CelticsStrong
Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: samjones on July 22, 2013, 10:50:26 PM
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Lakers roster has so many holes, they need to make a one for many deal, while the Celtics need a many for one deal.
So putting aside the Celtics/Lakers rivalry in my fantasy, assume it is now past Sept. 12 when most of the Nets players can be traded.
How about a Pau/Blake trade for Humphries, Wallace, Crawford, and Melo (or Iverson, regretfully), and whatever other filler (Brooks?) is needed to tempt the Lakers?
With Faverani's outside shooting, the Celts can properly space the floor with Gasol, Faverani, and Green starting, and a 2nd unit with Sullinger and Olynyx joined by either Bass (to play big small forwards) or Bogans (to play quick small forwards). Bass showed some ability to guard Melo in 2013 playoffs and James in 2012 playoffs. Gasol and Olynyx can work the inside post, and Sullinger and Faverani can do some damage there as well. All but Gasol have some outside shooting range.
Except for Wallace, all guaranteed money expiring after 2013, so not much impact for either side, and Lakers better positioned to absorb Wallace's long term salary.
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ill let you know right now, we have a lot more holes than the lakers do, unless you think olynyk will bring us a championship
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I like the potential of Sullinger and Olynyx. Pau may be on his last legs as a key player (couple of years probably, three at most), but his presence gives time for the Celts to draft and acclimate the 2014/2015 draft classes. Faverani is just a blind guess at this point.
I think those 6 players give the Celts a solid competitve pair of front lines for a couple of years, and Rondo/whomever is sufficient at point guard come playoff time. The key would be the starting shooting guard position ... Bradley's development, or the 2014 draft picks. Definitely need a scorer there. Pau adds a proven post-up scorer, which is not Asik's forte.
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I'd love to have Gasol but I doubt the Lakers deal him.
Especially now that Howard high-tailed it.
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I'd be up for this trade, hapilly.
No way I'd want Bass at SF though. He has horrendous ball handling and passing skills, and no range past about 15 feet.
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Despite being younger, is Gasol in the same position career-wise as Garnett? Fading short-timer who would better serve the Lakers by bringing in younger assets? Does Gasol have the same passion for training that kept Garnett going past the 34-35 age? Can Gasol carry a team now, or can he only play 20-25 minutes a night? Who is going to back up Gasol and Kaman on the Lakers? Who replaces Metta World Peace at small forward?
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Bass only needed to play the small forward spot on defense. Olynyx would be the small forward on offense. A poor man's version of the Bird/Maxwell pairing, where Maxwell defended the Bernard King types.
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Lakers will not take on any long term salary.
And I don't see the point of this trade for Boston either.
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1. With Melo in the trade, the Celtics reduce their salary level by 2.3 million that should bring them below the 71.5 million tax line.
2. It reduces the overload of extra bodies at the center/pf position, while leaving the remaining players with well-defined roles.
3. It gives the Celtics 4 players who can create their own shot - Rondo, Green, Gasol, Olynyx, with Brooks a possibility as well.
4. It creates two versatile front lines that can spread the floor, while working the ball inside-out because it has multiple post-up threats.
5. It doesn't cost any players part of the Celtics' long-term plans, while adding a needed 4th scorer, a proven veteran presence, and a proven post-up scorer.
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While Pau would have been a nice fit with this team last year I don't see it coming. He salary is pretty high and he is on the decline. The Lakers NEED him now with dwight moving on. Also KO is going to have a better (fingers crossed) all around offensive game than Pau soon enough.
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1. With Melo in the trade, the Celtics reduce their salary level by 2.3 million that should bring them below the 71.5 million tax line.
2. It reduces the overload of extra bodies at the center/pf position, while leaving the remaining players with well-defined roles.
3. It gives the Celtics 4 players who can create their own shot - Rondo, Green, Gasol, Olynyx, with Brooks a possibility as well.
4. It creates two versatile front lines that can spread the floor, while working the ball inside-out because it has multiple post-up threats.
5. It doesn't cost any players part of the Celtics' long-term plans, while adding a needed 4th scorer, a proven veteran presence, and a proven post-up scorer.
And yet the trade doesn't get Boston to any where near a contender, which does nothing except make the draft position next year worse. If Pau was younger, then sure it would make sense, but bringing him in for a year (which is all he would be here) is just silly. It is not a rebuilding trade and it doesn't make Boston a contender. Those trades should not be made, even if Boston gets rid of Wallace.
