
What IP doesn't tell you is that he didn't have any confidence on those players. Butler, Parsons, Splitter, Vucevic, etc. were all either back-of-the-rotation players, or sitting on the bench. He was playing Brendan Haywood over them.
oh haha well with Haywood that team becomes less formidable
I've got to tip my hat to IP, though. His deep bench blossomed. To some extent, I think that led him to reach on some guys this year, because he thought he had the magic touch.
I was happy with our drafting, too, though. Mike Dunleavy, Aaron Brooks, Linas Kleiza, Tyler Zeller, Joel Anthony and Keyon Dooling all after the 9th round (and Robin Lopez and Thabo Sefolosha in the 7th). Not quite the upside that IP had, but all rotation players.
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Is IP voting for Atlanta? (IIRC, he had the Pierce-Wade combo last year.)
He had a lot more than Pierce/Wade. Jrue Holiday, Jackie Butler, Chandler Parsons, Tiago Splitter, Jarret Jack, Nikola Vucevic, Thad Young..hell did I have a player taken outside of the 5th?
Answer, yes. Alexey Shved, Jeremy Lamb. Although Im not sure.
woah....
What IP doesn't tell you is that he didn't have any confidence on those players. Butler, Parsons, Splitter, Vucevic, etc. were all either back-of-the-rotation players, or sitting on the bench. He was playing Brendan Haywood over them.
oh haha well with Haywood that team becomes less formidable
I've got to tip my hat to IP, though. His deep bench blossomed. To some extent, I think that led him to reach on some guys this year, because he thought he had the magic touch.
I was happy with our drafting, too, though. Mike Dunleavy, Aaron Brooks, Linas Kleiza, Tyler Zeller, Joel Anthony and Keyon Dooling all after the 9th round (and Robin Lopez and Thabo Sefolosha in the 7th). Not quite the upside that IP had, but all rotation players.
Also Roy lied to you. Well maybe not lied, but mischaracterized. Stop trying to impress the young kids, Hobbs! I had confidence in Jack, Splitter, Parsons, and I kept telling people Butler would blossom this year.
The problem is that SOME guys will hammer you so often on things like experience just so they can make a point even they don't believe to get the win that you get reduced to playing safer looking choices.
Also I lied to all of you during this draft. I would've played Fournier, Beverley, and Terrance Jones all decent minutes this season, BECAUSE THEY'RE GOOD PLAYERS.
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Bummer. Well, the lesson I learned here is that when I have no time to actually argue for my team, I excel. When I show up? Not as good. Great work, AB. For what it's worth I like your guys better than the T-Wolves in the Finals (so far). And thanks, KG's Knee, for the support, which is especially helpful given how busy my week has been. Cheers, guys.