And as I said, LA will not take on crappy salary past this year under any circumstance so it will never happen.
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The whole point of this trade is we are giving up several players that are overpaid and we don't need for 1 player (Gasol) who is over paid and we don't need. I am ignoring Blake as I don't see the need for him in the trade.
Right now the Lakers don't have 13 players for their roster and we have too many. There doesn't need to be any basketball reason to do this trade.
I actually don't think the Lakers would want Wallace but maybe Humphries, Bass, and Melo for Gasol. I like to keep trades simplier.
Our starters are then:
Rondo
Lee (or Bradley)
Green
Wallace
Gasol
You want to start Wallace to showcase him for a future trade. Let him pad his numbers and see if mid season some team has a need.
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1. With Melo in the trade, the Celtics reduce their salary level by 2.3 million that should bring them below the 71.5 million tax line.
2. It reduces the overload of extra bodies at the center/pf position, while leaving the remaining players with well-defined roles.
3. It gives the Celtics 4 players who can create their own shot - Rondo, Green, Gasol, Olynyx, with Brooks a possibility as well.
4. It creates two versatile front lines that can spread the floor, while working the ball inside-out because it has multiple post-up threats.
5. It doesn't cost any players part of the Celtics' long-term plans, while adding a needed 4th scorer, a proven veteran presence, and a proven post-up scorer.
And yet the trade doesn't get Boston to any where near a contender, which does nothing except make the draft position next year worse. If Pau was younger, then sure it would make sense, but bringing him in for a year (which is all he would be here) is just silly. It is not a rebuilding trade and it doesn't make Boston a contender. Those trades should not be made, even if Boston gets rid of Wallace.
And as I said, LA will not take on crappy salary past this year under any circumstance so it will never happen.
While you are correct that LA will not take on bad long-term salary, I disagree on the utility of acquiring Pau.
Pau is 33 - if KG and Duncan are representative of the rest of his career arc, he could have 4+ good seasons in him.
You add Pau to Rondo, Green, Bradley and you are closer to being a contender with a decent sized window to add another big piece.
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1. With Melo in the trade, the Celtics reduce their salary level by 2.3 million that should bring them below the 71.5 million tax line.
2. It reduces the overload of extra bodies at the center/pf position, while leaving the remaining players with well-defined roles.
3. It gives the Celtics 4 players who can create their own shot - Rondo, Green, Gasol, Olynyx, with Brooks a possibility as well.
4. It creates two versatile front lines that can spread the floor, while working the ball inside-out because it has multiple post-up threats.
5. It doesn't cost any players part of the Celtics' long-term plans, while adding a needed 4th scorer, a proven veteran presence, and a proven post-up scorer.
And yet the trade doesn't get Boston to any where near a contender, which does nothing except make the draft position next year worse. If Pau was younger, then sure it would make sense, but bringing him in for a year (which is all he would be here) is just silly. It is not a rebuilding trade and it doesn't make Boston a contender. Those trades should not be made, even if Boston gets rid of Wallace.
And as I said, LA will not take on crappy salary past this year under any circumstance so it will never happen.
While you are correct that LA will not take on bad long-term salary, I disagree on the utility of acquiring Pau.
Pau is 33 - if KG and Duncan are representative of the rest of his career arc, he could have 4+ good seasons in him.
You add Pau to Rondo, Green, Bradley and you are closer to being a contender with a decent sized window to add another big piece.
I don't see that team is being close to a title especially with Pau's age and injury history. Pau has never been durable. He has played 12 seasons, 4 of the 12 he has been under 80% of the games and another he was just above it. And he is coming off his least healthy season in his entire career. We aren't talking about a guy like Shaq, Duncan, KG that when he plays can be a difference maker. Pau was a very good player but was never elite and he has gotten progressively worse the last few seasons before missing nearly half the season last year.
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1. With Melo in the trade, the Celtics reduce their salary level by 2.3 million that should bring them below the 71.5 million tax line.
2. It reduces the overload of extra bodies at the center/pf position, while leaving the remaining players with well-defined roles.
3. It gives the Celtics 4 players who can create their own shot - Rondo, Green, Gasol, Olynyx, with Brooks a possibility as well.
4. It creates two versatile front lines that can spread the floor, while working the ball inside-out because it has multiple post-up threats.
5. It doesn't cost any players part of the Celtics' long-term plans, while adding a needed 4th scorer, a proven veteran presence, and a proven post-up scorer.
And yet the trade doesn't get Boston to any where near a contender, which does nothing except make the draft position next year worse. If Pau was younger, then sure it would make sense, but bringing him in for a year (which is all he would be here) is just silly. It is not a rebuilding trade and it doesn't make Boston a contender. Those trades should not be made, even if Boston gets rid of Wallace.
And as I said, LA will not take on crappy salary past this year under any circumstance so it will never happen.
While you are correct that LA will not take on bad long-term salary, I disagree on the utility of acquiring Pau.
Pau is 33 - if KG and Duncan are representative of the rest of his career arc, he could have 4+ good seasons in him.
You add Pau to Rondo, Green, Bradley and you are closer to being a contender with a decent sized window to add another big piece.
I don't see that team is being close to a title especially with Pau's age and injury history. Pau has never been durable. He has played 12 seasons, 4 of the 12 he has been under 80% of the games and another he was just above it. And he is coming off his least healthy season in his entire career. We aren't talking about a guy like Shaq, Duncan, KG that when he plays can be a difference maker. Pau was a very good player but was never elite and he has gotten progressively worse the last few seasons before missing nearly half the season last year.
Pau's health has been pretty solid - certainly better than KG's at the same age. His health issues are relatively minor.
And I think you're underselling his impact. He's one of the game's best low-post scorers, a great passer and facilitator, a good rebounder and a decent enough defender (when playing at the 5). He was a cornerstone piece to a team that made the Finals 3 straight years, going toe-to-toe with Duncan, Dirk, Howard and KG and winning his fair share of those match-ups.
His decline has been greatly exaggerated because he's been playing out of position for the last three years to accommodate paint behemoths Bynum and Howard. Check out his positional production at 82games.com. Night and day between the 4 and the 5, especially defensively.
A Rondo/Bradley/Green/Sully/Pau quintet compares pretty neatly to the Grizzlies squad that made the WCF, only with more salary flexibility and less luxury tax aversion to add the next couple pieces to take it into true contender territory.
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1. With Melo in the trade, the Celtics reduce their salary level by 2.3 million that should bring them below the 71.5 million tax line.
2. It reduces the overload of extra bodies at the center/pf position, while leaving the remaining players with well-defined roles.
3. It gives the Celtics 4 players who can create their own shot - Rondo, Green, Gasol, Olynyx, with Brooks a possibility as well.
4. It creates two versatile front lines that can spread the floor, while working the ball inside-out because it has multiple post-up threats.
5. It doesn't cost any players part of the Celtics' long-term plans, while adding a needed 4th scorer, a proven veteran presence, and a proven post-up scorer.
And yet the trade doesn't get Boston to any where near a contender, which does nothing except make the draft position next year worse. If Pau was younger, then sure it would make sense, but bringing him in for a year (which is all he would be here) is just silly. It is not a rebuilding trade and it doesn't make Boston a contender. Those trades should not be made, even if Boston gets rid of Wallace.
And as I said, LA will not take on crappy salary past this year under any circumstance so it will never happen.
While you are correct that LA will not take on bad long-term salary, I disagree on the utility of acquiring Pau.
Pau is 33 - if KG and Duncan are representative of the rest of his career arc, he could have 4+ good seasons in him.
You add Pau to Rondo, Green, Bradley and you are closer to being a contender with a decent sized window to add another big piece.
I don't see that team is being close to a title especially with Pau's age and injury history. Pau has never been durable. He has played 12 seasons, 4 of the 12 he has been under 80% of the games and another he was just above it. And he is coming off his least healthy season in his entire career. We aren't talking about a guy like Shaq, Duncan, KG that when he plays can be a difference maker. Pau was a very good player but was never elite and he has gotten progressively worse the last few seasons before missing nearly half the season last year.
Pau's health has been pretty solid - certainly better than KG's at the same age. His health issues are relatively minor.
And I think you're underselling his impact. He's one of the game's best low-post scorers, a great passer and facilitator, a good rebounder and a decent enough defender (when playing at the 5). He was a cornerstone piece to a team that made the Finals 3 straight years, going toe-to-toe with Duncan, Dirk, Howard and KG and winning his fair share of those match-ups.
His decline has been greatly exaggerated because he's been playing out of position for the last three years to accommodate paint behemoths Bynum and Howard. Check out his positional production at 82games.com. Night and day between the 4 and the 5, especially defensively.
A Rondo/Bradley/Green/Sully/Pau quintet compares pretty neatly to the Grizzlies squad that made the WCF, only with more salary flexibility and less luxury tax aversion to add the next couple pieces to take it into true contender territory.
That team isn't anywhere near the Grizzlies. Not even close. Randolph and the younger Gasol are just so much better on both ends of the floor then anything Boston would have you can't compare the teams.
And KG in his first 12 seasons never played less than 76 games (except for the 47 in 50 game season of 99). The last few years he has been a lot less durable, which tends to make sense since he is older. Pau is always hurt and always misses a ton of games. That isn't going to improve with age. And Pau may be slightly better at center but you can't use his splits because when he plays center he does so against second stringers. 2 years ago he was primarily a PF and had pretty similar numbers to 3 years ago when he played a lot more at C. He is declining because he is old and injured. He may be less injured but he isn't going to be less old.
Pau doesn't make sense for this team at all. He doesn't get Boston anywhere near a title contending team next year and he is too old to be a component/asset/whatever going forward. I just don't see wrecking the draft position this year for a guy like Pau even if you do get out from under Wallace (who the Lakers would never take anyway so the it isn't worth discussing).
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Pau doesn't make sense for this team at all. He doesn't get Boston anywhere near a title contending team next year and he is too old to be a component/asset/whatever going forward. I just don't see wrecking the draft position this year for a guy like Pau even if you do get out from under Wallace (who the Lakers would never take anyway so the it isn't worth discussing).
This trade would never be about Pau making us a title contender. It is about swapping parts so that both rosters make a little more sense. I actually don't think the Celtics are going to tank but think about playing well in a different perspective.
If they can start the season with Wallace (I have a different Pau trade where we send Hump., Bass and Melo) and Pau starting and actually play well (as individuals and as a team). What would happen is that you increase their trade value, in essense increase the equity we have in our "assest".
Then you trade Wallace for some value (and maybe Pau too but he would be harder) and then start to tank. You might end up getting the best of both worlds. You get some value for Wallace and you get a high draft pick.
I actually like the Pau trade and have suggested it in other threads.
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Pau doesn't make sense for this team at all. He doesn't get Boston anywhere near a title contending team next year and he is too old to be a component/asset/whatever going forward. I just don't see wrecking the draft position this year for a guy like Pau even if you do get out from under Wallace (who the Lakers would never take anyway so the it isn't worth discussing).
This trade would never be about Pau making us a title contender. It is about swapping parts so that both rosters make a little more sense. I actually don't think the Celtics are going to tank but think about playing well in a different perspective.
If they can start the season with Wallace (I have a different Pau trade where we send Hump., Bass and Melo) and Pau starting and actually play well (as individuals and as a team). What would happen is that you increase their trade value, in essense increase the equity we have in our "assest".
Then you trade Wallace for some value (and maybe Pau too but he would be harder) and then start to tank. You might end up getting the best of both worlds. You get some value for Wallace and you get a high draft pick.
I actually like the Pau trade and have suggested it in other threads.
I think if we did something like Humphries, Crawford, and Melo the Lakers might have an interest as it would save them money this year and they would get 2 young players to take a look at. Boston can't do that trade without unloading another contract elsewhere though as that would put them above the apron.
And again I'm not saying I would do it if I was Boston, but I would at least consider it.
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1. With Melo in the trade, the Celtics reduce their salary level by 2.3 million that should bring them below the 71.5 million tax line.
2. It reduces the overload of extra bodies at the center/pf position, while leaving the remaining players with well-defined roles.
3. It gives the Celtics 4 players who can create their own shot - Rondo, Green, Gasol, Olynyx, with Brooks a possibility as well.
4. It creates two versatile front lines that can spread the floor, while working the ball inside-out because it has multiple post-up threats.
5. It doesn't cost any players part of the Celtics' long-term plans, while adding a needed 4th scorer, a proven veteran presence, and a proven post-up scorer.
And yet the trade doesn't get Boston to any where near a contender, which does nothing except make the draft position next year worse. If Pau was younger, then sure it would make sense, but bringing him in for a year (which is all he would be here) is just silly. It is not a rebuilding trade and it doesn't make Boston a contender. Those trades should not be made, even if Boston gets rid of Wallace.
And as I said, LA will not take on crappy salary past this year under any circumstance so it will never happen.
I definitely agree the Lakers wouldn't do this deal for the reason you mentioned.
However, for the Celtics, I disagree about this not making them a contender.
I've always been a big Gasol fan as he's a very productive post-up player.
I think a Rondo/Bradley/Green/Sully/Gasol team could and would be very competitive and
even better than what the Celtics were, last year.
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1. With Melo in the trade, the Celtics reduce their salary level by 2.3 million that should bring them below the 71.5 million tax line.
2. It reduces the overload of extra bodies at the center/pf position, while leaving the remaining players with well-defined roles.
3. It gives the Celtics 4 players who can create their own shot - Rondo, Green, Gasol, Olynyx, with Brooks a possibility as well.
4. It creates two versatile front lines that can spread the floor, while working the ball inside-out because it has multiple post-up threats.
5. It doesn't cost any players part of the Celtics' long-term plans, while adding a needed 4th scorer, a proven veteran presence, and a proven post-up scorer.
And yet the trade doesn't get Boston to any where near a contender, which does nothing except make the draft position next year worse. If Pau was younger, then sure it would make sense, but bringing him in for a year (which is all he would be here) is just silly. It is not a rebuilding trade and it doesn't make Boston a contender. Those trades should not be made, even if Boston gets rid of Wallace.
And as I said, LA will not take on crappy salary past this year under any circumstance so it will never happen.
While you are correct that LA will not take on bad long-term salary, I disagree on the utility of acquiring Pau.
Pau is 33 - if KG and Duncan are representative of the rest of his career arc, he could have 4+ good seasons in him.
You add Pau to Rondo, Green, Bradley and you are closer to being a contender with a decent sized window to add another big piece.
I don't see that team is being close to a title especially with Pau's age and injury history. Pau has never been durable. He has played 12 seasons, 4 of the 12 he has been under 80% of the games and another he was just above it. And he is coming off his least healthy season in his entire career. We aren't talking about a guy like Shaq, Duncan, KG that when he plays can be a difference maker. Pau was a very good player but was never elite and he has gotten progressively worse the last few seasons before missing nearly half the season last year.
Pau's health has been pretty solid - certainly better than KG's at the same age. His health issues are relatively minor.
And I think you're underselling his impact. He's one of the game's best low-post scorers, a great passer and facilitator, a good rebounder and a decent enough defender (when playing at the 5). He was a cornerstone piece to a team that made the Finals 3 straight years, going toe-to-toe with Duncan, Dirk, Howard and KG and winning his fair share of those match-ups.
His decline has been greatly exaggerated because he's been playing out of position for the last three years to accommodate paint behemoths Bynum and Howard. Check out his positional production at 82games.com. Night and day between the 4 and the 5, especially defensively.
A Rondo/Bradley/Green/Sully/Pau quintet compares pretty neatly to the Grizzlies squad that made the WCF, only with more salary flexibility and less luxury tax aversion to add the next couple pieces to take it into true contender territory.
That team isn't anywhere near the Grizzlies. Not even close. Randolph and the younger Gasol are just so much better on both ends of the floor then anything Boston would have you can't compare the teams.
And KG in his first 12 seasons never played less than 76 games (except for the 47 in 50 game season of 99). The last few years he has been a lot less durable, which tends to make sense since he is older. Pau is always hurt and always misses a ton of games. That isn't going to improve with age. And Pau may be slightly better at center but you can't use his splits because when he plays center he does so against second stringers. 2 years ago he was primarily a PF and had pretty similar numbers to 3 years ago when he played a lot more at C. He is declining because he is old and injured. He may be less injured but he isn't going to be less old.
Pau doesn't make sense for this team at all. He doesn't get Boston anywhere near a title contending team next year and he is too old to be a component/asset/whatever going forward. I just don't see wrecking the draft position this year for a guy like Pau even if you do get out from under Wallace (who the Lakers would never take anyway so the it isn't worth discussing).
I think Pau is still better than his younger brother - trendy opinions notwithstanding. Z-Bo's better than Sully, but Rondo's better than Conley and Green is better than Prince (or at least the version of Prince that showed up for the Grizzly playoff run). And the model is the same - a very quick perimeter defense working in tandem with a slow but smart and sizable frontline; offensively, a diversified attack depending on guard penetration and high-low action between the bigs who can play inside and out.
And your definition of always injured is awfully broad. Pau played near complete seasons back-to-back before last year's tendinitis issues. Nor was he showing signs of major decline. Once he got healthy, he put up 15/10/5 to finish off the season, including a remarkable 17/12/6 in 8 April games to bring the Lakers roaring back into the playoffs.
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Pau's better years are behind him. I would rather tank and lose every game than have a goat faced Laker on this team.
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Pau's better years are behind him. I would rather tank and lose every game than have a goat faced Laker on this team.
He's a llama, not a goat.